irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050102

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050103

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050103

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irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050104

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050104

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irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050105

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050105

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irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050106

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050106

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irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050107

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050107

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00:56.31PrezKennedyso if its open... where is it?
irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050108

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01:21.45darthJanowish me luck
irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050110

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050110

00:38.23learnerhello EricWilhelm :)
00:38.43learnerso you saw the news
01:44.50*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp02462412pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
01:45.38polyspinIt went live!  We're up on Slashdot!
01:56.38*** join/#brlcad Dracarys (~Dracarys@Cheesemonkey.user)
01:56.56Dracarysanyone alive here?
02:03.54DracarysCan someone tell me how to get fbserv running? I don't have a /dev/sgip, and running without a device blanks X except for cursor (I can close the blanking thing tho, so it's not a problem)
02:05.10Dracarysops are poke-prone :)
02:10.22polyspinI'm here too
02:35.55*** join/#brlcad Dracarys (~Dracarys@Cheesemonkey.user)
02:36.02polyspinhello
02:36.18Dracaryshi!
02:36.20Dracarys=D
02:36.23Dracaryssomeone alive!
02:36.42Dracaryswould you mind helping me work out fbserv, polyspin?
02:36.52polyspinI can try.
02:37.05polyspinWhasup?
02:37.23DracarysI'm making my way through the first cup tutorial, and don't have the device it uses
02:37.42polyspinAh, this is an age old confusion
02:37.46Dracarysheh
02:38.01polyspinThe program does not actually open anything in "/dev" anymore
02:38.13Dracarys:/
02:38.21Dracarysok, so what am I supposed to run?
02:38.23polyspinIt looks for the string "/dev" to know if it is opening a "device to display on" or a "file to store into"
02:38.31Dracarysahh heh
02:38.42Dracarysso, how to I make it display in, say, vterm 8?
02:38.47polyspinIf you are on linux, with X, then you can specify "/dev/X"
02:39.16polyspinI typically use:  "fbserv 0 /dev/X" and it opens a window on my current X display
02:39.24Dracaryscool
02:39.26polyspinYou probably want to background it
02:39.30Dracarys?
02:39.32Dracaryswhich means?
02:39.33polyspin"fbserv 0 /dev/X &"
02:39.36Dracarysah, yes
02:39.38Dracarysthanks
02:39.56polyspinNow you can "pix-fb -F :0 filename.pix"
02:40.27Dracarysthat would display the last render as well as write it to filename.pix?
02:40.52polyspinNo, that paints "filename.pix" into the framebuffer display
02:40.56Dracarysah
02:41.13Dracarysthe tut says to use "rt -F:1 -s 512", but that doesn't work
02:41.24polyspinInstead of bringing up a new window for each image, it uses a single window, and shows whatever is "painting" there
02:41.38Dracaryshm
02:41.41polyspinThe tut is telling it to paint to "framebuffer :1"
02:41.57polyspinIf you ran the command I typed earlier, ...
02:42.12polyspinthen you would want to say:  "rt -F :0 -s 512"
02:42.19Dracaryshmm
02:42.22Dracarys/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: no objects specified -- raytrace aborted
02:42.24polyspindon't forget to list the database and the geometry...
02:42.35Dracarysand I replaced 0 with 1 earlier
02:42.45DracarysI'm running from inside mged
02:43.05polyspinSo that should be "rt -F :0 -s 512 my_geometry.g cube.r ball.r m1a2.g" (you get the idea?)
02:43.14Dracarysah
02:43.40polyspinWithin MGED I would suggest the raytrace control panel found on the "file" menu.  This will render into the geometry window ususally
02:43.51polyspinIf you want a separate image display from the geometry...
02:43.57Dracarysopendb mug.r;
02:43.57Dracarystree Mug.g;
02:43.57Dracarysrt:  rt_dirbuild(mug.r) failure
02:44.03Dracarysand I don't have a file menu :P
02:44.21polyspinWhich tutorial are you reading?
02:44.36polyspinIntro to mged?
02:44.39Dracarysya
02:44.50Dracarysok, file opened in the guish version
02:44.52polyspinLet me check it.  What page are you on?
02:45.26polyspinYes, I recommed the GUI version unless you are developing Tcl scripts.
02:45.35DracarysModeling With CSG
02:45.37Dracarysthat page
02:45.47Dracarysokhmm
02:45.48Dracarysmeh
02:45.51Dracarysthat html page
02:45.56Dracarysthe section is much lower down
02:46.26polyspinwhich "lesson" is it in?
02:47.02DracarysCreating Geometry: The Cup
02:47.32Dracarysbut I  don't really need to follow it exactly. How do I use the raytrace control panel?
02:48.06polyspinIn general, display the regions you want to raytrace in the wireframe view, and click the "raytrace" button.
02:48.18Dracarysthen what? where do I see it?
02:48.26Dracarysoh lol
02:48.32Dracaryswasn't expecting that
02:48.32polyspinIt should overlay the wireframe.
02:48.33Dracarys:)
02:48.38Dracarysya just noticed
02:49.00polyspinYou have choices in the raytrace controll panel to have the image overlay/underlay the wireframe.
02:49.09Dracarysya
02:49.14polyspinI think on the "Framebuffer" menu
02:49.26Dracarysya
02:49.41polyspinJust picked up the package?
02:49.44Dracarysyup
02:49.54polyspinWelcome.
02:49.57Dracaryssaw the open sourcing article on slashdot, got interested
02:49.59Dracarysthanks
02:50.01Dracarys:)
02:50.24polyspinI'm the lead on the project, so if I can answer any questions, just ask.
02:50.58Dracarysthanks!
02:51.03Dracarys=)
02:51.29polyspinHow'd you find the channel?
02:51.41Dracarysguessed at the name, and most oss projects are on freenode :)
02:51.54polyspinGlad to here it.
02:52.06polyspinI haven't gotten around to putting the channel on the web page.
02:52.24polyspinWe've only been on SF.net for about 2 weeks.
02:52.53Dracarysbtw, I'm probably jsut being stupid about it, but on brlcad.org the download area still seems to have the old (e.g. pay $500 or send in a signed license) method listed
02:53.21polyspinWHERE???!!!!!!
02:53.36Dracarysheh
02:54.04Dracarysah nvm it was brlcad.com
02:54.13Dracarystold you I was just being stupid about it :)
02:54.28polyspinThat's an old mirror from the "license agreement" days.
02:54.31Dracarysah
02:55.34polyspinmany things....
02:55.50Dracarysthat's my impression
02:56.15polyspinBRL-CAD is primarily a geometry engine upon which a number of "analysis codes" are built.
02:56.24Dracarysahh
02:57.16Dracarysor any aspects for that matter :)
02:57.48polyspinGood idea.  Walk before you run.
02:59.23Dracaryshmm, how do you set the parameters for an object in the gui? I went to Create>tor to do the cup rim, and all it asked for was a name
02:59.57polyspinIt'll ask you for the rest of the parameters after you give it a name.
03:00.01Dracarysdidn't
03:00.14Dracarysnow I have a big fat torus overlapping my cup :P
03:00.15polyspinOh, "create" or "in" ?
03:00.23Dracaryscreate, the menu
03:00.46Dracarysnot a command
03:00.49polyspin"Create" takes the parameters from the size and location of the geometry view.
03:00.54Dracarysah
03:01.04polyspinSo size your display and center it where you want the torus.
03:01.16Dracaryswhere would I go to specify numbers manually?
03:01.17polyspinIf you know the parameters, I would suggest the text "in" command
03:01.28Dracaryshm, there's no gui equivalent?
03:01.30polyspinIn the case of a torus...
03:02.03polyspin"in rim_of_cup tor  vx vy vz r1 r2"
03:02.14Dracaryshow does one delete an object?
03:02.29polyspin"kill objname"
03:02.47Dracarysthanks
03:03.04polyspinWe have thought about gui builders for primitives, but didn't like the idea of "popping" windows or panels.
03:03.25polyspinWhen you are building complex geometry, you can build a lot of primitives in a short time.
03:03.35polyspinThe visual popping got very annoying fast.
03:03.38Dracarysheh
03:04.14polyspinMost serious modelers build from the command line.  It gives them precise control over the numbers without mousing around all the time.
03:04.24Dracarysany plans towards increasing userfriendlyness? I'm happy with how it is, but I've heard plenty of complaints about it.
03:04.39DracarysI agree the CLI is almost always best once you know it well enough
03:04.54polyspinI've argued for a better UI for almost 7 years.
03:05.05Dracarys:/
03:05.26polyspinIt's one of the reasons I pushed open source.  The lab wasn't interested for THEIR user community.
03:05.54polyspinThere's a sub-project comming that revamps the whole MGED look and feel.
03:06.53Dracaryssounds good; what sort of speed is it moving along at? I know the answer is going ot be very qualitative.
03:07.00Dracaryss/ot/to/
03:08.03polyspinHmm.  that is wrapped up in ... politics.  It's being contributed by a contractor...
03:08.37polyspinThey've done some great work studying some commercial apps and designing the GUI accordingly
03:08.49polyspinIt's raw, but a good foundation.
03:08.53Dracaryssounds promising, if it continues along well
03:09.02polyspinOSS developers could easily flesh it out to be REALLY COOL.
03:10.22DracarysI suppose there's nothing along the lines of a estimate for when it might become useable?
03:11.10DracarysOT: glad it keeps data on disk instead of memory; just locked up :P
03:11.21polyspinNothing I could say.
03:11.28Dracarysthought so
03:11.34Dracarysthanks again for all the help
03:11.36Dracarys:)
03:11.50polyspinyou're welcome.
03:12.07polyspin8-)
03:12.29*** part/#brlcad Dracarys (~Dracarys@Cheesemonkey.user)
03:40.48*** join/#brlcad static (~static@COX-24-248-50-34.coxinet.net)
03:43.33staticwhen i run mged, i get this message: invalid command name "gui"      then mged exits. anyone know how to fix?
irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050111

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050111

00:00.48brlcadthey are past their tipping point is all, so it just doesn't matter
00:01.02starseekerright
00:01.51starseekerWell, gotta do three weeks worth of laundry :-(.  Thanks for all the assistance!
00:01.56brlcadbrl-cad can easily reach that point as well, but there is lots of work needed on the graphical side and user interface
00:02.20brlcadapart from the command interface, mged's gui is overly sub-optimal
00:02.35starseeker:-)
00:02.53starseekerThat has to be the best phrase ever for a UI critique
00:02.53brlcadwe have another product set to replace or complement it already but it'll need more testing
00:03.07starseekeryou mean mged?
00:03.16starseekerwow!
00:03.25brlcadi mean something to supplant mged down the road
00:03.45brlcadeffectively a rewrite by one of mged's primary original authors
00:04.21starseekerThat's really nice, having an original author around.  They know what not to do the second time around ;-)
00:04.40brlcadhe's got a fully functional beta already, and funds to keep improving it, so we're on a great track
00:04.47starseekerAwesome
00:04.53brlcadwe have lots of original authors around :)
00:05.38brlcadactually primary is probably more appropriate than original.. mike was the original author for a vast majority
00:05.55starseekerWow.  That's one heck of a programmer
00:06.00brlcadibot: seen polyspin
00:06.02ibotpolyspin <~polyspin@pcp02462412pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 17h 20m 24s ago, saying: 'very good times.'.
00:06.17brlcadmike was a vary amazing man
00:06.38brlcada true wizard ahead of his time in the most classic of senses
00:06.54*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~cc@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
00:07.16starseekerI'm glad his work has been released to the world - it's a great way to carry on the legacy
00:07.48brlcadI think Mike would have just loved to see what we've achieved
00:07.56starseekerWhen a program survives decades and waves of authors you know you have something special.
00:09.50brlcadwell, time to grab a bite to eat and get working on a binary distribution for mac os x, perhaps update 7.0.4 to fix the source tarball issues
00:10.20starseeker:-)
00:10.25brlcadtjyang: hi, you have a question before I take off to eat? :)
00:10.43brlcador maybe one of these other kind gents can help you :)
00:10.51starseekerlet me know when 7.0.4 is up, and I'll update the ebuild, run a final test, and announce on the gentoo-science list it's ready
00:11.23noybdid you see my new vgr line?
00:11.45noybhehe
00:11.54brlcadnoyb: not yet.. what'dya get? :)
00:12.43noybI posted it about 3+ hours ago...  lemme see if it's in my scroll back.  (how do I do that in irssi?)
00:12.51brlcadreally horrid that these releases are overlapping with bz's release .. :)
00:13.07brlcadnoyb: I'll have it in my buffer when I get home
00:14.21starseekerah, bzflag - one wonders how much open source code might have been had bzflag not been unleased ;-)
00:14.23brlcadhehe
00:15.05starseekerjust not subtlty ;-)
00:15.22brlcadwell, i'll be back soon..
00:15.26brlcadcya
00:15.29noybbye
00:15.31starseekerlater
00:15.55noybany irssi users here?
00:18.06EricWilhelmno, but I think there's a log file
00:18.47EricWilhelmanything in your ~/.irssi/ ?
00:39.57*** join/#brlcad jeoslislo (~digsRus@pcp09151712pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net)
00:42.09*** join/#brlcad dad (dad@dialup-4.176.42.27.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
01:13.40dadok, i'm stumped
01:14.42*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~cc@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
01:15.23jeoslisloAnyone get brlcad to make on OS X?
01:20.43noybEricWilhelm: I have a config in that dir
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01:52.38noybI think I managed to hang or crash brlcad.  It's to be expected for a person playing around with a giant powertool for the first time.
02:02.06tjyang-awayI am compiling brlcad on RHAS3.0.
02:03.00tjyang-awayanyone have a sucess to compile it on Mac OSX 10.3.7 ?
02:03.22*** join/#brlcad dad (dad@dialup-4.176.132.87.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
02:06.35noyb~seen learner
02:06.37ibotlearner is currently on #brlcad (1d 21h 44m 32s) #bzflag (1d 21h 44m 32s).  Has said a total of 609 messages.  Is idling for 7h 42m 56s
02:06.50noyb~seen brlcad
02:06.51ibotbrlcad is currently on #brlcad (2h 52m 39s) #bzflag (2h 52m 39s).  Has said a total of 49 messages.  Is idling for 1h 51m 25s
02:09.02noybsomehow, with a little guessing and very little rtfm, I managed to open the star.g db and draw some of it.  any brl-cad experts here?
02:11.30noybyes, I have it running on 10.3.7
02:16.00tjyang-awaywhat is your configure switches ? I include /usr/X11R5/include etc but still have compilation errors.
02:16.11tjyang-awayoops
02:16.17tjyang-awayX11R6
02:16.21dad:)
02:19.47tjyang-away./configure --prefix=/opt/ --x-includes=/usr/X11R6/include   --x-libraries=/usr/
02:19.47tjyang-awayX11R6/lib
02:20.00tjyang-awaywhat am I missing ?,noyb.
02:21.06tjyang-awayoh, I fogot to say the magic word.  Please.
02:22.26tjyang-awayfailed at "tk.h:100:29: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory"
02:22.51tjyang-awaylooks like the tk inlcude path need to corrected.
02:22.59tjyang-awaynoyb, are you still here ?
02:25.47learnertjyang-away, which os?
02:26.11learnertjyang-away, and which X11?
02:27.45tjyang-awaymac os 10.3.7, /usr/X11R6
02:28.00learneri mean is it apple's X11 or XFree's
02:28.16learneri.e. XDarwin
02:28.39tjyang-awayapple's X11.
02:29.01tjyang-awaybe back
02:29.41dadlearner: i can't seem to get anything but 'nu' display manager, and i'm stumped
02:29.43learnerk
02:29.50learneryou shouldn't need X11 options
02:30.03learnerthere is a problem with the source tarball for macs
02:30.34learneri'd suggest "make distclean" and then starting over fresh (./autogen.sh .. ./configure .. make
02:33.00dadmy system? Debian stable in i686 with a voodoo3 graphics adapter
02:33.18learnerheh, nice name
02:33.43learnerdad, no, those suggestions were from tjyang-away
02:34.22learnerbut thanks for the info .. yeash does debian not play well with the build
02:34.26dadlearner: i guessed as much
02:34.28learnerdad, how did you compile
02:35.16dadi got the sources from sourceforge (not he CVS) it had a ./configure there already
02:35.43dadcompiled, installed no problems, except it took a long time
02:35.59learnerthat's good
02:36.21learnertaking a long time is expected.. unless you have lots of cpus ;)
02:37.46learnerso then what happened?
02:37.58learneryou installed and tried to run mged?
02:39.28tjyanglearner, are you sure about no X11 option is needed ?, I started out with no X11 option.
02:40.10learneron OS X, yes -- should not be needed
02:40.16dadmged starts, but i can't get any display manager except nu
02:40.24learnerit's in a standard path
02:40.38tjyangleaner,ok I am going to try it again.
02:40.50learnerdad, can you send me your config.log?
02:40.58dadso, no i can
02:41.06dademail? or ???
02:41.13learnersure
02:41.31noybno I wasn't still there... kids, wife, dinner... forgot to mention my away-ness.
02:41.59noyblearner, you're back!
02:43.01learneri am, with 2 dozen things going on ;)
02:43.48tjyangthe build on RH AS3.0 was sucessful.
02:45.13learnerglad to hear it.. rh is more readily on hand
02:50.26dadlearner - it's on its way...
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00:06.53darthJanommm
00:06.57darthJanomiso from nobu
00:07.07darthJanowith toru tartar
00:09.32tofueep, return of the jano
00:22.17*** join/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
00:22.38janommm
00:22.41janoi wanna sushi now
00:22.53janodanget
00:23.05janoi wish that new commission would close soon, I wanna goto nobu!
00:24.26noyb~seen learner
00:24.28ibotlearner is currently on #brlcad (2d 20h 2m 23s) #bzflag (2d 20h 2m 23s).  Has said a total of 962 messages.  Is idling for 8h 59m 33s
00:26.07*** join/#brlcad Phantom (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.85.54.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
00:26.20jano~seen brlcad
00:26.21ibotbrlcad is currently on #brlcad (1d 1h 12m 9s) #bzflag (1d 1h 12m 9s).  Has said a total of 132 messages.  Is idling for 1h 19m 41s
00:26.29jano~seen your_mom
00:26.30iboti haven't seen 'your_mom', jano
00:26.38noybhehe
00:26.52jano~seen my_butt
00:26.52iboti haven't seen 'my_butt', jano
00:27.35jano~seen two_pelicans_dancing_under_the_moonlight_of_saturn
00:27.36ibotjano: i haven't seen 'two_pelicans_dancing_under_the_moonlight_of_saturn'
00:27.37noybum... easy.
00:27.45noybdown boy...
00:27.58janoit's called procrastination
00:28.05janoi have too much grunt work to do
00:28.08janoand I dun wanna!!
00:28.48noybyou can do it, there's nothing happening here.
00:29.23noybpull up yer sleeves and get to work...  ;)
00:29.47noybcad work, or *real* work?
00:29.58noyblike lifting stuff...
00:30.25PhantomHello.
00:31.17noybhi there.
00:32.54PhantomDo you know where I can downlaod the mac binary? I downlaoded it from the old website, but it asks for a password.
00:33.21PhantomI also tried downloading the source and compiling it, but I couldn't figure out how to.
00:43.46janocad work?  no, no no, real work, like convincing clients cash flow is more important than location
00:46.25brlcadhello Phantom
00:46.41brlcadPhantom: I'm working on putting that together now (mac binary)
00:46.52brlcadheh, I suppose the old passwords could be given out
00:47.00brlcadbut that's not my call to make tonight..
00:47.13brlcadPhantom: mac builds should be ready in a day or two on the website
00:47.28brlcad~fishslap jano
00:47.30ibotACTION slaps jano up side the head with a wet fish.
00:47.30PhantomExcellent.
00:53.33noybcat or trout?  I think it makes a difference.
00:58.14brlcad~whaleslap noyb
00:58.17ibotACTION slaps noyb upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh
00:59.38noybtee hee
01:00.25noybnow _that_ would hurt.  not a body-blow, but a *head slap* with a whale!  buh, bye noyb...
01:00.54noybhe did
01:04.41noybIf, I'm getting fishslapped for the real work comment: appologies.  I meant, "physical" not "virtual" or "mental" work
01:05.57brlcad:)
01:06.01brlcadvirtual pain?
01:07.41*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
01:12.36janohere;s a llama there's a lllama and another little llama funny llama fuzzy llama llama llama llama duck
01:12.45*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~cc@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
01:12.53noybhey, I showed a little moss.g raytrace demo to a couple co-workers.  they were impressed.
01:13.11noybum, that's squarely on the topic.                              NOT!
01:14.07tjyangbrlcad, you here ?
01:16.28janoi lived in a treehouse, and was three years dead, listen little child to the safety rail
01:16.33brlcadyes
01:16.45brlcadnoyb: heh, moss.g is a classic :)
01:17.39tjyangcan I bother you with make benchmakr error message  on another channel ?
01:18.09brlcadhow about pasting it to pastebin.ca?
01:18.42starseekerHeh - recommended.  I would have been whale slapped when I goofed in a posting, had that been an option
01:19.01tjyangwhat is the command to do that ? /join pastebin.ca ?
01:19.12brlcadhttp://pastebin.ca/ ? :)
01:20.01starseekerOH!  Now I remember - I actually had a substantive question
01:20.34tjyangbrlcad, are you seriouse about http://pastebin.ca ? I can't get to it.
01:20.56brlcadtjyang: yes i was/am
01:21.06starseekerWhen the brl-cad tarball is expanded it expands into a directory named brlcad-7.0, rather than brlcad-7.0.2
01:21.23starseekerIs this going to be standard policy in the future?
01:21.37brlcadnoyb: it's also often nice to remember that it's by most accounts probably the second or third ray-tracer ever written
01:21.53brlcadcomputer ray-tracer that is, of course
01:22.02starseekerThe ebuild, it turns out, does care.  I've been advised to make the extraction of the directory name automated, but it's not worth it unless it's going to be a standard in the future
01:22.20brlcadstarseeker: hrmm
01:22.30brlcadit was intentional at the time
01:22.34brlcadto be just 7.0
01:22.39starseekerOK.  I figured.
01:23.38brlcadtjyang: I can't dcc
01:23.45brlcadtjyang: try sending me in a pm
01:24.28brlcadyou really can't get to http://pastebin.ca/ ??
01:24.54tjyangnope
01:25.00brlcadwierd
01:25.11brlcadhow about http://paste.uni.cc/
01:26.50brlcadtjyang, ahh, that's a problem in the 7.0.2 source tarball
01:27.22brlcadtjyang: it's save to ignore that for a distribution.. if you want to "fix" or patch it .. rm db/*.g
01:27.49tjyangyou mean using web browser,right ?
01:28.24brlcadweb browser? yes.. the urls were for a web browser, but doesn't matter any more since you sent it to me via PM
01:28.24tjyanghere is a bigger problem.
01:30.18brlcadinteresting:  into.c:123: error: `sys_errlist' undeclared (first use in this function)
01:37.43tjyangin into.c,there is  line #include <errno.h> saying sys_errlist should be in errno.h.
01:39.52brlcadhrm.. could be in stdio.h too
01:40.17brlcadbut that's also included
01:40.42tjyangrm db/*.g works. thanks.
01:40.44brlcadif you grep /usr/include/sys_errlist * 2>/dev/null
01:40.54brlcadwhat do you get?
01:41.55tjyangsorry I am off with my build machines to chat with you. to find out I need to be off and be back later.
01:42.15brlcadack
01:42.19brlcadthe grep is
01:42.29brlcadgrep sys_errlist /usr/include/* 2>/dev/null
01:42.41brlcadbrain skipped a beat
01:51.02*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~cc@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
01:51.12tjyangi am back
01:51.23brlcadthat was quick
01:51.38tjyang<PROTECTED>
01:51.52tjyang/usr/include/errno.h: * The symbols _sys_errlist and _sys_nerr are not visible in the
01:52.07tjyangthere is the detail
01:52.12tjyang#if defined(_LP64)
01:52.13tjyang<PROTECTED>
01:52.13tjyang<PROTECTED>
01:52.13tjyang<PROTECTED>
01:52.13tjyang#endif /* _LP64 */
01:52.19tjyang#if (defined(_REENTRANT) || defined(_TS_ERRNO) || \
01:52.36tjyangthis is on a solaris 8.
01:52.51tjyangwhat is your output ?
01:53.38tjyangwas brlcad compiled ok on solaris 8 before ?
01:53.58tjyangwhat solaris patch I am missing ?
01:54.48brlcadyes, it's compiled on solaris lots of times
01:54.51tjyangI don't deep down to sys_errlist type of C system function call.
01:55.02brlcadusually using sun's compiler and libraries
01:55.03tjyangI don't -> I don't know
01:55.20tjyangI was using gcc.
01:55.42brlcadlooks like there are other headers
01:55.50brlcaddid you try the same grep with grep -r ?
01:56.00brlcadshould be more than 1
01:56.37tjyanglet me know what output should looks like.
01:57.42tjyangcan you make sure brlcad can be compiled using gcc  on solaris and hpux ?
01:58.46brlcadahh, looks like the gcc folks removed sys_errlist
01:58.55brlcadfor syserror()
01:59.01brlcadbastages
01:59.39tjyangcan you modify into.c to work with gcc ?
01:59.53brlcadyes, working on that now
02:00.02tjyanguse  strerror
02:00.36tjyangwhatever ;)
02:00.46tjyangI am weak on C system programming ;)
02:01.10tjyangjust give me a code can be compiled.
02:01.37tjyangand I give you packages ;)
02:01.43brlcadwhen I post 7.0.4, it'll have the fixes in it
02:01.56brlcadprobably sometime tomorrow or Wednesday it can be posted
02:02.02brlcadthis build is going to take a while
02:02.27tjyangyou don't have 8cpu sun boxes !?
02:02.49tjyangjust kidding.
02:03.32tjyangmay I be dismissed ?
02:03.49brlcadhave huge sun and little sun
02:04.01brlcadhave immediate access to little sun.. so it'll take a while :)
02:05.07tjyangI will skip into.c error to work on others task, like have rpm be generated etc.
02:05.14tjyangoh,
02:05.39tjyangwhere can I upload the binary for you to test.
02:06.21tjyangthe brlcad rpm package ?
02:06.23brlcadeither up to the sourceforge tracker, to a url, or e-mail it to me
02:06.58brlcadtracker probably can't handle a binary that size..
02:07.02brlcadhere's a better idea...
02:07.04tjyangI will include package source to force you learn TWW.
02:08.08tjyangby reading the package sources.
02:08.42tjyangis there a ftp server I can upload to ?
02:09.22*** join/#brlcad JohnP (~johnp@Dardeene-68.188.36.231.charter-stl.com)
02:10.02starseekerTime to temp fate and say I think I'm making progress on the ebuild
02:10.41JohnPGood luck!
02:11.15tjyangebuild is another good PMS(package management system), too bad my brain is not bigh enough to learn one more pms.
02:11.54brlcad~nslookup ftp.brlcad.org
02:12.12brlcadtjyang: you can upload to there
02:12.20brlcadanonymous
02:12.32tjyanggreat, i am trying now.
02:12.37brlcadincoming folder
02:15.36tjyangI am leaving to finish rpm pacakge,ok ?
02:15.44brlcadok
02:15.46tjyanglater.
02:42.45noybis there a mode where one could move the model, and it ray traces when finished moving it?
02:44.40brlcadyes, there's a variety of ways to do that
02:44.51brlcadsounds like you're interested in the animation tools
02:45.45brlcadwhich are effectively scripted movements/changes to the database, perhaps even articulations of geometry if you create joints
02:45.55brlcadthen render each frame as desired
02:46.21brlcadseveral movies exist, trying to locate some releaseable ones
02:46.59noybI wish I could share screens with you sometime.  vnc or something.  when I use that object tree thing, and select primatives...
02:47.30noybsometimes I get multiples of that primative when I move the model with ctrl-mouse
02:48.12noybin moss.g I got two boxes.
02:49.26noybsorry to stir up and leave... I've gotta date with my wife, and I'm late.  we'll talk later, ignore this stuff. I prob. made a mistake.
02:49.48noybthanks for bein' there brlcad.  later
02:49.56*** part/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
02:50.17brlcadheh
02:52.42*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~cc@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
02:52.53tjyangbrlcad,still here ?
02:53.01starseekerDoes brlcad need a particular version of automake?
02:53.15tjyang2.50 at least
02:53.42starseekerSomehow the configure process wound up with automake- for the automake command
02:54.21tjyangsorry, starseeker. I mean autoconf-2.50. not sure about automake.
02:54.23brlcadstarseeker: prefers relatively recent versions of all the gnu build system tools
02:54.32brlcadstarseeker: what's the problem?
02:54.45starseekerwhat's the past address again? ;-)
02:54.59brlcadat least 1.6 automake, and 2.50 autoconf, 1.4 libtool
02:55.03tjyangbrlcad, check the incoming of ftp.crlcad.org
02:55.14brlcadtjyang: mkay
02:55.15starseekerer paste address
02:55.20starseekerto paste output
02:55.21brlcadpastebin.ca
02:55.21starseekersorry
02:55.56tjyangI did it on RH AS3.0 should work for RH machines at least.
02:56.48tjyangit is quick one, no postinstall, postremove type of scripts.
02:57.19tjyangdo you want to read the package sources to see how it was made ?
02:58.31starseekerhttp://pastebin.ca/4026
02:58.47brlcadtjyang: to see how what was made?
02:58.51tjyangacutally I have user experience of brlcad, so I didn't to test to see if X GUI apps works or not.
02:59.11tjyangto see the .rpm was made, it is not from a rpm .spec file.
03:00.05brlcadheya starseeker .. those versions were minimums, preferred would be latest libtool, latest autoconf, and latest pre 1.9 automake
03:00.17tjyangI did install two on my other rhas30 test box, installation went file. it will create links from /usr/brlcad70/bin/*  to /usr/bin/*
03:01.02starseekerbrlcad:  OK.  I should be OK in that department - what seems to have happened is an automake didn't get chosen.
03:01.12brlcadstarseeker: oooh, you have patches
03:01.16starseekerHmm - maybe I can't use the econf feature after all.
03:01.29starseekerbrlcad - is that a bad thing?
03:01.43brlcadstarseeker: no, it's a great thing
03:02.07brlcadi was just getting to those DESTDIR fixes later tonight
03:02.15starseekerAh :-).
03:02.40starseekerI needed them for the 7.0.2 ebuild - I can send you the file if you like
03:02.52starseekerBut these might be the wrong way to do it
03:03.11brlcadtoo much hassle to paste into the patches tracker so the other guys can see what you did?
03:03.22starseekerNo - where's that at?
03:03.24brlcadnot a big deal if you don't want to
03:03.28tjyangbrlcad, I will try the 7.0.4 version when it is posted. hopefully, solaris and hpux can finished the build with 7.0.4.
03:03.28starseekerno problem
03:03.42brlcadhttp://sf.net/projects/brlcad/   Patches section
03:03.54tjyangI am going to bed. night.
03:03.57brlcadtjyang: sounds good
03:04.06brlcadtjyang: thanks!
03:04.22tjyangtry those two rpm and let me know your comment.
03:04.39brlcadwill give it a try tomorrow morning
03:06.38brlcadstarseeker: that will make you brl-cad's first public patch submitter if you care to know :)
03:06.44starseekerCool :-)
03:06.52starseekerJust submitted (I think)
03:07.05brlcadyep, got it
03:07.24brlcadoop, you missed the checkbox to upload the file
03:08.06starseekerThat should do it
03:08.19brlcadwoot, just figured out one of the major autogen.sh woes
03:08.33starseekerwhy would I specify a file and then not upload it??
03:08.46brlcadheh, i have no idea :)
03:09.03brlcadprobably just trying to save their hard drive space from failed uploads ;)
03:09.34starseekerLet me run the build again with more conservative configure settings - perhaps econf is too much for it or something
03:10.16brlcader, yeah, sorry .. your build error
03:10.21brlcadit's failing on automake-
03:10.37starseekerIs it the patches that are requiring the use of automake?
03:10.52brlcadno, the whole build requires automake
03:11.46starseekeruh - I wonder why it failed there then
03:12.09brlcadthat's the first file you've modified
03:12.26brlcadperhaps you didn't run autogen.sh after the modification?
03:12.48brlcadso it's trying to run to update the Makefile
03:13.04starseekerNo - that's probably it.
03:13.18starseekerlet me add a call to the autogen script
03:14.10brlcadas a patch, you should get away with it by modifying the Makefile instead of the Makefile.am
03:14.25brlcadthen it won't need to rerun autogen.sh
03:15.43starseekerHmm.  I always thought the place to change things like that was Makefile.am, or is that just from a developer's point of view?
03:15.57starseekerI might get away with it anyway - let's see.
03:18.56starseekerWell, it added some crunch time, but configure started OK from the looks of it
03:19.13starseekerIs there a quiet option for the autogen.sh script?
03:19.49brlcadheh, it already is quelling LOTS of output :)
03:19.55starseekerAh :-)
03:20.04brlcadi was actually thinking of adding a -V for debugging
03:20.10brlcador --verbose, etc
03:20.18brlcadcould add a --quiet | -Q too
03:20.45starseekerIt doesn't matter too much - at worst, they'll make me patch the Makefiles instead of Makefile.am
03:21.04brlcadautogen.sh is turning into a program of it's own, accounting for the myrid of gnu build system cruft
03:21.18starseekerI can imagine
03:21.30starseekerthey should do fewer autoconf/automake releases, really
03:21.37brlcadit's one of the most flexible and automatic that I've seen so far though
03:22.00brlcadi've replace other project's autogen.sh scripts to find that this one works (where theirs doesnt)
03:22.24brlcadfortunately fairly application agnostic
03:24.43starseekerCool :-)
03:28.04starseekerAnd the beat (er build) goes on...
03:28.59brlcadcool
03:29.14brlcadhrm, how to succintly test whether tail suports -n or not
03:34.21brlcadyes.. that'll do quite nicely
03:35.05starseekerHeh - nothing exposes weaknesses in a build process like open sourcing it
03:35.54brlcadthis is actually the second major build system for brl-cad
03:36.13starseekerreally?  Was it created for the occasion?
03:36.25brlcadwe converted from a very old and stable build process to the gnu build system about a year ago
03:36.33brlcadso woefully immature compared to what it was
03:36.39starseekerHehe - and have been regretting it ever since ;-)
03:36.43brlcadbut still in the "right" direction for growth
03:36.49brlcadheh, no kidding
03:37.01brlcadit certainly has caused me more headaches than I care to remember
03:37.23starseekerDo you think it will eventually be a benefit, or just "politically correct?"
03:37.51brlcadbut it is comforting to look at our configure script, the makefile.am files, and autogen.sh to realize just how much it's coming together though
03:38.00brlcadit's a lil bit of both already
03:38.11brlcadthe old build system had it's own (different) problems
03:38.17brlcadit didn't even use make
03:38.34starseekerI've gotta say - compared to where Maxima started it's public life, and the problems Axiom is still working through, I'm VERY impressed with brl-cad out of the starting gate
03:39.11brlcadbrl-cad's configure.ac, even with these kinks is seriously better than most i've seen
03:39.17starseeker:-)
03:39.22brlcadthe summary and configure/build times are just icing ;)
03:39.37brlcadi'm hoping it'll serve as an example to other programs
03:39.57starseekerMost could use it, especially scientific programs I'm afraid
03:40.08brlcada lot of time was invested figuring out how to make the configure.ac do various things in the "correct" manner
03:40.27starseekergeant4's build process is certainly enough of a pain
03:40.34starseeker:-)
03:40.36brlcadheh
03:40.48starseekerI wish more people took the time to do it the "correct" way
03:41.42brlcadit's frustrating that even going down that path, there are so many incompatibilites and pitfalls
03:42.01starseekerI sometimes think we need one more rewrite of everything, from the hardware itself, using all the power of modern design and proof logic to ensure we create The Last OS - the one that is done Right at all levels.  It would be like software nirvana
03:42.04brlcadit's understandable why so many ./configure apps "suck"
03:42.30brlcadheh, wasn't that BeOS?
03:43.00starseekerThey came close - they didn't use proof logic in development as far as I know, but they did a lot of things right
03:43.27starseekerI would like to see a BeOS like user experience on top of a kernel designed along the lines of EROS
03:43.44starseekerAnd this time, using the B method so we KNOW it's done right
03:44.58starseekerIf we have to suffer through a monopoly the least they could do is make it tolerable
03:46.42brlcadheh, that would have just been wierd
03:47.04brlcadBeOS had the chance to become Mac OS X, but the CEO blew it
03:47.09brlcadvery cocky bastage
03:48.57*** join/#brlcad dad (dad@dialup-4.176.132.32.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
03:50.03brlcadhello dad
03:52.35dadbrlcad: hi, how is your ay?
03:52.45dadoops s/ay/day
03:52.50brlcadbusy busy, but good
03:52.58brlcadcouple problems fixed for various platforms
03:53.04dadnice
03:53.20brlcada few more and I can get back to making some binary releases
03:53.23dadany news for debian woody?
03:54.11brlcadit's next on my list to attack
03:54.27brlcadi'm hoping some of these other fixes will help there
03:54.33dadi'm almost to the point of saying 'that platform's not recommended'
03:54.45daddo i need to refresh from the cvs?
03:54.47brlcadand even if not, I know I can make the build work there by hand, so I can make the debs
03:54.57dadkule!
03:55.13brlcadi wouldn't say any platform's not recommended
03:55.14dadi don't mind beta testing for you!
03:55.30brlcadjust means we have more work to do, or more to fix, or more to figure out
03:55.51dadi'll update from cvs
03:55.59dadi like that idea
03:56.17brlcadyou may or may not catch me in an unstable state.. i'm commiting non stop here
03:57.43dadhmmm
03:58.14dadco doesn't seem to have updated anything.
03:58.22brlcadahh
03:58.31brlcadanonymous lags behind developer access
03:58.55dadoh
03:59.00brlcadanywhere from a few minutes to 4 hours (at least that was the last promised time frame from sf.net)
04:00.38dadup doesn't seem to get anything new either...
04:00.46dadbut that's ok.
04:00.59dadi'll work on it after a bit
04:02.20starseekerNoooooooo not another one
04:02.35starseekerACCESS DENIED  unlink:    /usr/pro-engineer/install.doc
04:02.35starseeker/bin/install: cannot remove `/usr/lib/../pro-engineer/install.doc': Permission denied
04:02.38brlcadheh (?)
04:02.40brlcadahh
04:02.46brlcadhehe
04:02.52starseekerWhy didn't I see this before I wonder?
04:03.26brlcadlooks like the same problem
04:03.33brlcadmisc/pro-engineer/Makefile.am
04:03.41brlcadinstall-data-local modification
04:04.33brlcadhrm.. cept proebindir is coming from PRO_ENGINEER_DIR from configure
04:05.13brlcadthey use         PRO_ENGINEER_DIR="${prefix}/lib/../pro-engineer"
04:05.44starseekerHmm
04:06.07starseekerso prefix isn't being set using $(DESTDIR) I guess
04:06.28brlcadi believe you can still get away with the same change
04:06.43starseekerIn the Makefile.am?
04:06.45brlcadprefixing the install-data-local directive with a DESTDIR
04:06.47brlcadyeah
04:06.54starseekerOK, I'll give it a shot...
04:08.20brlcadnice, spiked into the top 100 active sf.net projects after only a few days
04:08.31brlcadjust barely, but it's there
04:08.40dadbrlcad: does brlcad use automake?
04:08.50brlcaddad: very much so
04:09.12brlcad1.8 is preferred, 1.7 is tolerable, 1.6 is "possible", anything else is nfg
04:09.20dadK so, i could check for version matches there
04:09.47brlcadlemme give you two updated files to try
04:09.59starseekerOK, running install...
04:10.14dadi have 1.8.5 installed
04:10.35dadatleast automake --version says so
04:11.28starseekerStill alive...
04:11.41dadhmmm autoconf seems to be a big problem:
04:11.52dadAutoconf version 2.13
04:12.57starseekerFudge - I hope autogen.sh doesn't make me rebuild the whole tree...
04:12.59dadand THAT may be my whole issue with Woody
04:13.17brlcaddad, perhaps not.. debian's automake/autoconf are actually scripts
04:13.22brlcadwrapper scripts
04:13.28brlcadthat try to autodetect which version to use
04:13.47brlcadnow the problem you're running into with "dnl" being unknown is indicative of 2.13
04:13.58brlcadbut it should fail with other errors before that..
04:14.29dadi'm looking for a newer autoconf
04:14.55brlcadwhat's your pwd when you ran --version?
04:15.00dadeven if i find an 'unofficial .deb)
04:15.20dadpwd?
04:15.30brlcadtype "pwd" :)
04:15.38dadi'm running it unprivledged
04:15.39brlcadare you in brlcad?
04:15.42dadoh!
04:15.46brlcadit's not a privileged command..
04:15.49brlcadpath to working dir
04:15.58dad/home/dad
04:15.58brlcadtells you where you are
04:16.02brlcadcd brlcad
04:16.05dadyes. sorry
04:16.10brlcadand try autoconf --version
04:16.14*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
04:16.53dadwierd
04:17.07daddad@slavedriver:/downloads/brlcad-7.0/brlcad$ autoconf --version
04:17.07dadautoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.59
04:17.07dadWritten by David J. MacKenzie and Akim Demaille.
04:17.07dadCopyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
04:17.07dadThis is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
04:17.08dadwarranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
04:17.09daddad@slavedriver:/downloads/brlcad-7.0/brlcad$
04:17.29brlcadlittle better
04:17.45brlcadhrm
04:17.57PrezKennedyiz ther a windoz versun?
04:18.01dadi seem to have both installed - perhaps i can uninstall one
04:18.03PrezKennedy;-)
04:18.20dadlol!
04:19.06brlcadPrezKennedy: heh
04:20.29dadthe unix philosiphy of many utilities tied togather seems completely at odds with the windows 'one binary fits all' approach
04:21.00brlcadindeed it does
04:21.09brlcadmuch of the power is lost if you stick to just mged
04:21.29brlcadbut one could probably argue that is a weakness of mged's ability to wrap the tools
04:22.09starseekerGrrrrrr.
04:22.13starseekermake[3]: Nothing to be done for `install-exec-am'.
04:22.13starseeker/bin/sh ../../misc/mkinstalldirs /usr/lib/../pro-engineer
04:22.13starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:22.13starseekerACCESS DENIED  unlink:    /usr/pro-engineer/install.doc
04:22.13starseeker/bin/install: cannot remove `/usr/lib/../pro-engineer/install.doc': Permission denied
04:22.13starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:22.15starseekerACCESS DENIED  unlink:    /usr/pro-engineer/protk.dat
04:22.17starseeker/bin/install: cannot remove `/usr/lib/../pro-engineer/protk.dat': Permission denied
04:22.19starseekermake[3]: *** [install-proeDATA] Error 1
04:22.22starseekerThis is with the changes
04:22.30starseeker$(DESTDIR) is clearly present in the makefile
04:22.56starseekerinstall-proeDATA: $(proe_DATA)
04:22.56starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:22.56starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:22.56starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:22.56starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:22.57starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:22.59starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:23.01starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:23.11starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:23.13starseekerI'm stumped
04:23.17starseekerOpps, sorry - that should have been a paste
04:23.18dadbrlcad: did apt-get remove autoconf2.13
04:23.32dadtrying another autogen.sh
04:23.38brlcaddad, no, they both live on the system simultaneously
04:24.24dadit's still going to barf the same crap
04:24.27dadoops
04:24.34dadyep
04:24.38brlcadheh
04:25.10brlcadhere, these are ultimately the steps that need to succeed
04:25.11dadwell, that was a bust
04:25.17brlcadlet's see where it fails
04:25.26brlcad#  aclocal
04:25.26brlcad#  libtoolize --automake -c -f
04:25.26brlcad#  aclocal          
04:25.26brlcad#  autoconf -f
04:25.28brlcad#  autoheader
04:25.31brlcad#  automake -a -c -f
04:25.34brlcadtry each one of those
04:25.41dadok
04:25.41brlcadin orer
04:25.51brlcads/or/ord/
04:26.45brlcadsuggest starting from a "fresh" unmodified CVS
04:28.10dadlots of warnings in aclocal
04:28.27brlcadon the first one?
04:28.37dadyep
04:28.43brlcadsuch as?
04:28.49dadlots of 'underquoted' stuff
04:29.02brlcadpaste in a private message?
04:29.13dadcan do
04:30.39daddone
04:30.55*** join/#brlcad agc (~glipandgl@venture04d02.hiscs.org)
04:34.20brlcadi believe those warnings are okay.. they are all for other project m4 files
04:34.50agcHello all.  I'm looking for help on compiling on Mac OSX.3.7.
04:35.33brlcad:)
04:35.40PrezKennedyoh no not another!!
04:35.45agcThe build process fails in making rttherm, with lots of duplicate symbols.
04:35.59agcPointers to FAQs?
04:36.32brlcadagc, yes.. the source tarball is invalid on the Macs for some reason.. it'll be fixed in a new 7.0.4 to be uploaded real soon now
04:36.44brlcadagc, you can get around the problem locally thogh
04:36.52brlcadrm db/*.g
04:36.54brlcad./autogen.sh
04:37.01brlcadand then proceed
04:37.14brlcad./configure && make, etc
04:37.29agcThese are from the top of the source tree, then?
04:37.34brlcaddad, next steps?
04:37.36brlcadagc: yes
04:37.51agcbrlcad, thanks much.
04:37.55dadhaven't been there yet
04:38.48dadlibtoolize was quick! with no output
04:39.12brlcadthat's okay
04:39.34dadaclocal complains about the same things
04:40.00starseekerwhat is proengineer, anyway?
04:40.19dadthat is, the second time around
04:41.22dadconfigure.ac:1: error: possibly undefined macro: dnl
04:41.22dad<PROTECTED>
04:41.44dadthat's the 2.13 thing (i had re-installed it)
04:41.50brlcaddad, on autoheader?
04:42.03brlcadstarseeker: it's another solid modeler
04:42.13dadautoconf -f
04:42.41dadmore errors also
04:43.06dadi'll paste em in the pm
04:43.15starseekerCRAAAAAAAAP.  I can't make a dent in this thing.  brlcad, if make a paste can you take a why this might not localize?
04:44.44dadautoheader also barfs
04:46.34PrezKennedygnight all
04:47.47starseekerlatest (and most stubborn) gentoo build barf:  http://pastebin.ca/4031
04:47.47dadPrezKennedy: nite
04:47.50PrezKennedythey like to turn all the lights off at work.. so if i dont sleep now ill sleep then :-P
04:48.30starseekerGotta grab a nap, then do some Real Work.  I guess the challenge of the brlcad ebuild must wait another day or two :-(
04:49.20dadi'm going to look for some things, i suspect i don't have all the stuff needed to make brl-cad, and that's my problem
04:49.57brlcadwe can bypass autogen.sh
04:50.10brlcadby using a pregenerated configure
04:50.36brlcadcopy this over your configure
04:50.48brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/configure
04:51.59brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/ltmain.sh  goes in misc/.
04:52.07*** join/#brlcad villain_415 (~supervill@node-4024033a.sfo.onnet.us.uu.net)
04:52.24brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/install-sh  goes in misc/.
04:53.00villain_415hello, I was wondering if anyone has had any luck getting brlcad to compile on OS X
04:53.28brlcadvillain_415: rm db/*.g  and then ./autogen.sh   and then continue as before
04:53.46dadwierd. tcl.m4 is in the tl8.2 and 8.3 .debs - i have 8.3 installed, yet that's where some of the failing .m4 def's are
04:54.08dadoops s/tl8.2/tcl8.2
04:54.21villain_415sorry i'm not so good with the cl could you please give me a bit more info
04:54.37brlcaddad, yes, it's just complaining about quotings.. that's normal in versions more up to date
04:54.48dadoic
04:54.50dadok
04:54.54brlcadthey have to parse through the installed m4's and they complain in the process
04:55.18dadan 'error' would be more serious?
04:55.36brlcadmuch more
04:55.46brlcadthat dnl is at the heart of whatever's going on
04:55.56brlcaddad, try copying those files in and running them..
04:56.14brlcads/them/configure/
04:57.43agcvillain, I just aked this question.
04:58.22villain_415agc, i just popped in and i'm currently *nix deficient, is there a way to look at was said before
04:58.36agcvillain_415, launch the command line
04:59.14villain_415i'm running terminal, i think i got it, but i was getting a bunch of complaints
04:59.33dadbrlcad: the ltmain.sh was 404
04:59.55agcyup.  Now run the command    rm db/*.g
05:00.12agcfrom the top-level directory of the source distribution.
05:00.26villain_415agc, that was where i was getting complaints.  I don't seem to have any .g files in db
05:00.31brlcaddad, ack, i'm messing with that server as I type..sorry
05:00.42dadno problem
05:00.47agcThat's good.
05:00.53agc(villain_415)
05:01.21agcv, now run the command     ./autogen.sh
05:01.46villain_415agc, just finished, and now i'm on ./configure
05:01.54agcOK.
05:02.38villain_415agc, ok, so now i just did make, and I got the following errors
05:02.53villain_415agc, make[3] [ththerm] Error 1
05:03.09villain_415make [2] [all] error 2
05:03.23villain_415make[1] [all-recursinve] Error 1
05:03.34brlcaddad, try ltmain.sh now
05:03.38dadok
05:03.40villain_415and make [all-recursive] error 1
05:03.52agcvillain_415, I did too.  What I did next was      make clean
05:03.53dadthere it is
05:04.08villain_415agc, ah, ok
05:04.40agcvillain_415, which deletes all the results so far (of course), and then ./autogen.sh and then ./configure (etc).
05:04.58villain_415agc, ok thanks
05:05.13agcvillain_415, mine is building as we type; hasn't gotten to the rttherm part again yet.
05:05.17dadbrlcad: and go right to make?
05:05.45dadoops, no that's ./configure
05:05.48brlcaddad, no ./configure
05:05.54brlcadyeah
05:05.56dadgot it
05:07.32dadconfig.status: error: cannot find input file: include/config.h.in
05:08.08dadhmmm
05:09.45dadbrlcad: this has to be quite a distraction from other parts of your project
05:11.03brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/config.h.in
05:11.12brlcaddad, it's all good though so long as you stay interested ;)
05:12.07villain_415agc, thanks for your help, but husband duty calls.  Hopefully it will work
05:12.37dadyes. but at this point, i'm not so much interrested in running brl-cad, as figuring out why i can't build it with the normal steps
05:13.28dadbrlcad: is config.h.in executable?
05:13.38brlcadno, it's a header file template
05:13.45brlcadgoes in the include/ dir
05:13.46dadhmmm
05:13.53dadoh
05:14.19brlcadmight be missing a couple other templates..
05:14.30dadwe'll see
05:15.51dad./configure complete, type 'make' to begin building
05:15.54dad:)
05:16.23dadlet you know in about an hour, how it went....
05:19.30brlcadheh, so you think :)
05:19.41brlcadyou assume it won't fail before then =)
05:19.58brlcadi vaguely recall there being a build error down the line on debby
05:26.27*** join/#brlcad dad_ (dad@dialup-4.176.42.141.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
05:26.54dad_but i don't have tk 8.4 - i have 8.3 (can install 8.4...
05:28.28brlcadhrm?
05:28.36brlcadbrl-cad includes tck/tk
05:29.19brlcadonly external deps should be mesa/opengl-dev libs, [n]curses, termcap
05:31.25dad_i have those
05:32.01dad_make make make.... :)
05:36.44brlcadgo for it and we'll see :)
05:37.05brlcadi'd be more comfortable with a proper distfile (which I'm about ready to provide)
05:37.11brlcadbut this may work too
05:37.32brlcadstarseeker: what was the fix for pro-engineer?
05:37.59brlcad<PROTECTED>
05:38.00brlcad?
05:43.19brlcadstarseeker: your patch is now in CVS
05:52.25agcEh!  Build has finished.  Benchmarking.  Thanks much, brlcad.  Now to try it out.
05:53.40agcI'll write up the temp fix and put it on a web page.  Thanks again.
05:54.32brlcadexcellent
06:23.54dad_brlcad: /bin/sh: ECHO@: command not found
06:23.54dad_make[1]: *** [all-local] Error 127
06:24.01dad_lol!
06:24.55dad_not sure where it is in the makefile...
06:25.14dad_make[1]: Entering directory `/downloads/brlcad-7.0/brlcad'
06:25.14dad_/bin/sh: ECHO@: command not found
06:25.14dad_make[1]: *** [all-local] Error 127
06:25.14dad_make[1]: Leaving directory `/downloads/brlcad-7.0/brlcad'
06:25.14dad_make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
06:25.14dad_dad@slavedriver:/downloads/brlcad-7.0/brlcad$
06:25.29brlcadwoo hoo
06:25.32brlcadthat's at the very end
06:25.40brlcadit goes to print out a summary
06:25.56brlcadso if it got that far, it finished
06:26.03dad_so, it ran but errored in the summary...
06:26.11dad_i'll install
06:26.11brlcadexactly :)
06:26.30brlcadinstall will likewise output that ECHO@ error at the end
06:26.49dad_ok
06:34.52dad_does BRLCAD_ROOT point to /usr/brlcad/bin?
06:41.02*** part/#brlcad dad_ (dad@dialup-4.176.42.141.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
06:41.05*** join/#brlcad dad_ (dad@dialup-4.176.42.141.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
06:41.37dad_ok. was worrie...
06:41.45dad_d
06:47.36brlcadno, it would normally point to /usr/brlcad
06:47.47brlcadthough you shouldn't need to set it
06:49.39dad_all's not well here
06:49.59dad_mged> gui
06:49.59dad_invalid command name "gui"
06:49.59dad_mged>
06:50.24dad_mged> dm set
06:50.24dad_The 'nu' display manager does not support local commands.
06:50.24dad_mged>
06:50.39dad_mged> attach ogl
06:50.39dad_invalid command name "_init_dm"attach(ogl): BAD
06:50.39dad_mged>
06:50.52dad_mged> attach X
06:50.52dad_invalid command name "_init_dm"attach(X): BAD
06:50.52dad_mged>
06:51.20dad_which is where i was last night...
06:51.26dad_:)
06:54.18dad_hmmmm
06:56.13*** join/#brlcad villain_415 (~supervill@node-4024033a.sfo.onnet.us.uu.net)
07:00.21villain_415hello,  Just a quick question.  I ran through the install ran make benchmark with no problems but I do not find anything in /usr/local/bin that has been installed.  I ran updatedb and if i `locate brlcad` it only comes up with stuff in the source directory.  Am i missing something or did the install fail
07:01.11dad_villain_415: /usr/brlcad unless you changed it...
07:02.56villain_415dad no i did not change it, but i went through and ran some of the stuff in /usr/brlcad/bin (sorry forgot to mention that locate popped that up too) i just get some command line stuff.  is there a tk directory that will run an overall program or is that it
07:03.49brlcadvillain_415: there are about 400 separate apps, the primary gui'd app is mged
07:04.22dad_/usr/brlcad/bin has mged that seems like a major part of brlcad
07:04.51villain_415oh, ok thanks, also i jsut ran man mged and nothing comes up.  How does the man for brlcad work?
07:05.02brlcaddad_: hrm.. gui gui gui..
07:05.16brlcadvillain_415: nothing comes up?  what's it say?
07:05.24villain_415no man entry for mged
07:05.34brlcadoh man mged
07:05.36dad_villain_415: did you add the PATH?
07:05.47brlcadit's very likely that /usr/brlcad/man is not in your MANPATH
07:05.52brlcad;)
07:06.00brlcadlikewise /usr/brlcad/bin is not in your PATH
07:06.04villain_415no.  i'm not so good with *nox as of yet.  How would I add that to my man path
07:06.16brlcadvillain_415: we have a wrapper tool for that
07:06.19brlcadbrlman mged
07:06.38brlcadbrlman knows about brl-cad manpages
07:06.48villain_415oh, ok.  so if i add brldad/bin to my path then I can run brlman
07:06.58brlcadright
07:07.06brlcador run /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman mged
07:07.33brlcadfor a bash/bourne-sh-based shell, you'll need to add something like:
07:07.47brlcadPATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
07:07.49brlcadexport PATH
07:08.08brlcadto your ~/.bash_profile or ~/.profile or /etc/profile
07:08.29brlcadsomething similar if you are c-shell-based
07:08.39villain_415cool. i got it to work.  THank you all very much
07:09.06brlcaddad_: did you send me your config.log?
07:09.14brlcadand if not, would you please? :)
07:09.31brlcadI think I'll just have to compile this one for you and make the .deb
07:09.56dad_no. but will ummm brlcad.com?
07:10.17brlcadhuh?
07:10.22brlcadbrlcad.com?
07:11.21brlcadthat's actually a close affiliate's site -- they do the commercial support
07:11.30brlcadbrlcad.org is the project site
07:11.47dad_ok
07:12.40brlcadwhat I meant is that I have access to debian boxes.. I'll make a binary distribution for you to just install, and perhaps figure out what else I can about the failing build in the process
07:13.00brlcadgetting a look at the config.log file in your source directory should help me figure out what's going on
07:13.09brlcadwould you e-mail it to me?
07:13.37dad_yes, i will email it
07:14.31brlcaddad_: thank you so much for your patience..
07:15.38dad_de nada, no biggie
07:15.56dad_in the ./src directory?
07:16.12brlcadin the same dir as configure
07:18.26dad_yea, it's on it's way
07:18.37brlcadthank you!
07:18.40brlcad~dad++
07:20.27dad_brlcad: do i need a working jre?
07:20.35brlcadno
07:20.41dad_thank you!]
07:25.10brlcadoh you know what.. i bet i know what's missing..
07:25.23brlcad(got your log, btw)
07:25.33dad_:)
07:25.53dad_i'm going over it myself
07:26.29dad_but alas, i'm not a programmer, and may not understand all i see
07:26.33brlcadwe often have a problem with bzflag where debian systems don't have their X libs and dirs in place
07:26.56brlcadi'll see if that sheds any light
07:26.59dad_hmmm
07:28.11EricWilhelmwow! dad, are you still trying to get it to compile?
07:28.36EricWilhelmthere must be a world of difference between 'stable' and 'testing'
07:29.04dad_EricWilhelm: it complies just fine, only without a gui or other dm
07:29.19dad_EricWilhelm: stable sux!
07:29.54dad_and as soon as i can, i'll install fedora, suse, mandrake, or some other distro
07:30.01brlcaddad_: grep GL include/config.h
07:30.26EricWilhelmI haven't tried it, but this 'apt-get dist-upgrade' thing does sound interesting.  I switched to debian after dreading to upgrade rh7.3 for a few years
07:33.30brlcaddad_: aha!.. i think i may have a culprit
07:33.44brlcadautomake doesn't seem to be using the AM_CFLAGS like it's supposed to
07:34.12brlcaddad_: cd src/libfb
07:34.14brlcadmake clean
07:34.23brlcadcd ../..
07:34.32brlcad./configure CPPFLAGS="-DIF_REMOTE -DIF_AB -DIF_X -DIF_OGL"
07:34.37brlcadmake
07:35.33*** join/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
07:36.10noyb~seen brlcad
07:36.12ibotbrlcad is currently on #brlcad (1d 8h 22m) #bzflag (1d 8h 22m).  Has said a total of 497 messages.  Is idling for 1m 35s
07:36.24noybhi brlcad
07:36.29brlcadhowdy
07:36.36dad_k, i'm doing a ./configure the way you said...
07:37.05noybhi dad
07:37.07noybhehe
07:37.42dad_hey! and it even gave the configure summary!
07:39.00dad_make make make...
07:42.03dad_that was too quick, and it's not right still
07:42.22brlcadyou did the make clean in src/libfb yes?
07:42.46dad_yes
07:43.00brlcadand it seemed to rebuild that library I hope?
07:43.00dad_oh!
07:43.05dad_duh
07:43.08brlcadmake install helps too :)
07:43.22dad_leme do the make install from R0ot
07:43.50dad_:)
07:43.57brlcadfairly certain that's the problem..
07:44.14brlcadif it fails, best to recompile fresh with that configure
07:44.19dad_let you know in a bit...
07:44.23brlcadk
07:45.28noybbrlcad: is there an archive of this channel, like #bzflag at: http://ibot.rikers.org/bzflag/
07:45.57brlcadsame place
07:46.15brlcadhttp://ibot.rikers.org/brlcad/
07:46.21brlcad~logs
07:46.23ibothmm... logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz for apt, ibot, jbot and purl.
07:47.04noybtoo clever.  why didn't I think of that?
07:49.16noybfish slaps, seen, bzflag server queries...  ibot is like your secretary but you need to ask her properly.
07:49.22noyb~ibot help
07:49.37brlcadibot: help
07:49.45dad_i'll have to make clean
07:49.46brlcadare equivalent
07:49.53noyb~help
07:49.54brlcaddad_: what'd it do??
07:50.50brlcadit's detected X seemingly correctly .. i can see that in your log
07:50.54dad_the same thing invalid command name "gui"
07:51.02noyb~help commands
07:51.12noyb~help ibot
07:51.15brlcaddad_: is BRLCAD_ROOT set?
07:51.24dad_should be...
07:51.26brlcadunset BRLCAD_ROOT
07:51.33brlcadand try mged
07:52.00noybsorry for my noise... I'm not getting what I want from the secretary.  
07:52.06noyb~fishslap ibot
07:52.08ibotACTION slaps ibot up side the head with a wet fish.
07:52.37dad_heh! thar she bees!
07:53.13brlcadw00t w00t!
07:53.27noybwhat does that mean?
07:53.27brlcad*whew*
07:53.42brlcadnoyb: it means I don't have to go shoot myself
07:53.44brlcador mged
07:53.47brlcadjust quite yet
07:53.53dad_nyob: means we're cruzin now...
07:54.02noybyay!  brlcad lives!
07:54.07brlcadyeesh
07:54.22brlcaddad_: well thank you.. i think that isolated the gui problem for me
07:54.35brlcadand the ogl/X display manager missing problem
07:54.54brlcaddad_: where did you read to set BRLCAD_ROOT?
07:54.57dad_brlcad: i think i may have been setting BRLCAD_ROOT wrong as well
07:55.02noybdad's been around for a few days trying to build...  If you're impatient, it doesn't show.
07:55.10noybyay dad!  
07:55.22brlcadhe's very patient
07:55.35brlcadand I think he's saved me and other debian users a lot of time
07:55.43noybyou too, brl
07:56.04noyb~brlcad++
07:56.09dad_brlcad: it just popped up, after the first build - set BRLCAD_ROOT, with no explanation of where to point it - so i thought there is the /bin...
07:56.09noyb~dad++
07:56.37brlcadahh
08:17.51noyb~dad_++
08:18.25dad_noyb: thanks :)
08:18.37noybmissed the _ first time.
08:18.41noybyw
08:19.31dad_you see, i'm an equipment maintenance technician by trade, and patience is one of the most important attributes
08:19.35brlcad~karma dad
08:19.35ibotdad has karma of 2
08:20.07dad_second is yes, but it was brlcad that fixed it all...
08:20.18dad_so should be brlcad++
08:20.26dad_brlcad++
08:20.33dad_brlcad++
08:21.12noybI think you need the tilde '~' as first char.
08:21.25noybanyway, good job.  
08:21.51dad_brlcad: and you've been here with me thru the whole thing, looking this way and that (i thhink i've sent you atleast 2 config.log's
08:21.54noybI guess it's the irc virtual hi-five and cheek slap.
08:21.57dad_~brlcad++
08:24.45brlcadhehe
08:25.15dad_~brlcad++
08:25.37dad_this is such a kule thing!
08:25.58brlcadglad you like it.. :)
08:26.29brlcadmged is one of the buggiest unfortunately of all the tools, but it is also by far the most complex/complicated
08:27.07brlcadif you find anything that's not behaving, or if it crashes -- especially if it's something that you can reproduce, please report it to the bug tracker on the project site
08:28.24brlcaddad_: you also didn't compile --enable-optimized so if it starts to feel sluggish, remember that you have that tucked away (it should give you a 20-50% performance boost across the board).
08:30.25noybI can vouch for that.  I went from about 340 to about 740  (if my mem serves right) do you remember brl?
08:30.45brlcadahh, i never heard the latter.. sweet
08:31.21brlcadheh, that's almost 200%
08:31.34noybit's in the logs...  you were away.
08:31.43brlcadyeah, it's sitting with learner
08:32.26noybI posted the vgr lines together.   the hostname is localhost   :)  
08:32.29dad_i'll remember that as well.
08:32.52brlcaddad_: did you get a vgr count?
08:32.58dad_by the way, i saved the irc scrollback, so i could recreate the ./configure
08:33.06brlcadvia make benchmark
08:33.24dad_oh! haven't run the bemchmarks this build
08:34.58dad_error ECHO@ won't let me get the benchmarks, but alas...
08:35.12brlcadahh
08:35.14brlcadcd bench
08:35.15brlcad./run.sh
08:36.07dad_ah...
08:36.33dad_that's better
08:37.11brlcadvgr line will be in a file named summary when run that way
08:40.52brlcadthe numbers will make more sense to me.. but you're basically looking at the performance statistics of raytrace performance (pseudo rays/sec) and quantitative comparison against a very old stable system
08:41.52brlcadthe last number of the *vgr line will list your average performance as compared to that system (you are 500 times faster for example).
08:42.18brlcadunoptimized will be sorely low, but it still gives a good idea of performance
08:45.48dad_*vgr    slavedriver     152.93  143.52  190.14  157.04  147.10  .84     131.92
08:45.57noybouch
08:46.11dad_the lower the number, the slower?
08:46.26dad_oh, and i was runnng mged at the time...
08:47.09dad_but alas, this gives me good reason to dual head my desktop :)
08:47.14brlcadmm.. ouch yes :)
08:47.26dad_or add a second display
08:47.45noybhere's a fresh run of my bench: *vgr    phq.local       727.60  779.17  962.87  832.38  821.68  4.25    687.99
08:48.38brlcadthere is some instability in your numbers there dad_ so something may be influencing the numbers somewhat
08:49.43dad_i'm doing it again, i was playing with shifty handles :)
08:50.06brlcadyou may have even more to gain by building optimized though too
08:50.32dad_but because it was doing benchmarks, the rotate was quite unpredictable
08:51.00dad_it's running this processor flat out 100% utilization...
08:51.08dad_erm
08:51.24brlcadyes, it should max out your machine
08:51.36dad_and that it does
08:51.59brlcadand it's doing it reniced so if you use other apps, they will steal performance and mess up the results (slightly)
08:53.14dad_*vgr    slavedriver     156.69  159.42  194.66  169.35  146.89  .77     137.96
08:53.42brlcadlil better
08:53.50dad_yea
08:54.29brlcadyou'll get a much bigger boost if you recompile with optimizations, so if you end up raytracing a lot you'll probably want to rebuild
08:54.35brlcadshould be fine for now though
08:58.13dad_yea, i think raytracing's gonna be a major thing...
08:58.35dad_by the way, is there much support for terrains?
08:58.49brlcadheh, is there
08:59.04brlcad.. yes .. fairly optimized support
08:59.12dad_:)
08:59.33brlcadthere's a "dsp" primitive
08:59.52brlcadwhich is your traditional 'height field' primitive
09:00.12brlcadnot the same as the "hf" primitive (which was obsoleted by the dsp)
09:00.31brlcaddsp == DiSPlacement map
09:01.43brlcadyou feed it a special raw data file (there are cmd-line tools to convert image data to the specified data format)
09:12.07dad_that rocks!
09:16.26brlcadg'night
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09:45.24dad_ok, i'll try an optomized build...
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14:34.53brlcadpolyspin: looks like there was another 400 downloads Sunday, web hits dropped to 6k
14:37.20brlcad21K hits total
14:38.11brlcadmakes a cumulative of about 60K since being uploaded
14:38.14polyspinPage views?
14:38.20brlcadyes
14:38.37polyspinDo we get stats on CVS downloads?
14:39.04brlcadi'm not sure whether anonymous are tracked in the cvsroot history file
14:39.22brlcadhave to look at a cvsroot snapshot
14:41.15brlcadthe history file was already pretty huge when i uploaded, so i'll see if they kept it or started fresh
14:48.21brlcadahh, looks like a zero'd history
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14:55.58brlcadpolyspin: looks like a zero'd the cvs history, but there is hints of anonymous tracking in it .. not sure how many days it's delayed so I'll recheck it in a week or so
14:56.27brlcadthat is.. the CVSROOT/history file that tracks checkouts/checkins/etc
14:59.12polyspinGot it.
15:10.14polyspinback again
15:20.21tjyang-awaybrlcad,got a chance to check out brlcad rpm package yet ?
15:35.55tjyang-awayplease delete the rpm after you grabbed it. it should be a alpha stage rpm.
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19:32.22dad:)
19:32.30dadgreetings, all
19:39.38EricWilhelmgo dad
19:39.48EricWilhelmdid you get mged running?
19:49.03dad*vgr    slavedriver     233.01  233.61  280.23  242.57  227.90  1.24    203.09
19:49.27dadnot much, but better than the ~145 last night
19:49.51dadEricWilhelm: yes, and brlcad was an immense help
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20:38.09brlcaddad_: greetings ;)
21:27.23dad_brlcad: greetings, salutations and 'yer awesome'!
21:27.53dad_i got the *vgr up to 233!
21:30.16brlcadexcellent =)
21:36.17dad_brlcad: is there a database of commonly used items? such as gears, etc...?
22:02.49brlcaddad_: not exactly any that are publicly available
22:11.23dad_K
22:11.36dad_are there plans for such a repository?
22:42.24starseekerbrlcad:  Had a chance to look at the Makefile for proengineer?
22:55.20dad_how would i replicate a shape thru an arc or around a circle?
23:15.39EricWilhelmthat's a tough one dad
23:16.09EricWilhelmthere doesn't seem to be anything about using the sketcher in the intro to mged, and I imagine you would have to use a sketch to make a revolved solid
23:16.39EricWilhelmor are you just trying to make a polar array?
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23:54.06dad_EricWilhelm: visualize for a moment a gear
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050112

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050112

00:19.47dad_which would be say a cyllinder with many rcc type objects replicated around the perimiter
00:21.19dad_but the gear would be a union of all those objects, and perhaps if i wanted to get fancy, there would be the same rcc type subtracted to get a contour at the root of each tooth
00:24.55dad_no, that's wrong it would be perhaps rpc types
00:35.38learnerstarseeker, I briefly looked at the pro-e makefile -- added the same DESTDIR as the others..
00:36.04learnerdad_, yes there are plans for a public repository now that we can :)
00:36.23learnerI'd like to set up a geometry and parts database that is visualizeable on-line
00:36.43learnerwe have a simplified mged running in a java applet, that might work nicely for starters
00:37.24learnerdad_ for things like gears, I recommend looking at the pattern tool if you haven't already
00:37.41starseekerlearner:  OK - I'll see if that did it
00:37.48starseekerlearner:  Where was it missing?
00:38.08learnerstarseeker, I'm not saying what I put in even works.. haven't tested it yet :)
00:38.14starseekerAh :)
00:38.22starseekerIs it in cvs, or just your local copy?
00:38.26learnercvs
00:38.29starseekerOK.
00:38.33starseekerMakefile.am?
00:38.34learnerfrom last night, so should be in anonymous now
00:41.21starseekergot it
00:41.43starseekerrunning autogen.sh
00:42.27starseekertrying install...
00:47.06starseekerFudge
00:47.09starseekerNope.
00:47.47starseekerLet me do a fresh rebuild, see if that does anything
00:50.32learneri was skeptical of that one helping
00:50.42learnerit builds the dir differently
00:50.57learneri'll poke at it later tonight to see if I can fix it
00:51.01dad_learner, thanks :)
00:53.10starseekerthanks learner!
00:53.24starseekerYou want me to try the clean build, just to be sure?
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01:08.39learneryay, CIA is back
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01:10.03learnerhowdy lengthy
01:10.21|tim|hiya
01:10.48|tim|what ever happened to my shell account?
01:11.11learner|tim|, you've been away from some time I take it :)
01:11.22|tim|yeah true :)
01:11.28learner|tim|, the server moved finally
01:11.38|tim|heh, took a while
01:13.02learnerwell, it's been a couple months now :)
01:13.33|tim|yea
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01:40.27learnerstarseeker, no need, it would have detected the new makefile.am
01:41.25brixsteris it possible to run brlcad on windows?
01:41.34learnerit is
01:41.42learnerbut there are presently no binaries available yet
01:41.52brixsterwhat do i need to use to compile it
01:42.09learnerit will be a couple weeks before they are ready
01:42.14learnerheh
01:42.20learneryou need patience
01:42.31brixsteryeah
01:42.47learnerand either lots of familiarity/understanding of autoconf/automake or studio/.net
01:43.22brixsterthen i will use studio.net
01:43.35learnerthere's a fair bit of work to get it working under cygwin/mingw/msys, but that'll be the "holistic port" route
01:44.02brixsteryeah i tried it it wasnt working to well
01:44.03learnerthere have been various versions of ms studio files for compiling
01:44.10brixsterreally
01:44.22learnerthere's guys working on the latter over the next couple weeks
01:44.33brixsterok i will keep a look out then
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03:57.21tjyanglearner, you here ?
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05:20.56learnerhello noyb
05:31.35dad__noyb: greetings...
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15:37.24janohovadko sounds slavik
15:37.31janoalmost slovak
15:41.26hovadkoSlovak ;-D? No ... Czech ;-D ...
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16:00.18brlcadhello hovadko
16:00.38hovadkoHello ;-D ...
16:10.54tjyangbrlcad, are you going to release 7.04. today ?
16:11.39tjyangIs it possible you can setup a brlcad wiki site to make us work more efficient ?
16:16.59brlcadtjyang-away: that's a great idea
16:17.32tjyang-awaybut who is going to do it ;)
16:17.37brlcadheh :)
16:17.45brlcadwould you like to?
16:17.55tjyang-awaynope ;)
16:18.05brlcadk ;)
16:18.38brlcadyeah, a new "real" site is half-ready, but not posted
16:18.43brlcadincludes a wiki
16:19.02tjyang-awaygood to know.
16:19.24brlcadi can post up a quick wiki for the next couple weeks  to get started
16:20.20tjyang-awaywhat wiki enginge you are going to use ?
16:20.38brlcadwhich engine are you partial too?
16:22.59tjyang-awayI picked twiki becuase of our perl environement but later decide to go with moinmoin for easy of admininitration.
16:23.42tjyang-awaywe will have both twiki and moinmoin packaged ;)
16:24.52brlcadfeature-wise and interface-wise, I'm partial to the one that runs wikipedia
16:25.00brlcadwe use moinmoin on bz
16:25.05brlcadit's okay
16:25.58brlcadthe content management system being tested has a wiki module too, which will have priority if it's any good
16:26.10tjyang-awayplone ?
16:26.27tjyang-awayor zope
16:28.08tjyang-awaygot to go.
16:28.16tjyang-awaylater.
16:28.53brlcadcya
16:29.07tjyang-awaybrlcad, eager to try out your 7.0.4 to see if it can compile on our suns and hps.
16:29.10tjyang-awaybye
16:29.55brlcadit's really soon.  still a few more issues to work out.
16:30.07brlcadupdating URT and libpng as part of the update
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17:06.46mycr0ftWhere can I find the complete BRL-CAD documentation?
17:37.01janowhat's jason doing using screen on phole?
17:37.38janoah, czech.. smradlavy czesi! :P :D (I'm slovak)
17:38.06janowhat's with all the euro names here.. hovadko czech, jano slovak, tibor hungarian
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18:01.41brlcadmycr0ft: http://brlcad.org has documentation
18:03.01tjyangbrlcad, I think he was asking  "complete" documentation.
18:03.13brlcadbbiab
18:16.19mycr0ftOK I see the pdf docs... and i'm hoping that and the compilation instructions are what I need to get started learning BRLCAD
18:17.08mycr0ftif I get anywhere, I'll offer to help with updating and/or completing documentation
18:23.51mycr0ftI see a Volume II, III, and IV. Did I miss a I?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050113

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050113

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00:13.38nayasihei
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03:55.58learnerhello mycr0ft
03:56.16learnermycr0ft, the getting started link on brlcad.org is the relevant portions of volume I
03:56.34mycr0ftah OK thanks learner
03:56.43learnerthe rest of volume one involved distribution, license agreements, etc -- all invalidated by the open sourcing
03:57.08mycr0ftsweet
03:57.47mycr0ftOK I've downloaded everything and will be trying out BRLCAD right after I finish all my SBIR proposals. Sigh.
03:57.56mycr0ftThanks
03:58.11learnersounds like fun (not)
03:58.33learnerslipping some brl-cad improvements into the sbir? :)
03:58.45learneror leveraging the codebase ;)
03:58.57learner(it's been done before so I'm not exactly joking)
03:59.21mycr0ftActually BRLCAD doesn't really enter into this round.
03:59.47mycr0ftI'm writing on MEMS projects and a Natural Language parser.
03:59.49learnermged's replacement is actually coming out of an sbir as will much of the windows support
04:00.15learnerahh, nlp is fun stuff
04:00.17mycr0ftI think getting SBIR support for OSS software would be a worthy goal
04:00.51mycr0ftEspecially when it can benefit both the govt partner and the general community
04:01.02learnerit would, though it's more support of an "old, stable, powerful military code" ...
04:01.08learner... that happens to now be open source
04:01.15learnerexactly
04:01.30mycr0ftunfortunately, the one problem with the SBIR program is the Commercialization aspect of it.
04:01.55mycr0ftAnd OSS software is a hard sell since you have to claim that you are selling support contracts
04:02.02mycr0ftor services
04:02.20mycr0ftAt least that's what I got back in one review
04:02.52learneractually not that hard for a codebase like brl-cad
04:03.10learnerbrl-cad is just an underlying code used to some other means usually
04:03.24mycr0ftYeah, that's true.
04:03.46mycr0ftThe licensing on the BRL Code-base... is it more BSD or more GPL?
04:04.07learnerit's like picking up libpng or some other library .. lots of facilities jump-starting the project
04:04.33learnerdifferent parts are under different license
04:04.44learnerthe binaries are under the gpl
04:04.50learnerthe libraries are under the lgpl
04:05.01learnerthe docs are under the gfdl
04:05.23learnerthe build system, support scripts, benchmark suite, regression test suite are all under the bsd license or in the public domain
04:05.45mycr0ftThanks for the info. \n Well, I gotta sleep before I croak... I've got to finish 2 more SBIR proposals by Friday morning.
04:05.53learnergood luck
04:06.06mycr0ftgl to you too.
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04:53.04PrezKennedyaint nothin like bein rejected cuz youre on a different "intelectual" level :-\
04:53.20PrezKennedyme bein on the upper side no less
05:19.29learnerheh
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07:58.51learnerwb noyb
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15:31.48brlcadahh, just missed him
15:34.14EricWilhelmbrlcad, I think brlcad's sketcher is a little clunky
15:34.20EricWilhelmIs it just me?
15:34.33brlcadno, it's very clunky
15:34.51brlcadit was minimal support for a very limited task
15:35.06EricWilhelmwhat would it take to export the sketch geometry and let a drafting program edit it?
15:35.30EricWilhelm(e.g. like your mail client or browser launching an external program with a tempfile name)
15:35.43brlcadin general, brl-cad has had no funding for 2d-related geometries, anything related to drafting, CAM, etc
15:36.38brlcadi'd imagine that the easiest would be to add direct export support for the sketch primitive to the converter formats that can handle it (like g-dxf)
15:36.43EricWilhelmwhat about printing a hidden-line drawingL (as vectors, not raster/rendered)
15:37.08EricWilhelmbut .g can't have simultaneous access, right?
15:37.33EricWilhelms/drawingL/drawing?/
15:37.39brlcadnot from separate processes
15:38.09EricWilhelmcan brlcad create a .g tempfile from a slice of the database?
15:38.21EricWilhelmand read any modifications back in?
15:39.08EricWilhelmthat would make for a very hackable plugin architecture
15:39.12brlcadyes it can
15:39.30brlcadyou can "keep" geometry and various was to read them back on
15:41.47EricWilhelmwhat code would I have to work with?  The mged source?
15:47.48EricWilhelm(or is there a way to do it with scripts?)
15:48.55brlcadthe code to "keep" subsets of a .g and reload them are available via the api and as simple mged commands .. so that part is pretty flexible
15:49.32brlcadthe conversion of that geometry to another format via a converter would be the work involved
15:50.15EricWilhelmokay, say I want to replace the create->sketch menu item code.  Does that have to be compiled-in?
15:50.45brlcade.g. you keep all.g from moss.g to a file.. run g-dxf or g-iges on that file with sketch pritive support coded in .. edit somewhere else, then iges-g or dxf-g back and reload into .g
15:51.13brlcadahh, to replace the sketch menu code is all tclscripting
15:51.16brlcadsrc/tclscripts
15:51.20brlcadmged
15:52.20EricWilhelm/usr/local/brlcad/tclscripts/mged/ ?
15:54.33EricWilhelmis this all in some developer documentation that I should be reading?
15:55.32brlcadyes.. that's where tclscripts gets installed to
15:55.50brlcadit's basically a direct copy from src/tclscripts to $prefix/tclscripts
15:56.05brlcadwith a package index step in between
15:56.40brlcadThere's the HACKING file at the top level for general documentation .. for code-level, what you find is what you get
15:57.05brlcadfor the C library interfaces, there are manpages documentation
15:58.12brlcade.g. brlman libfb
15:58.51brlcadOh, and there's developer documentation from within mged on the help menu
15:59.18brlcadthere's a broad set of developer commands not listed in the general command set
16:04.05brlcadand of course feel free to drop questions in here .. it's a lot of code to get to, but generally easy to follow one piece at a time
16:10.16EricWilhelmhmm.  It sounds like it would only take a day or two to make qcad the sketcher.  Am I kidding myself?
16:13.25brlcadooh, very interesting idea
16:14.47brlcadactually that sounds fairly reasonable .. "hardest" part is going to be making sure that the converter is supporting the primitive in question
16:15.11brlcadand that's not really that hard .. just another case statement and a some writes
16:17.51EricWilhelmis there any "special" data in a sketch?  (e.g. named entities or "the legbone's connected to the thighbone" type stuff)
16:18.05EricWilhelmor, would randomly ordered connected lines work?
16:19.12brlcadto be honest, I don't recall
16:19.17EricWilhelmE.G. in other sketchers (pro-e, catia, inventor), you have constraints to model geometry, etc that can't be represented in dxf.
16:19.39brlcadthe geometry primitives as a datatype are defined in librt
16:20.29brlcadsrc/librt/g_sketch.c
16:21.13brlcadbrl-cad does not have explicit constraints (yet), so it sounds pretty safe to assume randomly ordered is fine
16:21.43brlcadconstraints are one of the funded todo items over the next year
16:26.55EricWilhelm<homer>hmm...  funded (drool...)</homer>
16:27.30EricWilhelmhow would a dumb cad program deal with constraints?
16:27.34brlcadso are a variety of other goodies
16:27.51EricWilhelmmaybe with a constraint editor? (external to both brlcad and the cad program?)
16:28.21EricWilhelme.g. it seems to me that the biggest problem with most sketchers is the inability to just throw-down some geometry
16:28.27brlcadwell, dumb cad program is most likely only supporting dumb cad format
16:28.42EricWilhelmthey all seem to want you to constrain it as you draw it
16:28.58brlcaduni and pro do, sure
16:29.15EricWilhelmmaybe Draft could grow-up to be a constaint-based drafting program
16:29.41brlcadlittle colored light telling you if you are fully/partially/un-constrained was a pita
16:29.56brlcadbut in the end, useful/good
16:30.08brlcadDraft is part of qcad?
16:30.12brlcador something else
16:30.35EricWilhelmit certainly isn't trying to work with a dumb cad format (this is Bruno's cddf prototype (http://bugbear.blackfish.org.uk/~bruno/draft/)
16:32.04brlcadhrm, i'll have to take a look at that
16:32.32brlcadi'd imagine the dumb cad modeler will have to smarten up some ;)
16:32.37EricWilhelmof course, with a cddf (cad directory database format), you could have a drawing editor running next to a constraint editor
16:33.23brlcadi see it more as making your values complex types, expressions
16:33.39brlcadyou need a consistent way to refer to other geometry
16:33.50brlcadand support for your basic math
16:34.30EricWilhelmrhizopod is the current uber-converter format, but doesn't have any facility for relational drafting, however it is probably the framework for the next level, which would be less static
16:36.13brlcadso instead of "radius == 3" .. it supports "radius == [box.corner.4.x * .3]
16:36.16EricWilhelmRight.  When you get relational, the endpoints, radii, etc. have to be expressed as formulas or functions.
16:36.17brlcador something
16:36.44EricWilhelmBut, I think that the rhizopod format lays a groundwork for what could be an addressable version.
16:37.25EricWilhelmAnd, with persistent entity ID's, I'm not sure that the drafting program ever has to worry about the formulas.
16:38.46EricWilhelme.g. if you can just scratch-out the geometry and then apply constraints in another program, the drafting program could just have a way to display constraints and lock values which cannot be modified directly (you can only change box.corner.4.x, not radius)
16:40.39brlcadthat would be good, I'd imagine you'd conversely want to allow direct access/modification of those constraints for packages that do have good constraint management (unigraphics, for example)
16:44.24EricWilhelmright, but with the cddf (let's say that the step after rhizopod is medusa (a jellyfish (complicated enough to hurt you, but still relatively simple))) both programs (in the two-program version) would be using the same data (but the drafting app would just see read-only files where the geometry is dependent)
16:44.51EricWilhelmso, the independent geometry in the medusa format is identical to static geometry in the rhizopod format
16:45.30EricWilhelmtherefore, a rhizopod drafting app can change any independent geometry, and a medusa-aware constraint editor can just handle constraints (but not draw anything)
16:45.57EricWilhelmok, so if you add drafting to the constraint editor, you get an all-in-one program that is a medusa editor
16:45.57brlcadand something like brl-cad that understands both could do both :)
16:46.06EricWilhelmright
16:46.43EricWilhelmbut does brlcad modify the sketch geometry or just use it?
16:47.01EricWilhelmsince brlcad is a csg editor, that's a few steps past medusa
16:48.26brlcadit reads/writes it and uses it
16:48.40brlcadit's just the editing capabilities are primitive
16:49.02EricWilhelmokay, so maybe brlcad's editing is limited to exporting faces of existing solids or something?
16:49.08brlcadbut once you have one, and it's extruded, it's just as fully useable as any of the other solids
16:49.17brlcadfor intersection analyses etc
16:49.24EricWilhelmsort of an interactive g2rhizopod
16:49.48EricWilhelmcreate->sketch->from_solid
16:50.17brlcadhrm
16:50.46EricWilhelms/g2rhizopod/g2medusa/
16:50.55brlcadthat would be interesting perhaps.. but right now the sketch (which is covered briefly in volume III or IV iirc)
16:51.23brlcadthe sketch is just a basic collection of spline curves thatdescribe an enclosed space
16:51.33brlcadyou extrude that space to form a useable solid object
16:51.56brlcadbbiab
16:53.26EricWilhelmI'll have to find some time and dig around a bit.  Making a way to use an external drafting program for sketches would be my first step.  That would give the uber-converter something to do (not that I have time or funding for the uber-converter right now...)
18:06.03*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~cc@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
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20:29.51*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.170.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
20:30.12PhantomBantamHello.
20:30.58janohowdy
20:32.16PhantomBantamAny idea when the mac binary will be posted?
20:37.22janohe'll know
20:43.27PhantomBantamOkay.
22:24.22*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050114

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050114

00:09.47*** join/#brlcad XEN (~XEN@d198-166-22-94.abhsia.telus.net)
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01:46.08*** join/#brlcad dssl (~dssl@69-162-16-128.stcgpa.adelphia.net)
01:49.34dsslAnyone fixed the 'make install' problem on OS X?
01:58.16dsslAnyone fixed the 'make install' problem on OS X?
02:44.10brlcaddssl: yes
02:45.13brlcaddssl: there will be a new source download perhaps as early as this weekend, as well as a mac binary install available
02:45.29dsslfrom the sf site?
02:48.00dssla binary will be great....
02:49.13brlcaddssl: yes, it will be posted to the sf site
02:49.32brlcadif you'd like immediate notification, feel free to subscribe to the brlcad-news mailing list
02:49.44brlcada notice will be posted once it's available
02:51.19janobork
02:52.39brlcadheya
02:57.39*** join/#brlcad dssl (~dssl@69-162-16-128.stcgpa.adelphia.net)
02:57.52dsslI get:
02:57.52dsslMaking install in include make[2]: Nothing to be done for `install-exec-am'. /opt/brlcad70/include/brlcad make[2]: /opt/brlcad70/include/brlcad: Command not found make[2]: *** [install-brlcadincludeHEADERS] Error 127 make[1]: *** [install-am] Error 2 make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1
02:58.01dsslduring make install
02:58.08dsslis there a simple fix?
02:59.01brlcadhave you checked out the sources from CVS or are you using the source tarball?
02:59.31dsslI got the source from source forge (not cvs)....
03:00.30brlcadhow did you try to compile?
03:00.41brlcad./configure && make && make install, I assume?
03:01.16dsslI followed the direction on the scitech list...
03:01.33brlcadhrm
03:01.33dsslwith an ./autoconfig in there
03:01.39brlcad./autogen.sh you mean
03:01.47dsslyea...
03:02.08brlcadhrm.  I suggest you try CVS then.. a few fixes are already in place
03:02.19dsslokay...
03:02.24brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
03:02.32brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad co -P brlcad
03:02.53brlcadif you already have a brlcad dir.. move it out of the way
03:05.50dsslI'm assuming the rm db/*.g is no longer necessary
03:05.57brlcadcorrect
03:09.35dsslstill need the autogen?
03:09.40brlcadyes
03:13.16dsslFYI
03:13.18dssl[dssl:/tmp/brlcad] eric% ./autogen.sh head: 1: No such file or directory ./autogen.sh: line 72: [: -lt: unary operator expected ./autogen.sh: line 74: [: -lt: unary operator expected Found GNU Autoconf version .  tail: 1: No such file or directory Automatically preparing build ... done  The BRL-CAD build system is now prepared.  To build here, run:   ./configure   make
03:14.34brlcadthat's okay
03:15.00dsslI figured since it finished.
03:17.06brlcadrecent change caused that
03:17.17brlcadtrying to accommodate more platforms
03:21.23dssljust started the build
03:23.40brlcadthere have been lots of recent changes back and forth so cvs isn't exactly reliable just yet -- but hopefully enough for you ;)
03:23.59brlcadif not, post the error.. getting the mac build is usally really easy
03:36.19*** join/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
03:47.32dsslcompiled and installed fine this time!
03:49.01dsslSummary: Abs     dssl.mne.psu.edu        235448.68       121407.71       105780.34      85302.61 116894.03       127437.84       132045.20       Thu Jan 13 22:48:29 EST 2005 *vgr    dssl.mne.psu.edu        1718.47 1810.43 1886.57 1598.62 1653.61 8.59   1446.04
03:49.16brlcadexcellent
03:49.45*** join/#brlcad jerwin (~jeremy@66-44-57-179.s433.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com)
03:49.54brlcadnot a bad benchmark number too
03:50.40brlcaddssl, if you want even better performance, make clean and then ./configure --enable-optimized && make again
03:50.57jerwin'm having difficulty running brlcad on a mac. Something about XInputExtension...
03:51.16brlcadjerwin: xinputextension is a warning
03:52.23jerwinyeah? well, it crashes when I select "ogl" mode
03:53.08brlcadcrashes?? you have a crash log?
03:53.45jerwinchecking...
03:54.09dsslit's a 2ghz dp g5
03:54.18dssltrying the optimized...
03:54.42dsslunfortunately my xlc trial expired
03:54.45brlcaddssl: the last number of the vgr line is the one to pay attention to really
03:55.28brlcadit's an average summary multipler of how much faster you are than the base metric
04:02.50jerwinwhen I run mged -n, it asks "attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]? "
04:03.16jerwinthe ogl option will crash X11.app
04:04.12jerwinthe X option will not.
04:04.52brlcadwhich X11 do you have?
04:04.58brlcadversion-wise
04:05.53jerwin1.0: XFree86 4.3.0
04:06.00brlcadahh
04:06.07brlcadthat's why
04:06.36brlcadif i'm not mistaken, apple released an update some time ago, no?
04:07.39jerwinnot quite sure. It came with Panther.
04:10.16brlcadhrm..
04:10.38brlcadwould you send me your crash log?
04:10.52brlcadshould be in Library/Logs/CrashReporter/mged.log
04:10.56brlcador something similar
04:14.03learneri take it back.. 1.0 should be fine
04:14.09learnerso crash log would be good..
04:14.14learnerwhat's your video card too?
04:14.29jerwinbrlcad, your sourceforge account?
04:22.45jerwinok, I've sent it off.
04:23.09jerwinBTW, brlcad, what's your relationship with brl?
04:38.24dsslSummary: Abs     dssl.mne.psu.edu        461783.23       252706.49       218983.86      179788.52        243547.31       249737.74       267757.85       Thu Jan 13 23:38:08 EST 2005 *vgr    dssl.mne.psu.edu        3370.43 3768.36 3905.54 3369.35 3445.28 16.84  2979.30
04:38.42dssldoubled!
04:44.32*** part/#brlcad dssl (~dssl@69-162-16-128.stcgpa.adelphia.net)
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05:30.32*** join/#brlcad dad (dad@dialup-4.176.132.48.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
05:30.39dadhey, all!
05:50.02dadanyone around to answer a question?
06:05.55noybhi dad
06:07.31noybif you ask the question there's a better chance of getting it answered...  ;)
06:29.51*** join/#brlcad dad_ (dad@dialup-4.176.42.253.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net)
06:30.12dad_nyob: i combuned several primitives, each one will show in a raytrace, but the object doesn't show up in a raytrace
06:30.30dad_howcome?
06:31.18dad_i've tried all sorts of things...
06:38.05dad_never mind, i think i found it
06:40.57dad_nope
06:41.05dad_puzzeling...
06:46.28dad_i have 6 rpc's from the build pattern tool (cyllinder) u a cylinder - another cylinder (the hole in the middle of a sprocket). each rpc shows in a raytrace, each cyllinder shows in a raytrace, but when i draw the object, and raytrace it, the screen is blank (even with default shaders and such)
06:51.48*** join/#brlcad CIA-3 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)
06:55.52learnerdad_; paste the l of the region
06:59.46dad_l?
06:59.56learnertype "who" :)
07:00.09dad_ok
07:00.27learnershould see the name(s) of the objects displayed
07:00.28dad_sprocket2.s
07:00.40learnerjust the one?
07:00.49dad_it's a comb
07:01.03learner.s is conventionally used to mean a primitive "solid" .. not a combination/region
07:01.13dad_oops
07:01.17learnerregardless..  "l sprocket2.s"
07:01.45dad_mged> l sprocket2.s
07:01.45dad_sprocket2.s:  --
07:01.45dad_<PROTECTED>
07:01.45dad_<PROTECTED>
07:01.45dad_<PROTECTED>
07:01.46dad_<PROTECTED>
07:01.48dad_<PROTECTED>
07:01.52dad_<PROTECTED>
07:01.53dad_<PROTECTED>
07:01.55dad_<PROTECTED>
07:02.06learnerah, :)
07:02.14dad_ah?
07:02.15learneryou're intersecting all those s0's
07:02.34dad_ok
07:02.43learnerwhat is s34?
07:02.52dad_actually each intersects with s34
07:02.58dad_a cyllinder
07:03.33learneractually only s0_1 is if I recall the stack rules correctly
07:03.46learnerso the rest of the intersections are with the result of that first intersection
07:03.49learnerleaving you with nothing
07:04.50learneri even continue to get the rules backwards, so I could be mistaken -- but that would explain your situation
07:05.22learnerso s34 is a large cylinder
07:06.08learnerand the s0's are smaller rpcs and s35 is the hole in the middle..
07:06.39dad_yes, well larger than the DI of the other items placed in a circle
07:06.58dad_yes
07:07.01learnercan you post your .g somewhere?
07:07.11dad_i can try to
07:07.12learnerperhaps ftp it up to ftp.brlcad.org
07:07.42dad_i'd be glad to. do i have access?
07:09.02dad_in incomming?
07:09.05learneryes
07:10.03dad_that would be test6.g
07:10.08learnerk
07:11.57dad_there's an s0 and a s0_7 that i haven't killed, and a few other trys at the same thing, but the idea is a 6 tooth sprocket with a hole in the middle of it
07:12.57dad_do i need to union each s0 with the s34?
07:13.12learnerfrom what you describe, yes
07:13.19learnerthey're unions, not intersections
07:13.23dad_K
07:13.28learneri'll know here in a sec ;)
07:13.49dad_i thought i tried that
07:38.41noybsee ya...
07:38.59*** part/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
07:39.01dad_noyb: laterz...
07:39.05learnerdad_, ooh, pretty :)
07:39.09dad_have a nice nite
07:39.14dad_:)
07:39.27dad_did it work for you?
07:39.51learneryeah.. so that should be one solid component with a hole in it, yes?
07:39.58dad_yes
07:40.14learneryeah, that's not intersections then
07:40.23learneryou shouldn't have any intersections with that geometry
07:40.42dad_ok
07:41.07dad_all unions and a subtraction
07:41.46dad_is there a diference between the c command and the comb command?
07:41.48learnerright
07:42.06learnerthere's a slight syntactic difference, but otherwise no
07:42.44dad_ok
07:43.55dad_off i go, to work on more of it... (a 'hub' and a threaded hole :) once i get this part to work...
07:50.42learnerpretty nifty really
07:50.49learnerwhat are you building?
07:58.54dad_i'm just building parts for now. a sprocket here, a gear there
07:59.25dad_but haven't had a whole lot of success - there's a prety steep learning curve :)
08:00.29learnerit is a lot to get into and learn
08:00.33learnerlarge command set
08:00.55dad_and raytracing sometimes locks brlcad (i suspect thete's something wrong with my drawing :)
08:01.59dad_actually, i'm not a cad drafter by trade, but have done drafting on a small scale
08:02.23learnerit "shouldn't" .. if you have a .g that does it consistently from a certain view, feel free to run "saveview whatever.rt" and post the whatever.rt and the .g to sf.net bug tracker
08:28.26dad_K
08:28.34dad_i got it working ...
08:28.46learnersweet!
08:28.57dad_hade a 'hub' with the 2 cyllinders
08:29.06dad_then you the teeth
08:29.13dad_oops 'u'
08:29.27dad_damned auto complete
08:29.56learner:)
08:30.14dad_noe for a screw hole...
08:30.52learnermm.. threads on a screw is getting into rather serious geometry quickly
08:31.01learnerhave you read volume III any?
08:32.11dad_oh, yes i know... vol III i haven't even read vol I - just the html that builds with brlcad
08:32.28learnerahh
08:32.52dad_where do i find these vol's?
08:32.58learnerhtml is fine, albeit older and not as thought out as the volumes
08:33.06learnerhttp://brlcad.org/
08:33.14dad_K
08:33.18learnerlisted right there for now
08:33.28dad_will go there, read learn, apply, repete
08:33.49learnerthe first link is the pieces of volume I that were relevant post-open-sourcing
08:34.13learnervol II through IV are there in their entirety, though
08:34.37dad_oh! the big pdf's
08:35.26learnervol II is the beginner's intro to mged.. slew of gruesome (albeit simple) tutorials
08:35.48learnerthat do what they can to prepare you for the semblance of real csg modeling in volumes II and iV
08:35.52learnerer, III
08:36.20learnerreal as in really complex, that is too :)
08:36.27dad_i should read them...
08:37.34dad_o noticed the complexity _> opened some of the included .g files (the tank, helecopter, etc...)
08:38.06learner:)
08:38.33dad_oh, that's not too bad - 45 minuites for the good stuff
08:38.35learnerthose are still relatively simple models
08:39.23learnerhavoc.g is probably the most complicated included database
08:39.29learnerand it's "okay"
08:39.57learnerthe walkie-talkie in volume III is a great model .. nice detail
08:40.16learnernice and complicated with articulations even
08:40.44dad_who made all those?
08:40.57learnervarious modelers
08:41.14dad_ok
08:41.18learnerthe ones in db/ are a wide set of people over the years
08:42.14learnerthere are a couple people that are pretty much the expert modelers that get involved in the more "real" geometries
08:43.12learnerI can get you in touch with one of them if there's a modeling question I can't answer
08:51.45dad_k, i'll muddle thru some of the stuff for now, and read/learn/repete
09:02.07learnermaybe you'll become our first open source brl-cad csg expert ;)
09:03.51learnerby the way, as you're going along .. if you care to keep track of things that are really confusing, buggy, frustrating, very unexpected, etc .. that's very useful for future interface planning
09:06.42*** join/#brlcad smokin1 (~smokin3@h69-128-202-217.69-128.unk.tds.net)
09:07.25smokin1hi. anyone home?
09:11.27dad_learner - will do :)
09:11.36learner=)
09:11.38learnersmokin1, nope :)
09:12.07dad_smokin1: i'm here as well, but i don't know much
09:12.26smokin1ok then, i'll just talk to the walls...  usually works.
09:13.02learnerworks for me
09:13.06learneri like talking to myself too sometimes
09:13.18smokin1you two typing this on unix or did you actully get it to work on a win macnine?
09:13.38learneri've run it on windows
09:13.45learnerbut right now, I'm on os x
09:14.19learnerthere are various windows efforts on-going right now -- the code is pretty much ported (at least for the major binaries)
09:14.53smokin1but i'm guessing you got to pice and hack it together to get it to compile?
09:15.55learneractually there's an msdev studio project (not in cvs yet)
09:16.17learnergetting it to compile otherwise is painful (but one of the long-term routes)
09:16.31learnere.g. msys/mingw/cygwin
09:17.03learneri've heard of a couple people trying their hand at getting cygwin build to work
09:17.59learnermsdev studio files will likely get included down the road, but we'll need to pick up someone willing to keep them maintained
09:20.10smokin1probably not a task for someone whose c programming career consists of "hello world" ?
09:22.08dad_lol
09:23.31smokin1oh yeah, go ahead and laugh at the poor sap who hoped to magically find a binary lying around in the irc
09:25.04dad_heh! my machine is gasping for memory
09:25.44dad_@1/2 a gig, i maxed it out on the pattern tool! soo azmuths and 300 heights
09:26.14dad_oops s/soo/300
09:26.54dad_and then i ask to dosplay it in 'multi-plane view...
09:27.13dad_is that 900* 4?
09:27.55dad_~900*4
09:27.56ibot3600
09:28.24dad_3600 arb6's...
09:28.33dad_:)
09:28.58smokin1http://ftp.arl.mil/brlcad/downloads/Rel6.1DP/brlcad.exe
09:29.07learnersmokin1, heh, actually you might be able to get somewhere useful, but it's not simple to say the least
09:29.46smokin1anyone know about that address? it gives me a 404, but claims to contain a win 2000/NT binary
09:29.49learnersmokin1, yes, that's an early beta
09:29.59smokin1i'd take that
09:30.04learnerheh :)
09:30.04smokin1ain't pickey
09:30.09learneri'm sure you would :)
09:30.25learnerI'll think about it
09:30.38learnerit's woefully bugged
09:31.08learnerI'd hate to see the same bug reports dozens of times over for things that were fixed almost two years ago
09:32.14learnerand it's missing a lot and is now quite out of date
09:32.47learnerif you can wait a couple weeks, there's a group tasked to solidify the windows port
09:33.29learnercourse .. a couple of gov't weeks often are not merely a couple -- can't promise
09:34.13learneralmost as likely that someone will finish the msys port about the same time
09:39.30smokin1oh well, i guess i'll just wait.
09:40.15smokin1i'd like to get back into c, but i think i'll jump back in on a project with something less than 3/4 million lines of code.
09:40.27learneryou'll probably be may more interested in the other things this group is going for window regardless
09:40.56learnerporting a massive unix-based package to the windows environment is not probalby what you're used to
09:41.40learnersmokin1, don't let the size scare you off -- it's actually over 400 separate small projects really
09:42.12learnermost of those are really strait-forward to understand
09:42.59learnerthe src/proc-db/ model generators, for example, are great computer graphics and programming exercises that are pretty darn easy to follow
09:43.22learnereasy to write a little bit of code that outputs a model procedurally
09:47.47smokin1are you one of the admins on the project?
09:48.15learneryes
09:49.56smokin1ya don't say...
09:50.40smokin1i've seen that handle quite a bit on many a google search
09:50.55learnerheh
09:51.14learnerso you're looking for the answers to some of the same things I am? :)
09:51.41smokin1no, i'm looking for the answers to the stuff you already know ;)
09:53.25learnerheh, shame it doesn't feel like that most of the time :)
09:55.14smokin1i'm guessing you're military?
10:39.55*** part/#brlcad smokin1 (~smokin3@h69-128-202-217.69-128.unk.tds.net)
11:02.28dad_nite. all!
12:15.37*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
13:07.18tjyanglearner you here ?
14:02.43learneryes although sleepy
14:12.56tjyangnew ETA on 7.0.3 realease ?
14:13.35tjyangor 7.0.4 ?
14:16.19*** join/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
14:18.58*** join/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
14:30.34learnertjyang this weekend
14:30.40learner7.0.4
14:30.47learner7.0.3 is a CVS version
14:34.07tjyangthanks, does 7.0.3 fix the compiling on solaris ?
14:40.00learnerthere not commited yet
14:42.15tjyangok, I come back and check on Monday.
14:54.30learnerokie dokie
18:49.48*** join/#brlcad starseeker (~starseeke@ip68-106-90-53.hr.hr.cox.net)
20:11.02*** join/#brlcad stafa77 (~stafa77@d47-69-48-142.nap.wideopenwest.com)
20:15.40stafa77I am trying to compile BRL-CAD on Cygwin.  I'm getting an error.  Can anyone help me out?
20:31.09a_b_normalhttp://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/  <-- read the fine print, #2
20:38.32*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.76.123.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
22:29.00learnerstafa77, what's the error, I can try to help
22:33.24a_b_normalthat's one major ping
22:33.28a_b_normal:)
22:34.02learner;)
22:35.40a_b_normal:(
22:36.12learnerahh, i know that addy =)
22:54.19starseekerlearner:  Any luck with the pro-engineer make files?
22:55.25learneryeah, I think I have it fixed
22:59.24starseekercool :-)
22:59.30starseekeris it in cvs?
22:59.39learnernot yet
22:59.46learnerlater tonight hopefully
22:59.52starseekerCool.  Thanks :-)
23:00.13starseekerI dunno if I'll be able to test it this weekend (kinda busy) but ASAP I'll give it a whirl
23:00.19starseekerwhat was it?
23:00.39learneryeah.. this is a busy weekend :)
23:00.58learnerbrl-cad pushed back bzflag's major release, which will likely happen this weekend
23:01.04learnerfinally
23:01.07starseeker:-)
23:01.25starseekeryin and yang - productivity and anti-productivity ;-)
23:01.31learner:)
23:04.09starseekerDid it need some more $(DESTDIR) statements?
23:04.34learnerneeded to be made non-deterministic via configure
23:04.41learnerso that destdir can be used
23:04.48starseekerAh.  Harder :-)
23:05.00learnerjust a slight reworking
23:05.16starseekerGentoo:  finding make bugs no one else in the known universe cares about :-/
23:06.07a_b_normalhahaha
23:06.59starseekerI know of almost no other circumstance where this would matter - if the user installs it's not an issue, if it's a package it's already handled.
23:07.39learnerit's good to have it fixed, though
23:07.42learnerit was "wrong"
23:07.45starseeker:-)
23:07.53learnerthanks for finding it
23:08.20starseekerMy pleasure :-).  Just trying to add a great piece of software to gentoo
23:09.00starseekerHeh - I wish I could have seen my face when I read that slashdot announcement
23:09.09learnerheh
23:09.49starseekerIt was one of the better places to announce, methinks
23:09.53learnerif you only knew what I had to go through to make it happen..
23:10.38learnerheck that announcement paragraph itself took almost two weeks to get approved
23:10.41starseekerI can imagine.  Bill Schelter had to do something similar, and Maxima is just a mathematics program.  We have a label warning about export restrictions possibly applying he was asked to add
23:11.19starseekerAnd Maxiam, AFAIK, hasn't been used to design tanks ;-)
23:12.12starseekerYou deserve some kind of award for making it happen
23:12.48learnertanks are fun :)
23:13.19starseekerHeh - you probably didn't see the response to my post about it in forums.gentoo.org?
23:13.36learnerI don't follow the gentoo forums
23:13.56starseekerhttp://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=141832&start=75
23:14.11starseekerlast couple posts on the page
23:15.31starseekerHmm - a new post.  Does brl-cad work on 64 bit chips?
23:16.08learnerhaha
23:16.20starseekerthought you might ;-)
23:16.28learneroh heck yes it does
23:16.44starseekerCool - someone's asking about it for 64 bit gentoo
23:16.51starseekertoo bad I can't test on that platform
23:18.06learneryes, it would require testing to validate the 64-bitness, but brl-cad already runs and has been tested on 64-bit irix, aix, and irix's 64-bit linux
23:18.20starseekerNifty.
23:18.31learnermm.. i'd love to get brl-cad going on the compile farm
23:18.47learnerwe used to have internal compile farms running.. been a while
23:19.00starseekerHehe - if you become a debian package that's a lot of platforms right there
23:19.15starseekerThey had XFree86 running on more platforms than it was written for
23:21.18learnerdebian's given me more headaches than any other platform
23:21.31starseekerI can believe that too :-(
23:21.58learnerI believe woody is either misconfigured in regards to automake+libtool, or it's rather bugged
23:22.25learneri've gotten a patch to review from a debian user that i'll check out before releas
23:22.42learnerbrl-cad'
23:23.05learnerhas always run on pretty much anything we could get our hands on..
23:23.33learnerofficially, only a handful are "funded" for support
23:23.50learnerwhich are basically the ones needed internally
23:24.07starseekerright - I was wondering if the Army actually needed so many platforms supported
23:24.11learnergetting it to run on the vax was tough -- cray too
23:24.50learnerthose both predate me, though I've re-attempted to revive a vax build just a couple years ago
23:25.07starseekereeeeeeeeeeeekk  Vax still lives?
23:25.34learnerwe have a wide range of machines.. desktops/workstations.. supercomputers.. various flavors of unix
23:25.47starseekerSounds like a neat place to work
23:26.35learnerno, the vax was decommissioned several years ago, but the historic computing project has a complete software emulation that is the same
23:27.06starseekerCool.
23:27.21starseekerGood way to learn about software that only survives as binaries
23:27.39learnertook the better part of a saturday, but I had the boot prom loaded, disks attached, and was installing bsd and brl-cad shortly thereafter
23:28.59starseekerWow.
23:30.12starseekerHmm, supper might be a good thing.  Thanks learner!  I'll let you know the results once the new pro-engineer stuff is tested on gentoo
23:30.27learnerokay :)
23:30.49learnerI'll let you have first dibs on testing 7.0.4 since working on gentoo is a priority
23:30.59starseekerThanks :-)
23:31.09starseekerIt's a priority?
23:31.49learneryes, on my "must do" list
23:31.59starseekerHah!  Take that Redhat! :-P
23:32.27starseekerOr I guess it's Fedora Core now
23:32.33learneri want to get it cleanly building on gentoo, debian, mac os x, rhlinux, freebsd, irix, and irix 64 this release
23:33.06learnergentoo overtook redhat a long time ago (except in business)
23:33.26learnerperhaps even debian.. haven't seen the stats recently
23:33.44learnerdebian maintainer is shooting the project in the head with this drawn out releases
23:33.58starseekerThe thing with gentoo is - because you build everything on the system, you have a VERY good development environment
23:34.06starseekerYes, Debian can be very annoying
23:34.31learnerthen next release will probably activate the windows support .. or at least provide some test binaries
23:34.54starseekerHeh - prepare for a whole new level of annoyance
23:35.14starseekerAlmost without exception, the most painful part of releasing for both Axiom and Maxima has been Windows
23:35.49learnerwe've had windows betas for years now.. just no time to polish it up until recently
23:36.01learner(funded time)
23:36.33starseekerWell, that does help.  But still... what a messed up environment.  Especially if you want to support Win98-WinXP
23:36.35learnerand win* is so way low on my priority list to be on "my time" as most of this is
23:37.25starseekerYeah - all Windows gets you is users ;-P  
23:37.54starseekerReally - the Army didn't fund Windows development?
23:38.04learneri'm quite comfortable only supporting xp for now -- let a windows dev step forward to pick up it's maintenance like you did to get brl-cad in gentoo
23:38.10learner(which I still can't thank you enough)
23:38.37starseekerMy pleasure.  There are several people who would like gentoo to become the "scientific linux" platform of choice
23:38.48starseekerand we certainly can't be that without brl-cad ;-)
23:39.04learnerbrl-cad's been a unix program nearly it's entire life -- the original architect was one of the bsd foundation architects
23:39.14starseekerWow.
23:39.30a_b_normalthe guy that invented ping, right? :(
23:39.37learneryep
23:39.49learneramazing man
23:39.55a_b_normalyeah
23:40.36starseekerSomeday it would be interesting if Nova or somebody did an indepth series on the history of computer software
23:40.36learnerthat's not even considering any classified work he may have worked on and made major impacts on
23:41.10starseekerThere's a rich human story behind the screen.  
23:41.51starseekerOr better yet, the history channel - they might actually take it seriously
23:43.31starseekerWell, time to eat something besides valentines candy ;-)
23:43.36starseekerlater all!
23:43.42learnercya
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050115

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050115

00:50.34starseekerburp
01:07.27a_b_normalthe official thing for brlcad is bork
01:07.30a_b_normalnot burp
01:07.32a_b_normalor poke
01:07.34a_b_normalbork
01:07.40a_b_normal:)
01:07.57a_b_normal:(
01:10.43starseekerHeh - just had dinner
01:10.52starseekerhence burp :-)
01:11.43starseekerlearner:  I don't suppose you guys are going to try and con some university engineering departments into funding work on brl-cad?
01:14.31learnerheh, funding?  not directly anytime soon
01:14.38learnerperhaps indirectly through student contributions
01:15.05learnerbrl-cad's been used in graphics and CAD classes at several universities over the years
01:15.12learnerit's particularly well suited to computer graphics classes
01:15.23learneradding a new primitive, for example .. fun
01:15.32starseekerCool.  Ah, so it's already got a good enough UI for the classes.  Well, there goes that idea...
01:15.55learnerteaches CSG better than most any
01:16.05starseekerOh, I was going to ask you - you said the "wire mesh" 2D display didn't make much sense for brl-cad?  or somebody did?
01:16.05learnersince most modelers have gone the brep path
01:16.14starseekerbrep?
01:16.27learnerboundary representation modeling
01:16.30starseekerah.
01:17.10learnerwire mesh 2d display? .. i said something related to that, but not really that :)
01:17.25starseekerOh - what did you say?  Sorry
01:17.33learnerit's not well suited (yet) for drafting and CAM work until someone adds more functionality
01:17.46starseekerOh, OK.  
01:17.56starseekerBut it can in theory be added?
01:18.00learnerso things like autocad sketchings don't really come over to solid modeling very well
01:18.10learnersure, it can be added pretty easily
01:18.20starseekercool.  I smell a grad student project ;-)
01:18.44learnerwe just have no use for it in our domain, so it was never added
01:19.00starseekerhehe - AutoCAD doomed by students - film at eleven
01:20.22starseekerAlthough I guess Pro/E and Solidworks would be the more useful functionality to target?
01:21.20learnerbetter markets.. though drafting for cam purposes is interesting
01:22.38starseekerIn some ways it's too bad Solidworks appeared - with $70k a seat for something like Pro/E, it might have been rather easy to get companies to develop brl-cad
01:23.29learneri don't mind the competition.. it was needed for the industry
01:23.55learnerthough solidworks was just a union of several other cad companies trying to consolidate for profit and to fight the other guys
01:24.05starseekerAh.
01:25.01starseekerStill, it would have been fun to see the Pro/E guys' reaction to the price for CAD suddenly dropping from $70k to 0
01:25.07learnerI want to take BRL-CAD in more directions than they are able to, though, and out-innovate them with new features
01:25.14learnermodel life inside out
01:25.24starseekerlife ~= chaos
01:25.31learnermulti-user collaborations
01:26.13starseekerWell, if there is any justice at all you should be swarmed
01:26.19learnerthere's a lot of solidification and cumulation of existing features into a unified framework needed for starters, though
01:27.05starseekerSo you guys are still funded for continued development of brl-cad?
01:27.59learnerindeed
01:28.18starseekerawesome
01:28.27starseekerthat puts you FAR ahead of most open source projects
01:28.37learnerthis was never an abandonware event ala our other government friends
01:29.11starseekerIncredible.  That in itself is worth a news story
01:34.09CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: special thanks regarding gentoo ebuild
01:35.18starseekeruh - you're welcome?  Did it work for you?
01:35.45learnerjust preparing the sources for when i get to that step before I forget
01:35.59starseekerAh :-)
01:36.05starseekerWhat's CIA-3?
01:37.30learnerCIA announces source code changes in real time to irc channels
01:37.41starseekerCool!!
01:37.45learneralso archives changes and calculates commit statistics to a web site
01:37.52starseekerVery cool
01:38.17learnerfriend of mine set that up.. most projects on freenode use it
01:38.30learnercia.navi.cx
01:38.51learnergentoo's been busy today :)
01:39.26learnerlooks like the day just turned
01:39.40starseekerhow's that?
01:41.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: oops, that dash wasn't intended or desired for head/tail
01:41.28learnerhttp://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/gentoo
01:41.33starseekerAh.
01:41.56starseekerlordy lu
01:42.13starseekerthem keyboards are a-clickin
01:42.51learner<PROTECTED>
01:42.58learnerfor all projects
01:43.09learnersometimes busy, sometimes not
01:43.54starseekerHeh - looks like the US contingent is mostly out partying or something ;-)
01:44.00starseekerwhoop, there we go
01:44.13learnerit's pretty quiet for a friday night actually..
01:44.28learnerprobably battlestar galactica premiere to be honest..
01:44.34starseekerHehehe
01:44.44starseekerAh, the joys of not having a TV...
01:45.02learnerahh
01:45.08learneri gave up tv for many many years
01:45.37starseekerHeh - my girlfriend has mine, because the car was too full to fit the bugger when I moved.
01:45.37learnernow it's an occasional even for movies, stargate, farscape, and simpsons ;)
01:45.55starseeker:-) The classics
01:46.21starseekerCuriously enough, I'm not really a Simpson's fan, but I've got three of the four seasons of Futurama and want the fourth
01:47.01learnergood stuff
01:47.35starseekerYes, I've never figured out how Fox can produce such good cartoons and such bad news
01:47.44starseekerit's like a split personality or something
01:48.50starseekerUh-oh, another openoffice-ximian commit today I see.  Great, there goes fourteen hours or so of CPU time
01:49.12starseekerIt'll have to wait till after brl-cad 7.0.4 though
01:49.51learnerheh
01:50.41starseekerI never, never read the change logs for openoffice-ximian or kde.  I really don't want to know I just rebuilt everything for a minor update of something only needed on another platform or in rare useage
01:51.07learner:)
01:51.44starseeker:-)  any new flags?
01:51.59learnerseveral
01:52.11starseekerwho regularly gets his butt eaten for lunch
01:52.16learnerwings is probably the most impacting
01:52.27starseekerYay :-)
01:52.31learneryou can turn while mid air and if the server is configured flap endlessly
01:52.39learnerso.. fly around in your tank
01:52.49starseekerand die from GM :-)
01:53.14learnerseveral new bad flags
01:53.22starseekerHmm - brl-cad, used to model tanks.  bzflag, tank combat game.  Coincidence? ;-)
01:53.33learner;)
01:53.49starseekerFunny, a lot of the people I run into on bzflag are gentoo guys
01:53.54learnerthey really want me to write a g2bzw :)
01:54.07learnercould make brl-cad bzflag's primary modeler
01:54.15starseekersweet!
01:54.48starseekerI don't suppose there is an armor flag that can bounce a few of the enemy's shots back at them?
01:59.33learnerheh
02:00.07learnerthat's a harder one.. woul need means to graphically show that.. like a shield sphere
02:00.26learnerstill easy.. but not a 10 minute tweak
02:00.45starseekertrue :-)  Don't worry, that was just wishful thinking
02:01.28learnercareful what you wish for :)
02:03.03starseekerHehe.  Uh oh
02:06.49starseekerWell, as long as I'm making trouble - I've always thought a Targeter flag would be fun - press T or Enter or something and you are instantly flipped to be facing (i.e. targeting) your nearest opponent.
02:07.12learnerheh
02:07.18starseekerBut I think that one would be hard because the game would need to know your nearest opponent, check for stealth blocking, etc.
02:08.27starseekerSorry, wandering off topic
02:08.42learnerheh, don't worry about topic :)
02:12.04starseekerGotta admit though, I always like the old standby - Rapid Fire :-)
02:12.23learnertis a powerful flag
02:12.35starseekerparticularly since it messes with people's timing
02:12.43learnerwhich in part inspired one of the new bad flags.. trigger happy
02:12.50starseekerUh oh :-)
02:12.51learnertank unloads all your shots as fast as it can
02:12.54starseekerhahaha
02:12.57starseekersweet
02:13.21learnerlike running around with an uzi set to "on"
02:14.01starseekerGosh - that would turn that one 100 shot map into sheer madness
02:16.45starseekerYou know, a "Rigged" flag might be fun - if you shoot you kill yourself, but your explosion has a chance to take out anybody within SW radius - friend or foe
02:17.06starseekerAlright, I should stop eating whatever I ate this evening
02:17.20learnermultiflags and configurable flags are what I'm planning next
02:17.29starseekerCOOOL :-)
02:17.46learnerso you could have shield.. with 10 shots for example
02:17.56learneror laser and wings
02:18.02learneretc
02:18.13starseekerOn wings, can you only shoot in the plain at which you are hovering?
02:18.24learnerhave to disallow various combinations that would be too powerful like stealth+cloak
02:18.30starseekerNo kidding
02:18.41starseekerOnly Seer would stand a chance
02:19.31starseekerYou guys must be so sick of hearing flag ideas ;-)
02:19.40learnershots always go out on the plane/elevation you shoot from unless inertial shots are turned on
02:19.50learnerso if you're falling, your shots do too
02:19.58learnerheh
02:20.12learneryeah, we get a lot of flag suggeestions
02:21.15starseekerI must say you guys have done a tremendous job
02:21.55learnersome past ideas:  http://bzflag.org/wiki/FlagList
02:24.01starseekerShould I go ahead and throw mine on there if they aren't already up?
02:24.09learnersure, go ahead
02:26.09starseekerHeh - too bad they said no to the dumb missle
02:29.01learnersome of the "no" were very contingent on the descriptions
02:29.13learnerand could be considerable under some situations
02:29.29starseekerAh.  So the "never" are the big no-nos
02:30.01learneryeah
02:30.10learnerthe simple no's are often "i don't like that idea"
02:30.20starseekerAh :-)
02:30.48learnerthere have been various shockwave blast  round flags that have come up and been deemed possible
02:31.01starseekerHow does it work for server setup - if people want to add "custom" flags, do they need to do it at the source level?
02:31.42learneryou have to modify both the server and the client to add flags
02:31.56starseekerAh.
02:31.57learnerconfiguration of existing flags can be done any time
02:32.06learnerlike making shockwave enormous and slow
02:32.15starseeker:-)
02:33.02starseekerI don't suppose it would be of interest to have a server "select" flag options on startup, and have the client download them?  Or does the engine need modification for some flags to work?
02:34.48learnerthey need to work together
02:34.55learnerotherwise there are protocol and versioning issues
02:35.04starseekerAh.  Figured.
02:42.11starseekerHeh - you guys need a bugzilla for flags
02:43.17starseekerFair number of duplicates
02:43.44learneryeah, we only glance at it every few months when someone's motivated to actually add a flag
02:44.06starseekerDo patches get more consideration that wiki suggestions?
02:44.14learnerthere's so much other stuff that needs to get taken care of that the flags themselves are relatively low priority
02:44.36starseekerHeh - responsible game developers :-).  Whoda figured? ;-)
02:44.41learneroh heck yes.. if it's implemented it's reviewed a little more quickly usually
02:44.55learnerunless it's a flag suggestion that would have been a "no/never"
02:45.27starseekerHmm.  Just out of curosity, why not add them and then let the server activate/deactivate them?
02:45.38starseekerunless they're something offensive or some such
02:47.10learnerbecause that ends up being code that has to be verified across all the platforms, changed when interfaces change (which happens a lot), maintained, etc.. all takes up time and effort
02:47.22starseekerAh.
02:47.40learnerand if it's a feature that's "destructive" to the nature of the game.. that's baggage that one generally doesn't want to carry
02:47.44starseekerAs you can tell, I don't do much game development ;-)
02:47.51starseekerdefinitely true
02:48.06learneryou can't take everyone's idea .. simply too many various ideas
02:48.37starseekerVery true
02:48.53learnersome would have it become quake, some would have it become pong, some would have it become a web browser.. with as wide a user base as it has, there are too many ideas so culling has to happen
02:49.00starseekerWell, that's what open source is all about ;-)
02:49.14learneryep
02:49.24learnerwe hear enough people clammor for a feature.. it usually gets added
02:49.41starseekerSorry to bother ya with flag suggestions ;-)
02:50.45learnernah, no harm in suggesting ;)
02:50.50learnerfeedback is good
02:51.07starseekerClearly y'all know exactly what you're doing - you're the #1 open source game by a long shot
02:51.13learnermuch holds true for brl-cad too .. there's lots of directions it can go now
02:52.05starseekerhehe - there I'm pretty much TOTALLY unqualified.  I'm not even a computer professional or design engineer
02:52.34learnerwith a codebase as large as brl-cad, it's hard to go down a wrong path, though :)
02:53.02starseekerHehe.
02:53.12learneronly things it can't do without maintaining backwards support is the ray-intersection engine behavior in the raytrace library
02:53.45starseekerin brl-cad?
02:54.04starseekerI thought that was pretty stable
02:54.08starseekerthat part at least
02:54.16learnerit's very stable
02:54.37learnerthat's what I mean.. new devs can't go modifying the way the raytracing behaves wontonly
02:54.43starseekerAh.
02:54.48learnersince it _must_ remain stable
02:54.54starseekerI doubt they'll want to
02:55.13learnerit's used in many analytic codes that rely on it's behavior
02:55.28starseekerThe whole point of BRL-CAD is that it does a lot of the hard parts already
02:55.41learneroh, you might want to modify the raytrace engine to make the pictures more pretty -- it can happen, just have to be careful to maintain certain aspects of behavior
02:56.21starseekerWhy not just make an export to povray?  Use the internal render for "quick" stuff and send it to povray for the final "pretty" picture?
02:56.55starseekeror would making things "prettier" involve fundamental changes?
02:57.12learneri'd LOVE to see a g2pov and pov2g
02:58.10starseekerI suppose it's a little harder than just writing the internal objects to povray format, and vice versa?
02:58.21learnernot really
02:58.42learnerwould be one of the most simple export/imports .. pov supports many of the same primitives
02:58.48learnerand suports csg
02:59.09starseekerHmm.  Can the brl-cad ray-tracer handle surfaces and transparency?  (/me has vague recollections that these are two of the hard parts)
02:59.49starseekerI mean surface textures
02:59.50starseekerduh
03:01.15learnerwhat about textures?
03:01.33learnerbrl-cad regions can do texture mapping
03:01.44starseekerOK, so that'll map
03:01.47starseekercool.
03:02.21starseekerMaybe once I get my thesis wrapped up I can take a look at a povray import/export as a "beginner" project
03:06.02learnermm. what's the thesis on?
03:06.45starseekerBehavior of CuIn(S,Se)2 thin films near compositional ratios of Cu/In ~= 1
03:06.56starseekerpossibly relevant to solar cells
03:08.19starseekerHeh - I am sort of a weird person to be into all the open source science and engineering software - it stems mainly from my physics undergraduate days
03:09.21starseekerFinishing a thesis seems to be the hard part of it, but once it's done I will hopefully have weekends free and clear to do open source coding
03:09.49starseekerAnd perhaps then I can be of some real use to my favorite projects, and learn how to do Real Coding ;-)
03:11.18learnerhehe, interesting
03:12.01starseekerPoor Tim Daly can't figure out why he's had a thousand downloads or more of Axiom - he's always wondering who those people are and what they are doing
03:12.27starseekerI suppose a fair few are like me - not doing the hard science but checking out interesting software
03:12.33learnerso you've studied physics, materiels science, chemistry, etc
03:13.09starseekerNot so much chemistry - my undergrad was physics with a focus on High Energy, my Masters was/is Materials Science with a focus on Thin Film Solar Cells.
03:13.29learnergot it
03:14.01learnerso how long before we can see solar efficiency reach 50%? ;)
03:14.04starseekerMy current job involves printer drum coatings, so that's the most chemistry oriented of the three
03:14.14starseekerLook for flying pigs :-P
03:14.54starseeker50% would require several junctions and fine control over the band gaps - hard stuff
03:15.02starseekerand currently expensive
03:15.49starseekerDunno.  Tim probably would.  Let me see if he's in IRC...
03:16.01starseekerSnort.  Not tonight.  (naturally)
03:16.56starseekerSo how many honest to goodness engineers have you heard from so far, learner?
03:17.05learneror even better.. a generic polynomial root solver -- even a simple linear-based newtonian estimation if it were fast and stable
03:17.39learnerengineers of what sort?
03:18.00starseekerpeople who actually use programs like BRL-CAD to do real work :-)
03:18.31learnerahh, that number is fairly large and active already
03:18.44starseekerOh, OK :-)
03:18.49starseekerGood.
03:19.09learneri've heard from 2 or 3 new interests since open source directly
03:19.19starseekerVery good!
03:19.49starseekerInterest is always key for open source projects, although in your case I guess you're already pretty well set up
03:20.37learnerthere's probably about a dozen critical active codes more or less that use brl-cad today already for engineering analyses
03:20.42starseekerI have no idea what the license is, but would this be of any interest?  http://www.crbond.com/roots.htm
03:20.52learnerthere have been hundreds cumulatively over the years.. but interest (and funds) come and go
03:21.25starseekerYep, know what that's like.  (Solar cells + Bush administration ~= drought :-(
03:21.46learnerpossibly.. people have various definitions of "high performance" :)
03:22.35starseekerProbably the place to ask is the Maxima and Axiom lists.  It can't hurt, and maybe the'll mention brl-cad to some friends in engineering ;-)
03:22.44learnercauses the reverse in our field, of course ;)
03:23.23starseekerWell, at least someone benefits
03:25.03learnerthat root solver page might be of use actually..
03:25.09starseekerCool!
03:25.48learnerif their bairstow implementation is stable, that would do well in replacing brl-cad's newtonian iterative solution
03:26.05learnerand it might make my superellipsoid primitive behave..
03:26.29learnerso it could become official
03:26.45starseekerCool!  Did they stick a license in the zip file?
03:27.14learnerdoesn't matter.. there are papers posted
03:27.32learneri can implement off those if the license isn't suitable
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03:27.48starseeker:-).  Life is good for smart people
03:29.25learneryou're researching thin film transmissive properties for solar energy and you don't consider yourself "smart people"? :)
03:29.26starseekerIt looks like GNU Octave may also have an implimentation of bairstow:  http://academic.wsc.edu/faculty/jebauer1/numerical.html
03:29.56learnerthat one's less interesting
03:30.15learnerit's a high level interface first, usually implying that it's not performance tuned
03:30.20learnerbrl-cad's existing is fast..
03:30.31learneranother solver would need to be fast and more accurate
03:30.47starseekerlearner:  Nah - the smart people are the ones who can actually model the materials, or understand why they're too complicated to model.  
03:30.55starseekerlearner:  Ah, OK.
03:31.21starseekerIf you ever want a headache, check out some papers by a guy called Zunger on CuInSe2
03:31.28starseekerThat's some impressive work.
03:32.50starseekerMy work was definitely more experimental - I saw something weird.  I can't say what's causing it at a fundamental level
03:33.36starseekerExperimentalists spot it.  Then we give it to theorists to do the hard part ;-)
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03:38.40learnerstarseeker, that's cool still
03:39.37starseekerthanks :-)  It's a neat material growth effect, but it's ultimately something to avoid
03:39.57starseekerthe low band gap layer forms at the top, which isn't what we're after at all ;-)
03:40.39starseekerIf the first site falls through for the roots, you might check out the GNU scientific libraries
03:42.05starseekerhttp://sources.redhat.com/gsl/
03:42.07learnerthere are other solver systems I've read up on  and fast math libs abound (brl-cad's is fast)
03:42.26learnergsl i've seen.  it's interesting on some levels
03:42.34learnerno real good numbers on performance though
03:43.21starseekerAh.  You might want to ask the usnet groups - other than that, I'm not sure where to look.  Axiom and Maxima haven't worried about really fast numerical solving, so I'm not really up on it.
03:43.32starseeker'course, Axiom as a commercial program had NAG
03:44.12learnerasking won't really help.. just have to try it some day :)
03:44.22learnereveryone will say it's "fast"
03:44.28starseeker:-)
03:45.00starseekerI can add one more (remote) possibility to the list - pari-gp seems to have a good reputation generally.  But I don't know much about its abilities
03:45.13starseekerhttp://pari.math.u-bordeaux.fr/
03:46.06learnerstability of the numerics on high order polynomials is more important even than speed
03:46.07noybI also think fast is related to what job you're asking the software to do.  generally, nothing could be fast at every job.  
03:46.44learnerthere are numerical instabilities in a steiner surface I implemented that will be hard to solve
03:46.55learnerexactly
03:47.00noybfor learning matlab-like skills, I use 'octave' on my mac, installed via fink
03:49.25starseekerIndeed - apparently, in some cases the fastest algorithm is dependant on what hardware you have
03:49.43starseekerWell, time for sleep - have long drive tomorrow.
03:50.05starseekerThanks again for your work on brl-cad (and bzflag!) learner
03:50.20learneraiight
03:50.23learnersee you later
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05:39.49tjyanglearner,are you asleep yet ?
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07:46.19learnerhello fgq
07:56.31fgqhi learner
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050116

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050116

01:30.38*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (janek@absurd.ds.pg.gda.pl)
02:39.18learnerback in a few
02:55.03brlcadwow, what a blast from the past
02:55.13brlcaddont' think i've booted this sucker in over a year
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04:10.59brlcadhowdy
04:16.01polyspinEvenin.
04:16.21polyspinNoticed we don't build on OSX at the moment.  Trying a rebuild to check that.
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04:29.00polyspinInterseting.  configure checks for X11/Intrinsic.h to see if X exists
04:29.02polyspinThat check fails
04:29.10polyspinThence Tk build fails.
04:29.16brlcadodd
04:29.42brlcadi've made a handful of changes for other plats, but nothing related to X11, iirc
04:29.56polyspinWe don't seem to check in /usr/X11R6 I guess.
04:31.31polyspinYet X_PREFIX is getting set to /usr/X11R6...  stranger and stranger
04:31.59PhantomBantamI see stuff about x11, does this mean the mac binary will be up soon?
04:32.09brlcadPhantomBantam: working on it
04:32.29PhantomBantamThat's good.
04:33.18brlcadpolyspin: there's a single line that does the X checks in configure.in
04:33.28brlcader, .ac
04:34.25polyspinAC_PATH_X ?
04:34.34brlcadyes
04:35.11brlcadif it's not finding X, I'd try to find what's changed..
04:35.17polyspinAutoconf is 2.57.  
04:35.23polyspinI just installed Xcode 1.5
04:35.29polyspin(new machine image)
04:35.32brlcadahh
04:35.59brlcadinstalled dev tools? or just xcode?
04:36.21brlcadoh, you know what.. probably didn't install teh X11 dev kit
04:36.26polyspinDev toosl as well.
04:36.50brlcadX11 dev kit is a separate optional (disabled) install on the dev tools cd
04:37.04polyspinGotcha.  I'll go check that.
04:39.17polyspinDon't have the dev tools CD.  Downloaded from developer.apple.com
04:39.39brlcadreally.. couldn't find it there a week ago
04:41.32polyspinIt says it was posted 06Aug2004
04:42.26brlcad*shrug*
04:42.38brlcadjust be sure it's the Dev one ;)
04:43.04polyspinIt says "Xcode Tools v1.5
04:43.45polyspinFound the X11 SDK
04:44.24polyspinHeaders there now.  Time for autogen, configure, make
04:46.13brlcadcool
04:47.31polyspinWow, CHUD tools weren't installed by default either.  How sad.
05:00.45brlcadbah
05:00.57brlcad10.2 autogen.sh ends up with a 0 length configure
05:01.01brlcadyet no error
05:02.21a_b_normalyay autoconf!
05:02.23a_b_normal:)
05:03.06polyspinSigh.
05:04.11brlcadahh, autoconf 2.52
05:04.37polyspinLet that be a lesson to us :-/
05:08.02brlcadheh, can't make our cake and eat it too? :)
05:08.15a_b_normalas long as it's not apple pie
05:08.45polyspinYou can't make a cake unles you have ants (snigger)
05:09.04a_b_normali don't get it
05:09.37polyspin"cake" was the previous build system for BRL-CAD.  "ants" is a new build system popular with java folks
05:09.52polyspinor is it "ant"?
05:09.58a_b_normalah
05:10.03a_b_normaldeveloper humor
05:10.43brlcadjust ant I think
05:11.07brlcadscons has real promise
05:12.13polyspinas long as it isn't too much like "cmake"
05:13.08polyspinThe web page for scons mentions some nice features.
05:14.08brlcadyou can do a lot if you have to install your build environment before you build -- we could easily force only "autoconf 2.59 and automake 1.8 and libtool 1.5.10" and most of the build problems easily go away
05:14.36brlcadthat's akin to installing ant/scons/whatever to me
05:14.39polyspinThat's why we carried "cake" all those years.
05:14.57brlcadyeah
05:15.30brlcadthough it still was a real pita to modify
05:15.36polyspinIt would be nice to add checks to see if autoconf is a high enough version to generate the build env
05:16.02brlcadversions notwithstanding, I'd pick this over cake even still
05:16.03polyspinCake was a disgusting build system.  Mostly inscrutable.
05:16.13polyspinMike hacked long and hard on the "rules" files.
05:16.23brlcadthis has "just worked" for a lot of folks - we got a compliment on it to the list just recently from one of the old cakers
05:16.38brlcadi can imagine
05:17.02polyspinI like it because A) other people understand it. B) we don't have to carry/build it.
05:17.15polyspinIf (A) stops being the case, we can switch.
05:17.33polyspinOr if A applies to some other build system
05:19.51brlcadyeah
05:20.25brlcadit's by far the biggest wart that we as in the industry put up with it seems
05:20.39brlcadcept maybe microsoft.. there's a wart that's tolerated for ya
05:21.11polyspinI personally think that the "wart" is that "autoconf" is necessary for a Unix system.
05:21.17polyspinUnix should have converged.
05:36.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: match configure.ac's requirements. require autoconf 2.57 and specify automake 1.6.0 (unenforced). should probably try to pull the version mins directly ourselves.
05:42.45brlcadwow
05:44.02brlcadwe've had about 2/3rds the num of source downloads as bz's last release did (source release)
05:44.42polyspinawesome.
05:45.12brlcadscary amount of interest :)
05:45.34brlcadmore than I expected really, at least at first
05:45.57polyspintwo words:  Free CAD
05:46.14brlcadyep
05:46.29polyspinI'm waiting for the first distro to include, the first developer contributions, and the first contributed model
05:46.30brlcadNew too
05:46.54PhantomBantamI don't mean to be a bother, but do you know when will the mac binary be available>
05:47.12polyspinPhantom: Linking now.
05:47.22PhantomBantamSweet.
05:47.26polyspinIf it goes well, we might upload tonight.
05:47.39PhantomBantamAwesome.
05:47.58polyspinUnless I have to sleep first :-(
05:48.03brlcadI was thinking Sunday myself :)
05:48.19polyspinIt's Sunday now :-)
05:48.57PhantomBantamThat it is.
05:49.26brlcadnot it the timezones I feel like I'm in
06:35.14polyspinHave you heard of "swig" before?
06:36.21polyspinFor a modest amount of work, we could have full bu/bn/rt support in python, Tcl, java and others.
06:36.33polyspinI've been playing with it tonight, and I've almost got it configured.
06:36.51polyspinThere's one gotcha:  It doesn't like name re-use.
06:37.09polyspinWe have a number of structs, which also have variables or functions of the same name.
06:37.36polyspinIf we were willing to change this, SWIG would generate the "wrapper" libraries for us.
06:51.03brlcadi've heard mention of it, but not whether it's good/bad/painful/painless etc. .. sounds like a potential middle layer
06:51.48polyspinIt eats somthing that is pretty much a header file for C/C++ and generates the wrappers from the "extern" statements and data declarations.
06:52.55brlcadpretty much a header file?
06:53.06brlcador is it really a header file with some labels of theirs
06:53.20polyspinIt needs a few lines to tell it the name of the "package" you want to build.
06:53.37polyspinThe second.
06:54.22polyspinI'm building the python wrap now.
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07:17.09brlcadhello fgq
07:24.15polyspinGood luck with bz
07:24.33brlcadthx
07:24.46brlcadbrl-cad held it off long enough.. :)
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07:47.05EricWilhelmbrlcad, the swig interface file has some typemaps and such that aren't standard header matter
07:47.34brlcadgood to know
07:47.49EricWilhelmIf you don't have any nested arrays (or even non-char arrays) in your header, it can try to "do the right thing" by just looking at a header file
07:48.08EricWilhelmbut, to get (say) a proper perlish interface, you want to do some typemaps
07:48.53EricWilhelmI found that my CAD::Drawing::IO::DWGI module worked much better for making the OpenDWG library binding in a perlish way than the swig code.
07:49.32EricWilhelmIMO, the Inline.pm way of doing things is easier than swig, but that only gets you a perl binding.
07:49.37brlcadcept the end goal we were talking about was specifically intent on supporting about 5 different languages
07:50.08brlcadwe can do those bindings manually.. but one slightly painful swig (or anything) is going to be better than 5 custom
07:50.22brlcadand those languages may change..
07:50.24EricWilhelmI think the best way would be to lovingly craft a set of functions which raise the functionality level to something appropriate to each language.
07:50.51EricWilhelmfailing that, if you can master typemaps with swig, that might do the trick.
07:51.23EricWilhelmtrouble is, that if you don't pass data-structures, you tend to have functions with a lot of simple (float) parameters
07:51.32EricWilhelmso, you have perl code like:
07:52.11EricWilhelm($x1, $y1, $z1, $x2, $y2, $z2) = do_stuff($x1a, ... )
07:52.20EricWilhelmit's too painful for me to even type.
07:52.54EricWilhelmwhat I'm saying is that swig doesn't play nice (easily) with complex data structures
07:53.21EricWilhelmwith shadow classes, it gets better, but a lot of arrays (in C) are read-only because swig can't derive how to extend them, etc.
07:54.08EricWilhelmIt can be made to work with typemaps, but you need one for each type within each language.
07:55.03EricWilhelmI'm not sure what polyspin is working on, but let me know if I can be of some advice with the SWIG stuff.
07:55.26brlcadhrm.. we'll probably just have to test out some concrete bindings to perhaps libbu in a couple manners to see just how much is involved
07:55.44brlcadoh, i'm not exactly sure what his motivation was.. probaby a discussion we had last week
07:58.39EricWilhelmsounds cool.  It would be great to be able to extend brlcad with perl.
08:04.33brlcadyes it would
08:04.40brlcadi'd prefer perl over tcl at least
08:05.14brlcadbut then.. i'd prefer almost anything over tcl
08:05.29brlcadtcl's not bad.. there's just so much more that's better
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22:39.16a_b_normalshields up
22:39.21a_b_normalphaser...
22:39.25a_b_normalphsaers...
22:39.29a_b_normalFIRE!
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23:13.43a_b_normalyay
23:13.53a_b_normali think i caught a cold
23:14.01brlcadgreat
23:14.10a_b_normalthree hours of sleep a night since wed has taken it's toll!
23:14.37brlcadsounds like all you need is a solid day working out in the gym to take you out good ;)
23:14.49a_b_normali might have another hernia :(
23:15.02a_b_normalactually, i think i have two
23:15.44brlcadthen you can introduce one to the other
23:15.50a_b_normalhahah
23:16.03a_b_normalnut hernia.. meet the stomach.. stomach, say hello to nut
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050117

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050117

00:22.02a_b_normaldone yet?
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00:27.25floppyearshi could somebody tell me how does this program compare to solidworks ?
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00:33.00PhantomBantamI was wondering that as well.
00:33.23floppyearsanybody ?
00:39.09*** part/#brlcad floppyears (~floppy@c-67-168-255-181.client.comcast.net)
02:16.41*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.54.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
02:17.21PhantomBantamSo...
02:23.24a_b_normalsee the game?
02:26.54PhantomBantamI know I do.
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04:39.51brlcadeh
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17:26.58kraig01?
17:28.53kraig01I'm trying to set up brlcad, and I'm absolutely new to irc... anyone there?
17:29.32a_b_normali'm here, but i can't help you much on brlcad
17:29.49a_b_normalwhen learner or brlcad shows up, one of those will be able to help you
17:30.13kraig01Thanks, a_b_.  At least I know that irc seems to work
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17:51.17*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050118

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050118

00:00.21*** join/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)
00:08.11starseekerbrlcad:  Is cvs ready for the next gentoo attempt?
00:20.11brlcadstarseeker_food: =)
00:20.29brlcadas soon as this bz release is posted, you'll start seeing commits in here
00:21.32a_b_normalsomeone was lookink for help earlier
00:21.35a_b_normalkraig01
00:22.16brlcadrm. mmusta missed him
00:22.36janoyeah
00:22.41janotold him to look you up
00:22.46janohe was new to irc, too
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01:07.21PhantomBantam0What's happening with the site?
01:10.12brlcadsourceforge is experiencing "technical difficulties"
01:14.08*** join/#brlcad fgq (fgq@203-190-197-212.dial.usertools.net)
01:17.12janoso is smugmug
01:17.13jano:/
01:17.24janoi did more film shots this weekend
01:17.37janoit's a tough call
01:17.42janofilm or digital *shrug*
01:20.06brlcadboth!
01:21.28janohehe
01:28.06janodarnit
01:28.13janois smugmug having problems?
01:28.14jano:/
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02:29.55*** join/#brlcad stafa77 (~stafa77@d47-69-48-142.nap.wideopenwest.com)
02:34.30stafa77I'm having some trouble compiling under cygwin. can anyone help?
02:35.02brlcadi can try
02:35.05brlcadhow far are you ?
02:36.45stafa77I'm having trouble with the libfft directory
02:37.01stafa77I can send you the last few lines of output I'm getting
02:44.25brlcadsure, but I can't dcc
02:44.46brlcadperhaps http://pastebin.com/
02:45.11brlcadlibfft.. nice
02:46.20stafa77okay I posted on pastebin
02:47.37stafa77What I think is going on is that for some reason the ditsplitc.c file is not being compiled or linked into the executable.
02:48.17stafa77I'm no automake expert, but the Makefile.am file looks okay to me.
02:48.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: s/Vapp/Yapp/
02:48.40brlcadvery much so.. looks like you're missing more than one maybe too
02:50.04stafa77Do you have any idea why this is happening?
02:50.18brlcadhrm
02:50.35brlcadwhat's in your src/libffb/Makefile.in for ifftc_SOURCES ?
02:50.39brlcader, fft
02:52.11stafa77ifftc_SOURCES = ditsplitc.c ifftc.c
02:53.13brlcadwell, that's right
02:53.31brlcadcd src/libfft
02:53.35brlcadmake fftc
02:54.03brlcaddoes it complete errorless?
02:54.23stafa77nope
02:54.40stafa77similar problem
02:55.17brlcadmake ditsplitc.o
02:55.37stafa77no errors
02:55.48brlcadmake libfft.la
02:56.18stafa77same error as before
02:56.48brlcadexactly the same?
02:56.53brlcadundefined reference
02:56.59brlcadto _ditsplitc
02:57.05brlcader, ditsplit
02:57.12stafa77yes
02:57.17brlcadhrmph
02:57.48brlcadwhat's the link line?
02:58.06brlcad(feel free to paste here if < 10 lines)
03:00.49stafa77posted on pastebin
03:01.35brlcadhrm.. need the lines before that
03:01.42brlcadthe gcc or ld line
03:02.48stafa77sorry about that I misunderstood you
03:02.53stafa77I posted again
03:03.36brlcadnot a problem
03:03.46brlcadahh, so it gets close
03:05.48brlcadin your Makefile .. value of fftc_OBJECTS ?
03:06.02brlcadand if it's value is am_fftc_OBJECTS, what are the values of it
03:07.05stafa77am_fftc_OBJECTS = fftc.$(OBJEXT) splitditc.$(OBJEXT)
03:08.13brlcadvalue of EXEEXT ?
03:08.37stafa77EXEEXT = .exe
03:08.43brlcadk, that's good
03:09.01brlcadthe  fftc$(EXEEXT):  line?
03:09.12brlcadand two lines following
03:10.27stafa77fftc$(EXEEXT): $(fftc_OBJECTS) $(fftc_DEPENDENCIES)
03:11.22brlcadeek, I hope you're copy-pasting and not typing that all up :)
03:11.40stafa77I'm copy pasting
03:11.45brlcadk
03:11.50stafa77what about this
03:12.02stafa77fftc_DEPENDENCIES = $(am__DEPENDENCIES_1)
03:12.18stafa77am__DEPENDENCIES_1 =
03:12.27stafa77nothing after = sign
03:13.35brlcadtha'ts okay
03:13.38brlcadthere are no deps
03:14.11brlcadthe two lines after the fftc$(EXEEXT): ?
03:14.21brlcadshould be a $LINK of some sort
03:14.38brlcadthat's what's actually failing
03:15.11stafa77fftc$(EXEEXT): $(fftc_OBJECTS) $(fftc_DEPENDENCIES)
03:15.19stafa77@rm -f fftc$(EXEEXT)
03:15.29stafa77$(LINK) $(fftc_LDFLAGS) $(fftc_OBJECTS) $(fftc_LDADD) $(LIBS)
03:17.41brlcadhumm
03:18.03brlcadoh
03:18.07brlcadmake fftc.exe
03:18.31stafa77no errors
03:19.40brlcadahh, great
03:19.52brlcadmake ifftc.exe
03:20.02brlcadand make fftest.exe
03:20.50stafa77k, no errors
03:21.39stafa77okay, went back
03:21.50stafa77make is proceeding
03:21.58brlcadhrm
03:22.09brlcadwhat's odd is this:
03:22.13brlcadgcc -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -I../../include -pipe -fno-s
03:22.16brlcadtrict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g  ifftc.c   -o ifftc
03:22.40brlcad-o ifftc is very wrong, but that's all in libtool's domain
03:22.54brlcadhow did you generate the Makefiles?
03:23.07stafa77./autogen.sh
03:23.11stafa77./configure
03:23.13brlcaddid you run autogen.sh from inside cygwin?
03:23.17stafa77yes
03:23.25brlcadversion of libtool?
03:23.39stafa77how can I check that?
03:23.42brlcad(libtoolize --version)
03:24.14stafa771.5.10
03:24.36brlcadjeeesh.. that doesn't add up
03:24.40brlcadthat version is okay
03:25.01brlcadautomake --version ?
03:25.25stafa771.9.2
03:25.55brlcadahh
03:26.01brlcadthat could be it
03:26.13stafa77okay
03:26.18brlcadnot so much your fault .. though 1.9 is actually a little "too new"
03:26.26brlcadbut you should have seen problems before configure
03:26.35brlcadso maybe even those are fixed
03:26.59stafa77you mean I should have seen problems when running autogen.sh
03:27.05brlcadyes
03:27.21stafa77There wern't any as I recall.
03:27.40stafa77I was having other problems here and there which I managed to fix
03:27.56brlcadis the build proceeding now?
03:27.59brlcador halted?
03:28.11stafa77halted
03:28.24stafa77src/burst
03:28.40brlcadahh, but it made it through libfft
03:28.46stafa77yes
03:29.23brlcadif you don't mind checking, what is the noinst_PROGRAMS in src/libfft/Makefile ?
03:30.15stafa77noinst_PROGRAMS = fftc$(EXEEXT) fftest$(EXEEXT) ifftc$(EXEEXT)
03:30.48brlcadcould you e-mail me that makefile?
03:30.59brlcadi've not seen anything wrong with it yet..
03:31.04stafa77sure
03:31.13stafa77what email address
03:33.06brlcadso i can look at that later..
03:33.10brlcadwhat's the burst error?
03:34.18stafa77posted to pastebin
03:34.47brlcadahh
03:34.49brlcadthat's easy
03:35.35brlcaddelete the random() line in extern.h
03:35.51brlcad#if !defined(linux)
03:47.42brlcadhey, thanks to you for trying the build
03:48.13stafa77take care
03:48.25brlcadfeel free to drop me an e-mail
03:48.31brlcador here if something else comes up
03:48.38stafa77ok no prob
03:48.44*** part/#brlcad stafa77 (~stafa77@d47-69-48-142.nap.wideopenwest.com)
03:49.37tjyangbrlcad, look like sf.net has problem to stop you from release 7.0.4,right ?
03:49.55brlcadsf.net has had problems most of the day
03:50.02brlcadslowed things down big-time
03:50.09brlcaddidn't see the scheduled maintenance notice
03:50.27brlcadi've still got more I can work on, though
03:50.34brlcadcvs is responding (slowly)
03:50.43tjyangok, I will wait. I am busy with my home project.
03:52.20tjyanghow can I have write access to check in the work I am going to do ?
03:52.33tjyangcan you add me as developer ?
03:52.49tjyangI am not a developer, more like a packager.
03:53.49brlcadI can grant write access
03:54.44brlcadthough it's generally good to get to know what you're working on first, be sure you understand the rules and requirements
03:54.58tjyangI am still learing CVS, so no need for CVS writing yet.
03:55.02brlcadmaybe get changes as patches first .. depends on what the work is
03:55.15brlcadunderstand
03:55.47tjyangyes, I will have you review my work first, if you need it is worthy than we proceed to next step.
03:56.02tjyangif you thinks it is worthy.
03:56.29tjyangargh, time for bed for today's hard physical work. bye.
03:56.36brlcadat this point, there's tremendous room for worthiness :)
03:56.46brlcadcya
03:57.02tjyangnight.
03:57.11brlcadpretty much if people are really interested, I doubt there will be a problem
03:57.50tjyangso 7.0.4 is done, it is just sf.net's problem, correct ?
03:58.06brlcadi'd like to test some more here, but pretty much
03:58.44tjyangI want to release a package source that can generate rpm,sun pkgadd and hp depot native package formats for ppl to use.
03:59.42tjyangif they don't like the binary package I created, modifiy the package and create their own.
04:00.06tjyangbye.
04:00.12brlcadg'night
04:00.18*** part/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
04:04.06janoach
04:22.56*** join/#brlcad chris_ (~chris@ool-18b91018.dyn.optonline.net)
04:24.13chris_Am I in the right place? Looking for some help on installing BRL-CAD.
04:24.32brlcadsure are
04:25.37chris_Do you happen to know how I could get libtk to compile? I'm running a recent version of Linux, and apparently make is calling a bunch of X functions that it can't find.
04:27.04chris_I saw from the forums that I'm not the only one with this problem. It's probably something simple that I'm overlooking.
04:27.13brlcadwhich linux?
04:27.43chris_I'm running Ubuntu (to my shame); it's a user-friendly Debian offshoot. I managed to get a sane build environment on it, more or less.
04:28.57brlcad:)
04:29.30brlcadfirst off, are you building from cvs or from the source tarball, and did you run autogen.sh ?
04:29.46chris_Source tarball and no.
04:30.14brlcadokay, next Q is what's the actual build error?
04:30.44brlcadcan post to http://pastebin.com if it's more than 10 lines or so
04:31.14chris_A lot of undefined references: XCopyArea, XCreateRegion...and it's probably a hundred lines or more, all mostly the same.
04:31.32chris_Running along the lines of './.libs/libtk.a(tkTextDisp.o)(.text+0x3487):/tmp/brlcad-7.0/src/other/libtk/generic/tkTextDisp.c:2348: undefined reference to `XDestroyRegion''
04:33.11chris_More complete text at http://gareis.free.fr/brlcad_errors.txt
04:34.07brlcadcan you go back a little farther?
04:34.10brlcadto the last compile line
04:34.50chris_Forgive me for being such a luser that I don't know where to find my logs.
04:35.11brlcad:) no problem
04:35.33brlcadi lose my logs all the time
04:38.26brlcadthe undefined refernces mean that it didn't locate your X11 libraries
04:38.49brlcadthe compile line and your config.log will give some insight into why that happened
04:39.00chris_So I'd have to specify them with options in the make command. Okay.
04:39.05chris_Thanks for holding my hand.
04:53.59*** part/#brlcad chris_ (~chris@ool-18b91018.dyn.optonline.net)
06:00.52jano<@brlcad> i lose my logs all the time
06:00.54janorofl
06:01.00janohahahaha
06:01.01jano:D
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17:19.48janowhat's the command in loonix to get how many files you've got in a dir?
17:20.26brlcadls -1 | wc ?
17:21.54janothanks
17:22.07janowait
17:22.11janothat gives wc
17:22.12janonot lines
17:22.33jano-l
17:22.33jano:)
17:22.35janoscreen -r
17:22.39brlcadwc's first number is lines
17:23.04brlcadsecond is words, third is chars
17:23.21janoyup
18:51.17EricWilhelmls | grep -c
18:51.25EricWilhelmoops
18:51.29EricWilhelmls | grep -c ''
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050119

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050119

00:15.30*** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)
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07:27.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/acinclude.m4: snarf the libtool.m4 macros for AC_PROG_LIBTOOL since there are so many variants and version incompatibilities
07:35.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: check for and print out automake's version; search for m4 files in common misconfigured aclocal dirs
07:36.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use AC_PROG_LIBTOOL (in our acinclude.m4); try a different approach on finding AR
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08:57.51CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: add verbose and quiet options and corresponding output. remove convenience passing of autogen args to configure since autogen has it's own args now too.
08:59.23CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: attempt to pull the revision back to 2.52 from 2.57 .. trying to find that convenient supportable version
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09:23.33CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: attempt to pull the revision back to 2.52 from 2.57 .. trying to find that convenient supportable version
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13:48.25ksI am a new user to IRC and am trying to install BRL-CAD on linux RH8.  Is this the place to ask for help?
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14:34.01brlcadks: sure
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18:50.28janohmm
19:23.39ksI compiled & installed brl-cad on an Athlon PC running RH8 2.4.20-28.8.  I added the necessary EXPORT PATH & BRLCAD_ROOT varsiables.  However when I run 'mged' I get a "invalid command "gui" error.  Does anybody have any clues or solution to this problem ?
19:24.37ksI used the latest CVS, as of yesterday...
20:41.49EricWilhelmks, someone else was having what sounds like similar trouble.  Did the make benchmark work for you?
20:42.14EricWilhelmiirc, his problem was with an older automake/autoconf or something
20:42.21EricWilhelmcan you build from the tarball?
21:08.58ksI was able to run the benchmark, all except one set of tests
21:09.21ksHang on I need to look up what failed...
21:11.50ksm35 786358 matching, 74 off by 1, 0 off by many m35.pix: answers are RIGHT
21:13.15ksI upgraded to autoconf 2.59 yesterday because prior to tat I could not ./configure
21:18.02ksI have not tried building from a tarball, yet.  Do you advise I do?
22:28.49EricWilhelmI didn't have any trouble with the tarball on this debian 'testing' system, but I have seen a lot of problems from others who are using CVS.
22:29.30EricWilhelmI don't remember exactly which version of autoconf you need.  Ask brlcad/learner (seems he is away right now.)
22:34.37brlcadks: sounds like the BRLCAD_ROOT isn't set correctly
22:34.50brlcadwhat value is it set to?
22:34.57brlcadbest to unset it
22:35.33brlcadks: the off by 1 are quite acceptible
22:36.18brlcadI commited a lot of fixes to cvs last night, so it should be behaving much better now (and if you ran the benchmarks successfully, it obviously is)
23:08.33ksBRLCAD_ROOT=/usr/brlcad/bin; export BRLCAD_ROOT, which is where I checked that the the executables are...
23:14.14starseekerbrlcad: You here?
23:15.07ksTried installing the tarball 7.0.2, but make bechmark fails ALL tests. Every *.pix file results in "No such file or directory" now !?  WRONG WRONG WRONG ...
23:17.17brlcadks: BRLCAD_ROOT is actually /usr/brlcad in that case
23:17.32brlcadstarseeker: am now, in and out
23:17.40brlcad(7.0.4 is almost ready)
23:17.50starseekerbrlcad:  OK, cool.  I'm preping for another shot at gentoo - is cvs ready?
23:17.56brlcadks: rm db/*.g
23:18.08brlcadthen try the benchmark -- it should succeed then
23:18.23brlcadstarseeker: it should be later tonight, still commiting changes
23:18.32starseekerOK. :-)
23:18.33brlcadhave to upgrade URT and libpng still
23:18.59brlcadfixed the various automake+libtool problems we've had though .. should make things so much easier now
23:19.03starseekerI see bzflag 2 is out - there goes any chance of my being productive for another week ;-)
23:19.51starseekerOK, I'll run it through the ebuild as a quick check then
23:20.40brlcadstarseeker: that's exactly why I CAN be productive now :)
23:20.54starseekerWell, you're probably the only one :-P
23:20.55brlcadat least productive for brl-cad :)
23:21.14brlcadit'll still fail ebuild as I've not commited the pro-e fix yet
23:21.28starseekerOh :-)
23:21.37starseekernevermind then
23:22.55ksTThanks for the advise about *.g  make benchmark appears to be working now!
23:23.39brlcadks: that was a problem in the source tar.gz download for 7.0.2 .. oversight of sorts
23:23.43ksI will correct the BRLCAD_ROOT var...
23:24.07brlcadbest to try it with BRLCAD_ROOT unset first.. then if that fails, to set it to /usr/brlcad
23:28.25ksBRLCAD ! Thanks for all your help !!! It works now.  I see the dialog window.  Catch you later.  Keep up the excellent work...  and THANKS again.
23:32.05starseekerbrlcad: I'll give it a shot later tonight, when the fixes are in.  When do you think?  Four, five hours from now?
23:41.24brlcadks: glad to hear it's working :)
23:41.33brlcadstarseeker_bzfla: that sounds about right
23:43.50*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050121

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050121

00:07.34starseekerblegh - too many good bzflag players
00:13.01brlcadhehe
00:14.30jano:)
00:14.34janoptoooo
00:14.38janoptoooo
00:14.49janonnnneeeeeeeee-aaaaa---wwwwwwwww
00:14.53janorat-tat-tat-tat
00:14.56janoKAPOW!
00:16.21brlcadjano ist bored
00:16.24brlcador borked
01:10.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: thx, Balbir Thomas for pointing out the illegal syntax. needed to move the variable sets after the preprocessor block for cur_pixel and last_pixel.
01:23.52starseekeror he got clobbered in bzflag ;-)
02:09.00*** join/#brlcad CIA-temp225 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
02:19.06*** join/#brlcad kraig (~kraig@dsl-63-173-191-32.tcq.net)
03:05.16*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-104-25.client.comcast.net)
03:05.16*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots uploaded http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 ... || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || /. http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/08/1823248&tid=185&tid=103&tid=117&tid=8
irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050122

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050122

00:04.08*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
00:07.54PrezKennedyis ther a windoz versun yet??
02:17.44*** join/#brlcad kraig01 (~kraig@dsl-63-173-191-32.tcq.net)
02:21.43*** join/#brlcad [Prez|Kennedy] (~Matthew@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
05:10.16*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.182.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
05:26.08*** part/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.182.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
10:58.02*** join/#brlcad Alfons (~Alf@101.111.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch)
11:13.10*** join/#brlcad Alfons (~Alf@101.111.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch)
11:13.22Alfonshello
11:13.37Alfonsi have downloaded brlcad, but how can i start it?
11:46.37Alfonshello, i can not find autogen.sh
16:55.06*** join/#brlcad Alfons (~Alf@37.200.186.195.cust.bluewin.ch)
16:57.59Alfonshello everybody
17:25.47need_pizzahello
17:25.56Alfonshi need_pizza
19:05.06*** join/#brlcad learner (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
19:05.06*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
19:05.06*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by irc.freenode.net
19:06.00learneroof
19:35.54*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
19:35.54*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX
20:48.20starseekerlearner:  What's the relationship (or is there any) between brl-cad and Paraview?
22:26.00*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp02462412pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
22:31.38*** join/#brlcad parasite- (~parasite@69-30-99-234.dv1sn.easystreet.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050123

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050123

00:46.09starseekerbrlcad:  Still here?
00:46.47brlcadyes
00:46.59brlcadcoding up the png upgrade now
00:47.07starseekerMind if I repose the earlier question?  what's the relationship (or is there any) between brl-cad and Paraview?
00:47.29starseekerWait, you're coding - scratch that ;-)
00:47.32starseekerignore me
00:47.33brlcadwe've used it
00:47.35starseekercode :-)
00:48.09brlcadparaview's a nice visualization toolkit with similar interests
00:48.43starseekerI noticed a couple screenshots on the Paraview page from US Army Research Laboratory :-)
00:52.44starseekerSo Paraview is more along the lines of the mged interface?
00:56.00brlcadnot really
00:57.02starseekerah.  Shoulda figured it wouldn't be that simple :-)
00:57.14brlcadit's a visualization toolkit useful for visualizing analysis results
00:57.34brlcadso other codes that use brl-cad for example
00:57.39brlcadfor analyses
00:57.49brlcadmight use paraview to display the results
00:58.02starseekerOhh, OK :-).
00:58.56brlcadwe could potentially use it for visualization as well, but that gets into a rather different area
00:59.37starseekerThe part where certain parts of brl-cad have to behave in certain ways for other (classified) parts to work?
01:01.11brlcadthere are parts like that -- but by in large it's because they are mathematically stable and verified
01:01.23brlcadso a change would mean it's not numerically correct
01:01.29starseekerAh.  Yes, I can definitely understand that
01:02.00brlcadonce in a blue moon, a deep bug may be encountered that contradicts it so it's always good to investigate _why_ something is different
01:03.32starseekerHeh - that's one of my favorite arguements for why we need both Maxima and Axiom (and anybody else who wants to play) - redundancy between independant efforts is an excellent check on the results.
01:04.33starseekerA curiosity question - do you have to validate a compiler then, as well as the code?  Even correct code isn't worth much if compiled incorrectly.
01:05.20brlcadthat's implicit in verifying that the actual output and behavior is correct
01:05.28starseekerAh.
01:05.38starseekerComparison with the real world, you mean?
01:07.12brlcadwell, we have existing computations that are consistent
01:07.26brlcadso when a new compiler or new OS comes along, it's easy to see if anything changes
01:07.33brlcadand eventually determine why it changed
01:07.38brlcadand if the change is good or bad
01:07.44starseekerAh :-).  Has it ever happened?
01:08.02brlcadseveral times
01:09.03starseekerWow.  This is why well coded software should last forever - for the good of everybody, not just the program itself.
01:12.00brlcadindeed
01:12.30brlcadthe gnu build system is one of the worst instabilities that we have to deal with by far
01:14.42starseekerDoes brl-cad get exposed to binutils issues at all?
01:16.14brlcadsuch as?
01:16.53starseekerNothing specific.  It's pretty unlikely, except everytime we turn around GNU Common Lisp is having problems with the lastest release of binutils.
01:17.10starseekerI guess that's probably a bit low level for brl-cad though
01:17.46brlcadnothing comes to mind
01:18.11starseekerJust trying to think ahead to potential future weak points on gentoo - since updating packages only involves updating a build script and running it, gentoo users often stumble into such cow pies first :-/
01:20.15starseekerNow that I think about it though, given how widely brl-cad has been ported already, my guess is it won't have issues.
01:21.06brlcadmost of our current porting problems are due to the fact that we've recently converted to the gnu build system
01:21.17brlcadwasn't very long ago that we weren't
01:21.56brlcadold build system supported a heck of a lot more than this, but it wasn't as well understood or customized
01:22.30starseekerAh, the good old pile of well running spagetti? :-)
01:22.43brlcadonly so so spagetti
01:22.54brlcadit was more like x11's build system
01:23.04brlcada section for each system had to be defined
01:23.12brlcadno discovery of features available
01:23.24brlcadbut very stable build if you were in the list
01:24.06starseekerWell, thank you for being willing to endure the autotools hassle :-)
01:24.30starseekerThe X11 build and I reached an agreement - I wouldn't try it by hand if it would get out of my nightmares ;-)
01:25.42brlcadheh, ours wasn't as bad or complex as X11's
01:25.46brlcadbut in a similar style only
01:25.51starseekerphew
01:26.27brlcadthe build first compiled a version of make (called cake) that was then used to build the package
01:27.12starseekerHmm.  Does brl-cad predate make?
01:27.36brlcadso literally no external dependancy (by design) beyond a unix shell and a compiler
01:27.43starseekerAh :-)
01:28.30brlcadwhich is also the reason for shipping the src/other/ components for libpng, tcl/tk, zlib, etc
01:28.57starseekerYes, I've seen other programs do that too.  Always a good idea to sure survival of the software, but a shame in some ways.
01:30.57starseekernot that anybody looks, since you have to run X with only 256 colors or some nonsense even then :-(
01:31.12starseekerBRL-CAD's dev team really does deserve three cheers
01:31.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (68 files in 2 dirs): update of libpng from 1.2.5 to 1.2.8
01:31.28*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.160.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
01:31.38brlcadactually our problem was usually that either the system we install onto doesn't have the lib or their lib is too old
01:32.29starseekerAh :-).  That's right, some systems actually don't recklessly upgrade their core software every few days ;-)
01:32.41starseekerspeaking of that...
01:33.54starseekerBTY, what diabolical wit named the CIA-6 bot CIA?
01:35.54brlcadheh
01:35.58brlcadthat's scanline's doing
01:36.05brlcadhe lives in a lot of channels
01:36.39brlcadhttp://cia.navi.cx/irc
03:09.24janobork bork bork
03:28.52*** part/#brlcad corbanj (~corbanj@adsl-69-209-65-250.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
03:45.44CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: update of libpng from 1.2.5 to 1.2.8
04:50.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/png.h: update of libpng from 1.2.5 to 1.2.8
10:23.34*** join/#brlcad Alfons (~Alf@153.103.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch)
10:23.44Alfonshello everybody
10:24.50Alfonsis someone here, who managed to install the brlcad on a linux system?
10:25.28Alfonsi am trying to "Building from the sourceforge CVS repository"
11:09.11*** join/#brlcad cosurgi (janek@absurd.ds.pg.gda.pl)
11:10.45Alfonsdoes somebody know what this mean
11:10.48Alfonsbrlcad-7.0/src/burst/Sc.c:321: undefined reference to `tgoto'
11:10.49AlfonsSc.o(.text+0x772):/musik/Programme/brlcad-7.0/src/burst/Sc.c:321: undefined reference to `tputs'
12:14.50Alfonsno idea how to solve the problem?
13:28.16*** join/#brlcad IR-KONG (~chatzilla@203185044191.ctinets.com)
13:30.56IR-KONGHello!
13:30.58IR-KONGI'm new to #brlcad.
13:30.59IR-KONGI have notice it become GPL'ed recently.
13:31.01IR-KONGThank you very much!
14:00.09brlcad:)
14:01.21brlcadAlfons: those are curses symbols
14:01.43brlcadAlfons: ensure you have curses/ncurses installed and termcap
14:06.34brlcadIR-KONG: I'm rather happy about it too
14:07.32brlcadnow we just need some more folks to get involved, get some more devs and other contributors ;)
14:09.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: png was updated to 1.2.8
14:11.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add checks for termcap and curses to skip building those components
14:26.14CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: sun machine is busted, so off the list; cvs policy was updated
14:28.12IR-KONGI sorry I have to leave now.
14:28.14IR-KONGNice talking to you.
14:28.15IR-KONGThank you very much.
14:28.17IR-KONGBye!
14:28.19brlcadcya
14:30.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/ (36 files): update from a patched 3.0 to urt 3.1b1 (library)
14:31.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (pyramid.h rle.h rle_code.h rle_config.h rle_put.h rle_raw.h): update from a patched 3.0 to urt 3.1b1 (library)
14:39.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: differentiate the urt, png, itcl, tcl, and tk headers
16:03.44*** join/#brlcad guu` (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
16:05.08*** join/#brlcad brlcad (~brlcad@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:07.46janobork!
16:16.09brlcadhowdy
16:41.55janohmm
16:42.03janodid you see the IR pics?
16:42.04jano:)
16:42.09janoi pickup my film today
16:53.00brlcadyes
16:53.03brlcadpretty neat
16:57.22*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
18:28.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (colorquant.h Makefile.am): add new colorquant.h file from urt update to 3.1
19:05.40*** join/#brlcad Nidhoggr (mandrake@dragon.org)
19:14.32*** join/#brlcad Nidhoggr (mandrake@dragon.org)
19:49.08*** join/#brlcad Nidhoggr (mandrake@dragon.org)
20:03.06*** join/#brlcad Nidhoggr (mandrake@dragon.org)
20:15.16CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: define CONST_DECL to const since ansi required
20:57.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/rle_global.c: the 'stdout' symbol is not necessarily constant, so use the numeric equivalent 0
23:18.54*** join/#brlcad ibot (~ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
23:18.54*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX
23:21.07*** join/#brlcad ibot (~ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
23:21.07*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050124

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050124

02:50.20janohmm.. bork
03:00.39brlcadwoot, finally working!
03:00.44brlcadhowdy howdy bork bork
03:12.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (exit_status.h Makefile.am): new libutahrle header from urt 3.1b1
03:29.26CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/.cvsignore: urt binaries now in a different location
03:33.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (123 files): poof, files deleted. urt is upgraded from 3.0 to 3.1b1; files move into subdirs (tools, cnv, man)
03:45.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (7 files): new files from 3.1b1 urt update
03:47.11CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/Makefile.am: update from 3.0 to 3.1b1 urt, this includes moving files from the top level to subdirectories (cnv, man, tools)
04:00.30CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/ (rletocgm.c rletovcr.c vcrtorle.c): initial modified upgrade to urt 3.1b1 moved from src/other/URToolkit to subdir cnv within
04:56.01CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/ (31 files): upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1b1, files moved from src/other/URToolkit to cnv subdir
04:57.41CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletoabA62/ (COPYRIGHT rle.c): upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1b1, files moved from src/other/URToolkit to cnv subdir
04:59.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletogif/ (compgif.c gifencod.c rletogif.c): upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1b1, files moved from src/other/URToolkit to cnv/giftorle subdir
05:03.33janowhat's working?
05:03.36janothe irc thingy?
05:03.38janoi can see that
05:03.39jano:P
05:03.39jano:D
05:03.41brlcad:P
05:03.48brlcadno, the URToolkit
05:03.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletogif/rletogif.h: upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1b1, files moved from src/other/URToolkit to cnv/giftorle subdir
05:04.02janoah
05:06.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/man/ (94 files): update of urt from 3.0 to 3.1b1; this includes keeping directory structure and moving manpages to src/other/URToolkit/man
05:13.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/ (47 files): update of urt from 3.0 to 3.1b1; this includes keeping directory structure and moving tools to src/other/URToolkit/tools
05:17.55CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/clock/ (README font.c font.h font.src makeFont rleClock.c): update of urt from 3.0 to 3.1b1; this includes keeping directory structure and moving rleClock to src/other/URToolkit/tools/clock
05:21.06CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletoabA62/rletoabA62.c: almost missed this one, update from 3.0 to 3.1b1; sources moved from src/other/URToolkit to cnv/rletoabA62 subdir
05:23.42CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (6 files in 6 dirs): new build files and reorganization for urt upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1b1, preserves original dir structure instead of flattening
05:25.17CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add new URToolkit directories after unflattening for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1b1
05:32.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pro-engineer/Makefile.am: test using proebindir for installing instead of custom install rule
06:52.17janodamn
06:52.22janothis 100mm lens is SHARP!
06:52.22jano:D
11:10.58starseekerUh oh - automake now fails on gentoo :-(.  Is it currently broken?
11:14.53starseekerhttp://pastebin.ca/4673
14:19.23*** join/#brlcad kraig01 (~kraig@dsl-63-173-191-32.tcq.net)
16:20.44brlcadstarseeker: looks like you have a cvs checkout there, you'll need to "cvs update -dP" to get the new directories
16:20.53brlcadand thanks :)
16:27.00Nidhoggrhi brlcad
16:27.57brlcadg'morning
16:40.55CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: urt is updated, demote the slightly less necessary for release, need to verify debian build again
16:49.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: urt is updated from 3.0 to 3.1b1
21:03.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: finally add libtool checks too, starting with 1.4.3 as a minimum; condense the output format a bit too. this begs for a function now.
21:17.54*** join/#brlcad kraig01 (~kraig@dsl-63-173-191-32.tcq.net)
22:33.52*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:34.04polyspinYellow!
22:48.06*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-104-25.client.comcast.net)
22:48.06*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX
22:51.20polyspin~brlcad
22:51.21ibotsomebody said brlcad was like a learner wrapped in tofu best served chilled
22:56.13starseekerI'm afraid to ask who said that
22:59.16polyspinThat was the ibot
22:59.27polyspinI asked it what brlcad was
23:01.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/clock/Makefile.am: it's makeFont, not makeFont.sh now
23:03.37starseekerI know - I was wondering who TOLD ibot that ;-)
23:04.00polyspinI suspect it was "brlcad"
23:04.10starseekerHmm. :-)
23:04.19starseekertoo much bzflag time I expect
23:04.37starseekerclearly he's being nice and productive now
23:05.22starseekergentoo build beginning, fingers crossed, dancing around sacrificial chicken...
23:05.50starseekerheh - whadya bet I get an error about makeFont.sh
23:07.14starseekerNeed to build a lotta stuff tonight - my frappin heat is out again
23:09.53starseekerAnd the code keeps pounding a rhythum in my brain...
23:10.01starseekerthe build goes on, the build goes on
23:10.51polyspinHeat the house with cpu's
23:11.09polyspinThat's what the folks at NCAR did.  Made PM's blithering cold days.
23:25.46starseekerShoulda bought that old Cray off of ebay, I guess
23:26.46polyspinThey make great "wet bar" furniture these days ;-)
23:33.33parasite-that sounds like an expensive way to heat a house...
23:34.09parasite-despite being the dream of most geeks. :)
23:49.19polyspinTime to go home.
23:55.15CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pro-engineer/Makefile.am: mk dll not mk lib. separate out the build rules for proe-brl and libproe2brl.so; use plugin2 and unlock2 for the .so
23:55.52brlcadstarseeker: makeFont.sh is fixed
23:57.24brlcadmight be good to go for testing
23:57.34brlcadtesting debian now
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050125

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050125

00:02.49*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX || 7.0.4 Release Date is Today!
02:32.38CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: little bit more flexibility detecting autotools versions
03:26.18CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: ws
03:29.45brlcadstarseeker: ping?
04:10.50CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: benchmark fails to compute the vgr metric on Debian due to missing dc utility (bc is available)
04:36.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
04:36.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: automake 1.8 seems to have a bug that leaves MKDIR_P unset so even after
04:36.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE, so call AM_PROG_MKDIR_P explicitly. failure to do so causes a
04:36.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: failure on make install, of course, when trying to make the install directories
04:46.28CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: ? is not doing the job so go with *
05:03.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/acinclude.m4: bundle in AM_PROG_MKDIR_P from automake 1.8+. macro is used to avoid buggy automake 1.8 configurations on debian and other platforms
05:09.59*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
05:45.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/perf.sh: some newer systems seem to find it funny to not include the old dc desktop calculator by default, so try to use the newer bc as an alternate.
05:48.17CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: fixed reliance on dc, but using bc as a backup
05:49.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: debian verified and working
05:53.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed missing vgr results when missing dc
05:57.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: it's a patch update, not a minor update
06:00.58*** join/#brlcad parasite-- (~parasite@69-30-99-234.dv1sn.easystreet.com)
06:27.16CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/Makefile.am: do not create empty .g databases when asc2g isn't available -- breaks doing a make dist
06:33.59*** join/#brlcad jano_ (point@portablehole.net)
06:54.49CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/rle_open_f.c: apply sf patch 1108755 from giffunip that provides snprintf's to address apparent CERT/ICANN vulnerability.
07:07.18CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: provided libutahrle (urt) vulnerability patch
07:49.17*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
08:23.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS configure.ac): ready for 7.0.4 on 25 jan 2005
09:06.07*** join/#brlcad Nidhoggr_ (mandrake@dragon.org)
09:54.24*** join/#brlcad Nidhoggr (mandrake@dragon.org)
13:37.53starseekerwell, as of last night pro-engineer still causes the same sandbox errors
13:38.30starseekerI'll give it another go this evening.
14:05.14janohttp://www.kookisushi.com/
14:46.12brlcadstarseeker: :( ... can you paste me what the error is exactly?
14:48.21brlcadjano: mm yum ;)
14:49.24jano:D
15:02.11*** join/#brlcad parasite-- (~parasite@69-30-99-234.dv1sn.easystreet.com)
15:43.01Nidhoggrbrlcad: same ranlib problem.
15:43.23Nidhoggrar cru .libs/libpng.a  example.o png.o pngerror.o pnggccrd.o pngget.o pngmem.o pngpread.o pngread.o pngrio.o pngrtran.o pngrutil.o pngset.o pngtrans.o pngvcrd.o pngwio.o pngwrite.o pngwtran.o pngwutil.o~ranlib .libs/libpng.a
15:43.28Nidhoggrar: pngwutil.o~ranlib: No such file or directory
16:37.24brlcadahh
16:38.27brlcadNidhoggr: you should have a generated file in your brlcad/ directory named 'libtool' .. edit it and s/~ranlib/ ; ranlib/
16:38.42Nidhoggrok.
16:38.55brlcadnot sure why libtoolize is doing that
16:39.21brlcadseems like a bug, but haven't had time to poke it in depth
16:39.44brlcadi get it on my G5, but not on my G4 too which is even more puzzling
16:52.57janoholy crap
16:53.03janowhy didn't I get this dslr sooner?!?!
16:53.07jano:D :D :D :D :D :D
17:21.52Nidhoggrthis might be a clue:  ./autogen.sh: line 261: [: too many arguments
17:22.39Nidhoggrjano: I love my DSLR (EOS 10D)
17:23.10janoi just picked up the drebel
17:23.17janocouldn't beat the price
17:23.22jano$400 after rebates
17:23.27jano:D
17:23.28Nidhoggrnice
17:23.34janoi hate big cameras, too
17:23.42janobut i think i'm going to like this
17:23.48jano<PROTECTED>
17:23.49jano:D
17:23.53Nidhoggrwhen I first got mine I was taking 800 pics a week. :)
17:23.58janohehe
17:24.10janoi've been shooting for a couple years with sony f717 and v1
17:24.13Nidhoggrnice.
17:24.23Nidhoggrcheck out my gallery site at http://secretplace.us
17:24.59janohttp://www.secretplace.us/africa/pages/page_177.html
17:25.05janoreminds me of this shot I took last year
17:25.09brlcadthat's right.. you two have the same camera :)
17:25.18Nidhoggrbrlcad: pretty close :)
17:25.34janoi can modify drebel to have some similarities to 10d
17:25.40Nidhoggrnod
17:25.46janohttp://jano.smugmug.com/photos/5279248-M.jpg
17:26.06Nidhoggrnice.
17:26.13NidhoggrI have a lot of hibiscus pics.
17:26.17janohey.. are your pics in adobergb?
17:26.29Nidhoggrsome. not all.
17:26.46janoah, you convert them over to srgb
17:27.11janohttp://www.secretplace.us/misc2/pages/page_26.html nice
17:27.13Nidhoggrthese all are created by the same gallery software.
17:27.46janoah
17:28.03NidhoggrI use bwconvert in photoshop to greyscale and pantone
17:28.38jano:)
17:29.16Nidhoggrmy old camera has a whiteboard mode, which I'm very fond of.
17:29.39janowhiteboard?
17:29.40janooh
17:29.43janocool
17:30.07Nidhoggrhttp://www.secretplace.us/misc2/pages/page_18.html
17:30.11Nidhoggrthat's my fave whiteboard pic.
17:30.25Nidhoggrthat's my brother
17:30.30janolooks like rasputin almost
17:30.32janohehehe
17:30.38janoor ulysses grant
17:30.42Nidhoggr:)
17:31.11Nidhoggrhe's 2 years younger than I, but I look younger because I keep my hair very short (about 1/16 of an inch)
18:42.07*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
19:06.13*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
19:25.58*** part/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
21:16.57Nidhoggryay! I got past the ranlib error finally.
21:17.01Nidhoggrthanks :)
21:23.40brlcadI would suggest --enable-optimized if you plan on doing any rendering or benchmarking ;)
21:24.14Nidhoggrhrm.
21:24.33Nidhoggrgot an error anway. :(
21:24.47brlcadreally??
21:24.52Nidhoggrtons of tk stuff.
21:24.58brlcadahh
21:25.09brlcadyou're likely missing the X11 headers
21:25.19brlcaddo you have /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h ?
21:25.45Nidhoggrnope
21:25.54brlcadyet another curiosity that I'll not understand from Debian's setup :)
21:25.55Nidhoggrwhy would it need x if I was compiling for mac osx?
21:26.10brlcadit's ahh os x, eh?
21:26.17brlcadthat explains the ranlib then..
21:26.36NidhoggrI thought you already knew I was compiling it on my pwerbook
21:26.55brlcadnah, thought you were compiling for debby
21:26.57Nidhoggrah
21:26.59Nidhoggrhrm.
21:27.05brlcadsame problem though
21:27.11brlcadmissing X11 headers
21:27.18brlcadit is required for now..
21:27.22Nidhoggrhrm.
21:27.26brlcadit's a separate install on the dev cd
21:27.27NidhoggrI have apple's x11
21:27.46Nidhoggrand use it constantly.
21:27.53brlcadyeah.. installing apple's X11 doesn't install the dev headers
21:27.58Nidhoggrcrap.
21:28.05brlcadanother unfathomable
21:28.12Nidhoggrthat is pretty durn stupid.
21:29.00brlcadI've been trying to decouple from X11 completely on OS X, but TkAqua was woefully buggy last time I tried it
21:29.18brlcadthat was a while ago, though.. it's "on the list" to try it again real soon
21:29.47Nidhoggrcool
21:30.05brlcadyou're looking for "X11 for Mac OS X SDK"
21:31.18brlcadif you have the Apple Dev CD handy, it's pretty easy to grab off of it
21:31.21*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
21:31.43tjyangbrlcad, you here ?
21:32.52tjyangbrlcad-7.0.4 didn't fix the compling issue of this "into.c:108: error: `sys_errlist' undeclared (first use in this function)" for both hpux and solaris.
21:32.53NidhoggrI don't have the dev CD around.
21:32.56Nidhoggrmight have it at home.
21:36.14brlcadtjyang-pickupkid: okay
21:36.54brlcadour solaris box died (completely) last week when I started verifying, so there wasn't much more I could do to finish it
21:37.33brlcadNidhoggr: I have it all over as well, see if I can locate it (or I'll just post that dang binary)
21:37.46Nidhoggrheh
21:38.07Nidhoggrthanks.  supposedly you can only get it on the CD since that's what they are telling me I need on their website.
22:07.37tjyangbrlcad,do you know the fix/patch to get over this sys_errlist issue ?
22:30.29starseekerbrlcad:  It was the exact same error, IIRC
22:30.32starseekersandbox error
22:30.35starseekergentoo specific
22:30.50starseekerlet me try very latest cvs once...
22:33.01starseekerbrlcad: ping?
22:33.55starseekerHmm - there was an update to the Makefile.pm I didn't get, it seems
22:36.24starseekerso don't panic yet ;-)
22:44.45starseekerHmm. fudge
22:44.56starseekerwell, here's the error anyway:
22:45.35starseekerhttp://pastebin.ca/4725
22:45.52starseekerSorry it took so long, just got back from work
22:59.59starseekerI wish I knew where those commands were actually being generated
23:15.11brlcadno problem ..
23:49.49*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050126

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050126

00:04.39brlcadar cru .libs/libpng.a  example.o ... pngwtran.o pngwutil.o~ranlib .libs/libpng.a  for example
00:05.03brlcad~ww
00:05.07ibotThere is no such thing as the wrong window, just wrong people
00:30.49janoergh
00:30.54janoi want to go take more pictures.
00:30.56jano:D
02:16.36*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-208-191-39-126.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
02:45.28*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
03:50.27starseekerbrlcad - did full build of current cvs - no luck :-(
03:51.40starseekertalk about an annoying problem
04:09.13brlcadstarseeker: looking at that now
04:09.19brlcadlooks like a different issue that the others
05:52.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/acinclude.m4: update libtool.m4 source to 1.5.10's. apply s/~$RANLIB/ ; $RANLIB/ fix so that libtool 1.5 on os x doesn't choke on the ~
07:20.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix encounters with version numbers that don't have a patch number (e.g. libtool 1.5), also fix version checks to actually stop checking minor/patch numbers if our major/minor are greater than required.
13:58.17*** join/#brlcad kraig01 (~kraig@dsl-63-173-191-32.tcq.net)
15:29.23brlcadstarseeker: made some changes that hopefully fix the sandbox problem..
15:30.40brlcadstarseeker: a cvs status on configure.ac should show 14.24 when you are up to date
15:37.06NidhoggrI couldn't find my dev cd last night.  you'd think if you could download xcode online, you could download the x11 sdk.
15:45.19brlcadoof
15:45.29brlcadNidhoggr: looking now, i've got that disc here
15:45.37Nidhoggrcool, thanks.
15:49.50Nidhoggrno wonder brlcad is so pokey.
15:49.57Nidhoggrhe keeps getting poked.
15:50.02janoeveryone poke!
15:50.15janoawee
15:50.29Nidhoggreek!
15:52.44brlcad~poke jano
15:52.46ibotbut then who will poke the pokers, brlcad?
15:54.35janothat's right
15:59.11brlcadNidhoggr: uploaded to secretplace in my home as X11SDK.pkg.tar.gz
15:59.43Nidhoggrthank you very much, brlcad !!!
16:01.33brlcadheh, thank me when it compiles
16:01.46brlcaddamn me before then
16:01.54Nidhoggr:)
16:30.12Nidhoggrbrlcad: any estimate how long to compile on 1.3 ghz powerbook g4 with 1 gb ram?
16:30.25Nidhoggrit's doing pretty good so far.
16:36.14brlcadhalf hour or so would be my guess
16:36.20Nidhoggrcool
16:41.42Nidhoggrmake completes, but make install errors. :)
16:41.53brlcadahh, yes.. cvs up ;)
16:42.09brlcaddang.. forgot to mention that.. *blush*
16:42.09Nidhoggrhrm. I'm using the tarball you sent.
16:42.12Nidhoggrhang on.
16:42.31brlcadahh, yes .. same problem on the tarball
16:42.48Nidhoggrcan I just fix the ~ranlib thing?
16:43.24brlcadyes
16:43.32Nidhoggrit's doing ~ranlib instead of ; ranlib
16:43.57brlcadreplace all "~" in acinclude.m4 with " ; "
16:45.06brlcadperl -pi -e "s/~/ ; /" acinclude.m4
16:46.01brlcader, oop s/~/ ; /g
16:49.37Nidhoggrdo I need to do "make" again, etc? or will it work with just make install?
16:52.53brlcadmight as well make; make install
16:52.56brlcadjust don't make clean ;)
16:57.12Nidhoggrsomething wacked out and I biffed dir and untarred again. re-running perl command, etc.
17:39.54Nidhoggrwow. make install takes almost as long as make. :)
17:43.59brlcadyep
17:44.19brlcadgets fun when I compile on the altix and it takes only 2 minutes to compile
17:44.42Nidhoggrnow how do I check out what it can do? :)
17:44.43brlcadyet make install takes like 5 minutes .. make clean takes seemingly forever too
17:44.57Nidhoggrnod
17:45.08brlcadhttp://brlcad.org Documents section .. the overview and then intro to mged are good places to start
17:45.27Nidhoggrcool.
17:47.41*** join/#brlcad Pimpinulla (~frank@p508215A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:59.51brlcadhello Pimpinulla
18:00.03Pimpinullahey
18:00.19Pimpinullawhat was brl-cad's license before?
18:01.34Pimpinullalooks interesting, never heard of it before
18:01.42brlcadit's actually always been fairly open
18:02.05brlcadyou could get the sourcecode or binaries and make your own modifications
18:02.10brlcadvery gplesque
18:02.33brlcadbut .. you had to fill out an agreement form, fax/mail it back in and wait for a license "key"
18:02.39Pimpinullai always wondered about the origin of your nick ;)
18:02.51Pimpinullaic
18:02.55brlcadthat "key" was a decryption key that allowed you to decrypt and install
18:03.12brlcadand the filing paperwork usually took a week or two
18:03.24Nidhoggrjust ran the bench stuff.  kinda fun.
18:03.27brlcadinternational requests had to go through security screenings, etc
18:03.29Pimpinullais it your project?
18:03.52brlcadi'm one of the maintainers now
18:03.52Pimpinullaoh, some kind of military?
18:04.13brlcadbut I didn't start it -- the package has been around for over 20 years
18:04.21brlcadwritten by Mike Muuss originally
18:05.03Pimpinullalooks like i have to give it a try :)
18:05.05brlcadhe's the guy that wrote "ping"
18:05.25Pimpinullaoh...well...
18:05.28brlcadas well as ttcp and several aspects of the original tcp stack and bsd internals
18:06.09Pimpinullaa real pioneer
18:06.49brlcadhe was a brilliant man
18:07.11Pimpinullawas...
18:07.15Pimpinullaic
18:07.16brlcada real honor to work with .. had a passion for just about everything he did, very smart
18:07.33brlcadyeah, he died in an accident several years ago
18:07.55Pimpinullaand you worked with him?
18:08.39Pimpinullayou're not that old yourself, no? not 30 yet iirc?
18:09.12brlcadi worked with him for about a year
18:09.37brlcadhe was the reason I came to work here .. wanted to be his "apprentice" of sorts
18:10.10Pimpinellawhere do you work?
18:10.11brlcadas he was one of the few people on the planet that I'd actually call a wizard
18:11.37Pimpinellathere're never enough ppl of that sore
18:11.41Pimpinellathere're never enough ppl of that sort
18:14.41Pimpinellalater
18:16.36brlcadcya
18:31.29janohmm
22:06.16starseekerpreparing to do new ebuild test now...
22:07.43*** join/#brlcad tjyang (~Administr@c-67-175-74-12.client.comcast.net)
22:20.58starseekerand heeeere we go!
22:47.30brlcadweeee.. ;)
22:47.54starseekerstilllll building - nothing outlasts the brlcad build!
22:49.30brlcadparallel builds are fun ;)
22:50.00brlcada 12 node altix is the fastest I've seen to date
22:50.35brlcadcompiled in almost exactly 2 minutes with default options
22:50.43brlcadtook longer to install or do a make clean
22:52.09brlcadaltix isn't a cluster, it's smp
22:52.11starseekerbuild st-build complete ;-)
22:52.24brlcadsoo. it worked?!
22:52.35starseekerno no, simulating a build on an altix ;-)
22:52.45brlcadahh heh
22:52.51starseekermy machine's a wimp by modern standards - probably another 10 minutes or so yet
22:53.41brlcadautogen.sh takes over two minutes on my fast home machine
22:53.53starseekerI believe it.
22:54.37starseekerI need to check out a new AMD64+1Gig ram+2 Raptor hard drives
22:55.03starseekerwhen I get money, of course
22:55.35starseekerBRL-CAD Release 7.0.4, Build 20050126
22:55.35starseekerElapsed compilation time: 29 minutes, 52 seconds
22:55.35starseekerElapsed time since configuration: 31 minutes, 17 seconds
22:55.41starseekernow the moment of truth...
22:57.45starseekerDid you see the announcements?  OpenSolaris is coming, and EROS is now Coyotos
22:57.52brlcadyep
22:58.26brlcadmost isn't
22:58.44brlcadwe were _very_ close to going with a different OSI-approved license
22:58.51brlcadthat would have been non-gpl compatible
22:59.07starseekerTrue, but can you imagine a Solaris with the strength of the Linux kernel integrated into it?  It would change the face of computing
22:59.16starseekerbrlcad:  Can't say I blame you
22:59.34brlcadI talked with the gnu legal aids for several weeks trying to figure out what it would take to make it compatible
22:59.46starseekerheh - bet that was fun
22:59.53brlcadnot really
23:00.13starseekerTim Daly got so sick of licensing issues during the Axiom discussions
23:00.31starseekerand some of the most annoying threads in Maxima history were about our little export laws notice
23:00.50starseekerThe problem is, it IS that important.  Lawyers rule the world :-(
23:00.57brlcadespecially their position that was being taken.. very much "if it's not gnu, it shouldn't be used" regardless of the fact that at the time we could NOT use the gpl
23:01.24brlcadthe gpl is going nowhere in government because it's a license that's based on copyright law
23:01.39starseekerYes, they basically piss off everyone who isn't one of the faithful
23:01.45brlcadthe government cannot claim copyright on their works, they can only be assigned copyright
23:01.57starseekerOh, good point.
23:02.16starseekerBut if they can't claim copyright, doesn't that make them public domain?
23:02.27starseekerexcept where export restrictions come into play?
23:02.30brlcadnot in the least
23:02.45starseekerweird
23:03.04brlcadthey can still be confidential, unreleaseable, limited distribution, or under contract
23:03.20brlcadtake brl-cad's old agreement for example
23:03.28brlcadit was technically a contractual agreement
23:03.35starseekerHmm.  Good point
23:03.45brlcadthe osi-approved NOSA is a contractual agreement
23:04.00brlcadit's the first osi-approved license that is based on contract law instead of copyright law
23:04.23starseekerAh.  But I suppose that fact itself makes it GPL incompatible?
23:04.30brlcadwhich is exactly why NASA made it.. they couldn't use the gnu licenses without extreme difficulty and in some cases impossibilities
23:05.02brlcadno it doesn't .. the incompatibility has to do with subtleties in the redistribution requirements
23:05.11starseekerah
23:05.32brlcadheh
23:05.34starseekerno wonder you didn't like talking to GNU - they're the DEFINITION of anal retentive when it comes to stuff like that
23:05.43starseekerSUCCESS - NO SANDBOX ERRORS!!!!
23:05.52brlcadWOOT!
23:05.56brlcad~starseeker++
23:06.23brlcadexcellent.. then i'll post up a 7.0.4-2 tonight
23:07.29brlcadi didn't mind talking to gnu folks.. but they weren't very helpful in our situation
23:08.02starseekerI which they'd get used to that situation - there are many incredible tools that the government could relase if it were so inclined
23:08.23starseekermged starts up - what's a good test to run to make sure this sucker's working?
23:08.39brlcadheh, if mged started, that's a pretty big test
23:09.15starseekerWill I need to leave the running of autogen.sh in the ebuild, or will the tarball be ready for configure?
23:09.15brlcadmm.. can try to open one of the .g files in db/
23:09.19brlcadand raytrace it
23:09.32brlcadthe tarball will be ready for configure
23:10.01starseekerlet's see where the db dir went...
23:10.35starseekerhmm - not installed apparently
23:10.44starseekerno matter - where's that cvs dir?
23:11.47starseekerI don't see any .g files in db/ are they generated in the build?
23:13.06brlcaddb is not installed
23:13.29brlcadthe .g's are made during make
23:14.00brlcadif not, you can "asc2g havoc.asc havoc.g"
23:14.09brlcadthat will convert it
23:14.17brlcadmoss.asc is nice and simple
23:14.31brlcadhavoc is mildly detailed enough to be interesting
23:15.06starseekerok, here we go...
23:15.59starseekerit opened - a helicopter?
23:16.06starseekerhow do I raytrace?
23:16.49starseekerhmm
23:17.09starseekerbrlcad:  should there be a picture by default in the Graphics Window when I open this file?
23:18.15brlcadnope
23:19.03starseekerWell, I got something that looks like a helicopter - how do I tell it to raytrace?
23:19.32starseekerOh, nevermind
23:20.03starseekersomehow, by accident, I got something.  But when I clicked the dismiss button on the raytracer before the render was done, things froze
23:22.12brlcadthere's a raytrace control panel
23:22.16starseekerotherwise, it's WORKING!!! WOOT!
23:22.17brlcadon file, iirc
23:22.23starseekerfound it :)
23:22.29brlcadyeah, it's working ;)  excellent
23:22.48Nidhoggryeah.. I changed a drawing, and re-ran raytrace, and it locked up the process. :)
23:23.01tjyangbrlcad, is your solaris box back online ?
23:24.06brlcadtjyang: it was a hardware failure .. it'll be a while
23:24.11starseekerbrlcad - what are you going to call the tarball?
23:24.24starseekerbrlcad-7.0.4-r2.tar.bz2?
23:24.36janolet's call it hubert
23:24.39starseekerbrlcad-7.0.4-2.tar.bz2?
23:24.44janohubert.tarball
23:24.45jano:)
23:24.54starseekerNah, I'd cut it down to bert
23:25.06starseekerbert the cad
23:25.22brlcadtjyang: pastebin the sys_errlist error, and I can try a fix here in the meantime
23:25.42brlcadwith a coupling cam package called ernie
23:26.23tjyangbrlcad, I will try to find ther error message.
23:26.56brlcadstarseeker: not sure.. good question
23:29.31brlcadstarseeker: probably the latter  brlcad-7.0.4-2.tar.bz2
23:30.19brlcadalthough sf stats are down
23:30.23brlcadso might just replace existing
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23:35.24tjyangbrlcad, I have the error message when compiling into.c on solaris using gcc. what should I do now ? can post a few lines here ?
23:36.04starseekerbrlcad - if you can do that, it would be easiest
23:36.42starseekeralthought I told the gentoo bug it would be revision two, so if you change the 7.0.4 tarball out let me know and I'll fix it
23:43.13tjyangbrlcad, while waiting your response, I googled around with the error message and found this link "http://www.radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/2002-June/000283.html"
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23:50.42tjyangbrlcad, do you still need the error message from into.c ?
23:55.52tjyanginto.c compiled fine on rh linux but in rh linux /usr/include/bit/sys_errlist.h it says "/* sys_errlist and sys_nerr are deprecated.  Use strerror instead.  */"
23:58.31brlcadbeing deprecated is fine.. that's a warning
23:58.41brlcadyou saw an actual error, though?
23:59.14tjyangyes, I still have the log
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050127

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050127

00:00.00tjyanginto.c:127 line is like this "            sys_errlist[errno], argv[1]);
00:00.00tjyang"
00:00.11tjyangthis need to be modified.
00:01.35tjyanghmm, I am no good at everthing. I can't debug C code now.
00:04.51tjyangfrom here http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/strerror.html
00:05.46tjyangI plan to change "sys_errlist[errno]" -> "strerror(errno)", sounds right ?
00:11.51starseekerOK, time for errands
00:17.09tjyang<PROTECTED>
00:17.30tjyangit is compiling ahead now.
00:23.34tjyangbrlcad, both solaris and hpux are compiling now. can you verify and modify the into.c source ?
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03:15.34noybbrlcad: how is it going over here?  seems like the rush is over.
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04:49.34brlcadnoyb: it's going great .. still quite a flurry of activity actually
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06:29.21noybhey, did you give anymore thought to the bzflag export thingy?
06:32.18brlcadmost definately
06:32.27brlcadit's high on my to-do list
06:47.17noybum, if that export were done today, would that make brl-cad the only macosx bzflag editor, or is there another?
06:48.54noybI've been using vi to mod some maps that I downloaded...  I just don't want to start writing perl or python or tcl/wish stuff...
07:00.48brlcadit's be the only full-editor
07:01.06brlcadthe java editor might/should work, haven't played with it yet
07:17.50noybI should try it, I'll google for it.
07:39.14learnerit's not hosted anywhere.. i have a copy, thoguh
07:41.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: 7.0.5 cvs revision begins
07:44.13noybno wonder I couldn't find it...  
07:45.07noybwho wrote it?
07:45.34noybI'll guess trepan?
07:47.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
07:47.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: new important actions for next release .. build all src/other components
07:47.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: optionally. benchmark changes are not really compatible with current
07:47.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: statistics, so move to next protocol breaking release. add converter support
07:47.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: for common simple geometry formats.
07:49.02learnerthe java editor might/should work, haven't played with it yet
07:49.02CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: recheck AquaTk useability so we can decouple mac build from X11
07:49.36brlcadstarseeker: uploaded bz2 (sans -2)
07:51.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtcheck is ignoring fastgen tagged geometry since no multioverlap handler is set
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12:46.13starseekerok, building using tarball on sf
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15:19.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (10 files in 2 dirs): begin update to zlib 1.2.2, delete
15:25.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (15 files): begin update to zlib 1.2.2, delete old
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15:28.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (33 files in 7 dirs): update to zlib 1.2.2
15:30.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (27 files): update to zlib 1.2.2, modified files
15:38.59CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (crc32.h infback.c inflate.h Makefile.am): update to zlib 1.2.2, added
15:40.08Nidhoggrgoing to test and see how well bzfs runs on a cobalt raq4.
15:43.29Nidhoggroops ww :)
15:53.40brlcad:)
15:53.41CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/contrib/ (14 files in 3 dirs): update to zlib 1.2.2, contrib additions
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16:14.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new section started after 7.0.4, update to zlib 1.2.2
18:15.30starseekerOK, the ebuild in bugs.gentoo.org now works with the sf tarball - it should be ready for inclusion
18:15.43brlcadw00t!
18:16.02brlcadthanks so much for helping sort that out
18:16.38brlcadalmost to the point where I can start getting back to development too :)
18:16.44brlcadhave to make binaries now
18:24.37starseekermy pleasure.  Now with any luck you'll start getting slammed with bug reports ;-)
18:25.29brlcadbut I am REALLY anxious to get back into actually working on the code now :)
18:25.48brlcadif you would like to get in and help out in that regard as well, lemme know :)
18:28.15brlcaddoesn't need to be coding either.. docs, build system, whatever
18:28.59brlcadyou've been helpful enough already, so if you cvs access could help, just let me know
18:33.47starseekerOK, will do.  I've gotta finish this #@$@#% thesis first, though :-(
18:34.18starseekerok, back to work
18:43.04brlcadgood luck with it ;)
18:49.30janoin the land
18:49.33janowhere I was born
18:49.35janolived a man
18:49.40janowho sailed the seas
18:49.45janoand he told
18:49.47janous of his life
18:49.50janoin the land
18:49.52janoof submarines
18:49.59jano(everybody now)
18:50.04janowe all live in a yellow submarine
18:50.17janoyellow submarine
18:50.25janoyellow submarine
19:00.11Pimpinellajano: lonesome?
19:00.19Pimpinella;)
19:03.28janono
19:03.43janoi just have to take out my frustrations of work elsewhere
19:04.32janowe've got this f-ed up franchisee who is totally under and now we're dealing with his landlord who barely speaks english
19:08.28janothe denny's he owns does very well in sales.. over $1.3m now
19:08.53janobut he hasn't paid any payroll taxes, property taxes, income taxes
19:08.59janohe owes over $700k to the government
19:09.15janoand then he owes money to SBA around $350k
19:09.37janoand the landlord hates this guy because he somehow offended him
19:09.54janoand makes it tough to talk to him because he just can't speak english
19:10.06janoit's like trying to talk to a water sprinkler
19:10.20janoor maybe a firesprinkler
19:10.51janoand I lost my togo's deal a couple weeks ago
19:10.58janothat sucked
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19:11.07janothis is one rough year
19:11.24janoi need a time machine to go back to 5 years old
19:18.16Pimpinellahm, so whats your job exactly?
19:18.31Pimpinelladealing with taxes and landlords
19:44.19janocommercial real estate
19:44.30janospecifically franchises
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050128

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050128

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050129

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050129

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04:32.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
04:32.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: fix problem where an unspecified prefix configure resulted in an
04:32.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: INSTALL_DIRECTORY set to NONE, causing mged/libbu to not find it's resources.
04:32.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: rename INSTALL_DIRECTORY back to BRLCAD_ROOT, but perform checks and make
04:32.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: warnings if it's set at the time of configure. abort if both bc_root is set and
04:32.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: --prefix mismatch.
04:37.46CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: s/INSTALL_DIRECTORY/BRLCAD_ROOT/ whilst fixing the undefined prefix configure problem
04:49.05CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed need for brlcad_root on default configure
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22:15.33janobork
22:26.00learnerbork
22:30.30jano:)
22:42.30janodid you see my latest landscape?
22:42.59janojust missed the sunset
22:43.09janoand my blending skills need a bit of work
22:43.19janobut composition.. i think i'm slowly understanding it
22:43.20janohttp://jano.smugmug.com/photos/14958537-M.jpg
22:43.25janohttp://jano.smugmug.com/photos/14958538-M.jpg
22:43.45learnernice
22:43.50learneri know where that is, don't I :)
22:44.02janoyeah.. i took you there, didn't i?
22:44.05janonext to the pilgrim?
22:44.19janoor we didn't go there?
22:44.23learnerprobably
22:44.26learnerdon't know it by name
22:44.31janoit's dana point
22:44.40janojust below tail point
22:44.48janotail point being that beautiful lookout over the see
22:44.56janowhere many a people get tail
22:44.57jano:D
22:45.47janotail point being here:
22:45.48janohttp://jano.smugmug.com/photos/4644779-M.jpg
22:47.26learnerwe went up there, I believe
22:47.29janoor right here: http://jano.smugmug.com/photos/1807065-M.jpg
22:47.52janoyeah, we went up there, but didn't get any tail
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050130

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050130

04:22.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (8 files): initial stub script to make a package distribution
04:32.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: add make_*.sh package scripts
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04:42.09brlcadtimmmay!
04:42.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: swap @ECHO@ for $(ECHO). add initial support for various package systems including pkg,dmg,rpm,deb,tar,tgz,tbz,&zip; package build rules tie into sh/make_*.sh scripts.
05:07.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: script is beginning to take on a life of it's own. claim copyright and assign it under bsd license to u.s. gov for the next release (author may still retain/claim copyright on his own version).
05:20.32janobork!
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06:30.10*** join/#brlcad denton (~anonymous@4.33.235.31)
06:31.58dentonI downloaded the tgz from several US sources via Sourceforge.net.  Gzip choked, saying something about a premature EOF.  Anybody had problems lately?
06:37.48dentonHere's the quote, "gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file"
06:38.28dentonOf course tar has issues thereafter as well, but I think the decompression is the main problem.
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13:59.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 4 dirs): newline at end of file
14:48.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (20 files in 6 dirs): copyright update from army to government and 2005
15:08.57janoi remember having had that problem years ago
15:09.01janoi forget how to fix it though
15:19.07dentonDo you think it's a gzip problem or is it my error?  I always use tar -zxvf <filename>  I even used gzip -d <filename>  I remember there used to be a password for the old licensing.
15:20.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtray.1: copyright update from army to government and 2005
15:22.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/animmate/rt.html: copyright update from army to government and 2005
16:17.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: don't bother formatting new block copyright line to 70 exactly since we just have to fix the wrapping of the 'the' after a year
16:22.25brlcaddenton: the ia32 tgz is corrupted
16:22.42brlcadthe upload apparently didn't complete successfully
16:45.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: headers use a different copyright line now, so just look for United States. ignore all of other/ now too.
16:47.55brlcaddenton: i'm working on making new binaries for 7.0.4, so there should be a new download soon
16:48.03brlcadprobably within a day or two if all goes well
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17:07.45janobork!
17:07.46jano:)
17:07.49janodid you see photos?
17:11.26dentonHey, brlcad, thanks.  I asked some of the guys in my LUG and they said the same thing, so I was just waiting for the next post.  I'm excited to try the newer 7.0.4.  I haven't checked this thing out yet, but it looks slick.  I'll keep checking SF.
17:13.51brlcadjano: yep, nice
17:14.44brlcaddenton: you can join the brlcad-news mailing list and get notification there (it's a read-only low-volume list)
17:15.14brlcadlikewise you can enable a "watch" on the BRL-CAD for Linux files section
17:15.30brlcadto get the most immediate notification of when the actual file is posted
18:50.31*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
19:04.11dentonbrlcad: The monitoring took a bit of figuring out on SF, but I got it.  Is this where I subscribe to the email list CAD-REQUEST@ARL.ARMY.MIL ?  I got it off of the old site.
19:09.00brlcadthe old list was migrated to brlcad-users and brlcad-news on sourceforge
19:09.33brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292
19:20.45dentonoops.  I didn't think to look under admin.  I'm all set now.  Thanks to everyone for all the hard work on the project.  Bye for now :)
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20:23.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: disable commit e-mails for copyright update
20:30.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (282 files in 17 dirs): update copyright to 2005
20:31.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (617 files in 26 dirs): update copyright to 2005
20:31.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (423 files in 19 dirs): update copyright to 2005
20:33.06brlcadthat's a lot of files
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20:42.38amathishmm
20:44.10learnerhmmm
20:44.33amathis:P
20:45.05amathisI have no idea what it is for, but it looks cool. :)
20:52.35learnerdownloading the ia32?
20:52.57learnerthat's a corrupted upload .. /me needs to delete it and upload a new one
21:00.59amathisyeah
21:01.03amathisthat was what I was downloading
21:01.11amathisprdownload.sf.net seems VERY VERY slow
21:01.27amathisshould I just get BRL-CAD SOURCE ?
21:26.17brlcadyeah
21:26.22brlcadthat's probably best
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22:23.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: re-enable commit e-mails after copyright update
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23:30.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_sketch.c: fix bug where 0 segments cause a 0-length malloc. this was not possible until sketch generation code was modified to create an empty sketch
23:36.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: disable creation of a default sketch. now an empty sketch is created as it's much less likely that the user wanted our default.
23:44.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Sketch Editor now starts with an empty sketch
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050131

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050131

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01:42.23EricWilhelmbrlcad, are you working on the sketch editor, or is that just a quickfix?
01:46.58EricWilhelmre: autocad compatibility - I would be interested in getting dwg import/export working (have done some work on this before)
01:48.07EricWilhelmI've already got an OpenDWG binding, so I might be persuaded to work on that just to get something that runs, but I would prefer to do it via a GPL library (there is something started from the pythoncad project) but this would be a step backwards in functionality right now824
01:48.37EricWilhelmalso, I've done a little research on ACIS (probably of more interest for brlcad usage)
03:26.29brlcadEricWilhelm: that's just a small fix
03:27.46brlcadit's been a long time since I've read the full dwg spec, but I'd have to imagine that there are some components of the drawing format missing from brl
03:27.59brlcadcad's sketch primitive
03:29.33brlcadthat said, it should do most of the actual geometry via the points, lines, curves, splines support that sketch already stores
03:34.43brlcadquickly glancing over the spec (just now), it looks like pretty much all of it will import/export easily enough directly -- the hardest part might be the layer and styles blocks .. i.e. what does a dashed line mean to a solid modeler?  .. could perhaps just make it an attribute, though
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04:09.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: initialize vars and avoid grep error output on unknown files (with an unknown commentchar)
04:11.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: only copyright 2005 by gov
04:13.07EricWilhelmbrlcad, sketches are one issue, ACIS solids are another
04:13.38EricWilhelm(the sketch lives within the .g file right?)
04:14.38EricWilhelmI could certainly see pulling a 2D dxf/dwg into the sketcher, but a lot of people (I used to be one of them) use AutoCAD for solid modeling, which means embedded (and needlessly encrypted) ACIS data.
04:16.35EricWilhelmthe uber-converter is all about resolving the differences between different types of programs, so what to do with dashed lines and blocks is not just an issue for BRLCAD, it's an issue for anything running on a more complicated format than rhizopod
04:16.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (8 files): headers and footers
04:16.58brlcadyou could stash the entire file into the .g as a binary object
04:17.37EricWilhelmno, I mean the sketcher saves the sketch within the .g?
04:18.26brlcadpresently yes, the sketcher saves a "sketch" primitive into the .g just like any other primitive
04:20.29EricWilhelmdxf-g doesn't add sketches to an existing .g file?  (just smashes the output argument?)
04:22.50EricWilhelmseems like a better usage model might be to import selectively from the sketcher.
04:23.15EricWilhelmbut, you still aren't getting any 3D data that way
04:23.42EricWilhelmdwg/dxf supports wireframe, solid, and surface data
04:24.32brlcadit imports POLYLINE, VERTEX, LINE, CIRCLE, ARC, and 3DFACE
04:26.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.1: typo
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06:28.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: initial untested implementation that should generate an installer pkg that is compatible with both the old and new Installer
06:30.58brlcadoooh, almost worked first try
06:32.07brlcadonly missing one " char
06:36.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: cool, only missing a single quote char
06:36.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: update the pkg target with the args that make_pkg.sh now requires
08:35.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/elapsed.sh: should prevent error messages on malformed input better. args are stashed before proceeding now. checks are made to handle if we were actually passed a familiar date string, defaulting to the current time otherwise.
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21:39.43polyspinGood afternoon
21:43.26janogood morning
21:43.28jano:D
21:53.38polyspinWhat time zone are you "living" in ;-)
22:24.52janoI'm pretending to be in hawaii right now
22:25.15janolet's se.. it's almost noon there
22:25.25janoI'd probably be waking up now
22:25.49janothen have a small tropical juice
22:25.53janograb the surfboard
22:26.14janobut instead, i'm only in california where it's about 80 degrees outside
22:26.17janoclear skies
22:26.22jano:P~~~~~~
22:26.38janoworst part is it's already afternoon
22:26.44janoi hate that white stuff
22:26.46janoit's cold
22:27.02polyspinit's what you can do *with* it that is fun
22:27.05janoit's fun to look at..
22:27.14janobut make it part of an entire season
22:27.17janohmm
22:27.19janoshoveling
22:27.20janoscraping
22:27.25janofreezing
22:27.39janoi prefer brushing warm sand off my feet, thank you :)
22:27.41polyspindays off
22:27.56janoask learner/brlcad i have my surf days off :D
22:27.58polyspinsnowmen & snow angels with my 3-yr old
22:28.09polyspinBecause the surf is up?
22:28.24polyspinGosh, I didn't think busineses did that
22:28.31janomine does :D
22:28.36polyspinI can imagine that you *take* those days off
22:28.43janooh, I do
22:28.48janoadn the business supports it
22:28.55janothey're like, sure, go ahead!
22:29.02janoin fact, they were wondering why I wasn't out today
22:29.20janoi can't begin to describe what a marvelously beautiful day it is today
22:29.45janosanta ana winds came in last night and cleared everything.. i could see the hollywood sign on my way to work
22:29.54janoevery face was visible on catalina island
22:29.59jano:D
22:30.37janoall right, i should get back to work
22:30.39jano:P
23:28.41brlcadhowdy folks
23:28.51polyspinEvenin
23:29.01polyspinGot another one up and running this afternoon
23:29.21brlcadanother what? :)
23:29.40polyspinAnother site.
23:29.45brlcadahh
23:29.57polyspinFolks trying to build without the --prefix have had ... problems
23:30.08brlcadI know, I fixed that yesterday
23:30.19brlcadprefix is "NONE" if you don't define it
23:30.34polyspinJRA said something about libraries not getting ".so" the other day.
23:30.43brlcadso the root was getting set to that along with a variety of TCL vars
23:30.49brlcadyeah, he told me
23:31.00polyspinOK, so you've heard.  I haven't had time to look.
23:31.45brlcadthe --prefix one took most of the weekend to figure out, but it should be all better now
23:31.58polyspinhow did you fix?
23:32.02brlcadnow configure will complain if brlcad_root is set too, and abort if it doesn't match prefix
23:32.21brlcadand recommend to not use it period
23:33.53brlcadalmost have the make_pkg.sh working
23:34.17polyspinyow!
23:34.20brlcadit builds it all up quite nicely now, but there's a few fixes it needs, and I need to feed it resources for things like the readme
23:35.08brlcadthere's a make_*.sh for various build systems that hook into the top level make file too
23:35.32brlcadso you can "make dmg" or "make tgz" etc to make the binary distribution
23:35.52polyspinI like!!
23:36.01brlcaddmg, pkg, deb, tgz, tbz, zip, and rpm for now
23:36.33brlcadpkg and rpm are the only working ones for now, but the structure is in place
23:36.44polyspinas my son would say... awesome!
23:36.47brlcadheh
23:37.49polyspinI've just patched the old pkgen engine enough to work.  Just got my first clean run.
23:38.02polyspinI'm counting the hours I have to work on this thing now.
23:38.08brlcadas your son would say... awesome :)
23:39.59polyspinit sure is pretty under cooca though.
23:41.40brlcadgah.. no wonder wireless is all screwy now..
23:41.57brlcadthere's like 3 nodes I'm competing with ..
23:42.13brlcadlooks like some folks got wireless for christmas
23:42.26polyspinheh, just use one of the others 8-)
23:43.00janohahah
23:43.11janowe often get virus emails here at work
23:43.22janoi look through the headers and logs and figure out where they come from
23:43.33janothen.. just try to telnet in to the ip
23:43.53janofrom there, sometimes I accidentaly turn off the dsl modems :o
23:44.46janoalthough I'm no longer affiliated with computers, I maintain an unofficial knowhow :D
23:44.53janosssshhhhh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050201

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050201

00:03.30polyspinanyone know if a cocoa app can "know" the path to it's own executable?
00:06.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: ls file sizes are in bytes, we need kilobytes
00:07.06polyspinls -s?
00:07.09brlcadyes.. /me looks it up
00:11.06brlcadcouple ways
00:11.51brlcadCocoa way would be the NSBundle mainBundle class method
00:12.04brlcadCarbon way would be FSFindFolder()
00:12.25polyspinThanks.  I see that now.  I couldn't remember "bundle"
00:15.14polyspincool, build the extra app, drop it in the MacOSX folder and "pathForAuxiliaryExecutable" will *find* it
00:22.43polyspinI suspect the runtime env notes where the executable loads.  That's how the app can find the .nib files
01:18.33brlcad141 mb compressed for ia32 .. that is so odd
02:39.25brlcadugh
02:39.39brlcadthe .so problem is a libtool version conflict
02:45.45brlcadthe AC_PROG_LIBTOOL was added from 1.5, so if you run autogen.sh or autoreconf on a system with 1.4, it looses the suffix for shared libs..
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14:28.38janobork
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17:01.45brlcadhello slomo
17:01.54slomohowdy
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23:14.25polyspinYo ho ho!
23:21.04brlcadheh
23:23.06brlcadpolyspin: don't know if you saw, but I found the cause of the missing shared library suffix problem.. hopefully i'll figure out a good fix soon
23:23.19polyspinExcellent!
23:23.37polyspinI've been wrapping up pKgen to day.  It's almost completely behind me.
23:23.53polyspinPlaying with doxygen right now.  Looks way cool
23:24.16polyspinWhat was the gem from #gforge?
23:24.38polyspinWanna go to a movie tonight?  We're thinking of going to see Aviator
23:25.02brlcadyeah, kermit just called
23:25.15brlcadi'll be over in about 20
23:25.41polyspinab fab
23:26.39brlcadthe gforge folks helped solve a couple db problems, but the real gem is their docs..  their documentation is in docbook.  excellent example with makefile rules
23:27.10polyspinLike it better than doxygen?
23:29.39brlcadNo no..
23:29.52brlcaddifferent documentation needs
23:30.03brlcaddoxygen is the way to go for code/dev documentation
23:30.48brlcaddocbook would be where I'd go for things like the volumes
23:31.15polyspinYes.  For that I agree.
23:31.18brlcadyou can go from docbook to html, pdf, tek, txt, etc from a single formatted source
23:31.49brlcadplus, text format that could be shoved into cvs and organized/maintained there
23:32.37polyspinThe only problem is the lack of a nice, industry standard WYSIWYG editor.  We looked at Docbook a couple of years ago when writing Vol-II
23:32.49brlcadthe fact that they had a nice make-based functioning example was part of the gemmage
23:33.37polyspinhow familiar are you with doxygen?
23:33.53polyspinI'm looking to make a "section" that certain file's contents live in
23:34.00polyspinKnow hou?
23:34.07polyspins/u/w/
23:34.42brlcada per-file section?
23:34.54polyspinno.  A per-library section
23:35.03polyspineg. "libbu"
23:35.15brlcadmm.. groups
23:35.41brlcadi've ran across the syntax, but it's a pita to keep maintained sometimes
23:36.17polyspinI tried "addtogroup" but it doesn't provide enough content in the result.
23:36.30brlcadyou have to @defgroup somewhere
23:37.08brlcadand mark everything you want in it with @ingroup groupname
23:37.52brlcadyou can @ingroup group1 group2 group3 too
23:37.54polyspinyes.  addtogroup and defgroup are functionally similar
23:38.42brlcadright, just gets rid of the warning
23:39.58brlcadyou might be able to get away with putting an @ingroup in the file block
23:40.08brlcadto get the whole file contents added to some group
23:40.53brlcadthe file block is the first section in a file with a @file
23:41.59polyspiningroup does not work in the file section
23:44.35brlcadahh
23:45.20brlcadthat's odd. the docs say it can go there..
23:45.25brlcadhttp://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/commands.html#cmdingroup
23:47.23polyspinthx
23:48.28brlcadi've never used it, but @namespace might do the trick too
23:49.40polyspinIf I wrap the file in @addtogroup foo @{ ... @} it works
23:50.13brlcadahh, oops, yea :)
23:50.17brlcadminor detail :)
23:51.59polyspinArgh.  And it cannot be in the @file block
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050202

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050202

00:02.37brlcadtime to go?
00:03.29polyspinI suppose we could have separate doxygen trees for each library.  Alas, that means no cross-reference between the libraries.  sux.
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00:04.35polyspinit's time.
00:04.39brlcadif it's ever all even doxygenified even as a single doxygen master list
00:04.43brlcadit'd be a win
00:05.08polyspinyes.  I'd just like to make the doxification as useful as possible.
00:05.19polyspinOn your way?
00:05.22brlcadfortunately .. the comment blocks are there.. they just need a single * added :)
00:05.39brlcadi'm going to meet up with chuck at his house
00:05.54brlcadand pool from there
00:06.06polyspincya
00:06.12brlcadaiight.. cya there
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20:13.03narniawhat is the likelyhood that brlcad will eventually be able to import and use step ap203 files?
20:16.01narniaknock, knock anyone home?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050203

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050203

00:32.02brlcadhello narnia
00:34.40janobork
00:36.03brlcadnarnia: the likelihood is pretty good for ap203 and ap214
00:37.57brlcadbork
01:04.45janokrob
01:44.17PrezKennedygnip
01:48.22janoping
01:48.31janognop
01:48.38janognip gnop
01:48.39jano:D
03:21.49brlcadmm i wish
03:25.26amathisbrlcad: I just copmiled brlcad.
03:25.35amathisis there a program executible or something? :P
03:26.21brlcadamathis: yes, over 400 of them
03:26.42amathisheh
03:26.43amathis:P
03:26.54amathisis brlcad a library?
03:26.55brlcadamathis: suggest reading the docs on http://brlcad.org  .. vol I and II
03:27.05amathisdoes the CAD stand for computer aided drawing?
03:27.05brlcadmged is the modeler
03:27.22brlcadcomputer-aided design
03:27.26amathisah
03:27.26brlcad~cad
03:27.27iboti heard cad is a short of Control+Alt+Delte, a keycombo often used in M$ Windoze
03:27.29amathisthat is what I meant.
03:33.49brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD
04:29.26EricWilhelm~cadd
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04:31.27brlcad~CAD is also Computer-Aided Design (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAD)
04:31.28ibotokay, brlcad
04:32.03EricWilhelmman, it's like a puppy or something
04:33.32EricWilhelmso, what stands for Computer Aided Draughting? CAG?
04:33.33brlcad~cadd is computer-aided design and drafting
04:33.34ibotokay, brlcad
04:34.22brlcadwikipedia has a whole section for that ;)
04:34.24brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAD_%28disambiguation%29
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04:54.56brlcad~ww
04:54.57ibotHar har
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05:44.57narniaknock, knock anyone home?
05:45.08brlcadnope
05:45.36narniabrlcad, hello. anytime frame for step ap203 support?
05:46.45brlcadit's hard to say right now.  The formulations for the mid-term and long-term plans are still being discussed
05:50.17brlcadat least next fiscal year's plans are on the design table now
05:50.31brlcadit's definitely a must have item for down the road
05:50.51brlcadif someone gets really interested in helping to implement it, then it may happen much sooner
05:51.34brlcadotherwise, we're looking at minimally many months in the least .. ap203 is rather complex
05:53.21brlcadI'm hoping to have a minimal prototype converter ready by this summer .. but that may be wishful given how much interest there's been and how much needs to be done
05:54.36brlcadheck, we still don't have proper binaries posted yet and it's been a couple weeks
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06:06.57narniabrlcad, you still here?
06:07.26narniabrlcad, sorry i am bouncing between computers.
06:26.48brlcadnarnia: yes, I am
06:28.04brlcadnarnia: if you are a developer and are interested in helping out with a step converter (or know someone whom is), please let me know and we can perhaps work together to accelerate the implementation
06:33.49noyb7.0.4 already... it was 7.0.0 when it was released to open source?
06:34.12brlcadniet, it was not
06:34.24brlcad7.0.1 was open source revision (CVS revision)
06:34.40brlcad7.0.0 was released a couple weeks before
06:34.51brlcadso the binaries were decrypted and posted
06:34.58brlcad7.0.6 is almost ready
06:37.16noybah...
06:38.38noybare you getting some new people involved in the project or are all of the changes still internal?
06:41.14brlcadquite open for getting new people involved
06:41.29brlcadit's not all internal already, but still primarily
06:43.01narniabrlcad, may i msg you?
06:44.33brlcadheh, sure (and no need to ask in the future)
06:45.25noybI don't think I'm qualified to participate.  I'm not a regular cad user, and I'm not a serious programmer.  I'm a perl/shell kinda guy.
06:46.53brlcadnoyb: there's always room for contributions
06:47.02brlcadit's a very large codebase with lots of room for help
06:47.16noybI'm no good with tcl either...  :)
06:47.51brlcadthere's shell scripts, php, java, tcl, and C as is
06:48.35brlcadmanpages, documentation, doxygen, docbook, Makefiles, test suites, benchmark suite, et
06:48.43noybI tried to build an ambitious perl/tcl database front end, but...  I gave up.  I now *know* that I hate tcl.
06:49.21noybwhy are there so many languages at play here?
06:53.40brlcadvarious needs, people, years, history
06:54.16brlcadplus many other codes link to brl-cad's libraries.. and they are written in different languages
06:54.30brlcadC, fortran, java, Tcl come to mind
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07:19.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX || 7.0.4 Release Date is Today!
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14:25.28*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX || 7.0.4 Release Date is Today!
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20:59.54brlcadnarnia: ping
21:06.56janognop
21:46.15amathisbrlcad: I have trouble installing.
21:46.17amathishere is error
21:46.22amathisBackgrounding, please wait...
21:46.22amathisCan't find a usable tk.tcl in the following directories:
21:46.23amathis<PROTECTED>
21:46.36amathiswhat should I do?
21:49.58brlcaddid you set BRLCAD_ROOT?
21:50.24amathisyes
21:50.25brlcadand what version are you trying to instal;?
21:50.41amathisbrlcad: I got a different error when I didn't export BRLCAD_ROOt
21:50.50amathisand it is 7.0.4
21:50.55amathisnot the linux version on SF
21:50.58brlcadunset BRLCAD_ROOT
21:51.18amathisbrlcad: can I paste it here?
21:51.25brlcadsure
21:51.25amathisit isn't horifically big.
21:51.34amathisBackgrounding, please wait...
21:51.34amathisUnable to find the directory that BRL-CAD is installed in while seeking:
21:51.34amathis<PROTECTED>
21:51.34amathisThis version of LIBBU was compiled to expect BRL-CAD in:
21:51.34amathis<PROTECTED>
21:51.36amathisbut it is no longer there.
21:51.39amathis<PROTECTED>
21:51.41amathisplease set your environment variable BRLCAD_ROOT to the correct path,
21:51.44brlcadahh, yes
21:51.44amathisand re-run this program.
21:51.46amathiscsh/tcsh users:
21:51.49amathis<PROTECTED>
21:51.51amathissh/bash users:
21:51.54amathis<PROTECTED>
21:51.56amathisbu_brlcad_path()
21:51.59brlcadthat was recently fixed in CVS ..
21:51.59amathis<PROTECTED>
21:52.03brlcadyou set the root wrong
21:52.07amathisI did?
21:52.12brlcadexport BRLCAD_ROOT=/usr/brlcad
21:52.16amathisoh
21:52.16amathiso
21:52.25amathisI don't have a /usr/brlcad
21:52.30amathisI just did a  'make'
21:52.33amathisit never needed rot
21:52.34brlcadahh
21:52.36amathis*root
21:52.46amathisI set it to /home/amathis/brlcad-7.0.4
21:52.47brlcadso how are you trying to run mged?
21:52.57amathisamathis@corinth brlcad-7.0.4 $ pwd        
21:52.57amathis/home/amathis/brlcad-7.0.4
21:53.04amathisamathis@corinth brlcad-7.0.4 $ ./src/mged/mged
21:53.23amathisshould I 'make install' ?
21:53.27brlcadyeah.. that work work like that
21:53.44brlcadif you want to run it without installing, try to cd src/mged first, but more will fail
21:53.56amathisI am just going to install it
21:53.59brlcadmged uses many external binaries that are in other directories
21:54.40amathisdoing it now.
21:54.54amathisman, you will enjoy the last episodes of Stargate Atlantis
21:55.13brlcadwhich one is that?
21:55.19brlcadi saw last week's
21:55.20amathisepisode 19 and 20
21:55.26amathisI mean the LAST of the season.
21:55.34brlcadahh
21:55.40brlcadyou're cheating, eh? :)
21:55.53amathiswatched UK's because I am watching SG-1 from season 1 through 8
21:55.54amathis:)
21:56.25amathisbrlcad looks pretty cool.
21:56.27amathiswas reading through it.
21:56.59amathisinteresting that it is opensource and on SourceForge.
21:57.26narniabrlcad, pong
21:58.14amathisbrlcad: ok, install done.
21:58.29brlcadamathis: SG atlantis is on sf.net? :)
21:58.45brlcadnarnia: got your messages, glad to hear you're interested
21:58.57amathisbrlcad: no.. brlcad :P
21:58.58narniabrlcad, good.
21:59.25amathisbrlcad: ok, I exported brlcad_root as /usr/brlcad
21:59.29narniabrlcad, do you happen to have the iso specifications for ap203 and ap214?
21:59.32amathisand now when I try to execute mged it gies this:
22:00.10amathisbrlcad: nevermind
22:00.12amathisfixed it
22:00.26brlcadamathis: have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path ;)
22:00.53brlcadnarnia: yes and no
22:00.55amathisbrlcad: yeah :)
22:01.01amathisbrlcad: wow.. this looks interesting :)
22:01.08narniabrlcad, umm definite maybe. ;-)
22:01.36brlcadnarnia: the specifications are enormous and I don't have them in electronic form (or a means to get them in that form easily)
22:02.02brlcadI do, however, have several ap203 and ap214 files
22:02.15narniaamathis, i would suggest working through the tutorial to get a good feel of what brlcad is capable of doing.
22:02.46brlcadamathis: i'd suggest the same too -- volume II on http://brlcad.org
22:03.02narniabrlcad, ap203 and ap214 files i have. i was hoping someone had the iso documents.
22:03.03amathisnarnia: heh, I was going to do that when I had time.. trying to release a project, homework, a new business, and a work ^_^
22:03.24brlcadand play bz of course
22:03.50amathisbrlcad: when have yo seen me playing bz lately? :)
22:03.58amathisI have no aliases.
22:04.09brlcadheh, when have you seen ME play lately? :)
22:04.20amathis:P
22:06.25narniaif i may ask may we have an age check? i will go first. 53yo.
22:06.59amathisah
22:07.06amathis17, 18 on the 25th
22:08.10narniaamathis, an advance happy birthday then.
22:08.39brlcadnarnia: I'm one of the core devs for bz is why that came up
22:09.41narniabrlcad, i have no idea what bz is. i am too old to play video games. being basically one-handed does not help either.
22:09.54brlcadnever too old :)
22:10.15brlcadone of our other core devs is in his mid 70's and he still plays (rather well)
22:10.42brlcadi can understand how the hand could be diffidcult, though
22:10.45narniabrlcad, i would assume he has two working hands.
22:12.27narniabrlcad, how did you become involved with brl-cad?
22:13.14narniaopps be back later news in on.
22:13.34brlcadnarnia: I became inolved with the project over 7 years ago when I started working for the team
22:14.08brlcadworked part-time under Mike for about another year after that, and then joined in full time shortly thereafter
22:14.11janoseven
22:14.18janoit's more like.. 10, no?
22:14.27brlcadhrm
22:14.31brlcadmaybe 8
22:14.35brlcadnot 10
22:14.38janookay
22:14.43janotime frame getting all messed up
22:14.45janomaybe 7
22:14.58brlcad'98 iirc
22:14.58janowe were done with second year.. or third year when you started?
22:15.21janowhere you there year before jason met nettie?
22:15.29janoor was it all that year?
22:15.43brlcadall about the same time
22:16.47janohmm
22:28.27narniaback
22:58.19janohttp://nationalfranchisesales.com/busy.pdf
22:58.24janodoncha just hate when that happens?!
23:08.21amathisbrlcad: could I PM you with a spanish problem?
23:08.33Nidhoggrhi amathis
23:08.42amathishi Nidhoggr !
23:08.53amathisNidhoggr: almost got my sit totally done.. then I am tackling yours....
23:09.07Nidhoggrcool
23:09.09amathisNidhoggr: if you can find translators, I will put in code to have multi languages per users
23:09.12amathis:P
23:09.16Nidhoggrah.
23:10.16amathisNidhoggr: tu hablas espanol?
23:10.24Nidhoggrnope
23:10.37Nidhoggronly enough to get myself slapped.
23:10.48Nidhoggralthough, I can do Mass in spanish. :)
23:10.56Nidhoggrit's all typed up for me though.
23:11.59brlcadamathis: claro
23:13.17amathis?
23:13.32amathisclear?
23:13.39amathiswhat is clear?
23:13.53Nidhoggrhi brlcad
23:13.58brlcadthat's not what that means there
23:14.19amathisbrlcad: I am spanish 1 sadly.
23:14.22amathisbrlcad: :)
23:14.24amathishumor me
23:14.30amathistranslate this
23:14.33brlcadIf you are "clear" that you need to do something.. what do you think might be another word for what that is?
23:15.29amathisof course
23:15.55brlcadif you are "of course" that you at.. no  try again
23:16.23brlcadlooking for a word to replace clear there
23:17.01brlcadand this is a spanish 1 question :P
23:17.33brlcadcan't help till you figure out what claro means :)
23:19.55amathishaha
23:20.25amathis.. apparent, clear, of course...
23:20.46brlcadof course would be por supuesto
23:21.00brlcadapparent is apparentamente
23:21.10brlcader, apparently, at least
23:21.19brlcadclose though
23:22.42amathisbrlcad: I am not doing homework ^_^
23:22.52amathisbut
23:22.55amathisI will try anyway
23:23.30amathisI asked you a question that would get a yes or no..
23:23.45amathisso why would claro not mean of course?
23:24.36brlcadwhat's another way to say of course in english?
23:24.57amathissure.
23:25.11amathisok
23:25.18amathisanytime
23:27.30amathisbrb
23:29.12*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
23:29.12*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX || 7.0.4 Release Date is Today!
23:31.20janoabsolutley
23:35.57amathisback
23:35.57amathisbrlcad: am I wrong?
23:38.22amathisheh
23:38.30brlcadamathis: heh, yep, that was right
23:40.13brlcadwhat was your "final answer"? :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050204

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050204

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04:39.27polyspinYellow
04:39.42narniaperiwinkle
04:39.47narnia;-)
04:39.59polyspinfuchia ! ;-)
04:45.40narniapowder blue
04:46.34narniabrlcad, you ever heard of or looked at opencascade?
04:49.35narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
04:50.56polyspinI've looked briefly at it.
04:51.29polyspinNothing very in-depth.
04:52.49narniaopencascade has step ap203 and ap214 support.
04:53.08polyspinVery interesting!
04:53.40narniabrl-cad needs step ap203 and ap214 support.
04:53.57polyspinI agree.
04:54.19narniause opencascase for guidance in getting step ap203 and ap214 working for brl-cad
04:57.52narniabrb
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06:30.00narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
06:34.41narniabrlcad, you are here. late night?
06:36.02brlcadusual night ;)
06:36.51narniabrlcad, any thoughts on how to obtain the iso specifications for ap203 and ap214?
06:37.37brlcadI looked into it a little bit today, but in short -- not really
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06:40.03brlcadcould perhaps collaborate with folks that work on Cubit over at sandia national labs
06:41.00brlcadthey have a conversion library already written that supports step and other formats
06:41.17brlcadas well as an excellent FEM generator library
06:41.59brlcadI'd still like to see a stand-alone converter, though, for brl-cad purposes
06:46.20brlcadthere's a slim chance that it might get put on the funded tasklist for next year too (in which case it's a done deal regardless)
06:49.58narniawonder what the swiss franc to usd exchange rate is?
06:50.24brlcad~change 1 USD to FR
06:55.00narniabe several hundred usd to purchase the two specifications.
07:00.42brlcadi'd start with just ap203 for starters, it's the more ubiquitous
07:01.05brlcadlike I said, I've got a printed copy over here -- do they have digitals?
07:09.01narniasorry was reading the iso site.
07:10.00narniaISO-10303-21, iso-10303-23, iso-10303-24 would appear to be the smallest sub set absolutely needed.
07:13.32narniathen there is this http://ats.nist.gov/scl/ the nist step class library.
07:16.24narniathen there is this http://exp-engine.sourceforge.net/ Express Engine Project
07:23.38brlcadi've seen the last one .. very difficult to utilize them effectively it seemed
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07:38.55cad624howdy
07:39.07cad624yay, it works
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07:40.54brlcadwell that's just about ready
07:44.36narniaback
07:45.04narniawas googling for any more info on the various iso 10303 specs.
07:46.28narniabrlcad, which timezone are you in? i am in cst ( chicago ).
07:48.13brlcadest
07:49.50brlcadland of mary
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15:04.33janohttp://personal.r2-d2.cz/kaminky/0033/spiderman.jpg
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18:22.05janohey.. is the "bob" system up at jhu?
18:22.18janoor was it taken down?
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18:29.24brlcadhehe
18:29.30brlcadpoor spidey
18:30.03brlcadbob's still there, as far as I know
18:30.08brlcadname's changed though
18:43.47janothanks :)
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22:50.57cad869not quite..
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050205

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01:00.23brlcadthere
01:00.33brlcadnow c1;2cgi:irc is up and running
01:00.41brlcadhttp://irc.brlcad.org
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03:19.03EricWilhelmhmm. a bit slow?
03:21.19learnerslow?
03:21.28learnerbusy busy here :)
03:21.41EricWilhelm(irc.brlcad.org) maybe it doesn't play well with konqueror
03:23.01learnerahh
03:23.21learnerprobably the latter .. it's got issues with a variety of browsers
03:23.30learnerdid it give you a red warning?
03:33.55janobork
03:41.44learnersup
03:58.25brlcadahh, yes.. konqueror 2 is listed as a problem .. do you know your version string?
04:12.35janowait
04:12.37janoi'm confused
04:13.26janowhich one are you? :P
04:24.44brlcad:P
04:29.09jano:P
04:29.57EricWilhelmbrlcad, 3.2.2
04:30.15brlcadthat 'splains it
04:31.57brlcadthere, that should at least put the warning
04:32.02EricWilhelmis javascript required?
04:32.47brlcadcgi:irc does an unterminated streaming http to keep the irc connection open .. several browsers don't like that
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04:33.00brlcaddid you see the warning?
04:33.10cad329yeah, but it seems to work fine here
04:33.22brlcadah, that's good
04:33.28cad329one issue, is that I was using privoxy on the other computer
04:33.49janowarning?
04:34.01cad329this is the same konqueror, different workstation
04:34.11janooh
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04:34.16brlcadso it is working then
04:34.44EricWilhelmyeah, let me check the js settings
04:35.11cad329right, js is enabled here
04:36.33EricWilhelmno, must be privoxy (same js settings on both boxen)
04:36.48brlcadsupposed to just be a fall-back for the folks that no nothing about irc .. get them in and then make em find a real irc client ;)
04:37.32EricWilhelmI guess you can put something about 'apt-get install xchat' in the warning if you see Debian in their browser ID
04:54.27brlcadhehe
04:54.41brlcadmost of the folks I'd worry about are not using linux ;)
05:03.14narniabrlcad, hello, how goes it? concerning step files; what are your thought, ideas, dreams, etc for the step interface?
05:04.30brlcadwhat do you mean?
05:04.54brlcadideally we'll have a full ap203/214 step-g and g-step converter ;)
05:06.27brlcaddreams are to have it completed at least functionally sometime this summer before siggraph
05:10.54brlcadsame goes for a prototype of the new project management interface that wraps all the tools
05:18.22narniabrlcad, okay
05:20.03brlcadnarnia: what are your thoughts?
05:24.36narniabrlcad, well first need iso-10303-21 at a minimum to understand the syntax of the step files. using iso-10303-21 or the nist step library parse the step files.
05:25.45narniabrlcad, the next phase would be to determine how step constructs map to brl-cad g, and create the mappings. this part would be bi-directional.
05:26.39narniabrlcad, the third phase would be to run as many step files through the step-g conversion to determine where the bugs, misktakes, errors, etc are.
05:26.56narniabrlcad, repeat as necessary.
05:29.26narniabrlcad, basically how would something like "#670499=CIRCLE('',#670498,9.E0);" map to brl-cad q?
05:30.35brlcadthe actual mapping is not going to be difficult at all -- most everything will map directly that has to do with actual geometry
05:31.06brlcadsplines might be complicated.. would have to see the inputs
05:31.38brlcada 2D shape maps to the sketch primitive (which has many subshapes including a circle/arc)
05:32.06narniabrlcad, that "#670498" above is a variable.
05:33.02brlcadall part of the express syntax, yes
05:33.23brlcad?
05:33.28narniabrlcad, are you asking or telling?
05:33.51brlcad:) asking
05:34.14narniabrlcad, all part of the express syntax, yes.
05:34.18brlcadfrom what I've seen of the actual file, there are a variety of express constructs that would have to be supported
05:34.32brlcadas part of the parser that builds a geometry tree
05:35.46brlcadin that simple form, it's just a named reference to a circle object -- you end up with substitutions under you have actual geometry
05:36.03narniabrlcad, having iso-10303-21 would allow for a lex, yacc ( flex,bison ) parser. or go for recursive-descent parser.
05:36.05brlcadconstraints will be a problem, though we can stash them into attributes for now
05:38.58narniabrb need decaf coffee.
05:43.10brlcadi'd very much agree
05:44.57brlcadI'm trying to track down where our printed copy came from
05:52.38narniabrlcad, have you heard of the 'enhanced machine controller (emc) project' at nist?
05:52.54brlcaddoesn't ring a bell
05:53.31narniathe emc project is also hosted on sourceforge.net.
05:54.50brlcadsounds like something related to milling and CAM
05:54.59narniait is.
05:55.07narniacnc
05:55.11brlcadahh
05:55.13narniag-code.
05:55.30narniai have worked on that project off and on.
05:56.20brlcadahh, generates g-code for cnc machines?
05:56.27brlcadlink?
05:56.34narniabrb
05:57.21narniahttps://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/
05:59.10narniaand my cad-cam project that i have been working on for several years. http://gnu-cad-cam.sourceforge.net/
06:00.06narniai have not updated that page in awhile.
06:00.21brlcadinteresting
06:01.53brlcadi see you're a bit off your timeline.. :)
06:02.18brlcadhow far into your implementation did you get?
06:03.21narniait is difficult to work on project when recovering from several surgeries over the years. since the work accident on 26 nov 1996 i have had 7 major surgeries.
06:03.49brlcadunderstandable
06:05.23narniapretty much to this point : http://gnu-cad-cam.sourceforge.net/block-diagrams.html#LEVEL-SIX-DETAIL-BLOCK-DIAGRAM
06:07.38narniahad some helpers over the years but events happen. one helper's mother died of breast cancer. one helper was killed in a car accident by a drunk driver. one helper got married.
06:07.49brlcadincredible complexity in the "process" block
06:08.49narniatool path routines still need alot of work.
06:09.05brlcadand how the human input interacts.. the gui/cli?
06:10.13narniacli, and lisp scripts.
06:11.22narniamy menu helper was the one who got married and started a family. she has higher priorities now.
06:12.24narniathe is no "wimp" interface. (wimp -- windows, icons, menus, pop-up/pop-down)
06:14.33brlcadyep, go that
06:15.12narniathe only controller it supports is emc.
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06:24.51narnianow that brl-cad is open source my dream is to have brl-cad eventually interface to emc.
06:25.45brlcadwould be a nice bridge to eventually have a path to g-code
06:31.47narniabrb
07:16.13narniaback
07:16.26narniahad to let the dog out and the cat in.
07:18.46brlcadwhat kind of dog?
07:21.59narniahuck is half border collie and half springer spanniel
07:22.42narniahuck is old like me and he has a pinched nerve in his neck. huck is having troublem walk and i am going to have to put him down soon. :-(
07:23.23narniahuck, has been my daily companion since 1996.
07:24.04narniawe got huck as a puppy in 1994.
08:06.05brlcad:(
08:06.08brlcadsorry to hear that
08:06.56brlcadmy dog's getting old too, born in '92
08:07.30brlcadhad his mother most of her life before him too
08:17.26narniait would cost 2-3k to operate on the pinched nerve in his neck. given huck's age the vet is not sure he would survive such a major surgery.
08:21.08narniai am beginning to nod off. i am calling it a night. talk with you later today perhaps.
08:21.23narniagoodnight and peaceful dreams
08:27.31brlcadalright
08:27.43brlcadthanks for the info earlier re your project
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050206

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050206

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06:00.58narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
06:03.01brlcadyep
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08:10.38narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
08:12.10narniabrlcad, i have been attempting to compile opencascade for most of yesterday and tonight. opencascade is a bloated piece of trash.
08:12.55narniabrlcad, numerous errors in the generation of makefiles. finally wrote a couple sed scripts to fix them.
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18:42.23PrezKennedyping-pong!!
19:06.24brlcad|.
19:08.10PrezKennedywebserver is running better now
19:08.16PrezKennedytheyre finally putting those upgrades in
19:08.30brlcadbout time
19:08.42brlcadpretty cool
19:08.45PrezKennedyyeah i tried that out
19:24.49narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
19:25.47narniabrlcad, did you see my msg concerning opencascade? i am still attempting to get it to compile. very sloppy makefiles.
19:28.24brlcadyes i did
19:28.48brlcadwhat's their code in?
19:28.59brlcadstraight makefiles or gnu build?
19:42.18narniabrlcad, they use automake and autoconf. several include dirs do not have the '-I' in front of them. flags which should be in CXXFLAGS are but in CFLAGS. the include dir for tcl/tk is written wrong. several hxx include files need patching of 'ifdefs', opencascade is written in extremely bloated c++.
19:44.35narniabrlcad, to give you an idea of just how bloated opencascade is the source code download is 210+mbytes. then they use of all things java to unpack the source download.
19:44.53brlcadheh
19:44.56brlcadnice
19:45.20narniabrlcad, bloatware at its finest.
19:45.43brlcadbut do they use a lisp interpreter to generate the Makefile.am's? :)
19:46.19narniabrlcad, do not know. not sure i want to know.
19:46.44brlcadperhaps a lisp interpreter written in python
19:47.25narniabrlcad, btw, the cxx files i have checked so far. zero comments. none, nil, zip, nada, etc.
19:48.01brlcadso.. looking REALLY promising is what you're trying to say? :)
19:51.19narniabrlcad, as any example for how not to write an application, yes, it fulfills that purpose.
19:51.45brlcad:)
19:52.30narniabrlcad, i take it you are not a football fan. the stupid bowl is today. ;-)
20:01.14brlcadheh, I might catch it -- not a fanatic though
20:12.25*** part/#brlcad amathis (~amathis@cpe-024-165-183-150.midsouth.rr.com)
22:34.07PrezKennedythe fact that its some team and some other team makes it even less exciting
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050207

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050207

00:23.00narniaamerican football should be played with m-16s and rocket-propelled gernades. last man standing wins. ;-)
00:23.41brlcadI'm not sure that's a pass I'd want to catch :)
03:07.17*** join/#brlcad brlcad (~brlcad@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:08.34brlcadwoo hoo.. drupal authentication fixed
03:08.40*** join/#brlcad starseeker (~starseeke@ip68-106-90-53.hr.hr.cox.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:08.45brlcadthough I'll probably leave it disabled for starters
03:09.17brlcadhello starseeker
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05:52.40narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
06:18.06*** join/#brlcad Pimpi (~frank@p50820334.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
06:31.49janobork!
06:31.52janodid you hear the news??
06:46.27janohttp://www.pbase.com/norman/eagles_and_salmon
06:46.27janowow
08:29.15starseekerhi brlcad
11:05.05*** join/#brlcad parasite- (~parasite@69-30-99-234.dv1sn.easystreet.com)
14:35.19*** join/#brlcad [Prez|Kennedy] (~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu)
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20:29.58narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
20:30.33brlcadis that an auto-return message?
21:33.25janoprobably
22:39.31[Prez|Kennedy]kill the auto-returner!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050208

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050208

02:18.56*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
02:47.31narniaknock, knock, anyone home? (this is not an auto-return, this is aslan typing from narnia. )
02:54.26polyspinJust me
02:54.55polyspinHaven't seen "brlcad" respond yet.
03:12.17brlcadhello
03:27.47polyspinGood evening.
03:27.53polyspinI just sent a note off to Joab
03:31.54polyspinSo cool to have media coverage.
03:32.37polyspinHave you taken a look at the "doxygen" output I dropped on the website?
03:35.32[Prez|Kennedy]wait... who are you again polyspin??
03:35.32polyspinLee
03:36.00[Prez|Kennedy]wheres the media coverage?
03:36.23polyspinWe've been contacted by someone from Government Computer News.  No publication date yet.
03:37.39[Prez|Kennedy]cool
03:38.44polyspinway cool
03:38.49polyspinbling
03:39.51brlcadbriefly looked at it
03:40.04brlcadhozed my browser when I hit librt :)
03:40.32polyspinbrlcad: Yes, that's one MOBY web page.
03:40.57brlcadi put up a cgi:irc over the weekend
03:41.10brlcadirc.brlcad.org
03:41.35brlcadit's a start
03:42.12*** join/#brlcad cad349 (~45fa921c@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:42.32polyspinnice.  Works reasonably in mozilla
03:42.52cad349nobody listens to that polyspin dufus do they?
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03:43.21*** part/#brlcad cad349 (~45fa921c@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:43.35brlcad:)
03:44.07obligatory_testi dont keep the people interested enough in my channel
03:44.12obligatory_testshould close up shop
03:44.27obligatory_testtalking to myself gets boring there...
03:44.44brlcadheh
03:44.49obligatory_testthe only time people go there is when they want something :-\
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03:47.16polyspintoo bad.  from the freshmeat article it looks like a cool package.
03:54.46[Prez|Kennedy]gotta check out the free webhosts once in awhile
03:58.01brlcadwoo hoo!  .. got it working
03:58.33brlcadPrezKennedy: offer still stands should you change your mind
03:59.22PrezKennedyi just look in case i need to store crap somewhere :-)
03:59.45brlcad1% usage
04:00.29PrezKennedycant leave my current home...
04:00.40PrezKennedymight do something else on .bz if its ok though
04:01.14brlcadpolyspin: it'd take video feeds or a lot more graphics
04:02.04brlcadjpgraph is cool :)
04:02.10polyspinwanna host the MacMod videos?
04:02.57brlcadI was thinking maybe freebsd mirror
04:03.18PrezKennedybrlcad, id like to do a wiki project.....
04:03.27polyspinthat's pretty low bandwidth.
04:03.47brlcadlooked into helping out wikipedia as a cache node
04:04.35brlcadbut they're presently shoveling almost 100Mbit/s in the US out of FL alone
04:05.05brlcadwhich explains why there performance is crap
04:06.23PrezKennedyits funny... whenever i read an article featured on their homepage i find something like "shit" or "fuck you" injected in the middle of a random paragraph
04:08.50polyspinHmm. the page on BRL-CAD is a little off.  Mike started it in 1979.
04:09.31polyspinI'll have to check that.
04:09.37brlcadI added that
04:09.45brlcadwas referring to code commits
04:09.57polyspinGot it.
04:10.19polyspinI think Earl Weaver made the challenge to Mike in '79.  I'll have to ask Earl.
04:10.32polyspinThat was the start of "vged"
04:17.23polyspin'nite all!
04:17.30PrezKennedygood night!
04:23.03brlcadwow, wasn't even close to thinking about sleep
04:23.16PrezKennedyhey that logging turned out to be useful!
04:23.32PrezKennedyawww man pick me up i have coupons!
04:23.33brlcadwhich logging?
04:23.39brlcadheh
04:23.58brlcadyou mean .bz's?
04:24.00PrezKennedythe logging you warn about in the greeting
04:24.03PrezKennedyyeah
04:24.37brlcadI've had to use it a couple times to recall something I did
04:24.46PrezKennedyyeah thats what im doing
04:24.59brlcadonly problem is the logs live in /var which doesn't have much disk space
04:25.06janoeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww
04:25.08janoMcD's
04:25.10janoyuck
04:25.11jano:P
04:25.16brlcadi've filled up /var twice already
04:25.35brlcadneed to link /var/log to /usr/var/log or something
04:25.39janoMcD's will fill more than /var
04:25.56janotry /tmp and /dev/hdc[0-9]
04:26.02jano:D
04:26.05brlcadnormally wouldn't have a mc'd craving, but I really do crave some fries for some reason
04:26.10PrezKennedywell it all goes into /dev/null anyways
04:26.17brlcadusually happens like once every 4 months :)
04:26.22janoI'm sure you've heard the news about jason, eh?
04:26.32brlcadyep :)
04:26.35brlcadcrazy
04:26.36jano:)
04:26.55PrezKennedytime to upload me some stuff and waste some space
04:27.03brlcadyay
04:28.08janoyeah
04:28.13janobackups would be good
04:28.16janoi need a place for phole
04:28.20brlcadmakes me nervous
04:28.33janoour electricity bill is running through the roof
04:28.48brlcadmy box here actually rsyncs it, but it's not as ideal as I'd like
04:29.05janodoesn't your service provider do backups?
04:29.30brlcadif I purchase it
04:30.06janoah
04:30.13brlcadmildly reasonable .. could do all of the existing data for a mere $10/month
04:30.35jano*shrug*
04:30.42janohow often they do backups?
04:30.49janodialy, weekly, monthly?
04:30.54brlcadit'd be daily
04:30.59janovery nice
04:31.22brlcadthe thing is I can have that all rsync to other systems here too
04:31.40janooo
04:31.45janorsync has some cool features
04:31.52janoi like the rolling backups with hard links
04:31.59janothat's some funky schtuff
04:32.19janoI got a heart rate monitor watch today :D
04:32.40janoso cool.. it like tells me if I'm working out too hard or not enough
04:32.45brlcadI have it set up now so that it'll do a bidirectional sync of directories I specify
04:32.48janoi feel like I've already lost two pounds
04:32.50brlcadonly a couple dirs in there
04:33.04brlcadahh, I love my heart rate monitor
04:33.07brlcadwhich one did you get?
04:33.27janopolar a5.. I originally bought the s120 for triathlon stuff, but it didn't have a backlight
04:33.39janothe next one up was too expensive
04:33.47janowhich do you have?
04:35.16brlcadpolar s150
04:35.30janoah
04:35.37janoyeah.. too expensive :)
04:35.54brlcadgot a great deal :)
04:35.57janolucky you!
04:36.05brlcadand it's the base one geared for cylists
04:36.09brlcader, cyclists
04:36.19janothe s series is for triathlon, no?
04:36.25janobiking, swimming, running
04:36.26brlcadstill haven't programmed it for my wheel size or anything
04:36.35janoi'm not allowed to bike :(
04:36.43brlcadheh
04:36.52brlcadyet you surf
04:37.05janocan't go surfing yet because of the sun :(
04:37.13janothis year started so good
04:38.01brlcadhttp://www.polar.fi/polar/channels/eng/segments/Cycling/S150.html
04:38.41brlcadi've worn it all day a couple times
04:39.01janohttp://www.polarusa.com/comparison/triathlon.html
04:39.25brlcadseem to have a heart rate slightly higher than most
04:39.35PrezKennedywhats the address again?
04:39.37janoyeah, i remember we talked about that
04:39.41PrezKennedyto get to public_html from the web?
04:40.27janoyou know what really ticked me off about polar?
04:40.34brlcadyeah, I remember that chart
04:40.38brlcadthe others are way to expensive
04:40.41janotheir low-end models don't have a frickin' light
04:40.50janoi like to go workout before dawn or after dark
04:40.51brlcadthough I would have liked the wireless bike sensor
04:41.02PrezKennedywas it ~prezkennedy?
04:41.18brlcadyep
04:41.26PrezKennedybzflag.bz/~prezkennedy?
04:41.27brlcader no
04:41.34brlcad~username
04:41.46janohttp://www.polarusa.com/consumer/walking/model/A5.asp <-- what I've got
04:41.48PrezKennedythats right
04:43.12brlcaddamn, I wanna go workout now
04:43.23brlcadAND go to Mc
04:43.25brlcadD's
04:43.41janohahah
04:44.11janoeewww
04:44.12brlcadhmm.. noticed last week that the one in abingdon is open 24-7 now
04:44.18brlcadtaco bell would work too
04:44.21janoyucky poo
04:44.25PrezKennedytheyre definitely open
04:44.27brlcadmust be a salt craving
04:44.28janodel taco better
04:44.30jano:P
04:44.39janodel taco has really good hamburgers
04:44.42jano:D
04:45.13janojust have some pringles
04:45.19janommm
04:48.00brlcadi have crab chips in my car..
04:48.16brlcadbut the thought of those fries is driving me nuts
04:48.16PrezKennedyso many shell accounts...
04:48.21brlcadfries and some tacos
04:49.20janodude
04:49.30janoI've had this aweful craving for blue crabs
04:50.35janoi'm thinking about making a trip out there, this time in season
04:50.40janowhat do you think?
04:52.00PrezKennedyyay i finally figured it out!
04:53.40brlcadmm.. crabs
04:53.51janohmm
04:53.54brlcadyou'd see nettie all huge
04:53.58janoyeah
04:54.04janothat'd be worth it :D
04:54.05janobut
04:54.12janoi don't want to get in the way
04:54.14janodangit
04:54.32janoi was gonna say wait until next year
04:54.41janobut.. then they're actually going to have a child in the house
04:54.49janomaybe I just stay in a hotel
04:56.19PrezKennedywow that fast...
04:56.47narniabrlcad, hello, how goes it? i am coming to the conclusion that opencascade is not being maintained. i found two glaring errors in two of the source files that anyone should have been able to catch.
04:57.12narniabrlcad, have you ever heard of 'names'?
04:58.09janobingo was his namo
05:00.19narniabrlcad, http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/Expo/expo16.html
05:01.06narnianames == North American Model Engineering Society
05:01.49narniabrlcad, the expo is where the guys from nists, fred proctor and others, show off enhanced machine controller.
05:02.15narniabrlcad, it would also be a place to show off brl-cad. hint hint.
05:02.28brlcadahh
05:03.41brlcadI follow the Solid Modeling assocation and a couple of the guys have presented papers there before, never heard of NAMES, though
05:03.46narniai have not been able to attend in years. not being able to drive sort of prevents my attending. :-(
05:04.04brlcadahh, not a conference.. just an expo?  8 bucks, wow.
05:04.57narniabrlcad, all the model egineer geeks get together. sort of a 'dog and pony' show.
05:06.15narniayou know what dod contractors are like . they but on a good 'dog and pony' show. or the 'cadillac' the prototype to show that they are able to build the item.
05:07.02narniawell this is were the model engineer geeks put on their 'dog and pony' show.
05:36.46narniabrlcad, just now finished compiling opencascade. the one sample app which will load a step file actually works. it is loading a step file for a yanmar diesel engine. step file 40+mbytes. good test to see if opencascade tanks or not. ;-)
05:42.07narniaknock, knock, anyone home? (this is not an auto-return, this is aslan typing from narnia. )
05:46.02brlcadahh, so it worked
05:46.13brlcad?
05:47.41narniabrlcad, ?????
05:49.23narniabrlcad, the sample app is still loading the step file. last attempt took 2+hrs to load the 40+mbyte step file. this is on a 1.4ghz amd anthlon with 1gbyte of ram.
05:49.31brlcadthe step import/export worked?
05:49.43brlcadgood grief
05:49.49brlcadthat's horrible
05:51.44narniabrlcad, well last attempted blew its brains out. ( seg fault ) i think i fix the code. i am not a c++ programmer. i am a c programmer.
05:52.17narniaimho c++ just leads to bloatware.
05:52.31brlcadheh
05:52.53brlcadwell brl-cad is one large and fairly well tuned c code :)
05:53.35brlcadonly bloat is probably in mged, and that's just because of tcl
05:53.36narniabrlcad, brl-cad is near bulletproof.
05:54.33*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
05:55.07brlcadc++ has it's uses if done well
05:55.19brlcadit's just so easy to use it poorly
05:55.26narniayes, which is extremely rare.
05:58.34narniastill loading.
05:59.28brlcadwhat license is opencascade under?
06:06.45narniabrlcad, you would have to read it. it is a rather odd opensource public license.
06:07.28narniai doubt is is compatible with gnu gpl.
06:07.34PrezKennedygrrr these tikiwiki people are killing me
06:08.40PrezKennedycan it reach france?
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06:15.48brlcadls -la
06:15.49narniabrlcad, well it finally loaded the step file and is displaying a wireframe of it. one minor program the diesel is resting on its fan blade. coordinate system must be hosed.
06:15.52narnia:-(
06:16.09brlcadahh, fun
06:16.20brlcadthat's easy to fix though
06:16.41*** join/#brlcad [Prez|Kennedy] (~Matthew@130.85.253.237)
06:16.53brlcadthough if they're not open source, it's not much use either
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06:17.58brlcadcept as a secondary conversion app
06:18.08narniai asked fred proctor at nist if he had a copy of the various iso step standards that i could borrow. i have not heard back from fred.
06:20.58brlcadif they're as cheap as you mentioned to get a copy, that would be easy enough
06:21.36brlcadit's just a matter of whether electronic copies are possible
06:21.47narniabrlcad, yes.
06:22.00narniabrlcad, pdf
06:22.13brlcadhrm.. that implies..
06:22.40narniacheckout www.ansi.org then find the webstore.
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06:59.34narniabrlcad, which two axis are probably swapped? any idea?
07:01.40narniabrlcad, more general question. in brl-cad x-axis is left-to-right, y-axis is front-to-back, z-axis is top-to-bottom. postive x-axis is which direction? positive y-axis is which direction? positive z-axis is which direction?
07:07.54learnerit's a "standard" right-hand coordinate system in brl-cad
07:08.14learnerimages are first quadrant, which might take a while to get used to
07:10.33learnerso in rh, positive z is the cross-prod. of x to y axes
07:11.33learneri.e. if you look at a top-down view, you are looking from positive to negative Z and standard 2d image quadrants apply (1st quadrand is positive x,y)
07:12.35learner2 | 1
07:12.40learner-----
07:12.44learner3 | 4
07:20.10narnialearner, okay got it.
07:21.35narnialearner, i will run mged later today and figure it out.
07:27.10learnermore specific to your example: pos x would be on the left, positive y is in front, positive z is up top
07:32.45learnerhttp://db.bzflag.bz/tmp/coordinates.jpg
07:33.18learnerack, ip change
07:34.08learnerhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/coordinates.jpg
07:47.38narnialearner, that does not tell me anything about the relationship of the axis to the screen. is x-axis left to right or front-to-back? is y-axis left to right or front-to-back?
07:48.37narnialearner, in either case x/y axis positive axis is into the screen.
07:48.58learnerhuh? you can view it from any one of those axes
07:50.14learneri.e. if you're looking down the Z axis, you're looking at +x on the right, -x on the left, y axis would be top-bottom
07:51.27narniayes that is true. but there is a 'world' view of the object. in cam/cnc/edm the z-axis is always top-to-bottom. the y-axis is normally the longer of the two axis x and y. the x-axis is the shorter of the two axis x and y.
07:52.24learnerahh, you mean what is brl-cad's up vector
07:52.37narniayes
07:53.02learnercompletely depends on the model :)
07:53.13learnersome are modeled with +z as up, some with +y
07:55.31learnermged itself treats +z as up
07:57.26learnerso if you ask for a top view, it's a top-down view where you're looking down the Z axis from +z
07:58.40narniayes, than positve y-axis is into the screen and positive x-axis is to the right and positive z-axis is up/sky/top
08:00.44learnernot quite
08:00.53learnerpositive y is out of the screen
08:01.30narnianot according to the diagram you had earlier.
08:02.00learnereh? .. it's almost showing you that already
08:02.07learner+y is coming towards you.. out of the screen
08:02.17learner+x is to the left, -x to the right
08:02.21learner+z up
09:53.52[Prez|Kennedy]movin to the new fileserver soon... gonna be faaaaaaast
10:23.32brlcadmovin to the old bed soon... gonna be sleeeping
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13:22.27tjyang2001where is the brlcad binaries for win32 ?
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18:18.52DarkMasterdidnt take long for my connection to die
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23:03.13brlcadahh, a modeler
23:05.45Griz_nitelol
23:05.49Griz_nitehey there ;)
23:05.57Griz_niteI'm thrilled
23:06.22Griz_nitefor ages and ages I'm using linux for everything else, but until recently I didn't find a CAD software that would do...
23:06.33Griz_niteexcept for architectural stuff where cycas is quite good...
23:06.43Griz_nitenow be sure I'll try brlcad soon...
23:06.52Griz_nitebut for tonite it's getting late, and I'm off
23:06.58Griz_nitegoodnite :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050209

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050209

00:19.35narniaknock, knock, anyone home? (this is not an auto-return, this is aslan typing from narnia. )
00:24.23EricWilhelmjust us lurkers
00:34.14janobork bork bork
00:46.50brlcadheh
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14:27.58Grizzly`<PROTECTED>
14:28.12Grizzly`that was very stupid indeed!
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17:09.12dentonHi, I was looking on SF and noticed the corrupt Linux binaries were still there (7.0.0).  I'm sure you folks are busy, but do you have an idea when the functional binaries will be posted?
18:05.07brlcaddenton: I've been meaning to fix that for days now
18:05.14brlcadyes, quite busy -- apologies
18:05.39brlcadI'll see if I can get that uploaded within 12 hours
18:17.16brlcadnarnia: page 18 of Volume III covers some more aspects of the coordinate systen that might be of interest
18:17.28brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf
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22:33.06dentonbrlcad: OK.  Thanks!
23:14.26*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050210

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050210

00:05.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot_include.c:
00:05.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: Fixed bad boundary condition where bot has EXACTLY rt_bot_minpieces triangles. This caused
00:05.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: the bot to have a bogus st_aradius, which caused the primitive to be deleted from the model.
03:40.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: sketches extruded with non-square AB vectors results in inner sketch components not getting scaled properly.
03:42.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed minimal BoT disappearance bug
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15:31.49*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX || 7.0.4 Release Date is Today!
16:34.53*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
16:34.54*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.0.2 Source is posted || Release 7.0.0 binaries now available for Linux and IRIX || 7.0.4 Release Date is Today!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050211

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050211

03:02.04*** join/#brlcad Pimpinella (~frank@p508203E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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06:18.46janobork
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07:59.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: unify the available options and add --version to just output versions; clean up alternate search dir searching.
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14:58.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/mkdirp.m4: move macro definitions from acinclude.m4 to their own directory; AM_PROG_MKDIR_P from automake 1.9
15:00.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: traverse the m4 directory too; use ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS to include m4 dir
15:01.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/acinclude.m4: move macro definitions from acinclude.m4 to their own m4 directory
15:05.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/Makefile.am: initial makefile to include m4 files
15:06.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the m4 directory makefile
15:15.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: generate a zip and bzip2 automatically when we make dist
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18:13.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: it shall be numbered 7.2.0 and release preparations begin
18:18.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: number it 7.2.0, mention the libtool incompatibility
18:25.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: preparations for release 7.2.0
18:29.31narniaknock, knock, anyone home? (this is not an autoreply. this is aslan typing form narnia. )
18:40.18*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
18:55.55jano~#
18:55.56ibothmm... # is pound, or hash, or sometimes the number sign. a tic-tac-toe board
18:56.00janoscreen shot of bash in action
18:56.01jano:D
18:56.14jano~
19:03.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: temporary BRL-CAD hack due to libtool incompatibility
19:13.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: remove the hack.. not sure of the specific version
21:17.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletovcr.c:
21:17.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: Fixed typo in main(): outfname was declared as a character, not a pointer to a character.
21:17.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: This meant it could not be passed to rle_open_f() as the filename
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22:12.32henrykq
22:12.35henrykstats
22:13.02henryk?
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22:16.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am:
22:16.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: The makefile was not re-running the regression test if the test had prevously
22:16.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: been run. Changed the target to a ".PHONY" so that the regression test is
22:16.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: ALWAYS run.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050212

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050212

01:20.34*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
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01:58.15narniaknock, knock, anyone home? (this is not an autoreply. this is aslan typing form narnia. )
02:06.12polyspinJust us chickens here
02:22.15polyspinexcellent on the wiki
02:24.52polyspinugh!   bwish doesn't build on Irix64
02:25.15brlcadehh..
02:25.32polyspinor rather, it builds but dumps core
02:25.36brlcadahh
02:26.14brlcadhrm, I recall that happening as a result of 64bitness inconsistencies
02:26.31brlcadthere's an environment variable to force 64bit iirc
02:27.03polyspinwe didn't need it for release 7.0
02:27.25polyspinI ws very careful to get the Irix build stuff in the bottom of INSTALL
02:27.39brlcadyeah, i remember..
02:28.00brlcadperhaps the environment var's still needed
02:28.40polyspinwhich env var?  what setting?
02:30.35brlcadnot positive, trying to find it -- setenv SGI_ABI 64 -- might be it
02:31.44brlcader "-64"
02:32.14polyspinLDFLAGS and CFLAGS both already include -64
02:32.48brlcadi know.. shouldn't need to
02:46.08polyspinWhat brought that comment on?
02:46.41PrezKennedy"you've been on my block list for a few months and so some odd reason i decided to unblock u and annoy you:-)...so hmm...who haven't you talked to in a while??"
02:50.19brlcadi think DVRs are one of those technologies that will eventually take off big once they fall below the $200 threshhold
02:50.47brlcadi get the same feeling of "can't live without" that I had with my dvd player years ago before they took off
02:51.02brlcadi've heard the same about xm radio.. should try it
02:54.09brlcadmy metric is usually when I no longer have to explain what it is or why they might care to other family members ;)
02:54.24brlcadlots of simple country folk
02:55.42brlcadi remember buying my parents a dvd player 7 years ago or something and having to explain why it was good
02:56.16polyspinPrez:  Held up awaiting funding
02:56.17brlcaddon't think they've used the vcr since (cept maybe some kids tape for visiting young folk)
02:58.26PrezKennedyill pass that on when i see people ask
02:58.31PrezKennedycuz they ask at least once a day
02:59.23polyspinI'll pass that along to mgmt, but I doubt they care who is asking for what.
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03:26.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: don't need to compile example.c
03:44.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/inv_cmap.c: Ancient syntax updated: static variable -> static int variable
03:57.44janoxm radio is nice
03:57.50janothe technology is very immature yet
04:14.18polyspinThank you jim jones ;-)
04:15.57brlcadhaha
04:16.44brlcadooooohh.. it's .. it's.. WORKING! ..
04:17.17polyspinworking?
04:17.26brlcadsomething else I've had in mind for a long time
04:17.42brlcadwrote a little lisp function
04:18.11brlcadto feed to emacs that makes it effectively perform a M-x indent-region
04:18.12polyspinThat's like doing a little crack
04:18.32brlcadi.e. apply automated consistent formatting
04:19.19brlcadnot nearly as rude to the sources as crafting an 'indent' script
04:19.31brlcadit just makes the file conform to the indentation specified in the footer
04:19.46brlcadand.. it even works :)
04:20.06brlcadwow, that's so cool :)
04:20.20brlcadI've wanted this script for years
04:20.34polyspinas my son would say: <i>awesome</i>
04:20.49brlcadit's a simple 7 lines of actual logic too
04:22.55polyspinYeah, but what's the log of the number of parentheses?
04:28.55brlcad:)
04:39.46PrezKennedyid like to reiterate what i said earlier
04:40.13polyspinabout the windows release? 8-)
04:40.23PrezKennedyyes that too
04:40.55PrezKennedylong live windows...
04:40.57PrezKennedyand all that stuff
04:41.28brlcadhe's on a mission
04:41.40PrezKennedyi say this because if it werent for windows i wouldnt have a job...
04:41.54PrezKennedyyou know... finding the cracked ones
04:42.14brlcadin mother russia, the cracked ones find YOU
04:42.34PrezKennedyso very true...
04:43.33PrezKennedyyeah tell my dad i said "long live windows"
04:43.42PrezKennedyill never hear the end of it
04:45.07brlcadhrm.. bwish worked here just fine when I exported SGI_ABI before the build
04:48.13polyspinbtclsh?
04:48.28brlcadalso fine
04:48.47brlcadbash-2.03$ btclsh
04:48.47brlcadbtclsh> puts hello
04:48.49brlcadhello
04:49.48brlcadahh, if I try to run the uninstalled one, it seg faults
04:49.55polyspinyeap.
04:50.18polyspinAnd that's what the "ami.tcl" script is trying to do.
04:50.26brlcadthat'd be a bug in libtool
04:50.35brlcadsince it makes those wrappers
04:50.46polyspinOh joy. 8-/
04:50.50brlcadit did a make install just fine for me though
04:51.34polyspinI've added a comment to the bottom of my copy of INSTALL to remind me to set the variable
04:51.43janospiderman
04:51.49janoruns around
04:51.52janoin a garbage can
04:52.07janospins a web
04:52.14janoand has a web cam
04:52.14brlcadlooks like btclsh runs fine as ./btclsh but bwish doesn't
04:52.16janolook out
04:52.19janohere comes spiderman
04:54.19polyspinjano: Pfffft!
04:54.59janopolyspin: f00f
04:55.51polyspinMonty Python rule #5:  No f00fters
04:55.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/batch-indent-region.el: initial batch-indent-region.el script that uses emacs batch mode to automatically indent the source code (less rude on modifying style than 'indent').
04:56.28janobah humbug
04:56.30*** join/#brlcad JesseW (~chatzilla@host-66-81-202-4.rev.o1.com)
04:56.40brlcadhello JesseW
04:56.46*** part/#brlcad JesseW (~chatzilla@host-66-81-202-4.rev.o1.com)
04:56.56polyspingoodbye JesseW
04:56.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: add batch-indent-region.el as well as other files that need to be distcleaned
04:57.18janohello
04:57.20janoi love you
04:57.24janowon't you tell me your name
04:57.29polyspinjano: no
04:57.46polyspinjano: are you drunk or stoned?
04:57.47janorider's on the storm
04:57.57polyspinwhich?
04:58.09janoi wonder if "bored" counts as a state of intoxication
04:58.26janoit certainly ends in an -ed
04:58.32janohmm
04:59.18polyspinIf jano's bored we can put him to work on the buglist
04:59.41janome with sourcecode, now there's a scary idea
05:00.18polyspinshades of rogue: an elf runs into the room and takes $25 from jano
05:00.18brlcada blender exporter that dumps brl-cad files ;)
05:00.24brlcadyou've written one before :P
05:00.37janohmm
05:00.51janomaybe i'm not so bored anymore.............................
05:00.56brlcadmm.. rouge
05:03.27polyspinhrm:  export SGI_ABI=-64 didn't change anything
05:03.44janohrrrm
05:03.51janoI wanna wanna wanna wanna fanta
05:04.50brlcadwierd
05:04.57brlcadso yours fails during install?
05:05.06polyspinduring build.
05:05.20brlcadhrm
05:05.34brlcadtclscripts dir i assume
05:05.51polyspinyeap
05:06.20janotcl?
05:06.21brlcadyeah, works cleanly here
05:06.26janotcl me elmo
05:07.01brlcadyou did a clean rebuild?
05:07.12brlcadfrom configure forward
05:08.00polyspinThought I did, but I'll do it again.  If I run the binary (not the wrapper script) it works.
05:08.14brlcadonly difference I can think of is the machines we're on if you did
05:08.25brlcadbash-2.03$ make
05:08.26brlcad<PROTECTED>
05:08.29brlcad../../src/tclscripts
05:08.30brlcad... etc etc
05:08.32brlcad<PROTECTED>
05:08.54polyspindoing make clean ; configure ...
05:09.46jano~#
05:09.47ibotrumour has it, # is pound, or hash, or sometimes the number sign. a tic-tac-toe board
05:09.50polyspinvast
05:10.47polyspinNo, not yet.  I'm consuming CPU
05:10.55brlcadheh, okay
05:11.48PrezKennedymmmm tacos
05:11.55PrezKennedytaco bell?
05:12.52janoeeewww
05:15.50PrezKennedysame place different name
05:16.07janowhere's the beef?
05:16.18janodel taco is different from taco bell
05:16.21jano:P
05:16.31PrezKennedythey should have gone with taco del
05:43.00polyspinWhere did you get the SGI_ABI variable name from?
05:43.18polyspinThat's right, he's out for tacos
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06:11.34polyspinevenin
06:13.20brlcadand begins enjoying tacos
06:13.40polyspinwas TB open this late?
06:13.47brlcadopen till 3
06:14.10brlcadthe McD's is open 24x7 now in abingdon
06:14.43polyspinWhere did you get the SGI_ABI variable name from?
06:16.11brlcadman abi
06:24.20polyspinI still can't get a clean build on VAST
06:24.55brlcadi'll see how mine goes
06:27.45brlcadhmm.. someone's got a run-away jove process running on vast
06:27.59brlcadwow..
06:28.19brlcadbeen running for over 36 days
06:28.51polyspinkermit has gone su a couple of times tonight.  I think maybe he's been trying to kill it.
06:28.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/other/ (14 files in 3 dirs):
06:28.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: Changes to quell compiler warnings on SGI.
06:28.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: Mostly turning "static var" into "static int var" or similar,
06:28.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: and deleting unused variable declarations.
06:31.38brlcadheh, I see you found a few more bugs in urt
06:31.53brlcadprobably news worthy
06:32.28polyspinI haven't committed NEWS yet
06:32.32brlcadsince a couple seem potentially crash-causing
06:32.35polyspinI was holding off on that
06:34.01polyspinyes.  I was just holding off the NEWS commit until I/we solve the SGI issue
06:35.30polyspinI also haven't committed "INSTALL" for the same reason.
06:36.04brlcadhave to be careful on INSTALL.. sometimes configure and/or autogen.sh will edit that file
06:36.19brlcadahh, though you did edi
06:36.24brlcadfor SGI_ABI
06:38.15polyspinedit, but not commmit
06:38.57brlcadhow's he doing?
06:39.08brlcadsleeping i hope..
06:39.36polyspinYes, though he just whined in his sleep.  I'm expecting him up soon.  He's due for more medication soon.
06:39.56polyspinHe's been real slug-ish tonight.  I've never seen him so sapped
06:41.07polyspinfever is down though
06:41.56brlcadthat's something at least
06:42.04brlcadpoor fella
06:43.46polyspinwhen you built on walrus, did you use cc?
06:44.36brlcadheh
06:44.48brlcadyou know.. i'm not sure..
06:45.35brlcadgcc would have defaulted to 32bit
06:45.36polyspintop
06:45.56polyspinsorry, wrong window
07:01.43polyspindid it work?
07:03.53brlcadstill installing
07:04.21polyspinThe build worked?
07:04.31polyspinwhich compiler?
07:04.31brlcadyep, no problem
07:04.36brlcadcc
07:05.44brlcadwhere did you run autogen.sh?
07:05.56brlcadinstalled cleanly too
07:06.22polyspinxon
07:06.23brlcadwhat does this give: grep VERSION= misc/ltmain.sh
07:07.03polyspin1.4.3
07:07.29polyspinwhere did you autogen?
07:07.50brlcadsame version here
07:11.45polyspinwhat's your path?
07:13.43brlcadi autogen'd on amdws1 iirc
07:15.53brlcadPATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/krb5/bin:/usr/brl/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/news/bin:/usr/bsd:/usr/local/bin:/usr/pine/bin:/usr/aos/bin:/etc:/usr/etc:/usr/X11/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin:/usr/mdqs/bin:/usr/gnu/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:.:
07:21.58polyspincan you compare your config file to mine: /vld3/butler/BRLCAD/mips64_brlcad-7.2.0
07:22.57brlcadheh, no difference
07:23.14polyspinI'm building in a shell with your path
07:23.27brlcadsame libtool and ltmain.sh too
07:24.05brlcaddifferent config.log's though
07:24.40polyspinsignificant?
07:25.04brlcadnot sure.. they're PATH lines
07:25.51brlcad/tmp/config_log.diff
07:26.07polyspinperm denied
07:26.17brlcadagain
07:32.32polyspinstill dies.  Which shell?
07:35.00brlcadbash
07:35.32polyspinis it /usr/gnu/bin/bash?
07:35.35brlcaddoesn't make much sense
07:35.52brlcadyes, /usr/gnu/bin/bash
07:37.26brlcad/tmp/set.txt for environment
07:38.00brlcadnever set anything up on vast, so it should all be default profile user settings except for SGI_ABI
07:42.53polyspinif that's the case, I should be able to delete my . files and have your environment
07:43.45brlcadwell, I do have a .profile that was preexisting
07:43.58brlcadlooks like a default user profile loaded from somewhere
07:51.04polyspinWhich make?
07:52.08brlcadgmake that last time
07:52.39brlcad./configure CC=cc CFLAGS=-64 LDFLAGS=-64 --enable-64bit-build --prefix=/usr/brlcad7.2/mips64
07:52.44brlcadgmake -j9
07:53.16polyspinI only used 7 procs.  Suppose that's it? ;-)
07:53.59polyspinbg
07:55.54brlcadheh
07:56.24brlcadhrm.. our binaries might be different
07:57.16polyspinsee /tmp/myset.txt
07:57.59brlcaddiff: /vld3/butler/BRLCAD/mips64_brlcad-7.2.0/src/bwish/btclsh: Permission denied
07:58.20brlcaddenied on myset too
07:59.10polyspinset on /tmp/myset, building the other now.
08:01.03polyspinperms set on btclsh
08:01.16polyspindies in the same place
08:07.30polyspinwtF is going on?
08:07.41brlcadi really don't see anything of significance different..
08:08.28brlcadtry running /vld/morrison/brlcad-7.2.0/src/bwish/btclsh
08:08.53polyspinperm denied
08:08.56brlcadyours does crash on me
08:09.19brlcadld64: WARNING 84 : ../../src/libpkg/.libs/libpkg.so is not used for resolving any symbol.
08:09.22brlcadld64: WARNING 84 : ../../src/libsysv/.libs/libsysv.so is not used for resolving any symbol.
08:09.25brlcadld64: WARNING 84 : ../../src/libwdb/.libs/libwdb.so is not used for resolving any symbol.
08:09.28brlcadld64: WARNING 84 : /usr/lib64/libz.a is not used for resolving any symbol.
08:09.30brlcadld64: Bus error.  Removing output file...
08:09.33brlcadcc INTERNAL ERROR:  /usr/lib32/cmplrs/ld64 returned non-zero status 1
08:09.35brlcadsame error?
08:09.52polyspinyes
08:10.48polyspinls -ld ~morrison
08:10.48polyspindrwx------   12 morrison graphics    4096 Feb 12 01:29 /vld/morrison
08:13.18brlcadfixed
08:14.44polyspinsays /vld/morrison/brlcad-7.2.0/src/bwish/btclsh[109]: lt-btclsh: cannot execute
08:15.35PrezKennedywhat fine program do you guys use to code?
08:16.03polyspinPK: depends on the code I'm writing
08:16.21polyspinJava: netbeans or eclipse
08:16.34polyspinC: emacs or eclipse
08:16.45polyspinanything on the mac: Xcode
08:16.59PrezKennedyvim forever!
08:17.12polyspinI love vi for some things.
08:18.14PrezKennedyi use vi to edit system files
08:18.45polyspinbrlcad: your umask is restrictive.
08:18.53brlcadtry again
08:18.59brlcadyeah yeah :)
08:19.24polyspinit runs for me
08:19.59PrezKennedyim looking at old essays i had to write for college
08:20.16brlcadldd is identical
08:20.23PrezKennedyits amazingly boring
08:21.05polyspinyour are using /usr/gnu/bin/sed in your btclsh script
08:21.27brlcadyes, and echo instead of print -r
08:21.46brlcadi assume that's because you wiped out your path
08:22.02brlcadhmm..
08:22.11brlcadyour binary works fine if I drop it in place
08:22.28brlcadso it must be something to do with sed/echo
08:22.29polyspinyes, and I can run my binary too.  It's the script that's broken
08:22.53polyspinI've copied your script.  I'm going to put my paths in it and see what happens
08:26.04polyspinIf I edit your script to put my build directories in, it dies.
08:26.28polyspinsee /vld3/butler/BRLCAD/mips64_brlcad-7.2.0/src/bwish/asdf
08:29.15brlcadif you use verbatim with my paths, does it work?
08:29.34polyspinIf I copy yours verbatim to my dir it works
08:29.44polyspinnot sure what that means yet.
08:29.52brlcadI can run asdf
08:30.10polyspinhmmm.  me too
08:31.11polyspinthat wasn't the case a moment ago.
08:31.20brlcadheh
08:36.28polyspinHmmm.  My btlcsh works now too.
08:36.35polyspinSomething's fishy.
08:36.41brlcadyes..
08:38.27polyspinmake clean ; make and now btclsh doesn't work
08:38.44polyspinnor does asdf
08:39.10brlcadat least it's consistent
08:39.24polyspinhow so?
08:39.34brlcadconsistently confusing
08:41.07polyspinok  If I run YOUR btclsh in MY directory, it "FIXES" something and then EVERYTHING works.
08:41.23brlcadmy script or my binary?
08:41.32polyspinyour script
08:42.14brlcadokay, regenerate it again.. we can try applying the diff one at a time
08:43.04polyspinok, it's broken again
08:45.09brlcadokay, i've got your dir in place of mine
08:45.13brlcadand it fails
08:45.25PrezKennedygnight
08:45.37polyspingnight PK
08:45.39brlcadcya
08:45.49PrezKennedyyep see ya later
08:46.01PrezKennedyor sooner... ;-)
08:46.31polyspinNow if I run my copy of your btclsh (./sean) I get: ld64: FATAL   9  : I/O error (cmd.o): Permission denied
08:46.57brlcadyeah, it's trying to link against my path
08:46.59brlcadumask
08:47.33brlcadfixed perms
08:48.21polyspinit creates "lt-btclsh" when I run your script I think
08:48.31brlcadyeah i was noticing that
08:50.37brlcadahh, our Makefiles differ ever so slightly
08:50.49brlcadthat's where the ECHO difference is coming from
08:51.18brlcadINSTALL is noticeably different but we're not to that step yet
08:52.35brlcadmy bwish is in src/backup if you want to diff
08:53.33polyspinwhich src?
08:53.52polyspinperm denied
08:53.55brlcadmy /vld/morrison/brlcad-7.2.0/src/backup
08:54.47brlcadfixed
08:57.02polyspinit's not the echo/print difference
08:57.28brlcadtry my Makefile?
08:57.54brlcadthat should minimize the script differences too
08:58.26polyspinno difference
08:59.14polyspinlibtool difference?
08:59.39brlcadeh, did you make clean after the new Makefile?
09:00.23polyspinyes
09:00.30polyspinjust in this directory
09:01.32brlcadyour btclsh still has echo=print -r
09:01.39polyspinyes
09:01.44brlcadyet your makefile has echo as gnubin ehco
09:01.58polyspininteresting isn't it?
09:02.09polyspinhere, watch the directory
09:02.25brlcadahh, our libtool's are different
09:02.28polyspinnotice all is gone
09:03.05brlcadoooh
09:03.08polyspinI think that's the issue
09:03.11brlcadfundamental libtool difference
09:03.20polyspinyes?
09:03.30brlcadyou don't run ranlib, I do
09:03.30polyspinother than print/echo
09:03.42polyspinHmmm.  Let me fix that.
09:03.51brlcads/:/ranlib/
09:04.24polyspinno, make clean ; ./configure with a new path
09:05.15brlcadhmm?  should just be able to edit the libtool script and rerun automake in src/bwish..
09:05.29brlcader, s/auto//
09:05.46polyspinNot any more.  I think it's a path issue with /usr/gnu/bin.  I'm rebuilding.
09:06.29polyspinone more minute ...
09:07.08brlcadhrm, that's not right..  configure.ac has ranlib set explicitly hidden in the tcl section..
09:07.36polyspinyours, mine, or both?
09:07.47brlcadboth
09:08.58polyspincompare the libtool's now
09:09.25brlcadno difference
09:10.34polyspinbuilding ...
09:11.05brlcadonly difference in the config.log now is that you have no prefix and I have a few more search dirs in my path
09:11.16brlcadresults of the tests should be identical though
09:11.35polyspinGrrr.  that means I forgot to set the prefix
09:11.42brlcadah, heh
09:13.20polyspinI hope this gets it. because I *really* need to sleep
09:14.03brlcadregardless if it works.. it's not clear what the fix needs to be
09:14.57brlcadif it's ranlib, that gets back to those various libtool.m4 files that I tried all last week to get working .. that's where the ranlib test comes from
09:15.16polyspinProbably something flakey with the build tools on VAST.  We need to make sure /usr/gnu/bin is last
09:15.22polyspinThough I had that before.
09:16.19brlcadpart of the problem is that we're not supposed to be using ranlib with cc
09:16.34polyspinar -t is equivalent
09:17.27brlcadi'll see if I can come up with a configure.ac test
09:17.27polyspinif this works, I'll try setting that in libtool
09:17.50brlcadyour should work now as it's identical to mine now
09:17.56brlcadyour set to "ranlib"
09:18.30polyspinI think it may actually be "ar -ts"
09:28.35polyspinGrrr.  Same error
09:32.35brlcadreally..
09:32.52polyspinyes
09:33.04polyspincompare the libtool's
09:33.24brlcadsame
09:40.09polyspininteresting: librt/libbn/libbu/libtcl8.4 are linked with absolute paths.  the others get relative paths
09:41.27brlcadthat would be due to their use of the brlcad_root I think
09:41.39brlcador other dependencies on @prefix@
09:43.57brlcadon an unrelated point.. the dependancy tracking seems to be completely disabled -- don't recall if it's ever worked yet, but it is off now meaning source edits won't force an update of their targets
09:52.21polyspinI have a theory about what's going wrong
09:53.11polyspinIt has to do with command line lengths.  The path to my directory is too long, and the link line exceeds the shell command line buffer.
09:53.17polyspinThat's my theory
09:53.38polyspinI edited the script to remove the libraries that btclsh doesn't need, and now it works.
09:53.46brlcadhrmmmmmmm
09:54.04brlcadperhaps try the exact same build in /tmp ?
09:54.31polyspinSomething like that.
10:12.33polyspinBINGO!
10:12.40polyspinI can sleep now.
10:12.55brlcadlooks like it skips the cmd line length check because we're using cc
10:13.19polyspinoops
10:13.27brlcadit doesn't even make it into the configure script
10:14.04polyspinis there another way we should be selecting cc?
10:14.42brlcadnot that I've ever read of or seen
10:15.03polyspinok.  I sleep now.
10:15.04brlcadI just think it's not a very frequently tested setup
10:15.34brlcadat least we know the problem now
10:15.49polyspinI wouldn't mind if it didn't try to seek out gcc, but took the first compiler in the path.
10:17.01polyspingnight
10:17.14brlcadnight
11:12.11*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@68.95.117.203) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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13:28.41*** part/#brlcad Falmarion (~c1ac3b12@bz.bzflag.bz)
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16:33.58Pimpinellawow 7.2 alredy?
16:34.25brlcadyeah
16:34.49Pimpinellaused your development turbo? ;)
16:35.07brlcadfeature-wise it's just 7.0.6, but we have to bump the minor number for other reasons
16:35.42Pimpinellaic
16:35.48brlcadhopefully it's the last time we'll have to do that
16:36.21Pimpinellado you have a minute for me?
16:36.43brlcadwe're still having to lay out distribution plans and information assurance plans for folks worried about this open source thing
16:37.01Pimpinellak, later than
16:37.10brlcadconfiguration management concerns
16:37.14brlcadsure, I've got a min
16:37.35Pimpinellaic, prolly switch to bz then ;)
18:26.44*** join/#brlcad manfred (~manfred@p54A26357.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:27.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: substitute LIBTOOL_DEPS which may or may not happen for us automatically in AC_PROG_LIBTOOL
18:30.56manfredIs there a brlcad newbie channel somewhere?
18:32.29manfredI have a body with a triangularized surface and I need an IGES file for that. What do you think - any changes to do that with xxx-g + g-iges?
18:32.49brlcadhello
18:33.10brlcadyou're hopefully at the right place, though we'll see how much help I can be :)
18:33.28brlcadwhat format is it in now?
18:34.07manfredno fixed format - I have vertex coordinates + line connection + triangle connections.
18:34.45brlcadare you familiar with the stl format?
18:34.51brlcadthat's probably the easiest hand-conversion
18:35.01brlcadthen stl-g | g-iges
18:35.03manfredOk, I'll look at it.
18:35.39brlcadthat is, the text version of stl
18:36.01brlcadanother alternative would be a direct import into brl-cad using the ascii database format
18:36.09manfredI'll start with reading stl-g.c
18:37.02manfredWhich geometry should I use? I a few hundred facets for one body.
18:37.28brlcadthe triangle primitive in brl-cad is called a BoT
18:37.35manfredOk.
18:37.35brlcad"Bag of Triangles"
18:37.49manfredYes, I read that term.
18:38.01brlcadthey can be oriented, unoriented, etc
18:38.13manfredOrientiation is not a problem, it's known.
18:38.21brlcadnmg's are also possible, but not recommended
18:38.51brlcadgeneric non-manifold geometry -- arbitrary polygons
18:39.08brlcadyou have triangles, though, so BoT's are way more appropriate :)
18:39.10manfredOk - I have triangles.
18:39.50manfredIs there a text documentation for the ascii database format somewhere?
18:43.27brlcadyes..
18:43.31manfredHmm - there is a rawbot.c
18:44.38brlcadhere's a simple example stl file:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/example.stl
18:45.06brlcadthat's a single object, a sphere
18:45.32manfredThanks.
18:45.44manfredWhat I have is more or less a deformed sphere.
18:45.55brlcadconvert that to .g with: stl-g example.stl example.g
18:47.42manfredThanks.
18:49.12brlcadthe same data in brl-cad v5 .asc format:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/example.asc
18:49.48manfredOk, thanks.
18:50.06manfredI've generated that already with stl-g + g2asc.
18:50.17brlcad:)
18:50.40manfredI think I have enough for now. Actually one of my collegues must solve the problem.
18:51.29manfredIt seems that brlcad could solve our problem. But we must get it running under Windows - how tricky is that?
18:51.45brlcadheh
18:51.53brlcadthat is the question of the year
18:52.08manfredJust the converters - I don't need mged.
18:52.23manfredPerhaps even cygwin is sufficient.
18:52.42brlcadthere's work under way to provide full binaries soon
18:53.18manfredNative Win32 or cygwin?
18:53.21brlcadthe code itself works on windows -- most of the delay is actually getting a build system in place that works on windows
18:53.51brlcada studio build was done several years ago, but it's completely out of data after the sources were totally reorganized
18:54.02brlcada new studio build is being done now though
18:54.42brlcada cygwin and/or msys|mingw build is also being worked on, but that involves removing some assumptions in the unix build files
18:55.31brlcadso there's some work still going on in that regard
18:56.25manfredOk, thanks.
18:57.08brlcadno problem
18:57.17manfredI wasn't aware that stl has such a simple triangle format. I'll try that approach first. Actually one of our target apps has an STL importer. But the other one needs iges.
18:57.31manfredHave a nice weekend
18:57.50brlcadstl can get nasty
18:58.01brlcadbut brl-cad exports it pretty clean
18:58.10manfredI don't have to read it - i'll just write it :-)
18:58.31brlcadwhat app is this, if I may ask?
18:58.46brlcads/app/use/
18:58.48manfredThe target would be Ansys
18:59.01manfredEither the classic ansys. It can only import IGES.
18:59.23brlcadahh, "them" :)
18:59.33manfredThe alternative target would be the new ansys workbench. An STL importer was added in the last version - no idea if it works.
18:59.45manfredIt's not even advertised by Ansys. Thus I don't trust it.
19:00.03brlcadmost cad packages do stl in some format
19:00.14manfredThe source app is surface evolver.
19:00.16brlcadit's one of the most generic non-proprietary research formats
19:00.50brlcadyou'll loose lots of data like material characteristics and shader information by going through stl -- it's simply geometry
19:00.58manfredIt's a small app for generating the shape of droplets of liquid.
19:00.59brlcadbut from your direction, it's acceptible
19:01.09brlcadahh, interested
19:01.12brlcader, interesting
19:01.13manfredNo problem - just one body, one material.
19:01.29manfredActually open source, too.
19:01.47brlcadanything on-line?
19:01.55brlcadscreenshots? :)
19:01.58manfredYes. Search for surface evolver brakke on the internet.
19:02.19manfredno nice screenshots - surface evolver is a command line only tool.
19:02.30manfredJust a few pictures of generated bodies.
19:02.32brlcadahh, I've been to that site recently
19:02.37brlcadvery recently.. hrm
19:02.41manfredhttp://www.susqu.edu/facstaff/b/brakke/evolver/evolver.html
19:02.49manfredReally?
19:02.55brlcadyeah, I've seen that
19:04.26brlcadit'd be interesting to see how that could be integrated into the new modeler
19:04.33brlcadfor dynamic geometry modeling
19:05.39manfredThe input files can be quite complex - you can specify arbitrary constrains and boundaries.
19:06.48manfredAnd lots of tricks to avoid numeric instabilities - replace some areas with integrals.
19:06.48brlcadwhat's the target purpose?  for generating the topologies?
19:06.59manfredYes, just topologies.
19:07.10brlcadvery interesting
19:07.37manfredOr for Mr. Brakke - topologies in some hyperdimensions. He's a mathematician.
19:07.51brlcadthere's a major modeling environment under development that this would be a great plug-in
19:08.31brlcadare you one of the users?  dev?
19:08.39manfredI'd contact Mr. Brakke. He's a nice guy. I had two questions so far, he replied immediately - he even send me a sample file.
19:09.09manfredFor Surface Evolver - just user.
19:09.38manfredBut I have a programming background, I'm still hacking in the Linux kernel.
19:09.51manfredThus a 16 MB tar.bz file doesn't scare me :-)
19:13.32brlcadwell when you finish up with that... ;)
19:15.06manfredThanks again for helping me. I'll keep you informed if we actually ended up using brlcad.
19:16.29manfredUnfortunately I don't see a chance of publication for any helpers that we might have to write. They would remain locked by my employer. I'll ask, but I doubt that I'll get a positive answer.
19:16.40manfredBye
19:16.40brlcadstay tuned to brlcad-news for the windows announcement
19:16.59brlcadcya
19:17.00PrezKennedychannel 0?
19:18.49*** join/#brlcad CIA-temp966 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
19:21.36CIA-temp966BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/xdr.c: M-x indent-region
19:26.03CIA-temp966BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: M-x indent-region
19:35.26CIA-temp966BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: more indent testing -- misplaced braces are nasty
20:51.54PrezKennedyive misplaced my braces...
20:52.05PrezKennedywill someone help me find them?
21:11.17janotry looking in a mirror?
21:11.18jano:P
21:11.20jano:B
21:18.39PrezKennedy:<>
21:35.57jano:D
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22:44.32hoopteCab BRL-CAD output models to drawings or plans?
22:45.28hooptedimensioned drawings in particular
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050213

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050213

00:09.25janobork
00:38.01*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-65-64-190-51.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
03:22.11*** join/#brlcad henryk (~user0@bgp977424bgs.gardnc01.mi.comcast.net)
03:31.17*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.34.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
03:31.34PhantomBantamAny news on the mac build?
03:34.01janohttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5556092251&fromMakeTrack=true
03:36.32brlcadPhantomBantam: by Monday at the lastest
03:36.40brlcadit's being put together now
03:42.48janobork :)
03:53.33*** part/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.34.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
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07:22.34brlcadpwd
07:22.38brlcadoop
07:24.40PrezKennedyit annoys me when people try to submit weblinks that have nothing to do with OSG
07:37.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: missing fooger.sh, header.sh, and make_tar.sh
07:42.32CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: initial script to apply indentation rules on the sources. assumes that there is a misc directory containing the new block-indent-region function.
07:53.29PrezKennedyhttp://osgaming.net/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=10
07:53.44PrezKennedya month ago they would have all voted "It took forever!"
17:38.01narniabrlcad, ping
17:46.19narniabrlcad, if you would have the time would you join me over in #emc (enhanced machine controller).
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20:59.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/INSTALL:
20:59.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: Revised notes on how to build on Irix systems based upon experiences with
20:59.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: over-running the maximum command line length. If the path is too deep, libtool
20:59.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: will construct a command line for relinking and running btclsh which exceeds
20:59.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: the maximum command line length. This results in a build failure.
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21:59.01CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: extraneous or removed
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050214

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050214

00:26.16janoagain
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02:21.56brlcadsomething wrong with the 238 router
02:23.23CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: disable e-mails for m-x indent-region updates
02:30.10CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/ (16 files): M-x indent-region
02:56.08polyspin238 responds
03:14.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/grid.c: bye bye BRLCAD4_0
03:31.29CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/extern.h: no more BRLCAD4_0
03:42.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (cmd.c input.c main.c tcl.c): M-x indent-region
04:01.15*** join/#brlcad |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-111-10-130.sb.sd.cox.net)
04:03.57polyspindoes anyone know if SourceForge has a "recommended practice guide" for their tracker?
04:43.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (10 files): M-x indent-region
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050215

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050215

03:39.25CIA-3libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (3 files in 3 dirs): no more crash.. crash bad... null mode string bad.. ignore bad strings.
03:58.08janooh son of a bitch
03:58.10janohttp://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/02140004aaa027d2.upi&Sys=rmmiller&Fid=NATIONAL&Type=News&Filter=National%20News
03:58.45janoboooo!
04:00.46EricWilhelmjano, what's wrong with google?
04:04.13janopolitical affiliation!
04:04.39janoi've made so much money on it
04:47.20janoah, he's prolly already asleep
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06:58.55PrezKennedydarn apple people
06:58.59PrezKennedybananas are so much better
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20:48.59manfredHi. What's the mail address of brlcad?
20:49.14manfredWe spoke about g-iges on Saturday and I want to send him a follow-up.
20:50.08manfredIs it possible that the iges header generated by g-iges is wrong? The integer word size is in field 8, but my importer expects that in field 7.
21:36.23*** join/#brlcad [Prez|Kennedy] (~Matthew@130.85.253.237)
21:39.27manfredI think I figured out what is wrong: g-iges -o file.iges test.g works, g-iges test.g > file.iges doesn't. Bug in w_start_global, I've submitted a bug report to sf.net
22:32.10janogone up $20 since I bought it a few weeks ago!!!
22:32.12jano:D
23:25.07janosalts
23:25.11janowhat in the world?
23:25.19salts:)
23:25.52jano:D
23:26.00janohurry up and come out here, i think she's lonley !
23:26.03jano;D
23:26.34saltsMMmm
23:26.47saltsthat'd be too dangerous
23:27.05jano?
23:27.06saltsas I'd have no issue with the .. differences .. at all
23:27.10jano:D
23:27.26janoso hurry up!
23:27.27saltsand I don't need that right now :)
23:27.31janoyes you do
23:27.39saltsoh hell I don't :)
23:27.51janohey.. she wouldn't even have to change her name!
23:27.54jano:D
23:27.58saltsi know what i'd be getting into
23:28.26saltsplus it was you two that hit it off so well
23:28.34saltsno telling how much she'd hate me :)
23:28.41jano?
23:28.44janowe talked about you
23:28.48jano;)
23:29.30saltsheh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050216

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050216

02:24.53*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
02:26.57polyspinyodel ley hei hoo!
02:27.35brlcadriiicola
02:29.12polyspinIs there any description of the "task" system on sourceforge that I could quote for the CMP?
02:30.13brlcadi don't think so, but lesse.
02:32.01brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=24202&group_id=1
02:33.39polyspinThe word "task" does not seem to appear on the page
02:33.53brlcadno, that's for the tracker system
02:34.01brlcadthe task tracker is a separate system
02:34.28brlcadtask was the first one we looked at that has the simple TODO list for now
02:34.56brlcadthe bug reporting, feature requests, support requests, patches are all part of the tracker system
02:35.21brlcadthat's a simple manual of how to use it -- not exactly recommended usage, but seomthing
02:35.56polyspinI was going to "play" with it, so I could see what we wanted to claim in our "process" about it.  Didn't want to create anything I couldn't delete.
02:39.07brlcadhrm
02:46.30brlcadthe only really configurable part is the categories and groups
02:47.33brlcadthe categories are fairly well defined already .. the groups are unused for the most part though
02:48.18brlcadsf support uses groups internal to their project to group requests into first/second/third tier support levels
02:48.33brlcadwe don't have that kind of grouping
02:49.07brlcadthe rest of the fields are fairly standardized for the tracker types -- topic, submitter, assignee, priority, ..
02:51.21polyspincategories and groups are wrt trackers, not tasks right?
02:52.33brlcadright
02:52.35polyspinI've played with the tracker enough now that I like, and we'll use it.  
02:53.05brlcadit might be easier to actually use the tracker system for tasks too, depending on the need
02:53.06polyspinIf there is any value in the "task" system, I wanted to know.  It's ok for us to ignore it for now.
02:53.16polyspinYes. I agree
02:53.24polyspinI like the traceability the tracker provides.
02:53.25brlcadwhat the task system gives you that the tracker system doesn't is dependencies
02:54.25polyspins in "this task depends on that one" and "that one starts when this one finishes" kind of stuff?
02:54.36brlcadmost projects actually don't use the task tracker on sf as that generally get's into a project's "business", which gets into a degree of planning that most open source projects don't have
02:55.13brlcadhmm.. I gotta stop saying "task tracker".. it's the "task system", not a tracker really -- at least not part of the tracker system
02:55.40brlcadthe few that I have seen using it are for short term and long term planning
02:56.23brlcade.g. one task category will be the next two minor revisions, another may be the next major protocol-breaking revision
02:56.30polyspinmight be of value to us then.  Though we might not want THAT kind of thing publicly available (as in, on an outside server)
02:56.36brlcadthe task items will be a feature list or todo list of sorts
02:56.55polyspingot it.
02:57.20brlcadthere can be private task lists too
02:57.27brlcadonly visible to devs, for example
02:57.59polyspinand not mgmt? ;-)
02:58.43brlcadcould even create an "ARL Management" user identifier that could be granted access
02:58.54brlcadyou can create arbitrary user classifications
02:59.19brlcadbut they would have to at least have an sf account, be logged in, and be in the appropriate group, of course
02:59.37polyspinSince they want to do everything through a "CR" type structure, I guess it's not important.
02:59.39brlcadnot exactly something I'd recommend :)
03:00.06polyspinwe'll stick to the tracker.
03:00.16brlcadchange requests are effectively the RFE tracker
03:00.25polyspinyup
03:00.31polyspinor the bug tracker.
03:00.43brlcadyeah
03:01.35polyspinbeep beep beep beep (as the truck backs up to the loading dock)
03:04.00polyspinHave you tried the "Camino" browser?
03:04.08brlcadinteresting read:  http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=240
03:04.15brlcadyeah, I've tried camino
03:04.22brlcadtoo buggy last I checked
03:04.38brlcadbut that was a while ago
03:04.41polyspinI've used it since the weekend.  Pretty cool.
03:05.37polyspinFound a good paper on OSS Config Mgmt.
03:05.57brlcadper that article, we don't seem to fit any of the potential negatives but do all the positives
03:06.08brlcadyeah, I want to read that sometime
03:06.12brlcadis it posted somewhere?
03:06.25polyspinHang on, I'll try to send you a copy
03:07.32polyspinon its way
03:07.43brlcadcool
03:09.20polyspinHmmm.  DCC still says "connecting"
03:10.32brlcadtry again
03:10.55brlcadi usually ignore dcc's
03:11.18brlcadsays I can't connect to you
03:11.25brlcadoh, you're on cable yes?
03:11.41polyspinstill seems to be stuck at "Connecting".  Oh, probably because I'm behind a router/firewall
03:11.44brlcadyou can't negotiate dccs there
03:11.59polyspinHang on, I'll find the URL
03:12.02brlcadcan scp up to .bz into /tmp
03:13.01polyspinhttp://opensource.ucc.ie/icse2001/asklundbendix.pdf
03:27.07polyspinI am postulating that every bug fix should result in a "Release", and that the nightly regression test should "package" the release.
03:27.36polyspinthis makes it trivial to create a release, and upload binaries.
03:28.50brlcadeasy enough to post that to the website, but would be more problematic to get it into the file release system
03:29.19brlcadsince that requires creation of release revision numbers through the web interface after authentication, upload of ftp, selection, etc
03:29.29polyspinI don't care about automating the uploads.  I expect that can be done by hand.  Given that we're talking about a 1/week activity
03:29.57brlcadI've seen dozens of bugs get fixed in a day or two
03:30.05brlcadone a day every day for a month ..
03:30.12polyspinOK, so we limit it to 1/day
03:31.07polyspinI am trying to get people to think in terms different from the "when should we get around to releasing" ones they historically have.
03:32.37brlcadi agree that's a good thing .. release new patch updates after every fix -- perhaps push those automatically up to the website, though
03:32.50polyspinWhat metric would YOU suggest for making a "release" binary kit?
03:33.03brlcadand then periodically (e.g. 1/month) upload the latest up to the tracker
03:33.23polyspinA good idea.
03:33.43polyspinTracker?  File Release System
03:33.48brlcader, yeah :)
03:33.54polyspinVersionTracker ;-)
03:34.00brlcadthat too
03:34.22polyspinThat would make CCB happy:  They could exercise their "Release decision"
03:34.58brlcada "full release" will normally take days after everything's in place - news channels to notify, sites to update, places like versiontracker/freshmeat/etc to update, dozens of e-mail notifications
03:35.17brlcadhence 1/month would be good for that
03:36.42polyspinWho are the e-mail notifications?
03:36.53polyspinCould that be automated?
03:37.15brlcadshould be automateable
03:37.24brlcadi've listed some in HACKING
03:37.37brlcadsome I've discovered since by following the on-line CAD sites
03:37.58brlcadalready e-mailed a few to update their information, though I'm sure there are lots out there
03:38.35polyspin'k
03:41.27brlcadsome of them will not be every time, like /. submissions
03:41.59brlcadsome are web forms, some are e-mail -- some specify format requirements for news postings, some don't
03:42.24brlcadfor the static web forms and e-mailers, though, it should be possible to automate it to at least some extent
03:45.08polyspinI love Pareto's Law at the bottom of that ACM paper
03:48.36brlcadbtw, our version control doc is in doc/cvs.txt iirc  might be useful
03:49.54polyspinYes, I've got that.
03:55.58brlcadsecond paragraph on the second page pretty much sums it up correctly
03:57.44polyspinThird para on third page is the one I plan to point out most
03:58.27polyspinThis is going to be a part of my CMP hand-outs
04:00.03brlcadoh that is a good bullet
04:01.08brlcadat least the first two sentences
04:02.34polyspinyes, those first two sentences
04:03.07brlcadsecond bullet of lessons learned is interesting (and quite true)
04:03.28brlcadself-assigned tasks
04:04.00polyspinAnd users of the system.  I'm going to propose we become more active users.
04:04.16polyspinThings like: Should Keith be on our team?
04:04.49brlcadunless/except where there is money backing the development, development improvements will be rather across the board
04:05.01brlcadhmm.. keith.. what would he "do"?
04:05.10polyspinmodel
04:05.25polyspinWe would model some too.
04:05.34polyspinThat way, the changes we make benefit US
04:05.39brlcadi figured the later a given
04:05.46polyspinWE see what needs to be done, and do it becuase WE need it.
04:06.11brlcadyes, quite -- so long as there's someone letting us fix the things we find need fixing :)
04:06.12polyspinSelf interest, self motivation.
04:06.21polyspinPrecisely.
04:06.31brlcadit's easy to point out deficiencies
04:06.43brlcadcould pick pretty much any tool, and file and find a way to improve it
04:06.55brlcadonly a handful will impact the bottom line, though
04:07.03polyspinSure.  But which ones would contribute to you being able to model faster/better
04:07.15polyspinWhich ones make the analysis easier?
04:07.15brlcadyes, quite
04:07.31polyspinWhich ones result in less human work in the end.
04:08.07polyspinWhat I've learned from blender ... sigh
04:08.57polyspinBottom line: I think we need to be more tightly tied to the analysis being done.
04:08.59brlcadhehe.. quote from another fella that read the paper: "more likely oss succeeds because there is no marketing/sales or management types involved :)"
04:09.05polyspinIt server our Vis purposes too.
04:09.31brlcadit does
04:11.03brlcadthe ability to model the full details of practically anything efficiently is something I'm hoping we'll have soon
04:11.31brlcadand to be able to introspect any of that data, and apply basic physics interactions for the purpose of modeling
04:11.47brlcadintrospection also for visualization, of course too
04:11.58polyspinYee Ha!
04:13.06polyspinProprioception being the latest buzzword for all that
04:13.22brlcaddo things like model a fully contrained tank and a building -- drive the tank into the building and have basic physics take over for the interactions
04:13.56brlcadanalyses could rather esaily intercept the "basic physics" and apply real dynamics simulations
04:14.14brlcadif not, you get a quick and dirty for the purpose of modeling
04:14.37brlcadperpahs all you wanted is a model of a building that looks like a tank rammed into it
04:15.02brlcadperhaps you wanted to see how the turret structure holds
04:15.31brlcadadd the hooks in for a modeler, and the coupling to analyses becomes pretty clear
04:17.08brlcadthe third bullet of transfer of lessons learned in the paper is interesting, though I think we can get by that by simply referencing sf tracker id's in the commit messages for commits that fulfill some tracker item
04:17.31brlcadthat should give the traceability he says often isn't there
04:18.11brlcadsetting priority (fourth bullet) can be a problem
04:18.24polyspinYes, I can spit that third bullet back at them.
04:18.25brlcadsince there's a conflict between what's paid for, what's not -- who's doing what
04:19.00brlcadfor those "self-assigning" tasks -- they will work regardless of any priorities we set on items to some extent
04:19.08polyspinExcept for us, we are not entirely self-assigned.  We have a specific mission.
04:19.14polyspinSo we dodge that bullet too.
04:23.24polyspinIf the mission is OURS. I think that pretty much drops that argument into the wastebasket
04:23.24brlcadexample: bzflag's maintainer has had "high priority" on a karma system that none of the other devs really like or think will work well as least without major changes
04:23.24polyspinKey:  He's not putting MONEY behind it.
04:23.24brlcadso it's been 3 or more years and progress on it pretty much crawls just at the rate of what he can implement himself which loads of time is invested by others into other tasks
04:23.24brlcadyes, and he knows that so he can only "encourage" or complain so much
04:23.24brlcadit is a beautiful thing when all the devs agree and work on some feature though.. that I have to admit
04:23.24brlcadakin to working off-site for a week on some goal
04:23.24polyspinYeap.  I miss those days.
04:24.55brlcadgetting started on the new modeler interface would be a nice offsite
04:25.24polyspinI may have an angle on getting that funded.  I'll talk to you in private about that sometime.
04:25.45brlcadwhat're your thoughts on the application interface for that?  
04:26.24polyspinI don't want to record that in this forum.
04:26.25brlcadi've been leaning towards doing the whole thing in open gl, and just picking some library to provide the context
04:27.05brlcadpm's work too :)
04:27.55polyspinTrue, but I think we'll want to spend an hour if I start, and I need to get some sleep soon.
04:28.21brlcadfair enough
04:31.57polyspincya tmrw?
04:32.03brlcadyeah
04:32.09brlcadit is about that time
04:32.14polyspinpasta la vida
04:32.31brlcadhasta tamale
04:40.29janocomo frijoles?
04:42.21brlcadno gracias.. me da farts
04:48.33janocomo frijoles: mexican for "how have you bean" :P
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15:14.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/iges.c: removed erroneous trailing comma on stdout header output case. (fix from manfreds, sf bug 1123436)
15:40.13CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed g-iges stdout header bug (sf bug 1123436)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050217

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050217

02:25.16*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
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06:35.34*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
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15:36.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (moss.sh Makefile.am solids.sh):
15:36.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: Extracted the moss test from the solids.sh script into a new script and added a
15:36.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: pix-png/png-pix test. Updated Makefile.am to run new script.
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19:43.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/iges/g-iges.1: Paragraph formatting and option layout to produce an actually readable man page.
19:48.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/TODO: It would be nice if we understood why g-iges/iges-g permutes box vertices
22:13.03[Prez|Kennedy]is there a windows version?
22:32.28CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (iges.sh Makefile.am): Test the g-iges and iges-g operations
23:12.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: added a reminder to run regress once the install is completed
23:46.13CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/iges.sh:
23:46.14CIA-3BRL-CAD: caused iges-g and g-iges massive verbosity to go to
23:46.14CIA-3BRL-CAD: a file instead of the console.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050218

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050218

00:04.17*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
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01:49.00polyspinbooga booga
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02:06.39polyspinevenin
02:11.34janobork
03:34.38polyspinDid someone say "toys" ?!?!
03:35.33brlcadyup yup
03:35.43brlcadnew wireless router, new hdd, areobars for my bike ..
03:35.48brlcadbike socks, trail mix
03:35.53brlcadcoffee
03:36.00brlcadand buffalo wings :)
03:36.30polyspinoooh! bikes *and* commputers *and* munchies!!!!!
03:36.48polyspinWhich aerobars?
03:39.07brlcadprofile design: http://www.profile-design.com/product_pages/clip_jammer_gt.html
03:39.25brlcadsimple, relatively cheap
03:41.23brlcadalmost got: http://www.profile-design.com/product_pages/clip_carbon_stryke.html
03:43.00brlcadnow that I can see the specs on-line, I'm second guessing whether I should go trade up now :)
03:45.01polyspinThinking about the carbon ones?
03:45.24brlcadit's only 100g difference -- could barely tell in the store
03:46.58brlcadyeah.. the sonic stryke looks sweet
03:49.02polyspinSeriously sweet.  And it better be for 160 more
03:49.26polyspinDid you like the more horizontal hand-hold?
03:49.36brlcadit's adjustable
03:50.01brlcadboth can spin to vertical/horizontal
03:53.04polyspinI don't know, I might have pikced the aerolite.  But then, I'm always wanting to adjust things for my reach.
04:00.32brlcadthey didn't have that one at hudson trail
04:01.04brlcadjust the jammer gt, carbon strike, and airstrike
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05:17.18polyspinNite all
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06:32.07janohmm
06:33.01janoi ate a whole pizza tonight
06:33.02jano:D
07:20.31brlcadyum
07:20.50brlcadabout 8 chickens died to feed me tonight
08:10.14[Prez|Kennedy]bess the cow died so i could live on
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050219

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07:34.13CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: ahh, there it is .. was missing the m4 search dir path to the second aclocal run too
16:08.46CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am:
16:08.46CIA-3BRL-CAD: make sure a dangerous umask will not prevent others from using an installed
16:08.46CIA-3BRL-CAD: version by checking to make sure the exec mode is set. output a warning and
16:08.46CIA-3BRL-CAD: potential find rules that should repair the bad directory permissions
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050220

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01:29.29janohmm
01:29.39janomy irivier ain't allowing me to move files over to my pc
01:29.40janowtf
01:29.57janoi don't want to have to reburn my cds
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18:23.07*** join/#brlcad skel_home (~skel@ip68-230-51-68.ph.ph.cox.net)
18:23.29skel_homecan anyone assist me? I'm trying to build brlcad from cvs
18:23.47skel_homethe autogen.sh complains that I don't have automake 1.6 when I run it
18:24.08skel_homemy /usr/bin/automake is symlinked to automake 1.4
18:24.34skel_homeso I re-run it after symlinking to automake-1.6 and it complains that it needs 1.4 =/
18:25.32skel_homeERROR:  To prepare the BRL-CAD build system from scratch,
18:25.32skel_home<PROTECTED>
18:25.34brlcadbrl-cad does need 1.6
18:25.39skel_homeso I switched from 1.4 to 1.6 and I get
18:25.52skel_homeaclocal.m4:895: version mismatch.  This is Automake 1.6.3, but aclocal.m4
18:25.52skel_homeaclocal.m4:895: was generated for Automake 1.4-p6.  You should recreate
18:25.52skel_homeaclocal.m4:895: aclocal.m4 with aclocal and run automake again.
18:25.53skel_homeERROR: automake failed
18:26.20brlcadaclocal is part of automake
18:26.20skel_homeand I wiped out the cvs tree and resynced between each try
18:26.46brlcadif you updated the automake symlink, there are a couple others you have to update too
18:26.47skel_homeso aclocal is a seperate binary I probably need to fix the symlink there too?
18:26.51skel_homeok
18:27.05brlcadbsd yes?
18:27.09skel_homety =] I'll see if I can do that
18:27.12skel_homedebian
18:27.17skel_homeubuntu to be specific
18:27.22skel_homeon x86_64
18:27.23brlcadahh
18:28.03brlcadthat should be using the alternatives system no?
18:28.51skel_homeyeah Its linked to /etc/alternatives something
18:29.07skel_homeI'm not sure how that works.. so I just linked it to the other automake
18:29.10brlcadso you should use that to switch from 1.4 to 1.6 :)
18:29.23skel_homeoh
18:29.27skel_homeok =]
18:29.40brlcadupdate-alternatives --config automake
18:29.55brlcadas root
18:31.26skel_homesame with aclocal?
18:31.35skel_homeor does it know to change that?
18:32.06skel_homebrlcad: thats cool =] much easier than hand linking all that crap
18:32.08skel_homebrlcad: ty =]
18:33.16skel_homecool its building now =]
18:33.46brlcad;)
18:34.08brlcadaclocal is part of the automake package, so updating automake fixes everything related to it
18:36.22skel_homeyou wouldn't happen to know which package contains cc1plus ?
18:36.40skel_homeit says my configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
18:36.52skel_homeand I've got cpp installed
18:37.47brlcadthat's very wierd
18:39.08skel_homemaybe I need a newer cpp
18:39.25brlcadahh
18:39.39brlcadit's failing on c++ check
18:39.39skel_homenope its installed
18:40.11skel_homeso libc++ something
18:40.32brlcaddo you have g++ ?
18:40.45brlcadit doesn't need it, but for some reason it's testing it
18:41.10skel_homeumm.  nope.. I'll install it
18:42.10brlcadcan you send me your config.log for the failed run?
18:42.17skel_homesure
18:43.44skel_homeI wonder if my firewall is going to mess it up
18:43.44skel_homeI haven't ever dcc'd anything before
18:44.17skel_homeare you getting the request?
18:44.36skel_homehmm I've got g++ it just looks like its not in my path
18:50.38skel_homeok once I linked g++-3.4 to g++ its gotten further
18:50.48skel_homeyup it finished
18:51.45skel_homebuilding now
18:51.58skel_homesorry about that.. I don't know why there wasn't a general g++ link
18:58.05skel_homeI'm getting a lot of errors during compiling of if_ogl.c
18:58.20skel_homeI'm guessing I'm missing some sort of gl library or x11 maybe
18:59.44skel_homeif_ogl.c:65:29: X11/StringDefs.h: No such file or directory
18:59.44skel_homeif_ogl.c:66:20: GL/glx.h: No such file or directory
18:59.44skel_homeif_ogl.c:67:19: GL/gl.h: No such file or directory
19:01.13brlcadyou don't have X11?
19:01.28skel_homeI do..
19:01.37brlcadif you do, you'll need the X11 developer headers
19:01.45skel_homeok I'll get those
19:03.08brlcadmesa-dev or something for the opengl headers
19:05.13skel_homeyeah its going further now..
19:05.24brlcadahh, the cpp thing is an autoconf bug apparently
19:05.29skel_home/usr/bin/ld: /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.a(glapi.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
19:05.32skel_home/usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
19:06.11skel_homebrlcad: that would explain it =P
19:06.25brlcadnot supposed to check more than C by default
19:06.50brlcadbut for some reason it's checking cpp's functionality with C++
19:07.14skel_homeI wonder if I needed something special for x86_64
19:07.48brlcadtry ./configure CFLAGS="-fPIC"
19:08.01skel_homeok
19:08.24brlcadif there are alternatives choices for autoconf and libtool, i'd select them as well
19:08.33brlcaduse the most recent version available
19:08.53skel_homeok I'll make sure I've got everything as recent as possible
19:10.26skel_homebrlcad: so are you one of the developers?
19:11.00brlcadyes
19:11.58skel_homecool
19:12.03skel_homethis program is huge
19:13.35brlcadit's actually several hundred programs
19:14.06skel_homeah
19:15.05skel_homedoes it do any simulation? like if I made gears on an axis and they weren't correct size can I animate it to see if it will line up?
19:15.38brlcadit can do ariticulations and animation
19:15.38skel_homebummer.. same error
19:15.51skel_homecool =]
19:16.22skel_homeI don't have any 32bit libraries.. will this work on a pure 64 system?
19:16.29brlcadyep
19:16.52brlcadit's actively maintained on several pure 64 bit systems
19:16.58skel_homehmm ok
19:17.51brlcadhave you tried the x86 64bit binary?
19:18.08skel_homeI didn't know there was one
19:18.19brlcadhttp://ftp.arl.mil/reports/tr-313/
19:18.30skel_homeI'm just getting used to no binaries being available for 64 stuff
19:18.32skel_home=/
19:18.56brlcadthere's binaries posted for irix64, ia64, and amd64 :)
19:19.54skel_homeawesome :)
19:19.58brlcadthere are others, but only a few binaries are posted right now
19:20.04brlcadthose happen to be some of them :)
19:21.12skel_homethats refreshing :-]
19:21.37skel_homesince I got an athlon64 I've been finding out all sorts of stuff isn't ready for it yet
19:22.10skel_homeie. openoffice
19:24.24brlcadbrl-cad's made to work on everything down to an old vax to a large cray or multi-thousand-node sgi to you common desktop workstation
19:25.07brlcadright now, most of the limitations are only because we recently moved to the gnu build system
19:25.18skel_homeah
19:25.28brlcadwhich is crap, but it's hopefully easier to maintain than the old build system down the road
19:25.37skel_home=/
19:25.54brlcadso far it's been mostly a myrid of incompatibilities and bugs
19:26.18skel_homethat sucks
19:26.30skel_homewhats the general command to start brl ?
19:26.32brlcadit's amazing that it's what everyone uses
19:27.03brlcadit's a royal pain to configure cleanly without vehemently requiring very specific versions of autoconf/automake/libtool
19:27.45skel_homebrlcad: its all I'm used to.. =P
19:27.47brlcadtried to keep it very open for now -- but then it results in having to continually work around the bugs in that triad
19:27.50skel_homebrlcad: the symlink shuffle
19:28.01brlcadi know.. that's part of why we've moved to it
19:28.57brlcadresults in a configure script that's larger than most, a real complex pain to maintain, but people are familiar with it so that's a pluss
19:30.06brlcadmost folks that dont' have a specific need tend to learn the modeler first, that's MGED
19:30.10skel_homebrlcad: you could just break it down into the core app and make the other apps dependencies =P
19:30.39brlcadskel_home: what do you mean?
19:31.01brlcadthat wouldn't fix the autoconf/automake/libtool problems
19:31.32brlcadhaving been around for a couple decases, brl-cad itself has no trouble compiling on most any system
19:31.45skel_homebrlcad: wouldn't it make the config script smaller?
19:32.06brlcadnot really
19:32.22skel_homehmm ok
19:32.31skel_homeI'm obviously no developer =P
19:32.32brlcadit's just the nature of how autoconf/automake works
19:32.37skel_homeaside from a python app here an there
19:32.43brlcadonly "solution" would be to not use it
19:32.55brlcadand use something like scons or ant to build
19:34.05brlcadI'd suggest reading document 2 on http://brlcad.org/ if you're just getting started
19:34.13brlcadit's a very detailed tutorial
19:34.45skel_homecool =]
19:34.53skel_homeI'll check that out
19:39.51brlcadskel_home: oh, that reminds me.. what did the configure summary say for 64-bit compilation?
19:40.23brlcador are you going with the binary now?
19:40.58brlcadbinaries are on http://sf.net/projects/brlcad/ down near the middle under BRL-CAD on Linux files section
19:47.06skel_homebrlcad: I went with the binary :)
19:47.16skel_homebrlcad: just not sure what to start first
19:48.17brlcadmost of the binaries are contained tools that perform a specific task
19:48.26brlcadlike ls or grep in linux
19:48.50brlcada handful kick off gui apps -- the most commonly used is the modeler, which is called mged
19:49.42brlcadit's got a less than brilliant user interface and is under a rewrite, but it will get the job done and is very flexible
19:50.02skel_homeok I'll play with mged =] get familiar with it
19:50.32brlcadjust try to not use it as a metric for the whole package :)
19:51.13brlcadthe ray-tracers are fun
19:52.08skel_homedo I need to download databases from somewhere?
19:52.32brlcadthere are some simple ones in the source checkout in the db/ directory
19:53.03brlcadsince you didn't compile, you'll have to convert them from ascii to binary
19:53.37skel_homeok
19:53.48brlcadasc2g db/havoc.asc db/havoc.g
19:55.16brlcadmged db/havoc.g
19:55.20skel_homecool no errors =]
19:55.28brlcadtops
19:55.35brlcade havoc
19:56.27skel_homethis is sweet
20:00.43skel_homeI gotta run but I'm going to read that tutorial when I get back :)
20:00.51skel_homebrlcad: thanks so much for all your help =]
20:01.54brlcadno problem
20:02.23brlcadfeel free to drop me any questions if you run into them
20:31.32brlcadahh.. damn libtool again
20:31.48brlcadthat's what's making the check for c++
20:31.51brlcadhttp://www.ethereal.com/lists/ethereal-dev/200311/msg00140.html
20:32.13brlcadmy sentiments match:  "libtool - it makes me so happy I want to drive a steel spike through my skull to make the pain go away."
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23:52.20janobork
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050221

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050221

00:13.17brlcadbork
01:49.07*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.76.182.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
01:49.28PhantomBantamAny news on the mac build?
01:51.34brlcadthere were release delays as some discovered bugs were being worked on
01:52.15PhantomBantamAh.
01:52.43PhantomBantamSo any idea when it will be available? I don't mean to be a pest.
02:14.21brlcadno problem asking :)
02:14.59brlcadhow about I post up a private tarball for you ..
02:18.36brlcadit'll take me a few minutes to make a fresh compile for you
02:23.28PhantomBantamOoooh. That would be nice.
02:24.12brlcadit'll be unoptimized for now
02:25.45PhantomBantamOkay.
02:34.10brlcad15 minutes for the upload to complete
02:34.39PhantomBantamHow do I get to it?
02:35.20brlcadlet you know when it's done
02:36.30PhantomBantamThank you.
02:37.18brlcadare you at all familiar with the command line?
02:37.43brlcadthis isn't going to be a proper graphical install, but it's easy enough to walk you through
02:37.57PhantomBantamA little bit.
02:38.05PhantomBantamI'm trying to learn more.
02:51.03brlcadokay, it's done
02:51.14brlcadrun X11 from your Applications/Utilities folder
02:51.21brlcadthat will open up an xterm window
02:51.52brlcadin that window type:  curl -O http://ftp.brlcad.org/brlcad.tar.gz
02:57.41skel_homebrlcad: is there an html version of that intro?
02:58.14brlcadhmm?
02:58.17brlcaddid you download it yet?
02:58.24brlcadi.e. the curl line?
02:58.29brlcadthat's not all you need to do
02:58.44brlcadthere is documentation on http://brlcad.org/
02:58.54brlcadsee the overview and introduction to mged for starters
02:59.44PhantomBantamWhoops.
03:00.28PhantomBantamOkay.
03:00.44brlcadif you mean an html version of the mged introduction, no there's not .. it's normal form is actually a printed book
03:01.16skel_homebrlcad: ok I'll try and convert it with pdf2ps -> ps2html
03:01.55brlcadit'll be huge :)
03:02.07brlcadthe book is several hundred pages
03:02.57brlcadso after you do that curl line, type this:
03:03.00brlcadcd /usr
03:03.18brlcadsudo tar zxvf ~/brlcad.tar.gz
03:03.42brlcadexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
03:03.44brlcadcd
03:03.58brlcadmged test.g
03:04.13brlcadthen you should see mged kick off
03:04.21PhantomBantamThat's it?
03:06.24brlcadshould be it
03:07.09brlcadyou'll want to add that PATH line to your ~/.bash_profile file to make the brl-cad tools always in your path
03:08.04brlcadskel_home: the cli predates the gui by a long shot :)
03:09.25brlcadmost everything you can do on the gui can be done (and often done more quickly) on the command-line interface
03:09.51EricWilhelmbrlcad, did you ever track-down those latex sources for the manuals?
03:10.16skel_homePhantomBantam: the guide I'm going through right now is really straight forward.. I think you'll like it
03:11.10PhantomBantamWhere is it?
03:11.32brlcadskel_home: logical is unfortunately not what many are used to :)
03:11.55skel_home=/
03:12.07brlcadthere is the slightest hint of a mathematics and verbose information bias throughout brl-cad too
03:12.09skel_homeI went to the gui and create menu and there is no "make shape" option
03:12.32skel_homeerr "make solid"
03:13.18brlcadhmm?  which page of the tutorial?
03:13.41skel_homebrlcad: page 18
03:13.47PhantomBantamIs the tutorial the manual from the website?
03:14.24skel_homewhen it first walks you through making a shape with the gui and you're supposed to make sph2.s
03:14.40skel_homePhantomBantam: yeah that second link.. the pdf
03:15.02brlcadPhantomBantam: do you go through those instructions yet to install it?
03:15.11skel_homebrlcad: I'm just as well on the cli .. I just wanted to make sure my mged wasn't missing something
03:15.17PhantomBantamOh, that's downloading.
03:15.23brlcadahh
03:16.12PhantomBantamUnfortunately, I still have dial-up. So although it will take forever, I can download it.
03:18.18brlcadskel_home: pdf page 18 or book page 18 ?
03:19.13brlcadskel_home: ahh, pdf page 18 i see it
03:20.09brlcadyeah, that was changed, there's no longer the separate submenu -- it's simply the entire Create menu
03:20.23skel_homebrlcad: pdf
03:21.02brlcadsph is an ellipsoid
03:21.28skel_homebook page 7 I think
03:21.28skel_homeno 6
03:21.28skel_homesorry
03:21.28skel_home13. Creating a new sphere
03:21.29skel_homeusing the gui
03:21.37brlcadyeah, i found it
03:21.47skel_homebrlcad: ah ok =]
03:22.26skel_homecool. just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on anything =P
03:23.55brlcadnah, there shouldn't be anything drastically different since the book except subtle movements and renamings -- and very few of those at that
03:27.07CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix reference to the Create Solid submenu in volume ii
03:28.41skel_homeheh
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03:33.43ThePhantomBantamSo, is it the second volume with the most meat?
03:33.55brlcadyes
03:34.08ThePhantomBantamExcellent.
03:34.12brlcadbut that's because it starts simple and covers a lot of "newbie" ground
03:34.54brlcadthe other volumes are much shorter, but presumes all of the basics and deal with much harder topics
03:36.15ThePhantomBantamOh.
03:45.34*** join/#brlcad ThePhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.178.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
03:46.45ThePhantomBantamSo, can this do 2d drafting, or is it just 3D?
03:47.25brlcadit's primary focus is 3d solid modeling right now
03:47.37brlcadbut there is some 2d support via the sketch primitive
03:47.44brlcadselect create sketch on the menu
03:47.56brlcadwhen you finally get it installed, of course :)
03:48.30brlcadi've heard various praise/hate of qcad for 2d drafting
03:58.00ThePhantomBantamIs there anything like in solidworks, where you can automatically create a 2D model of the solid?
03:58.43brlcadfor what purpose?
03:58.52brlcadfor visualization there is -- rtedge
03:59.14brlcadfor parametric modeling for drafting, there's not yet
03:59.21ThePhantomBantamOh.
04:00.17ThePhantomBantamI don't need it, I was just wondering.
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16:53.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
16:53.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: libtool has a bug that causes a /lib/cpp sanity check failure if a C++ compiler
16:53.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: is not installed. This makes the sanity test pass regardless of whether there
16:53.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: is a c++ compiler by setting the c++ preprocessor to the c preprocessor.
16:55.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: re-enable commit e-mails, save indent for later?
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17:44.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am brlcad-check.sh): remove the out-of-date brlcad-check.sh as it refers to a build setup and environment assumptions that no longer exist
17:51.31janobork
18:02.05brlcadhey
18:03.28CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (copyright.sh elapsed.sh footer.sh header.sh vers.sh): force locale setting to C so things like date output as expected
18:04.41CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (lgt.sh perf.sh run.sh try.sh): force locale setting to C so things like date output as expected
18:09.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac autogen.sh): force locale setting to C so things like date output as expected
20:16.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/cadbug.sh: update bug e-mail to go to the dev list moderated as bugs@brlcad.org
21:00.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: remove old tcl ranlib hack and add comment about old cake 'ar ts' from ranlib5.sh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050222

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050222

01:10.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am ranlib5.sh): remove ranlib5.sh as it was a means to make cake run 'ar ts', which is now handled by configure.ac and libtool
02:19.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: add cliff yapp for initial emerge support on the gentoo platform
02:20.28CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed locale build bug
02:21.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: added special thanks to Pedro Giffuni for getting BRL-CAD into freebsd ports
03:06.17CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am sharedliblink.sh sharedlibvers.sh): remove the old sharedlib script files as they are no longer needed with the new build system
03:15.01janohttp://bluefiresecurity.com/
03:15.39janobork
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03:35.29PhantomBantamHey, I finished the download, and MGED is working perfectly.
03:35.49PhantomBantamSo thank you, very much.
03:53.50brlcadexcellent
03:54.06brlcadhope it was worth your wait -- good luck with the training/tutorials ;)
03:54.24brlcadfeel free to drop questions in here
08:11.47CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: initial completed implementations of tgz, bz2, and tar targets
08:14.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (make_bz2.sh Makefile.am make_tbz.sh): remove make_tbz.sh renaming to make_bz2.sh with the initial completed implementation
08:15.20CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_tar.sh: initial implementation of the make tar target that builds a tar file from an installed binary distribution. there's presently an assumption that the install has not been separated into multiple source trees.
08:17.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_tgz.sh: initial tgz implementation that takes an tar tape archive and compresses it to a tar.gz binary distribution
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14:32.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: added iges.log to the list of things to be cleaned up
20:02.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am:
20:02.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: This change causes libz to be added to any item that links with libpng
20:02.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: AFTER libpng so that symbols are resolved properly.
20:12.53CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS:
20:12.54CIA-3BRL-CAD: Added note about fixing libpng link on Irix 64bit (SF tracker 1146316)
20:12.54CIA-3BRL-CAD: Thanks to Kelly Benjamin for spotting this one.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050223

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050223

02:04.20*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
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04:55.18*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
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05:16.29*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
06:25.01CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: quote the make_* script arguments so an empty string will still be passed at the right place
06:29.23CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (make_bz2.sh make_tgz.sh): description/auth line
06:54.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_tar.sh: test for gnu tar, and if it's gnu tar, make the path absolute via -P tar option
06:55.54janobork
06:56.34CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: substitute PACKAGE_NAME explicitly, make sure it's set just in case too
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08:21.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: add summary lines when the binary package target is built identifying the host triplet identifier
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10:08.02*** join/#brlcad Pimpi (~frank@p50821AB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050224

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050224

01:15.20*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.45.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
05:46.25*** join/#brlcad cad146 (~182d8fa5@bz.bzflag.bz)
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17:40.53*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-104-25.client.comcast.net)
17:40.53*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
23:39.13*** join/#brlcad starseeker (~starseeke@ip68-106-90-53.hr.hr.cox.net)
23:39.22starseekeranybody here?
23:41.10starseekerThere's a strange problem I'm getting with a gnome library wanting something called libbn.so.19 - the only libbns I can scare up is associated with brl-cad and pgp/gpg - anybody aware of a conflict between the two?
23:48.37learnerhmmm
23:49.00learnera gnome library called libbn.so.19 eh?  
23:54.11learnerapparently our "BRL-CAD Numerics" library and OpenSSL's "Big Number" library have the same name
23:55.40learnerwasn't aware of that until just now actually
23:57.21learneri assume you didn't install into /usr/brlcad either like brl-cad prefers :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050225

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050225

00:00.13starseekernope :-)
00:00.22learneri have heard of various other libraries named librt on certain platforms, just not libbn yet
00:01.37learnerso it sounds like you may have overwrote an existing libbn from openssl
00:01.51starseekerI suppose I could update the ebuild...  although to my considerable amusement I symlinked the brl-cad lib to that name and it built :-D.  Or maybe my build order changed... either way I've yet to see that error
00:02.24learnerwhat were you building?
00:02.32starseekeruh - some bonobo thing
00:03.13starseekerscrolled down too far now.
00:03.22learnerdoes curl still work? :)
00:03.34starseekerhmm.  Dunno, don't use it...
00:04.01learnercurl http://brlcad.org
00:04.15starseekeryep
00:04.20learnerer, never mind.. i said openssl, didn't i
00:04.28starseekeryeah
00:04.55starseekeroh well, I guess I can just reinstall ssl
00:05.19starseekerI thought portage was supposed to catch things like this... huh
00:05.21starseekerweird
00:05.25learneror just wait until something ssl-related causes a problem -- might not be a problem :)
00:05.33learneryeah, that is odd
00:05.35starseekerBoy would that be funny
00:05.54starseekerI might need to reinstall openssl - the initial error was the library wasn't present at all
00:06.20starseekerbrl-cad - we even replace openssl :-P
00:07.41starseekerMumble - they still haven't put the ebuild into portage
00:07.47starseekerSorry about that
00:07.48learnerassuming that's the right libbn in question
00:07.52learnercould be another still
00:08.11starseekercould be pgp or gpg I suppose
00:08.31learnerand replacing libbn would certainly cause pretty much every binary in brl-cad to choke
00:08.45starseekerlet me check...
00:08.49learnerunless they're staticly linked
00:09.12starseekerwhats the binary name for the GUI again?
00:09.44learnermged?
00:09.51starseekerah, that's it :-)
00:10.10starseekerHmm - it's looking for librt.so.19
00:10.14learnerdoing a raytrace is a better libbn test though
00:10.33starseekerIt can't find a number of libraries it wants
00:10.41starseekerfudgesickel
00:10.44learnerthat's odd .. sounds like you actually stomped on brl-cad's libbn and libbu
00:10.53learnerer, libbn and librt
00:11.17starseekerguess I'd better wait til I get this system update done, then try installing in /usr/brlcad like a good little boy
00:11.51starseekerlibpkg.so.19??
00:12.04starseekerlibtcl8.4.so.19??
00:12.08starseekerOh, opps
00:12.16learneryep, those are all brl-cad libs
00:12.17starseekerno wonder I had to re-emerge tcl
00:12.35janois it bee are el CAD or burl cad?
00:12.51learnerbee are el
00:13.12janowhat if i don't want to bee ur el?
00:13.19learnerBeOS-CAD *ahem*
00:13.35starseekerOkay... more ebuild tinkering needed I guess <sigh>
00:14.09learnerstarseeker, i don't mind working out the problems to get it installing into the "common" locations.. but it's not clear what to do if there's a conflict
00:14.24learnerit's not even clear that's what the problem is here..
00:14.37learnersounds like you lost your brl-cad libs .. not a conflict
00:14.50learneror at least your symlinks
00:14.58starseekerYes, it's a bit odd.  
00:15.25starseekerOHHHHH! I'll bet when I had the sandbox turned off I overwrote some stuff
00:15.33starseekeroppsie
00:16.14starseekerOh, I didn't mean that the way it sounded learner - I'm just pissed I'm being such a poor ebuild developer
00:16.23learnerheh
00:16.47starseekerI'm not allowed to complain about a GPLed full powered CAS for Linux.
00:17.58starseekerOh, well.  My system needed a major update anyway...
00:18.16starseekerGotta get in shape to try and build E17 :-)
00:18.32learner:)
00:18.48jano:D
00:18.55starseekerYeah, gotta get in shape that way too :-/
00:19.05starseekerE17 is good for the heart rate though!
00:19.36starseekerWhat a pity Gnome apps won't be ported over...
00:20.25janoi wish gimp would work on more high-end level like 16-bit and cmyk and stuff
00:20.35janoonly ones that do are the film-gimp projects
00:20.43janoand those are behind on development
00:20.47janoand crash up the wazoo on winders
00:20.56starseekerI think they need some support libs to come online
00:21.52starseekerHeh - sorry learner.  Once again I drag things off topic :-)
00:23.10starseekerOK, back to breaking my system into small pieces.  I'll let you know if I sort out the ebuild issues and find some low level conflicts
06:12.03*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-104-25.client.comcast.net)
06:12.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
06:43.25*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
06:43.25*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
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15:52.17janowow!!
15:52.18janohttp://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/eceprojectsland/STUDENTPROJ/2002to2003/lil2/
19:57.40brlcadheheh, that's funny
19:57.51janoit's great
19:57.56janoi have the song stuck in my head
19:58.02janoboo bo beep bepp bo bo bo beep
19:58.37janoreminds me of the time homer congratulated lisa on her sax playing and walks out.. ooo eeerrr eeeep SQUEEK
19:58.41jano:D
19:59.06janothe video doesn't make much sense, though
19:59.13janoi can't see movement correlating to the music
19:59.14jano:(
20:08.51brlcadi see a loose correlation
20:24.50*** join/#brlcad fgq (fgq@203-190-200-081.dial.usertools.net)
20:25.10brlcadhello fgq
20:25.38fgqhi
20:53.08*** part/#brlcad fgq (fgq@203-190-200-081.dial.usertools.net)
21:47.27janowell fghim
21:47.29jano:D
22:34.40narniabrlcad, ping
23:49.07narniabrlcad, ping
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050226

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050226

01:29.51janognop!
02:26.44brlcadpong
02:44.37brlcadheh
03:07.14janohmm
03:07.20janosister on sister action?
03:07.21janoerr
03:07.33janokinda gross but cool
03:09.45brlcadheh
04:03.59janoooo
06:21.31PrezKennedytonight sucked
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16:38.55*** part/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
16:45.14*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
17:16.41*** join/#brlcad danfalck (~danfalck@wbar1.sea1-4-5-017-067.sea1.dsl-verizon.net)
17:17.23narniadanfalck, hello again. ;-)
17:17.39danfalckhi
20:52.24*** join/#brlcad learner (~brlcad@pcp0011649376pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
20:52.24*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
21:00.39janoBORK
21:30.19janohttp://jano.smugmug.com/photos/16532185-M.jpg
21:30.21jano:D :D :D
21:45.50narniabrlcad, ping
23:53.48danfalckping...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050227

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050227

00:30.28janognop
03:21.39PrezKennedyding
03:47.06janognod
03:47.40danfalckok....tell me about brlcad
03:51.46janowell.. he's male, late twenties, likes to program
03:54.50danfalckdo you use the brlcad application?
04:00.30janosorry, I haven't used it in a long time
04:00.42janoit's essentially a cad program
04:00.48janothat mainly uses CSG for modelling
04:02.31danfalckare there a lot of programmers working on it?
04:06.19danfalckis it a project with a lot of potential?
04:06.39danfalckI'm interested in o/s cad/cam
04:06.54janoit's used by the government if that means anything to you
04:07.04danfalckI do tooling design/drafting and some CNC programming
04:07.15janobest would be to talk to brlcad when he wakes up
04:07.21danfalckok. thanks
04:07.25janohmm
04:07.44janoi dunno if he's awake
04:07.55brlcadi'm here.. gimmie a secd
04:08.00jano:)
04:08.04danfalckhi
04:08.11danfalckthanks jano
04:31.23brlcadsorry about that danfalck .. was away in the middle of something
04:31.27brlcadwhat would you like to know?
04:32.33brlcadBRL-CAD is a solid modeling system
04:33.16brlcadincludes a csg-based modeler, several raytracers, lots of geometry import/export controls, some animation and procedural geometry support
04:33.38brlcadfor developers it gets even better, with a couple dozen isolated libraries
04:33.48danfalckyou invited us over from the #emc irc channel.
04:33.59danfalckI'm into drafting/tool design and CNC programming
04:34.12brlcadahh, I thought your name was familiar
04:34.26danfalckI'm interested in open source cad/cam
04:34.28brlcadi think narnia mentioned you too
04:34.59danfalckwould brlcad be useful, at some point, in outputting g-code?
04:35.15brlcadat some point, yes -- definitely
04:35.28danfalckok, good
04:35.34brlcadin fact I believe that's specifically one of narnia's goals to get working
04:35.56danfalckwhat have you been able to do with brlcad so far?
04:36.19brlcadbrl-cad is used extensively by the gov't for ballistics and vulnerability analyses
04:36.52brlcade.g. there's a complete brl-cad model of pretty much any tank in existance
04:37.04danfalckok. do you have it working on your computer?
04:37.07brlcaddown to the wires, fuel lines, etc
04:37.35brlcadheh, yes, it works on my computer
04:37.39brlcadand lots of others ;)
04:38.01danfalckok. I've been looking at the web site and just started skimming the mged tutorial
04:38.02brlcadit's pretty cross-platform -- weakest link is probably windows
04:38.15danfalckI don't need Micro$oft
04:38.21brlcadmged is one of 400 tools, albeit the one that gets most of the attention
04:38.35brlcadi'm not that fond of it myself, but it is in widespread use in the gov't
04:39.44danfalckare you a draftsman or computer programmer?
04:40.20brlcadmy primary hat is that of a computer scientist
04:40.46danfalckhave you been working with it for a long time?
04:41.00brlcadsoftware design, graphics, AI
04:42.13danfalcksorry for all the questions. I'm trying to get a feel for what's happening with the project now.
04:43.39danfalckI have looked at it in the past but always avoided it because of the non-gpl license. But that's changed
04:45.07brlcadno problem
04:45.40brlcadbeen working with brl-cad for about 7 years, computer programming for about 20
04:45.49danfalckgreat
04:46.28brlcadmost of the other/older brl-cad devs are at earshot too
04:47.45danfalckI see lots of references to CSG.  Can it do other things like draw profiles and extrude too?
04:49.02brlcadyes
04:49.07danfalckgreat
04:49.12brlcadthere are various "primitive shapes" in brlcad
04:49.31brlcadone of them is a "sketch" .. which is basically a common 2d drawing
04:49.37danfalckgood
04:49.40brlcadthat may be extruded to become a solid model
04:50.07danfalckI'm thinking in terms of drawing pockets to be milled out
04:50.15danfalckor engraving on a surface
04:50.15brlcadthere are also extruded bitmaps and a couple other similar 2d constructs
04:51.28danfalckor maybe even turned applications
04:51.47danfalckI've always got CNC on the brain
04:52.51danfalckwhat's the base machine right now for running the application on Linux?
04:52.54brlcadI'll need to read up more on g-code and cnc formats as that's admitedly outside of my field of experience to date
04:53.08brlcadbase machine?
04:53.30brlcadif it doesn't work, it's a bug or limitation of the new build system
04:53.33danfalckI have a 500 mhz AMD box here
04:53.50danfalcklowest class of computer...
04:54.19danfalckor I should say, minimum requirements
04:54.50brlcadthere's not really minimum requirements, unless you're familiar with old machines like a gould 9000 or a vax 11/780
04:55.09danfalckok.
04:55.26brlcadit'll just be a function of your model size
04:55.37danfalckthanks
04:55.52danfalckG-code isn't really complicated
04:55.58brlcadthat's source code though -- there are implicit limitations on the posted binaries
04:56.04danfalckit's just lines and arcs
04:57.15brlcade.g. the binaries are linked against opengl .. so massaging (or recompiling) is needed for non-opengl
04:57.28brlcadlines and arcs are pretty simple
04:57.59brlcadcould probably make a sketch -> g-code converter easily enough
04:58.12danfalckI'm learning python right now. Using simple drawing programs to study
04:58.14brlcadbut more useful would probably be an arbitrary plane cross section to g-code
05:01.26brlcadwhat kind of views are usually significant for cnc machines?
05:01.53brlcaddoes it genearlly work on fixed orthogonal planar projection outlines?
05:02.06brlcador are they arbitrary?
05:02.25danfalckIt depends on the work you want to do.  Basic milling can be done while looking at 2D view
05:02.55danfalckbut it's nice to have ortho view to see where the end mill(tool bit) is plunging or going back up
05:03.14brlcad2d milling is assumedly from a model that was modeled in 2d usually no?
05:03.23danfalckyes
05:03.30brlcadon the same plane even
05:03.36danfalckyes
05:03.56brlcadwhat about 3d milling?
05:04.00danfalckbut if you are doing multiple depth passes, it's nice to see where the tool is going
05:04.16danfalckfor surfacing (3d milling) ortho views are a must
05:04.34danfalckfor lathe work 2d is just fine
05:04.40brlcadhmm.. multiple depths .. how's that generally work in the modeling software?
05:05.03danfalckwell in commercial cam software, you start with a profile
05:05.17danfalckselect the direction of the tool path
05:05.30danfalckby clicking on the profile geometry on the screen
05:05.52danfalckand changing the direction of arrows on the profile path
05:05.54brlcadand it output's "slices" to mill
05:06.10brlcads/slices/depths/
05:06.13danfalckthen you fill in a dialog box telling the app depth, etc
05:07.19danfalckso simple profiles, with dialog boxes, then an editor popping up with G-code for the user to examine
05:07.55danfalckIt could really be done with a fairly simple program, which I would like to learn how to program
05:08.11danfalckso, I'm playing with some python cad apps
05:08.24brlcadsay I have a circle 2d model that I want for 3d milling?
05:08.36brlcadlike I want to mill a half sphere
05:08.41brlcadhow would that work?
05:08.58danfalckwell then I guess it gets more complicated
05:09.29danfalckI have seen "waterline" machining strategy where the tool goes around the part in the same plane
05:09.39danfalckthen moves down to the next depth
05:09.55brlcadi can imagine how the machine itself does it :)
05:09.55danfalckand does the same thing again at the larger diameter
05:10.12danfalckthere are zigzap strategies
05:10.14brlcadhow do the commercial modelers do that? :)
05:10.41danfalcksurfaces are selected
05:11.02danfalckthe app projects some sort of mesh over the surface
05:11.20danfalckthat is supposed to project the toolpath
05:11.38danfalckwithout gouging into the part (tool tips have to be considered)
05:12.14danfalckI've done guitar necks using Smartcam a few years ago
05:12.33danfalckand we used a strategy that ran the cutter along the length of the neck
05:12.50danfalckmoving to a different Z depth every pass
05:13.03danfalckwe used a ball end mill
05:13.04brlcadright.. but how did you tell the software to do that?
05:13.15brlcadi presume you modeled the neck in 3d
05:13.25danfalckyes, with ACAD, Rhino
05:13.44brlcadACAD or autocad?
05:13.52danfalckAutocad
05:13.54brlcadahh
05:14.09brlcad(there's another cad package called acad)
05:14.12danfalckoh
05:14.29danfalckNow I work in a shop that does mostly turning
05:14.39danfalckand it's a whole different ball game
05:14.53danfalckI program by hand...
05:15.24brlcadso now once you have the model imported from your cad package, how did you go about telling the software what you wanted to do?
05:15.38brlcadmilling-wise
05:15.49danfalckthe model imported in as a lofted surface
05:16.07brlcadah, so that gave you a starting plane
05:16.20danfalckso once it's in the CAM app, you end up selecting all the lofted arcs in sequence
05:16.34danfalckthen the app has an idea where to start from
05:16.52brlcadwere they linear lofts?
05:17.05brlcada guitar neck isn't linearly lofted in any dimension
05:17.27danfalckwell think of it as a series of arc in the YZ plane
05:17.45danfalcksorry I'm not better at explaining it
05:18.04brlcadbetter yet.. what was your model lofted from?
05:18.18brlcadfrom the base/top of the neck?  from the flat top surface?
05:18.20danfalckI started by digitizing an existing model
05:18.46danfalcklayed the neck with the fretboard(flat surface) down
05:19.05danfalckprobed over the back from one side to the other
05:19.19danfalckone YZ profile at a time
05:19.31danfalckmove in X .1" then do it again
05:19.43brlcadso you modeled the parabolic curve for one slice?
05:20.26danfalckI actually had to probe Jimmy Pages guitar neck and it was worn in spots
05:20.39danfalckso we did the whole back of the neck
05:20.48danfalckwe didn't do the headstock
05:21.00brlcadi'm asking, though .. how did you "do" that back of the neck
05:21.23brlcadyou have basically a long rectangle for starters
05:21.29danfalckok I see what you mean, I think
05:22.01danfalckI ran the probe across the neck from side to side generating a roughly parabolic shape
05:22.26danfalckprobed slices .1" apart from each other.
05:22.32brlcadno worries.. I can wander on over to a milling shop if need be :)
05:23.00danfalckforming a series of profiles that remind one of the skeleton of a snake :)
05:23.02brlcador just talk to one of my friends that work for some of the cam companies
05:23.31danfalckbasic milling is a lot easier to deal with
05:23.36brlcadokay, so sliced perpendicularly down the neck
05:23.42danfalckyes
05:23.57danfalckonce the data is in the modelling/cad program
05:24.03brlcadso you end up with a slew of parabolicish curves
05:24.09danfalckyes
05:24.11brlcadthat end up forming the surface mesh
05:24.38brlcadso when you brought that into the cam software
05:24.52danfalckyes. But I didn't need to massage the surface much since I took so many readings
05:25.03brlcadyou told it to start with the long rectangular base as the starting face .. i.e. "the bottom"
05:25.16danfalckyes
05:25.35danfalcktell the cam app to start machining from one end or the other
05:25.49danfalckgive it the diameter of the ball end mill
05:26.04brlcadthen you selected each arc from smallest to large/widest for milling "down" the neck
05:26.44danfalckWith Smartcam, it could either loft the same way that I probed the part or it could generate lines perpendicular
05:26.54danfalckto the original ones
05:27.19danfalckI ended up machine it both ways to see which worked the best for finishing
05:27.27brlcadso the tool bit is actually pointing down the guitar neck (parallel to the rectangular base) as opposed to pointing towards the front of the guitar
05:27.47danfalckit was pointing toward the fron of the guitar
05:28.04danfalckas if the guitar was laying on it's face
05:28.09brlcadokay
05:28.30danfalckwe used a giant Komo router to do the first 50 necks for production
05:28.30brlcadhm.. then the software must of had some sort of path interpolation
05:28.35danfalckyes
05:28.45brlcadto tell it how to mill smoothly across the slew of slice surfaces
05:29.01danfalckyes it was really slick
05:29.16danfalckmulti thousand dollar package
05:29.37danfalckit might have been 10k back then
05:29.51danfalckLuckily I didn't have to buy it myself
05:30.19danfalckI have a small garage shop for a hobby
05:30.44danfalckand use Autocad , Rhino and a small cam package named Vector
05:30.57danfalckI just want to do some small hobby stuff
05:31.03janoooo i remember rhino
05:31.11janowhat happened to them?  they still around?
05:31.13danfalckI used to do lots of engraving with Vector
05:31.27danfalckrhino is still very popular
05:31.30janohmm
05:31.42janofor what.. cad stuff or ?
05:31.46danfalckyes
05:31.48janoah
05:32.00danfalckjewelry industry uses it a lot
05:32.06janothere's this other program out now that seems to have amazing results for other 3d
05:33.02danfalckI hear that a lot of people use Solidworks
05:33.16danfalckWe just purchase ProE at work. Haven't used it yet
05:33.25janoit was a program used by the dudes that did LoTR
05:33.43danfalckBut, I'm more interested in open source stuff because I like to tinker
05:33.47janoyah
05:34.55danfalckbrb
05:37.42danfalckok
05:42.18danfalckI need to go. I'll be monitoring this channel from now on.  Good talking with you guys.
06:14.02brlcadsame to you
06:14.20brlcadyeah, most commercial cad packages are several thousand dollars
06:14.41brlcadheck even brl-cad has had millions of dollars invested in it
06:18.00brlcadthat's what's made brl-cad's open sourcing so mutually hopeful
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15:56.40danfalckmorning
16:29.51brlcadmornin
16:40.44danfalckcan brlcad do any work on meshes?
16:40.54danfalckor export them?
16:41.52brlcadyes
16:42.45brlcadbrl-cad deals with triangles via BoT (Bag of Triangles) and NMG (generic non-manifold geometry) primitives
16:43.43danfalckit looks like I need to install brlcad and explore it
16:44.45brlcadby design, brl-cad prefers non-polygonalized geometry but there is a conversion path to triangles for any object/primitive
16:47.07danfalckso if I wanted to get started, I should just grab the *tar file and start reading the mged (sp?) manual?
16:47.39brlcadthat would be reasonable :)
16:48.23danfalckok. I will do it.
16:49.02danfalckI eventually want to set up a manufacturing system using o/s cad linked to EMC on my machines
16:49.09danfalckin my garage
16:49.58danfalckI own some cam stuff, but I have totally lost my appetite for closed source software
16:56.22brlcadbrl-cad's always been written in as "open" a development manner as was possible
16:57.04brlcadit was only through significant persistance and a bit of luck that it was able to go open-source
16:58.20brlcadbut it does make complete sense for brl-cad's specific situation and history
16:58.21janodoes BoT come with a bonus set of monkeys in a barrel?
17:00.09janothe sound you just heard was my joke doing mach 7 over your head
17:00.15jano:D
17:00.42janoBag of Triangles, Barrel of Monkeys
17:02.29brlcaddunno if he'd actually eat those
17:02.39brlcadprolly
17:03.51janohas it grown anymore?
17:04.30danfalckso you mentioned that a lot of money went into the development of brlcad
17:04.34danfalckmillions?
17:14.44brlcadconsider that the package has been around for 20 years with constant funding, support, staff, training, improvements, etc
17:15.29brlcadthat doesn't necessarily mean that it's commercially viable or great for the general public's needs -- it was designed to efficiently perform a very specific set of tasks
17:15.40brlcadand it does that _very_ well
17:16.48brlcadbut things like usability and user interface enhancements is something that gets handled as an afterthought as it's never funded
17:28.10danfalckthanks for the info.  I will install tonight.  I'm going out for a walk.
17:28.36brlcadhave a good one
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19:25.01PrezKennedyding
19:53.09narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
19:58.23danfalckhi
19:58.31danfalcknarnia: hello
20:05.55narniadanfalck, hello, how goes it?
20:06.30danfalckok
20:06.44narniadanfalck, sorry, i was searching on google for some more info on the express language.
20:06.51danfalckI have been quizzing brlcad about BRLCAD
20:07.06narniadanfalck, that is good.
20:07.19danfalckit sounds like a pretty heavy duty app with a lot of potential for what we would like it for
20:07.26narniadanfalck, so what do you think so far?
20:07.53narniabrb, need coffee.
20:08.05danfalcknarnia: well, I have just scratched the surface.  It is kind of intimidating
20:10.22danfalcknarnia: but if you're into it, I am willing to try it out
20:10.37danfalckbrb-fixing sandwich for son
20:14.12danfalckok I'm back
20:14.33narniadanfalck, i am here.
20:14.55danfalcknarnia: are you running brlcad now?
20:15.03narniayes.
20:15.20danfalckwhat have you been able to do with it so far?
20:17.22narniamainly building models of past projects. exploring alternative methods of construction.
20:18.49danfalckcan one make a drawing w/ dimensions on it for presentation to a shop?
20:19.26danfalckI see lots of references to 3d models and CSG, but wonder how deep it is.
20:20.21narniaprobably the best way would be to look at the brlcad manual and tutorial.
20:20.41danfalckyes
20:20.51danfalckmged manual
20:21.01narniayes
20:22.17danfalckI have a Morphix based computer here, with EMC RC46 on it. I will see how much space I have left on it and install there.
20:22.41danfalckI've got the manual on this OS X box now
20:23.46narniaas in macos x?
20:25.08danfalckyes
20:25.20narniaimac or emac?
20:25.23danfalckcube
20:25.33narniaah
20:25.41danfalckvery quiet and small
20:26.06danfalckI can run a load of gnu apps on it using X11
20:26.28narniai have an imac and an emac. i would like to have a mac mini to play with. those look interesting.
20:26.49danfalcksame here. I would like one too.
20:28.12narniadid brlcad happen to mention if he will be around today when you chatted with him?
20:28.47danfalckhe was around this morning about 8:00 am pacific time
20:33.55narniaah
20:34.09narniasorry was dealing with the puppy.
20:34.35narniai need to take him for a walk. i will be back later.
20:34.46danfalckok chat with you later
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20:39.05jnchowdy
20:41.51danfalckhello
20:50.58jnci'm thinking about writing up an ebuild, which would allow Gentoo Linux users to install brlcad
20:52.32danfalckcool
20:53.03danfalckI'm using a Morphix/Debian based distro
21:20.09brlcadjnc: starseeker had put together and submitted an ebuild already
21:20.34brlcadnot sure where or how far he got, but he did help me track down a coupld sandbox problems that were fixed
21:21.39brlcadjnc: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197
21:22.03brlcadsome things there I'd hope change, but it's a start
21:25.20brlcadthings like running on more than x86 -- i just decommisioned by ppc gentoo box, or I would be pressing that myself
21:26.53brlcada couple more concerns are fixed in the latest builds and will be in a new source/binary upload that should get posted this coming week
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00:19.19narniabrlcad, ping
00:19.39danfalckhey there
00:20.25narniadanfalck, hello.
00:20.55narniabeen trying to update the express lib but i have hit a roadblock. :-(
00:22.13narniasomehow i need to obtain a copy of ISO 10303-11:2004. www.iso.ch wants 260.00 swiss francs for the pdf version.
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05:16.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: take care of the bsd sys/mount.h present but cannot be compiled problem by making the test account for the export symbol name (addresses sf bug 1109930)
06:09.49CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: just need to include sys/param.h
09:08.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/doevent.c:
09:08.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: illumination selection should not take the aspect ratio into account or you end
09:08.52CIA-3BRL-CAD: up unable to select geometry when the window is more wide than tall. Selection
09:08.52CIA-3BRL-CAD: bands need to include a band for all objects displayed on the vertical. (sf bug
09:08.52CIA-3BRL-CAD: 1114269)
09:15.07CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed non-square window mged illumination selection (sf bug 1114269)
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15:39.28brlcadhello brainZzZ
15:39.30brainZzZfree brlcad.
15:39.46brlcadhmm?
15:40.24brlcadbrl-cad is free :)
15:40.38brlcadI'm not so free usually, though
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19:15.19narniabrlcad, ping
19:25.32brlcadnarnia: pong
19:28.06brlcadsaw your note about 10303-11
19:29.31brlcadthat one I do not have, but am curious why you think you need it.. from what I saw, libexpress covered the IS already
19:49.05narniabrlcad, libexpress has not been updated to the 10303-11:2004 standard. it blows it brains out on new express files.
19:52.00narniabrlcad, i have looked at several express/step projects i have found on the net. most have been abandoned or they are written in languages that require commericial packages. i.e. http://exp-engine.sourceforge.net/ is a good example. it is written in lisp. not that bad however the interface requires lispworks professional edition. the lispworks-personal edition will not work.
19:53.41narniabrlcad, numerous urls concerning express/step are broken. some are just totally useless.
19:56.18narniabrlcad, concerning express/step i have several interesting urls which basically say "express/step is much hype about nothing". if express/step are so popular why are the projects appear to be abandoned.
20:00.31brlcadi've seen exp-engine, it's interesting and could possibly be used in it's command-line processing mode -- but i think we should prefer a C library like libexpress of course
20:01.25brlcadthe modifications to revision 2 of -11 were posted on the website iirc -- just not the whole thing
20:01.56brlcadthere's also another C++ implementation that hooked to python that looked similarly promising, but libexpress still looks like it's the best bet
20:11.01narniabrlcad, the modifications to revision 2 of -11 have not been posted. there is an addendum to revision 1 of -11 is available for download from either iso.org/ansi.org.
20:13.08narniabrlcad, the problem with the express-engine project is that it is not maintainable. how many people want to learn common lisp? i learned lisp when symbolics computers were the current fad. expert-systems and knowledge engineering were the latest buzz words.
20:16.12narniabrlcad, the latest-pre-release of the express-engine is only available for windows. i find no unix vesion
20:16.49brlcadoh i agree that it's the lisp impl is the least desireable -- but it is a possibility to simply call it as an external process
20:17.35brlcadi'd rather fix libexpress myself, pick it up as a maintained library
20:18.07brlcadtalked to the original author a little bit, he's not really interested in continuing it's development any more
20:18.27narniabrlcad, i agree. maintaining lex,yacc, and c is a whole easier than yet another language.
20:19.02narniabrlcad, unless the yet another language was perl.
20:20.44narniabrlcad, there is another project on sourceforge named osexpress. it use 'ant' ( a java make ) and an 'antlr' (www.antlr.org) recursive-descent-parser. it was last updated in 2001.
20:20.45brlcadto date, there's not really been any involvement with perl in brl-cad beyond scripting some interfaces internally to get some job done
20:21.37brlcadso i'd be a "little" hesitant to toss it in unless there's some really active devs that want to use it and maintain it -- we don't quite have that situation yet
20:22.08brlcaddid you see the one in c++ that had hooks through python?
20:22.16narniabrlcad, the only reason for needing the -11:2004 express language reference manual is to modify the lex and yacc parser.
20:22.57narnialet me google for it a minute.
20:23.59brlcaddid you actually get the yacc file to convert with bison/yacc?
20:24.33brlcaddid you fix the problem, or did it just work on whatever platform you were testing?
20:34.05narniabrlcad, yes. the yacc file compiles with bison.
20:34.18narniabrlcad, i fixed it.
20:34.45brlcadwhat was it?
20:35.05narniai found a powerpoint document concerning pyexpress but i find no links to any source code or home pages.
20:36.19narniathere were several errors in the yacc file. and there were errors in the lex file. they still need to be cleaned up.
20:37.42narniafor some reason yyresult was declared as an 'int' and also as a struct pointer. after reading the yacc file in detail it was clear that they were not the same thing. bison did not grok that.
20:38.30narniai also converted any references to array sys_errlist to strerror().
20:38.33brlcadhmmm
20:39.20brlcadyeah, the latter wasn't a problem on the system I was on just by chance
20:39.23narniafedex does work and i even got express pretty print to work.
20:40.17narniagnu-3.4 did not like the sys_errlist and kept complaining about it. to silence gnu i just fixed it.
20:41.05narniathere were also some probelms with the yaccflags and flexflags in the original makefile and mkrules files.
20:41.39narniathe makefile and mkrules still need to be rewritten.
20:42.24brlcadoh, they are would be ditched if we pull it in
20:42.33narniathe code in general was in need of cleanup which i have been doing.
20:43.26brlcadmuch easier to work up a Makefile.am for the library than to fix/mimic their build
20:43.39narniaagreed
20:44.09brlcadare you "narnia" on sf.net?
20:45.18narnianot sure what you are asking. on sourceforge i am terrylr or aslan. for some reason freenode will not let me use the nickname 'aslan'.
20:46.20brlcadaslan must be one of the restricted bot names from past abuse
20:46.41brlcadI could probably get it unblocked if you really want it
20:47.38narniaon the emc project on sourceforge.net i am terrylr. https://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=6744
20:49.34narniaonce libexpress is squared away we still need to parse part21 files. i have been looking at the nist scl c++ code and have started changeing it over to straight c.
20:50.59narniahaving iso-10303-21 would be nice to have but not necessary at this point.
20:53.27narniaiso-10303-21:2002 is industrial automation systems and integration -- Product data representation and exchange -- Part 21: Implementation methods: Clear text encoding of the exchange structure
20:54.13brlcadI'm not familiar with that one
20:54.30brlcadwhat does it cover that is not covered by an AP itself?
20:55.07narniathat is not clear to me.
20:55.56brlcadwhat's hinting you towards needing to parse part21 files then?
20:56.21narniathe step files that i have.
20:56.40narniathey all start with ISO-10303-21;
20:56.40narniaHEADER;
20:56.40narniaFILE_DESCRIPTION((''),'2;1');
20:56.54brlcadfrom my understanding, we need an express parser to read the ap201/ap214 express schema files .. we feed it the ap and then the parser should be able to parse a conformant .step file for either of those ap's
20:57.38brlcadah, hrm.. maybe feed it the express schema for 21 too .. i'll look more closely at my .step files here
20:59.41narniahere is an extract from a step file i have.
20:59.44narnia#13584=DIRECTION('',(0.E0,-1.E0,0.E0));
20:59.44narnia#13585=VECTOR('',#13584,1.6E1);
20:59.44narnia#13586=CARTESIAN_POINT('',(4.670394736842E1,1.725E2,-1.535688475947E2));
20:59.44narnia#13587=LINE('',#13586,#13585);
21:00.39narniathe <#num> may be viewed as either a variable or a macro.
21:01.53narniathen there is the need for the glue to create a brl-cad database.
21:04.58narniaon ansi.org ISO 10303-21:2002 is 72 pages at $144.00 usd. so basically $2.00 usd per page. the borders on obscene pricing.
21:19.56brlcadyeah, most of the pricing is a bit rediculous for a spec
21:22.20brlcadmoney grubbing ..
21:23.08brlcadif they really wanted wide standards adoption, there's no real reason to not make it freely downloadable and charge for printed versions or special electronic (tapes, etc)
21:31.15narniaagreed
23:53.12*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
23:53.13*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is under way today (20050211)...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050301

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00:44.55*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
01:03.45jano*sigh*
01:04.12janopoek is sweedish for poke
01:04.15jano:D
02:29.43PrezKennedygolden corral?
02:30.09brlcadwas going to be there but they were closed
02:30.13brlcadso went to the tree
02:31.19PrezKennedymmmm
05:50.14narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
05:51.59danfalckyes
05:52.17danfalckI haven't installed brlcad yet
05:53.14danfalckhad to do other things last night. It will be another weekend before I can do it.
06:17.05brlcadno worries
06:20.27brlcadmm.. so much to do .. so much to do
06:20.52danfalckso much to learn
06:21.03brlcadimproved the package builders so that it'll attempt to detect and warn if an install was not yet performed
06:22.26brlcadi'm hoping we can have all of the platforms stabilized, backup systems in place, and test system back on-line by the end of this month
06:23.59brlcada bit wishful with all of the pressing deadlines.. but we shall see
06:29.44danfalckI will chat with you tomorrow.
06:30.21brlcadg'night
07:41.56CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: check for prefix and bindir initially for invalid permissions; create an install timestamp file that is used to warn the binary package makers if an install was never performed.
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16:54.00cad202Hi! I need to know how can I animate with brlcad. Is there any tutorial to animate?
17:20.57brlcadhowdy
17:21.49brlcadthe animation tools are very mathematical, but fairly robust
17:22.04brlcadthere's a couple papers on the web as well as some documentation in the distribution
17:22.42brlcadhttp://ftp.arl.mil/reports/tr-313/
17:25.39cad202ok!! Thank u very much!!!
18:00.27janogeezus
18:00.43janothey filled my office with balloons
18:00.46brlcadheya
18:00.48brlcadoooh
18:00.59narniabrlcad, hello, how goes it?
18:01.14brlcadjano, is today a special day? =)
18:01.23brlcadyou know i'm horrible with dates... b'days in particular..
18:01.31brlcadnarnia: howdy .. going well
18:01.46brlcadhow about you?
18:02.00narniai am okay.
18:04.11narniabeen working on cleaning up the express library, more conversion of c++ to straight c. stuff like that.
19:22.02janoi hate when people do this crap
19:24.07janonow i have to fake "joy" to make them happy
19:24.28brlcadi'm happy when you fake joy
19:28.37narniajano, why are you upset?
19:34.40janoi don't like people doing this stuff
19:36.28narniajano, look at this way at least you are able to be around other people.
21:41.43narniajano, there are those of us who have no really contact with other people in a face-to-face environment. our only contact is via the internet, e-mail, telephone, or the infrequent visitor who happens to drop in.
21:43.33narniajano, i have been homebound for 8+yrs. i would love to have people around who would fill my cube/office/etc with balloons. however, given the circumstances, i see the same walls everyday, 24/7.
21:44.41narniajano, or on the more rare occassion that someone actually offers to take me out for even just coffee. but like i said those of rare.
21:52.27janoi like interaction with people.  I do not like being center of attention.  
21:52.51janothe only reason they do "nice" things is ultimatley selfish.. they think i like it, and so feel good about themselves
21:52.54janoi do not like it
21:53.07janoso i ask them not to, and they persist
21:53.11narniajano, then tell them.
21:53.18janoi did
21:54.07narniajano, then tell them again this time using the words "harassment", "lawyers", and "complaint".
21:55.01janoi know brlcad doesn't like it, either
21:55.07jano:P
21:56.07brlcadis that where you scratch his eyes out and eat his liver? :)
21:56.51narniabrlcad, i would never do that to jano. besides he is not my type. ;-)
21:57.29brlcadi doubt he tastes very good too
21:57.39brlcadnot enough fat to flavor the meat
22:00.28narniabrlcad, would be nice if the opensource community had a library of the iso standards that could be checked out over the net. sort of like an iso standard version of netfliks.
22:08.24janono fat
22:08.33janoI'm all skin and bones
22:11.16janowowo
22:11.24janohelen got me a photography book
22:11.36janohuge thing, weighs like 5 pounds
22:28.42janohttp://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/hitchhikersguide/exclusive.asp#
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050302

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050302

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050303

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050303

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12:48.25Azlanhi.. I'm trying to compile brl-cad on my WinXp computer.. But the problem is.. i looked at the source and there only U*ix scripts.. Any alternative package??
12:49.29AzlanShould i dl automake for windows to?
12:50.23*** join/#brlcad Azlan (~d9d1678f@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:01.57brlcadAzlan: there are studio workspace build files (awefully out of date) in some of the directories that might be helpful
14:02.16brlcadAzlan: more likely, though, the easiest path to getting everything to work is via mingw/cygwin
14:02.49brlcadthere are new .net build files being put together, but those will not be likely ready for a while
14:03.40brlcadI'll be glad to help you through any problems you have with the build regardless of the build method, but especially if you choose the mingw route
16:12.59*** join/#brlcad CIA-3 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
17:43.28narniaknock, knock, anyone home?
18:04.47brlcadhowdy ho
18:23.21narniabrlcad, you still here?
18:23.53narniabrlcad, sorry i was reading an e-mail list.
18:24.06narniabrlcad, i have some good news.
19:27.55brlcadgood news? :)
19:34.34narniabrlcad, you still here?
19:34.56narniabrlcad, yes, good news. ;-)
19:35.50brlcadi'm still here
19:35.52brlcadwhat's up?
19:36.00narniabrlcad, there you be. ;-)
19:36.07brlcadthere I be
19:36.16brlcadand there you be
19:36.31narniabrlcad, i have a pdf copy of 10303-11:2004. express language reference manual edition 2.
19:36.36brlcadheh
19:36.49brlcadI won't ask, but good to hear :)
19:36.59narniabrlcad, it is entirely legal.
19:37.05brlcadah, even better
19:38.18narniabrlcad, to bring you update to date it may be quicker and easier if you have the time to read the following e-mail list. http://step.nasa.gov/pipermail/step-os/2005-March/date.html
19:38.52narniabrlcad, there are only 16 msgs.
19:38.57brlcadmkay
19:39.27narniabrlcad, the important msg is http://step.nasa.gov/pipermail/step-os/2005-March/000139.html
19:40.00narniabrlcad, perhaps you may obtain a legal copy also. ;-)
19:40.57narniabrlcad, i am comparing the -11:ed2 to nist express lib.
19:42.05narniabrlcad, i figure 5 days to get nist express lib updated. a couple days of testing. then perhaps have the folks on step-os test it.
19:42.22narniabrlcad, the part 21 parser is going okay.
19:44.47narniabrlcad, know anyone knowledgable in step-nc? step-nc is yet another iso standard. in other words obscenely expensive. ;-)
19:46.22narniabrlcad, i am also working on, for my own use, a couple perl scripts to help with the work.
19:49.16brlcadthat's pretty cool, hehe
19:49.20narniabrlcad, i am toying with the idea to write a perl script that would take an express file and create an xfig document from it.
19:49.34narniabrlcad, which part is pretty cool?
19:50.18narniabrlcad, i take it you have read the step-os e-mail list.
19:51.11narniabrlcad, any thoughts on the suggestion to implement ap210 since it covers most other aps?
19:54.02brlcadgive me a second
19:54.04narniabrlcad, sorry, just re-read that msg. ap203 covers most of the other aps. the person would like the brl-cad to support the gemometry portions of ap210.
19:54.17narniabrlcad, times up. ^_^
19:55.05narniabrlcad, ;-) i am joking. pulling your chain. pulling your leg. having some fun. etc.
20:27.11brlcadthat's about a second, right? :)
20:40.52narniabrlcad, sorry was watching fosset land in kansas. he made it sole around the world non-stop.
20:41.19brlcadnot a problem, just reading more of that list
20:41.52brlcadwonder if ap203/214 would similarly qualify as "iso 10303 support activity" :)
20:42.23narniabrlcad, good question.
20:42.56brlcadso the take seems to be that libexpress as received from nist is 1994 compliant but not 2004
20:43.30narniabrlcad, yes.
20:44.10narniabrlcad, i figure 5 days to get -11:2004 compliant.
20:47.10narniabrlcad, altering the yacc and lex files to keep express ed1 and add epxress ed2 so both will work is time consuming.
20:47.33narniabrlcad, did you happen to read my intro msg?
20:49.09brlcadyes, I read the whole thread
20:49.50brlcadCraig's name is rather familiar too
20:50.11brlcadprobably just from exp-engine though
20:50.44narniabrlcad, any comments on my intro? i think i covered what our goals are.
20:51.10brlcadNo, looked good
20:51.13brlcadwell put
20:51.52narniabrlcad, basically, the 'kiss' philosophy. ;-)
20:52.19narniabrlcad, as in 'straight c, yacc, and lex'
20:53.08narniabrlcad, at some point we will need to create a 'map' from express/step to brl-cad database.
20:53.39brlcadI'm a bit surprised Steve posted, but no matter.. we're now one step closer
20:53.46narniabrlcad, need to search for some gnu gpl or public domain brep to csg routines.
20:54.12narniabrlcad, no pun intended i am sure. ;-)
20:54.24narniabrlcad, do you know steve?
20:54.32brlcadactually that's one of the primitives that just needs to be added as a full-fledged primitive
20:54.57narniabrlcad, ah.
20:54.58brlcaddepending on which implementation of brep you're referring to of course
20:55.16brlcadwe already do polygonalized brep
20:55.21brlcadwe don't do spline
20:55.57brlcadand that's mainly just because the modeler needs a slew of changes to support them
20:56.08brlcad(like a new modeler) ;)
20:56.39narniabrlcad, you should have that done in a day ro two then. ;-)
20:57.41brlcadheh
20:58.08brlcadknowing exactly what I need to do doesn't make it any easier :)
20:58.33narniabrlcad, on a serious note, at some point in the distant future spline brep will be supported.
21:00.28janobuckyballs!
21:01.00brlcadnarnia: most definitely
21:05.57brlcadnarnia: adding new primitives is only generally difficult in one aspect -- the ray-intersection test
21:06.31brlcadi've been meaning to write a paper on just how to do that, having written two new primitives myself
21:08.15brlcadi'd have to pull up some research papers on implicitly defined spline computations, but I suspect what will be most problematic is the root solver
21:08.48narniabrlcad, umm.
21:08.52brlcadbrl-cad's current root solver is one that favors speed over most other qualities because the primitives that use it are _very_ well behaved
21:09.02narniajana, stickybuns.
21:09.14brlcada generic spline primitive would not necessarily be so well behaved
21:09.16narniajano, as in pastry.
21:09.44narniabrlcad, agreed.
21:10.23brlcadThere are lots of readily available quadratic root solvers in abundance though .. just need to test them out
21:10.25narniamy typing sucks today.
21:11.15narniabrlcad, will you be around this evening?
21:11.22brlcadshould be
21:12.10narnianarnia, okay. i really need to go soak my left arm. i will be back this evening.
21:13.00narniabrlcad, today has been a good day.
21:13.34brlcadindeed!
21:13.43brlcadnice job on the list
21:13.50brlcadI wasn't even aware of that list until now
21:17.27janosoak your left arm
21:17.34narniabrlcad, thank you. i found it yesterday. figured it was worth a shot.
21:17.44janothat's just the most random goodbye statement I've seen
21:18.10jano:D
21:18.17narniajano, i would but tom, the new puppy, needs someone to watch him.
21:19.02narniajano, i am the official puppy watcher.
23:52.58AzlanThen mavy its easyer compileing on linux for windows?? Possible?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050304

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050304

00:20.34brlcadhmm?
00:21.10brlcadcompiling on linux for windows.. mingw or cygwin is about as close as you're going to get
00:45.12Azlanok.. haven't checked.. thx.. I'll try tomorrow.. Good night..
00:55.16brlcadgood night!
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01:31.04janoI'm sick again :\
01:52.51brlcadzee poo beebee
03:09.59narnia<PROTECTED>
03:10.49brlcadsort of
03:10.55brlcadnot home yet
03:21.12narniabrlcad, good you are swtill here.
03:25.29narniagoing through 10303-11:1994 and 10303-11:2004 is going slower than i thought it would.
03:25.50brlcadso is releasing 7.2
03:26.57narniathe both 11:1994 and -11:2004 the syntax rules change depending on the context.
03:28.25narniait would be nice if there was an official 'diff' of -11:1994 and -11:2004.
03:29.08brlcad'diff' isn't helpful? :)
03:30.16narniawell, pdf2text is not that good. i only have -11:2004. i do have the important part of -11:1994 namely the bnf.
03:31.10brlcadahh, true.. pdf ;)
03:32.53narnia-11:2004 does not provide any insight as to why the syntax has changed. so i am having to re-read parts in an attempt to get the 'flavour' of what is being changed.
03:34.10narniadid you subscribe to step-os? just wondering.
03:38.27brlcadyes, I did
03:38.55narniathe additions to express are relatively easy. it is the obsolete and deprecated syntax that does not change since express ed1 should still be supported. it is where the syntax has changed that is the hard ones.
03:39.20narniabrlcad, great. we can double-team them. ;-)
03:41.46narniathankfully, there is not a lot of express ed2 aps out in the wild yet.
03:41.56brlcadheh
03:42.19brlcadyes, that would be a pita if it wasn't a 2004 spec
03:45.16narniahere is a good example of a change that i am trying to understand
03:45.31narniaexpress ed1 function_decl = function_head [ algorithm_head ] stmt { stmt } END_FUNCTION ';' .
03:45.51narniaexpress ed2 function_decl = function_head algorithm_head stmt { stmt } END_FUNCTION ';' .
03:46.22narniaalgorithm_head is optional in ed1 but required in ed2.
03:46.53brlcadyes, what's not understood?
03:47.32narniawhy the change?
03:48.18brlcadahh.. could be simply because having optional arguments without surrounding arguments is rather difficult to parse
03:48.32brlcadwhat if my algorithm mand statement are the same
03:48.52brlcadmaking it optional precludes that possibility
03:49.19brlcadcould have been some other less practical and more political reason
03:49.47brlcadthat's an easy one to support though.. just make sure it's optional and both are supported, unless we add a strict conformance mode for each spec
03:51.34narniaback when i worked for a united nations agency i know how meetings would turn out based on the color of passports. red == communists block blue == u.s.a block black = non-aligned block.
03:52.49narniaback when i worked at ft. meade, maryland. the outcome of meeting was along which branch of service had the most uniforms present.
03:56.15brlcad:)
04:00.12narniabrlcad, are you still at work?
04:00.24brlcadyes
04:00.52brlcadfew more things to finish up
04:01.01narniabrlcad, it is 2300 hrs in maryland.
04:01.18brlcad2301, but yes :)
04:01.33brlcadthis is not unusual for me
04:01.54narniawell i am going to go catch the news. be back around 2330.
04:02.08brlcadokie dokie
04:02.15narniabrlcad, i do my best work between 2200 and 0600 . ;-)
04:02.26brlcadlikewise
04:02.29narniai normally sleep from 0600 to noon.
04:02.36brlcadlikewise :)
04:03.02brlcadthough sometimes I'll get up a lil eariler than noon
04:45.22janoi wake up about 0530
04:57.35brlcadI sleep about 0530
04:58.40janohahah
04:58.52janohad time to think about surf safari? :)
05:15.46brlcadnot much yet :)
05:26.41CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/db5.h: define the db5 minor type for superell even if it uses the v4 macro
05:27.46jano:(
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06:04.39janollama llama llama duck
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12:35.09AzlanCannot compute sizeof (void *), 77            ??? Help
12:39.03Pimpinellawhat should this be?
12:41.11Azlanin configure
12:44.28Azlanusing Cygwin for compilation to windows
12:47.14AzlanHave to go to work now.. But i'll be back later.. Bye.
19:50.17narniabrlcad, ping
22:45.30narniabrlcad, ping
23:00.39brlcadpong
23:10.33[Prez|Kennedy]ding
23:44.30brlcaddong
23:48.34[Prez|Kennedy]hahah you said dong
23:48.59narniabrlcad, you still here?
23:58.02brlcadthere really is no need to keep asking if i'm here or not .. i'll read it eventually regardless ..
23:59.33brlcadI phase in out of doing other things but rarely just hang around waiting on irc ;)
23:59.54brlcadso best to just say/ask/do whatever :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050305

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050305

00:18.15narniabrlcad, sorry.
00:19.34narniabrlcad, have you had a chance to read the 10303-11ed2.pdf? if so would you be able to explain to me what the purpose of total_over is?
00:20.48narniabrlcad, i have re-read 10303-11ed2 several times and i still do not understand total_over. i need to understand it before i can attempt to parse it.
00:21.45narniabrlcad, also i was going to place the original nist scl3-2 release into cvs and fork it and use the fork. any thoughts?
00:24.14narniabrlcad, spent most of the day reading various e-mail lists devoted to step/10303-11/part21. rather boring reading but necessary to understand where the working group is coming from. does give some insight into 10303-11ed2.
00:26.02narniabrlcad, my estimate of 5 days was too optimistic. until i can understand the workings of -11ed2 i am going to holdoff on any further estimates.
00:26.28narniai will be back later.
00:27.39brlcadHmm, heh, no need to be sorry either :)  ... no i haven't read it yet
00:27.54brlcadi've been working on the 7.2 release posting
00:30.36narniabrlcad, it is rather obtuse in parts.
00:30.50brlcadi can imagine
00:31.22narniaplain english with some examples and pictures would be better.
00:32.03brlcadI've intended to bring in at least libexpress into cvs ever since they told me that they are no longer interested in supporting it
00:33.02brlcadit didn't seem like most of the rest of scl is relevant
00:33.19narniabrlcad, i am going to get the original scl3-2 source into my cvs server sometime tonight.
00:33.23brlcadcept maybe fedex .. but that's a stretch
00:33.44narniafedex is a good checker.
00:34.52brlcadI could possibly see using parts of it in the converter for validating an input before conversion
00:36.10narniaat somepoint in the future libexpress would be worth rewriting from scratch. there are a good many kludges in the source code.
00:36.50narnianot that there is anything wrong with kludges. ;-)
00:36.56brlcadheh, that's one of those components not high on my scale of "worth" for rewriting
00:37.14brlcadthere are other chunks of code that I'd rather rewrite with infininte time :)
00:37.28narniai have all the time. 24/7 i am here.
00:39.04narniabrb need to see what tom, the puppy, is currently destroying.
00:40.35narniaoaky, i am attempting to type with the puppy in my lap. 4 months old and weighs 31 lbs. ;-)
00:40.43brlcadheh
00:41.14narniatom, has been a one puppy wrecking crew today.
01:10.57CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/cvsignore: ignore generated build files when updating
01:55.06janocan't get this pressure point outta my head
01:55.23janofeelin all stressed and feelin all right..
01:55.30janoaaahhhh pressure pressure pressure
06:52.14*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
07:00.14janohttp://www.pbase.com/zylen/image/37511999/large
07:00.55brlcadpurdy burdie
07:01.12jano:)
07:01.21janowhat you up to this weekend?
07:01.24brlcadwe have several bald eagles out behind our building
07:01.37janoooo
07:01.52janomake a teleporter so I can go get some pics!
07:02.18brlcadi've thought to take a zoom lens out and get some pics some time
07:02.41jano:)
07:02.45janoI needa get me a bigma
07:02.50janosigma 50-500mm :D
07:02.55brlcadthe best shots are from the office, though -- so I'd have to get a camera pass first, and that's a pain
07:03.16janoah
07:03.18jano:(
07:06.33janohmm
08:35.56CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: give the RT execs better names especially for the ?able ones
08:46.47CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: 7.2.0 was released on 20050305; mged illumination fix didn't make the tag; begin new section for the next release.
08:49.10CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac README): update the version to dev patch number 7.2.1
09:39.28CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: clarify and clean up the release to-do list
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16:59.44janohttp://www.ghostalmedia.com/banana/banana.swf
16:59.54janohttp://www.filmbuffs.net/bananana/badgerphone.swf
16:59.56jano:D
17:02.16brlcadthat's just wierd
17:02.20jano:D
17:02.29janoit just made my day :D
17:02.35janoi found a heavy metal version of the song
17:02.44narniaflash/shocwave are a total waste of bandwidth. argh.
17:02.49janoonce it's d/l I'll be sure to share :)
17:03.11brlcadhmm
17:03.16brlcadnot that funny to me
17:03.19jano:(
17:03.31janoit's jano humor :)
17:03.35narniais macromedia went bankrupt tomorrow i would not shed any tears.
17:03.54janoyou liked salad fingers crap though
17:04.41brlcadsalad fingers was VERY wierd .. but very artistic too
17:04.56narniabbl
17:05.08janoartistic as a dingleberry
17:07.00janoit's like those people who play the avante garde crap on guitar
17:07.14janoping.... dong.... eeeeeeeeeeAAAAAHHHHH  Ffffffffrrrrrrrrr
17:09.04brlcadyet a dancing bananna is okay .. yeeeeeaaahhh...
17:09.37janoi don't care about the flash itself.. i like the music :)
17:09.52janoand the reference to the idiotic badger was cute
17:11.53janookay.. fine.. how about this?  http://datas.fun4fun.com/videos/3751.mpg
17:12.01janoa little bit of adult humor, fyi
17:14.02brlcadI like brunettes more ;)  but cute
17:14.29brlcadheh
17:14.54janobut yes, i prefer brunetes and redheads two, if I had to chose
17:14.59janoand some day, i hope I do have to
17:15.01jano:D
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22:56.54janonooooooo
22:57.02janophole is on its last limb
22:57.07janojust lost our first hard drive!
22:57.09jano:(
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050306

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050306

00:23.19narniabrlcad, well after numerous reading of -11ed2 i think i finally understand 'total_over' and 'andor'.
02:01.23brlcadcool
02:05.52CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: root authorization and yes, it's required for the compat folks too
02:53.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: create pax files in cpio format and strip the leading slash so that the stored archive loation is relative
03:51.14CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: avoid segment violation on a short argv[1]
04:03.55brlcadouch
04:48.03narniabrlcad, for a first draft of the express interface for brl-cad instead of attempting both ap203/ap214 would just ap203 be acceptable?
04:49.25narniabrlcad, the reason i ask that is because the by learning from the mistakes i make with a simple ap would allow additional aps to go more smoothly.
04:56.12narniabrlcad, s/simple/single/
05:25.23brlcadnarnia: of course
05:29.18brlcadthat makes sense regardless to just get one working first
05:33.09brlcadap214 is less common since it was ratified a couple years after, though it is the one with csg
05:37.06narniabrlcad, i am writing some perl scripts to help me work through the changes to libexpress.
05:39.42narniai was looking at ap210 not sure about that on. it is mainly electronic. that was the one a member of step-os suggested.
05:40.37narniai still am trying to figure out what STEPmod on sourceforge is all about. i am not into xml or dtd.
05:42.12narniai have come to the conclusion that there is alot of verbose meaningless junk on the internet about step. the wg11 mailing list. talk about egos.
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09:20.52CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: copy the archive into a temporary root for creating a proper bill of materials
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19:06.25brlcadhello asheron
19:18.04*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-68-93-193-152.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
19:18.22EricWilhelmanybody know of some open-source cam software?
19:19.04EricWilhelm(I know, what a great Sunday-afternoon question.)
19:21.56brlcadEricWilhelm: nope, not a one
19:23.28brlcadthat's part of what's being worked on now with the step converter and g-code converter
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19:45.02narniaEricWilhelm, i am working on that.
19:45.55narniaEricWilhelm, just in the last week we have received significant help in that area.
19:47.01narniaEricWilhelm, basically three separate projects are being either merged or glued together to give us opensource cad-cam.
19:47.41narniaEricWilhelm, brl-cad, emc, and my project http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnu-cad-cam
19:49.41narniaEricWilhelm, emc http://sourceforge.net/projects/emc and of course brl-cad http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
19:49.56narniabrlcad, did i miss anything?
19:50.23brlcadthat's about right
19:58.52*** part/#brlcad Koolosh (~renato@200164252211.user.veloxzone.com.br)
20:01.33narniabrlcad, it is beautiful here today, 60+f, sunny, lite breeze.
20:01.56brlcadyeah, gorgeous here too .. looking to wander out
20:02.01narniai am going outside to enjoy it with tom, the new puppy. ;-)
20:03.13narniatell you what let's go play outside and pick things up later. ;-)
20:10.00brlcadheh, :)
20:40.50EricWilhelmthat sounds awesome!
20:43.09narniaEricWilhelm, it is. ;-)
20:43.41EricWilhelmboth the weather and the collaboration :-)
20:44.04brlcad~weather kbwi
20:44.48EricWilhelmI'll be lurking, hoping to do some good with the uber-converter.
20:44.57EricWilhelm~weather kci
20:45.21brlcad~weather kkci
20:45.53brlcadclosest national airport is usually an easy icao code
20:46.43EricWilhelm~weather klwc
20:47.06brlcadchilly
20:47.50EricWilhelmand since I just sold my house, next month's weather is in:
20:47.55EricWilhelm~weather kpdx
20:48.35brlcadahh, that's got to be an improvement :)
20:48.41EricWilhelmoo.  hope it warms up a bit before I get there :-)
20:50.21EricWilhelmnarnia, where are you keeping the code base? do you have a mailing list?
21:03.12narniaEricWilhelm, code base is currently on my computers. no mailing list as of yet.
21:04.37narnia-weather kdkb
21:05.02narnia~weather kdkb
21:30.52danfalckEricWilhelm: so, you're moving to Portland, Or?
21:32.12danfalckEricWilhem: I'm interested in CAM and work in Portland, Or
21:32.52danfalckEricWilhelm: I use EMC to control machines and need an opensource CAM package.
22:17.05EricWilhelmdanfalck, we should talk
22:17.15EricWilhelmhttp://scratchcomputing.com
22:37.26danfalckEricWilhelm: sorry I was out riding my bike for a bit
22:39.05danfalckEricWilhelm: you are on the linuxcad mailing list, right?
22:39.35danfalckor I should say the one that phrostie started for open source cad software
22:40.24narniadanfalck, hello, how goes it? was out playing with tom, the new puppy. beautiful day.
22:40.44danfalcknarnia: it's a beautiful day here as well
22:40.49narniadanfalck, did you see my comments above?
22:41.11danfalcknarnia: some of them
22:41.22danfalcknarnia: how are you doing?
22:42.02narniadanfalck, this past week brlcad and i have been given access to the iso step documents. big help having those documents.
22:42.27danfalcknarnia: so you are migrating some libraries (express?)
22:43.01narniadanfalck, i am working on getting the nist scl3-2 libexpress updated to 10303-11ed2.
22:44.02narniadanfalck, working on the parse, bison/yacc and flex/lex, to read in iso-10303-21 files.
22:45.18narniadanfalck, ap203 is the next milestone. once that is done map from ap203 to brl-cad database.
22:46.03narniadanfalck, scoping out the requirements to generate g-code from a bdl-cad database.
22:46.34danfalcknarnia: wow.
22:46.45narniadanfalck, man need to rewrite some on the code i am recycling from my project.
22:46.57danfalcknarnia: I'm not a programmer, so that all sounds like a lot of heavy lifting...
22:47.25danfalcknarnia: I do appreciate your effort
22:47.51narniadanfalck, a large portion of the code exists, needs to be updated to latest editions of iso documents and glued together.
22:48.12danfalcknarnia: the gnu_cad_cam code?
22:48.22narniadanfalck, yes
22:48.36danfalcknarnia: is it on sourceforge?
22:50.05narniadanfalck, gnu_cad_cam design document is on sourceforge. trying to work through the projects. brl-cad and emc will be loosely coupled after the merge.
22:50.28danfalcknarnia: great
22:50.29narniadanfalck, gnu_cad_cam will eventually go away.
22:51.13narniadanfalck, replaced by the new interfaces to brl-cad and between brl-cad and emc.
22:52.49narniadanfalck, eventually want brl-cad and emc to 'talk' step-nc.
22:54.26danfalcknarnia: I need to step out for a bit.  My kids and I are going to build cork guns.
22:54.32danfalckgood chatting
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23:36.38*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-68-93-193-152.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050307

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050307

05:11.56*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
05:11.56*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
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16:35.50narniaEricWilhelm, there are no official notes on the new plan.
16:36.17narniaEricWilhelm, what do you by 'nesting'?
18:38.31EricWilhelmnarnia, nesting: placing multiple parts as efficiently as possible on a sheet
18:38.54EricWilhelmprimarily useful in punching and 2d/2.5d milling
18:40.49EricWilhelmalso water-cutting, plasma, and wire EDM
18:41.18EricWilhelmsay I have 40 parts of various shapes and I need to punch/cut 5 of some, 3 of others, etc
18:41.45EricWilhelmgiven a size of sheet or plate, how many sheets do I need and how do I most efficiently cut the required parts?
18:47.12narniaEricWilhelm, that is what i thought you meant just wanted to make sure.
18:48.08narniaEricWilhelm, also useful for the wire edm shops.
18:48.13EricWilhelmIs there a library of nesting algorithms that you'll be building with, or is that being implemented from scratch?
18:50.14narniaEricWilhelm, the nesting lib probably should be rewritten. the person who wrote it is no longer available to maintain it and not available to answer any questions concerning it. their departure was not planned or foreseen.
18:53.20EricWilhelmwhere is it?
18:59.59narniaEricWilhelm, where is what?
19:02.28EricWilhelmthe nesting lib.
19:02.36EricWilhelmIs it part of brlcad?
19:03.38EricWilhelmthe emc page seems to say that g-code generation doesn't happen in emc
19:06.12narniaEricWilhelm, the nexting lib is part of my project gnu_cad_cam. the source code has never been released.
19:06.20EricWilhelmoh.
19:06.50EricWilhelmany chance of me getting a brain-dump of this unreleased stuff?
19:06.51narniaEricWilhelm, emc does not generate g-code. emc interrupts g-code
19:06.57narniaEricWilhelm, no
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050308

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050308

01:57.58brlcadthere's not an open source nesting library yet as far as I know
02:03.34brlcadegads!
02:03.40brlcada wingy Twingy
02:07.02Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/basement.jpg
02:07.05Twingy^-- updated basement pic
02:07.41brlcadmmm.. ikea :)
02:08.00brlcadi think you need more flat panels
02:08.10brlcador a cave
02:08.17brlcada homemade cave
02:08.36Twingyyah
02:08.43Twingythe important thing is I can offsite three people no
02:08.44Twingynow
02:08.48Twingyone at the desk, one on the futon
02:09.30janowhat's the blue glowy thing next to the monitors?
02:09.35janoit has the thingies on top
02:09.37janothe cds
02:09.42Twingythat's my computer
02:09.53Twingyrunning freebsd + blackbox-minimal
02:09.58janoi thought it was the black thunk under the desk
02:10.03janonext to the foot stool
02:10.06Twingynope, subwoofer is in there :)
02:10.15Twingybut it houses a pc
02:10.22Twingyor I should say used to house my dual Piii 1ghz
02:10.33janoah
02:10.40Twingythe futon is comfy
02:10.48janoi bet
02:10.49Twingyfolds out into a bed :)
02:10.51janoi had two at jhu
02:10.55Twingyit's like 1 foot thick of padding
02:11.08janofutons are great until they die
02:11.11Twingyheh
02:11.14janoafter about 4 years
02:11.19janounless you get the super expensive size
02:11.25janoerr
02:11.25janokind
02:11.29janoalmost said tits
02:11.30Twingythat's what this is :P
02:11.33Twingyheh
02:11.53TwingyI think it was $500, but normaly $800 or something
02:11.54janomy autopilot is not working and i'm driving without my eyes on the road
02:11.59Twingyheh
02:12.07TwingyI've done irc on the road with my CDPD PDA
02:12.10Twingythat's tricky :)
02:12.21Twingyof course totally legal
02:12.22janoi mean in a figurative sense
02:12.25Twingyit's not a cell phone :P
02:12.36Twingystylus in one hand, steering wheel in the other
02:13.20TwingyBurga how far can you make a horse go?
02:13.20TwingyTwingy depends on how many rockets you strap to it
02:13.20TwingyBurga :P
02:14.14janohmm
02:14.40janoi'm finally getting back in shape :D I can run 5 miles without a heart attack :D
02:14.49Twingytoday was day 3 of 50 for running
02:14.55TwingyI'm doing my 50 consecutive days of running again
02:15.06janoeeewwww
02:15.10Twingyworking back up to 8 miles
02:15.13brlcadhmm.. 140 till siggraph?
02:15.17Twingyyah
02:15.23Twingyday 50 last year was 2nd day of siggraph
02:15.24janoi hate running but i'm not alowed to bike :(
02:15.27brlcadhehe
02:15.29jano140 until siggraph
02:15.34Twingyw00t
02:15.38janoso.. what.. 147 until we go on our surf safari????
02:15.44brlcad:)
02:15.44jano:D
02:15.48jano:D :D :D :D
02:15.48brlcadmaybe maybe
02:15.51Twingywe need to get Lee drunk this year
02:16.02janod00d.. like.. we can go down baja
02:16.04brlcadsake!
02:16.10TwingySAKEEEEE@#!
02:16.12janoI will send you some bruce brown movies
02:16.14Twingyhe wimped out and only had 1
02:16.25janoi tried sake with chris last year
02:16.28TwingyI had 4 and he had more of a buzz
02:16.29brlcadkermit says hi
02:16.31janoand it was nasty shit
02:16.51janogood thing it was accompanied by good sushi :D
02:16.52Twingyworking from home rocks, nobody here to annoy you :D
02:16.58jano;)
02:17.02janowho is kermit?
02:17.08Twingya green frog
02:17.16brlcada big green frog
02:17.17Twingywho works on top secret military projects for the government
02:17.31Twingywith miss piggy
02:17.33Twingy:)
02:17.33brlcadokay, time for pats or something
02:17.36brlcadcya
02:17.39Twingylater
02:17.39janochow
02:17.46Twingyit's choi damnit
02:17.47Twingy:D
02:18.01janono, that's a kind of fish
02:22.56Twingyamericas army time, afk
04:17.14brlcadI have been thinking about a nesting library today
04:17.17brlcadsince the comments
04:17.28brlcadi actually don't think it would be incredibly too hard
04:18.19brlcadit could be done pretty simply as a space optimization problem for generic geometry using librt
04:18.53brlcadeven a simple n^2 algorithm would work in 3d
05:14.43narniabrlcad, what do you think of the idea of asking the emc folks if brl-cad could have a sub-wiki on their wiki site.
05:18.01brlcadi do intend to bring the new website on-line soon, and it will have a wiki
05:18.35brlcadit's next on my plate after release 7.2.0
05:20.04Twingyhrm
05:20.10brlcadI'm hoping that within two weeks it'll be up and running
05:20.10Twingygotta get me some asianseses
05:20.26brlcadghod bless the internet for that
05:20.50brlcadahh, i was thinking of asians of a completely different sort
05:21.10Twingyall your g5 are belong to me
05:21.27TwingyI'll show you my observer-fu tommorrow, it's neat stuff y0
05:21.46TwingyTEAM AMERICA FUK YA!
05:21.57narniabrlcad, did not know that. a new website.
05:22.24Twingythe photon mapping in brl-cad sucks, who wrote that crap?
05:22.48brlcader, I mean points
05:23.22brlcadyou can't pass that buck on
05:23.31brlcadyou're name's locked in cvs at least :)
05:23.38Twingyugh
05:23.48Twingycan't we put mikes name in there
05:23.49brlcadblessed 20 years of history preserved
05:24.10Twingycause ya know he'll never be done shock and blast
05:24.16Twingyso atleast he'll be in cvs somewhere
05:24.45Twingy:}
06:02.23Twingythat was amusing
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14:16.52wiebeIs there a port to Debian?
14:18.16narniawiebe, i am running debian sarge and the brl-cad source code compiles clean. i know of no debian package for brl-cad.
14:20.25wiebeOK, sounds good then.
14:32.43brlcadthere is a submit for debian unstable iirc
14:32.51brlcaddon't know the current status
14:42.52brlcadI could probably get the .deb finalized more quickly myself, but I'd rather leave that to some kind soul that actually _likes_ debian
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16:29.47janoi like debian from management standpoint
16:29.55janosimple, no brains monkey installing
16:30.08janosetting up debs is a nightmare though
16:54.14brlcadIt's "meh" to me from a management standpoint .. apt is nice, but I do like emerge better
16:54.37brlcadinstall was better than most linuces i admit
16:55.14brlcadfrom a dev perspective, it's one of my least favorite platforms
16:55.41brlcadnot as bad as solaris dev'ing, but it's down there somewhere
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17:23.43*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
17:43.38narniabrlcad, i am curious why you rate debian low for development.
17:59.16janoemerge is nice if you want to wait for your program to install
17:59.19janoand compile
17:59.28janoit's a waste of time if you ask me
17:59.39janobut you didn't ask me :)
17:59.43janoso I won't say it
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18:31.51narniabrlcad, any thought on writing up a plan similar to the one i wrote for my project? http://gnu-cad-cam.sourceforge.net
18:33.28brlcadit's on the todo
18:33.31brlcadbut I need the website first
18:34.35brlcadthere is the sf task system that has some plans
18:35.07brlcadyou're on the access list to add to that too
18:44.38narniabrlcad, if i wrote one up and replaced my original gnu-cad-cam project plan with the new project plan?
18:49.41narniai am unable to add tasks under brlcad.sourceforge.net. says i do not have permission.
18:50.29narniamay be because i have no 'role' assigned under brlcad. i am listed but i have no 'role'. :-(
18:50.34narniano joy.
20:22.35brlcadsounds fine with me
20:22.47brlcadhrm, must have missed a checkbox
20:23.27brlcadahh, yes, you were given tentative cvs access only
20:28.15brlcadi have to be a little conservative on the access until to some things util most of the CMP issues get worked out, but you should have access to the tasker now
20:29.25brlcadif you need to add an actual task subproject, let me know to discuss
20:30.12brlcadsince they're persistent, want to make sure the namespace stays clean as possible .. but certainly willing to add whatever we need
20:31.09brlcadadding tasks to the TODO should be good for now .. succint unit goals of some sort
20:53.42narniai was going to add to the todo list.
20:54.05narniaupdate libexpress to express language reference manual edition 2
20:55.05narniacreate new c language bindings to standard data access interface
20:55.26narniaupdate the c++ language bindings
20:56.16narniacreate part21 parser (part21 Implementation methods: Clear text encoding of the exchange structure)
20:57.27narniascope out and write requirements document for brl-cad to g-code and/or step-nc interface
20:57.57narniathat should be enough for now.
20:58.40narniatomorrow is going to so much fun *_not_*. court is extremely boring.
21:08.36narniahmm, it appears that i am still roleless under brl-cad. still no joy.
21:09.01narniawould had the above tasks and assign them to me?
21:09.15narniawould you add the above tasks and assign them to me?
21:09.30brlcadhrm, you're logged in, right? )
21:09.43brlcadthe roles don't do anything
21:09.45narniasure am
21:10.23brlcadokay, try now
21:10.46narniastill no joy. "Access to this page is restricted (either to project members or to project administrators) and you do not meet the requirements to access this page. Please contact the administrator of this project for further assistance."
21:11.01brlcadehh, you're marked as a task admin and tech
21:11.07brlcadrefresh?
21:11.21narnialet me logout and log back in. brb
21:12.45narniaokay it is working now.
21:12.59narniaokay to add the above tasks to the todo list?
21:13.36brlcadof course
21:14.01narniabrb
21:20.57narniaokay how about an end-date of june 1st?
21:23.12narniaokay, done, 5 tasks add to the todo list.
21:23.21narniaall assigned to me.
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22:26.41brlcadso what are all the 10303 specs that are of primary interest?  -11, -21, -203, -214, others?
22:27.19narnia-22, -23, -24, -203, -214, possible -210
22:27.59brlcadwhat's 210?
22:28.14brlcadwhat're 22, 23, 24 for that matter?  other encodings?
22:28.25brlcad21 was text, iirc, yes?
22:28.50narniaPart 210: Application protocol: Electronic assembly, interconnection, and packaging design
22:29.43narnia21 is clear text, 22 is standard data access interface, 23 is c++ binding to 22, 24 is c bininding to 22
22:34.29narnianist scl covers all or part of 11ed1, 21ed1, 22, 23. there are no c language bindings in nist scl. the c++ language bindings probably need to updated.
22:36.51narniacraig lanning mentioned ap210 on step-os. Actually, if you implement a translator for AP203, you will then have
22:36.51narniamost of what you need for the other AP's.  Personally, I would like to
22:36.51narniasee BRL-CAD support the geometric portions of AP210 (this will require
22:36.51narniasupport for shape_aspect).
22:38.21narniathe above is what craig has written concerning ap210.
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22:43.45*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
23:18.42*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
23:18.42*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050309

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050309

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01:37.20PhantomBantamHow do you use the tools for analyzing structures?
01:56.42PhantomBantam"PATRAN [TM] and hence to ADINA, EPIC-2, NASTRAN, etc. for structural/stress analysis"
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06:15.07CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/openUp.c: M-x indent-region, quell return warning, add an argument usage check
06:16.14CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Makefile.am: allow openUp to be built on request
06:23.13CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/License.rtf: update old license file to new distribution terms from COPYING (with updates to non-source distribution)
06:27.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/ReadMe.rtfd/TXT.rtf: update to release 7.2.0
06:39.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/Welcome.rtfd/TXT.rtf: update to release 7.2.0
10:15.50*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
10:15.51*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
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15:50.25brlcadack
16:17.17janothere's nothing more fun than pissing someone off :D
16:17.22janowell
16:17.26janolet me rephrase
16:17.41janonothing more than than pissing off someone who pisses you off by maintaining a calm demeanor
16:17.44jano:D
20:21.33brlcadnarnia: the purchase went through
20:25.54*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-68-93-192-227.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
20:27.27brlcadno idea how long until delivery, we'll see
20:27.38brlcads/delivery/receipt
20:28.38janojill thought the pic of barney is adorable :)
20:30.01janoone day he's gonna come and bite me in the ass for not getting a model release
20:30.02jano:o
20:32.55brlcadheh
20:33.05brlcadonly if you've got bacon stuck to you
21:23.33janohahaha
21:23.57janonote to self: stop sticking bacon on my butt
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050310

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050310

00:30.46narniabrlcad, i have good, and i do mean good news.
00:42.41Twingy0xf00d
00:42.49jano~f00f
00:42.50iboti guess f00f is http://x86.ddj.com/errata/dec97/f00fbug.htm or F0 0F C7 C8
00:43.09jano~pick your nose
00:43.16jano:(
00:43.19Twingy~jano is a wanker
00:43.20ibotokay, Twingy
00:43.22jano~action pick nose
00:43.24ibotACTION pick nose
00:43.24Twingy:)
00:43.34Twingy~jano
00:43.35iboti guess jano is a wanker
00:43.36brlcad~snowball jano and Twingy
00:43.39ibotACTION launches a snowball tightly compressed with little shards of ice at jano and Twingy
00:43.51Twingypfft
00:44.18janoi went running this morning, and wow, the beach was beautiful
00:44.20brlcadit was really warm today
00:44.21janowaves galore
00:44.25brlcadalmost reached freezing
00:44.29Twingytoday was day 5 of 50 for me
00:44.30janodamn
00:44.34Twingy45 days of running to go :(
00:44.37janoi wore shorts and short sleave shirt
00:44.44Twingyrunning in the freezing cold with 10mph winds is not fun
00:44.49janohad to turn on the a/c in the car
00:46.39brlcadusing and oven and everything
00:48.36janowow
00:48.44janoactually
00:48.50janothat would be if jason were cooking
00:48.50narniabrlcad, i have parts 21(all editions),22,24,28, express language reference manual ed1. and i am allowed to send you copies.
00:48.50jano:D
00:50.00brlcadwow
00:50.02narniabrlcad, court went extremely well today. long day in chicago.
00:50.13brlcadthat's just great
00:50.37narniabrlcad, the parts, court, or both?
00:50.44brlcadof course the purchase went through for parts 21, 22, 23, 24, 203, 210, and 214 today too
00:51.06brlcadboth
00:51.14narniawell we do need part 23.
00:51.37narniawe also needed 203, 210, and 214.
00:52.12brlcadwell that's not a total waste of funds then
00:52.40brlcadnasa?
00:52.50narniabrlcad, judge was great today, ruled in our favor on all our objections and against the opposing lawyers on all their objections.
00:53.01brlcadexcellent
00:53.05narniabrlcad, steve at nasa.
00:56.54narniabrlcad, biggest ruling today was: me:: "fine if you say i should be able to find a job help find me a job. just to not tell me that i am not looking hard enough." opposing lawyer: "i object the witness is over answering the question asked" judge: "overruled. the answer makes perfect sense. if you keep saying mr. ridder is employable prove it. you have 2 months to help mr. ridder find a valid job"
00:57.52brlcadheh, excellent
00:58.01brlcadso now you just have to stay unemployed? heh
00:58.03janohmm
00:58.13janoyou guys suing the employer?
00:58.18janothat's not going to look good on the resume
00:58.20jano:(
00:58.25narniabrlcad, the oppsing lawyers also copies of 2001 through 2004 federal ans state tax returns. they lost that argument.
01:00.07narniajano, no actually illinois workman's compensation claim for work accident in 1996. basically my body was trashed. right lung collapsed (lost 1/2 of my right lung). many surgeries since 1996.
01:01.07narniajano, the employer had fraudlant work comp insurance. the claim has kicked to the illinois state guarantee trust fund.
01:02.19narniajano, my left arm is strictly a helper arm. i type mainly with my right hand.
01:02.41janoooooo
01:02.42janoouch
01:02.44janosorry to hear that
01:02.47jano:(
01:02.58janoca is very notorious for crappy worker's comp
01:02.59narniajano, 53yo with multiple phycial challenges no one wants to hire me.
01:03.19janoour rates are 10 times greater in some instances because of fraud
01:04.00narniathe opposing lawyers do not have a clue as to how to voc rehab a b.s.e.e.
01:05.54narniajano, onbe of my better answers today was: "what part of i have never done windows development, use windows, microsoft office, microsoft anything do you not understand?"
01:06.55jano"I don't do windows"
01:07.44narniajano, basically yes. "i don't do windows"
01:09.41narniabrlcad, should i send you copies of the parts?
01:10.55narniajano, since 26 nov 1996 ( date of accident ) i have basically only been able to work approximately 2 years total time.
01:11.38brlcadnarnia: yes, please do
01:12.33brlcadif you can copy me steve's message too, that'd be useful
01:12.43brlcadbut only if you care to
01:14.07narniabrlcad, i will send you steve's message.
01:14.34narniabrlcad, i bounced steve's msg to you.
01:18.26narniabe back later i need to forage for something to eat.
01:22.24narniabrlcad, i bounced you all msgs that covers the parts.
01:22.53narniabrlcad, sorry i did bounce them in reverse order.
01:23.12brlcadno problem, that'll work ;)
02:23.49cilantrohmm
02:23.52cilantrono
02:23.55cilantrothat's just wrong
02:23.58cilantroi won't go there
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14:27.44polyspinhello?
14:29.02brlcadhello?
14:29.36polyspinI've got a patch for Tom Browder's question from yesterday.
14:29.45polyspinDid you do any work on it?
14:30.15brlcadno, not yet
14:30.24brlcadhow do you have a patch? :)
14:30.40polyspiner.  fix
14:30.54polyspinIt now logs what primitive was involved
14:31.16brlcadahh .. not a fix for the problem of not converging, but of not reporting :)
14:31.53brlcaddebug wouldn't tell?
14:37.10polyspinYou could run gdb, but...  what USER wants to work through that?
14:37.30brlcadi mean shootray debug flags
14:38.24brlcadat least he might be able to wade through the debug and find the convergence failure and backtrace to find which ray caused it
14:39.12polyspinThe debug output would be... voluminous to answer the question.
14:39.23brlcadsure.. but it's something :)
14:39.27polyspinThere's another issue.  If you have a torus and ONE of the calls doesn't solve
14:39.43polyspinThere is NOTHING you can do to get the primitive name definitively
14:40.20polyspinGotta go
19:10.34narniabrlcad, reading 10303 parts is boring. ;-) necessary but boring. ;-)
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21:28.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h:
21:28.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: Fixed a single line where a function prototype return value (void) had lost the
21:28.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: trailing white space. This resulted in a bad prototype:
21:28.48CIA-3BRL-CAD:  voidnmg_s_to_vlist
21:28.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: instead of
21:28.49CIA-3BRL-CAD:  void nmg_s_to_vlist
21:28.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: Fortunately, few places in the code called this routine.
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22:23.05brlcad~translate en de the germans are nice to work with
22:24.58polyspin~translate en de they write interesting code to
22:26.08brlcadit translate's like a 4 year old that's been kicked in the teeth, but it's something ;)
22:41.21polyspinYes, it is only better than nothing
23:07.03janoi can't believe I just deleted three years of emails
23:07.06jano:(
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050311

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050311

00:59.58janoholy crap
01:04.47CIA-3libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
01:04.47CIA-3libIRC: make text utils be IRCTextUtils, and not conflict with client apps
01:04.47CIA-3libIRC: make debug build multi thread happy
02:43.53Twingyhrmph
02:44.05Twingys2 blows chunks
02:44.28Twingystupid crappy synchronous rt crap
02:47.03janoi just got my tax return info today
02:47.09janoholy f-ing crap
02:47.15janoi have to pay so much
02:47.38janoI don't think I've ever written a check this size
02:48.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for X11/Xlib.h .. start of support for X11 availability checks.
02:49.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: build jove .. not use jove
02:55.07brlcadhey
03:28.50*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:28.50*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
03:44.19Twingyheh
04:02.15Twingywell I paid thousands on interest for the house
04:02.22Twingythat's the only reason
04:02.35Twingyplus it's already speant :)
04:02.39Twingyon my hardwood floor
04:03.06TwingyI show you my basement pic?
04:04.31brlcadyep
04:08.40Twingyhttp://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~yweiss/Colorization/index.html
04:33.36janobork bork bork
04:36.54narniaborg borg borg jano will be assimilated.
04:37.55EricWilhelmTwingy, that's awesome!
04:38.46janowow, that is cool
04:38.55janonarnia, you have it backwards
04:38.59janojano will assimilate
04:39.04Twingythat's nice
04:42.09narniajano has been assimilated. borg borg borg
05:08.30Twingyjeeze dude
05:08.40Twingysomone needs attention :)
05:12.41CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/License.rtf: clean up word wrap, and it's a word mark silly
05:14.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: damnits, it's a word mark
05:16.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: add an optional 6th argument for a resources directory -- if given, copy the contents to the resource dir in the package
05:18.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: feed the script that resources dir
05:27.59janodisneyland or world?
06:41.43narniawhy disneyland?
07:55.36narniai hear bagdahd is nice this time of year.
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14:16.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am sh/make_dmg.sh): provide more arguments to the dmg script
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16:09.28narniabrlcad, fyi, i am working on getting libexpress updated and outlining the new part24 source code.
16:34.50brlcadgood to know ;)
16:55.10narniabrlcad, of the 10303 parts i have read so far part 24 is the clearest.
17:17.21CIA-3libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/include/IRCTextUtils.h: renamed text utils to not confilct with client apps ( like that tank game )
17:30.07brlcad24 is the C impl?
17:46.32narniabrlcad, yes, part 24 is the c impl.
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20:34.50narniabrlcad, i will probably have the part 24 outline done late today. would you have time this weekend to look it over?
20:36.21brlcadmy weekend is uncertain just yet
20:36.26brlcadfamily getting married
20:36.39brlcadprobably will, though
20:38.42narniabrlcad, once you reach my age you will no longer attend weddings more funerals.
20:39.24narniabrlcad, sad but true about the only time the extended gets together is at funerals.
20:41.08narniabrlcad, i assume you mean that someone in your family is getting married.
20:41.37brlcadyes
20:41.55narniabrlcad, i will send it to your standard e-mail address when i am finished.
20:42.03brlcadI don't see not attending weddings anytime soon.. I've got a rather large family with ages that span the gamut
20:42.21brlcadsomeones always having kids, getting married, and passing on
20:43.40narniabrlcad, none of my nephews or nieces have any children. looks like my father's side of the family will die out with the nephews and nieces.
21:27.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: pull back the requirement of libtool to 1.4.2 for the default irix freeware and for solaris
21:40.54*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:46.58brlcadpolyspin: http://sourceforge.net/top/mostactive.php?type=week
21:47.11brlcadit's been frozen like that since the 15th, but didn't know if you'd seen that
23:16.18polyspinWay cool!
23:16.32polyspinq
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050312

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050312

01:16.54*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011643033pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
03:42.27*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-65-71-168-93.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
03:43.22*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-65-71-168-93.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
05:32.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-shell.rect.1: Since this man page was pretty hard to read, I re-formatted it.
06:35.47Twingyo.O
06:36.27brlcad0.o
06:36.54Twingyit is now time to test an optimization
07:09.07narnia^_^
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17:23.21tycheCan anyone give me a clue as to how to start BRL-CAD.  Yes, it's installed (Linux on Intel)
17:23.39brlcadtyche: hello :)
17:23.56brlcadtyche: I'd suggest reading the tutorial series documentation
17:24.09brlcadwhat's your interest?
17:25.21tycheOK, That's one thing that I didn't find, either in the downloaded package or on the website(s).  I am a CAD operator (with 15 years experience) and would like something better than spending $1500 for AutoCAD.
17:25.59tycheSo, where do I find the tutorial documentation?
17:26.47brlcadhttp://brlcad.org
17:27.19brlcadthe overview is a quick intro
17:27.43brlcadvolume II is a very detailed tutorial on one of the primary gui-based modelers (mged)
17:28.16brlcadvolume III gets into more advanced topics
17:28.58tycheI read it.  It gave no indication as to how to start the program.  I'll try Volume II, then.  A fast overview of volume II seemed to imply that the program was already started.  I'll look again.  Thanks :-)
17:29.14brlcadI must admit, though, that if you are interested in CADD (drafting) as opposed to CAD (design) that there are probably better tools, qcad comes to mind
17:29.35brlcadbrlcad isn't a single program .. it's a suite of tools
17:29.49brlcadthere are over 400 specific tools that do various things
17:30.14brlcadvolume II focuses on 1 of them .. (albeit one of the largest/complex of them) the modeler mged
17:30.45brlcadthe quick n' easy start is to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path and then type "mged"
17:31.01tycheMy primary interest is in 3D.  The last few years I was using AutoCAD to do solid modeling of everything from Precast Concrete products to trucks, lift equipment, and even the boss's back yard and LARGE pond he developed.
17:31.08brlcadexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
17:31.15brlcadahh, excellent then ;)
17:33.59tycheThanks.  BRB - my groceries have arrived (isn't it nice to be decadent?) <BG>
17:34.43brlcadbrl-cad is geared towards quite a different construction methodology than autocad and with a much less mature user interface, but most all of the same features are there in terms of design capabilities
17:41.31brlcadwhat's up?
17:42.12janoi want to go surfing :|
17:42.42janobut i can't go in the sun because of these stupid antibiotics :(
17:45.13tycheDear jano :-)     How EVER did you lift ALL FIVE FEET of Unix manuals to beat poor brlcad with?  (yes, I've run a Unix machine a number of years ago)
17:46.37tychebrlcad > Different doesn't bother me.  If it did, I wouldn't be out of Windows and running Ubuntu Linux (a modified Debian distro)
17:46.54brlcadtyche: in that light, most of brl-cad is designed in the unix philosophy of many small tools that perform some specific task well
17:48.08tycheWorse, I learned AutoCAD on my own in 2 weeks, and was turning out drawings that were better than the college trained person I was replacing.  I am also familiar with GIMP and other programs, and the philosophy of Unix/Linux programming.
17:50.39tycheAs for the groceries:  I live in the Phoenix-Metro area (now), and Albertsons is nice enough to deliver to this second floor appartment for this poor 60 year old draftsman.
17:53.47tycheOK, NOW I'm getting an error code that at least I can understand.  It appears that I need the libtcl libraries, so I'll have to go find them and get them installed.
17:54.17narniabrlcad, hello. concerning the nist scl3-2 source. since iso-10303-26 has been cancelled i am removing any references to part26 from the source code.
17:54.46narniatyche, synaptic should find libtcl libs.
17:55.22narniaconcerning groceries, that is what adult children are for. ;-)
17:55.48brlcadtyche: brl-cad ships tcl/tk with it .. you shouldn't have to get anything
17:55.57brlcadwhat version and how did you install it?
17:56.11narniabrlcad, i forgot that. i am bad. ;-)
17:56.24brlcadheh
17:57.08brlcadsounds like it was maybe relocated
17:57.42narniabrlcad, the bridal veil has been relocated? interesting.
17:58.02brlcadfrom your hands to my belly
17:58.17narniabrlcad, roflol
17:58.23tycheMy adult children are 2300 miles away.  I downloaded brlcad from SourceForge.  The instructions to install assumed (and I use the term advisedly, realizing the breakdown of the word) that I was installing from source.  The downloaded file was NOT a source file, but the Linux versions.
17:58.49brlcadtyche: and where is brl-cad installed at?
17:59.03tycheWILL you quit playing with your veil?  Do you know where that veil has been? :-)
17:59.09narniatyche, i have two adult children that moved back in with good olde dad? i would more than happy to loan you one. ;-)
17:59.44brlcadit's probably either expecting to be in /usr/brlcad or /usr/brlcad7.0/ia32 depending on which version
18:00.32brlcadif it was an error about tcl/tk initializing.. then you probably have it relocated somewhere else
18:00.36tychebrlcad is in /usr/brlcad/cad/.  As to adult children, we're still supporting them.  WE moved away from THEM (my wife's job promoted and transfered her) for which we are extremely grateful.
18:00.45brlcadahh, that'd be why
18:00.46narniatyche, i will even pay the shipping and handle. ;-)
18:01.16narniabrlcad, have i got a deal for you. ;-)
18:01.32tycheTher error reads:  error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.4.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory.  And I don't accept unordered products <BG>
18:01.52tycheWhat?  You want to sell me waterfront property in Arizona?
18:01.54brlcaddoes it involve small islands or beach-front property in alabama?
18:02.02brlcadheh
18:02.29tycheOf course, with our latest flooding, that isn't as far fetched as it would appear.
18:02.47brlcadtyche: yes.. relocation errors.. try: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/brlcad/cad/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
18:02.59brlcadand then: export BRLCAD_ROOT=/usr/brlcad/cad
18:03.09tycheHow about property in Florida, guarenteed waterfront property - on top?
18:03.27narniabrlcad, you, yes you, can now have your very own 'house guest'. the 'house guest' is housebroken, but may require additional incentives to find outside activities. ;-)
18:04.32brlcadbut does that house guest take care of my tomato slicing and steel pipes cutting needs too?
18:04.44narniatyche, had that in spring and summer 1996. i wsa surrounded by water. 240 acres of farmland under water. i was an island.
18:05.11narniabrlcad, depends on which model you choose. ;-)
18:05.31tyche"No man is an island, entire to himself. . ."
18:05.49tycheOr woman, either (must be politically correct)
18:06.03tycheBTW, still the same error code.
18:06.38narniatyche, that is odd that should have fixed it.
18:07.41brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad/cad/lib/libtcl*
18:08.11tycheTried it again.  Discovered a typing error.  Stand-By
18:09.26tycheWHEE!  That went through about 10 inches of listing!  They're there.  I just can't seem to reach them.
18:09.30brlcadthe relocation may not work at all to be honest.. at least mged might not work without setting a slew of tcl/tk run-time errors
18:10.04brlcadtcl/tk does not like to be relocated at all
18:10.17tychenarnia:  you may be seated.  OOPS!  Sorry.  At one time I was training to be a minister.
18:10.21narniathis is true
18:10.22brlcadthere are like 6 environment variables that they use
18:10.40tycheIs there a configuration file that holds the env variables?
18:11.05brlcadno, it's all very low level initialization
18:11.24brlcadit can be fixed.. but it's usually just as easy to install it without relocating
18:11.45brlcadif you don't mind building, the steps are rather simple to get and install the latest
18:11.50brlcadfrom source
18:12.51tycheIt would have been nice if they had simply handed me the source.  So, what's the steps (BE ADVISED:  I may have to step out for a couple of minutes to take the used kitty-litter out to the dumpster.  This won't happen for at least 5 minutes)
18:14.06brlcadno problem
18:14.31brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
18:14.36brlcad[no password]
18:14.56brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
18:14.57tychesynaptic has never heard of brlcad.  Go figure!  I can't understand that such an esoteric program would not be listed.  :-)
18:15.35brlcadtyche: brl-cad's only been open source since jan ;)
18:16.47tycheOK, brlcad, I have a minor glitch.  I may not have CVS on system.
18:17.24tycheI DID say that Ubuntu was modified.  You can spell that S-T-R-I-P-P-E-D
18:18.49brlcadheh, okay
18:18.57brlcadthen..
18:19.33tycheInstalling CVS now.
18:19.46brlcadhttp://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.2.0.tar.gz?download
18:20.24brlcadcvs will get you the very latest sources
18:20.40brlcadthat link for 7.2.0 is only a couple days off
18:21.57narniabrlcad, i thought you were going to a wedding?
18:22.35tychedownloading now.  MAN.  THAT was fast.  I can't believe I got the whole thing.
18:23.23brlcadnarnia: I decided not to go
18:25.56tycheExtracting files to a local directory.  From there, I'll follow the instructions that were listed?
18:26.59tycheBRB:  Used kitty-litter run
18:27.48brlcadtyche: yes, the instructions listed should be good to follow
18:28.27brlcadif you got it from cvs, you'll run ./autogen.sh first and then ./configure .. if not from cvs and from that download, you can just run ./configure
18:28.41*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@68.95.117.229)
18:29.17narniabrlcad, i find weddings depressing. ymmv
18:39.40*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm_ (~ewilhelm@68.95.117.229)
18:42.52brlcadone if by land, two if by irc?
18:46.28tycheMy appologies for the delay.  You wouldn't believe the things I've had to install to try to install BRL-CAD
18:48.52tycheWell, at least now it's saying that it's preparing to build.  Autoconf, Automake and Libtools were all missing.  I wish I could have gotten Fedora Core 3 to install on this machine.
18:58.03tycheWell, now I KNOW I'm loosing my mind.  See, even my computer tells me so:  C++ preprocessor "gcc -E" fails sanity check
19:11.55brlcadthere's a slew of components required to actually run the gnu build system
19:12.12brlcadthat c++ error is a libtool bug
19:12.16brlcadeasy fix is to install g++
19:12.41brlcadyou don't need to install of the the gnu build system components if you didn't download from cvs
19:13.28tycheInstalling now.  Just took me a few minutes to read the config.log and figure out what I needed.
19:13.44brlcadyou downloaded, didn't you?
19:13.53brlcadthat c++ problem is worked around in the latest cvs
19:13.59brlcadat least it should be
19:14.23tycheI just got the G++ compiler.  It wasn't on system.  I'm trying ./configure again.
19:14.39brlcadbut did you download or get cvs?
19:14.59tycheI downloaded from the SourceForge URL you gave me.
19:15.51brlcadahh, then you didn't need to run ./autogen.sh (meaning you didn't need to install m4, perl, autoconf, automake, libtool, db3, etc ;)
19:16.07tycheThis has gotten a lot further that the first time I tried it.
19:16.30brlcadyou're configuring now?
19:18.12tycheYes, and it looks good, for a change.
19:18.41tycheI REALLY do thank you for all your help and encouragement.  (Though, we're not done yet :-)  )
19:18.52brlcadafter configure, you'll run make and then "make install" as root
19:19.00brlcadno problem
19:19.27brlcadwe need to improve the linux installation process..
19:19.37brlcadwarn about relocations
19:19.57brlcador figure ways around it to allow them more easily
19:20.46tycheYep.  In fact, I'm doing the whole thing as root (well, all right, sudo).  Improvements would be nice.  If I've helped point out problems (I'm not too good at solving them <BG>) then that's good
19:22.34tychebrlcad:  Do I take it to understand that you are someone heavily involved in the brl-cad project?  Such as a programmer?
19:23.39brlcadthat would be a fair understanding
19:23.45brlcadI'm one of the project leads
19:24.04brlcadmaintainer and developer
19:24.50narniatyche, brlcad is really the chief cook and bottle washer. ;-)
19:25.03tycheThen you have my profoundest compliments for the way you've answered a newbie's questions and helped out, here.  And from the responses I'm getting off of configure, it would appear that you've tried to answer a great many low-level questions
19:25.16narniatyche, i am a lowly bus boy. ;-)
19:25.44tychenarnia:  don't put down chief cooks and bottle washers.  They're like good secretaries.  They are the ones that actually run things.
19:27.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: consider providing installation and post configuration support scripts
19:27.11brlcadI'm a coffee gopher ;)
19:27.31tycheHmmmm!  It wanted to see if I was still here:  "checking for sqrt... yes"
19:27.56tycheOh, no.  That's square-root.  I thought it was an abbreviation for squirt
19:28.04brlcadheh
19:28.23narniabrlcad, the end of april there is an emc fest at nist. not sure if i will be able to make. if by chance i do what is your schedule like the end of april?
19:28.35tycheCreating MakeFiles
19:29.04brlcadnarnia: no exact idea that far in advance
19:29.19brlcadtyche: wow.. this must be a rather slow machine?
19:30.24narniabrlcad, my thinking is to get brl-cad folks and the emc folks together to brainstorm the interface between the two.
19:30.30tycheNow doing "make".  It's a Pentium III, 750MHz
19:30.57narniatyche, how much memory is in that box?
19:31.10brlcadtyche: do you have opengl configured?
19:31.59tycheThe only problem is that it has an NVidia GForce 4 graphics card, and most of the Linux installers don't understand to default to SVGA or generic NVidia (GPL'ed) drivers for such
19:32.19tycheI'm maxed at 512Meg RAM
19:32.39narniatyche, understand.
19:33.08tycheAs far as I know, I have OpenGL.  At least, various screensavers that appear to make use of it operate correctly.
19:33.24brlcadthe build system is presently wired on the assumption of opengl .. haven't made that build option auto-configureable yet
19:33.27brlcadthat's good
19:34.25tycheI didn't happen to see any errors (flipping in and out of console) that looked like it couldn't find it.  Make seems to be runnning all right.
19:35.05brlcadif you don't have the opengl developer libraries installed, it'll be a while before you hit an error
19:36.01tycheI may not have the developer libraries installed.  If not, I presume that I can just pick up with "make" again after installing them?
19:36.08brlcadyeah
19:36.43tycheNo problem, then.  Just a little more time consuming <BG>.  Good thing I have nothing else to do on a Saturday Morning.
19:38.22brlcadi could still walk you through the proper unrelocated installation of the linux binary too :)
19:39.05brlcadthat would definitely have been less work and would have been faster, but then where's the fun in that
19:40.04brlcadif you want to go that route, thought, just let me know ;)
19:40.06tycheI just hit a bunch of parse errors.  I wasn't fast enough to get to the head of the list before it popped off the top of the terminal.  Sorry.  The first one that I could see had to do with tkDecls.h:
19:40.43brlcadtkDecls.h .. that'd be X11 headers
19:41.17tycheYep.  That's something I remember seeing as it flashed by.
19:42.15brlcadwhat's your distribution?
19:43.27tycheUbuntu Linux, it's a modified Debian distribution.  I think it's using XFree86 instead of X11
19:43.39brlcadXFree86 is X11
19:45.17tycheThe development files for X11 show up in Synaptic:  libx11-dev.
19:45.53brlcadthere are two X11 distributions though
19:46.16brlcadxlibs-dev maybe?
19:46.32tycheI do appologize for throwing nothing but problems at you.  Let me check on that.
19:47.07brlcadno problem at all
19:47.23brlcadit might be libx11-dev, i'm not that familiar with ubuntu's packages
19:47.52tycheThis may take a moment.  I found xlibs-dev, and it's added about 10 more dependencies.
19:48.26tycheOK, THAT took.  Now, how do I find the opengl development packages?
19:49.56tycheI see the python-opengl binding programs (already installed) but nothing on plain, old, ordinary opengl
19:51.11brlcadno, nvidia probably already installed it if youre using their drivers
19:52.41tycheI'm not sure whether it's NVidia drivers or the Generic drivers.  I had to force GRUB to accept the generic to even see the screen to finish the installation.  After it was installed, I pulled the drivers off Synaptic, first thing.  I DO get the NVidia splash screen.
19:53.15brlcadyeah, you're probably good to try continuing
19:55.04tycheWell, let me hit "make" again.  "And away-y-y we go. . ."
19:56.12tyche"Make" is making.  And I'm for more coffee and a couple of Motrin.
19:58.56tycheIsn't it difficult to type with your fingers crossed?  Well, maybe not.  I know that I can type as well with my eyes crossed as without.  40 mistakes a minute, with words.  :-)
20:01.23brlcadabg qvssvphyg ng nyy
20:01.31brlcad~rot13 abg qvssvphyg ng nyy
20:01.31ibotnot difficult at all
20:02.27tycheYep, that's about right <LOLROFPMP> .  Oh, BTW, I just caught a "warning":  tkUnixDialog.c:64: warning: passing arg 4 of pointer to function from incompatible pointer type
20:03.35brlcadthat's fine, warnings are okay ;)
20:03.42brlcadespecially tcl/tk warnings
20:03.53brlcadwe don't fix their code more than we have to
20:04.46tycheNot when they're followed by a BUNCH of "undefined references" and "collect2: ld returned 1 exit statusmake[4]: *** [wish] Error 1"
20:05.34tycheI don't think it liked my version of the x11 header files.
20:06.13brlcadhrm
20:06.21brlcadundefined references would be libraries
20:06.40brlcadwhat's one of the undefined references?
20:07.21tycheYep.  That was the last thing installed.  The last one before "make" dropped out was:  /usr/brlcad/src/other/libtk/generic/tkCanvWind.c:903: undefined reference to `XGetImage'
20:07.48brlcadhmm.. yes, that's an x11 library symbol
20:08.02tycheThe first one was:  /usr/brlcad/src/other/libtk/unix/tkUnixFont.c:693: undefined reference to `XLoadQueryFont'
20:08.24brlcadls -la /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11*
20:08.40brlcadoh, it might be configure
20:09.05brlcadyou first ran configure without X11, so it's probably not added /usr/X11R6 to your paths
20:09.20brlcadtry running configure again and then make again
20:09.36tycheWell, THAT can be corrected.  Running configure.
20:10.08brlcadeither that or you really don't have your X11 libs installed (which isn't likely)
20:10.45tycheOh, BTW, what is "fink" (as in: checking for fink in /sw... not found)
20:12.06tyche(I DO hope you're not getting writer's cramp from writing down all the mistakes I'm making <G>)
20:13.13brlcadno no :)
20:13.27brlcadfink is an optional package mangement system on mac os x
20:13.40brlcadif fink is found, configure automatically searches there for libraries and header files too
20:14.17tycheAh, then I can ignore that.  This DEFINITELY isn't a Mac.
20:14.34tycheConfigure seems to be resolving MUCH faster than it did before.
20:14.39brlcadshame ;)
20:14.50brlcadyeah, configure will used cached results where it can
20:15.11tyche3 minutes instead of 16.  That's some savings.
20:15.57brlcad16 is incredible..
20:16.59tycheThat's what the last one was.  BTW, "make" just exited again with errors.  One of them (the first I could reach) was:  Option.c:1619: undefined reference to `XFree'./.libs/libtk.a(tkOption.o)(.text+0x1cb7):/usr/brlcad/src/other/libtk/generic/tk
20:17.39brlcadhrm, same problem
20:17.46tycheIt obviously still doesn't like my library files.
20:18.02brlcadso you have /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11*
20:20.11tycheI have a hunch that either Debian or Ubuntu doesn't use the standard path.  
20:20.32tycheWhat I have (pardon the formatting) is:  -rw-r--r--    1 root     root      1357972 2004-11-17 07:31 /usr/X11R6/lib/libX1 1.alrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           11 2005-03-12 12:47 /usr/X11R6/lib/libX1 1.so -> libX11.so.6lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           13 2005-02-20 16:34 /usr/X11R6/lib/libX1 1.so.6 -> libX11.so.6.2-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       789104 2004-11-17 07:31 /usr/X11R6/lib/libX1 1.so.6.2
20:20.48brlcadthat's good
20:21.08tycheTwo of those are simlinks
20:21.26brlcadtry "make LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11" CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/X11R6/include"
20:25.23tycheOK, that was better.  BUT. . .    make[5]: Entering directory `/usr/brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic'    /bin/sh ../../../../../libtool --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../../include/bin/sh ../../../../../libtool --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../../include   -I/usr/X11R6/includelibtool: compile: cannot determine name of library object from `include'  -I/usr/X11R6/include    libtool: compile: cannot determine n
20:25.36narniabrlcad, link for emc fest at nist. http://www.linuxcnc.org/EMC_news_history/Programmers-Fest2005.html
20:29.33tyche* tyche wonders how narnia managed to pick the lock on the manicals and escape from the dungeon.
20:33.58brlcadtyche: that's good -- make clean
20:34.15tycheAh, I see (said the blind man).  A blind programmer, working in braille.  Talk about a double translation.
20:34.16brlcadthen: ./configure LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11" CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/X11R6/include"
20:34.36tycheOK, brlcad, make clean on it's way.
20:35.01narniatyche, not blind, just have multiple physical challenges that tom helps with.
20:35.45tycheYou're fortunate.  Mine are mental and don't show.  So people can't accept that I have any.
20:36.49tycheAnd now running ./configure (etc.)
20:38.12narniamy were caused by a large rack of electronic equipment trying it's best to flatten my body like a pancake.
20:38.55tycheIf you can't stand the heat, stay out of the NOC <BG>
20:39.25narniabrlcad, speaking of service animals, if by chance i do make it out to maryland the end of april what are your facilities rules on service animals?
20:39.49tycheCreating Makefiles
20:40.27tycheI'll take 2
20:40.59tycheAnd now engaging "make"
20:43.20tycheSorry, wrong number.  Error Code 1, following:  gcc -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -o .libs/pngtest pngtest.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 ./.libs/libpng.so -ldl -lm -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/brlcad/lib    followed by a bunc of undefined references starting with:  ./.libs/libpng.so: undefined reference to `deflate'
20:46.51tycheI just installed the libpng-dev files.  I take it I should "make clean" again, then ./configure and make?
20:48.12brlcadahh, close
20:49.02brlcad./configure LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lpng -lz -lpthread" CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/X11R6/include"
20:49.23narniaclose only counts in horseshoes, grenades, and thermo-nuclear devices.
20:50.02tycheAccepted.  Sorry, I didn't include all the flags on my statement, but would have grabbed them from the previous text.  My bad.
20:50.43tycheNow configuring.
20:51.15tycheI AM glad that it can't find the fink <BG>
20:52.36narniatyche, fink is used with macos-x.
20:52.55tycheOh, yes.  That junoir version of BSD
20:55.12tycheAnd now engaging "make"
20:58.58tycheThis is encouraging.  It hasn't errored out yet.
20:59.09brlcadugh.. hopefully :)
21:02.42brlcadif this doesn't work, we should just install the binary :)
21:03.21tycheI really need to learn programming.  After all, who but a hungry programmer would think to define "words" in bytes, bits, and nibbles?
21:03.43brlcadI can have a binary built and posted by the time it takes your configure to run using some of my better resources ;)
21:03.54tychebrlcad:  we may do that.  But I have hope for this one.
21:04.56tycheI have no doubt that you COULD.  But, considering that this is a 3 year old home-built system, I don't think it's doing too bad.  And think of all the things you're teaching me.
21:05.09brlcad:)
21:06.38tycheOf course, I already knew how to swear.  4 years Air Force and about 20 years driving truck (bus and anything else with wheels).  (And for fun, you should try the SR101 around Phoenix at 6:00 AM.  Can you spell "dodge-um"?)
21:11.53tycheI have seen a bunch of warnings, but "make" is still running.
21:12.31brlcadgood news then :)
21:13.18tycheBTW, that "dodge-um" on the 101 was at 70 MPH.  Every weekday morning.  In a Jeep Wrangler.
21:13.59tycheentering brlcad/src/libn
21:15.37brlcadshould be smooth sailing at least until src/burst
21:16.06tycheYes, but I don't know how far down the list that is.
21:17.27brlcada ways..
21:27.33tycheOK, it just errorred again:  if_ogl.c:66:20: GL/glx.h: No such file or directory
21:28.31tycheLooks like it's glitching on OpenGL or Glade.
21:28.31brlcadthere we go.. mesagl-dev headers :)
21:28.37brlcadyep, opengl
21:29.50tycheMesagl-dev is not showing up in Synaptic
21:30.08tycheI also tried variations on that, and no luck
21:33.24brlcadxlibmesa-gl-dev
21:34.30tycheI didn't even think about mesa.  Shame on me.
21:35.16tychexlibmesa-gl-dev installed.  make clean and "redo from start"
21:35.26brlcadjust try make
21:35.34brlcad"should" keep going
21:36.32tycheGood point.  I forgot that it'll test to see what's done.
21:38.35tycheinto usr/brlcad/src/optical
21:41.11brlcadexcellent
21:41.28janoyour butt is wide.. well mine is too
21:41.30brlcadi think you've hit just about every problem possible
21:41.32janojust watch your mouth
21:41.34janoor I'll sit on you
21:41.53tycheI just saw a "make all", which leads me to believe that we may be in the final stages.
21:42.16brlcadonly problem you haven't hit yet is curses library I think :)
21:42.23brlcadso there may be one more still :)
21:42.45brlcadI'll need to see if I can get access to a fresh ubuntu box to make all of these checks automatic
21:43.09tycheThe note was "make all in conv" followed by: entering  /usr/brlcad/src/conv
21:43.24brlcadyes, it'll say something similar to that in every dir
21:44.17tycheI don't know if it would be worth it.  There should be a new version of Ubuntu out shortly.  Currently it's "Warty Warthog", and the next is "Hoary Hedgehog".
21:44.32brlcadby the way, conv is about directory #10 out of about 40
21:44.42tycheHoary is currently in the final stages.
21:45.12brlcadi generally run gentoo on my own hardware given a choice
21:45.34brlcadRHEL and debian at work from time to time
21:45.54brlcadbsd's tend to be my primary
21:46.35tycheI couldn't get Gentoo to work.  BTW, glitched again.  Entering directory `/usr/brlcad/src/fbserv'  followed by:  ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `XextAddDisplay' and exit
21:47.22brlcadi more libs..
21:47.31brlcadcd src/fbserv
21:47.39brlcadmake LIBS="-lX11 -lXext"
21:48.49tycheOK, then back out and "make" again?
21:50.29tycheIt still didn't like it.  Same result.
21:51.21tycheThis time it was in `/usr/brlcad/src/rt
21:53.42tycheI'm doing the same thing we did to src/fbserv, then I'll try "make" again.
21:57.23tycheIt appears to be running free, again.  Still checking.
21:58.35tycheYup.  It glitched on "burst".  Once more with the "quick fix"
22:00.57tycheOK, the "quick fix" didn't take.  Now it's arguing about:  Sc.o(.text+0x65): In function `ScLoadTP':/usr/brlcad/src/burst/Sc.c:123: undefined reference to `tgetnum'
22:01.14tycheAmong others.
22:01.57brlcadyep, that's the curses problem
22:02.01brlcadso congrats..
22:02.04brlcadyou hit them all
22:02.21brlcadi think this is a first :)
22:02.24tycheSomehow I don't feel properly grateful :-)
22:02.38brlcadlet's see
22:02.42brlcaddo you have ncurses installed?
22:03.12tycheYes, but not the development packages.
22:03.42brlcadyes, ncurses-dev
22:04.44tychelibncurses-dev is the closest I could get.
22:05.13brlcadthat's it
22:06.52tycheIt apparently doesn't like my "cursing" at it.  Still the same result in src/burst
22:11.30tycheIt almost looks like src/burst didn't accept the changes made to src/fbserv:  make LIBS="-lX11 -lXext"
22:11.49brlcadmake LIBS="-lncurses"
22:13.20tycheI get the same references to undefined terms in ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so
22:14.03brlcadhmm.. where are you?
22:14.26tychePWD /usr/brlcad/src/burst
22:14.53brlcadahh, lesse
22:15.42brlcadsame unresolved symbols?
22:17.20tyche../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `XextAddDisplay'../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `XextFindDisplay'../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `XextCreateExtension'../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `XextRemoveDisplay'../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `XMissingExtension'
22:17.28tychePardon the formatting
22:17.50brlcadahh
22:18.00brlcadmake LIBS="-lncurses -lX11 -lXext"
22:18.50tycheOK, that finished successfully
22:19.34tycheBack out to /usr/brlcad/src and "make"?
22:19.42brlcadback out and
22:19.47brlcadsame make as burst
22:20.27brlcadmight still need the others too.. but you'll find out easily enough
22:21.36tycheThat apparently took care of burst.  Unfortunately, bwish just glitched.
22:21.49brlcadargh
22:21.54brlcadmy apologies tyche
22:22.24brlcadi've only had the chance to test ubuntu once before this .. otherwise you wouldn't be experiencing all these problems
22:23.24tycheNo problem.  When I realized it wouldn't be a quick fix (about 4 hours ago), I figured that anything I could show you as happening would only help - - if you wanted my help.
22:23.58tycheI'm not a programmer, but I'm a GREAT stumbling block :-)
22:24.44tycheAnd one can't expect a developer to have ALL the OS's
22:25.21brlcadonly about 10, but not ubuntu :)
22:25.51brlcadhow about we try the binary install just for sake of getting it working? :)
22:27.39tycheSome of my experiences with Ubuntu have led me to believe that I should unbundle the Fedora core iso and see if I could force it to accept the NVidia generic drivers.  Yes, if you want to try the binaries, I'd be happy to try.  I still have the tgz file brlcad-7.0_ia32.tgz
22:28.16tycheI'll have to strip out the /usr/brlcad directory, first, of course.
22:28.31brlcadstrip out?
22:29.13tycheRemove all that we've been working on, and the source code, so it doesn't confuse the binary installation
22:29.47brlcadwhere have you been doing this compile?
22:29.57brlcadin your home directory, yes?
22:30.41tycheIf I did it in my home directory, I wouldn't be able to reach it as a user.  I've been operating as root.
22:30.55tychePWD /usr/brlcad
22:31.12brlcadheh, hmm
22:31.25brlcadthat would probably have caused some interesting side effects..
22:31.31brlcadmv /usr/brlcad /usr/brlcad.backup
22:31.47tycheYep, I heard that tone of voice.  What do you expect from a newbie.
22:32.26tycheDone
22:33.14brlcadwhere's the brlcad-7.0_ia32.tgz?
22:33.34tycheThat IS in my home directory:  /home/craig
22:33.55brlcadcd /home/craig
22:34.10brlcadtar zxvf brlcad-7.0_ia32.tgz
22:34.25brlcadmv usr/brlcad* /usr/.
22:34.47brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad*
22:37.38tycheListing of /usr/brlcad7.0 is ia32 (a directory)
22:37.59brlcadexport PATH=/usr/brlcad7.0/ia32/bin:$PATH
22:38.08brlcadunset BRLCAD_ROOT
22:38.11brlcadmged
22:38.31brlcadactually, mged -n test.g
22:39.35tycheAnd it asks if I want to create a new database (I finally caught up with you)
22:39.43brlcadyes
22:40.18tyche"attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?"
22:40.20brlcaddon't worry .. fast typing is a blessing and a curse :)  RSI sucks
22:40.24brlcadX
22:40.42brlcadshould pop up a big black window
22:41.26tycheWith 2 enclosed in yellow boxes, one saying Viewing, and the other saying Button Menu
22:41.46brlcadyep, great
22:41.50tycheLooks like you did it.
22:41.51brlcadgo ahead and quit
22:41.59brlcadone more test
22:43.01tycheOK, go ahead.
22:43.05brlcadmged test.g
22:43.37brlcadshould get maybe some Xlib extension warnings and two windows should pop up
22:45.06tycheNO Xlib extension warnings.  Two windows:  MGED Graphics and MGED Command
22:45.22tycheThis is looking VERY promising.
22:46.42brlcadexcellent
22:46.57tycheYou even have a good "Getting Started" help file.  This is great.  Thanks.
22:47.15brlcadin the mged command window type "make sphere sph"
22:47.38brlcadthen "rt -F/dev/Xl"
22:48.05CIA-3libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (5 files in 2 dirs): provide a quit handaler message
22:49.11tycheIt ended with "Raytrace Complete"
22:49.40brlcadyou have a window show up?
22:50.10brlcadwith a sphere in it
22:51.10tycheNo.  But that may be my fault.  It looked like the last of that command was an X followed by a "pipe" (|)
22:51.26brlcadahh, you closed the window
22:51.28brlcadi think
22:51.47brlcadtry the rt line again and wait for it
22:51.52tycheWhat was following the X?
22:53.23tycheI saw the window form, and then dropped out.
22:54.33brlcada lowercase "ell" .. l
22:54.46brlcadrt -F/dev/Xl
22:55.11brlcadlike linger (which is what the ell means ;)
22:55.36tycheWe have Sphere!   And a new window named Frame Buffer
22:55.45brlcadalternatively, go to File->Raytrace
22:55.50brlcadexcellent
22:56.37tycheGREAT!
22:56.58brlcadin another terminal type: asc2g /usr/brlcad.backup/db/havoc.asc /home/craig/havoc.g
22:57.15tycheThat works better than POV-Ray.  I wish there were something like this for Windows a few years ago.
22:58.06brlcadit's only very recently that pov-ray has had features that brl-cad has had since the late 80's
22:58.25brlcadpov-ray still does very good on global illumination models, though
22:58.45brlcadit's nowhere near as optimized as brl-cad is for huge models, though
22:58.48brlcador csg
22:58.52tycheI know.  BTW, my system doesn't recognize asc2g
22:59.06brlcadit's that PATH line
22:59.12brlcadyou use bash?
22:59.42brlcadedit your ~/.bash_profile and add "export PATH=/usr/brlcad7.0/ia32/bin:$PATH"
23:01.15brlcadthen you'll be able to run asc2g and company in new terminal windows
23:05.42tycheBRL-CAD blows AutoCAD rendering out of the water.  bash still doesn't recognize asc2g
23:06.51brlcadthe path will only go into effect on new windows
23:07.05brlcadunless you type ". ~/.bash_profile"
23:07.17brlcadto reload the profile
23:10.32brlcadasc2g is one of the file converters.. there's a model of a havoc helicopter in the source distribution that should be nice to see
23:22.15tycheOK, I finally got the file converted.  And I also checked out that I could open mged from a user terminal (rather than root).  The file is loaded, how do I get it into the graphic window?
23:26.22brlcadmged ~/havoc.g
23:27.35brlcadthen run Tools->GeometryBrowser
23:27.44brlcadand double-click the name of the havoc
23:27.52brlcad(once)
23:30.34tycheThis must be a large database.  The scrollbar is taking forever to respond.
23:31.27brlcadit's "small" as var as brl-cad database for a real model (like a tank) get, but it's got some detail to it
23:32.04tycheThat's rather obvious, seeing how far down I had to go to get to the name
23:32.24brlcadhmm?
23:32.37brlcadshouldn't have had to "go down" ..
23:32.50brlcadyou're in the geometry browser or something else?
23:33.21tycheThere are a lot of objects listed in the Geometry Browser.  Near the end is the havoc folder.
23:34.52brlcadokay
23:35.14brlcadthat's suspicious but okay
23:35.24brlcaddoes the havoc show if you select it?
23:36.09tycheTHis is not that fast a system (I'd love to have had one of those SGI computers), but it eventually gets there.  The havoc wireframe is in the graphics window.
23:36.54tycheraytrace may take a while.
23:36.59brlcadunless you're dishing out for one of sgi's supercomputers, they're not the best graphics boxes out there
23:37.42brlcadthe dual g5 macs are pretty much the best price-performance-point right now
23:37.42tycheFor my purposes, this little old 750MHz P3 is good enough.
23:38.49brlcadbrl-cad will run on just about anything only limited by the model complexity
23:39.03brlcadthat havoc is probably the most detailed you'll see outside of military uses
23:39.42brlcadthough one of our modelers did create a complete inside-out model of a walkie talkie that is really impressive
23:39.47brlcadvery detailed
23:40.31brlcadusing the photorealistic global illumination renderer, it looks very much like the real thing
23:41.00tycheNow I'm getting excited.  There's this "Warthog" I wouldn't mind modeling :-)
23:41.41brlcadI'd suggest going through volumes II and III of the tutorials -- that covers most of the basics of modeling
23:43.44tycheI definitely will.  As well as the help files.  I'm a great one for believing in reading the manuals.  When I ran a SUN Spark Workstation, I read all 5 feet of the manuals :-)
23:44.05brlcadegads :)
23:44.28brlcadwell, brl-cad's got about that much documentation, so try to pace yourself? :)
23:44.45brlcad400 tools .. you've seen 2 ;)
23:44.59tycheI will have to remember some of the tricks you taught me, today.  Especially the PATH tricks.  BTW, It took about 2 weeks on the job to read them all.
23:45.16brlcadthe PATH should be a 1-time thing if you put it into your ~/.bash_profile
23:45.33brlcadthat's a shell thing, not a brl-cad thing (man bash, for example)
23:46.19tycheWhen I got done, I was able to do what the college trained UNIX Administrator the company hired couldn't figure out how to do.  I even forced them to respect that I needed su to be able to do backups on the drawing files.
23:47.01brlcadthe documentation on the website is the most accurate and well written
23:47.05tycheI was nasty, and removed the password for root when they wouldn't give it to me.  And they hadn't supplied a script that would do tape backups.
23:47.17brlcadhehe
23:47.26tycheI've already downloaded the pdf's from the website.
23:47.44tycheNow, I've got some reading to do besides Science Fiction
23:48.08tycheThanks again for your help.
23:49.06brlcadand off into the sunset he rode
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050313

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050313

00:38.19CIA-3libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
00:38.19CIA-3libIRC: add method to do a nick change
00:38.19CIA-3libIRC: fix up release builds
00:44.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): quell the Xlib extension warning on XInputExtension by checking for it and not making a call to XListInputDevices if it's not available.
01:21.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: support the busted term.h header on solaris. it requires curses.h, so check for an include it before the header check.
02:56.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/into.c: quell warning, main needs to return an int
03:58.05*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-64-216-106-135.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
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06:54.59CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: HAVE_ defines need to be undefined when false, not set to zero -- HAVE_SYS_ERRLIST_DECL needed fix'in
07:30.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: s/SOCKET/LIBSOCKET/g
07:31.53CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/Makefile.am: libtcl requires -lsocket if it's available
08:58.32CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: library link reworking, add libnsl check, clean up libsocket check
08:59.00*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
08:59.00*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
08:59.07CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/Makefile.am: add libnsl
09:03.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: zlib link naming consistency
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13:08.37*** join/#brlcad dir21 (~dir21@217.169.31.107)
13:11.22*** join/#brlcad dho (dodell@the-bofh.org)
13:14.38dhoIs it possible to open autocad dwg files with brlcad?
15:24.49EricWilhelmdho, not exactly
15:24.53EricWilhelm(yet)
15:25.18EricWilhelmthere's a dxf converter, but nothing for dwg
15:25.35EricWilhelmwhat kind of files do you have? (surfaces? wireframe? solids?)
15:27.03dhoJust some 2D stuff. I don't know anything about CAD, just taking a look at some stuff my uncle has.
15:27.12dhoI got the things exported to dxf, so that's a first step I guess :)
15:28.04EricWilhelmthere's a dxf-g program
15:28.08EricWilhelmman dxf-g
15:28.38EricWilhelmThe file.dxf file is expected to  be
15:28.38EricWilhelm<PROTECTED>
15:28.38EricWilhelm<PROTECTED>
15:28.38EricWilhelm<PROTECTED>
15:28.38EricWilhelm<PROTECTED>
15:28.39EricWilhelm<PROTECTED>
15:28.47EricWilhelm<PROTECTED>
15:28.49EricWilhelm<PROTECTED>
15:30.33dhoThanks
15:30.37EricWilhelmI would like to have some preliminary dwg support in the uber-converter by about July.
15:30.51dhoAnother thing; I'm having an issue with MGED that when I try to start it, it says `backgrounding, please wait\n dm-ogl: Can't make display lists for font.'
15:31.00dhoAfter that I never see anything
15:31.14EricWilhelmNot sure what it will take to get from there to brlcad, but at least it would give you dwg->dxf on the command-line.
15:32.03EricWilhelmhmm.  that's a question for one of the other guys (who are more involved in brlcad than I am.)
15:32.23dhoOk; I'll stick around. Thanks :)
15:32.36EricWilhelmwhat os are you running
15:34.08dhoFreeBSD
15:41.14EricWilhelmdho, I see (in my logs) that someone else had the same trouble with freebsd before, but haven't found what solved it yet
15:41.26EricWilhelmbrlcad, do you work sundays?
15:44.51EricWilhelmdho, maybe try this:
15:45.22EricWilhelmJan 21 02:56:56 <tetesuro>      Oh, I got the gui up
15:45.23EricWilhelmJan 21 02:57:06 <tetesuro>      mged -n name.g
15:45.23EricWilhelmJan 21 02:57:09 <tetesuro>      attach X
15:45.23EricWilhelmJan 21 02:57:12 <corbanj>       cool...
15:45.23EricWilhelmJan 21 02:57:20 <brlcad>        ahh, the old X interface
15:45.23EricWilhelmJan 21 02:57:27 <tetesuro>      right
15:46.11EricWilhelmdho, I guess you have an opengl problem, but it looks like you should be able to run on a straight X gui.
15:46.28dhoaha -n!
15:47.08dhothanks
15:47.59EricWilhelmyou might still want to hang around and ask brlcad if the ogl issue ever got solved in that case
15:48.34dhoWill do :)
16:04.26brlcadEricWilhelm: depends how you define work -- I work on brl-cad and am here in the # pretty much every day
16:06.02brlcaddho: there was a fix made to test the font display list creation, but there's probably more that needs to be done.  the "fix" being made now is to not make the opengl interface the default (there are several to choose from all pretty much functionally equivalent)
18:25.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: need non-generic installation instructinos
18:27.35CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (INSTALL COPYING): add an rcs revision number for change tracking
18:52.25narniabrlcad, given that i do not have part23 to look at my next question may be mute when we are able to read part 23. how close should part 23 and part 24 be?
18:56.55brlcadwhat do you mean?
18:57.08brlcadhow close are the api hooks?
18:57.41brlcadi suspect relatively similar.. but.. ??
19:19.04narniabrlcad, not have part23 i can only go by the nist scl source.
19:19.30brlcadbut what does part23 matter?
19:19.51narniabrlcad, part23 is the c++ language bindings
19:20.04brlcadi know.. that's why I'm wondering why it matters
19:20.37brlcadwe have the c lang bindings .. only need one binding ;)
19:20.39narniabrlcad, okay, for right now is does not matter.
19:22.36narniabrlcad, perhaps the 10303 parts should be a sub-project of brl-cad. the 10303 parts should be standalone libraries.
19:23.46narniabrlcad, a 'nice to have' would be both part 23 and part 24. i agree for brl-cad part 24 is only needed.
19:56.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
19:56.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: improved/individual library checks across the board for gl, dl, mx, malloc, dl,
19:56.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: nsl, and socket. get rid of the 'bad' AC_SEARCH_LIBS. improve the INSTALL and
19:56.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: COPYING file bug check by comparing the rcs revision numbers.
20:27.16CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): use LIBGL for -lgl instead of SGIGL
20:51.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: Update the ChangeLog with entries since the last release
20:52.15CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: rename INSTALL,COPYING check variables
21:00.41*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (~danfalck@wbar1.sea1-4-5-017-067.sea1.dsl-verizon.net)
21:09.21CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: few missing generated version files
21:20.14CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (cnv/.cvsignore tools/.cvsignore): ignore generated files
21:26.01CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/.cvsignore: new additions to ignore
22:50.21EricWilhelmbrlcad, have you seen the scons build system?
22:52.44brlcadyes I have
22:53.41brlcadit's nice, though lacking a bit of maturity
22:53.47EricWilhelmthought about migrating to it?  The docs at least have some interesting things to say about m4, etc.
22:54.09EricWilhelmI haven't really learned autoconf, and was thinking maybe I wouldn't need to.
22:54.13brlcadyes, I have .. I'm interested, but it's a _lot_ of work no matter how it's cut
22:54.34brlcadit's conceptually very much a step up from the gnu build system
22:54.35EricWilhelmof course, I haven't left my happy little perl development environment, so maybe moot :-)
22:55.12brlcadthe main difference is that the gnu build system is immensely more developed, mature, and familiar to folks than scons
22:55.30brlcadwith all it's warts, it is what everyone mostly uses
22:55.41EricWilhelmI have been looking at setting up a nightly build system for my subversion repository, so scons, Module::Build, and similar stuff keeps coming up on google.
22:56.04brlcadthat being said, I'd drop it in a heartbeat if scons was working on the entire build system with at least as much as we already have completed
22:57.24EricWilhelmscons definitely seems more hackable, which is part of why I'm asking.  I'll put a few more things on my "to read" list.
22:58.02brlcadhmm.. hackable isn't a downside of the gbs .. you can write tests for just about anything
22:58.33brlcadthe pain is if you actually have to write tests for _everything_ .. that's a lot of work and a codebase in itself with spagetti logic that ends up needing to be maintained
22:58.33EricWilhelmhow about 'make live-install' ?
22:58.43brlcadmake live-install?
22:59.26EricWilhelmI'm still working on how it would make sense in a compiled project, but that's my primary methodology in interpreted code.
22:59.59EricWilhelmI suppose it would still have application in brl-cad, blender, etc where you have scripted plugins and add-ons (e.g. tcl or python)
23:00.49EricWilhelmhttp://scratchcomputing.com/developers/live-install.html
23:02.34EricWilhelmbrlcad, partly I'm trying to make drive-by hacking easier.  I suppose in a compiled project, this would essentially mean that you would only have to 'make' the code to have your changes available.
23:02.52brlcadno offense, but that write-up didn't really tell me much :)
23:03.04brlcadit told me what it's not to a little extent
23:03.13EricWilhelm"make && make test && make install" is great and all, but somewhat tedious
23:03.17EricWilhelmyeah.
23:03.56EricWilhelmI need to work on that.  Did you mean the web page or the how_this_works.txt file?
23:05.10brlcadyes :)
23:05.38EricWilhelmok.  sorry, I'll work on that some more before I bring it up again.
23:06.32EricWilhelmlike I said, I'm still not sure what it does for compiled code.  It's a work in progress.
23:06.41brlcadno, I mean.. what's the basic idea?  make a sandbox to install/run in?
23:06.58EricWilhelmno, it's about the opposite of a sandbox.
23:07.36EricWilhelmIt allows you to run bleeding edge code as if you had installed it with 'make install'.
23:08.02EricWilhelmFor interpreted code, that means "straight out of a CVS/SVN checkout."
23:08.48brlcadsounds like gentoo for interpreted code ;)
23:08.56EricWilhelmso, it's a way of getting faster reflection.
23:09.09EricWilhelmyeah, maybe a bit like that.
23:09.45EricWilhelmhmm.  it would be great if it would play nicely with package managers eh?
23:10.07EricWilhelmbut, that's an issue with perl libraries in general I guess (at least from what I've seen on debian)
23:28.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: announce that the backup is being made in the result, equal is probably modified locally
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050314

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050314

00:28.29*** join/#brlcad cad587 (~18d3ffb4@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:14.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: delineate each of the configuration steps with a checking line .. helps locate specific results
02:35.40CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (libtool.m4 Makefile.am):
02:35.40CIA-3BRL-CAD: add a libtool.m4 just in case the compiling user has a libtool installed that's
02:35.40CIA-3BRL-CAD: already converted to LT_INIT or a setup that is otherwise missing the
02:35.40CIA-3BRL-CAD: AC_PROG_LIBTOOL macro. it's not a good idea to put the libtool.m4 into the m4/
02:35.40CIA-3BRL-CAD: directory as that may cause automake variable mismatch bugs (where the libraries
02:35.41CIA-3BRL-CAD: end up missing their extensions) when there's a suitable system libtool.m4
02:35.43CIA-3BRL-CAD: already.
02:37.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
02:37.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: if a secondary autoconf fails with an error saying that AC_PROG_LIBTOOL is
02:37.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: missing, pull the misc/libtool.m4 in as an acinclude.m4 and restart the
02:37.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: configuration. this should allow a successful autogen on systems that have a
02:37.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: libtool that's already moved forward to LT_INIT or otherwise don't have the
02:37.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: AC_PROG_LIBTOOL macro.
02:43.15CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: oops, missing backticks
02:53.54*** join/#brlcad learner (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc)
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04:20.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: have x11/tk mged output a helpful message when DISPLAY is unset
04:28.15CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: needs libmalloc
04:37.58CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/.cvsignore: ignore vdeck
04:46.30CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vas4/.cvsignore: ignore vas4
04:47.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): why ignore the .cvsignore files?
04:49.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: ignore the built binaries
04:50.27CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/.cvsignore: ignore generated files
04:51.31CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/.cvsignore: ignore generated files
04:52.19CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/.cvsignore: ignore generated files
04:54.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/patch/.cvsignore: ignore patch-g and rpatch
04:58.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/off/.cvsignore: ignore g-off and off-g
05:00.20CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/.cvsignore: ignore generated files
05:02.08CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mk/.cvsignore: ignore generated files
05:02.23CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/.cvsignore: ignore generated files
05:03.07CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/.cvsignore: ignore version
05:11.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (13 files in 13 dirs): ignore generated verison files
05:22.50brlcadcd ..
05:23.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
05:23.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: add threading library checks (pthreads) to the forray of proper library checks
05:23.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: -- this will likely need more tweaking and testing for versatility for other
05:23.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: pthread variants; more work is still needed to allow different threading models
05:23.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: too
05:23.10brlcadhmm.. i suppose that won't help me.. :)
05:24.15CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: use LIBTHREAD instead of PTHREAD_LIBS now
05:50.04janowoooo
05:50.12janoi had my first photo shoot today :D
05:50.27janoI think I got about 5 or 6 keapers :)
06:10.11*** join/#brlcad fenfir (~fenfir@adsl-68-253-217-59.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)
06:10.50fenfiri keep gettin errors when i try to compile on os x
06:19.24brlcadfenfir: run ./autogen.sh first
06:19.48brlcadwhat version are you trying to compile?
06:26.25fenfirthe newest one
06:26.35fenfir7.2.0
06:26.41brlcadwhat's the error you got?
06:27.11fenfirgah, i closed the window
06:27.27fenfiri'm rebuilding now, i'll post em if it does it again
06:27.35brlcadit's been tested on os x, it has to be something small
06:28.19fenfira whole bunch of parse errors like "tkStubLib.c:116: error: request for member `hooks' in something not a structure or union"
06:28.19brlcadif you run ./autogen.sh first, that should overcome the problem
06:28.22fenfir<PROTECTED>
06:28.25brlcadahh
06:28.28fenfiri did autogen
06:28.34brlcadit'll fail for you again then
06:28.39brlcadyou're missing the X11 headers
06:28.52brlcadapple doesn't install those by default
06:28.53fenfirkk
06:29.22brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/
06:29.40brlcadit's only available on the apple dev CD, so it's at that url for your convenience
06:30.26fenfirthanks big big
07:21.05brlcadcya
07:24.45narniabrlcad, you are uo late.
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16:12.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
16:12.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: don't just blindly copy the backup files back .. check the revision number and
16:12.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: only when it's less than the backup revision will it copy it back. the
16:12.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: 'default' has no rcs revision, so it'll be zero (and hence less than any
16:12.51CIA-3BRL-CAD: backup).
18:11.05janodoppelbangers
18:11.09jano:D
18:11.11jano:(
18:11.16jano:<
18:11.21jano:[
18:35.06narniaiso documents are really boring and obtuse. whatever happened to just plain english?
18:57.33brlcadcomo puedes decir algo tan feo como ese?!  
19:08.39narniaes realmente f?cil.
19:16.58janoquiero presentarle al senior Molina
19:17.08janoes regnet
19:17.19janoprchi prchi nech sa leje
19:17.28janouszaj moja mila
19:49.11narniaesay for you to say.
19:52.39janorepeat after me
19:52.41janoBORK BORK BORK
20:24.13narniaborg borg borg
20:24.23narniacork cork cork
20:24.34narniagrok grok grok
20:24.41narniazork zork zork
20:54.26narniaxyzzy xyzzy xyzzy
22:07.27*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@68.95.117.11)
22:46.52CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fixes for solaris .. must pass bang to test and fix names in restoration section
22:47.31*** part/#brlcad jano (point@portablehole.net)
23:28.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (21 files): the old tool name 'display' is now renamed to 'showtherm'. the old name was ambiguous and misleading. it also happens to conflict with the ImageMagik tool of the same name.
23:30.54CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: renamed the irprep 'display' tool to 'showtherm'
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050315

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050315

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04:45.58TwingyAn anonymous reader submits "As noted at heise.de Saarland University is showing a prototype of a 3D Raytracing Card at CeBIT2005. The FPGA is clocked at 90 MHz and is 3-5 times faster in raytracing then a Pentium4 CPU with 30 times more MHz. Besides game engines using raytracing there was a scene of a Boeing with 350 million polygons rendered in realtime."
04:46.43brlcadbah, not even a billion polys :)
04:47.50Twingyheh
04:48.22Twingycertainly faster than what I can do
04:48.31Twingyof course
04:48.38Twingythey have like 6 guys working on this full time
04:48.48brlcadwell, of course.. more time and it's hardware
04:48.49Twingyand we have like 1 guy working on this 70% of the time
04:49.09Twingysigh
04:49.33brlcadthey're also trying to make money -- big motivator ;)
04:49.39Twingyyah
04:49.42Twingyhey
04:49.43TwingyI am too
04:49.48brlcadheh
04:50.01brlcad"Twingy, Inc"
04:50.05Twingyheh
04:50.12TwingyI like it
04:50.47brlcad"'Scuse me Sir.. who do I make this check out to?" .. "Why, Twingy Incorporated, of course!"
04:50.55Twingyteehee
04:51.14TwingyI'm calling my basement Fort Shumaker from now on
04:51.22Twingysince I can work at home
04:51.39brlcadthen Twingy takes the check and runs off cackling maniacally into the distance
04:51.58Twingyit's fo mah womenz
04:52.02Twingyaww yea
04:52.06brlcadhaha
04:52.25TwingyI think I wanna try subversion with adrt
04:52.33TwingyI'm not pleased with cvs anymore
04:52.40brlcadyou ever were?
04:52.46Twingygood point
04:53.39Twingyhurmph
04:53.44brlcadthe biggest/only things cvs has going for it is that it's free, it's mature, pretty stable, and well understood
04:53.52Twingynot by me :D
04:54.23Twingyyou see lifegems.com ?
04:54.36brlcadsvn maintains the "understanding" by keeping cvs's interface and is of course also free
04:55.02brlcadas soon as they can prove thier maturity/stability, they'll likely be the next cms "golden standard"
04:55.07Twingysvn is also geared for like major changes
04:55.17Twingylike moving directories, renaming shit, deleting stuff
04:55.28Twingycms?
04:55.35brlcadcontent management system
04:55.45Twingyah, ASA
04:55.49Twingyanother silly acronym
04:56.00brlcadpretty common one :P
04:56.07Twingymeh
04:56.55brlcadsure svn fixes most all of cvs' short comings, but that means jack if they can't prove they're stable
04:57.11brlcadonly takes one obscure bug to destroy a repository
04:57.23brlcadfortunately, they are starting to mature
04:57.46brlcadhear fewer and fewer repository corruption reports on the list
04:58.22brlcadsince 1.0 at least last year
04:59.21brlcadwhen sourceforge finishes their svn support -- that'll be huge for the svn folks
04:59.45brlcadand sure to work out any remaining stability bugs .. 100,000 projects is bound to find any left
05:00.22Twingyjup
05:02.03brlcadplan to convert brl-cad over to it after sf.net finishes implementing it and they get a few months of production testing under their belt
05:02.34Twingyah
05:02.37Twingyneat
05:03.35brlcadno real need beforehand, though .. cvs does work solid if you know how to use it and what not to do
05:05.50Twingyyah, but there's always the things that it doesn't really support
05:05.55Twingylike major project changes
05:06.06Twingyso it's just a bunch of cumbersome scripting and typing
05:06.43brlcadthat's all a matter of how to use it and what not to do imo
05:06.52brlcadyou _can_ do just about anything sourcecode related
05:07.02brlcadyou just might not like how you have to do it or what it implies
05:07.12brlcadsvn cleans that mess up
05:07.58brlcadcvs does make you be less chaotic with your "major changes" and requires more thought upfront -- I do appreciate that regardless
06:16.31EricWilhelmsvk looks pretty cool too
06:19.38brlcadhttp://www.linuxonpower.com/
06:19.50brlcadcould be fun to enter that
06:20.28EricWilhelmbtw, I thought of how you could do a "live install" with compiled code
06:21.23EricWilhelmbasically, you would install wrappers instead of binaries.
06:21.43EricWilhelmprobably python scripts (or I guess they could be wrapper binaries...)
06:22.06EricWilhelmthe wrappers would compare the last checksum from the source and decide if a recompile is needed
06:22.36EricWilhelmHope to have more on that once I understand scons a little better.
06:22.48brlcadthat sounds like what libtool does pre-install
06:23.21brlcadyou create "libtool libraries" .. which are effectively scripts.  same holds for binaries
06:23.47brlcadthey end up being shell scripts that recompile if needed, set up the library paths etc
06:24.13EricWilhelmack! must apt-get install libtool-doc
06:24.50brlcadwhen coupled with automake, which will handle dependency tracking, the scripts are auto-updated for a local checkout update
06:25.57brlcadthe problems are more practical though.. various versions and interdependencies in automake and libtool make them difficult to get functioning properly without being strict on exactly what versions are allowed
06:26.37EricWilhelmdoes this work for binary programs (e.g. mged?)
06:26.53brlcadyes, brl-cad uses libtool
06:27.11brlcadif you compile a cvs checkout, src/mged/mged is actually a shell script
06:27.24brlcadsrc/mged/.libs/mged should be the actual binary
06:28.26brlcadlibtool works with automake to generate makefiles that do that magic for you automatically
06:28.49brlcadthe harder part is the dependency tracking
06:29.16brlcadi have it working for other projects, but for some reason it's getting auto-disabled in brl-cad -- most likely just due to the dependency complexity
06:30.38EricWilhelmwell, yet another idea that's already been done
06:30.48EricWilhelmthere goes that software patent :-)
06:30.54brlcadheh
06:31.04brlcadyou could easily respin that into a better idea
06:31.31brlcadlibtool is nice in theory but not so great in execution/implementation
06:31.38EricWilhelmalthough, I don't see any build actions in src/mged/mged
06:32.03EricWilhelmthe implementation is where scons is probably a little more flexible
06:32.21EricWilhelmshell scripts are so last century
06:32.37brlcadscons gets past many issues (and provides a few new ones of it's own)
06:33.13brlcadthey're the lowest common denominator on old systems
06:33.38brlcadi might not have awk, but I have sh dammit ;)
06:34.10EricWilhelmsh -c 'perl'
06:35.37brlcadthere are many "good" alternatives if you're willing to drop a large portion of very very old systems
06:35.56EricWilhelmI'm reading the libtool docs now.  It doesn't sound like it's really doing the live-install thing.
06:37.06brlcadnot exactly what you'd said.. but it is in that direction I gather -- at least in conjunction with automake and the build system dependency tracking
06:37.15narniashell scripts are not "so last century". shell scripts are extremely useful everyday.
06:38.00EricWilhelmwhat I have in mind is a system that enables you to checkout the latest cvs, work a little magic and then run mged by typing 'mged' from any cwd
06:38.37EricWilhelmthen, work a little magic again and be right back to where you were before (such as running the latest stable version)
06:39.48brlcadhmm.. so some sort of mix between portage and the alternatives system
06:39.54EricWilhelmare you after the tier1?
06:40.06EricWilhelm?alternatives?
06:40.15brlcadtier 1, yes.. i'm not inclined to port someone else's code :)
06:40.53brlcadredhat created an "alternatives" system to deal with the task of package/version selection
06:41.22brlcadsay you install various mta's like sendmail and postfix
06:41.49brlcadyou can select between the two or versions of either one by running a command
06:42.12brlcadsymlinks and config files get updated and you're suddenly running the new/old/different 'alternative'
06:42.46brlcadredhat doesn't use it for everything in the system yet -- just some core configuration items last I noticed
06:42.50brlcadbut the basic idea is there
06:43.53brlcadcourse for them, it's made a little easier as they also define where and how their packages install so it's somewhat easier to make non-conflicting packages that can be swapped on the fly
06:50.02EricWilhelmbrlcad, yes something like the alternatives, but that only covers the stable vs cvs/svn choice
06:50.22EricWilhelmbtw, debian appears to be using alternatives as of sarge
06:51.56EricWilhelmas far as similarities to portage, I guess that's what you meant when you mentioned the sandbox
06:52.40EricWilhelmso, yes it would be like a sandbox, except the point is to be able to run the sandboxed code from outside of the sandbox (e.g. not chrooted)
06:53.38narniai normally use /usr/local for what you are describing.
06:54.06EricWilhelmso does the rest of the world
06:54.34EricWilhelmbut using it usually involves running make && make test && make install before you can actually run the code
06:54.44EricWilhelmI'm talking about something like this:
06:54.55EricWilhelmsvn co http://brlcad.sourceforge.net/svn
06:55.06EricWilhelmcd svn
06:55.10EricWilhelmmake live-install
06:55.21EricWilhelmcd /home/me/stuff/models/
06:55.29EricWilhelmmged a_model.g
06:55.53EricWilhelmnow, say I close mged and mess with the code a little.
06:56.04EricWilhelmsave it, and then... (drum roll)
06:56.09EricWilhelmmged a_model.g
06:56.45narniaand magically mged was recompiled?
06:56.49EricWilhelmright
06:56.59narniaokay
06:57.07EricWilhelmit works for Perl, Python, etc, why not C and C++ ?
06:57.36brlcadhmm.. i edit code all the time that I don't necessariliy want to compile or install/run/use yet ;)
06:57.53EricWilhelmI'm working on the details of making it a smooth workflow with Perl, so we'll see where it goes from there.
06:58.08EricWilhelmbrlcad, that's when you branch it (maybe svk is good for that)
06:58.21narniaperl, python are not compiled like c and c++. they are interpreted languages.
06:58.39EricWilhelmor just run 'alternatives brlcad stable' (whatever)
06:58.51brlcadnot branched work.. just stuff I'm not done with
06:58.54EricWilhelmnarnia, my question was hypothetical
06:59.16brlcadstart editing.. stop go eat lunch.. come back and do a lil modeling.. back to editing, etc
06:59.41EricWilhelmok, but the code is a different version than the code that you want to be running right?
06:59.45brlcadat least that's not a branch in any traditional sense
06:59.55brlcadright
06:59.55narnialike brlcad said while working on source i do not want some program that thinks it is smarter than me. i decide when to compile.
07:00.14EricWilhelmwith svk (as I understand it) you can have a local branch which gets merged back to the trunk before the global checkin
07:00.46EricWilhelmhow often do you run the program that you're working on without compiling?
07:01.17EricWilhelmif you're coding on mged and you want to run mged, wouldn't you compile it about 99% of the time before running it?
07:01.33brlcaddepends on what's being worked on
07:02.15EricWilhelmof course.  Everything depends on something.
07:02.28brlcadnormally if I'm just coding, yes.. I'll edit/compile/edit/compile .. but if I'm doing other tasks like modeling or image conversions too -- i've suddenly "stopped coding"
07:02.35narnialike brlcad said. if i am debugging a program i may alter the source code but not necessarily want to compile it right that minute.
07:02.36EricWilhelmI wouldn't build such a thing without a kill switch.
07:03.06brlcadi could switch back to the installed version too -- but then I often want somewhere just in between
07:03.14EricWilhelmbranch
07:03.19brlcadbranches are a pita to deal with in cvs
07:03.26EricWilhelmdon't use cvs
07:03.28brlcadsvn makes that a lil bit easier
07:03.41brlcadbut it's still a rather large process leap
07:03.53EricWilhelmyou mean cvs->svn ?
07:03.56brlcadfor something that's conceptually just taking a break
07:04.16brlcadsubversion is a cvs replacement
07:04.41EricWilhelmno, the 'process leap' what is "a rather large process leap"
07:04.42EricWilhelm?
07:05.05EricWilhelmbranching rather than stopping?
07:05.18brlcadno, branching is still the large process leap -- from a pure coding perspective I'm not branching
07:05.40brlcadI'm only branching to work around the fact that I don't want my runtime to change
07:05.59EricWilhelmok, yeah you're just running code from a different era than the code that you're editing
07:06.02brlcadthat's trading one minor inconvenience with another
07:06.41EricWilhelmwhich inconvenience is bigger?  make install or 'checkpoint ...'
07:07.23EricWilhelmI mean, it sounds like you would use a live-install system if you could freeze it at '2 minutes ago' or something.
07:07.35brlcadnow something like what apple's gotten worked out where I can be running some app and on the fly swap in new libraries into the binary without recompiling -- that's pretty damn cool
07:07.50EricWilhelmthat's reflectionn
07:07.54EricWilhelms/nn/n
07:08.28brlcadthat's dynamic loadable libraries and an interruptible run-time with dynamic lookup
07:09.30brlcadactually i'd say checkpointing would be more inconvenient because that ends up being tracked by my revision control system
07:10.19EricWilhelmahh! the 'tunes project'
07:10.20brlcadends up polluting the revision control history with editing behavior instead of logical code changes
07:11.02EricWilhelmbut if you could use svk to make local checkpoints, you could commit to the cvs/svn whenever it made sense
07:11.35brlcadthe objective c runtime is very similar to java's reflection api, though there are a few core differences
07:11.35EricWilhelmreflective:  http://tunes.org/
07:13.51brlcadintrospection maybe
07:13.57brlcaddynamic discovery another
07:14.37EricWilhelmbut the ultimate reflection is exactly analogous to a mirror
07:14.50EricWilhelmyou move (change code) and the mirror shows you the change
07:15.35brlcadI generally cannot see what's inside things when looking at a mirror reflection of something
07:15.37EricWilhelmthere's also a project doing something with a super-cool X-windows replacement in that site somewhere
07:15.57EricWilhelm(in case you ever wanted to have two mouse cursors)
07:15.58brlcadthe reflection pattern generally is more than self-interface visibility
07:16.35brlcadit's self-implementation visibility
07:16.48EricWilhelmso your mirror needs some endoscopes and such?
07:17.19brlcadlike if I could have some special fantastical mirror that could see into my sould as well as my front
07:18.00brlcada reflection is generally only one-view .. i can't see what's behind me without multiple reflections
07:18.23brlcadit's all pedantic differences, but part of why I never liked that particular buzz word
07:18.52EricWilhelmI wasn't aware it was a buzz word (though I guess if they use it in relation to Java, it *must* be.)
07:24.02brlcadnot so much "buzz" probably except in the java context
07:24.34brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_%28computer_science%29
07:58.00EricWilhelmstill can't find that darned dual-cursor (and many more featureful) X server replacement.  I cranked konqueror's history up to a bzillion about a month ago for exactly this reason, but it seems to be no use.
09:46.16*** part/#brlcad TheBOFH (dodell@the-bofh.org)
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21:42.54brlcadheh
21:44.38CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/Makefile.am: libtcl needs libdl for symbols from tclLoadDl.o
22:33.30narniabrlcad, fyi, part21 is going extremely slow. much slower than i originally thought it would.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050316

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050316

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05:21.00brlcadhe's in hiding
05:22.13brlcadso the guy working on the debian package is suggesting some organizational changes at least for that platform
05:22.50brlcadI'm inclined to allow an optional configuration option to specify those alternate paths
05:23.16brlcade.g. to install libs into $prefix/lib/brlcad/ and headers into $prefix/include/brlcad/
05:26.38narniathat would break the past de facto standard though.
05:27.02brlcadthat's why I'm just inclined to make it allowed, not make it default
05:27.27narniaah, understand
05:27.51narniasounds like a good compromise.
05:27.55brlcadit's not unprecedented.. it's what X11 does and they parallel brl-cad complexities in many ways
05:29.39narniatrue, but x11 is going through major pains at the moment. xfree86 is pretty much done with. freedesktop.org is becoming the de facto install.
05:30.02brlcadx11 has taken over xfree86
05:30.37brlcader, x.org to be more specific
05:30.43narniayes.
05:31.09narniathat whole license fiasco.
05:32.08brlcadyeah
05:32.21brlcadthat was a huge blunder on the xfree maintainer's part
05:33.07brlcadthat's the risk of holding strong inflexible positions as a maintainer..
05:34.54narniadavid's ego got in the way.
05:36.04brlcadyep, and pride
05:36.11narniadefinitely.
05:39.48narniabtw, who is jano? i have no idea who he is, but i find i like him.
05:41.07brlcadheh
05:41.54brlcadhe's an old friend
05:42.16brlcadused to be a modeler, but not with brl-cad
05:43.33brlcadI usually end up meeting up with him at/after siggraph every year
05:46.57narniai like his humor.
05:47.31narniahe did however leave me locked in the cage of doom. ;-)
05:47.52brlcadyou're doomed!
05:48.33narniaoh no!
05:49.10brlcadheh, yes he's full of some sort of humor :)
05:49.28brlcadand he usually hangs out here to release stress and fool around ;)
05:49.40narniagood reasons.
05:50.08narniadid you ever see my msg from last night?
05:50.17narniaprivate msg.
05:50.25brlcadyes, I did
05:50.30narniayou were talking with EricWilhelm .
05:50.59brlcadindeed
05:51.00narniai was trying to follow the conversation.
05:54.26narniahang on need to put some medicine gradpa cat;s chin
06:17.19brlcadhttp://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/02/1951204&tid=156&tid=108&tid=6&tid=7
07:19.48CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: duplicate strerror and check for strerror_r
07:25.38CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: potentially requires sys_errlist, so need optional extern declarations.
07:46.53CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_disk.c: potentially need both sys/file.h and fcntl.h so separate them (solaris fix)
08:03.11narniai thought sys_errlist was deprecated in favour of strerror()?
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13:43.17brlcadit is
13:43.35brlcadbut when strerror is not available, it falls back to errlist
13:43.51brlcadand this is such a system that did not have strerror
16:25.24narniaah, understand.
21:28.05narniabrlcad, does brl-cad handle unicode (utf-8)? how well does brl-cad handle unicode (utf-8)? the reason i ask is that part11 and part24 both allow unicode.
22:34.35brlcadI'm actually not sure how well it'll stash/reload utf-8 from the geometry format or internal representations
22:35.47brlcadthe actual converter support is in the domain of the converter's front in, so the only real issue is how utf-8 is handled internal to the .g format
22:36.16brlcadit shouldn't be too hard if it doesn't work quite right as the file format itself simply records a length and is followed by an array of bytes
22:36.28brlcadtranslation to utf-16 should be even possible
22:37.11brlcadlittle chance mged would handle it without modification, though as I'd bet it'll choke on utf-*
23:00.29narniabrlcad, okay thank you.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050317

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050317

01:49.11*** join/#brlcad Pimpinella (~frank@p5481A1A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
03:44.13narniabrlcad, have you every used sourcenav/snavigator for development work?
03:47.00brlcadI have not
03:48.24brlcadclosest would probably be doxygen's call tree displays
04:01.30narniabrlcad, i did not realize that redhat had released it under the gpl. it is now on sourceforge. i had used it in the past when it was still cygnus. pretty nice.
04:02.04narniabrlcad, i have just installed it. makes working through the old nist scl3-2 much easier.
04:03.11narniahttp://sourcenav.sourceforge.net
04:11.19brlcadyeah, I know -- just never used it
04:39.01narniabrlcad, how are you doing? anther late night?
04:54.52brlcadnot too late
04:55.04brlcadtrying to build up some steam for a long weekend of work
04:55.12brlcadotherwise doing alright
04:58.59narniai am plodding along with part11 and part 21. part21 has alot of exceptions. entity tracking and relationships are something else.
05:02.15narnialooking at how to build the symbol table to be more efficient.
05:02.54brlcadis this still part of libexpress or something else you're working with?
05:03.39narniathis is for part21.
05:04.29brlcadno, I mean code-wise
05:04.37narniabasically a completely new part21.
05:04.37brlcador do you mean that you're reading the spec
05:05.35narniabeen reading the spec and coding. entity inheritance in express is nothing like c++.
05:05.54brlcadk
05:06.59narniaexpress editon 2 is taking longer. i do not want to break express edition 1.
05:08.39narniagetting part21 correct requires reading the part21 pdf many many times to full understand what they are attempting to convey.
05:11.43narniathe part21 parser is not static. it is really dynamic. a new entity defined in a step file becomes a new keyword in the data section.
05:18.03narniaso the entity declaration and the entity keyword in the data section need to be validated.
05:19.01narniai can see why some people programmed in lisp, prolog, etc.
05:20.20narniai am tempted to say that part21 may have to be multi-pass parsing.
05:21.49narniai do know that as the size of the step file grows the part21 source code as it stands now gets slower and slower.
05:31.16narniai tried to feed it a 40mbytes step file of a complete yanmar diesel engine. it was painful.
05:33.45narnianot as bad as opencascade but close.
05:35.00narniaopencascade is still the worse case.
05:38.39narniai read a good write up about part21 parsing. i should have saved the link. the author talked about parsing and entity validation in large step files being a problem. the author was suggesting a parallel approach.
05:47.19narniabrlcad, found the links. http://www.c-lab.de/~wolfgang/ecip017.pdf and http://www.c-lab.de/~wolfgang/ecip013.pdf
14:58.27brlcadcool, I'll take a look
14:58.44brlcadsorry, had to jump out early last night
15:17.44narniabrlcad, no probelm.
15:21.08narniabeen using soucenav to look at the new part21 code and the nist scl3-2 source. the problem with the new part21 code appears to be the hash table routines. i am reading a pdf writing by Per-?ke Larson, Dynamic hashing. a similar approach was used in the old nist scl3-2 code. think i will borrow the nist scl3-2 hash code and test it out.
15:28.20narniait is also clear that part21 is going to have to be at least 2 passes.
15:57.50brlcadnarnia: in regards to your unicode comments yesterday, there is a new database I/O layer that is in development that will support unicode
15:58.28brlcadit'll be quite a while before that's ready for use, but it's part of the new modeler system
16:18.57narniabrlcad; that is good to know, thank you
16:21.26brlcadyeah, it'll be pretty interesting.. working out the details of integrating geometry into an actual database and revision managemnet system
16:24.33narniabrlcad, which database? mysql?
16:26.53brlcadthe current plan, which may change mind you, is to have a thin layer that will sit on top of pluggable backends
16:27.17brlcadso one could use the existing .g file format, an sql database, a db2 database, etc
16:27.29narniaah,
16:27.59narniamaybe reusable for part 22.
16:28.45narniaalways nice to be able to recycle/reuse code.
16:29.12brlcadcould write in the hooks for any file format really, but the current plan is to focus on .g, sql, and flat files
16:29.43narniasql and flat files would work for part22.
16:29.48brlcadthat should ensure the api is easy to extend
16:30.20brlcadeven .g could work for part22, I'd just need to do some testing
16:30.51narniai do not know enough about .g to have a clue. ;-)
16:31.11brlcadat the absolute worst, the .g can stash the entire contents of other formats
16:31.26brlcadsort of akin to sql blobs
16:31.34narniaah
16:31.35brlcadat best, it'll all just work :)
16:31.43brlcadwith compact representations
16:32.21brlcadI suspect that unicode will actually work, barring maybe some minor bugs
16:32.41brlcadit was designed to support it, just never needed/tested
16:33.49*** join/#brlcad asdasxca (~oper@83.148.76.210)
16:34.36brlcadhello asdasxca
16:36.17asdasxcaguu
16:36.42brlcadhrm
16:37.19asdasxcabrlcad
16:37.57brlcadyes?
16:38.08asdasxcabg
16:38.08asdasxca?
16:38.58brlcadcan you form a complete sentance? :)
16:40.53brlcadwell, I'm off to the gym
16:40.56narniai wonder if it would be worth exploring a syntax tree for part21? treat express language like perl. almost everything else in 10303 is based in part11. would not solve the problem with the entities and the subtype and supertype.
16:41.11narniabrlcad, say hello to jim. ;-)
16:41.18brlcadnarnia: if asdasxca causes any trouble, here's the hammer
16:41.21*** mode/#brlcad [+o narnia] by brlcad
16:41.31narniaah
16:41.36narniaunderstand
16:42.54narniaasdasxca, are you using brl-cad? do you have any questions about brl-cad?
18:27.20brlcadahh, good no trouble ;)
18:29.20brlcadfyi, lots of folks (including a wide variety of kids) know me through bzflag
18:30.14brlcadthat can bring in a random assortment of personalities from time to time
18:30.24brlcadnot a big deal, just might come up as it has in the past
18:58.19narniaokay
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050318

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050318

02:06.57*** join/#brlcad Pimpi (~frank@p5481A5DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
04:27.13brlcadwonder where that jano fella is too
05:30.30EricWilhelmI thought surely it would open when the time hit 1111111111
05:47.40*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
05:47.40*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
14:16.30CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: fix up the header line to be consistent with the others, s/\t/ /g for the itemized section list, add a paragraph on the difference between using enable and with arguments
16:21.48CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: removed obsolete comment
18:13.11*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
18:13.11*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
18:40.50CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: add support for m4 files too -- m4 files don't seem to have an emacs m4-mode variable that controls indentation, so just make sure the standard indent is set.
19:04.10CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/cache.m4): separate out the configure cache check from configure.ac to it's own m4 file, m4/cache.m4. takes one optional arg for the cache file name. call it BC_CONFIG_CACHE.
19:12.54CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/Makefile.am: add cache.m4 as one of the first brlcad m4 files
20:20.52narniabrlcad, any word on when part23 may arrive?
21:03.00brlcadnot yet -- should be pretty soon
21:13.18narniaokay
21:21.46narniai am coming to the conclusion that when reading large part21 files the problem is with the way entities and their inheritance works in 10303 and not with the hash table/symbol table/any other tables implementation. the x-refs require alot of memory and processing. it is better than opencascade but the 40mbyte yanmar diesel engine still is painful slow.
21:22.24brlcadhave you profiled it?
21:23.36narniabrlcad, still working on it. the preliminary profiles show memory usage going up rather dramatically. processing then gets bogged down in the x-refs.
21:27.09*** join/#brlcad thiemo ([HtyDkjUZ2@helibox.thiemo.net)
21:27.13thiemohi
21:27.23brlcadhowdy
21:27.36thiemoall fine here, thanks
21:28.10thiemojust a problem with -- guess -- brlcad
21:28.18brlcadwhat's up?
21:29.16thiemostarting mged (on FreeBSD running some X.org), all is fine when i start it from a shell (e.g. in an xterm)
21:29.40brlcadthat's good
21:29.47thiemowhen i put it into the menu of my window manager (fvwm), it doesn't start up, seems to say "backgrounding", but then terminates
21:29.59narniathe other area it bogs down is entity instance validation in the data section. part21 requires that each entity instance be validated. the yanmar diesel engine has 695998 individual entity instance.
21:30.30brlcadnarnia: is that a model you can share?  sounds interesting to test it here too
21:30.55narniaeven with 1gbyte of ram that is swapping to disk.
21:31.05narniabrlcad, yes i can share it.
21:31.14brlcadthiemo: hrm.. it does detach and kick to the background on startup
21:31.29narniai will put it on my web server and you can pull it from there.
21:31.33thiemoyup, seen that in the source... i cannot imagine what's going wrong there
21:31.48thiemoalso did some ktrace (syscall tracing that is), but found no errors
21:32.01brlcadthiemo: perhaps fvwm is killing it because the parent died?
21:32.09thiemohm.
21:32.25thiemolet's see... :)
21:32.25brlcadnot something i've heard of, but i dont' think anyone's tried that yet
21:33.36thiemoclassic_mged (starting with -c) should lead to no backgrounding, shouldn't it?
21:34.00brlcadright
21:34.08brlcadas should -n
21:34.14thiemo:)
21:34.32thiemoweird, it seems to ignore the options.
21:34.33brlcadif it does, try typing "gui" at the mged command prompt
21:34.37brlcadahh
21:35.21thiemostarting with -c prints "Backgrounding " etcetera
21:35.37thiemowhich should not be if i can trust my source code reading.
21:35.54brlcadright
21:36.03brlcadit's not getting passed the argument
21:37.48thiemoYowsa! There is a /usr/local/bin/mged script which finally does "exec /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged"
21:38.07brlcadhuh??
21:38.22brlcadahh
21:38.45brlcadhehe
21:38.56brlcadhrm.. I didn't notice that they did that
21:39.06thiemoneither did i :-}
21:40.02brlcadthere are several "merge" issues of adding a suite of 400 tools and a few dozen libraries ..
21:40.18brlcadespecially what to do about naming collisions
21:41.06thiemowell, they seem to have put anything but that script into /usr/local/brlcad, and set an appropriate environment...
21:41.35brlcadyes, there was talk about using the single root (/usr/local/brlcad)
21:41.42brlcadjust didn't know about the wrapper scripts
21:42.03narniabrlcad, wget http://204.238.34.206/3tnv70-asa.stp the file is 45081315 bytes.
21:42.06brlcadbrl-cad really "prefers" to have a single root
21:42.30brlcadi've been working on massaging the organization and installation assumptions so that is no longer required
21:42.53brlcadthat should help all of the packaging systems
21:43.08narniabrlcad, do you have a cad system that reads part21 files?
21:43.21thiemoindeed
21:43.23brlcadnarnia: does pro/e and unigraphics count?
21:43.35narniabrlcad, that is cheating. ;-)
21:44.06brlcad:-)
21:45.27narniabrlcad, would you do me a favor? e-mail jano and ask him to come back and let me out of the cage of doom. ;-)
21:45.35brlcadthiemo: brl-cad was started around the same time and in a similar style as X11 was to give you an idea of the single-root preference
21:45.50thiemo:)
21:46.17brlcadnarnia: I'll see if I can hunt him down, he'll return eventually regardless though :)
21:48.02narniabrlcad, when you have the time i would really like to know how long pro/e takes to read the yanmar diesel engine.
21:48.57brlcadnarnia: pro/e is not known for it's speed or memory use
21:48.58narniabrlcad, pro/e sells for around $30k usd to start right?
21:49.01brlcadabsolutely horrible actually
21:49.09narniaummm.
21:49.20brlcadi'll give it a try and see how long it takes
21:49.54brlcadyeah, proe and unig both start around 10k and go up depending on options
21:51.40narniabrlcad, would you know what pro/e is written in? c or c++ or other?
21:54.12brlcadholly cow
21:54.17brlcadthey finally released
21:54.20brlcadincrTcl
21:55.41brlcad3.3-RC
22:19.23thiemonow i'm using a seperate wrapper script in the window manager that executes an xterm and within that starts mged -- that's working.
22:19.30thiemonot elegant, but functional :)
22:19.56brlcadI'll mention it to the fbsd folks if you don't, but I suspect the problem will fix itself shortly
22:19.59thiemoi just cannot find the real cause for mged terminating without terminal
22:20.24thiemowell, then i'll leave all that to you...
22:20.45brlcadthat's true.. the real cause is still mysterious ;)
22:20.46thiemoi guess you have more clue if and when that will be really fixed
22:21.12thiemowhatever -- it's working now, so i can start exploring the program itself
22:21.25thiemofrom a user, not debugger point of view :)
22:21.37brlcad:)
22:21.44thiemo(installed it just a few days ago)
22:22.26thiemoso, many thanks!
22:22.52brlcadno problem
22:23.03brlcadfeel free to drop back in if you have any questions
22:23.15brlcador just hang too
22:24.00thiemoi will
22:24.29thiemothough i suppose this channel's timezone is US oriented
22:24.37thiemo(and i'm in europe)
22:25.04thiemo(i've never seen the .pdpc TLD before, though :)
22:25.44brlcadit's a cloak
22:26.10brlcadi.e. my domain/ip is hidden because I'm registered
22:26.35brlcadno worries about the timezone, we overlap enough -- I work with lots of folks around the world ;)
22:26.50thiemoah, i see
22:26.58thiemowell then - good night for now :)
22:27.07brlcadthere's only a few hours of the day that I'm not listening, and even when not -- it's logged and I'll respond ;)
22:27.10brlcadhave a good one
23:25.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/restore.m4):
23:25.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: separate out the tests for a clobbered INSTALL/COPYING file into their own
23:25.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: m4/restore.m4 using a BC_RESTORE_CLOBBERED macro function. it takes two
23:25.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: optional arguments for the files to check and the directory off of the srcdir to
23:25.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: find them in. if the files have a revision id, those take precedence over a
23:25.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: content difference in the backup.
23:25.51CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/Makefile.am: add restore.m4
23:38.44CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: missing var init and output a label of output instead of Makefiles
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050319

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050319

00:37.23*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@130.85.253.237)
00:38.13PrezKennedywomen are the devil!!
01:16.10*** join/#brlcad cad197 (~0c2e3592@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:40.45brlcadheh
01:42.39narniaumm, so someone having a bad day?
02:06.04*** join/#brlcad ancienthart (~joal@CPE-60-231-130-163.qld.bigpond.net.au)
02:06.55*** join/#brlcad frank__ (~frank@p54818F70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
02:07.02*** part/#brlcad ancienthart (~joal@CPE-60-231-130-163.qld.bigpond.net.au)
02:07.43brlcadhello frank__
02:14.31CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: remove the unnecessary possbilities
06:40.02PrezKennedymaybe i should rephrase that
06:40.25PrezKennedyWOMEN ARE THE !@#$ DEVIL!!!!!!
06:48.07narniaahh is someone having a really bad day? missed that morning cup of coffee did you?
10:37.12narniawell i am close to having the nist scl compile and actually work.
10:37.36narniaa few more glitches to iron out then it should be workable.
15:40.30*** join/#brlcad thiemo (~thiemo@kiste.thiemo.net)
15:40.35thiemoMoin
16:17.19brlcadmoin
18:42.43CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/retry.m4):
18:42.43CIA-8BRL-CAD: consolidate the 3 restart macros from configure.ac to 2 in m4/retry.m4:
18:42.43CIA-8BRL-CAD: BC_RETRY_DIRECTORY and BC_RETRY_CONFIGURE. specified retry directories will get
18:42.43CIA-8BRL-CAD: searched on a configure retry. configure will restart once searching the extra
18:42.43CIA-8BRL-CAD: locations if it ends up not finding some required component.
18:42.54CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/Makefile.am: add retry.m4
19:15.02*** join/#brlcad fridge (~fridge@dsl-220-253-79-176.NSW.netspace.net.au)
19:16.28fridgeis it better to compile brlcad from source?
19:19.26fridgeis there a guide to installation? I just unpacked it into a dir and set BRLCAD_ROOT
19:19.46narniafridge, it would depend on the machine you want to install on.
19:20.27narniafridge, operating system, linux distribution.
19:24.46fridgenarnia: ubuntu linux
19:25.35narniafridge, ubuntu is based on debian correct?
19:25.43fridgenarnia: looking at the err msgs, I just realised that it really does like to be installed into /usr/brlcad7.0 -- so I've moved it to where it wants to be
19:25.47fridgenarnia: yes
19:26.34narniafridge, did you download source or binary?
19:26.48fridgeI had downloaded the binary
19:27.08fridgeI had installed it somewhere other to /usr/brlcad7.0/...
19:27.14fridgeI just moved it and mged starts now
19:27.28narniafridge, from sourceforge.net or does ubuntu have a deb package?
19:27.35fridgefrom sourceforge.net
19:27.40narniaah.
19:28.00fridgeis there a debian package?
19:28.02narniasourceforge.net binaries really really want to be in /usr/brlcad7.0/
19:28.18narniafridge, someone is working on one.
19:28.40brlcadyou shouldn't have to set BRLCAD_ROOT
19:28.48narniafridge, brlcad has been working with debian people to create one.
19:29.19fridgebrlcad: now that it is installed in the right place
19:29.38brlcadever really
19:30.03fridgeit has the paths to it's distributed tcl/tk packages hardcoded to /usr/brlcad7.0/lib/....
19:30.03brlcadsetting the root is only necessary if brl-cad is relocated after installation to a new place
19:30.58brlcadthat's part of the problem, mged needs to be able to find the tclscripts directory, which sits off of the root
19:31.35brlcadit's a compilation-time directive that mged allows one to override via the BRLCAD_ROOT env variable, but one does not need to set it if you haven't relocated
19:32.05fridgeIf BRLCAD_ROOT is set, shouldn't it look under $BRLCAD/$arch/lib/tcl8.4
19:32.14fridge$BRLCAD_ROOT/$arch/lib/tcl8.4
19:32.16fridgerather
19:32.22brlcadno
19:32.26brlcadroot is your prefix
19:32.54brlcadso if you compiled with a prefix of /usr/brlcad7.0/whatver  that would have been your BRLCAD_ROOT
19:33.00fridgeOK
19:33.42brlcadbut like i said, you should not need to set it -- setting it to something wrong is more likely the problem
19:33.47brlcadif you unset it, it should work
19:35.02brlcad7.2 sources were posted a couple weeks ago too ;)
19:35.36brlcadahh, you downloaded the 7.0 binaries .. never mind
19:35.52PrezKennedywheeeee
19:42.17fridgeok
19:42.21fridgeI'm on my way
19:42.43fridgeto brlcad town
19:43.09PrezKennedythats an adventure
19:44.02narniaPrezKennedy, hello, feeling better today?
19:45.11PrezKennedyyeah... following through with a threat i made :-)
19:45.37PrezKennedygirl didnt want me to disappear... was a pain in the ass last night... so now im off for the week
19:52.43fridgedxf-g segfaulted :(
20:00.41narniabrlcad, have you had a chance to test out that diesel engine step file?
20:01.09brlcadfridge: eek
20:01.51brlcadnarnia: not yet, I've been working on these build issues all yesterday and today
20:02.01brlcadfridge: is that a dxf you can share?
20:02.11brlcadI'll gladly debug it
20:02.19narniabrlcad, understand. doing the same myself.
20:02.54narniabrlcad, actually c++ issues.
20:04.27fridgebrlcad: http://hovil.customer.netspace.net.au/test.dxf
20:05.28narniaargh my mouse is dying.
20:06.34PrezKennedyget a logitech mx510
20:06.35PrezKennedy:-)
20:26.19fridgeI edited the dxf file
20:26.35fridgeand removed all the cruft
20:26.42fridgeframes/borders etc
20:26.51brlcadheh, okay
20:26.55fridgedxf-g no longer segfaults
20:27.01brlcadit'd still be good if the dang thing didn't segfault
20:27.15brlcaddo you have an original that does crash that you can share
20:27.19brlcador a stacktrace
20:28.16fridgebrlcad: the one in the URL
20:28.29fridgetest.dxf crashes dxf-g
20:28.44brlcadahh, i completely missed that
20:28.45brlcadthanks
20:36.15fridgeit was made in qcad
20:36.28fridgeit is quite possible that qcad makes broken dxf files
20:37.32brlcadmore likely some 2D construct that brl-cad's converter doesn't support and hasn't been well tested
20:45.38narniabrlcad, how good is your c++?
20:46.25brlcadheh
20:46.54narniaa c++ problem i am having http://rafb.net/paste/results/Fs5k5031.html
20:51.53brlcadsomeone's not complaint
20:52.09brlcadtrying to access a protected method
20:53.06brlcadhmm, std::streambuf is in boost
20:53.14brlcadboost changed their interface apparently
20:57.52brlcadactually, never mind, not boost
20:58.52brlcadstill, it's protected, so seekpos() can't be used regardless
21:01.28narniawell at some point in the past it must have worked. (yet another reminder as to why i dislike c++)
21:03.44brlcadwould be no different if someone changed the std C api
21:03.54brlcadthat code was probably written pre-spec
21:04.05brlcador on a buggy implementation
21:05.17fridgehmm
21:05.32fridgehows protected different to private?
21:06.35brlcadprotected is available to classes that have public inheritance of that parent class
21:07.33brlcade.g. class A has foo, class B has bar protected .. only class B can use bar unless class A inherits class B publicly
21:10.16brlcadnarnia: try changing that to pubseekpos()
21:10.42brlcadI believe that will fix it
21:12.29narniabrlcad, strstream (deprecated) does not have pubseekpos. i am going to have to convert it from strsteam (deprecated) to sstream.
21:13.56narniaor strstream to sstream and streambuf.
21:14.37narniabrlcad, my c++ sucks.
21:14.50narniabrlcad, my c++ skills suck.
21:16.08brlcadc++ can be fun
21:16.25brlcadclasses can be vastly convenient when the app gets complicated ;)
21:16.49brlcadit can also be a huge gun pointing right at your head if you don't know what you're doing
21:16.54narniabrlcad, my i borrow your c++ book? just slide it through the cage.
21:16.55fridgedid the same code compile at some stage?
21:19.37brlcadundoubtedly
21:19.52brlcadbut like I said, probably before the standard was finalized
21:20.58narnia<PROTECTED>
21:20.58narniaBjarne Stroustrup
21:21.16brlcadyep
21:21.39brlcadand when the task is to shoot down dragons, one is more helpful where both will do the job
21:21.41fridgehmm, looks like you'll have to rewrite it to match the current spec then! :)
21:23.32narniafridge, well duh, you think so? ;-)
21:30.32fridgeor find the --no-sooky option :P
21:31.06fridgeahh, good to see BRL has the same learning curve as every other cad product I've used
21:31.59brlcadfridge: looking to remedy that problem :)
21:32.13brlcadfeel free to help make that better :)
21:32.15fridgeno
21:32.23fridgeI'll just learn it
21:32.34fridgeand look down my nose at any newcomers who has similar problems
21:33.08fridgewell, don't know if I'll learn it completely
21:33.49fridgeI want a 3D CAD, but haven't found one I'm happy with yet
21:37.08brlcadyou're going through the tutorials?
21:37.21fridgeyep
21:38.48brlcadthat'll be good -- you get through the first two and you should be able to model an m1a1 ;)
21:41.39fridgehaven't done much boolean construction before
21:41.47fridgehave to think about the building blocks differently
21:42.38brlcadindeed
21:42.46brlcadsome things become incredibly easier
21:42.50brlcadsome become harder
21:43.52fridgewhat is a halfspace?
21:44.53brlcadsomething you should try not to use much :)
21:45.07narniabrlcad, btw, i received a request today. someone asking if i could write a convert so brl-cad could output pov-ray files.
21:45.11brlcadit's a half-plane
21:46.15brlcadnarnia: shouldn't be that hard .. way easier than a step converter :)
21:46.30brlcadpov's geometry is a strict subset of brl-cad's
21:47.03brlcadshould convert 1-1 for all but a few complex types that can be approximated by poly sets
21:53.46brlcadfridge: if that didn't help.. a halfspace is exactly that -- half of the available space.. so if you make just a halfspace, it'll be a planar surface that is solid on one side and extends infinitely
21:55.43fridgeit helps, thanks.
22:09.59fridgehmm
22:10.04fridgethe changelog isn't very informative
22:10.50brlcadNEWS
22:13.23fridgecheers
22:14.04narniabrlcad, when compared to the step converter anything will be a 'piece of cake'. ;-)
22:16.26*** part/#brlcad fridge (~fridge@dsl-220-253-79-176.NSW.netspace.net.au)
22:36.36narniaokay, i am making some headway. now i have a different error.
22:37.09narniaconst TypeDescriptor *td = registry->FindType(newType.str(),0); is the source line where the error is occurring.
22:38.34narniathe new error is :
22:38.38narniaerror: no matching function for call to
22:38.38narnia`Registry::FindType(std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >, int)'
22:38.38narnia../../../src/clstepcore/Registry.h:61: note: candidates are: const TypeDescriptor* Registry::FindType(const char*, int) const
22:39.37brlcadthat's silly
22:40.06narniabrlcad, ?????
22:40.06brlcadfor some reason the compiler won't cast for you -- need an explicit cast
22:40.23brlcadahh, const
22:40.24brlcadthat's why
22:41.20brlcadtry wrapping it in std::string()
22:41.35brlcadthat first FindType argument
22:41.55brlcadotherwise, you'll need to get it non-const
22:42.02narniaah, brb
22:42.41brlcador modify Registry::FindType to accept a const std::string
22:42.51brlcador const char *
22:46.07narniamay need yet another variable. :-(
22:47.24narniastd::string() wrapping newType.str() like so std::string(newType.str()) gives me the same error.
22:49.12narniaerror: no matching function for call to
22:49.12narnia`Registry::FindType(std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >, int)'
22:49.12narnia../../../src/clstepcore/Registry.h:61: note: candidates are: const TypeDescriptor* Registry::FindType(const char*, int) const
22:50.55narniaso either: char *new_str = std::string(newType.str()); and FindType(new_str,0);
22:51.38narniaor Registry::FindType(const char*, char* dum0, char* dum1, int) const
22:51.56narniayes, no, may be so?
22:52.29brlcadoh, it's the other way around
22:52.34brlcadsorry, didn't read that right
22:52.54brlcadnewType.str().c_str()
22:53.59narniaokay brb
22:55.24narniabrlcad, you are "the man". ;-)
22:56.01narniathat works.
22:56.11brlcadyou convert from a std::string (aka std::basic_string) via the c_str(), gives you a const char * to the string
23:00.53narniadid a make clean and make. compiling.
23:16.24narniaargh
23:17.12narniainterviews was built with libstd++.so.5 and i have libstd++.so.6 installed. argh
23:18.33narnia/usr/bin/ld: warning: libstdc++.so.5, needed by /usr/X11R6/lib//libIV.so, may conflict with libstdc++.so.6
23:18.48narniaResolve previous error messages and try again.
23:24.04CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/retry.m4: pass the variables on to configure retries by exporting the variables
23:32.59CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: search /usr/X11R6, obliterate USE_MESA_GL, search for some of the GL headers
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050320

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050320

00:20.27CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): bye bye USE_MESA_GL .. needs some good testing on the ogl interface
00:29.22narniaokay everything compiled and built. libexpress edition 2 still needs work. part21 read still needs work. at least moving in the correct direction.
00:48.25narniawell back to work.
00:50.09brlcadcool
00:55.52CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add BC_SEARCH_DIRECTORY to find locations that should always be searched (e.g., for X11), remove the forced retry hack
00:56.30CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/search.m4: add BC_SEARCH_DIRECTORY to find locations that should always be searched (e.g., for X11)
01:07.34CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/Makefile.am: add search.m4
02:00.57CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: prevent the converter from crashing on input mismatch
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03:24.39narniabrlcad, in the currect c++ standard is 'using namespace std;' required after the '#include s'
03:25.18brlcadno, definitely not
03:25.53brlcadthere is a bunch of functionality that's wrapped up in namespace scopes, though
03:26.01brlcadlike strings, lists, streams, etc
03:26.30brlcadand without the namespace declaration, for example you'd need to declare a string as:
03:26.37brlcadstd::string foo = "blah";
03:26.45brlcadwith it that becomes:
03:26.51brlcadstring foo = "blah";
03:27.39brlcadIn projects I have any domain over, I usually prefer the explicit namespaces (i.e. using std:: where needed) since it makes it clear what's in the standard library and what's not
03:29.38narniaokay, thank you.
03:31.01brlcadbut that does, of course, make for more to type if you're using the standard library a lot
03:31.43brlcadsome just get used to it and always include it just for the sake of having it
03:31.45narniahotkeys ;-)
03:32.18narniased scripts. ;-)
03:32.21brlcadlots of undergrad classes teach that to simplify the explanations, less visual confusion of what a namespace is
03:34.54narniaah, ( as the light bulb goes on ). like perl modules.  
03:37.02narniai.e. LWP::Protocol Locale::Maketext::TPJ13
03:37.53brlcadexactly
04:24.07narniabrlcad, just in case i happen to have some spare sheikels at the end of month; what would be a good c++ book to get?
04:24.46brlcadstroustrup's book is all I've ever needed
04:24.59brlcadit's pretty comprehensive and easy to get through
04:25.36brlcadpresumes a bit of C background, which works out nicely
04:26.05narniabrlcad, i have the 1st edition which is out od date. plus tom, the new puppy, has decorated the pages with tooth marks.
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04:27.10narniacad726, hello, how goes it?
04:28.55narniacad726, knock, knock, anyone home?
04:30.05cad726just browsing by to see what's here...
04:31.14brlcadyou scared him
04:31.17narniaguess seeing someone in the cage of doom scared him.
04:31.40narnia:-)
04:33.19narniahas jano ever been gone this long?
04:33.26brlcadyeah
04:33.37brlcadhe goes 'walkabout'
04:33.43narniaah
04:34.16narniajano is from australia or new zealand?
04:34.27brlcadnope
04:34.46narniajust goes "walkabout"
04:35.07brlcadyep
04:35.57narniawas to australia twice. perth and alice springs. both surrounded by desert. alice springs has more camels than people.
04:37.13narniai missed the 'all expenses paid tour of viet nam'. ;-)
04:38.23narniaargh, tom.!!! he eat the ethernet patch cable to the printer. argh.
04:39.05narnias/eat/ate/
05:00.59brlcadhehe
06:01.50narnialittle bugger.
06:25.54*** join/#brlcad cad789 (~42cd6bc9@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:33.12narniabrlcad, i looking through the original nist scl source there is alot that could be removed. 10303 part26 was cancelled so anything related to part26 should be removed. that simplifies the code. still need part23 documentation to bring the nist scl up to date.
23:38.57*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-208-191-38-79.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050321

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050321

02:07.18*** join/#brlcad Pimpi (~frank@p5481A028.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
04:27.43CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): GL_* is gone, now LIBGL for the library
04:31.47CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: massive library detection reworking, add new tests for GL and X11 libraries -- almost ready to get rid of the X11 hack. get rid of GL_* flag hacks, add /opt/X11R6 to retry search list.
05:09.15CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: remove USE_MESA_GL
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16:03.10narniaargh, tom, the new puppy, ate yet another network cable. :-(
16:20.09brlcadyou keep a lot of cables on the ground
16:20.26brlcadi like them soaring high up in the air so you can strangle little children
16:32.36narniai would run them overhead if i had two good arms. working with one arm overhead is a bit difficult. ;-)
19:00.40brlcadguess what just arrived
19:07.44narniathe iso 10303 parts happy happy joy joy. i do not think your happy enough i will teach you to be happy.
19:10.35brlcadhehe, yep
19:10.39brlcadthe whole damn thing
19:10.43brlcadmy god
19:10.48brlcadwhat a waste of trees
19:11.29brlcadit'll take me a while to figure out a good way to digitize it all
19:11.54brlcadit's over 10,000 pages, loose sheets
19:12.20narniabrlcad, fyi http://www.bitstorm.org/happyjoy/
19:18.26narniawait a minute how do parts 11,22,23,24,203,214 come to 10K pages?
19:32.50narniawhich parts did you order again?
19:34.33brlcadI haven't rummaged through the box just yet
19:35.02brlcadthe wrapping on the loose sheets comes off really easy
19:36.23brlcadhere we go
19:36.24brlcad10303-21 10303-22 10303-23 10303-24 10303-203 10303-210 10303-214
19:36.56narniapart11ed2 269pages part21 82 pages part22 222 pages part24 156 pages part28 366 pages
19:37.20narniaparts 203, 210, & 214 must be huge.
19:37.44brlcadpart 210 is 1436
19:37.49narniaassuming that part 23 is close to part 24 in pages.
19:38.25brlcadeek, i take that back..
19:38.35brlcadthe first binding of part 210 is that many
19:38.42brlcadthere are at least 3 that size
19:46.51narniareminds me of the old saying:: no plane shall fly until the weight of documentation exceeds the weight of the plane. ;-)
20:28.41CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Table.tcl: *- added the following methods: moveRow, printColRange, sortByCol, searchCol and deleteEmptyRows
20:29.29brlcadooh, lookie there
20:34.22CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl:
20:34.22CIA-8BRL-CAD: *- added the following methods: bindRowLabels, cgetRowLabel, configRowLabels,
20:34.22CIA-8BRL-CAD: getRowLabelIndex, getLastRowLabelIndex, setLastRowLabelIndex,
20:34.22CIA-8BRL-CAD: configColLabel_win, getHighlightRow, unhighlightRow, sortByCol, sortByCol_win,
20:34.22CIA-8BRL-CAD: searchCol and flashRow
20:40.12narniabrlcad, what is the 'unofficial rule' concerning c++ namespaces again?
21:00.55*** join/#brlcad jerwin (~jeremy@66-44-57-5.s259.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com)
21:01.59jerwinis it possible to install brlcad in /usr/local?
22:12.07brlcadthere is no unofficial rule, just two basic choices.  whether to use the using namespace std; or not.
22:13.06brlcadpersonally, I choose not as I've seen way too many conflicts/bugs/problems result from getting into the habit of trying to determine whether some symbol is coming from that namespace or from a local scope
22:13.26brlcadso I explicitly apply the namespace where needed.. std::string foo;
22:14.53brlcadfor my own namespaces, it's different -- in that instance it's easier to say that this/some file is part of my own namespace.. libGeometry::blah foo;
23:03.09*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
23:03.09*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
23:43.32brlcadI pulled them out of the box.. 210 and 214 are the largest tree offenders coming in at roughly 3500 and 2500 pages each
23:46.43CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: make the install permissions warning find script work even when the install location is a symlink
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050322

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050322

02:06.08EricWilhelmit needs curtains
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05:48.29*** join/#brlcad kcelboo (~447a0d3a@bz.bzflag.bz)
05:49.36kcelbooI was hoping someone in here could give me some pointers on running brl-cad on windows XP..
05:49.43kcelboomaybe a binary package?
05:49.55kcelbooi'm dumb and don't know how to compile this sort of application.
05:50.39kcelboois anyone awake in here?
05:51.57brlcadyep
05:52.55brlcadthe short short answer is that there is presently not a good binary available for windows yet
05:52.57brlcadthere is a beta out there, and a complete report in progress right now
05:53.12brlcadre-porting, that is
05:53.57narnia;-)
05:55.05kcelbooheh..
05:55.12kcelbooI have that.  Does it not run on Windows?
05:55.22brlcadheh, narnia I have to digitize it first
05:55.37kcelboobecause the SF project page says .. maybe thats for the viewer?
05:55.39brlcadkcelboo: it does, it's been ported by a couple groups
05:55.56kcelboocan you tell me any of those groups names?  I'd like to try it.
05:56.08brlcadthere is a beta available (not on the sf website) that has the core components working
05:56.18brlcadbut that's really only intended for developers
05:57.31kcelbooI haven't tried it yet, but do you know if it runs ok in cygwin?
05:57.34brlcadkcelboo: there's quite a bit of work presently under way to push out a full port as well as a shiny new modeler interface that to date has only been tested on windows
05:57.47kcelboocool.
05:58.26brlcadI've put a little bit into cygwin/mingw support myself, as have a couple others
05:59.17brlcadthe build will get pretty far automatic before you run into autoconf assumptions that will need to be changed
05:59.42brlcadI've just not had time to get back to that yet, though it will happen soon
06:00.00brlcadthere are just a coupld things in front of that on the perverbial to-do list
06:00.19kcelboocool
06:00.32kcelbooI'm looking forward to trying the program.
06:01.09brlcadI'm looking forward to you trying the program too ;)
06:01.23kcelbooheh
06:01.27brlcadbut keep in mind that BRL-CAD is not a program - it's a suite of programs
06:01.29kcelboois there an anouncement mailing list aor anything?
06:01.33brlcadthere is
06:01.50kcelboowell, ok (rememeber, I'm a windows user, we're dumb)
06:01.51brlcadand you can be sure that the windows port announcement will be going there as soon as it's done
06:01.58brlcadbrlcad-news
06:02.12kcelboois that on SF?  or on the brlcad.org?
06:02.27brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292
06:02.31kcelboothanks
06:02.46brlcadnp
06:07.26kcelbooSo I guess I'll go poke around for one of those ports you mentioned.  Thanks.
06:08.05brlcadit should work fine on any platform except windows
06:08.18kcelboothat's encouraging. =P
06:08.19brlcadand windows works -- but you gotta be a dev to play :)
06:08.24kcelboook
06:08.57brlcadonce it gets out of alpha/beta testing, it'll get announced and pushed out
06:09.22kcelboook, I'm on the list.  Thanks!
06:09.25*** part/#brlcad kcelboo (~447a0d3a@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:13.36narniabrlcad, can you think of any reason why a typedef would not be used throughout the code. even in the same source file i am finding both the typedef and the variable being typedefed.
07:16.02narniaexample: case sdaiSELECT and case SELECT_TYPE: occur in the same nist source file sdaiSelect.cc
07:17.11narniain baseType.h: #define SELECT_TYPE    sdaiSELECT
07:17.27narniawhat am i missing?
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14:38.40CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: *- call to bzero requires two arguments
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16:34.04spenglerIm new to BRL-CAD, and was wondering if there is a way to print dimensioned drawings from a model already included with the standard install or if that was something that is being developed, or if it is something that will not be developed for whatever reason.  Thanks
16:40.45brlcadit is something that is not presently developed but would be welcomed
16:41.56*** part/#brlcad spengler (~pdebruic@68.76.222.254)
18:52.05narniabrlcad, did you happen to see my question concerning typedef's before the net split last night?
19:17.14brlcadI can't think of any reason that would matter unless the #define is wrapped in optional #if logic itself
20:30.54narniano #if logic.
20:37.38narniaan interesting #ifdef in the original nist step class library source: #ifdef bpzdofbqlvzbfxck   ;-)
20:46.40*** join/#brlcad Torfbolt (~dk@p213.54.135.75.tisdip.tiscali.de)
20:49.46Torfbolthi, how do i move a whole region in mged, so the primitives also move?
20:52.06Torfboltanyone here?
20:52.43brlcadyep
20:53.31brlcadyou can apply a matrix transformation (translation/move, scale, rotate, etc) to any primitive, region, or combination
20:54.18brlcadselect Edit -> matrix selection    on the menu
20:54.33Torfboltyep, but the primitives dont move
20:54.41brlcadselect any one of the lines that has your region included
20:55.00brlcadyou should then get a second menu
20:55.15brlcadselect your top region
20:55.15Torfboltok
20:55.31brlcadthe entire region should then become illuminated white
20:55.44Torfboltyep
20:55.48brlcadyou may have more than one thing being displayed
20:55.57brlcadif you type "who" .. it'll tell you what's being drawn
20:56.31Torfboltok, when i do an tra 0 0 5 , the region moves
20:56.43brlcadso if you're viewing both the primitives and the regions that combine them, you'll see them "twice"
20:56.44Torfboltbut the primitives stay where they are
20:57.38brlcad"B region_name" will erase and only draw the region
20:58.21Torfboltokay, so I probably should just leave the primitives where they are, just not display them and move the region?
20:58.29brlcadright
20:58.48brlcadyou can actually move the primitives, but that makes for a real pain down the road when  you need to re-edit them
20:59.24Torfboltok, so just using the matrices is better
20:59.29brlcadyou can also globally "push the matrix" down on the primitives to actually move them, but that's not recommended for the same reason
20:59.43brlcadusing matrices is definitely the better way
21:00.00brlcadyou can delete and reapply matrices without doing any math ;)
21:00.14Torfboltit's just i get the origin cluttered with primitives :/
21:01.04brlcadthey're not really there, though, until you add them to a region
21:01.32Torfboltoh btw, can i somehow move primitives into "folders" or should they stay in the db root?
21:01.43brlcadyou should be able to "e" up any combination
21:02.09brlcadif you type "tops" do you see a lot of few objects?
21:02.14brlcadyou should see very few
21:02.45brlcadgroupings of primitives can be peformed via combinations "comb blah u foo u bar ..."
21:03.07brlcadyou can make regions comprised of combinations too
21:03.19brlcadand combinations of regions
21:03.21Torfboltwhat's tops?
21:03.25brlcadyou just shouldn't make regions of regions
21:03.34brlcadtops shows you the top level geometry objects
21:03.40brlcadit's a hierarchy
21:03.43Torfboltok...
21:03.56brlcadlike a file-system tree
21:04.15brlcadyou can view this graphically via the Tools -> Geometry Browser
21:04.16Torfbolti already started with making some reions, can i transform them to combs?
21:04.41brlcadyou can
21:05.03brlcadEdit -> Combination Editor .. Is Region button
21:05.15brlcadthe distinction between a region and a combination is very small
21:05.57Torfboltbut i can make comb's of comb's?
21:06.02brlcadsure
21:06.17brlcada combination is litterally just a generic grouping
21:06.25Torfboltok, and for raytracing i need regions
21:06.35brlcadin fact calling it a "group" (e.g. "g" command) is synonymous
21:06.49brlcadright
21:07.18Torfboltcan combinations have material properties?
21:08.12brlcaddoes a collection of pens have a material property? :)
21:08.24brlcadeach pen does
21:08.31brlcadand the container that contains them may
21:08.39brlcadbut the collection as a whole doesn't
21:09.08brlcadthat's what it means to be a region .. it embodies some physical volume of space
21:09.16Torfboltok.. i just checked, raytracing works also with combinations
21:09.16brlcadhas material properties, etc
21:09.55brlcadyes, it works because rt will generate an automatic region of your objects being rendered if they are not regions
21:10.36Torfboltah cool..
21:10.58brlcadand you can apply shader properties to combinations, it's just not recommended
21:12.05brlcadit becomes problematic when you have combinations that specify shader properties and they are a part of larger combinations that also specify different shader properties
21:12.12brlcadthat can be interpreted in various ways
21:12.26Torfboltcombination matrices support mirroring, do they?
21:12.40brlcadexplain?
21:12.42Torfboltso i can make a mirrored copy of a comb
21:12.54brlcadah, copying/instancing?
21:13.14Torfboltyes, like a left and a right shoe
21:13.42brlcadsee the mirror command ;)
21:14.27Torfbolthmm, does the tutorial also exist as html or wiki?
21:14.41brlcadnot yet
21:14.57brlcadthere's a different tutorial in html form in the distribution
21:15.09brlcadin the doc/html directory, iirc
21:15.24Torfboltdid you get the sources for the pdf tutorials?
21:15.54brlcadyes, I have the original files
21:16.19brlcadthe volumes were actually printed documentation passed out to users at our users meetings initially
21:16.23brlcadas well as to others on request
21:16.30brlcadthe pdf's were posted shortly thereafter
21:16.46brlcadjust haven't gotten back to the originals to convert them and clean them up for inclusion
21:17.00Torfboltprobably not that easy to convert the pdf sources to html...
21:17.01brlcadI'd like to make them a proper docbook document in the repository
21:17.23brlcadno no.. i'd work with the original non-pdf originals
21:17.39brlcadbleh, that came out wrong, but I think you get what I meant :)
21:18.08Torfboltof course... that's why i said "pdf sources"
21:18.35Torfbolt:)
21:18.38brlcadone could, but you'd have to reformat everything and would probably lose the images unless you have a pdf decomposer
21:19.00Torfboltthe things that get compiled to pdf
21:20.21Torfboltwell, i get the impression that brlcad is obviously the right solution to model a rc-tank :)
21:20.31Torfboltjust found "track"
21:20.39brlcadonce we get it in docbook in cvs, it'll be easy to publish up as html, pdf, txt, etc
21:22.34Torfboltis there a way to enable tab completion in the mged shell?
21:22.50brlcad*sigh* i wish
21:23.16brlcadthat would normally be a feature of the shell, which is actually tclsh
21:23.22brlcadwhich does not support completion (yet)
21:23.39brlcadthe revamped editor will, however
21:23.51Torfboltrevamped editor?
21:23.56brlcadlong story ;)
21:24.28Torfboltwhy not use bash instead of tclsh?
21:24.33brlcadthere's two projects under way that will initially compliment and later probably replace mged (read: in like 5 years)
21:25.03brlcadmged is a large tcl/tk application
21:25.12brlcadat least the gui'd version you're using
21:25.48brlcadit's support for automatic command modification of the existing runtime language along with it's performance made it a good choice back in the day
21:26.10brlcadpredates bash's popularity
21:26.20brlcadand is a completely different language
21:26.43Torfboltok, one of the remains of early unix days..
21:26.54brlcadthat's only part of it
21:27.14brlcadtcl/tk is used throughout mged -- things that could not be done in bash
21:27.22brlcads/could/can/
21:27.55brlcadhalf of mged is C, half of it is tcl/tk
21:28.15Torfbolttherefore a new editor, completely in c?
21:28.43brlcadlike, I said -- the new interface is a long story ;)
21:28.49brlcadsupports many scripting interfaces
21:29.03brlcadincluding tcl, sh/bash, perl, python
21:29.42Torfbolt:) the *iwanttosupportanythingnotyetexisting* phenomenon
21:30.24brlcadactually just a generic command interface that can run most of the common shell interfaces
21:30.27brlcadlike a terminal does
21:30.50Torfboltbut sounds good, is there already anything working of it?
21:31.16brlcadyes, but it's not something you'll see for a while regardless
21:32.26brlcadso basically, don't hold your breath .. it'll be ready when it's ready ;)
21:32.48Torfboltok, ill stick to mged for a while then
21:33.01brlcadyeah, mged is definitely the way to go
21:33.10brlcadeven the new interface will support most of what you learn in mged
21:33.19brlcadthere just may be easier ways down the road
21:33.26Torfboltor edit the database in an hex editor :)
21:33.44brlcadBRL-CAD has too many expert modelers to simply replace their interface with no support for them
21:34.00brlcadrun g2asc and edit with a text editor ;)
21:35.51brlcadthe new editing "environment" will also support collaborative editing, database repositories, version tracking, and construction history tracking too
21:37.10Torfboltundo :)
21:37.36brlcadyep
21:58.33*** join/#brlcad mlf29 (~mlf29@mail.levingston.com)
21:59.07brlcadhello mlf29
21:59.12mlf29hi
22:02.44mlf29i am a new user to brlcad and am interested in open source 3D modeling
22:03.08brlcadexcellent ;)
22:03.38brlcadbrl-cad is a great place to start being the only open source solid modeler
22:04.02mlf29I am using the Algor FEA package and it accepts IGES files but it has problems with the ones generated by g-iges
22:05.44brlcadreally?  that's odd
22:06.30brlcadmaybe they only support IGES 6
22:06.56brlcadbrl-cad outputs what should be iges 4.x+ compliant
22:10.00mlf29good thought - I'll call Algor support on this matter and send them the file
22:11.30mlf29I'm also new to using irc
22:12.00brlcadnot a problem
22:14.39mlf29thanks for the "4.x+compliant" thought brlcad; need to go now
22:15.10Torfboltbrlcad, mged always cuts of part of the wireframe image when i zoom in, can i do something against that?
22:16.51*** part/#brlcad mlf29 (~mlf29@mail.levingston.com)
22:43.29Torfboltis there a shell command to apply changes like tra to a primitive?
22:57.18brlcadTorfbolt: yes, turn off the Misc -> Z clipping
22:57.50brlcadTorfbolt: if you are in an edit mode, yes .. type "accept" or "reject"
23:08.16Torfboltthanks :)
23:09.23brlcadno problemo
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05:56.02CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: some systems (e.g. solaris) use /usr/X11 instead of /usr/X11R6, so be sure to go there too
06:14.27CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add checks for sys/sched.h sys/sysmp.h sys/wait.h ulocks.h headers as well as prtcl() and sysmp() functions
06:14.44narniabrlcad, would you happen to have any preliminary write-ups about the database plug-ins?
06:16.27CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: ugh, so much to do in this file.. -- use some of the new header and function checks
06:18.18narniabrlcad, also in your copious amounts of free time ( ;-) ) have you had a chance to test the diesel engine step file with pro/e?
06:18.55narniabrlcad, any thoughts on getting the 10k pages scan into pdfs?
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07:44.54narnia<PROTECTED>
15:53.56CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: changes to suport Jim Hunt's fast memory debugging
15:56.37CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: Changes to support Jim Hunt's fast memory debugging
16:17.03narniabrlcad, on a serious note. i think it may be wise to rethink how to implement express/step file in general. i have a good understanding now of how the nist step class library works and while it does work there are, in my opinion, other ways it can be done better.
16:21.08brlcadthe other comments weren't on a serious note? :)  good to know ;)
16:21.40narniabrlcad, the best analogy i can come up with is perl. the express language is the basis for all other 10303 parts. it appears to me that despite iso stating that the express language is not a programming language there is nothing to prevent us from treating express language as a programming language.
16:22.07brlcadthere are writeups on the database plugins, but they are not electronic -- have to scan them in or something
16:22.33brlcadi'm sometimes old-fashioned in that respect when it comes to architecting.. pen and paper, big whiteboards
16:22.48narniabrlcad, just as perl has modules which extend perl the parts of 10303 extend express.
16:23.28narniabrlcad, i have a large easel with a large paper pad mounted on it. color markers. ;-)
16:24.16narniabrlcad, i than tape the paper up to walls, patio doors, nearly any vertical flat surface.
16:25.24brlcadI find index cards extremely helpful/portable along with a small notebook
16:28.38narniabrlcad, paper placemates also work well for notes and drawings. ;-)
16:35.50narniabrlcad, on a side note: a metal working friend who i recommended brl-cad to asked me about auto-dimensioning in brl-cad. i look briefly and did not find any references to auto-dimensioning. it auto-dimensioning currently supported in brl-cad?
16:38.24narniabrlcad, as the awareness of brl-cad increases the requests for 'features' is also growing. is there an official 'wish list'?
16:41.12narniabrlcad, would you happen to have a list of who is working on what?
17:38.02brlcadnarnia: auto-dimensioning is not presently supported.. would be nice ;)
17:39.44brlcadnarnia: if they are things that you plan on doing, feel free to add them to the TODO in cvs, if they are bigger plans that you intend on doing, there's the sf Task manager.  if they are "wish list" items, they belong in the sf RFE section (request for enhancement).
17:41.26brlcadnarnia: there isn't a list of who's working on what beyond what people have assigned to them on the bugs and feature request trackers and the task manager .. a couple of the devs don't have sf.net accounts yet either
19:29.46CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: *- removed duplicate lines of code (this wouldn't compile on Windows)
19:41.47narniabrlcad, auto-dimensioning, i have to think on this. a couple friends who i have recommended brl-cad to would really like this. two of those friends are also wanting the step support. i really think i have enough on my plate at the moment.
19:47.13narniabrlcad, i recall a past discussion concerning layout nesting. i do not recall what was decided concerning layout nesting.
21:23.01brlcadnarnia: in the new modeler, auto-dimensioning and full constraint system will be included -- it'll take more thought to do it in mged.. how would you forsee the interface to auto-dimensioning being?
21:25.12brlcadnarnia: as for layout nesting from the linux cad mailing list comment, I researched that for a couple days last week.  It'd be really simple to write up a small application or library to do the task in brl-cad for 2d or 3d.  the bigger question is what the real need is for as that'll drive what sort of flexibility is needed
21:26.21brlcadexample, are we solving the knapsack problem where we have to pick how many N objects fit into a M space or is it merely the best/good fit across an unbounded area?
21:27.13narniabrlcad, i have not given auto-dimensioning any addtional thought.
21:27.37brlcadand what is meant by auto-dimensioning?
21:27.58brlcadin a constraint-based system, it's usually a side-effect of fulfilling other constraints
21:28.01narniabrlcad, the context for nesting is sheet metal and woodworking.
21:28.33narniabrlcad, the request i have received are all 2d.
21:29.39narniabrlcad, given a 4x8 sheet how many of item 'a' can be cut from it.
21:29.48brlcadfor a solid modeler that means you have to either have a 2d shape (e.g. sketch primitive in brl-cad) or you have a specific cross-section in mind
21:30.48narniabrlcad, or given items a-f place them on the 4x8 sheet to minimize waste.
21:33.25narniabrlcad, concerning auto-dimensioning the request either refer to autocad or turbo-cad or some other cad program. i have nver used autocad, turbo-cad, or other commercial cad programs.
21:33.57narniabrlcad, i would have to ask them what they mean by 'auto-dimensioning'.
21:36.53narniabrlcad, when i started my gnu-cad-cam project i went around to local job shops and talked with them what they needed. it took alot of talking to understand what they really meant.
21:37.52brlcadI understand, that's why I said there are lots of unanswered questions for what that means ;)
21:38.15narniabrlcad, perhaps this summer it when various 'enhancements' are included and stablized it would be worth having a 'dog and pony' show for the local job shops to get their feedback.
21:38.18brlcadif they want to file up RFE's or interactively work out what they'd like to see, that's fine ;)
21:39.07brlcadI have a todo list out the wazoo already so I'm not exactly in search of something else to do ..
21:39.18brlcadit's a great idea to keep in mind, though, as development continues
21:41.10brlcadit's probably not so apparent in the open source community, but brl-cad does have a long established community
21:41.38brlcadmost of those users and codes we have to interact with, though, are not public media knowledge (with good reason)
21:41.57narniabrlcad, understand.
21:42.10brlcaddoesn't mean we don't have room to expand into -- we do .. huge room and huge potential
21:42.19brlcadespecially in the cadd and cam areas
21:43.43narniabrlcad, i agree with todo list. i have enough at the moment.
21:44.35brlcadbasically, if someone wants to add some new feature that has anything to do with cad/cadd/cam, they're quite welcome to join in ..
21:46.03brlcadbrl-cad gives them a foundation, user community, modeling methodology, user community, docs, and more for free that can usually be easily extended
21:49.46narniabrlcad, i wish more of the people requesting 'features' were programmers. ;-)
21:51.37narniabrlcad, are you still at work? it is 1651 hours on the east coast.
21:58.39narniaargh
21:58.54brlcadyes, still at work
21:59.12brlcadand YES.. I'm really interested in getting more programmers ;)
21:59.34brlcadbut that aspect I won't expect until the prototype for either archer or the new modeler are ready
22:00.41narniabrlcad, that is the second time you have mentioned a 'new modeler'. what 'new modeler'? ;-)
22:01.02narniabrlcad, who or what is 'archer'?
22:02.22brlcadarcher is effective an mged replacement prototype written for a project called ajem
22:02.41narniabrlcad, of the 10 members listed on sourceforge who are developers (programmers)?
22:02.47brlcadajem is a joint collaboration across several military services where brl-cad is one of the backend components
22:03.19narniabrlcad, ajem is not written in java is it?
22:03.21brlcadarcher was written for ajem with a more "up to date" gui
22:03.29brlcadno, it's not
22:03.36brlcadajem is not publicly available either
22:03.38narniabrlcad, thank god. ;-)
22:04.11narniabrlcad, that was a concerning java.
22:04.19brlcadarcher is being released back to us in part because it pertains directly to brl-cad
22:04.37brlcadand in part because it was written by one of mged's primary authors
22:04.40narniabrlcad, ah
22:04.50brlcadBob :)
22:05.03brlcadbob will probably make an appearace in here eventually
22:05.36brlcadyou're trapped ;)
22:05.52narniahehe
22:06.35brlcadevery single person listed on the members page is a seasoned programmer with some area of expertise
22:07.20narniabrlcad, is that spicy or mild seasoning? ;-) (sorry i could not resist. ;-) )
22:08.24narniabrlcad, am i the only 'outsider' ?
22:10.49narniabe back in a bit, news is on.
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23:33.28brlcadnarnia: heh, spicy
23:33.58narniaback
23:34.00brlcadnarnia: no you're not the only outsider ;)
23:34.23narniabrlcad, that is comforting to know.
23:35.02brlcadlee, john, and myself I probably the definitive experts on the package as a whole
23:35.15brlcadbob did most of mged
23:35.27brlcaderik started the new build system
23:35.50brlcadcharles did much of the old command-line mged and some utilities
23:36.02brlcadron did rtwizard
23:36.38brlcadjustin is working on a triangle-based real-time raytracer and global illumination
23:36.42brlcadalso did photon mapping
23:37.02brlcadjee and john have done too much to mention so succintly ;)
23:37.37brlcadthere are others, listed in the authors file
23:38.58brlcadunfortunately, features were not tracked as closely as they are now in terms of who did what, but cvs does tell all
23:41.01narniayou work for Quantum Research International, Inc.?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050324

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02:07.08*** join/#brlcad Pimpinella (~frank@p5481A8FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
02:09.32brlcadmy leading up BRL-CAD's open source activities is completely separate from, although cooperative with, Quantum and ARL activities
02:09.44brlcadjust as an fyi ;)
07:08.00CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: oops, restore killed comment
07:25.44narniafyi, made real progress yesterday (wednesday) and today (thursday). i can compile the partially updated nist step class library and create an ap203 data probe. still problems with express language edition 2. that does not surprise me i expected that. using interviews is okay but it probaqbly should be updated to use gtk.
07:27.10narniagoing back to archer for a moment. what is archer written in? which gui libraries?
07:27.58brlcadTk megawidgets
07:28.10narniaum.
07:28.52narniado you have a linux box handy?
07:29.03brlcadsorta
07:30.17narniai was thinking i could send you the ap203 dataprobe. would you settle for some screenshots?
07:32.43brlcadsure
07:33.02CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make /usr/X11/ a retry directory instead of a search directory since it's where the o32 libraries are kept on irix -- there's a better way to deal with n32 vs. o32 vs. 64 but this'll have to do for now
07:46.32narniabrb going to take screenshots.
08:00.59brlcadI look forward to seeing them when I awake :)
08:08.16narniahttp://204.238.34.206/b_spline_suface_with_knots-info.jpg
08:08.28narniahttp://204.238.34.206/entity-type-list.jpg
08:08.42narniahttp://204.238.34.206/entity-instance-list.jpg
08:09.04narniahttp://204.238.34.206/data-probe.jpg
08:10.13narniathat gives you an idea of the interviews ui. pretty basic and plain but functional. no bells and whistles.
08:10.50brlcadahh, i see (not zZzZ just quite yet)
08:10.53brlcadinteresting
08:11.03brlcadyeah, no frills
08:12.23brlcadbtw, narnia -- in regards to archer and Tk megawidgets.. basically he used a core component of mged that he wrote some time ago that lets you basically embed most all of mged's functionality into other apps
08:12.45brlcadso archer effectively contains an embeded mged controller .. but with a more modern gui
08:13.03brlcadthe gui being written in Tk
08:13.08narniai see.
08:14.00brlcadnot my choice of gui toolkits, but I can deal -- it's like mged but clean
08:14.12brlcadhe knows tk inside out
08:14.26brlcadso it was very quick and easy for him (for another task)
08:15.20narniaif you have no objections than i may look at gtk or perhaps Xaw3d.
08:16.29brlcadgtk would be better, though it's a pretty "meh" api
08:17.07brlcadthe one thing tk does have is the cross platform support and multi-language bindings
08:17.14brlcadgtk's coming along though
08:17.18narniai know Xaw3d better than i know gtk. gtk is at least in theory portable to windows. (i do not do windows. i have no windows boxes) i do know macs and macos-x. AQUA.!!! (hehehehe)
08:17.46brlcadgtk doesn't do aqua yet, but they're close last I heard
08:18.05brlcadhad some "prototypes"
08:18.13brlcadbut still very incomplete
08:18.38brlcadgtk will do x11 on mac, though (which is how we use Tk right now on os x)
08:18.57brlcadlinking against AquaTk is something I want to try on os x too
08:20.01narniai have 2 imacs and 1 emac.
08:20.57brlcadgo for it :)
08:21.10narniai have 7 x86 linux boxes, i old dec alpha box, and a partrige in a pear tree. ;-)
08:21.35brlcadi tried it out about 1.5 years ago when they had it first working
08:21.49brlcadbut it was so incredibly buggy, not functional
08:21.53brlcadaltough pretty
08:23.23narniai have not played with tk in years. could possibly redo the interviews in tk. that would deal with portability issues.
08:23.47brlcadperl/tk? :)
08:24.17brlcadthat would be evil, c/tk would be the way to go :)
08:24.57narniayes c/tk would be the way to go.
08:28.31narniastill refining and cleaning up memory issues.
08:36.39narniafor grins i am attempting to read in the yanmar diesel engine in the ap203 data probe. my guts feel is that it will bomb on a memory fault or trash in the hash table code.
09:20.40narniaummm. i terminated it. it was actually working rather well except memory usage was going through the roof. i think it is the nature of large part21 files. they are just memory hogs. i do not see any way around it.
14:28.01EricWilhelmTk::Zinc makes perl/tk not so evil
14:28.09EricWilhelmopengl canvas, etc.
16:56.39CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c:
16:56.40CIA-8BRL-CAD: Add transparency and dmode parameters to dgo_invent_solid. Add -p option to
16:56.40CIA-8BRL-CAD: dgo_get_autoview_cmd (include psuedo-solids if specified). Add code to handle
16:56.40CIA-8BRL-CAD: paths and file names that include spaces (Windows Only). Add code to open
16:56.40CIA-8BRL-CAD: files/pipes in binary mode (Windows Only)
16:58.31CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/vdraw.c: Add transparency and dmode parameters to dgo_invent_solid
17:03.21CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Add wdb_importFg4Section and wdb_create_cmd. Add new and optional "tops" behavior.
17:04.34narniabrlcad, fyi, i am attempting to read the yanmar diesel engine again. so far it has been running 91:48.08.
17:06.44narniabrlcad, still not sure as to which gui to use. it would make logical sense to use c/tk since both brl-cad and emc use tk.
17:08.10brlcadgo with whatever you're comfortable with :)
17:08.19brlcadhopefully cross-platform ;)
17:09.15CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: Initial check-in of code that imports a fg4 section from a string. This adds a method to the database object.
17:10.28brlcadheh, i told bob about the plans to settle down development for a few days before the end of every month for stability as part of our monthly iteration
17:10.38brlcadso I think he's rushing to get all his changes in now :)
17:14.15CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: Added call to wdb_create_cmd due to change in wdb_init_obj
17:17.33CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: Added call to Tcl_FindExecutable before call to Tcl_CreateInterp to hack around Tcl problem (i.e. getting a null pointer exception when calling Tcl_CreateInterp).
17:21.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: Added the following commands to the display manager Tcl object: drawLabels, getDrawLabelsHook and setDrawLabelsHook
17:26.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: Add code to open files in binary mode (Windows Only)
17:27.17CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: Add code to open files in binary mode (Windows Only)
17:29.03CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: Initialize width and height to zero
17:30.14narniaumm this is an improvement granted not a big improvement but an improvement no the less. ap203 dataprobe is on entity instance number #544486 so roughly a 100,000 to go. has been running 114:09.04. not swapping as bad as it was.
17:30.56CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/utility1.c: If Windows, use remove() and _lseek
17:32.52CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: If Windows, use double-quotes around pathnames in case there are spaces.
17:36.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: If Windows, use double-quotes around pathnames in case there are spaces. Also, if Windows, call Tcl_FindExecutable before calling Tcl_CreateInterp
17:47.16CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: Add the following methods: drawLabels, getDrawLabelsHook and setDrawLabelsHook
17:48.01*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@adsl-66-142-221-139.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net)
17:53.27CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Add the following options: -primitiveLabels, -primitiveLabelsColor and -usePhony. Add code to limit the mouse dx and dy's that are calculated. This affects rotation, translation and scaling via the mouse
17:55.28CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl: Add code to check to see if BRL-CAD's history object is available
17:57.29CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Database.tcl: Minor formatting
18:01.25CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Added the following methods: facetize and importFg4Section. Added help for the following commands: binary, make_bb, move_arb_edge, move_arb_face, rmap, rotate_arb_face and track. Also added minor formatting.
18:33.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Mged.tcl: Add the following methods: facetize, importFg4Section, attachObservers, detachObservers
18:38.14CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Add the following methods: getDrawLabelsHook, setDrawLabelsHook, setDrawLabelsHookAll
18:40.39CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/asc2g.tcl: Use Tcl's "file delete" comand to delete
19:27.56CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Declare wdb_create_cmd
22:10.48CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: Fix typo
23:36.51*** join/#brlcad cad350 (~c1d9a002@bz.bzflag.bz)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050325

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050325

01:41.57narniawell comnplex entity instances are not being handled correctly. that does not surprise me. i do not have a clear idea of how to validate a complex entity instance.
02:07.14*** join/#brlcad Pimpinella (~frank@p5481A784.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
03:34.33narniasome iso standards are about as clear as mud.
05:47.42*** join/#brlcad brlcad (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc)
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05:47.42*** mode/#brlcad [+oo brlcad learner] by irc.freenode.net
10:01.11CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (anim.tcl overlap.tcl): might as well make the other exec rm instances use file delete too for portability
14:33.07narniafor some reason it is not handling 'vertex_point' correctly which causes other parts not to work.
14:52.31*** join/#brlcad starseeker (~starseeke@ip68-106-90-53.hr.hr.cox.net)
14:52.36starseekerAnybody around?
14:56.08brlcadhello starseeker
14:56.11brlcadbeen a while :)
14:57.39starseekerYep :-)
14:57.42starseekerbeen busy
14:58.12starseekergot to updating my system, and I'm trying to reset things so I can make a more "polite" version of the brlcad ebuild
14:58.23starseekerAny idea what librt corresponds to?
14:58.51starseekeror librt.la rather?
15:01.49brlcadwhat do you mean corresponds to?
15:01.58brlcadlibrt is one of brl-cad's core libraries
15:02.02brlcadit's the raytrace library
15:02.28brlcad90% of the brl-cad binaries uses that library in some form .. so it corresponds to just about all of them
15:05.02starseekerI know
15:05.07starseekerI mean, outside of brlcad
15:05.26starseekerit overwrote something else, that most of my gnome libraries are trying to link to
15:05.48starseekerI can't for the life of me figure out what though
15:06.21starseekerI'm almost to the point of the nuclear option, a total system re-emerge (probably not a bad idea anyway, really, but a real time sink)
15:07.19brlcadso you have a system set up that does or does not have a librt already installed?
15:07.51starseekerHad.  brlcad overwrote it.  but I don't think it was a raytracing library, unless google knows nothing about it
15:08.23narniastarseeker, what distribution are you running?
15:08.28starseekerGentoo
15:09.02narniathe old librt library should have been renamed libposix4 long ago.
15:09.32starseekerHmm. Are programs even still using that library?
15:09.47Twingylibrt?
15:09.48narniai thought solaris was the only one that still had the old names.
15:10.21starseekerglibc has librt.so (I think) but doesn't seem to librt.la
15:10.43narniahttp://refspecs.freestandards.org/LSB_1.1.0/gLSB/app-librt.html
15:11.26starseekerYes - librt.so is a file owned by glibc
15:11.42starseekerso is librt.a
15:11.46starseekerbut not librt.la
15:11.49starseekerapparently
15:12.13brlcadlibrt.la is a libtool library
15:12.20brlcadbrl-cad also installs the .a and .so
15:12.42starseekerSo libtool creates the .la file?  how does that work?
15:13.04brlcadyes, libtool makes the .la's
15:13.17narniastarseeker, .la is a text file which is used by libtool to know which libraries are needed.
15:13.40brlcadthe libtool libraries keep track of everything that comprises the library, what libraries it depends on, which ones it linked against, etc
15:13.57brlcadnot strictly necessary to run, as the .so and .a are made from the .la's
15:14.03brlcadbut the .la isn't the problem :)
15:14.23starseekerin this case it seems to be - apparently the glibc install didn't recreate the la file
15:14.24starseekergrr
15:15.45brlcadit's not likely that glibc has a .la and even if it did, overwriting it wouldn't cause run-time problems
15:15.46brlcadthe .so would be the problem
15:15.46narniabrlcad, is librt a .a or .so?
15:16.17brlcaduhm, librt is the name of the library
15:16.23brlcadthe .a is a static version of that library
15:16.38brlcadthe .so is a shared object version of that library
15:16.47narnianevermind
15:16.49brlcadthe .la is a libtool version of that library ;)
15:16.55narniaagreed
15:17.05brlcadbrl-cad install's both shared and static
15:17.16narnialooks like gentoo has a name collision.
15:17.41starseekeroh, lots of them, when you put things in /usr/lib - tcl/tk is one, and there are a few others
15:18.01narnialibrt from glibc is colliding with brl-cad librt. two very different libs.
15:18.14starseekerbrlcad warned me - I guess that's why things normally go in /usr/brlcad
15:18.29brlcadthat is one of the reasons
15:18.40brlcadlibrt is only one of several libraries that "can" conflict
15:20.09brlcadlibbn is another one .. openssl's "big number" library or brl-cad's "basic numerics" library
15:21.01starseekerNormally it wouldn't be a problem, but I was trying to create an ebuild and was a bit of a doofus in the beginning...  
15:21.32brlcadthere are about a half-dozen possible things that may conflict
15:21.42brlcadthat I know of
15:21.47starseekerHeh - well, there's always the good old "touch /usr/lib/librt.la"
15:21.58narnia;-)
15:21.58brlcadhow to resolve them is still up for debate
15:22.17starseekerbrlcad :  Is there a reason not to just name them brlcad-*libraryname*?
15:22.19brlcadstarseeker: how does that help?
15:22.31starseekerit solves the name conflicts
15:22.50starseekeroh - you mean touch?  with any luck it will quit giving me file not found errors
15:23.01starseekerwe'll see if it actually NEEDS whatever was in there ;-)
15:24.07brlcadstarseeker: those are not libraries that can be renamed easily and I'm not inclined to rename them regardless
15:24.16starseekerHmm. OK.
15:24.32starseekernot even just the file names?
15:24.53starseekerkeep the current filename, and just append a brlcad- to the front?
15:24.54brlcadthey predate the other libraries and have many applications that depend on them being named as such
15:25.16narniaagreed
15:25.19starseekerOh, other than brlcad you mean?
15:25.23brlcadthat's the whole point -- appending anything to the front is not "keeping the current filename"
15:25.31starseekerOK
15:26.27brlcadI mean if they were new libraries and we had named something libgnome and found it conflicted, that's one thing
15:26.34brlcadthat's not the case here by a long shot
15:27.00brlcadthese are core libraries that are over two decades old (libbu, libbn, librt)
15:27.23starseekerHmm.  wow
15:27.25brlcadthere are lots of external applications that use brl-cad's libraries
15:27.33starseekerOK.  Hmm.
15:27.42starseekerWhat about adding it as a configure option?
15:27.43brlcadso renmaing them would mean changing all of them
15:28.11brlcadwhich would piss off lots of people and dilute the established name recognition
15:28.11starseekerso systems where the other apps weren't an issue could change it, but the default would be the current system?
15:28.28starseekercool
15:28.56brlcadstarseeker: can you see if there are any gentoo guidelines on conflict resolution?
15:29.04starseekerI'll take a look
15:29.05brlcadthis can't be the first instance
15:31.07brlcadas a last resort we can either do what X11 does and use a top level root like /usr/brlcad/ or do something like java with isolated subdirs for libs/includes/etc like /usr/lib/brlcad/
15:31.53brlcadI'm adding a configure-time hook for the latter for the debian apt system folks
15:32.08brlcadso that would probably suffice for you too
15:32.16starseekerYes, that sounds good
15:32.29starseekersimpler for you guys too - one mechanism to maintain
15:32.30brlcadbut if there's another means to resolve the conflict, I'd like to know
15:32.40brlcadstarseeker: it's a more complicated install, though
15:32.57brlcadrequires scripts that will add /usr/lib/brlcad to the system search path on installation
15:33.02starseekerwell, I haven't found anything gentoo specific yet, but what little I have seen indicates names of library filenames have to be unique
15:33.22starseekerbrlcad - I know, but I think there are mechanisms that do that
15:33.55brlcadwell of course they ultimately do need to be unique or exist in separate directories -- but if there are procedural means to get them resolved
15:34.38starseekerOh.  I can't find anything about that yet - my guess is it just shows up in a bug report and people figure out what to do then
15:35.10starseekerI think /usr/lib/brlcad should be fine - on checking I see the mozilla ebuild(s) have added a /usr/lib/mozilla entry
15:35.27starseekerso has fltk
15:35.58starseekerIf a lousy web browser can add a line, I should think brlcad is entitled ;-)
15:36.16brlcadstill, if it can be resolved without that -- that would definitely be preferred
15:36.51brlcadas developers end up needing to add multiple search paths to their build systems
15:37.44starseekerWell, the only other option I can see is renaming the glibc library :-/
15:37.53starseekeror those files rather
15:43.21brlcaddo you know if the portage maintainers are apposed to a /usr/brlcad ?
15:43.31brlcads/app/opp/
15:44.30starseekerDunno.  Only real way is to submit an ebuild and find out
15:44.31brlcadan installation similar to X11
15:45.28starseekerOnce I get my system back in order I'll see what I can put together
15:45.31brlcadnobody authoritative on #gentoo?
15:45.35starseekerNah
15:46.02starseekerI'll give it a shot, but it's more of a help channel - I'll probably get lost in the noise
15:46.26brlcadack, they're growing too
15:49.52starseekerWell, the fltk ebuild looks fairly straightforward
15:51.10starseekerHmm - maybe ranlib is what I need for librt.a -> librt.la  
15:51.25brlcadranlib gives the .a
15:51.31starseekercrud
15:51.41brlcadlibtool makes the .la
15:52.03brlcadlibtool runs ranlib (or whatever your system needs) and makes the .so and .a at compile time
15:52.04starseekerany way to run libtool on a individual file?
15:52.13brlcadit doesn't work that way
15:52.21brlcadI'm not following what the problem is, though
15:52.31starseekerI'll show you the build output in a sec...
15:52.36brlcadif you're missing librt.la, there's a bigger problem
15:53.01starseekeruh oh
15:59.13starseekerCrud.
15:59.16starseekerlibtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/librt.la'
16:01.00starseekerWell, gotta run for now - I'll let y'all know once I come up with a more friendly ebuild for gentoo
16:01.16starseekerthanks for the help!
16:04.52narniasomething tells me he is going to have to at least re-install glibc.
16:25.09brlcadwhy libtool is wanting /usr/lib/librt.la seems wrong
16:25.12brlcadmaybe a stale build
17:30.48narniano idea i have never tried gentoo.
17:43.42narniaargh i think the ap203.exp i am using is incorrect.
20:26.29*** join/#brlcad CIA-10 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050326

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050326

02:07.36*** join/#brlcad Pimpinella (~frank@p54818299.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
04:15.12*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
06:06.14*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (~Matthew@pcp0011643451pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
06:06.51PKMOBILEwow even Twingy comes here now
06:10.37PKMOBILEhave i been gone so long????
06:39.29*** join/#brlcad tancred (~tancred@d233-64-63-249.clv.wideopenwest.com)
06:40.15tancredI am attempting to use mged to help design a piece of furniture. Is mged the right tool for me?
06:40.51narniabrlcad, well i am pretty much dead in the water for the moment. i need to look at the ISO 10303-203:1994/Amd 1:2000 document to resolve the issues with ap203 data probe.
06:41.08narniatancred, hello
06:41.13tancredHi.
06:41.38narniayes mged is the modeller interface.
06:41.59narniai would suggest that you work through the tutorial.
06:42.13tancredI am through the first two lessons so far.
06:42.28narniathat is good.
06:43.11tancredI am curious to know if you can save specific shapes separate from a database? That is if I build a part A for once piece of furniture how can I reuse it in another.
06:43.21tancredWill the tutorial eventually tell me this?
06:44.15narniayou are able to copy objects between databases. yes the tutorial eventually covers this.
06:45.32narniaobject libraries have been requested and i think they are on the 'request for enhancements' list. (the wishlist).
06:46.32tancredI am curious to see how well mged helps me to know how much load a particular piece of furniture can take. To know the weak points.
06:47.42narniatancred, brclad is the person to talk to about that. he is out for the weekend i do believe.
06:48.21tancredWell first things is first: bed, breakfast and tutorial lesson 3. Thanks for the info.
06:48.47narniayou are welcome.
07:06.36PrezKennedygnight #brlcad land
11:51.40*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
11:51.40*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
17:47.02*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (~danfalck@wbar1.sea1-4-5-017-067.sea1.dsl-verizon.net)
20:11.46CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: rename REVERSED_IEEE to REVERSE_IEEE so the name matches in length to NATURAL_IEEE
20:23.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: check for HAVE_XQUERYEXTENSION define
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20:24.38*** join/#brlcad Walter (~52358e82@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:25.29WalterHello everybody!
20:26.25CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs): use REVERSE_IEEE now instead of REVERSED_IEEE
20:27.03WalterI've just downloaded BRL, but I've some problems with installation. Coul you help me?
20:29.15WalterMy problem is that the file "setup.sh" was not present in the program. So I downloaded it by the net, but it doesn't seem to work properly
20:30.45WalterDuring installation, I received an error massege like "error: files installed but unpackaged". This happens during the build stage of the rpm file
20:31.24WalterNOTE: I have a PC Intel and my OS is Red Hat
20:38.57WalterSorry, nobody answers me so I must leave. Anyway if someone could give some advices, plese write me to walter.rosellini@virgilio.it. Bye, bye.
21:47.55*** join/#brlcad cad611 (~535231fc@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:48.14cad611hello people
21:48.40cad611hello people
21:49.54cad611hello ?
21:50.49cad611I'm having a problem with brlcad on SuSE
21:52.37*** join/#brlcad cad983 (~535231fc@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:50.49*** part/#brlcad dan_falck (~danfalck@wbar1.sea1-4-5-017-067.sea1.dsl-verizon.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050327

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050327

00:39.54*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (~Matthew@pcp0011643451pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
01:07.07brlcadoopsie, missed a couple
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02:26.52narniabrlcad, hello there. i thought you would be out all weekend.
02:27.10narniadebugging the libexpress.
02:27.51narniatracing through all the  different  10303 parts is a pain.
02:57.37CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/perf.sh: use same tab spacing for vgr line as the current value line (instead of spaces). tighten the summary output too.
03:12.11CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/perf.sh: fix the output if there are no summary values -- this happens if the benchmarks fail (crash) or are aborted early. i believe this happens to fix sf bug #925404 too (bench/run.sh generates garbage if aborted).
03:14.49*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (~danfalck@wbar1.sea1-4-5-017-067.sea1.dsl-verizon.net)
03:26.47CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: the benchmark should no longer report environment garbage into the summary file if the benchmark run is aborted
03:34.20CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed aborted benchmark summary bug
03:48.33CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: output object name when root solver fails to converge
14:01.09CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/Makefile.am: sgi_dep.c has LIBSGIGL symbols, so add to LDADD list
14:04.25CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/Makefile.am: sgi_dep.c has LIBSGIGL symbols, so add to LDADD list
14:57.13CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/Makefile.am: don't actually need the GL library, just sgi gl library
14:58.04CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/Makefile.am: don't actually need the GL library, just sgi gl library
14:59.20CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: need sgi gl library, not the OpenGL library
17:02.42narniait would be nice is there was the equivalent of sourcenav for express language.
17:14.51narniatell you one problem with working with step libraries and related issues. there are not many people to talk with about problems.
20:42.41*** join/#brlcad walter (~523b9b0b@bz.bzflag.bz)
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21:53.17cad983hello people !
23:04.36*** join/#brlcad Segers_J (~jj@Segers-J.active.supporter.pdpc)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050328

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050328

00:36.38narniawell i have narrowed down the probelm to a particular IRs and the resolve routines in libexpress.
00:45.12narniathe particular IRs is 10303-042 the particular schema is geometry_schema the particular entities are ::  ENTITY revolved_area_solid and ENTITY revolved_face_solid, which are nearly identical.
00:47.16narniawhat baffles me at the moment is that ENTITY revolved_area_solid  and ENTITY revolved_face_solid are nearly identical to ENTITY surface_of_revolution, which does not have the problem.
00:50.31*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu)
00:52.22PrezKennedyhey brlcad you been to OSG lately?
00:52.26PrezKennedyits gotten a lot faster :-)
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03:51.40brlcadnarnia: sourcenav?
03:52.05brlcadis that the gui screenshot you showed earlier for browsing source code/
03:52.20brlcadcall tree views and such
03:52.51brlcadPrezKennedy: nope, can't say that I have
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04:10.41narniabrlcad, http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/ i am using this for libexpress and step development.
04:11.21narniabrlcad, it would be nice to have something like sourcenav that grok express language and step files.
04:45.52CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: Added call to wdb_create_cmd() due to change in wdb_init_obj()
05:07.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Add HAVE_GL_GL_H
05:17.46CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: Modify bn_common_name_size declaration: add "const" specifier to "name" parameter
05:19.49CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: Add code to allow libfb to be a Windows DLL
05:21.24CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: Add code to allow libpkg to be a Windows DLL
05:23.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/wdb.h: Add code to allow libwdb to be a Windows DLL
05:25.50CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: If Windows, call Tcl_FindExecutable() before calling Tcl_CreateInterp()
05:28.26CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbn/asize.c: Move declarations of bn_common_name_size() and bn_common_image_size() to bn.h
05:32.27CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_disk.c: Add code for Windows port: unlink() changes to remove(), lseek() changes to _lseek()
05:35.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl_win32.c: Change function signatures from K&R to ANSI
05:43.55CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: If Windows, use _stricmp and strnicmp instead of strcasecmp and strncmp, respectively
05:47.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: Add mods for Windows port
05:51.34CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: Change mk_bot to rt_mk_bot to avoid name collision with routines in libwdb
05:52.58CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: If Windows, use _sys_nerr and _sys_errlist
05:55.43CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/pipe.c: Remove declaration of rt_pipe_ck(). It's now declared in raytrace.h
05:58.57CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: #if-out unused variable
06:04.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: Remove declaration of rt_binunif_free(). Its already declared in raytrace.h
06:05.27CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/timer-nt.c: Include vmath.h and raytrace.h
06:08.09CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Declare more functions from librt
06:16.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/spm.h: Mods to make more of libbn's functions available via a Windows DLL
06:28.20CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/spectrum.h: Declare more librt functions
06:32.21CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/ (44 files in 4 dirs): Add code to allow liboptical to be a Windows DLL
07:18.14narniai am coming to the conclusion that something 'funky' is happening to the hash table.
07:19.03narniaas to why it only occurs in this particular case is still a mystery.
07:32.57brlcadegads :)
07:35.35brlcadthat is a lot of commits
07:35.56brlcadhrm, i sure wish he'd stop throwing in #ifdef WIN32
07:36.18brlcadjust ends up being stuff that has to be changed later
07:37.03brlcadnarnia: so in not so few words - yes, it is what you showed me earlier :)
07:40.53narniathis bug is driving me up the wall.
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07:49.07narniacad888, hello, how goes it?
07:49.34cad888hi
07:50.18cad888Does anyone know if there is a windows build of brlcad?
07:51.31narniacad888, the windows port is currently being worked on.
07:52.10brlcadcad888: there is a beta but it is only for developers
07:52.32brlcadif you're not a developer then "not yet"
07:52.42brlcadkill it!
07:54.03narniait is dead jim. ;-)
07:54.23cad888I see, was it just recently made opensource?
07:55.03narniacad888, jan 2005
07:55.27brlcadnarnia: technically dec 2004 :)
07:56.21brlcadI made the final legal conversion on Dec 21
07:57.01cad888that's pretty recent
07:57.09brlcadthe news announcements were not approved for about a week and a half later -- so few found out until it his /.
07:57.20brlcads/his/hit/
07:58.28brlcadcad888, very recent -- it's been a flurry of various activities and demands on time since
07:59.38cad888Cool, I'm going to try it out on my linux box once it finishes downloading
08:00.57cad888brlcad & narnia, see you later, thanks
08:01.13brlcadcheers!
08:03.15narniabrlcad, any words of wisdom on the bug problem?
08:30.42CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
08:30.42CIA-10BRL-CAD: if sproc() is available (e.g. on irix), do NOT try to link with pthreads as it
08:30.42CIA-10BRL-CAD: will cause bad things to happen even if not explicitly using pthreading in the
08:30.42CIA-10BRL-CAD: code. add check for XQueryExtension and reinstate HAS_SGIGL define until the
08:30.42CIA-10BRL-CAD: code that relies on it can be decoupled
08:32.23brlcadnarnia: hmm, not that would be of any use
08:33.08brlcadbtw, jano's had a very bad week last week -- part of why he's been absent
08:33.37brlcadhe's tough, though -- he'll bounce back eventually
08:34.32PrezKennedyhe'll be borking us again in no time
08:40.47narniawhat happened to jano?
08:41.11narniathat is a serious question.
15:44.02CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/optical.h: remove \r carriage returns, should only be \n. editor/studio/.net should be set to never create \n\r line endings on windows for new or existing files -- causes obscure problems.
16:44.54CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/.cvsignore: ignore the built burst
16:47.38CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/.cvsignore: ignore the generated btclsh and bwish binaries
16:52.47CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/.cvsignore: ignore the generated fbserv binary
16:59.49CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/jack/.cvsignore: ignore the generated g-jack and jack-g binary
16:59.52brlcad<PROTECTED>
16:59.55brlcadeek
17:05.13brlcadjust kidding -- whatcha need?
17:05.37CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/.cvsignore: comb and nurb_example are noinst programs
17:05.58narniawhat happened to jano? this is a serious question.
17:06.13brlcadoh, personal stuff -- bad long week
17:06.27brlcadnothing permanent/physical
17:06.46brlcaddistressing for him, though
17:07.13narnialast week was not a good week. a friend's daughter, 36 yo, died of cancer last wednesday. funeral was saturday.
17:07.57narniathat is good to hear. jano will recover.
17:08.05narniathat is a 'good' thing.
17:09.45brlcadyep
17:10.33narnialooks like i am going to have to break down and debug this problem with printf and dumping the various dictionary hash tables at critical points.
17:11.40narniathe problem is not easily debugged using gdb.
18:46.43CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/.cvsignore: ignore pngtest binary
19:10.04brlcadCIA-10 has problems today..
19:14.22CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows reportedly doesn't have drand48 function, so don't claim to have it
19:16.25brlcadmissing lots of commits
19:26.07CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: drand is bogus, check for dran48
19:37.30CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: if drand48 isn't available, use the win32 rand() alternative
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20:08.28JymmmIs brlcad a good choice for cad/CAM work?
20:13.24brlcadJymmm: depends on what you're goal is
20:13.52brlcadbrl-cad is a solid modeler primarily intended for the purposes of cad and simulations/analyses
20:14.28brlcadcadd (drafting) and cam are not well developed yet, though much work is occuring in those directions to improve support
20:15.49brlcadif you're a developer, we're always looking for folks to join the project and help improve it ;)
20:21.00Jymmmbrlcad: You wouldn't want me as a devleoper =) I have my "own" ways of doing things =)
20:21.50JymmmI was jsut looking for a open source CAD pkg and came across brlcad, so I thought I'd at least ask =)
20:22.40JymmmThough I do like the idea it's in ANSI C =)
20:34.30brlcadit's been around for a very long time too, with quite a sizeable user community
20:38.52brlcadJymmm: maybe your "own" way happens to coincide.. :)  can always check out the HACKING file if you get interested
20:39.32brlcadit has the "dev rules"
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21:42.54CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: rttherm needs fb, ssamp-bw needs bu and bn
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23:35.37CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: search for srand48() function
23:39.48CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: oop, missed a few win32 defs, using HAVE_DRAND48 and HAVE_SRAND48 instead
23:40.30CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): use HAVE_SRAND48 symbol check
23:52.30CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/.cvsignore: add pixcmp
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050329

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050329

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02:42.41CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (6 files in 6 dirs): add the generated config and index scripts
03:03.02CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (8 files in 8 dirs): ignore the generated index files
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03:37.57CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/.cvsignore: might as well ignore the backups for copying and install too
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03:45.46PrezKennedyhey brlcad what time did IRC say i logged off last night?
03:46.12PrezKennedypower went out in the middle of the night and i dont know when
04:02.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: separate the extra_dist to one per line, make the benchmark targets explict phonies
04:06.16CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: might as well say 'type' instead of 'typ.' ..
04:11.29CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: separate the files to one per line and sort. add regression and test as additional targets, regression being the work-horse and regress or test being synonyms.
04:16.18CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: add regression and test as regress synonyms, use the SH make variable instead of the automake variable, append a log suffix to the install log marker.
04:37.28brlcad07:21 -!- PrezKennedy [~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
04:37.52PrezKennedythanks
04:42.06CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: must cd and make at the same time
04:45.14CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: simplify the instructions for running the tests
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06:13.25CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: write out a detailed log entry on a make install to the install log file, record the release, user, date, and root
08:00.00narniai have come to the conclusion that i need to back up a bit and rewrite some of the original nist libexpress source code. there are large parts which are obsolete (i.e. #if 0 ) parts which call functions which are not present and i have no idea where to find them or what they should do. libexpress just needs a good house cleaning. what definitely needs to be added is debugging code. there is currently none.
08:02.16narniaso first all backward compatible and #if 0 source code gets purged. then some debugging code.
08:04.06narniait does not surprise me that this is taking longer than i originally thought. my original estimate was overly optimistic.
08:05.00narniaas the olde saying goes "you have to break some eggs to bake a cake."
08:27.25brlcadmmhmm
08:27.32brlcadthat's how it usually goes, no?
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19:00.46*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
20:43.38narniai think i have found the problem. i need to come up with the least minimal .exp file that will still display the problem.
20:49.00narniai could also dump the hash tables and link lists and wade through that to see if i am correct.
20:50.31narniait comes down to the differences between "use" and "reference" as defined in part 11.
20:51.32narniait would seem to me that "use" and "reference" should be identical both it appears that they have subtle differences.
21:18.01*** join/#brlcad narnia_ (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
21:21.47narniawell in re-reading part11 "use" and "reference" have more than subtle differences.
21:22.33narniathe problem is how "reference" is being handled.
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23:21.30narniatom sawyer ate the router network cable. patched it back together
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050330

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050330

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02:01.29CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/material.c: quell warning about type conversion
02:14.06tancredI am curious. How difficult would it be to have a "undo" feature in brlcad? So that if I don't like something I did X number of undo changes could be done.
02:16.44brlcadtancred: that's been the topic of discussion for several years now
02:17.08brlcaddifficult is relative, of course -- but it wouldn't be incredibly too hard
02:17.15brlcadthere are many ways it could be done, though
02:25.40tancredHave you heard about the Command design pattern?
02:35.03tancredI have go now. I would like to talk about the design later. Is there a time when the main developers are online?
02:35.42brlcadyes, i'm familiar with it
02:36.26tancredWell I would like to talk later about the design. When are you typically online?
02:36.29brlcadmost of the devs are EST, though only a few have made it in to here to date
02:36.35brlcadi'm here most all the time, though ;)
02:36.46brlcadand if I'm not, I read the log
02:37.01tancredHow do I obtain the log via IRC?
02:37.02brlcadfeel free to post and idle, and I'll respond
02:37.20brlcad~logs
02:37.21ibotapt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz
02:37.33tancredThanks.
02:37.40*** part/#brlcad tancred (~tancred@d233-64-63-249.clv.wideopenwest.com)
03:00.04narniawhich means that only a few developers are in the  correct timezone. ;-)
03:03.32brlcador just that more devs are needed :)
03:11.03narniawell this is true.
03:13.47narniahere is an interesting fact: while looking to the disk space hogs i found this: 344M    /usr/local/brlcad  vs 2.3G    /usr/local/OpenCASCADES.2
03:14.50narniaorders of magnitude difference.
03:21.22brlcadnot quite an order of magnitude :)  only about 7x
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07:09.05CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: ACK! shade has a multispectral mode too and must be included into libmultispectral otherwise nasty crashes occur.
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07:11.05CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: get rid of the stale files and make lib dependant upon liboptical (for AmbientIntensity, rdebug, background and maybe a couple other globals).
07:14.41CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (7 files): consistency on the #ifdef inclusions of RT_MULTISPECTRAL, clean up the spectrum extern declarations now that spectrum is now a liboptical global.
07:17.45narniaafter re-read part11 for the nth time i have come to an understanding of 'use' and 'reference'. the best analogy for 'use' is include files. 'use' many be chained. the 'used' object becomes local to the schema's scope. the best analogy for 'reference' is extern. the 'referenced' item is visible to the schema's scope but not local to the schema's scope. if any object is both 'used' and 'referenced' in the same schema 'use' wins out.
07:22.53CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libmultispectral/init.c: remove rdebug, AbientIntensity, spectrum, and background from libmultispectral as those defines are (at least now) coming from liboptical's init.c. this avoids duplicate symbol and initialization scope errors
07:23.48CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/pixtest.c: spectrum is in liboptical library now
07:24.50CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssamp-bw.c: quell a basename duplicate symbol warning
07:26.00CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssampview.c: quell basename duplicate symbol warning (system lib on os x), quell Tcl_CreateCommand argument type warnings)
07:27.12CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: env_region is provided through liboptical so not needed in the front end
07:30.34CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed rttherm previous results interference bug
07:38.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/spectrum.h: add the headers this header depends on
07:41.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c:
07:41.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: fix rttherm (and pretty much any of the rt progs) from crashing when the output
07:41.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: file already exists and is larger than the size currently being rendered. also
07:41.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: change the pixmap malloc to a bu_malloc to avoid returning null
08:11.30narniasomeone has been a busy little beaver. ;-)
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17:36.02cad281hi all
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18:22.59Lihi all
18:24.06narniaLi, hello, how goes it?
18:24.17Liwell thank, you?
18:24.46narniaenjoying a spring day.
18:25.16Lihere: rain and dreary, awaiting spring with eagerness...
18:25.33LiMay I ask you a question?
18:25.38narniahere: breezy, sun shine, warm.
18:25.42narniasure
18:25.58LiI just started brlcad and am well impressed ...
18:26.06narniagood to hear
18:26.26Liusing br-pix I can get 'sceenshots' but ...
18:26.42brlcadhello Li
18:26.52narniayes
18:27.04LiI want to use them in a postscript file with the background transparant.  Know of any way to do this?
18:27.11Lihello brlcad
18:27.14narniagimp
18:27.37Liof course ...
18:27.43brlcadLi: depends what you are screenshotting
18:28.04Liwhat do you mean brlcad?
18:28.07brlcadLi: you can export postscript or plotter rules to a file of the wireframe
18:28.57brlcadif you want the rendered, you'll have to use an image-editing package to remove the background color for transparencty
18:29.19LiUp to now I have been br-pix ing raytraced pictures
18:30.03Liwhat would I start reading to export to postscript?
18:31.36Liof course i meant fb-pix in all of the above
18:32.41brlcadbr-pix?
18:32.46brlcadahh
18:33.13brlcadLi: in mged on the File menu Render View
18:33.43brlcadagain, that is only the wireframe, not any raytraced image
18:34.18brlcadfb-png is probably more useful for insertion into other documents
18:34.30LiI understand but it may be an alternative way to represent my model.  Many thanks.
18:35.15Lifb-png or the likes are indeed better to look at and once I get the transparancy sorted it will look great.
18:35.20brlcadif you export a plot file, there are a handful of pl-* commands that might be of interest
18:36.41LiI have not really come accross plot files before so there's an other thing I will read up on.
18:37.00brlcadit wouldn't be too difficult to add a transparency option to the *-png commands for the background color
18:37.37brlcadthat would be single-value transparency, though -- full alpha channel support would be more difficult
18:38.01brlcadLi: it's the old format that used to control the line plotter devices you may have seen in old movies :)
18:38.06Liyes, I see what you mean.
18:38.43Librlcad, are you (co-)developer of this?
18:41.01brlcadyes
18:41.41Lithanks for making this available for public use.
18:41.55brlcadit only took me five years :)
18:43.15brlcadgetting BRL-CAD open sourced was rather difficult and took a relatively "long time" (tm) .. in the end we were just ultimately lucky (right place, people, time)
18:44.29LiI can imagine that being the difficult part.
18:44.51brlcadIt's been great since, though
18:45.06LiI have just compiled on a linux ppc (ibook2) and simply ran a make on it and all worked (until now)
18:45.29brlcaduntil now?
18:45.46brlcadsomething hasn't worked?  or you mean the transparency feature?
18:45.53LiI have only done basic things with it.  :-)
18:46.08LiI do not foresee problems.
18:46.42LiI got it to crash (but that was my own fault)
18:46.48brlcadfeel free to hang out here and get more involved :)
18:47.08brlcadoh?  a crash is bad even if your "fault" :)
18:47.16LiI will and look forward to it.  
18:48.08LiI created a circular refernce in 2 regions.  then tried drawing them.  bang.
18:49.58brlcadeek, that's not good
18:50.06brlcadfunny, but not good :)
18:50.35Li:-))
18:50.46brlcaddo you have an sf.net account to post a bug report for that?
18:51.59LiNo I have not but I am not sure this warrants a bug since I created the reference with ted so it would be very difficult to check and flag.  Do you agree?
18:52.16brlcadanything that causes a crash is a bug
18:53.04brlcadnow if it pops up a dialog and quits, that's different .. but it shouldn't ever crash
18:53.32Litrue.  I will get that organised.  Can i file feature requests there too (transparancy)?
18:54.33brlcadof course!
18:54.35brlcadplease so
18:54.38brlcads/so/do/
18:55.02LiMany thanks all. Now I must get back to work.
18:55.14brlcadsame here, thank you
21:38.50*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050331

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050331

05:53.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: (log message trimmed)
05:53.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: arrrrgh!!! rtedge was using a global named background, which was removed when
05:53.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: liboptical picked up the rt background variable of the same name. the problem
05:53.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: is that rtedge was using a triplet of ints, rt/liboptical used/uses a triplet of
05:53.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: floats! .. this caused the set command struct parse variable setting to not work
05:53.44CIA-10BRL-CAD: quite as was intended... resulting in the background never changing from black.
05:53.46CIA-10BRL-CAD: this fixes the problem by reinstating rtedges global int triplet but lets call
06:04.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
06:04.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: fixed rtedge/rtwizard background render failure bug where the -c set background
06:04.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: option would not behave as expected (it seemingly did nothing). the problem is
06:04.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: related to different way rtedge deals with the background compared to rt -- rt
06:04.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: uses a float triplet, rtedge was trying to use an int triplet. code changes
06:04.23CIA-10BRL-CAD: from some time ago made all background modifiers use liboptical's (float
06:04.25CIA-10BRL-CAD: triplet) global, which resulted in the bug. the int triplet was reinstated,
06:08.10brlcadwoo hoo.. ready to release
06:08.22brlcadjust gotta test irix64 build for sanity
08:35.05narniawhich release?
08:35.25narniairix as in sgi?
10:42.48narniawell the debugging to progressing. still homing in on the area of source code that may be the problem. writing more debugging code. mainly, it will dump the entire hash table in a sane manner.
10:43.25narniathe problem with dummping the entire hash table in a sane manner is that the output is large.
17:30.29*** join/#brlcad tancred (~tancred@d233-64-63-249.clv.wideopenwest.com)
17:31.01tancredIn working with the Introduction to MGED document the menus I am suppose to be using don't match my version (7.2.0)
17:31.16tancredFor example in the Edit menu there is suppose to be a Solid Editor.
17:31.59tancredDo I need to upgrade?
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18:16.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: simplify the libraries to (hopefully) just what is needed
18:16.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: score one for irix, tcl lib must come after the tk lib to resolve the tcl symbols in libtk ..
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050401

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050401

01:21.24brlcadhello tancred
01:22.18brlcadtancred: no, the document was written around version 6 -- that section of the intro about the edit menu is known
01:22.29brlcadit's there, just reorganized
01:22.44brlcadthere sphere is the sph under ellipsoids, for example
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07:22.40narniawell i found the problem. the rename functions are not working correctly. now the trick is to fix the problem without breaking something else.
07:55.06narniathe data structures for libexpress are ugly.
07:55.13narnia;-)
09:57.52narniaargh, argh, argh
10:00.01narniawell all was not lost in debugging this problem. large parts of the source code have been either cleaned up or rewritten. the problem is the part42 .exp file. the copy i have is incorrect. even an ap203 long .exp fails for the exact same reason.
14:35.58*** join/#brlcad asdasd (fgq@203-190-195-220.dial.usertools.net)
15:03.01learnerhello asdasd
15:05.10asdasdhi
19:41.01[Prez|Kennedy]i always wanted to do pink and purple for a website :-p
19:56.14narniabrlcad, when you have a moment would you read part11 ed2 concerning 'use' and 'reference' and tell me what your 'take' on those two is.
19:56.41[Prez|Kennedy]i dont want any!
19:57.47[Prez|Kennedy]are they deadly?
19:57.56narniano
19:58.04[Prez|Kennedy]sounds good
20:02.58*** join/#brlcad animall (~jwmcc@adsl-12-115-200.gsp.bellsouth.net)
20:03.05animallhello
20:04.13brlcadnarnia: possibly
20:06.35narniabrlcad, i am back to 'use' and 'reference' being in question.
20:08.22animallhow much of a pain is the compile on FC3
20:08.50brlcadanimall: it should work straight from checkout
20:09.09brlcadif it doesn't, it'll be something very minor
20:09.14brlcadassuming you have opengl configured
20:12.00brlcadanimall: your best bet is to use cvs, but even 7.0.4 should be fine
20:12.27brlcadbuild instructions are pretty simple: ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make
20:12.35brlcad(for cvs)
20:14.52animallum no hardware supporting opengl
20:15.10animallS3 Savage on this machine, Matrox MG400 on the other
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20:16.14animallsecond machine is sort of stuck with the default vid, no expansion slots for agp
20:16.29animallonly pci slots, used up with SCSI and NIC cards
20:23.20brlcadhmm, then it will be a slight problem until I finish up this current set of build fixes
20:24.08brlcadit's presently hard-wired for open gl for our "new" autoconf build system
20:24.33brlcadthat should be fixed by our next release iteration (next month)
20:25.12brlcadthe binary build should work for you, just have to run without the tcl/tk gui
20:25.14[Prez|Kennedy]wow them video cards are... over the hill
20:25.17brlcadmged -c or mged -n
20:25.40brlcadanimall: try the ia32 binary
20:26.31animallok thanks, off to have fun with this now
20:26.36*** part/#brlcad animall (~jwmcc@adsl-12-115-200.gsp.bellsouth.net)
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22:13.37[Prez|Kennedy]i see myself!!
23:06.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: customize the test for sys/sched.h to override the default header check that lets the unusable header pass on freebsd.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050402

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050402

02:47.06*** join/#brlcad starseeker (~starseeke@ip68-106-90-53.hr.hr.cox.net)
05:05.42*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu)
05:06.06PrezKennedylearner, brlcad, sin city is a good movie!!!!
05:17.00brlcadlooks good
05:17.44PrezKennedyi saw it tonight!
05:21.32brlcadhmm. i jealous then ;)
05:21.40brlcadmaybe tomorrow
05:33.41narniabrlcad, have had a chance to read part11ed2 concerning 'use' and 'reference'?
05:33.57brlcadnot yet
05:34.08brlcadbeen relaxing today
05:34.30narniathat is always a good think to do.
05:35.30narniabtw, monday and tuesday next week i am not going to be around much. monday, preparing for court on tuesday. tuesday court.
05:36.12brlcadbest of luck there
05:38.05narniathank you
05:44.46narniabrlcad, i was thinking of posting a msg to the step-os mailing list. not sure if it would be seen as an off-topic msg.
05:52.31narniabrlcad, what would you think of posting my 'use' and 'reference' question to step-os? on/off topic.
06:08.32PrezKennedyhow bout posting this picture of a hot UMBC chick topless?? on or off topic?
06:09.46*** join/#brlcad asdasd (fgq@203-190-199-124.dial.usertools.net)
06:09.56narniaPrezKennedy, must chicks i have seen have feathers.
06:11.08PrezKennedyuniv maryland baltimore county
06:11.25narniayuck
06:11.46narniai lived in laurel maryland for several years.
06:11.58PrezKennedysure beats college park... or... hopkins...
06:13.14narniacolumbia, maryland always struck me as the ultimate yuppy captial of north america.
06:14.50narnianeighborhood covenants are the pits.
06:15.16narniacollege park was relatively nice when i was there.
06:17.00narnialived in laurel, maryland off and on. left in 1986.
06:17.35PrezKennedyback in the old days
06:17.37narnianow i live in the cage of doom.
06:18.31PrezKennedyhey brlcad try doing a google image search on "us army uniform"
06:18.37narniajano, who btw has not been around, since he locked me in the cage of doom.
06:18.58PrezKennedydamn it changed
06:19.09PrezKennedystill on the first page though
06:21.09narniawhich url are you referring to?
06:21.25PrezKennedyshould be one linking to a futuristic looking uniform
06:21.30PrezKennedygoes to http://prezkennedy.org/
06:25.36PrezKennedymost the other stuff has around 5-100 hits... that one has around 2000, so it attracted my attention
17:53.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am:
17:53.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: hack to work around the irix compiler crashing on the libtool btclsh relink
17:53.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: attempt when we get to tclscripts. this lets all of the pkgIndex and tclIndex
17:53.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: scripts get generated during the build so the build doesn't halt (should be
17:53.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: mipspro-specific as it's a compiler crash on relink)
18:05.42narniabrlcad, well now everything hinges on whether 'use' and 'reference' are implemented correctly.
18:07.09narniabrlcad, shtolo (short to long) needs some clean up work and gets a bit confused but that is easily fixed.
18:09.06narniastill think it would be a good thing to have a program that would at least cross-reference all the APs, AICs, and IRs.
18:10.30narnials -ls
18:11.19narniaargh wrong window
18:15.15narniaa cross-reference written in perl would be a nice tool for checking if the input .exp files are indeed valid.
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19:05.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add optical.h to the header list for source distribution
20:36.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/.cvsignore: ignore the conditionally built jove generated files
20:55.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/bwish/Makefile.am): hack to work around the irix compiler crashing on the libtool btclsh relink attempt when we get to tclscripts -- only do the hack for that os/compiler since it will cause link problems on other platforms
23:26.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-X10.1 Makefile.am pl-X.1 pl-X10.1.stub): separate the pl-X and pl-X10 manpages, adding pl-X10.1, removing the unused pl-X10.1.stub
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050403

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050403

06:37.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS README configure.ac): bump revision number to 7.2.2 for release
06:39.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: changelog entries from 7.2.0 to 7.2.2 for release
06:46.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ack, set the release date to 2005-04-03
06:51.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS configure.ac README): bump revision post tagging to 7.2.3
18:57.17*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
18:57.17*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
21:24.54brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.2 is posted (20050403)
23:42.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: clarify and simplify some release steps
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050404

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050404

00:15.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: BRL-CAD is a meritocracy. BRL-CAD uses a monthly iteration cycle. Mention make test too.
07:41.17narniai nearly have exp2html working.
07:50.12narniacurrently it is retrieving at times bogus express objects from the hash tables.
07:50.52narniathe hash tables are correct. so it has to be something with how the searches of the hash tables are occurring.
09:05.24narniabrlcad, before i crawl off to my cage of doom bunk i have a question. have you tried the diesel engine step file in pro/e?
09:06.12narniabrlcad, given the events of the past few days i understand that you may not be doing much on brl-cad.
14:57.21*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
21:22.05*** join/#brlcad cad483 (~52e3da3e@bz.bzflag.bz)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050405

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050405

03:50.16brlcadnarnia: yes i did and you'll probably be interested in some of the stats ;)
03:51.21brlcadgranted this was loading up on an old sgi via an r10k processor -- keep that in mind
03:52.04brlcadpro/E quickly spiked to 280MB usage after about 2 minutes where it remained steady for the rest of the import
03:52.21brlcadthe import took 25 minutes
03:52.38brlcadit was a clean import, though
04:16.27narniabrlcad, ummm
04:16.57narniabrlcad, not bad for a 40+mbytes step file.
04:17.33narniabrlcad, pro/e must have some compact hash tables.
04:18.11narniabrlcad, definitely beats opencascade.
04:18.27brlcadhmm
04:18.39brlcadjust because opencascase sucks more? :)
04:18.40narniabrlcad, would you happen to remember how the model looked?
04:18.52brlcadyeah, looked like an engine :)
04:19.05brlcadcouldn't figure out how to hide all the damn labels, though
04:19.15narniaah
04:19.25brlcadthe iges surface export is 152MB :)
04:19.33brlcadgonna see how well that converts
04:20.13narniabrl-cad groks iges correct?
04:20.31brlcadversions at least up to about iges 4.3
04:21.27narniaopencascade does suck. ;-)
04:22.34narniai have not tried the file lately. still tracking down those 'happen once on a blue moon' type bugs.
04:23.26narniaexp2html is pretty cool. nothing fancy. no bells and whistles.
04:25.28narniawell i need to wander off to bed. in theory court tomorrow. i need to somewhat rested.
04:26.33brlcadcya later
05:36.07Twingywelp, new rocket motor is done
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15:01.12narniabrlcad, before i wander off to court in downtown chicago (argh spit), any suggestions for a logo for the step stuff?
15:02.02brlcada logo?
15:02.20brlcad3d steps? :)
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16:35.10brlcadhello cad507
16:36.14brlcadgoodbye cad507
23:28.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g2asc.1 g2asc.c): if the converter isn't going to let me do stdio redirection any more, the usage and manpage need to reflect that
23:34.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: removed redirection usage examples in g2asc docs. outputting the object name when the root solver fails actually didn't make the 7.2.2 release apparently due to a misunderstanding on my part so remove from list.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050406

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050406

00:32.21*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
04:02.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: wording of title and name
04:08.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: use top_srcdir so that the package scripts can be run when building from a different dir; fix make_dmg.sh, feed it a background image
04:27.12*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu)
04:28.57narniacourt was 5 hours of tedium.
04:29.00PrezKennedyshorty mooned me!!!!
04:29.04PrezKennedyof all the inhumane things
04:29.05PrezKennedy:-P
04:29.19brlcad5hours ugh
04:29.25brlcadany positives?
04:30.07narniamy lawyers tore a 60 page voc rehab report apart line by line. at the end everyone agreed the report sucked.
04:30.34PrezKennedyhey brlcad... know anyone who would write about how intel processors rock with open source games?
04:30.47PrezKennedyi got an email from an Intel person
04:31.32brlcadhmm
04:31.38brlcadthat sounds devious :)
04:31.56PrezKennedyheck ill write one if i get paid enough
04:31.57PrezKennedy:)
04:32.32brlcadask him how deep his pockets are :)
04:32.41narniabtw, the next trial date is may 11th.
04:33.19PrezKennedyits a chick...
04:33.31PrezKennedyfrom "Technical Marketing, Mobile Content Specialist"
04:33.36brlcadnarnia: eek
04:33.44brlcadPrezKennedy: pockets are pockets :)
04:33.56PrezKennedyif shes hot id fish around in em myself
04:33.57PrezKennedy:-p
04:34.12narniathis was supposed to be the last court hearing but issues were brought up that require yet another court date.
04:35.46PrezKennedyFormer maid: Jackson showered with boy
04:35.50PrezKennedythats NASTY
04:39.23narniamichael jackson and o.j. simpson would make a cute couple.
06:44.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: initial stub of a dmg script with potential to actually do something useful
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18:32.48*** join/#brlcad Li (lieven@host217-42-187-181.range217-42.btcentralplus.com)
18:34.16Lihi all
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20:52.03brlcadhello cad187
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050407

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050407

04:36.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: give the script a name when restarting via sudo
04:41.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh:
04:41.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: SWEET! It now has the basic components and will create a DMG on demand. It
04:41.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: still does not do anything with the background image yes thought it does detect
04:41.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: it. The script also does not run misc/macosx/openUp yet either. Still, sweet
04:41.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: progress.
04:48.53brlcadand on that note, I sleep early
06:25.39narniaokay perhaps a stupid question but how can this happen; Symbol           symbol         <0>; Symbol is a typedef struct. symbol is not a pointer. yet symbol has an address of 0x0.
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08:10.56narnianevermind
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17:07.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: JAVA_CFLAGS must be in the CPPFLAGS when the jni.h header is searched for...
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050408

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050408

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14:22.25brlcadi should make the "real name" the users web browser, I think
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17:39.23nvdstruisHello all
17:39.52brlcadhello :)
17:39.58brlcadi see you finally found a client that works?
17:40.15nvdstruisyes, you mean an irc client ?
17:40.20brlcadyep
17:40.33nvdstruisI'm using firefox
17:40.39brlcadcgi:irc can be a pain
17:40.55nvdstruisI'm not into IRC, yet
17:41.08brlcadyou might like xchat or irssi much better if you hang around more
17:41.16brlcadthe web-based interface is rather limiting
17:41.27brlcadbut certainly useable enough (with the right browsers)
17:41.42nvdstruisthanks again for your help
17:42.06brlcadhaven't helped you yet I think, but you're welcome ;)
17:42.40nvdstruisyes, you helped me solve the question I posted about the linker errors
17:42.53brlcadahh, okay
17:43.02brlcadthought the name looked familiar
17:43.16nvdstruisright :) it's the same
17:43.26brlcadsorry it took so long .. :)
17:43.42brlcadwould have taked about 4 days less in here :)
17:43.52nvdstruisoh, actually I was very happy it worked
17:44.14brlcadwhat version did you say you were using there?  7.2.2?
17:44.25nvdstruisyes, 7.2.2
17:44.55brlcadhrm, that's rather odd that you needed -lm -ldl -lpthread then
17:45.12nvdstruisI haven't used anything else then the mged and raytrace stuff though
17:45.33brlcadyou have seen the tutorial manuals?
17:45.44nvdstruisyes a little
17:45.49brlcadk
17:46.10nvdstruisare you a brlcad core developer?
17:46.15brlcadmight I ask what sort of application you're looking to develop?
17:46.20brlcadyes
17:46.37nvdstruissure, but it will take time to explain
17:46.46brlcadand I manage most of the open source activities to boot too
17:47.01nvdstruisfirst I will explain some background
17:47.19nvdstruisI work with TNO in the Netherlands
17:47.46nvdstruiswe are like the defense research institute
17:48.49nvdstruisthey use brlcad components at my work for building models of tanks and ships at my work
17:49.03nvdstruisand for raytracing of course
17:49.17nvdstruisstill there ?
17:49.22brlcadoooh, TNO :)
17:49.28nvdstruisok
17:49.39brlcadyes, I fade in and out.. if I don't answer, I'm within earshot
17:49.58nvdstruisa was asked to implement a model for heat transfer in ship compartments
17:50.06brlcador I'll read the log when I return.. another benefit of a non-cgi:irc irc client
17:50.15nvdstruisok
17:50.18brlcadokay
17:50.23brlcaddo you know Wim?
17:50.50nvdstruisWim Bokkers I presume ? Yes, he's a collegue
17:51.02brlcadyes, he's the guy
17:51.10brlcadgood to know
17:51.15brlcadsorry for the interruptions, continue ;)
17:51.50nvdstruisso, I needed to evaluate so called shape factors of components like walls in a compartment
17:52.12nvdstruisthey are an important parameter in radiation heat transfer
17:52.43brlcadokay
17:53.05brlcadwe do something similar in our analysis codes
17:53.09nvdstruisanalytical relations are available to determine those shape factors for simple well defined configurations
17:53.25nvdstruislike perpendicular rectangular surfaces
17:54.04nvdstruisbut a problem arises, because not all compartments are perfectly shaped boxes :)
17:54.19brlcadi can imagine :)
17:55.00brlcadslightly unsquare peg into a square hole kind of problem or more like a sphere into box problem?
17:55.01nvdstruisI read a book on radiation heat transfer and found a so called Monte Carlo simulation to determine these shape factors
17:55.52nvdstruisexactly, real world compartments with odd shapes
17:57.26nvdstruisthe Monte Carlo simulation says I should emit a ray from a random surface position in a random direction, a lot of times
17:57.41brlcadBtw, before I forget yet again, did you know that you could have compiled and ran rtexample from the source distribution?  it gets built along with everything else -- cd src/rt ; rm rtexample ; make rtexample
17:57.49brlcadit just doesn't get installed
17:58.06nvdstruisthen I should evaluate I didn't kow
17:58.09nvdstruisknow
17:58.32brlcadyes, monte carlo estimation is useful
17:58.41brlcadit's can be very slow to converge though
17:59.12nvdstruisyes, I hoped that with a fast library it could be acceptable
17:59.18brlcadthe photon mapping lighting model in brl-cad is a pseudo monte carlo estimation
17:59.54nvdstruiswhy pseudo ? because it is somehow controlled ?
18:00.20brlcadhow different are your various shape factors?  it might be easier to classify via some other known metrics
18:00.30brlcadit is controlled/bounded
18:01.06brlcadit doesn't continue to a tolerance, it continues to what you specify and it works in phases
18:01.38brlcadthere's first a photon propagation step that is a monte carlo distribution
18:01.52nvdstruisI don't really know how different the shape factors are
18:01.57brlcadthen multiple gathering and computation phases
18:02.38nvdstruisI should check that out, could save a lot of time
18:02.42brlcadif they are very well defined shapes that are very different, you can know the shape information almost instantly using the known object types
18:03.30brlcadbut if the shapes are complex and only slightly different, you are probably better off with a MC simulation
18:03.55nvdstruisI would like to compare those two options
18:05.09brlcadneed to know what your shape factors are first :)
18:05.41brlcadbtw, you can tell bokkers that I'm hoping to make some more progress on windows this weekend ;)
18:06.03nvdstruisok, he's anxious I guess
18:06.04brlcadI feel bad that it's taken this long, but there's been very little I can do about it officially
18:06.18brlcadi make progress on my own time when I can
18:06.45nvdstruisI have similar time problems :)
18:07.07nvdstruiswould like to learn better programming for example
18:07.08brlcadthe political environment is very unfavorable right now for working on that, but being open source definitely has helped
18:07.18brlcadwe now have lots of groups openly working on various problems
18:07.37nvdstruishas it worked out well, being open source?
18:07.53brlcadit's worked out great..
18:07.54nvdstruisbecause of feedback from users ?
18:08.11brlcadthere's been an explosion of feedback and interest
18:08.27nvdstruiscool, that's how it should be
18:08.37nvdstruiswith all software
18:08.37brlcadwe're the only open source solid modeler, with a large existing userbase, with a fair bit of documentation already
18:08.57brlcadmillions of $$$ already invested, mature cross-platform software
18:09.12brlcadnow we just have to fix the dang modeler :)
18:09.24brlcadmake it less fugly
18:09.31nvdstruis:) fugly ??
18:09.38brlcadf'ing ugly :)
18:09.52nvdstruisthat's what I guessed :)
18:10.25nvdstruisI have to go, diner time
18:10.33nvdstruisI'll get back monday
18:10.37brlcadnice talking to you, cya around
18:10.42nvdstruiscya
18:10.52brlcadagain, if nobody answers, go ahead and idle and I'll respond
18:11.03brlcadand into the night he flees
18:11.27brlcador maybe it was fleas
18:12.08brlcadonward and outbound, to the bellybutton and beyond!
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22:26.36cad929Can anyone help with a BRL-CAD OS X install from CVS source?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050409

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050409

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17:09.30Axioshi
17:10.05Axiosare there a fast tutorial, that describes how to install, and get a few basic things up and running?
17:10.21Axiosbrlcad seems very interesting
17:17.26brlcadhi axios
17:17.47brlcadthere are complete tutorial volumes (books)
17:17.56brlcadavailable on the website, http://brlcad.org
17:18.18brlcadother than that, I can walk you through whatever you like too
17:18.40brlcadinstallation from source is pretty simple
17:19.11brlcadfor most at least :)
17:23.46Axiosbrlcad: there are a compiled version at sourceforge, cant I use that?
17:23.56brlcaddepends
17:24.03brlcadwhat os are you using?
17:24.21Axiosdebian linux
17:24.35Axioson a amd athlon cpu
17:24.46brlcadthe ia32 for linux should work
17:24.53Axiosok
17:25.04Axiosi downloaded it, and decompressed it
17:25.14brlcadokay
17:25.15Axiosis that all I have to do?
17:25.32brlcadthat made a usr directory with a brlcad7.0 inside it, yes?
17:25.44Axiosyes
17:26.04brlcadok now with root privileges, mv usr/brlcad7.0 /usr/.
17:28.19Axioshow do I remove it, if I want to do that?
17:28.34Axiosisnt that almost impossible, if I move the files?
17:28.40brlcadyou just delete the /usr/brlcad7.0 directory
17:29.03Axiossure
17:29.09brlcadno, brl-cad is completely contained to there, so deletion is as simple as "rm -rf /usr/brlcad7.0"
17:29.13Axiosmisunderstood you at first
17:30.41AxiosI moved it
17:30.46Axioshow do I start it up?
17:31.04brlcadis there a /usr/brlcad7.0/ia32 or a bunch of dirs?
17:31.30Axiosthere is a /usr/brlcad
17:31.50brlcadhmm?
17:31.52Axios/usr/blrcad7.0/ia32 to be precise
17:31.58brlcadokay
17:32.10Axioswitch has some dir
17:32.12Axioss
17:32.14brlcadso last step is to add brl-cad's bin directory to your path
17:32.26brlcade.g. export PATH=/usr/brlcad.7.0/ia32/bin:$PATH
17:32.48Axiosyeah
17:32.56brlcadyou can add that to your user or system .profile
17:33.11Axiossure
17:33.16brlcadthe quick and simple test if you got it all right is to type: mged
17:33.45brlcadbrl-cad consists of several hundred programs, mged is one of the gui-based solid modelers
17:33.56Axiosbash: mged: command not found
17:34.11brlcadyou don't have the PATH set correctly
17:34.19Axiosmust be something with path
17:34.25brlcadperhaps you typed blrcad again? :)
17:34.40brlcadbee are ell cad :)
17:34.44Axiosit works with ./mged from the bin directory
17:35.21brlcadthat's good to know
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17:36.40Axiosit all works now
17:36.47brlcadI'd suggest reading http://brlcad.org/overview.html  if you haven't already, and then http://brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf for a full walk-through tutorial of mged
17:36.54Axiosthe fonts are huge
17:37.00brlcad:)
17:37.13Axiosis that normal?
17:37.36brlcadmged's primary author didn't have the greatest eyesight -- it's configurable
17:37.42brlcad:)
17:37.57Axioslol
17:38.31brlcadFile -> Preferences -> Fonts
17:38.34AxiosI have been using products like autodesk inventor, and solidworks
17:38.40Axioshow does this compare?
17:38.58brlcadfairly different markets
17:39.18brlcadas powerful, if not more-so on the modeling capabilities, but not as user-friendly
17:39.27Axiosokay
17:39.33Axiosthat doesn't bother me
17:39.34brlcadbrl-cad has a lot of embedded expert knowledge, hidden commands, etc
17:39.41brlcadlike discovering the unix command line
17:39.41Axiosokay
17:39.54brlcadthe tutorials help with that to a great extent at least for mged
17:40.09brlcadbut like I said, there are over 400 tools that comprise brl-cad
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17:40.23Axiosokay
17:40.27brlcadthere is a new modeler in development now (actually two) that will be much more "familiar" to you
17:40.41Axioswhat are they?
17:40.45brlcadso keep an eye out for them.. "archer" is the first you'll likely hear about
17:41.18brlcadgui-based solid modeling
17:41.47Axiosare they open source?
17:42.07brlcadAxios: for a quick mged look-see, type "make sph sph" into the command window and then type "rt -F/dev/Xl -s1024"
17:42.46brlcader, you'll have to open a database first too.. "opendb test.g" before those two if you haven't already
17:43.20AxiosError: A database is not open!
17:43.28brlcadyeah, type "opendb test.g"
17:43.58brlcador click on File -> New...
17:44.30Axiosnice
17:44.40Axioswhere does it save the picture?
17:44.56Axiosit exits when its done
17:45.08brlcadthat rt command basically said to render it to a lingering X11 window
17:45.20brlcadyou can render to a file as well with other options
17:45.38brlcadFile -> Raytrace is the gui control panel for that same thing
17:47.05brlcadAxios: something more interesting to look at is http://db.brlcad.org/geometry/havoc.g
17:47.23Axiosthis is special
17:47.49Axiosi tried ctrl-z and the sphere starts rotating
17:47.59brlcadyep
17:48.03Axiosthe more z's the faster
17:48.13brlcadX and Y will do the other axes :)
17:48.21brlcadhit 0 to stop it
17:48.33brlcad3 for a standard view
17:48.59brlcadt for top, l for left, r for right, f for front
17:49.18Axiosokay
17:49.37Axiosis it possible render it and take a spin around it?
17:49.40brlcadthe rotation control actually hooks into old SGI knob devices that were used in modeling "back in the early 80's"
17:49.55brlcadit is possible, but not trivial to set up
17:50.06brlcadthe animation capabilities are very mathematical
17:50.18Axiosbrlcad has a lot of history
17:50.52brlcadto give you an idea of the animation, there's a paper on the website: http://brlcad.org/reports/tr-313/index.html
17:51.10brlcadyes, it does .. longer than most
17:51.26Axiosbrlcad: how long have you been using it?
17:51.32brlcadone of the fastest solid model raytracers too (read, non-surface only)
17:52.11brlcadoh, lesse -- not as long as some of the other guys
17:52.41brlcad7 or 8 years maybe 
17:52.50Axiosokay
17:52.58brlcadstarted out modeling, then developing
17:53.03AxiosI just found it on freshmeat today
17:53.08brlcadi'm by no means one of the expert modelers of it though
17:53.15Axiosokay
17:53.16brlcadthey are just amazing how they can use it
17:53.27brlcadthe geometry just flows from their fingers
17:53.31Axioshehe
17:53.51Axiosim a student at a university in Denmark
17:53.54brlcadit's a different style of modeling, being a csg-centric modeler
17:53.59brlcadahh, okay
17:54.11Axiosat the university, the use solidworks, but I hate using the mouse all of the time
17:54.24brlcadhehe, well then!
17:54.34Axiosyou cant work with that program for hours, you would brake your hand
17:54.45brlcadbrl-cad is definitely probably up your alley ;)
17:54.49Axiosor rather wrist
17:55.10brlcadi understand :)
17:55.39Axiosits just a little hard to understand what brlcad can and cannot do
17:55.50brlcadi learned out to drive a mouse with my left hand to deal with my pain (i'm not left handed)
17:56.07Axioswhat is your proffesion?
17:56.28brlcadAxios: well, in broad strokes it's easy to describe what brl-cad is well and ill suited for
17:56.37AxiosI use a trackball, so its not all that bad, but the accurasy isnt good for those programs
17:56.57brlcadi'm a software developer .. official title is a bit winded
17:57.15brlcada head up brl-cad's open source developments
17:57.25brlcadi use a trackball with my left hand ;)
17:57.33Axiosdo the make those?
17:57.42brlcadsure
17:57.46brlcadtake the trackball
17:57.53brlcadput it under your left hand
17:57.55brlcad:)
17:58.05Axiosoh no, you cant be serius
17:58.16brlcadwhat kind of trackball do you have?
17:58.20Axiosyou control it with your litle finger?
17:58.30Axiosa logitech trackman
17:58.45brlcadahh, a trackman
17:58.59brlcadthose don't work so well
17:59.26brlcadthe logitec marble mouse should work fine
17:59.27Axiosyou use one of those with the ball in the middle?
17:59.32brlcadbut my preference
18:00.08brlcadhttp://www.kensington.com/html/1121.html
18:00.26brlcadthe expert mouse pro is great for cad (and gaming)
18:00.44brlcad11 configurable buttons
18:00.55brlcadworks left/right handed
18:01.02AxiosI see
18:01.14brlcadand you can take that ball out and throw it at your friends
18:01.15Axiosno unix support?
18:01.25brlcadsure is
18:01.42brlcadthat's one of the oldest most popular trackballs
18:02.05brlcadthe cheaper suitable alternative: http://www.kensington.com/html/2200.html
18:02.14Axiosokay, I thought logitech was the only company that made trackballs
18:03.40Axiosdo you rotate the ball with you palm
18:03.44Axios?
18:04.05brlcadno, it sits in your fingers
18:04.21brlcadslightly on the top of the palm
18:04.47Axiosmust try one of thoose some day
18:04.47brlcadso you have subtle side to side hand jestures for moving the ball
18:04.58brlcadliek if you sweep a desk with your fingers
18:05.13AxiosI see
18:05.35Axiosthat gave a nice picture
18:06.05brlcadthe ball's the same size and similar weight as a pool ball too, so you can drop an 8 ball in there for nice effect :)
18:06.23Axiosdoes it work?
18:06.29brlcadsure
18:06.29Axioswith an 8 ball?
18:06.32Axiosnice
18:07.10Axiosare there a site, where I can see some pictures and/or animations done with brlcad?
18:08.01Axiosthe ones on brlcad.org are small, and not at all as interesting as the tanks in the pdf files ;)
18:08.06brlcadthere's a couple here http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
18:08.55brlcadi've got a more to uplaod at some point too
18:09.05AxiosI like the old one, in the middle
18:09.12Axiosokay
18:09.26Axiosoh, its the author right+
18:09.27Axios?
18:09.30Axiosor one of them
18:09.45brlcadthat's the original author -- mike muuss back in the 80's
18:10.00Axiosoaky
18:10.47brlcada better screenshot: http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg
18:11.12Axiosit could be reel cool, if there were some pictures of something extreme
18:11.26Axiosso that you could get an ideo of the limits of the program
18:11.28brlcadthere are lots of those
18:11.37brlcadmost of them are classified or sensitive :)
18:11.52Axiosthe one you just linked to seems pretty basic
18:12.04brlcadthey are
18:12.14Axiosdoes the army still use brlcad, or are they switching?
18:13.18brlcadit's still very much used
18:13.25Axiosokay
18:13.37Axioswell, thanks a lot for the help
18:13.41brlcadhere's an example model that was rendered in a different light pass: http://db.bzflag.bz/tmp/humvee.png
18:14.03Axiosnice!!
18:14.10brlcadby different light pass, I mean not through rt
18:14.52AxiosI have to learn brlcad now
18:15.09Axiosbefore I was more sceptical(or how its spelled)
18:15.28Axiossorry, wrong channel
18:15.31brlcad:)
18:15.48Axiosthats an example of danish
18:15.55brlcadi figured :)
18:16.26Axiosi just posted the pictures to some friends, and said I had to learn brlcad now
18:16.53Axiosthanks again for the help
18:17.10brlcadanother example: http://db.bzflag.bz/tmp/bradley.png
18:17.20Axioshow much time would you gees, that they spend on that humvee?
18:17.40brlcadnot as good a render
18:17.49brlcadbut more detail
18:18.17brlcadoh, I couldn't say how long it took to make it
18:18.28Axiosoh, its for bzflag
18:18.36brlcadit's not
18:18.43brlcadi just happen to be a bz dev too
18:18.50Axioshehe
18:18.51brlcadand I own that domain name
18:19.04Axioswheres .bz?
18:19.25brlcadBelize :)
18:19.36brlcad~bz
18:19.37ibotbz is probably Belize
18:19.53Axiosyoure from there, or just own the domain?
18:19.58brlcadjust own the domain
18:20.12brlcadit's conveniently the same suffix
18:20.28Axiosyeah
18:20.29brlcad~da
18:20.32Axiosnice touch
18:20.36brlcad~.da
18:20.43Axios.dk
18:20.48brlcad~dk
18:20.50ibotmethinks dk is Denmark
18:21.20AxiosI think you have to be a danish citisen to buy .dk's
18:23.29Axiosbrlcad: if you had to gues on how long i takes to make a humvee like that, what would it be?
18:24.42brlcadit's really dependant upon the modelers skills.. in one of the expert modelers hands probably a week or two
18:24.57brlcadthe missing detail is that all of the insides are there too
18:25.05brlcadthe engine, the cables, the seats, etc
18:26.32Axioshow about just the outside shell?
18:27.01brlcadoh something that simple?
18:27.05Axiosjep
18:27.09Axiosyeah
18:27.12brlcadin a couple days maybe
18:27.28Axios14 hours of work?
18:27.30brlcadgetting the information simply input takes time
18:27.42brlcadit's possible
18:28.52Axiosis brlcad faster than using inventor or solidworks if you are experienced?
18:28.59Axiosequally experienced
18:29.30AxiosI must say, im very impressed with brlcad
18:30.18brlcadoh, i'm sure if you're equally experienced in those tools and you had the information, you could model in about the same amount of time
18:30.29brlcadespecially for a surface model only
18:30.42brlcadwhich a brl-cad model rarely ever is
18:31.42brlcadthe bigger benefit we can also tout is being able to perform signature (i.e. full penetration) analyses on models in general
18:31.56Axiosokay
18:31.59brlcadlike tell what kinds of geometry are on a given path, and answer that question very quickly
18:32.42Axiosin solidworks you can get it to tell you the mass, and momentums and such
18:32.51Axioscan you do the same with brlcad?
18:33.31brlcadyes, you can -- though not through mged
18:33.46brlcadrtweight and nirt are good for that
18:35.44Axiosits nice that its open source
18:35.59Axiosso if you really needed something extra, you could make it
18:37.09brlcadyep
18:37.12brlcadthat's the idea
18:37.19brlcadwe're the only open source solid modeler
18:37.32Axiosis the whole of brlcad open source, or are there still a large portion that is closed?
18:37.33brlcadwith millions already invested and an existing user-base
18:37.46brlcadall of brl-cad was open sourced
18:37.55Axiosits amazing
18:38.19AxiosI thought that there werent any god open source cad tools at all
18:38.20brlcadthere are components that were under development that weren't "brought under the umbrella" of brl-cad just yet
18:38.32brlcadthose should eventually get merged in, though (like archer)
18:39.01brlcadwell, you might not think it's as good as you hope after you're on page 300 of the tutorial :)
18:39.32Axiosbecause theres so much to learn?
18:39.48Axiosand yeah, you have to read endless materials
18:42.11Axiosbut when youre done with it all, you can do more than you ever could with one of the other cads?
18:42.30brlcadthere's a lot to learn
18:42.38brlcada lot of commands and tools
18:43.04brlcadit's geared towards analysis needs specifically too, with very little investment in making a pretty shiny user interface
18:43.09AxiosI like using commands, they are totally precise, I hate that dragging and dropping
18:43.23AxiosI can see
18:43.48brlcadin fact, mged's origins actually had no gui
18:43.59Axiosbut like everything else, beauty is only skin deep
18:44.43Axioswell, I have a lot of reading to do
18:45.11Axiosand thanks again
18:45.35Axiosoh one last question
18:45.42Axioswhy did they open source it?
18:46.29brlcadthey are
18:46.36brlcadi fought for 5 years to get it open sourced
18:46.41brlcadit was not easy at all
18:47.22Axiosdo you work in the military?
18:47.59brlcade-mail after e-mail to the lawyers, to various levels of management, others
18:48.05brlcadmeetings after meetings :)
18:48.30Axiosi love the open source revolution
18:48.34brlcadI can't really say that here, if you visit MD I'd be happy to answer in person :)
18:49.01AxiosI think i get the point
18:50.03brlcadit was open sourced for lots of reasons
18:50.53brlcadthe administrative overhead of the closed-source license agreement that brl-cad had before was rather burdensome
18:51.18brlcadyou've actually been able to get brl-cad (including source code) since it was first released
18:52.03brlcadyou would have to get a form, fill it out, mail/fax it back.. wait for an approval process, wait for a decryption key to get mailed back to you, download or get sent the software, decrypt it, install it
18:52.12Axiosso a lot of not military people have used brlcad?
18:52.21brlcadit was a pain in the rear for users that just want something to download
18:52.31brlcadyeah, a lot of universities and businesses
18:52.32Axiosyeag
18:52.42Axiosi never heard about it
18:53.00Axiosis it good for collision simulations and such?
18:53.22brlcadit's used in codes that do that
18:53.23Axioswere you able to use brlcad for buisness, before it got open sourced?
18:53.39brlcadsure
18:54.24Axioswell im off
18:54.33brlcadit was basically similar terms as the LGPL license _except_ that you were prohibited form redistributing brl-cad (i.e. you had to come to us to get it, fill out the form, etc)
18:54.46Axiosokay
18:54.58Axiosso there wasnt not much difference
18:55.02brlcadso going open source was just an easy simplification in a way
18:55.11Axiosyeah
18:55.17brlcadit's a huge difference to development
18:55.21Axiosare there other projects like this?
18:55.23Axiosyeah
18:55.29brlcadbut mainly because it's so mcuh easier to collaborate now
18:55.31Axiosyou are a lot more free
18:55.36brlcadfor new developers to get directly involved
18:55.44brlcadfor new features to get added
18:55.49Axiosso brlcad is gonna change a lot?
18:56.10brlcadoh, we'll see what happens :)
18:56.19brlcadthere are core values that are protected by the core devs
18:56.30Axiosits hard to build something like a cad system that is open source from scratch
18:56.33brlcadbut there are also long-term improvement goals
18:56.38brlcadit is
18:56.45brlcadpeople don't realize that at all
18:56.56Axiosalmost impossible
18:57.01brlcadthe reason unigraphics and pro/E and solid works can charge so much
18:57.07brlcadthey've invested millions
18:57.12Axiosyeah
18:57.20Axioson physics and matematics
18:57.25Axiosprogrammers
18:57.31brlcadif you think about even the time in brl-cad .. 20 years with a team of 5-10 directly/specifically working on brl-cad
18:57.31Axiosnone of thoose are cheap to hire
18:57.46brlcaddo the math on their salaries alone and you start seeing the $$$
18:57.53Axiosyeah
18:58.24brlcadyes, and the math and computer science skills needed.. not an everyday hacker
18:58.28Axiosmost big open source projects start of with something thats already semi done
18:58.50Axiosand then it just get polished and beautiful
18:59.05Axiosall the errors get out of the code, with time
18:59.15brlcadbeatiful is in the eye of the (sometimes twisted) beholder, but yes, I agree ;)
18:59.25Axioslol
19:00.02brlcadit's a slow continual improvement usually
19:00.34Axiosyou probadly would be cut of, of all your social relations, if you talk about beaty and computers
19:00.34brlcadnot as fast as funded, but it's continual -- like the tortoise vs. rabbit parable
19:00.47brlcad:)
19:01.02Axiostortoise vs. rabbit
19:01.14brlcadwell if you run into anything ugly in brl-cad, feel free to drop me a line or post it up on the website
19:01.30brlcadyou can make feature requests and post bugs up on sf.net
19:01.42Axiosim not good at programming
19:01.43Axiosyet
19:01.46brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640805
19:02.06brlcadthere's plenty to do that does not involve programming :)
19:02.30brlcadheck even if you just learn how to model and make suggestions for improvement, that's very useful ;)
19:03.06Axiosokay, I will certainly learn to model
19:03.26Axiosif not I get a headecke whilst reading the manual
19:03.32brlcad:)
19:03.56brlcadyou might want to just jump to the glossaries and command indices at the end from time to time and just poke around
19:04.09Axiosyeah
19:04.11brlcadtake a look at that havoc.g if you want a more "full" model
19:04.23Axiosit will take months to learn this system
19:04.32brlcadit's a helicopter model that's decent enough to play with
19:04.34Axioshow do i that?
19:04.42Axioscan i just load it?
19:05.03brlcadyes, File -> Open
19:05.12brlcade havoc
19:05.38brlcadtops   <-- gives a list of top level geometry
19:05.52brlcade [object]  <-- displays some geometry
19:06.12brlcadl [object]  <-- lists what that geometry is or is comprised of
19:06.20brlcadZ  <-- erases the display
19:06.38brlcadwho  <-- tells you what objects you're looking at
19:08.08Axiosi cant find the file..
19:08.08brlcadthere's a glossary of most of the commands at the end of the mged tutorial book
19:08.13Axioshavoc.g
19:08.16brlcadhttp://db.brlcad.org/geometry/havoc.g
19:09.03brlcadyou can get all of the geometry files that are in cvs if you like
19:09.19brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
19:09.23brlcad[no password]
19:09.29brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout brlcad/db
19:11.32brlcadof course you'd have to apt-get cvs if you hadn't already
19:13.20brlcadthe thing about the graphical window that you'll probably find out early in the tutorial is the "shift-grips"  .. pressing shift, alt, etc while click-draggin can do the scaling, translations, zoomings that you're probably used to
19:13.50brlcadthere are command equivalents to all of them as well, of course ;)  (top, front, left, zoom 1.4, etc)
19:15.14Axiosokay
19:15.57Axiosthe window gets messy, if you raytrace in it
19:16.50*** join/#brlcad [Prez|Kennedy] (~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu)
19:17.47Axiosit seems very powerfull
19:18.33brlcadyou used the raytrace control panel?
19:18.51Axiosjust pressed file > raytrace
19:19.16brlcadyes, look on that panel window's menu
19:19.36brlcadFramebuffer -> Overlay
19:19.52brlcadthat will display the image underneath or on top of the wireframe
19:21.08Axioscan i get back to a black background?
19:21.29brlcadthere's an fbclear button on that control panel
19:22.11Axiosbut it doesnt restore to the display I had, before I raytraced it
19:22.41brlcaddid you change the underlay/overlay?
19:22.47Axiosyes
19:23.10Axiosafterwards i did the fbclear
19:23.11brlcadso you have to put it back under and/or turn the framebuffer off
19:23.15Axiosand the screen is blue
19:23.50brlcadthat's the color setting on the control panel
19:23.50brlcad0 0 50
19:23.55Axiosnow i get it
19:24.12brlcadFramebuffer -> Active will turn it on/off
19:24.13Axiosdoes alt + click do anything?
19:24.16Axiosyeah
19:24.21Axiosi can see
19:24.45brlcad"framebuffer" is the thing you render into when you raytrace
19:24.53brlcadit's completely separate from the wireframe
19:25.48Axiosyeah
19:26.24Axiosis it possible to make it solid and rotate it, instead of just the wireframe?
19:26.54brlcadit is, though doing that with the full blown havoc is not recommended
19:27.28Axiosisnt opengl enabled?
19:28.05brlcadit is, but the conversion from solid geometry to opengl triangles takes a few seconds
19:28.13brlcadis your computer "fast"? :)
19:28.14Axiosits fun that games and such get so high performance, while other program doesnt get anything near that
19:28.26Axiosxp 3000+ with an nvidia gfx
19:28.30Axiosso okay fast
19:28.41Axiosbut not a super computer
19:28.46brlcadshould be.. can give it a try
19:28.55brlcadtry something simple first:
19:29.25brlcadfirst go to Misc menu
19:29.36brlcadturn off Z-clipping, turn on Lighting
19:30.29Axioson the havoc?
19:30.39brlcaddoesn't matter
19:31.29Axios<PROTECTED>
19:32.01brlcadthere's more.. hold on
19:32.11brlcadZ
19:32.17brlcadmake sph sph
19:33.30brlcadshaded_mode 2
19:34.28brlcadmy bad, turn z-clipping back on
19:34.40brlcadB sph
19:34.57brlcadit should show up shaded
19:35.17Axiosnice
19:35.24Axioslooks like a golfball
19:35.37brlcadokay, now B havoc
19:35.46brlcadshould take a few seconds
19:36.22brlcadbtw, the new modeler does this all by default so there's no delays etc
19:36.27brlcadmore like a game ;)
19:36.32Axios;)
19:36.40Axioswith opengl support?
19:37.00brlcadopengl is presently required
19:37.07brlcadat least software mode
19:37.24brlcadwhich is pretty much anything made within the last 10 years
19:37.46brlcadhavoc still churning?
19:37.46Axiosit takes some time
19:37.49Axiosjep
19:37.54brlcadheh
19:37.58Axiosbut it isnt takin up cpu...
19:38.44Axiosmged seems a bit frozen
19:39.06brlcadhmmm
19:39.08Axiosa lot actually
19:39.43brlcadthat's odd for sure
19:39.54Axiosi think its broken
19:40.04brlcadcould very well be
19:40.10brlcadkillall mged ..
19:40.28brlcadi'll have to take a look at that
19:40.40Axiosdid it do the same with yours?
19:40.44brlcadshaded_mode is still experimental with mged
19:41.02brlcadyes it did
19:41.07Axiosoh
19:41.13Axiosi love linux
19:41.25brlcadthough it just worked fine the other day on my g5
19:41.29Axiosit doesnt freeze it the apps freeze
19:41.33Axiosnice
19:41.40Axiosit runs on ppc?
19:42.20brlcadbrl-cad runs on just about anything
19:42.20Axioswill it run okay on my 1,2 ghz g4 ibook?
19:42.20brlcadit was designed to scale up to as big as they come (2048 processor origin 3000 anyone?)
19:42.32brlcadand it's history takes it back to very small machines that predate tcp/ip
19:42.45brlcadyes, it'll run on your ibook ;)
19:42.50Axiosnice
19:43.13Axiosit can run on any platform?
19:43.25brlcadpresently mged's an X11 app, though -- I'm hoping to decouple it with aqua tk shortly
19:43.42brlcadpretty much any platform.. the only problematic one is Windows
19:43.47Axiosis there a windows port?
19:43.58brlcadit does actually run on windows, but only a developer release has been made to date
19:44.06Axiosokay
19:44.15Axiosnot that i wanted to use that
19:44.44brlcadthere's been quite a demand for the Windows port for some time .. it's slowly coming along
19:44.50Axiosits impossible to find cad for macs
19:45.00Axiosoh
19:45.09brlcadthere's a good architecture cad program on os x
19:45.19brlcadbut yeah, beyhond that there's not
19:45.19Axiosokay
19:45.35brlcadthat'll soon be remedied ;)
19:45.41Axiosbut im more into mechanical engineering
19:45.46Axios;)
19:46.21brlcadit has to be an aqua or at least X11-less app on OS X for anyone to really take it seriously
19:46.28brlcadfor that platform, that is
19:46.41Axiosi saw someone using it on a mac
19:46.49Axioswith x11
19:46.51brlcadyes, I primarily use it on a mac myself :)
19:46.51Axiosthough
19:46.59Axiosyou use mac osx?
19:47.08brlcadbut of course :)
19:47.33Axiosi bought an ibook 12" for about four weeks ago
19:47.37brlcadas well as linux, bsd, and irix
19:47.45brlcadbut os x is my primary platform
19:47.50Axiosi wanted to use debian-ppc on it
19:47.57Axiosbut im not sure anymore
19:48.01brlcadahh
19:48.11brlcadme and debby have a hate-hate relationship
19:48.16Axiosi hate to say it, but that osx isnt that baad
19:48.35Axioswhat linux do you then use?
19:48.56brlcaddebian gave more porting issues than any other linux mostly due to a busted gnu build system setup in debian stable
19:49.33brlcadI prefer to use gentoo, often have to use red hat, I have debian of late as well
19:49.34Axiosim using debian - testing
19:49.52Axiosoh, i meant unstable
19:49.57brlcadi believe testing has the same misconfiguration
19:49.58Axiosdebian - unstable
19:50.36brlcaddoesn't matter any more -- the build system was changed to accommodate it
19:50.44brlcadbut that's a couple days of my life I'm not getting back :)
19:51.28brlcaddebian gives similar grief from time to time for bzflag development, so I'm a bit biased
19:51.40brlcadand it's only from a dev's perspective
19:52.05brlcadit's fine for a user, the features and apps are fine, the apt package management is nice
19:52.54Axiosvery nice
19:53.11Axiosim thinking about trying ubuntu
19:53.32brlcadhaven't tried that one
19:53.34Axiosthe unstable branch is a bit unstable at times, and testing is to old
19:53.45brlcadI'm _really_ interested in trying out Zeta
19:53.53Axioshavent heard about that one
19:54.22brlcadit's basically rumored to be what's left of BeOS
19:54.56Axiosokay
19:55.15brlcadrumor has been that a german company (yellowtab) were granted the rights to the unreleased BeOS 5,1 before Be was sold to Palm
19:55.29brlcadand they're starting to ship 1.0 this month
19:55.41brlcadhttp://www.yellowtab.com/
19:55.48brlcadnot open source, mind you
19:56.08Axiosoh
19:56.11brlcadbut I was a big fan of the raw features and performance of BeOS back when they were a choice
19:56.13Axiosthink ill skip it then
19:56.24brlcadheh :)
19:57.14brlcadthere are things that BeOS could do on my old Pentium that I can barely do on my best Linux and Mac workstations
19:57.25Axioswow
19:57.38Axiosi though beos was ppc, with their bebox
19:57.54brlcadthat was one of their first products
19:58.04brlcadthey expanded shortly after that
19:58.27brlcadbebox was eventually killed, and they started giving away all but their pro version of the operating system
19:58.56Axiosk
20:00.42Axioshope they go broke and open source it then
20:01.29brlcadBeOS was bankrupt by M$ years ago
20:01.38brlcadPalm bought up Be's remaining assest
20:02.08brlcadBe later sued MS and settled for over 23 million
20:02.30brlcadyellowtab is what remains
20:02.52brlcadthey can't open source it, because of the code's origins
20:03.31brlcadthere are proprietary codes that are part of the core OS that make that a practical impossibility without someone getting sued or going to jail
20:03.50Axiosthats the nasty software world
20:03.53brlcadpart of why BeOS performed so well was those special codes
20:04.02brlcadyep
20:04.24Axiosthey are probadly gonna allow software patents in europe
20:04.26brlcadthere are like a dozen forked open source projects in BeOS's name/style
20:04.39brlcadOpenBeOS, for example
20:05.02Axiosand you can brake one of those, by contributing to open source, with out even knowing it
20:05.16Axiosokay
20:05.45Axiosso you could become a criminal without even knowing it
20:05.56Axiosheh, just by using double clicks in your program
20:06.33brlcadheh
20:07.09brlcadthere's a place for both of them, but I sure am glad to see open source win out most of the time
20:07.49Axiospatents are the worst
20:08.02Axioscopyright is alright
20:08.12brlcadcopyright is a pita
20:08.21brlcadthat was our biggest hurdle to going open source
20:08.35brlcadthat issue alone took over a year to resolve
20:08.54Axioswhat does pita mean?
20:08.57brlcadwell, maybe not the "biggest" .. but it was close
20:09.00brlcad~pita
20:09.01ibotpita is probably pain in the ass
20:09.11Axiosyeah
20:10.32brlcadit's even more complicated when you start considering international multi-author projects and codes developed by governments
20:10.59brlcadin the US, the Gov't is the single largest "entity", pretty much the single largest business
20:11.17brlcadyet the laws are very complicated with respect to copyright
20:11.47brlcadsince there are no "copy rights" by default for Gov't-generated works to tax payers of that Gov't
20:12.17brlcadthere are internationally where recognized, and there are through assignment
20:12.28Axiosits the same in denmark
20:12.56Axiosthe goverment in denmark is a lot larger in ratio to citisents than the us
20:13.07brlcadall very boring that basically boils down to being a major pita when you want to open source Gov't software (where it could be encouraged in the first place)
20:13.07Axioswe are socialliberal in denmark
20:13.12Axiosabout half/half
20:13.40Axiosi think open source is going to be a problem for the us
20:13.44AxiosUS
20:14.46Axiossoftware is the biggest export fra USA, right?
20:15.03brlcadBRL-CAD isn't the first per-se, but I can probably count on one hand how many there have been from the army
20:15.10Axiosfra = from
20:16.38Axiosbut if the public pay for you to produce the software, in some sence, it have to be in a public license
20:17.13brlcadanother big one is GRASS GIS from the core of engineers, they got around the copyright problem by just public domaining it and then schools picked it up in italy/germany that later converted it to open source
20:17.28brlcadsure, but only to the public that pays
20:17.42brlcadwhich is why that is tricky for international projects
20:17.46Axiosyeah, i know what you mean
20:17.53Axiosthe internet works globally
20:17.54brlcadthat's what brl-cad was .. anyone could get it, could get the source -- for free
20:18.11brlcadthat doesn't make it "open source" in the OSI definition terms though
20:18.39brlcadand it was copyright in all countries except the U.S.
20:18.49Axiosoh
20:19.22brlcadwe were only able to open source it the way we did because we were able to acquire the copyright in the US as well
20:19.51brlcadthat's in-part a weakness of the GNU licenses
20:20.01brlcadthey are all based on copyright law
20:20.20brlcadif you cannot claim copyright, you cannot enforce the license terms
20:20.41brlcadthey need to make licenses that are based on contract law (they can even be the same terms)
20:22.43Axiosdoes the army take patents on some of its software?
20:23.23brlcadjust like any other corporate entity they "can"
20:23.43brlcadany gov't office can
20:23.57brlcadthere's just limited benefit to do so
20:24.14brlcadsince the government doesn't make money that way
20:24.50Axiosi have been in the US once
20:24.55brlcadsame for trademarks
20:25.15brlcadthough trademarks are useful to protect name ownership
20:25.37brlcadlike I said, I had to fight it for 5 years :)
20:25.46Axiosi believe
20:25.47Axiosyou
20:26.25brlcadi had to understand the gpl, copyright law, contract law, international implications inside out or it wouldn't have happened
20:27.06brlcadup to early last year, the answer was "it's impossible -- that could never happen."
20:27.13brlcad"BRL-CAD cannot be open sourced"
20:27.17brlcadand here we are
20:28.14Axioslol
20:28.18Axiosnicely done
20:29.22brlcadcan't take all of the credit, I had to get a lot of guy-in support from various levels of managemnet
20:29.40brlcadand the rest of the dev team itself (which was the easiest of all, of course)
20:30.14AxiosColumbo is comming on
20:30.19brlcadwell, time to let my dog outside
20:30.42Axiosso now im gonna go off
20:30.45Axios;)
20:30.48brlcadfeel free to idle in here, or come back later, or whatever  anywtime
20:31.09Axiosokay
20:31.21brlcadi read the channel log if I'm not around too, so you can drop questions and private message me an e-mail if you want an answer and you don't idle
20:50.03Axiosthis episode of columbo is as old as brlcad ;)
20:50.16Axiosor older, its from 78
21:11.09brlcadthat'd be older :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050410

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050410

00:07.31*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
00:19.01dan_falcknarnia: hi terry. how was your week?
01:30.15*** join/#brlcad goliche (~~@200.21.125.76)
01:30.42*** part/#brlcad goliche (~~@200.21.125.76)
01:50.09narniadan_falck, you still here?
01:50.43narniadan_falck, knock, knock, you home?
01:53.26brlcadwho's there
01:57.05dan_falcknarnia: hello
01:57.12dan_falckbrlcad: hello
01:57.58dan_falckI'm taking my family out for dinner... talk to you guys later on
01:57.59brlcadhowdy
01:58.05brlcadcya
02:09.00narniabrlcad, so how has  your weekend been so far?
02:09.36brlcadunproductive unfortunately, but good
02:10.11brlcadplayed Diablo 2 for 6 hours on Friday, that's been the highlight so far along with some Mac binary release progress
02:10.15narniawell i took a break from debugging express2html and began cutting down a box elder tree.
02:11.03narniain between cutting the tree down i have been attempting to get the tractor started.
02:12.28narniai think either the ignition switch or the starter motor solenoid is bad. if i jumper around the solenoid the engine turns over.
02:13.17narnianeed the tractor to pull the wagon to haul the limbs to the burn pile. funny how that works. ;-)
02:13.54brlcad:)
02:14.20brlcadso splitting wood for sale? for winter? just to clean up the tree?
02:14.24narniacutting a tree down with one good arm sucks btw.
02:14.52brlcadof just burning it all up
02:16.39narniaold box elder tree. probably fifty years old. big trunk. 10 ft tall. in august when the northern illinois steam power show is held we have a steam powered sawmill. i will take the trunk there to be sawn into boards.
02:17.01narniathe larger limbs are firewood for the fireplace.
02:17.53narniathe small stuff is for the burn pile. actually thinking of burning them where the garden will be planted. the old slash and burn method of gardening.
02:19.23narniathe upper part of the tree was hit by lightning so the tree is dying.
02:20.33narniaan upper 10 in diameter limb is blown part in the middle. it is sagging down on other limbs.
02:21.52narniabtw, no i am not using an axe. i am using an electric reciprocating saw. with a 18in saw blade.
02:22.47narniausing a chain saw one-handed is not recommended. ;-)
02:26.14narnialast year i lost a 75 yr old maple tree in a storm. i have enough finished maple boards to build new kitchen cabinets, a pantry, and a maple hardwood floor. i gave half of the maple to the kingston saw mill for sawing the tree up.
02:27.10narniathat maple tree was heavy. had to get a crane to pick it up and put it on the flat bed trailer.
02:27.58narniathe useable trunk sections totaled close to 5 tons.
02:28.32brlcadgood use of an old dying tree
02:30.04narniai cried when i saw the maple tree up rooted. it was a large beautiful shade tree.
02:30.55narniai did not cut that one up. i let the saw mill guys with their two man chain saws cut it up.
02:32.32narniathe steam saw mill has a 3ft diameter circular saw blade. will saw through the toughest oak with ease.
02:34.36narniahave to slow the carriage down a bit but oak is no problem.
02:35.12brlcadi can imagine
02:37.36narniaThe Northern Illinois Steam Power Club http://www.threshingbee.org/
02:38.40narniahttp://www.threshingbee.org/sawmill.html
02:39.20narniahere is our pride and joy. http://www.threshingbee.org/corliss.html
02:40.15narniathe flywheel is huge. Flywheel:                 8 Tons
02:40.27brlcadcool
02:40.39brlcadmine is about 3 pounds ;)
02:41.00brlcadnot the flywheel, either..  ;)
02:48.40narniai have wanted to build a small steam engine but never have gotten around to it.
02:51.37narniayou have a steam power show out by you.
02:52.03narniaEastern Shore Threshermen & Collectors Association, Inc. http://www.threshermen.org/index.htm
02:52.13narniaFederalsburg, Maryland, USA
03:27.57narniathat is a good show when i lived in laurel maryland.
04:54.49[Prez|Kennedy]talk Twingy... talk!!
04:59.26Twingywhy
04:59.32TwingyI'm tired.
05:00.11[Prez|Kennedy]im watching mystery science theater
05:00.12[Prez|Kennedy]:)
05:00.25Twingystatic test firing at 8am, tearing down neighbors shed, tearing down fence, planting grass, running to home depot, pouring gravel, shoveling dirt, running 2 miles, on 3 hours of sleep, makes you kinda tired
05:00.41Twingyhere's a pic
05:00.50Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/rocket_motor.jpg
05:00.50[Prez|Kennedy]ok
05:00.55Twingythursday mornings static test
05:01.13[Prez|Kennedy]cool
05:01.24Twingy~150lbs of thrust
05:02.01[Prez|Kennedy]how long did it last?
05:02.15Twingythe burn on thursday mornings test lasted 1.1 seconds
05:02.28Twingythis mornings test lasted 0.6 seconds with the ignition on the bulk head end this time
05:02.34Twingythe thrust output was ~200lbs I think
05:02.40Twingyit's an "I" class motor
05:02.54Twingywhich is 320 - 640 newton seconds of specific impulse
05:02.58Twingymine is about 550 N-s
05:03.16[Prez|Kennedy]would you call it a successful test?
05:03.21Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/rocket/new/DSCN0602.JPG
05:03.23Twingyyes, entirely
05:03.26TwingyI have a video
05:03.39Twingyonce I finish the log entry for the 2 tests I'll give you the link
05:03.45Twingyprobly sometime later this week
05:03.50[Prez|Kennedy]ok
05:03.52TwingyI've got a mountain of data to churn
05:03.56[Prez|Kennedy]haha
05:04.21Twingythis motor is significantly more powerful than the one stephen went out with me for
05:04.37TwingyI ignite it via my r/c plane controller
05:04.44Twingyusing a servo and a receiver
05:04.50Twingythat way I can ignite it from 400 feet back
05:05.04[Prez|Kennedy]you dont wanna get toasted if somethin goes wrong afterall
05:05.25Twingyyep
05:05.29TwingyI triple checked the math
05:05.31Twingybefore I tested the motor
05:05.36Twingyand everything checked out
05:05.42Twingyand so far both static test firings are 100% successful
05:05.50Twingythis is a powerful motor
05:06.00Twingyshould put my rocket about 2,500 feet up
05:06.17Twingyin about 1 second
05:06.29TwingyI'd guess it'll be traveling around 500 mph
05:07.29Twingymy next motor should excede mach-1
05:07.35Twingy*exceed
05:07.42[Prez|Kennedy]cool
05:07.47[Prez|Kennedy]will it make a sonic boom or anything?
05:08.07Twingyno, but you'll hear a distinct difference in the sound
05:08.22Twingymore of a warble sound
05:08.26Twingyinstead of a woosh sound
05:08.35[Prez|Kennedy]itll make a wiish sound
05:08.48Twingymore like a choppy warble / woosh sound
05:08.55Twingyit's choppy
05:09.07Twingywww.mdrocketry.org
05:09.11Twingylook at some of those rocket videos
05:09.14Twingyfrom "Mach Maddness"
05:09.20Twingyand then some that aren't mach
05:09.24[Prez|Kennedy]ok
05:09.25Twingyyou'll hear the difference
05:09.37TwingyI'm off to bed
05:09.43Twingygoing to NJ tommorrow morning
05:09.43[Prez|Kennedy]g'night!
05:09.59[Prez|Kennedy]ive been there... went to Newark
05:10.38TwingyI've been there too
05:10.46Twingy1982 - 2002 :)
05:10.48[Prez|Kennedy]at 3 AM?
05:10.51[Prez|Kennedy]oh
05:10.52[Prez|Kennedy]:-p
05:10.52Twingyyes, 3am :)
05:11.12Twingylater
05:11.15[Prez|Kennedy]adios!
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15:56.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: improvement that allows the script to work with NFS mounted home directories, defaulting to try making the package in /tmp. if an existing package exists, they are warned now and asked if they want to delete it.
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20:43.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: spell version right
20:54.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: improvement to set the background image, find the alternate pkg dir in /tmp, and create a sparse dmg image instead of a fixed-size dmg.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050411

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050411

00:52.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: a pkg in the build directory takes precedence over one in /tmp
02:51.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: copy the package from /tmp to the build directory when we're done making it
04:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/background.png: initial disk image background image for Finder window on mount
04:38.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/README: initial README that describes the contents of this directory
04:39.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Makefile.am: add README and background.png
04:43.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/ (2 files in 2 dirs): update the logo to add a halo effect for emphasis/clarity around 'BRL-CAD'
05:08.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: add the trailing slash for cp so that the contents are copied instead of the whole dir
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13:54.36narniahappy happy joy joy found the problem with express2html.
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18:32.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h include/machine.h src/rt/do.c src/rt/viewedge.c): add explicit build support for sparc64
18:34.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed compilation support for Sparc 64
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20:12.41narniathe dog ate the network cable again. ;-)
20:16.54brlcadgood thing they're cheap
20:17.00brlcadand don't have much current :)
20:21.24narniai have been splicing it back together. using 3m ur-2 telco connectors. soon it will not be long enough to splice anymore. have a 50 ft one but it does not work and i do not have a cable tester.
20:22.19narniahuck, never ate notwork cables. for some reason tom sawyer likes cables.
20:22.42narniaperhaps a copper deficientcy. ;-)
20:28.10brlcador a plastic deficiency? ;)
20:28.19brlcaddoes he chew up shoes too?
20:28.39narniano
20:29.06narniahe did eat my cloth slippers.
20:30.07narniastorms are coming this way. nice pre-storm breeze and it smells of rain.
20:34.22narniahe does like to eat socks. yesterday i decapitated my one stars wars action figure. hans solo is now headless.
20:34.33narnias/i/he/
21:27.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: show how far along we are in the configuration process
21:28.05brlcadjust wants a lil fiber in his diet too ;)
22:10.03*** join/#brlcad Li (lieven@d51A5A564.access.telenet.be)
22:20.20brlcadhello Li
22:23.26Lihello brlcad
22:25.05brlcadgot to be pretty late over in .be land ;)
22:25.50Linot too bad. Nights are great to do work, no distraction ;))
22:26.25LiHow are things?
22:26.27brlcadcheers to that!
22:26.45brlcadgoing pretty good actually
22:27.26brlcadworking on cleaning up the binary build kit support so that releases can be more automated
22:27.42brlcadthat'll be a blessing given how frequent we're planning on releasing updates
22:28.00Lihow frequent would that be?
22:28.44brlcadWe're on a monthly iteration release cycle now
22:29.02brlcadso once a month
22:29.28brlcaddaily snapshots will likely get set up eventually too, but those will be part of the testing suite, not the sf.net file release system
22:29.47LiWow, I don't deal with binary builds too much because I believe you don't do Linux ppc ones.
22:30.07brlcadhmm.. we could
22:30.17brlcadi have linuxppc on my notebook
22:30.54brlcador maybe I could entice you to maintain the ppc linux port =)
22:31.11Liexcellent. we are few and far between. I run this on ibook2
22:31.55brlcadI do dual boot the puppy, though :)
22:32.14brlcadtried running it on the dual g5 but the fan problem still isn't worked out
22:32.15LiI am not a developer so my knowledge of maintaining a build would require quite a bit of training (I think)  I am simply a user with some knowledge of computers
22:33.04LiI dual boot too but only to watch DVDs which I can not do under Linux
22:33.34LiI am looking at an upgrade but am unsure what to get next.  
22:33.40brlcadi don't mind training :)
22:34.13brlcadmm.. for the upgrade are you sticking with ppc?
22:34.33brlcadif so, you might want to wait until after wwdc in case there's any new hardware announced (2 months)
22:35.08Liwell, I would like to because I adore the architecture but I am having problems with finding converters for DWG into dxf for ppc
22:35.34Lithanks for the tip
22:37.41Librlcad, is there a convenient way of putting dimensions on models in brlcad?
22:42.43Liooh, is that the time? I must go.  I will think about the ppc maintenance (and it will depend on my upgrade).  Till soon.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050412

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050412

01:34.12*** join/#brlcad cad911 (~44176e6f@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:04.15brlcadhello cad911
03:32.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (make_dmg.sh make_pkg.sh): ensure the environment by overriding the path, the locale, and the umask. search for a suitable tmpdir.
04:01.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: add openUp as a dmg target dependency, automatically edit the ReadMe and Welcome rich text Installer documents to set their version automatically.
04:13.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (make_dmg.sh make_pkg.sh): search /usr/sbin too
04:15.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: try to fit on a 250 zip
04:40.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: the engrish was suckish, so make it slightly less suckish
05:31.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: run openUp on the volume so that OS X 10.2 will automatically open the directory in Finder when mounted. while we're at it, make sure a disk with the same name we're trying is not already mounted
05:52.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: screw the .background .. there can be only one
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10:18.14FikrannHello
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16:05.28narniabrlcad, in interfacing the express language library and the part21 step files with brl-cad, what should the end-user be working with; the part21 step file entity instances or the brl-cad database equivalent?
16:46.56*** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org)
16:49.47narniaFikrann, hello again.
16:52.05narniabrlcad, even though i have express2html working i do not think it is needed. exppp (express langauge pretty print) could be used as the bases for a new express language cross-reference program.
16:56.15Fikrannbrlcad, btw, there are some issues with openGL and configure. configure script seems not to set up compiler flags properly, it doesn't add -lGL to link list.
17:00.17FikrannI'm using brlcad 7.2.2 on Ubuntu .. I'll tell you what where exactly the problem shows up when I get make rolling again.
17:03.07FikrannFrom ./configure:
17:03.10FikrannOpen GL support ......................: yes
17:15.25FikrannInteresting... I unpacked the program again, run ./configure && make .. and this time it went okay. o.o
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17:31.53Fikrannwb narnia
17:46.35narniabrlcad, the reason i say that is that exppp prints out an express schema without re-parsing the file. express2html, on the other hand uses both the libexpress parser and a second parser. so basically, express2html is parsing the express language file twice. exppp, only parses the express language file once.
17:47.52narniamicrowave links and storms do not play well together.
17:49.03FikrannOuch
17:59.52narniawhen it rains hard the microwave link drops out.
19:31.08AxiosIm beginning to like brlcad
19:37.28narniaAxios, that is a 'good' thing. ;-)
19:42.17Axios;)
19:42.27Axiosdoes alt + click has a funktion?
19:43.01Axiosbecause in my windows manager that makes me pull the window around (totally nice feature)
19:45.11FikrannAxios, if it has, I haven't found it.
19:45.38Axiosok
19:45.45Axiosjust wanted to hear
19:56.18Axiosdelete key is strande
19:56.21Axiosstrange
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20:14.36narniabrlcad, have you had any time and/or chance to scan in any of 10303 parts? i am interested specifically in part203.
20:43.34brlcadFikrann: hrm.. that's rather odd .. did the libGL test fail?  if you send me your config.log (or take a peek) I can look into that
20:44.31brlcadFikrann: automatic opengl detection is still being worked on.. but it should at least be adding the -lGL now..  ;-)  maybe a priority issue
20:45.27brlcadnarnia, I have not yet, though I did schedule some time to test the pdf scanner .. i'll make 203 my test case then (or at least some of it)
20:45.30Fikrannbrlcad, no, it went nicely
20:46.27FikrannI had all libraries and header files installed .. In fact I've been compiling oGL stuff just before I tried to install brl.
20:48.08brlcadAxios: glad to hear it =)  questions?
20:48.31brlcadAxios: the keys are configurable (though I forget the .mgedrc magic that binds them)
20:49.12brlcadFikrann: but you say it didn't add -lGL?
20:49.27brlcadthat implies that the libGL test failed or a "better" library was chosen before it
20:51.20FikrannNo, it didn't add -lGL, had to force it with --with-libs=GL
20:51.28narniabrlcad, that will be fine. i am still testing and mulling over different ideas concerning the libexpress library. i still do not like the idea of writing 10303 ap specific parsers.
20:52.14brlcadFikrann: can you look into your config.log file and see what happened during the -lGL test?
20:52.26brlcadwithout using --with-libs option
20:52.46brlcadnarnia: what don't you like about that?
20:53.03brlcadisn't that the idea?  you write a parser for 203 .. another for 214
20:55.51narniabrlcad, in my mind part203 should just be treated like modules are in perl. instead of perl we are dealing with express language.
20:56.17brlcadso sort of a mega parser for all things step
20:56.26brlcadthat could get very complicated.. :)
20:56.34brlcadvery quickly
20:57.45narniabrlcad, we 'see' a part21 step file which is 10303-203. we pull in the part203 short or long form and parse the part21 step file.
20:58.35brlcadi still haven't quite grasped the point of having both a short and long form
20:58.42brlcadshouldn't the long form be sufficient?
20:58.49narniabrlcad, the current method is build a parser on top of a parser. the lowest level parser is the express language parser and next level is the ap parser.
20:58.52brlcador is the short not a proper subset?
20:59.28Fikrannbtw, you might want to drop -g when compiling with --enable-optimized configure option
21:00.16brlcad--disable-debug does that
21:01.11brlcadthere's often a need to test optimized with debug symbols too, default is simply to "on" unless disabled
21:01.14narniabrlcad, concerning short and long forms for the ap parts i do not understand that either. the best i am able to come up with is if one of the underlying ir's changes using the short form would pull in those changes where as the long form would not. a new long form would have to be generated using shtolo (short-to-long).
21:01.41brlcadFikrann: perhaps you could rerun configure without the with-libs option and send me your config.log file?
21:02.41brlcadnarnia: hrm.. i didn't think the short/long had anything to do with changes
21:03.07brlcadthe long/short are both available from iso in what appeared to be pretty "stable" forms
21:03.08FikrannI'm checking if it'll crash.
21:03.19brlcadif what will crash? :)
21:03.35Fikrannthe build process.
21:03.44brlcadk
21:07.00narniabrlcad, the short form of part203 has several 'use' and 'reference' which 'use' or 'reference' ir's and aic's (part 41,42,43,44,45, etc and 501, 502, etc). the long form of part203 does not. the long form is a 'frozen' snapshot of whatever the ir's and aic's at the time it was created. if part41 changes the part203 long form would have to be generated again.
21:07.55*** join/#brlcad cad533 (~8106210e@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:08.22narniabrlcad, the ir's and aic's are 'shared' between many part2xx. think of the ir's and aic's as include files. the part203 as a specific 'program'.
21:09.00brlcadyeah, I get
21:09.33brlcadsounds like a parser nightmare if the changes are not backwards compatible
21:09.40brlcadhello cad533
21:10.33narniabrlcad, this is definitely true.
21:10.58Fikrannbrlcad, it went okay this time .. I guess it was just a local glitch
21:11.19*** part/#brlcad cad533 (~8106210e@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:11.39brlcadFikrann: you notice if it was a cached result?
21:12.28brlcaddeleting the cache, it should be pretty much deterministic results
21:12.56FikrannHmmm...
21:13.09narniabrlcad, in theory, if any of the ir's or aic's change the specific part 2xx parser may have to change also.
21:13.24brlcadit will tell you, however, whether the cache was used or not
21:13.57brlcadnarnia: to be honest, I would just stick to the long form pushed out by iso and update as/when they update
21:14.49brlcadunless you're looking to take over that project as well and become the defacto source of "the" step parsing suite ;)
21:15.24brlcadwhich is fine.. it's just my goal is pretty much limited to importing/exporting step geometry coming from other cad packages ;)
21:17.10brlcadwhich probably in theory is also limited to pro/e, unigraphics, acis, and solidworks for starters if not just the first two even
21:17.46brlcadfor a first step goal, that is
21:21.20brlcadno pun intended
21:35.28FikrannHmmm .. it seems that gcc-3.4 is generating faster code than gcc-4.0 with the same compiler flags.
21:54.59narniabrlcad, understand.
22:08.00Fikrannbrlcad, where I can find the meaning of the numbers showing up at the end of make benchmark?
22:12.59brlcadFikrann: there's a couple places where the BRL-CAD benchmark is documented .. one of the most recent is on the website under the presentations link under Documents
22:13.41brlcadFikrann: another is the doc/benchmark.tr troff file
22:13.53brlcadthat's better for explaining it in more detail
22:14.41brlcadit's easy enough to describe too: the results are comprised of two lines, an Abs and vgr line
22:15.59brlcadthe Abs line shows your raw performance number for each raytrace test in terms of a number that is rays/s (aka 'rtfm's)
22:16.56brlcadthe vgr line shows you how much faster/slower you are from the base system, which is an old vax 11/780 (where the vgr count is 1.0) .. so you are N times faster than that machine
22:17.33brlcadthe last number on each row is the important one, in particular the last vgr number, as that's your overall average performance metric
22:18.59FikrannYes..
22:19.06brlcadyou can equate that number directly from machine to machine, from version to version, etc to see exactly how well you compare in terms of real end-application performance.  and there are historical values that will show how you compare through time (see how you compare to an 512 processor Origin 3000 for example)
22:19.44Fikrannheh
22:20.05brlcadwe decommissioned our vax about 5 years ago now .. shame too, that beast was interesting
22:21.16brlcadthe historic computing project has a vax in their virtual machine -- I want to set that up for historic regression testing (version to version comparisons)
22:21.55brlcadI got a basic install of NetBSD going on it a couple of years ago and got a compile started.. pretty cool
22:22.33brlcadgetting data in/out of the virtual machine was tricky, though
22:22.49FikrannI guess so ..
22:23.17FikrannEven trickier than from the real thing, I guess.
22:31.27brlcadthat was why the machine had to be decommisioned.. the last remaining disk controller failed and no reasonable means to repair it
22:32.35brlcadthe virtual machine is pretty neat, though.. that got me excited for a bit.. attaching a file to the vm as a device, read from the raw device to transfer data into the vm's filesystem environment (no tcp/ip)
22:33.27brlcadwe could lock-step the vm to the original cpu frequency and should get a vgr count of 1.0
22:36.32Fikrannahh
22:37.50Fikrannbtw, looking at the benchmark.tr .. vapour, wilson and wax had 1024 GB of RAM?
22:41.42brlcadyes, those were the supercomputers of the day
22:42.27brlcadack, GB
22:43.35FikrannAll three has G instead of M .. which makes the amount quite stunning, even in today's terms.
22:47.44brlcadyeah, heh, good eye..
22:47.53brlcadthat was a typo
22:47.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/benchmark.tr: heh, old old typo.. wax,wilson,vapor had a gig of memory, not a terabyte
22:48.32brlcadand those weren't one of the supercomputers.. they were just midsize
22:53.08brlcadthx for catching that
23:20.28FikrannSee you all tomorrow.
23:30.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (INSTALL doc/README.IRIX doc/Makefile.am): separate out the irix notes into it's own readme in the doc directory. refer readers to the doc/README.* files in INSTALL
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050413

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050413

01:00.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Anim_Tutorial/ (Makefile.am index.html Butler.html Murdza.html): remove specific references to ARL addresses
01:43.27brlcadmm.. lots of e-mail
01:43.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (35 files in 16 dirs): remove specific references to ARL addresses. instead use brlcad.org mail aliases and the new sf.net mailing lists.
02:47.08Twingy../email_sean.sh &
02:47.12Twingyoops
02:48.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/ReleaseNotes/Rel5.0/Summary/ (22 files): get rid of index.htm and just keep/reference index.html
03:03.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/ReleaseNotes/Rel5.0/Summary/ (38 files): damn dos carriage returns, s/\r//g
03:16.45Twingy'lo
03:17.02Twingymy pic microcontroller doesn't want to work
03:20.44brlcadheh
03:40.11narniaTwingy, does brl-cad run on a pic microcontroller? ;-)
03:40.51Twingyerm
03:41.02Twingyon about 50,000 of them maybe
03:41.13TwingyI could fit my raytracing engine on one though ;)
04:04.01*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
04:05.28narniatom sawyer, ate the network cable yet again. yet another splice.
04:05.59narnianeed to run that cable in plastic conduit so he cannot get to it.
04:39.13Twingycool
04:39.18Twingygot the controller working
04:39.23Twingyrunning at 1KHz *flex*
04:54.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/ReleaseNotes/Rel5.0/Summary/Makefile.am: one entry per line, sorted.
05:00.38narniaokay, if i was to paint the network cables with tabasco sauce and let it dry do you think that would stop tom sawyer from eating the cables?
05:00.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Anim_Tutorial/Makefile.am: one entry per line, sorted.
05:05.10brlcadnarnia: nah, tobasco isn't very hot .. go with some better habanero extract from a sauce shop
05:05.22brlcada few drops on a cable will keep him away for sure
05:29.40narniabrlcad, habanero you say.
05:30.24narniabrlcad, could just smear ben-gay all over the cable.
07:12.13*** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org)
07:29.23FikrannHello
10:59.24*** join/#brlcad cad529 (~d5d7718f@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:02.48FikrannHello
11:05.34*** join/#brlcad kernoz (~chatzilla@213.215.113.143)
11:14.01FikrannHello
11:22.33kernozciao
12:57.19FikrannHello brl
13:09.27*** join/#brlcad farny (HydraIRC@bb219-74-63-91.singnet.com.sg)
13:16.18farnyhi
13:16.41farnygot a question
13:17.37farnyi downloaded an win32 installer for brlcad 6 from here: http://ftp.arl.mil/brlcad/preGPL/meeting2002/cd.html
13:17.49farnyand it asks me for a key when i install
13:22.17farnywhere can i get a key?
13:23.12farnyi'm gonna try compiling the latest release
13:23.28farnyonce i install gentoo on my amd64
13:26.28Fikranngo get Ubuntu instead, you'll save four, five days of needless work
13:29.09farnyreally?
13:29.48FikrannYes .. setting gentoo up is a long and arduous task.
13:30.00farnyi'm thinking of just using the grp first
13:30.24FikrannThen you'd better be off using another binary distro ..
13:30.35farnybut my sata raid seems to pose a problem for the 2.6 kernel
13:30.46farnygentoo seems quite cool though
13:32.30Fikranngentoo seems cool, yes, but its annoying and hard to manage in the long term. Believe me, I've been through it, with about ten successful installations on various machines.
13:33.21FikrannGetoo is pure-geek distro.
13:36.48farnyhmm
13:37.24farnylet me try it 4 myself :)
13:37.39farnyi love banging my head against the wall
13:38.26Fikrannhehe
13:39.24FikrannWell, be sure to have at least three days free to spend in front of your monitor, staring at make output scrolling before your eyes.
13:44.59farny:D
13:45.11farnyman, i could stare at it for weeks i swear :)
13:45.43farnyjust kidding actually i think the stock gentoo 2.6 kernel is choking on my sata raid
13:45.58farnyi may have to reconfigure, or go for a pata raid
13:46.03farnyor sata no-raid
13:47.28FikrannI'd suggest sata no-raid.
13:49.24FikrannThen, if you require raid 1,3,5,6, go for md (and wait for your hardware sata raid driver to stabilise) if you need raid 0, go for LVM which thousandfold more flexible.
13:49.35farnyyeah, pata raid depends on the shop guys taking back my sata disks and giving me pata
13:49.49farnyi'm just going 4 raid 1
13:50.05farnytoo cheap to do 0+1
13:50.12farnyand dun really know what the other numbers mean
13:50.23Fikrannthen md should be enough for you. Really, I don't think you'd really need raid..
13:50.35farnymy raid isn't hardware, it's crappy software
13:50.48farnymd = mirror drive = raid 0?
13:51.06Fikrannmd == multiple devices == Linux software raid.
13:51.55farnywait linux can do it's own software raid even if your mobo can't?
13:52.48Fikrannof course.
13:52.57farnywhoa
13:53.01farnyi din know that
13:53.12farnycan do raid 1?
13:53.22FikrannWhat do you need a raid array for?
13:53.39farnyi guess i just want faster read/writes
13:53.46Fikrannyes, it can. jbod, 0, 1, 10, 3, 5, 6.
13:53.53farnyjbod?
13:54.19Fikrannjust a bunch of disks, concatenation, very poor mans version of 0 (w/o stripping).
13:54.25learnerfarny, release 6 was under a different license agreement
13:54.33learneryou had to request a decryption key
13:55.33learnerthat release is a preview release intended for developers, it's not exactly useful/intended for non-developers
13:55.54farnyreally?
13:56.07farnyfikrann i think that doesn't improve the speed then
13:56.16farnyi was looking forward to striping
13:56.42farnyanyway learner so it's not possible to get a decryption key somehow?
13:57.23learnerit's "possible" .. but very highly discouraged :)
13:57.26Fikrannfarny, jbod doesn't. You might want to look at LVM, which can offer r/w speed increase through stripping, along with greatly enhanced volume management abilities.
13:57.30farnyand can brlcad be compiled in windows? i could only find compilation instructions for linux and osx
13:57.34learnerespecially if you're not a coder :)
13:58.16learnerfarny, the windows port is under active development.. much progress has been made since that binary release too
13:58.18farnyin other words, u need 2 modify certain places in the source? ok that's probably too much 4 me
13:58.27farnyok
13:59.25farnywhoa a geeky gal
13:59.26farny:p
13:59.39learnerit means you're highly likely to run into a problem that would need to be reported back -- something a dev should be easily familiar with
13:59.59farnyoh ok
14:00.20farnybtw i get the impression that the linux n osx versions use the same sources, as there's only 1 source, is that right?
14:00.29learnerthere is only 1 source
14:00.35learnereven the windows port uses the same source
14:00.43farnyhow can that be? i thought u'd need slightly different sources 4 diff platforms?
14:00.50learnerTk
14:01.17FikrannConditional compilation is key term here }:>
14:01.39learnerTk abstracts most of the platform-specific details, the rest is taken care of in the code conditionally
14:02.02learnerbleh, s/nads/nods/
14:02.53Fikrann}:>
14:05.52farnywhoa
14:06.06farnyTk seems pretty amazing
14:06.44Fikranntcl/tk are nice but somewhat aging.
14:07.18farnyreally? so what's cool now?
14:07.30farnydo they have successors?
14:09.38FikrannVarious other widget/crossplatform portability packages .. Qt, WxWindows, xForms to name the few I can recall right now.
14:09.57FikrannSDL, for games. Clanlib, too.
14:12.10farnyok cool
14:12.17farnyi've heard of the 1st 3
14:13.33learnerquite aging, not my personal pref :)
14:14.33learnernow clanlib is something I rather like.. they've evolved nicely over the years
14:14.57learneri couldn't consider them for the longest time because they hadn't added an opengl context yet, but they have that now too
14:15.26Fikrannahh
14:15.43learnersdl is nice, we converted bz's platform code to sdl a while back
14:16.01Fikrannhmm .. bz?
14:17.08Fikrannahh .. yes, I seen your post on linux-cad mail list }:>
14:17.17learnera relatively old game that has it's origins on sgi
14:17.46learnerhmm.. I posted something to linux-cad about bzflag? :)
14:17.48Fikrannbzflag good. Liked it very much .. unfortunately had not much luck with online mode.
14:18.33learnerare you on a modem?
14:18.47FikrannWhen I tried, I was using a modem, yes.
14:18.58learnerthat would be the only possible problem other than being behind a firewall
14:19.45learneryeah, you can't play on a server that has more than about 8 players with a modem and that's even tough just because of your latency
14:21.15FikrannYes ..
14:24.17farnysorry 2 interrupt, but r u guys talking about some kind of online game?
14:24.40Fikrannyes, bzflag is a cool multiplayer game.
14:25.58farnywhat's it like?
14:26.01farnycounter-strike?
14:26.10Fikrannheh
14:27.46Fikranna 3D first person tank battle game
14:27.47FikrannBZFlag is a 3D multi-player multiplatform tank battle game
14:27.47Fikrannthat allows users to play against each other in a network
14:27.47Fikrannenvironment. There are five teams: red, green, blue,
14:27.47Fikrannpurple and rogue (rogue tanks are black).  Destroying a
14:27.48Fikrannplayer on another team scores a win, while being destroyed
14:27.49Fikrannor destroying a teammate scores a loss. Rogues have no
14:27.51Fikrannteammates (not even other rogues), so they cannot shoot
14:27.54Fikrannteammates and they do not have a team score.
14:28.27FikrannThere are two main styles of play: capture-the-flag and
14:28.27Fikrannfree-for-all. In capture-the-flag, each team (except
14:28.27Fikrannrogues) has a team base and each team with at least one
14:28.27Fikrannplayer has a team flag. The object is to capture an enemy
14:28.27Fikrannteam's flag by bringing it to your team's base. This
14:28.58Fikranndestroys every player on the captured team, subtracts one
14:28.58Fikrannfrom that team's score, and adds one to your team's score.
14:28.58FikrannIn free-for-all, there are no team flags or team bases.
14:28.58FikrannThe object is simply to get as high a score as possible.
14:29.29learnerhehe
14:29.46FikrannDescription courtesy Debian package database }:>
14:30.13learnerfarny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BZFlag
14:31.38learnerhmm.. maybe after another iteration or two I can get back to updating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD
14:32.48learnercourse I suppose our own website is a little higher priority
14:33.15learnerrather lame right now, imho
14:35.08farnyinteresting game
14:36.41learnerit is a little like counterstrike in slow motion, with tanks that jump instead of people
14:36.56learnerthough I stick to the non-jumping maps myself
14:47.12FikrannI always wished the maps could be more detailed ..
14:48.11farnylol i can just imagine
14:48.20farnycs with jumping tanks instead of pple
14:48.25farny:p
14:51.38learnerFikrann, since 2.0.0 they can be as detailed as you like
14:51.56learnerno longer just boxes, pyramids, and teleporters
14:52.09learnermaps can be arbitrary meshes
14:52.26learnerso you could actually play on a CS map or a quake world, etc
14:54.03Fikrannahh, that's good.
14:54.22learnera simple example: http://db.bzflag.bz/tmp/aztec.jpg
14:55.39learnerhttp://db.bzflag.bz/tmp/tree_cut.jpg
14:56.22FikrannNow only to add hovertank style movements (like in modern day Battle Zone I and II) and I won't do any work for next two months };>
14:56.45learnerhehe
14:57.53FikrannI simply loved these two games.
14:58.50farnylearner what r u raiding?
15:20.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Make the idle_mode method public
15:23.23*** join/#brlcad cad617 (~80f4e9b8@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:11.21*** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org)
16:30.43farnyk thx 4 your help guys
16:30.47farnyn fikrann too
16:31.02farnymaybe i'll pop by again once i'm ready 2 compile brl on linux
16:36.54brlcadfarny: i'm not "raiding" anything.. I"m trying to recover from an impending failure of a third disk on a big raid 5 array
16:38.15brlcadpoor old disk array has held up quite well for this long, but it's on the edge of failure now with several dead disks that havne't been replaced yet
16:38.23brlcadnice to see the filesystems withstand 3 dead disks though
16:47.28narniabrlcad, i am at the point i need to ensure that the ap's, ir's, and aic's i am using are indeed valid. i have so far determined that the 10303-203-aim-long.exp file from steptools is not valid. i cannot generate it from the 10303-203-aim-short.exp, ir's and aic's. this is what i was talking about yesterday. when the 10303 part 2xx short form, ir's or aic's change the 10303 part 2xx long form is out-of-date. there is no provision in the 10303 part 2
16:47.28narniaxx long form to indicate what versions/editions of 10303 part 2xx short form, ir's and aic's where used to create it.
16:48.06narniathe iso 10303 parts appear to be out-of-sync.
16:51.55narniai assume that someone has a test suite for testing short-to-long, express language parser, part21 support, ap203 and ap214 conformance. i just have not found that test suite yet.
16:53.23brlcadit's not "valid" or it's simply not up to date with the latest short forms?
16:53.25narniasupporting express language, part21, ap203 and ap214 just keeps getting deeper and deeper.
16:54.15brlcadi'd expect the long/short forms available directly from the iso website to be close to as reliable as there is
16:55.25narniabrlcad, the 10303-203-aim-long.exp is invalid. fedex and express parser both agree that it is indeed invalid.
16:57.08narniai need to send an e-mail to the step-os e-mail list. see if anyone there can shed some light on this situation.
16:58.55brlcadokay, that file you have is supposedly invalid, but where is that from?
16:59.00narniabrlcad, i have no way of knowing if the 10303-203-aim-long.exp is what is currently in iso-10303-203
16:59.34narniathe 10303-203-aim-long.exp file came from steptools.com.
17:00.34narniaspecifically, http://www.steptools.com/sc4/archive/
17:01.05narniai pulled the entire archive out of their cvs server.
17:01.54brlcadthe iso store had both long and short .exp's available for download (old and new, iirc)
17:02.23narniai did not know that. would you happen to remember the url?
17:04.20brlcadi'm not on a box with a gui right this moment, but I'll dig it up next chance
17:05.47narniai am searching www.iso.ch as we chat.
17:06.10brlcadsomething iso.org i believe
17:57.45narniabrlcad, since i am deep into iso-10303 do you think it be worth trying to see if http://pdesinc.aticorp.org/requirements.html would create a special membership for opensource developers? in theory that would give me access to all iso-10303 documents. like i said in theory.
18:00.21narniabrlcad, i can easily meet the 1800 hours per year. i mean it is not like i am going anywhere anytime soon.
18:07.09narniathat works out to 150 hrs per month or 3.75 weeks ( assuming 40 hours per week ).
18:09.53Axioshow many working hours work per week is normal in the US.?
18:22.30narniaAxios, fulltime is normally assumed to be 40hrs. many jobs are less than that now days. employers do not want to pay benefits so they hire part-time for about 30 hrs per week. therefore, many people must work more than one job.
18:23.53narniaAxios, even at 40 hrs per week, the retail sales clerk is probably only earning minimum wage.
18:24.42narniaAxios, if a person is salaried and not hourly the number of hours worked per week will be more than 40 hrs per week.
18:25.34narniaAxios, the two items hurting the working poor are 0) medical expenses 1) energy costs.
18:27.42narniaAxios, basically employment is the usa sucks at the moment.
18:28.19brlcadnarnia: interesting thought .. looks like only 900 hours per year for groups doing STEP product development
18:29.10brlcadAxios: and some consistently put in 50-80 hours a week with or without overtime pay
18:29.18brlcadat a single job
18:29.35brlcadvaries from job to job, employer to employer, person to person
18:30.03brlcad40 is "full-time" though .. that's generally what's expected
18:30.49narniaAxios, if you happen to have any physical challenges forget about finding a job.
18:31.24brlcadheh, he did only ask how many hours, yes? :)
18:31.46narniaAxios, employers do not like "handicapped" employees. the americans with disabilities act (ada) is not worth the paper it is written on.
18:32.02narniabrlcad, true. sorry. sore point.
18:32.18brlcadpoints well taken regardless :)
18:33.49narniabrlcad, so should i give pdes membership a try?
18:38.29brlcadif it's going to be on behalf of BRL-CAD development, I should probably contact them
18:38.59brlcadI'll read that in full this evening
18:43.42narniabrlcad, i think at this point there are basically two projects: all the 10303 parts as a standalone project independent of brl-cad and all the 10303 parts integrated into brl-cad.
18:45.49brlcadyes, there are two -- which is in part why I want to contact them myself for BRL-CAD
18:45.51narniabtw, 10303-42e3 ( edition 3 ) from steptools express archives is also invalid.
18:46.31narniaso i contact them for the other part?
18:46.56brlcadbrl-cad has a fair bit of industry clout with it's history, lots of folks know about it and i don't want to get into the process of mixing waters
18:47.27narniaunderstand.
18:47.54brlcadalso have to be careful about how this all relates back to ARL and/or the Gov't .. I have to make sure they understand the distinction on the open source side
18:49.26brlcade.g. on their member chart, there is also a section for gov't that involves more resource contributions
18:49.47narniaso you are going to explain the two projects together?
18:50.25narniaunderstand
18:50.38narniawhere did you see the 900hrs?
18:51.39brlcadNote #2
18:53.03brlcadtheir definition of "internal" raises question, but the basic idea sounds like work that's a private benefit can count
18:53.34brlcadif it's purely saying those hours can count towards the 1800, then it's still 1800 and in this case everything is public
18:53.59brlcadInteresting: Comprehensive vendor testbed that includes all major CAD systems and STEP translators
18:56.58narniai figured after reading the benefits it would be worth a try for me personally to contact pdes about an opensource developer membership.
18:57.00brlcad1800 hours is approximately one man-year's worth of time
18:57.30narniayes, if you believe in 'man-year'. ;-)
18:58.04narniahow to make a project, which all ready late, later. throw more people at it. ;-)
18:59.01brlcadyep
18:59.13brlcadstill need to read the mythical man month
18:59.31brlcadthough I've heard most of the ideas I believe
18:59.33narniaso i take it from what you have said above there are really two brl-cads. the opensource brl-cad and the internal to arl brl-cad.
19:00.39brlcadWell, one "brl-cad" .. and we're looking on writing up a change management plan that describes just what that all means
19:01.00brlcadbut there are definitely two distinctly separate interests involved
19:01.13brlcadboth legally and feature-wise
19:04.49brlcadthe biggest "problem" is that ARL is a government entity, that gives brl-cad both many benefits implicitly and several complications in terms of names and representation
19:05.26brlcadi.e. several other groups will give another gov't group, especially one like arl, certain benefits "for free" where they otherwise would not ..
19:06.13brlcadthat happens as there's also the implicit understanding that the gov't will not financially benefit/hurt or otherwise impact them (federal statutes require this)
19:06.55brlcadso asking for membership and using the name brl-cad carries with it certain level of responsibility to make it clear just who is asking and agreeing to what
19:07.53brlcadI think the case can be made pretty easy to get "the open source BRL-CAD software development team" a membership with pdes, inc.
19:08.25brlcadcould probably make an even easier case for getting ARL a membership as a gov't institution
19:09.31brlcadthe case for "open source developers at large not affiliated with anyone" is a much harder case, imo
19:12.58brlcadI'll ask them if they'd be willing to reduce the annual resource contribution in exchange for some other reduction of benefit since the financial obligations would be personal obligations for us as open source developers
19:13.16brlcadunless we form a developer entity, which I've also been considering
19:15.33brlcadnarnia: ahh, I found the site that had the .exp files.. www.tc184-sc4.org  but they're apparently having issues right now
19:20.04brlcadhttp://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:8nb7w32Cs2cJ:www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4_Work_Products_Documents/STEP_(10303)/200-299/documentation.cfm+iso++10303+203&hl=en
19:26.28Axiosnarnia: it's a bit different in Denmark
19:26.38Axiosa normal working week is 37 hours
19:27.01Axiosall medical things is payed for by the goverment
19:27.10Axiosschools, universitys to
19:27.21AxiosI actually get "paid" to go to school
19:27.42brlcadyou only generally get paid to go to school in the u.s. if you're going for a Ph.D
19:27.50brlcador if your company pays for it
19:28.09AxiosYou also get payed for a Ph.D here, a lot more than what I get
19:28.19AxiosI get around 650 USD a month
19:29.12AxiosA Ph.D would get something like 3000 USD a month
19:29.41Axiosor systems are very different
19:30.05Axiosin Denmark you cant be really rich, and you cant be really poor
19:30.27Axiosbut you can be somewhat rich, and somewhat poor
19:30.54brlcadnarnia: I'll craft a message to pdes and copy you on it -- there's about 1 man-month that would implicitly get taken up by meetings, another three or so could be expected from myself -- that leaves a need for about 8 man months to account for unless they're willing to negotiate (which they probably would)
19:32.54narniabrlcad, so you are going to reference both projects. okay.
19:33.51brlcadyeah, there's a clear direction you've already been going in that includes stuff outside of brl-cad
19:34.52brlcadI'd include that in our talks (and perhaps even "bill" them for the 3-4 man-months or so of time that's already been put into it)
19:35.42brlcadbut push it forward under the auspices of "open source brl-cad development" unless you have objections, since that would be more easy to justify/explain
19:39.08brlcadinteresting, per their membership details, we would be neither users nor vendors as we are not commercial entities.. could just be simplified wording, though for the presentation slides
19:41.59brlcadnarnia: have you made any long-term plans for what you plan to do with the scl?
19:45.08narniabrlcad, the first long-term item is to fix the parser situation.
19:45.36brlcadi mean as a project, though ..
19:46.06brlcaddo you intend to post up your modifications?  keep it internal to yourself?  make an sf.net project for scl?
19:46.28brlcadthe latter was what I had in mind, either that, or bring it in to brl-cad under a separate cvs module
19:46.39brlcadlet you go hog-wild with it there ;)
19:46.56narniabrlcad, ultimate goal to be a complete validated iso-10303 opensource development environment.
19:47.38brlcadeek.. all of 10303? :)
19:47.45narniabrlcad, yes
19:48.10brlcadyou know the printed volumes for that would be about 2 or 3 times the volume of my car :)
19:48.48narniathe airplane will not flying till the weight of the documentation exceeds the weight of the airplane. ;-)
19:50.10narniai am really understanding iso-10303. the is scary. ;-)
19:52.07narniaa step-viewer would be nice to have. but that is what brl-cad is good at.
19:54.46brlcadso as part of a complete 10303 suite, though.. any thoughts on what/where to manage it or have you not gotten that far?
19:55.23brlcadit doesn't matter a whole lot to me, as like I said, brl-cad pretty much only needs libexpress which I'll probably pull in directly like we do for everything else
19:56.02brlcadi can either keep that in sync with your tree from time to time, or with the other cvs module if it's in brl-cad's cvs
19:56.39narniabrlcad, well we need libexpress, the part21 parser, the ap203 parser and perhaps the ap214 parser. those parsers are not part of libexpress yet.
19:57.30brlcadthose sub-parsers would presumably become part of libexpress though, no?  or perhaps a libstep of some sort or as "modules" to libexpress
20:01.45narniai am tempted to use http://savannah.gnu.org/ for the repository of the iso-10303 project.
20:04.41narniathe parsers should probably be merged into libexpress. the support/utility programs use them. exppp (express pretty print) shtolo (short-to-long) fedex (an express language validator) dataprobe (an express language gui tool)
20:05.41narniathen there is the 'glue' library between part 21 and the aps (203 and 214) and brl-cad.
20:05.44narniathat is currently being worked on.
20:10.32narniathere is yet another project in waiting. that is part library creation. i have created literally thousands of standardized parts for my project. from threads, bolts, nuts, pipe, pipe fittings, flanges, etc. it would be a 'good' thing to convert those to an iso-10303 plib. then brl-cad would be able to access a large ready made set of parts.
20:12.33narniathen there is the brl-cad to emc (enhanced machine controller) interface. design in brl-cad send to emc and create the part.
20:13.29brlcadhmm.. savannah seemed so immature when I last looked
20:14.17brlcadthey just recently ditched their entire backend .. not exactly a sign of stability
20:14.44narniathere is also another part of my project which i am not sure how to integrate into brl-cad. that is tools cutters, like end-mills, ball mills, brouches, etc.
20:14.59narniaumm i did not know that.
20:15.37narniabrl-cad will need to have knowledge of tool cutters and tool paths.
20:15.46narniathere is alot on my plate.
20:16.48brlcadtool cutters and tool paths should work pretty nicely as a plug-in to the new cad interface
20:18.56brlcadbtw, the comment regarding savannah wasn't to discourage you from using it :)
20:19.19brlcadcould be great, I haven't worked with many savannah projects
20:19.37narnianeither have i.
20:20.01brlcadthe gforge fork seems to have made a lot more progress than savannah has with the opensource sourceforge code
20:21.36brlcadif i'm not mistaken, they recently replaced their port with gforge though, so the point's probably moot
20:21.42narniaof course it would be nice to have 'one stop shopping' when it comes to iso-10303, brl-cad, and emc.
20:22.02narniabrlcad, brl-cad and emc are both hosted on sourceforge.net.
20:22.17brlcadyes, that much I knew ;)
20:22.36narniathat alone would imply it makes more sense to have the 10303 stuff hosted there as well.
20:23.08brlcadso was i :)
20:23.39narniadoes sourceforge.net have a concept of a super-project?
20:23.55brlcadit's just a project
20:24.24brlcadi mean from sf.net's perspective, it's just another project
20:24.30narniaby that i mean. brl-cad, emc, and iso-10303 stuff are all projects; but together they form a super-project.
20:24.37brlcadwhether it uses/integrates with others or not
20:25.12brlcadyou wouldn't retain the name "SCL" ?
20:25.19brlcadnot that it matters
20:26.17narniafred proctor and i have concerns retaining 'scl' and/or 'nist' will confuse people.
20:27.23narniado you see what i mean by a 'super-project'?
20:27.46brlcadyes, but still from sf.net's perspective it's a completely separate project
20:28.53brlcadnot unlike a linux distribution .. using a core kernel (scl) along with standard tools (brl-cad and emc)
20:29.03brlcadbut a separate project in it's own right
20:32.30brlcadi could see bringing in scl into brl-cad's repository as a separate module given how coupled it'll need to be with the modeler/converters and given the fact that nist is "done" with it
20:32.58brlcadbut then it could be it's own project too given how the needs could be very separate from CAD/CAM
20:34.12brlcadi wouldn't lose the "SCL" bit myself, though -- there's value in keeping that at least as part of the name to show that the new one is an improvement over the old one
20:34.46brlcadGNU SCL or something with clear historical references to the origins from NIST
20:44.34narniahave to watch the having 'gnu and step' in the same name. gnustep is the opensource replacement for openstep (the nextstep os. next cube. steve jobs).
20:45.11narniabeen searching for a name and the obvious ones are all ready taken.
20:45.24brlcadyeah yeah :)
20:45.42narniai.e. openstep, gnustep, etc.
20:46.22brlcadiso 10303 just sounds so meaningless :)
20:46.27narniai have openstep for intel in my cabinet.
20:47.07brlcadiso 10302 wasn't good enough? :)  or no, that's the spec for how to slice potatoes on a rainy day internationally
20:47.46brlcadcould call it "Exchange" .. that'd be fun ;)
20:48.53brlcadooh, SPEL .. the standard parts exchange library that can't spel korectly
20:49.07narniawell, 'outlook express' is taken as is 'exchange express' both by microsloth.
20:49.45brlcadi wouldn't say it's "taken" .. it's too generic
20:50.02brlcadlike how they were denied a trademark claim on "Windows"
20:51.54narniacould always ask steve for use of 'openstep'. ;-)
20:52.43narniasince nextstep for all practical purposes no longer exists.
20:53.06brlcadanyhow, that's all in part why I'd stick with SCL :)  people that knew about SCL will know what is meant
20:53.13brlcadnextstep exists.. it's called cocoa
20:53.38brlcadseriously, the api calls are still the same.. NSWindow()..
20:53.38narniaand hear i thought that was nestle. ;-)
20:54.32narniai have noticed that. ;-)
20:55.56narniaseriously i would be willing to write steve jobs and ask for the use of openstep.
20:58.27narniai remember when it was named 'rhapsody'. and was the blue box on the slides. rhapsody in blue.
21:05.28narniabrlcad, btw, where is jano?
21:06.27narniabrb need decaf
21:28.15brlcadoh, he's around .. just being technoshy of late
21:28.29brlcaddoes that from time to time, this longer than some
21:48.27*** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org)
21:48.47FikrannHello
21:50.26narniaFikrann, hello, how goes it?
21:51.02narniaFikrann, it goes.
21:51.23narniachilly here today. not been able to go outside.
21:52.53Fikrannahh
21:55.10narniahaving been homebound for 8+yrs sucks.
21:55.43brlcadhello Fikrann
21:56.12*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
21:56.23brlcadguu, welcome back
21:56.34guubrlcad: bafuuuuuu!
22:26.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): move brlcad.spec.in from the top level to misc/
23:15.24narniabrlcad, www.tc184-sc4.org is still hosed. :-(
23:15.57brlcadi have the long form of 214 from them if it's of any use
23:16.10brlcadand I think the short from of 203
23:16.55narniai did find this gem:: Abstract Test Suites describe the tests to be used to determine if an implementation conforms to the related Application Protocol. Each Application Protocol has an associated Abstract Test Suite with the number 3xx, where xx represents the second and third digits in the number of the Application Protocol. For example, ISO 10303-207 has an associated Abstract Test Suite with the number ISO 10303-307.
23:17.38narniaso ap203 has test suite 10303-303.
23:21.14brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/express/
23:21.24brlcadthat's some of what i have
23:21.45brlcadi have more on another machine that i don't have access to right now
23:23.51brlcadahh, nvr mind, the other machine only had the same things you already had from scl
23:29.27brlcaddamn, not many people have configure checks for libutahrle to go by .. only found one so far
23:31.04Fikrannutahrle .. isn't that pic format used by brlcad?
23:33.04brlcadit's one of the supported image formats
23:33.08brlcadit's an old format
23:33.20brlcadalso known as librle
23:33.25Fikrannah
23:33.53brlcadutah raster toolkit are the folks that made it, hasn't really changed in about 15 years or so
23:34.25brlcadwe redistribute the urt, but i'm adding checks so that we don't install it if urt is already installed
23:34.57brlcadit's a rare possibility if the folks are into imaging and are on a packaging system like bsd ports or debian apt, etc
23:35.30brlcadFikrann: do you code? :)
23:35.39brlcaddo you want to code? :)
23:37.49brlcadgood to know .. if you want to work on something, just lemme know ;)
23:40.21FikrannIf you have any fixme of medium importance in sight, just point me in the right direction }:>
23:42.25brlcad:)
23:46.11brlcadi suppose that depends on where your interest is .. there's plenty to do that's both coding and non-coding
23:47.04brlcadthe TODO and BUGS files list a variety of broad issues .. the sf.net RFE and Bugs trackers have more specific problems that people have submitted
23:47.19Fikrannok
23:47.26FikrannI'll look into it tomorrow.
23:48.01brlcadno worries either way .. any help is appreciated any time ;)
23:48.14Fikrann}:>
23:49.56brlcadmy priorities for this iteration (i.e. this month) are to add the few build checks that the freebsd folks have asked for, the g-vrml addition that was requested from our netherlander friends, and then hopefully get back to working on a new website
23:51.09Fikrannah
23:51.29brlcadactually the g-vrml is a nice fixme if you want it
23:52.11brlcaddefinitely something more than a plain page :)
23:52.36brlcadthe current pages are embarrasing to my sense of standards
23:53.00brlcadbut it was all we had time to put together before the news announcements went out
23:55.05brlcadI have drupal set up right now, but it's not fully configured nor has the look'n feel I'd like via any of the available themes
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050414

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050414

00:07.10brlcadplone's on the plate for consideration ;)
00:07.45brlcadi basically settled on choosing between drupal, plone, and mambo, leaning towards the three in about that order after looking at all of their features
00:08.19brlcadwe have lots of space, though thanks ;)
00:09.56brlcadahh
00:10.37brlcadhave you tried out drupal as well?
00:10.48FikrannBut I can lend Zope managing skills too if you want your site on your server and decide on plone.
00:11.15FikrannYes, I tried it out once .. but quite a long time ago, it was in early stages of development then.
00:12.41FikrannIt seems nice and working well, from what I saw lately. Its geared towards small, simple sites rather than complex company/community portals.
00:15.21brlcadhmm, their integration of the wiki module along with a more up to date phpbb module was one of the factors that pushed drupal above zope, aside from the slightly lesser load it was causing
00:17.58brlcaddrupal's developer api for modules seemed a lil easier to work with too -- there are longer term plans to have a on-line front-end to a geometry and benchmark archive
00:18.14brlcadhave you done development with plone?
00:18.58brlcadi admit my brush with it was via very broad strokes as I narrowed in on first impression feelings of the three
00:19.47brlcadmambo's by far got the largest community of users, iirc, but there were a few things about it that made them #3
00:22.06brlcadFikrann: would you be interested in setting up a themed demo of plone on the website in a staging area?
00:23.00brlcadi don't have cms religion, so if it works and can do what we need, great ;)
00:37.06Fikrannstaging area?
00:37.30brlcadyou can see the staged version of drupal at http://brlcad.org/www/ .. i left it at one of the alternate themes before I was off working on something else, but it's functional
00:37.49brlcada place to test it out before kicking it up to be the main page/site
00:40.49Fikrannok, I'll whip something up tomorrow.
00:41.58brlcaddo you have an sf.net account?
00:43.36brlcadi can add you to the access list for the website if you do, working within those constraints staging it there is preferred since that's where it will end up :)
00:44.06FikrannI once had ..
00:45.01FikrannHmmm .. do sourceforge allow running processes on their servers?
00:45.21brlcaddepends on what kind of process
00:45.30brlcadthey have much already provided
00:45.46brlcadif you mean like running python on the backend, yes
00:46.23brlcadthere are databases available as well
00:46.26Fikrannfor plone you need Zope, which is a web server by itself .. though usually you hide it behind another one. Zope tends to be ram heavy, though. They might not like it.
00:47.18brlcadi wouldn't be surprised if they already host many many zope-based sites
00:47.42brlcadif I remember correctly, though, zope can also run under apache, yes?
00:48.52Fikrannthrough persistent-cgi, yes, but its still quite standalone app.
00:49.33Fikrann(forcing it into pure cgi mode would make things go veeeeeeeery slowly)
00:50.17brlcadheh, plone is an sf.net-based project themselves it looks (at least they have an sf.net project) so it should be easy to find out what the problems are
00:51.42Fikrannyes, but I think plone.org is hosted somewhere else.
00:52.18brlcadthat could be for many other reasons
00:52.36brlcadin particular, sf.net restricts outbound connectivity
00:54.27brlcadhrm.. nobody useful in #plone yet speaking up
00:55.03brlcad118 people lurking, sheesh :)
00:57.18Fikrannheh ..
00:58.17Fikrann*yawns* I'm off .. before I crash down and get Ultraspac cpu heatsink embedded in my face.
00:58.49brlcadcu
05:18.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/other/Makefile.am): add a configure-time option to build the utah raster toolkit (and hence libutahrle) conditionally
05:23.46brlcadsleep?
05:23.51brlcadi haven't even gone home yet
05:24.07narniabrlcad, do you even have a home? ;-)
05:24.21brlcadhome is where my dog is :)
05:24.46narniabrlcad, i did not know you had a dog.
05:25.11narniabrlcad, small, medium, big, giant size?
05:26.02brlcadsmall, albeit a lil portly
05:26.12narniaah
05:26.19brlcadabout 20 pounds portly
05:26.38narniayour dog weighs 20 pounds?
05:26.47brlcadroughly
05:27.16brlcadhe should weigh about 12-16
05:27.58brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/barney_small.jpg
05:28.02narniai have a cat that weighs 20 pounds. his daddy was carl sagan, a siamese, his mommy was a silky fur domestic long hair.
05:28.40narniahe is cute.
05:29.21narniathe cat is named bilbo baggins because he steals 'shiny' objects.
05:29.43brlcadbarney had a brother named fred
05:30.07brlcadfred was a bit bigger and darker
05:30.17narniaseveral years ago when my son and i were rebuilding the tractor engine bilbo stoled the intake values.
05:30.19brlcadfred was left in panama, not as cuddly
05:31.06narniayou had two dogs fred flintstone and barney rubble. cute.
05:31.35narniafred was left in latin america.
05:31.50brlcadyeah, some friends wanted him
05:32.08narnialived or worked in panama?
05:32.09brlcadlater met an early demise unfortunately
05:32.17narnia:-(
05:32.22brlcadbarney is the best dog I've ever had, though
05:41.50narniai was looking at the bzflag.bz web site.
05:42.22narniadid i ever give you url for a picture of me?
05:46.54narniai seem to remember i sent you pictures of huck and tom.
08:09.29*** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@zmt.zinc.eu.org)
08:09.36FikrannHello
11:31.53*** join/#brlcad Fikrann (~fikrann@213.134.163.189)
12:03.24brlcadheh, didn't sleep very long Fikrann :)
12:03.52FikrannHow are you brlcad?
12:04.04brlcaddoing alright, thanks -- yourself?
12:06.18FikrannHoping the CD drive in my laptop is still okay ..
12:07.11Fikrannit just did a loud SCRATCH .. though the disk is still in one piece and spinning ..
12:09.43FikrannGood thing this cd was not recorded to its full capacity .. it now has an awful scratch about 3mm from its outer edge.
13:22.30narniawww.tc184-sc4.org is still hosed. need to look for alternate source for validated ap203 short and long form .exp files.
13:25.36*** join/#brlcad foobar (HydraIRC@bb219-74-63-66.singnet.com.sg)
13:26.45FikrannHello
13:26.55foobarhi!
13:27.08foobarhow r u?
13:31.34FikrannI'm well, thank you. How about you?
13:32.29foobarpretty gd
13:32.46foobarbtw juz curious where r u from?
13:33.54FikrannSomewhere on Earth, for sure.
13:35.14foobarsure :)
13:54.53brlcadI know someone from there I think
13:57.58brlcadbut i think they moved
13:59.46Fikrannheh
14:56.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Remove carriage-return newline sequences
16:43.20brlcadgo bob go
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19:03.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: utah has rle_getraw, not rle_get_raw
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050415

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050415

04:40.42*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@130.85.253.237)
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05:30.38Twingycool
05:30.53Twingygot my pic overclocked and running at 25mhz now
05:31.01TwingyI can do 1,120 sqrt's / sec
05:31.16Twingyhad to sacrifice an smc 100mb card to steal the crystal though
05:32.43PrezKennedy25 mhz!!
05:33.20narniaTwingy, you are overclocking a pic?
05:34.35narniaTwingy, may i ask why?
05:35.46Twingynext fastest crystal I had than 14.318 mhz was 25mhz
05:35.54Twingywanted to see if it would run at 25mhz, runs fine, only 3ma draw
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12:11.27*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
12:11.27*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
13:31.08Twingyfort shumaker is online
14:25.13*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:25.32polyspinMorning all.
14:26.14polyspinTwingy:  You were asking after me?
15:31.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: minor releases are more likely several months of effort and they're not necessarily going to have a maintenance branch (development might simply continue on HEAD)
15:50.06brlcadeep
16:20.00narniachrip
16:20.11narniachirp
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18:03.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Added idle_mode method.
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19:54.20*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011643033pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
20:11.16brlcadTwingy: up for Sin City tomorrow with kermit?
20:21.58Twingyhrm
20:22.04Twingyprobly not I think
20:22.12Twingydunno, have chuck give me a call
20:22.16Twingyis lee back?
20:23.58brlcadhe was
20:24.05brlcadnot no more
20:24.25brlcadwhat's up with comcast today?
20:25.59Twingyup and down
21:41.35PrezKennedywas kinda like that here
21:45.48Twingyyou got any broken boards at your place matthew?
21:46.00Twingylike mobos or pci / isa cards?
22:31.24narniabtw, where is jano?
22:35.43PrezKennedyuhh dont have anything broken
22:37.00narniaTwingy, what are you looking for?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050416

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050416

00:52.52*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (~danfalck@wbar1.sea1-4-5-017-067.sea1.dsl-verizon.net)
01:38.35Twingycrystals
03:04.15Twingyheh
03:42.16Twingyheh
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05:37.02TwingyNEW YORK (AP) -- At bustling post offices and their own keyboards, Americans by the millions played their annual game of Beat the Clock on Friday, racing to file tax returns by midnight.
05:37.02TwingyPostal workers supplied coffee and doughnuts -- Tax Day fixtures -- and were joined in some places by local radio DJs who cheered on the procrastinators.
05:49.39Twingyheh
05:49.42Twingyhow old are you?
05:59.11narniai am 53yo.
06:01.47Twingyretired?
06:07.28narniano
06:08.54narniai was in a work accident on 26 nov 1996. i have been basically homebound since then. i have multiple physical challenges as a result of the accident.
06:09.38narniai am an electronic engineer. b.s.e.e university of illinois urbana-champaign, ill many years ago.
06:10.31narniai am in pain to varying degrees 24x7.
06:10.57narniato keep my skills somewhat up to date i work on opensource projects.
06:11.52narniabasically, on 26 nov 1996, my body was trashed. i was pinned underneath a large electronic rack.
06:13.06narniai have been in 8+yr legal nightmare since the accident.
06:13.35narnianext court date is 11 may 2005 in chicago, ill. state of illinois building.
06:20.15Twingyah
06:20.20Twingyurbana has a decent graphics program
06:20.52TwingyI shoulda done electrical engineering instead of computer science
06:21.19Twingythe comp sci program was a complete waste of time
06:26.10narniadid you attend uofi urbana-champaign?
06:28.08Twingynope
06:28.14narniain 2000 it was old to be back at uofi to attend my daughter's graduation. i remembered pushing her baby scroller in the quad.
06:28.17Twingywent to NJIT (formerly Newark College of Engineering)
06:28.22narnias/old/odd/
06:29.48Twingywhat's she doing now?
06:30.05narniadegrees and experience mean absolutely nothing when you are 'disabled/handicapped'. no employer wants to hire 'disabled/handicapped' people.
06:30.29Twingy*shrug* lots of people want to employ steven hawking
06:30.58narniashe is assistant director for a non-profit agency which gives support services to children born with aids.
06:31.14Twingyvery noble
06:32.50narniaone out of three turning out all right is not bad these days. my son is a bum and the oldest one is 28yo. but acts like she is 16yo.
06:34.40Twingyfunny how no matter how much effort you put into steering your kids right they can still end in unpredictable circumstances :)
06:35.14Twingy...and how some of the worst parents can raise some of the brightest minds
06:37.39narniait is called 'free will'
06:42.27Twingytell you what, having a C compiler for this pic sure makes life easy
06:47.50narniaTwingy, what are using the pic for?
06:49.32Twingymy rocket
06:49.49Twingyrecovery system and gps data logging
06:51.26narnianot any estes rocket i assume.
06:53.37Twingynope
06:53.45TwingyI make my own rocket motors from stock steel
06:53.58Twingymy current one is an "I" motor
06:54.08Twingy~250lbs of thrust
06:54.31Twingyestimated peak altitude of about 1 mile
07:00.26narniawhat do you use for fuel? solid or liquid?
07:01.49Twingysolid
07:01.57TwingyI make sugar motors
07:02.05Twingypotassium nitrate + dextrose
07:05.02narniawell i need to crawl off to bed. good to talk with you.
07:06.03Twingyyep, later
07:51.19PrezKennedyif i ever get ahold of a particle cannon their house is toast
16:57.17narniaPrezKennedy, why is that?
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16:58.13narniaFikrann, hello, how goes it?
17:01.34PrezKennedywell narnia... theyre more trouble than theyre worth
17:01.52PrezKennedyand if i stop talking to them some other poor guy will be stuck dealing with them
17:21.04narniaPrezKennedy, understand. may i suggest a neutron bomb, tactical of course.
17:30.48PrezKennedyi dont wanna take out the neighborhood... just them
17:32.43Fikrannheh
17:33.10FikrannHow about 220mm howtizer, then?
17:54.37brlcadsorry to hear that Fikrann
17:56.09narniaPrezKennedy, what does a little collateral damage matter?
17:56.38PrezKennedyAC-130
17:57.16Fikrannh3h3
17:57.19Fikranner
17:57.27Fikrann*hehe
17:59.10FikrannThe world's most interesting attack craft..
18:05.10FikrannPrezKennedy, Who are you trying to drown under DU rain?
18:05.38PrezKennedytwo girls with some very serious emotional problems
18:19.51FikrannO.o
18:56.53PrezKennedycant say i wasnt innocent of any charges though... i did hurt one's feelings
21:30.36Fikrannheh
22:51.47FikrannBe well everyone
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050417

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050417

03:06.14narniawell, www.tc184-sc4.org is back working again but the express language schemas it has are also questionable. :-(
04:21.56Twingysweet, got the servo driving off the 16f676
05:00.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: BSD uses /usr/local for the ports system, and it's a common system path usually anyways so try searching it automatically by default.
05:52.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/flags.m4: initial flags file containing convenience argument handlers for specifying CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS, LDFLAGS, LIBS via --with argument handlers instead of relying on the environment variables.
05:53.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/Makefile.am: added flags.m4
05:58.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use BC_WITH_FLAG_ARGS to simplify
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23:21.02polyspingood evening.
23:21.22polyspinTwingy/brlcad are you here?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050418

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050418

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02:34.15polyspinevening
02:34.21polyspinAnybody listening?
02:53.06Twingyhi
02:54.03Twingywhatsup?
03:04.18Twingycool, richard smalley is on slashdot, erik and I saw him at 330 last year
03:39.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: drop the _LIBS to be consistent
03:40.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: drop the _LIBS on incrTcl libs to be consistent
03:41.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (fb/Makefile.am libdm/Makefile.am util/Makefile.am): s/LIBPNG/PNG/g to be consistent
03:45.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
03:45.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: add Tcl, incrTcl, and IWidgets to the configure-time checks for an already
03:45.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: installed useable system library version. iwidgets could use a better
03:45.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: functionality test, but it's a start. throw in some extra lib cleanup while
03:45.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: we're at it.
03:46.11polyspinHave a CMP I'd like comment on.  It's not as complete as I would like, but...
03:51.17polyspinIt's on bzflag.bz in my home directory
03:54.11brlcadmornin'
03:55.45polyspinMornin.
03:56.03polyspinJust re-uploaded the CMP to bzflag
04:00.51polyspinTwingy:  Launch anything this weekend?
04:02.05polyspinbrlcad: Can we use .htaccess on our project website?  Specifically, can we set up "registered users"?
04:02.33brlcadsure
04:03.00brlcadpolyspin: quickly skimmed through, looking much better
04:03.18polyspingreat.  That allows us to log minutes of TRB meetings there.
04:03.24polyspinI like it.
04:03.57brlcadinclusion of the stakeholders and some roles helped a lot
04:04.27polyspinand I think it puts the responsibility with the REAL stakeholders.
04:04.58polyspini've since split that section into one on TRB and one on CCB
04:05.15polyspinNothing major, just a header insertion and change.
04:08.04brlcadfyi, added automatic configure-time checks for tcl, incrtcl, and iwidgets now (did the utah raster toolkit last week)
04:08.31polyspinGreat.  My only concern is that ours has the gnu readline in it.
04:08.48brlcadour what?
04:09.04polyspinEr.  Our Tcl interpeter
04:09.19polyspinHave you built with a stock Tcl/Tk?
04:09.26brlcadit should be a stock tcl now
04:09.28polyspinOr are we just talking about checks
04:09.52polyspinHmm.  Did you run mged?  Did command line editing work?
04:10.17brlcadit checks (unless you explicitly set them to on/off) to see if there's a useable system installed version
04:10.35brlcadour tcl is a stock 8.4
04:10.41Twingyhi
04:10.46brlcadour tk isn't
04:10.53Twingypolyspin, question about the ttm stuff
04:11.02brlcadthere are no configure-time checks for tk (bezier canvas)
04:11.03TwingyResource Requirements (SY): 1.33
04:11.03Twingy<PROTECTED>
04:11.04Twingy.67.67
04:11.09Twingywhat does BB, BD, BE mean?
04:11.21polyspinBranch names.
04:11.25Twingyah
04:11.25Twingyk
04:11.25polyspinWe're BE
04:11.29Twingythx
04:11.34brlcadheh
04:11.54Twingydo you require my presence tommorrow? :)
04:12.22brlcadZeta Branch
04:12.37Twingy:)
04:13.22polyspinE-mail your TTM thing before 8am and the answer is no.
04:13.22Twingyif you're afternoon is free we could work on M2 or something, otherwise if you're doing that vehicle thing...
04:13.38Twingyyou got it
04:13.40polyspinI've got a 1pm with the S2 team lead.
04:13.42Twingyyou got my cell # right?
04:13.52TwingyI was having internet trouble last friday
04:13.59Twingycomcast was down half the day for the first time in about 6 months
04:14.02polyspinI think so.  I'll have to dig up my phone to check
04:14.12Twingyk, feel free to use it
04:14.26polyspinYes, they're pulling cable in my 'hood and re-working their topology big time it seems.
04:14.32Twingyahhhh
04:16.07Twingynight night :)
04:16.48polyspinT: it ends in 62?
04:17.28polyspinstarts with your old area code?
04:17.35Twingythat's old
04:17.43Twingyjust msg'd you the #
04:17.52polyspinthx
04:17.55Twingyif you change your mind and need me in later just holler
04:18.25polyspink
04:18.48polyspinpity brlcad left.  Wanted to ask him about ttm
04:18.53polyspinoh well.
04:19.26brlcadhmm, who what? ..
04:19.49polyspinDid you end up writing any ttm proposals?
04:20.06polyspinI did the basic support and development ones.
04:20.44polyspinI just uploaded it to bz if you want to look.
04:20.58polyspinI did most of it this weekend without the notes from our last meeting. (sigh)
04:26.43brlcadlooks like you already have the items I would have brought forward
04:27.02polyspinwhew.  What a relief
04:27.31brlcadI would have thought/hoped more for the analyst support
04:28.43polyspinThat category was the "everything you don't expect" one.
04:29.23brlcadyeah, which is usually quite a bit :)
04:30.05polyspinHmmm.  If I could quote numbers for what we've done this year it would help.  I don't think we're gonna see more than .5 SY.
04:30.37polyspinRemeber, all the managerial... "stuff" has it's own separate TTM line next year.
04:31.33polyspinI'd love to have more concrete "deliverables" there to bolster the argument.  BTW, that one's likely to get 6.6 funded, not 6.2
04:31.59brlcadhrm, about 1mo from me since fy start (upgrades, installs, answering questions, disuccsions) -- i think you have done a whole lot more in that area
04:33.42polyspinNote I've put in for a minimum of .5 SY
04:38.40polyspinkewl: Asklund's PHD thesis is online. (guy who wrote the paper on OS CMP i've been quoting)
04:39.15polyspinThe thesis is on CM
04:39.21brlcadnice
04:39.58polyspin"Themotivationoftheworkpresentedinthisthesisistoimprovethesupportforpeopleworkingtogether, althoughgeographicallydistributed."
04:41.17brlcadheh
04:41.24brlcadwell, i must hit the zz now -- cya
04:41.41polyspin'nite
04:41.51polyspinI need to sack out too.
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08:41.30cad868help
08:44.28cad868
13:06.38Twingymoo
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18:49.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a few more libraries to the search for a suitable termcap library including terminfo and ocurses (OpenBSD legacy lib)
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19:33.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/Makefile.am: the checks are in place, so really ignore the tcl/tk, itcl, iwidgets directories if configure says we don't need them
19:34.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: ws
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21:17.17pidhashhi !
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23:02.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
23:02.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: add output messages for the tcl/itcl functionality checks to know why it fails
23:02.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: if it fails at run-time. improve the itcl functionality check by decoupling the
23:02.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: test from libtcl symbols -- this will let configure find a useable incrtcl even
23:02.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: if the version of tcl/tk is too old (e.g. 8.3). finally, make tk build again..
23:37.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oops, we need to look for itk too if we want it to link when we're using a system itcl
23:40.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/flags.m4: er, file header should be FLAGS.M4
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050419

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050419

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00:48.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (rtarea.1 Makefile.am): initial rtarea manpage -- this addresses sf tracker #1124228 (listed as a bug, but really a feature/documentation request)
00:54.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added rtarea manpage documentation (sf tracker 1124228)
00:56.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtarea.1: cvs history seems to indicate that John was the original author of viewarea.c
01:07.42brlcadmm.. enough damage until I get some food in me
01:08.04Twingy0xf00d
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05:05.16narnia0xdeadbeef
05:14.05[Prez|Kennedy]0xb00b
05:45.36Twingymeh
05:45.39TwingyI'm hungry
05:59.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/.cvsignore: ignore the jove build products
06:00.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove_term.c: don't duplicate the globals that should be defined by termlib/termcap/curses
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12:46.04harveysHello
12:46.47harveysI am an contractor supporting DoD and have been asked to use a piece of modeling software called MEVA
12:46.59harveysin the install, it also installs BRL-CAD
12:47.24harveysI am uncertain of what version it is, but it now asks the user for a decryption key
12:47.42harveysdoes anyone know who I might need to contact about a decryption key for BRL-CAD?
14:01.21brlcadmmmeevva
14:16.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libcursor/cursor.c: avoid multiple symbols, some of them should be coming from termcap/termlib
14:50.32narniathe nice things about iso 10303 is that it is totally inconsistent. :-(
15:11.02narniathere is no rhyme or reason concerning the iso 10303 aps.
15:12.19narniathe 'official' 10303-201-aim-long.exp is invalid based on my reading of both 10303-11 (editions 1 & 2).
15:36.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: configure substitutes REGEX not REGEX_LIBS
15:39.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tcl.c:
15:39.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: fix asc2g double-free errors. traced it down to this simple free() call being
15:39.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: made when region trees are parsed. An argv array is allocated via
15:39.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: Tcl_SplitListt (supposedly) and Tcl_Free() is supposed to be called (since the
15:39.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: impl might not necessarily allocate, etc)
15:42.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
15:42.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: fixed asc2g double-free warnings bug. this bug occurred due to an erroneous
15:42.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: call to free() after a Tcl_SplitList() -- needed Tcl_Free(). the bug manifested
15:42.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: itself visibly on Mac OS X when linked against the Apple-provided Tcl library
16:25.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: re-engrishify the comment
17:09.48narniabuy, that is an interesting choice for pope.
17:09.54narniaboy, that is an interesting choice for pope.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050420

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050420

04:37.48narniaknock, knock anyone home?
04:39.00learnerindeed
04:39.18narnialearner, you do talk.
04:40.23learnersometimes more than others :)
04:40.51narnialearner, i must admit that this is the first time i have seen you talk.
04:42.04narnialearner, i assumed you were a bot.
04:42.24learnerheh
04:43.37learnervery interesting how the cache coherency is getting stomped with hypersampling increased:
04:43.51learner+++++ moss
04:43.51learner2s real elapsed,        1 ray/pixel,    131072 rays/s
04:43.51learner5s real elapsed,        2 rays/pixel,   104857 rays/s
04:43.51learner15s real elapsed,       4 rays/pixel,   69905 rays/s
04:43.53learner27s real elapsed,       8 rays/pixel,   77672 rays/s
04:43.55learner53s real elapsed,       16 rays/pixel,  79137 rays/s
04:45.33learner... the numbers are only wallclock times with little precision, but still interesting
04:46.12learnernarnia: you've seen me talk before, you just don't remember/know :)
04:46.55narnialearner, perhaps under a different nick?
04:47.19learnerprobably
04:48.16narnialearner, ah brlcad's sock puppet.
04:48.27narnia;-)
04:49.45narnialearner, since you know so much, where is jano?
04:50.19learnerbeats me
04:50.33learnerhaven't talked to him in a while
05:00.11narnialearner, i did battle with iso 10303 all day. i am tired.
05:01.48learnerso take a nap..
05:01.55learner.. and then fire ze missiles!
05:05.58narniamissiles, i do not need no stinking missiles, i have tactial neutron bombs.
05:07.31narniai also have some filled with hersey chocolate to get the little buggers out of their bomb shelters than i neutron them.
05:08.01learnerhmm, i sense you have not seen the end of the world yet
05:08.49learnerhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/endofworld.swf
05:09.02narniathe nbc mini-series 'revelations'?
05:15.42narniasomeone has way to much time on his hands.
05:17.38narniawill probably be some germ we can not even see that will get us.
05:24.08narniahttp://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
05:24.43learner:)
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23:30.20narniaah the joys of 10303.
23:31.28narniaP.S. Representing model types and roles with data strings was a bad idea in 1987, a bad idea in 1994, and a bad idea in 2004.  But we are stuck with it.  This is just one of the many consequent annoyances.  As someone observed in my meeting earlier today: "In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king."  That accounts for a lot of SC4-isms.
23:31.54narniain other words "it is broke but we are not going to fix it."
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050421

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050421

00:42.01brlcadsaw that
02:19.02narniaany thoughts on that peculiar point-of-view?
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04:06.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c:
04:06.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: I created a simple test of a 1cm^3 block and got the wrong volume (reported with
04:06.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: inches despite the database being set to cm). The constat compared to base3local
04:06.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: value was wrong for the g/cm^2 case, as was the text label.
04:06.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: Both are now fixed.
04:11.17brlcadhmm.. i think the manpage says the units must be inches.. but good he fixed it regardless :)
04:11.59brlcadnarnia: well I suspect it's an issue completely outside of control, not that I completely understand the problem myself
04:13.13brlcadhe's a nist guy and has probably as only a small overall influence on the iso spec via the committee agreement
04:13.30brlcadnot to mention all of the vendors that support the "feature" as-is already
04:34.11narniamy point is that several people who did reply are on tc184-sc4 working groups since it is broken yet not fix it.
04:34.47narniathey complain about 10303 not being adopted well perhaps the reason is that it is broken.
04:35.53narniamy answer to ed barkmeyer is going to take awhile to write and it will be long.
04:39.00brlcadwell try not to burn your bridges with them too much :)  probably still need them for information regardless of whether they individually have an influence ..
04:40.09narniai mean look at the replies i received concerning part201. there is no way anyone could claim to have implemented part201. 10303-201-aim-long.exp is hosed. by correcting it it is no longer 'official' 10303-201-aim-long.exp.
04:40.15brlcadi really doubt their adoption issues have much to do with whether it's broken or not .. it took you weeks to figure that out :)
04:40.22brlcadit's too complicated and too expensive
04:40.58narniai totally agree that it is too complicated.
04:41.29brlcadi mean I almost chimed in when the guy mentioned something about purchasing the whole spec ..
04:41.40brlcadthat should not have cost 2k for the small subset I have
04:41.42narniait is a computer program written by committe.
04:42.49narniadespite the continued disclaimer that express language is not a programming language it is a programming language.
04:43.28narniathe whole spec is over 20k.
04:45.36brlcadyep
04:45.56brlcadactually, the impression I got from our librarians was that it was even more than that
04:46.24brlcadstill, point in hand -- rediculous even if the market is niche
04:49.02narniayet another problem is that there is no audit trail. which versions where used to create the long forms. that is basic.
04:52.14narniainstead of fixing the problem they are off doing stepmod project. what programming languages are they using a dialect of common lisp and java (spit, gag, spit).
04:54.05brlcadheh
04:54.18narniai do not know which i dislike more ada or java.
04:56.33brlcadhmm.. i'd have to go with ada on that one
04:57.01brlcadjava has it's uses, ada is just archaic
04:57.35narniai know lisp, have not used it in years but i did program in lisp for awhile. back when expert systems where the current buzz phrase. lisp machines. symbolics computers. symbolics operating systems was called a 'world'. i could crash the 'world' and rebuild it in less than 7 days. ;-)
04:59.31brlcadi like the idea and language features of lisp, the semantics aren't bad either .. syntax is tolerable .. it's just impractical for end-user applications programming imo
04:59.51narniai wrote one java program and that was to prove that java was not going to hack it. ;-)
05:04.25narniaback in 2001 a client of motorola cellular wanted to 'mine' the call records for analysis. they had 1 trillion call records. they wanted to process 1 million call records every 15 minutes and they wanted to use java. my first question for them was if they had any idea how long it would take. they had no clue. i suggested they figure out how many years 15 million minutes was. i them showed them that java would not hack the load of processing that ma
05:04.25narniany call records. i ended up writing it in perl.
05:07.01narniabtw, 15 million minutes is roughly 28.5 yrs.
05:13.14brlcadthe story of my life
05:13.18brlcadas told by perl
05:13.22brlcadnews at 11
05:13.31brlcad(in smalltalk)
05:25.40narniasorry had to whitelist some people.
05:26.41narniaafter two days of just outstanding beautiful weather we are back to normal april weather. cold and damp. :-(
05:28.39brlcadit was mid 80's here today
05:29.39narniawe went from a high of 82 yesterday ( tuesday ) to a high of 52 today ( wednesday ).
05:33.53narniait is currently 45?F Wind Speed: NE 15 MPH Wind Chill:  38?F (3?C)
05:34.22narniasleeping bag night.
06:49.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed rtweight cm units bug
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17:28.47narniawell that is really anti-social. while downloading a file from tc183-sc4.org mozilla blew its little brain out. awlful sight bits oozing out on the desktop from the fatal head wound.
17:46.21narniainteresting topic on a linux channel:: IRC where men are men, women are men, and little girls are FBI agents.
19:05.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtarea doesn't compute an area on smp linux pthreading systems
19:28.00narniabrlcad, any comments or thoughts on my reply to ed barkmeyer of nist?
20:52.37brlcadnarnia: looked pretty tactfully stated/asked ..
20:53.02brlcadmaybe you'll spark some motivation into them to issue a fix
21:10.07narniabrlcad, i could have included more documentation but i figured it was all ready long enough.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050422

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050422

00:26.29narniabrlcad, does ed barkmeyer's reply make sense to you?
00:50.01brlcadsome
00:54.08narniawhich part? i have re-read it several times and to me he side stepped the whole point of my reply and then he went off into deep space with the windows and legacy code argument.
01:13.07Twingypicbrecrysoscillcryscrysthrm
04:09.22narniabrlcad, the most basic point i was attempting to make in my reply to ed barkmeyer was there needs to be a way to check any express language schema for syntax and semantic correctness.
04:10.11narniabrlcad, by allowing undeclared data types to remain in the schema there is no way to do that.
04:11.05narniabrlcad, it would be like saying the c++ complier should not produce an error if an undefined class is found in a source file.
04:11.41narniabrlcad, it would be like saying the c compiler should not produce an error if an undefined structure is found in a source file.
04:16.57narniaany parser needs to have a reference to verify from. what ed barymeyer is saying is that you do not get to have a reference since that code is in reality 'dead' code. it will never be hit therefore it does not matter whether it is syntactically and semantically correct.
04:17.46narniathat to me is totally illogical. if it is in reality 'dead' code remove it.
04:18.55narniaby removing the 'dead' code the resulting express language schema will be syntactically and semantically correct.
04:19.09narniathat does not necessarily mean that the express language schema does anything actually useful.
04:41.58narniathat is no different from c or c++.
04:47.14narniawhy is it that iso standards are written by people in 'ivory' towers and not by the grunts who must make them work?
05:26.29brlcaddevil's advocate, how does this all ultimately matter?  so there's some issues in the schema, but apparently none that can't be either accounted for or ignored
05:27.00brlcadthere are, after all, plenty of existing step file parsers and exporters/importers
05:29.55brlcadand actually from what I understand, he's saying that because some schema has issues (like 203) doesn't mean that the ap 11 syntax is incorrect
05:31.05brlcadmaybe you two are arguing about different things .. the C language itself (his point) or a chunk of C code that's got problems (your point)
05:33.06brlcadeither way, I don't think you're going to get much farther than what you have from him as it is .. and as I pointed out before, he's ultimately just one voice in a much larger/more complicated process as I suspected
05:33.34brlcadso probably good to take it up with the board as he suggests
05:37.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: ws
05:41.34narnia'how does this ultimately matter?' ap203 is just a good glaring example of the problem. ap201 is just plained hosed. other aps have similar problems. there is 'dead' code. there is no way to tell if the schema is in fact syntactically and semantically correct since there are undeclared contructs (mainly type, entity).
05:42.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: surround the pthread timing blocks with USE_FORKED_THREADS define instead of just using linux since there are plenty of linux systems where the statistics hack is not necessary
05:45.11narniai am to tired and in far too much pain to think straight. the cold weather is taking a heavy toll on me. take it from me, growing old sucks. growing old and having multiple physical challenges really sucks.
05:45.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: if we're on a system that needs to USE_FORKED_THREADS to get proper statistics computations, it means that we cannot use global variables to store values so force rtarea to a single CPU so that we at least get the area
05:48.10narniai am mentally tired. not from 10303 or brl-cad work. my bum of a son called tonight looking for yet another handout. i told him no. then he whined to his mother about how mean i am. well i am not the one who blew his college trust fund ( set up by both of his grandfathers ) on a 16 yo. whore.
05:49.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (.cvsignore misc/.cvsignore): brlcad.spec.in moved from top-level to misc/
05:50.00narniato this day i do not know how he managed to blew $40+k in less than 2 yrs and have absolutely nothing and i do mean nothing to show for it.
05:52.51brlcadnot even a really sweet computer setup? :)
05:53.32narniabrlcad, i have absolutely no idea if you are married or not or even have any children. if you are still single and no children may i strongly recommend that you stay that way.
05:54.03narniabrlcad, the computer he had, which he brought back, was one i retired.
05:54.31brlcadi meant that I could see dumping 40k on a computer setup
05:54.42brlcador maybe a downpayment on a viper
05:55.04narnianothing fancy but 950mhz pentium iii with 512 mbyte of ram, dvd drive, nvidia, etc.
05:55.10narnianope
05:55.44narniahe is currently driving a $500.00 usd junk yard special ford van.
05:56.50narniahe was living here for awhile but that did not work out. so he is living with some friend of his from high school.
05:59.28narniahe was whining that he has no gas money. i suggested he find a job. he whined louder.
05:59.55brlcadhe's a teenager I take it?
06:01.16narniahe is 21yo. he will 22yo in december.
06:01.28brlcadah
06:03.13narniaright after graduating high school he married this barely 16 yo whore.
06:04.46narniaat that point a provision of the trust fund kicked in. he received the money in lump sum if he was married instead of yearly while in college. his soon to be ex-wife did not finish high school.
06:06.04narniano he did not go to college.
06:07.18narniamoney is all gone and so is his wife. so much for love. oh wait it was the money she loved not him.
06:08.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed smp linux rtarea calculation bug
06:08.50narniaas you may be able to tell i am not in the best of mode tonight.
06:11.31narniahe will learn in the school of hard knocks. when he reaches my age (assuming that he does ) he can look back and know that he and he alone screwed up.
06:12.56narniai should have hauled him down to the army recuiter and had him enlist after graduation from high school.
06:15.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more arg aliases for png, regex, tcl, itcl
06:15.51narniahopefully none of the 3 children will have any offspring. no sense punishing any offspring for their parents being so stupid.
06:21.11narniadebian update with two large upgrades, gimp and openoffice. :-(
07:04.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (Makefile.am termcap.c tgoto.c tputs.c):
07:04.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: initial termlib library from an early original bsd implementation (that predated
07:04.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: the name change to libtermcap). preserve the name termlib instead of termcap to
07:04.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: reduce confusion with the gnu termcap library implementation. these particular
07:04.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: sources were originally taken from the traditional vi project, though they have
07:04.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: already been patched.
07:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/libterm.h:
07:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: initial termlib library from an early original bsd implementation (that predated
07:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: the name change to libtermcap). preserve the name termlib instead of termcap to
07:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: reduce confusion with the gnu termcap library implementation. these particular
07:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: sources were originally taken from the traditional vi project, though they have
07:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: already been patched.
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13:48.02narniabrlcad, i need to create a map of the various 10303 aps functions/entities to equivalent brl-cad functions. is there a list of brl-cad functions that i would be able to use as a starting point?
13:48.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add libtermlib header
13:51.09brlcadnarnia: there is libwdb, which is the "write-only database" library -- depending on what all needs to be supported, you can create just about any geometry using that fairly simple api (man libwdb)
13:52.59brlcadthe more powerful read/write api that the rest of brl-cad actually uses is librt -- everything is in there
13:53.32brlcadthere's several documents that cover librt, but probably the easiest is to observe one of the existing converters in the src/conv directory
13:56.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/elapsed.sh:
13:56.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: add support for an optional --seconds argument that makes the elapsed script
13:56.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: simply report the number of total seconds that have elapsed instead of the
13:56.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: longer human-readable string. intend to use this feature with the benchmark
13:56.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: suite
14:07.45*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:07.50Twingyhey lee
14:08.07polyspinHey.  Bad news dude, I need you help here today.
14:08.17Twingyno problem, I'm on my way
14:08.22Twingybe there in 20 minutes?
14:08.27polyspinWe've got issues with the Pro/E install and I need someone to talk to other people
14:08.30polyspinThanks
14:08.31polyspinCya?
14:08.41Twingyyep, leaving now, seeya at 10:30
14:08.48polyspinthx
14:14.21narniabrlcad, ap203 does not have a good concept of solids. everything is more surface orientated.
14:15.05narniabrlcad, ap203 definitely has no concept of constructive solid geometry (csg).
14:34.50brlcadpolyspin: i'll be in a few too
14:35.13polyspingreat!  I could use your help on re-compiling Pro/E
14:35.25brlcadnarnia: i'm aware of that.. 214 covers csg
14:35.51brlcadpolyspin: you did see my note that cad is back on-line, I hope?
14:42.55narniabrlcad, i looked at most of the /src/conv .c files and so far none give me a warm fuzzy feeling. i think i am blazing a new trail.
14:59.13polyspinnarnia:  If you are converting brep geometry, you are probably looking at generating "bot" primitives.
14:59.35polyspinLine drawings should come in as NMG primitives
15:07.26polyspinbrlcad: yes I saw the note.  I've forwarded to others info about Pro/E
15:15.22narniapolyspin, basically a .stp file may have advances brep solids, faceted brep solids, manifold surfaces with topology, wireframe with topology, surfaces and wireframes without topology.
15:17.06narniapolyspin, i am still wading through several .stp files i have to get a handle on mapping them to brl-cad.
15:18.10narniawhat do 'bot' and 'nmg' stand for?
15:23.56polyspinHmmm.  Interesting.  "Bot" is a "Bag of Triangles" and "NMG" is "Non-manifold geometry"
15:24.23polyspinThe NMG object allows you to store topological faceted geometry
15:24.59polyspinThe "surfaces without topology" would become a BOT
15:25.10polyspinthe wireframes would all be NMG primitives
15:26.07polyspinfaceted brep solids should probably be BoTs unless we don't want to triangulate the facets, in which case NMG is appropriate
15:27.11polyspinThe only item we would have difficulty with is spline surfaces.  While there is support for spline primitives, it is not as complete as the others
15:34.35narniapolyspin, so a b-spline surface with knots may not map easily?
15:36.44polyspinA simle B-spline surface maps.  It just doesn't edit as well
15:37.09polyspinTrimmed spline surfaces are harder.  I don't think that work was completed in the BRL-CAD library.
15:39.38polyspinI'd be thrilled with a converter that just read the STEP components BRL-CAD could represent
15:40.01brlcadis that an understatement? :)
15:40.38polyspinyes
15:41.16brlcadi am in, btw .. wading through e-mail
15:41.34polyspinDuck under the desk, I'm walking your way.
15:41.46brlcadhehe
15:58.25narniai be thrilled with a coherent step standard that could be read. ;-)
16:03.14polyspinstandard=readable is an amusing concept.  I have seen very few that were
16:12.29brlcadnarnia: if it feels like you're blazing a new trail, it's because for you you are with respect to knowing brl-cad's interfaces :)
16:13.33brlcadnarnia: the g-iges converter is probably the closest to the complexity that you're working with in step and that lives in src/iges instead of conv due to it's complexity
16:13.59brlcadi don't say that so that you use it as a reference, more so that you know in case it is of interest
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17:05.47narniasrc/iges is the closest converter. will still be blazing a new trail.
17:07.43*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (~justin@pcp0011643033pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
17:26.49brlcadthe step converter itself shouldn't need to be nearly as complicated as the iges converter ended up being simply because a majority of the format itself is being parsed by the express library
17:28.49narniathat is true to some extent. i am going to have to 'play' with it to get a good idea. crash and burn time. ;-)
17:30.00narniait is difficult to type wit a cat sitting on me.
17:31.21narniai found a song that should be iso 10303 theme song.
17:31.42narniaqueen's 'Pain Is So Close To Pleasure' ;-)
17:36.02narniahttp://www.lyriczz.com/print.php?songid=6870
17:46.55*** join/#brlcad alryr (~larryr@cpe-66-91-224-213.san.res.rr.com)
17:52.35alryrI have a newbie question.
17:52.38alryrIs there some sort of "text" object?
18:45.52*** part/#brlcad alryr (~larryr@cpe-66-91-224-213.san.res.rr.com)
19:12.16narniajust what i need some anti-social person is spamming sourceforge lists.
19:13.25narniathere should be a hunting season on spammers and scammers, or do they fall under the varmit hunting season?
19:14.38narniaa few televised public executions of a few spammers and scammers would sovle a good portion of the spam and scam problems.
19:21.02polyspinThough it was quite nice a few days ago
19:21.35Twingy_narnia: http://www.rt.cx/~justin/images/electronics_bins.jpg
19:46.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/Makefile.am: build termlib if we're configured to build termlib
19:47.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): s/CURSES/TERMLIB/ we actually don't need CURSES so refer to the library that we really need, termlib/termcap
20:08.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
20:08.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: add checks for automatic termlib detection supplanting the need for the user to
20:08.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: install a termlib/termcap/curses library so the build should no longer fail for
20:08.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: that reason (since it will build it if it's not found). rename the png and
20:08.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: regex ac_subst defines while we're at it for consistency. also force tk to on
20:08.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: for real..
20:18.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: (log message trimmed)
20:18.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: major reworking of the benchmark to iteratively double the number of rays being
20:18.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: fired until the individual test requires takes at least a minimum predetermined
20:18.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: amount of wallclock time (currently set to 60 seconds per test). the number of
20:18.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: rays is doubled via hypersampling 1+N hypersample rays with jitter disabled.
20:18.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: the amount of time may be specified via the TIMEFRAME environment variable.
20:18.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: having the longer run time will help the rtfm numbers stabilize better and lets
20:38.04narniaTwingy, what am i suppose to look at?
20:38.57Twingy_bought a few parts bins last night from sears
20:39.20Twingy_building an online inventory system for myself, bins are labeled A0 - A9 .. R0 - R9
20:39.28Twingy_calling it Migikey :)
20:45.50brlcadnarnia: just nod and say "mmhmm, okay"
20:52.18narniaTwingy, you do realize that is the first sign of a 'sick' mind.
20:52.23narniaTwingy, ;-)
20:52.43narniaoh joy freezing rain just in time for the weekend.
20:52.57Twingy_I gotta go running this crap
20:53.05Twingy_today is day 48 of 50
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050423

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050423

02:01.40*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@69.250.146.28)
02:01.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: fixed an off-by-one error, cleaned up the .density file parsing.
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05:04.49narniabrlcad, does brd-cad grok BoM (bills of material)?
13:36.03narniait is downright cold here. :-(
13:51.23dan_falckhow cold?
13:51.42dan_falckdid you get an ice storm?
14:49.09narniadan_falck, had some freezing rain last night. yesterday had snow flurries.
15:19.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (weight.sh Makefile.am): added regression test for rtweight.
16:31.18brlcadnarnia, you've asked that before :)
16:32.29brlcadnarnia: it can support bom information via object attributes, but there is not explicit support for them
16:55.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: orignal gangstas use consistent style
17:13.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libregex/Makefile.am: don't prevent the lib from building if they go directly to the directory
17:17.17ewilhelm_brlcad, have you heard of stow?
17:18.52ewilhelm_It lets you keep install a tree under /usr/local/stow/brlcad and link-farm it into the appropriate directories under /usr/local/ (bin/, etc/, etc.)
17:19.26ewilhelm_xstow is another version (done in C++ instead of Perl)
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20:41.46brlcadewilhelm_: no I hadn't, interesting idea I'll have to look into .. thx
20:52.42brlcadthat is fairly interesting
20:52.51brlcadI wonder how many packages actually use stow/xstow
20:54.36brlcador probably the better question is how many package-managed distributions support stow's linkages on a filesystem policy organization level
23:17.29ewilhelm_I think it's more an administrator-level thing.
23:17.52ewilhelm_e.g. checkinstall is one way to track built-from-source apps within your package system
23:18.20ewilhelm_(maybe 'checkinstall -D xstow brlcad' would be one way to do it?)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050424

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050424

04:58.53narniabrlcad, did you ever get your time on the document machine?
05:12.44Twingywoo, inventory system is done
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05:59.20Jeebaryook who has got this running for osx may i ask?
06:00.33Jeebaryoive installed the x11 sdk and all, but I am an IDE kind of guy, and this is a little daunting, do I need to sudo every command when compiling? help me out
06:09.50Twingyhi narnia
06:26.36narniaJeebaryo, brlcad would be the person to talk to.
06:26.48narniaTwingy, hello, how goes it?
06:49.40Twingyhey
06:49.42Twingygood
06:49.52Twingyfinished making my rocket body today
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07:25.35narniaTwingy, how big is this rocket?
07:51.37Twingy4 feet not including nose cone
07:51.52Twingy~300lbs of thrust
07:52.03Twingytotal mass ~2kg
08:49.57brlcadeebaryo:
08:50.00brlcader
08:50.08narniaTwingy, sorry was reading some really boring parts of 10303.
08:50.09brlcadJeebaryo: no, you don't need to sudo every command
08:50.36narniaTwingy, any pictures?
08:54.11brlcadJeebaryo: perhaps this will work better for you: http://ftp.brlcad.org/BRL-CAD-7.2.3.dmg
08:55.38brlcadJeebaryo: that's a snapshot build I recently made from cvs (so few guarantees..), it will install BRL-CAD into /usr/brlcad
08:56.18brlcadyou'll need to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path (export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH) of course
08:56.53brlcadif you really are just interested in compiling, ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make .. then sudo make install
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19:50.57narniabrlcad, i do not remember all the iso 10303 parts you ordered. did you order any iso 10303 part-4x  or 10303 part5xx ?
23:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
23:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: Utilize the new BC_ARG_ENABLE, BC_ARG_ALIAS, BC_ARG_WTIH, BC_ARG_WITH_ALIAS
23:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: macros. This change simplifies argument/alias specifications, shortening the
23:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: line count, making their logic more consistent and simple to maintain. this
23:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: change does add the new requirement of more strict yes/no argument value instead
23:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: of the previous implicit 'not no means yes'
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050425

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050425

00:25.12*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm_ (~ewilhelm@c-67-171-188-54.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
01:34.49ewilhelm_brlcad, it looks like dxf-g ignores the normal vector of circles?
01:37.18ewilhelm_that would be the codes 210,220,230
01:41.12ewilhelm_oo!  yet another rgb list!
01:43.21ewilhelm_I've yet to see two of these that match.  Would anybody get mad if it changes?
01:45.07ewilhelm_I've got three or four of these now, and don't know which one to use!
01:46.26ewilhelm_at least we all agree on the translation of ACI->RGB for 0-7, but it looks like a free-for-all after that :-)
01:52.58ewilhelm_neat.  1-6 are redundant (at least in all of these translations)  I would doubt the translations if AD hadn't already shown themselves to be a bunch of ninnys in so many other ways.
02:01.44brlcadewilhelm_: I wouldn't be surprised -- the dxf-g converter is relatively new/immature
02:02.32brlcadewilhelm_: I don't think anyone would get mad, but I believe it was pulled from the specification -- would have to ask the original author
02:59.34ewilhelm_spec?  as in the dxf spec?
03:06.37ewilhelm_don't see anything in the dxf2000 spec, but there's something in the knowledge base.  I'll check that.
03:06.53ewilhelm_(after dinner)
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05:43.44ewilhelm__yep.  Looks like the dxf-g rgb conversion came straight off of the autodesk knowledge base
05:44.38ewilhelm__too bad that it doesn't come out to an integer when you take their "pantone colors" *255
05:50.11ewilhelm__everything comes out even when I use 2^64-1.  Is pantone 192-bit color or something?
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07:05.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cmd.c:
07:05.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: make sure the command list is initialized before attempting to add an entry. if
07:05.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: cmdInit() has some step that fails for any particular reason, it returns early.
07:05.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: this was causing the crash (for example when incrtcl or incrtk failed to locate
07:05.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: their startup script) and probably should be rethought, though the 'broken
07:05.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: install' case is rather abnormal and unsupported.
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16:07.57fooooothis is a test
16:08.08fooooohmm.. firefox seems to work just fine
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22:25.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: cygwin's pthread.h is not compatible with sched.h so make sure we try to use both in the sched.h test (so that it gets disabled)
22:43.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: make sure the IRIX preprocessor symbol is even defined before jumping into an if IRIX < value section or we can get in when we shouldn't
23:07.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libcursor/cursor.c: use the same terminal library inclusion order that configure used otherwise cygwin pulls out his angry eyes
23:31.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: the executable extension variable must be used when running binaries or specifying build dependencies on executables for systems that require an executable suffix (windows fix)
23:37.06*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm_ (~ewilhelm@c-67-171-188-54.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
23:38.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/extern.h: get rid of the antiquated define checks for lrand48 vs. random -- they should be HAVE_ macro checks if they really are necessary anyways and they break/conflict the cygwin build
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050426

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050426

00:31.46narniabrlcad, why are you turning to the dark side?
00:32.09brlcadheh
00:32.52brlcadI'm just dancing in the shadows right now
00:33.00brlcadworking in Studio would be the dark side
00:36.18brlcadBRL-CAD should work "everywhere" though, both the good the bad and the ugly
00:38.17narniaokay, good == anything unix like (linux, the bsds, macosx) ugly == anything microsoft so what is bad?
00:38.44narniabad == os/2 ????
00:38.53narniacp/m
00:39.01narniadr. dos
00:39.05brlcad:)
00:39.37brlcadi would have probably said anything ms is the bad
00:39.38narniabrl-cad should run under cp/m and os/2
00:39.46brlcados/2 and etc are the ugly :)
00:40.10narniawhat???? cp/m rules.
00:40.16brlcadvms
00:40.30narniabad == vms
00:40.34narniaagreed
00:40.41brlcadheh
00:41.42narniabtw, wednesday is will be out. gary's funeral prye and memorial service is wednesday.
00:41.43brlcadwouldn't be too hard to get a minimal subset on palmos
00:42.27brlcadbrl-cad started on machines with less resources than the current power/size of the palms
00:43.22brlcadwould have to make an input driver and framebuffer/dm interface
00:43.55brlcadshould be possible to run classic mged, raytrace into the window
00:44.52narniacoming on your cellular telephone brl-cad. :-)
00:45.36brlcadheh, it's possible!
00:45.47brlcadsolid modeling while on the road..
00:45.57brlcad"hold on.. lemme sketch up the idea for you"
00:51.15brlcadwoo.. mged just linked successfully
00:51.33brlcadi think I'll be done with this within the half hour if not less
00:59.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: this FreeSolid list is private to librt
01:00.52brlcadindeed
01:01.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_arb.c: the earb tables are provided by librt now instead of from the mged front end
01:01.05brlcadchanserv must have segfaulted
01:01.20brlcador CIA sensed me working in cygwin
01:37.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check the term.h header with the other terminal library crew libraries to ensure compatibility when used together when multiple are available
01:39.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_solid.h: comment that the globals are brought to life in dozoom.c
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02:03.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dozoom.c: ws
02:06.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (anal.c edarb.c edsol.c): the earb# arrays and the arb_faces array are now provided by librt directly instead of in the mged front-end
02:15.47[Prez|Kennedy]time for my first reboot in 15 days
02:16.07[Prez|Kennedy]lets hope the thing comes back up... last time i went so long without rebooting... it didnt :-\
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02:22.54*** join/#brlcad Jegga (~guest@h219-110-187-067.catv02.itscom.jp)
02:23.42PrezKennedyguess it worked
02:24.35JeggaYou there Sean?
02:24.44brlcadhello
02:25.15JeggaHi its Jesse, your osx kid -lGL
02:25.22brlcadahh, howdy ;)
02:25.43brlcadwas that any better?
02:25.57Jeggaone thing you said about x11 being in my utils concerns me... in apps/utilities or in development/apps/utilities?
02:26.23brlcadit should be in apps/utilities
02:26.32brlcadat least in 10.3.*
02:26.47brlcadwhite icon.. says X11
02:27.04Jeggahmm, Im pretty sure I installed it, but I dont see x11 in there
02:27.16brlcadshould be near the end of the list
02:27.22dan_falckbrlcad:thanks for the OS X *.dmg
02:27.31Jeggabut neway didnt the config output show that x11 present (ala my last post)
02:27.37brlcaddan_falck: np
02:27.37Jegga????? the dmg is up?
02:27.40dan_falckgot it running
02:27.56brlcaddan_falck: it doesn't set up your environment for you, so you would have had to modify your path minimally
02:28.25brlcadJegga: I have a test .dmg binary build
02:28.25dan_falcksu mged
02:28.31brlcadheh, you have a user named mged? :)
02:28.38Jeggaim trying you last sugg now Sean, perhaps all the blood sweat and tears for nothing?
02:28.55brlcadJegga: not necessarily ..
02:29.08dan_falckyeah, I need to set up permissions right. Can't seem to start a new database yet
02:29.09brlcadyou have to find X11.app though  :)
02:29.10JeggaI still feel like a 13 year old buying drugs when using the command line
02:29.12brlcadregardless
02:29.32brlcaddan_falck: ahh, thanks
02:29.34Jeggaokeydokey searching...
02:29.45brlcadI was scratching my head last night trying to remember what I needed to make sure I fixed..
02:29.48brlcadit was the permissions
02:30.05brlcadJegga: try just searching on X11 and/or X11.app
02:30.19Jeggadoing so
02:31.19brlcaddan_falck: I'd forgotten that the dmg installs itself with my user id.. not good for you :)
02:31.31brlcadyou should be able to fix it with:
02:32.35brlcadsudo find /usr/brlcad -exec chown dan_faulk:admin {} \;
02:33.34brlcadreplace dan_falck with whatever your user id is or root
02:37.04brlcadJegga: what does this output from within Terminal?  ls -la /Applications/Utilities/X11.app
02:37.42dan_falckbrlcad: thanks. I now own all the stuff within the brlcad directory
02:37.44brlcadsomething saying Contents, or file/directory not found?
02:38.01brlcaddan_falck: make sure / and /usr are owned correctly too
02:38.15brlcadpackage installers write up the heirarchy
02:38.26brlcadls -lad /
02:38.30brlcadls -lad /usr
02:38.58dan_falckI can create a new database. It must be working
02:39.33brlcadwell, if you're uncertain, you can always run Disk Utility and it will repair the permissions too
02:40.00dan_falckok. thanks.
02:40.26dan_falcknow I need to start reading the manual and create something.
02:40.27brlcad(automatically via a click of the "Repair Permissions" button)
02:40.44Jeggait outputs the sinking feeling that I dont have x11 installed, specially since I cant find it with sherlock
02:41.03JeggaIm currently scouring the cd
02:41.04brlcadJegga: hrm.. you _had_ it installed at one point :)
02:41.16brlcadconfigure says so ..
02:41.18Jeggaconfigure still tells me its there
02:41.35brlcadconfigure is saying that it found the X11 libraries and headers
02:41.43brlcadthe X11 application is what's missing
02:42.01JeggaI am goin to reboot in expert install to see if I can fix it up
02:42.08brlcadJegga: do you just want the binary?
02:42.09Jeggaahh, the compile failed right on time
02:42.23brlcador are you really intent on building it?
02:42.28Jeggalet me try the stuporuser install
02:42.36Jeggawell Ive come this far...
02:42.45Jeggabut the binary would be nice
02:42.56brlcadyou will have to install the X11 application again apparently, regardless
02:42.59Jeggagood luck getting a file through my japanese isp
02:43.20Jeggamsn usually works, but ... be back in about 15
02:43.27Jeggathanks for all the help so far
02:43.29brlcadokie dokie
03:04.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: rt_verbosity is apparently being provided by liboptical, so don't repeat the symbol
03:12.06*** join/#brlcad Jegga (~guest@h219-110-187-067.catv02.itscom.jp)
03:14.54Jeggabrlcad: strange, when I reboot with the osx dvd it will let me install x11 but not without reinstalling osx and reverting my system to 10.3.7 - launching the "bundled software only" pkg doest give an option to install just x11, only the fruity tools and office demos
03:15.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/rtsrv.c:
03:15.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: rt_verbosity is being provided by liboptical, so don't need to repeat it here in
03:15.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: the front end. also get rid of the silly SYSV checks and replace them with more
03:15.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: appropriate preprocessor macros vars HAVE_SYS_IOCTL_H and TIOCNOTTY.
03:15.29brlcadhmm, okay
03:15.39brlcadyou can download it from the website
03:16.26Jeggafrom apple?
03:16.50brlcadyes
03:17.12brlcadthough they've moved the page with all the new pages for tiger
03:19.12brlcadhttp://www.apple.com/support/downloads/x11formacosx.html
03:19.17Jeggafinalement tabernac c'est comme microsoft, un peu
03:19.37Jeggaoui j'ai vu ca juste maintenant
03:19.48Jeggafrench works better than swearing
03:19.48brlcad~translate fr en finalement tabernac c'est comme microsoft, un peu
03:20.25Jeggatabernacle is a french swearword eh? in canadian french eh?
03:22.06brlcadafter you install that download from apple, (re?)install the X11 SDK too
03:22.22Jeggawhy?, for configuration?
03:22.47brlcadit's normally on the developer cd only, so I've put it here for your convenience:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/X11SDK.pkg.tar.gz
03:23.13brlcadyes, for configuration -- just to make sure you have all the necessary pieces
03:23.26Jeggayeah I have it in my xcode tools/packages directory on my dvd
03:24.07brlcadis this system one that's been upgraded since 10.0 or 10.1 ?
03:24.57Jeggabrand new with 10.3.7
03:25.07brlcadhrm, so odd
03:25.11Jeggaand not enough memory
03:25.18brlcadmaybe you accidentally deleted X11 at some point
03:25.53brlcador moved it to a place finder can't see it
03:26.00Jeggaat first I was doing most  of this from a diff account called dev (not an admin) and that gave me a bit of hassle, specially since visudo made me shit my pants
03:26.00brlcad"locate X11.app" would tell you
03:26.32brlcadyou shouldn't need to sudo until the actual sudo make install
03:26.36Jeggaso I switched in to my base acct, and perhaps I had installed x11 in the other one, should make a diff though right?
03:26.57brlcadx11 should have come preinstalled on a 10.3 system
03:27.23Jeggathats what I thought, but I upgraded to 10.3.9 first thing
03:27.43brlcadshouldn't matter, we have lots of machines like that here
03:27.44Jeggaif this is apple giving me a crap video card in the mac mini Im going on a holy war
03:28.23brlcadno no .. you've not even gotten that far yet
03:28.30brlcadI've compiled and ran on a mini already too
03:28.51Jeggayou should be a mental health councillor
03:29.11Jeggayou make everything all right
03:29.23brlcadthat would be just crazy of me :)
03:31.21Jeggahows performance on the mini? am I gonna kick myself for not getting something faster?
03:32.02brlcaddepends completely on your expectations .. ;)
03:32.18brlcadI think they are impressive little machines.. beautiful
03:32.20Jeggalow, is it shaded and rea time? Im happy if so
03:32.29brlcaddecent processor
03:32.56Jeggahell its snappy compared to my wintel laptop that was twice as much used
03:33.14brlcadmged (brl-cad's gui-based solid modeler) does have an experimental shaded mode that you can enable, though it is off by default
03:33.51Jeggaahh well, bells and whistles
03:33.53brlcadthe "second generation" mged that is yet to be released (archer) is shaded
03:34.20brlcad(yet to be released by us, that is -- it's used in production already)
03:34.46Jeggaone last q: how do I install this so that its in my apps folder and available from any account? or is it already set for that?
03:35.20brlcadthe completely new solid modeler under development by yours truely will also have several display modes possible (shaded, wireframe, edge, points, etc)
03:36.43Jegga... <<Jesse Crosses Fingers, Knocks on Wood, and incises assembly code on his forehead in blood to appease the compile gods>> ...
03:37.07brlcadJegga: you'll need to edit a certain file with a text editor for it to be available for all users..  run:
03:37.21brlcadopen /etc/profile
03:37.25brlcadfrom Terminal
03:37.35brlcadit should pop open that file in text editor
03:37.47brlcaddo you see a line that starts with PATH=... ?
03:38.16brlcadoh wow, brl-cad is now fully compiled in cygwin.. w00t
03:39.13JeggaI guess that means you have other things to do now ;) with any luck Ill be running in .5 hours
03:39.22Jeggayeah i got the paths line here
03:39.32JeggaPATH="/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin"
03:39.32Jeggaexport PATH
03:39.37brlcadgreat
03:39.43brlcadedit that PATH= line so that it says:
03:40.00brlcadPATH="/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/brlcad/bin"
03:40.13brlcadsave the file, close it
03:40.15Jeggadunkeshien
03:40.26JeggaI can do this before compile is done?
03:40.31brlcadyes
03:40.57brlcadneed to do the same thing with /etc/bashrc
03:41.02brlcadopen /etc/bashrc
03:41.14brlcadadd the same PATH= line, and the export PATH line
03:41.24brlcadsave the file, close it
03:41.29Jeggawhoa, unix newbie, how to save the file and xit?
03:41.58brlcadwhen you ran "open /etc/profile", it will pop open the file in TextEdit (the apple gui text editor)
03:42.07brlcadgo to the menu.. :)
03:42.13brlcadFile -> Save :)
03:42.43Jeggasorry looked like a terminal
03:42.52Jegganeway it wont let me overwrite
03:43.04Jegga:/
03:43.06brlcadahh, yes
03:43.19brlcadyou'd have to be a priv user
03:43.23Jeggashould i do all this logged in as root ?
03:43.31brlcadyou could
03:43.45brlcadnot "all" .. but the editing of /etc/profile and /etc/bashrc yes
03:44.19Jeggahmm kay, brb then
03:44.23brlcadthere are ways to do it without logging in as root if you want me to take you through it
03:44.32Jeggaplease do master
03:44.43JeggaI shall call you sensei
03:45.28brlcadk, gimmie a sec
03:47.48brlcadokay, so you did the open /etc/profile, yes?
03:47.55brlcadand you have it edited in TextEdit
03:47.59Jeggayeah, all editing done
03:48.06Jeggaboth files
03:48.06brlcadsave the file to your Desktop
03:48.13brlcadsave both files to your desktop
03:48.22brlcadsame name
03:48.40brlcador name them whatever.. doesn't really matter :)
03:48.53Jeggagotcha
03:48.53Jeggadone
03:49.03brlcadgo to Terminal
03:49.07brlcadls -la ~/Desktop/profile
03:49.08Jeggaya
03:49.15brlcadoutputs what?
03:50.06Jeggals: /Desktop/profile: No such file or directory
03:50.24Jegga???
03:50.28brlcad~
03:50.31brlcad~/Desktop/profile
03:50.36Jeggasorry
03:50.40brlcad~ is the key next to the 1 key
03:51.41Jeggaon mine its over by the yen sign :) -rw-r--r--  1 jesse  jesse  142 26 Apr 12:48 /Users/jesse/Desktop/profile
03:51.51brlcadahh, true :)
03:52.07brlcadgood good
03:52.15brlcadls -la ~/Desktop/bashrc
03:52.35Jegga-rw-r--r--  1 jesse  jesse  225 26 Apr 12:48 /Users/jesse/Desktop/bashrc
03:52.38brlcadgreat
03:52.42brlcadnow run:
03:52.54brlcadsudo cp ~/Desktop/profile /etc/profile
03:53.03brlcadsudo cp ~/Desktop/bashrc /etc/bashrc
03:53.10brlcadthe first one should prompt you for your password
03:54.35Jeggaokey dokey, we just copied our permissioned copy over the system files right?
03:55.00Jeggaslick
04:00.12brlcadright
04:00.17brlcaduse sudo with care :)
04:00.24brlcadespecially with regards to rm
04:00.44Jeggano kidding, I have broken a few linuxes in the past
04:00.50Jeggawell, only one or two
04:01.00brlcadso now your path is set up, so when you run X11, it should find brl-cad just fine for any user
04:01.13Jeggawhat so sudo rm -rf * is a no no?
04:01.22brlcaddepends on where you are :)
04:01.58Jeggawell, I still dont know how to get to /dev/hda1 so I should be all right :)
04:02.16Jeggaif you ever need a guinea pig (cause I got no skills otherwise) let me know
04:02.21brlcadthems dangerous words :)
04:02.33Jeggawell, at least for software
04:02.51brlcadthems still dangerous words :)
04:03.23brlcadyou'll probably be too exhausted or mad once you get it all working ;)
04:03.37brlcadJegga: you have downloaded the users manuals?
04:03.38Jeggalol, I need to got to work in 20 min
04:03.43brlcadthey're on the website
04:03.53brlcadokay
04:04.01Jeggabut Ill get it up tonight - then my girlfreind will be mad
04:04.18brlcadso, path is set up.. did you download/install X11 from apple?
04:04.46Jeggayes, which is evidenced by this much longer compile Im experiencing
04:05.03brlcadahh, that sounds good then
04:05.05JeggaAn error now would really make me sad
04:05.32brlcadif you get another error, we'll just install the binary
04:05.58brlcadI should have posted it two months ago, but wasn't comfortable with the scripting yet
04:07.59brlcadwoo hoo .. BRL-CAD benchmark run completely and correctly through cygwin
04:08.00Jeggayeah well life is learning, I gotta find the time (as if there would ever be enough) to learn my Unix
04:08.59Jeggayeah, now just prey the spyware doesnt kill it :)
04:09.53Jegga:)
04:10.00Jeggathis is like watching pro sports
04:10.12brlcadpeople have been clamoring for this for _years_.. looks like it's done
04:11.10Jeggahey man when I found out that I could compile this on a mac I went to akihabara and initiated a month of poverty
04:11.19Jeggafed up with windows anyway
04:11.27brlcadYou witnesed it here, the first full port of BRL-CAD to Windows (we've been on Win for years, just this makes the first full port)
04:11.50Jeggabut will it run on my 800MHz laptop with no OpenGL?
04:11.53brlcadhehe, yeah, I hear ya.. I don't use windows myself
04:12.04brlcados x is my primary platform (as it is for most of us around here)
04:12.32brlcadbrl-cad does not need opengl inherintly, it can work
04:12.33ewilhelm_lol!  apple is a defense contractor?
04:12.37Jegga<<Jesse Waxes poetic and minimizes all his windows in slo-mo>>
04:12.58brlcadour new build system isn't that flexible to let you turn off opengl yet very easily (unless you know how to edit configure.ac text files)
04:13.21Jeggaahh, more fun ahead on windows...
04:13.30brlcadi'm sure apple probably is a defense contractor, though I dont' see the relation :)
04:13.39brlcadmost large companies are
04:14.05Jeggawell how did you become the brl-cad guy?
04:14.19ewilhelm_you haven't heard the $100 screwdriver saw?
04:14.39ewilhelm_(oops mixed a metaphor with an actual tool there)
04:14.42brlcadi could care less about the port to windows myself .. could have done it years ago if I really wanted -- it's been very low on my priority list that it's finally now simple as a side effect to other work I completed
04:15.01Jeggacygwin helps eh?
04:15.28brlcadit helps a bit, get to use the same build system
04:15.37brlcadinstead of replicating it all in Studio
04:16.02brlcadI did that years ago for kicks and knew that wouldn't work for long term maintenance
04:17.05brlcadnow I need to test out mingw and msys
04:17.34brlcadbut that can be for another day .. too much windows for one day already :)
04:17.39Jeggahmm, thousands of lines of code for kicks, Im still trying to convert characters to ints and back to characters .. lol
04:18.33brlcadheh
04:18.43brlcadso you're learning to code?
04:19.33narniaokay, how bad/ugly does code have to be before you just discard it and start over?
04:20.08brlcadnarnia: pretty darn bad, imo .. and it's a function of line/feature count
04:21.26brlcadmged, for example, is a great case for an app that needs to be (and is being) rewritten
04:21.52Jeggaya leaning for the 4th time
04:21.59Jeggaleaning = learning
04:22.14brlcadthat refactoring is major, though, and will ultimately be very expensive to ultimately reimplement no matter how good the libraries and tools are you have to work with
04:22.14JeggaI guess now Ill start with objective c
04:22.41Jeggasomething about the word WinClass makes me queasy
04:23.02brlcadi'm rather fond of objective C myself
04:23.25narniai have an old nist source file. given the coding styles persent in the file there are at least 7 different authors.
04:23.35brlcadthe smalltalkish objectification of C was a cleaner way to go, albeit the syntax is fugly
04:23.59brlcadnarnia: run it through indent? :)
04:26.11Jegga<<Jessy adorns battle armor and consigns himself to the dungeons of Smiley's English Conversation School>> ttyal
04:26.25Jeggathanks a million - make completed successfully
04:27.12brlcadexcellent
04:27.21brlcadnow try "make benchmark"
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04:31.12brlcadmake benchmark will run several standard raytraces that test system performance and verify that the render library is working correctly
04:31.43brlcadif it says CORRECT for all the tests, you can then run "sudo make install"
04:32.05brlcadthen you can run X11, and should be able to type "mged" to get the solid modeler
05:14.13brlcadwell, off to foodage i think
05:26.06Twingyhttp://www.bigzaphod.org/cow/
05:58.41narniaTwingy, do you have any pictures of your rocket?
06:09.24narniaTwingy, would you have the need of a steel table 14ft by 7ft-7in by 1.25inches. that is just the top. the legs and frame are steel i-beams. the table top weighs just under 3 tons.
06:22.57Twingyah
06:22.58Twingypossibly
06:23.11Twingybut not for another year or so, when I move to a bigger house
06:23.28Twingypictures of rocket will probly go up in 2 weeks
06:24.16Twingycheck out my inventory
06:24.19Twingywww.rt.cx/migikey
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06:44.33narniaTwingy, i get "Authorization Required"
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06:49.28Twingyyes
06:49.33Twingyclick ok
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06:52.53Twingynight
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07:05.23ewilhelm_wow.  Now *that's* a table top
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07:13.40cad107dan_falck: /who
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07:19.20brlcadhello daniel
07:19.44brlcadgoodbye daniel
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07:20.24brlcadprogress?
07:21.06brlcadd_rossberg: a message made it through earlier ..
07:21.22brlcadcan you write?
07:21.34d_rossbergapparently, at last I had a problem with my nick name: there was already a rossberg in
07:22.00brlcadyep, already a rossberg
07:22.01brlcad03:21 -!- rossberg [~rossberg@groove.ps.uni-sb.de]
07:22.01brlcad03:21 -!-  ircname  : Andreas Rossberg
07:22.01brlcad03:21 -!-  channels : #sml #ocaml #haskell
07:22.02brlcad0
07:22.43brlcadso you were able to get cgi:irc working apparently
07:22.55brlcadwhat finally made it work?
07:24.16d_rossberga call with our IT people, they made some changes for me :-)
07:24.34brlcadahh, special exceptions :)
07:25.42d_rossbergWhat time is it in the US? 3:30?
07:25.48brlcadyes
07:27.09d_rossberghow about taking a nap?
07:27.35brlcadsoon :)
07:28.08brlcadmade good code progress today, so it's been a late day
07:28.56brlcadd_rossberg: can you ssh out?
07:41.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: Turn on SMP support for Windows, get rid of the cruft
07:47.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/std.h: get rid of the old apparently unused IRIX3_3 define
07:54.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: if/when someone compiles on irix 5 again, we can refactor the build logic for a proper configure check instead of defining _BSD_COMPAT for undocumented reasons
07:56.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: use HAVE_SYSLOG_H define from configure
07:57.03brlcadd_rossberg: you are utc/gmt+1 ?
08:06.18d_rossbergI'm GMT+1, UTC+2 (daylight saving time)
08:06.51brlcadahh, so almost lunchtime :)
08:15.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: make sure the irix define is defined before parsing a value via #if
08:16.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_4d.c: remove stale/unused debug log message
08:24.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make sure sys/types.h was found before using it
08:28.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtermio/termio.c: use the configure check header file macros for fcntl.h and sys/file.h
08:32.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: remove the old irix _BSD_COMPAT hack, needs to be a configure check if anyone ever tries compiling there again
08:40.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (do.c viewedge.c): use if defined() preprocessor checks for the symbols so cygwin behaves
08:41.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: is IRIX even defined? check it
08:49.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/std.h: remove the old define cruft letting someone refactor again later via proper configure checks if they are even actually still needed.
13:04.58JeggaCan anyone tell me how to turn on shaded mode in 7.2.2?
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14:15.13narniaargh, indent does not grok macros.
14:37.10Jeggabrlcad: you awake?
14:37.47Jeggatell me the ways of turning on real time shading oh master
17:35.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: force itcl to on by default instead of auto until a suitable means to find the ITCL_LIBRARY can be found
17:38.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: print messages to stderr so they don't show up in the configure output (should still show up in config.log).
17:41.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: checks added for termcap/curses (added termlib), checks added for urt, checks added for system libs and optional build libs (including libtcl)
17:45.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: convert the documentation to docbook, add dynamic geometry support
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18:01.05menotumelearner, brlcad ... pingo
18:10.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Modified the dgo_bot_check_leaf function to call rt_bot_plot_poly or rt_pg_plot_poly if possible (for the unevaluated shaded mode hack)
18:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
18:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: instead of scaling over time, a backwards-compatible solution that provides the
18:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: same results was to simply hypersample without jitter. an interesting benchmark
18:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: improvement would be to continue the renders until the rtfm variance is below
18:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: some threshold.
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18:31.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
18:31.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: rtarea bug should be squished now. it still uses the global, but should not be
18:31.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: doing the forking any more unless it's required -- and if it does fork, it will
18:31.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: force rtarea to single-threaded so values are properly computed.
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19:36.07brlcadnarnia: it doesn't?  hrm..
19:37.26narniabrlcad, what doesn't?
19:53.29brlcadindent
20:17.06narniabrlcad, indent does not grok macros.
20:17.16narniabrlcad, that is correct.
20:20.19brlcad<PROTECTED>
20:22.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: disable PARALLEL on windows again until the appropriate win32 calls can be added to parallel.c/semaphore.c in libbu, not enough to rely on cygwin's pthreading wrapping
20:22.08narniaGNU indent 2.2.9
20:23.27narniait combines macros and statement following the macro into a single line.
20:23.51narniaso: LISTdo( a, b, c )
20:24.05narnia<PROTECTED>
20:24.10narniabecomes
20:24.26narniaLISTdo(a, b, c) if (something)
20:24.37brlcadshouldn't that be LISTdo( a, b, c );
20:25.02brlcadit doesn't strictly matter but...
20:25.18brlcadstylewise, that is something I've not seen someone do yet
20:25.23narniaLISTdo is defined as:
20:25.26narnia#define LISTdo(list, elt, type)                                         \
20:25.26narnia<PROTECTED>
20:25.26narnia<PROTECTED>
20:25.26narnia<PROTECTED>
20:25.26narnia<PROTECTED>
20:25.27narnia<PROTECTED>
20:25.29narnia<PROTECTED>
20:25.40brlcadsure, it's a code block
20:25.41narniaLISTod is defined as:
20:25.55narnia#define LISTod  }}}
20:25.56brlcadeffectively inserts a { .. } in the code
20:26.05narniayes
20:26.14brlcadso { .. }; is harmless, but lets it blend like functions and matches style
20:26.48narnia????
20:27.14brlcadwe have macro blocks like that all throughout brl-cad
20:27.28brlcadthe core math routines do that for performance
20:28.00brlcadhaving LISTdo( ... ); in the code doesn't change the logic
20:28.10narniaso you are saying do ::
20:28.18narniaLISTdo (a, b, c )
20:28.20narnia{
20:28.21narnia}
20:28.24narniaLISTod
20:28.32brlcadno
20:28.40brlcadthe macros stay as they are
20:28.48brlcadwhen you use the macro, though
20:28.55brlcadyou append the ;
20:29.06brlcadeffectively treating it like a function call
20:29.15brlcadLISTdo( a, b, c );
20:29.17brlcadif (something)
20:29.49brlcadindent's getting just as confused as I would have been reading teh code
20:29.54brlcadlooks like a syntax error
20:30.04brlcadwithout the ;
20:30.49narniai would like to have::
20:30.58narniaLISTdo(a, b, c);
20:31.07narnia<PROTECTED>
20:31.12narniaLISTod;
20:31.45narniai would like whatever is between LISTdo and LISTod indented.
20:32.27narniathere is literal hundreds of LISTdo/LISTod  in libexpress.
20:32.55brlcadahh i misunderstood the do od pair
20:32.58brlcadshame on them
20:34.16narniawell i have to live with it or change it. right now i am living with it.
20:34.55narniathe code would become real ugly real quick if i replaced the LISTdo/LISTod combinations with the actual code.
20:35.32brlcadyeah understand.  the problem is the macro itself
20:36.33brlcadit's an "incomplete" macro
20:36.43narniabasically LISTdo open a code block, user added code, LISTod closes the code block.
20:37.21narniai call them degenerate macros.
20:37.37brlcadif you make LISTod take an empty parameter list, the semicolons would fix it
20:37.47brlcadso it's sort of like opengl's begin/end
20:38.24brlcador even better, remove the {
20:38.43brlcadso it becomes:
20:38.50brlcadLISTdo (a, b, c) {
20:39.00brlcad<PROTECTED>
20:39.04brlcad} LISTod;
20:39.42brlcadthen indentation will be correct too
20:39.59narniaso remove the inner most {} pair. (for loop {} pair)
20:42.15brlcadthe starting { in the LISTdo (before the struct Linked_list) and one of the } in LISTod
20:43.17brlcadack my bad, you're right
20:43.24brlcadhrm.. that's a problem
20:43.51brlcadthat elt line is nfg
20:44.23brlcadif you move it into the for itself, you can remove the last { in LISTdo
20:45.53brlcadi.e. (elt) = (type)((__p)->data ; for ( __p = __l->mark; (__p = __p->next) != __l->mark; (elt) = (type)((__p)->data) )
20:49.57narniai do not think that will work. the third part of a for loop is only hit after the for loop executes at least once.
20:50.29narniathe first time elt will be undefined.
20:52.34narniacould possible do ; for ( __p = __l->mark, (elt) = (type)((__p)->data); (__p = __p->next) != __l->mark; )
20:53.41narnianevermind that will not work either.
20:54.26narniait would have to be in both the 1st and 3rd parameters to the for loop.
20:54.47narniawhich looks really ugly.
20:55.42narnia<PROTECTED>
20:56.53narniawould definitely break backward compatibility.
20:57.59narniaany source code relying on those macros would have to be changed. that is an unknown amount of source code.
21:00.47narniait boils down to which is uglier and how desireable is backward compatibility.
21:29.03brlcadnot undefined, you missed the first part
21:29.23brlcadaside from my var error
21:29.31brlcadbefore the for loop you set (elt)
21:30.26brlcadwhich is where I typod:  (elt) = (type)((__l->mark)->data);  for (...
21:30.41brlcadthat is the same logic
21:30.47brlcadjust different placement
23:06.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: might as well force tcl and iwidgets on too since they have the same problem.. need to determine/set TCL_LIBRARY inside of mged if it's not set.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050427

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050427

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02:02.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
02:02.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: and sure enough, solaris sneaks back into the picture so it's time to refix the
02:02.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: sys_errlist problem. solaris wants strerror, win32 can use _sys_errlist. these
02:02.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: should eventually get refactored into some sort of libbu facility/macro some
02:02.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: day.
02:24.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): get rid of the old STD_SIGNAL_DECLS define since an ansi compliant compiler is necessary now. if a broken impl is found that needs to be accounted for, it can return as a proper configure check.
02:29.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h src/nirt/parse_fmt.c): get rid of HAVE_POPEN_DECL since ansi compliant compilers are expected to have it. when we find one that's not, we can add a better dynamic check.
02:39.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/mappedfile.c rt/main.c): replace HAVE_SBRK_DECL with the HAVE_SBRK configure check name
02:41.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: and away the unused _DECL vars go for HAVE_STRDUP_DECL and HAVE_GETOPT_DECL
02:50.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: reformat in a way that lets m-x indentation work.. yes, this really should be a bu_strerror or something, ugh.
03:09.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: simplify the strerror junk even more with a little reordering
03:24.45narniabrlcad, i agree either suggested solution would be logically the same. the question is breaking backward compatibility. may be a mute point since the nist scl has not been maintained for many years. anyone using it probably moved on to another library.
03:26.22narniaso perhaps it would be best to break it now and not later. i have to think about it.
04:23.29*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
04:23.29*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
05:29.34narniaTwingy, check this out:: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4486247.stm
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08:35.30fennyay!
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16:01.41Jeggadoes anyone know how to turn on the real time shading feature in mged?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050428

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050428

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06:35.16narniabrlcad, i am seriously tempted to rewrite the entire nist step class library in objective-c and ditch the c++ baggage.
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12:45.19brlcadhowdy darbot
12:49.14d_rossbergHi Sean
12:49.31d_rossbergI try to log this chat with a "bot"
12:50.11d_rossbergBut it doesn't work at the moment
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15:14.31aharveyHello, I am trying to find out if there is a way to import targets built with a program called IMEA into BRLCAD 7.2.2
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18:51.42brlcadhrmm
18:51.57brlcadI wonder what IMEA is
18:52.20Twingy_the immitation brand of IKEA?
18:53.09brlcadmaybe Integrated Munitions Effects Analysis
18:53.42brlcadARA analysis code of some sort
18:53.49Twingy_sounds fancy
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050429

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050429

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04:40.06narniaokay, well that sucks. there is a librt now in /usr/lib which is not the same as librt in /usr/local/brlcad. synaptic, will not upgrade the libc-6 because of it.
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04:41.31janohappy birthday dude :)
04:41.34jano:P
04:41.51narniajano, hello how goes it?
04:42.16narniajano, may i have the key to the cage of doom please?
04:48.11narniaokay, whose birthday?
04:50.04narniawell that just sucks. someone has a birthday, jano comes by for the first time in ages and drops the cage of doom into the pits of hell.
04:51.00narniagood thing i installed those safety chains. jano's attempt failed.
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07:40.04learnerhehe
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050430

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050430

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050501

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050501

05:28.35*** join/#brlcad learner (~brlcad@pcp0011649376pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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06:50.27narniaall day battling 10303 and still no significant headway. :-(
06:51.49narniatrimmed_curve with circle as the basis_curve are still not working. :-(
06:56.44narniabtw, would someone explain, in plain english, what a half space is and how it is used?
07:06.12narniai know i have said it before but i will say it again. iso 10303 is a memory hog.
07:06.58narniaand complex entities just plain suck.
07:50.39ewilhelm_half of a space
07:50.56ewilhelm_what's the context?
08:13.21narniathe context is a step file (iso 10303 part 21 ap203 )
08:13.25narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.25narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.25narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.25narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.25narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.53narniathere is also
08:13.57narniaENTITY  half_space_2d
08:13.57narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.57narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.57narnia<PROTECTED>
08:13.57narniaEND_ENTITY;
08:14.50narniai have absolutely no idea how to convert those two entities to anything brl-cad would understand.
08:17.15narniamy best guess is that somewhere in 10303 part 42 edition 2 there is an overly verbose description. i do not have iso-10303-042e2
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16:39.22ewilhelm_narnia, looks like maybe it only exists within the context of a csg operation?
16:46.17ewilhelm_how about "a partial shape cut by a plane" ?
16:46.21ewilhelm_http://openknow.com/vipnet/pdf/files-short/NPM3_8_Geomet.pdf
16:47.00ewilhelm_sounds like it might be a "keep this side" sort of thing
17:01.57narniaEricWilhelm, iso-10303 ap203 does not cover csg. ( has absolutely no clue about csg )
17:02.33narniaEricWilhelm, iso-10303 ap214 does cover some csg. ( has somewhat of a clue about csg )
17:05.52narniathe problem is when an 10303 entity has more than one parent. ( yes, i know that sounds strange. in this case having a single parent is a good thing. )
17:08.32narniathere are two cases: case 0: is where the parents have a common ancestor. case 1: is where the parents have no common ancestor.
17:09.22narniacase 0: common entity members must match. order of entity members is not that much of a problem.
17:09.56narniacase 1: no common entity members. what determines the order of entity members?
17:11.56narniabtw, in iso 10303 part 21 entities look like functions but they are not functions.
17:19.25narnia#9380=CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt95',(-2.1386, 1.9290, 0.5)); <----this is not a function.
17:20.03narniathe above assigns values to the members of the entity cartesian_point.
17:23.00narniaas a matter of fact iso 10303 part 21 does not allow any functions to be present.
17:24.36narniabtw, entity instances in iso 10303 part21 do begin with '#'. ( that is really brain dead in my opinion ).
17:34.30ewilhelm_narnia, does the "partial shape cut by a plane" do anything for you?
17:34.48ewilhelm_(the csg thing was a speculation I was making before I found that pdf)
17:38.54ewilhelm_narnia, it does look like it only has context in CSG though (pg 4 of that pdf)
17:39.57ewilhelm_so, I'm not sure what it takes to translate it into brlcad
17:41.24ewilhelm_if it's just a solid that has been cut by a plane, then you would only need the resulting solid (does that come from the geometric_representation_item ?)
17:42.12ewilhelm_I guess the base_surface would be the plane that is cutting it.  And maybe the agreement_flag is related to which side is kept?
17:42.52ewilhelm_narnia, not sure what that has to do with your two cases though.
18:04.26narniaEricWilhelm, there is no way of tell what the agreement_flag may or may do without; 0) reading the relevant parts of iso 10303 or 1) reverse engineering by trial an error.
18:06.14learnersolids that have been "cut by a plane" could be represented as either the subtraction of a half-space or the subtraction of one of the planar primitives (like an rpp/box)
18:06.48narnianot having iso 10303 resource parts (Integrated generic resources (Parts 40-49) and Application interpreted constructs (Parts 500 - 599))  i am flying blind so to speak.
18:07.30narnialearner, okay.
18:09.54learnersubtracting a primitive is preferred over subtracting a half-space, but a half-space is mathematically more equivalent (so probably just use that) i.e. it's an infinite plane where one half is "solid" the other half is not.  it's used for quickly adding ground or making cut-outs for visualization, etc.  some even use it in modeling to "cut by a plane", though we try to discourage it
18:15.09narniaso basically it is an infinite boundary.
18:18.38learneryep
18:19.02learnerwhich is also why the space partitioning algorithm has trouble opimizing it
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19:42.03polyspinAnyone know how/why the "FreeSolid" error got introduced?
19:42.29learnerthat sounds familiar
19:43.17learnerwhat's the context?
19:45.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: add a bunch of extra defines for the compatibility funcs provided by io.h; add HAVE_PWD_H and HAVE_IO_H to match the checks in configure; sort the lines
19:48.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for io.h
19:56.00polyspinWhen compiling dg_obj.c it complains that FreeSolid was declared static when previously declared in the header file otherwise.
19:57.18learnerI remember now
19:57.33learnerFreeSolid is/was defined in two places
19:57.41polyspinBTW, I think I got the patch for rt_poly_findroot in place.
19:58.00learneri noticed, he should be a happy camper now
19:58.11polyspinAnd "Tiger" is quite nice ;-)
19:58.19learner:)
19:58.49learnerI haven't sat in front of it yet, but I did get a compile going on it remote
19:58.55polyspinTough I agree with one reviewer:  The icons in Mail are too weird.
19:59.36polyspinTo/Tho/
20:00.47polyspinSpotlight is *awesome*
20:03.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/solid.h: FreeSolid is no longer exported by librt, it's static. (mged has it's own)
20:05.31learnerI have the variance/deviation adjustment working for the benchmark suite.. pretty cool, though it's really bothersome how much deviation I'm seeing
20:05.47polyspinThx.  I've started a rebuild.  
20:06.48polyspinGotta take the boy to the playground.  Back later
20:06.52learnercya
20:07.11learneri'll have broken the build in other ways hopefully by then
20:15.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: io.h not explicitly needed right now since it's being added by config_win.h
20:16.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: io.h not explicitly needed right now since it's being added by config_win.h
20:23.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/utility1.c:
20:23.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: windows does have unlink(), it is just called _unlink() through the
20:23.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: compatibility interface. the same goes for lseek (and pretty much all of the
20:23.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: standard C library functions) -- so instead of having dual sections everwhere, a
20:23.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: define is provided in include/config_win.h that makes them equivalent.
20:33.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/utility1.c: oops, if DEFINED.. not not defined.. might as well add sys/types.h too
20:37.58narniaokay, instead of T. F. U (true, false, unknown) for logicals they should have used T, F, M (true, false, maybe)
20:39.29learner:)
20:39.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: go ahead and install the brlcad_version.h header for easy version identification post installation even if nothing in brl-cad uses the header (yet?).
21:20.22learnerdon't forget your towel
21:20.41narnialearner, ????
21:21.09narnialearner, nevermind. i get it.
21:21.23narnialearner, long time since i read the books.
21:21.38learner:)
21:21.51narnialearner, my i borrow your toothpaste? nevermind, i do not have any teeth.
21:25.07learneryou can if you like, it's useful for more than teeth sometimes
21:32.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/common.h):
21:32.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: give our config.h a prefix of brlcad_ so that it may identify and differentiate
21:32.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: itself better when installed amongst other config.h headers. since only
21:32.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: common.h should be used and not config.h directtly, it should be sufficient to
21:32.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: just include it without checking PACKAGE
21:35.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (brlcad.h Makefile.am): add brlcad.h as a convenience header. it includes the header files provided by libbu, libbn, libwdb, and librt.
22:57.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: reword the convergence failure message
23:19.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: clean up the ansified function declaration
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050502

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050502

01:21.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add narrative details on the new benchmark computations and the configurable build enhancements
02:20.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: the vrml exporter (and probably others) doesn't output geometry for primitives themselves that are listed for conversion like one might expect like the raytracers do. it seems to only output the geometry for regions.
03:02.09*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu)
03:39.24narniaPrezKennedy, i really need to tell you that for a dead guy you sure get around.
03:55.43learnerdamn vrml spec.. "." isn't a valid name character is grrsome
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06:56.52PrezKennedyhah... wish i got around a lot more actually...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050503

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050503

00:21.37learnerPrezKennedy, just need to buy yourself a car and then that wouldn't be a problem
00:27.49PrezKennedynot exactly what i had in mind
00:27.50PrezKennedy:-p
00:28.43learner:)
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01:47.37polyspinAnybody home?
02:43.12ewilhelm_guess not
02:48.03polyspindoesn't look like it
02:53.50narnianobody here  except us prisoners
04:27.18Twingyo.O
04:28.22Twingythese pesky microcontrollers are addictive
04:29.41learnernobody at all
04:35.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: config.h was renamed to brlcad_config.h
05:02.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: config.h is renamed to brlcad_config.h
05:10.32learnerthere are a handful of others that slipped under the radar
05:10.35learnerfixing
05:19.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (15 files in 10 dirs): more config.h references converted to brlcad_config.h (or common.h where appropriate) that apparently slipped under the radar
05:19.51learnerthat should do it
05:20.13polyspinfetching (rarf!)
05:20.59learnerthe existing generated config.h hid those files .. that weren't supposed to be directly using config.h anyways
05:21.22learnerthey must have been hiding since the original regex
05:21.56learnerdoing a distcheck now to verify, that should catch anything missed better
05:23.54narniaokay, when should the end-user receive error/warning messages during the conversion of an iso 10303 part21 (.stp) file to brl-cad? when each warning/error occurs or as a summary? also what should be included in the error/warning message?
05:25.02learnerprobably include the reference names and geometry types
05:25.04narniai do not see much sense in telling an end-user that at line nnn entity instance #121231 has an error.
05:25.46learnerprobably not, but maybe that a brep failed might be
05:26.04polyspinThe user wants to know what part it was in
05:26.30learnerprobably should be as forgiving as possibe too.. they don't have much they can do about invalid files
05:27.05narniaso telling the end-user that entity instance #121231=cartesian_point('CarPnt1', 1.0, 2.3, 12.0); at line nnn has an error.
05:28.06learnerwhat kind of errors are you talking about?
05:28.26narniapart21 does not give much lead way in being forgiving. if an entity instance violates the governing schema there is no forgiving.
05:28.27learnerthere are fatal errors (in which case you should probably just abort), and more common non-fatal errors
05:29.03learnerwell, in your example -- what makes it an error?
05:30.19learnerthere are also syntax and semantic violations that you may or may not be able to recover from, of course
05:30.21narniathe error could be any number of things.
05:31.14learnerthat's part of my point too .. there are different classes of errors, treating them all as one or another will likely just lead to unexpected results
05:31.59narniathat entity instance may be used as an attribute to a trimmed_curve, polyline, etc. and local rules and/or global rules when constrain the values allowed for a cartesian_point.
05:33.19learnerbut in your example itself, that line wouldn't be the error -- it's usage somewhere as a referenced cartesian point might be an error
05:33.48narniayes
05:34.38narniathe cartesian_point is syntatically and semantically correct it is the use of the cartesian_point that is the error.
05:34.46learnerin that case, that'd be an error I'd expect the syntax/semantic parser library to catch on load, not necessarily the converter .. dunno
05:35.29learneri suppose you might be converting a portion of a step file that is correct, so you wouldn't know until parse time
05:37.29learnerstill, I imagine any converter is basically going to do just a handful of "phases" .. 1) read in the file 2) parse file contents into a parsed tree for in-memory representation 3) convert in-memory rep to brl-cad .g in-memory rep 4) write .g in-memory rep to disk
05:38.20learnererrors in 1 and 4 would likely be fatal since they'd be file/disk read errors
05:38.27narniaconverting a portion of a step file is a non-trivial task. most .stp files i am using to experiement and test with must be read entirely in and validated before you know there is an error. some depends on where the header section of the part21 .stp file specifies file_population.
05:40.04learner2 is the complex step since it involves parsing the entire .stp -- if it doesn't validate, it could be considered fatal but that will require good validation that the reason it didn't validate was the file's fault and not the parser (practically a "hard" task, regardless)
05:40.08narniacurrently it is an all or nothing on conversion.
05:40.54learner"errors" in step 3 are more likely "unsupported/incomplete" geometry types .. so I'd just warn
05:42.43learnersounds like you're mostly referring to the parsing of the step file (task 2 in my list), so sure, fail out -- might as well fail out early if there's nothing to be done about it
05:43.00learnerit's not like I'll care knowing that there were 38 errors or 1 if it's just going to halt conversion
05:43.50narniathe more i work on 10303 the more i become convinced that there needs to be a true express language compiler.
05:43.51learneragain, though, if they're not fatal, then I'd just keep a list of warnings and output them in the summary
05:51.08narniathe parser is being checked by wrting out a new copy of the parsed .stp file. the 'diff' of the two files is then taking.
05:52.08narniabasically, diff -u --ignore-all-space <orginal.stp> <copy.stp>
05:53.29learnerheh, that sounds like harsh validation
05:53.35learnerit's order dependant..
05:54.03learneri suppose if you can guarantee that you're in-memory format will preserve the parsed order, it should match
05:54.07narniacomplex entities are a nightmare. also entities which are a subtype of more than one supertype are also a nightmare.
05:55.00learnerhaving the in-memory order preserve the parse order sort of defeats the purspose of having an in-memory representation a little
05:58.26narniai have never done brep stuff. my project was all csg. brep is a new animal to me.
06:00.13learnernot much different, just pitch topological connectivity information out the window for primitive shapes and you have brep ;)
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06:02.25learnerguten tag, d_rossberg
06:02.58d_rossberggod morning, who ever you are
06:04.19d_rossbergisnt't it a little bit late for US, in Germany it't a nice time to start working
06:04.41learnera lil bit, more so in some parts
06:05.03narniait is 0101 hours here.
06:05.55d_rossbergsorry, some keys seem not no be at the right position on my keyboard :-}
06:06.14d_rossbergyes, I see, 6h difference
06:07.06d_rossbergor, wait, this are 7h!
06:07.38d_rossbergso you are likely not at the east coast
06:07.53learneri seem to live on pacific time in an atlantic zone
06:08.00narniano, i am 79 miles west of america's tallest target.
06:09.49narniain case you do not know that is the sears building in chicago, illinois.
06:11.06narniai hear the rent in the sears building is really cheap. it is also cheap in the buildings close to the sears building.
06:11.21d_rossbergno, i didn't know it
06:11.56narniasince 9/11 the sears building became the tallest building in u.s.a.
06:12.37d_rossbergthis explains something
06:13.31d_rossbergI was once in NY but nevet in Chicago
06:14.04narniaso most of us who live here are just waiting for the sears building to be 'hit'. it is not a matter of 'if' just a matter of 'when' it will be 'hit'.
06:15.10narnialearner, any good urls that explain brep for the novice?
06:15.49d_rossbergnobody knows the sears building so why should anybody want to hit it ;-)
06:16.03learnerhttp://www.cadcamcenter.com/cadcam/solid_modeling.htm
06:16.16narniabecause of what it represents.
06:17.23learnerit's worth noting that brl-cad technically supports all four of those, it's just csg that it emphasized and catered to
06:17.53learnerthe raytrace process almost completely through implicit equations
06:18.42learnerbrl-cad's stl format is technically one type of brep
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06:18.54learnerbleh, s/stl/BoT/
06:18.59d_rossbergsorry, wrong mouse buton
06:19.10learnerno harm done :)
06:19.32d_rossbergI'm working with the web interface at brlcad.org
06:19.59d_rossbergand "page back" closes the conection
06:20.04learneryour identifying information tells that when you join ;)
06:21.00d_rossbergOK, something about me: http://www.iabg.de/verteidigung/brlcad/index_en.php
06:25.06d_rossbergthe program the is unfortunately old
06:25.48d_rossbergi couldn't get a permission distribute version build on BRL-CAD 6.02
06:26.14learnerthat looks like it's less about you and more about a viewer that you wrote :)
06:27.22learnerfortunately you don't need permission for version 7+
06:27.31learnerany plans to update to 7?
06:27.50d_rossbergi thought, my connection to BRL-CAD is of special interest here
06:27.54learnerfile format is the same as 6
06:28.19d_rossbergyes, thats why i'm here (+ sth. other)
06:29.29learneryour connection is definitely of special interest.. :)
06:31.14learnerall will become more clear soon enough probably
06:31.57brlcadsoon enough indeed :)
06:33.50d_rossbergbtw, the viewer is build on the Qt libraries, therefore it isn't so MS specific as it look like
06:34.34learnernarnia: the biggest issue that came out of the old brep vs csg wars was that it's generally much harder to perform "feature operations" in csg (blends for example) whereas csg is generally much more efficient and exact
06:34.54brlcadooh, that I did not know.. nice
06:40.05learnernarnia, in implementation it generally boils down to implicitly defined primitives, voxel shapes, spline surfaces, and polygonal surfaces
06:41.43learnertraditional csg modeling generally refers to just implicit primitives, though the latter three can technically be primitives (as they are in brl-cad) and be successfully used in csg as well
06:42.28learnertraditional finite element analysis modeling generally uses polygonal surfaces (meshes) or voxel shapes
06:43.13learnertraditional brep is generally one of the later two (spline or polygonal)
06:43.48learnernot much is traditional any more, though .. most have shades of all four of them to some degree
07:06.12PrezKennedyping pong...
09:54.15narniapong ping
10:20.35narniaokay this is not normal. may 3rd and it is 28?F outside.
10:21.07narniaa new record low temperature.
10:58.59d_rossberg64°F (yesterday 86°F)
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17:48.57narniahow many dimensions does brl-cad grok? 2d and 3d i would consider the norm. does brl-cad grok dimensions higher than 3?
20:14.51ewilhelm_are you trying to model temperature or time?
20:29.52narniano, i noticed in iso 10303 that dimensions higher than 3 are allowed.
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21:08.20narniaTwingy, i see you are into cloning.
22:19.04brlcadnarnia: 3d in the format
22:19.47brlcad2d is really 3d, and 4d is supported through the animation tools to a limited degree (time)
22:20.01brlcadbut the geometry format itself is presently only 3d
22:26.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/tabinterp.c: ansify
22:30.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/tabsub.c:
22:30.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: fix a bug on filesystems computing the buffer size on 64bit filesystems. we
22:30.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: shouldn't directly attempt to allocate a buffer equal to the input file size,
22:30.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: but with the size_t it should actually work (casting from off_t) so long as the
22:30.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: size is less than max size_t. add some extra error checking while we're in here
22:30.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: and get rid of a global.
22:33.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed tabsub 64bit filesystem file read bug
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050504

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04:09.15brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/Blaupunkt.mpeg
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07:54.13narniawell like edison i know many things that do not work.
07:58.11narniathe nice thing about standards is there are so many of them. that of course if always the number 1 worst fault of standards also.
07:58.26narnias/if/is/
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08:23.03narniai am going to have to rewrite the parser. i has become so ugly it would never be maintainable in the future.
08:24.17narniait would help if i had access to more of the iso 10303 parts.
09:03.57d_rossbergi'm sorry, i couldn't find the iso 10303 in our company library database
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16:05.51narniabrlcad, did you ever contact pdes about an opensource membership? that is the one way to get access to the iso 10303 parts i really need.
16:17.42narniai really need access to 10303 part 4x and 5xx series.
17:28.27narniait is the ricochets you need to watch out for.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050505

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02:45.59llewnew
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18:48.51narniawould someone be able to give me an example where a degenerate toroidal surface is used? by degenerate toroidal surface major-radius < minor-radius.
19:30.47brlcadwhat do you mean by used?
19:31.05brlcadyou shouldn't use degenerate toroidal surfaces
19:31.11brlcadthey're effectively "inside-out"
19:32.45brlcadunless if you're referring to super toroidal geometry, where one side of the torus is "pinched" to a point
19:33.57brlcadbrl-cad won't let you make the inside-out kind, and I supertoroids aren't implemented  (superellipsoids are, but they're unfinished)
19:52.11narniaap203 has an entity degenerate_toroidal_surface ( as described above ) i am attempting to figure out how to map it to brl-cad.
19:52.38narniai take it from your comments above it should not be mapped.
19:57.28narniathere are two cases: if major_radius == 0 and minor_radius > 0 the torus has no hole.
19:59.14narniathe 2nd case is: if the major_radius > 0 and major_radius < minor_radius. in this case the torus is self-intersecting.
20:45.18brlcadnot exactly self-intersecting.. it's inside out per the definition
20:45.45brlcadif that's the input, I'd swap them on import so that it's corrected
20:47.46brlcada zero radius is also not supported -- it's mathematically undefined for the equation of a torus
20:48.35brlcadthere are several things that could be done with a zero-radius -- brl-cad's raytrace will abort on that degeneracy since, like I said, it's undefined
20:50.21brlcadbut, I suppose you could either nudge it to a near-zero value (like 0.00001) or import as two objects (a torus with a central cylinder to fill the hole, for example)
20:51.24brlcadahh, i see what you probably mean by the intersecting.. minor_radius can either be the radius of the "roll" or the radius from the center to the roll's edge, if it's the latter it's inside out, if it's the prior, it's intersecting
20:52.27brlcadI'd have to check what we do for the self-intersecting case, but I expect it would abort saying something like "boo"
23:15.53*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
23:17.38narniajohann crashed. i thought for a moment i lost a scsi disk but i doubled check everything and johann appears to be fine. johann, was up 161 days before the crash. perhaps he just wanted a break or some attention.
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23:44.56brlcadpoor johann
23:45.08brlcadjohann the barbarian
23:55.55narniaokay back to degenerate toroidal surfaces.
23:56.39narniado you understand what i mean when i say the torus insects itself?
23:56.53narniado you understand what i mean when i say the torus intersects itself?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050506

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00:05.48narniaactually his full name is johann strauss.
00:11.38brlcadyes, did you hear my follow up before getting disconnected?
00:13.13brlcadi was taking it to mean the distance from torus center to toroidal inner edge, not from the center of the ring itself which is what you were referring to
00:14.12brlcadnot that I know why I get confused.. brl-cad uses the same definition, I've just always thought of it the other way around since there's no chance for degenerates other than zero-length radius
00:38.44brlcadthe scheduled sf.net changes sound impressive..
01:21.48PrezKennedyso when can we be expecting a windows variant?
01:25.27Twingygrumble cakes
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02:39.17learnerPrezKennedy: not too far off actually
03:57.48learnerideas on a good BoF title?
03:58.08learnerright now, I'm at "BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling"
04:13.25Twingyopen source pizza
04:15.22learnerhmm.. the way open source works, that'd be one messed up pizza
04:15.53learnerpepperoni, cheese, onions, legos, cheerios, donuts, taco sauce
04:27.15Twingymmm legos
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04:43.57narniawell at least now i know what caused johann to crash.
04:44.15learneroh?
04:44.21narniathe latest debian version of ethereal is causing the crashes.
04:44.51narniai fired ethereal right before the earlier crash.
04:45.15narniai fired it up about an hour ago and johann locked right up.
04:45.30learnernice
04:45.40narniafscking nearly a terabyte of disk space takes awhile.
04:46.57learnerthe blessings of journaling filesystems
04:47.13learneri don't think I've waited on an fsck in ages..
04:55.18narniawhich filesystem do you use?
04:55.54learnerhfs+ on the mac systems
04:56.15learnerext3 and reiser on the linux/bsd boxes
04:56.51learnerall three are journalable
04:57.13narniajohann is running ext3 on most drives. i forced e2fsck -C 0 -f <fsys>
04:57.31learnerahh
04:58.10learnerext3 is probably the "worst" of the three, but it does usually work at preventing data loss
04:58.13narniatwo crashes in 24 hrs has made me a bit paranoid.
04:58.48learnerbetter put, I've not seen it lose any data -- I've seen it force an fsck itself when it detects something the journal can't handle
04:59.11learnerbut then the other two supposedly will do that too (just less likely)
05:00.43narniai spent yesterday, thursday, rewriting the parser.
05:00.49learneralmost a terabyte?  of what?
05:00.58narniadisk space.
05:01.15learnerI have over half, and that's a lot of room for a single users that doesn't generate much video
05:01.23narniaor are you asking what i have stored on the terabyte?
05:01.26learneri mean, what's the content
05:01.40learnerthat's a _lot_ of pr0n
05:02.52narniawell let me see. i ripped all my cd's to the disks. (500+) i ripped all of buffy the vampire slayer to disk. i ripped all of angel ( the buffy spinoff ) to disk. numerous software projects. several mysql databases.
05:03.08narniano pr0n here. never.
05:03.12learnerahh, so you do have video
05:03.38narniai got tired of changing the dvds.
05:04.03learneri'd fill up my disks fast if I ripped all my dvds.. it's on the "to do" list, but I don't want to set up the disks I'd need yet
05:04.23narniamy middle daughter's graphics art stuff. and numerous commericials she made.
05:05.05learneri can understand it easily with video
05:05.24learnereven graphics work, which I've done quite a bit of
05:05.47learnerI work on high-resolution old image restorations
05:06.05learnerwhere a single image might be over a gigabyte in size easy
05:13.05narniathe middle daughter, is restoring her grandparents photographs. some where glass plate.
05:15.44learnerI been involved with something similar with my family
05:18.26learneroldest pictures go back to about the mid 1800's, printed on metal -- tintypes
05:18.46learnersomewhere around my 4th great grandparents
05:19.32learnerI've been scanning, cataloging, interviewing, repairing pictures, researching
05:33.04narniai had an url for a guy who built a 6 disk drive firewire raid external enclosure for his mac. i cannot find it at the moment. i would like to build one lord willing i ever get some form of a settlement.
05:33.21narniait was 6 250gb drives.
05:46.06narniaptl found it. here is the url. http://vader.inow.com/~drbob/fwcase.html
05:52.07learnermm.. that'd be even more nice with 6 of the 400gb's you can get now
05:52.14learner~6 * 400
05:52.34ibot2400
05:52.44learnerwow, that took a while
05:53.27learner~275 * 6
05:53.38ibot1650
05:53.38narniai would be a bit worried about the heat. need some good fans to supply air flow.
05:54.07learnerfor a mere $1.7k you too can have 2.4 TB of disk space
05:56.45narniathat is a lot less expensive than purchasing something from say lacie.
06:10.24narniadid you happen to see my question the othe rday about pdes?
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06:37.19d_rossberg??? Narnia, which command did you used for your last message?
06:42.56learnernarnia, no i didn't
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14:39.40narniaif an entity instance is syntactical correct but is invalidated because one or more local 'where' rules are violated ( nothing worse than a violated where. ;-) ) should 0. this be a fatal blow to the conversion give the end-user some obscure error message ( you should have brought a towel with you. bye ) and bail out. or 1. ignore this entity instance and all references to it and continue on.
14:41.49narniaother possible error messages are: 'phase of the moon is wrong. bye' 'well i never! bye' 'coffee, need coffee.'
15:03.35narniamy favorite 'you want me to do what?'
17:31.57brlcadhehe
17:32.44brlcadas a library, probably the option to do either.. the actual converter should decide whether it's fatal if the library can tell it something really bad happened
18:27.45narniaokay, this is just out right obscene: Compilers by Alfred V. Aho, Ravi Sethi, Jeffrey D. Ullman List Price:  $105.20 and that is at amazon.com
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050507

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050507

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22:37.33PhantomBantamHi. How does the dsp primitive work?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050508

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01:29.44macTRONIs this thing on?
01:30.16macTRONUm . . . I have a question or two about brlcad
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01:59.16learnerPhantomBantam, what do you mean?
01:59.42learneryou provide a datafile that consists of height values
02:00.13learnerit's basically what most packages would call a "height field" used for modeling terrain, for example
02:00.51PhantomBantamSo, all that file is is plain text file with numbers?
02:01.22learnerno, it's a binary data file that it's expecting
02:02.01learnerdo you have an existing data set?
02:02.10learneror are you looking for something auto-generated?
02:02.19PhantomBantamNo.
02:02.38PhantomBantamYes, I am looking for something autogenerated.
02:02.39learnerit's not too difficult to take an existing binary data, like an image, and convert it
02:02.51learnerahh, okay -- probably even easier
02:04.14learnerlemme see if we have a prog that already does that
02:04.17PhantomBantamWhat kind of image?
02:04.24PhantomBantamOkay.
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02:50.24learnerPhantomBantam, sorry for the delay, got sidetracked fixing a bug
02:51.09learnerI don't see a random dataset generator.. the closest is a procedural database, but that generates a spline terrain field
02:51.22learner(src/proc-db/terrain)
02:57.35PhantomBantamOkay, I'll give it a shot.
02:57.46PhantomBantamthanks
02:57.48learnerthat said, let's say you have a png image of terrain data
02:58.28learnerlike, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/terrain.png
02:59.08learnerto make that into a 3D height field in mged, you have to convert the file into the format needed which is network unsigned short
02:59.44learnerpng-pix terrain.png | pix-bw terrain.bw
03:00.13learnerthat converts the png into a raw black and white image datafile
03:00.30learnerthen to convert it to dsp data, you can use brl-cad's cv command:
03:00.50learnercv uc nus terrain.bw terrain.data
03:01.07learnerthat terrain.data is now ready for import into mged as a dsp
03:02.17learnerat the mged command prompt type the "in" command, and it will prompt you
03:02.38learnermged> in
03:02.56learnerEnter name of solid: terrain
03:03.02learnerEnter solid type: dsp
03:03.18learnerTake data from file or database binary object [f|o]: f
03:03.29learnerEnter name of file/object: terrain.data
03:03.34learnerEnter width..: 512
03:03.38learnerEnter height...: 512
03:03.46learnerInterpolation: 1
03:04.13learnerCut direction [ad|lR|Lr]: ad     (doesn't matter much most of the time)
03:04.33learnerCell size: 1000      (1 meter per grid cell)
03:05.02learnerUnit elevation: 500      (smaller is flat terrain, larger is mountainous)
03:05.36learnere terrain    and you should see it show up in all it's glory
03:07.34PhantomBantamI'll try.
03:28.25*** join/#brlcad PhantomBantam (~phantomba@dialup-4.238.67.177.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net)
03:28.52PhantomBantamSorry, I was disconnected for some reason.
03:29.06learnerno problem
03:29.08learnerany luck?
03:31.09learnerlet me know if you need me to repost any of the walkthrough again
03:32.54PhantomBantamNo, it's still on the screen.
03:36.18PhantomBantam$ png-pix ~/desktop/terrain.png
03:36.19PhantomBantam-bash: png-pix: command not found
03:36.19PhantomBantamComputer:~ PB$ /usr/brlcad/bin/png-pix ~/desktop/terrain.png
03:36.19PhantomBantam?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????}}?
03:37.07PhantomBantamThat's what I get when I try to use the png-pix.
03:37.24learnerer, how do you normally run mged?
03:37.43learneryou type /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
03:38.09PhantomBantamI use x11
03:38.20learneryou should add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path, i.e. add this line to your ~/.bash_profile:  export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
03:38.32learnerassuming you use bash
03:39.07learnerthen you'll be able to type just pix-png, mged, etc
03:39.33learnerthat said, the command you needed was "png-pix terrain.png | pix-bw terrain.bw"
03:39.37PhantomBantamOh, Okay.
03:39.57learnerthe output was being piped to pix-bw instead of specifying a temp file
03:40.34learnerotherwise, that becomes two steps:  png-pix terrain.png > terrain.pix
03:40.41learnerpix-bw terrain.pix terrain.bw
03:54.01PhantomBantamI tried adding that line, and it still doesn't work
03:54.45learnerit doesn't take effect until you either make a new shell/xterm/whatever or resource the file manually
03:54.52learnersource ~/.bash_profile
04:01.39PhantomBantamI still get the question marks.
04:02.01learneryes, png-pix outputs data to stdout
04:02.10learnerso you have to redirect it to a file or a pipe, like I showed
04:02.20learner23:39:33:    learner: that said, the command you needed was "png-pix terrain.png | pix-bw terrain.bw"
04:02.37learner23:40:34:    learner: otherwise, that becomes two steps:  png-pix terrain.png > terrain.pix
04:02.37learner23:40:42:    learner: pix-bw terrain.pix terrain.bw
04:03.18learnermake sense?
04:04.20PhantomBantamBut then it says can't open "terrain.bw"
04:04.48learnerwhich did you do?
04:04.59learnerusing the pipe or the two step
04:05.23PhantomBantamThe pipe.
04:06.03learnerack, my bad.. typo
04:06.13learnertwice even
04:06.21learnerpix-bw sends to stdout as well
04:06.38learnerso it's:  png-pix terrain.png | pix-bw > terrain.bw
04:06.51learnersorry about that
04:08.53PhantomBantamYes! It worked.
04:09.48learneryou can pretty much feed any image into it like that
04:09.57learnerthough the default values assume a 512x512 image
04:11.32learneractually, never mind.. any image size should work.. pix-bw doesn't care about dimensions, neither does cv
04:21.52PhantomBantamI tried, but got:mapped file open failed
04:21.52PhantomBantammapped file open failed
04:21.52PhantomBantamcannot find data for DSP
04:22.15learnerwhat's your in line?
04:22.33learneryou did do the cv step right?
04:22.42PhantomBantamyes
04:23.35learnerhit the up arrow until you see the "in" line that you wrote
04:23.51learnershould look something like: in terrain dsp f ....
04:24.00learnerpaste that here
04:24.08PhantomBantamin terrain.s dsp f ~/desktop/terrain.data 512 512 1 ad 1000 500
04:24.33learnerhmm, might be the ~
04:24.42learnermake it relative
04:24.45learneror absolute
04:25.00learnerpwd
04:26.45PhantomBantamHm?
04:27.01learnerwhat does pwd say?
04:27.24PhantomBantamUsers/PB
04:27.45learner<PROTECTED>
04:27.54PhantomBantamIt works.
04:28.07PhantomBantamI just got rid of the ~/
04:28.20learneryeah, that makes it relative
04:28.23PhantomBantamWow, looks great.
04:29.33learneryou can test out different heights by running "kill terrain" to delete it, then up arrow to the "in" line and change that last number (e.g. try 1000 instead of 500)
04:29.53PhantomBantamOkay, thanks a ton.
04:29.58learnersmall numbers will make flattened, gently rolling terrain
04:30.04learnerlarge numbers will make mountains
04:30.30learnerchanging the second to last number will change how big/small it is
04:32.58learnerit's one of the fastest and most efficient terrain representations.. you can go pretty darn big and still raytrace relatively quickly
04:33.05learneronly limited by your machine's memory
04:40.29PhantomBantamGreat.
04:43.17PhantomBantamIneed to go now. Thanks a ton.
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10:09.26*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
10:09.26*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
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16:02.04learnercia is still not working..
16:02.15learnerslew of commits and no gratification :)
16:06.26narniano joy here either.
16:07.43learnerdid you actually start writing a compiler?
16:07.56learneror something else
16:08.03learneror was that just a joke
16:08.31learnerif it wasn't, gamasutra has one of the best walkthrough's I've seen
16:09.11learnerthat's probably several months of effort to get right, though
16:09.53narniai am rewriting the parser and working through a compiler design. several people have recommended the 'dragon book', but that book is not a possibility.
16:11.39narniathere is only so much patching possible with the old nist design. the more patches the uglier it becomes.
16:11.41learnerit is probably "the" book
16:12.29learnerbut certainly not necessary unless you have a really complicated language (which express is not comparatively)
16:12.30narniayes, the 'dragon book' is 'the' book on compiler design.
16:13.00narniawell, i sure would not say that.
16:13.26narniathe local 'where' clauses and global rules.
16:15.10learnerwhy are you going that route, though?  was there actually a showstopper?
16:15.49learnerI would have defaulted back to the other c++ based parser next before starting fresh
16:17.24learnerjust curious
16:18.25learnerwoo hoo!.. libwdb now has support for writing binary data objects!
16:19.20narniashowstoppers are: 0) not having 10303 part 4x or 5xx series. 1) from the old nist scl source code readme file "  The
16:19.20narniafollowing subclasses of STEPaggregate are stubs and have yet to be
16:19.20narniaimplemented: Array, Bag, Set, List.
16:19.20narnia"
16:20.41narniai have no idea what many entity attributes (variables) are even used for.
16:20.57learnernow sure what the latter means, but perhaps it simply wasn't necessary
16:21.29learnerisn't the 5xx series just for specific validate tests?  what's 4x?
16:21.31narniathen there are all rhe exceptions to the rules that are introduced in 10303-11ed2, 10303-21-2002, etc.
16:22.21narniaIntegrated generic resources (Parts 40-49)
16:22.32narniaApplication interpreted constructs (Parts 500 - 599)
16:23.02learnerokay
16:23.11learnerwhy are those needed??
16:24.18learnersorry for all the questions, you do know the scl a heck of a lot better than I at this point, but for basic geometry parser those don't seem that critical
16:25.15learneruseful, maybe .. critical.. dunno
16:25.17narniaexample: 10303-042e2 defines the entity trimmed_curve. i have nothing that tells me how that trimmed_curve behaves.
16:26.02narniaall geometry is defined in part 4x and 5xx.
16:26.26narniaap203 just includes them.
16:27.02narniai have absolutely nothing to go by that says how the geometry entities interact.
16:27.18learnersure, but why do you need to know how they behave?  a trimmed curve is going to have some values that pretty much convert 1-1 with a nurb .. it's the app's arena to make it behave
16:28.18learnerfor a converter, behavior is limited to "is this thing valid and representable"
16:28.48learnerif I were modeling with step as the core data format, that wouldn't be the case, but for a converter..
16:29.33learnerthere's already going to be a fair amount of simplification/omission or unsupported features even
16:34.04narniai am not understanding what you are are saying. when i asked about the conversion polyspin said that it should either be a bag of triangles or a nm something.
16:35.10learneryes, that was specific to the various tesselations you were asking about
16:35.43learnerbots are best for triangle formats, nmg for polygons
16:36.24learnersplines trimmed or otherwise can either be tesselated into a triangulated format or brought in as a nurb directly
16:37.41learnerthat's more knowledge of brl-cad's abilities, though.. not the step's representation's "ability"
16:39.02learnera sphere is a good example, given that it can be represented in about a half-dozen ways
16:39.26narniaout of the numerous .stp files i have been using i have yet to find a true polygon.
16:40.14learnerspline spheres and actual sphere primitives in step formate would come in as a brl-cad sphere, a tesselated one would come in as a bot if it's triangulated, nmg otherwise
16:42.00learnerthose mappings do get trickier, of course, but they pretty much just have to be looked at on a 1 by 1 basis to figure out the easiest mapping
16:45.12narniaexample of what i am dealing with.
16:45.17narnia#9120 = POLYLINE('PolyLine2',(#9113,#9118,#9117,#9116));
16:45.17narnia#9130 = POLYLINE('PolyLine2',(#9110,#9113,#9112,#9117));
16:45.17narnia#9140 = POLYLINE('PolyLine3',(#9118,#9115,#9110,#9111));
16:45.17narnia#9150 = POLYLINE('PolyLine4',(#9112,#9111,#9116,#9115));
16:46.26narniathe above polyline entities define 4 lines between the cartesian_points given as arguments.
16:46.45learnerso 9113 is a cartesian point for example?
16:46.58narniathe four polylines taken together form a cube.
16:47.13learnera cube or a square?
16:47.27narnia9113 is an entity instance name: #9113 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt4',(0.0,0.0,2.0));
16:47.36narniaa cube
16:48.12learnerhmm.. how do four lines make a 3d cube?
16:48.48narnia#9110 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt1',(0.0,0.0,0.0));
16:48.48narnia#9111 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt2',(2.0,0.0,0.0));
16:48.48narnia#9112 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt3',(2.0,0.0,2.0));
16:48.48narnia#9113 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt4',(0.0,0.0,2.0));
16:48.48narnia#9115 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt5',(0.0,2.0,0.0));
16:48.49narnia#9116 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt6',(2.0,2.0,0.0));
16:48.51narnia#9117 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt7',(2.0,2.0,2.0));
16:48.53narnia#9118 = CARTESIAN_POINT('CartPt8',(0.0,2.0,2.0));
16:48.55narnia#9120 = POLYLINE('PolyLine2',(#9113,#9118,#9117,#9116));
16:48.55learnerahh, I think I get it.. polyline is basically a face
16:48.57narnia#9130 = POLYLINE('PolyLine2',(#9110,#9113,#9112,#9117));
16:48.59narnia#9140 = POLYLINE('PolyLine3',(#9118,#9115,#9110,#9111));
16:49.01narnia#9150 = POLYLINE('PolyLine4',(#9112,#9111,#9116,#9115));
16:49.08learnermultiple lines, not just one
16:49.14learner4 to be exact
16:49.21narniawell, no. that is what i thought originally.
16:50.28narniahang on i have a povray model that shows what i am attempting to convey.
16:50.55learneri don't see how a single polyline can be anything else but line segments from point to point
16:51.11learnerthe only question I'd have is whether it was a closed loop or an open loop
16:51.19learnerfrom the points, it looks open
16:53.06learneryeah, that makes more sense .. they're just connected line segments, and presumably there's another entity that ties them together
16:56.28narniawell no, there is no further entity that ties them together.
16:57.04narniahttp://204.238.34.206/cube1-polyline1.jpg
16:57.08learnerthen it's not solid geometry
16:57.10narniahttp://204.238.34.206/cube1-polyline2.jpg
16:57.15learnerit's just an outline of a cube
16:57.16narniahttp://204.238.34.206/cube1-polyline2.jpg
16:57.23narniahttp://204.238.34.206/cube1-polyline3.jpg
16:57.31narniahttp://204.238.34.206/cube1-polyline4.jpg
16:57.36learnersomething you might find output from a sketch editor
16:57.54narniahttp://204.238.34.206/cube1.jpg
16:58.16learneryep
16:58.23learneri just made the same thing in mged
16:58.59narniai agree, but according to way 10303 sees it it is a cube.
16:59.03learnerthat is not a cube, though, at least from a modeling perspective
16:59.10learnerit is simply 4 line segments
16:59.21narniai totally agree.
16:59.34learneri recall seeing primitive datatypes, though
16:59.39narniabut to step that is a cube.
17:00.31learnerwhat makes you say it's a cube, nothing from the little bit of express you pasted would indicate that
17:01.26learnerthere's nothing that even indicates that they're any different from any random polyline I can think up
17:01.35narniai agree.
17:02.14learnerwell, that would imply that it isn't then.. nothing to the contrary contradicts it
17:02.56learnerdumping out 1000 points on a sphere's surface and 100 polylines that randomly connects them all doesn't make a sphere
17:03.17learnereven non-random connections like this cube
17:04.03learnerpresented with what you've shown, there's nothing to import/convert yet
17:04.10narniaokay, using the above 'cube' example. how should that be  mapped to brl-cad?
17:04.48learnerthere's no solid geometry yet
17:05.22learnerso there is no mapping yet for at least anything we'd care about
17:05.23narniayou are saying there is nothing to map?
17:05.54learnerexactly, like I said.. there is nothing that says those four poly lines have _anything_ to do with each other even
17:06.08learnerI can't just assume they do because they're in the in file
17:06.18learnerthere could be thousands of polylines like those
17:07.00narniawell, in one of the .stp files i have been using there are 1000's of polylines like that.
17:08.03learneri mean add one more #9151 = POLYLINE('PolylineFoo', (#9111, #9112, #9113, #9114)); and it's no longer a cube
17:08.20narniaagree
17:08.52learnerthere has to be another entity that ties the polylines together or there's no information about connectivity yet
17:10.53learnersome editors will let you make non-solid-geometry like a segmented line that has no solid geometry value
17:11.23learnerso I could see a case where something might export that to a file, but there's "nothing there" yet
17:11.48learneryou either warn and go on, abort, or ignore it
17:12.01learneri'd ignore that particular geometry until something connects them together
17:13.10learnerstash all the polylines in memory, but if they're not used to make something (either a 2d sketch or a 3d surface/object/shape) then dump them
17:13.47narniaeven if the .stp used something like :: GEOMETRIC_CURVE_SET('GeomCurSet1',(#9120,#9130,#9140,#9150));
17:13.49learneryou could technically stash them in the brl-cad db, but not in a way useful to anything but the converter
17:14.31learnernow that's totally different.. that ties the polylines together
17:14.59narniawhich would 'join' the 4 polylines into a labeled curve set. it still does not convey a solid.
17:15.19learnerthat there makes a geometric set, which happens to be a closed surface
17:16.15learnerI'd still hope there's another entity that references that entity or it's name so that I know it's supposed to be a cube
17:16.26narniai agree it is a closed surface
17:16.36learnerso that it can directly import as a arb8
17:17.32learnerotherwise you'll have to tesellate that surface and bring it in as an nmg (6 unoriented polygons)
17:18.51narniawhat does arb stand for again?
17:22.55narniathe point i have been attempting to make is that in many cases there is no way of knowing what the 'object' is until the entire .stp file has been parsed and the 'object' is 'assembled' in memory. only then, in many cases, do i know what the 'object' 'looks' like.
17:25.25learnerarb is an arbitrary regular polyhedron with as many as 8 vertices
17:25.57learnerbasically all of the polyhedron you can make out of the faces of a cube
17:26.34learnera cube, a wedge, a 4-faced pyramid, a 5-faced pyramid, etc
17:27.26learneri don't doubt that you won't be able to do anything until the entire tree is assembled in memory
17:27.32learnerthat was what I presumed libexpress actually did
17:27.48narniawell no.
17:27.53learnerthen I can iterate over the geometric types, and convert
17:28.01narnialibexpress parses the schema.
17:28.30learnerwhich gives me something that will eat ap203 for example
17:28.34narniai.e. 10303-203-aim-long.exp
17:28.42narniawell no.
17:29.17learnereh, i just said what you did and you say "well no."? :)
17:29.33learnerthat is ap203
17:29.53learnerthe express schema for it
17:29.54narniahang on brb.
17:35.18learnerI don't think we need to get caught up in the exact semantics, but feel free to enlighten me.  from what I gathered at glance, libexpress parses a schema you provide like ap203.  that then effectively gives you the means to parse ap203 step files and read the data as entities.  you get all the entities into memory (either manually or assisted) and then have to decide what/how to convert based on all of the entity types
17:37.42learnerthat doesn't "solve the entire problem", but once all the entity types are read into memory I have enough to convert -- i could iterate over all of the GEOMETRIC_* entity types, for example, and convert accordingly
17:40.02learnerof course, having to recursively dereference subentities all the way down the heirarchy to get the actual data like in the cube example.. I'd end up with a 6-sided polygon that is even detectable (at least that example is, forms a nice closed surface) and import directly as either an arb8 or an nmg
17:43.30narniahere is the current design:
17:44.34narniaparse a part21 .stp file. based on the part21 header using the appropriate ap parser parse the data sections of the part21 .stp file
17:45.20narniabuild a linked list of the entity instances found in the data section.
17:45.53narniabased on the part21 header information validate the data section.
17:48.02learnerokay, so far it matches what I've expected
17:50.09narniafor ap203 there are several 'presentation' types.
17:50.14narniaadvanced_boundary_representation
17:50.28narnia<PROTECTED>
17:50.39narnia<PROTECTED>
17:50.49narnia<PROTECTED>
17:51.00narnia<PROTECTED>
17:51.21learneryes, those are the specifics that polyspin responded to.. they map rather well to the types he mentioned
17:51.54narniadepending on the 'presentation' type create an in memory model of the 'object'.
17:53.34learnernow in the prior example, how does the GEOMETRIC_CURVE_SET relate to presentation types?
17:54.03learneris it tagged as one of those or implicitly belongs to one of those or unrelated?
17:58.09narniait would either be advanced_brep_shape_representation, edge_based_wireframe_shape_representation, faceted_brep_shape_representation,geometrically_bounded_surface_shape_representation, geometrically_bounded_wireframe_shape_representation, manifold_surface_shape_representation, shell_based_wireframe_shape_representation, or one of the topological_representation_item
17:59.22learnerso implicitly belongs to any of those.. is there a means that it would be tagged as one versus another?
18:01.50narniagenerally, the last entity instance in the .stp file indicates which. example: #9200 = GEOMETRICALLY_BOUNDED_WIREFRAME_SHAPE_REPRESENTATION('gbwsr',(#9160),#9190);
18:02.21narnia#9810=GEOMETRICALLY_BOUNDED_WIREFRAME_SHAPE_REPRESENTATION('gbwsr',(#9800),#9828);
18:02.32learnerahh, beautiful
18:02.44learnerthat's the actual solid geometry
18:02.56narniain the above example: 9800 is:
18:03.11narnia#9800 = GEOMETRIC_CURVE_SET('GeomCurSet1',(#9110,#9111,#9130,#9131,
18:03.11narnia#9562,#9566,#9571,#9576,#9581,#9153, #9586,#9158,#9159,#9591,#9173,
18:03.11narnia#9178,#9596,#9185, #9601,#9606,#9194,#9195,#9198,#9611,
18:03.11narnia#9616,#9211,#9215, #9621,#9227,#9626,#9631,#9238,
18:03.11narnia#9239,#9242,#9636,#9641, #9258,#9263,#9646,#9272,
18:03.12narnia#9651,#9656,#9283,#9284,#9287, #9661,#9666,#9303,
18:03.14narnia#9308,#9671,#9317,#9676, #9681,#9328,#9329,#9332,#9686,#9691,
18:03.16narnia#9348,#9353,#9696, #9362,#9701,#9706,#9373,#9374,
18:03.18narnia#9377,#9711,#9716,#9393, #9398,#9721,#9407,#9726,
18:03.20narnia#9413,#9414,#9450,#9451,#9460,#9461,#9470,#9471,#9480,#9481,#9490,#9491,
18:03.22narnia#9500,#9501,#9510,#9511,#9520,#9521,#9530,#9531,#9540,#9541,#9550,#9551));
18:03.24narniayou get the point.
18:03.49learneractually, i'd say 9800 is not the geometry.. it's just the shape/collection
18:03.50narniai have to 'drill' down to figure out what the object looks like.
18:04.10learnerin the absence of 9810, I was presuming the contents
18:04.18learnersame with the cube example
18:04.35narniayes
18:04.56learnerbut having it tell me that it's one representation versus another makes it a geometric shape as opposed to a collection of values
18:05.40learnerthose represenation entities are what the converter would iterate over then
18:05.57learnerrecursively looking up their contents for conversion values
18:06.24learnerbuild up an in-memory representation of the geometry
18:10.00narniahttp://204.238.34.206/star1-p21.txt is a good example. i have been using this one for testing.
18:18.27narniahang on i am trying to get a screenshot of the star1.p21 object.
18:21.58narniaopencascade shows http://204.238.34.206/star1-p21.jpg
18:23.53narniahow would you suggest that be mapped to brl-cad?
18:29.20learnerlooks like it'd convert in as a nurbs surface given all the trimmed curve entities
18:30.00learneralternatively, you could tesselate the curves and import in as a bot/nmg
18:30.24learnerthe latter wouldn't be ideal, but it would work easiest
18:31.10learnerif you could detect that it's basicly one 2d shape, it best converts in as a sketch and an extrusion fully preserving
18:31.55learnerit doesn't look like it is represented that way in the step file, though.. so probably nurbs
18:33.21learnerthe wireframe with curve models are going to be the hardest to decide on how to convert them -- probably just as easy to add a new wireframe primitive to brl-cad that fully captures it
18:35.19learnerwireframe modeling provides no benefit over what we already have, it's just a different  (less efficient) representation
18:35.35learnerit could be added pretty easily, though
18:36.04learnerit's basically an extension of the sketch primitive into 3D, just a heck of a lot harder to guarantee closure
18:36.27narniai find that most of the .stp files i have seen could have been modeled in a more efficient manner. the star1 is a good example.
18:37.05narniaap203 does have both a surface of revolution and surface of linear sweep.
18:37.44narniathe star1 should have been exported as a surface of linear sweep and be done with it.
18:39.09learnerthere is motivation to add both a wireframe primitive and/or a spline-based curvature boundary representation
18:39.19learnerbut that's somewhere down the line
18:39.55narniado you have a better understanding of where i am coming from.
18:40.12narniaand what i am dealing with?
18:42.44learnercsg would have you model that star as a cylinder with 20 objects (7 cylinders, 13 boxes) subtracted
18:44.48learnergetting back to the original question, though, I haven't seen anything that warrants requiring a compiler .. you can get at the entities, those are pretty much all that's needed
18:45.54learnereasy answer is to just tesselate that surface and bring it in as a bot -- that's pretty much what the iges converter does
18:46.12learnerit's not 100% faithful, but then conversions almost never are
18:46.28learnerfor faithful, I'd take the two weeks to add that new primitive
18:48.49narniathe compiler is still needed at some point in the future. there is far too much glue that has to be written by hand at the moment.
18:50.58learnerwhat is it doing for you though?
18:52.09learneryou feed it a step file, it crunches it through to some optimal in-memory representation?
18:53.40learnerthere is not going to be a faithful representation no matter how you cut it without adding the union of all step-recognized geometry representations to brl-cad
18:54.45learnerso you have to write the translation code.. that could go in a "compiler", i'd probably just call that a library -- or it can simply be the guts to the converter
18:55.29learnerthere's not much room for reuse without limiting the step to some subset in memory
19:05.30narniai will think on it later. i need to go to farm&fleet and get some parts and gasoline for the lawn mower. my daughter is awake now so she can drive me. over cast day but still warm enough to get somethings done. also need to look at the water softner's timer and see why it stopped working. never an end to upkeep.
19:06.06learneralrighty, have a good one
19:06.12narniaalways something demanding attention (repair).
19:27.44*** join/#brlcad CIA-3 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
21:25.04*** join/#brlcad CIA-3 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050509

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050509

00:54.21*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (~danfalck@pool-71-111-62-241.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:15.25*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (~Matthew@130.85.253.237)
03:07.58*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:07.59*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
05:05.48*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@resnet-253-237.resnet.umbc.edu)
05:18.26*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
05:18.27*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.0 is posted (20050305)
07:07.06*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (~c28bf505@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:20.41narnialearner, there is a good reason for writing a compiler. the current part21 parser is the one originally written by nist. it is written in c++. not lex/flex or yacc/bison but straight c++.
12:22.59narniaalso from looking at it again it does nothing to check the local or global 'where' clauses.
12:43.21narniai will figure something just nevermind.
13:40.48*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:41.31polyspintwingy:  Does the observer work on the mac?  Could we demo tomorrow using a mac laptop?
14:33.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: M-x indent-region and other ws
16:14.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_log.c: indent-region, error if we can't log at compile-time
16:22.27CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_log.c: bah, preprocessor goo begone
17:01.21*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:25.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c:
17:25.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: do not let any key press or mouse release make the lingering framebuffer
17:25.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: disappear (!). also do not close stderr since that is what the child uses when
17:25.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: fb_logging. stub in the same behavior as the X24 interface where it reports the
17:25.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: rgb value at a particular coordinate.
17:58.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_4d-old.c if_ogl.c if_ogl_win32.c): BRL frambuffers are just framebuffers now
18:19.20CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-X.c pl-X10.c): return a value and sleep less before existing
18:22.19CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: throttle the linger idle event loop so that we don't end up calling XCheckWindowEvent as fast as possible.
18:23.17CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: throttle cpu usage on lingering OpenGL frambuffers
18:32.17learnerwe're so late.. sheesh
18:39.41*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
18:39.47*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:48.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: print out the right results for the java test
18:52.45learnerwe're no less stable than previous releases, in fact we're more stable among other improvements
18:53.13learnerthat's the whole point of the timely periodic iterations
18:54.48learnerthere's nothing that prevents more releases as more gets fixed too
18:59.32learnerspeaking of bugs, I've tracked down the longstanding opengl framebuffer bug.. pure blind luck that I found the cause
19:00.34learnerit's the bug that causes ogll to bus error out on the mac
19:01.15learnerit basically ends up trying to blit to an ogl context that for "some reason" yet determined isn't ready to blit
19:01.36learnerif you turn on the multiple window flag (which was my blind luck), it works just fine
19:02.16learnermultiple window forces a direct ogl context whereas non uses indirect
19:02.40polyspinhrm
19:02.59learnerer, other way around.. multiple is indirect, non is direct
19:03.05learnerdirect is not ready for some reason
19:03.41learnerdebugging that led to a handful of other debugging/fixes too
19:03.52learnerlike why it eats up 100% cpu/io on linger
19:04.01learnerwhy it won't output debug after raytrace starts
19:04.20learnerwhy mouse/key events killed the window
19:05.18learneronly one I didn't try to fix was the old "performance bottoms out" bug .. encountered it on wopr with postage stamp renders
19:06.17learner``Erik, what's the configure line you use for jdk?
19:08.43``Erik../../configure --prefix=/usr/brlcad --with-jdk=/usr/local/jdk1.5.0
19:08.49``Erik(freakin' query mode)
19:08.53learner:)
19:08.54learnerk
19:09.07learneryou know that prefix is the default, right?
19:09.16``Erikyeah, but I'm a pedantic sob
19:16.49learnerbingo
19:17.07learnerglXCreateContext was being told to make a direct context
19:17.38learnerif it can't/won't do direct, it doesn't fail, it just doesn't give you a direct context so you have to check whether the context given was direct
19:17.45learnerthat's why it crashed
19:18.07learnerthe context was never acquired/released since it was assumed to be direct
19:29.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c:
19:29.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: glXCreateContext might not be able to make a direct context, so don't presume
19:29.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: that it will. if it's not, we need to turn on the multiple_windows flag so that
19:29.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: the context is properly acquired/released. this fixes a bus error crash on the
19:29.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: macs, as well as other oddities on some other platforms. this is possibly
19:29.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: related to sf bug 925427 where the entire X display would go black until the
19:29.35CIA-3BRL-CAD: raytrace completes.
19:30.52polyspinDoes anyone know if there is an automake variable for the "current directory under top_srcdir"?
19:30.53learnersrcdir?
19:31.14learnerbuilddir is where you're building
19:31.15polyspinI'm trying to set up VPATH based builds for the regression tests
19:31.35polyspinI want to access $top_srcdir/current_directory/filename in the makefiles
19:31.55polyspinFor example:  sh $(top_srcdir)/regress/solids.sh
19:32.10polyspinShould the directory "regress" ever change, I want it to track
19:32.33polyspinThis is invoked via "make test" in the root directory of the build
19:33.41learnersrcdir is supposed to be that, I believe, though bugs in older versions sometimes makes that unusable
19:34.40learnereasy enough to pinpoint the regress dir if it moves, that's should work regardless of versions
19:34.50learner(using top_srcdir
19:36.41learnerpolyspin:  you did see that I added a top-level test target that calls the regression tests a while back?
19:37.13polyspinyes, I saw that.  "make test"
19:37.58learneronly made it cd regress and make regress there, thought about making it work like the benchmark but didn't get to it
19:38.56learnerbenchmark is a good example.  finds itself on exec for locating resources and outputs from the callers location so a build tree run should work better
19:41.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent indirect OpenGL framebuffers from crashing
20:04.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (main.sh nightly.sh Makefile.am lights.sh spdi.sh):
20:04.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: Updates for running regression test from remote directory when build tree
20:04.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: and source tree are different.
20:04.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: Added nightly.sh and main.sh which are the foundation for the nightly runs.
20:04.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: More to come in these two.
20:24.07polyspinshould I expect a lag between when I check a file in and when I see it in SF?
20:24.26polyspinI've committed "regress/main.sh" and didn't get it back on a subsequent checkout
20:27.47polyspinHmmm.  If I get it as me, the files are there.  If I get it as anonymous, they are not.
20:28.38learneranonymous lags
20:28.44learnerby "up to" several hours
20:29.20learnerafter all of the sf.net upgrades they should be in exact sync, but they have never been yet
20:29.57learner4 hours is the current time window, iirc
20:31.03learner~nslookup ftp.brlcad.org
20:31.13learner~nslookup 66.111.56.56
20:31.32learnerthere we go.. rdns is set
20:33.47*** join/#brlcad archivist (~archivist@host217-35-103-47.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
20:39.41archivistwill/does brlcad have a "solidworks" or similar front end?
20:40.38polyspinarchivist: We can read/write STL.  Don't know if that's the sort of thing you meant
20:41.32archivistNo i mean a graphical editor ala solidworks solidedge etc
20:42.08polyspinMGED is our graphical geometry editor.
20:42.20polyspin(cough) "mged"
20:44.29archivisthmm, will it build on my alpha, and ram requirement, and does it have 2d output from the 3d modles
20:44.39learnerarchivist, volume II "Introduction to MGED" on http://brlcad.org is a pretty comprehensive walkthrough/tutorial on how to use mged
20:45.14learnerit should build on your alpha, ram requirements are tiny
20:45.15archivistok will have a look
20:45.28polyspinIt's pretty much a 3D package.  There is very limited support for "drafting" applications.
20:45.39learnerif it doesn't build, that can be fixed asap.. it's been a while since we've had an alpha to play with
20:45.47polyspinIt built on the VAX, so the alpha should be little problem ;-)
20:46.45learnerarchivist, do you mean 2d renderings or something more like drawings from a drafting program?  does the prior including line renderings, but not the latter ala blueprinting
20:47.22polyspinarchivist:  What do you want to use it for?
20:47.58archivistI'm used to doing everything 3d nowadays but manufacturers still expect 2d line drawings
20:48.12archivistmechanical design
20:48.43polyspinWe don't have support for dimensioning at the moment.  It's been on the wish list for a while.
20:49.08learnerhave you tried out qcad and pythoncad?  they are both 2d editors under development by other groups
20:49.23learnerthey're nowhere near mature in the 3d arena, but depending on your need, might help
20:49.48archivistno ive got a 3d head i cant go back to 2d
20:50.16learnerif you're a dev, you're more than welcome to help add dimensioning :)
20:50.54archivistwell i am a programmer also but more used to assembler
20:51.09archivistand cough php
20:51.59polyspinFor a moment I thoought you meant "pdp" assembler and I was gonna smile
20:52.54archivisti almost go back that far
20:53.13learnerarchivist, the closest we have to line drawings are undemensioned outline/edge raytracings .. example:
20:53.14learnerhttp://db.brlcad.org/tmp/moss.png
20:53.18learnerhttp://db.brlcad.org/tmp/moss_edge.png
20:54.02learnerand, of course, basic wireframe in the editor, which you can save as plot/postscript and/or convert to images
21:02.49archivisthmm mged perhaps needs a fork so mousers can use it
21:04.30archivistand how about near real time rotates moves
21:05.00learnerit does via the shift-grips
21:05.22learnerdifferent mouse controls than you are used to, undoubtedly
21:05.38learnerbut should do all the same
21:06.32learnercontrol-click and move the mouse (with button depressed)
21:07.34learnercontrol+mouse to rotate, shift+mouse to translate, shift+control+mouse to zoom in "real time"
21:08.19learnerthose are customizable, but well established for brl-cad users
21:08.23polyspinThere's a cheat sheet at http://brlcad.net/ShiftGrips.pdf
21:11.42archivistI downloaded the sorce a few months ago the introduction_to_mged.pdf is missing from that(7.0.4)
21:12.04learner"missing"?
21:12.21learnerthe pdfs aren't included in the source distributions
21:13.09archivister why?
21:13.23learnerdid you see how big those pdfs are?
21:13.54learnerit would almost double the download to include all the docs
21:14.02archivistno but 100meg for the source didnt frighten me
21:14.04learnersome documentation comes in the source dist
21:14.41learnereventually the docs will get remerged into the sources, but not as pdfs
21:14.41archivistthats why i was using the download as it was easier to find
21:14.51learnersomething maintainable like opendoc or docbook is more likely
21:14.59archivistok (I hate pdfs anyway)
21:15.22learnerfeel free to help with that too :)
21:16.19archivisthmm i need to do a trial build on my box forst
21:16.35learnersuggest using latest cvs if/when you do
21:16.52archivistok
21:16.53learner7.0.4 is "old"
21:25.16archivistpage at http://db.brlcad.org/ states there is a link to follow but its a mail addr (it could do with links to available info)
21:26.35polyspinTry http://brlcad.org/
21:27.00polyspindon't know what db.brlcad.org is there for.
21:29.54learnerdb's a different machine that used to host brlcad.org
21:30.36learnerdb was just for that tmp link
21:31.25archivistlots of ppl back up to the top to see what else they can find so may be worth a mod to that page
21:32.04learnerwhat would you have it say?
21:32.48learneralso, nobody would get to db unless I give them a link in here :)
21:33.14archivistlink back to main site or index the extras on the box
21:39.43learnerthere, changed.  better?
21:41.58archivistyup, next a wiki?
21:42.26archivisti run mediawiki on my box
21:42.58learnerthere's a new website under works that's vastly improved over http://brlcad.org
21:43.08learnerincludes a wiki
21:43.19learnerdb doesn't need one
21:45.46archivistthey can be usefull for a community for faq and unofficial info
21:45.57learnernew site includes a wiki, forum, news, docs, polls, search, etc
21:47.41learneryes, I have wikis in place for other projects .. only reason it's not up for brl-cad yet is because it's part of a much larger effort to improve the website
21:48.51archivistcan be hard to get ppl to work on a wiki sometimes
21:49.42learnerone of the systems I've looked into is getting the wiki integrated with docbook
21:50.09learnerso whether the edito on-line in wiki format or directly out of cvs using their favorite editor, it's all the same
21:50.20learnerand it's revisioned in cvs, so we have a history
21:51.07archivistmediawiki has history
21:51.20learnersome wiki's can be quite less than efficient, the resistance is often with due reason
21:52.06learneryes, most wiki's have history, but then it's one more user auth system and it's still only through the web browser
21:52.37learnerdevs tend to live in editors like emacs/vi working out of cvs, editors like guis, users like websites
21:53.07learnerfor single-source migration, cvs/svn is the best location since the source has to be there already
21:53.18learnernow it's just a matter of integrating a wiki with that backend
21:54.30learnerwith something like docbook on the backend, I can autogenerate the web/wiki pages, rtf, doc, pdf,  etc
21:54.56archivistand a db for an irc bot?
21:55.25learnerwith an irc bot that groks docbook on a backend, sure
21:55.36learnerthough bots tend to mainly be useful for factoid snippets
21:55.49learner~brl-cad
21:55.51ibothmm... brl-cad is a powerful constructive solid geometry solid modeling system that includes an interactive geometry editor, ray tracing support for rendering and geometric analysis, network distributed framebuffer support, image and signal-processing tools.
21:57.32learnerthat would make a nice little bot project, though -- a developer bot that integrates with sf.net and gforge facilities, writes docbook on the backend, speaks rss
21:58.03learnerCIA would be great for that, but scanline is short-visioned (or tapped for time)
21:58.07archivistwe use one in #mysql to through users at either the main docs or the wiki for an indepth description
21:58.51archivistthrough=thow
21:58.56archivistthrough=throw
22:00.10learnerwhat kind is it?
22:01.13archivistdont know actually
22:01.13learnerthere's a bloot and supy in here now
22:01.27learnerguu: lart ibot
22:07.53archivistthe #mysql bot is pynfo
22:10.05archivistwhich branch to download?
22:13.13learnerHEAD
22:15.23archivistand now ive got to remember that horrid string to get tortoiseCVS to work for me
22:16.28learnercvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
22:16.34learnercvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
22:17.02archivisttk
22:17.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/main.sh: Changes to automatically track the release number recorded in configure.ac
22:43.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (nightly.sh main.sh): now we track the release number and do the regression test
23:17.28*** join/#brlcad Deffie (~Defcon7@deffie.admin.nectarine)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050510

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050510

04:20.58*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
04:39.26learnerhow exhausting.. 5 hours on a single bug
05:10.24*** join/#brlcad Chesh_bbl (~Sammer@71-32-2-186.spkn.qwest.net)
05:26.17learnerhello Cheshirc
05:29.27Cheshircheya
05:29.39Cheshircthis is fun
05:29.52learnerthis is? :)
05:29.57Cheshircyes ..
05:30.17Cheshirci tryed talking to ChanServ erlier ..
05:30.25Cheshircon reponce
05:30.32learnerfirst time on irc?
05:30.35Cheshircon = nno
05:30.48Cheshirclong time ago
05:31.08Cheshirc98' or something .. i can't
05:31.18Cheshircremember
05:31.53Cheshircbut i'm so glad to see my typing getting slower and more error prone
05:32.01learner:)
05:33.00learneri was similar several years back
05:33.11learnerhadn't used it since early 90's, then got started up again
05:33.25learnerhaven't disconnected for several years now
05:33.26Cheshircbe nice to get a spell check wrapper for X-chat.. i'd use it all the time
05:33.44Cheshircwoww  
05:34.35Cheshircused to hang out on the nt undernet chan .. now loks like nuxX for me
05:34.44Cheshirc+apps
05:34.44learnerfreenode made most of the difference
05:34.54learnerthis network is much more organized/friendly than the others imo
05:35.24Cheshircprobly get less kiddie / goofballs
05:36.00learnerplus just about every major open source project has a presence on freenode, so I can coordinate/collaborate/ask questions/etc more easily
05:36.23Cheshirci havn't looked at the chan list yet . i hope this is more developer ircNet like
05:36.30learnera lot less kids, or at least less tolerance for the assclowns
05:37.09learneri'd say this is probably _the_ developer network at this point
05:38.24Cheshirci used to hang with some gals that would change nicks and raz folks on some of the more questioable chans
05:38.24learnerheh, it probably won't give you the chanlist without some coercing, it's pretty big
05:38.36Cheshircahh .. waisted youth
05:39.33Cheshirchey, i think i wa old than too
05:39.36Cheshircoh well
05:39.49Cheshircthan=then
05:40.13learner:)
05:41.24Cheshircknow of manny using mpi to get data into the app here ?
05:41.43learnerby the way, you can ask chanserv "help" and it should give you a menu
05:41.51Cheshirck
05:41.52learnernickserv is probably where you'd want to start, though
05:41.57learnerfor registering a nick
05:42.14Cheshircyea , i should do that
05:42.24learnerusing mpi to get data into the app?  which app?
05:42.43Cheshircbricad
05:43.05learnernot sure what you mean by that, though
05:43.24learnerbrl-cad consists of over 400 "apps", too  ;)
05:44.34Cheshircu get a cluster up .. like 2-10 puters  ... cruch stuff .. data feed into visuzatin application for viewing
05:44.40learneri'll assume you mean into either the modeler or the raytrace library itself, though
05:44.55learnerahh, brl-cad already will do that, but not via mpi
05:45.12learnerit does it's own message passing for remote computation
05:45.19learnermpi would make a nice patch, though
05:45.26Cheshirci'm  now farmiliar enough with it yet ..
05:46.05Cheshirclooking for some fun stuff 2do .. that might turn into work of some sort
05:46.45learnerI'm toyed with the idea of adding mpi/pvm communication into the raytracer
05:46.51learnerthat would be a fun project
05:47.57Cheshircstill investgating .. looks like big guns use puchashed ( not enough money to buy here) software
05:48.29Cheshirclooking to see if'n there's a gpl way to go
05:48.56learnerbrl-cad is the only open source solid modeler
05:49.36Cheshircok pov must be buy for bizz type
05:49.50Cheshircit's a modler, right ?
05:50.04learnerthere are other raytracers (povray) and other 2D modelers (qcad and pythoncad come to mind) and mesh modelers (blender), but brl-cad is the only solid modeler
05:50.19Cheshircok
05:50.35learnerpov is not a modeler, it's pretty much just a raytracer with a geometry format
05:50.54Cheshirci need to read more on this
05:50.56learners/raytracer/renderer/ .. does more than raytracing
05:51.32learnerwe kick pov's butt on the ray-tracing side, but then win on the global illumination and realism side
05:51.40learners/then/they/
05:52.10learnerbrl-cad's raytracer dates back over 20 years, one of the very first written
05:52.43Cheshirclike how to get math libraries to talk to wut .. i thought maple/wolfram was the most popular
05:53.14Cheshirci've see the gpl version on the net looks 2b making some headway
05:53.40learnermaple/mathematica are rather specific to mathematics computations -- there's an open source equivalent of maple, though I forget the name right now
05:53.44Cheshircoctave ?
05:53.57Cheshircsomething like that , i think
05:55.14learnerthat's one of them, though I think I was thinking of maxima
05:55.41learnerthose are drastically different apps than a modeler or a raytrace/visualization engine
05:57.35Cheshircyea, some projects need to ge t the data cruched and fed to some format somehow ..
05:58.35Cheshirci thought math libraries were getting soe of the number crunching done, then .. idonna know
05:58.54Cheshircsoe = some
05:59.06learneroh, they are -- that is a common component of most of those
05:59.43learnerbrl-cad has rather tuned pre-processor based (inline) vector and matrix math library
06:00.34learnermost of the parallelization ala mpi is done at a higher level, though .. spread out larger tasks across your network
06:00.42Cheshircsounds like everything is project spacific .. i thought there was a general method / app libary set some were using
06:01.20learnerlike for rendering an image, you would have each mpi node work on a scanline of an image being rendered.. not individual computations, they complete too fast to warrant that tiny a task
06:01.45learnerthere are some math libraries out there that are widely used
06:01.46Cheshircok
06:01.57learnerlike gnump
06:02.09learnerthere's probably a dozen "big" name math library projects
06:02.19Cheshircnever heard of that one .. cool
06:02.46Cheshirci'll get more farmiliar with wut's out there
06:03.39learnerblitz++ is another
06:03.53Cheshircthanks
06:04.13learnerhttp://www.scd.ucar.edu/softlib/mathlib.html
06:04.38Cheshirci'm there
06:04.43learnerthat has a list of the traditional old name math libraries (most are either fortran or converted from it)
06:05.16Cheshircwow .. i like to copy and paste whenever i can .. less typing/ error prone
06:05.57Cheshircfun stuff
06:06.47learnerdepending on whether you are more interested in procedureal vs object oriented vs functional etc will steer you various directions
06:07.25learneralso factors like focusing on vector or matrix math, perhaps equation solving, numerical solutions, differential equations, interval arithmetic
06:07.28Cheshirci can't imagine wut the old gaurd use to go through .. typing full paths all the time
06:07.55learnerthen there are different implementations: infinite precision, vectorized, parallelized, distributed, etc
06:08.53learnerhehe, having typed for so long, I don't think about it much any more :)
06:09.04Cheshirci need to save this to a file
06:09.08Cheshirchehehe
06:10.00learnerbasically just pointing out that you're going to have to really narrow down what it is you're interested in doing :)
06:11.09learnerplus you get to see pretty pictures in the process
06:11.28Cheshircbrother does some cloud/weather trend analasis ( makes the sensors) feed > 100 plus cluster
06:11.59Cheshirci need to find out wut they use to visualize / how
06:12.30learnerthat depends on way too many things to really answer and it'd be a customized app in the first place
06:13.13learnermany of the high performance codes are already using mpi for things like weather simulations/visualizations
06:13.35Cheshirci was thinkin out load
06:13.47Cheshircloud
06:13.52learnerit'd be easier to answer whether "project X" uses or could benefit from it
06:14.05Cheshirctrue true
06:14.14learnerinstead of "genre/topic X"
06:14.54Cheshirci need to do much more diging looks like
06:19.07Cheshircthere are not enough hold your hand/newb this is wut u can do with this and here's some sample hacks to do ( yes, at home) web sites out there
06:19.47Cheshirci think some kids would get into it if the top layer was more acesisble
06:20.50learnerwhat is it that you're looking to do?
06:20.59learnerprimarily, that is
06:21.05Cheshircactually
06:21.08learnerlearn something?  make something?
06:21.18learnerwrite a program?
06:21.22Cheshirci did have an idea for some stuff
06:21.39learnerdo tell :)
06:22.05Cheshirci've got about ten or so good ideas for some things
06:22.27Cheshircanoman web site
06:22.42learneranoman?
06:23.01learner~google anoman
06:23.40Cheshircexamples of the many anotated man pages for the less didgialy savy
06:24.08learnerahhh
06:24.13learnernever heard of that
06:24.55Cheshircit dosn't say yum -y ... anywhere that i've found
06:25.12Cheshircjust says there is a switch
06:25.27Cheshircsame em lotta time and effort
06:26.05Cheshircthey don't have to relean how to recreate the wheel evey time
06:26.21Cheshircsame=save
06:27.26learnercurious then, what brought/led you to brl-cad
06:27.30Cheshircfolks would be able to further/faster .. get more suff done / less frutrating
06:29.26Cheshirclooking to see if i can hack up some math calces that are needed to visualize ( something) > cluster > lokat-it
06:29.40CheshirclookAt-it
06:30.24learnerwell there's definite potential AND need for that if you can narrow that down a bit :)
06:30.46learnerlike adding new primitive types
06:30.49Cheshircso it would seem
06:31.04learneri spent several weeks over a year ago adding a super ellipsoid to brl-cad
06:31.18learneralmost got it all working... but not quite
06:31.25learnerpretty nifty, though
06:31.31Cheshircbut now i am  a little more aware of that .. lol
06:31.52Cheshircvery cool
06:31.56learnerhttp://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/surfaces/superellipse/
06:32.27learnerbasically a single object that can become any of the shapes shown near the bottom of that page
06:33.29Cheshircby changing the input ffigures, huh ?
06:33.38learneranother fun one is a steiner surface and a super toroidal surface
06:33.53Cheshircthat looks .. not easy
06:34.52learnerit wasn't too easy
06:35.14learnerhad to read a few research papers, and consult with a math expert friend of mine more than a few times
06:35.38learnerall the while trying to learn the code too
06:35.46learnerpretty much got it, though
06:36.07learnerjust some trickery left in brl-cad's numerical solver
06:36.16Cheshircer, code in wut ?
06:36.23Cheshircpy/c+
06:36.25Cheshirc?
06:36.36learnerthat'd be another interesting project.. replace the numerical solver with something better
06:36.48learnerbrl-cad's almost all C
06:36.58Cheshircwow... hard core
06:37.07learnerthe geometry editor is a mix of C and Tcl
06:38.24Cheshircany rad kits out there to asist in that / or is the library too spialized ?
06:38.30learnerthe new editor under development is mostly C++ right now
06:39.04learnerrad kits? for what?
06:39.27Cheshircrad= rapid application development
06:39.39learneryes, I know.. for what :)
06:39.50Cheshirclike vb / port to c
06:40.09Cheshirci thought there was soma that for nix now too
06:40.35learnerTcl is a higher level glue language like that
06:40.45learnerquirky, but higher level
06:41.46Cheshircsorry.. i don't know .. i guess now for this project .. u are savy enough to know that u just have to put your head down and go for it
06:42.01Cheshircnow=not
06:42.01learnerin general, generic rad languages are either too platform-specific (cocoa, vb, .net) or generally too inefficient
06:42.34learnerfor our uses/interests/needs at least
06:42.47Cheshircahh .. ok
06:43.02learnerTcl was somewhat of a hindsight regret, but it is rather cross-platform at least
06:43.57learnercocoa is probably the fastest or most efficient to code in, but only works on one platform
06:45.16learnersomething like python or ruby have potential, but they're generally more problematic to get right performance-wise
06:45.21Cheshirci need to find out more about this kinda thing.. i just saw py-numeric stuff recently .
06:45.54Cheshirci thought a guy could hack up a framwork that way
06:47.13Cheshirci think i'm embarasing myself too much
06:47.15Cheshirchehehe
06:47.39learnerheh, nah
06:48.41learnereveryone has their area of stuff that they're good at/for
06:54.19learnerso you know, you're more than welcome to contribute here.. we've got a very "open door" policy with more than enough to work on, be it websites, code, docs, tutorials, databasing, and then some
06:54.40Cheshircthanks
06:54.56*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (~c28bf505@bz.bzflag.bz)
06:55.32Cheshircwutcha databasing ?
06:56.07learnerseveral different projects there
06:56.22Cheshircor , ah wut needs databasing ?
06:56.23learnerthe most significant is probably benchmark results
06:57.13learnerwe have performance numbers that go back more than 20 years from very very old computers (pdp-11, vax, cray-xmp, apple ii, etc) forward through time
06:57.15Cheshircsounds like fun
06:57.46learnerwant to basically gather all that information together into a database and draw up graphs of performance, etc
06:58.18learneryou can compare how a machine today compares to a 50 million dollar supercomputer from the mid 80's
06:58.34Cheshirci was trying to comapre nux's on the same hardware with the byte/ unix benchmarks .. but alsa .. all my hd s and different
06:58.39learnersee how much of a difference different types of cache make
06:58.48learnerdifferent compilers
06:58.57learnerthe performance improvements of brl-cad itself over time
06:58.58Cheshircare different
06:59.43Cheshirccool build last two vers... comape results
06:59.49learnerthe brl-cad benchmark is pretty "stable" benchmark in that it's a direct timing of our core library doing "real" work -- it raytraces a standard set of images
06:59.57learnerexactly
07:00.21learnercould even rerun older versions (we have sources and binary)
07:00.44Cheshircmost of these guys have mega video cards though .. right .. u kinda gotta
07:00.46Cheshirc?
07:01.04learnerno, not really
07:01.17learnerraytracing is all done on the cpu
07:01.21learnervery cpu and memory intensive
07:01.30Cheshirci'd bet that has alotta impact
07:01.37Cheshircok
07:02.04learnerit's a very good metric for comparing a machine's general performance given how it tests memory and cpu
07:02.38Cheshirci woulda never ... fun stuff
07:02.41learnerthe graphics card only comes into play in the modeler where you're spinning things around.. that has nothing to do with the brl-cad benchmark
07:03.00learnerin fact it was written before there even were "graphics cards"
07:03.05Cheshirclol
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07:03.41cad170hi
07:03.58Cheshirci remember talking with a guy that had 128m vidio card .. years ago ... mac, i think
07:04.04learnera nice old picture on one of the first that did have a graphical vector display:  http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292&ssid=4474
07:04.33Cheshirclike more than ten years ago, i think ... now it's commanplace
07:05.01cad170god bless gamers
07:05.13learnerindeed :)
07:05.53learnerthe pdp-11 had 4mb total system memory
07:06.11Cheshircfunny pic ... remids my of the boxes i worked on in highschool
07:06.21learnerthat was before my time, though
07:07.11Cheshircthey used cards for input
07:07.15Cheshirchehehe
07:07.19learnerCheshirc, that's just the "display terminal" to the computer -- the computer itself is much bigger
07:08.06Cheshircyea ... probly as big as 5 refriuators , just out of view
07:09.51Cheshircthat darm Remote ..
07:10.06Cheshircat least he didn't  kick him
07:12.00Cheshircwell thanks for the info .. i'll come back soon to check back
07:12.32Cheshirci can't remember wut box the tar is on
07:12.40learnerno problem
07:13.07learnerahh, west coaster, eh?
07:13.17Cheshirci have this one old beater with 5 removable drives
07:13.33Cheshircten distros on 3? machines
07:14.16Cheshircyepper .. all most far west as u can get from here .. hehehehe
07:14.55Cheshirctoo bad all the new hacks are hd clones
07:15.27Cheshircwut do u use ?
07:15.43Cheshirchd=rh .. redhat
07:15.44learnermy primary workstations are mac os x now
07:15.55learnerfor several years now
07:16.12learnerI have various linux boxes too
07:16.20Cheshirci just loaded foresight
07:16.30learnergentoo is my general pref, but I have/do run debian and rh
07:16.46learnermy main server is freebsd
07:16.52Cheshircyopper.. fc4 .. kubutu.. tinysofa
07:17.24Cheshircmandrake seems to be the most uptodate / out of the box
07:18.02Cheshirccentos seems pretty good
07:18.09learnerever tried gentoo?
07:18.27Cheshirci got the cd's .. not yet
07:19.14Cheshircfreebsd rc . netbsd next, i think
07:21.27learnertried os x?
07:21.43Cheshircthere are like 5 rhel4 clones out there .. i like to see which one is going to get the most update/net wiki support
07:21.58Cheshircos x .. no
07:22.07Cheshirci'll check it out
07:22.13learnervery much like a mix of freebsd and linux where most everything just works
07:22.44learnerno senseless unending editing of config files and hunting for manual pages
07:22.54Cheshircmandrake LE is pretty spiffy
07:23.51Cheshircpy 2.4 pgsql 8.0.1+
07:24.18Cheshircthey seem to have it all packaged up
07:25.59learnermmhmm
07:27.19Cheshircbeen on it since cr3?
07:27.59Cheshircrc3+ always been stable/ easy to load .. no crashes
07:29.36Cheshirci can't say that about the others, although it might be my video
07:30.11learnerof mandrake?  no.. haven't used it in years
07:30.33learnerlinux took a second seat after I picked up mac os x as my primary
07:30.40Cheshirci think they just took the lead
07:31.00learnerhmm? who took what lead?
07:31.16learneros vendor-wise.. I believe gentoo just snatched the lead from debian
07:31.17Cheshirclooks/ feels ready for prime time
07:31.58learnerat least when counting number of seats, gentoo and debian have been ranked close
07:32.33Cheshircease of use/install/update/most recent packaging all that , i could be mistaken
07:33.24learneroh, probably in that regard
07:33.35learnernot exactly in terms of popularity though
07:33.49learnermandrake has always been one of the easiest
07:34.14Cheshircyea, i ve got wut .. 5 deb derivitaves
07:34.25learnerdebian for stability, gentoo for performance, mandrake for speed, redhat for support
07:34.40learners/speed/ease/  bleh
07:35.14Cheshirchate the font thingie ... it's probably work out somewhere, i just havn't looked it up
07:35.43Cheshirclol
07:40.58Cheshircah well thanks .. seeya soon
07:41.06learnernice to meet you
07:41.10*** part/#brlcad Cheshirc (~Sammer@71-32-2-186.spkn.qwest.net)
10:08.33archivistgot a few errors on my box from last nights download http://www.pastebin.archivist.info/pastebin.php?show=9
10:08.53archivistdebian woody (a bit old i know)
12:51.42learnerarchivist, ahh, thou hasn't not read INSTALL -- run ./autogen.sh first
12:54.54learnerwe use the entire gnu build system, which consists of autoconf, automake, and libtool -- the prep steps for all three are different from running just autoconf -- in fact i'm shocked that made a configure script
12:56.51learnerthe autogen.sh script encapsulates everything that has to be done, as well as accounts for several version mismatch bugs or system misconfigurations, as well as checks for proper versions before even getting started
13:07.00archivistheh step 1 says nothing about autoconf.sh
13:07.44archivistor even at all
13:12.43learnerwhere it says something to that effect if you check out from CVS
13:14.15archivistya mean ignore INSTALL the file that SHOULD tell me what to do
13:14.27learnerThe rest of the docs are geared on the assumption of a source distribution where the configure script was pregenerated for you
13:14.52learneryou don't have to ignore INSTALL, it talks about what you can do after you run autogen.sh
13:14.56learnerbasically the steps to build are:
13:15.00learner./autogen.sh
13:15.06learner./configure
13:15.11learnermake
13:15.18learnersudo make install (or su then make install)
13:16.15learnerthere's a lot of options you can give to configure, but the defaults will basically be the easiest and most inclusive for now
13:18.29archivistI cant try it till i get home tonight, the first page of readme was just info, so i jumped straight to install you could move that extra step to install so ppl dont miss it
13:25.59learnerthat's in our TODO file
13:26.22learner"* need non-generic installation instructions"
13:28.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: make sure sgi knobs work, add variance/deviation to benchmarks
13:29.52archivistI noticed the make windows work todo, which compiler do ppl use on windows
13:30.05narnialearner, fyi, tomorrow, 11 may 2005, i am out all day. yet another wasted day in the state of illinois court system.
13:33.08learnerthat todo is general developer musings, a better list is the tasks and tracker items up on the sf.net project page
13:33.37learnerthat said, there are some using studio, others using gcc (cygwin/mingw/msys)
13:33.50learnernarnia, okie dokie -- good luck again
13:33.56learnerhopefully as good as last time
13:33.59learneror better
13:45.20narnialearner, luck has nothing to do with the illinois court system. the party who is able to bribe the officials usually wins.
13:59.25narnialearner, after 8+yrs of legal nightmare the opposing sides can still tie the case up on appeals. the opposing sides are hoping i die before the case ever gets out of appeals.
14:34.39*** join/#brlcad pinnipedia (~dgreisen@cheney7.roaming.susx.ac.uk)
14:36.00pinnipediahello Sean
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15:51.44*** part/#brlcad pinnipedia (~dgreisen@cheney7.roaming.susx.ac.uk)
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18:31.25archivistI wonder who i am
18:32.09brlcadyou get the build to work?
18:32.37archivistnot yet its at home and im at work
18:34.34archivistjust reading the db format for fun
18:42.44brlcadwhat's your particular interest in brl-cad?
18:42.54brlcaddon't recall, are you a dev?
18:45.53archivistim interested as a mech designer, but have also been a software person as well, and i like open source, The company i am at could never afford a system like solid edge or solidworks etc
18:47.04archivistI have used solidworks so I am converted to 3d design
18:48.12*** join/#brlcad Pimpinella (~frank@p54818B96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:48.25archivistI was in #c when you were looking for a dev some time ago, downloaded and looked at the source at the time
19:06.01*** join/#brlcad pinnipedia (~dgreisen@cheney7.roaming.susx.ac.uk)
19:06.50pinnipediahi Sean
19:51.47brlcadhello pinnipedia
19:52.18pinnipediathis is Daniel, we've been conversing on the sourceforge forum
19:52.20brlcadarchivist: ahhh, ok
19:52.26pinnipediathank you for your help
19:52.43brlcadapologies if I ask you again down the road.. lots of channels, lots of folks :)
19:53.05brlcadpinnipedia: hmm.. :)
19:53.11pinnipediacompletely understandable
19:53.42brlcadyour welcome, I think.. assuming i was actually helpful :)
19:54.02pinnipediawell, I got through most of the conflicts
19:54.15brlcadahh, ping pong build craziness
19:54.20brlcadnow i remember
19:54.34brlcadi'm really sorry about all of that.. should not be that many issues
19:55.09brlcadusing the latest cvs would've helped, but you really should have been on the verge of it working
19:55.37pinnipediaAs far as I can tell, the default Ubuntu install is short on most of the developer packages
19:55.51pinnipediaI even had to download gcc
19:55.54brlcadnoticed :)
19:56.30brlcadokay, so you ended up with that last odd error after that last clean rebuild, right?
19:56.35pinnipediayeah
19:57.07brlcadhow can I help get it working for you?
19:57.16brlcadI can walk you through the steps from scratch
19:57.22brlcadwe can continue where we left off
19:57.31brlcadI can perform the build remotely if you like
19:57.55pinnipediaI honestly don't have an informed opinion, I'm fairly new to the OS
19:58.27brlcadis your end goal to simply get a binary install?
19:58.37pinnipediayes
19:58.41brlcadi.e. "just get it working"?
19:58.44pinnipediayep
19:58.53brlcadokay, hardware specs?
19:59.04brlcadi.e. processor type
19:59.18pinnipediaCompaq Armada E500s laptop, Pentium III 650, 256MB RAM
20:00.14brlcadrunning linux
20:00.17brlcadwhich kernel?
20:00.28brlcaduname -a
20:00.42pinnipediait's one of the 2.6.x's, I'll check for the exact revision
20:01.24brlcadthat's good enough
20:01.25pinnipediaLinux betasigma 2.6.10-5-386 #1 Tue Apr 5 12:12:40 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
20:02.06brlcadi'll make a build for you of the latest on a 2.4 kernel just in case there are compatibility issues
20:02.11brlcadthat should be a quick "test"
20:02.18brlcadif that fails, we can try a build
20:02.26brlcadgive me about 15 minutes to get the build made
20:02.44pinnipediaok, thanks
20:03.05brlcadout of curiosity, did you try the ia32 binary?
20:03.20brlcadnot that I recommend it, it's a bit dated compared to the latest
20:03.23brlcadjust wondering
20:03.39pinnipediano
20:03.59pinnipediaIs that the 7.0 off of the sourceforge site?
20:04.47brlcadyes
20:05.07pinnipedianope, I didn't install it
20:05.15brlcadk, no worries
20:05.28brlcadany problems getting into irc? :)
20:06.03pinnipedianope
20:34.28brlcadalrighty, it's almost done building
20:34.38pinnipediak
20:35.52pinnipediaI've been messing around, trying installing different packages. Nothing so far in getting past the compile error
20:40.11brlcadit sounds like it failed to create libbn, yet there is a stub file from the looks of the error
20:40.31brlcadwhile this is still building, try: cd src/libbn ; make
20:41.20brlcaddoes it report an error?  if it does "nothing": rm libbn.la ; make
20:41.58pinnipediait'll be a minute
20:42.56pinnipediado I do ./autogen.sh and ./configure in the brlcad-7.2.2 directory or in src/libbn
20:43.19brlcadi suspect the "real" problem is that autogen.sh failed, which means one of the build tools is not installed or not up to date
20:44.43pinnipediaubuntu didn't come with those, so I just kept installing what it asked for until it ran. In the end it needed: autoconf, automake, and libtool
20:45.17brlcadyep, what versions of those does autogen say you have?
20:45.40brlcadand does autogen.sh end with an error or say the build is ready?
20:47.20pinnipediaautoconf 2.59, automake 1.9.4, libtool 1.5.6
20:47.29pinnipediait says to run ./configure next
20:47.37brlcadno error lines?
20:48.28pinnipediaFound GNU Autoconf version 2.59
20:48.28pinnipediaFound GNU Automake version 1.9.4
20:48.28pinnipediaFound GNU Libtool version 1.5.6
20:48.28pinnipediaAutomatically preparing build ... need to restore backup of INSTALL
20:48.28pinnipediadone
20:48.28pinnipediaThe BRL-CAD build system is now prepared.  To build here, run:
20:48.30pinnipedia<PROTECTED>
20:48.32pinnipedia<PROTECTED>
20:48.49brlcadahh, that's a mostly perfect autogen.sh
20:48.52brlcadso that's not it
20:51.20pinnipedia./configure has a line about libbn:
20:51.31pinnipediaconfig.status: creating src/libbn/Makefile
20:52.34pinnipediathe results of running make in src/libbn:
20:52.42pinnipediamake  all-am
20:52.42pinnipediamake[1]: Entering directory `/home/dgreisen/brlcad-7.2.2/src/libbn'
20:52.42pinnipediamake[1]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'.
20:52.42pinnipediamake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/dgreisen/brlcad-7.2.2/src/libbn'
20:53.01brlcadyeah, something stale in there
20:53.10brlcadcd src/libbn ; make clean ; make
20:55.21pinnipediait's finished, don't see any errors
20:58.41pinnipediado I try make again in the main directory, or run autogen and configure again first?
20:59.22brlcadno no..
20:59.58brlcadno more autogen/configure, try: cd ../bwish
21:00.02brlcadmake clean ; make
21:01.00pinnipediadone, no erros
21:01.02pinnipediaerrors
21:01.58brlcadgood, cd ../tclscripts ; make
21:02.21pinnipedia../../src/bwish/btclsh ../../src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl ../../src/tclscripts
21:02.21pinnipedia/home/dgreisen/brlcad-7.2.2/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh: error while loading shared libraries: libbn.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
21:02.21pinnipediamake: *** [pkgIndex.tcl] Error 127
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21:03.04brlcadhmm.., sounds like libtool is not doing what it should
21:03.46brlcadno matter, the binary build finished
21:04.54brlcaduploading
21:05.00pinnipediathanks
21:05.39brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/BRL-CAD-7.2.3.bin.tar.gz
21:05.58brlcadsudo tar zxvf BRL-CAD-7.2.3.bin.tar.gz
21:07.17pinnipediaIt'll be about 6:30
21:08.21brlcadhours or minutes?
21:08.32pinnipediaminutes
21:08.47brlcadhad me worried there for a sec :)
21:10.06pinnipediaI've been spoiled by university broadband. It doesn't really occur to me to think of download times in hours anymore
21:15.32pinnipediadoes it matter where the file is? it's currently in my home directory?
21:17.52brlcadno, it doesn't/shouldn't
21:17.52brlcadit should expand into /usr/brlcad
21:18.20pinnipediadone
21:18.25brlcadgreat
21:18.29brlcadnow to test it
21:18.40brlcadyou use bash for a shell?
21:18.50brlcadyou need to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path
21:19.02brlcadexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
21:19.08pinnipediaGnome terminal, not sure which this is
21:19.56brlcadif you add that export line to your ~/.bash_profile then it will always load when you open up a new terminal
21:20.09pinnipediait didn't install to /usr/brlcad, it installed to ~/usr/brlcad
21:20.21brlcadbah
21:20.34brlcadsudo mv ~/usr/brlcad /usr/.
21:21.31pinnipediaso now I type the export PATH... ?
21:22.05brlcadyes
21:22.27pinnipediadone
21:22.46brlcadokay, easy test.. just type "rt"
21:22.52brlcadwhat does it output?
21:23.05pinnipediaBRL-CAD Release 7.2.3   The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
21:23.05pinnipedia<PROTECTED>
21:23.05pinnipedia<PROTECTED>
21:23.05pinnipediaBRL-CAD Release 7.2.3   The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
21:23.05pinnipedia<PROTECTED>
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21:23.44pinnipediait didn't like that copy/paste
21:24.31brlcadhehe, yes, you got kicked off :)
21:24.54pinnipediaa couple of lines about it being BRL-CAD and your email, then running on betasigma, then rt: MGED database not specified
21:25.23pinnipediaUsage:  rt [options] model.g objects...
21:25.23pinnipediaOptions:
21:25.23pinnipedia<PROTECTED>
21:26.05pinnipediaI was in /usr when I typed rt
21:26.56pinnipediaif I go into /usr/brlcad and type mged, the modelling window comes up
21:32.26brlcadexcellent
21:32.40brlcadthat was correct for rt too, it's just a usage message
21:33.03brlcadyou don't need to be in /usr/brlcad to type mged, it's in your path so you just type "mged' from anywhere
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21:33.19brlcadthat's where if you add that export line to you ~/.bash_profile, it will always be in your path
21:34.04pinnipediayep, it works from everywhere
21:34.56brlcadif you want to see something mildly interesting, run the following in the gnome terminal:
21:35.18brlcadasc2g ~/brlcad-7.2.2/db/havoc.asc ~/havoc.g
21:35.24brlcadthen in mged:
21:35.46brlcadopendb /home/dgreisen/havoc.g
21:35.51brlcade havoc
21:36.08brlcadshould see a vehicle
21:37.20pinnipedianeat
21:37.38brlcadthere's a rather detailed introduction to mged available on the website: http://brlcad.org
21:37.43brlcaddocument #2
21:37.58pinnipediaI got about half way through it on my old distro
21:38.05pinnipediait looks like quite the program
21:38.07brlcadahh, okay
21:38.27brlcadmged only scratches the surface of the entire package, but it's what most are interested in for the modeling
21:39.16pinnipediaI figure I'll become proficient in the modelling first :)
21:40.13pinnipediaI understand that the ballistics modelling is quite good
21:40.38brlcadthe expert modelers around here are pretty impressive with it
21:40.44brlcadgeometry just flows from them
21:41.14brlcadyeah, it'd be nice if we could share some of the really detailed models, but there's good reasons for why not
21:41.15pinnipediado they mainly use the command line?
21:41.27brlcadit's a mix
21:41.42brlcadmost use both to different degrees
21:42.04brlcadthe new modeler will have a much improved gui interface, but that's years away from end-user use
21:42.32brlcadif you're more "gui inclined", you might be interested in the Tools -> Geometry Browser
21:43.07pinnipediaI'm a bit of both
21:43.36pinnipediamost of my 3d cad experience is on ProE, but I first learned on AutoCAD
21:44.15pinnipediaAnd then I've, unfortunately, had to do a fair bit of modelling in ANSYS, so that's almost all command line
21:46.45pinnipediathank you very much for your help getting this up and running
21:46.50brlcadbrl-cad's modeler is clearly not up to the user interface of pro/e or autocad, though we've had a mere fraction of the resources invested and very little justification for improving the user interface
21:47.30brlcadhard to fund the user interface when it's the raytracing library that is the bread and butter -- the modeler was usually "good enough" most of the time
21:48.08brlcadthat is going to change now, though, that we're open source and able to work with the community as a project on our own
21:49.00brlcadno problem, apologies that it took up so much of your time trying to get it built.  I'll have to get my hands on a fresh ubuntu system at some point to fix the dependancies.
21:49.15pinnipediashould be able to get some work done on the UI, I imagine that programming the UI is quite different from programming the physics backend
21:49.36pinnipedianot a problem, I've learned a lot in the process
21:50.27brlcadthere's not a physics backend in brl-cad beyond light/energy transport, the modeler is all just mathematics and geometry
21:59.44pinnipediawell, thank you again for your help, I'm going to go and learn the program a bit more
22:01.26brlcadnot a problem, I'm here most of the time if anything comes up
22:01.33pinnipediathanks
22:01.33brlcador feel free to just hang out
22:03.08brlcadalso if you ask a question while I'm away, you can idle and i or someone else will answer it eventually
22:08.12archivist"new modeler" ? is there a wish list somewhere to comment on?
22:22.47pinnipediaI'm trying to import some other models to look at, by typing asc2g ~brlcad-7.2.2/db/cray.asc ~/cray.g buyt it's returning the error bash: asc2g: command not found
23:00.02brlcadpinnipedia: command not found means /usr/brlcad/bin is not in your path
23:00.19brlcaddid you add the: export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH        to your ~/.bash_profile file
23:00.44brlcadarchivist: not yet
23:01.26pinnipediayes, earlier I typed in export PATH...
23:01.51archivistok tnks
23:02.01pinnipediaThe asc2g command worked to import the havoc model
23:02.41brlcadright, but if you create a new gnome terminal,  you'd have to type it again (unless you add it to ~/.bash_profile)
23:02.50pinnipediaah, got it, thanks
23:02.55brlcadit doesn't "stick" .. unless you add it to that file
23:05.45brlcadarchivist: feel free to post up your ideas or share them here -- much of it is likely being planned already in some fashion, but reinforcement of what's important to you is always good to hear
23:08.33brlcadunfortunately, going open source has actually delayed things quite a bit :) .. have to keep pressing on the build system and website some more before I'll be able to get back to it full steam
23:10.03archivistthers one thing a can't draw in solidworks a fusee (a clock part) which has a spiral/helix on a curved barrel
23:11.02pinnipediathanks, it's working again
23:14.31brlcadarchivist: got a picture?
23:15.12brlcadlike this:
23:15.13brlcadhttp://www.clockguy.com/SiteRelated/SiteReferencePages/FuseeMovement.html
23:17.20archivistyes thats the part, i think it needs a new cut type as well (like a ball-end milled groove)
23:20.10archivistspecial machines were made to manufacture them, So nowadays a cnc could make it if a simple path could be designed in the cad system
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23:25.28brlcadthat would be rather difficult to manufacture
23:27.02brlcadthe basic shape looks like the inside bottom half of a toroidal surface, with a spiral grove added/subtracted
23:28.16archivistit should be easy with a rotating axis below a milling head, just that the spiral has to stop and then drill at the large end
23:30.04archivistthe curve its on has to match the force from a spring to even out the torque delivered to the clock
23:36.43archivistone i'm working on, http://www.archivist.info/P3150762.JPG, it would have been nice to replace it, but with current methods it wont get done
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050511

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050511

00:37.11brlcadinteresting
00:37.17brlcadthat's a good model for demonstration
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01:25.56CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: use generic pointers for the avs min/max ranges
01:46.59CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: instead of sleeping 5 seconds indefinately, retry every second up to a minute before giving up on starting the stand-alone daemon.
02:24.53CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/args.m4): prefix the ARG macro variables with bc_ so that they do not conflict with potential argument variables being tested (e.g. with_java was the var and java was an alias, causing an overwrite of with_java)
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02:31.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c:
02:31.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: fix bu_debug memory checking.. if run-time debugging is enabled, we cannot
02:31.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: simply call calloc since we need to allocate the extra space for BU_DEBUG_CHECK
02:31.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: and BU_DEBUG_MEM_QCHECK. this of course prevents bu barriercheck corruption and
02:31.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: false-positives. (this fixes sf bug 1163383 and 1198866)
02:34.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/avs.c: make sure we're not trying to free null avs pointers. also set the counters to zero/null when we're done just in case.
02:38.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: ws
02:39.20CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: no need to embed the scope in the middle of the function for the argv array.. hope that thing is getting free'd somewhere
02:40.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: contrary to popular evidence, initialize the avs structs to empty anyways.
02:40.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed libbu run-time memory corruption checking (fixes sf bug 1198866 and 1163383)
02:40.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/comb.c: ws
02:51.32CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: (log message trimmed)
02:51.32CIA-3BRL-CAD: rework db5_import_attributes() hopefully resolving a long-standing (4 years)
02:51.32CIA-3BRL-CAD: issue with simply referencing the external representation's memory buffer in the
02:51.32CIA-3BRL-CAD: ap pointer. this prevents a strdup otherwise required for _every_ single
02:51.32CIA-3BRL-CAD: attribute, using up twice as much memory for attributes. this version also only
02:51.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: allocates exactly what it needs without the extra padding, and only as it needs
02:51.35CIA-3BRL-CAD: it per the rate set in bu_avs_add if AVS_ADD is defined (otherwise it's all
03:02.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: help indentation by using a preprocessor symbol for the fopen mode
03:27.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/elapsed.sh: if the start and end times are actually equal, elapsed needs to be zero seconds not 86400. more likely that we ran elapsed within a second than it is that it took exactly a day to the second..
03:57.30narnialearner, i am shutdown my servers since i am in court tomorrow, 11 may 2005. be back after court.
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04:30.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (prep.c wdb_obj.c): initialize the attribute value sets to empty before passing them anywherre, there's too many implicit assumptions occuring with them without checking their magic/count..
04:34.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c:
04:34.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: rework the horrid attribute value getter func yet again, semi reverting back to
04:34.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: the version that allocates all of the memory up front. there's something
04:34.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: preventing the incremental allocation from going through cleanly right now that
04:34.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: should probably be debugged at some point.. allocating up front probably only
04:34.27CIA-3BRL-CAD: works because it blows away any existing contents (whereas the incremental
04:34.28CIA-3BRL-CAD: wouldn't) implying that something isn't initialized by the time it gets here.
04:51.57CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: found it! hopefully the last uninitialized attribute value set that was preventing incremental adds/allocations.
05:12.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: de-c++commentify and commentify on why we alloc up front. there is indeed some problem with the non bu_avs_add, but save that for future debugging.
05:20.37CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
05:20.37CIA-3BRL-CAD: setting src/librt/db5_io.c's AVS_ADD off in db5_import_attributes |
05:20.37CIA-3BRL-CAD:  causes bad things to happen and it really shouldn't.
05:21.10CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: benchmarks actually take about 15 minutes
05:38.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c:
05:38.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: no answer from bob so rerevert the size arguments to rt and rtcheck so that the
05:38.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: defaults are used. there was a problematic case where depending on the
05:38.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: order/type of your args in mged, you could not override the default.
05:38.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: regardless, less overlap sneaks through the cracks with the more dense grid even
05:38.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: if at the expense of a little run-time delay. was there another reason for
05:38.27CIA-3BRL-CAD: setting the sizes explicitly?
05:41.11brlcadand on that question, I retire for the morning
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10:28.56archivista small buglet autogen.sh has dos line ends debian woody didnt like it
11:31.27brlcadoh?
11:31.31brlcadwhich two?
11:32.05archivisttwo?
11:32.45brlcadahh, "DOS", not dos ..
11:33.11archivisthehe yes
11:34.56brlcadwonder how those snuck in
11:35.34archivistthe shell gives a "file not found" its the #!/bin/sh line that fails
11:36.15archivisteasy done with editors these days as systems get better at ignoring line end types
11:36.17brlcadhrm
11:36.38brlcadI just checked a local checkout and there are no dos line endings
11:37.21archivisti wonder if toitoise cvs that i use added it?
11:37.45brlcadahh
11:37.49brlcadyou're on windows?
11:38.12brlcadfor the checkout
11:38.25archivistI could do with a linux system at work, yes
11:43.24archivisthmm must find another way of checking out then
11:45.01archivistah tortoiseCVS has a unix line end option :))
11:46.03brlcadyes, just found that :)
11:46.04brlcadhttp://www.tortoisecvs.org/faq.html#brokenlineendings
11:46.59archivistI'll delete my download and have another go
11:54.20archivistI thought of a curve that I dont remember seeing anywhere yet and that is the involute curve for gear design
11:55.57archivistand clockmakers need epicycloidal curves for clock and watch gears
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16:03.38brlcadhello mycr0ft
16:04.41mycr0fthiya
16:05.08mycr0ftwas compiling brlcad, had a problem, then figured out it was an nvidia problem.
16:05.27mycr0ftAll before asking anything in here. Mind if I lurk for a while?
16:07.57brlcadlurk as long as you like :)
16:40.00mycr0ftanybody contribute a gentoo ebuild for brlcad?
17:20.22brlcadsomeone was working on it, but they haven't been around in a while
17:21.34brlcadif you do make one, I'd like to try to integrate it into cvs so that the ebuild is automatically updated when we make a release
17:40.04brlcadthe biggest problem that we have to address is the fact that with our dozen libraries and hundreds of applications, there's a good chance we'll conflict with something already installed
17:40.49brlcadour traditional solution and preference is an isolated install root (e.g. /usr/brlcad) like X11 does
17:41.52brlcadthe packaging systems discourage that for consistency's sake so some changes might be warranted in the build system to put things in different locations
17:42.14brlcadif you know of any other general policy for resolving conflicting names, I'd be glad to hear about them
17:44.21mycr0fthehe, nope
17:44.43mycr0ftat least having an ebuild for local installs would be useful
17:45.10mycr0fteven if directory placement offends the sensibilities of the powers that be
17:45.27mycr0ftI had no problem installing into my /home
17:45.41brlcad:)
17:45.47mycr0ftSo a /usr/local or a /usr/brlcad should be fine too.
17:47.23mycr0ftI'll post to the discussion list if I get one to work. I sub-ed today
17:48.18brlcadever used swig?
17:48.46brlcadcurious as to how it will wrap a c++ object/method
17:49.09brlcadsorry, completely unrelated topic.. just muusing
18:55.40*** join/#brlcad noyb (~noyb@pool-71-108-66-222.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
18:56.35noybbrlcad: as I was saying at #bzflag...  sorry I missed you.  I fell asleep moments after I called you.
18:57.07brlcadi saw, no problem
18:57.20noybok.  cool.  it's been months.  what's new?
18:58.22brlcadoh, depends what interests you :)
18:58.29brlcadlots of dev'ing
18:58.36noybdid you (or anybody) make a translator thingy for making maps with brlcad?  
18:58.40brlcadbuild fixes, bug fixes, features
18:59.00brlcadi haven't gotten back to that yet, but it's still high on my list of things to get working on
18:59.02noybcool
18:59.42noybthat's ok, I haven't upgraded from 7.0 yet, so it would have been wasted on me anyway.  :-)
19:01.40noybI just got the 7.2.2 tarball...  is there a sort of "what's new" file in there?
19:01.55brlcad7.2.4 will be released later today
19:02.16brlcadyes, there's a NEWS file that has the list of changes
19:02.43noybshucks...  ok I'll wait.
19:04.00noybdo you mind putting up a MD5 checksum for the files?  I noticed today that sf.net has some things for download that do not match their md5 so I trashed 'em.
19:05.20brlcadwhere are you seeing the md5 on sf.net?
19:06.19noybnot for brlcad, but for a different package. sry I didn't clarify that.
19:07.11brlcadahh
19:07.37noybit seems that all of the mirrors have the wrong size file.  I had the file already, and it matches the md5 but the ones on the mirrors do not.  strange.
19:08.05noybissues at sf.net or isolated case?
19:09.47archivistthey do have their fair share of issues, delay passing files about is probably a good reason
19:23.46noybwith 99,000+ projects...  something's bound to go wrong...  
19:29.07mycr0ftbrlcad: sorry. sh I have used swig for python wrapping of C, not C++. (was away parenting)
19:55.28brlcadmycr0ft: no problem, I never expect an immediate response from any channel/discussion ;)
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20:26.27*** part/#brlcad disgruntled_goat (~user@client-82-13-47-32.brhm.adsl.virgin.net)
20:29.20CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: ChangeLog is autogenerated, so nothing to check prior to release
21:40.19CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: changelog entries from 7.2.2 to 7.2.4 for release
21:45.35CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: s/syserr/strerror/
21:50.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/prnt.c: avoid sys_nerr for solaris
21:57.05CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: ttcp needs socket and nsl (solaris choked)
22:52.07*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
22:58.46CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: contacted durfee, he was at cmu at the time (as well as bel air hs). shumaker has been gubbymint for a little while now.
22:58.49brlcadwb narnia
22:59.34narniabrlcad, court sucked.
22:59.59brlcadsorry to hear that
23:00.07brlcadyou had better news last time
23:00.15narniabrlcad, i have 30,000+ pages of legal documents on a cdrom. the opposing lawyers now want me to print them out.
23:01.36narniai figure that is 5 cases of paper and at least two laser jet toners or 12 ink jet cartridges for the hp all-in-one 7100 of my daughter.
23:02.07noybtake the job to Kinko's... get a receipt and slap it on the other lawyers when you win...   :-)
23:02.11narniathe legal documents are e-mail messages in mbox format.
23:02.39noybmp can be your friend.  nice output of mbox format.
23:02.53narniakinko's want $3000.00 usd to print it. needless to say i do not have $3000.00 usd.
23:03.36brlcadshouldn't your lawyer be dealing with that?
23:04.04noybprint it in *very* small print... ?  (they probably didn't specify)   :)
23:04.23narniabrlcad, my lawyers fought hard to prevent the opposing lawyers request.
23:04.44noyb3 points should be fine, and with mpage you could get 9 or 16 "pages" per page...
23:05.44narniathe opposing lawyers won their argument when they produced reams of paper of e-mail messages in mime format ( base64) not human readbale.
23:06.35narniait is a stalling tactic.
23:06.37brlcadthat would usually imply office documents
23:07.52narniai also have my job search data on the cdrom. 6000+ possible job hits which i sent resumes to. those are in html.
23:08.41narniathere are also pdf and ps (postscript files).
23:08.46CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: add the last minute solaris fixes
23:09.43narniathe opposing lawyers also spent nearly an hour questioning me about my never using anything microsoft.
23:10.35narniai kept telling them i always owned apple macs or ran linux, one of the bsds.
23:11.13archivistsounds good enough for groklaw
23:11.19brlcadlet me guess, the requested evidence that you've tried to get a job, you gave them a disc of your e-mail, they printed it out saying "we can't read it", and then got the judge to put the burden back on you
23:11.32narniayes
23:14.10narniatheir request is a two-edge sword. once those 30000+ pages are submitted as evidence for the opposing lawyers to get their copies they have to pay $0.50 us cents per page to the clerk of the court. so they are looking at $15,000.00 usd per copy.
23:15.57brlcadpennies to them in the big scheme of the lawsuit though, I'm sure
23:16.00narniatotal court records page count would be close to 100,000 pages. if any side thinks of appealling to higher courts it will cost roughly $50,000.00 usd for a single copy of all court records.
23:19.35narniai feel sorry for the clerk who has to stamp all those pages with an evidense stamp.
23:20.57brlcadthey're either getting paid minimum wage or they have a machine to do it
23:21.35narniano they hand stamp each page.
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23:37.33cad285Is anyone willing to hear my silly questions about brlcad?  Specifically on the ray-tracer?  
23:37.51brlcadask away silly asking person
23:38.32cad285I'm interested in hijacking the brlcad raytrace code to make my own optical design software.
23:38.52brlcadthat's what it's designed for
23:38.55cad285In particular, I would like code that finds where ray's intersect geometry.
23:39.02cad285err.. rays.
23:39.15brlcadokay
23:39.21cad285I'm confused about the difference between librt and rt
23:39.30brlcadthere are at least a dozen examples of that :)
23:39.48brlcadthe difference is mostly design and separation
23:40.00cad285Ok, well, this is great news.
23:40.13brlcadmuch of what is in rt should be in librt, but for historic reasons it's in the "front end"
23:40.17cad285Which one provides the lowest level access to geometrical primitives?
23:40.29brlcad"rt" is the actual BRL-CAD raytracer of 20 years age
23:41.12brlcadbrl-cad actually includes several different kinds of raytracers, all based on the same back-end and library code
23:41.53brlcadfirst off, have you read the application programmer's tutorial?
23:42.03cad285No.
23:42.14cad285I should start there I suppose :)
23:42.15brlcadhttp://brlcad.org
23:42.20brlcaddocument #5
23:42.41brlcadyou'll probably be particularly interested in the rtexample.c file
23:42.59brlcadthis file is also in the source distribution
23:43.03cad285Ok, sweet
23:43.06brlcadalong with other kinds of examples
23:43.11cad285I'll try this out, thank you for your help.
23:43.25brlcadthere's a pdf presentation that was given as well on that link that explains most of the interface
23:44.00brlcadthe basic idea is that you write hook functions for a hit, a miss, and maybe an overlap as well as a few other possibilities.. most only care about hit/miss
23:44.41cad285And brlcad has its own language to feed in a geometrical model?
23:45.26brlcadthe ray setup is up to you to describe since some fire single rays, some fire grids, some fire volumes, etc -- but the existing raytracers in src/rt/ will give you working code examples
23:45.39brlcadit's own language?  there is a brl-cad .g file format
23:46.00brlcadthere's also a brl-cad ascii .asc file format
23:46.29brlcadthe routines for writing out those geometry files are also talked about in other places
23:46.33cad285Ok, I should just start reading.
23:46.49cad285Thank you for your help.
23:46.54brlcadif all you need to do is "write" geometry.. then libwdb (write database library) is where to start
23:47.16brlcadfeel free to hang out here and ask questions or come back when something comes up
23:47.26brlcadhang out long enough and someone will answer
23:47.50cad285Are you a main contributor to brlcad?
23:48.05brlcadthat rtexample.c file also includes example code that opens a brl-cad .g database
23:48.47brlcadyeah
23:49.13brlcadi'm the open source lead, one of the core devs
23:49.16*** join/#brlcad learner (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc)
23:49.16*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
23:49.23brlcadyay, learner!
23:50.03cad285Again, thanks for the help, Ill stick around, seems interessting.
23:50.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: dang it, they're enchanted enchancements
23:54.14brlcadcad285: cool deal -- what's the "optical design software" if I might ask?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050512

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050512

01:00.06*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (Here@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
01:12.57CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS): let the fun begin, bump to 7.2.5 now that 7.2.4 is tagged
01:21.59*** topic/#brlcad by learner -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is finally now posted (20050511)
02:02.15Twingyhttp://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/dual_photography/
02:42.42learnermac os x dmg is posted
02:43.45``Erikfbsd/x86 tbz, too :)
02:44.58learnerso it is.. ;)
02:45.13learnerset the date to may 11 on the file
02:46.15learnerit goes by gmt by default
02:46.43learnerusually just match the source unless the files really are uploaded a day or two later
02:48.20``Erikerm, it's been the 12th in gmt for, like, 4 hours now... not the 10th... :)
02:49.30``Erik(sorry, 3 hours, not 4)
02:54.51learneri know, that's what i mean.. i set it to match the Source release (which was on the 11th gmt)
02:55.29learnerotherwise it just pokes questions like yours..
02:55.54learneri can hear it already.. "why did you wait a day to upload the freebsd files?!  they should have been first!"
02:56.06learners/freebsd/<insert OS of choice>/
02:57.57*** join/#brlcad cad119 (~465dcca0@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:58.07CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed compilation support for Solaris.. Sparc 64 is improved, but probably needs more testing still
02:59.33learnereww.. sleep already?!
03:38.20narnialearner, any first hand experience with color laser printers?
03:39.24narnialearner, any thoughts on this one: http://www.office.xerox.com/perl-bin/product.pl?product=8400&page=modl  8400/dp
04:31.43learneryep
04:34.01learnernot a bad printer
04:34.10learnernice price actually
04:35.18learnerhave to be careful on the color toner expenses
04:36.39narnialearner, this one is solid ink. (think crayons)
04:36.45learnerodd, though.. phaser used to be the brand of a really good waxjet company
04:36.52learnerwonder if they bought them out
04:37.34narniathese are the former tektronics printers.
04:37.34learnerahh, crayons.. then it is them
04:38.00learnerthat's a thermal waxjet, not laser
04:38.59learnerthose are/were good printers, i used a tek for years
04:39.55learnerit's rather high quality printing if it's related to the printing you need to do
04:40.01learneryou're going to burn through the black
04:40.42narniathis is true
04:40.55narniamy middle daughter has offered to purchase it.
04:40.59learnerand those "crayons" are definately not cheap
04:41.25learneryou could get a faster high-volume color hp for about the same probably
04:42.08learnerhttp://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-236251-236268.html
04:42.13narniaGenuine Xerox Solid Ink 8400 Black (Six Sticks)6,800 pages$99.99
04:42.29learner1200 for double the volume and rate
04:45.09learnerthe 4600 series is relatively "big", but it is nice and fast, decent quality printing
04:45.48narniaPrice: $155.99*HP Color LaserJet C9720A Black Print Cartridge (C9720A)
04:45.50narniaAverage cartridge yield: approx. 9,000* pages (black)
04:46.04learnerpersonally, given the choice for my own printing, I'd go with the wax jet just because the printing process is so much better (even if significantly lower resolution and slower)
04:46.15learnerbut then I don't have thousands of pages to print
04:46.45narnia~155.99x3
04:46.53narnia~155.99*3
04:46.54ibot467.97
04:47.21narnia~99.00*30000/6800
04:47.22ibot436.764705882353
04:47.51narniaroughly the same cost for black toner or crayon.
04:48.01learnerroughly
04:48.26learneroh, they increased their ppms
04:48.26narnia~155.99*30000/9000
04:48.27ibot519.966666666667
04:48.50learnerthat rebate gives it the edge
04:49.38learnerheck, go with the phaser :)
04:49.40learneri'm jealous
04:49.40narniathe crayon printout are better looking
04:50.15narnialearner, you want to help me print out the 30000+ pages?
04:50.23learnerhmm.. i wonder what their 2400 finepoint technology is like for photography
04:50.38learneryou send me the printer to keep, and I'll print em for ya, sure ;)
04:51.53learnerheck, with os x 10.4 you can use the new automator to convert every email to a pdf and feed it to the printer in a massive unattended batch job
04:51.54narniathis is really stupid printing out the 30000+ pages. there is no way they will read any significant part of it.
04:53.05learnerif it was 30k mime encoded gibbrish, that won't be more than a couple thousand rendered most likely
04:54.15learnernot that it's any better.. but will save more of the pretty phaser's life
04:57.13narniathis is what is mainly on the cdrom. my job search is rather large. http://strauss.blauedonau.com/jobs-09aug2004.dir/
05:08.41narniathis is exactly what is on the cdrom. the opposing lawyers printed out the html files.
05:09.05learnerinteresting
05:09.51narniawhat is interesting?
05:10.13learnerjust all the organization that you have going there
05:10.38learnerso it's probably more like 25000 pages after filtering out html header/footerness
05:10.41narniawell i thought it would make sense to the lawyers and the judge.
05:12.29learneri'll still be jealous if you get the phaser
05:12.42learnerdigital photography and printing are a big hobby
05:13.24learneri've yet to dish out for a high-quality printer.. i send high res images across the country and have them print on the big bad boys
05:14.49learner~200.0 / 6000.0
05:14.51ibot0.033333333333
05:15.24learner~20.0 / 0.03
05:15.25ibot666.666666666667
05:16.02learnerheh, so I'm paying about a 700% markup for the sake of just a little better quality  .. :)
05:21.28narniayou understand the cdrom so why do the opposing lawyers have such a hard time with it?
05:28.02learnerbecause it's their job to make you look unreasonable at the expense of potentially looking stupid
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12:34.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/vers.sh: solaris shell annoyingly will not evaluate multiple connected statements as one (i.e. doesn't know about the variables set until the eval is done), so evaluate them one line at a time.
12:34.24learnerd_rossberg, it's not just anonymous -- it's everyone having trouble with cvs.
12:34.42learnertook me quite a while to get that last commit in
12:35.02learnerkept giving me the same error as you -- if you just keep retrying, it should eventually update
12:35.57learnerblah ; while [ $? != 0 ] ; do sleep 10 ; cvs update ; done
12:35.59learner<PROTECTED>
12:45.47d_rossbergare you able to access sourceforge.net via https?
12:46.24learneryes
12:46.25learnerhttps://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
12:47.24d_rossberghis works for me too
12:47.38d_rossbergbut try this: https://sourceforge.net/account/login.php
12:48.19d_rossberg(it's the "Login via SSL" link)
12:48.55learnerit works for me
12:49.30learneryou don't have an account yet, though right?
12:49.41learneryou can't "Login via SSL" without an account
12:49.53learnerfollow the other link for creating a new account
12:50.36learnerhttps://sourceforge.net/account/newuser_emailverify.php
12:51.06d_rossbergfunny thing, now it works for me too, i got time outs before
12:51.13learnerheh :)
12:53.02learnerfeel free to get creative with the account name! :)
12:53.11d_rossbergI've already an account, guess what's my name?
12:53.26learner:)
12:53.49learneryep, d_rossberg :0
12:54.42d_rossbergbtw, if you search for rossberg at sf.net, you will find references to references on my phd thesis
12:55.54d_rossbergit was a nice time, 10 years ago
12:57.48learneryou're added now, so you should be able to check out non-anonymously now and get updates in real time
12:58.10learnercvs -d d_rossberg@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad co -P brlcad
12:58.43learneryou should be able to upload an ssh key to sf.net under your user profile page too, and you won't have to keep entering in a password
13:00.10learneryou also have commit access, if you need to fix something or want to work on something
13:01.45d_rossbergi'll test the account today; maybe i've to make some changes for the proxy server
13:04.09d_rossbergbut i'll wait with the commits
13:04.21d_rossbergnext week i'm on holiday
13:06.52learnerno problem either way
13:07.11d_rossbergthe kindergarten closes for a week, and my wife's work is more important then mine (at least at the moment)
13:17.35d_rossbergthe protocol for non-anonymously check out is ssh, isn't it?
13:39.18learneryes
13:39.39learnerahh, heh, so maybe a problem for you at work..
13:48.14d_rossbergyes, it's a very secure place here :-}
14:09.04brlcadyou can be very secure and still allow ssh, but it does require more diligence on tracking vulnerability reports
14:16.32d_rossbergwe have a department to do this
14:16.48d_rossbergi'll ask them, but after my holiday
14:17.16d_rossbergtill then i'll try it from home
17:33.31*** join/#brlcad clock- (~clock@148.34.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch)
17:33.49clock-Hello
17:38.52brlcadhello clock-
17:42.44clock-I have just installed brlcad as I am searching for a CAD for mechanics
17:42.46clock-for Ronja project
17:42.50clock-http://ronja.twibright.com
17:43.17clock-I have just installed it and would like to know if it's possible to get some example 3D file with easy instruction how to display it on screen.
17:43.32clock-I tried to convert from DXF but the dxf-g converter crashed on seemingly internal error.
17:44.24brlcadinteresting project
17:45.07clock-The tool has to be free software, because project philosophy requires it (it's User Controlled Technology, analogue of free software in hardware realm)
17:45.19brlcadsorry, was reading your site.. :)
17:45.37brlcadyeah, there are example files in the source distribution in the db/ directory
17:46.29clock-how became brlcad free software? Did it ARL itself or did someone write them and asked for all the sources and documents and published them?
17:46.43brlcadi'd be interested in getting your dxf to debug the problem
17:46.51brlcadperhaps you could post it to our bug tracker?
17:46.52clock-cool :)
17:48.12clock-Yeah, I got it.
17:48.18clock-But it's not published yet :(
17:48.29clock-It says like:
17:48.31clock-ERROR: INSERT references non-existent block (DICTIONARYVAR)
17:48.31clock-<PROTECTED>
17:48.31clock-*** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (!prev): 0x080807a8 ***
17:50.01brlcadheh, people have asked for brl-cad under the foia and gotten rejected over the years .. the foia doesn't apply to all codes
17:50.11brlcadARL supported us going open source
17:50.26brlcadit just took 5 years of my convincing
17:50.32clock-freedom of information act?
17:50.37brlcadyes
17:50.52clock-Heh, cool work! :)
17:51.36clock-brl-cad is surprisingly similar to GRASS GIS - wasn't it like this, too, under foia?
17:51.37brlcadi'm happy :)
17:51.54clock-I can't wait until I display the cool brlcad logo here:
17:52.09clock-http://ronja.twibright.com/web.php
17:52.21brlcadgrass is slightly similar.. they took the much easier legal route -- they just dropped it into the public domain
17:52.56brlcadthe user community (schools in europe, iirc) then picked it up and claimed copyright, assigned gpl, etc
17:53.48brlcadthat is a lot of logos :)
17:53.48clock-Ah, seems like I have reproduced the problem on a publicly available DXF!
17:54.17brlcadyeah, I've seen that exact error before.. just haven't found a good test case yet for debugging it
17:54.29brlcadmaybe even the same publicly available dxf.. :)
17:55.12clock-It's http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/hood.dxf
17:55.24clock-And the critical command was dxf-g hood.dxf hood.g
17:55.43clock-Is this report enough or would you like me to enter into bug tracking system?
17:56.13clock-Anyway, US army and governments seems to be pretty useful - DARPANET alias Internet, GRASS, BRLCAD,...
17:56.56brlcadI'd prefer the bug tracker just so the other devs know about it too, but I do have the file now if you don't feel like bothering with it
17:56.59brlcadthanks
17:58.08brlcadyeah, BRL-CAD is the only open source solid modeler at this point, so I'm hoping we can continue to pick up more interest and get more people involved with the project
17:59.21clock-I think Ronja could be a usable display case for BRLCAD. I got 91 installations worldwide:
17:59.42clock-http://ronja.twibright.com/installations.php
18:00.08clock-As BRLCAD was released just recently (half a year ago?), I expect to be one of the first project to adopt it, if it happens.
18:00.18clock-Do you think BRLCAD is usable for a project like this?
18:00.39clock-I actually wanted to emply it about 3 months ago, but didn't have time to investigaste :)
18:02.43brlcadBRL-CAD's been around/released for about 20 years.. distributed in source code form even (albeit complicated process to get it)..  it's been open source since December 21
18:03.03brlcadwhat did you have in mind for how BRL-CAD would be usable?
18:03.49clock-If the bug level is low enough to not present obstacle in work.
18:04.25clock-The constant mentions about army, test grounds, report forms and ballistic research laboratory are simply cool.
18:05.07clock-That's like "Ronja is now going to be real star wars. Please send billions of dollars in gifts, we are going to make a reeeeaaaaal good connectivity party ;-) "
18:05.41brlcadthe bug level is very low for most everything that we have to deal with.. like I said, it's a code that's been evolving for a very long time -- very mature code/project
18:05.41clock-Survivability/Lethality. Even better, in context of (potentially laser) optical datalink ;-)
18:05.55clock-As old as I am :) 1979, too.
18:06.00brlcadthere is on-going development, though, so some areas will be more/less developed than others
18:06.22clock-The documentation seems to be written with real care - exceptional...
18:06.41clock-Oh - lessons about MGED - shit - cool :)
18:06.45brlcadbrl-cad wasn't designed for drafting needs (blueprints), so if that's specifically what you need, there might be better tools
18:07.09brlcadbut for actual modeling, and visualizations, brl-cad will do that quite nicely
18:07.14clock-DO you mean 2D blueprints with all those dimensions?
18:07.20clock-I am using QCAD for it.
18:07.47clock-Wish Linux kernel folks had the same approach to documentation as BRLCAD has...
18:11.55brlcadsorry, still reading your site.. hold on a sec.. :)
18:14.25clock-Found a bug in mged intro: Create -> Make solid doesn't exist. Should be Ellipsiond instead of Make solid probably.
18:15.44brlcad~change 703 CZK to USD
18:16.01clock-http://brlcad.org/build_CVS.html deadlinks to http://brlcad.org/index.html ("back to main page")
18:21.10brlcadquestions questions .. :)
18:21.24brlcadhow in the world is the response times on the photoreceptors that fast?
18:21.29brlcador are they really just that fast?
18:21.52clock-The response time of SFH203 photoreceptor is about 5ns.
18:22.14brlcadis it sending out data already encoded, like different frequencies are different values?
18:22.21clock-Fiber optics receptors for 10Gbps, 40Gbps etc. speed have it under 1ns.
18:22.52brlcadthat is just incredible
18:22.55clock-It's using basically the same baseband encoding as ordinary 10Mbps ethernet over twisted pair or coax.
18:23.11clock-Laser pointer diode can go with modulation rate up to say 1GHz.
18:23.21clock-This LED can go up to about 10 or 20 MHz.
18:23.27clock-Infra LED only to 10MHz.
18:24.01clock-I have entered the bug with hood.dxf
18:24.13brlcadokay, thanks
18:24.41brlcaddid you make that dxf in qcad?
18:25.07clock-yes in qcad
18:25.14brlcadas for the documentation bug, it's known/fixed already.. just not reposted to pdf
18:25.33brlcadas you found, it's just renamed/moved
18:27.00clock-I have entered therefore bug #1 and #3.
18:28.46brlcadheh, there's some other guys at work that are interested now too
18:28.53brlcadi'll have to show them the site later
18:32.05brlcadokay, so back to your original questions...  what was your questions? :)
18:33.11brlcadi think it could be of use, model the emitter, visualize each of the components individually in 3d
18:33.18clock-to load some model and display - but now I am making the radio according to tutorial.
18:33.33brlcadyou could even simulate the transmission properties as a custom raytrace application
18:33.52brlcadahh, yes.. you wanted to look at something quick
18:34.03clock-I want to make a 3D model how to mechanically assembly consoles etc. People get confused by descriptions like "take 3rd bolt from the right and put through rear hole of side adjacent to..."
18:35.03brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/havoc.g
18:35.16brlcadsave that file, and open it up with mged
18:35.29brlcadin mged, type: e havoc
18:35.39clock-May I run two instances of mged simultaneously?
18:35.43brlcadsure
18:35.47clock-HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
18:35.47clock-20:33:08 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
18:35.52brlcadah, hold on
18:36.13brlcadtry now
18:37.46clock-OK - loaded, blue view.
18:37.49clock-How do I display it?
18:38.30brlcade havoc
18:38.44brlcador if you're a mouse guy, go to Tools -> Geometry Browser
18:39.12brlcadand double-click the name "havoc"
18:39.14clock-Ah, helicopter :)
18:39.26clock-Is it possible to display with non-wire solid shapes?
18:40.35brlcadit is, couple ways
18:40.55brlcadin the command window, type: rt -F/dev/Xl
18:41.54brlcador go to File -> Raytrace
18:42.10brlcadand hit the raytrace button
18:43.50clock-hmmm... it's slowly raytracing :)
18:43.52brlcadmged isn't too friendly as a "discovery interface" .. fyi
18:44.09clock-Is it possible to select some medium detail solid view?
18:44.15brlcadmany call it "expert friendly" as there's lots of commands
18:44.18clock-yes - the same with GRASS.
18:44.37clock-is it using povray, or it's internal engine?
18:45.13brlcadheh, no povray is a dog at raytracing the same models
18:45.48brlcadBRL-CAD has one of the first raytracers ever written -- the first parallel one
18:46.15brlcadhighly optimized for solid model rendering for analyses
18:46.33brlcadlike signature analyses, multispectral imagery, penetration details, etc
18:47.51clock-what does mean that povray is dog? Imprecise? Or slow?
18:48.04brlcadslow and imprecise
18:48.17brlcadthey do have a nice global illumination model, though
18:49.26brlcadto answer your question, there is an experimental mode that will draw everything shaded/solid
18:49.38brlcadbut it's not recommended at all for something like havoc
18:51.09clock-I got the output image :) Nice :) Windows look like real glass :)
18:51.44brlcadand that's the simple defaults
18:51.55brlcadyou can get more realistic by turning on/up some options
18:52.05clock-So that is it possible to use brlcad like for simulation of glass lens illuminated with point source in infinity and looking at shape and colours of the focus blot?
18:53.15clock-Is it possible to have wireframe with hidden invisible edges?
18:53.25brlcadit is, though the computations to simulate that approach that of global illumination for proper caustics
18:53.32clock-Or at least wireframe with lines clipped and not removed when they don't fit the window?
18:54.10brlcadMisc -> Z Clipping
18:54.16brlcadturn that off
18:54.46brlcadbrl-cad's photon mapping will do the caustics fairly cheaply
18:54.51brlcadi'll see if I can find an example
18:56.20clock-Or at least wireframe with lines clipped and not removed when they don't fit the window?
18:56.23brlcadhere's some more geometry examples: http://ftp.brlcad.org/db/
18:57.34clock-I turned off the Z clipping and it still shows hidden edges - however something has changed.
18:58.04brlcadahh, i see what you mean now i think
18:58.10brlcadhiding the back facing lines
18:58.49brlcadno, there's not really a mode for that -- if you turn on depth queing, it should get better.. stuff in the front is brighter, stuff behind will be darker
18:59.07brlcadMisc -> Depth Cueing
18:59.20clock-it's impressive anyway.
18:59.37brlcadthere are "shift grips" that might feel more familiar to you
18:59.51brlcadlike control+mouse drag
19:00.01brlcadand shift+mouse drag
19:00.18brlcadand control+shift+mouse drag .. etc
19:01.55brlcadmged is only 1 of about 400 apps that comprise brl-cad, although mged is one of the largest and few that have a gui
19:04.23*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (~nospam@mnch-d9b86e2b.pool.mediaWays.net)
19:06.33clock-is there a library of steel sections like U, I etc.?
19:09.08clock-The standard views are cool :)
19:12.11d_rossbergbrlcad: ssh-checkout works from my home
19:12.47brlcadclock-: not that I can share..
19:13.14brlcadthere is probably a lot of really much more impressive stuff that cannot be shared. ;)
19:15.02clock-brlcad: are you working in arl/brl?
19:16.00brlcadclock-: http://db.brlcad.org/tmp/moss.png  and   http://db.brlcad.org/tmp/moss_edge.png  the latter is "rtedge"
19:17.58brlcadd_rossberg: good to hear
19:19.07d_rossbergbut it's not very fast, only ISDN
19:20.47brlcadit's not very fast right now regardless with all the cvs work they've been doing
19:20.56clock-rtedge will be good for technical drawings of assembly, I think.
19:20.58brlcadadding -z9 to the checkout/update line should speed it up
19:21.06clock-Is it possible to generate it into vector format, or only raster?
19:21.57d_rossbergbrlcad: this is exactly my setting :-)
19:22.13brlcadi know rtedge only does raster, it's visualizes geometry edges via raytracing
19:22.36clock-aha
19:22.52brlcadI vaguely recall mged having something like that experimental a long time ago, but I "don't think so"
19:24.18brlcadd_rossberg: heh
19:26.32clock-Edit -> Scale doesn't exist - where is it?
19:26.42clock-Used in mged tutorial lesson 9
19:27.25brlcadthe menu changes as you progress up through the steps
19:27.37brlcadone of the earlier steps would have been to select the geometry for editing
19:28.16brlcadthere's a solid/primitive edit mode and a matrix edit mode depending on what you're editing and how
19:48.50clock-hm, done a ball in glass box :)
19:49.06brlcadhehe
19:51.22brlcadit takes patience at first, but then one can really get efficient with it once you know the core commands/menus/etc
19:51.35brlcadthe expert modelers are pretty darn impressive at their speed
19:53.24clock-is it possible to make constraints?
19:53.42clock-Like two boxes sharing facet, two cylinders sharing an axe
19:53.51clock-or putting something into intersection of something else?
19:53.57clock-axe -> axis
19:56.08d_rossbergbrlcad: I'm done: 50 min
19:56.44clock-brlcad: thanks, have to go, have a nice time, goodbye
20:35.10brlcadheh
20:55.10CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pro-engineer/Makefile.am: typo in the am var for echo
21:21.44CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pro-engineer/mk.in: cannot use a brl-cad header without either installing first or defining HAVE_CONFIG_H, so do the latter
21:34.52*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
21:34.52*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is finally now posted (20050511)
22:24.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/nightly.sh: converted back to anonymous checkout
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050513

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050513

01:19.34Twingysean, you watch that dual photography video yet?
01:31.16learnernope
05:48.52narniabison is giving me fits.
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12:17.58archivisthmm dependency hell, which java should I download
13:15.06PrezKennedyjava 1.1!!
13:16.37archivisteh suns up to 1.4.2 now
13:20.39PrezKennedyactually isnt that 1.5 now?
13:21.15PrezKennedyhmm... thats a sight i dont see too often
13:23.07PrezKennedyi need a vacation... seriously
13:25.57archivisti dont have an outside window for such niceties
13:26.10PrezKennedythat was inside the apartment actually...
13:37.56learnerarchivist, you don't need java for brl-cad
13:39.18archivistso what was ./configure complaining about
13:40.31learnerit can use it if you have it for building a raytrace server for java, but it's not required and should be disabled by default
13:41.32archivistit dies when it cant find it
13:43.08learnerwhat's your configure line?
13:43.33archivisti cant tell you as the box is 7 miles away
13:44.01archivisti havt added or changed anything
13:44.16archivist<PROTECTED>
13:45.06learneryou mean to say that you _just_ ran "./configure" with no options?
13:45.14archivistyes
13:46.19learnerthat shouldn't be possible unless you are working off of anonymous cvs and got some intermediate update
13:46.38archivistare well could be
13:48.44archivistjust started another checkout
13:49.11archivistoooo done already
13:49.45archivistcant try it till i get home ( no internet there)
13:50.13learnerwhich OS?
13:50.42archivistdebian woody on an alpha
13:51.53archivistwhich has crap networking, so updates and changes are a pain
13:53.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: clean up java checks so that they work on os x automatic
13:54.15archivisteh bugger got to wait for cvs->anon now
13:54.45learneryou shouldn't need that change -- it was os x specific
13:57.14archivistthere are times I think I should bring the box here for updates but its a heavy lump
13:58.19learnerusb/firewire/serial keychain disks could help
13:59.11archivistno usb
16:17.22*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
16:18.54polyspinUgh! compile error on mac: line 6737 of raytrace.h indicates error before off_t?
16:22.12polyspinhappens when compiling db5_bin.c
16:34.24polyspinIt looks like raytrace.h now relies on sys/stat.h
19:09.06narniaokay, there are a fair number of macos-x users here so i figure the following questions may be asked: 0) anyone have experience with the mac-mini? if so how would you rate it? 1) anyone have experience with macos-x 'tiger'? is it worth upgrading from panther to tiger?
19:50.11noybbeen a mac user with the latest os since 1990, but I didn't see the need to upgrade to 10.4.  None of my friends have a mini, neither have I.
19:50.24noyb10.3.9 is where I'm at 'til something breaks.
19:52.38noybIf Apple wants to make *real* money...  Act like Microsoft and make stuff break for no reason and put the upgrade-carrot out in front to "fix" things...
20:29.53*** join/#brlcad archivistAshby (~archivist@host213-123-228-55.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
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22:39.45*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050514

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050514

00:04.16*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
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16:09.41learnermornin'
16:43.41polyspinGood afternoon
16:43.57polyspinHaving build problems on both panther and tiger.
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16:52.52polyspinTiger shows that raytrace.h is dependent on sys/types.h
16:52.59polyspinTcl/Tk not building on Panther
16:55.09learnerahh, that would be the off_t
16:55.30learneradded rt_mk_binunif() for creating binunif's in libwdb
16:56.23learnerthe off_t was related to another bug where off_t was a 64bit type, and it was getting clamped to a 32bit type
16:59.33learneri did a full 10.4 build just a week ago or so
17:00.02learnerwhat's it actually complaining about?
17:13.08learnerconverting to a non-off_t type, though probably will need some better edge tests in rt_mk_binunif for reading binunif's files that are larger than long bytes
17:22.50learnerfixed, testing
17:29.25CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/binary_obj.c): replace the off_t with a long -- this requires a check to make sure the data being created is actually not too big since an off_t is potentially a 64bit type.
17:30.48learnerthat will let us still use files larger than long bytes, but you just still can't create a binunif larger than long types
17:34.12learnerthis sucker is getting harder to maintain with all the timing logic being added
19:19.20CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: if the frame actually fails for some reason, return a non-zero value instead of 0 (this prevents returning zero when output file gives permission denied)
19:23.42*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
19:24.00polyspinAnyone awake?
19:24.30learnernope
19:25.07polyspinI've got a Panther system where none of the past 3 releases builds clean.
19:25.31polyspinI suspect the dev tools are out of date, but I'm not sure how to do the update.
19:25.52learnereh, the build error can't be that bad
19:26.05learneri build just a week or so ago
19:26.17polyspinXcode reports 1.5 alpha on this machine.
19:26.23polyspinHow do I upgrade xcode?
19:26.33learnerwhat does gcc_select say?
19:27.04polyspingcc version 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1660)
19:27.20learnerthat should work just fine then
19:27.23polyspinThe fink website indicates 1.5 had some bugs.
19:27.55learnerbugs in xcode itself of with gcc/libc/headers ?  brl-cad only cares about the later
19:28.17learnerwhat's the build error?
19:28.51polyspinItkStubLib.c:116: error: request for member `hooks' in something not a structure or union
19:28.55learnerxtools updates are on the adc website
19:29.15learnerwow, failed inside our build of itk
19:29.22polyspinsafari keeps wanting to log me in as "arl" to adc
19:29.28learnersounds like a missing header
19:30.19polyspinGreat googly moogly!  X is missing!
19:30.40learnerahh
19:30.43polyspinX11/include only has a bitmaps directory
19:30.47learnerthat'd do it :)
19:31.01learnerthe X11 dev kit is a separate install only available on the dev cd
19:32.17learnerhave it here http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/
19:32.24learnerX11SDK
19:32.45polyspinfetching
19:33.38polyspinOn windows this would have meant re-installing the os ;-)
19:33.45learnerbtw the adc "arl" account was the account I made when we had the select membership
19:35.27polyspinI know.  I just didn't remember the password or even if it had expired.
19:35.48learnerthe adc account doesn't expire, but the select membership did
19:36.16learnersee pm
19:36.34polyspinBTW, on Tiger, raytrace.h now seems to depend on sys/types.h for off_t
19:36.48learneryep
19:36.54learneri changed that just earlier
19:37.06polyspinWasn't in there this morning ;-)
19:37.21learnerthe off_t was related to another bug where off_t was a 64bit type, and it was getting clamped to a 32bit type
19:37.54learner13:29:26:      CIA-3: BRL-CAD: 3brlcad * 0brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/binary_obj.c): replace the off_t with a long -- this requires a check to make sure the data being created is actually not too big since an off_t is potentially a 64bit type.
19:38.25polyspinI remembered that.  Just couldn't remember the fix.
19:39.20polyspinDid we really use the select membership?
19:39.43polyspinIt was something like $500 if I recall
19:40.05learnerthe fix was basically to make sure all the places we did a stat didn't assume the file size to be a 32bit type (like passing that size to bu_malloc without casting)
19:40.25learneryes, we used it a fair bit
19:41.10polyspinGive me some specifics and we'll put in a buy to renew it.
19:41.12learner500 got us prereleased OS updates, on-line training, software code examples, and beta tests of their new software
19:41.24learnerwe didn't use the hardware discount, though it's a wash with the other discounts possible
19:42.35learnerthe on-line training was one of the best things we could have used better.. only sat in on a couple webcasted lectures out of about a dozen "tickets" we could have used
19:43.30polyspinThink Glenn would use it too?  I might be able to argue it's a "corp" investment
19:45.09learneri did mention it to him
19:47.56polyspinBuilding smoothly now that Panther has X.  Thx
19:49.46polyspinGrrr.  Now if_ogl.c isn't compiling
19:49.50polyspinYes
19:50.01learnerk  :)
19:50.08learnererror?
19:50.33polyspinif_ogl.c:89: error: parse error before "XEvent"
19:50.57learnerahh
19:51.03learnercached configure results
19:51.27learnerrm -rf *cache*
19:51.32polyspinmake distclean now
19:51.51learnerack.. just need to rerun configure without cache .. :)
19:52.35learnerrunning autogen.sh again would have fixed it to since it invalidates the cache
19:53.51learnerbasically it ended up with a brlcad_config.h that didn't have HAVE_X11_XLIB_H defined, so no header -- so XEvent is unknown
19:54.38learnersince you didn't have X11/Xlib.h when you ran configure and it has no idea that you installed new system headers
19:55.12*** join/#brlcad polyspin (~polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
19:55.44polyspinI was just about to say nice things about snak5.0 being released when it seg-faulted on me ;-)
19:56.38polyspinKnow anyplace I can get new batteries for the original Titanium?  Mine holds a charge for about 15min these days
19:58.09learnerhttp://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail~dpno~341565.asp
19:58.39learnerhttp://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=powerbook+battery&NavID_Search=false&submit1.x=0&submit1.y=0&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on
19:59.43learnerfor 10 bucks more, you can get one from apple
19:59.55learnermight be a discount buying direct
20:01.08learnerfrom the price on the new powerbook laptop batteries, though, I doubt it
20:07.16learnerprobably have to call for it
20:08.34polyspinMany thanks for the help.
20:08.43learnernp
20:37.27*** join/#brlcad clock- (clock@twin.jikos.cz)
20:37.45clock-hello
21:45.48*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (~Matthew@130.85.253.237)
21:46.49learnerclock-: howdy
21:48.57clock-i'm going to sleep :(
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050515

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050515

01:45.41*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
02:00.06narniafyi. johann is going down for maintenance. his cpu fan is flakey and he gets a new dvd-rom drive. bbl
03:48.11*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
04:25.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh:
04:25.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: refactor the benchmarks into a functional form to ensure consistency across all
04:25.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: the tests as the testing becomes more complicated (e.g. for adding
04:25.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: variance/deviation checks and superscaling). this should be posix shell
04:25.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: compliant, hopefully most all platform /bin/sh these days are minimally
04:25.38CIA-3BRL-CAD: compliant too. function form happens to shave a couple hundred lines off the
04:25.40CIA-3BRL-CAD: file too.. ;)
04:27.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: oh yeah, added DEBUG flag on that last change too that will output extra run-time information for testing/debugging/development
04:32.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: comment on the different allocation choice
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05:35.36cad618would anyone be able to walk me through an install on a linux machine
06:09.41popcornsure
06:10.00popcorncad618: binary or source?
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18:43.42*** join/#brlcad clock- (clock@twin.jikos.cz)
18:45.08ewilhelm__brlcad, I'm curious about your plan for these other formats
18:45.34ewilhelm__is the goal mostly import or export or both?
18:48.05ewilhelm__of the ones you mentioned (.pov, .bzw, .3ds, .nff, and .obj) I'm only somewhat familier with .3ds, but aren't these all polygons?
18:48.32ewilhelm__(ok, polygons and textures right?)
18:49.55ewilhelm__learner, anybody home?
18:50.13learnerboth
18:50.36learnermany of them are only polygons or even just triangles
18:50.42learnerlike our existing stl converter
18:51.03learneror the vrml converter
18:51.35learnertriangles/polygons will work for import/export, they're just not preferred much of the time
18:51.42ewilhelm__I'm gearing up to add polygons to dxf2rhizopod in the near future, so I was curious whether it would be better in the long run to just do a rhizopod2g g2rhizopod setup
18:52.15ewilhelm__how much would BRLCAD be able to support materials (e.g. do you need those to come in/out?)
18:52.51learnerdepends by what you mean by materials, brl-cad has a couple ways to describe them
18:53.08learnerthe main difference is whether it's a visual material or a physical material
18:53.13ewilhelm__rhizopod has colors, layers, and styles in the spec, but not materials (I guess named materials)
18:53.21learnermost only do the prior, where we mostly only care about the latter
18:53.33learnerwe do both, though
18:54.03learnerthere isn't support for layers directly, though you can add just about anything as an attribute
18:54.08learnersame goes for styles
18:54.13ewilhelm__I've actually been planning on these formats going into the next-generation (sturgeon or something) format
18:54.34learnerthere is, of course, support for color, shader types, material ids
18:54.51clock-hi
18:54.55learnerhowdy clock-
18:55.18ewilhelm__but that would have a lot in common with rhizopod (still YAML) so adding materials later wouldn't require too much extra work (mostly just renaming the tools :-)
18:55.33clock-learner: my learning with brlcad goes pretty well:
18:55.36clock-http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
18:55.58clock-However I can't rotate an object using commandline :(
18:56.08learnerewilhelm__, to answer your question, yes probably a rhizopod2g etc will be best in the long run since it won't necessitate a decimation of primitive types and/or a loss of content through the dxf converter
18:56.10clock-I want to rotate bolt head by 90 degrees - swap axes
18:56.21clock-learner: and what about you? :)
18:56.48clock-I have discovered that Mike Muuss also written the ping program :)
18:56.54learnerheh, my learning is a never ending task ;)
18:57.44learneryes he did
18:57.53clock-I tried qorot in edit ('sed') mode and it writes:
18:58.03ewilhelm__learner, ok.  If someone shows up wanting to write converters for these formats, please point them my way.
18:58.06learneralso ttcp, and several aspects of the ever popular tcp stack
18:58.19learnerewilhelm__, will do
18:58.35clock-mged> qorot 0 0 0 0 0 1 90
18:58.35clock-Error: Unable to do <Object Rotation> from SOL EDIT state.
18:59.06clock-Does qorot work for you?
18:59.09learnerclock-, there are two types of edit states, solid edit and matrix edit
18:59.23clock-learner: which command do I use to enter matrix edit?
18:59.32learnersolid edit implies you'red editing an individual primitive
18:59.38clock-learner: matrix edit edits the transformation matrix?
18:59.49learnermatrix edit is for grouped changes like translations, scalings, rotations, etc
18:59.55learnerclock-, yes
19:00.06clock-learner: Can I matrix edit a region?
19:00.11learneryou sure can
19:00.29learneryou can matrix edit pretty much any geometry
19:00.59learnerif you actually wanted to rotate in soledit state, try the rot command
19:01.07clock-Heh, cool, screw head rotated :)
19:01.38learnerwow, you are making progress :)
19:01.44clock-I did a screw hex head by computing linear algebra on paper and then entering coefficients.
19:01.45learnerthat's usually a tricky task for most to grasp :)
19:02.00clock-However is it possible to make it simpler by using the 6-fold rotastional symmery?
19:02.33learneryes, the pattern tool could have helped
19:02.58learnercould have started with a cylinder, for example, and subtracted arb8's using the pattern tool
19:03.06clock-Heh rot says "rotate the view" - shouldn't it say "or object in solid edit state"?
19:03.46clock-I can't imagine how fast it's the work going to be when I learn these tricks.
19:04.01clock-O have been editing with very limited command knowledge and it already goes pretty fast.
19:04.05learnerthe pattern tool is a pain to use sometimes since it tries to cover a slew of different pattern types in one single interface, but it is covered in the principles of effectively modeling guide (book that comes after the intro to mged)
19:04.23clock-Volume III?
19:04.47learneryes
19:06.11clock-BRL-CAD is really awesome. 25 years of U. S. Army development for free..
19:06.17clock-26 actually.
19:06.23clock-It's exactly as old as I am :)
19:06.44learner:)
19:06.45clock-Does anyone know which day Mike Muuss displayed his M1 Abrams prototype predecessor on the screen?
19:06.54learnerahh, my bad, you're right.. rot is view only
19:07.03learnertoo many commands :)
19:07.05clock-But rot rotates the head.
19:07.21clock-rot works. Only the label doesn't say it works for rotating in sed mode too.
19:07.30clock-What's equivalent of 'sed' for matrix mode?
19:07.36learnerred
19:07.38learner;)
19:07.59learnernot quite equiv.. but close
19:08.03clock-"edit a group or region using a text editor"
19:08.12clock-it doesn't say it can be used on solids, too :)
19:08.40learneryou do know the "p" command, yes?
19:09.06clock-p - set parameters. What parameters?
19:09.12learnerif you are in a rotate solid edit state, for example, p becomes rot
19:09.24learnerparameters for whatever state you are in
19:09.52learnerworks for both solid edit and matrix edit states, but depends exactly on what you are doing
19:10.58learnere.g. select a primitive for solid edit mode, select move or rotate and enter p 10 0 0 and it'll either translate 10 units or rotate 10 degrees along X
19:11.59learneri don't recall if the book covers it, but you can type reject, accept, etc as commands instead of going to the menu
19:14.26clock-yes that what I use
19:15.08clock-the trying-to-hit-a-button-and-then-reversing-the-consequences-of-hitting-the-wrong-one style of work with the computer is slower for me than typing a couple of characters on the commandline.
19:15.20learnerif you want to save the list of commands to a file for easy searching, you can using classic mode
19:15.32learnermged -c 2> help.txt <<EOF
19:15.33learnerhelp
19:15.34learnerEOF
19:16.16clock-what's the difference between group and combination?
19:17.12learnera group is pretty much a short-hand that is akin to an assembly in other apps
19:17.21learnerit's basically a union of the objects you specify
19:17.27clock-Let's say I have a complicated holder
19:17.40clock-and want to copy the holder and put it 300mm aside.
19:17.42clock-How do I do it?
19:17.46clock-though the group?
19:17.54learnerwhereas a combination can be any boolean and might be used as part of a region
19:18.11learnerokay, with that example
19:18.23learnerdo you want an independant copy, or a dependant copy?
19:18.39learneri.e. if you edit one holder, do both update or does only one?
19:18.39*** part/#brlcad Pimpi (~frank@p5481B0ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:19.24clock-Dependent copy
19:19.32clock-It know both? Really cool :)
19:19.35learnerif you don't know/care, then cp is probably sufficient, and you apply the translation matrix to the copy
19:19.38clock-Why are people using AutoCad at all? :)
19:19.54clock-I had two heads on bolts
19:20.01clock-and now want to copy them so they become the nuts.
19:20.09clock-So I did g heads head8a.s head8b.s
19:20.15learnerautocad is much better than we are at 2d drafting
19:20.17clock-and cp heads nuts
19:20.23clock-but now I can't matrix edit nuts.
19:20.34clock-red doesn't allow me and matrix edit menu doesn't show nuts, too.
19:20.45clock-How do I matrix edit them to do "tra 0 30 0"?
19:21.06clock-Who cares about 2D drafting? I am using free software qcad for 2D drafting already :)
19:22.04learnerhold on.. trying to grasp what you just said :)
19:22.13clock-yeah - red nuts shows an editor (vim) where I can add and remove objects, but doesn't go into the matrix edit state.
19:22.44learnerit uses whatever EDITOR is set to (default id ed, eek)
19:23.49clock-I want matrix edit nuts (group) -- how do I invoke the mode?
19:25.17learnerahh, ted was what I was trying to remember earlier too
19:25.33learnerthat won't help you with this, though
19:25.51learnerso you have head8[ab].s .. those are primitives yes?
19:26.11learneryou grouped them together into heads
19:26.26learnerand then made a copy of the that group called nuts
19:27.12clock-yeas primitives arbn with 8 planes
19:27.23clock-yes nuts group
19:27.55clock-hehe - there is some hidden level in matrix selection :)
19:28.10clock-If I click nuts/head8a.s, it goes to level 2, where I can select nuts :)
19:28.25clock-So the problem is solved :)
19:28.44learneryou can only matrix edit the things that you're looking at -- you couldn't matrix edit nuts because it wasn't being displayed
19:28.45clock-Also once one my .g file fucked up that in the primitive selection menu, everything was twice.
19:29.01clock-When I did "s head1.s" it said that error, head1.s is multiply referenced.
19:29.14clock-How do I clear this condition? Exiting and restarting program didn't help.
19:29.22clock-I am not aware about doing anything strange.
19:29.25learnerthat's not a fatal error -- it's quite true
19:29.32learnerit's referenced from nuts and heads
19:29.48learnerthat was from the sed command, I presume?
19:29.58learnerah, yes.. "s"
19:30.16learneryou have to feed it the full path for multiply referenced objects
19:30.28learnersed /nuts/head8a.s for example
19:31.12clock-But the whole content of the file was listed twice
19:31.38clock-it was not nuts and heads - it was before, when I didn't yet know I can do groups.
19:32.22learnerit will let you create invalid states, it can be rather unforgiving to new users
19:33.06clock-I could dump it to ascii, remove half of the file and then reimport ;-)
19:33.12learnerlike if you do a red and enter invalid geometry dimensions, it can be very hard to recover/correct it
19:33.26learner"keep" command will do that in binary
20:01.24clock-Is it possible to set the "V (0, -7, 32)" of tgc (truncated general cone) numerically from commandline without deleting the cylinder and creating it again with in rcc?
20:32.35learnerclock-, yes -- tra command (translate)
20:32.57learnersed tgc
20:33.03learnertra 100 0 0
20:33.11learneraccept
20:36.43learneror use ted, but you have to be very careful that you don't enter invalid geometry (best to use tra/rot/sca)
21:16.43clock-Fruits of your help:
21:16.45clock-http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
21:17.14clock-(the three last boxes of total 5 on the page)
21:18.38clock-Thanks for help, end of today's fun, going to sleep :)
21:18.40clock-\bye
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050516

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050516

00:07.43CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: increase the number of rays exponentially if we are considerably faster that the minimum TIMEFRAME required, add the beginnings of deviation and max timeframe checks.
00:14.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: keep up with the times, readjust the character padding from the frame number and elapsed to the pixel count and rate. output line still fits exactly onto an 80 character line as before.
01:15.03*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
01:15.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is finally now posted (20050511)
01:32.10CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c:
01:32.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: Fixed bug in DIMENSION entity (was trying to do an insert where there was none)
01:32.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: Note that dimensions are not yet handled
01:34.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/elapsed.sh:
01:34.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: if the script is passed a single number value, then treat it as the complement
01:34.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: to the --seconds mode. that single number will be presumed to be an elapsed
01:34.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: number of seconds that the caller wants to have pretty-printed. add header
01:34.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: documentation describing these two new modes.
01:37.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: output time estimates and a time summary before and after the tests are run
02:05.23CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Install.html: warn users that these install instructions are very old. not removing yet as there's good information included that needs to migrate to other locations/documents.
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04:09.51brlcadhmm
04:10.21brlcadfreenode's being screwy
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06:25.51bwianI downloaded the new BRL CAD from sourceforge Yesterday and was just wondering, how do I set it up in Suse 9.X
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12:07.24*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is finally now posted (20050511)
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12:14.57bwiancan someone help me with brl cad setup
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13:12.04Twingyreporting for duty
16:10.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh:
16:10.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: add variance/deviation checks to the benchmarks so that after we reach a minimum
16:10.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: timeframe per run, it may continue rendereing extra frames until the numbers on
16:10.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: the performance results of the last run are within some deviation percentage of
16:10.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: the average previous N frames. initial testing shows that this results in a
16:10.23CIA-3BRL-CAD: MUCH more stable/repeatable rtfm than before.
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17:13.17clock-hi
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18:10.57*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is finally now posted (20050511)
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19:05.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh:
19:05.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: document the new MAXTIME, DEVIATION, and AVERAGE options that lets users set a
19:05.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: maximum amount of ttime per test, set a minimum deviation percentage to consider
19:05.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: the results stable, and an average number of prior raytraces to use for the
19:05.42CIA-3BRL-CAD: deviation population.
19:07.34CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added deviation stability checks to benchmark suite
19:15.15*** topic/#brlcad by learner -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
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19:42.53*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
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20:40.04*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
21:02.22*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
21:02.22*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
22:13.40learnerhello noyb
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23:10.07*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
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23:39.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: more error checking to prevent bad behavior if a bad RT is provided, also fix timing when an rtfm isn't found, and finally, report the version information of RT before we start and VGR average when we're done
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050517

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050517

02:22.26CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Previous fix was a bit too drastic
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02:51.52*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
03:27.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh:
03:27.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: make sure the rtfms being computed and tested on the fly are indeed integer.
03:27.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: output a more informative summary including an explanation of the results and
03:27.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: approximated past VGR results for comparison. if this doesn't look like an
03:27.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: optimized build, say something too.
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03:30.56CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed dimension conversion bug in dxf-g (fixes sf bug 1200883)
04:09.17CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: stick to portable awk (solaris threw a tantrum). makes it more consistent and less quote-tricky too.
05:48.47CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: er, optimized is > 0
06:02.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: the PRODUCTION switch no longer exists, check for any of the run-time debug defines
06:24.54CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: See if this looks like a run-time disabled build
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12:59.03*** join/#brlcad hcad (~otted@81-174-3-81.f5.ngi.it)
12:59.10hcadhello
13:00.14hcadi've a question about the installation of the software
13:00.22hcadis this the right place where i can ask?
13:02.12archivistit is, just ask and lurk till someone answers
13:02.52hcadokay
13:03.45hcadi cant' find a way to _install_
13:03.50hcadi've both macos and linux
13:03.57hcadbut if i extract archive
13:04.15hcadi can't find an install script
13:04.20hcador a make path
13:04.30hcadand i don't know how to lunch sw
13:07.20archivisthave you read the readme and then install
13:09.24hcadi've read readme file
13:09.34hcadbut it says about X11, not more
13:09.50hcadi'm a correct version of X11
13:09.56hcadi've a correct version of X11
13:10.14hcadbut what i should do? nor make, nor configure, what?
13:18.09archivistI assume you have downloaded binaries (i downloaded source from cvs) so not sure
13:19.21hcadi got source and you compiled it?
13:21.28archivistif you get source from cvs then README and INSTALL tell you to run autogen.sh first
13:22.04hcadmmmmnn okay
13:22.21hcadi can try with cvs
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14:23.42hcadthanks for the help
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22:47.50CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: improve the summary output, emphasize the actual results
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050518

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050518

00:28.36learner~last http
00:28.49learner~logs
00:28.50ibotapt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly"
01:30.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added summary and explanation of benchmark results
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05:03.29CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: try a lot harder to allow running the benchmark before brl-cad is even compiled (we just need an rt from somewhere). compile pixcmp and asc2g if we have to, and try to generate the .g databases if they don't exist.
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12:41.41CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: doesn't need string.h or common.h yet
15:58.46CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/ (Makefile.am generic/Makefile.am): search the mac and windows directories too since generic/default.h might include a header from there
16:46.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/unix/Makefile.am: unix includes generic too
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22:55.40cad360hey, is there a way to run "batch" files through mged?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050519

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050519

03:04.46TwingyO.O
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23:20.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * 10brlcad/README: Fixed some typos.
23:24.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: Fixed typo.
23:49.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * 10brlcad/HACKING: Fixed some typos.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050520

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050520

00:06.38CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * 10brlcad/NEWS: Fixed some typos.
00:12.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * 10brlcad/TODO: Fixed some typos.
00:16.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03g2asc * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed various typos in top level documents
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14:29.46narniabrlcad, have you had any time on the document scanner to create pdfs from the numerous trees you were sent?
14:30.19narniabrlcad, also did you ever contact pdes concerning membership?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050521

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050521

02:10.47narniajohann is going down for maintenance.
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09:37.33clock-hi
16:16.08brlcadnarnia, no and yes with no response yet
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050522

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09:19.38clock-hi
14:51.34learnerheh
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23:35.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved installation instructions
23:50.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: refer to the new INSTALL file instructions for more detials
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050523

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050523

03:00.29*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
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12:20.32archivisthmm cvs migration to anonymous cvs is slow :( I thought Sourceforge was going to speed things up!
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14:36.52learnerarchivist: how slow is slow?
14:41.41archivistwell that was 00:52 to 13:15 when i started cvs checkout (they used to state 24 hrs)
14:44.33learnerbut do you mean the checkout is slow, or the syncronization with non-anon takes too long?
14:45.33learneranon used to be 24 hours, now it's at a 5 hour syncronization window
14:46.01learnersupposed to drop that to a 0 hour window within a few months
14:46.22learnerbut hasn't happened yet, they'll be lucky if the new stats system goes on-line today
14:48.22learnerarchivist: make a couple patches and that can easily be turned into non-anonymous for you ;)
14:52.17archivistwell its more than 12 hrs, as for making patches erm let me get used to it first
14:53.28archivistpresumably CIA-5 notes are "nearly real time"?
14:54.36learneryeah, pretty much -- mainly wait for an e-mail delivery
14:56.58archivistsourceforge never was quick!
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15:19.07learnertheir non-anonymous actually works quite well 99% of the time
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21:58.42archivisty
22:16.01learnerhello knoppix_
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050524

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050525

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050526

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050527

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050528

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050528

02:10.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: don't really need to recommend that debug be disabled
02:15.20CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (84 files in 16 dirs): convert WIN32 define checks to _WIN32 since the latter is one of the defaults provided by MSVC whereas the prior is not. remove some of them related to header inclusions using HAVE_ defines instead.
02:21.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: minor rewording on trackers
06:51.08CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: include more directory examples and mention the _WIN32 config_win.h
06:53.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: variance/deviation checks were added to the benchmarks
07:33.08CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libbu whereis support for relocatable mged/bwish and locating resources at run-time. benchmarks utilize an error metric now and will keep going towards improving to beneath some error threshold.
07:35.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: install benchmark suite and example geometry
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17:02.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: fix capture of output when rt crashes so that it includes the shell error message in the log too
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050529

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10:57.58mumptaihi
14:11.27learnerhi mumptai
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050530

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050530

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04:14.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: prevent against a curious crash where count was set but avp was null. probably a bug elsewhere, but why not check.
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20:13.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for sys/sysctl.h header and getenv and sysctl functions
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050531

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21:40.26starseekerAnybody around?
21:56.42brlcadyep
21:56.47brlcadhowdy starseeker
21:56.52starseekerHowdy!
21:57.03brlcadhow goes it?
21:57.04starseekerlooks like someone was able to fix the gentoo ebuild - trying it out nwo
21:57.06starseekerer now
21:57.09starseekergood!
21:57.10brlcadahh, really
21:57.13brlcadcool
21:57.27starseekerMight want to switch the readme credits to that person...
21:57.30starseekerchecking name...
21:58.29brlcadyou're still my gentoo POC until I see another name in here :)
21:59.12starseekerI'll tell him to mosey on in :-)  Michal Slonina is the miracle worker
21:59.32starseekerJust for reference the discussion is at http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197
21:59.42starseekerCoool :-)
22:03.16brlcadnice, looks like he worked through several tcl/tk issues too
22:03.28brlcadi'll have to walk through that patch list
22:03.49brlcadwonder if I can merge them in before 7.2.6 ..
22:04.01starseekerYep.  Not sure if his diff is relevant to main brlcad tree or not?  Not to worry, it's quite normal for gentoo specific diffs to be maintained.
22:04.21brlcadit's always relevant ;)
22:04.33starseeker:-)
22:04.34brlcadif a system requires modifications, it's our policy to accommodate
22:05.22brlcadthere's rarely ever a situation where we can't accommodate easily enough, and often it's for the overall better even if it's only relevant to one or two platforms initially
22:05.49starseekerI'll post a note pointing him to this IRC channel - maybe we can get him to sign on :-)
22:06.03starseekerAnd/or anybody else following the bug
22:06.24brlcadquestion for you
22:06.28brlcadunder the DEPEND in the ebuild
22:06.29starseekershoot
22:06.36brlcadit lists >=dev-lang/tk-8.4
22:06.45brlcadthat means to use a system tk?
22:06.57starseekerHmm.  Normally, yes
22:07.09starseekeror rather, if this ebuild is installed
22:07.10brlcadodd.. that won't work
22:07.16starseekerit will also install tk on that system
22:07.26starseekerwhether it actually uses it is another question
22:07.28starseekerit may not
22:07.45brlcadahh, he just says it's dependant (though it actually isn't) .. doesn't use that later one
22:08.06starseekerin the past, I have had conflicts between system tk libs and brlcad's - I'm hoping the /usr/lib/brlcad stuff will fix that
22:08.28starseekerah - compile finished...
22:08.28brlcadour tk is actually modified, so we cannot use a system tk
22:08.32starseekerright.
22:08.40starseekerhard drive grinding...
22:08.48brlcadat least until someone presses the tcl guys to accept our mods
22:09.05starseekerI can add a "me too" to a petition
22:09.53starseekerDunno any of the tcl/tk guys myself
22:10.02starseekerer - Don't know
22:11.13starseekerShould I go ahead and mention the IRC channel in the bug report?  
22:11.53starseekerfingers crossed - old brlcad has been removed...
22:12.03starseekerlast time this happened tcl/tk didn't work...
22:13.11starseekeropps, NOW it's removing it
22:13.24starseekerme should read more carefully
22:14.46starseekeryep, there goes my system tcl/tk setup.  OK, reinstalling those...
22:15.13starseekeranybody remember what the other name conflicts were?
22:29.53brlcadhehe
22:30.13brlcadpossibly libbu, libbn, librt
22:30.52brlcadlibrt being an old deprecated system library in glibc I believe, libbn in openssl maybe? and libbu you probably didn't have ..
22:34.19brlcadother system libs that get installes are listed as disable items in the new ebuild
22:34.58brlcadurt, png, zlib
22:35.15brlcadand termlib in the latest 7.2.4, though the ebuild isn't updated with that yet
23:20.39starseekerOK, tcl/tk back on, emergeing glibc and openssl...
23:21.17brlcadyou might not have had a problem with those, I don't know
23:21.25brlcadI have no lidea what it actually conflicts with on a given gentoo box yet
23:21.43starseekercan't hurt - re-emerging on general principles is not a bad idea, really
23:21.52starseekerI need to totally rebuild this sucker
23:22.14starseekerbut I figured, as long as it's mildly foobared anyway, I'd give the new experimental ebuild a whirl :-)
23:22.46starseekerletsee - what's the name of the gui again?
23:23.34starseekerah mged
23:26.33brlcadyeah
23:26.39brlcadstarted up?
23:26.42starseekerHmm - no
23:26.50starseekerWhere do I paste output?
23:27.25brlcadhow long is it?
23:27.32starseeker~20 lines
23:27.35brlcadjust the first few lines should be enough
23:27.38starseekerldd output
23:27.46brlcadi know the whole "couldn't find itcl.tcl" deal
23:27.55starseekerthe mged startup is just mged: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.4.19
23:28.15starseeker<PROTECTED>
23:28.30brlcadahh
23:28.30starseekerldd reports several such problems
23:28.37brlcadpaste the ldd then
23:28.41starseekerrighto
23:28.46starseekerin the chat window?
23:28.52brlcadhere's fine
23:29.01starseeker<PROTECTED>
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23:30.10starseeker/usr/lib/libitcl3.3.so is present, but libitcl3.3.0  apparently is not
23:30.25brlcadthat's all the >dev lines from the DEPEND
23:30.33brlcadthat library name is wrong too
23:30.49brlcadshouldn't be libtcl8.4.19
23:30.52starseekerHmm.
23:30.59brlcadshould be libtcl8.4.so.19
23:31.08starseekerDid you see anything in the ebuild or diff that could cause something like this?
23:31.09brlcadsame for the others
23:31.22brlcadit was a build of 7.0.x right?
23:31.29starseekerNo, 7.2.4
23:31.35brlcadhrm, then no
23:31.55brlcadthat would normally be a libtool bug if it was a brl-cad build
23:32.04starseekerOh joy
23:32.07starseekerletsee...
23:32.26brlcaddo you still have the build tree?
23:32.28starseeker(GNU libtool) 1.5.18
23:32.31brlcaddid it build libitcl3.3.0 ?
23:32.44starseekeritcl is a separate package in gentoo
23:32.56starseekerthat's those last few posts on the bug
23:32.56brlcadyes, but did it build brl-cad distribution of it?
23:33.07starseekerno, it installed it to /usr/lib
23:33.29brlcadhmm?  how did it install it if it didn't build it? :)
23:33.30starseekerI think the brlcad build tree got erased, let me check
23:33.55starseekerthe itcl package installed it - I don't know if brlcad did anything at all with it.  Let me see if I can find out
23:33.58brlcadprobably should stop saying "it" and be more specific..
23:34.15starseekeroh, right.  Sorry
23:34.21starseekeritcl
23:34.22brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:34.31starseekerwell, both of us
23:35.03starseekerWell, it's got some itcl stuff in /usr/share/brlcad/include/brlcad/...
23:35.18brlcadthe --disable-itcl/itk/tcl options are not well tested since installing into /usr is still troublesome for other reasons
23:35.40brlcadyeah, those headers will get installed regardless, that's fine
23:36.13starseekerThe package does not report installing anything that looks like an itcl lib
23:36.21starseekerbrlcad package
23:36.29brlcadcan you force brl-cad to install again and capture the entire configure/build output?
23:36.39starseekerYes, I think so
23:37.00brlcademerge ...  > file.log 2>&1
23:37.52starseekerOkie doke...
23:39.22starseekerunderway...  should be done configuring in a moment...
23:39.30starseekerwhere do I post this?   it will be long
23:39.44brlcade-mail it to me if you would
23:39.49starseekerOK.
23:40.02brlcadhave my address?
23:40.08starseekerNot offhand
23:40.38brlcadthanks for working on it again
23:40.50starseekernot at all :-)
23:41.01starseekerI needed a break from the Maxima units package
23:41.47starseekerOK, got it - let me chop off the non config part...
23:42.09brlcadsend the whole thing if you like, that's fine
23:42.26starseekerOK, will do... on it's way via kmail
23:43.31starseekerSent.
23:47.13starseekerDingnabbit, he put the libraries in /usr/lib!  Bad ebuild writer! ;-)
23:48.40brlcadhmm.. that build was aborted
23:48.46starseekerright
23:48.54starseekerI aborted it after I had the configure output
23:49.12starseekerDidn't think you'd want the whole thing?
23:49.25brlcadahh, I wanted to see if it tried to build incrTcl, libtcl, etc
23:50.03brlcadmaybe let bwish link too
23:50.12starseekerOh, OK.  So do the whole thing?
23:50.21brlcadif you don't mind
23:50.25starseekerno problem
23:52.14starseekerestimated time remaining - 30 min
23:52.18brlcadyou can watch the build and save it to a log with:  emerge ... 2>&1 | tee build.log
23:52.33brlcador tail -f the log file
23:53.45starseekerCool :-).  It's already well underway, so I'll let it go.  What might happen, by the way, is this will work until I emerge the system tcl/tk - I think that has happened once or twice.
23:58.16brlcadyou can tail -f the log file from another terminal at any time .. that just "watches" the log file
23:58.21brlcade.g. tail -f output.log
23:59.06starseekerCool!
23:59.15starseekerNever knew that
23:59.33brlcaduseful for watching system logs too
23:59.47starseekerIndeed.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050601

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050601

00:00.09brlcadyou can ctrl-C the tail whenever you want, it doesn't exit with the -f
00:00.26brlcadjust don't ctrl-c the thing writing to the log ;)
00:01.24starseekerOh, no :-)  It takes too long to restart.  Checkpointing an ebuild process would be nice but isn't done yet.
00:05.52starseekercreating rawtorle...
00:08.30starseekerI gotta run out and get dinner - I'll be back in a couple hours.  I'll mail you the build script once it's done - are you going to be on or will you be signing off?
00:11.37brlcadokay,thanks again
00:11.41brlcaddinner for me too
00:11.46brlcadi'm always here
01:28.15*** join/#brlcad brlcad (~brlcad@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:29.33starseekerOK, back.
02:29.38starseekergot full build.
02:30.31starseekerand on its way
02:31.25starseekermged works after this build
03:06.02brlcadgot it
07:12.07*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
07:12.08*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
17:29.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: copy the current COPYING and INSTALL to backup even if a backup already exists, add some more verbose echo
19:25.19*** join/#brlcad archivist (~archivist@host217-35-103-47.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
19:25.19*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
19:36.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: remove empty lines
19:37.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: don't install the scripts that are related to the build system (except elapsed.sh)
19:40.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/Makefile.am: include the geometry databases in the standard install at last (the benchmark suite it now installed)
19:42.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/pix/Makefile.am: include the reference benchmark images in the standard install (the benchmark suite it now installed)
19:48.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/perf.sh: benchmark.doc was renamed to benchmark.tr
19:49.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: include the run.sh and perf.sh script as part of the standard install, calling run.sh 'benchmark' for installation purposes
19:59.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: modify the benchmark to not assume it's in a source tree allowing it to work when installed. added PIX and ELP environment options for setting the location of the pixmap directory and the time elapsed script.
20:14.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/.cvsignore: ignore the generated benchmark tool
20:23.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: remove the benchmark script on a make clean
20:49.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: newline
21:26.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/perf.sh: search for the reference log files in the same manner that run.sh searches for the pix files. this script should probably merge into run.sh
21:30.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: don't presume that the benchmark.tr document is available/installed or that this is a source distribution
21:55.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: mention what files have been created/modified and explain what they are
22:09.37brlcadsweetness
22:11.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added 'benchmark' tool and install benchmark suite
23:06.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: installed benchmark suite and example geometry
23:07.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libbu whereis support is extended to the next iteration
23:08.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: or for future releases
23:09.11*** join/#brlcad cad527 (~a8b0a00d@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:09.19cad527Hi
23:09.30cad527algun hispano
23:09.41brlcadque tal
23:09.48cad527que bien
23:09.53cad527tengo un problema
23:09.57brlcadok
23:10.30brlcaddime pues :)
23:10.40cad527compilo el programa, pero cuando corro mged, me aparecen unas ventanas pero se cierran enseguida
23:10.45cad527que puede ser
23:11.31brlcadhrmph
23:11.36cad527cuando lo compilo no me vota ningun error
23:11.51brlcadno dice nada en el terminal/console?
23:11.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: successful build achieved on 'windows' via cygwin, so progress to a successful mingw build
23:12.22brlcadsuena que hay alguna problema con opengl
23:12.38cad527yo tambien lo creo
23:12.56cad527como puedo saber , que no tengo problemas con opengl
23:13.15brlcadcorra 'fbhelp' .. que dice?
23:13.44cad527que pena, lo que pasa es que no estoy en mi maquina en este momento
23:14.02brlcadaja, 'ta bien
23:14.12cad527que pena  usted a trabajado con otras herramientas de modelado 3d
23:14.35brlcadfbhelp debe decir si el brl-cad opengl framebuffer sirve
23:15.23brlcadsi, con varias
23:16.02cad527y que tal es brl-cad comparado con otras Solid Edge Solid works
23:16.04brlcadPro/E, Unigraphics, Blender, 3D studio
23:16.25brlcadah, bueno
23:16.35brlcaden que?
23:16.40brlcadprecio? :)
23:17.01brlcadedad? :)
23:17.30brlcadbrl-cad incluye mas que 400 programas
23:17.57brlcadmged es una de esas que tiene un gui
23:19.07cad527pero no entiendo bien que es brlcad
23:19.14brlcadel punto mas debil de brl-cad y mged en particular es el interfaz
23:19.19cad527que pena tienes tiempo ????
23:19.39brlcadsimpre estoy aquí ;)
23:19.46brlcadhrm.. aqui
23:21.23brlcadbrl-cad esta hecho con una filosofia de unix
23:22.15brlcadasi hay bastante programas pequeñas que hacen un funcion discreto
23:23.14brlcadprogramas de imagenes, convertidores, analisis de senales, modelers, etc
23:23.20cad527que pena tengo que salir un placer, y otro dia te hago mas preguntas
23:23.22cad527gracias
23:27.18*** join/#brlcad Manuel1326546 (~a8b0a00d@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:27.41brlcadya llego otro tan rapido :)
23:27.57Manuel1326546Que pena BRLCAD
23:28.05Manuel1326546podemos seguir con la charla
23:28.42brlcadno hay ninguna pena, puedes ir y venir cuando te da la gana ;)
23:29.27Manuel1326546como  es tu nombre
23:29.33Manuel1326546si se puede saber
23:29.57brlcadme llamo Sean
23:30.14brlcadaqui somos informales -- y tu?
23:30.33brlcadde donde eres?
23:33.33brlcadaah.. colombiano, si?
23:34.36brlcadhe conocido alguna gente de tu Uni
23:37.08Manuel1326546SI
23:37.31Manuel1326546y por que sabes que soy de Un
23:37.45brlcad:)
23:37.55brlcadtu ip
23:39.02Manuel1326546si me lo imagine
23:39.16Manuel1326546una pregunta tonta
23:39.27Manuel1326546que necesito para tener opengl
23:39.43brlcadcual es tu sistema operativa?
23:40.07Manuel1326546slack
23:40.23Manuel1326546en un pentium
23:40.40brlcady el graphics card?
23:40.45brlcadnvidia? ati?
23:40.56Manuel1326546tengo un generica
23:41.03brlcadaja
23:41.12Manuel1326546necesariemnte tengo que tener una aceleradora
23:41.13brlcadya entiendo por que no funciona ;)
23:41.39Manuel1326546que pena soy nuevo en esto
23:41.45brlcadinstallaste brl-cad de binary?
23:42.01brlcado lo compilaste tu mismo?
23:42.11Manuel1326546si y tambien el de las fuentes pero pasa lo mismo
23:42.36brlcadde las fuentes?
23:43.08Manuel1326546si
23:43.18brlcadhmm.. no debia compilar de las fuentes si no tienes opengl
23:43.41brlcadque dice dpyinfo ?
23:43.46Manuel1326546pues me compila y no me vota ningun error
23:44.22brlcader, xdpyinfo
23:44.57Manuel1326546no te puede responder, por que no estoy en la casa
23:45.09brlcadahh, verdad, se me olvido
23:45.41brlcadbueno, es facil arreglar si quieres
23:45.51brlcadno tiene que ser opengl
23:45.51Manuel1326546si ?????
23:45.59Manuel1326546como ???
23:46.17brlcadte tendria que dar unos archivos de las fuentes modificado
23:47.19brlcadque apagan el opengl
23:48.03*** join/#brlcad Manuel1326546 (~a8b0a00d@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:50.10*** join/#brlcad Manuel9876546879 (~a8b0a00d@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:50.22Manuel9876546879Que pena otra vez
23:50.28Manuel9876546879como hariamos entonces
23:51.02brlcadbueno.. puedes regresar cuando estas con la sistema que ya tiene brl-cad?
23:51.24Manuel9876546879creo que no por que en mi casa no tengo internet
23:51.36brlcadah, ya veo
23:51.41Manuel9876546879pero luego que tenia que hacer
23:51.46brlcadbueno pues..
23:51.49Manuel9876546879que archivos modifico o que
23:52.02brlcadsi
23:52.28brlcadprimeramente, modifica configure.ac
23:52.45brlcadbusca el linea que dice: AC_DEFINE(DM_OGL,1,[yeah, GL])
23:52.46Manuel9876546879que le pongo o que le quito
23:52.52brlcadborralo
23:53.06Manuel9876546879listo
23:53.09Manuel9876546879que mas
23:53.26brlcadsrc/libfb/Makefile.am
23:53.37brlcaddice:  AM_CFLAGS = ${X_CFLAGS} -DIF_REMOTE -DIF_AB -DIF_X -DIF_OGL
23:53.45brlcadquita el -DIF_OGL
23:54.16brlcadtambien hay una linea que dice:          if_ogl.c \
23:54.21brlcadborralo tambien
23:55.03brlcadel ultimo cambio..
23:55.16brlcades en src/libdm/Makefile.am
23:55.31brlcadalli dice:          dm-ogl.c \
23:55.33brlcadborralo
23:56.15brlcadeso debe ser todo que tienes que hacer
23:56.42brlcaddespues compilalo otra vez empezando con: ./autogen.sh
23:56.57brlcad./configure
23:56.59brlcadmake
23:57.06brlcadsudo make install
23:57.15Manuel9876546879y despues compilo para que compile sin el ogl
23:57.22brlcadsi
23:57.39Manuel9876546879gracias , alguna vez tuviste ese problema
23:57.42brlcadno pierdes nada practicamente
23:57.53brlcadel X11 interface es casi igual
23:58.15brlcadse ve igual
23:59.28Manuel9876546879y que otras aplicaciones de modelado o finitos usas
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050602

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050602

00:01.11brlcadprimeramente brl-cad
00:01.22Manuel9876546879y que OS usas
00:02.20brlcadpero a veces uso blender tambien cuando no importa si es solido
00:02.34brlcaduso varios OS
00:03.10brlcadmis sistemas primarios son Mac OS X
00:03.51brlcadpero tambien uso FreeBSD, IRIX, Solaris, AIX, Linux y otros
00:03.58*** join/#brlcad Manuel9876546879 (~a8b0a00d@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:04.21Manuel9876546879y para que usas brlcad
00:05.17brlcadcomo se dice developer?
00:05.20brlcadreveladores ?
00:05.38Manuel9876546879desarrollador
00:05.54Manuel9876546879y de donde eres
00:06.04brlcadsoy uno de los desarrolladores
00:06.29brlcadel principal
00:07.02brlcadahora mismo estoy en los E.U. Maryland
00:07.27brlcadpero "de donde soy" es una pregunta mas dificil ;)
00:07.44Manuel9876546879estamos hablando gracias por todo
00:22.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: libfb and libdm have hardcoded XMAXSCREEN and YMAXSCREEN values that are easily being surpassed on certain systems
01:41.35*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
07:42.44*** join/#brlcad cad266 (~92500941@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:22.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: removed unused defines from 4d carryover
13:45.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtcheck manpage and usage does not mention -g option
16:34.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: tcl must come after tk to resolve tk's symbols when using gcc on irix
22:50.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: First cut at a bot_merge command for MGED to allow user to combine multiple bots into 1
23:50.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c:
23:50.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: add a -f option to mged to prevent it from automatically detaching on startup --
23:50.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: this is often very useful for logging or debugging. also, make the
23:50.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: backgrounding notice wait until the gui is up and running before exiting instead
23:50.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: of sleeping an arbitrary amount of time -- the child notifies the parent when
23:50.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: the gui is up.
23:51.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.1: document the new -f option for preventing the background detachment.
23:53.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added a -f option to mged to prevent backgrounding
23:55.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: synchronized mged startup message with gui creation
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050603

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050603

00:33.25*** join/#brlcad guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
01:04.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac db/Makefile.am): add a --enable-models-install option with aliases for conditionally installing the example geometry models. benchmark geometry are still converted/installed as they are required for the installed benchmark tool
01:08.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: include release note details on the benchmark suite changes/installation as well as the addition of example geometry databases
05:23.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/cmd.c: the command string to rt_do_cmd is no longer modified by this routine so that the caller may use static command strings
05:24.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: add a -W option to all of the raytracers that specifies that a 'non-default' (usually inverted) background color should be used. for rt, this is a white background.
05:26.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (viewedge.c rtedge.1): the new -W option on rtedge means that the foreground and background colors need to be inverted so that it's black lines on a white background by default. (this implements sf request 1177331)
05:27.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: document the new -W option stating that it draws a white background for rt
05:31.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added -W option to raytracers for white background (implements sf request 1177331)
05:35.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: only swap the colors once otherwise the frame backgrounds will flop back and forth
05:53.29*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (~Matthew@pcp0011643451pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
06:01.17PKMOBILEhttp://www.monstercrawler.com/beta-bin/nph-beta.pl?qry=nutcase+liberal+websites
06:01.40PKMOBILEgood to know thats how people find me :-\
09:56.35*** join/#brlcad ping (~ping@ping.phys.ntu.edu.tw)
09:59.27pinghello!
10:01.46pingIt is great that result of such a long time project is now free software.  I'm in a small telescope design team and I'm thinking whether or not I can use BRL-CAD to simulate the imaging of a set of lenses with known surface (shape, size) and material (index of refraction, reflectivity).
10:02.18pingAny advices are appreciated!
11:44.24learnerhello ping
11:45.56learnerthat sounds like a neat project, similar to one I worked on a few years back
11:47.08*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (~c28bf505@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:47.58learneryou can definitely use brl-cad for simulating the lens though the default optics may be tricky to get looking realistic
11:51.01learnergutenmorgen herr d_rossberg
11:51.50d_rossberggood night Mr. learner
11:52.29d_rossbergi think i have found a problem in creating bots in mged
11:52.49d_rossbergthe unit taken is always mm
11:53.27learnercreating bots how?
11:53.47d_rossbergtry "units m; in foo bot ...; l foo"
11:54.04learnerahh
11:54.46d_rossbergversion is 7.2.4, if i remember right
11:55.36learnersure enough.. just looked at the code and it's missing the local2base conversion
11:56.43d_rossbergi looked at typein.c, but it look like the conversion is done somewhere else
11:57.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: typein of a bot is not performing a local2base units conversion
11:57.46d_rossbergOK, i found a call to local2base
11:58.14learneryeah, it's there -- it's just a simple multiply
11:58.20learneron the read
11:58.59learnerlocal2base is already set up with the correct units conversion scaling factor
11:59.12d_rossbergi took arbn_in as a reference, but couldn't find a significant difference in vertex-handling
12:00.18learnershoudl be a matter of multiplying just the atof's by local2base, but I'll have to test it some
12:04.25learnerdon't forget the thinkness atof if it's a plate
12:04.37learnerer, thickness
12:05.35learneryeah, looks like it's just those four
12:05.43learnercan you test to make sure that works how you expect?
12:07.21d_rossbergi hope so (i'll try it)
12:08.02d_rossberglooks like arbn_in has a similar problem
12:08.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: rossberg identifies a bug in bot typein where units conversion was apparently overlooked.
12:08.44d_rossbergit's not important for the normals, but for the distance parameters there, i would say
12:10.12learnerhmm
12:12.10learnerahh, yep, sure enough..
12:12.32learnerthe rt_arbn_import in librt/g_arbn.c
12:12.39learner<PROTECTED>
12:12.53learner<PROTECTED>
12:13.42learnergood catch!
12:15.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: rossberg finds another units problem in the arbn typein where the distance paramater is not taking units into account.
12:18.30d_rossbergi will now check out the developer sources and build it, this may take a while ...
12:19.08d_rossbergBTW: i can ssh at sourceforge.net :-)
12:19.37learner:)  great
12:20.06learneri believe the news file is now going to have to be utf-8 :)
12:25.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed units bug in mged typein of bot and arbn
12:37.12learnerheh, i think CIA-5 choked on some utf chars
12:37.53pinglearner: sorry that I left for dinner, and thanks!
12:38.31learnerno problem, and now I go shower :)
12:38.36pinglearner: any pointers to your project?  With your permission I'd like to take a look at the code.
12:42.03learneryou don't need my permission, it's openly available
12:42.21learneror rather 'sure!' you have my permission ;)
12:42.58learnerping: you can download it from http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/, I'd suggest getting it from CVS if you're a developer
12:43.38learnerand that's a rather interesting choice of irc nicks.. any particular significance?
12:45.27pingwell, that's the transliteration of my first name in Chinese... :)
12:45.46learnerahh okay :)
12:46.57learnerthere's more documentation on the website at http://brlcad.org
12:47.57pingchecking out the codes from CVS now...
12:48.48pingwhile waiting for CVS co to finish, I'd like to ask more questions.  :)
12:49.39pingIs there a way to find the size of image on the focal surface for parallel light rays coming from a fixed direction?
12:53.04learnerthe image size _on_ the focal surface?
12:54.45pingyes.  The parallel light rays will be focused by the lens not into a point but an image with finite size.  The size is a very important parameter in telescope design.
12:58.11learnerthere is definitely a means to calculate the size in code since you can traverse the rays and introspect them however you like
12:58.49learnerand similarly the rays are parallel coming from a fixed viewpoint/viewsize by default
12:59.06pingokay, great.  I'll read the documents and learn how to do that.  Is this part in the rt library?
12:59.23learneryes, that would be part of librt
12:59.32learneras well as parts of liboptical
13:00.22learnersounds like you either want some information out of liboptical or perhaps even your own varient of liboptical that has you optics behavior
13:00.35learnerperhaps just another shader type
13:02.36pingI didn't see liboptical in the "top level" of documents, any reference?
13:02.46learneryou could actually draw the light rays in mged and visualize the rays in 3D to observe how they converge.. that would be neat
13:05.47pingoh, that is cool!  I'll try that.
13:06.26learnerbasically in the modeler, you can issue plotting commands (actual old-school .pl code)
13:06.34learnerthat will draw lines
13:08.00learneryou could run the raytracer in either debug mode, or add some additional printing to give you ray trajectories as they are traversed, and then feed that into something that plots them in mged
13:08.01pinghmm... does that mean I have to learn a scripting language (.pl)?
13:08.21learnerno no, pl is a simple plotting instruction
13:08.41learnerused on the old plotter devices that used to make schematics
13:10.49pingthat sounds somewhat familiar...  :)
13:15.04learnerit depends a lot on what your ultimate goal is, but is sounds like you want to simulate different lenses and observe how they behave?
13:15.41learnerthe existing raytrace logic will deal with "pure" lenses as it is
13:16.17pingthat's right.  I want to determine the configuration of lenses (size, location, radius of curvature, etc) that produces the smallest image size within budget constraint.
13:16.34learnerbut is not set up for the variety of optics effects you encounter in real lenses like subsurface scattering, microfractures, dust/particulates, etc
13:16.57learnerfor that you'd have to modify liboptical or write a similar variety that takes those into account
13:18.14pingI think I'm doing an "idealistic" simulation for now so microfractures can be ignored.
13:18.44pingI think one big challenge might be the "Fresnel lens" where the surface of the lens has many "teeth".
13:19.09learnerthe raytracers (e.g. 'rt') deal with generating the rays, librt takes over and shoots/propagates the rays through a given scene reporting on when/where objects are hit, liboptical takes over when objects are hit telling it how the ray should react (does it scatter, diffuse, reflect back, etc)
13:20.39learnerthen the results are passed back to the raytracer from librt and liboptical for it to decide what to do with those events/values
13:21.19learnerwhich is usually something like generate a picture (rt), report on some mass/volume (rtweight), draw object outlines (rtedge), etc
13:22.20learnersounds to me like you're sort of wanting a raytracer that generates plot lines which wouldn't be too difficult at all
13:22.33learnerin fact there was a debug flag at one point that did that.. hrm
13:23.58pingoh, where is that debug flag?
13:26.37learneri'd have to hunt, but it should be either the -x flag to rt, with flags described in include/raytrace.h
13:27.00learnerI'd love to continue this but I unfortunately have a meeting .. i'll be back in a bit
13:27.45pingsure!  (am compiling the source code right now)
14:54.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: the caller may use static command strings to rt_do_cmd
14:59.34pingthe CVS version has a compile error in src/librt/cmd.c:193... need to replace "const char *ilp" by "char *ilp" and "register const ..." by "const ..." to get it compiled.
15:02.19d_rossberglearner: i couldn't build BRL-CAD from CVS because of undefined "yyin" etc. in brlcad/src/tab/scriptsort.o
15:02.46d_rossbergping: my last commit fixed this problem
15:05.17d_rossbergping: but because of slow replication it may be better to fix it by hand now:
15:08.01d_rossbergping: include/raytrace.h line 2701 should be "const char *ilp,"
15:22.23pingoh I fixed it by replacing the function argument types in src/librt.cmd.c
17:53.30brlcadyeah, sorry about that -- I forgot to commit a header file last night
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20:28.13PKMOBILEstop drop and roll... the nutcase liberal with a website is here!
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09:24.44spivHI! there
09:24.58spivgood day
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16:58.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh:
16:58.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: with a little applescripting, set the Finder window parameters and allow time
16:58.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: for the background image to be set since there's no apparent programmatic means
16:58.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: to set the background image automatically yet (10.4 might). also, fix the path
16:58.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: to the openUp tool.
17:24.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for stat
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01:59.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: bot typein bug was fixed
02:43.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewcheck.c: add -g and -G to the usage
02:45.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: init the cell width and height to something
02:45.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtcheck.1: document the -g and -G options
02:48.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtcheck manpage and usage now mention the -g and -G options
02:53.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: documented the rtcheck -g and -G options
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11:22.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: cosmetic
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22:35.23*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon!
23:36.59*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
23:39.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: add a noprod compilation target to remove the binaries and libraries
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050608

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04:25.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: mention the geometric models and images specifically even if they are already covered by the gpl under the existing language. also mention that AUTHORS has project admins listed too.
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07:48.42*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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10:31.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
14:24.48d_rossbergi would say, the mged commands "in ... bot" and "in ... arbn" are OK now
14:34.27brlcadexcellent :)
14:34.35brlcadshould release 7.2.6 later today
14:35.05brlcadjust have one last thing to check on .. sgi knobs
14:39.03d_rossbergit wasn't easy to compile brlcad, it took me 2 days
14:39.35d_rossbergi had to install flex and bison/byacc first
14:39.59d_rossbergthis wasn't neccessary for 7.2.4
14:41.01d_rossbergthe problem was: "make clean" doesn't delete the files created by flex
14:44.07d_rossbergand maybe there is another problem:
14:44.32d_rossbergwrite the following lines in a file, say test.in:
14:44.41d_rossbergunits m
14:44.58d_rossbergin box rpp 0 1 0 1 0 1
14:45.01d_rossbergin test arbn 6 0 0 -1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 -1 0 0 1 0 -1 0 1 0 0 1 1
14:45.18d_rossbergrt
14:46.08d_rossbergthen call mged with "mged test.g < test.in"
14:48.16d_rossbergmay be there is a general problem with parsing commands in mged (Debian 3.1)
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02:19.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: remove noprod target until there is an include makefile
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02:34.44calyps0whats a decent win prog for making small handheld things?  im fairly new to cad, and can only find building architecture-related progs.
02:49.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: (re)add a make target that removes only build products
03:16.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: woot, bump it up
03:48.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: changelog entries from 7.2.4 to 7.2.6 for release
03:49.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS README configure.ac): bump revision to 7.2.6
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23:17.06*** join/#brlcad des_ (~des@des.no)
23:20.14des_anyone on?
23:21.45archivistyes but
23:21.52brlcadhowdy
23:21.57des_evening.
23:22.24des_I am having the strangest problem with mged.
23:23.03des_I have a very simple model - a box made of five separate panels (no bottom), one of which has a cutout and a door.
23:23.39des_when I try to combine these panels into a region or comb or group, mged goes nuts and adds five copies of each item to the group...
23:23.55des_I must have done a stupid newbie mistake, but there you are...
23:24.40des_I'd cut'n'paste from the command window, but it's rather long.
23:24.46des_anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
23:26.34brlcadhmm
23:26.41brlcadhow long is long?
23:26.48des_30-odd lines.
23:26.55brlcadeep
23:27.04brlcadhttp://pastebin.com/
23:27.12brlcadpaste it there
23:28.24des_http://pastebin.com/298102
23:29.21des_reload, I added 'l panel.front;
23:29.27des_'l panel.front' even.
23:30.00brlcadadd an l panel.back
23:30.31des_reload
23:30.36brlcadI've never seen g do that.. hrm
23:31.38des_same thing happens with r and comb
23:32.02brlcadcan you add another ls -la
23:33.01des_done.  I also redid panels as a region.
23:33.52brlcadhas mged crashed on you at any point?
23:33.57des_no.
23:34.24brlcadthose messages from kill panels sounds like part of the problem
23:34.43brlcadif you kill panels again, and do a 'db get panels' what does it report?
23:35.12des_I'm starting to wonder if I've tripped some kind of secret "do everything five times" command :-)
23:35.46des_for instance:
23:35.51brlcadheh, no, but you might have _somehow_ corrupted your database or found some other obscure bug
23:35.54des_mged> make foo rpp
23:35.54des_foo:  already exists
23:36.06des_(but there was no foo)
23:36.25brlcadif you 'db get foo' it returns nothing?
23:36.43des_mged> db get foo
23:36.43des_foo: not found
23:36.43des_mged> make foo rpp
23:36.43des_foo:  already exists
23:36.52des_mged> kill foo
23:36.52des_db_lookup(foo) failed: foo does not exist
23:36.56des_wheee!
23:37.01brlcadarf
23:37.05brlcadcan you send me that .g?
23:37.10des_yep.
23:38.01des_if my firewall will allow it.
23:39.08brlcade-mail?
23:40.40des_yep. addy?
23:40.54brlcadsent via pm
23:45.50des_made with brlcad 7.2.4, btw.
23:46.11des_and another thing: it doesn't save font settings to .mgedrc.
23:46.32des_is that a known issue?
23:46.52brlcadyes, it is
23:47.04des_fixed in 7.2.6?
23:47.11brlcadyou can still set the fonts in your .mgedrc manually
23:47.26des_yep.
23:47.52brlcadit's not beed looked at by anyone really afaik
23:48.07brlcadthere's actually quite a bit that's not persisted in the .mgedrc
23:48.22brlcadmostly only the settings on the misc/modes menus
23:48.51brlcadhmm.. try this and let me know if it works:
23:49.14brlcadkeep test.g door.flap panels
23:49.21brlcadopendb test.g
23:49.27brlcadkill panels
23:49.47brlcadr panels u panel.left u panel.right u panel.back u panel.top u panel.front
23:49.49brlcadl panels
23:49.57des_yep.
23:50.00brlcadpaste the l panels output
23:50.02des_no udplicates.
23:50.08des_ged> l panels
23:50.08des_panels:  REGION id=1000  (air=0, los=100, GIFTmater=1) --
23:50.08des_<PROTECTED>
23:50.08des_<PROTECTED>
23:50.08des_<PROTECTED>
23:50.09des_<PROTECTED>
23:50.11des_<PROTECTED>
23:50.17brlcadgood...
23:50.37des_bug or pilot error?
23:50.54brlcadnot sure yet
23:51.06brlcadsounding like a bug, but no idea how it might have been caused
23:51.25brlcadbasically it sounds like there's a slight corruption in the .g
23:51.59brlcadso slight that it hasn't tripped any of the corruption detections (which is something very hard to do)
23:52.39des_hm.
23:52.43des_ever heard of sudoku?
23:52.58brlcadhave not
23:53.17des_it's a silly little numbers puzzle you find in newspapers and stuff.
23:53.22des_I've written a solver for it.
23:53.43des_I spent most of yesterday evening trying to figure out why it tripped an assertion
23:53.50des_poring over debugging printouts line by line...
23:53.55brlcadheh :)
23:54.06brlcadhmm.. the file you sent me works here just fine too...
23:54.08des_and finally figuring out that I had mistyped the problem.
23:54.14brlcadthat must mean it's something internal to your mged instance
23:54.33des_so sometimes a complicated problem can have a simple explanation :)
23:54.39brlcadif you restart mged on the original .g and kill panels, and recreate, does it still happen?
23:54.55des_yes, I've done that several times already...
23:55.35des_does mged have some sort of logging functionality?
23:55.46des_I mean, can it keep a log of the command window?
23:56.38des_it might be useful in the future if I trip over this (or something similar) again
23:57.05brlcadthere's a means to save the commands themselves to a file, but that won't keep their output
23:57.15des_hm.
23:57.21brlcadthere's a means to capture all the output, but you have to invoke mged differently
23:57.54des_maybe I'll go dive into the source code and figure out how to keep a running log...
23:58.35des_hmm, I really should try to set up a second monitor
23:58.46des_one for the command window, one for the graphics window...
23:58.59brlcadit would be a relatively simple addition to make to the command that saves the command history
23:59.03des_but most of all, I should really go to bed.  It's 2 am over here in .no.
23:59.42des_thank you very much for your help.
23:59.47brlcadno problem
23:59.52brlcadif you do want to save a log:
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050610

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050610

00:00.03brlcadmged -c foo.g > file.log 2>&1
00:00.04brlcadgui
00:00.23des_I assume -c means console mode?
00:00.28brlcadyep
00:00.35des_OK, thanks.
00:00.42brlcadgui forks off the gui while in console mode
00:00.57brlcadeffectively splitting the I/O so it does to both the window and the console
00:01.04brlcads/does/goes/
00:01.17des_precisely what I want.
00:01.25des_bye now :)
00:22.55*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
00:22.55*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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01:47.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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11:44.42*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
15:44.13*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
15:44.13*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
17:35.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS README configure.ac): bump the revision after release 7.2.6 to a minor increment release of 7.3.0 (directory reorganizations planned)
17:36.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: next release should include a reorganization of the install directories
17:42.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtweight chokes on a .density file that has less than 3 values per line (infinite loop). also gives infinite areas when presented with an empty .density file
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18:52.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c:
18:52.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: added bot_merge to merge two bots together. Since rt_db_put_internal
18:52.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: does the freeing for us
18:52.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: I deleted the calls to bu_free on data structures that are already free.
18:58.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: log bot_merge addition
18:59.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: Removed debugging foo
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19:58.57*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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20:12.56*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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20:30.28*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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22:58.40*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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23:05.21*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050611

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050611

09:57.16*** join/#brlcad clock- (clock@twin.jikos.cz)
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14:14.21clock-Hello
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20:34.02*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050612

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050612

00:31.35*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
00:31.35*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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01:43.27*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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01:56.28*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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02:08.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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02:31.46*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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05:33.07*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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09:18.45*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
09:22.39clock-Hello I have already made 10 models with brlcad: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
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16:05.12janohttp://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/
16:05.13jano:D
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16:57.47clock-How to model threaded bolt in BRL-CAD?
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18:08.01*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
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18:27.02*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 || http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg || Release 7.2.4 is now posted (20050511) || We will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon! || Release 7.2.6 due out today...
20:21.34*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
21:01.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: be a little more clear on contributions being compatible with the existing COPYING requirements
21:21.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: put the date last on the install log line, makes reading/parsing a lil easier
21:23.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: add a getting help section. the releases are monthly and is presently sustainable, so document it.
21:41.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a BRLCAD_DATA_DIR that is $(prefix)/share/brlcad/VERSION and stuff the sample apps there for starters. comment on the disable dependency tracking reason.
21:59.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/search.m4: search lib64 directories too
22:02.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/wdb.h src/libwdb/wdb.c): use long instead of an off_t for mk_binunif since the struct is a long now anyways
22:03.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/Makefile.am: don't install tclsh
22:05.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/Makefile.am: don't install wish
22:19.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (34 files in 34 dirs): install all of the data in subdirs under BRLCAD_DATA_DIR now, making the install one step closer to playing more politely with the packaging operating systems.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050613

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050613

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050614

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050614

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04:41.45*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
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14:11.55brlcadclock-: thank you!
14:13.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_pkg.sh: take symbolic links into account so that if the archive root is a symbolic link, it will still become properly archived
14:14.28clock-brlcad: for what?
14:14.38brlcadthe bug reports..
14:14.43clock-brlcad: aah, you are welcome.
14:14.48clock-I have already made about 12 models:
14:14.52clock-http://ronja.twibright.com/3d
14:15.04brlcadI've been showing them
14:15.12clock-brlcad: where? :)
14:15.13brlcadvery interesting
14:15.41brlcadI'm at the 2005 international conference on shapes and solids right now
14:16.06brlcadshowed it to others on the dev team too
14:16.19clock-brlcad: actually the bugs in brlcad don't prevent me from working with the program at all
14:16.36clock-brlcad: when it crashes, it doesn't affect the data.
14:16.53brlcadthat's good to know, though they are definitely unacceptible
14:17.14brlcadyeah, data preservation is by design .. it's generally _very_ hard to corrupt your data
14:17.15clock-brlcad: the work is quite fast. I have numbers in 2D blueprint and I can enter them numerically.
14:17.32brlcadnot impossible, but very hard -- moreso than in most apps
14:17.53clock-brlcad: are you a member of Ballistic Research Laboratory?
14:18.48clock-brlcad: I have seen there is a parabolic cone. That's nice for optical simulations.
14:40.40brlcadneed to get that website up and running.. with a section on all the primitives available
14:41.14brlcadthere are more primitives than most cad systems support, but most are obscure use ;)
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16:01.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: bu_realloc() always needs to return a value
16:20.04archivistI miss dunkin donuts over here in england
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16:35.17brlcadarchivist: hehe
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17:12.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot.c: Fixed a potential infinite loop in rt_bot_same_orientation()
17:18.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/binary_obj.c: Use __int64 instead of long long if the OS is Windows
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17:31.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewcheck.c: Remove space after the escape
18:31.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed potential infinite loop bug in BoT primitive
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20:22.31clock-brlcad: here?
21:21.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Add a -noleaf option to the pathlist command. Modify the rmap command to ignore hidden regions.
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22:08.46*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050615

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050615

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04:08.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: parker added a -noleaf option to the mged pathlist command
04:35.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): protect the sys/wait.h headers with HAVE_SYS_WAIT_H since not all systems (e.g. mingw) have it.
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13:02.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: FreeSolid is no longer visible outside of librt. I need access to it from a library outside of BRL-CAD, so I added another member to struct dg_obj (i.e. dgo_freeSolids) that points to FreeSolid.
13:53.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Add dgo_freeSolids member to struct dg_obj
13:55.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/wdb.c: Use __int64 instead of long long if pure Windows
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14:11.10*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
15:53.50*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
15:53.50*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
16:22.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c:
16:22.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: Detect cyclic geometry references when looking up geometry and handle in a
16:22.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: mostly-graceful manner. Instead of letting the functions continue recursively
16:22.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: until the stack is blown, mark the first instance of the cycle as a no-op and
16:22.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: blather the details of the cycle.
16:29.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
16:29.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: improve detection and handling of cyclic geometry references. this prevents
16:29.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: mged and other tools from blowing the stack when someone inadvertently or
16:29.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: intentionally creates a cyclic reference (potentially deep). (related to sf
16:29.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: bug/request 1173554 and 1219294)
16:41.56*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
16:41.56*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
17:17.31*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
17:17.31*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
17:19.38clock-brlcad: hello
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20:23.32*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050616

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050616

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10:17.01clock-hello
10:22.43d_rossbergHi
10:33.46clock-Does rtweight work in 7.2.6 for you?
10:33.57clock-For me it stops in infinite loop spewing out this:
10:34.15clock-error parsing line 21742 of density file.
10:34.15clock-0 args recognized instead of 3
10:34.18clock-error parsing line 21742 of density file.
10:34.18clock-0 args recognized instead of 3
10:34.29clock-Where the number constantly increased (sorry accidentally pasted twice)
10:34.35clock-Although 7.2.2 worked OK on this.
11:20.45d_rossbergi've never used rtweight
11:22.51d_rossbergbut there were made changes in reading .density between 7.2.2 and 7.2.4
11:24.27d_rossbergalso the error message you mentioned was introduced in version 7.2.4
11:29.28d_rossberge.g., every line has to contain 3 entries (fscanf has to return 3, in your case it's 2)
11:31.37d_rossbergsorry, it's 0, of course
11:35.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: reorder the applescript and add an update and secondary method to attempt to force the window bounds and position
11:39.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/ (ReadMe.rtfd/TXT.rtf Welcome.rtfd/TXT.rtf): update version to 7.3.0
13:07.48clock-The content of the file:
13:07.50clock-1 7.7641 Mild Steel
13:07.50clock-2 1.522 Manufactured Rubber
13:07.50clock-3 2.579 Window Glass
13:07.50clock-4 8.920 Copper
13:07.52clock-5 2.700 Aluminium
13:07.55clock-I see 3 entries.
13:08.27clock-d_rossberg: and my file doesn't contain line number 10000 :)
14:00.40d_rossbergclock: what's the first line number it complains about? (sorry, i was out of my office for a while)
14:05.54d_rossbergclock-: if it's number 1 try to concatenate the second and third entry, i.e. "1 7.7641Mild Steel" etc.
14:07.45d_rossbergthe format string for fscanf is "%d %f%s"
14:08.15d_rossbergmaybe there should be a space between %f and %s
14:12.14clock-d_rossberg: It's number 1
14:13.04clock-d_rossberg: concatenated, and does the same.
14:13.12clock-1 7.7641Mild Steel
14:22.16d_rossberggood ... er ... bad
14:23.50d_rossbergi'll test it on an example ...
14:30.03d_rossbergOK, i've tested it and i could reproduce your problem
14:30.38d_rossbergtry Mild_Steel, Manufactired_Rubber, etc.
14:47.37brlcadclock-: there is very little error checking on the .density file
14:51.26brlcadclock-: can you paste the file somewhere?  it could very well be something simple like a trailing empty newline
14:51.51brlcadthere shouldn't be any empty lines or it will not parse correctly
14:53.34brlcadspaces in the material name should be fine, the %s catches everything after the number with any whitespace separating
14:54.08brlcadthat might be a tab required between the %d and the %f .. I'd have to check
14:54.55brlcadhmm.. not a tab
14:55.28d_rossbergthe problem is: fscanf("%s") != fgets
14:57.26d_rossberg%s: String, up to first white-space character (according to MSDN)
14:57.46brlcadhmm
14:57.49archivistit might be more sensible for the string to be quoted
14:57.51brlcaddidn't used to be fscanf..
14:58.09clock-brlcad: btw - the day before yesterday we have been talking about Mike Muus
14:58.22clock-brlcad: yesterday I was riding a tram and it crashed with a truck :)
14:58.36brlcadeek
14:58.59brlcadahh, looks like lbutler recently changed the .density file parsing..
14:59.00clock-brlcad: one has to be careful here. Swiss are precise people, especially precise when it comes to targetting a tram with a truck.
14:59.20brlcadheh
14:59.36clock-brlcad: it happened in the very historic centre of Zurich, and the truck was Swiss (Thurgau)
14:59.46brlcadwell, to be precise, Mike's last name is Muuss ;)
14:59.54clock-Aha, Muuss
15:01.20clock-brlcad: I have been living in Prague for 25 years and nothing like that happened to me - and I have been going to university every day by a tram through the centre, for several years.
15:01.35clock-brlcad: and after 6 months in Switzerland, bang- :)
15:01.37brlcadd_rossberg: sure enough.. it used to be (void)fgets( buf, BUFSIZ, densityfp );
15:01.47brlcadlooks like an inadvertent bug injected
15:02.29clock-Is it allowed to have whitespace contained in "Mild Steel"?
15:02.45d_rossberg7.2.2: yes, 7.2.4: no
15:02.48brlcadclock-: it's good that you're at least well enough to be able to walk and talk about it
15:03.11clock-brlcad: actually, it looked like nothing happened to anyone. The people just all walked out
15:03.21brlcadlucky
15:03.32clock-(after I opened the door with emergency opening. The tram driver obviously even didn
15:03.59clock-t have the basic training that if something like that happens, he has to open the door because the truck's tanks can be leaking and could ignite, and fry the people inside).
15:04.08clock-Only a while after I walked out, the driver opened the doors.
15:04.59clock-brlcad: however 3 consecutive windows of the tram were de-glassed where the truck hit.
15:05.32clock-brlcad: hmm, after replacing Mild Steel with Mild_Steel, it seems to work :)
15:06.19brlcadi'll see if I can make a fix for that later today (unless d_rossberg beats me to it) ;)
15:06.25clock-brlcad: does BRL-CAD support also modelling tram and truck crashes?
15:06.47d_rossbergi'll try to fix it today
15:06.48brlcadyou mean automatic collision deformation?
15:06.51clock-Material #15 Mildly_Hardened_Passenger_That_Regularly_Attends_Fitness_Room
15:07.24clock-brlcad: what is automatic collision deformation?
15:07.49brlcadthe ability to impose a physical deformation on an object and utilize it's material properties
15:08.01brlcadso, for example .. I have a model of a building and a truck
15:08.15clock-Material #16 Old_Lady_That_Dies_From_Cardiac_Arrest_Just_From_Seeing_The_Truck_Approaching
15:08.26brlcadI push the truck into the building and have it automatically deform both or either the truck/building
15:08.46clock-brlcad: is this possible in software at all?
15:08.58brlcadyes, it's possible
15:09.04brlcadit's not easy, but it's possible to implement
15:09.15clock-brlcad: btw have you seen the Sandia National Laboratory tests with propelling rail engine and airplane motor against 5m thick concrete wall?
15:09.17brlcadwe don't currently have that ability
15:09.19clock-That was wonderful :)
15:09.30clock-Rail engine -> didn't notice (just fell out of the track)
15:09.37clock-airplane motor -> vaporized
15:10.06brlcadno, I haven't but it sounds like other tests I might have seen :)
15:10.54clock-brlcad: which ones? (unless this is an information kept secret to keep Axil Of Evil invading the U. S. A.)?
15:11.26clock-(everyone who's not with us is against us! (Especially when it comes to breaking the Geneve conventions))
15:12.12brlcadoh, all sorts
15:12.45archivistthey ran a train with a nuclear flask into something in the uk
15:14.40brlcadooh, interesting talk
15:14.46clock-archivist: nuclear flask?
15:14.50brlcadimplicit surfaces for complex shapes
15:15.36archivistyes its used for moving nuclear rod/wast by rail
15:15.47clock-aha.
15:15.54clock-And did it stay together?
15:16.34clock-I have seen the pictures of hardened nuclear lava flowing from steam pipes of Chernobyl reactor.
15:16.58archivistyes it was a pr success
15:17.01clock-The guy at gamma spectroscope workplace in Prague said it was 500 times normal background that day - and Prague is waaay away from Chernobyl.
15:19.17clock-Actualy about the distance as Italy
15:20.35clock-brlcad: why did you strive for brlcad being opensource?
15:29.24brlcadwhy?
15:29.37brlcadwhy not?
15:29.46brlcadthere are many reasons actually
15:30.47brlcadthere are the traditional selfish reasons of getting improvements to BRL-CAD from a larger community of users/developers, but the main reasons are for BRL-CAD's own sake
15:31.16brlcadI believe that it's a great CAD package in many ways with tremendous capability and possibilities for improvement
15:32.18brlcadthose improvements are very hard to realize or justify in a research or even commercial environment often, being open source lets the tool improve and adjust more rapidly to the community at large
15:33.09brlcadwe've always distributed source, but it was a real pain to actually get and use .. now it's very simple to get it and slowly becoming even more easier to use
15:50.18CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: read the names from .density until new-line
15:50.32brlcadheh, yep, beat me to it :)
15:51.14d_rossbergwith the same solution?
15:51.33brlcadnope
15:51.45brlcadI was reverting it back to fgets with extra error checking
15:52.22brlcadhow portable is that %[^]?
15:52.51d_rossbergi found it in MSDN and tested it on Debian 3.1 (sarge)
15:54.20d_rossbergthe problem with fgets is: a return of 0 doesn't mean neccessary an error
15:54.27brlcadI think the common name can probably be made completely optional .. i'll have to give it a test here
15:54.43brlcadyeah, that's fine
15:54.55brlcadthe name can be auto-generated for 0 returns
15:55.13brlcadI believe that was part of the original idea too
15:56.23d_rossbergi think, if a line contains no name, the fgets in the old solution has read the next line
15:56.57brlcadfgets is supposed to stop at a newline and include the newline
15:57.24brlcadso it 'should' be "\n" though that's what I'm testing now
15:58.28d_rossbergthat's right, but if fscanf reads the whole line (because of the missing name) fgets will start on the next line (and makes it a name)
16:00.12brlcadhmm, okay
16:03.22brlcadthen I shall leave it alone ;)
16:03.52d_rossbergat least until the next problem ;-)
16:03.58brlcadyep
16:04.44brlcadi might add a check for i == 2
16:40.54CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed .density file parser bug in rtweight
16:40.58clock-what happens when I set material to 0 instead of default 1?
16:41.21clock-Will it be taken as weightless?
16:41.37brlcadno
16:41.44brlcadit's just a table lookup
16:42.39brlcadso a zero material just correlates to the material of type 0 in the density file
16:43.16brlcadtheoretically, you can use any non-negative number up to 32k, after 7.2.4 or up to 100 pre 7.2.4
18:25.40brlcad~translate de en Feierabend
18:25.56brlcadcool
18:35.02clock-~translate de en unschuldig
18:35.17clock-~translate de en Schaffhausen
18:35.25clock-;-)
18:35.31clock-~translate de en Zurich
18:35.54clock-~translate de en Feuerverzinkerei
18:36.07clock-~translate de en Aluminiuminimumimunitaet
18:36.17clock-~translate de en verzinken
18:36.30clock-~translate de en verzinnen
18:36.43clock-~translate de en verzinntes
18:36.53clock-~translate de en Stahlblech
18:37.10clock-~translate en de tin
18:37.16clock-~translate en de can
18:37.22clock-~translate en de box
18:37.39clock-~translate de en verzinntes Stahlblechkasten
18:38.02clock-wow, finally I can replace the annoying "tinned steel tin tin" in Ronja :)
18:39.42*** join/#brlcad AllenHarvey (~8cb91c2a@66.111.56.50)
18:40.17AllenHarveyHello, I am having a major problem with the database format of BRLCAD 7.2 and would like some assistance
18:40.52AllenHarveyI am using an application that was written with BRLCAD 4.4 in mind and can only read the older database format.
18:41.04AllenHarveyis there a tool to convert from the new format to the old format?
18:41.19AllenHarveyor is there a way to obtain a key for an brlcad 4.4?
18:49.10brlcadhello AllenHarvey
18:50.21brlcadAllenHarvey: there is a tool, though I'd highly recommend against going backwards
18:50.53brlcadyou're very likely to break geometry or otherwise loose information going from the v5 database spec to the v4 database spec
18:51.20brlcadwell, maybe not break geometry, but definitely might loose geometry
18:52.20AllenHarveywhat tool is that?
18:53.00brlcadwhat's the application, if I may ask?
18:53.06AllenHarveyMEVA 6.1.2
18:54.07brlcadahh
18:54.20brlcadI've been working on upgrading MEVA to use the v5 format
18:54.34AllenHarveyYou told me that once before actually
18:55.00AllenHarveybut with them converting their program to windows, i don't think they are in a hurry to upgrade their brlcad
18:55.04brlcadheh, ok .. sorry, senility ;)
18:55.19AllenHarveyactually, i have no clue how they are handling that issue with their next upgrade
18:55.31brlcadactually, they are very interested -- talked to them a couple times since I last talked to you
18:55.40AllenHarveygood good
18:56.03AllenHarveyI wonder if they never knew brl-cad had advanced quite a bit
18:56.04brlcadthe larger issue is that they're merging MEVA into another larger framework
18:56.12AllenHarveywhat framework is that?
18:56.43brlcadthe name escapes me right this second
18:57.02AllenHarveydoes this mean that meva will become part of a larger application and not be it's own fully stand alone application
18:57.43brlcadI can't speak with any authority, but that was my personal take on it
18:57.57AllenHarveyby the way, I have only been able to get ahold of David Watts when it comes to MEVA, the 2 main developers have ignored everyone of my emails.  I even made contact with an analyst who works with them
18:58.01brlcadpart of the .. *argl* .. something Framework
18:58.05AllenHarveyand she told them to contact me but still haven't
18:58.51AllenHarveyin any case, is there a way you can provide with me a key to brlcad 4.4 or the utility to downgrade the database?
19:00.14brlcadI can do the latter, though I'll actually have to read the source to remember
19:00.18brlcadgimme a sec
19:00.27AllenHarveyno problem, thanks
19:03.11brlcadgot it?
19:03.20AllenHarveylet me check
19:03.30AllenHarveyyou emailed it, correc?
19:03.37AllenHarveyif so, i haven't received it yet
19:03.48brlcadno no
19:03.51brlcadother irc window
19:07.38brlcadclock-: I'm actually not so positive about setting the material id to 0 now -- did you try it?
19:07.54clock-brlcad: yes.
19:08.02clock-2.80319e+272 kg is not right, I guess :)
19:08.14clock-We don't have enough matter in the universe for that :)
19:09.11clock-brlcad: is it possible to make some program generate ASCII programs for mged which would put them into .g database and this way automatically generate e.g. a 3D model of printed circuit board with all the holes and tracks?
19:09.24clock-brlcad: what should I do to make it not count?
19:10.29clock-brlcad: what -> how
19:11.48clock-brlcad: how -> what. Multiple brain errors detected in a row. Press RESET to continue or any other key to reset.
19:15.12clock-hm the e+267 doesn't seem to be caused by material id 0
19:17.48archivisthmm pcb dexign progs output drill table has all the hole onfo for a pcb,and the gerber output has track info, height and shape was crap when i last used a pcb prog in anger
19:18.31clock-Problem: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
19:18.47clock-The two bottommost consoles report both the same mass 4.26886e+267 kg
19:19.00clock-I tried BRL-CAD 7.2.2 and 7.2.6 and both have the same problem.
19:19.07clock-.density file is the link at the bottom.
19:21.06clock-Is this my fault or is BRL-CAD broken?
20:08.03*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
20:08.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
20:13.05*** join/#brlcad clock-_ (~clock@39.46.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch)
20:26.49brlcadclock-_: i've seen the e+272 problem, I was debugging it earlier
20:26.57brlcadit's basically using a density of -1
20:28.10brlcadit's a bug that's observed with an empty .density too
20:28.57brlcadit's rarely ever encountered as those material IDs are actually relatively "standaradized" across historical use
20:29.20brlcade.g. id 1 is always steel, there is no id 0
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21:44.59CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: add weight.sh to the EXTRA_DIST list so that it's added to source distributions and so users will be able to run the test suite.. I swear I commited this already
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050617

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050617

01:17.31Twingyhrm
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13:52.18d_rossbergbrlcad: What have you done in src/librt/binary_obj?
13:52.40d_rossbergbrlcad: You know the type of stat.st_size is off_t (so is your comment).
13:52.55d_rossbergbrlcad: Why haven't you used this type instead of long long?
14:03.23clock-my rtweight is reporting mass in order of 10^267 kg.
14:33.38d_rossbergi can reproduce this, after deleting the material entry in .density
14:53.00clock-d_rossberg: deleting which material entry?
14:57.38d_rossbergin my test i used a simple box with material id 1; but in .density i've changed the 1 to 2 (so there is no density for material 1 any more)
14:59.22d_rossbergon the first sight the problem looks like an uninitialized double (e.g. reading the data from an array position which wasn't initialized from .density)
15:09.54CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (157 files in 18 dirs): Welcome ADRT
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19:11.17CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (38 files in 14 dirs): hoisting build system and making it play nice with brlcad
19:17.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am): add in adrt
19:20.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/igvt_struct.h: need this header... was struct.h
19:42.29archivistinteresting error Makefile.am has modification time 2.2e+06 in the future
20:09.06archivistdoes the makefile loop?
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21:40.22CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: eh, we don't use config.h anymore, we use brlcad_config.h
21:41.24CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (18 files in 9 dirs): use brlcad_config.h instead of config.h
22:45.01archivistdont have an early date on the pc it screws the make completely (add a date time check and stop the make)
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23:11.32brlcadnow that's a lot of e-mail
23:11.42Twingyhrm?
23:11.53brlcadadrt commits
23:11.56Twingy:}
23:12.37Twingyglad I don't get em
23:12.59Twingyhow'd you go about getting a post on slashdot?
23:13.14brlcadarchivist: which Makefile?
23:13.20brlcadeh, whatdaya mean?
23:13.22TwingyI'm thinking I'd like to make a post next week
23:14.00brlcadthere's a link on the main page
23:14.04Twingyk
23:14.08brlcadlog in first
23:14.15Twingythat would require me to make an account
23:14.20brlcadthen you can check status whether it's rejected or accepted
23:15.39brlcadposting your rocketry?
23:16.11brlcadcall it a hunch
23:17.00Twingyk
23:17.05Twingyit builds
23:17.18Twingyno, adrt
23:17.37TwingyI wouldn't leave brlcad in an unbuildable state
23:18.08brlcadhah
23:18.26brlcadyou don't know the power of solaris :)
23:19.12brlcad``Erik: that shoulda been common, not brlcad_config
23:19.30brlcadotherwise the windows build won't work
23:20.14brlcadthis was a damn good conference
23:40.41archivistheh it doesnt build at the moment
23:42.22archivistI had the data a month back on a new box i am playing with it screwed it at the make stage only obvious error at the time was a "forward date on makefile.am"
23:43.50archivistafter correcting that I now get loads of other errors (I assume a buggered checkout if someone updated during my checkout)
23:45.03archivistits on a clean debian install
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050618

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050618

00:19.13Twingyit just built for me *shrug*
00:19.36TwingyDone.
00:19.36TwingyBRL-CAD Release 7.3.0, Build 20050617
00:19.36TwingyElapsed compilation time: 19 minutes, 18 seconds
00:19.54``Erikbuild for me before I left the office
00:19.57``Erikbuilt, even
00:28.43archivisti seem to have a borked download and the animal is refusing to do another cvs checkout (my winbox is quite happy though)
00:29.49Twingythat might explain things
00:33.54archivisthehe must type ALL the cvs cmd
00:37.08archivistnow getting aclocal: configure.ac: 1409: macro `AM_PATH_SDL` not found in library
00:37.17archivistaclocal failed
00:49.32Twingyhrm
00:49.34Twingywhat OS?
00:49.36CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (define.h struct.h tie.c tie.h): Added licensing info to libtie files.
00:50.53archivistdebian sarge the noo one
00:51.11Twingyit's wanting SDL for ADRT the new realtime raytracer
00:51.37TwingyI suppose I can have it skip ADRT if configure cannot find SDL on the system..
00:51.47TwingyI think SDL comes standard with redhat now
00:52.10Twingyarchivist, are you familiar with SDL?
00:52.14archivistor tell user to fetch it
00:52.18Twingyyah
00:52.20archivistno
00:52.30Twingylibsdl.org
00:52.49Twingylemme poke the configure.ac
00:54.57Twingydo you have sdl-config on your machine?
00:55.35archivistdunno
00:55.40Twingyfine out :)
00:55.45Twingytype "sdl-config"
00:55.47Twingy*find
00:57.22archivistnope
00:57.25Twingyk
00:57.38Twingyfor now just grab sdl 1.2 and install it
00:57.53Twingyyou can obtain it via aptget I think
01:01.45Twingyk?
01:02.28``Erikconfigure.ac isn't the place to put that, it needs the m4, period... the autogen.sh machine needs sdl.m4, period
01:02.43``Erikdid I repeat myself enough? :)
01:03.20archivistcommand not found for aptget on this box, they want one to use the new synaptic thing (which in this case doesnt know about the web on this box)
01:03.31Twingyso ... you want to include it in the distribution or enforce it must be installed on all users machines?
01:04.08``Erikwhen the dist gets build, the m4 data is in the thing... dist tarballs are ok and don't need sdl installed on the box... only the machine running auto* has the requirement
01:04.40Twingyso in archivist's case we'll just enforce that he needs libsdl installed
01:04.46``Erikindeed
01:04.57``Erik(apt-get, not aptget)
01:05.04Twingyarchivist, talk to erik, I only know slackware and redhat
01:06.38``Erik(apt-get install libsdl-dev)
01:08.51archivistits coming
01:10.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/ (8 files): Added licensing info to libtienet files.
01:21.04archivistgoing forrunning make again i get the following configure.ac:110 required file misc/config.guess not found also misc/config.sub and misc/ltmain.sh
01:21.19Twingyerm
01:21.22Twingydo an autoreconf -vis
01:21.25Twingyerr
01:21.27Twingy./autogen.sh
01:21.37archivistok
01:23.11archivisti need a faster box
01:23.48Twingyhehe
01:24.05Twingygot got a couple dual cpu dual core 2ghz opterons with 8GB coming in in 2 weeks
01:24.27Twingyone of those should compile brlcad in under 4 minutes
01:24.49archivistmine is a dual 300meg pentium2
01:24.55Twingyouch
01:25.00Twingyyou're doing make -j3 right?
01:25.23archivistno
01:25.30Twingywhat are you doing?
01:25.56archivistjust make
01:26.35Twingypunk
01:26.42Twingyall I had was quesadillas
01:26.55brlcadbig thing of "premium" sake too..
01:26.56brlcadyum
01:27.24TwingyI fixed samba today
01:30.03brlcadarchivist: it sounds like you probably got a partial set of cvs commits at some update
01:30.14Twingyo.O
01:30.21Twingy*boom*
01:30.34CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (10 files): Added licensing info to libutil files.
01:30.58brlcadTwingy: you do know that there is a script that will add the header for you?
01:31.07brlcadsh/header.sh
01:31.08TwingyI figured there was
01:31.25Twingydoes it operate on files with existing header info?
01:31.36brlcadyes, should
01:31.54Twingycause I had no standard when creating the header stuff
01:32.02Twingyso some of them have cvs stuff, some don't etc
01:32.10brlcadread the header.sh header for examples how to run it
01:32.56brlcadbasically sh/header.sh LGPL some_file.c
01:33.13brlcadcouple that with find and you can do batches at onces
01:33.34brlcadthere's also footer.sh
01:34.11Twingyhrm
01:34.16Twingyit doesn't do author and purpose does it?
01:34.25brlcadno, just the license header block
01:34.29Twingyah
01:34.38Twingywell I'm just doing a cut and paste and editing descriptions for each one...
01:34.45Twingyso...
01:35.01brlcadheh, running the script once would still be faster :)
01:35.21brlcadit does the file T I T L E . C expansion thing too
01:35.32``Erik(also, using an editor that could do multiple buffers with shared clipboards, etc... but... :)
01:35.59Twingy*shrug* I don't see the big advantage
01:36.27brlcadthe big advantage?  you've spent how many minutes cut and pasting now?
01:36.43Twingymostly editing description stuff
01:36.46brlcadI did all 5000 or whatever existing files in less than a minute
01:36.51Twingyyes
01:36.55Twingybut did you enter descriptions for all of them?
01:37.04Twingy"This is librt it contains functions that do blah blah blah"
01:37.32brlcadalready existed, and it prepends or merges with an existing header
01:37.43Twingyyah, see with my stuff it's all in my head
01:37.53Twingy'sides I'm already 20% done
01:38.00TwingyI'll be done in an hour for the entire project
01:38.05archivist./configure elapsed time 4m 25
01:38.16brlcadslow machine :)
01:38.18Twingyarchivist, make sure you do make -j3 when you compile
01:38.28brlcadhe has an smp machinE?
01:38.39Twingyyes
01:38.51Twingyotherwise I wouldn't recommend it o.O
01:38.59brlcadnever know with you
01:39.02Twingythough make -j2 would have a small benefit
01:39.16Twingythanks for that moral booster
01:39.16archivistare but i dont think debian enabled smp
01:39.33brlcadarchivist: that doesn't matter
01:39.35``Erikum, cat /proc/cpuinfo
01:39.41``Erikif two cpu's are listed, the kernel is using two cpu's
01:40.41brlcadcat: /proc/cpuinfo: This ain't no damn linux box
01:40.46archivistonly 1
01:41.12archivistdozy debian install
01:41.37Twingybrlcad, I think you had too much Sake
01:41.44Twingywe're refering to archivist's machine
01:41.55brlcadone can never have enough
01:42.08Twingyuh huh, and who was the one that passed out that night at siggraph? :)
01:42.16Twingywasn't me ;)
01:42.17brlcadit was like 2am
01:42.24Twingyand your point? :)
01:43.05archivistits 2:42 am here and no sake
01:45.13brlcadarchivist: sorry to hear that :)
01:45.58archivistso running plain make as box is brain dead
01:46.12Twingyas box?
01:46.30archivistonly 1 cpu used
01:46.39Twingysux 2 b u
01:47.16brlcadothers should have gone to this conference
01:47.38Twingyif you're interested in solid modeling *shrug*
01:50.21brlcadlots of great papers on mesh generation, mesh healing, segmentation for efficient FEM purposes, lots lots more
01:51.06brlcadthe most exciting to me was a knapsack packing algorithm using simulated annealing
01:52.09brlcadI think I can extend that to arbitrary shapes pretty easily using our ray-based volume computation
01:52.41Twingythe FEM stuff might have interested me
01:53.09Twingyingo will be at siggraph
01:53.18brlcadmultilevel tetra meshes are pretty cool
01:54.06brlcadthe lead of the visible human project was there
01:54.30brlcadclammoring that there needs to be more open source collaboration
01:54.53brlcadthere toolkit was/is apparently open source now too
01:56.32Twingyhrm, I think it's time for some video games
01:57.00CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (13 files): Added licensing info to libcommon files.
01:58.03archivisti think it stime this box finished compiling
01:58.11Twingyheh
01:58.20Twingymight wanna recompile your kernel tonight
01:58.26Twingycut your brl-cad build time in half
01:58.45Twingyor spend $188 on a 1.5ghz walmart pc
01:59.39archivisti do PIC stuff as well
02:00.22TwingyI've got a 16F88 in my rocket control system
02:01.21archivisti use 18f627 for a clock we manufacture and other control thingies
02:01.32Twingyah
02:01.49Twingyyou run it at 32,768 hz then?
02:02.01Twingyor 131,072 hz
02:02.46archivistno its mains controled to force the user to keep it switched on and to time (its in a cigarette display)
02:03.06archivistso use the rc clock at 4mhz
02:03.16Twingyoh, those aren't very accurate :-\
02:03.21brlcadegads!  sdl can't be required to build
02:03.28Twingywhy not?
02:03.34brlcadare you kidding?
02:03.55brlcadsdl is fine
02:04.02brlcadas a requirement to build is not
02:04.04Twingywell, most people will only be sucking down a dist
02:04.13Twingynot the cvs archive
02:04.19Twingyso they'll be fine
02:04.19brlcadthat's specifically one thing we do NOT do
02:04.27Twingyhrm?
02:04.28brlcadi.e. make people go get things to build
02:04.47Twingylike I said, if they get a make dist of brl-cad
02:04.50Twingyit'll have sdl.m4 in there
02:04.59Twingyi.e the released version
02:05.13brlcadthe sdl check aborts configure
02:05.16Twingythen they compile and it'll just not use sdl instead of fail
02:05.18Twingyyes
02:05.22Twingycause you're using the cvs version
02:05.32brlcadeh?
02:05.36brlcadthey still ahve to run configure
02:05.42Twingya make dist should include the m4 in the tarball
02:05.47Twingythen when it look for AM_PATH_SDL
02:05.49Twingyit'll have the m4 there
02:05.57Twingyand just say "oh my, you don't have sdl, oh well"
02:06.13brlcadno, it says "you don't have sdl, abort"
02:06.20Twingyyou did a make dist?
02:06.26brlcadAM_PATH_SDL(1.2.0,,AC_MSG_ERROR([Cannot find SDL.]))
02:06.41Twingybecause you're compiling from the cvs repo
02:06.50Twingynot from a make dist tarball
02:06.56Twingyso you're assumed to be a developer
02:06.58Twingynot a user
02:07.02Twingyusers will be using a make dist
02:07.05Twingyright?
02:07.09brlcadno
02:07.17``Erikheh
02:07.17brlcadwell, yes they will
02:07.20``Eriktwiggly
02:07.29brlcadbut that's not how AC_MSG_ERROR works
02:07.32``Erikthat should set a 'I have sdl" variable in the true and send an AC_MSG_WARNING()
02:07.37Twingyjey
02:07.41Twingyop me on #siggraph plz
02:07.45Twingyand riisbot too
02:08.00``Erikno
02:08.05brlcadheh
02:08.37TwingyI dunno
02:08.41Twingyyou two can fight it out
02:09.02``ErikI don't think there's anything to fight about
02:09.18brlcadit's just incomplete checks
02:09.51``Erikthe need to have sdl installed to autogen is expected and I think acceptable, but we do need to fix up the configure.ac so sdl isn't required on the host during ./configure&&make
02:10.14brlcadthe stuff needed for sdl in configure is slightly ugly
02:10.54brlcadlike i said, sdl in itself is fine .. it just shouldn't halt the build if it's not there or there and not a good version
02:11.17Twingysounds good to me
02:11.24brlcadchecking for sdl-config won't be sufficient
02:12.21brlcadthere are actually distros of sdl that don't include it
02:12.34brlcadprobably a bug on their part, but a reality nonetheless
02:12.42``Erikhrm, that's what the m4 that comes with sdl does
02:12.50brlcadyeah, i know
02:12.54brlcadit's a freaking pita
02:13.08brlcadhad to deal with it in bz too
02:13.25``Erikheh, pkgconfig? :}
02:13.41Twingythen just copy&paste from bz
02:13.46brlcadno, just more checks for the libraries/facilities like other libs
02:13.53``Erikthere's so much that sdl-config fu's... :-/ like the cflags/ldflags
02:14.16TwingyI would just not support machines without sdl-config
02:14.20brlcadbz's "fix" is not suitable, their configure.in is rather different
02:14.22``Eriksdl-config on winderz gives some really... interesting... results
02:16.02brlcadyeah, though most of the sdl-config cflag/ldflag stuff usually boils down to an -L/usr/whatever/lib -lSDL -I/usr/whatever/inclue
02:16.04Twingyhrm
02:16.08Twingywish I had a 3d scanner here
02:16.48``Erikand some -D stuff
02:17.15brlcadheh _THREAD_SAFE? :P
02:17.47``Erikreentrant
02:17.58``Erikthread_safe on mac
02:23.06brlcadwonder what actually does on mac
02:23.28brlcadthere's not _THREAD_SAFE declarations in the headers and no libc_r
02:23.50brlcadit's a freebsd'ism afaik
02:24.07brlcador maybe glibc'ism
02:25.13brlcadgah  Preparing build ... aclocal: configure.ac: 1413: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library
02:26.40archivisthehe
02:26.49archivisti know that error
02:27.01``Erik<PROTECTED>
02:27.20brlcadreentrant is the same as thread_safe
02:27.52``Erikin meaning, not spelling :)
02:28.03brlcadtrue true
02:28.57CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (sdl.m4 Makefile.am): add sdl.m4 to unbreak my build
02:29.11Twingyhttp://graphics.stanford.edu/data/3Dscanrep/armadillo.jpg
02:32.12Twingyhrm
02:32.23Twingyply-g doesn't seem to like this .ply
02:32.57brlcadhmm?  i converted several of their ply's just a couple weeks ago
02:33.13Twingy-rw-r--r--  1 justin  justin  6919168 Jun 17 22:34 Armadillo.ply
02:33.21Twingy[justin@borg:~]$ ply-g Armadillo.ply armadillo.g
02:33.29Twingyignoring face with 0 vertices
02:33.32Twingytimes a billion
02:34.03Twingystraight off stanford's site
02:34.30brlcad*shrug*
02:34.39TwingyI'll see if I can make it smarter
02:34.54brlcadthere's a -v verbose and -d debug flag
02:36.04Twingythere's color indicies in this file
02:36.17brlcadahh
02:36.25Twingyso what's the deal with sdl?
02:36.42brlcadwhat do you mean?
02:36.52Twingywe figure out what we want to do behavior wise?
02:37.20brlcadideally, it should test for sdl, and if available it uses it of course
02:37.53brlcadif not available, it falls back to either not compiling whatever needed it, and/or providing an alternate display means in whatever used it
02:38.42brlcadthe autogen.sh is fixed, just had to add the m4 to our m4/
02:40.58archivistit just made iges.g how far through the compile am i
02:41.23brlcadabout 2/3rds
02:41.49brlcadmaybe more
02:41.49Twingyarchivist, you're already out of date
02:41.52archivistdam slow box :((
02:41.52Twingytime to start over
02:42.54archivisthmm 3:42 am
02:44.10brlcadTwingy: you should add everything that was added to the NEWS file, maybe with a short paragraph or two writeup for the next release
02:45.00brlcada single line for each user-visible (non-dev) change since the previous release
02:45.25Twingyfor each change?
02:45.42Twingyhrm
02:45.47Twingymged core dumps on me in freebsd
02:46.29Twingymged and mged -c both core dump :(
02:46.31brlcadpretty much, the previous release notes are good examples to follow
02:46.41Twingyeach change like, every cvs add?
02:46.57Twingy...we added adrt.
02:47.07Twingythat's 1 change
02:47.12brlcadheck no, not every cvs add
02:47.19brlcaduser-visible changes
02:47.19Twingyk, 1 change then
02:47.37brlcadwhich would be the addition of a handful of commands
02:47.42Twingyany clue why mged core dumps?
02:48.00brlcadcore dumps on startup? on file open?
02:48.04brlcadtry console mode
02:48.04Twingyon startup
02:48.11TwingyTwingy mged and mged -c both core dump :(
02:49.20brlcadtry mged -f
02:49.30Twingy[justin@borg:~/src/brlcad/src/adrt]$ mged -f
02:49.30TwingySegmentation fault (core dumped)
02:49.42brlcadgdb --args mged -f
02:49.52TwingyI compiled optimized
02:49.59brlcadthat's fine
02:50.04brlcadstill has debug symbols
02:50.20brlcadyou would have had to --disable-debug
02:50.27Twingy(gdb) run
02:50.28TwingyStarting program: /usr/local/bin/mged -f
02:50.28TwingyProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
02:50.28Twingy[Switching to LWP 100318]
02:50.28Twingy0x285347e0 in pthread_testcancel () from /usr/lib/libpthread.so.1
02:50.28Twingy(gdb) where
02:50.30Twingy#0  0x285347e0 in pthread_testcancel () from /usr/lib/libpthread.so.1
02:50.32Twingy#1  0x2851ff2b in open () from /usr/lib/libpthread.so.1
02:50.34Twingy#2  0x2861f1e1 in glXChannelRectSyncSGIX () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.so.1
02:50.36Twingy#3  0x28642e00 in ?? () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.so.1
02:50.38Twingy#4  0x00000002 in ?? ()
02:50.39brlcadeww
02:50.54brlcadthat's familar
02:51.24brlcadshould only happen if it's linking in the wrong pthread library
02:51.35brlcaddid you add cflags/ldflags?
02:51.39Twingynope
02:51.44brlcadhmm.. sdl-config probably did
02:52.09Twingyneed an account on a fbsd box?
02:52.41brlcadnope, I got a couple
02:52.42Twingyoh
02:52.52Twingyheh, I forgot you have access to ones at work from there
02:52.54brlcaddid you get an account on that power5?
02:53.02Twingynope, no desire to
02:53.03brlcadftp.brlcad.org is fbsd
02:53.26brlcadI got one on both machines, and supposedly 4 tickets to that movie
02:53.35archivistoo just bombed here its in tclscripts lt-btclsh  libbn.so.19 cant open shared library
02:53.44Twingythat sux
02:54.15brlcadarchivist: when did you last build ok?
02:54.23archivistnever
02:54.27brlcadheh
02:54.36brlcadwhich OS is this?
02:54.45brlcaddebian?
02:54.51archivistdebian sarge the nooo one
02:55.06brlcad"nooo" is an understatement ;)
02:55.39brlcadls -la /usr/lib/libbn/.libs/*.so*
02:55.48brlcader, brlcad/src/libbn
02:57.59archivistnot there
02:58.15brlcadls -la brlcad/src/libbn/.libs/*
02:58.22brlcadwhat is there?
02:58.47brlcadsounds like you have a build that's out of sync still
02:59.12brlcadlike you've done builds before and didn't clean up properly or have a clock out of sync or something
02:59.45archivisthehe clock WAS out of sync earlier
03:01.52archivistrm .o for a quick fix in libbn ?
03:04.45brlcadcd src/libbn
03:04.45brlcadmake clean
03:04.45brlcadmake
03:06.23archivistrunning again
03:06.47archivist4 am and i wanna go home
03:07.06brlcadif this is the first time you've built, how did you get the other builds?
03:07.17brlcadused the posted binaries?
03:07.42archivistwho said i had other builds
03:08.18brlcadhm, I thought I remembered you saying you'd run mged
03:08.30archivistno
03:10.41brlcadok
03:14.17archiviststill same error
03:15.49*** join/#brlcad JBdiGriz (~JBdiGriz@adsl-67-120-233-89.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)
03:16.35brlcadhowdy JBdiGriz !
03:16.50JBdiGrizhowdy, I was just looking for you
03:29.30*** join/#brlcad archivist2 (~djc@host217-35-103-47.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
03:30.56brlcadarchivist: how'd it go?
03:33.02archivistit still cant find libbn.so*
03:33.26archivistno erros from the mak in libbn
03:34.28archivistjust setting up the other box so i can copy paste
03:35.47brlcadbut what does it actually make in the libbn directory
03:36.10brlcadls -la src/libbn/.libs/libbn*
03:40.03archivist2-rw-r--r--  1 root root 1977188 2005-06-18 04:38 .libs/libbn.a
03:40.03archivist2lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      11 2005-06-18 04:38 .libs/libbn.la -> ../libbn.la
03:40.03archivist2-rw-r--r--  1 root root     936 2005-06-18 04:38 .libs/libbn.lai
03:40.03archivist2lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      15 2005-06-18 04:38 .libs/libbn.so -> libbn.so.19.0.1
03:40.04archivist2lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      15 2005-06-18 04:38 .libs/libbn.so.19 -> libbn.so.19.0.1
03:40.06archivist2-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 1858391 2005-06-18 04:38 .libs/libbn.so.19.0.1
03:40.37archivistlooks ok
03:41.00brlcadyeah, okay, so it's there
03:41.07brlcadcd src/bwish
03:41.08brlcadmake clena
03:41.13brlcader, clean
03:41.16brlcadand make
03:41.21brlcadthen ./btclsh
03:43.16archivist2portacabin:/home/djc/brlcad/src/bwish# ./btclsh
03:43.16archivist2/home/djc/brlcad/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh: error while loading shared libraries: libbn.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
03:43.48brlcadhrm, libtool bug
03:43.55brlcadls -la .libs
03:44.56archivist2drwxr-xr-x  2 root root   4096 2005-06-18 04:43 .
03:44.56archivist2drwxr-xr-x  4 djc  djc    4096 2005-06-18 04:42 ..
03:44.56archivist2-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 285558 2005-06-18 04:42 btclsh
03:44.56archivist2-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 428812 2005-06-18 04:42 bwish
03:44.56archivist2-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 285686 2005-06-18 04:43 lt-btclsh
03:45.42brlcadtry running: .libs/btclsh
03:46.29archivist2.libs/btclsh
03:46.45archivist4:45 am and its light outhehe wrong window
03:46.56brlcaddoes it give you a % prompt?
03:47.27archivistno an aerror
03:47.51archivist2portacabin:/home/djc/brlcad/src/bwish# .libs/btclsh
03:47.51archivist2.libs/btclsh: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
03:48.12brlcadahh
03:48.24brlcaddid librt build?
03:48.50archivistdunno where to look?
03:48.59brlcadls -la src/librt/.libs/librt*
03:51.32archivist2-rw-r--r--  1 root root 15082652 2005-06-18 03:14 librt/.libs/librt.a
03:51.32archivist2lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root       11 2005-06-18 03:14 librt/.libs/librt.la -> ../librt.la
03:51.32archivist2-rw-r--r--  1 root root      961 2005-06-18 03:14 librt/.libs/librt.lai
03:51.32archivist2lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root       15 2005-06-18 03:14 librt/.libs/librt.so -> librt.so.19.0.1
03:51.32archivist2lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root       15 2005-06-18 03:14 librt/.libs/librt.so.19 -> librt.so.19.0.1
03:51.33archivist2-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 13841082 2005-06-18 03:14 librt/.libs/librt.so.19.0.
03:52.04brlcadi hope that last line was really 19.0.1 ?
03:52.26archivist2yup was my error
03:53.04brlcadhmmm
03:53.37brlcadif you want, I'll debug on it from here if you want to provide up a temp account
03:54.16brlcadsomething is wrong with libtool
03:54.55archivistrouter wont let you in i could reconfigure monday some time
03:55.06brlcadlibtoolize --version ?
03:55.34archivist1.5.6
03:56.10brlcadthat 'should' be okay
03:56.19brlcadbuilt on it just fine before
03:56.47brlcadoh, hrm
03:56.53brlcaddo you have an LD_LIBRARY_PATH set?
03:57.22brlcadset|grep -i ld_lib
03:58.26brlcadunset it if it's set
03:58.43archivisthehe havnt set the kb properly yet cant do |
03:59.00brlcadjust set, and look for it :)
03:59.56archivistheh fount it under~ its not set
04:01.31archivist2set
04:01.38brlcadhm?
04:01.40brlcadit's set?
04:01.56archivist2no
04:02.05brlcadokay
04:03.55brlcadexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/djc/brlcad/src/librt/.libs:/home/djc/brlcad/src/libbu/.libs:/home/djc/brlcad/src/libbn/.libs
04:04.27brlcadsrc/bwish/btclsh
04:04.44brlcadsrc/bwish/.libs/btclsh
04:09.28archivist2<PROTECTED>
04:09.29archivist2portacabin:/home/djc/brlcad/src# bwish/btclsh
04:09.29archivist2/home/djc/brlcad/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.4.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
04:09.38brlcadcool, progress
04:10.20brlcadexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/djc/brlcad/src/librt/.libs:/home/djc/brlcad/src/libbu/.libs:/home/djc/brlcad/src/libbn/.libs:/home/djc/brlcad/src/other/libtcl/.libs
04:12.36archivistooo btclsh> prompt
04:14.51archivistso i run make in brlcad and.....
04:15.21archivist2make[2]: Entering directory `/home/djc/brlcad/src/tclscripts'
04:15.21archivist2../../src/bwish/btclsh ../../src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl ../../src/tclscripts
04:15.21archivist2/home/djc/brlcad/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh: error while loading shared libraries: libbn.so.19: cannot open shared obje
04:16.33brlcadexpected
04:16.41brlcadlibtool still hijacks it
04:17.13brlcadcp src/bwish/.libs/btclsh src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh
04:17.19brlcadmake
04:19.14archivistpermmission denied
04:19.35brlcadeh?
04:19.49brlcadyou can't keep switching between root and djc :)
04:19.56brlcadpick one and stick with it :)
04:20.22brlcadgiven you have root files now, you have to be root
04:20.39brlcadyou generally should not compile as root
04:21.03archivisti did a chown and chgrp -R to set it all to djc and it seems to have gone wrong
04:21.45brlcadyou'd have to chown as root
04:21.47brlcadto djc
04:22.53archivisti did
04:22.57archivist2cp: cannot create regular file `bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh': Text file busy
04:23.29brlcaddid you quit that btclsh prompt?
04:23.41archivist2no just doing it
04:24.04archivist2done
04:24.42archivist2time for a make
04:24.47archivist2?
04:24.54brlcadyeah
04:26.28archivist2../../src/bwish/btclsh ../../src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl ../../src/tclscripts
04:26.28archivist2/home/djc/brlcad/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open shared obje
04:29.53brlcadcp src/bwish/.libs/btclsh src/bwish/btclsh
04:31.22brlcadneed to make that ampi script not occur until install time to avoid this..
04:33.22archivist2i need a better chat client to copy from
04:33.39Twingyhrm
04:36.20archivist2../../src/bwish/btclsh: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open shared object file:
04:36.39archivist2are we chasing a never ending nasty
04:37.21brlcadno, but it'd probably be easier if I dealt with it directly
04:39.50archivist25:40 can i leave it till monday as I need a b it of sleeeeeeeeep
04:40.03brlcadok
04:40.07brlcadthanks for your patience
04:40.17brlcadsorry it's not just working for you
04:40.18archivist2thanks for your patience
04:40.30Twingyhrm
04:40.33archivist2hehe
04:40.37Twingy5:40 is an acceptable time to leavae
04:41.20archivist2im supposed to go out tomorow
04:41.47brlcadarchivist2: monday is fine :)
04:43.38Twingybu_malloc is in librt right?
04:43.41Twingywell
04:43.43Twingylibbu
04:43.46brlcadbu
04:43.50Twingybut does that come with librt.a ?
04:43.59brlcadshould
04:44.06Twingyhrm
04:44.10TwingyI gots some linking problems
04:44.21brlcadwouldn't rely on it in a .a
04:44.26brlcadshould link all three
04:44.30Twingyyah
04:44.36TwingyI think I will
04:44.45Twingydb_walk_tree
04:44.50Twingythat's librt thought right?
04:44.55brlcadyeah
04:45.11Twingyhrm
04:45.23Twingy../../../../src/librt/.libs/librt.a
04:45.28Twingy../../../../src/adrt/libcommon/.libs/libcommon.a(g.o)(.text+0x1175):/usr/home/justin/src/brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/g.c:497: undefined reference to `db_walk_tree'
04:45.42brlcadlibbu is on librt's LIBADD line
04:45.48Twingyah
04:45.57Twingybut I don't understand why it's not picking up db_walk_tree
04:46.01Twingyfrom librt.a
04:48.35brlcadwhat's your link line?
04:49.36Twingyone sec phone
04:49.42brlcad<PROTECTED>
04:50.39brlcadit's a libtool library, you can't just make it through flags
04:50.49brlcadhave to set it as a libadd
04:51.36TwingyI did have in libadd
04:51.43Twingyk
04:51.50brlcadnot the one in cvs
04:52.03Twingynight
04:57.50brlcadautogen runs autoreconf
04:58.01Twingyyah
04:58.09Twingyjust on an order of magnitude more stuff :-\
04:58.10brlcadit takes longer because the configure script is 20x longer
04:58.59brlcadyou shouldn't have to reconf if everything is set up
04:59.12TwingyI'm tweaking Makefile.am's
04:59.14brlcadyou edit the am and it should rebuild itself
04:59.26Twingyto et bu_* and db_walk_tree resolved
04:59.34Twingyhrm
04:59.39Twingydoesn't seem to be the case for me
04:59.41brlcadthat's what I mean -- editing .am's should rebuild the makefile
04:59.47brlcadmake Makefile
04:59.49Twingyyes
04:59.49brlcadmake
04:59.55Twingyit used to do that before I merged into brlcad
05:00.27brlcadit's no different
05:00.31TwingyLDADD = ${top_builddir}/src/librt/.libs/librt.a
05:00.36Twingyin Makefile.am for libcommon
05:00.47Twingyand I still get lcad/src/adrt/libcommon/g.c:497: undefined reference to `db_walk_tree'
05:00.47Twingy*** Error code 1
05:00.47brlcadit should be attached to the build target
05:01.09brlcadlibcommon_la_LIBADD
05:01.14Twingyah
05:01.15brlcadit's not an LDADD
05:02.17brlcadsame goes for the CFLAGS if you want to be correct
05:02.22Twingygcc -D__STRICT_ANSI__ -I.. -I../../../../src/adrt/libtie -I../../../../src/adrt/libtienet -I../../../../src/adrt/libtexture -I../../../../src/adrt/libcommon -I../../../../src/adrt/librender -I../../../../src/adrt/libutil -I../../../../src/adrt/rise -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -O3 -ffast-math -fstrength-reduce -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-frame-pointer -finline-functions -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-commo
05:02.22Twingyn -fPIC -O3 -ffast-math -fstrength-reduce -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-frame-pointer -finline-functions -g -o rise_master dispatcher.o main.o master.o post.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lpthread ../../../../src/adrt/libcommon/.libs/libcommon.a ../../../../src/adrt/librender/.libs/librender.a ../../../../src/adrt/libutil/.libs/libutil.a -lm ../../../../src/adrt/libtexture/.libs/libtexture.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtiene
05:02.23Twingyt/.libs/libtienet.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtie/.libs/libtie.a -lz
05:02.30brlcadotherwise there are issues overriding
05:03.12brlcadyou have to make the makefile firest
05:03.24brlcadotherwise it'll build the target before the makefile
05:03.50Twingyand I do that by typing?
05:03.54brlcadnow you'll have to delete the target too
05:04.08Twingymake clean in libcommon?
05:04.14brlcadsure
05:04.25brlcadthen make
05:04.44Twingy../../../../src/adrt/libcommon/.libs/libcommon.a(g.o)(.text+0x1175):/home/justin/src/brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/g.c:497: undefined reference to `db_walk_tree'
05:05.09brlcadis it on the link line?
05:05.28Twingy../../../../src/adrt/libcommon/.libs/libcommon.a ../../../../src/adrt/librender/.libs/librender.a ../../../../src/adrt/libutil/.libs/libutil.a -lm ../../../../src/adrt/libtexture/.libs/libtexture.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtienet/.libs/libtienet.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtie/.libs/libtie.a -lz
05:05.44TwingyI thought by doing ldadd stuff it's now part of libcommon
05:05.59Twingyas one big honkin archive
05:06.01brlcadit's not ldadd(!)
05:06.06TwingyI didn't do ldadd
05:06.14Twingylib_LTLIBRARIES = libcommon.la
05:06.14Twingylibcommon_la_SOURCES = canim.c cdb.c env.c pack.c unpack.c g.c
05:06.14Twingylibcommon_la_LIBADD = ${top_builddir}/src/librt/.libs/librt.a
05:06.23Twingyk?
05:06.28Twingythat's the stuff yo
05:06.48brlcadheh
05:06.59brlcadthat's probably why
05:07.04Twingyhrm?
05:07.35brlcadnot the right libadd for libtool
05:07.42Twingyk
05:07.53Twingywhat's it want then?
05:07.54brlcadyou've never suppoed to link/think/look at anything in .libs
05:08.06TwingyI do it for performance reasons
05:08.13brlcaddo what?
05:08.18Twingyinclude the .a's
05:08.25brlcadthat's not what I said
05:08.35brlcadyou link static which has nothing to do with the .libs dir
05:08.42brlcadthere's a -static libtool flag
05:08.50Twingy*shrug* I'm doing .libs stuff all over adrt
05:08.59Twingyand it works fine... cept with librt apparently
05:09.00brlcadyeah, and that's completely not portable
05:09.06Twingynot portable?
05:09.12Twingyit works on a bunch of OS's
05:09.15brlcadnot according to libtool in the least
05:09.21Twingy*shrug*
05:09.35brlcadyou didn't read the libtool manual did you
05:09.38Twingynewp
05:09.43TwingyI let erik do all that auto-fu
05:10.03brlcaduse ${LIBRT}
05:10.46brlcadand add -static as an libcommon_la_LDFLAGS
05:12.12brlcadworking on "a bunch of OS's" doesn't make it right, just happenstance
05:12.15Twingymeh, still not working, I'll figure something out, you should get some sleep
05:12.27brlcadthinks only really get different on systems we don't use much
05:12.47Twingy<-- only plans on supporting systems we use alot
05:13.10Twingynobody will be using a realtime raytracer on a vax
05:13.13brlcadwell, brl-cad supports more systems than you :)
05:13.15Twingyor a cray
05:13.17Twingyyah
05:13.17Twingywell
05:13.23Twingylee had the bright idea of shoving it into brlcad repo
05:13.37Twingy*shrug*
05:14.07brlcadmeh, it'll do more for adrt than it'd ever do on it's own
05:14.24Twingyin what sense?
05:14.39brlcadexposure/recognition
05:14.44brlcaddownloads
05:14.54Twingy*shrug* I think a separate tarball would've been more effective
05:15.07Twingyquicker to d/l and compile if anything
05:15.19Twingy12 minutes for cvs checkout and 12 minutes to build versions 1 minute to download and build
05:15.27brlcadperhaps, but the numbers would have been far fewer I bet
05:15.28Twingys/versions/versus
05:15.40brlcadbrl-cad's getting 2-4 thousand downloads a month right now
05:15.46brlcadwith little publicity
05:16.05Twingyyah, but I dunno how many of those people are interested in a realtime raytracer...
05:16.32Twingywe could put the linux operating system in there too, but that doesn't tell me how many people are using linux
05:17.11brlcadsure, but you are getting installed on way more systems so exposure is intrinisically higher than it would have been
05:17.22brlcadand it will be in the documentation, release notes, etc
05:17.30brlcadso people will learn about it, try it
05:17.42Twingyyep
05:23.24brlcadthe only real downside in being included in brl-cad is that adrt will have to build on more systems and more flexibly (e.g. sdl as an option eventually)
05:24.27brlcadthe build time could be cut down with something like what was done for muves --enable-only-adrt-build for example
05:28.54brlcadis the path tracer in there as well?
05:29.36Twingyyes
05:30.10brlcadpeople will probably like that more than anything I bet
05:30.33brlcadsuckers for pretty pictures, no matter what the cputime
05:31.13Twingyk fixed the rebuilding of Makefile
05:31.19Twingyit apparently wanted automake-1.9
05:31.22Twingyand I had automake19
05:31.30Twingyand I always ln -s automake19 to automake
05:31.33Twingyso now I
05:31.37Twingyln -s automake19 automake-1.9
05:31.41Twingyproblem #1 solved
05:31.45Twingyproblem #2
05:31.52brlcadahh, yeah cept there are like 3 automake tools
05:32.00Twingyfuck em
05:32.24brlcadit won't work right if they're not in sync
05:32.37Twingyif I see it complain
05:32.38TwingyI'll fix it.
05:32.41brlcadi mean it "might" work right .. but that would just be luck
05:32.55brlcadi've had that same problem bite me in the ass a couple times on fbsd
05:32.59Twingyright now I need to figure out why these archives are being to god damn bitchy
05:34.49brlcadhow in the world do you get away with using lpthread on freebsd in rise's observer
05:35.03brlcadthat really shouldn't work
05:35.07Twingysure it should
05:35.12Twingythere's like 3 threading models in fbsd
05:35.14Twingylpthread is one of em
05:35.40brlcad-pthread is the switch, however
05:36.05Twingy*shrug*
05:36.09Twingynot a problem right now
05:36.30brlcaddo you actually use pthreads?
05:36.37Twingyof course
05:36.54Twingygrep for pthread
05:36.58Twingyyou'll get tons of code
05:38.23brlcadI'm just surprised it actually doesn't crash
05:38.36brlcadpthread is pretty much required by the libc
05:38.42brlcadlpthread conflicts with it
05:38.53brlcadyou should get a crash like you saw in mged
05:39.39brlcadwicked.. maybe that's why mged crashes on you.. you've swapped out your -pthread lib maybe
05:40.02Twingy?
05:40.15TwingyI'm running a standard fbsd distro
05:40.21Twingynothing fancy schmancy
05:40.26Twingysame config as branch server and shiva
05:40.39brlcadthen yeah, it should crash on you
05:40.40Twingyso if it breaks here, good chance it breaks on shiva
05:40.57Twingywhat should crash
05:41.01Twingyadrt stuff or mged?
05:41.05brlcadadrt
05:41.35brlcadmged works fine on branch server, shiva, etc as of a week ago
05:41.53brlcadregardless, the -pthread vs -lpthread thing is a fairly well known issue
05:42.45Twingyhrm
05:42.51Twingythis is surprisingly annoying me
05:43.10Twingyyou feed it libbu.a
05:43.16Twingyand it's like, no effect
05:43.32Twingyit's working in the opposite way the rest of the libs in adrt are
05:43.50TwingyI say, each libblah.a bitch, and it's like "thank you, problem resolved"
05:43.54Twingys/each/eat
05:44.08TwingyI feed it librt.a
05:44.16Twingyand it's like, "pardon? did you do something?"
05:44.51brlcadi told you, you're not supposed to do _anything_ inside .libs
05:45.05brlcadso it really is your own fault, even if it did work before
05:45.13Twingywell
05:45.15brlcaduse the librt.la on LIBADD
05:45.23brlcadand add -static to LDFLAGS
05:45.58Twingyto rise/master/Makefile.am or libcommon/Makefile.am ?
05:46.02brlcadthat's just how libtool works -- there are platforms that don't perform symbol resolution until you actually install anyways
05:46.25brlcadlibraries use LIBADD, execs use LDADD
05:46.45brlcadboth would need static if you only make static libraries
05:48.05brlcadbasically, everywhere you have .libs/libblah.a, it can be swapped with libblah.la and add -static to LDFLAGS
05:48.42Twingylibcommon_la_SOURCES = canim.c cdb.c env.c pack.c unpack.c g.c
05:48.42Twingylibcommon_la_LDFLAGS = -static
05:48.42Twingylibcommon_la_LIBADD = ${top_srcdir}/src/librt/librt.la
05:49.05Twingy*** Error code 1
05:49.16Twingysrc/adrt/libcommon/g.c:497: undefined reference to `db_walk_tree
05:49.39brlcadthat looks right, cept librt is provided via ${LIBRT}
05:49.57brlcaddude, the error doesn't help -- look at the link line
05:50.04Twingy<PROTECTED>
05:50.05Twingy<PROTECTED>
05:50.05Twingyconfig.status: creating src/adrt/libcommon/Makefile
05:50.05Twingy[justin@borg:~/src/brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon]$
05:50.07brlcadif it's not linking librt, somethings wrong
05:50.19Twingystill aint werkin
05:50.32Twingylibrt is hosered
05:50.46brlcadheh riight
05:51.04TwingyI mean
05:51.06brlcadwhat was the command before that missing line
05:51.09brlcadmake?
05:51.12TwingyI see db_walk_tree via the grace of "nm"
05:51.32Twingymake?
05:51.42brlcad01:50 < Twingy>  cd ../../.. && /usr/local/bin/bash /home/justin/src/brlcad/misc/missing --run automake-1.9 --gnu  --ignore-deps
05:51.42Twingywhat if I just commit what I got
05:51.47Twingyand you poke at it
05:51.51brlcadwhat was the command that did that?
05:52.03Twingythat was from make
05:52.10brlcadwell then that's the problem
05:52.17Twingyhrm?
05:52.24brlcadI said that you have to make the makefile before making the target
05:52.28brlcadseparate steps
05:52.32TwingyI did a make clean
05:52.32Twingymake
05:52.48Twingyor something
05:52.50TwingyI don't remember
05:52.56Twingybut I've done make clean
05:52.57Twingyand make
05:53.01Twingyseveral hundred thousand times now
05:53.03Twingyand same error
05:53.07brlcadso then what's the link line?
05:53.16Twingygcc -D__STRICT_ANSI__ -I.. -I../../../../src/adrt/libtie -I../../../../src/adrt/libtienet -I../../../../src/adrt/libtexture -I../../../../src/adrt/libcommon -I../../../../src/adrt/librender -I../../../../src/adrt/libutil -I../../../../src/adrt/rise -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -O3 -ffast-math -fstrength-reduce -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-frame-pointer -finline-functions -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-commo
05:53.16Twingyn -fPIC -O3 -ffast-math -fstrength-reduce -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-frame-pointer -finline-functions -g -o rise_master dispatcher.o main.o master.o post.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lpthread ../../../../src/adrt/libcommon/.libs/libcommon.a ../../../../src/adrt/librender/.libs/librender.a ../../../../src/adrt/libutil/.libs/libutil.a -lm ../../../../src/adrt/libtexture/.libs/libtexture.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtiene
05:53.17Twingyt/.libs/libtienet.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtie/.libs/libtie.a -lz
05:53.37brlcadI see no librt there
05:53.43Twingyme either
05:53.51TwingyI never added anything to rise master
05:53.57Twingycause I thought libcommon was taking care of this issue
05:54.05Twingy<-- has always dealt with this crap in the binary
05:54.07Twingynot the lib
05:54.16TwingyI used to have librt fu in rise/master/Makefile.am
05:54.18Twingywhen it was standalone
05:54.23Twingynever had to touch libcommon
05:54.42brlcadso what's changed?
05:55.00brlcadit build for me here
05:55.23TwingyLDADD = @BRLCAD_LDFLAGS@ -lpthread ${top_builddir}/libcommon/.libs/l.........................
05:55.28Twingyin adrt standalone
05:55.44Twingy<PROTECTED>
05:55.45brlcadadd
05:55.58brlcadyou're not getting that any more
05:56.15Twingyno kidding :)
05:56.20Twingythat's what I said standalone
05:57.11brlcadlibcommon_la_*=?
05:57.26Twingylibcommon_la_SOURCES = canim.c cdb.c env.c pack.c unpack.c g.c
05:57.27Twingylibcommon_la_LDFLAGS = -static
05:57.27Twingylibcommon_la_LIBADD = ${LIBRT}
05:57.56brlcadgrep LIBRT Makefile
05:58.09TwingyLIBRT = ${top_builddir}/src/librt/librt.la
05:58.09Twingylibcommon_la_LIBADD = ${LIBRT}
05:59.16brlcadstill sounds like the missing didn't rebuild the Makefile right
05:59.24brlcadbecause it's not using the LIBADD
05:59.32brlcadwhich means you ahve to autogen.sh
05:59.35Twingyyep
06:00.29Twingyalliteration, wee
06:00.32brlcadi hope your aclocal and acheader links at least match your automake version
06:00.53brlcader, s/autoheader//
06:00.59brlcadjust aclocal at least
06:01.24brlcadthat could explain the libtool mismatch
06:01.27Twingyautoheader is 259
06:01.40brlcadaclocal, forget autoheader
06:01.44Twingyaclocal is 1.9
06:01.57brlcadand automake was 1.9 too?
06:02.12Twingylrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  25 Jun 17 19:26 /usr/local/bin/automake -> /usr/local/bin/automake19
06:03.36Twingy...post.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lpthread ../../../../src/adrt/libcommon/.libs/libcommon.a ../../../../src/adrt/librender/.libs/librender.a ../../../../src/adrt/libutil/.libs/libutil.a -lm ../../../../src/adrt/libtexture/.libs/libtexture.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtienet/.libs/libtienet.a ../../../../src/adrt/libtie/.libs/libtie.a -lz
06:03.44brlcadthere is a cache option to configure that you can set to make it always use cached values -- cuts the time by a third or better
06:03.57Twingy../../../../src/adrt/libcommon/.libs/libcommon.a(g.o)(.text+0x1175):/usr/home/justin/src/brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/g.c:497: undefined reference to `db_walk_tree'
06:04.07Twingywould you like me to just commit this?
06:04.57brlcadyou sure librt isn't before your .o's or something?
06:05.41Twingyyep
06:05.57Twingyshould rise/master/Makefile.am
06:06.02Twingybe picking up librt from libcommon?
06:06.39brlcadno
06:06.46Twingyokay
06:06.52brlcadoh, that was a link for rise
06:06.55Twingythen why would we be seeing librt on the link line
06:07.33Twingylibcommon compiles fine
06:07.35Twingyrise is bitching
06:07.43Twingythat it doesn't have db_walk_tree
06:07.53Twingyvia libcommon
06:08.02brlcadit's because of the link against the .a instead of the .la
06:08.11Twingyfor libcommon?
06:08.15TwingyI'll try la
06:08.18brlcadfor rise
06:08.23brlcadeverywhere really
06:08.39Twingyso in rise Makefile.am
06:08.41Twingywhat do I need
06:08.53Twingysame thing
06:08.54Twingy-static
06:08.58Twingyand LDADD
06:09.09brlcadto make all the .libs/lib* be lib*.la and use -static
06:09.10Twingyrise_master_ldflags = -static
06:09.44brlcadrise_master_LDFLAGS = -static
06:09.49Twingyyah yah
06:09.56TwingyI'm just tired
06:10.46Twingytesting
06:11.15brlcadlibtool will probably be pissy if the libs are still .a
06:11.41Twingyeverything in rise Makefile is .la now
06:11.56brlcadall the rise makefile's you mean?
06:12.02Twingyjust master to see if it works
06:12.08brlcads/rise/adrt/
06:12.10Twingyif master works I wiggle my nose and everything else works
06:12.42brlcadthat's what I mean -- libtool requires everything to become libtool libraries to work correctly
06:12.59TwingyI have .la's in all those directories.
06:13.07Twingyin all of the libraries.
06:13.13Twingyk?
06:13.17brlcadla's the properly reference the .la's they depend on?
06:13.26brlcador that reference .a's
06:13.43Twingynone of my libs rely on other libs
06:13.46Twingyerr
06:13.50Twingydo add lib crap
06:13.56Twingyjust check out libutil
06:14.00Twingyit's simple
06:14.29brlcadlibcommon at least relies on one :)
06:14.43Twingy"Makefile", line 595: Need an operator
06:14.43Twingymake: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue
06:14.43Twingy*** Error code 1
06:14.43TwingyStop in /usr/home/justin/src/brlcad/src/adrt/rise.
06:14.43Twingy*** Error code 1
06:14.49Twingyfor rise/Master/Makefile
06:14.59brlcadsounds like you typod
06:15.20Twingyah
06:15.27Twingypart of irc buffer got put in there
06:17.16brlcadwopr rox
06:17.36Twingyif you're interested in developing remotely
06:17.52TwingyI have like graphical output and stuff
06:17.58Twingyand need to use keyboard mouse stuff to test
06:20.18Twingyhrm
06:20.23Twingyhow about I commit this and you look at it
06:20.27Twingyoutput is... different
06:21.38brlcadmine compiles right now, so I dunno what you're referring to
06:21.58brlcadso commit if you like, maybe i'll look at it on the train
06:21.59Twingyyours compiles cause you don't have the version where I have g.c actually being used by pack.c
06:22.12Twingycause of a HAVE_BRLCAD define
06:22.15Twingythat existed in the standlone
06:22.18Twingythat now isn't defined
06:22.20Twingyin the new system
06:22.22brlcadah
06:22.22Twingywhich I ended up removing
06:22.25Twingyso I could load a .g file
06:22.27Twingy:)
06:22.29brlcadso make HAVE_BRLCAD=1
06:22.37Twingythen you'd get the same error :)
06:22.47Twingycause that tells it to use g.c
06:22.55Twingyso my removing #if HAVE_BRLCAD
06:22.56Twingyin 2 places
06:23.00Twingyso it's _IN_ brlcad
06:23.04Twingythat would be retarded
06:23.14Twingyit's now just compiling g.c period.
06:23.18Twingyhence
06:23.20Twingyyour version works
06:23.22Twingyand mine does not
06:23.24Twingy:)
06:23.43brlcadyour engrish confusith me
06:23.49Twingyor lack there of
06:23.58Twingycause I hate explaining shit in fine detail
06:24.06brlcadthat's okay
06:24.13brlcadi hate understanding shit in fine detail
06:24.59Twingyautoconf depresses me
06:25.20brlcadit's really quite simple when you stop this hacking crap you keep doing to it
06:26.38brlcadGBS sucks ass, but it's what everyone uses/expects and it does work when used correctly
06:26.40Twingyturn-key :)
06:26.51TwingyGBS?
06:26.57brlcadgnu build system
06:27.03Twingybeat me to it
06:27.05brlcadautoconf+automake+libtool
06:27.31Twingymakes users happier
06:27.34Twingymakes developers bitter
06:27.45brlcadit's also more cross platform
06:27.55Twingyhrm
06:27.57TwingyI need a room
06:28.01Twingywhere I can take sheets of glass
06:28.04Twingyand throw them on the ground
06:28.07brlcadscons would probably be the only alternate worth considering
06:28.11Twingythat'd make me happier
06:28.22brlcada fireplace
06:28.26brlcadwine glasses
06:28.29Twingyhehe
06:28.31Twingyno fireplace
06:28.41brlcadarc-weld one
06:28.46Twingymaybe I'll just make some rocket fuel and blow shit up :)
06:29.06Twingyautoconf has turned me to violence
06:29.52brlcadi think i have a way to fix the tesselator now
06:30.14brlcadand even improve it's performance and guarantee convergence
06:32.09Twingys/pump/pimp
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06:41.11CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (23 files in 7 dirs): fixing linking problems to get adrt to properly link to brlcad.
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12:39.22brlcadclock-: i don't know if you ever saw my response the other day, but the weight e+276 value happens when it ends up using a -1 density
12:40.06brlcadall densities are currently initialized to -1 so when it cannot find the material you set, that can happen
12:40.15brlcadbad behavior, of course
13:09.31clock-brlcad: thanks
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21:59.17CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (45 files in 6 dirs): Added licensing info to libtexture files.
22:18.12CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/ (master/master.c observer/observer.c): put Observer F12 to shutdown master back in.
22:26.09CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/master/master.c: Shotline visualization is working again.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050619

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050619

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13:47.29asdfqwegaI am compiling brlcad from cvs source in Debian Sarge - and autogen.sh is failing
13:48.06asdfqwegaAbout twenty like this:
13:48.09asdfqwegaconfigure.ac:75: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_SUBST
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13:56.26knoppix__hi
13:56.29knoppix__anybody there
13:59.25asdfqwegaI'm here - but I was hoping for sagely advice, not to give it :P
14:00.23learnerhello
14:00.58learnerasdfqwega, sounds like you have a misconfigured set of autoconf/automake/libtool
14:01.12learnerwhat's the version of each of those?
14:03.14learnerknoppix__: hello
14:04.43learnerasdfqwega, in particular, it looks like an old autoconf is getting invoked
14:08.17asdfqwegaFound GNU Autoconf version 2.59
14:08.18asdfqwegaFound GNU Automake version 1.6.3
14:08.18asdfqwegaFound GNU Libtool version 1.5.6
14:09.35asdfqwegaI could have apt'd automake 1.9, but I read something about how versions may not behave the same, so I specified what autogen.sh asked for
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18:29.00CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/rise/master/Makefile.am: erroneous makefile line, Id needs to be in a comment
22:02.52CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/ (master/master.c observer/observer.c): Added rotate about center of rotation holding shift key + right mouse.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050620

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050620

00:04.35*** join/#brlcad ace9109 (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
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00:51.22ace9101anyone know what I have misconfigured if I get the following?
00:51.24ace9101mkdir .libs
00:51.24ace9101gcc -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -o .libs/fbserv fbserv.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so /home/jason/workspace/brlcad/src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so -lc -lpthread /home/jason/workspace/brlcad/src/libpkg/.libs/libpkg.so /home/jason/workspace/brlcad/src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so -ldl -lnsl -lz -lm -lX11 -lXi -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/brlcad/lib
00:51.24ace9101../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `glPixelStorei'
00:51.24ace9101../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `glDrawPixels'
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02:10.54*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
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15:08.38CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: slight reorder since a system rle library may depend on libm, so check for libm first
15:11.16CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: added maintainerclean of makefile.in
15:14.18CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 7 dirs): using -lpthread, -lm, and the libtools .libs contents directly is not portable. changed to use the LIBTHREAD, LIBM defines. also changed to single entry per line for better diff tracking.
15:20.03CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: prefere -pthread over -lpthread on bsd if both are installed, prefer solis threading over pthreading too. pthreading is good default.
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18:07.44learnerdown to only two platforms failing now
18:07.51learnertwo fixed
18:07.52Twingy_for sdl?
18:08.09Twingy_ever think about maybe including sdl source as part of the package?
18:08.17Twingy_...we include tcl/tk
18:08.28learnercounting two different sdl-related errors as one
18:08.54learnerhave thought about it, but sdl is actually quite large
18:09.11Twingy_not as big as tcl/tk
18:09.26learnerwe have tens of thousands of lines of tcl code, we don't have that much sdl code
18:09.38Twingy_I'm compiling a clean checkout of brlcad right now, gonna see if I get the mged core dump here
18:09.47learnerand what's there can be made optional pretty easily
18:09.50Twingy_well, we might if it's there ;)
18:10.37*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
18:10.37*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
18:10.42learneri've wanted to add an sdl libfb interface at some point, maybe a libdm one too
18:10.50Twingy_:)
18:11.29Twingy_the movers haven't come back yet
18:11.37Twingy_I want my new office dammnit
18:12.03learnerbut even then.. i don't think it warrants the 2.5M extra sources just yet
18:12.11learneris he fully out now?
18:12.20Twingy_yes, but not his stuff
18:12.28learnerso, then he's not
18:12.39Twingy_meh, 2.5M is small potatoes considering what's already there >:)
18:12.59learnerthat's 2.5 compressed.. that's a lot of source to have to keep maintained
18:13.22learnerespecially just to pop up a window
18:13.28learnerwhen that's what libfb does already
18:13.29Twingy_*shrug* I'd be happy if we just kept 1.2 there for the next 5 years
18:13.53Twingy_but sdl could replace libdb and handle a bunch of other stuff like sounds/joystick/...
18:14.02Twingy_err fb
18:14.04learnerwould probably be easier to wrap a libdm window into adrt instead
18:14.20Twingy_does it do event handling for me?
18:14.35learnersome
18:14.47Twingy_and hardware blitting/double buffering etc?
18:14.57learneryep
18:15.12Twingy_joystick support with rumble support? :)
18:15.48learnerthat's not a good motivation to pick up the entire lib
18:16.14learnercould just as easily yoink the 2 files in sdl that provide rumble for that
18:16.18Twingy_*shrug* I'd just make it optional right now
18:16.48Twingy_the build that is
18:16.58Twingy_and if ya don't have sdl then it just doesn't build
18:16.59learnerthat's what's being done
18:17.05Twingy_yah
18:17.17learnerthat's just not working yet either
18:17.47Twingy_I can see a bunch of analysts going in the near future "ya know that demo you were doing for stryker that does that interactive stuff, what do I need to do that"
18:17.57Twingy_and I can see alot of people needing sdl installed on their boxen
18:19.13learnerlike i said, for that, it would probably make more sense to make adrt use a libdm interface
18:19.15Twingy_I figure I'll just run around do the 4 or 5 people and install sdl on their boxes, no biggie
18:19.42Twingy_for development support alot more people are familiar with sdl than they are with libdm though *shrug*
18:20.00Twingy_sdl seems more open source friendly
18:20.11learnerfriendly?
18:20.34Twingy_yah, thousands of people are familiar with libdm, a couple dozen are familiar with libdm ... if that
18:20.39Twingy_err sdl
18:20.56Twingy_so if some dudes wanna come in and upgrade the event code then they gotta learn libdm
18:21.15learneri didn't say remove the sdl for libdm
18:21.20Twingy_ah
18:21.29Twingy_you mean have it use one or the other?
18:21.34learnershould be possible to make it switchable at compile-time
18:21.38Twingy_hrm
18:21.44Twingy_that'd require coming up with a wrapper
18:21.49learnerwithout losing features even
18:21.50Twingy_and redoing all the sdl code with the wrapper code
18:22.04Twingy_that could take a few days
18:22.18*** join/#brlcad clock- (~clock@38.38.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch)
18:23.18learnerfor 7.4, probably good with just getting what we have out there as is
18:23.25learnerweed out any other compile problems
18:23.26Twingy_k'
18:23.36Twingy_when do we want to announce 7,4?
18:23.53learnerheh
18:24.04learnerit's going out at the beginning of next month
18:24.09Twingy_k
18:24.29Twingy_we should try and get a slashdot post for it
18:24.53learnermonthly releases, effective code freeze around the last couple days at the end of a month until a release is posted
18:25.28learnercan try, but it'll be a hard one to get accepted
18:25.53learnerwindows support would probably have a better chance
18:26.14learneran image gallery would help make a post
18:26.48Twingy_mebe I'll burn a few cycles making "pretty" pictures
18:27.01learnerI didn't announce last months changes (half on purpose) so the change list for 7.4.0 is going to be pretty big
18:27.37learnerneed the news writeup before too long, though, on just what was added
18:27.55Twingy_k, maybe I'll start on that wednesday
18:28.05learneryour stuff definitely deserves a paragraph or two of description
18:28.30learner(in addition to the single lines)
18:29.02Twingy_I still got a bunch of code that needs done by jul 12
18:29.13Twingy_so I'll try and make time avail.
18:29.31learnergonna make some brl-cad shirts for siggraph
18:29.46Twingy_aight
18:30.22learneri don't mean like blender for handing out.. just a handful -- want one?
18:30.42Twingy_polo?
18:30.46learnerpolo, tee, or tank
18:30.56Twingy_I wouldn't mind a polo
18:32.49Twingy_hrm
18:32.56Twingy_make install is doing something bad
18:33.48Twingy_ah
18:34.16Twingy_sigh
18:34.29Twingy_you have to leave the directory in the same place from star to finish auto to install
18:34.41Twingy_building from nfs is sooo slow :(
18:35.08learnerwhere all are there sdl components?
18:35.16Twingy_in the source?
18:35.22learnerright
18:35.31Twingy_about 5 or 6 files
18:35.39learnerigvt/master and observer, libutil, rise/observer ?
18:35.41Twingy_rise/master/master.c rise/slave/slave.c
18:35.48Twingy_igvt/master/master.c igvt/slave/slave.c
18:35.55Twingy_libutil/displa.c
18:36.00Twingy_libutil/display.c rather
18:36.15Twingy_that's mainly it
18:36.17Twingy_err
18:36.21Twingy_replace slave with observer
18:36.30learnerso what should it not build if sdl isn't available?
18:36.35Twingy_ah
18:36.36learnereverything?
18:36.40Twingy_just do't build the whole package
18:36.46Twingy_just print like...
18:36.54Twingy_NOT BUILDING ADRT, GET SDL FROM libsdl.org
18:37.10learnerthat's what I mean though.. is there anything that could be built without it?
18:37.35Twingy_not really
18:37.47Twingy_nothing useful anyway
18:37.52learnerk
18:38.16learnerit'll be treated like librtserver then, which needs java
18:38.22Twingy_k
18:38.26learnerno java, skips it
18:38.43Twingy_configure will search for it though right?
18:38.49learnerright
18:39.04Twingy_aight
18:39.47learnergoing to be a fair amount of extra checking to be certain, but easy enough to add
18:40.00Twingy_k
18:40.32learneras for the pthread thing..
18:40.55learnerit should prefer -pthread now over -lpthread
18:40.56Twingy_if it aint broken don't fix it? *shrug*
18:41.04Twingy_for beastie?
18:41.12learneroh it was broken
18:41.18Twingy_hrm?
18:41.22learnerbuild failures on bsd boxes without -lpthread
18:41.32Twingy_ah
18:41.38learnerdefault is just -pthread
18:41.44Twingy_so it likes -lpthead :)
18:41.52Twingy_-lpthread
18:42.04learnerthey're the same interface, so it should just be a matter of recompiling and not mixing the two
18:42.21Twingy_you gonna make a $pthread var?
18:42.26Twingy_so it uses the right one?
18:42.28learnerthere already was one
18:42.32Twingy_ah
18:42.34Twingy_good deal
18:42.43learnersame for -lm
18:42.47learnernot all systems have one
18:42.51Twingy_k'
18:47.10Twingy_that way it can throw all kinds of nifty gamma radiation at me
18:47.34Twingy_and I can mutate into something cool... like a ... bar of soap
18:56.45Twingy_hrm, almost done
18:57.08Twingy_Making all in db
18:57.08Twingy_../src/conv/asc2g world.asc world.g
18:57.08Twingy_Segmentation fault (core dumped)
18:57.08Twingy_*** Error code 139
18:57.16Twingy_o.O
18:58.19learnertry just "rt"
18:58.26Twingy_hrm?
18:58.32learnersrc/rt/rt
18:58.33Twingy_this is in compilation
18:58.52Twingy_[justin@shiva:/r/cluster/justin/brlcad]$ ./src/rt/rt
18:58.53Twingy_[justin@shiva:/r/cluster/justin/brlcad]$
18:59.00Twingy_\/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: /r/cluster/justin/brlcad/src/rt/.libs/lt-rt: Undefined symbol "rt_verbosity"
19:00.07learneris this a clean build?
19:00.09Twingy_no rush on that previous error ... adrt builds and installs
19:00.16Twingy_yah, just checked out from source farge
19:00.38Twingy_I could try building again, but it'll take some time
19:00.42learnersend me your config.log file
19:00.54Twingy_email?
19:00.59learneri'll try building there too
19:01.01learnersure
19:02.22learnerheh
19:03.43Twingy_emailed
19:04.52learnershould make a shirt with the detailed humvee rendering on the back
19:05.45learneror better yet.. the m1a1 or t72 :)
19:12.05Twingy_ah
19:12.10Twingy_not the stryker mgs? ^_^
19:12.19Twingy_walk around with sensitive material on our shirts
19:12.20Twingy_heh
19:12.49Twingy_could do m1a2 I got or something
19:13.06Twingy_i think an external rendering of the mgs might not be prohibited
19:13.14learnerstryker's a bit fugly
19:13.27Twingy_hehe
19:13.39learnera classic tank is pretty sexy
19:13.42Twingy_we should get shirts with electronic ink that have animations on them going
19:13.54Twingy_my shirt is raytracing at 1k rays/sec
19:14.06learnerheh, distributed :)
19:14.09Twingy_yes
19:14.12learner"this box of shirts..."
19:14.13Twingy_via bluetooth
19:14.23Twingy_and a watch battery connected to a PIC
19:14.32Twingy_talk about the geekiest shirt ever
19:14.33learnerlike the distributed palm thing they did in san diego
19:14.37Twingy_yah
19:14.46Twingy_I should port ADRT to the PIC
19:15.04Twingy_a watch battery would power a pic for months
19:15.12Twingy_and they can push 10 MIPS
19:16.05archivistwould that be downhill or uphill
19:20.23Twingy_there would be no hills involved
19:20.33Twingy_archivist, you get it to build yet?
19:22.49archivistno havnt touched it since sat am, just getting vnc up on the box
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050621

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050621

02:38.50*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
02:38.50*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
02:46.10brlcadarchivist: it looks like a bug in SDL's sdl-config command which is used to specify what libraries SDL requires -- it ends up adding libaa.a, which is apparently dependant upon libgpm
02:47.11brlcadarchivist: another user reported that their libgpm libraries had invalid symbolic links after a similar fresh/clean debian install -- did you check the links?
03:58.56Twingybrlcad, you see my msg earlier?
04:00.49*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
04:02.47Twingyhi
04:17.14jrobeyhello
04:29.26brlcadjrobey: howdy.. just figured out what happened
04:29.48brlcadTwingy: yes, it was a change from a day or two ago -- i'll fix it tomorrow
04:30.16brlcadyou can work around it by setting the brlcad root to /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0
04:33.19Twingyk
04:34.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/rise/master/master.c: Added tenths of a percent to rise progress.
04:41.11jrobeyk, thanks
04:41.23jrobeyhowdy back atchya
04:43.16jrobeyso, setting BRLCAD_ROOT=/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0 should help?
04:43.30brlcadshould, haven't tested it
04:43.49jrobeyk, I was just making sure I had the right variable
04:43.56jrobeygiving me the same thing
04:44.08jrobeyand it tab completed so 7.3.0 is there
04:44.09brlcadis there a /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts ?
04:44.52jrobeyyes
04:45.04brlcadand it still gives the gui error or somethign else?
04:45.21jrobeyinvalid command name "gui"
04:45.38brlcadhrmph
04:45.48jrobeyjason@ice:/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts$ $BRLCAD_ROOT
04:45.48jrobeybash: /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0: is a directory
04:45.48jrobeyjason@ice:/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts$
04:46.05jrobeyjason@ice:~/workspace$ mged
04:46.05jrobeyInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...invalid command name "gui"
04:46.11brlcadunset the root var and try: cp -R /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts /usr/brlcad/.
04:46.20jrobeyk
04:48.13jrobeyInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Unable to find 'html/manuals/mged' within the BRL-CAD
04:48.13jrobeysoftware installed in '/usr/brlcad'.
04:48.13jrobeyThis copy of BRL-CAD does not appear to be fully installed.
04:48.13jrobeyPlease contact your system administrator for assistance.
04:48.14jrobeybu_brlcad_path()
04:48.14jrobeybu_brlcad_path()
04:48.18jrobeydid something new
04:48.29brlcadahh, progress
04:49.05jrobeythis is a good thing, then
04:49.25brlcadcp -R /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/doc/html /usr/brlcad/.
04:50.08jrobeyI have windows!
04:50.10jrobeycool
04:50.24jrobeynow I'll have to pull up the manual again
04:50.32Twingymy house has some windows
04:50.40jrobeyheh
04:50.56jrobeythanks, btw
04:51.03brlcadcool deal, have to fix those two things tomorrow
04:51.13jrobeyk
04:51.23brlcadrestructuring the install paths to play better with the packaging operating systems
04:51.49jrobeyah, like debian
04:51.53brlcaddebian and gentoo folks in particular
04:52.32brlcadand to a lesser extent the bsd folks
04:52.44jrobeynice systems, though
04:53.13jrobeyof course I wouldn't fancy writing the gentoo script, the .deb stuff, and that base apt stuff
04:53.53jrobeyso, now back to rise
04:54.00jrobeyI'll see if I can see the update, now
04:54.50brlcadactually folks already provided the apt/deb stuff for us
04:54.53jrobeystill a no-go on that
04:55.07brlcadthis will help it get out of unstable/testing, though
04:55.10brlcadupdate of what?
04:55.43jrobeyah, cool--I was working w/ twingy on an update of cvs -- wasn't seeing a change just committed
04:55.51jrobeystill not seeing it
04:56.03jrobeymaybe it's just bedtime ;)
04:56.04brlcadhrm, your on anonymous
04:56.09jrobeyah
04:56.16brlcadthat has a delay of up to 5 hours
04:56.35brlcadi'll set your non-anon access
04:56.58jrobeycool, thanks
04:57.22brlcaddone
04:57.35brlcadyou'll have to recheckout/update via non-anonymous
04:58.01jrobeyk, will do
04:58.04brlcador just wait for anon of course
04:58.05jrobeythanks
04:58.12brlcadno problem
04:58.20brlcadjust be sure to read hacking if you plan on commiting anything
04:58.35brlcaddon't break anything ;)
04:58.35jrobeyk, will do--plan on read-only for a while
04:58.39jrobeyheh, for sure
04:59.13jrobeyI've been developing in Java for so long, I don't think I could make a successful change--feel like I'm going to school all over again
04:59.30brlcadhey, there's a java interface as you discovered ;)
04:59.37brlcadit could use improvements
04:59.52jrobeyyeah, I'll be playing with that--and would love to make things better
05:00.11brlcadmaybe even a proper java app or two have been discussed
05:00.24jrobeylooking to integrate some of these tools into a project for school
05:00.45brlcadoh?
05:00.59jrobeywell, I've got a fair bit of gui development experience in Swing, AWT, SWT, and OpenGL in java
05:01.34jrobeyyeah, I'd like to use some of the geometry stuff and ray tracing in a simulation for autonomous, copettitive agents
05:01.52jrobeytry to build the simulation side and then the robotic side for some simple agents
05:01.56brlcadI ran your agent app
05:02.00jrobeyproof of concept for a visual language
05:02.05jrobeycool, which one?
05:02.10brlcadat least one of them
05:02.10jrobeyShapeUp probably
05:02.29brlcadone you were working on with Brian
05:02.49jrobeydid it have bubbles with links or a fault tree thing
05:03.04jrobey?
05:03.20brlcadthere was battlefield agents moving around, various graphs of their fitness, etc
05:03.29jrobeyah, CoRBCAM
05:03.33brlcadyeah, that's it
05:03.34jrobeyprobably an old run
05:03.43jrobeythat was using RePast--have made some improvements
05:03.50jrobeybut the gui isn't fully there yet--
05:03.54brlcad:)
05:03.59jrobeymostly sim redesign for event based stuffs
05:04.12jrobeyyeah, that gui was somewhat embarrassing
05:04.31jrobeybasically seeing what I could do with a library from another land
05:04.31brlcadproof of concept stuff often is ;)
05:04.38jrobeyheh, yeah
05:05.05jrobeyhey, what IDE do you use for C/C++ development?
05:05.19brlcadEmacs
05:05.27jrobeyheh, cool
05:05.56jrobeysomehow I skipped that--used vi a lot and a nice little split screen editor on VAX/VMS
05:06.02jrobeynow I use eclipse mostly
05:06.24brlcadahh, yes eclipse is progressing
05:06.37Twingynano baby
05:06.38jrobeyyeah, its nice lately-even does ruby
05:06.43jrobeyheh, cool
05:07.02jrobeyi don't think I've ever used nano
05:07.08jrobeyhave it installed, though
05:07.26brlcadnobody except Twingy programs with nano after any length of time..
05:07.37brlcadhe's really stubborn for some reason to learn a real editor
05:07.39jrobeyI've written a few editing plugins in eclipse
05:07.40jrobeyheh
05:07.53jrobeyI know a few like that
05:08.38brlcadeclipse is one of the few gui editors I would consider, but I'm fairly experienced and efficient with emacs
05:09.17brlcadIf I stick to just a single language, the choices narrow a bit too
05:09.18Twingysomething about an editor being more than 100kB just seems wrong :P
05:09.18jrobeyyeah, I can understand that--would take me a while to become as proficient in anything else as I am in eclipse
05:09.50jrobeyheh, we had a tech lead who thought the same, and wrote an editor that was small and quick
05:10.00jrobeysomeone bought it for too little and now he can't use it
05:10.04jrobeylegally
05:10.22brlcadthat usually means featureless too
05:10.33jrobeycvs.sourceforge.net    /cvsroot/brlcad?
05:10.35Twingyyou mean like having a dishwasher in your car?
05:10.38Twingy*pass* :)
05:10.58jrobeyyeah, he was pretty proud of the multiple paste buffers that were implemented and bound to different keys
05:10.59brlcadso uninformed :P
05:11.00jrobeylol
05:11.16brlcadjrobey: yes, that's the root
05:11.27jrobeythanks
05:11.39brlcadcvs.sf.net works too
05:13.23jrobeyk
05:13.29jrobeygetting the latest now
05:14.35jrobeyk, well, I'll leave that running for a bit--thanks for the help and Twingy: I'll render the high-detail after everything is down and built
05:14.45Twingyheh, have fun
05:14.54jrobeythanks
05:14.56jrobeylaters
05:14.57Twingyget yourself some render nodes :)
05:14.59Twingylater
05:15.06jrobeyheh, WILCO
05:15.13*** part/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
05:15.22Twingyall your render nodes are belong to me
05:16.26brlcadhave you benchmarked the performance quantitatively yet of either the path or ray tracer?
05:16.35brlcadi.e. exact same setups, same output
05:16.44Twingyon what?
05:17.10brlcadon the path and ray tracer
05:17.32Twingyerm, a few hundred times over the past 15 months
05:17.39Twingybut stuff keeps changing
05:17.45Twingyso the numbers don't mean much
05:18.05brlcadsame setups that produce the same output?
05:18.11brlcadi hadn't seen that yet
05:18.29Twingythe path tracing better not produce the same results...
05:18.34Twingyit's a convergence
05:18.37brlcadwell that one yes
05:18.52brlcadit would just be time for that one, but for the other it should be possible
05:18.52Twingyand I tossed phong out a while back
05:18.57Twingyjust doing lambertian shading right now
05:19.00Twingyso...
05:19.09Twingyand my geometry files keep changing
05:19.24Twingycause I get bored of looking at the same thing mainly
05:19.28brlcadso...
05:19.30brlcadyou haven't
05:19.34Twingycorrect-o
05:19.41brlcadk
05:19.59TwingyI suppose once it gets used for something other than pretty pictures I might do something like that
05:20.09Twingyuntil then.. no point
05:23.00brlcadno point?  it would be a quantitative metric, makes for a much better selling case
05:23.14Twingycase for...?
05:23.29Twingypretty pictures are an analogue thing...
05:23.53brlcadcase for being able to tell people that it's actually faster than X
05:24.12Twingyah
05:24.13brlcadit's come up a couple times when discussing with others
05:24.16Twingywell whip up 2 humvee's
05:24.24Twingythrow the cameras at the same angle
05:24.27Twingyand shoot some rays...
05:24.28brlcadI'm not looking to do it
05:24.33brlcadi was just wondering if you had
05:24.39Twingywell I mean for the people who are interested
05:24.42brlcadsince it's what youv'e been working on after all
05:24.54TwingyI did it once a blue moon ago
05:25.03Twingyabout a year ago
05:25.08Twingyit was something like 21x faster at that time
05:25.19Twingylike 4.5 minutes for rt and 18 seconds or something for rise
05:25.26Twingy640x480 or something
05:25.32brlcadthat wasn't the same model, iirc
05:25.39brlcadand not the same output
05:25.39Twingyyah it was
05:25.43Twingythe humvee was a bot
05:25.55Twingythey were both based off the same dxf file
05:26.16Twingyand I had the cameras to within a degree of each other
05:26.23Twingyand rounded the speedup down in favor of rt
05:26.41Twingyboth doing flat shading
05:26.48Twingyso it wasn't benchmarking render code
05:27.06brlcadit's close, but still not quantitative
05:27.15Twingyexactly, but close is all we need here
05:27.30Twingygives you 2 significant figures
05:27.33brlcadyou've got to be kidding.. ??
05:27.35Twingythat's all you really need for comparisson
05:27.47Twingywhen people go, how fast is Product A over B
05:27.53Twingyyou tell them 2.1, not 2.124981295
05:27.59Twingythe brain doesn't work that way
05:28.29brlcadyeah, but if it can't even produce the same output, it's not the same comparison
05:28.41Twingyright, but it's close 'nuff
05:28.41brlcadno matter how close
05:28.52Twingythat's why I give a *rough* estimate
05:28.58Twingynot 5 signif figures
05:29.16Twingyso when joe blow runs the app on X geometry they can expect roughly a Y performance improvement
05:29.59brlcadmore direct would be a csg tank vs a sufficiently polygonalized version that produces the same pixel output
05:30.23Twingyyah, that'd be kinda interesting, haven't done any csg vs. polygon bench's yet
05:30.47Twingythough it's kinda weird trying to pick how many triangles you should tesselate to
05:31.00Twingythat's kinda up to the user
05:31.09Twingywhich makes the benchmark kinda pointless
05:31.12Twingybut neat
05:31.44brlcadthat's why I said same pixel output .. there's a fairly exact threshold that should produce the same pixel
05:31.59Twingyyah, but I mean, who wants to spend several hours on that
05:32.14Twingyjust like cleaning the kitchen floor with a toothbrush... it's not terribly productive
05:32.35Twingymaybe a good job for a summer student
05:32.37Twingyhrm...
05:32.40Twingyyou've got me thinking now
05:33.00brlcadI disagree that it's not worth while -- that's what's being proposed for an ultimatel replacement
05:33.20brlcadmight as well test exactly what that is, though I suppose it will sort of settle out of the muves integration
05:33.50brlcadhey, speaking of student..
05:33.50Twingyreplacement? eek
05:33.59TwingyI don't think it should ever become a replacement
05:34.04brlcadi heard one came in yesterday
05:34.11Twingyyah, I got one of em in my office
05:34.11brlcadthat yours or mine?
05:34.22TwingyI'm not supposed to have any
05:34.26TwingyI'm just baby sitting for lee
05:34.41brlcadwell, you're sitting on one, and I got the other
05:34.53brlcadso is that one yours or mine? :)
05:34.54Twingyfor this week anyway
05:35.05Twingythe one I got lee told me to look after for a week
05:35.17brlcadah, hrm.. that's different then
05:37.10Twingymy new gps arrived today :)
05:37.15Twingygood stuff
05:37.57brlcadwhat's the resolution?
05:38.05brlcadstable numbers?
05:38.57Twingyhttp://www.garmin.com/products/etrexVista/
05:39.17Twingybuilt in compass and altimeter
05:39.43Twingygps altimeter is worthless and gps compass is worthless unless moving
05:40.13TwingyHarmon mean computation for earth geode is crappy way to get altitude from sattelite :(
05:40.53Twingygot the suction cup window mount
05:41.07Twingyand a splitter for the lighter along with the dc adapter for car
05:41.19Twingythe backlight is handy for night driving
08:18.45*** join/#brlcad clock- (~clock@38.38.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch)
08:25.13*** join/#brlcad clock-_ (~clock@97.205.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch)
13:48.27*** join/#brlcad plaincad863 (~40662dfb@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:49.42plaincad863Has anyone been able to get BRLCAD to run on later issues of Fedora?
13:53.19*** join/#brlcad plaincad863 (~40662dfb@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:32.25archivist_"add please have patienceengravamet.co.uk
14:34.35archivist_oops wrong keybord ignore
14:36.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
14:45.49*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@drs-15-143.psl.nmsu.edu)
15:56.40*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@drs-15-143.psl.nmsu.edu)
18:14.25*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@c-24-1-105-52.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
18:14.25*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
18:47.55*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@drs-15-143.psl.nmsu.edu)
21:50.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
22:17.35CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Started on util_display_console for use in igvt observer, 25% done.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050622

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050622

00:36.29CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: vers.c is not dependant upon all the sources, just on common and view.c
01:02.29TwingyMakefile.am:22: ONLY_BENCHMARK does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
01:02.29TwingyMakefile.am:29: ONLY_RTS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
01:02.29TwingyUse of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/local/bin/automake-1.9 line 3661.
01:02.29Twingydb/Makefile.am:56: INSTALL_MODELS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
01:02.29TwingyUse of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/local/bin/automake-1.9 line 3661.
01:02.31TwingyUse of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/local/bin/automake-1.9 line 3661.
01:02.40TwingyUse of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/local/bin/automake-1.9 line 3661.
01:03.06brlcadeh
01:03.12Twingydoing a build
01:03.26TwingyMaking all in sh
01:03.26Twingycd .. && make  am--refresh
01:03.26Twingy<PROTECTED>
01:03.27Twingyconfigure.ac: no proper invocation of AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE was found.
01:03.27Twingyconfigure.ac: You should verify that configure.ac invokes AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE,
01:03.27Twingyconfigure.ac: that aclocal.m4 is present in the top-level directory,
01:03.29Twingyconfigure.ac: and that aclocal.m4 was recently regenerated (using aclocal).
01:03.31TwingyMakefile.am:22: ONLY_BENCHMARK does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
01:03.35TwingyMakefile.am:29: ONLY_RTS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
01:04.31brlcadsounds like there's a typo in your configure.ac?
01:04.44Twingyjust did a cvs update -dP
01:04.53Twingyabout an hour ago
01:04.57brlcadand reran autogen.sh?
01:05.02Twingyno
01:05.33Twingyshould I be recompiling the whole package everytime I do a cvs update?
01:05.39brlcadno
01:05.44Twingyk
01:05.56brlcadthat warning is bogus -- not sure what it's from
01:06.24brlcadthere's an AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE in configure.ac (two actually), and ONLY_* do appear in AM_CONDITIONALS
01:06.39brlcadmaybe you had a cvs conflict on update
01:06.46Twingyk
01:07.01Twingyautogen finished
01:07.05Twingyrerunning configure
01:07.17brlcadif autogen finished.. then that warning is even more bogus
01:07.22brlcads/warning/error/
01:08.04Twingyrunning make
01:08.09Twingyoh well
01:08.13Twingymake didn't complain this time
01:08.24brlcadpretty cool.. i have rtarea reporting the exposed and unexposed surface areas
01:08.33Twingyfor rtweight?
01:08.40brlcadrtarea
01:08.44Twingysomething new?
01:09.04brlcadno, it was an old tool that would tell you "area = 123.321"
01:09.23brlcadnow it tells you per region how much is used, and computes unexposed surface areas too
01:09.36Twingyare you evaluating the surface areas by doing the double integral or just firing craploads of rays at it?
01:09.41brlcadlike how much of an engine is presented from a particular view
01:09.57Twingys/you/rtarea
01:10.26brlcadshoots rays at user-defined resolution
01:10.38Twingytake very long?
01:10.53brlcadnot really
01:10.55Twingycool
01:11.02brlcadmuch less time than it takes to render
01:11.02Twingyhrm
01:11.06TwingyI could use that for my rocket
01:11.11Twingycomputing center of pressure
01:11.16brlcadit's just basically a ray bean counter that projects all the way through
01:11.26Twingygotcha
01:12.25brlcaddoesn't do total surface area yet -- just area projected onto the viewplane approximated by the viewgrid size
01:12.51Twingyah, hrm
01:13.01brlcadso it's totally view dependant -- but they use it for something
01:13.08Twingyhrm
01:13.22Twingywouldn't be that hard to make the rays emit from an icosphere
01:13.33Twingythat'd give a uniform area distribution
01:13.47brlcadthe new tessellator idea I have now from the conference should be able to do a fast total surface area calculation
01:13.53Twingyyah
01:14.04Twingytesselated stuff is easy peasy to get surface area for
01:29.26Twingyhrm
01:29.29Twingyyou commit that gui thing yet?
01:37.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add configuration options to enable/disable the proe plugin
01:38.23CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: revert the new data directory location until mged is properly set to search there for the tclscripts and help files
01:38.34brlcadfixed
01:40.06Twingysweet
02:49.15Twingyhrm
02:49.36Twingythis is surprisingly entertaining code to work on
02:49.47Twingyreminds me of the C64
02:50.01brlcadpic?
02:50.07Twingythe console for IGVT
02:50.11brlcadah
02:50.35Twingypress ` while you are running and the console appears ... quake style y0
02:51.01Twingythrow some commands at it, and back to the images you go
02:54.01brlcadthe way it should be
02:54.06brlcadgood stuff
02:54.12Twingyaww yea
02:54.43TwingyI notice
02:54.51TwingyCIA-8 doesn't always post cvs updates
02:54.57Twingycommits rather
02:56.25brlcadyeah, usually means scanline's working on it, doing something to it
02:56.59brlcadthe e-mails still arrive, though
02:57.00Twingythey going or not?
02:57.14brlcadscanline's not
02:57.17brlcadpurple_cow is
02:57.22Twingysgi?
02:57.42Twingypaying for david that is
02:57.57brlcadpaying for most, yeah
02:58.05brlcadthough not sgi
02:58.18brlcadother job/group/something
02:58.27Twingyk
02:59.08Twingyf0shizzle mah command line nizzle
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03:53.30*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || 'brlcad' is attending the 2005 International Conference on Shapes and Solids (Jun 13-17)
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05:06.51Twingysean, you there?
05:08.41brlcadyup
05:09.26TwingyI'm going to tie python into adrt
05:09.40Twingyand I need a ${PYTHON}
05:09.52Twingyand a @PYTHON_CFLAGS@
05:10.21Twingygot any ideas?
05:11.06brlcadnot off the top of my head
05:11.19Twingypython doesn't seem to come with any sdl-config like script
05:11.32Twingyso that could make detection of the include folder tricky
05:12.04brlcadthe library should know
05:12.11Twingyhrm?
05:12.17brlcadcould be checks similar to what I had to do for tcl
05:12.34brlcadyou embedding or just using?
05:12.37Twingyembedding
05:12.42brlcadso what's the library?
05:12.44Twingyas the scripting language for the console
05:12.47Twingy-lpython
05:13.14brlcadthat becomes a simple library check, maybe another one for headers
05:13.36Twingywould it be much effort to add right now?
05:13.37brlcadthe library itself should provide some means to locate it's own scripts
05:14.23brlcadnot too much effort, but it's going to need a slew of testing
05:14.37brlcadwouldn't recommend it for this iteration given there's just a week left
05:14.56brlcadbut if you want to, i can look into it more tomorrow
05:14.56Twingyhrm
05:15.36TwingyI'd like to have a working console by friday for the meeting with the pauls... and it's either spend time writing my own command processor, or just use python...
05:15.48brlcadthe check for the library itself is simple enough to add, so are the headers -- that should be pretty evident to add in the configure.ac
05:16.00Twingychecking
05:16.48brlcadbasically three sections, a header, a library, and a system feature
05:17.05Twingyk
05:17.16brlcadthe "system feature" section will just check the header and library results and enable/disable the feature
05:17.45brlcadyou tested if mged worked?
05:18.12TwingyPYTHONLIB=""
05:18.12TwingyAC_CHECK_LIB(python, deflate, PYTHONLIB="-lpython")
05:18.20Twingyhaven't updated yet, one sec
05:19.19brlcaddeflate isn't a libpython symbol
05:19.39Twingyah
05:19.44Twingyhehe, stole the one from zlib
05:19.52Twingylet me nm for something
05:20.08CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 4 dirs): more additions to the console and beginning to add python interpreter.
05:23.26brlcadhrm .. okay I got some good python tests
05:23.31Twingyoh?
05:23.34brlcadit ain't pretty, but it should work
05:23.36Twingyk
05:24.23brlcadhave to basically invoke the interpreter and ask it where it's stuff is
05:24.23Twingybut everyone seems to gag over perl
05:24.42brlcade.g. python -c "from distutils import sysconfig; print sysconfig.get_python_inc()"
05:24.43Twingyah
05:24.49Twingynifty
05:24.57brlcadfugly
05:25.08Twingynot as nice as sdl-config
05:25.50brlcadthat's one of a handful
05:26.04TwingyI should write, go_take_a_break.sh which runs autogen, configure, and make
05:26.44Twingyerr
05:26.45brlcadi used to have an option to autogen.sh that did that for y ou
05:27.05Twingycvsupdate -dP && ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/local && make -j5
05:27.34Twingy^-- go_take_a_nap.sh
05:27.41brlcadeek, I wouldn't do the -dP every time
05:27.52TwingyI just did a make
05:27.57Twingyand it didn't build anything new
05:27.59Twingyso...
05:28.07Twingylet's see what this make install does for me
05:28.20brlcadhmm
05:28.25brlcadi suspect it won't work
05:28.32brlcadthe search paths are compiled in to libbu and mged
05:28.33TwingyI suspect you're right :)
05:28.43Twingymaybe I'll do a clean build
05:28.48Twingy^-- goto_bed.sh
05:28.48brlcadyou should be able to make clean those two dirs
05:28.52Twingyk
05:29.07Twingyyep, no go
05:29.14brlcadactually.. hrm
05:29.19brlcadit should have worked
05:29.32Twingycleaned libbu and mged
05:29.36Twingycompiling
05:29.47brlcadthat's not the problem.. that's why it _didn't_work.. because it wasn't compiled in
05:30.02brlcaddid make install create a /usr/local/tclscripts?
05:30.19Twingyno
05:30.36brlcadgrep DATA configure.ac
05:30.57Twingy# BRLCAD_DATA_DIR='${pkgdatadir}/${BRLCAD_VERSION}'
05:30.57TwingyBRLCAD_DATA_DIR='${datadir}'
05:30.57TwingyAC_SUBST(BRLCAD_DATA_DIR)
05:30.57TwingySAMPLE_APPLICATIONS_DIR='$(BRLCAD_DATA_DIR)/sample_applications'
05:31.15brlcadgrep datadir src/tclscripts/Makefile
05:31.44Twingypkgdatadir = $(datadir)/brlcad
05:31.44TwingyBRLCAD_DATA_DIR = ${datadir}
05:31.44Twingydatadir = ${prefix}/share
05:31.44Twingy[justin@borg:~/src/brlcad]$
05:31.59brlcadahhh
05:32.14brlcadoops
05:32.18Twingyo.O
05:32.37brlcadit's going to be messy in /usr/local
05:32.46Twingyurf
05:32.48brlcadcp -R /usr/local/share/tclscripts /usr/local/.
05:32.57Twingyk
05:32.58brlcadcp -R /usr/local/share/html /usr/local/.
05:33.02brlcadthat should do it
05:33.14Twingycp or mv?
05:33.20brlcadeither
05:33.24Twingymv
05:33.55Twingyno usrlocalsharehtml
05:34.25brlcader /usr/local/share/doc/html
05:34.47Twingyk
05:34.50Twingyit's werkin
05:36.26brlcadi'll have to work on the interpreter calls later today .. testing for binaries is a bit harder than libs/headers
05:36.36Twingyk
05:36.47Twingyev is slow
05:36.54Twingymaybe I shouldn't have done that
05:39.03Twingyerf
05:39.26Twingymged is choking on this bot
05:41.15brlcadheh
05:41.28brlcadthat was one of the good things I got from the conference that I'm looking forward to implementing
05:41.35Twingyhrm?
05:42.15Twingythis bot is like un editable on mged
05:42.24brlcadtwo algorithms related to very nice tesselation techniques
05:42.25Twingyjust sends mged into like an infinite loop
05:42.29Twingytrying to do a primitve selection
05:42.31Twingyit's goofy
05:42.32brlcadparallelizable even
05:42.53Twingywhy would mged spend so much time
05:42.57Twingychanging a mesh from red to white
05:43.21brlcadnot based so much on the silly repetitive "tesselate this sphere to detail BLAH and figure out what's inside/outside/on an edge" junk
05:43.58Twingyokay
05:44.03Twingyso how am I supposed to rotate this dragon
05:44.09brlcadev'ing a bot gets exponentially worse due to how the tesselator works
05:44.10Twingyif trying to edit it sends it into infinite loop
05:44.22brlcadev isn't edit
05:44.27Twingyforget ev
05:44.27TheLastSpartanI've never heard of ev, Twingy!
05:44.29Twingythat was like 10 minutes ago
05:44.35brlcadheh
05:44.50TwingyEdit->Prim Selection
05:45.14brlcadjust "e blah"
05:45.31TwingyI can draw ply_bot
05:45.45Twingyno problem
05:45.49Twingyediting it is an issue
05:46.03Twingyhrm
05:46.08Twingyl ply_bot was bad
05:46.20brlcadnot too useful for large bots
05:46.30Twingynot usable with large bots
05:46.36Twingyat all
05:46.43Twingyon a 50 gigglehurts computer
05:46.52Twingyhrmmm
05:46.57TwingyI'll have to load this into blender then
05:47.15brlcadtwas the last primitive added with only minimal support.. so yeah, it sucks
05:47.30TwingyI dunno why doing a list on triangles
05:47.43Twingywould take a long time before it started to do anything
05:47.44Twingyyou like
05:47.47Twingyloop through an array
05:47.49Twingyand print
05:47.53Twingythere's no preprocessing
05:48.06brlcad*shrug*
05:48.09brlcadprobably tcl buffering
05:48.32Twingyso much for complaining that mged isn't working :(
05:48.58Twingymight as well
05:49.19brlcaddoesn't sort assemblies alphabetically
05:49.33brlcadfix it ;)
05:49.35Twingyfeed it into qsort?
05:49.41TwingyI already did, adrt :)
05:49.53Twingyjust need to add a geometry adding feature to it now ^_^
05:49.54brlcadthat aint editing
05:50.03Twingywell, I'd rather do that
05:50.14Twingythan try and unkludge somone elses code
05:50.59Twingywe should talk about this tesselation stuff
05:51.08Twingymaybe we can make it the new geometry editor
05:51.15Twingybut having do csg internally
05:51.25Twingyor have a csg representation internally
05:51.32Twingythat way it doesn't lose fidelity
05:52.15Twingythe primitives would get a quick tesselation and shoved into the viewer/editor
05:53.58Twingymmm bed time
05:54.08brlcadtime for me to go home i think
05:54.33Twingyhrm
05:54.36Twingywe need a futon
05:54.38Twingyat work
05:54.47Twingyfor the office
05:55.00brlcadyep
05:55.03Twingymaybe we can find a cheap one and we'll both pitch in for it
05:55.09Twingybet we could find something decent for under $100
05:55.12Twingyat ikea
05:55.16brlcadprolly
05:55.25Twingywith pillow and blanket
05:56.02TwingyI wish they'd turn that wash closet into a shower
05:56.25Twingya tiny shower would rock
05:56.33brlcadyeah
05:56.37Twingymaybe we can ask lisa
05:56.47Twingysince we have people that exercise and stay over night and stuff
05:56.54Twingyit's already got the plumbing
05:57.07Twingyjust a matter of paying $1k for somone to come in and install something
05:57.38Twingyanywho
05:57.43Twingylaundry is done
05:57.43Twingylater
05:59.12brlcadlater
06:21.38CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: this should really use bu_units_conversion() and bu_units_string()
06:24.52CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtscale.c: sting the string typo
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16:16.30TeppyHey guys, I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me. I'm Andy Tepper, designer for A Tale in the Desert...
16:17.34TeppyI'm working on a new MMORPG based on "Tales of Alvin Maker", a series of books by Orson Scott Card, and I'm exploring the use of CSG for a part of that project.
16:23.20TeppyIf anyone here can answer a few questions about whether brlcad would help with my project, just chat - I'll idle for a bit.
16:27.19archivistyeah do lurk a while ppl here do reply later when they are able
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18:43.19brlcadhmm
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22:31.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: (log message trimmed)
22:31.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: Shazam. This makes a fairly extensive improvement (pretty much a rewrite) of
22:31.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: rtarea to report both the presented and exposed area projections for both
22:31.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: regions and assemblies. The regions are sorted alphabetically, the assemblies
22:31.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: are indented by maximum encountered visitation depth (which isn't the same as
22:31.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: the construction hierarchy, but good enough for organizing the list somewhat),
22:31.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: and the number of hits are reported as well. more work is needed to alphabetize
22:32.42CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtarea.1: document the new rtarea output including details on the difference between presented and exposed surface areas, this implements sf request 1225052 from dwaynelk
22:56.26CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: refactor the printing of region areas to a function
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23:08.16*** part/#brlcad cad747 (~51a5a039@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:13.24CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: refactor the two assembly book-keeping functions into just one using the area type enum type. also fix the previous refactoring's count of region encounters.
23:15.44Twingyrdy for some python? :)
23:33.58CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: refactor the two assembly printing sections into one function, print_assembly_area_list
23:36.45archivist_indistinct error msg:  error: source directory already configured; run "make distclean" there first
23:36.45archivist_<PROTECTED>
23:37.55archivistin /configure btw
23:52.03Twingysean, you mind if I commit now?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050623

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050623

00:05.09brlcadTwingy: of course if it's going to break the build .. not ready yet for configure.ac changes
00:06.30brlcadmove adrt from SUBDIRS to DIST_SUBDIRS in src/Makefile.am and you could
00:06.44brlcadsince that would make you have to cd src/adrt && make
00:07.13brlcadarchivist: what were you trying to do
00:07.36brlcad"there" is the source directory .. i.e. the directory with all the sources ;)
00:08.03Twingyk
00:09.41*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
00:09.46Twingyhi jason
00:10.27jrobeyhello
00:10.59jrobeyI had a question on rise--wondering if you could walk me through it again
00:11.27jrobeyI had it running at work all day yesterday and didn't see any progress indicators in master, slave, or observer
00:11.52jrobeythought I might be setting it up wrong--especially since my computer wasn't churning madly away at anything
00:12.10jrobeyhope all is well on the east
00:12.21Twingyhrm
00:12.35Twingyyou were seeing progress on your laptop right?
00:12.50jrobeyno, that was what I was running on at work
00:12.54Twingyah
00:13.04jrobeydidn't get a chance to finish the new download until the next day
00:13.16jrobeyI'll start off w/ a cvs update, though
00:13.21Twingyone sec
00:13.24Twingyah
00:13.24Twingyk
00:13.28Twingyyea, get a cvs update
00:13.33TwingyI'm tying in python
00:13.48Twingylemme know when you're done
00:14.04jrobeyoh, and I still have to build ardt separately useing -lgpm, don't know if that is something that is easy to update
00:14.08jrobeyk, cool beans
00:14.20jrobeygoing to look at the java interface tonight in brl-cad
00:14.21TwingyI'd try setting in env.db
00:14.32Twingythe rendering method to ... phong
00:14.40Twingyand see if it atleast spits out a picture
00:14.53jrobeyk
00:14.56jrobeywill do
00:15.06Twingyif it does then set it back to path,1024 or whatever
00:15.27Twingyeventually rise and igvt will both have consoles
00:15.55Twingyshould make them alot more friendly
00:19.29jrobeysounds good--want a java console on top of them?
00:19.51Twingythe console is graphical
00:19.56jrobeycould make it web-deployable
00:19.58jrobeyright
00:20.09Twingythe python console is done on the master
00:20.13Twingyit could be run on a handheld
00:20.16jrobeyah, cool
00:20.16Twingydoesn't require libraries
00:20.21jrobeysweet--very nice
00:20.30Twingyjust ability to network and display pixels
00:20.50jrobeyright, cool--do you have anything that starts up services remotely?
00:21.06Twingyno... mike is working on integrating mpi into it...
00:21.16jrobeythat was always an issue for me--how to get remote machines to work w/out me having to start a process on each one
00:21.21jrobeyah, cool
00:21.24Twingyah
00:21.32Twingywell for clusters we have scripts
00:21.40Twingythat is a simple shell script
00:21.40jrobeyright, makes sense
00:21.43Twingythat uses rsh to login to them
00:21.52Twingyand run it in daemon mode
00:22.16Twingya little tricky to setup, but works great
00:22.23jrobeythe best I've done when we were pooling our actual work computers to run things overnight was a web based deployment where folks had to click on a link before going home
00:22.33jrobeyah, that makes sense
00:22.55jrobeynot very secure in the open I imagine, but doesn't need to be
00:23.39Twingywell, I've not bothered with thinking about security
00:23.52TwingyI'll let somone fork it if they want to do something like that
00:24.13Twingyif somone wants to path trace over the net where latency and bandwidth are crap.. I could see that maybe
00:24.18Twingybut definetly not the interactive part
00:24.33Twingyyour update finish?
00:29.07brlcadjrobey: it's actually krsh -- Kerberized rsh so sans the usual insecurities of rsh
00:29.34brlcadat least in-house
00:29.40Twingyno...
00:29.45Twingyit's rsh
00:30.04Twingythat's why it's in a sandbox
00:30.17jrobeyah
00:30.23brlcadhrm
00:30.33Twingyand yes howard approved this
00:30.33brlcadon shiva, but anywhere else it's not
00:30.40Twingycorrect
00:30.43Twingycause nobody is diskless
00:30.47Twingyand kinky like us
00:30.53jrobeyheh
00:31.03jrobeybbiab--gotta put my burgers on the grill
00:31.08Twingyyou dont update?
00:31.10Twingydone?
00:31.17jrobeyyeah
00:31.19Twingyk
00:31.19jrobeystarting build
00:31.47jrobeylong day--just typed ant three times at the console to no avail
00:33.26Twingyheh
00:41.11Twingyhrm
00:41.17TwingyI still have 16 years of payments left on the house
00:43.46CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Skeleton framework for python integration in place, console 75% done.
00:50.49jrobeybrlcad: do I still need to be copying 7.3.0/tclscripts and 7.3.0/doc/html over?
00:51.56brlcadyes, cept they are in share now, not share/brlcad/7.3.0
00:52.18jrobeyah, k
00:52.23brlcadonly a half-revert until I can finish fixing a couple other issues
00:52.31jrobeyk
00:55.10jrobeyTwingy: I finished update and build and am running at 512 with phong
00:56.47jrobeytop doesn't show anything I recognize as rise or brl-cad in the top 20 or so processes, but I'll let it run for a bit to see if any progress shows--will progress show in the observer?
00:57.46jrobeyalso, can a slave stay up through reboot of master and observer, or should they come down too?
00:58.07jrobeyby reboot, I just mean kill and restart
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01:01.07echristlHello? I was referred here for help installing Brlcad.
01:01.14brlcadhello
01:01.32echristlHi.  I'm running Fedora Core 3.
01:01.40brlcadsorry to hear that, continue ;)
01:01.53echristlI followed the directions on the BRLCAD website for installing.
01:02.07echristlNow all I get is the gui error
01:02.08brlcadthose are probably already a bit out-dated
01:02.11brlcadahh
01:02.15brlcadyou checked out from cvs?
01:02.26echristlyes
01:02.32brlcadbug recently injected, simple fix
01:02.48echristlI like simple
01:02.54brlcadcopy the tclscripts and doc/html directories to the brl-cad root
01:03.04brlcadwhat was  your --prefix?
01:03.11echristl/usr/brlcad
01:03.15Twingyback
01:03.43Twingyjrobey, you're using rise correct?
01:03.45brlcadso, it's mv /usr/brlcad/share/tclscripts /usr/brlcad/. && mv /usr/brlcad/share/doc/html /usr/brlcad/.
01:05.03echristlwould that be /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.3.0/tclscripts ?
01:05.30brlcadahh, you got it from a couple days ago
01:05.31brlcadyes
01:05.36brlcador a day ago
01:05.45echristlday before yesterday
01:05.53brlcadbingo ;)
01:08.24echristlyoohoo!! there it is.
01:08.55echristlNow to see if I can convert all the Pro/Desktop drawings of my airplane to BRLCAD.
01:09.00CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac doc/Makefile.am): complete the 'fix'/revert of the new installation directories back to prefix until mged is updated properly
01:10.16echristlThank you very much, brlcad.  I'm off to find a tutorial.
01:10.21brlcadglad to help
01:10.30brlcadthere are tutorials on the website
01:10.38brlcadan extensive one on mged basics
01:10.56brlcadand a more advanced one as well
01:11.09echristlI'll go there first.  Thank you, again.
01:22.51CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: now the assemblies are sorted too. each depth is independently sorted.
01:38.08CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: rewrote rtarea for region and assemblies support; added sorting and hierarchy support to rtarea. include a paragraph describing/emphasizing the new rtarea changes since they are user-requested
01:42.42CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac NEWS README): bump the revision up to 7.3.1 for a progress marking. technically rtarea is an incompatible update, albeit not binary incompatible
01:56.55jrobeyTwingy, yes, using rise at 512 w/ phong
01:57.29Twingyah
01:57.32Twingydon't feed 512 to phong
01:57.37jrobeystill no status or apparent process
01:57.41Twingythe 512 is paths per pixel only for path tracing
01:58.42jrobeyah
01:58.59Twingyhttp://www.rafb.net/paste/
01:59.02Twingypaste your env.db there
02:08.04jrobeyk
02:09.45jrobeyk, done
02:09.54Twingyurl?
02:10.02jrobeyhttp://www.rafb.net/paste/results/RJaavc39.html
02:10.35jrobeybbiab--dog walking time
02:11.39Twingyimage_size,640,480,40,40
02:11.50Twingyrendering_method,phong
02:39.28*** join/#brlcad jrobe1 (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
02:40.12Twingyhi
02:40.26jrobe1hi, I'm back, updating env.db
02:40.47Twingyk
02:40.56jrobe1oops, I'm logged on twice--how do I get rid of one of these
02:41.05Twingygoto the other one and kill it
02:42.24jrobe1not sure if I can dothat in gaim
02:42.47Twingy*shrug* I never used gaim for irc
02:42.59jrobe1probably a good reason for that
02:43.18jrobe1I do get kicked off a lot
02:43.33jrobe1what client do you use again?
02:43.43TwingyBitchX and Xchat
02:44.05jrobe1ah, yes
02:50.26jrobe1yeah
02:50.42Twingyhrm?
02:52.03jrobe1my phantom just logged off
02:52.31jrobe1I'm running rise, but still no status and my processes seem to always be asleep, but that might not indicate anything
02:53.17Twingyyou made that changed to env.db?
02:53.32Twingylet me login to your box
02:53.55jrobe1yeah
02:54.19Twingyk
02:54.19jrobe1I'm behind earthlink dsl, so I'm not sure that is possible
02:54.23TwingyI'm in
02:54.29jrobe1seet
02:54.31jrobe1sweet
02:54.37Twingygot burlycad there?
02:54.45jrobe1??
02:54.49Twingyon www
02:55.07Twingybtw, you're not using rise_observer right?
02:55.19jrobe1yes I am
02:55.21Twingyeek
02:55.29Twingyit's broken right now
02:55.31jrobe1looking at xchat and rafb
02:55.32jrobe1ah
02:55.34Twingyjust use rise_slave and rise_master
02:55.39jrobe1heh
02:55.39jrobe1k
02:55.48Twingyrise got pushed onto back burner until july 12
02:55.55jrobe1ah
02:56.09Twingyyou should see progress going up now
02:56.20jrobe1I killed that and got scene data received and prepping geometry
02:56.48Twingyshould only take a second or two to compute the image
02:56.57jrobe1master just got a segmentation fault
02:57.00jrobe1let me try again
02:57.11Twingyhrm
02:57.18Twingysomething is wrong with your input files then
02:57.33Twingyit's not very forgiving if you have a typo in your input files
02:57.48jrobe1yeah, it worked
02:57.51Twingyk
02:57.55Twingyshoulda generated a ppm file
02:58.08Twingydoes it look like a humvee?
02:58.38jrobe1I don't see a ppm so maybe it didnt
02:58.46Twingyin the humanim folder
02:58.55Twingyit puts it in the project folder for you
02:58.59jrobe1jason@ice:~/humanim$ rise_master -p . -g ./mesh.db
02:58.59jrobe1Preparing frame #1 of 1
02:58.59jrobe1Master is shutting down, standby.
02:58.59jrobe1Total data transfered: 2088 kB
02:58.59jrobe1jason@ice:~/humanim$ ls
02:59.24jrobe1no directories in humanim
02:59.34Twingyjust do
02:59.35Twingyecho *
02:59.56jrobe1jason@ice:~/humanim$ echo *
02:59.56jrobe1env.db env.db.bak first.g first.plot first.sh frame.db frame.db.bak mesh.db properties.db texture.db
03:00.18Twingyhrmph
03:00.25Twingymaybe it's not spitting them out right now
03:00.27Twingyone sec
03:00.32jrobe1k
03:00.44Twingyah
03:00.45Twingyhehe
03:00.46Twingyyah
03:00.50TwingyI have the saving part comented out
03:00.56Twingygo into rise/master/master.c
03:00.57jrobe1awesome ;)
03:01.00Twingysearch for //
03:01.07Twingyuncomment those 3 lines
03:01.08jrobe1k
03:01.10TwingyI'll commit
03:02.18jrobe1vi is cool
03:02.41Twingynot as cool as tapping moorsecode through your serial port with a couple wires
03:02.45Twingyj/k :)
03:02.50jrobe1lol
03:05.16jrobe1uh, oh, now I get a Segmentation fault every time I run rise_master
03:05.22jrobe1right away
03:07.24Twingylet me test if it works on my end
03:07.29jrobe1k
03:08.33Twingyhrm
03:08.37Twingytry doing a make clean in adrt
03:08.38jrobe1did a clean update in master.c
03:08.44jrobe1will try to make and run
03:08.49TwingyI just tested on my fbsd box and it worked
03:08.54jrobe1k
03:09.00Twingytry something different with the paths
03:09.12Twingyrise_master -p /full/path/.. -g /full/path/.../mesh.db
03:09.21Twingyjust curious
03:09.31jrobe1k
03:09.35Twingythere's a bug there
03:09.41TwingyI haven't fixed, known about it for months
03:10.29jrobe1ah, nevermind--I'm starting from the wrong directory
03:10.33Twingyah
03:11.22Twingyurf
03:11.27jrobe1much better
03:11.32Twingystill atleast 8 hours left on this python integration
03:11.49Twingyk
03:11.52jrobe1wow, late night
03:11.52Twingynow
03:11.59Twingyreplace phong with path,16
03:12.02Twingyand
03:12.09Twingy640,480,40,40 with 640,480,10,10
03:12.10jrobe1looks like one of my scout hmmwv's
03:12.15jrobe1k
03:12.41Twingyshould get a VERY grainy path traced image
03:13.05Twingy256 might be acceptable
03:13.48jrobe1k, taking a bit longer to process
03:13.51Twingyyep :)
03:14.10jrobe1about 2 tenths of a percent per second on this box
03:14.18Twingy117 million rays
03:14.34jrobe1that's a bunch
03:14.37Twingyyah
03:14.42Twingyprobly more like 90 million
03:14.47Twingybut in that neighborhood
03:15.23jrobe1gotchya
03:18.19Twingydone?
03:20.56jrobe180%
03:21.39Twingyk
03:21.48Twingybetchya wish you had a cluster now ;)
03:24.18jrobe1heh, for sure
03:24.32jrobe1this is pretty grainy, but the tail lights are on
03:25.08Twingyyah
03:25.26Twingynot if you do that at like 256
03:25.35Twingyyou'll get something more respectable
03:25.41Twingys/not/now
03:25.43jrobe1k, cool, I'll try it
03:25.53Twingygot any other *nix machines there?
03:25.54Twingylike www?
03:26.32jrobe1I could probably use that one--it's just the server in New York or Dallas
03:26.40jrobe1I never remember where the primary is
03:27.20jrobe1I'm not supposed to leave intense server processes running since it is being shared by several others
03:27.26Twingyahh
03:27.36Twingyhrm
03:27.40Twingycould expose the port on the firewall
03:27.46Twingyand I could have a box here connect to it, hehe
03:28.40jrobe1heh, maybe--I've failed to get even a dns visible to the outside from my home before--I get things through my home firewalls, but earthlink blocks everything after that
03:28.56Twingyahh
03:29.02Twingyoh well
03:29.08Twingyjust goto walmart and buy a cluster of linares, hehe
03:29.17jrobe1I'm replacing myself as network god at work, so he would probably see it if I opened up the cluster at work
03:29.19jrobe1yeah
03:29.56jrobe1I've got four computers here at home I could get up and running
03:30.10jrobe1I'll play around w/ it over the weekend
03:30.11Twingyah
03:30.20Twingyhow's the progress on the 256?
03:30.43jrobe1I need to complete ms stuff by friday
03:30.59Twingyah
03:31.15jrobe1k, just started
03:31.37jrobe1about 8 seconds a tenth of a percent
03:32.12Twingyhehe
03:32.20Twingyker chunk ker chunk
03:32.29jrobe1heh, yeah, go Dell go
03:32.41Twingythis one will be 1/4 as grainy
03:32.47jrobe1k
03:32.50Twingyquaduple the paths to cut noise in half
03:32.55jrobe1I'll try a bigger one over night
03:32.56Twingy*quadruple
03:33.00Twingyk
03:33.01jrobe1got it
03:36.22Twingythe noise is same result of using a camera with a super high shutter speed
03:36.33Twingythe longer the exposure etc...
03:38.07jrobe1ic
03:41.51*** join/#brlcad prasad (~4610162e@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:43.06prasadthat was a funny skit
03:43.27Twingybatteries for the rocket came yesterday
03:43.52Twingyjust need to get crap mounted inside now
03:44.22prasadnice
03:44.35TwingyI need to weigh in all the parts
03:44.39Twingyeventually
03:44.52Twingymake sure I'm under the 3kg mark
03:45.02prasadwhy's that?
03:45.06Twingyotherwise I'll never reach sean's house
03:45.08Twingyerr I mean uhh
03:45.13prasad*rimshot*
03:45.40Twingyhrm
03:45.48Twingyalmost done adding python interprester to interactive raytracer
03:45.57Twingystill a bunch of little doodads left though
03:46.08prasadu need to add a Mode -1
03:46.12prasadfor desktops
03:46.17Twingyno no no
03:46.19TwingyMode 13
03:46.23Twingyfor HIGH color
03:46.24prasadthat renders at 10x10
03:46.26Twingymuhaha
03:46.32Twingyheh
03:46.33Twingycome on
03:46.36Twingyyou could atleast..
03:46.38Twingy16x16
03:46.47prasadoh right
03:46.58Twingyand probly 24x24 on your opteron box
03:47.04prasadrender it on a GLtex and blow it up to 2048
03:47.07prasadgenious
03:47.08Twingyyah
03:47.12Twingygenius? :)
03:47.27prasadargh
03:48.28prasadso im creating this game that needs 325GB just for the terrain
03:48.34prasad<- leet
03:48.51Twingyerm
03:49.04Twingythat's why I don't wanna start my FEM game yet
03:49.11Twingyjust not enough memory
03:49.17Twingybut if you write the game
03:49.22Twingyin 10 years you'll be able to run it
03:49.35prasadit'll take 10 years at this rate
03:49.39prasad???
03:49.40prasadprofit
03:49.41Twingythere you go
03:49.59prasadoi!
03:50.10Twingyhttp://www-ec.njit.edu/~jls2363/underpants.jpg
03:50.53prasadwhat is that? south park?
03:50.57Twingyyes
03:52.15prasadhey who's the main admin for shiva?
03:52.18prasaderik?
03:54.29Twingyme
03:55.12prasadk
03:55.18prasadbe bugging u soon
03:55.25Twingyoh yea
03:55.27Twingyerik is the admin
03:55.39prasadneed to spawn a jini service
03:55.45prasad'diagnostics'
03:55.57Twingybrb, hotdogs
03:56.01prasadto notify the fire dept if the cluster starts smoking
03:59.35*** join/#brlcad EricWilhelm (~ewilhelm@pool-71-111-99-145.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
04:14.40Twingyhrm
04:14.44TwingyI'm out of propane
04:25.38brlcadjrobey: NickServ manages nicks -- you can register your irc aliases with it, and then ghost any that go stale /msg nickserv help
04:30.19Twingyhrm
04:30.30Twingymy python interface is going to be less command driven
04:30.42Twingyit'll consist of a content editor with console
04:31.01Twingyyou write your 1 to n lines of python, hit ctrl+p and it processes it and spits output to console
04:31.11Twingysame way blender works
04:31.21*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
04:31.48brlcadjrobey: NickServ manages nicks -- you can register your irc aliases with it, and then ghost any that go stale /msg nickserv
04:31.52brlcad<PROTECTED>
04:32.08prasadhey sean's not asleep
04:32.22Twingysleep is for the weak
04:33.10prasadill have to write a jni wrapper to adrt
04:33.23Twingyo.O
04:33.45brlcadthat could be interesting
04:34.10prasadthen we have a reason to take over msrc under the guise of muves3
04:35.01Twingyheh
04:35.10TwingyI think you'll need msrc
04:35.14Twingyfor the database transactions
04:35.42Twingyand a pocket calculator for the raytracer
04:35.47Twingywith it 92% idle
04:38.36prasadg3d engine can only reach 50fps at 100K tri/sec on a ti4600
04:38.44prasadbleh
04:38.52Twingyreally?
04:38.57Twingyhow about 1 mil?
04:39.08prasadim just running the demo
04:39.11Twingyah
04:39.17Twingythat's not all that great
04:39.22prasadsure isnt
04:39.31Twingywonder how it'd fair on 12.8 mil
04:39.34prasadnot enough to support my 325GB memory footprint
04:45.14jrobeyTwingy: 48% complete
04:45.25Twingyheh
04:45.30Twingyoverclock that thing
04:45.35Twingyto like... 50 gigglehurts
04:45.39jrobeylol
04:46.20jrobeyheh, at least I don't have m$ anymore and can multitask
04:46.37Twingyhehe
04:56.22CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
04:56.23CIA-8BRL-CAD: Python interpretor working now. Command interface has become a blender style
04:56.23CIA-8BRL-CAD: editing interface with ctrl+p to process and ctrl+l to clear buffers. Rise image
04:56.23CIA-8BRL-CAD: output re-enabled.
05:06.36prasadhmm
05:06.51prasadirrlicht is a nifty little engine
05:11.31Twingyaha
05:14.12prasad?
05:15.26Twingyalice in chains
05:18.44brlcadARL in Chaos
05:19.20Twingyheh
05:19.28Twingy
05:19.38Twingyadrt.camera.set.position(0,0,0)
05:19.49Twingyhrm
05:22.38TwingyAdvanced Computer Sausages Team
05:22.49CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (igvt/master/igvt_python.c libutil/display.c): memory bug fix.
05:23.03prasadnone of these engines can do outdoor scenes well enough
05:23.10prasadi dont want to write my own engine dammit
05:23.19Twingywriting your own engine is over-rated
05:24.19Twingypayday
05:24.19prasad(dyslexia) soo its easy?
05:24.30Twingytime consuming
05:24.42Twingyvery time consuming
05:24.44prasadthat's what i meant
05:25.41prasadsame here
05:26.20prasadbut i dont think there's a 'free' engine out there that supports a 1 billion square tile terrain
05:26.38prasador at least render it with some optimizations
05:26.43TwingyI don't think there's a pc out there that can render 1 billion square tile terrain
05:27.05Twingyat any interactive rate anyhow
05:27.06prasad;)
05:27.21TwingyI think you should raytrace it
05:27.36prasadkeep the zoom level at a decent level
05:27.43prasadu could do it easily with a quadtree
05:28.47Twingy3 more months before I can take another week off :(
05:29.05prasadu on credit hrs?
05:29.15Twingyhrm?
05:29.33prasadknow what it is?
05:29.56Twingythat where you borrow?
05:30.03brlcad1 billian square?  like 1billion x 1billion?
05:30.18Twingyyes
05:30.22Twingyerr
05:30.24prasadno
05:30.30Twingyno
05:30.42Twingysqrt(1 billion) x sqrt(1 billion)
05:30.44prasadsqrt(billion) x sqrt(billon)
05:30.49prasadargh
05:30.53Twingybeetcha to it
05:30.54brlcadthat's about 32k x 32k
05:31.03brlcadlots of engines can do that
05:31.13prasadfree ones?
05:31.27brlcadheck, mged can do that
05:31.31Twingyheh
05:31.33TwingyI doubt it
05:31.46Twingyunless you have like 8GB of ram
05:32.13Twingykind of funny how it can't work with my 1 million polygon dragon :P
05:32.14brlcadit is an in-core algorithm, but it is fairly well-optimized
05:33.46prasadi can support a 5k x 5k tile terrain with 500MB at 16bytes per tile
05:33.47brlcadlimited to short-int height variations, so 32k x 32k would use 2GB just for the grided data values
05:35.21prasadbut if there's a good caching system, with intelligent loading on a low priority thread, i guess 32kx32k would work
05:35.35prasadnow if u zoom out to view the whole map
05:35.38prasadhmm
05:35.41brlcadit's mmap'd, so as good as the system VM
05:36.44prasadi could probably do some LOD stuff
05:36.59prasadif the backend is a modified quadtree
05:37.11brlcadhttp://www.terrainengine.com/
05:38.13prasadohh nice
05:40.06prasadheh i somehow forgot look at osg
05:40.58brlcadthis looks interesting too .. http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~lindstro/software/soar/
05:50.51brlcadcool
05:52.30prasadnow to generate a 32kx32k bmp :)
05:52.53brlcadI can try that :)
05:53.21brlcadonly using 20M resident with the puget
05:53.45brlcadfull view
05:53.47prasad32kx32k would be 1gb for 8bit grey scale
05:53.53prasadoh thats cool
05:53.58prasadcan u zoom out?
05:54.37prasadwell.. puget sound is 1k x 1k
05:56.56brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/puget01.png
05:57.00brlcadyeah, pretty small
05:57.41brlcadthe .g is only 2MB, neat
06:00.12brlcadoh, now we're talking.. a 16k x 16k elevation map of the puget sound at georgia tech
06:01.00brlcadooh, with a 300MB png texture map that I can add as a shader..
08:38.24*** join/#brlcad clock- (~clock@19.32.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch)
08:42.23*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
12:43.16learnerheya narnia.. been a while
14:24.36*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@drs-15-90.psl.nmsu.edu)
14:56.52*** join/#brlcad reed (~reed@213-140-6-112.fastres.net)
14:56.55reedhello all
15:01.31brlcadhello
15:12.35*** join/#brlcad clock-_ (~clock@146.37.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch)
15:36.20narnialearner, i am still attempting to print the 30,000+ pages of legal documents.
15:36.57narnialearner, basiccally tied up with the 8+yr legal nightmare.
15:38.14narnialearner, my network has been under attack for the past couple days so i have had not much of a life.
17:35.39CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: initial Makefile.defs for providing a global build options to all the Makefile.am files. presently includes a 'fast' target that will link targets in parallel when the Makefile.am includes a FAST_OBJECTS directive
17:37.35CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: add Makefile.defs to the dist, use the new pro/e BUILD_PROE define
17:49.10*** join/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
19:54.33*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
20:01.26CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (igvt/master/igvt_python.c libutil/display.c): Several minor additional improvements to the editor window, 80% done.
21:16.01archivistskeletons rattle
21:51.29*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
21:51.58CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
21:51.58CIA-8BRL-CAD: Camera position, azimuth, and elevation accessible from python now.
21:51.58CIA-8BRL-CAD: Added cut and paste to editor, 85% done.
22:02.06*** join/#brlcad clock- (clock@twin.jikos.cz)
22:02.49*** join/#brlcad clock- (clock@twin.jikos.cz)
22:41.48CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (igvt/master/master.c librender/grid.c): adjusting parameters.
22:46.56brlcadotherwise this will be about 100 e-mails
23:03.12Twingy_I don't get emails
23:03.16Twingy_so go right ahead
23:10.56brlcadthat can be easily "fixed"
23:11.06brlcad"we fixed the glitch"
23:11.43Twingy_*shrug* I'll just remove myself if you do it :)
23:12.02CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/observer/ (observer.c splash.h): New splash screen, and renaming IGVT to Interactive Shot Selection Tool (ISST) in progress,,,
23:13.05brlcadheh, not if I set it as a fixed archive copy e-mail instead of a subscribed user :)
23:18.55archivist_oo same error as last night
23:18.58archivist_configure: error: source directory already configured; run "make distclean" there first
23:18.58archivist_./build: line 3: ./brlcad/make: No such file or directory
23:19.30archivist_but did run make distclean
23:20.31brlcadhow in the world are you getting it into an inconsistent state??
23:20.40brlcadyou have yet to even build
23:21.01brlcadyou can no longer make after running make distclean
23:21.12brlcadyou have to start over after a distclean
23:21.17brlcad./autogen.sh && ./configure ...
23:21.32archivist_yes
23:21.47archivist_in a shell script
23:22.05brlcadhuh?
23:22.14brlcadyou're writing a build script of some sort?
23:22.26brlcadit should be a simple 3-liner at worst
23:22.33archivist_3 lines
23:23.43archivist_i wonder if getting anon can ecen work for a large system
23:26.50brlcadwhat do you mean?
23:28.25archivist_allyou are fetching from logged in cvs i am anon with said delay and whatever inconsistencies
23:28.56brlcadwhat's your sf.net id?
23:29.55archivist_archivist
23:30.50archivist_i also wonder if ther is some setup not covered yet
23:30.55brlcadI can grant non-anon cvs, though only under the understanding that you'll follow all the rules and guidelines listed in the HACKING and COPYING files
23:32.17brlcadyou're on Debian, right?
23:32.31archivist_i agee
23:32.34archivist_yes
23:32.43archivist_3.10a
23:32.54brlcadagee?
23:33.19brlcadage?
23:33.37archivist_i think i saw that d rossberg is also on the same debian
23:33.45archivist_agree
23:33.51brlcadahh, heh
23:34.20archivist_did he do anything to get it going?
23:34.44brlcadI've built it on a couple different debian boxes several times
23:34.50archivist_ive got vnc working also now
23:35.10brlcadusually involved ensuring that the gnu autotools are all installed correctly
23:35.19brlcadbut after that, it works
23:36.36brlcadrossberg didn't mention anything special
23:36.54brlcadokay, you're added to the project now with access
23:37.05brlcad"don't break anything" ;)
23:37.14brlcadyou'll have to check out again
23:37.50archivist_ok thanks i wont checkout tonight as was about to go home 12:40
23:38.35brlcadsave the build steps to a log file so I can see exactly what happened in order in case it still doesn't work
23:38.46brlcadi.e. run the build as follows:
23:39.00brlcad./autogen.sh > autogen.log 2>&1
23:39.15brlcad./configure --enable-optimized > configure.log 2>&1
23:39.28brlcadmake > build.log 2>&1
23:39.47brlcadif anything fails, can send me *.log (which includes a config.log file)
23:40.56archivistok thanks
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050624

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050624

00:21.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
00:21.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: bu_malloc() function and company take an unsigned int argument and will overflow
00:21.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: without notification (since it is unsigned) resulting in less memory allocated
00:21.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: than one requested. should probably use a size_t like malloc or add better
00:21.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: support to increase the types to long or long long signed.
00:29.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: make the DSP primitive use less memory when data is coming from a binunif. allocating 160 times binunif size is a bit extravagant (which comes from sizeof(struct dsp_bb)).
00:53.33*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
01:10.15TwingyIch bin ein Berliner
02:07.05*** join/#brlcad jrobe1 (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
02:07.19Twingyjason's evil twin!
02:07.24jrobe1heh
02:07.29jrobe1gotta love my client
02:07.37jrobe1I am a jelly donut
02:07.47Twingysean brought donuts in today
02:07.52jrobe1cool
02:08.01Twingynone of them were jelly though
02:08.08jrobe1bummer
02:08.09prasadmmm donuts
02:08.14TwingyI'm becoming an optimization junky
02:08.22prasadi only had one...
02:08.29prasadunlike some ppl
02:08.31jrobe1its the little things that make life worth living
02:08.35jrobe1heh
02:08.38TwingyI think I'm up to about 8 hours over the past 6 months staring at my engine code and not changing a line
02:08.51jrobe1wow
02:09.06Twingyit's pissing me off :)
02:09.24TwingyI'd be content with 1% improvement right now
02:10.09Twingy'lo
02:10.35narniaTwingy, any pictures of the rocket yet?
02:10.41prasadwhat engine is this?
02:10.51jrobe1bbiab--going to try to bring up another render slave
02:10.55Twingytie
02:31.54Twingyok, break time
02:32.41learnerjust broke a PB in benchpress a lil bit ago
02:34.26*** part/#brlcad narnia (~terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
02:48.07learnerTwingy, what was the resolution of the big display
02:48.25learneryou know it's physical dimensions too?
03:00.16Twingyhrm?
03:00.29Twingyit's 36 feet x 8 feet
03:01.04Twingyyou can go up to 4,820 x 1024 I think
03:01.31TwingyI forget what the blending region is... I could login and find out
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03:32.17CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/master/master.c: Added blender style 6 orthogonal views using keypad 1, 3, 7 plus shift.
05:13.16TwingyI know the pieces fit
06:28.33CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
06:28.33CIA-8BRL-CAD: Additional render data is now passed along in render method baggage in master. Observer reports fps on
06:28.33CIA-8BRL-CAD: screen now. Add math_vec_set to libtie. Master fires shotline by pressing keypad period, and keypad 0
06:28.33CIA-8BRL-CAD: places camera back at the shotline origin.
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13:06.56archivist_3hmm lightening doesnt do your system much good (1 network card,1 adsl router, 1 network switch)
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17:58.48clock-_reed: do you like ecstasy?
18:28.18brlcad?
19:04.32CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/nirt/command.c: Declared in raytrace.h
19:17.15CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/units.c liboptical/sh_grass.c): ws
19:19.53CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: Fixed bugs that caused the region names reported to be potentially fouled up (i.e. The temporary string being used was continually being written to even though there were previous pointers into this tmp string.)
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22:58.53CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 4 dirs): fixing rise observer
23:17.31CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: rt, rtedge, rtarea, rtweight, and potentially others will end up using dgo_rt_cmd
23:23.55CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (rtif.c cmd.c cmd.h):
23:23.55CIA-8BRL-CAD: add mged commands for rtarea and rtweight. they all ultimately end up calling
23:23.55CIA-8BRL-CAD: dgo_rt_cmd for consistency but retain their own cmd_ hook function. update the
23:23.55CIA-8BRL-CAD: comments to match the functions that were changed from f_ to cmd_ too
23:25.22CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: add help for rtarea and rtweight
23:26.30CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: add help hook for rtarea and rtweight
23:35.28CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Display.tcl Drawable.tcl QuadDisplay.tcl): add rtarea and rtweight to the mged classes.. no idea if this is right or all that's needed, but seemed reasonable.
23:41.15CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added rtarea and rtweight commands to mged
23:44.26CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: The rtarea command was added to mged as well, along with rtweight.
23:45.52CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: add Makefile.defs as an include
23:48.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (7 files in 7 dirs): add Makefile.defs as an include
23:49.49CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/ (Makefile.am include/Makefile.am): add Makefile.defs as an include
23:50.42CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/pix/Makefile.am: add Makefile.defs as an include, still testing
23:51.36CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: add Makefile.defs as an include, still testing
23:55.03CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: disable commit e-mails temporarily for a collective Makefile.am update to include Makefile.defs
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050625

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050625

00:11.21CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (36 files in 36 dirs): include misc/Makefile.defs and an initial FAST_OBJECTS list so that the products in this directory may be compiled AND linked in parallel
00:12.46CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: get rid of the custom versioning and use BRL-CADs version instead. add Makefile.defs too.
00:14.15CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (50 files in 50 dirs): include misc/Makefile.defs
00:14.33CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: re-enable commit e-mails after a collective Makefile.am update to include Makefile.defs
00:14.46CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/library/Makefile.am itk/Makefile.am): include misc/Makefile.defs
00:15.09CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: oops, re-enabled too quickly, disable again
00:23.42CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (53 files in 53 dirs): include misc/Makefile.defs
00:25.58CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: re-re-enable commit e-mails after a collective Makefile.am update to include Makefile.defs
00:38.05CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/Makefile.am: add the missing extra_dist files and include Makefile.defs
00:39.47CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/misc/Makefile.am: add an initial Makefile.am so that make dist isn't broken
00:39.55CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: disable again to add includes of Makefile.defs to src/adrt
00:40.35CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (16 files in 16 dirs): include misc/Makefile.defs to all Makefile.am
00:41.18CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: enable emails again after add of Makefile.defs to src/adrt Makefile.am files
00:43.40CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add src/adrt/scripts and src/adrt/misc to Makefile output, sort src/adrt alphabeticaly like everything else too
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00:50.21Olde_Nickis there anyone here who could answer a quick question about 7.2.6 for linux?
01:16.43Twingyo.O
01:22.56Twingyurf
02:01.46Twingywee
02:11.09Twingyk, rise_observer breaths once again
02:11.25Twingyafter a quick game of vice city
02:44.06archivist_34318
03:14.00CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Minimal support to get rise_observer working.
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15:26.51CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: we still need missing to complete a distclean
15:33.29CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: recognize .am, .in, and .mk files
15:36.07CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: abort if we do not know the file type
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15:42.50CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: recognize .am and .mk files
15:53.53CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: oops, add the right mask and terminate the case properly
15:56.29CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: add a header and footer to the main Makefile.am, bsd license of course
17:16.35CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: traverse doc, misc, scripts and add the missing files so that make distcheck isn't broken. the depcomp hack isn't necessary with autogen.sh and happens to break making a dist too
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050626

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050626

01:17.58Twingy2/3 done the render
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03:45.21Twingymm, almsot done
03:46.52PrezKennedydysleixa!!!
04:06.35Twingyhrm, 100 billion rays, 97.2% done
04:11.32Twingy98.2%
04:11.32Twingywee
04:11.43Twingyseg fault
04:11.47Twingyjust kidding :)
04:16.04PrezKennedyhttp://xgatech.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=28&cid=5 - before a defrag
04:16.13PrezKennedyhttp://xgatech.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=29&cid=5
04:16.16PrezKennedyafter
04:16.17PrezKennedy:-)
04:23.10Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/images/boat_path.jpg
04:24.25PrezKennedyhttp://prezkennedy.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=542&cid=6
04:29.46Twingyneat
04:30.36PrezKennedyi took over 200 pictures while i was in the city
04:31.18Twingyah
04:31.23TwingyI took about 130 at disney
04:34.47PrezKennedyhttp://prezkennedy.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=554&cid=6
04:35.04PrezKennedythats where the entire supply of lanjegers come from
04:37.01Twingyah
04:37.05Twingyusing the sepia tone
04:37.25PrezKennedyfor a few
04:38.18TwingyAAAAA - American Association Against Acronym Abuse
06:05.23PrezKennedydammit people are scary sometimes
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050627

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050627

01:27.48Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/images/fancy_mice.jpg
01:27.51Twingy^-- test pilots
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04:26.55CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: include the AUTHORS, COPYING, HACKING, INSTALL, NEWS, and README files as part of the installation for binary distributions
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16:29.33Twingy_Wassaaaaaaaabiiiiii
16:30.02PKMOBILEmmmm lanyeager... or however its spelled
16:34.18Twingy_yagermeister
16:34.26Twingy_yayger
19:07.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: libtool wants the version colon separated
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20:49.20Twingy_http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html
21:14.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Adding s pawl cone render method.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050628

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050628

05:07.23*** join/#brlcad prasadSF (~40ae8bbe@bz.bzflag.bz)
05:07.31prasadSFhallo
05:07.49prasadSFlive from J1
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12:46.43tarzeauhi
12:46.58tarzeaunobody made a package for debian yet? http://lists.debian.org/debian-wnpp/2005/01/msg00462.html
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16:24.01brlcadtarzeau: not yet
16:24.39brlcadtarzeau: the info on that url is rather out-dated
16:26.22brlcadthe package name should be BRL-CAD, it's covered by multiple licenses, 7.2.6 is the latest (with 7.4.0 posting in about 10 days), the url should be http://brlcad.org, upstream author probably deserves some discussion
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17:05.19Twingy_o.O
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17:48.00tarzeaubrlcad: hi
17:48.10tarzeauis someone packaging it?
17:48.26tarzeaudo you guys need help? i'd like to, since we want to use it at our campus, and i'm their debian hero guy ;)
18:31.06brlcadhelp is always welcome! :)
18:31.52brlcadtarzeau: as far as I know, nobody is actively packaging it so your help is more than welcome
18:32.17brlcaddebian actually gives me more grief than almost all other platforms combined (except solaris, of course..)
18:33.04brlcadso that probably just goes to show that we do need more work on infrastructure support ;)
18:34.27brlcadtarzeau: the biggest hold-up was that BRL-CAD traditionally has preferred a single install root -- this does not bode well with most of the packaging systems that have arisen in the past decade or so (apt, portage, ports)
18:34.39tarzeaugreat!
18:35.05tarzeaubut debian is the most easy one!
18:35.06brlcadso we've put a little effort in to allow for the more integrated install
18:35.11brlcad~dict grief
18:35.27brlcadheh, dict ~= problems
18:35.29tarzeauok it's good to know nobody works on it
18:35.46Twingy_~dict schism
18:35.49tarzeauso, that means, i will. and i will also want to talk with you, you are one of the developers of it?
18:36.09brlcadyes
18:36.11tarzeauyou know there's software called "schism" (an impulse tracker clone)
18:36.26tarzeaubrlcad was used for a presentation i've seen: ronja.twibright.com
18:37.03brlcadyes, the guy that runs ronja's been in here quite a bit
18:37.13brlcadvery impressive use ;)
18:37.27tarzeauyep ;)
18:37.44brlcadhe made those models in about a day after learning brl-cad
18:37.44tarzeaui've just downloaded the tar.gz today at work and i will look at it tomorrow
18:37.54tarzeauheh! i've learnt blender some time ago,
18:38.00tarzeaubut of course it's something different
18:39.15tarzeaui think the "werkstatt" and "physics students" will profit from this software alot, when they have it ready to clickstart
18:39.39tarzeaulooks like tcl/tk
18:40.20tarzeauthere's no native (cocoa) port to os x, is there?
18:41.04brlcadthere is not yet
18:41.20brlcadmged is a tcl/tk and C mix
18:41.48tarzeauis there one planned?
18:41.56tarzeaubecause if there is, you know about GNUstep ? ;)
18:42.00brlcadthere is Aqua Tk that will give the proper look/feel, but when I last tried linking against that framework, it was woefully buggy
18:42.25brlcadthat was, though, more than a year ago .. so it's definitely time to try AquaTk again
18:42.44brlcadwith that, the "port" will be a simple recompile
18:42.58brlcadvery aware of gnustep :)
18:43.08tarzeaugood ;)
18:44.40CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/ (13 files in 13 dirs): revert the new path changes and install the html docs into the datadir root until mged is fixed to find them in doc/
18:58.02brlcadtarzeau: if I may ask, which school are you at?
18:58.25tarzeau{www,nic}.phys.ethz.ch
18:59.02brlcadthat's a long name .. :)
19:02.49tarzeauthat's the webpages
19:03.01tarzeauwhere are you at?
19:03.28brlcadMaryland, US
19:03.58brlcadETH is much shorter .. though I meant the full expansion :)
19:26.43tarzeauin english: swiss federal institute of technologz zurich
19:26.49tarzeauthink of it as mit.edu, just twice as big
19:27.23tarzeauhttp://www.seismo.ethz.ch/div/find_sed.html i'm in the 6 edged building
19:27.33brlcadyep
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20:49.26tarzeauheh clock-
20:51.09clock-tarzeau: heh
20:51.56brlcadheh
20:52.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
20:52.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: get rid of the duplicate automake hacking and just resolve to use
20:52.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE for now. would also like no-dependencies but have not
20:52.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: figured out how to dynamically set that option without causing vast troubles.
20:52.03CIA-3BRL-CAD: (including AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE multiple times is apparently buggy for at least
20:52.04CIA-3BRL-CAD: several versions of automake resulting in incorrect expansions in the resultant
20:52.06CIA-3BRL-CAD: configure script (aclocal- problem)).
21:05.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
21:05.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: Spawl cone rendering method now display as shaded red transparent. Added
21:05.45CIA-3BRL-CAD: python hooks for getting and setting spawl angle.
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21:58.17menotumebrlcad: are you causing trouble here ?
21:59.47brlcadof course
21:59.54menotume:D
22:00.10brlcadcolors and plaids.. plaid's not a color? :)
22:00.22menotumeno, it's a pattern of colors
22:00.34menotumeIMHO
22:01.39brlcad:)
22:02.05menotumethe conference is a bit more advanced than just 'solids' :p
22:02.12brlcadhehe
22:02.27brlcadwho would have thought that someone would have a conference on color :)
22:02.41menotumeor 'shapes and solids' ?
22:02.50menotumelol
22:03.17brlcadwho hosts it?
22:03.17archivist_especially if male
22:03.22brlcadacm/ieee?
22:03.24menotumeDid you attend the seminar on triangles ?
22:03.47brlcadseminar on triangles?
22:03.49brlcadwhich one? :)
22:03.54brlcadthere were lots
22:04.01menotumehehe
22:04.25menotumeI heard the icoceles (sp) was truely angular
22:05.18menotumei better stop before i get booted for flooding :)
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23:17.48CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE cannot be in a conditional either, so let off be the default and auto-enable maintainer-mode if there is a CVS directory.
23:27.56brlcadyay, 64-bit amd linux build doesn't require manual path tweaking any more
23:28.06brlcadclean build
23:34.02CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: write up on adrt in NEWS
23:35.39CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix mged backgrounding when parent quickly fails (e.g. no DISPLAY)
23:36.22menotumeyay. i was wondering when you were gonna fix that
23:37.10menotumei've never gotten a clean build on brlcad
23:37.21brlcadreally?
23:37.26menotumereally
23:37.27brlcadwhich system?
23:37.33CIA-3BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: make X11 optional at configure-time
23:37.42menotumei've never tried to build it :)
23:37.47brlcadbah :)
23:37.51menotumerofl
23:38.55brlcadbrl-cad's cross-platform support dwarfs bz (even though bz is much better than most), yet there are always still "issues" with some of them
23:39.33brlcadpart of it is because we picked up an entirely new build system "recently" after about 15 years with another
23:39.35menotumeyes, i would image
23:39.38menotumeimagine
23:39.45menotumewow
23:40.01menotumeis this more of a true 'CAD', or a scene renderere ?
23:40.16brlcadmore of a true cad
23:40.20brlcadit's a solid modeling system
23:40.22menotumegotya
23:41.02brlcadimage processing tools, rendering and some engineering analysis tools, a gui-based solid modeler
23:41.26menotumeahhh, the hubble render looks good
23:41.28brlcadgeometry converters, procedural data generators
23:41.42brlcadmeh, it's okay
23:42.23brlcadthe render was never designed for realistic pictures, designed for numerical accuracy, stability, repeatability, etc
23:42.25menotumewhat kind of time did it take to render that final scene ?
23:42.33menotumegotya
23:42.48brlcadtwo new renders were just recently added though, that give the realism
23:42.51menotumejust approx. minutes or hours ?
23:43.26brlcadwhich one?
23:43.32menotumehubble
23:43.38brlcadseconds
23:43.45menotumeahhh :)
23:43.55brlcadthe raytracer is pretty darn fast :)
23:43.56menotumekewl
23:44.10brlcadthough an even faster one was recently added too as part of adrt
23:44.23menotumei take it you can set up light(s)
23:44.49brlcadof course
23:44.53menotume:)
23:45.07brlcadhere's one that was done with the adrt path tracer that you might have seen on #bz a while back
23:45.11brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/humvee.png
23:45.11menotumeok, /me adds this to the near-top of the to-dolist: play with brlcad
23:45.32brlcadhey, don't play with me :)
23:45.37brlcadplay with brl-cad ;)
23:45.43menotumehehe
23:45.47menotumethat looks good
23:46.01menotumehmmm, no transparent objects ?
23:46.35menotumenice diffuse lighting there
23:46.40brlcadno, it can .. just was more simple to paint em gray
23:46.48menotume:)
23:47.01brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg
23:47.07menotumeya, or you'd have to do some interior work
23:48.01menotumeokies
23:48.08menotumesome of that is right over my head
23:48.20menotumecaustics percent, photons, etc.
23:48.36menotume16 processors ?
23:48.37brlcadintentionally a bit "busy"
23:48.50brlcadit will scale to as many as you can thow at it
23:49.14menotumeahh haa. here, i can throw one at it :)
23:49.22brlcadhehe
23:49.51menotumenice - i must play woith it
23:50.00brlcadbrl-cad's rt was actually the first parallel ray-tracer
23:50.14menotumeah haa
23:50.17brlcad20 years ago or so
23:50.23menotumeeeeesh
23:50.34menotumewhen you wwere 13, i take it ?
23:50.55brlcadso it's been designed to scale up from a single cpu to the biggest supercomputers (which it's run on regularly)
23:51.41menotumehttp://www.sicompos.com/oldsite/pcpos/index.html
23:51.45brlcadbrl-cad's been under development since 1979 ..  :)
23:51.54menotumethat's about all i've done - with Corel Dream-3d years ago
23:51.58brlcadfirst released in '84 iirc
23:52.11menotumebut, it was very detailed, connector panel, every little screw, etc.
23:52.32menotumehttp://www.sicompos.com/oldsite/pcpos/pics/fc01b.html
23:52.36menotumethat's a better one
23:52.37menotume:)
23:52.54menotumeI used to work there :)
23:53.16brlcadyou could make a brl-cad model out of that quickly enough ;)
23:53.27menotumeyeah
23:53.27brlcadand then perform ballistic analysis on it ;)
23:53.32menotume:)
23:53.33TwingyI'd have more fun making the actual unit
23:53.42menotumewell, i did that
23:54.05menotumethat is, i did the system s/w for it
23:54.28Twingytell me you didn't hand code assembly :)
23:54.33menotumewish i had some of the old stuff i did still
23:54.46menotumemade movies of the keyboards - how to replace an overlay
23:54.57brlcadblowtorch?
23:55.44menotumehehe, no the lid hinging up, overlays came out, etc.
23:56.01menotumewow, 1997
23:56.14menotumeeeesh, i am getting sooo old :)
23:56.43brlcadnever too late to take up cad development ;)
23:56.53menotumeheh
23:57.05brlcaduncle sam wants you!
23:57.25brlcador would his niece samantha be more enticing? :)
23:57.30menotumehow much does uncle pay ? :)
23:57.40menotumeahhh, fringe bennies
23:57.58Twingyhrm
23:57.58Twingymy UPS just kicked in
23:58.12Twingyblargh
23:59.15menotumeahh, missed that - no twingy, we had an assembler :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050629

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050629

00:00.11Twingyick
00:00.42menotumealthough I did do that on my very first z80 TRS-80
00:00.57menotumeand saved code to casette tape
00:05.46Twingyheh
00:05.52Twingythird time the UPS has kicked in the last 5 minutes
00:06.29menotumet-storm ?
00:07.13Twingyjup
00:07.28TwingyI got 5+ hours of UPS time, so I'm not worried
00:07.36menotume:)
00:08.03Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/images/monsterups.jpg
00:08.26Twingywhen I get a bigger place I'll have a bunch more batteries
00:09.10menotumeeeeeeeeep. do you sell power back to the power company ?
00:09.17Twingyno..
00:09.22TwingyI'm not generating any
00:09.28TwingyI'm in a crappy town house
00:09.38menotume:)
00:10.00TwingyI think I'm going to build a thermal vection generator for my next place
00:10.23Twingysean, you mind adding me to the chanserv list?
00:10.42TwingyI gotta stick around in this place for another year before I can buy a bigger place
00:11.08TwingyI need a place with a bunch of land so I can build a big workshop
00:11.17Twingythen I can build stuff
00:12.11Twingydivide it into 4 parts, chem lab, physics lab, metal shop, electronics bench
00:12.42TwingyI wand atleast 400 sq ft for it
00:12.44Twingy*want
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00:26.20brlcadabout half an hour if stryker was tossed in too
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04:30.08fennheh brlcad==bzflag
04:33.01brlcadhmm?
04:33.29brlcadi'm a core developer for both projects
04:33.30fennany plans for integrating a bzflag module into brlcad? :)
04:33.48brlcadactually there are plans ..yes :)
04:33.55fennawesome
04:34.11brlcadsupport for the .bzw world format so you can use brl-cad to edit bzflag worlds
04:34.39fenni started playing bzflag in second grade on an SGI IRIX system
04:35.32fennjust got back from the cnc-workshop, and wanting to get my feet wet with some CAD
04:37.16brlcadah, fun
04:40.10brlcadwhich cnc-workshop are you referring to?
04:40.12fenni'm thinking about writing a CAM plugin for 6-axis machines, but i'll have to re-learn all that math
04:40.32fennit was a week-long seminar/gathering held in illinois last week
04:40.35fenncnc-workshop.com
04:41.15brlcadahh, interesting
04:41.22brlcadhow much interest did it gather?
04:41.57brlcadthe seminar that is
04:41.57fennthere were maybe 160 people total.. 120 on thursday, 50-100 the rest of the week
04:42.05brlcadnot bad
04:42.13fennway more than the organizers expected :)
04:42.22brlcadmore than I would have expected too :)
04:42.26fennit was pretty amazing really
04:42.50brlcadso was brl-cad mentioned at some point or did you just run across it on your own?
04:43.24fennbrlcad was mentioned a couple times, but i was just reading the linux-cad mailing list and saw the "released undre open source" thread
04:43.47fennlast time i looked at brl cad it wasn't open source, i think?
04:44.42brlcadit's always been available via a source distribution, but via non OSI-approved agreement
04:45.27brlcadthe former agreement was a real pain to deal with, you had to fax/mail in a request for the software and wait for decryption keys
04:45.53brlcadbut ... "other than that" it was pretty much an open source license
04:46.40fennhmm that was probably why i never looked into it further
04:46.41brlcadit was only recently released as "Open Source (tm)" under the OSI approved gpl, lgpl, bsd, licenses
04:47.03fennwhy the big fuss about some source code?
04:47.18fenni mean, why was it such a pain to get the source before?
04:47.43brlcadwell, the practice predates the existance of things like "the internet"
04:48.03brlcadbrl-cad has been in development since 1979
04:48.11fennwoah, you mean, people can survive without the internet?
04:48.12brlcaddistributed/released since 1984
04:48.46brlcadthe original distribution involved someone copying the sources onto tapes and sending them to you via regular mail
04:49.06brlcadso they wanted/needed to know who everyone was
04:49.19brlcadthat practice continued through the past couple decades until recently
04:49.57fennoh my 37 megs.. that would take a long time to download in the 80's
04:49.58brlcadthere was also a rather complex intellectual property issue
04:51.02brlcadit being a gov't code with restrictions on development/use (i.e. exempt from FOIA), a complex set of developers/contributors, a potential for commercialization, etc
04:51.59brlcadanyhow, it's now open source and all is better in the world
04:52.07fennyeehaw
04:52.27brlcadand th eopen source community gets the benefit on the tens of millions invested into the development to date
04:52.50fenni'm working on EMC and the original public domain license is currently being switched to GPL
04:54.07brlcadinteresting, i've seen and heard of the linuxcnc project a while ago
04:54.24fennit's changed quite a bit in the last year or so
04:54.28fennwith EMC2 and all
04:55.15brlcada cam module would be very interesting to see
04:55.35fennlinux really needs some type of CAM software
04:56.17brlcadthere was another interested in integrating brl-cad with linuxcnc and the gnu-cad-cam project
04:56.41brlcadhe stops in from time to time, though has been busy of late
04:56.53fenngawd ribbonsoft
04:56.56fenngimme a break
04:57.16fennwtf is the point of taking GPL software and making it closed source?
04:57.52fennoops nevermind that last comment
04:59.08fennanyway, i would like to implement it as a semi-standalone chunk of code that can work with brlcad's native file format
05:00.00fennoriginally i was going to use opencascade libraries to parse the CAD files into something i could use
05:00.25brlcadqcad isn't at all geared for cam IMO
05:00.26fennbut their documentation is non-existent and getting the source/licensing is a pain
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05:00.41fennheh qcad is a drawing application
05:01.30brlcadbrl-cad's design bodes well with your plan to implement it as a stand-alone chunk of code
05:01.44brlcadbrl-cad is actually over 400 binaries
05:01.51fenncool
05:02.04brlcadeach serving a different purpose like diff, awk, sed, less, etc
05:02.28brlcadmost of them can be strung together as well in a similar fashion
05:02.42fenni can pipe stuff in/out of them?
05:02.50brlcadmany of them, yes
05:03.08brlcadlike the image manipulators/converters
05:03.20brlcads/image/image and data/
05:04.24brlcadso it fits right in with the design to have something like g2gcode or something similar
05:05.24brlcadsomething that might take a brl-cad database and output cnc machining code for it
05:05.40brlcador perhaps a module to the gui-based mged modeler
05:06.52fennhuh?
05:07.05fennlike toolpath verification?
05:07.21fenn(verified by human eyes that is)
05:07.43brlcadyeah, something like that
05:08.03brlcadmaybe visually pick your tools and materials setup
05:08.54fennautomatically avoiding fixtures and clamps would be nice, and i need to think about it while developing the software, but i'm going to start with the simple stuff
05:09.10fennraster, waterline
05:09.42brlcadyeah, that will be very cool ;)
05:10.06fenndoes brlcad use nurbs?
05:10.44fennheh you should check out rapid prototyping.. it can produce working models fully assembled
05:11.24brlcadbrl-cad has a nurbs primitive and a slew of library support for manipulating them, but they are not one of the primitive types that are easily created via the gui
05:11.41fenn:(
05:11.49brlcadthe internal representation is implicit geometry, a vast array of primitive shapes
05:11.52fennbetter than "no" at least :)
05:12.26brlcadwe've used rapid prototyping .. fun stuff
05:13.00brlcadthe programmatic interface to nurbs should be there
05:13.05fennonce we get nurbs motion interpolation in EMC it should be easy to use a nurbs toolpath... easier than the usual 1000's of tiny lines to make one inch of curved surface
05:13.16brlcadthere are example codes that create/manipulate nurbs geometry in the src/proc-db directory
05:13.48brlcadthere's also been talk of adding a sweep primitive that would work on spline paths
05:13.59fennnice
05:14.13fenni was thinking of using sweeps with CSG to make a part preview
05:14.24fennsweep the tool shape along the tool path and you get the volume removed
05:14.28brlcadthat's actually why it's really needed :)
05:14.56brlcadnot for cam, but for modeling itself -- sweep out a path of an arbitrary shape and treat it as material, or a subtraction, etc
05:15.15brlcadso you can create curvature on curvature geoemtry
05:15.47fenna sweep makes a surface.. is it difficult to turn that surface into a solid?
05:15.48brlcadsomething brep does rather easily, but csg has difficulty with without a sweep primitive (which to date we actually ahven't needed)
05:16.03brlcadnope, not difficult at all
05:16.31brlcadthat's what I'm actually referring to -- using sweep as a primitive object shape/type/solid
05:16.41brlcadthat can be used in CSG just like any other primitive
05:17.26brlcadsimilar to the extrusion primitive, which is of course just an extrusion on a planar surface linearly
05:17.45fennshould be interesting to see a virtual part with a "milled" finish on it
05:18.04brlcadbut that same sweep primitive could be used for cutting purposes, filleting, roundings, etc
05:19.01brlcadmm.. a milled shader.. that would be neat too
05:19.13brlcadcould be done as a purely rendering effect too
05:21.13fenni meant as a side effect of using csg sweeps
05:21.36fennwould take forever to manipulate due to the complexity of the solid model
05:22.38fennsweep the path of the tip of the cutter at 1000 rpm, moving at 5 inches/min
05:23.06fennits not useful for anything, really
05:24.11brlcadahh, hehe yes
05:26.46brlcadwell, time to zZzZ -- hope to see you around more
05:34.07fennnite
05:34.18*** part/#brlcad fenn (~fenn@adsl-68-251-145-254.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
06:48.31tarzeauBuild libpng .........................: no (using system)
06:48.49tarzeauthat means you ship libpng, libregex and zlib sources in the one 20mb large tarball?
06:49.05tarzeaubut i don't use it since i have it on my system, and it's linked against my
06:49.22tarzeauBuild optimized release ..............: no
06:49.26tarzeaui probably want yes here?
06:49.56tarzeaudo really need ./configure complete ?
06:50.52tarzeauwhat's --enable-jove ?
06:54.49tarzeauhehe ah ok
07:04.40tarzeauhmm i got the first build problem (probably missing some library): if_ogl.c:2335: error: `GL_AUX_BUFFERS' undeclared (first use in this function)
07:04.43tarzeauif_ogl.c:2341: error: `None' undeclared (first use in this function)
07:26.45tarzeauok i can't figure out which library i need
07:26.58tarzeaubrlcad: if you can help me now
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050701

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050701

16:18.13*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
16:18.13*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || Preparations for 7.4.0 release under way
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19:21.42ctjctjHello all.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050702

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050702

00:22.38*** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
01:37.03Twingyhrm
01:42.24Twingyhrm
01:42.34Twingyconfigure is busted
01:43.59archivist?
01:44.56Twingychecking whether dependency tracking should be enabled... ./configure: line 1773: syntax error near unexpected token `else'
01:44.56Twingy./configure: line 1773: `else'
01:47.15*** part/#brlcad menotume (~meno@menotume.active.supporter.pdpc)
02:07.56Twingyconfigure from 3 days ago works
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07:59.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/ (adrt/libcommon/pack.c adrt/libcommon/unpack.c conv/g-adrt.c):
07:59.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: igvt is functional again, still needs further testing and a few optimizations
07:59.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: I'm to tired to apply right now.
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10:37.21tarzeauclock-: http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?imagename=we-are-merry-xmas.jpg&category=Buildings&date=2004-12-24
10:55.43clock-tarzeau: ehh, disgusting :)
19:55.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/define.h libutil/camera.c): fixed memory leak in camera utility.
22:15.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libcommon/unpack.c libtie/define.h):
22:15.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: re-optimized memory allocations in the mesh unpack function, all optimizations
22:15.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: that existed before the migration are back in now.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050703

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050703

01:09.16*** join/#brlcad Twingy2 (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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19:08.40*** join/#brlcad phcoder (~phcoder@pcp0011642003pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050704

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050704

01:35.26*** join/#brlcad ctjctj (~ctj@192.55.203.132)
02:56.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_superell.c: add the equation of an ellipsoid in the comments
02:57.13brlcadhowdy ctjctj
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03:49.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: stray else removed
04:23.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for bsd libgen.h header for basename/dirname
04:25.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: include the libgen.h header instead of overriding the prototype for basename
11:00.47*** join/#brlcad phcoder (~phcoder@pcp0011642003pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
14:43.31ctjctjhello brlcad
15:19.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: merge in the contributor details from the old developers.html page; special thanks to the cecom guys, merrit, zumbrunnen, smith, dray, and woo
15:22.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: more unfiled to filed; special thanks to satterfield (though he may have contributed code too?) and reed (gsi too?)
15:42.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: perform a select on the pipe instead of a blocking read in case the parent dies/fails without sending a response (e.g. no X11 connectivity). wait up to 10 seconds and then give up.
16:07.13ctjctjbrlcad, Harry Reed the younger did not contribute code to BRLCAD. All GSI contributions are marked correctly.  Special thanks to Harry Reed, JR. (The elder) because of the support he gave to Mike during the begining of the project.
16:17.34learnerctjctj, thanks for the clarification.. I think I've heard that 3 or 4 times now but can never seem to keep those two straight
16:18.20ctjctjlearner, No problem. The problem is that Harry Reed, JR is the Elder of the two Reeds.  The younger actually has a different middle name than his father.
16:18.48ctjctjlearner, are you Sean?
16:18.55learnerreed jr is listed under the mathematical, algorithmic, and geometric support section for the earlier work
16:19.22ctjctjYep, that's about right.  That means that Reed, JR and Mike did napkin work together.
16:19.23learnerctjctj, yep -- and I thought I recognized ctj correctly :)
16:19.59learnerheh
16:21.09ctjctjI'm impressed with the current release.  I've got to get my mods to the BoT up to you.  Added complete UV support.
16:21.57learnerwe're set to release 7.4 in a few days
16:22.36learnercomplete uv support sounds great
16:23.51learnerbetter yet, you could put the mods in directly if you give me your sf.net id :)
16:24.03learner:)
16:29.00ctjctjWhat sort of response are you getting support wise now that brlcad is open source?
16:30.53learnersupport-wise?
16:31.24ctjctjYeah, are you getting lots of new code?  What sorts of things are getting fixed/extended?  What sort of feed back are you getting?
16:31.38learnerfrom the OS community, it's been a pretty good response .. patches, bug and build fixes, feedback
16:32.04ctjctjGood!  Have you had anybody do a PoV to BRLCAD importer yet?
16:32.25learnerhehe, no not yet, though that's on the wish/todo list
16:33.06ctjctjI'd love to see some of the comparisons between the two.  Though it is a little difficult because PoV is so surface/triangle oriented.
16:33.47learnerit was an interesting tally that I put together a couple months ago for a report -- the number of bug fixes funded/directed internally versus the count external
16:34.07ctjctjWhat was the tally?
16:34.29learneryou'd probably be very interested in seeing the new high-speed triangle tracer that was recently added
16:35.12learneroh, I forget the exact numbers but something on the order of 4 to 1
16:35.32learnerso about 10 internal, 40 external.. something around there
16:35.55ctjctjYes I would.  The JRM people can't seem to wrap their minds around using anything but triangles.  They have beautiful gridded terrains.  Which the insist on feeding the terrain through a tool to "reduce the complexity" and then import the new terrain as tiles of BoTs....
16:36.25learnerit's the stuff being called adrt
16:36.42ctjctjWhat does adrt stand for?
16:36.44learnerincludes a high-speed triangle ray-tracer and a path tracer
16:37.05learnerheh, it's stood for several things so far
16:38.24learnerheh, trying to remember
16:38.40ctjctjWho's Twingy?
16:38.52learnertwingy pretty much wrote most of it, so most blame can be solidly placed with him
16:38.54ctjctjI noticed they were one of the locals.
16:39.20learnerADRT consists of 2 tools RISE (Realistic Image Synthesis Engine) and IGVT (Interactive Geometry Visualization Tool).
16:39.46learnerdon't think you've met him, new guy that started a couple years after I showed up
16:40.09ctjctjNope, I've not met him.  Or if I did, it was only in passing.
16:40.50learnerhere's a couple rise images from the path tracer:
16:40.52learnerhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/humvee.png
16:42.07ctjctjNice model. Shadows look good. Did it have to be hypersampled?
16:42.24learnerhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/stryker_slat.png
16:42.37learnerthat is a releaseable image, btw
16:43.29learnerthat's brl-cad geometry facetized and fed to rise, I believe they are both hypersampled
16:44.28ctjctjFucking A....  That is incredable.
16:45.12ctjctjI'd love to get the DB for the stryker image.
16:47.25learneryeah, the path tracing is very nice .. just very slow too
16:47.41learnertook a lot of horsepower to generate that image
16:48.54learnerthe "igvt" is a nice tool for spinning the whole thing in a shaded 3d in real-time
16:49.09learnerrt sits somewhere in between the two
16:49.23ctjctjHey, you have to remember that I started with a VGR 1.05 equivlent machine and that I spent 2 hours per image doing Ball On Table.
16:49.40learnerheh :)
16:50.18ctjctjYou guys are just spoiled.  It use to take 24 hours plus to do the benchmarks.  Now we do them in less than 5 minutes and complain...  *GRIN*
16:50.29learneri've been wanting to get the benchmarks running on simh (historic computing vax simulator project) .. clock cycle it to get a vgr 1.0
16:50.50learnerthe benchmarks are adaptive now too
16:51.26learnerno more "0.2" seconds to compute moss world
16:51.41learnerif the machine really is that fast, it will increase the workload
16:51.43ctjctjI had it working a bit ago.  The problem was that under FreeBSD I couldn't get the simh ethernet to work.
16:52.22ctjctjSo I had a bitch of a time moving cad stuff in and out.  I'll give it another try after the 7.4 release.
16:52.47learneri couldn't get it to work under os x either, but didn't need it -- i ended up mounting a file as a device, dd'ing the raw 'device' bytes to transfer files
16:54.08learneryeah, that was a pita -- but I did get a compile eventually :)
16:55.31ctjctjI'll see if I can get any sort of ether net to work under freebsd, if we can do that, then we should be able to get it to give us good stable numbers.
16:55.35learnerwell, gotta run out -- you have commit access now among a variety of other things now too so you should be able to check out non-anonymous
16:56.00ctjctjThanks lots.
16:56.34learnerHACKING file has the basics, though you probably know most of what's in there already
16:57.35learnerwe're on a monthly iteration release cycle now at least on the open source side with a new release pushed out at the beginning of every month
16:59.00learnergenerally try settle down commits a day or two before the end of the month in a pseudo mini-code freeze until release is made, with only bug/build fixes hopefully
16:59.35learnerif development is on a roll, though, we can always make a maintenance branch and stabilize that so head dev can continue -- only needed to do that once so far
17:21.46*** join/#brlcad TheLastSpartan (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
23:57.05*** join/#brlcad phcoder (~phcoder@pcp0011642003pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050705

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050705

01:00.37*** join/#brlcad Mac- (TC430HX@bwv38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
01:00.37Mac-hi there
01:00.37Mac-i going to change my AutoCAD to BRL-CAD
01:00.44Mac-but under Linux Slackware
01:01.22Twingycool
01:03.09Mac-but i have some questions
01:03.20Mac-i working on AMD K6-2 450MHz is it enough for BRL-CAD ?
01:03.29Mac-256MB of RAM
01:05.08Twingyyes
01:05.17Twingybut you won't be able to work with anything significantly large
01:05.41Twingyyou'll want 2GB to work on a vehicle that has complexity down to the nut and bolt
01:05.58Mac-2GB of RAM ????
01:06.07Twingyyes, that's standard where I work
01:06.17TwingyI just ordered a pair of machines with 8GB of ram 2 weeks ago
01:06.29Mac-no, i`m only student of mechanical engeenering division
01:06.46TwingyI'd seriously recommend spending $200 to upgrade to something faster
01:06.55Mac-on univeristy of minig and metallurgy in poland (Cracow)
01:06.55Twingylike a 1.5ghz walmart pc with 512MB
01:07.40Mac-now i working on 2D only
01:07.42Twingythen you might be able to work on some moderately complex geometry
01:07.46Twingyokie
01:08.04Twingydinner time, bbl
01:08.12Mac-and what about hardware acceleration of graphic card ?
01:08.16Mac-is there any ?
01:09.58Mac-now i have S3 Savage4 AGP, but wish change to Matrox G200 AGP
01:17.07brlcadMac-: that should be enough for very complex models regardless
01:17.34Mac-what does it mean 'very complex' ?
01:17.42brlcad256MB that is .. like he said, to do an _entire_ vehicle down to the nut, bolt, and wire
01:18.27Mac-but is there hardware acceleration for some graphic cards ???
01:18.33brlcadyou should be able to deal with models that are at least 100 MB in size
01:19.03brlcadit is opengl accelerated by default, but perhaps not in the manner you're thinking
01:19.29brlcadit won't matter a whole lot what your video card is as (again by default), it's a wireframe display in mged
01:19.47brlcadyour limits will be ray-trace time
01:19.52Mac-my models in AutoCAD had about less that 1MB :)
01:20.02brlcadyeah, those are "tiny" :)
01:20.31brlcadhave you used mged at all?
01:20.46Mac-no
01:21.03brlcadautocad is mostly geared towards drafting whereas mged is geared towards csg-based solid modeling
01:21.41brlcadthere is a sketch primitive type which will be very familiar to an autocad sketch, but mged's drafting capabilities are admitedly limited
01:21.54brlcadif you rebuild those models using csg, you'll be much better off
01:22.10brlcadshould shrink the size of your models too
01:22.21ctjctjMac, brlcad generates it's results on a pixel by pixel basis for the most part.  So the raytracing part (making great images) requires very little in the way of a video card.   The first time I used brlcad for image generation, my machine had 5MBs of memory, ran at just over 16Mhz and generated pretty dang good images.  Oh the video card had less than 512Kbytes of ram.
01:22.33Mac-but for now i have been use of AutoCAD only in 2D
01:24.15brlcadbrl-cad's mged is not well-suited for 2D-only ;)
01:24.15brlcadfor 2D only, you might want to consider qcad
01:24.15Mac-BRL-CAD isn`t for flat drawing ?
01:24.15brlcadthat said, I'd recommend trying out the mged tutorial provided on the website
01:24.32brlcadbrl-cad/mged isn't a drafting tool, though it can do some limited drafting via the sketch primitive
01:26.05brlcadautocad is actually a "CADD"
01:26.21brlcaddepending on whom you talk to at least ;)
01:27.02Mac-brl-cad is something like Inventor ???
01:28.40Mac-ok, thx for your help
01:28.42brlcadyeah, that's a little bit closer comparison, though still not quite the same
01:28.47Mac-bye for now
01:29.04brlcadbetter would be pro/e and unigraphics
01:29.08brlcadcya
01:29.26ctjctjYou are welcome, please feel free to come back or just to try BRL-CAD and see what it can do for you.
01:29.51Mac-i will try, promise :)
01:30.07Mac-bye
01:30.32brlcadctjctj: surprisingly enough, CAM/NC milling is one of the active open-source interests that quickly sprung up :)
01:31.08brlcadthere are several people interested in writing a g-gcode converter and other tools to add cam-capabilities
01:32.19ctjctjThe thing I wanted to do with DB5 was to add some parametric capabilities to our databases.
01:32.19brlcadoh god yeah
01:32.19brlcadparametrics and constraints
01:32.42ctjctjI had my "joint" stuff working with XML for about 30 seconds before somebody foobared it again.  :-(
01:32.58brlcadsomebody foobared it?
01:33.30brlcadjoint stuff hasn't changed in cvs in quite a while.. :)
01:33.32ctjctjYeah, release cycle and an argument with somebody over which XML parser we should use.
01:33.40brlcadheh, somebody
01:35.53brlcadi haven't played with a joint db in a couple years
01:36.07brlcaddwayne gave a quick demo back then
01:36.10ctjctjI don't know if it ever worked while you have been on the project.
01:36.20brlcadit worked then
01:36.45ctjctjWell, It doesn't work in the 6.* and later 5.* releases.
01:37.16brlcadhrm
01:37.38ctjctjBut with our modern machines, it should dang well fly.  The iteritive solver I wrote didn't dare do an update per itteration, but today, with our desk top machines, it should be able to do smooth mged motion.
01:37.39brlcadthe 'demo' was 6.x .. we did find a few bugs, but simple articulation worked
01:38.22brlcadmaybe :)
01:39.05ctjctjIt was nice to be able to send a single DB out with a joint file attached to reconfigure the model...    
01:39.27brlcadI very recently tried a simple animation (sans joints, just simple camera rotation) only to find very very wacky things going on -- seemed like a bug in the tabinterp and other table tools
01:39.37Twingyo.O
01:40.07brlcadhmm.. would be trivial to embed the joint file into the .g as a binary object now
01:41.18brlcadI don't doubt it did work.. but I don't think it does right now -- I tried reproducing the exact steps in a published report only to get very different behavior
01:41.31ctjctjHello Twingy, I'm Chris.
01:41.35*** join/#brlcad louipc (~louipc@Toronto-ppp221609.sympatico.ca)
01:41.40louipchi there
01:41.44brlcadI believe it has a lot to do with the fact that quaternions are not dumped out in the saveview scripts instead of transformation matrices
01:41.50brlcadhowdy louipc
01:42.06brlcads/not dumped/now dumped/
01:42.23louipcI've been looking for some decent CAD software for linux :D
01:42.25ctjctjTabinterp doesn't care.  It just does table interpulation.
01:43.32louipcwell right now I'm just doing 2D but eventually I'll be drawing 3D solid models to use in CAM applications
01:44.05ctjctjbrlcad, when we were using tabinterp, we'd dump a few keyframes, write a few scripts to extract the eye_pt and orientation, then plug those together in to a table which tabinterp would read.
01:44.35brlcadthat's what I was doing
01:45.18ctjctjlouipc, have you read any of the BRL-CAD documentation?  I'm not sure it will do what you want it to do.
01:45.36brlcadlike I said, I was following a set of published steps in a report -- it 'almost' would interp correctly, but it gave a slew of anamolies
01:45.49louipcI haven't read much
01:46.32brlcadlike going berserk around 180 and 360 and fairly randomly jumping to a different Z elevation for lengths at a time
01:47.11brlcadlouipc: there are tutorials and other documentation available at http://brlcad.org if you're interested
01:47.15Twingyah, hi, am working on a circuit right now
01:47.22ctjctjlouipc, BRLCAD is a solid modling system.  It uses CSG to create complex objects.  Since there is no explict surface representation, many standard algorithms for analysing models are not applicatlb.e
01:47.57ctjctjbrlcad, what you describe sounds like euler angles going bonkers.
01:48.09louipchmm I'll have to read more about it for sure
01:48.38ctjctjlouipc, we'll be glad to help you, but we'd rather you be happy then upset if our software doesn't match your needs.
01:49.20louipc*grin* thanks I understand, I'm a pretty laid back guy so no worries
01:51.07brlcadseveral very good papers came out at this year's international shapes and solids conference
01:51.26ctjctjCool.  Who is current team leader?
01:51.42brlcad...
01:52.04brlcadwell, as far as I know it's unchanged for the near future
01:52.31brlcadthough I'm the only one actually dedicated with a full man-year of time explicitly to brl-cad afaik
01:52.47brlcadyep
01:55.56brlcadgetting the package open sourced was specifically for the purposes of keeping it alive regardless of the various personal and 'corporate' politics that might/could have otherwise killed it
01:55.56louipc# sing An Appropriate Skimmer
01:55.56brlcadat least now, I could quit and keep working on the package indefinitely ;)
01:55.58louipcoops sorry
01:56.06louipc;)
01:56.14brlcad~dict skimmer
01:56.52louipcI was looking up coolant skimmers for the CNC machine in the shop *Grin*
01:56.56ctjctjI figured as much.  I tried to sign off on my stuff but the requirement to get it notarized slowed me down, then I was told it wasn't needed.  I'm glad it was released in spite of my fumble.
01:58.27brlcadit only took what.. 4 or 5 years?  that was a lot of continual pressing and meetings and e-mails and persistence ;)
01:59.43brlcadI think the package can really 'take off', it's very well poised for it
01:59.49ctjctjI think that something like 99% of my code was either public domain or given to the Army.  So those should have been "ok".  The other stuff had copyright requirements to announce my authorship when in verbose mode.
01:59.50brlcadmged's user interface is probably the largest detriment, windows support is probably the second (as much as I dislike and don't care about that platform)
02:01.56brlcadwrapper libraries :)
02:01.56brlcadlike tk
02:01.56brlcadbut not so fugly
02:01.56ctjctjThis was using "glut" and it still was contaminated.
02:02.42brlcadmm, modern glut is interesting, but still not practical for large apps -- no threading and different event loop supports
02:03.14ctjctjOh I understand that.  Just found the fact that they used glut to only be about 50% of the solution.
02:04.11brlcadsdl, clanlib, and maybe gtk or qt are the few big packages I'd consider if starting over (unless the language was constrained to non-C/C++)
02:06.03brlcadthe biggest decision is what to do about widgets -- go with a wrapper lib like sdl and qt provide using native widgets, draw your own and stick to just opengl, something else
02:06.10ctjctjI've not used SDL yet.  I don't like QT but that's because I'm addicted to gnome.
02:06.11brlcadgtk is nice, though it's the least cross-platform of the bunch (at least in terms of even just supporting windows, linux, and mac)
02:06.59brlcadit'd work, but you have to wait for the gtk guys to fix/support the other platforms (which they seem to be _very_ slow at doing sometimes) .. like os x aqua support
02:07.25brlcadcourse one does have the source, so if it really was a problem..
02:07.34brlcadbut then the motivation for using any lib is to avoid that
02:07.41ctjctjHave you tried to fix anything in GTK?
02:07.47brlcadnah
02:08.01brlcadit's a large codebase, I try to avoid that  ;)
02:09.33ctjctjEverything is three and four places removed from where I expect it to be.
02:10.10louipchey... I don't know much about these things but is wxWigets something like these libraries you're mentioning?
02:10.35ctjctjYes, it is louipc.
02:10.52louipcah, is that one any good?
02:11.33ctjctjBut, IMHO it goes in the wrong direction. It is more for moving windows apps to linux/unix than for moving in the other direction.  And I believe ithas a license that isn't "wonderful".
02:14.40louipcooh
02:14.40brlcadlouipc, there's also the issue of context creation (the windows) and then there's widgets (buttons, dialogs, knobs, etc) -- wxwindows is poor on the prior, aimed mostly at the latter
02:14.40brlcadit also does a 'meh' job at the widgets themselves imo
02:14.40ctjctjFor any windowing system, you have a couple of major components. "The event loop", "window control", and "objects/widgets"
02:14.40ctjctjThe event loop is often the easiest to deal with.   It normally has pretty direct translations, mouse buttons, mouse movements, key presses, and things like that.
02:19.14louipchehe I did that in Java ages ago, "addMouseListener()" :P
02:19.14ctjctjThe window creation is usually the hardest. It is so closely tied to the window system that it is easy for OS or window specific things to leak in to your generic window creation system.
02:19.14ctjctjI.e. "Hand the window creation function the X visual you want" or "use the hPallet when creating a window"
02:19.14brlcadmy current "biased choice" or preference is to only rely on a framework for the window and opengl context creation -- then do everything else internally (draw one's own widgets)
02:19.14brlcadi.e. basically treat it like a game interface
02:19.14ctjctjThen you have the widgets. They define your programming paradime(sp).  In addition, widgets ARE your look and feel, and if they aren't beautiful, people hate them.
02:19.15louipcthat's a lot more work eh?
02:19.15brlcadgui/widgets are often the most time-intensive aspects
02:19.15ctjctjFor example, MOTIF was the only game in town for high quality widgets for X Windows for many years. But because they were for pay, people left them behind till open-motif. But motif themes/widgets look boring and fugly by todays standards.
02:19.15louipcyeah for sure
02:24.44brlcadwooo.. damn that looks nice
02:24.44brlcadTwingy: the photon map rendering of moss completed :)
02:24.44ctjctjOne of Mike's project's was the "Bump project"  A virtual file system using tape backing.  Mike had all the code done, kernel mods, userland mods.  He built a generic set of scripts for the UI and tossed it over the fence.
02:24.44ctjctjCray Research picked it up, put a new gui on it, broke the user land stuff, then sold it for lots and lots and then sold 1000s of systems just to do "file migration"
02:24.44louipchorrible
02:24.45Twingyheh
02:25.35louipcwho
02:25.42ctjctjwhat?
02:30.18brlcadctjctj: nice ;)
02:31.55ctjctjMax gave me a G5 with 0.5 terrabyte to work with.  And a fibre channel interface.  Seems he expects me to add a few more terrabytes to the system in the next few months...  :-)
02:36.59brlcadwe're supposed to meet with max "rsn"
02:40.06brlcadTwingy: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/moss_pm.png
02:40.06ctjctjGood.  I'll try to see if I can show up at the same time.
02:40.06Twingya littler better
02:40.06brlcadheh
02:40.06Twingyyou save the photon map this time?
02:40.06Twingyoh
02:40.06Twingyyou said it didn't work
02:40.06Twingy*shrug*
02:40.06brlcadi did save it just in case
02:40.06Twingythe irradiance gathering on the other side of the box is bad
02:40.06brlcadthat's supposedly a million photons
02:40.06Twingynear the corner
02:40.06brlcadi noticed
02:40.06Twingythat's part of the 'T' degeneracy
02:40.06brlcadthe splotch up the side of the torus is wierd
02:40.08brlcaddunno if that's a reflection of the cone's top or something
02:40.23brlcadthe color bleeding all turned out quite nicely, though
02:40.48brlcadthat's a lot of shadow rays I threw at it
02:41.15brlcadyou know.. that corner of the box shouldn't have anything to do with irradiance gathering
02:42.15brlcador do you mean the boxes actual side facing away?
02:44.16brlcadTwingy, took 13 hours to fire those million global photons, 256 irradiance rays  (most of the time processing the irradiance cache progress)
02:45.23Twingyrt.cx/~justin/images/moss_pm.png
02:46.19brlcadheh
02:46.28brlcadno?
02:46.52brlcadi'd expect you'd get photons reflecting between the box and the surface several times
02:46.55Twingyno, it's gathering past the box
02:47.08Twingythe box wasn't acting as a boundary for the irradiance gathering
02:47.16Twingyas it should be
02:47.58Twingymain reason why I dislike photon mappin
02:48.00Twingyg
02:48.51TwingyI mean
02:48.58Twingyit's better than ambient phong
02:51.34Twingybut it's still far from path tracing
02:51.34brlcadthat it is
02:51.34Twingyif you're looking for something in between it's just fine
02:51.34brlcadshould shove moss into rise and see what 13 hours can do
02:51.34Twingy1 box or cluster?
02:51.34TwingyI have a utility now
02:51.34brlcadwopr
02:51.34Twingyg-adrt
02:51.34brlcadi noticed
02:51.34Twingyoh, give it 1 hour
02:51.34Twingyand you'd have almost perfect rendering
02:51.34brlcadg-adrt does a tesselation pass?
02:51.34Twingyno
02:51.34Twingyit expects bots
02:51.34TwingyI'd like to add auto tesselation into it at some point
02:51.35Twingybut it creats the adrt project framework
02:51.36Twingyyou just need to be sure to position your camera and put a light source in the scene
02:51.36TwingyI don't have g-adrt pulling light source info from shaders
02:51.36brlcadmoss's open-air wouldn't be an issue for the path tracer?
02:51.36Twingyjust color
02:51.40Twingynope
02:51.42Twingyno issue at all
02:51.44brlcadgood
02:51.51brlcadi'll have to try it post-release sometime
02:51.57Twingyyep
02:52.09brlcadmaybe whip up a quick tutorial
02:52.26Twingyafter july 12 I can focus on making it a little less expert-friendly
02:53.03brlcadafter july 12, it'll be siggraph prep time
02:53.31brlcadI should plan out some sort of schedule for the BoF
02:53.41Twingyyah
02:54.11Twingyhow long is the bof?
02:55.59brlcadan hour
03:02.19brlcadctjctj: for what it's worth, there's a BRL-CAD BoF at Siggraph this year "BRL-CAD: Open Source Solid Modeling" .. interesting to see what kind of response/interest there is
03:02.19louipcactually I think BRL-CAD is pretty much what I've been looking for, it has some features that I don't need but that's ok
03:03.33louipcI'd like to try adding some CAM extention to it
03:04.00brlcad~seen clock
03:04.00ibotbrlcad: i haven't seen 'clock'
03:04.02brlcad~seen clock_
03:04.02ibotbrlcad: i haven't seen 'clock_'
03:04.06brlcadhrm
03:04.26brlcadlouipc: that would be very cool
03:05.08ctjctjbrlcad, I wish I was going to SIGGRAPH.   Every year I put it in the budget and every year something comes up.
03:05.19brlcadlouipc: most interesting would probably be either mged extensions and/or a new tool for converting geometry to machining code
03:06.11ctjctjIt would be interesting to see if using NMGs to get a surface representation which could then be used to feed a CNC...
03:06.17louipcyeah that would be the first step
03:07.33ctjctjPart of the fun will be adding the "tweeks" needed to convert a virtual object to a real object.  Such as the fact that pro/e, by default, slightly slopes sides for "better mold release" and other things like that.
03:10.49brlcadbah, let'em turn the cnc upside down and shake it ;)
03:11.13brlcadthen put "crane required for proper operation" in the docs
03:12.49ctjctjI attended a pro/e demo a couple of years ago.  Most of the stuff they had was about turning pretty math into ugly reality.  Things like describing the radius of the "line" where a cylendar joined a plate.  In math terms, that's a right angle, but in cnc terms, there is a little rounding that happens there.  On purpose.  To keep the strength of the join up.
03:12.58ctjctjOtherwise things break at the joint... :-(
03:14.31ctjctjthink of dropping a RCC against a ARB8. Then drop a torus around the RCC such that the center of the major axis was at the surface of the arb8 and the major radius was equal to the major radius of the RCC.
03:14.47brlcadyep
03:15.31brlcadthat's interesting .. hard to intuit
03:15.36ctjctjExcept that there is a limit on the size of the torus, otherwise the angle is to steep, so they actully make the torus a little smaller and bury it a little deeper.  And pro/e has 100s or 1000s of these sorts of rules.
03:16.40brlcadthere's a new primitive that I've been dying to add ever since I got started on the super ellipsoid
03:16.48brlcada sweep primitive
03:17.04brlcadthat would solve the curvature on curvature problem we currently have
03:17.34ctjctjThen you add the external analysis program to do things like "fluid flow under pressure" to allow them to verify that the thing just created can be created by injection molding or hot metal or what ever.  It was impressive.
03:18.04brlcade.g. take your RCC against and ARB8 example and make it RCC against RCC .. we can't model a blend on that seam continuously
03:18.11brlcadwe could with a sweep primitive
03:19.07ctjctjThe down side?  Pro/e had a hard time displaying anything much bigger than a widget.   I think they were using an O2 and wouldn't show us a complete cylender head, much less a complete engine or vehicle.
03:19.38brlcadyeah.. a sweep primitive would give springs too
03:19.55ctjctjI'm still impressed with P.T.'s math for the particle solids.
03:19.56brlcadheh, pro/e's a dog still on large models
03:20.44ctjctjDid you hear I did a brlcad movie a couple of years ago?  Had about 3 billion solids in the database.
03:21.36brlcadthe missile fly through?
03:22.09brlcadi did see a missile movie, but maybe not the finished
03:22.25ctjctjNope, it was a helo fly through of fort AP Hill.  Near the drop zone.  sound track was "low rider" and "danger zone".
03:22.36brlcadahh, don't think so
03:22.45brlcadreleasable? :)
03:23.23ctjctjStarted with the helo at altitude of about 2000 meters, did a slow slant into a near target indicator, then did nape of the ground  (1-2 meters) till egress.
03:23.44brlcadusing tabinterp? :)
03:24.40ctjctjI don't remember the size of the terrain, but I had 1/2 million trees planted correctly.
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03:26.05ctjctjIs there anybody else that's real in this channel?
03:26.26brlcadyep, only three aren't real
03:26.46ctjctjibot, archivist and CIA-5?
03:26.48brlcadthough we all idle differently
03:26.58brlcadsorry, 4
03:27.12brlcadChanServ, CIA-5, ibot, TheLastSpartan (usually known as guu)
03:27.41brlcadseveral timezones represented
03:27.57ctjctjI can see that.
03:28.20ctjctjI've been missing Mike and the CAD team a lot these last few weeks.
03:48.40brlcadhere's the list if you happen to know where any of the folks under "To Be Filed" fall
03:48.43brlcadhttp://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/AUTHORS?rev=HEAD
03:49.59brlcadthey're "at least" special thanks .. main question is whether they submitted code, whether it was substantial, etc
03:50.09brlcadto be filed is at the end
03:50.10ctjctjcorrection: CTJ: Paladin Software with out an "inc" and before JRMTech, please.
03:50.44ctjctjAnd Cray Research, Inc before Geometric Solutions, inc.
03:51.25ctjctjReed, Jr., Harry was the head of the BRL, NOT a member of Geometric solutions.
03:53.10ctjctjAnd the special thanks Reed, Harry needs a JR.
03:53.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: add cray research and reorder affiliations for johnson
03:53.36ctjctjAdam Dray from geometric solutions, inc.  He is also a code contributor. More than special thanks.
03:53.49brlcadhrm, I swear someone corrected me differently re reed
03:54.02ctjctjJohn Ousterhout is the author of TCL/Tk.
03:54.26ctjctjHarry Reed, Jr is the ELDER of the two and was the head of the BRL.
03:54.34brlcadyeah, though tcl/tk isn't an affiliation :)
03:55.04ctjctjHarry Reed NO JR, is the younger and contributed both as a member of BRL and Geometric Solutions.
03:56.02ctjctjJohn K. Ousterhout is founder and CEO of Electric Cloud, Inc.
03:56.28brlcadif I'm not mistaken, though -- his 'contribution' was not through that affiliation, he was self-consulted
03:56.39brlcads/consulted/consulting/
03:57.07brlcadwhere does dray fall in the timeline?
03:57.16brlcadnames are listed cronologically
03:57.18ctjctjAdam worked for me at GSI.
03:57.44ctjctjJohn Ousterhout did tcl/tk at U.C. Berkeley.
03:57.47brlcadwe have all the gsi modifications now, btw
03:58.00ctjctjGreat!
03:58.24ctjctjI know david becker.   I think he was Cray Research.
03:58.25brlcadand a few of the pretty models.. which the air force is being a pain about
03:58.47ctjctjThe air force should be a pain about some of those models.
03:59.36brlcadsome of them, but not one in particular
03:59.50brlcadtrying to get release authority approval for it, still pending
03:59.50ctjctjBob Miles is one of the original bunch of people Mike gathered in the lab in 394.  He was famous for "It compiles,ship it" and then going on vacation.
04:00.04brlcadhehe
04:00.24ctjctjMMDF was one of the places Bob worked on.
04:00.53ctjctjMusgrave worked with us through Max.  So that would be about the time Lee was going back to school.
04:01.17ctjctjSorry, Let me see, years fly by so fast when you are having fun.
04:01.24brlcadbefore reschley?
04:02.01ctjctjAdam Draw was post Sue Muuss and long after Reschley.  Remember that Reschley was also part of the 2nd group in to the 394 lab.  And stayed on in part till very near the end.
04:02.30ctjctjI'd guess that adam was around 1995 time frame.  And only there for a year or so.
04:03.14brlcadhmm.. perhaps before laut then
04:03.18ctjctjI know George E Toth but didn't meet him in person.  Is Dave Rodgers in that list?
04:03.48ctjctjWolff was part of the original team then went off to head up the NSF Internet.
04:04.13brlcadno rodgers listed
04:05.14ctjctjHe needs to be added under mathmaticl help and is attributed as US Navel Acadamy
04:05.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: swap the harry reeds (yet again?), dray was with gsi and contributed significant amounts of code
04:05.46brlcadwolff or rodgers?
04:05.58ctjctjDave Rodgers is math from USNA
04:06.33brlcadbefore darisson?
04:06.38brlcader, davisson
04:07.29ctjctjI meet Dave Rodgers in the early 90's and he'd been working with Mike for years at that point.  Dave Rodgers wrote a book with a title simular to "Math for computer graphics"
04:07.48ctjctjI'd put Dave Rodgers after Ed Davisson.
04:08.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: added david rodgers of usna for providing mathematical support
04:08.31brlcadEd's pretty cool to work out math problems with
04:08.46ctjctjOne of David Rodger's books has an image that Mike rendered for a cover.
04:08.53brlcadI go to him whenever I get stuck on some math formulation
04:08.58brlcadwhich seems to happen a lot
04:09.21brlcadoh, that's neat
04:09.27brlcadthat'd make for a good plug
04:09.29ctjctjYep, I like Ed.  One of the shitty things about being "the expert" for my team is that I don't have the math back up I need.
04:12.23ctjctjI can't find George E. Toth on google. :-(
04:14.29brlcadwhere does miles fit in the special thanks list?
04:14.48brlcadbefore jill?
04:14.58ctjctjYes, long before Jill.
04:15.28ctjctjJill Smith came in as team leader around 1988-1989.  Bob Miles left BRL before then.
04:16.13ctjctjthat's a bad date for Jill's first interactions with BRLCAD
04:16.44ctjctjLet me see, Weaver, Dietz and Mike were the first ones.
04:16.52brlcadjill, zumbrunnen, monk, and all of cecom where shoe-horned in "somewhere"
04:17.17ctjctjZum Brunnen was GSI time frame.  Same time as Adam Dray.
04:17.56brlcadcept they're in different lists
04:18.55ctjctjSean, I'm sorry, in my head they go "Jill showed up before I left cray.  Adam and Zum Brunnen were after I divorced Gwen." but I don't have any dates to put to those events.  :-(
04:20.52brlcadhehe
04:22.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: miles sneaks onto the special thanks list, becker was reportedly with cray research
04:24.27brlcad18 left to be filed, not too shabby
04:25.08ctjctjI'm trying to remeber if Terry Slattery was contributing to BRLCAD or just Bump.
04:27.47ctjctjI think that George E. Toth was a BRL person.
04:29.03brlcadi know a lot of the remaining, if not most all of them are just special thanks -- folks he talked to or that worked with someone on the team
04:29.12brlcador managerial support of some sort
04:30.51brlcadwhen the new website comes on-line, i'd like to give a little more historic detail about the key contributors somewhere on it
04:31.19brlcadthe 4 bins don't do some of those names justic
04:31.23ctjctjI'll do what I can do to help.
04:36.39brlcadI'm planning on writing a technical paper on the history of brl-cad here at some point (maybe while I'm at siggraph if I can)
04:36.59brlcadfrom inception to open source
04:37.34Twingysean, when you back at work?
04:37.38TwingyI was gonna call judy
04:37.47brlcadprobably would appreciate some degree of input/contribution for it
04:38.07brlcadif you'd be willing, that is
04:38.08ctjctjI'll try to hang here a bit more, if that will help.
04:38.31brlcadTwingy: judge judy?
04:38.36brlcadoh, office lady
04:38.53brlcadTwingy: I'm there now, but won't/shouldn't be tomorrow
04:39.51brlcadctjctj: that would definitely help (on many levels)  ;)
04:41.21brlcadoh, speaking of open source brl-cad adoptions.. this is one of the more recent and very neat projects: http://ronja.twibright.com/
04:42.24brlcadhe provides drawings, instructions schematics for making those point to point optical datalink connections, made .g's http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
04:42.58brlcadthose are brl-cad renderings too, btw
04:43.57brlcadif clock ever shows up, he's always happy to talk about it in detail :)
04:46.13ctjctjLooks neat.
04:48.08brlcadcurrently at 96 sites around the world (albeit most are in czech repulic and most somewhere in europe)
04:49.15ctjctjI would have loved something like that a few years ago.  How do you get 10mbit/sec across a road?
04:51.45Twingypringles can
05:02.40ctjctjWhat is surprising Pimpi?
05:03.44Pimpi[5:28]              * brlcad pokes Pimpi to wake u p
05:04.52Pimpiouch
05:05.11ctjctjWell, I'm going to head off to bed.  Night all.
05:05.14brlcadahh, i guess that was a bit early for you ;)
05:05.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: dang it, nfds is off by one -- check our own pipe fd ya dolt.
05:05.18brlcadcya ctjctj
05:08.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: cull the blocking read now that select is selectively selecting appropriately
05:09.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fixed mged backgrounding when parent quickly fails
06:08.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: toth was possibly BRL
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15:06.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: experimenting with more efficient BSP building methods.
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16:29.51ctjctjHey, do we have a document describing the changes made to the directory structure from before the src's were in the src subdirectoryl.
16:48.06learnerhmm, some of the directory structure is covered in the HACKING file
16:49.44learnerfor the most part, the directories simply moved to src/ if they contained source or src/other/ if it was not our code
16:50.44learnerh/ was renamed to include/
16:51.11learnerother than that, all the directories should pretty much be intact
16:51.43learnerthere was no combining/splitting as part of the process
16:59.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: mr. jackson of gov computer news has requested to be updated on new releases of BRL-CAD
17:00.29ctjctjThanks.  I'm going to take a look at what it takes to drop the new g_bot.c into the code.
17:02.27learnerahh, that much I know fairly well having been the last person to add a new primitive
17:24.13learnerhere's a quick summary http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/superell.html
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21:39.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: adding region map support.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050706

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050706

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00:44.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: add a new initial NEWS ARTICLES section that includes muuss' original raytrace news article, a linux desktop app article, an ajem article by wasmund, and the recent government computer news article by jackson
00:44.37TwingyI'm contemplating the train if the new machines get here sean
00:45.44ctjctjThe train?
00:46.16learnerctjctj, taking the train to siggraph
00:48.10learner60 hours of comfortable travel where you can work at least a solid 10 hours every day uninterrupted for 3 days before and after the conference
00:49.08Twingydo they have a gym?
00:49.29Twingyand a shower?
00:49.54Twingythe shower would have to be quite tiny
00:51.08learnerthere is a shower, dunno about a gym (doubt it)
00:55.29Twingyok
00:55.30learnera jacuzzi train car would be great
00:55.33Twingythen I'll run along side the train car
00:55.40Twingywith some jacuzzi women?
00:55.46learneryou could do laps up and down the train
00:55.48TwingyI'd take a champagne room over a jacuzzi room
00:56.15learneryou can get champagne
00:57.42ctjctjWhere is siggraph this year?
00:58.17Twingymy basement
00:59.01learnerL.A.
00:59.22learnernext year is up in boston
00:59.23ctjctjDang, that would be a wonderful bike ride.
00:59.51learner:)
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01:18.34louipchey folks
01:18.44learnerhowdy loui
01:22.19louipcis there a reason the delete key doesn't work in the command window?
01:26.07louipcor.. rather why it doesn't delete to the right of the cursor
01:32.43learneras silly as it sounds, I don't think anyone has ever seriously requested that
01:39.26learnereither that, or some technical reason related to solaris keyboards
01:39.54ctjctjIt comes from the fact that the "delete" character use to be used interchangably with the backspace key.
01:39.56learnerdelete and backspace are often reversed character codes on some systems
01:40.08louipcah hehe
01:40.10ctjctjI.e. ctrl-h and 0x7f were treated the same.
01:40.33ctjctjThe reason for that was that some keyboards generated 0x08 for the backspace key and others generated 0x7f.
01:40.47learnerit's easy enough to have it forward-delete
01:41.00learnerif you enable vi-mode, it behaves that way
01:41.39louipcah
01:42.01louipcI'm more familiar with the emacs keys
01:42.07ctjctjPart of what we have to deal with is code written 20 years ago that is still great.
01:42.13louipcnot that I know much though hehe
01:42.54louipchey I'd be glad to help you guys... probably with non programming tasks maybe the website and stuff
01:43.07learnerhelp's always welcome :)
01:43.09ctjctjlearner, it will not affect anybody until some 4 star is getting a demo in a vault and the delete key "doesn't work right"
01:43.22louipcwhat's BRL-CAD licensed under now anyways?
01:44.41learnerlouipc, it's a large code base so different portions are licensed accordingly -- for the most part, the lgpl covers the libraries; gpl covers the binariesl bsd covers the build infrastructure, regression tests, and benchmark suite
01:45.12louipcah wow
01:46.33louipcI guess its clear in the source code what's covered by what?
01:46.43learnerpretty much
01:47.22learnerthe bsd files have their license embedded, there's a license header on most all the sources (should be on everything)
01:47.32learnerthe COPYING file goes into a little more detail
01:48.25learnerhttp://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/COPYING?rev=HEAD
01:50.45learnerfor what it's worth, the delete key binding only affects the tclified mged -- it's unbound in classic mode
01:51.35learnerso I'd bet it's mainly because bob is a solaris keyboard nut where the keys are reversed
01:53.15learneroh, it's getting it
01:53.28learnerinserting gibbrish when you press delete
01:53.34learner~7 or somesuch
01:54.12learnerahh, it's inserting 3~
02:31.08learnerahh, I think the reason it's set to backwards delete is far more simple than presumed -- the default mged keybinding mode is emacs bindings.. the default binding for delete in emacs is a backwards delete
02:31.51learneraside from that probably being one of the first bindings users override when they start making their own .emacs.. :)
02:33.07learnergood to know, not that it really matters much
02:40.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: comment on the fact that delete being bound to backwards delete by default matches default emacs bindings
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04:38.40learnerhowdy Maloeran
04:39.42MaloeranGreetings
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04:45.34louipchar har I made a goblet
04:49.45learnerheh
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15:18.49locmonhow's it going?
15:21.06locmonthis CGI client is pretty good
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15:27.53brlcadfor some browsers that client is workable, for others it's a pain
15:28.08brlcadbetter to use a real irc client for prolonged use ;)
15:28.19louipcyeah definitely
15:28.36louipcfor some reason I can't connect with a real one at school here
15:29.48brlcadahh, probably blocked
15:30.00brlcadyou'd have to ssh to somewhere not blocked
15:52.36louipcknow any places where I could get free ssh access?
16:03.49louipctake it easy folks
17:47.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: photon map cache file doesn't work (seems to crash rt on use)
19:16.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: region map names now replaces brl-cad names if the -r argument is used.
19:43.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: if color is 0 0 0 (i.e, not assigned), then supply it with 75% gray.
19:53.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: unsigned char
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20:38.00brlcadmm.. lookie who it is
20:42.46brlcadnot very well apparently ;)
20:43.15DTRemenakhard to lurk with so few people & things to hide behind
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21:32.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/master/ (compnet.c compnet.h main.c master.c master.h): adding support to communicate with a component server, i.e fuzzy fault tree viewer.
21:34.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03dtremenak * 10brlcad/ (COPYING HACKING doc/cvs.txt): doc nitpicks - "it's" is not the possessive form, can't have a vast majority of two exclusive styles, typos
21:49.53brlcad:)
22:10.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/master/ (Makefile.am compnet.c compnet.h master.c): slowly adding hooks to talk to component server.
22:34.26*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
23:03.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: define BRLCAD_VERSION in brlcad_config.h and rename BRLCAD_DATA_DIR to BRLCAD_DATA (keeping prior until Makefile.am conversions are complete) performing the same protection checks done for BRLCAD_ROOT
23:05.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:09.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: disable commit e-mails for the majority of the s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/ conversion
23:11.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (14 files in 14 dirs): s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/g
23:18.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/geometree/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:18.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:19.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:19.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:20.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/nirt/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:21.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/pl-dm/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:21.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/PictureTypeA/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:23.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/PictureTypeB/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:23.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/PictureTypeC/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:23.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/PictureTypeD/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:24.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/PictureTypeE/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:24.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/PictureTypeF/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:25.07brlcadhmm.. i suppose I shoulda xargs'd that
23:25.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:25.29archivist_methinks somebody fixed something it just built on my debian box
23:25.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:26.02brlcadheh, about time
23:26.18brlcadthat shoulda been some changes from a few days ago
23:26.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/util/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:26.37archivist_just doing make install
23:27.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: re-enable commit e-mails after s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
23:30.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: bu_brlcad_path is deprecated in favor of bu_brlcad_data and bu_brlcad_root depending on whether one is searching for data resources or not
23:47.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: update the win32 install path to brlcad7_2
23:54.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: provide a BU_DIR_SEPARATOR define consistently for directory path separator
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050707

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050707

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02:11.20louipchi
02:34.58brlcadhowdy louipc
02:35.18brlcaddrink from that goblet yet? :)
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02:48.56louipc_nope I drank from a mug though
02:49.30louipc_I found a bug in mged I think..
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02:55.55louipcack
03:05.58brlcadoh?
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06:03.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: need to define BRLCAD_VERSION unquoted and add the quotes to get the proper shell variable expansion
06:04.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/Makefile.am: s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/
06:05.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (pro-engineer/Makefile.am vfont/Makefile.am): s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/g
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06:06.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (pix/Makefile.am src/other/awf/Makefile.am): s/BRLCAD_DATA_DIR/BRLCAD_DATA/g
06:10.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/remapid.c: duplicate extern declarations of brlcad_path.c funcs
06:32.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/master/compnet.c: Connection code in place.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050708

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050708

00:01.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: (log message trimmed)
00:01.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: woosh! a complete rewrite of the brl-cad location routine.. bu_brlcad_path is
00:01.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: now quite deprecated, being replaced by bu_brlcad_data and bu_brlcad_root
00:01.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: depending on wheter you are looking for data resources or not. the routines
00:01.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: presently no longer bomb and search with quite a bit more methodology than
00:01.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: before. for bu_brlcad_root, the search order is now BRLCAD_ROOT environment
00:01.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: variable then BRLCAD_ROOT compile-time path then /usr/brlcad then current dir.
00:02.27brlcadshibby
00:04.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: add tcl hook functions for bu_tcl_brlcad_root and bu_tcl_brlcad_data for their corresponding tcl commands
00:05.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vfont.c: use bu_brlcad_data instead of bu_brlcad_path now
00:07.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: use bu_brlcad_data instead of bu_brlcad_path now. search for the tclscripts directory in a slightly more intelligent order. this needs to be improved for finding the tclscripts directory
00:10.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cat-fb.c: use bu_brlcad_data instead of bu_brlcad_path now
00:11.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-dm.c: use bu_brlcad_data now instead of bu_brlcad_path
00:13.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/lib/ (PictureTypeE.itcl FbPage.itk): use bu_brlcad_root instead of bu_brlcad_path for bin dir
00:28.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (liboptical/material.c mged/cmd.c mged/rtif.c): use bu_brlcad_root now for bin dirs and bu_brlcad_data for data dirs
00:42.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/morphedit.tcl: use bu_brlcad_root instead of bu_brlcad_path now for finding the bin dir
00:42.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mike.tcl: use bu_brlcad_data now instead of bu_brlcad_path
00:43.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/shaders.tcl: use bu_brlcad_data now instead of bu_brlcad_path
00:44.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: use bu_brlcad_data instead of bu_brlcad_path now
00:47.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mged.tcl: comment on what the html manual search order precedence should be
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03:40.01jrobeyhola
03:41.06learnerhola
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07:45.01*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.2.6 is now posted (20050612) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon || Preparations for 7.4.0 release under way
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15:15.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsw:
15:15.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: trivial workspace removed
15:15.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: look at misc/win32-msvc for a more useful one
15:15.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: by doubleclicking on librt.dsp you will get this file back
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15:18.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.ncb: This file is a binary file used by ClassView and is specific to the local machine.
15:19.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.opt: This is a binary file that is the workspace options file for the local computer.
15:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp:
15:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: adapted to version 7 directory structure
15:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: usage of vers.vbs to create version/vers.c
15:24.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: configurations added
15:26.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: librt.dsw , librt.ncb, librt.opt removed
15:34.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/common.h:
15:34.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: no HAVE_CONFIG_H in non-autoconf build environments (e.g. win32)
15:34.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: the define for win32 is _WIN32
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20:01.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 3 dirs): bug fix, adding more component net stuff.
22:16.59Twingyhrm
23:48.16Twingybrlcad_path.c: In function `bu_path_results':
23:48.16Twingybrlcad_path.c:95: error: `BRLCAD_VERSION' undeclared (first use in this function)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050709

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050709

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02:45.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
02:45.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: made the arguments for slave and observer more convenient, debugging python
02:45.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: adrt.blah bug.
02:46.11louipchow's it going?
02:52.43Twingygood
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04:45.33brlcadTwingy: sounds like you have to rerun autogen.sh (BRLCAD_VERSION comes from configure.ac/brlcad_config.h)
04:46.19Twingyk
04:51.57brlcadcvs up too
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17:39.13cad697list
17:39.24cad697hi buddy
17:39.33cad697is anyone there?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050710

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050710

01:51.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): basic component server communication complete.
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02:05.15learnerTwingy, here's one of the devices I was talking about way back when  http://www.trimble.com/pathfinderproxh.shtml
02:05.43learnerthey have other devices that are sub-centimeter, but I don't know how mobile they are
02:11.55learnerbuilding the binary release tonight, so get any last commits in before I tag if you want it shipping -- it'll take about 2 hours for my build tests to complete
03:00.08Twingyokie
03:06.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 2 dirs): updated the NEWS and README
03:10.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/ (Makefile.am isst.h isst_struct.h): renaming IGVT to ISST
03:14.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (README isst/Makefile.am isst/isst.h isst/isst_struct.h): Renaming IGVT to IVAT instead (Interactive Vulnerability Analysis Tool)
03:15.58TwingyI should be done in about 45
03:22.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ivat/ (Makefile.am ivat.h ivat_struct.h): Migration 10% done.
03:23.05brlcadk
03:24.22TwingyI guess we'll do the python stuff next release?
03:28.47*** join/#brlcad Pimpi (~frank@p548191D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
03:33.40brlcadyeah, and improve the automatic sdl checking
03:34.07brlcadmake it compiled by default when possible
03:35.02brlcadshouldn't take long, but we're already a few days off schedule
03:36.02brlcadthe monthly releases really should be automated so this doesn't become an issue, then it'd just be a matter of when to make additional releases
03:48.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (44 files in 9 dirs): 75% done IGVT -> IVAT conversion.
03:53.37*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
03:55.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: IGVT->IVAT conversion 85% done
03:58.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/ (19 files in 4 dirs): IGVT->ISST 90%
04:00.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/Makefile.am: IGVT -> IVAT 91%
04:02.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/igvt/ (master/Makefile.am observer/Makefile.am slave/Makefile.am): IGVT->IVAT 92%
04:12.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (47 files in 12 dirs): follow rossberg's example and remove the other unnecessary ncb, opt, and dsw windows build files. leaving the .dsp files in place, though they will need to be added to the workspace in misc/win32-msvc
04:14.07Twingyhrm
04:14.19Twingyconfigure is not making my Makefile
04:27.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: add win32-msvc to the subdir traversal path
04:27.16Twingyjust about done
04:29.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: gotta generate the makefile for misc/win32-msvc
04:32.18Twingyautomake is failing
04:32.21brlcadno rush, still testing
04:32.23Twingylemme try and clear my cache
04:32.31brlcadnah, you need to update -dP
04:32.42TwingyI just did
04:32.44TwingyI'll do it again
04:32.53brlcadfor that configure.ac change
04:32.58Twingyk
04:33.49Twingysean
04:33.53Twingycan you ssh into xon
04:35.48TwingyI can't ssh into any machines
04:35.57Twingyyou know what's up?
04:36.37brlcadheh, you're having that problem now too?
04:36.41Twingyyes
04:36.42brlcadlee was having that problem
04:36.45Twingysomething is broke
04:36.46brlcadso was erik
04:36.59brlcadI think you've expired in kerberos or something
04:37.09Twingy[justin@borg:~/src/brlcad]$ ./autogen.sh
04:37.09TwingyFound GNU Autoconf version 2.59
04:37.09TwingyFound GNU Automake version 1.9.5
04:37.09TwingyFound GNU Libtool version 1.5.10
04:37.09TwingyAutomatically preparing build ... Warning: autoreconf failed
04:37.10TwingyAttempting to run the configuration steps individually
04:38.11Twingyconftest.c:2: error: syntax error before "me"
04:38.11Twingyconfigure:6779: $? = 1
04:38.11Twingyconfigure: failed program was:
04:38.11Twingy| #ifndef __cplusplus
04:38.11Twingy|   choke me
04:38.12Twingy| #endif
04:38.14Twingyconfigure:6914: ch
04:38.33brlcadhmm.. "me"
04:38.54TwingyI'm gonna take a break while you fix that
04:39.56brlcaddoesn't make much sense
04:40.14brlcadthat's not our code
04:41.28brlcadtry autogen.sh --verbose
04:41.39brlcadsee which step it's failing on exactly
04:41.54brlcadalso make sure you've got no cvs update conflicts
04:41.57Twingyk
04:43.58Twingyconfigure.ac:2507: required file `src/adrt/igvt/Makefile.in' not found
04:43.58Twingyconfigure.ac:2507: required file `src/adrt/igvt/master/Makefile.in' not found
04:43.58Twingyconfigure.ac:2507: required file `src/adrt/igvt/observer/Makefile.in' not found
04:43.58Twingyconfigure.ac:2507: required file `src/adrt/igvt/slave/Makefile.in' not found
04:43.58Twingyconfigure.ac:2507: required file `src/adrt/misc/Makefile.in' not found
04:44.04Twingychecking
04:44.37TwingyI dunno where it's getting igvt from
04:44.43TwingyI don't have that string in any files
04:44.46Twingynor does a directory exist
04:46.18brlcadthat would be the problem then
04:46.29brlcadit's probably specified in configure.ac
04:46.43brlcadyou have to edit configure.ac whenever you add/remove directories
04:47.24Twingyyah, forgot about that
04:48.05brlcadwhat happened to igvt?
04:48.16Twingyit's now ivat
04:48.29brlcadheh
04:48.32brlcadand that stands for?
04:48.42Twingyinteractive vulnerability analysis tool
04:49.02brlcadhmm
04:49.36Twingyit's no longer a geometry viewing tool
04:49.47Twingyit's been pushed into the vulnerability realm
04:50.23Twingyit's entire interface revolves around vulnerability assessment
04:52.04brlcadto you.., it's still fairly general tool utility-wise
04:52.24Twingynot really... you haven't seen it lately
04:52.36TwingyLee recently called it "the shotline tool"
04:52.46Twingysince it didn't have a definitive name yet
05:35.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/configure.ac: updated
05:37.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/misc/Makefile.am: back in
05:41.14Twingybuilding
05:48.20Twingyback
05:51.04Twingyworking build issues
05:53.50Twingybuild is good
05:53.53Twingycommiting
05:55.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/ (INSTALL configure.ac src/adrt/ivat/master/Makefile.am): IGVT->IVAT 100%
05:55.20Twingyok
06:15.35Twingyback
06:21.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/doc/ (ivat.txt binary_spec.txt ShaderRef.txt igvt.txt): updated binary spec
06:29.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 4 dirs): updated help, removed host argument.
06:29.26brlcadremember to put them in extra_dist if you want to ship them
06:29.46Twingyk
06:29.52TwingyI'm not concerned right now
06:30.04TwingyI doubt anyone will use it
06:30.23brlcadI bet you they will
06:30.32brlcadespecially after they see the stryker pic
06:30.52Twingythere's not enough documentation to show people how to make that pic right now
06:31.06Twingysince I did all that in blender
06:31.30brlcadnot the render itself, which is the point :)
06:31.52TwingyI think I've got a good 2 hours of documenting to do
06:32.04Twingybefore people grok enough of how to render moss with it
06:32.09brlcadi was planning on including references to the images (and putting them in the gallery) in the release e-mail
06:32.17Twingyhrm
06:32.23Twingywell
06:32.28brlcaddon't have to
06:32.28Twingyunless we are distributing some bots
06:32.44Twingythey're going to have a frustrating time
06:32.52brlcadcould just wait till next month
06:33.00TwingyI'd recommend that
06:33.09TwingyI don't expect people to use it this month
06:33.31brlcadi'm sure a few will just from reading the release notes
06:33.46brlcadthey've yet not to for the releases we've had
06:35.33Twingy*shrug* maybe, I won't have a clue who's using it
06:36.06brlcadyeah, a lot of folks will try it after they see the pics
06:36.18brlcadso probably better to low-key it until it gets integrated better
06:36.19TwingyI need to update that stryker pic
06:36.21Twingythe stats are wrong
06:36.38brlcad5 days.. er weeks :)
06:36.53Twingy# of rays
06:37.35Twingy7.97 trillion rays
06:38.41Twingy~18 million rays/sec
06:41.23Twingylet me update the stryker pic before you post it
06:42.29brlcadk
06:42.34brlcadi'll hold off until next month
06:42.55brlcaduntil at least next month
06:45.06brlcadis python 2.4 really required?  what's the min?
06:52.35Twingyone more commit
06:52.49Twingyany python will do
06:52.58Twingyit's used in the master for the console to do numerical entry
06:53.10Twingywhich is interfaced by the observer
06:53.20Twingythrough sdl
06:55.34brlcadworked with 2.2
06:55.46Twingyyah
06:55.49Twingyshould work with 2.x
06:55.53TwingyI'm not picky.
06:56.01TwingyI'm doing very basic stuff with it
06:56.55Twingycommiting
07:03.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated logo, added minimal help for rise.
07:05.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ivat/ (observer/Makefile.am slave/Makefile.am): correct binary names generated now.
07:07.05Twingyk
07:07.08TwingyI think that about does it for me
07:07.14TwingyI can live with what's in there
07:09.03Twingyif you want
07:09.12Twingywe can put a bot version of moss in there
07:09.20Twingythen they'd have something to play with
07:10.04brlcadno sense duplicating something that simple
07:10.46brlcadthe humvee as a bot would be good
07:12.03Twingyhumvee is (c)
07:12.11Twingyyah
07:12.12Twingybeats me
07:12.32Twingyif I had time I'd model my trooper
07:12.39Twingybut I suck at brl-cad modeling
07:13.32brlcadthe original is, but what about a derivative?
07:13.38Twingydunno
07:13.42TwingyI would think not
07:13.54Twingybut I guess since more than 50% of it is orignal
07:13.57Twingythen I wanna say no
07:14.01Twingywe can't release it
07:14.02brlcadit woulda been mentioned on the place you got it from
07:14.31Twingyhttp://www.3dcadbrowser.com/terms.aspx
07:15.27brlcadheh "You are responsible for regularly reviewing these Terms of Use"
07:15.30brlcadyeah right
07:17.49brlcadah, the site is just a middle-man -- Justin Wilson is "the man"
07:18.02brlcaddo you get a contact if you log in?
07:18.24TwingyDastin
07:18.37brlcader, yeah, that's what i meant
07:18.44Twingynope
07:18.53brlcadanything extra if you log in?
07:18.56Twingynope
07:20.44Twingymoss aint bad
07:20.47Twingyif we put it in a box
07:20.52Twingyand a light
07:20.59Twingyall they'd have to do is run rise
07:21.55Twingywell
07:21.56Twingyg-adrt
07:21.59Twingyand then rise
07:22.22Twingyjust wait till the next ver
07:22.30Twingyerr relase
07:24.52brlcadwe shall see what he says..
07:25.11Twingygot an email?
07:25.37brlcadi think, will know soon enough
07:25.43Twingygoogle?
07:27.34brlcadand leaving special little black packages around your mouse too i bet
07:27.40Twingynope
07:27.47TwingyI let them expunge em all first
07:27.53brlcadheh, not feeding them?
07:27.57Twingyafter you quarantine them and let em get about 6 out
07:28.00Twingythey're clean for a while
07:28.02brlcadahh, so you just shake em for a lil bit
07:28.11Twingynope, naturally
07:28.15Twingytakes a few minutes
07:30.00TwingyI got ivat talking to brian's fuzzy fault tree now
07:30.06Twingyit's pretty sweet
07:40.39Twingyhrm
07:40.51TwingyI think the opengl drivers need updated on my box
07:40.59Twingymaybe I'll model my rocket tommorrow
07:41.04Twingyand build a fake sysdef
07:41.36Twingyyou see the AMD-X2's I spec'd out for SAB?
07:43.04brlcadnope, just heard a hint
07:43.28TwingyI'm installing new drivers, brb
07:45.21*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
07:46.07Twingyah, cool
07:46.11Twingygl select is fixed now
07:46.21Twingymuuuuuuuuuch better
07:53.27Twingywelp
07:53.29TwingyI'm off to bed
13:59.32*** join/#brlcad phcoder (~phcoder@pcp0011642003pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
14:09.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/inftrees.c:
14:09.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: apply patch for CAN-2005-2096 aka SA15949 aka DSA-740-1 aka RHSA-2005:569 aka
14:09.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: GLSA 200507-05 (original identifier) addressing a potential vulnerability
14:09.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: whereby an attacker could construct a malformed data stream, embedding it within
14:09.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: network communication or an application file format, potentially resulting in
14:09.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: the execution of arbitrary code when decoded by the application using the zlib
14:09.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: library.
14:15.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
14:15.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: apply zlib vulnerability patch for CAN-2005-2096 aka SA15949 aka DSA-740-1 aka
14:15.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: RHSA-2005:569 aka GLSA 200507-05 (original identifier) addressing a potential
14:15.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: vulnerability whereby an attacker could construct a malformed data stream,
14:15.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: embedding it within network communication or an application file format,
14:15.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: potentially resulting in the execution of arbitrary code when decoded by the
14:15.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: application using the zlib library.
16:53.48tarzeauany news?
16:54.03tarzeaubrlcad: like the new version?
17:16.03*** join/#brlcad frank__ (~frank@p54818F24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:36.12learnertarzeau, gets posted today
17:36.37tarzeaulearner: yay!
18:07.11TwingyI think I'm going to make g-adrt a little smarter and pull information about lights
18:07.21tarzeaulearner, brlcad: i just found out the packages exist already
18:07.26Twingythat would technically be enough to do everything in brl-cad and render with rise
18:07.34tarzeauscientificcomputing.net/debian/packages/brlcad/
18:31.23Twingyhrm
18:31.51TwingyI need to get me one of them AMD X2'
19:06.54TwingyInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...invalid command name "gui"
19:07.02TwingyI'm still having that problem sean
19:07.09TwingyI suspect others will be too?
19:41.09*** join/#brlcad frank__ (~frank@p54818F24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:12.01brlcadi'm going to dual-license the documentation for the distributions that complain about gfdl not going on drm media
20:12.45brlcadand for the invariant section clause
20:13.44brlcadthe question open for discussion is whether the dual should be gpl or bsd
20:14.28brlcadthe difference, of course, is modification sharing (both require authorship maintenance)
20:41.37tarzeaubrlcad: did you read your backlog ?
20:47.30brlcadusually, why?  I miss something?
21:01.09tarzeaubrlcad: there is already a debian package
21:01.14tarzeaui got back to the guy who filed the ITP in january
21:01.22tarzeaui'll look at his packages next week.
21:01.34tarzeaui hope he can get them officially in soon
21:02.19brlcadyeah, I'd forgot about that package, though it's still not in debian proper
21:02.25brlcadand not installed into the correct location
21:02.46brlcad7.4 should let it install better
21:07.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/restore.m4: restoration check still failing to avoid getting clobbered with the generic docs -- improve the restoration check by minimizing the cases that result in a backup restore and the cases that cause a backup to get saved.
21:12.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/misc/Makefile.am: vertex ops, rename.pl and server.cxx are gone, ivat.png and rename.pl are added
21:13.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/doc/Makefile.am: binary spec is gone, added are ivat and rise text files
21:14.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: fix the source distribution target yet again.. need to traverse into doc, misc, and scripts at least on dist.
21:16.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 6 dirs): ignore the adrt products
21:18.53Twingysean, should I do an update, will that fix my mged problem?
21:19.33brlcadno
21:19.45brlcadtesting mged now
21:20.36brlcadthat error means it couldn't find tclscripts for some reason
21:21.11brlcadwhich should only happen if you're trying to run mged from outside the source tree (or from too deep within) without installing mged first
21:21.36brlcadthere have been changes to that recently, though, so i'll see if it's something new
21:45.25Twingyk
21:54.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: revert the mistaken commit of the generic install instructions
22:01.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: why bother looping if aux_dir doesn't exist
22:47.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING:
22:47.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: the BRL-CAD documentation is available under a dual-license strategy allowing
22:47.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: for recepients to choose between the GFDL and GPL. this allows for the
22:47.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: documentation to be included on otherwise opaque distribution mediums and
22:47.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: over-zealous packaging distributions that don't seem to agree with allowing
22:47.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: minor invariant sections (which none of brl-cad's docs have anyways).
22:56.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: as represented by arl
22:57.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/License.rtf: updated to new copying details (mainly that documentation is dual-licensed with GPL)
23:15.39Twingyshould I do an update now?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050711

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050711

00:29.55Twingyok
00:30.00Twingyso what do I have to do to get mged working
00:32.47brlcadwell, I haven't tracked down (or encountered) that specific problem yet
00:32.56brlcadworking on a different issue
00:33.03brlcadbut, that said.. yours should be simple
00:33.14brlcadit can't find the tclscripts directory -- where is your tclscripts dir?
00:33.24brlcadshould be /usr/brlcad/tclscripts
00:38.42Twingyhrm
00:38.52Twingylooking
00:39.07Twingyin /usr/local/tcpscripts
00:39.12Twingyin /usr/local/tclscripts
00:39.21Twingyprefix was set to /usr/local
00:39.44brlcadand you did a make install?
00:40.18Twingyyep
00:41.34brlcadgrep BRLCAD_DATA include/brlcad_config.h
00:42.55Twingy#define BRLCAD_DATA "/usr/local"
00:43.10brlcadhrm
00:43.10Twingy-rw-r--r--  1 justin  wheel  19073 Jul 10 20:32 brlcad_config.h
00:43.10Twingy[justin@borg:/usr/local/include/brlcad]$
00:43.41brlcadBRLCAD_DATA=/usr/local/ mged
00:43.51brlcadtry typing that verbatim 1-line
00:44.53Twingymged works
00:45.00Twingyso what needs fixed?
00:45.09brlcadhrmm
00:45.19brlcadtry this:
00:45.22brlcadBRLCAD_DATA=/usr/local mged
00:45.43TwingyI just did that
00:45.50Twingyoh
00:45.52Twingywithout slash
00:45.56brlcadwith or without the trailing slash?
00:46.07Twingymged fails
00:46.09Twingywithout trailing slash
00:46.15brlcadbut works with it?
00:46.18Twingyyes
00:46.22brlcadokay
00:46.36brlcadan off-by-one mistake in bu_brlcad_data
00:46.42Twingyk
00:46.44Twingyhard to fix?
00:46.48brlcadnah
00:49.33*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak_ (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
00:52.27brlcadaha, oops
00:52.33brlcadi see what happened now
00:53.28brlcadit wasn't computing the path length before testing whether it needed to append or trim a slash
00:54.43Twingyah
00:59.12brlcadthere update src/libbu and try that
00:59.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: compute the left-hand path length _before_ using it so that it doesn't end up smushing together something like /usr/brlcadtclscripts. also only need to match one of two join cases since rhs is only one or the other.
01:00.23brlcadmged uses libbu dynamic, so should be able to just make install and run mged again (without the env var)
01:01.57Twingyinteresting
01:02.00Twingywhen I goto raytrace
01:02.04Twingyit goes /usr/local/rt
01:02.08Twingyinstead of /usr/local/bin/rt
01:02.15brlcadhmm
01:02.20brlcaddagnabbit wabbit
01:04.27brlcadsame base function but different caller .. looking
01:11.04brlcadokay, try that
01:11.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: another off-by-one -- it should be '/usr/brlcad/bin' not '/usr/brlcad/\0bin'
01:12.02brlcadnow it might do /usr/local/binrt .. will see
01:13.42brlcadah, no -- it should do the right thing
01:13.44Twingywill try in a bit
01:13.50Twingymodeling something
01:15.24Twingyhrm
01:15.28Twingymged just pissed me off
01:15.42Twingyit's easy to type something
01:15.46Twingyand lose 5 minutes of setting coordinates
01:16.02TwingyI'm going to write a script to do auto backups
01:21.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: denote justin's addition of the rise path-tracer and ivat triangle ray-tracer via adrt. still needs a paragraph write-up
01:23.06Twingywhat do you want on that?
01:30.21brlcada mostly generic marketing announcement paragraph of what's been added in layman's terms
01:31.03Twingyhow do I translate?
01:31.06Twingytra x y z ?
01:31.13brlcadyeah
01:31.19Twingywith something selected first?
01:31.25brlcadright
01:31.32brlcadhave to be in an edit-mode
01:32.37Twingyand rotate is p?
01:32.43Twingyp 0 0 90 ?
01:33.33Twingyoh
01:33.36Twingyset function to rotate first
01:43.11Twingyif A,B,C,D are all the same for the TGC
01:43.18Twingyam I setting the radius or the diameter?
01:44.10Twingyradius
02:02.33brlcadrot
02:02.37brlcadrot 0 0 90
02:02.43brlcadrot, tra, sca
02:03.07Twingywtf
02:03.16TwingyI do primitive selection
02:03.18Twingyit's in white
02:03.22TwingyI pull up primitive editor
02:03.24Twingymake changes
02:03.27Twingyhit apply
02:03.29Twingymenu do apply
02:03.32Twingymenu do accept
02:03.33TwingyB
02:03.37Twingydraw the parts
02:03.40Twingyand no changes
02:03.43Twingygrrrr
02:03.50Twingyunintuitive piece of ...
02:06.00brlcadyou never rtfm'd, was never meant for newbs without training
02:06.06brlcadnot that it couldn't be way way better
02:07.25Twingywee
02:09.06brlcaddid you type the primitive's name in and hit enter before editing values?
02:09.16brlcadon the primitive editor window
02:09.47Twingyyep
02:09.53Twingyit updates in the window
02:10.06Twingyand I redraw and it goes back to original values
02:10.25Twingysomehow it worked on the other part
02:10.28Twingyand not on this one
02:10.52brlcadhmm
02:11.03brlcadi can reproduce it on a sphere
02:11.11brlcadlooks like a bug
02:12.26brlcadit applies the edit to the in-memory representation, but some reason doesn't safe it to disk when you apply
02:12.37Twingymaybe I should RTFM
02:12.55Twingyo.O
02:13.28brlcadmaybe I should
02:14.50brlcadwhat primitive type were you trying to edit?
02:16.44Twingytgc
02:17.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged primitive editor doesn't accept/apply values to disk for certain primitives (e.g. sph)
02:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: make tkCanvBezier modification to libtk be a convenience library if the compiling user opts to use a system libtk
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02:58.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c:
02:58.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: improve the parent/child startup process even more. now the parent will wait up
02:58.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: to 90 seconds for the window initialization, but the child will also inform the
02:58.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: parent even when aborting early due to some error (like an unset DISPLAY). make
02:58.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: a clear statement that mged has quit if the client aborts.
03:00.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved mged initialization failure reporting
03:01.05brlcaddamn, it's almost time to give up on the reoganiztion in order to make the release on schedule
03:01.43Twingygoing to release a broken version of mged?
03:03.17brlcadno, it works
03:03.26brlcadat least no new bugs
03:03.51brlcadonly thing left to do is the new DATA dir default
03:05.54Twingywell
03:06.07Twingyshould I not use primitive editor?
03:06.26brlcadyeah
03:06.42Twingywhat's the command line version
03:06.48brlcadeither select the operation on the edit menu and use the p command, or use sca/tra/rot + accept/apply
03:07.01Twingywhat about editing individual values
03:08.08brlcaddepends which values
03:08.53Twingytgc
03:09.01Twingyjust use p option
03:09.07Twingyand menu stuff
03:09.08Twingygot it
03:10.39Twingyhrm
03:10.50Twingyyah
03:11.24Twingyk, that'll do
03:11.34brlcadif it's a lot of value tweaking, you can 'db get primname', 'kill primname', 'db put primname ...new values...'
03:12.11brlcaddangerous to user-error (since it's raw), but will work
03:12.43Twingydoing a cvs update
03:12.49brlcadi'm sure there's a way to edit the values by their old names, but I don't know how
03:13.04Twingygoing to run autogen and install again
03:13.19Twingysee if that fixed all the path issues with mged and rt
03:19.28brlcadk
03:24.26Twingyinstallingvb
03:28.27Twingyworking
03:29.30brlcadyay for blind code-fixing
03:31.27Twingyheh
03:52.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: migration to BRLCAD_DATA complete, remove BRLCAD_DATA_DIR
03:59.58Twingyhrm
04:00.19Twingydo we have a tool for generating threads on a screw?
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04:30.08brlcadTwingy: curvature on curvature is usually quite hard, the appropriate primitive doesn't exist yet
04:30.23brlcadthough I bet I could implement it on the train ride
04:31.45brlcadif it's a static cylindrical screw, you could implement it relatively easily with three pipes
04:32.44brlcadbut if it tapers, you're probably sol
04:37.18Twingyjust cylindrical
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04:41.44brlcadif you make the path with a pipe, make two copies and translate them down and up half the radius, then subtract them, you'll should have a nice thread
04:42.20brlcadcreating the pipe is covered in the advanced modeling tutorial book
05:08.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mged.tcl: dang fixed path .. use bu_brlcad_data to find the root. these routines still need to check for existence in order so users may need to edit/modify their existing .mgedrc if they have one in the meantime.
05:13.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
05:13.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: woot, default the BRLCAD_DATA to $prefix/share/brlcad/VERSION. aside from
05:13.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: library/binary name collisions, this should now let brl-cad install into system
05:13.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: paths such as /usr and /usr/local now though more work will need to occur to
05:13.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: isolate the libs and headers better.
05:16.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: install these docs into the DATA/doc directory now
05:16.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/legal/Makefile.am: install the license headers into the DATA/doc/legal directory now
05:18.45brlcadwoo hoo.. that should do it
05:19.00brlcadI'd love to post it now, but I got that damn 8:30 meeting
05:19.11brlcadso maybe lunchtime
05:19.28brlcadworking with the new directory structure now
05:23.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged/bwish doesn't work without the required resources being installed (i.e. it won't run from a build directory without an installed version in place)
05:34.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/awf: stupid quick-fix hack to make brlman work for the 7.4.0 release -- need to decouple machinetype.sh
05:35.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: install directories are now reorganized
05:36.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: halt awf, brlman, and other tool's usage of machinetype.sh. alas time to retire the old script
05:38.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: might not work on some other platforms, but ia64 seems to ignore libtk if it comes later in the link list for some reason (doesn't cause a problem, per se -- no linker errors, just U nm symbols).
05:40.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: brlman/awf is hardwired for 7.4.0 (temp fix)
05:40.59brlcadthat'll do for tonight
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14:47.30knoppixhi
14:47.35knoppixanyone here ?
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15:26.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bah, BRLCAD_DATA_DIR is no more, BRLCAD_DATA is the shizzle
17:05.25brlcadknoppix: hello
17:06.16brlcadif you ask whatever questions you have and just idle, someone will eventually answer ;)
17:18.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (pack.c unpack.c): char c to unsigned char c to allow for strings 255 chars long, not 127.
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20:05.31EricWilhelmbut he did.  He said "anyone here?" :-)
20:11.04brlcad:)
20:11.15brlcadquite true
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22:34.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/camera.c: ws
22:47.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 5 dirs): build/link all of adrt static
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050712

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050712

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05:01.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (31 files in 6 dirs): and with a flick of wrist and wiggle of nose, itink ivat isgone... at least for now, likely to be resurrected before next iteration from the ashes in a slightly different incarnation.
05:05.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: ivat is removed for at least this iteration, probably to be reincarnated in a different for later when some details get worked out
05:06.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: not going to roll out the adrt ivat tool this release .. maybe next
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05:11.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/misc/ (Makefile.am ivat.png): remove ivat image
05:13.00brlcadTwingy: ivat pulled, so careful on cvs update
05:14.43brlcadif you want to be safe, remove the CVS directories from src/adrt/ivat in your checkout (find src/adrt/ivat -type d -name CVS -exec rm -rf {} \;) so they won't get touched during update
05:15.11Twingyk
05:15.20Twingyyou'll be in wed right?
05:15.26Twingyit's getting renamed back to ISST
05:15.32Twingyerr, too ISST
05:15.39Twingysince it was previously IGVT
05:17.45brlcadisst or igvt?
05:17.49Twingyisst
05:17.56Twingysoon as I get time
05:17.59TwingyI'm gonna run my rename script
05:18.06Twingyand s/ivat/isst
05:18.31Twingyafter I commit a few bug fixes I took care of today at survice
05:18.32brlcadArnold says isst betta now so , geetaout!
05:18.54Twingydude
05:18.58Twingythe sysdef file was in my car
05:19.03Twingyslid into the passenger side door
05:19.20TwingyI left brians to go get it in lee's office, but found it there before going to apg
05:19.34Twingybut brian told me what needs fixed
05:19.38Twingyso I'm fixing now
05:19.45brlcad:)
05:20.00Twingy4,189 lines of sysdef, happy happy joy joy
05:20.07TwingyI could really use some beer right now
05:20.18Twingythe diet pepsi aint doin it
05:20.36Twingyactually, I'd take vodka over beer at the moment
05:20.49brlcadi'll be in wed, dunno about today (tues), though
05:20.53Twingyk
05:21.01Twingyhrm
05:21.11TwingyI got 5 hours to get this shit working
05:21.21brlcadhave to write up the abstract for the hunstville simulation conference by tomorrow
05:21.25Twingyk
05:21.26brlcader tonight
05:21.33Twingydoing a pres?
05:21.36brlcadand it just aint gonna happen at my desk
05:21.54brlcadyeah, probably
05:21.59Twingygood stuff
05:22.05TwingyI'm starting up a paper this thursday
05:22.06brlcadthe abstract chair sounded rather interested
05:22.32brlcadwe'll see, not for sure, of course
05:22.38Twingyooh, war of the worlds finished
05:22.39brlcadsimulation conference after all
05:22.45Twingymust... focus...
05:22.50Twingyhrm, naked chick
05:22.55Twingymust... focus...
05:22.57brlcadneed caffeinated beer
05:23.07brlcadand naked chick
05:23.10Twingyneed some peasant to do this grunt work for me.... and caffeinated beer
05:23.15Twingyooh, and naked chick
05:23.34Twingycheckout shoutcast for XRM radio
05:23.37Twingygood station
05:25.49brlcadso what's isssssst stand for?
05:25.56brlcadthe international space station tool?
05:26.03Twingyyep
05:26.06Twingyyou're good
05:26.22brlcadinternational space station teleporter
05:26.28Twingyintentionally stupid sounding tool
05:27.10Twingyhrm
05:27.28Twingyinteractive shot selection tool
05:53.46Twingycool
05:53.58Twingytrimmed 2300 lines of fat off the sysdef
05:54.12Twingy1,149 components
05:54.29Twingyshould be good 'nuff for demonstration purposes
06:13.02brlcadhmm. not bad
06:13.08brlcadisst
06:14.38brlcadirssi .. interactive realtime shot selection interactor
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06:47.04Twingyrealtime, eww
06:47.23Twingyit's not realtime
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12:41.34tarzeaubrlcad: what was the debi package url again?
12:41.38tarzeaui pasted of that itp guy?
12:45.44brlcadtarzeau: http://scientificcomputing.net/debian/packages/brlcad/
12:46.57brlcadTwingy: sure is realtime with a cluster behind it :)
12:48.50tarzeaubrlcad: thanks
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14:46.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: improve the path checking on the root and data directories, allowing for a full override if desired via --prefix and --datadir respectively
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20:05.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/include/ (RtServerImpl.h rtserver.h): Mods to add an interface for shooting an array of rays
20:07.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Mods to add an interface for shooting an array of rays
21:02.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/README: say three
21:59.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: mention the new path tracer, improve distribution details, more information on contacting via irc, mention that we're usually at siggraph and other conferences
23:08.44brlcadTwingy: adrt stands for... ?
23:47.36brlcadno matter, I'll just let it be a mystery
23:47.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: include an informative overview of adrt and the rise path-tracer. today is release day for 7.4.0
23:52.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: added rise details. ready to ship 7.4.0
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050713

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050713

00:09.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac): update version to 7.4.0
00:35.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: changelog entries from 7.2.6 to 7.4.0
01:12.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/weight.sh: fix the comparison checks so that they are not whitespace dependant or otherwise so sensitive to simple formatting changes
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02:43.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: common.h belongs before any system header, don't include brlcad_config.h directly -- not portable; also getopt isn't used, use the compatible bu_getopt routine instead
04:10.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/Makefile.am: cat-fb requires libbu for bu_brlcad_data
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04:12.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: requires libbu for bu_brlcad_data/root
04:40.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS): cvs is tagged with rel-7-4-0 so bump to 7.4.1
04:51.57*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon
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20:39.19*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050714

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050714

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01:20.17pizzaRunSET realname Charles R. Price, Jr.
01:21.50pizzaRun?
02:36.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: heh, oops, brain fudge somehow swapped igvt 'i' with rise 'i' -- it's an image synthesis engine, not interactive.. go ahead and describe adrt too
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03:26.34brlcadTwingy: got that image yet?
03:26.50brlcadsending out the release notes, would be nice to link to it
03:27.21Twingyditeuh
03:27.24Twingyuh
03:34.14brlcadso.. that's a yes or no? :)
03:35.29brlcadif it's ready within 10 minutes, I'll link it -- otherwise I can just use what I got
03:40.40Twingygot it
03:41.31Twingyuploading
03:43.26Twingyk
03:43.32Twingyrt.cx/~justin/images/stryker_slat.png
03:43.47Twingyand
03:44.04Twingyhttp://rt.cx/~justin/images/boat_path.jpg
03:44.23brlcadheh
03:44.43Twingyand
03:45.17brlcadhummy and strykie are good enough
03:46.15Twingyrt.cx/~justin/images/humvee2.png
03:46.16Twingyrt.cx/~justin/images/humvee3.png
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03:46.34Twingy3 is bettah
03:46.53brlcadhmm.. that's a hard call
03:47.09Twingypfft
03:47.36Twingypick 3
03:47.59Twingymeh
03:48.04Twingythat looks like ass
03:48.06brlcad3's a bit small
03:48.09Twingywhere did you get that crap from?
03:48.11brlcadthough better path
03:48.23brlcadi have my sources
03:48.35Twingymy mice thing you should pick 3
03:48.51Twingy4 against 1, neener neener
03:48.58brlcadlooks like plastic
03:49.30Twingylooks alot more real than the other ones
03:50.09Twingyjust pick one *shrug*
03:50.12brlcadand it looks like the windows are missing :)
03:50.14TwingyI gotta make a phone call
03:50.20Twingyhapping picking
03:50.23brlcadk
03:56.26Twingyyou should date the images
03:56.29Twingyon the screenshots
03:56.33Twingyand rename screenshots to gallery
03:56.36Twingyif you can
04:00.05brlcadthere will be a proper gallery on the new website
04:00.20brlcadand it can't be renamed on sf.net
04:08.39Twingyokie
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050715

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050715

00:37.14*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
00:52.33Twingywelp, office is set
02:01.17brlcadshweet
02:22.16*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
03:31.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: include the level of notification detail warranted by each, add grabowski of upfront.ezine to notification list
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04:35.03brlcadfreshmeat updated
04:41.23Twingyrottenmeat
04:42.16Twingyyou not update screenies?
05:04.37brlcadnot yet
05:05.07brlcadhave to resize them and all for sf screenie section
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06:23.28PKMOBILEso its cooler down here in TN than MD...
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050716

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050716

02:04.11*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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04:25.50prasadsean
04:26.12prasad7.4.0 breaks in ubuntu-hoary
04:26.20prasad32bit
04:45.11Twingyurf
04:45.20Twingytired at 12:50 on a friday night is not good
04:45.56Twingythen again I think I got about 33 hours of sleep this week
04:48.59prasadit's the dextrose fumes
04:49.06Twingynah
04:49.24Twingythis week was unusually demanding of me
04:50.34prasadi see no pics up
04:51.15Twingynope
04:51.25TwingyI still need to process some more data
04:51.33Twingyand do video editing
04:51.38prasadfine
04:51.43Twingyand reformat the static field test section
04:51.47prasadi think im gonna join acst soon
04:51.57Twingythat would be cool
04:52.00prasadfirst step, finish this rtedge.v2 tool
04:52.05prasad???
04:52.10prasadmove away from mooves
04:52.10Twingyprofit!
04:52.19Twingymoooooooooves
04:52.26Twingyerik wants out
04:52.28Twingyyou want out
04:52.34Twingyjason is tired of mgmt
04:52.39prasadron wants completely out
04:52.43Twingyyep
04:52.56Twingymgmt is now passed the point of a successful product
04:53.07Twingythey have officially killed it.
04:53.19Twingythe question will be, how long before they realize it
04:53.36prasadthey shouldn't have screwed with it so late in the game
04:54.03TwingyI suspect they will get little more than a slap on the wrist and give you guys all the blame
04:54.12prasadof course
04:54.17prasadbut hey
04:54.25Twingydoes lisa know you wanna get on acst?
04:54.26prasad'wendy told me to quit'
04:54.42prasad(which is a true statement)
04:54.46prasadnah
04:54.52prasadi think she's pissed at me
04:54.55prasadas it is
04:54.58Twingyshe's pissed at everyone
04:55.03Twingyon M3
04:55.18Twingycause just about everyone has already told her that nobody wants to work on it anymore
04:55.30Twingyif you told her, that might make 100%
04:55.51prasadi doubt that's gonna do anything
04:55.59prasadpjt specifically picked ww
04:56.00Twingyno, not really
04:56.20prasadlisa wont question a pjt decision imo
04:56.40TwingyI'm wondering if pjt is deploying a clever tactic to let wendy fall on her face as a branch chief so he has enough stuff to use to fire her
04:56.56prasadheh dunno
04:57.50Twingythe next couple of months certainly will be interesting
04:58.06prasadthey're trying to pile stuff on me
04:58.34prasadchip: 'i want to ask you if you have any other tasks that you would like to work on'
04:58.34Twingyif you get too much, you gotta tell them you're overburdened
04:58.51prasadme: 'let me ask you this; are there any tasks that havent been assigned?'
04:58.55prasadchip: 'no'
04:58.58prasad<end>
04:59.09Twingyheh
04:59.15Twingymy answer woulda been 'not muves'
04:59.33Twingybut I'm just straight forward like that
04:59.47prasadyes 'justin'
04:59.52prasad_the_ justin
05:00.16prasadi was gonna say prasad, java developer of the year
05:00.19prasadbut u know..
05:00.22prasad=)
05:00.25Twingynice
05:01.08prasadbsg season 2 ep 1 was the shiznitz
05:01.21TwingyI never really got into it
05:01.24TwingyI think it's well done
05:01.25prasadtsk tsk
05:01.29Twingybut I can't watch tv that long
05:01.38Twingyno matter how good the show is
05:02.29prasadman implementing a 2d graph in c is painful
05:03.04prasader -2d
05:03.19prasada _graph_
05:03.33Twingyuse gnuplot
05:03.55prasadi meant it as in the compsci defn
05:03.55Twingyit's painful if you've never done it before
05:04.02Twingyah
05:04.12Twingymatrices
05:04.26Twingyadjacency matrices
05:04.54prasadthat only allows single parents, no?
05:04.59prasadparent*
05:05.28prasadi think linked list per [][] cell would work
05:09.43TwingyI think I'd need to know more about what the 2d graph is being used for
05:10.05prasadvectorized line drawing
05:10.26Twingyjust drawing lines?
05:10.30Twingyusing bresenham?
05:10.50prasader what about it
05:10.57prasadrtedge generates a raster img
05:10.59Twingythe point is to draw 2d lines?
05:11.20prasadbased on a csg scene in brlcad
05:11.27Twingyheh
05:11.53TwingyI should implement that as a post-processing filter into mine
05:12.04Twingytrivial todo
05:12.22prasadraster maybe trivial
05:12.27Twingyno, using raytracing
05:12.36prasadwell that's what rtedge does
05:12.46prasaduses region boundaries and normals
05:12.49Twingyyah
05:12.57Twingycurvature tolerances, wee
05:13.19prasadive stumbled upon a great excuse to not work on M3
05:14.39Twingyonce you finish integrating into rt you can integrate into adrt :)
05:14.54prasadprofit!
05:15.11Twingysome isoparametric line drawing has been requested from my interactive tool
05:15.18Twingywell "wire frame viewing"
05:15.31Twingybut it's essentially isoparameteric line rasterization
05:15.54Twingyurf
05:15.59prasadjust use a pixel shader
05:16.07TwingyI need to hire me some kid to do these web pages
05:16.16TwingyI hate writing web pages
05:16.29prasaddont u have an underling
05:16.30prasadat work
05:16.43Twingynope
05:16.49Twingythis isn't work related though
05:16.53TwingyI wish it was :)
05:16.59Twingythat would so kick ass
05:17.09prasadits a secret wmrd project
05:17.12prasaddone
05:17.24Twingymaybe after I hit mach-3 and sustaint a +10 second burn it'll be interesting
05:17.44Twingymost supersonic jets are still under mach-3
05:18.20prasadfirefox
05:18.20TwingyI need to make the jump to hybrid motors at some point
05:18.29prasador maybe the mig25
05:18.35Twingythese solid ones were a nice stepping stone
05:19.19Twingyunless I figure out a clever way of packing in longer burn times
05:19.30prasadu need a logarithmic ramp to max impulse
05:19.32TwingyI'd like to try rubber and potassium nitrate
05:20.22prasad'justin? i don't know anyone named justin'
05:20.48TwingyI think an old tire would work well
05:21.23Twingyhrm, I'll have to do a little chemistry to figure out what proportions I'll need
05:22.13TwingyI've got some liquid plastic I'd like to try
05:22.25Twingyinfact, I'm gonna go whip up a batch
05:22.29Twingybbiab
05:22.43prasad...
05:48.04Twingyback
05:48.35Twingythe reaction wasn't energetic enough to be a candidate, but I need to conduct a test after it's had time to dry
05:49.04TwingyI suspect the combination of that and enough pressure will result in a sub 50lb burn
06:02.39Twingyhrm
06:02.43Twingyonly 470 N-s
06:03.40Twingy> 320 N-s, so still an I-class burn
06:05.22Twingy152lb peak
06:09.00Twingy2.03 seconds of > 10lb thrust burn time
06:21.02TwingyI got the thrust graph up now
07:32.38brlcadhmmm
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17:48.36brlcadhmm
17:48.43brlcadtime to get back to business
18:07.25Twingygotta goto the bathroom again?
18:08.47prasad*golfclap*
18:15.35Twingythe graph is up
18:15.44Twingyhttp://rt.cx/rocket/static_field_tests/2005.07.15/
18:15.50Twingygoing to add the videos now
19:35.59Twingyvideo is compression
19:36.04Twingycompressing
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19:46.31prasadphotos arent up
19:47.31Twingynope
19:47.45Twingydebating whether to make a thumbnails thing or not
19:48.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: report a summary on make fast too
19:48.34brlcad404
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19:51.28prasadsean
19:51.48prasadhas 7.4.0 been tested on debian
19:51.49prasad?
19:52.00prasad*compiled
19:54.15brlcadyeah
19:54.35brlcadthree different ones actually
19:54.45prasad./configure -> make : gives me GL errors on ubuntu
19:54.59brlcadcommon problem
19:55.10prasadwhats the fix
19:55.13brlcadyou probably don't have the gl dev package installed
19:55.42brlcadi forget what it's called, something like mesa-gl-dev
19:55.53brlcador x11-gl-dev
19:56.19Twingy127MB for complete video, doing a burn-only one now
19:56.27brlcadconfigure assumes gl availability right now
19:56.44Twingy128MB even
19:56.55prasadxlibmesa-gl-dev is installed
19:57.17prasadubuntu uses xorg
19:57.25prasadis that an issue?
19:58.30brlcadconfigure doesn't care
19:58.39brlcadit just expects the headers to be installed
19:59.15brlcadand that the headers/libs match up
19:59.38prasadim saying the libs maybe in another place, since it breaks when building libfb.so
19:59.47prasadthe gl lib that is
19:59.48brlcadsome systems make a bogus library symlink
19:59.55brlcadis the error a compile or link error?
20:00.09Twingycompressing burn-only
20:00.19prasadgcc -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -o .libs/fbserv fbserv.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so /home/prasad/download/brlcad-7.4.0/src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so -lc -lpthread /home/prasad/download/brlcad-7.4.0/src/libpkg/.libs/libpkg.so /home/prasad/download/brlcad-7.4.0/src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so -ldl -lnsl -lz -lm -lX11 -lXi -Wl,--r
20:00.20prasadpath -Wl,/usr/brlcad/lib
20:00.20prasad../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `glPixelStorei'
20:00.20prasad../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `glDrawPixels'
20:00.28brlcadlink error
20:01.00brlcadlocate libGL.so
20:01.07brlcador libgl.so
20:02.37brlcadshould be in /usr/X11R6/lib or /usr/X11R6/lib/GL or somesuch
20:03.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: shipped, start off this iterations todo list with a few items. retire machinetype.sh and integrate isst for starters.
20:03.02Twingyk prasad, videos and photos are up
20:03.06brlcadone of the nvidia driver installs does install broken symlinks
20:05.21prasadits under /usr/X11R6/lib/nvidia
20:05.40brlcadwow, that's a new one
20:06.04prasadlrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      12 2005-06-16 01:48 libGL.so.1.xlibmesa -> libGL.so.1.2
20:06.05prasadlrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      12 2005-06-24 00:05 libGL.so.xlibmesa -> libGL.so.1.2
20:06.10brlcadthe install should have made symlinks from /usr/X11R6/lib to that dir
20:06.25brlcadls -la libGL.so*
20:06.55prasad:. ls -la libGL
20:06.55prasadlibGLU.a       libGLU.so@     libGLU.so.1@   libGLU.so.1.3  libGLw.a
20:07.00prasado.O
20:07.09brlcadbusted symlink
20:08.17brlcadyou apparently have the gl utility, but not gl
20:08.48*** join/#brlcad jrobe1 (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
20:08.50prasadneed to make a symlink to the lib in nvidia/ no?
20:09.38prasadthis is whats in the nvidia dir
20:09.40prasad-rw-r--r--  1 root root  675582 2005-04-05 12:06 libGL.a.xlibmesa
20:09.40prasad-rw-r--r--  1 root root 2378006 2005-04-05 12:06 libGLcore.a.xlibmesa
20:09.41prasad-rw-r--r--  1 root root  413376 2005-04-05 12:06 libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa
20:09.41prasadlrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      12 2005-06-16 01:48 libGL.so.1.xlibmesa -> libGL.so.1.2
20:09.42prasadlrwxrwxrwx  1 root root      12 2005-06-24 00:05 libGL.so.xlibmesa -> libGL.so.1.2
20:09.44prasad-rw-r--r--  1 root root  477946 2005-04-05 12:06 libglx.a.xlibmesa
20:10.29brlcadultimately you have to have either a file or valid symlink named libGL.so or libGL.a for ld to find it
20:11.19brlcad"usually" if everything is set up correctly, those are symlinks in /usr/X11R6/lib to whatever driver libs you installed
20:11.54brlcadwhich in this case would be to /usr/X11R6/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa for example
20:12.29prasadwell made symlink
20:12.36prasadstill cant find it
20:13.02brlcadof course not, configure was ran before the fix
20:13.27brlcadwhere'd you make the symlink?
20:13.43brlcadwhich dir
20:13.44prasad/usr/X11R6/lib
20:13.59prasadgcc -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -o .libs/fbserv fbserv.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so /home/prasad/download/brlcad-7.4.0/src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so -lc -lpthread /home/prasad/download/brlcad-7.4.0/src/libpkg/.libs/libpkg.so /home/prasad/download/brlcad-7.4.0/src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so -ldl -lnsl -lz -lm -lX11 -lXi -Wl,--r
20:14.00prasadpath -Wl,/usr/brlcad/lib
20:14.13prasadi dont see a -lGL
20:14.15brlcadso you should get away with: make LDFLAGS="-lGL"
20:14.16prasadflag
20:14.19brlcadright
20:14.30brlcadthat's because that comes from the configure check
20:14.33prasadaight
20:14.46brlcadconfigure detected that -lGL didn't work, so the makefiles are wired without it
20:14.58brlcadyou'd have to delete your configure cache and rerun configure for it to add it
20:15.03prasadk
20:15.48brlcadconfigure should dump out one of it's usual "WARNING: your system is misconfigured..."-style messages or simply disable the opengl interface
20:16.56prasadTwingy, GIMP->resize pls
20:26.32jrobeyyou in #rt?
20:26.33Twingy[gotta go
20:26.41Twingybe back later tonight
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20:39.39brlcad:)
21:03.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/pix/ (cube.rt Makefile.am): add an initial cube.rt saveview raytrace script, formerly known as the bench/pretty.sh script but now moved to pix/cube.rt instead
21:05.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (Makefile.am pretty.sh): the pretty.sh script is now moved from 'bench' to 'pix' dir and renamed to cube.rt
21:32.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (viewdiff.sh Makefile.am recheck.sh): rename recheck.sh to viewdiff.sh and rewrite it in the process, decoupling it from machinetype.sh and improving the tool checks in the process
21:40.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: use the more generic path_to_this instead of path_to_run_sh so the var can be consistent across scripts
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23:14.33brlcadwoot
23:15.10brlcadcan raytrace to file and framebuffer simultaneously
23:17.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: allow rt to output simultaneously to a file and to a framebuffer
23:18.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: allow rt to output simultaneously to a file and to a framebuffer, allowing the -o and -F options to be combined together
23:20.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view_bot_faces.c: knr to ansify funcage
23:22.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: add support for simultaneous -o file and -F framebuffer output to rtedge
23:24.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewxray.c: add support for simultaneous -o file and -F framebuffer output to rtxray
23:27.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: simultaneous -o and -F options to rt, rtedge, rtxray
23:32.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/try.sh: completely rewrite try.sh so that it basically calls the main run.sh script with the X framebuffer option, making sure that only one frame per test is displayed.
23:58.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/cray.sh: bye bye machinetype.sh, presume path is set up correctly beforehand for now
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050717

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050717

00:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/ (awf.in awf): replace awf with awf.in template so that it may be decoupled from machinetype.sh and pathing problems
00:58.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/ (brlman.in brlman): replace brlman with brlman.in template so that it may be decoupled from machinetype.sh and pathing issues
00:59.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/Makefile.am: replace brlman and awf with autoconf templates
01:00.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the awf and brlman files from their respective templates
01:00.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: awf and brlman no longer user machinetype.sh
01:04.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am machinetype.sh): retire the venerable machinetype.sh script from the former build system after a good 20 years of service. it's no longer required and should there arise a need, config.guess should be incorporated
01:05.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: machinetype.sh is retired
01:15.23Twingyback
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04:11.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: report what right-hand path is being searched for correctly
06:16.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): move tkCanvBezier.c from the depths of other/libtk/generic to brl-cad's libtclcad library, decoupling brl-cad's tkCanvasBezier modification so that a system libtk may be used straight up.
06:18.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: utilize libtclcad which now includes are tkCanvasBezier goodies
06:22.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Install.html: emphasis
06:32.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add full checks for libtk including an enable-tk-build option
06:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/.cvsignore: ignore the newly generating awf and brlman files
06:41.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: brlman/awf is no longer hardwired for 7.4.0
06:44.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: no need to make tkCanvasBezier code a convenience library -- added to libtclcad instead
06:47.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add mingw and installation/configureation script(s) to this iteration's to do list
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17:05.31fenn<PROTECTED>
17:05.32fenni'm asking them to "do the right thing" and release their source and pre-proofs of the papers under the gpl
17:05.32fennit will be interesting to see what happens
17:42.27brlcadyeah, interested in hearing how that goes
17:45.07brlcadwould be great to get students/professors implementing their research directly with brl-cad
17:45.33fennwould be great to get students/professors actually doing something useful
17:45.37brlcadwe've collaborated with many in the past, they tend to make great enhancements even if initially just prototype form
18:13.36fenntrying to think of a name
18:13.46fennwant to try to work "camo" into it somehow
18:14.00fenncamoos :)
18:15.02brlcadcamowhamo
18:18.11fennyes!
18:18.52brlcadcamoo nanoo
19:21.01Twingymoo
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050718

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050718

00:40.28*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
02:03.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: search path enhancements, search for tclscripts explicitly and search even harder still when running from uninstalled
02:04.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: search path enhancements, search for tclscripts explicitly and search even harder still when running from uninstalled
02:10.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c:
02:10.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: improve the path failure reporting with customized messages for data vs root
02:10.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: searching. fix the 'bug' of adding a trailing slash when there is no right-hand
02:10.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: side. if the left-hand side is empty, let that imply a current directory.
02:22.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: searched results string is optional
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05:01.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: add tclcadAutoPath.c which includes a routine for adding the brl-cad tclscripts to the tcl auto_path.
05:03.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (tclcad.h Makefile.am): add an initial tclcad.h interface file for the tclcad library
05:04.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add a check for MAXPATHLEN just to be sure it gets set
05:04.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/ (tclcadTkSetup.c tclcad.c): rename tclcad.c to tclcadTkSetup.c
05:05.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: add tclcadAutoPath.c and tclcadTkSetup.c, remove the renamed tclcad.c
05:06.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: fix header, credit john
05:09.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: abstract out the auto_path crappage to libtclcad and make it a tclcad_auto_path call instead.
05:10.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: abstract out the auto_path crappage to libtclcad and make it a tclcad_auto_path call instead. fix the other bu_brlcad_data call to specify the tclscripts dir instead of leaving it open-ended.
05:11.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: add libtclcad to the btclsh deps since it's using tclcad_auto_path now
05:13.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: MAXPATHLEN is now in bu.h, no need to abort if searched and where arguments to bu_find_path are NULL, make bu_find_path static like it is supposed to be
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12:38.45dpyhi guys
12:39.34dpyone small question: is brlcad similar to commercial tools like solidedge or solidworks ? or is there still a large gap between brlcad and those programs ?
12:39.51dpyfor instance is it possible to make assemblies in brlcad ?
12:47.40dpyanyone alive here ?
12:47.50archivistyup
12:48.11archivistsome questions take time here
12:48.27archivistdepends of timezones
13:39.12brlcadmornin'
13:40.27brlcadfeature-wise brl-cad is indeed quite similar to several other commercial tools, though the interfaces are radically different so it very much depends on how you are comparing the two packages
13:40.55brlcadit is indeed possible to make assemblies, they are simply combinations in brl-cad
13:41.13dpybut is it as intuitive
13:41.44brlcadintuitive if you understand it of course ;)
13:42.03brlcadit's really hard to compare without having gone through the basic modeling tutorials
13:42.04dpywhat I'm primarily looking for is a simple engineering cad program
13:42.07dpyfor simple models
13:42.12brlcadthe methodologies are generally quite different
13:42.13dpylegos++ as I like to call it
13:42.28dpyI don't need so many degrees of freedom
13:42.40dpyjust as long as it is intuitive to use and simple
13:43.23brlcadbrl-cad's user interface is very much command-driven, so discovery of the facilities at your fingertips is about as easy to come by as it is learning that "ls" will give you a listing in unix
13:43.54dpyhmm ok
13:43.57brlcadfor something like legos-style modeling, brl-cad is pretty well suited
13:44.03dpyI like drag drog point and click more
13:44.07brlcadthose are very well defined machinable shapes
13:44.08dpythat would about answer my question
13:44.13dpydrog=drop
13:44.22brlcadbrl-cad is the only 3d open source solid modeler
13:44.34dpyhmm
13:44.39brlcadyour next best bet might be qcad, which is akin to a drafting app
13:45.00brlcador that actual "legos" modeler
13:45.11dpywell I want to model and then load the models into my own opengl app
13:45.25dpylegos are too limited
13:45.30dpythat's why I call it legos++
13:45.33brlcadjust going with your example :)
13:45.52dpymore complex than legos but simpler than endless combinations of units etc..
13:46.03brlcadI'd really suggest just going through maybe one exercise in the mged tutorial to get a feel
13:46.36brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
13:47.17brlcadbrl-cad has a variety of programmatic interfaces as well, so embedding or linking with other apps is generally quite easy
13:47.54brlcadin fact at least a dozen other codes directly do just that
13:48.21dpyhmm
13:48.24dpywill look into it
13:48.55brlcadnot to mention easy access to the devs here if you run into any problems ;)
13:49.12brlcador the ability to become one of the devs yourself should you want to improve/extend something
13:51.52brlcadas for combinations/regions/assemblies/parts/etc, the main distinction in brl-cad is that you are only working with shapes until you create a 'region' -- regions are akin to parts in some other packages.  you can then continue to combine regions together and create assemblies.  There is, however, only one region on a given path in the csg hierarchy
14:54.33*** join/#brlcad Captain (~user@pool-162-84-219-76.ny5030.east.verizon.net)
14:55.18brlcadHello Captain my Captain
15:03.51Captainhello brlcad
15:04.10Captainjust lurking for a bit while i check out the tutorial :-)
15:05.09brlcadnot a problem
15:05.35brlcadfeel free to ask any questions, complain, suggest, etc ;)
15:07.02brlcadit's worth pointing out the BRL-CAD consists of much more than just MGED, there are actually over 400 tools including geometry converters, various raytracers, a nice path-tracer, data manipulators, framebuffer tools, image converters and more
15:08.02brlcadmged is, however, the long-standing solid modeler interface for now (with two new ones in development, but they're long-term from production use)
15:10.25archivistnames? in the source tree?
15:11.30brlcadarcher will probably the next generation replacement for mged
15:12.40brlcadit's not in the source tree yet, but it is already being distributed as part of the AJEM software suite (a multi military service standard which BRL-CAD is a part of)
15:13.30brlcadthat tool is effectively mged with a newly written and more user-friendly, user interface
15:13.41Captaincool, thanks....it appears like a great package
15:14.24Captainis there a timetable for importation into the source tree?
15:15.30brlcadit's still several months out at best since it will require a lot of cross-platform integration testing
15:16.35brlcadthe full windows port release is taking precedence for the next month or so from the dev primarily familiar with archer
15:17.21brlcadand archer itself is only tested on windows to date (though written in Tk, so it should "just work".. or be close to just working)
15:18.07brlcadarcher actually uses mged at it's core, but running in an embedded object mode of sorts
15:21.06Captaini suppose that's the beauty of scripting interfaces
15:31.48Captainso, is there a built in version control system?
15:40.28brlcadif you mean is there an in-house version of brl-cad too, no there's not
15:41.37brlcadthere are, however, a couple codes remaining that just haven't beed added to cvs yet
15:42.05Captaini meant more from the model point of view
15:42.19brlcadarcher has the added complication that it's been primarily developed externally by Survice Engineering (one of our close-partner dev groups)
15:42.20Captainbasically CVS for your drawings
15:42.31brlcadahhhhh
15:42.42brlcad~fishslap brlcad
15:42.42ibotACTION slaps brlcad up side the head with a wet fish.
15:43.06brlcadno, not yet -- though versioning has been discussed on many an occasion for the .g file format
16:00.02Captainthe .g file format is binary, correct?
16:00.16brlcadyes
16:00.28Captainok, thanks!!
16:00.30brlcadthere is an accompanying .asc file format that's ascii
16:01.19brlcadbut those are pretty much for historic use -- the .g's should be used for any new application development
16:02.03Captainok, cool
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19:07.09fenn~fishslap
19:07.45fennwhat's the deal with holding back archer until it has been thoroughly tested?
19:07.52fennyou will find bugs eventually anyway
19:08.25fennholding it back just slows down the discovery of bugs
19:10.17archivisthear hear
19:14.17*** part/#brlcad tarzeau (~tarzeau@80-219-64-218.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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19:28.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: Man page for g_qa
20:53.43brlcad~fishslap fenn
20:53.43ibotACTION slaps fenn up side the head with a wet fish.
20:54.03brlcadfenn: it's partially a delivery issue -- it's not in my hands yet
20:55.08brlcadbrl-cad also has a fairly solid policy on not breaking the build arbitrarily, so to integrate it into the build system requires at least some level of effort (which has yet to happen)
20:55.28fenndon't you have a testing branch of some sort?
20:55.44brlcadone could be created, and actually has been planned for it
20:55.55brlcadbut then, like i said.. it's not even in my hands yet
20:56.36fenni like the kernel strategy of alternating development/testing releases
20:57.02brlcadwe already do something similar, although our testing "releases" only live in cvs
20:57.11fennah right
20:57.13brlcadand regardless, testing doesn't necessarily mean build failure
20:58.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (24 files in 5 dirs): IVAT is now ISST (Interactive Shot Selection Tool).
20:58.45brlcadlike that one there :)
20:59.30fennheh
20:59.50fennlooks like you have a mess on your hands
20:59.51brlcadthat's a pretty cool tool
21:00.18fennlots of stuff in one package
21:00.36brlcadTwingy's been busy making it a nice high-performance visualization tool
21:00.52fennthis is a ballistics simulation tool right?
21:00.53brlcadaside from just simply implementing the whole damn thing too ;)
21:01.25brlcadit's a visualization tool -- visualize a "shotline" of a ray .. see what's along a ray's path
21:01.39brlcadspin large complex models around in relatively real-time
21:03.25brlcadfenn: yeah, lots of stuff -- though most of the tools are small contained-function tools in-line with the "unix philosophy"
21:03.47brlcadand most all are somehow related to the various aspects of solid modeling
21:04.21fennah usually thats referred to as 'raycasting"
21:05.36brlcaddepends on your audience, there is a hint of ballistics in the "shotline" terminology, that's what's mainly used
21:09.56brlcadthe larger more general benefit of that tool is the visualization of very complex models (millions of triangles or more) in real-time
21:10.34brlcadslice the geometry with various cutting planes, see what's inside
21:21.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (plane.c spall.c): plane view and spall view now use partial component color to better visualize internals.
21:26.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (README doc/rise.txt): updated README for ISST
21:36.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: don't forget to modify the makefile.am when adding files. add the missing g_qa.1 manpage
21:59.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (plane.c spall.c): Faded coloring a bit more.
22:13.51brlcadTwingy: http://news.taborcommunications.com/msgget.jsp?mid=430164
22:39.06polyspin?
22:41.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Just a checkpoint. added support for minimum rays required per region.
23:38.16prasadsean
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050719

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050719

02:36.50*** join/#brlcad archivist (~archivist@host217-35-103-47.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
02:56.41brlcadprasad: yes?
02:58.25Twingymission complete
02:58.35TwingyRound 2, fight!!!
03:11.33Twingyhey sean, check your email when you get a chance
03:12.28brlcadi am/have .. "that's what I do"
03:12.37Twingyhehe
03:12.42brlcadhalf dozen since i left work
03:12.42Twingywendy sent a nice nastygram
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07:51.01prasadbrlcad, nm. got svn+subclipse to work
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12:31.27*** join/#brlcad dpy (marcel@a10032.upc-a.chello.nl)
12:31.31dpyhi
12:31.44dpyhmm brlcad actually works rather pleasantly
12:31.51dpythe command window etc..
12:52.25dpyis there some reference manual for brlcad
12:52.37dpylisting all commands and synopsis
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12:55.36dpycome on
12:55.45dpythere must be some sort of reference manual somewhere
12:59.01dpyguess not
12:59.07dpyonly wordy books
13:22.17dpywow
13:22.22dpyall those supported converters
13:22.25dpyx3d !
13:22.27dpycool
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13:50.24dpyis there a simple way to get a cylindrical shape but with a distinct number of edges ?
13:50.45dpye.g 6 or 8 edged cylinder
13:51.07dpyor is this hard to achieve in brlcad ?
13:51.09dpyanyone ?
14:33.43brlcadhello
14:34.34brlcadsimplified reference manuals?  pfft.. :)
14:34.48dpyok
14:34.50brlcadthe "gov't way" is to use up as many trees as possible
14:35.00dpyI already found appendix C in book II
14:35.02brlcadi'm kidding, there are several
14:35.03brlcadyeah
14:35.08brlcadthe appendix is good
14:35.19brlcadthere's also the help command
14:35.24dpyso my main problem is the cylindrical shape
14:35.26brlcad"help" will dump out a list of all the commands
14:35.28dpywith edges
14:35.45brlcadthere's also a reference manual on the Help menu in MGED
14:36.23brlcadwhat is an "edged" cylinder?
14:36.27dpyin an ordinary 3d modeler I can make a cylineder with 6 or 8 edges
14:36.50dpybut in brlcad, it's always perfectly cylinderical, so that trick doesn't work
14:37.03dpyhow do I get a "cylinder" with 6 or 8 or .. edges ?
14:37.09brlcaddo you see the primitive shape reference at the end of book II?
14:37.14dpyyes
14:37.38brlcadhmm.. can you provide a picture of what you mean by an edged cylinder?
14:38.05dpysure
14:38.07dpyone sec
14:38.09brlcadyou mean a faceted cynlinder?
14:39.17dpyhttp://dwarfhouse.linux-box.net/mtoele/example.png
14:39.28dpyyes faceted
14:40.02dpybtw is there some way to get a view that looks more like this example in brlcad ?
14:40.09dpywithout rendering all the time
14:40.26dpyI have a nice 3d card that's idling all the time
14:40.29brlcadthere's an experimental mode that has been played with
14:40.48dpythat does filled rendering ?
14:41.10brlcadright
14:41.20dpyokay, so my main question is: how to do faceted cylindrical shapes
14:41.26brlcadmake sure lighting and zclipping is on  on the misc menu first
14:41.33brlcadthen run: shaded_mode 2
14:41.36dpyand my side question is: how to turn on experimental mode (if it is any good)
14:41.57brlcadthen redisplay your geometry -- it should be shaded
14:42.07brlcad(e.g. B object.foo)
14:43.07dpylol
14:43.12dpythe booleans don't work
14:43.44dpybut I guess that's why they call it experimental
14:43.52brlcadhmm
14:44.01brlcadthey should be working
14:44.36brlcadbut yeah, it's very experimental
14:44.44brlcadyou sure you're not displaying multiple objects?
14:44.48brlcad"who"
14:45.08dpynope
14:45.12dpyonly shapes3.r
14:45.20dpyit renders fine
14:45.24dpyor raytraces
14:47.01dpyokay, will live with that
14:47.12dpyhow do I do faceted cylindrical shapes ?
14:47.47brlcadif you just want a faceted representation, and don't care about the number of facets exactly, there's the facetize command
14:48.45dpywell what I want is a shape like in the example
14:48.54dpyand then carve out what I don't want
14:49.13brlcadhmm yeah,
14:49.17dpyso it should be pretty accurate
14:49.48brlcadthere's not a primitive by itself that will do that afaik
14:49.56brlcadbut you can of course construct one
14:50.00dpygrr
14:50.05brlcadhrmph
14:50.16dpyhow old is this program ?
14:50.18brlcadi could be wrong
14:50.21dpy20 years ?
14:50.30dpyand nobody ever needed it ?
14:50.37brlcadpretty much
14:50.38dpyand I'm using it for a couple of hours
14:50.39dpylol
14:51.05brlcadyou know.. i bet one of the procedural tools does that
14:51.06dpythis is the body of my robot
14:51.14dpya hexapod or octapod
14:51.16brlcadsince it's very much like the head of a bolt
14:51.25dpyand I need 6 or 8 facets
14:51.42dpyyes head of a bolt is perfect
14:51.56dpyespecially if you can set the number of facets
14:52.09dpyis there some documentation about the procedural tools ?
14:52.20brlcadlimited
14:52.31brlcadyeah.. there is a procedural tool for the bolt head
14:52.35dpythese are presumably tcl scripts ?
14:52.36dpyor stuff
14:52.45brlcadC source, actaully
14:52.49brlcadbut you have them
14:52.59brlcadrun 'mk_bolt' outside of mged
14:53.27brlcadit'll make a 6-sided bolt it seems
14:53.54brlcadusing 2 arb8's apparently
14:54.48dpyit stalls here
14:54.55dpyafter I entered diameter
14:55.12brlcad"Enter diameter .. & height"
14:55.16brlcadit's waiting on the height
14:55.33brlcadyeah, not worded the best :)
14:55.51dpylol
14:56.22dpyhmm
14:56.36dpyI think I'll write a small script to produce the edges
14:56.42dpybecause I need eight
14:56.47dpytoo bad it's not in there
14:56.49brlcadyou can use the sketch editor
14:56.55brlcadand extrude it
14:57.07dpysure, but I want exact coordinates
14:57.17dpysketch editor sounds sketchy
14:57.40brlcadyou can give the sketch editor exact coordiantes
14:57.40dpyI like the idea of entering exactly what I want how big I want and where I want
14:57.56dpywhich I still don't know by heart
14:58.02brlcadCreate -> Sketch -> Create Line
14:58.03dpystill have to calculate them :)
14:58.27dpyfun with goniometry
14:59.02brlcadyeah, a pita
14:59.27brlcadwould be trivial to modify the mk_bolt routine to have it prompt for the number of edges you want
15:00.11brlcadif that's interesting to you, I could probably have that done in about an hour
15:00.57dpyIf I write a script that creates the commands for me that does the same I'll have it in 20 minutes
15:01.09dpyjust copy paste them in the command windows
15:01.14dpyand I'll be on my way
15:05.49archivistno limits on the number of facets as one of my models needs 40 facets (pin barrel for clock musical movement)
15:10.10brlcadthe pattern tool will let you do that
15:10.26brlcadpresuming you create one segment first
15:14.27brlcadi.e. a bunch of arb6 wedges patterned cylindrically
16:32.46*** join/#brlcad cad487 (~434ef54b@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:09.33dpywhat is up in brlcad ?
19:09.38dpyY or Z?
19:13.20brlcadZ
19:14.22brlcadactually mged doesn't really care, and depending on the model, they may be oriented differently
19:14.50brlcadmged simply considers top, bottom, left, right
19:15.53dpyok
19:16.12dpyI like to think of Y as pointing up and Z depth
19:18.28brlcadimage-plane is first quadrant so 0,0 is left-bottom image corner
19:41.26dpyok
19:41.34dpyhey cool my RegularPolygon workssssss
19:42.35dpyhttp://pastebin.com/316473
19:42.37dpycheck this out
19:43.00dpyI don't know how to hide the intermediate polys from the view though
19:43.39brlcadsweet!
19:44.01brlcadB mypoly.s
19:45.12brlcadbtw, .s usually means it's a "solid" i.e. primitive, .c is often the convention for combs
19:45.14dpyyes I can do that
19:45.19dpybut that would clear everything
19:45.25brlcadright
19:45.30brlcadyou can erase each
19:45.41dpyok
19:46.08brlcaderase mypoly_rp*.s
19:53.58brlcadcool:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/oct2.png
19:57.07dpyhttp://dwarfhouse.linux-box.net/mtoele/itworks.png
19:57.50dpyok
19:57.58dpynow I have the body of my robot
19:58.39brlcadneat
19:59.22dpycan brlcad also draw 3d grids
19:59.37dpyit helps me with orientation
20:01.14brlcadyou mean like a ground surface?
20:01.28dpyyeah
20:01.43dpyand also is there a way to change zNear/zFar ?
20:02.00dpymy clipping plane is wrong, parts of the box are clipped
20:02.15brlcadMisc->Z Clipping will turn that off
20:03.00brlcadthere's no "ground grid" visualization
20:03.12brlcadbut you might like turning on the coordinate axes
20:03.40dpyhow
20:03.48brlcadModes -> Axes -> View/Model
20:04.12brlcadview is global, model is per object
20:04.16dpybtw turning of Z clipping also kills the lighting of my shading mode
20:04.59brlcadyeah, known bug
20:05.05brlcadforgot you're using shaded
20:06.05dpyhow come all this stuff isn't in brlcad yet, since its already so long in use and under dev.
20:08.01brlcadthere is a new modeler soon to be included called archer that effectively fixes the shaded mode modeling issues
20:08.34brlcadthe reason it's not included though is that the models are generally too complex to visualize in a useful manner shaded
20:09.00brlcadthe primary focus has always been modeling vehicles inside and out, not surface modeling
20:10.00brlcadyou want to see the engine at the same time as the wheels, the hood, and everything else in context, not just the outer surface -- so wireframe has always been the preferred mechanism dropping to a raytrace when/if you want to visualize
20:11.16brlcadfor simple objects/parts, it does make sense to have a shaded view -- when you have thousands or millions of them, it gets a lot more complicated
20:11.48brlcadso does the wireframe view too, of course, but it's usually manageable
20:15.01brlcadbut hey, I'm always interested in improving it in whatever regard.. and getting new devs to help make that happen ;)
20:15.58dpyError: Unable to do <Object Rotation> from OBJ PICK state.
20:15.58dpymged> orot 0 0 22.5
20:16.00dpy???
20:16.23brlcadyou're in a selection mode
20:16.38brlcadit's waiting for you to pick a geometry
20:16.49brlcadtry middle-mouse, then orot
20:17.10dpycan't I select from the cmd window ?
20:24.02dpyhow on earth do I pick an object from its name ?
20:34.40dpybrlcad: can you help me, I can't continue now :(
20:41.25brlcadsorry, was away
20:41.29brlcadoed command
20:41.53brlcadit's got a quirky syntax given how matrices are actually applied to combinations/regions
20:42.28dpyI have an object called box.r
20:42.32dpyhow do I select it then ?
20:42.34dpyoed box.r
20:42.35dpy?
20:42.50brlcadit wants a left and right hand path
20:43.05brlcadbasically, it wants to know where to apply the matrix
20:43.16brlcadso if you have box.r
20:43.31brlcadwhat are it's contents
20:43.58dpyit's: r box.r u mypoly.s - removemypoly.s
20:44.14brlcadokay, so then: oed / box.r/mypoly.s
20:44.16dpynm the names, it's just messing around
20:44.50brlcadbrb
20:45.19dpymged> oed / box.r/mypoly.s
20:45.24dpyError: Unable to find solid matching path
20:45.57dpynm
20:46.04dpymypoly.s is also not a solid
20:46.07dpystupid .s
20:56.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Modifications following first user community design review.
21:03.47brlcadyeah :)
21:31.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: comment on the fact that brlcad_config.h and config_win.h should not be directly used, common.h should be used instead and it should appear before any system headers. this applies to both internal and external codes
23:31.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot_include.c: there's a crash in here somewhere, start out by performing a few more checks on entry
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050720

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050720

00:01.42EricWilhelmbrlcad, too bad siggraph and oscon are so overlapped (but this year I can't really afford to go to either)
00:46.31brlcadEricWilhelm: indeed, I was going to present as oscon until I discovered it overlapped with siggraph
02:39.30*** join/#brlcad cad344 (~452ccbe8@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:45.32brlcadhowdy cad344
03:48.04*** join/#brlcad Pimpi (~frank@p548193B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
04:42.25*** join/#brlcad jrobey (~jason@63-231-113-65.albq.qwest.net)
04:44.20jrobeybuenos noches
04:44.28Twingyyo quiero taco bell
04:44.44Twingy2 years of spanish right there
04:45.07MaloeranMmhm :), good evening Jason
04:46.33jrobeyheh
04:46.53jrobeysorry, was looking through some brian mods and trying to synch with my code base
04:47.01jrobey**shakes head**
04:47.04Twingysomone needs to teach him to use cvs
04:47.44jrobeyno joke!  I just overwrote some changes I forgot I made with his version from months ago
04:47.56jrobeynow have to undo
04:48.03Twingyyep
04:48.29TwingyI'm just glad I got CoRBCAM working on his linux box, finally
04:48.35jrobeyyou have a good compare/merge tool for java?
04:48.40jrobeysorry, linux
04:48.46jrobeyheh
04:48.46Twingyfor cvs?
04:49.11Twingycvs diff and cvs merge :)
04:49.29Twingyand cvs info
04:49.31Twingy:D
04:50.54jrobeygot it
04:51.21Twingyif you are interested in being amusing: http://rt.cx/rocket/static_field_tests/2005.07.15/
04:51.29Twingy^-- last friday's static test burn
04:51.37Twingyerr *amused
04:52.23MaloeranAnd don't keep your speakers too loud at the moment of ignition :)
04:52.28Twingyhehe
04:58.10jrobeyI'll check it out
05:02.01jrobeynice burn!
05:05.36Twingyyep :)
05:21.13jrobeyalright, gents, rest time for me here--I'll see you in 4 or 5 hours if your still on--otherwise, ttyl
05:21.19Twingyditto
05:21.23Twingylater
05:21.28jrobeylaters
08:31.45*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
12:07.27*** join/#brlcad archivist (~archivist@host217-35-103-47.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
18:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (15 files in 8 dirs):
18:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Data on demand to nodes (~20% mem savings).
18:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: * tlist memory leak in unpack.c fixed.
18:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: * BSP Depth Visualization rendering method.
18:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Split Plane Coloring
18:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Testing more efficient BSP methods.
18:38.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (depth.c depth.h): added depth files.
21:07.21*** join/#brlcad Twingy2 (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
21:39.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: committing before I do a whole bunch of horribly nasty optimization testing fu
21:48.42MaloeranMmhm :), will you try out SSE intrinsics and bundles of 4 rays, Justin?
21:55.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.c g_qa.1): checkpoint
22:37.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Fixed a few bugs. Added some reporting when options are not implemented (yet)
23:32.24*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050721

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050721

00:31.20*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (~Daniel_Re@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
01:38.27*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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10:07.48*** join/#brlcad cad821 (~d5d7718f@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:12.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/generic/default.h: temporary cygwin build solution that should get Tk to work on Windows by specifying the X11 interface (patch provided by lode_leroy)
13:15.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/generic/default.h: use the same hack for mingw too
21:10.27*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
21:10.27*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050722

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050722

01:17.51*** join/#brlcad Twingy2 (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
01:19.28Twingy2you all done moving?
01:52.58brlcadboxed up everything and cleaned up upstairs
01:53.25brlcadgoing to try some stuff out mañana
01:53.58brlcadlike ask what's her name about the tables, try without the 2'er on the end, etc
02:04.12Twingy2ah
02:04.45Twingy2you in tommorrow?
02:08.03brlcadyep
02:37.17Twingy2judy
02:37.43Twingybring the plasma ball in
04:05.53brlcadhttp://team.gobanzai.com/desert_md/team_banzai_01.jpg
04:06.00Twingyhrm
04:06.06Twingy1 week till siggraph
04:06.15Twingyand the friggin cluster hasn't been ordered yet
04:06.22Twingygod damn I hate procurement, those people are next to worthless
04:07.00Twingyheh, 3 apple minis
04:07.26brlcadyep
04:07.28Twingydoesn't look like we'll have a cluster for siggraph
04:07.30Twingy:(
04:07.41TwingyI think I will bring my 8 port switch
04:07.47brlcadhttp://team.gobanzai.com/home.html
04:07.47Twingyand use our 3 laptops or something if I have time to port
04:08.35Twingyif I had $50k and a year I could build a bot to finish the darpa track
04:09.24TwingyI might just do it when I move into my next house and I have a workshop big enough
04:36.33Twingyhrm
04:36.41TwingyI might wanna get a low-end ibook replacement
04:36.52Twingythe 12" w/ 768MB is tempting
04:37.18brlcadthe ibooks are supposed to get a revamp this month or next, widescreen
04:37.48Twingyah, well I like the small ones
04:37.58Twingyas little tty's
04:38.14TwingyI think I might wanna get that as my replacement and stay on the cheap side
04:38.45Twingy$1224
04:38.55Twingymeets my needs
04:39.30TwingyI don't think the 1.25GB vs 768MB does me anything
04:39.52Twingynor does the 80GB do me any more than the 60GB
04:40.26TwingyI'm looking into how I can strap gigabit onto these
04:40.32TwingyI'm wondering if I can get something for firewire
04:42.30TwingyI don't think I care if it's gigabit
04:42.41TwingyI don't plan on munching anything huge on it
04:44.02Twingyhrm?
04:45.40Twingyah
04:45.46Twingyanywho
04:47.32Twingycan we only choose from apple and dell?
04:50.47Twingyah
04:50.50TwingyI think I know what I want
04:54.03brlcadnot so much choosing as it is wishing
04:54.51brlcadno, not limited to them -- just have to justify
04:55.53Twingyk
04:55.56Twingyhere's what I think I want
04:56.04Twingyhttp://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_TSeries&ProductSKU=VGNT350P%2fT&TabName=specs&var2=
04:56.22Twingy9 hour battery life
05:00.01Twingyanywho
05:00.14TwingyI think I'm off to bed
05:00.22TwingyI want to see if I can get that laptop
05:00.39TwingyI don't think anyone comes close to that battery life
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21:00.11*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (~tarzeau@80-219-64-218.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:00.16tarzeau!seen clock
21:00.17TheLastSpartantarzeau: I have not seen clock.
21:00.22tarzeau!seen clock
21:00.23TheLastSpartantarzeau: I have not seen clock.
21:00.27tarzeau!seen clock-
21:00.28TheLastSpartantarzeau: clock- was last seen here 3 weeks, 2 days, 5 hours, 23 minutes, and 11 seconds ago saying: <clock-> brlcad: also it has to be flipped upside down
22:08.39*** join/#brlcad phcoder (~phcoder@pcp0011642003pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
23:56.47*** join/#brlcad prasad (~prasad@pool-151-196-139-7.balt.east.verizon.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050723

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050723

00:10.57brlcadit's a prasad
00:18.16prasadyo what up g
00:18.56brlcadsup to da homie
00:28.30prasadman this natasha bedingfield song is catchy
00:29.45brlcadyou just think she's hot
00:30.14prasadive got a thing for brit chics
00:30.55brlcadive got a thing for hot chics
00:33.31prasadrofl $9 for 10 remixes of the same song
00:55.13*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
00:58.57prasadbrlcad, stl::map uses a red-black tree
00:59.20brlcadwhat's the order guarantee?
00:59.38brlcadsgi's site is great for all things stl
00:59.43brlcadhttp://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/hash_map.html
00:59.48prasadshould be nlogn; lemme check
01:00.20brlcadthere's a hash multimap too http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/hash_multimap.html
01:00.50prasadheh
01:00.55prasadmap is O(lgn)
01:01.01brlcadyou could also have a data management problem
01:01.10brlcadwhere it's creating a copy on every add
01:01.36prasadthey're bytes
01:01.51prasadwell the int is 4b
01:01.58prasadchar is b
01:03.13prasadnot finding anything that says otherwise
01:03.44brlcadit can't be logn on the worst case, not possible
01:04.37prasaddont see why not
01:04.43prasadits a full binary trie
01:04.50brlcadunless the spec required a red/black, which I don't ever recall reading
01:04.56prasadtree*
01:05.35prasad<PROTECTED>
01:06.33prasadi can't see how O(2log2n) could contribute that much to runtime; unless its implementation borks the pipe
01:06.37prasadline*
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01:07.48brlcadi can't either, but there are still other costs associated with going through the stl container
01:07.55brlcadlike the iterator func
01:09.02prasadim not using an iterator
01:09.27prasadunless u mean it uses one internally
01:09.49brlcadit uses one internally
01:10.08brlcadyou can access it and call it yourself, override it, etc
01:10.49brlcadthat sgi url -- it's the compare function basically
01:11.42brlcadget's called to interpret  equality, set to templatized "<" operator by default
01:22.08Twingyurf
01:40.59prasadcan either of u ssh into my box?
01:41.04prasad(work)
01:51.01brlcadhrmph, no i can't for some reason
02:18.59TwingyI'm debugging
02:19.22Twingymuhahaha
02:53.34Twingyfuzzy noodles
02:53.36Twingymmmm
02:53.47fuzzyfuzzy navels too
03:07.23prasadblah i should have picked siggraph over j1
03:39.53*** join/#brlcad jano (point@portablehole.net)
03:39.59janowhere'd he go
03:43.21phcoderjano!
03:43.28phcoderfunky punk
03:45.48phcoderprasad, what are you working on?
03:46.04janoall we need is fsckbunny fred
03:46.11phcoderhaha
03:46.13phcoder:-)
03:46.18jano\o/
03:47.34phcoderno bagging on j1, prasad - you are developer of the year...
03:50.03phcoderfuzzy fuzzy bunny
04:01.23prasadeeeeevil
04:01.52prasadu missed a pretty good bsg ep
08:33.59*** part/#brlcad tarzeau (~tarzeau@80-219-64-218.dclient.hispeed.ch)
13:31.43*** part/#brlcad jano (point@portablehole.net)
15:53.28*** join/#brlcad dmw (~dmw@adsl-67-123-80-88.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050724

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050724

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07:51.29prasadsoo do i get firred if i get arrested>?
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15:40.54brlcadprasad: heh
15:44.30brlcadI wouldn't think that it would be grounds if it doesn't impact ones job (workdays in jail, clearance impacted, etc) ;)
15:44.43brlcadheh, but I have wondered the same thing myself
15:45.23brlcadat least for misdemeanors of course
15:52.27brlcadbut that's just me :)
17:02.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (stat.c Makefile.am brlcad_path.c): separate bu_file_exists out of brlcad_path.c into its own file stat.c
18:02.34prasadow head
18:03.21prasadcame | | close
18:31.59brlcadheh, you'll have to tell the story tomorrow :)
18:51.31*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (~DiscoBand@66.15.214.167)
19:03.14brlcadhello Obscene_CNN
19:03.22Obscene_CNNhi
19:03.48Obscene_CNNI'm just getting things set up with this program
19:04.19brlcadfeel free to let me know if you have any questions ;)
19:04.30Obscene_CNNokay
19:04.39Obscene_CNNI will have questions too.   ;-)
19:29.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: add a simple bu_free_array convenience routine to free the elements of an array without freeing the array itself
19:48.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: add a bu_argv0 and bu_ipwd for setting/getting the initial argv[0] value and the initial pwd
19:55.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (whereis.c which.c Makefile.am):
19:55.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: add initial whereis and which functionality to libbu via whereis.c and which.c
19:55.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: respectively. the difference of course being that bu_whereis() searches the
19:55.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: system path, while bu_which() searches the user path. still could use some more
19:55.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: work to clean up the paths being returned, but it is functional for an initial
19:55.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: implementation.
20:41.09prasadsean
20:41.19prasadthink ron should where this one day? http://www.cafepress.com/offbeatgear/623521
20:41.24prasader wear*
21:42.22brlcadhehe
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050725

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050725

00:20.21*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (~DiscoBand@66.15.214.167)
01:15.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/brlman.in: set the MANPATH a little more intelligently, and halt after the first match
01:15.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/awf.in: search a little better for the awf resource directory
01:17.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved brlman relocation
03:13.40TwingyI should get adrt onto gforge
03:14.15TwingyI know what I want to do for my poster
03:14.31Twingymy BSP depth visualization is pretty cool looking
03:19.02prasadscreens?
03:19.18TwingyI'll generate some later in the week
03:19.37prasadpics or it doesn't exist
03:19.42Twingyit exists
03:19.49TwingyI'm not in the mood to generate any pics
03:20.05prasad:(
03:20.25TwingyI'm currently working on an optimization that could make my engine 1.5x - 2.0x faster
03:20.49prasadaw snap
03:21.14prasadm3 still won't be able to use it
03:21.26Twingythat should atleast get some of the more complex visualizations up from 2fps to 4fps
03:21.31Twingyheh
03:21.33Twingyyes
03:21.44Twingythen M3 will require 3 microseconds of ADRT time per run
03:21.47Twingyheh
03:22.03Twingywhich is an accurate number too :)
03:22.25Twingyactually, about 50 microseconds for the t62 run
03:22.30Twingywee
03:22.45prasado_O
03:22.50Twingy50 microseconds + 5 minutes for m3
03:22.53Twingy:)
03:23.03prasadhibernate is faster
03:23.10Twingyif it takes 50 microseconds
03:23.14Twingywhy bother storing the data
03:23.19Twingyjust regenerate it
03:23.45Twingyhell, if it takes 5 seconds, still better to regenerate
03:24.00prasadthe 3d in m3 requirement may tank
03:24.05prasadhoho pun
03:24.14prasadosx has no java3d
03:24.15Twingy3d?
03:24.20Twingyheh
03:24.23Twingystupid java *duck*
03:24.39prasadnope, not here
03:24.42Twingy:)
03:25.08TwingyI think I'm bringing my exercise bike to my office
03:25.27Twingythat way I can do some exercise during lunch break
03:26.26prasadthink of the ppl upstairs pls
03:26.33Twingyhrm?
03:26.45Twingyit's quiet
03:26.47prasadi need a caulking gun to seal any holes in the floor
03:26.56Twingythere's no holes
03:27.00prasadto block the stench
03:27.02Twingyheh
03:27.17Twingythat reminds me
03:27.23TwingyI want to bring in a glade pluggin to the office
03:27.37Twingygive it a nice tropical scent
03:28.19TwingyI'm more or less content with the office now
03:28.20prasadnew regulation for bldg###: 'those entering the ZCL must wear gas masks'
03:28.27Twingyhehe
03:28.54Twingythat foam matress fits perfectly under the tables in the back I think
03:30.30TwingyI'm going to have to spend all week to get this optimization to work I think
03:30.53TwingyI *might* get the new dual opteron machine by friday
03:31.05TwingyI'm going to try and get monarch to ensure it gets here by friday
03:31.26TwingyI'm going to follow up on the x2 cluster as well
03:31.52prasadim adding a rox-ur-sox-off GUI animation engine for m3 which management could care less about
03:32.13prasadwtf is monarch
03:32.34Twingyhttp://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv
03:32.41Twingyheh
03:33.04Twingydon't worry
03:33.14Twingywhen the revolution occurs, I know what side everyone is on :)
03:33.23prasad*phew*
03:33.32prasadremember, prasad is your FRIEND
03:33.38Twingyyep yep
03:34.16Twingyif I get one thing done at ARL before I leave, it'll be to open managements eyes to new technology
03:34.51prasadwha?? justin's not a lifer?
03:35.03Twingymaybe, maybe not ;)
03:38.11Twingyhrm, my 48" parachute should be here this friday
03:38.40prasadif i ever come up with that $$$ dotcom idea and sell it for millions, u are welcome to join my corporation; the one called cyberdyne (*cough* skynet *cough*)
03:39.03Twingywee
03:39.12Twingyonly if I get to play with the cool robots
03:39.31prasadu can be the creator the arnold-bot
03:39.39prasadof*
03:39.40Twingyhehe
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05:46.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: include the new bu_file_exists prototype; include the BU_PATH_SEPARATOR define
05:47.25PKMOBILEhe never sleeps!
05:49.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/Makefile.am: use the new IWIDGETS_VERSION variable
05:50.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: define IWIDGETS_VERSION
05:51.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: set bu's argv[0] so we can find our run-time location in brlcad_path routines
05:53.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: set the tcl_library, tk_library, and iwidgets_library variables both to continue the quest of a relocateable mged/bwish. fix an oversight on tclscripts searching while we're at it.
05:57.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c:
05:57.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: add run-time path locating, using the argv[0] value along with bu_which to find
05:57.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: where we're running the binary from. the path given may then be relatively
05:57.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: checked for a lib/resource dir. add debug messages for testing controlled by
05:57.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: the bu_debug global
06:12.08PKMOBILEcode code code!
10:16.09*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@rikers.org)
10:16.09*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon
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15:27.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1:
15:27.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: Incorporated Janine's comments. Much more readable now.
15:27.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: Editors are really wonderful people to have around!
15:27.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: Broke with the g_lint tradition of specifying reports as a bit mask.
15:27.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: The user community really doesn't know the first thing about binary
15:27.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: these days, so we shouldn't mandate they learn about it to work with
15:27.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: the user interface (even a command-line user interface).
18:35.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: notify upfront.ezine only if major, but include all the release details
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22:27.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Checkpoint.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050726

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050726

00:50.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (whereis.c which.c): some systems (e.g. linux) have sysctl but do not have CTL_USER or USER_CS_PATH. bah, humbug.
01:52.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: comment on requesting an allocation of zero bytes being considered a mistake/error -- libbu's allocation routines will never return null; allocating zero bytes in a cross-platform manner is not achievable.
03:02.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: apply jim hunt's quick memory debugging fixes (ajem scr 675). the chunk size was not recomputed correctly and insufficient memroy was reallocated potentially resulting in memory corruption and application program crash.
03:08.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed quick memory debugging bug, patch from hunts ajem scr 675
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03:49.41PKMOBILEhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-23,GGLG:en&q=won%27t+someone+think+of+the+children%3F
04:41.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (9 files in 5 dirs): make sure to include the errno.h header before any usage of the errno global just in case so bad things don't happen (like on fedora core)
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08:32.11*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon
10:55.12*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (~prasad@pool-151-196-139-7.balt.east.verizon.net)
16:28.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
16:28.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: Fixed AE for keith and removed origin AE stuff.... Fixed component view and
16:28.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: left bsp depth viewing in.
18:38.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (component.c plane.c spall.c): adjusted colors for render methods.
18:41.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: off by 1 on regions processed.
18:50.19*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@rikers.org)
18:50.19*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050727

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050727

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15:31.54brlcad~seen dpy
15:31.56ibotdpy <marcel@a10032.upc-a.chello.nl> was last seen on IRC in channel #kde, 52d 1h 13m 5s ago, saying: 'kformula anyone ?'.
15:51.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/util/remapid.1: Added
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16:31.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added manual page for remapid
17:01.51*** join/#brlcad AllenHarvey (~8cb91c2a@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:03.10AllenHarveyIs anyone here familair with the EVA-3D material table files used with some BRL-CAD modeling?
17:03.34AllenHarveyI am trying to determine what 3 of the 9 fields in the table represent
17:03.55AllenHarveyso that I can create my own materials for use with another program, MEVA
17:04.18AllenHarveyI was trying to track down an MGED document that supposedly detailed that information
17:05.55brlcadeva-3d.. hmm
17:07.24brlcadi'm not familiar with eva-3d, do you have a context?
17:07.34brlcadbrl-cad has it's own material files, but the format is pretty simple
17:08.07brlcadi do know where most of the mged docs are, though ;)
17:08.26AllenHarveyargh
17:08.45AllenHarveyeva-3d uses the same files as MEVA
17:08.51brlcadahh
17:09.01brlcadwould you happen to have a link for eva-3d?
17:09.07AllenHarveynothing
17:09.11brlcadfamiliar with meva
17:09.14AllenHarveyhere's an example of an entry in teh table:
17:09.31AllenHarvey500150.05000.00.05.0Concrete3.0e70.92.43e7
17:09.40AllenHarveyoops, it didn't accept my tabs
17:09.54AllenHarvey500  150.0  5000.0  0.0  5.0  Concrete  3.0e7  0.9   2.43e7
17:10.02brlcad3no matter, i see the columns :)
17:10.26brlcadlet me see what I can find out.. gimme a sec
17:10.39AllenHarveyi am fairly certain I have the names of the first 6 columns (up until the name)
17:11.14brlcadone of those is probably a density and a youngs modulus
17:11.27AllenHarveythe 2nd column is density in lbs/feet
17:11.36brlcadahh
17:11.42brlcadnot used to seeing them in those units :)
17:11.52AllenHarveyi prefer SI
17:12.02AllenHarveybut MEVA prefers english units
17:12.11AllenHarveythe first column is an ID
17:12.26AllenHarvey2nd is Density
17:12.36AllenHarvey3rd is compressive strength (psi)
17:12.55AllenHarvey4th is the S-Number for soil (0 for materials other than soil)
17:13.03AllenHarvey5th is the percent rebar
17:13.09AllenHarvey6th is the name
17:13.21AllenHarveyI deduced those from the MEVA user's manual
17:13.30AllenHarveybut there is no reference to the last 3 columns
17:18.51brlcadhmm.. if it has compressive strength, then steel yield strength should be another (usually go together)
17:19.20AllenHarveythat column means steel yield strength when defining steel
17:20.55brlcadcept they are separate values, e.g. 10MPa compressive and 295 MPa steel yield for concrete or therebouts
17:22.48brlcadwhat led you to there being an mged document that details it?  I'm not seeing anything in the historic docs and know it's not in the new docs
17:23.16AllenHarveythe reference section of the MEVA user's manual
17:23.27brlcaddoes it say which document?
17:23.32AllenHarveyit says that information on EVA-3D material tables are from it
17:23.36AllenHarveyyes, one moment
17:24.26AllenHarveyMGED User’s Manual, Advanced Computing Systems, U.S., Army Research Laboratory, Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD, December 1991.
17:24.59AllenHarveyi may have found that document (uncertain if I did), but there was no mention of EVA-3D in the document I found
17:25.15brlcadthat would be one of the big old green books, lemme go grab one
17:26.04AllenHarveyI believe the document I found on the web was really made in 1988, although the link claimed 1991
17:40.14brlcadback
17:40.31AllenHarveyas am I
17:40.33brlcadheh, eek, that would have been good to know before i wandered off.. :)
17:40.37AllenHarveydid you have any luck?
17:40.42brlcadnothing in the 91' books
17:40.44AllenHarveyi was here all the time
17:40.58AllenHarveybut continuing my search
17:41.12brlcadi didn't look into the 88 books..
17:41.23AllenHarveyi wouldn't bother searching those
17:42.09brlcadit's not clear what even the old books would have said
17:42.20AllenHarveyI understand
17:42.29brlcadbrl-cad only deals with a material code, the density, and perhaps line of sight
17:42.44AllenHarveysome place along the line there must have been a source to flat out say what the columns in the table represented
17:42.54AllenHarveyThat's what I thought
17:43.26AllenHarveythis table file i'm working with maps the material code defined in the brlcad model to another material
17:43.59brlcadright, the .g just has a code/id .. that gets used by apps in different ways
17:44.12AllenHarveyyep
17:44.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:44.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Fixed the rendering weirdness on the slave start-up
17:44.37CIA-5BRL-CAD:  Slaves were requesting a work unit right after prep begins
17:44.37CIA-5BRL-CAD:  so that slaves were holding onto a work unit for a lengthy time
17:44.37CIA-5BRL-CAD:  until prep finished and causing the units to not get done until
17:44.38CIA-5BRL-CAD:  prep finished.
17:44.40AllenHarveyI only asked here about this file because the reference claimed it used information from an MGED manual
17:44.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Added compute nodes status to observer.
17:45.41AllenHarveyI appreciate your time and help trying to track down this information
18:07.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: lee added g_qa geometry quality analysis tool; justin added adrt interactive shot selection tool -- need write-up for both
18:31.06prasad_meva is oss?
18:31.20brlcadno
18:31.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: include a writeup for isst and g_qa
18:31.42prasad_who's allenharvey?
18:31.47brlcadallen's been here several times before
18:31.53prasad_ah
18:32.15brlcada guy that needs to use meva, but has no other means for meva support ;)
18:32.45brlcadtried to get meva using v7, but meva was doing something "bad" ..
18:33.02brlcader, tried through allen .. still have to try it myself at some point
18:33.07prasad_bill asked me to get it compiling on the opteron
18:33.22prasad_code was pre-ansi-std c++
18:33.24brlcadthough the meva devs made it sound like it was getting completely sucked into the end game framework
18:33.47prasad_yes, hence why bill wanted it updated
18:33.49brlcadi'm supposed to get the egf sometime soon here
18:34.00prasad_i assume the binaries, not code
18:34.26prasad_iirc DA isn't getting the src
18:34.35prasad_*shouldn't be
18:34.41prasad_perhaps, policy has changed
18:35.27brlcadno, the whole shebang
18:35.37prasad_interesting
18:35.51prasad_afrl gave in it would seem
18:35.53prasad_-it
18:35.59prasad_er nm
18:36.43brlcadeither that or this particular dev could have not given a flying sh..
18:36.54prasad_heh
18:37.39prasad_so whats the movie next week
18:38.02prasad_since craptastic is playing now
18:46.04brlcadheh
18:46.07brlcaddunnos
20:08.32*** join/#brlcad TheLastSpartan (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
20:12.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_rec.c:
20:12.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: Fixed a bug where 3 hits were found and checking for duplicates was done, but not all the
20:12.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: duplicate possibilities were checked
20:22.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed the raytrace unique hits evaluation bug
20:33.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: irix compiler doesn't like setting the two pointers to NULL at the same time, plus the cast wasn't right anyways.
20:37.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: fix for "out of dir" builds
22:07.25*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (~Apathy@130.85.234.180)
22:51.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Many changes, including incorporation of units
22:59.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: added g_qa to build
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050728

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050728

00:29.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
00:29.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Overall load time for all 8 nodes during startup is 25% faster.
00:29.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: * File size of adrt mesh is now 33% smaller. It uses shortst when trinum
00:29.02CIA-5BRL-CAD:  of the mesh is under 64K triangles.
00:29.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Prep data to slaves is now multi-threaded (all slaves get data from
00:29.03CIA-5BRL-CAD:  master at the same time, heavy network load).
03:19.35*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (~Apathy@130.85.234.180)
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13:18.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: new and improved! 98% fat free!
13:36.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: inform CADinfo.NET site of releases and other news
13:50.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: add TenLinks Daily to our notification list
13:57.08prasad_Twingy, what's new and improved
13:58.15brlcadif there are fewer than 64k, it uses a short cutting his adrt format by about a third in size
13:58.47brlcad280MB->200MB kind of savings, not bad
15:18.55MaloeranThough I don't think ram usage would reach 200mb with 64k triangles ;)
15:21.39brlcadthat's not memory-- that's on-disk
15:22.06brlcadand it's per object/structure i believe, which can be arbitrary per file
15:22.40Semhiragethis software is enormous
15:29.20brlcadlots of functionality after 20 years ;)
15:35.47Semhiragewould you be at all offended if i attempted to make a gentoo ebuild for it?
15:36.36brlcadnot at all
15:36.43brlcadsomeone actually started that a while ago
15:37.06Semhirageisn't one in portage that i can see
15:37.11brlcadonly since 7.4.0 has it been organized sufficiently for a package system such as portage without modification
15:37.24brlcadgo for it ;)
15:37.30brlcadit'd be very much appreciated
15:37.30Semhiragebe kinda nice, aren't many cad programs at all for linux and this is one of the better
15:37.45Semhiragenot to mention its OSS =D
15:38.27Semhiragei'll definately give it a shot
15:38.31brlcadthere are no other open source solid modeling packages
15:38.45Semhiragethat is very true
15:39.13brlcadat least that I've heard of that aren't anything more than a student's toy
15:40.23brlcadpythoncad and qcad are close, but they're not solid modelers
15:40.40brlcadblender is the most feature-filled, but it's very far from being a solid modeler
15:41.00Semhirageblender is a mesh modeler, not a solids
15:41.10Semhiragei kind of need both
15:41.25brlcadyeah, we actually use both here ;)
15:41.53brlcadthe adrt visualization engine uses meshes/triangles, but brl-cad has limited mesh facilities
15:42.09brlcadwe can represent them fully, but editing them is a pita
15:42.17Semhiragei saw mention of that on the website, where do i find more information on adrt ?
15:52.42prasad_which i will be changing soon enough
15:52.46prasad_=)
16:06.18brlcadSemhirage: in the src/adrt directory
16:06.37Semhirageok so it is a plugin/tool for brlcad
16:06.49Semhiragei haven't had much chance to play yet, so i've yet to explore everything
16:08.28brlcadit's a suite of tools
16:08.48brlcadthere are various collections of tools of different types, adrt is one of them
16:09.05brlcadtools based around a high-performance triangle intersection library
16:11.15MaloeranEh, the high-performance part still has room for improvement ;)
16:12.44brlcadthere's always room for improvement, but what do you mean?
16:14.16MaloeranBSP based ray-tracing is a minimum storage solution, not necessarily the best solution performance-wise, the scene partitionning is quick but not very clever, there are no SSE optimized paths...
16:14.47MaloeranAh, I have discussed ray-tracing abundantly with Justin lately
16:29.32brlcadahh, that's right, you're alexis
16:30.20brlcadi'dd be interested in seeing your improvements :)
16:45.00Maloeran:) I had sent Justin some crude demo, as a quick performance benchmark, though it doesn't show much
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16:46.26brlcadusing adrt?
16:47.12MaloeranUsing my ray-tracer, to compare performance
16:49.28brlcadah
19:52.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): results formatting for volume/weight
20:55.26prasad_yay done with final; 30 mins to spare
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20:58.54nitahello
21:02.05nitaq
21:04.54*** join/#brlcad nita (~nita@i-83-67-61-194.freedom2surf.net)
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22:45.54Semhirageis there anywhere i can find a quick and dirty list of package dependancies for brlcad?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050729

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050729

00:01.11*** join/#brlcad learner (~brlcad@pcp0011649376pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
00:01.11*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
00:01.27PKMOBILEthat crazy brlcad / learner always posting stuff to slashdot :-P
00:06.20learnerheh, observant
00:06.40learnerthey rejected my first one, bastages
00:06.50learnerit was much better
00:07.36learnerI think I'll try to post it with a different spin tomorrow
00:07.51PKMOBILEi wonder about their editorial skills a lot
00:10.09learneryou wonder about it a lot? :)  I don't, it's rather poor in general
00:10.27learnertheir selections have gotten more and more sensationalist over the years
00:10.37PKMOBILEi mostly wonder how they do it
00:11.18learnerI've had several purely news submissions that are big news but not "shocking" get rejected
00:11.18PKMOBILEa lot of it is just copy & pasted from somewhere else
00:11.57learnerthey mostly take what the user submits, and maybe rewords it a little or adds another sentenceor two
00:12.27learnerif my text hadn't matched what it pointed to, it would have had less chance of getting accepted
00:12.44learnerthey completely changed the title, though
00:13.16PKMOBILEi wonder if they get paid for it
00:13.24PKMOBILEor more importantly, how much
00:13.41learnerthey've gotten paid since about 7 years ago
00:13.51learnerwhen they were bought up by osdn
00:14.14PKMOBILEwell if judging by quality, they dont get paid enough
00:14.18learnerhence the disclaimers every now and then when referring to sourceforge, freshmeat, newsforge, etc
00:14.48PKMOBILEwhen i grow up i wanna be a slashdot editor
00:14.49PKMOBILE:)
00:15.07learneryou'll have to learn to make mroe typos
00:15.15PKMOBILEi konw
00:15.36PKMOBILEand sentences make dont sense
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01:36.12prasad_daaamn sean
01:36.23prasad_wearing flame retardent suit?
01:51.30Semhirageanywhere i can get an exact list of brl-cad's dependancies?
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01:52.29Twingycheck configure.ac
02:21.17learnerSemhirage, did you get the memo?
02:22.01learnerprasad_, heh
02:22.01Semhirageyes i got, haven't read it yet, just noticed i had it actually
02:22.51Semhirageok i understand, so basically all of the config options are optional deps
02:22.56Semhiragevery nice
02:23.08learnerand they're all auto-detect by default
02:23.30learnerit will summarize at the end of configure for you
02:24.04learnerthe only bogus item is opengl, it'll say yes whether you have it or not, whether it works or not
02:24.32learnerand you can't easily disable X11 right now without editing several makefile.am's
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03:15.14learnerMaloeran, saw your tracer, nifty
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03:43.54PKMOBILEhttp://www.ourmedia.org/node/32559
04:04.33MaloeranThanks learner, the demo was nothing fancy
11:24.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/rise/Makefile.am: install/include the rise headers or folks cannot compile
12:48.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: quell unused variable warnings
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16:33.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
16:33.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: adapted to version 7 directory structure
16:33.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: usage of vers.vbs to create version/vers.c
16:33.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: configurations added
16:38.29brlcadawesome
16:45.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): ignore msdev generated helpfiles
16:47.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: libbn, libbu, libsysv and libwdb
16:50.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.ncb: unnecessary ncb msdev build file removed
16:54.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: if you don't wont PARALLEL do not define it
16:56.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h:
16:56.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: some new configuration defines
16:56.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: tell is sth different
17:10.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: have to update the version number in include/config_win.h too for the windows build at release time
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17:48.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 5 dirs):
17:48.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Adjusted colors for plane and spall.
17:48.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Fixed the axis aligned geometry intersections.
17:48.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: * Added in_hit to observer overlay
17:52.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/rise/Makefile.am: somehow this got broken?
18:02.00*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (~alexis@modemcable233.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
18:17.11*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (~alexis@modemcable233.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
18:27.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/rise/Makefile.am: the files have to be specified somehow or source distributions will not include the files and it'll only work from cvs
18:30.22*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (~alexis@modemcable233.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:26.31*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (~Apathy@130.85.234.180)
20:28.52PKMOBILEi come in peace!
20:30.48brlcadi come in pieces!
20:39.20PKMOBILEi thought about saying that but i thought it was to cliche'
20:47.45brlcadprobably
20:47.51brlcadbut it's cool when I say it
21:01.34Semhiragelol
21:07.47PKMOBILEbrlcad is just too cool for skool
21:39.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c:
21:39.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: g-adrt now creates an emission line if it finds a light source in the
21:39.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: shader string.
21:40.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 3 dirs): added depth to parser so you can render bsp depth from rise.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050730

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050730

00:33.18*** join/#brlcad ewilhelm_ (~ewilhelm@pool-71-111-57-16.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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02:45.45Twingyswitch is packed
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03:50.20Twingygrr
03:50.23Twingyg_qa is broke
04:12.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: region was spelled wrong lee.
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04:33.16PKMOBILEpeanut butter and coke dont mix very well
04:46.57MaloeranYou have our gratitude for these words of wisdom
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19:05.16prasad_http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/532-197.asp
19:10.55PKMOBILEso when do you guys leave for siggraph?
19:14.40PKMOBILEhahah thats hilarious
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050801

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050801

14:10.29*** join/#brlcad ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)
14:10.29*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || Several will be at Siggraph 2005, BoF meeting on Monday 11am-12noon
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20:33.35Twingymoo
20:42.17brlcadmeep
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23:04.42prasad_shiva borked =(
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050802

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050802

00:48.08brlcadheya prasad_ ;)
00:48.10brlcadhow's it going :)
00:48.20brlcadjustin says fix it
02:11.04prasad_heyo
10:51.09brlcadwhat a night...
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16:53.17*** join/#brlcad Erroneous (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
17:15.11*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || ACM SIGGRAPH 2005 is under way -- see everyone there
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21:39.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Trying to us an un-initialized vls structure was causing a core dump.
22:00.58*** join/#brlcad IJ89 (~reaper@dsl081-173-048.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
22:03.45IJ89can anyone help me build 7.4 with OpenGL turned off?
22:04.07IJ89i was on here asking this about a month ago with 7.2.6, but neglected to take notes on what all i had to do
22:04.46IJ89i recall there were about four files to modify, re-run autogen.sh, then proceed as normal, but i don't recall which four files had to be modified
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22:57.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Massive changes
23:42.03brlcad\
23:58.57prasad_/
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050803

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050803

00:00.15*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (~DiscoBand@66.15.214.167)
00:01.38brlcadhowdy prasad_
00:01.50brlcadhow's the fun back in at the ranch?
00:02.24*** part/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (~DiscoBand@66.15.214.167)
00:04.14prasad_the cattle are stirring
00:04.43prasad_tranese wants to know why u were drunk last night
00:05.35brlcadheh
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08:21.25miqlasHello!
08:21.56miqlasCan I compiling the BRL-CAD on BeOS/Zeta?
08:22.08miqlasSupported this operating systems?
08:22.15miqlasOr only Linux?
08:28.59MaloeranIt probably compiles on any Unix OS, something BeOS isn't
08:29.04MaloeranAh, too slow I was
14:45.17brlcadit should compile and work mostly as-is, albeit with a little bit of header tweaking maybe
14:45.42brlcadi compiled on Be back in the day, and got Zeta just last week (but haven't installed it yet) -- so it will be tested soon
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20:44.55IJ89can anyone help me build 7.4 with OpenGL turned off?
20:45.03IJ89i was on here asking this about a month ago with 7.2.6, but neglected to take notes on what all i had to do
20:45.07IJ89i recall there were about four files to modify, re-run autogen.sh, then proceed as normal, but i don't recall which four files had to be modified
20:45.39IJ89this is on linux, so there aren't any other OSly complications
20:53.44brlcadhowdy
20:54.30brlcadIJ89: sure -- edit configure.ac src/libfb/Makefile.am src/libdm/Makefile.am src/mged/Makefile.am
20:54.58brlcadlook for ogl and OGL references in those files and remove them
20:55.07brlcadthen rerun autogen.sh, and proceed as normal
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21:14.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c):
21:14.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: Since the user community didn't ask for the -s option I've deleted it for now.
21:14.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: It can be implemented, but doesn't seem worth the time right now. Given the
21:14.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: existence of the -g and -n options, I suspect the -s option isn't necessary.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050804

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050804

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17:00.18IJ89brlcad: thanks, that's exactly what i needed
17:02.23IJ89i've been enjoying working with 7.2.6, but i've found a number of bugs, and i wanted to see if they still exist in 7.4 before i report them
17:02.46IJ89of course, they're hard to find bugs, involving things freezing for no apparent reason, for the most part
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050805

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050805

03:49.05*** join/#brlcad Semhirage (~Semhirage@semhirage.user) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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04:18.15Twingyhrm
04:18.21brlcadhrm
04:18.27Twingybed time me thinks
04:18.35brlcadcrazy talk
04:18.47Twingygots to get up at 5am
04:20.18Twingysigning off
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050806

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050806

02:01.09*** join/#brlcad Twingy (~justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
02:05.59Twingywelp
02:06.03Twingyback in maryland
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05:46.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/configure.ac: added isst back into configure
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14:41.53mahesherror
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18:38.56Twingyhi
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19:05.42maheshrise
19:16.48Twingyhey there
19:17.03maheshhello
19:17.18Twingybeen spending most of the day outside doing yardwork and house stuff
19:17.59Twingyso you're interested in using rise to render some images?
19:18.05maheshyeah
19:18.12Twingyanything in particular?
19:18.25maheshI am unable to run it
19:18.32Twingyright, you need to compile it first
19:18.39maheshIts compiled
19:18.50Twingyif you compiled brlcad you didn't compile adrt
19:19.03maheshI compiled it manually
19:19.06Twingyk
19:19.19Twingyso now you need to generate a framework for it to grok
19:19.29Twingyyou can either do that in brl-cad or blender
19:19.59maheshdo I have to install any other stuff to do it?
19:20.16Twingyif you're going to do your modeling in brl-cad no, if you plan to use blender, you need blender of course
19:20.43maheshok, let me tell you clearly what I want
19:20.59maheshI am planning to grid enable rise
19:21.25maheshso want to render some images to get a feel of it
19:21.36Twingy"grid enable" ?
19:21.55maheshthat means, using grid computing to speed up the rendering
19:22.28Twingyah, you mean distributed computing
19:22.33maheshyes
19:22.57Twingywell, you could start by modeling a cornell box in brl-cad
19:23.04Twingyand facetizing it
19:23.05maheshis this Justin Shumaker?
19:23.07Twingyyep
19:23.16maheshok:)
19:23.33Twingyusing the "mged" program there is a primtive called an "ARB8"
19:23.38Twingywhich is basically a box
19:23.51Twingyyou could model the 5 walls of the cornell box, make a light source, and place a box in it
19:24.06Twingythen use the "Facetize" command to turn it from CSG into Triangles
19:24.12maheshok
19:24.21Twingythen use g-adrt to make a framework for RISE to render
19:24.40Twingyyou might want to try going through one or two fo the 10 minute tutorials
19:24.57Twingyto get a feel for how to model things in brl-cad
19:24.59maheshwhere can i find the tutorials?
19:25.04Twingyone sec
19:25.19Twingythe tutorials are quite nice
19:25.47maheshdo you have links to it or ?
19:26.36Twingyhttp://brlcad.org/
19:26.40Twingy"Introduction to MGED"
19:26.51Twingyit's a pdf file
19:27.12maheshok
19:27.21maheshgot it
19:27.34Twingyjust read through that until you get the hang of it
19:27.43Twingyit's quite powerful and precise
19:27.52maheshalright
19:28.21Twingymight want to read it in 2 or 3 sitting sessions
19:28.24maheshonce i read that, will I be in a position to use rise?
19:28.29Twingyindeed
19:28.41Twingydistributed computing is no extra work
19:29.20maheshyou mean, it already has the capabilities to run on multiple machines?
19:29.24Twingyyes
19:29.28Twingyyou start up a master
19:29.37Twingyand have it connect to N machines, or manually connect N machines to the master
19:29.47Twingymore machines the faster it goes
19:29.55Twingyit's trivial
19:30.12maheshso there is no point in me working on it, is it?
19:30.13Twingy./rise_slave master.host.name
19:30.23Twingyworking on what?
19:31.03maheshi was thinking of grid enabling (distributed computing) rise?
19:31.30Twingyoh, that's already there
19:31.51maheshsince it already has the capabilities, i guess i dont have much left to do
19:32.04Twingywriting convertors to it would be nice ;)
19:32.19Twingysince it's only limited to blender and brl-cad right now :-\
19:32.55maheshcould you pleas elaborate a more?
19:33.16TwingyI have a python script you run inside blender to genrate an ADRT framework for RISE, and g-adrt in brl-cad to generate an ADRT framework for RISE
19:33.35Twingyif you wanted to use 3d studio or maya or something with RISE there is no way to convert right now
19:34.02maheshoh ok..
19:34.13Twingymost people turn to renderman for that sort of thing
19:34.58Twingyonce I get the new kd-tree stuff in as well as integrate that paper on path tracing from thursday it should be a rather competitive global illumination open-source rendering engine
19:35.13maheshgreat
19:35.23maheshI am interested in distributed computing and wanted to do a project kind of a thing in it
19:35.30Twingyah
19:35.33*** join/#brlcad Semhirage_ (~Semhirage@semhirage.user)
19:35.34maheshso came across this
19:35.55Twingywell, I speant the last year and a half working on libtienet (TIE = Triangle Intersection Engine) into ADRT for distributed computing
19:36.18Twingyso that aspect of it is more or less done
19:36.29maheshoh ...wish I knew then
19:36.32Twingyhehe
19:36.43maheshhow about librt?
19:36.58Twingyit uses something called remrt
19:37.03maheshdoes that also have distributed computing capabilities?
19:37.14Twingykinda sorta
19:37.19Twingyit needs alot of work
19:37.23Twingyit was done in the 80's
19:37.28Twingyand hasn't been updated since
19:37.43maheshoh, you think I should jump into it?
19:37.45Twingynobody uses it for distributed computing as a result of no maintenance
19:37.51Twingyyah, that would be great
19:38.04Twingya complete overhaul on that would be quite nice
19:38.16Twingyas it's our CSG rendering engine, and mine is a Triangle rendering engine
19:38.28maheshIf that helps people, I would
19:38.33Twingyit's still the worlds fastest CSG rendering engine I believe
19:39.05Twingyyah, lot's of people still use librt
19:39.18Twingythe person to talk to about that is "brlcad" or "learner"
19:39.24Twingyhe does alot more work with librt than I do
19:39.35TwingyI've only done minimal work with it
19:39.37maheshi am in touch with Sean
19:39.39Twingyyah
19:40.18maheshsince you already have worked in this, how much time do you think will I need to add some distributed computing feature to librt?
19:40.58TwingyI really have no idea, depends on how long it takes you to understand the code and how good your coding skills are
19:41.52Twingyagain, sean is the one you really need to talk to on this
19:42.03maheshhmm...ok
19:42.24TwingyI implemented photon mapping into librt about 3 years ago
19:42.35Twingyso I'm a bit rusty on the internals
19:43.18maheshso, you work full time on brlcad
19:46.15maheshI am a grad student trying to get some experience in distributed computing
19:47.07Twingyah
19:47.21Twingywell, mike muuss was the one who made remrt, the guy you invented "ping"
19:47.30maheshoh wow
19:47.38Twingyso that's all his code
19:47.47Twingyhence the not being worked on since the late 80's
19:47.55Twingyit still works, but it's primitive
19:48.12Twingyalot has changed in distributed raytracing in the last 15 years
19:48.36Twingywhere do you goto school
19:48.43maheshUniversity of Iowa
19:48.46Twingyah
19:48.58TwingyI'm contemplating applying to univ of utah
19:49.19TwingyI learn more on my own than I do at school...  so I'm a bit hesitant to apply
19:49.26maheshha ha
19:49.37maheshdo you want to do your masters or phd or ?
19:50.00TwingyI do alot of electronics in my spare time, so maybe robotics
19:50.20Twingybut I enjoy graphics stuff too... pretty much anything that I find interesting
19:50.39Twingyif peter has an interesting project to work on that would work
19:50.56Twingyif it's some lame grunt work then I'm not interested
19:51.01maheshha ha
19:51.24Twingylife is short, I don't want to spend half my life getting a phd and then get out of school when I'm in my 40's
19:51.51maheshha ha...thats what even i think...so am happy with masters
19:51.55TwingyI do high powered amateur rocketry in my spare time, so I'd have to give that up if I go for a masters
19:52.26maheshwow...you do a lot of interesting stuff....i would not waste any time going to school if I were you
19:52.53TwingyI'll know more in the coming months whether I really want to dive into a masters or not
19:53.04maheshhow old are you?
19:53.10Twingyit seems like you get no respect unless you have a PhD at siggraph
19:53.12TwingyI'm 24
19:53.42Twingyhttp://rt.cx/rocket/static_field_tests/2005.07.15/
19:53.55Twingy^-- my latest static test burn
19:53.57maheshi thought people look more at the knowledge than the degree
19:54.12Twingyunfortunately management only looks at the degree where I work
19:54.35Twingyyou can be dumb as a brick with 2 PhD's and get paid out the wazoo
19:54.41maheshwhere do you work?
19:54.45Twingyarmy research lab
19:54.57maheshcool
19:55.08Twingythe pay is nice... and the work is interesting...
19:55.24maheshthen why are you even thinking of going to school?
19:55.45Twingyhigher pay and recognition mainly
19:55.52maheshhmmm
19:56.07maheshI want to be in the field of distributed computing
19:56.18Twingyyou should work where we do then
19:56.26Twingywe got a few super computers upwards of 2380 processors
19:56.55maheshbut may be only US nationals can work in your place?
19:57.04Twingyright
19:57.24maheshso that is not possible
19:57.30Twingyyah :\
19:57.40maheshI will have to look at software industry
19:57.59Twingyyep
19:58.24TwingyI wrote a nurbs modeler in college for 3 years
19:58.34TwingyI'm helping emanual with blender integrate it as "libNurbana" in to blender right now
19:58.38Twingyso I'm quite busy :\
19:58.52maheshyou are just amazing man
19:59.07Twingyit's amazing what you can get done when you don't have women to entertain :)
19:59.16maheshha ha
19:59.19Twingymy productivity went to 0 when I had my girl friend last year :)
19:59.32maheshthat is not always true i guess
19:59.47Twingyno, but statistically true ;)
20:00.06maheshi can not argue because i dont have one:)
20:00.23Twingyunless she's got a good personality it aint worth it :)
20:00.38maheshyou seem to have had an experience
20:00.45Twingyyes :)
20:01.03TwingyI got rid of her to get back to raytracing ;)
20:01.16Twingyshe wasn't very happy :|
20:01.17maheshfunny
20:01.29maheshobviously a great guy like you...
20:03.51Twingywelp, I'm off to home depot to replace my door bell button
20:04.00Twingyback in 90
20:04.23maheshalright
20:04.25maheshttyl
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050807

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050807

01:05.55*** join/#brlcad Semhirage (~Semhirage@semhirage.user)
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04:00.40*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
05:12.51Twingyo.O
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19:15.15prasad_ping?
20:36.37Twingypong
20:38.11Twingypicked out my next laptop
20:38.24Twingyrt.cx/~justin/ibm_laptop.pdf
21:37.29prasad_i was going for a solaris laptop
21:39.03prasad_but im getting a mac
22:09.57Twingywee
23:34.42prasad_how was siggraph
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23:52.53Twingybeyond your wildest dreams
23:53.23Twingythis was arguably the best year yet
23:53.52Twingyplus I just picked up another 6% performance boost on my tracer
23:53.56Twingy*grin*
23:55.07Twingyfor incoherent rays no less
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050808

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050808

00:03.19prasad_pix?
00:09.57Twingyerm
00:10.06TwingyI haven't modified the optical rendering any
00:10.32TwingyI'd say by early this week I should be above the 1 million hump
00:18.13Twingyo.O
00:46.06CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c:
00:46.06CIA-2BRL-CAD: TIE is now more than 5% faster for incoherent rays.
00:46.06CIA-2BRL-CAD: It now properly uses ray segments.
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01:03.46Twingyo.O
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01:18.35Twingyhrm
02:09.20silvap_i meant pix from the convention
02:27.34Twingyah
02:27.35Twingyyes
02:27.44Twingycare to see?
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04:49.30*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.4.0 is now posted (20050712) || ACM SIGGRAPH 2005 is under way -- see everyone there
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19:41.53RobstafarianI'm having trouble running 'fbserv'
19:43.00RobstafarianI'm following the tutorial in the MGED manual, building a cup, and the example frame buffer device "/dev/sgip" does not exist on my system
19:43.08Robstafarianwhat device should I use instead?
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19:47.09Robstafarianis anyone actually here?
19:51.33troyI'm alive, but just popped in for the first time
19:51.46troywaiting for compile to finish - reading some docs first
19:52.24RobstafarianI'm having trouble with the tutorial
19:52.40troyI'm not that far in yet...
19:52.55Robstafarianthe MGED manual has a nice tutorial on how to build a coffee mug, though it is missing a couple of code snippets
19:53.10Robstafarianif you read carefully, you can infer the commands that are missing
19:53.18Robstafarianmy problem is with a command listed
19:53.52Robstafarianit would appear that MGED can't see the entries in my /dev
19:54.06Robstafarianwhich prevents me from opening a rendering window
19:54.27Robstafariantroy, what OS are you running?
19:54.36troyfreebsd
19:54.49Robstafarianah, I'm on Linux
19:55.03troyshould not be largely different wrt this software
19:55.32Robstafarianthat's my thinking, though FreeBSD and Linux (using udev) handle devices differently
19:56.19RobstafarianI'm starting to think I should help with the docutmentation effort, those missing code (actually, command) examples could prove a dead end for some readers
19:56.30troydifferent /dev naming scheme - different libc - few other different things
19:56.56Robstafarianif you like, I'll hang around until you get to that point in the tutorial and tell you what was left out
19:57.06troyIt'll be some hours
19:57.09troymaybe tomorrow
19:57.10Robstafarianah
19:58.19troywhat I'm most interested in is if there are any built-in statics calculations to save me some time... will a given wall hold a weight, etc.
19:58.51Robstafarianfrom the description, it sounds like there might be
19:59.12Robstafarianobjects being logical structures that appear to rely on a database of properties
19:59.34Robstafarianfor instance, the effect of using "plastic" for the shader of an object is not specified as a command
19:59.45Robstafarianso, the meaning of "plastic" must be embedded somewhere
19:59.58troyright - but how advanced is it... will it handle masonry or similar... (how thick does the stone wall have to be at 12 metres, etc.
20:00.06RobstafarianI suppose it's possible there are more detailed physical properties in that definition
20:01.19Robstafarianit certainly sounds like BRL-CAD has some ability to simulate physical interactions
20:01.44troyyes, from the description, I could not only build my stone wall, but fire a cannon at it
20:02.15Robstafarianwhich would be GREAT  8?}
20:02.37troyindeed - anyway, I'll be back once it's done compiling
20:03.18Robstafarianalright, good luck
22:37.39*** part/#brlcad troy (N=troy@wnpgmb01dc2-39-22.dynamic.mts.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050809

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050809

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050810

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050810

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18:39.36heinahey, is Justin around?
20:33.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/define.h libtie/tie.c rise/master/master.c): added surface area termination criteria
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050811

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050811

00:55.09Twingyhi
00:55.11Twingythis is justin
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16:34.29``Erikhttp://babb.sytes.net/PUB/GAHHH_paperclip.PNG heh
16:35.15Twingy_heh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050812

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050812

00:49.28silvap_justin
00:49.29silvap_u there?
01:00.20Twingyyah
02:59.29heinajustin. ola
02:59.56Twingyhi
02:59.57heinai met u at SIGGRAPH. after the rtrt day.
03:00.02Twingyah, ok
03:00.06heinaremember now.
03:00.08heinakewl
03:00.18Twingyyou were talking to gordon with me?
03:00.47heinanodnod
03:00.52heinayou mentioned 700 lines of code.
03:00.56Twingyyep
03:00.57heinapoking around, i assume you mean in the rt dir
03:01.01Twingynope
03:01.06heinawhereat?
03:01.09Twingythat's brl-cad's raytracer
03:01.15Twingybrlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c
03:01.31Twingythat's the source for the engine
03:01.33heinaah!
03:01.37heinaok. wouldn't have found that.
03:02.10Twingywe were poking at the assembly output of the engine today
03:02.20TwingyI'm starting on some of the SSE intrinsics next week
03:02.41heinaso what's in the tie engine exactly?
03:02.46Twingylook at the header
03:03.09Twingyand the top of tie.c
03:03.17Twingytie.c has doxygen documentation
03:03.28heinaah
03:03.36heinai have ctags anyway.
03:04.25heinaso that's what you're using mostly to "throw together" some rt'ing?
03:04.27Twingyin its current state you'll get about 250k - 400k rays on 250k triangles on a 3ghz p4
03:04.40Twingyit's the backend to the two applications, "RISE" and "ISST"
03:04.50TwingyISST is the interactive application, RISE is for producing realistic images
03:05.09Twingylike this
03:05.15Twingywww.rt.cx/~justin/images/stryker_slat.png
03:05.26heinaso, basically it's the non-shader part of the rt, which does the kd-tree and ray calculations on arbitrary meshes.
03:05.35Twingyright
03:05.47Twingyone source file and 2 headers
03:05.52heinalove it
03:05.53heina;)
03:06.07Twingyturn-key
03:06.10heinabtw, i picked up that physically based rendering book that they recommended. haven't gotten too into it, but it's a definite great book
03:06.16heinaooh...pretty pictures there.
03:06.20heinahow're you shading that?
03:06.24Twingypath tracing
03:06.26Twingy8 trillion rays
03:06.36heinalol. ah, that's the non-interactive one.
03:07.04Twingyright
03:07.15Twingythat's with depth of field
03:07.21heinawas just noticing that.
03:07.54heinathe ambient occlusion looks so good on rt images. (global illumination)
03:08.02Twingyonce I implement energy redistributed path tracing it'll take 1/10th the rays
03:08.20Twingyyah, AO is not bad, but it's still a dirty hack imho :)
03:08.25heinanice. what's the overhead on that.
03:08.27heinaAO rocks!
03:08.28Twingyfor interactive stuff it's the way to go
03:08.29heina:) for offline
03:08.34heinadoing bent normals as well.
03:08.42TwingyAO or instant radiosity
03:08.44heinagoing to play around with switching it all over to PRT though
03:08.52heinaheh
03:09.00Twingythere is a lib there called libtienet
03:09.06Twingyso if you want to distribute you code with tie
03:09.10Twingyyou can use libtienet as well
03:09.12heinawe've got a mental ray plugin that generates AO/BN and bakes it to textures.
03:09.29heinadoh. i see it's copyright army.
03:09.39TwingyGPL
03:09.41heinais it GPL?
03:09.46heinagreat
03:09.53TwingyLGPL actually
03:09.59Twingy<PROTECTED>
03:09.59Twingy<PROTECTED>
03:09.59Twingy<PROTECTED>
03:10.08heinai can't imagine i'd distribute it for anything, but definitely for offline tools and such.
03:10.14heinanodnod <-- knows LGPL and GPL
03:10.29Twingywelp, it'd be nice to see people other than us using it
03:10.34Twingythen I can get some feedback for improvements and whatnot
03:10.37heinaok kewl. i'm glad i caught you on here, cuz i was poking around in the rt directory and it didn't look right.
03:10.45Twingyyah, that's all CSG stuff
03:10.48heinawhat i would use it for is the following...
03:10.51Twingy~25k - 30k rays/sec
03:11.09heina...i'd use it for generating AO/BN or PRT information in plugins to DCC tools (like maya)
03:11.23heinai might also play around with a rt on the Cell, but you didn't hear that from me. hehe
03:11.46TwingyPRT is photon mapping?
03:11.52silvap_cell..?
03:11.55heinathe rt is ~25-30k cuz of CSG?   the tie is doing more like 400k/sec?
03:12.02Twingyright
03:12.05heinacell - new IBM processor in the PlayStation 3.
03:12.07TwingyTIE is over an order of magnitude faster
03:12.27Twingylibrt was written by Mike Muuss, the guy that invented "ping"
03:12.31heinaPRT --> pre-computed radiance transfer for relighting and getting low-frequency lighting (soft shadows, AO, BN) at interactive rates
03:12.32silvap_thought so :P
03:12.36heinaping!
03:12.42heinarock on.  (old network programmer here )
03:12.49Twingyit was the first real-time raytracer
03:12.49silvap_are u on the ps3 dev team?
03:12.57Twingy~1995
03:13.09heinano, i'm with a 3rd party developer
03:13.20heinathere was a guy...Pat....H-something who was at SIGGRAPH who is.
03:13.22silvap_game dev?
03:13.29Twingywell, hopefully that number will jump from ~400k to ~800k over the next month
03:13.33heinaTake Two/Visual Concepts
03:13.36TwingyPat Hanrahan?
03:13.40heinayes
03:13.41silvap_whoa cool
03:13.45heinadamn, that's SSE for ya
03:13.49heinagrin, thx
03:14.12Twingyif I can get the MLRTA in I should be around 1.6 mil or so
03:14.22heinamy last game was for THQ/Pandemic studios....if you guys are military, you might know it.   Full Spectrum Warrior.   i did all the networking for that game
03:14.29heinaMLRTA?
03:14.35silvap_lol sweet
03:14.39Twingymulti level ray tracing algorithm
03:14.49heinadidn't catch that one
03:14.57heinafuck. 1.6 million tris/sec.
03:15.06Twingyit's a frustum culling method
03:15.16Twingyprimarily for optical rendering
03:15.21silvap_so whats up with the interest in rt? trying to get real time ray tracing on the ps3?
03:15.31heinagrin
03:15.31Twingywe do alot of ballistic analysis that involves firing rays all the way through geometry building a hitlist
03:15.44heinaoh sweet. that's kewl stuff.
03:15.50Twingyas far as I know this is the fastest open-source ray-tracing engine
03:15.55Twingythe faster ones are all closed source
03:16.00heinadamn. go army
03:16.01heina:)
03:16.09Twingyso, hopefully I'll begin closing the gap
03:16.16heinasilvap_, we are currently using RT for generating information offline.
03:16.38heinasilvap_, we can't do RT cuz it looks like crap, but probably you'll see some demos soon. next-gen (5 years from now) we might.
03:16.55heinanice. how much with the MLRTA complicate the code?
03:16.59silvap_nice
03:17.04Twingysaarland is doing some work with cell processors and rt
03:17.08Twingyquite a bit
03:17.11silvap_oh, didnt know
03:17.15heinayeah, that's big news
03:17.17Twingythe frustum culling stuff complicates things
03:17.28silvap_how's development on the ps3?
03:17.29heinaif they get that FPGA implementation onto an ASIC or if Nvidia or ATI pick that up...then we'll have vun
03:17.36silvap_i assume u guys already have a reference platform?
03:17.37Twingythe engine code itself is too cryptic to understand without the comments as it is
03:17.44heinalol
03:17.48TwingyI asked them how their asic progress was coming
03:17.49heinathat sucks. make it longer and clearer.
03:17.52heinayeah?
03:17.56heinai hope they get traction on that.
03:17.59TwingyI bought an fpga for testing some rt code at work, but haven't had time yet
03:18.03heinasilvap_, it's interesting. still very early.
03:18.09TwingyI think they should shove their transistors into an nvidia card
03:18.11heinahaha
03:18.22heinayou bought an FPGA. nice
03:18.35silvap_what's the bottom line? 2 baziilion flops hype is true? =)
03:18.37heinayeah, i agree with that. there's a fair bit of shared approach, but it's really the memory bus that is key
03:18.45heinasilvap_, not supposed to say.
03:18.50silvap_ohh
03:18.56heinasilvap_, let's just say hype is hype.
03:19.10Twingyheina, I think all you need is about a dozen lines of code to actually write a test app with the engine stand-alone
03:19.31Twingyjust remember to use all the optimizations
03:19.34heinathere are some awesome things you can do with the Cell you can't do on other proc's just cuz it is so setup for massive SSE stuff, but it's weak in other areas. extremely complicated to code for, but we'll get it figured out
03:19.42Twingynot just -O3
03:19.57heinaTwingy, you should put together a "hello world" style rt app. something that renders a triangle.
03:20.04TwingyI am, tommorrow morning
03:20.12heinasend me that.
03:20.15heinayou have my email?
03:20.20Twingynope
03:20.25Twingysend me a msg, justin@arl.army.mil
03:21.03heinasent
03:21.07Twingyk
03:21.21TwingyI'll be interested to see how my engine would fair on a cell processor with such limited cache
03:21.28silvap_ps4 with 48 cells
03:21.30heinasweet. ok, i gotta get back to this shadow code. doing shadow map implementation
03:21.37Twingyokie
03:21.38silvap_justin, 60 fps for stryker
03:21.45heinawhen i get a cell under my desk, i'll set it up and let you know
03:21.55Twingyhehe, k
03:21.57heinai want to play around with some rt stuff on there.
03:22.05Twingyall we got is 2,308 cpu opteron cluster
03:22.14silvap_lies
03:22.17Twingyerr 2,380 rather
03:22.20heinathe trick is the SPU cache is only 200k, so going to either need tiny models instanced, or a streaming solution.
03:22.23heinafuck
03:22.33Twingy6GB per node
03:22.50heinaheh. so what do you need an optimized RT for again?
03:22.51heina:)
03:23.00Twingybeats me :)
03:23.01silvap_he's anal like that
03:23.17Twingythose machines are batch queue'd
03:23.25Twingyso getting interactive time on them is not really possible
03:23.25heinaah
03:23.30heinagood point.
03:23.32silvap_im telling u man; lock everyone out
03:23.35Twingyfor RISE it would be nice
03:23.45Twingypath tracing a few hundred trillion rays
03:23.46heinayou could tile render like crazy to that
03:23.56Twingythe network i/o would kill you
03:24.01Twingyit's myrinet
03:24.02heina8 pixels to each cpu
03:24.08Twingyso I'd have to use MPI to get any benefit
03:24.19Twingyunless you used the myrinet it would not be worth it
03:24.28heinapush all the geometry out. all you're pushing is camera matrix and getting pixel colors back.
03:24.41Twingycorrect, but like I said, the latency is what kills you
03:24.45heinanodnod
03:24.49heinawell, the Cell is kinda like that
03:24.57heinayou do all the work out on the SPU's but it's got a wicked fast bus
03:25.05heinathe bus can write directly to the VRAM too....sexy
03:25.08heinarather, the SPU's
03:25.09Twingyshoulda gone to siggraph prasad
03:25.20heinaomg SIGGRAPH ftw
03:25.54*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@ip68-230-220-222.rd.hr.cox.net)
03:25.57heinaif you get the proceedings on dvd, check out the PRT half-day.  from monday. you'll find that really interesting. all kinds of kewl linear algebra. lotsa Spherical Harmonics and such. kewl.
03:26.00heinanice
03:26.06Twingyk
03:26.15Twingyhow'd that sketch go?
03:26.25heinak. back to work. gonna idle on here. be around.
03:26.34Twingyokie, I'm usually on here during work day
03:26.40heinakewl. c u round
03:27.13starseekeris this the channel for the BRL computer aided design package?
03:27.27Twingyyes it is
03:27.32starseekerCool
03:27.41Twingywe've been discovered, flee!
03:27.45starseekergonna take a run at 7.4.0 on Gentoo
03:27.49Twingyk
03:28.00Twingyprobly take you 15 - 30 mins to compile
03:28.10silvap_stop torturing me with siggraph!
03:28.20Twingy:)
03:28.22silvap_i was a fool!
03:28.31Twingynext year prasad, boston
03:28.40silvap_yay
03:28.45silvap_no jet lag
03:28.49Twingyyou could even... ride your bike
03:28.49starseekerTwingy:  my main concern is avoiding library name conflicts - last time I did this I hosed my system but good
03:29.03Twingywell set your configure prefix to something like
03:29.10Twingy/home/username/local
03:29.24Twingyconfigure --enable-optimized --prefix=/home/username/local
03:29.28Twingythen add ~/local/bin to your path
03:29.44Twingythen you're set
03:29.44starseekerTwingy:  That would work for a local install, but I'm trying to create/debug a gentoo ebuild
03:29.50Twingyah, k
03:29.57Twingythen maybe put in /usr/local/brlcad
03:30.00silvap_Twingy, u have a gcc x87 instr reference handy?
03:30.06silvap_online
03:30.07Twingysilva, negative
03:30.22silvap_how am i going to trace this code then..
03:30.30Twingywield the mighty google
03:30.35silvap_negative
03:31.34Twingyhttp://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:food28db1d0J:security-protocols.com/programming-tutorials/Assembly/fpuopcode.html+x87+instruction+list&hl=en
03:32.43TwingyI should put that onto my objectives for next year
03:33.04silvap_who has hot friends
03:33.29Twingyme
03:33.30Twingy:)
03:34.08silvap_who has hot female friends
03:34.31silvap_look, there are plenty of x87 references online
03:34.37silvap_none with gcc specific stuff
03:34.42silvap_ie: flds
03:35.24Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/images/disney_2005/DSCN0747.JPG
03:35.28starseekerOut of curosity, has anybody here ever successfully figured out SALOME?
03:35.41Twingyhttp://www.rt.cx/~justin/SIGGRAPH_2005/images/DSCN0917.jpg
03:37.09starseekerhttp://www.salome-platform.org/home/presentation/overview/
03:37.47silvap_and who dumped his gf for a ray tracer?
03:37.49silvap_huh? HUH?
03:37.51silvap_=)
03:38.20Twingyis that a FEM engine?
03:38.54Twingyhrm, dad is buying sushi tommorrow
03:39.01starseekerIt seems to be for numerical simulation on models, but I've never run it to see
03:39.06Twingyah
03:39.08Twingylooks interesting
03:39.08starseekerdependency list is a killer
03:39.39starseekerSeems to use open cascade, that's why I'm curious
03:40.04starseekermight be worth an ebuild (or 10) if it's powerful enough to be useful - Linux is a tad short on CAD options at the moment :-(
03:43.07starseekerbuilding... building...
03:43.42Twingygot 2 cpus?
03:43.44Twingyor HT?
03:43.59starseekerNah, just one - an old AMD AthlonXP
03:44.03Twingyk
03:51.31silvap_justin
03:51.39Twingyyou rang?
03:51.46silvap_are u doing the sse in asm or using the c funcs/macros
03:51.49silvap_whatever they are
03:51.53TwingySSE intrinsincs
03:52.02Twingygoogle for that, check out the MSDN site
03:52.08Twingy70 instructions
03:53.26silvap_well they are exposed through functions, no?
03:53.37Twingythey're... intrinsics
03:53.59Twingythe compiler treats them in a special way
03:54.05silvap_u and ur buzzwords
03:55.23Twingybuzzzzzz
03:55.28Twingywerds
03:56.19starseekerCurosity question - could the java parts of brlcad conceivably work with gcj, or do they need sun/something else mature?
03:57.10Twingyno clue, I'm a java troglodyte
03:57.17silvap_so am i
03:57.24TwingyI took a 4 month course on it, but purged it from my head
03:57.29Twingyapparently I got an A in it
03:57.38silvap_smart man
03:58.02Twingyhrm, these bananas are a tad green
03:58.05silvap_ive lost my roots since m3
03:58.14TwingyI think erik has too
03:58.25starseekerah, libbu  one of many sources of name troubles :-).
03:58.28Twingyfeels good to dive into some assembly no?
03:58.42Twingystarseeker, you really wanna talk to sean
03:58.46Twingyhe'll be on tommorrow
03:58.50starseekerCool.
03:59.09starseekerHe may remember me - I'm the one who was on here a long while back mucking with Gentoo
03:59.16Twingyk
03:59.39starseekerI don't know cad worth squat, but I figure doing my part to bring BRLCAD to a larger audience is the least I can do...
04:00.41starseekerTwingy:  Are you a core coder for BRL-CAD?
04:01.03Twingyerm, define brl-cad :)
04:01.14TwingyI know very little about brl-cad, I implemented photon mapping into it, but that's it
04:01.17starseekerThe huge thingy I just downloaded ;-)
04:01.19silvap_me like assembly
04:01.21Twingywell
04:01.30TwingyI also did the high performance ray-tracer in "adrt" under src/
04:01.37Twingybut it's not exactly "part" of brl-cad
04:01.42Twingyit's just sitting there for open source reasons
04:01.47starseeker:-)
04:01.57silvap_starseeker, the core coder is stuck on a train somewhere in the midwest at this very moment
04:02.03Twingyyah
04:02.05Twingyso if it explodes
04:02.07Twingywe're all doomed
04:02.09starseekerOoo, that's not fun
04:02.27silvap_seriously, where is sean?
04:03.50Twingyhiding under my bed
04:04.01Twingydon't tell lee
04:04.03silvap_from tranese?
04:04.09silvap_she's in a bad mood
04:04.14Twingyfrom darth vadress
04:04.17silvap_thanks to mister owens
04:04.23Twingyah
04:04.25Twingywell
04:04.30Twingystir up the bee hive and bad shit happens
04:05.20silvap_stirring up hives don't usually end up with the queen leaving
04:05.27Twingyheh
04:05.36Twingythey do when you do her sister
04:05.38Twingyerr
04:05.40Twingy:)
04:05.48Twingywrong topic
04:06.44TwingyI think nasa should send a few monkey's to mars
04:07.05Twingyrig up some electrodes to their head with some 'ai' software to build a colony
04:07.59Twingysilvap_, you ever listen to XRM radio?
04:08.36silvap_no
04:08.49Twingytry it sometime, shoutcast.com, xrm electronic
04:09.18TwingyI really need to finish my nose cone for the rocket
04:09.44Twingymaybe I'll just do something lame and make a linear cone
04:11.53Twingywe need vulnerability algorithms that use SSE intrinsics
04:13.38Twingyprasad, check this out
04:14.02Twingyrt.cx/~justin/inspiron_700m.pdf
04:15.22starseekerbah, more weirdness
04:15.36starseekerToo tired to mess with this tonight, I'll probably try tomorrow
04:15.39starseekerthanks all!
04:15.46Twingyk
04:15.58silvap_did u put in the orders yet?
04:16.09Twingyyah, but nothings been ordered yet
04:16.13Twingywhy?
04:16.23silvap_im supposed to get a mac lappy
04:16.33TwingyI put you down for a 15" w/ 2GB
04:16.52silvap_ok
04:17.04Twingyor maybe it was a 8"
04:17.07TwingyI can't remember
04:17.08Twingy;)
04:17.13silvap_wondering if gettting a sparc10 lappy is more useful
04:17.17Twingyheh
04:17.25Twingywhy on earth would you want that
04:17.29silvap_that's right
04:17.31silvap_no more m3
04:18.20Twingysay hello to m3.5
04:19.47silvap_nM
04:20.03silvap_nano m*****
04:20.07Twingyheh
04:20.42silvap_did u say u wanted to do the procedural textures?
04:20.47silvap_or was that something else
04:21.48TwingyI have a couple already
04:21.53Twingybut more are welcome
04:22.01silvap_couple what?
04:22.01TwingyI'd like a sparkle texture
04:22.06Twingyprocedural textures
04:22.11silvap_oh
04:22.13Twingylike glitter/sparkle
04:22.30Twingythen we could do glitter stryker
04:22.31silvap_i meant the material core
04:22.38Twingyor sparkle stryker
04:22.42Twingythat's what I mean
04:22.47Twingytexture/material
04:22.58TwingyI'm using interchangeably
04:23.02silvap_ahso
04:23.19Twingyhrm
04:23.23Twingyonly $94 to fly out to reno
04:23.33silvap_this was in post processing yes?
04:23.42silvap_or is this aggregation per interaction
04:23.47Twingyno
04:23.51Twingyray his surface
04:23.56Twingysurface generates color for surface
04:24.08Twingy(and/or normal)
04:24.14Twingyand gets processed by rendering method
04:24.21Twingy*hits
04:24.53Twingywhat I really need is clouds
04:24.55Twingymore than anything
04:25.05Twingysome kickass volumetric cell clouds
04:25.09silvap_volumetric
04:25.12silvap_jinx
04:25.19Twingymoo
04:25.31silvap_MoooOOoOOoOOoOOOO
04:25.56Twingyyou see that bovine programming language?
04:25.59silvap_@.@ Oroooooo!?
04:26.06silvap_i believe i did
04:26.15TwingyI think muves should get written in that
04:27.05silvap_u think gcc CFLAGS_SUPER_OPT produces the fastest code possible?
04:27.19silvap_or u think i can find some opcodes to prune out
04:27.35TwingyI think I'm going to come up with a benchmark app tommorrow and you guys can help me test ideas :)
04:27.59silvap_'write the whole thing in assembly'
04:28.01silvap_that's my idea
04:28.04Twingybad idea :)
04:28.18silvap_it's not really that hard
04:28.20Twingythough the engine it's pretty much defined well enough you could
04:28.38silvap_im talkng about _work
04:28.57Twingyyah
04:29.26silvap_send me the asm listing u printed out today thru email
04:29.44silvap_i need to.. uh.. substitute a cpl of stack-offsets with variable names
04:29.46silvap_for my own sanity
04:30.06Twingywe can do it tommorrow, I'm heading to bed soon :)
04:30.11silvap_same
04:30.16silvap_gntie
04:30.18TwingyI have like elevendy billion things to get done in the next 2 weeks
04:30.19silvap_gnite
04:30.22Twingylater
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22:29.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (29 files): Doxygen changes
22:30.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (50 files): Doxygen changes
22:30.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (46 files): Doxygen changes
22:31.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (151 files): Doxygen changes
22:41.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/Doxyfile: Doxygen incorporation
22:42.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Fixed paralell bug
23:38.36Twingymoo
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050813

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050813

01:42.12maheshin rise, I know it has capabilities to run on multiple machines
01:42.28Twingyyep
01:42.38maheshthere, what data is partitioned and given to different machines?
01:42.50Twingya frame is broken into tiles
01:43.10Twingyfor 640 480 you might have 8 x 6 tiles
01:43.21Twingyone of those tiles is sent to an available worker
01:43.26Twingyand it computes some pixels
01:43.30Twingyand the result is sent back
01:43.30maheshmay be a silly question, where does this idea of frames fit into model and objects?
01:43.39Twingyit doesn't
01:44.10Twingya 'frame' a set of pixels you are rendering with a given camera position, focal point, resolution, and perspective
01:44.23Twingyamong other things
01:44.34maheshok
01:45.00Twingybrlcad requires you to specify that on the command line if that is how you are using rt
01:45.11Twingythere is no 'file' the camera is stored in
01:45.28Twingyin ADRT there is a frames.db file that camera and transformation matrices for the objects is stored
01:45.39maheshoh ok
01:45.43Twingy*has
01:45.53TwingyADRT is not related to librt at all
01:46.14maheshoh, that was the reason for confusion...i get it now
01:46.22Twingyg-adrt convertor makes up a camera for you when running it
01:46.27Twingyit's up to you to position it
01:46.39Twingyor if you use blender
01:46.46Twingyit'll grab the camera object from there
01:47.20maheshis it possible for you to walk me through a rendering now (may be a simple one)?
01:47.30Twingyusing librt or rise?
01:47.34maheshrise
01:47.41Twingydid you facetize an object yet?
01:47.49maheshno
01:47.51Twingyk
01:47.58Twingyonce you've modeled your toy truck or whatever
01:48.14Twingyif all you want is to do non-photorealistic rendering
01:48.18Twingythen you are good to go
01:48.28Twingyotherwise, you will probably want to place it in a box with a ceiling light
01:48.51Twingyso take your toy truck
01:48.56Twingyand model a box with 6 walls
01:49.06Twingyand place a box at the top to be the ceiling light
01:49.28Twingythat'll give you a way to simulate global illumination
01:49.42maheshI am very new to cad and I don't know much these things....
01:49.53Twingywell, a wall will be an arb8 primitive
01:49.55Twingyin brlcad
01:50.09Twingyfigure out how big you want the room to be
01:50.15Twingysay 3m x 3m x 2m
01:50.27Twingyand model the 6 walls of the room
01:50.36Twingythen make a 1cm light at the ceiling using another arb8
01:50.43Twingy1m x 1m x 1cm
01:50.44maheshI have no idea where to start...Is there a tutorial kind of a thing for beginners?
01:50.48Twingyyes
01:50.51TwingyI gave you the link last time
01:50.57maheshoh ok
01:51.02maheshi have it...
01:51.08Twingythere are lessons that take you all the way up to the point where you can model a toy truck
01:51.18TwingyI think lesson 19 or something is where you actually model a toy truck
01:51.35maheshok, i will learn that first then
01:53.18maheshsorry for troubling you
02:23.33Twingyno prob :)
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03:46.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (sim_brlcad.c sim_brlcad.h): un-used source for more than a year.
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15:22.55starseekerDoes anybody know if Debian has successfully packaged BRL-CAD?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050814

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050814

02:47.04*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050815

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050815

03:46.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 4 dirs): adding local benchmark utility minus networking stuff to do benchmarking with TIE.
03:47.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/ (Makefile.am bench.c bench.h main.c): some of the benchmarking files
04:15.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't forget to add new directories to the top-level configure or their Makefile.in will not get generated (src/adrt/bench)
04:38.10*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-239-24.client.mchsi.com)
18:15.20brlcadgreat! :)
18:15.36brlcadhrmm..
18:22.58brlcadmmm.. bike ride to boston...
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19:22.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (gqa.sh Makefile.am): Integrated g_qa testing. Not that at the moment we run the test but don't check the results.
19:34.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl: Add support for "text" entries
19:36.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Drawable.tcl Mged.tcl): Add set_outputHandler method
19:44.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Mods for rt and rtedge to work on Windows
19:46.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: Mods for Windows port
20:21.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/ (Makefile.am bench.c): working now
20:50.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/bench.c: here we go.
20:58.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (whereis.c which.c brlcad_path.c): Use SNPRINTF macro defined in bu.h
21:00.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: include stdio.h to get rid of FOPEN_MAX redefinition warning
21:18.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbn/plot3.c: Add code to set/get the plot's output mode (i.e. binary or text)
21:22.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/strsol.c: include stdio.h to get rid of FOPEN_MAX redefinition warning on Windows
21:33.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/vlist.c: Mods to support text mode for uplots
21:36.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Mods for Windows port; add set_outputHandler and set_uplotOutputMode methods
21:39.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modify rmap command when checking for aircode match
21:40.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (nirt.c qray.h): Mods for Windows port
21:42.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewcheck.c: Add support for outputting plot in text mode
21:43.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: Add support for outputting plot in text mode
21:44.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: Mods for Windows port
21:46.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl_win32.c: Mods for Windows port
21:47.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/asize.c: include fb.h
21:51.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h config_win.h plot3.h raytrace.h): Mods for Windows port
22:31.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/gqa.sh: Regression test refinements for g_qa
22:38.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c):
22:38.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: Refined production of plot output into individual files.
22:38.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: Built test cases for each analysis type.
22:38.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: Added -p command line option to suppress (default) or produce plot files.
22:38.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: Banged head against keyboard until units were reported correctly.
22:38.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: Gave up on making floating point values average correctly.
22:38.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: Cleaned up output to always (I think) report the user specified units.
22:40.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: Cleaned up function declarations
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050816

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050816

03:29.07Twingyaha
03:29.11Twingya 1.1% speedup
03:35.44brlcada 101% speedup?  sweet
04:18.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 3 dirs): in the process of fixing adrt.py and tie.c is ~2% faster.
04:44.17Twingywhat's a sticky date
04:46.47brlcadit's a tag that gets set when you request a specific version of a file based on date
04:46.59brlcadyou can clear sticky tags with update -A
04:47.00TwingyI checked out an older version
04:47.02Twingyk
04:47.19Twingycvs commit -A ?
04:47.49Twingyah
04:47.50Twingythere we go
04:48.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: reverting
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06:14.42learnerhowdy mahesh
07:02.27learnerahh, those are mostly cheaters that slip through
07:02.35learner~ww
07:02.35ibotSucker.
12:11.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/example_geom.c: A heavily annotated example program that accesses geometry from BRL-CAD
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17:01.39learnerin network.cxx network.h should be first, then those system headers, and no common.h
18:53.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c:
18:53.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: Modifications to suppress warnings on IRIX.
18:53.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: included own copy of strsep for those occasions (IRIX) where the system doesn't provide
19:44.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: how about just using strtok() instead like we do elsewhere when strsep() isn't available
19:54.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: snprintf is a win32 compat function too apparently
20:34.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs): remove the SNPRINTF define since it should be safe to use snprintf() now that it's properly accounted for in config_win.h as a compat function
21:02.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/ (isst_python.c master.h): in_hit is now provided in the dump.txt output
21:04.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-4-branch * 10brlcad/ (128 files in 39 dirs): merge in changes through Aug10 for 7.4.2 release
21:10.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-4-branch * 10brlcad/NEWS: wrapped up yesterday, so set the date and prepare for release. remove g_qa write-up until the next release since it's not quite ready yet.
21:11.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-4-branch * 10brlcad/TODO: isst is integrated, the rest is deferred to a future iteration
21:13.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-4-branch * 10brlcad/HACKING: mention updated the TODO file
21:16.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-4-branch * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac include/config_win.h): bump the version up to 7.4.2 for release
21:25.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-4-branch * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: ChangeLog entries for 7.4.2
21:28.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-4-branch * 10brlcad/NEWS: technically this 7.4.2 release only includes changes through the 10th, even if posting on 16th
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050817

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050817

01:04.26*** join/#brlcad polyspin (n=polyspin@pcp0011463358pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
01:21.25polyspinAnyone remember the ThinkGeek USB keys that were ultra-small?  Can't find who made them.
01:23.55Twingyhttp://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6729132&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01049&id=1083715897929
01:25.38polyspinthx!
01:48.08Twingywelp, "technically" I have sse in now :)
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04:25.48Twingyhrm
04:26.10Twingyintegrating sse is a turn-key headache
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05:26.43silvap_Twingy, u there?
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05:28.58silvap_sean?
05:39.25brlcadhey
05:41.20maheshhi sean, I had a question regarding librt
05:41.38brlcadheya mahesh, good to finally catch up with you
05:42.03maheshyeah, I was looking for you for a long time
05:42.33brlcadaway at a conference
05:42.51maheshyeah...also Twingy told me you were sick
05:43.07brlcadheh
05:43.25brlcadI wasn't sick, I was traveling
05:43.37maheshoh ok
05:44.41brlcadso, what's the question?
05:44.54maheshI wanted some help on partitioning the data for raytracing
05:44.58brlcadi saw what you wrote about going forward with librt distributed
05:45.07maheshyes...you are right
05:45.36maheshI was trying to understand the way it is partitioned to run on multiprocessor
05:46.06maheshthat is rt_prep_parallel -- > rt_cut_it --> bu_parallel. ....
05:46.34brlcadbu_parallel is the core parallelizer
05:46.58brlcadruns routines in parallel
05:47.12brlcadusing whatever system facility is required/available
05:47.37maheshso what do you suggest...how should I be doing the data partition?
05:48.10brlcadrt_prep_parallel initializes the per-cpu resource structures that get read/written to
05:48.56brlcadwell, what's you end goal?
05:49.22brlcadto understand what it's currently doing or get it using some grid api, or using MPI or something else?
05:49.53maheshI want to use grid middleware to speed up the rendering
05:50.02maheshthe way i am thinking is
05:50.13maheshI have a model and objects in it
05:50.35maheshIf I could split it up and distribute it to different machines with the help of grid middleware
05:50.50maheshand collect the results and merge
05:51.13maheshit will speed up the process of rendering as a whole
05:51.19brlcadmy initial thought were I doing it would be to rewrite the parallel routines for distributed ones
05:51.37brlcadi.e. create your own rt_prep_distributed()
05:52.14maheshok...so what would that do exactly?
05:52.51brlcadsame for bu_parallel.. write your own bu_distributed()
05:53.37brlcadprep_distributed would do whatever prep you need.. splitting up the data, any shared resources, etc
05:53.48maheshyes, i get it. I was only looking at bu_parallel and rt_prep_parallel to understand how the data is split
05:54.16maheshI am finding it hard to understand how exactly the data is split
05:55.18brlcadwhat do you mean by splitting the data?
05:55.34brlcadrt doesn't "split the data"
05:55.47brlcadother than regular space partitioning
05:55.57maheshthen how does it speed up the whole process when it is run on multiple processors?
05:56.06brlcadand processing the data in chunks of pixels at a time
05:56.17brlcadahh
05:56.19brlcadyeah
05:56.54brlcadraytrace generates the picture, which is a 2D array of independant pixels
05:57.13brlcadit spreads out the processing of those pixels in groups to multiple processors
05:57.49brlcadthere are lots of means to do that, but simple methods usually involve either scanlines at a time, or postage stamp-sized images, etc
05:58.26maheshok..once the processor gets some pixels, what exactly does it do?
05:58.51maheshi mean which function is called (implementation point of view)?
05:58.53brlcadit performs the ray-traversal on each pixel
05:59.08brlcadah, the routine passed to bu_parallel
05:59.20brlcadwhich is basically rt_shootray()
06:00.09maheshi have that definition right here and should I understand that part of the code?
06:00.24maheshit looks just too complicated
06:00.37brlcadthat's the guts to the ray-tracer
06:00.46brlcadyou shouldn't have to need to understand it completely
06:00.52brlcadsince that's what you're distributing
06:01.38maheshok...i get that...now what is the result of ray-traversal (like what output and what format)?
06:01.39brlcadmore specifically, bu_parallel() calls worker()
06:01.59brlcadworker() ends up doing the work.. which is shooting rays (rt_shootray)
06:02.07maheshalright
06:02.53brlcadso for making it distributed, you'll probably want to either modify bu_parallel() and/or modify worker(), but beyond that the logic of librt should pretty much not need to change
06:04.21maheshi think I dont have to take care of those synchronization and threads and stuff because it will be run as single thread on different machines?
06:05.12brlcadyou could not worry about it for starters
06:05.23maheshok
06:05.27brlcadpresume each distributed node is single processor
06:05.37maheshi get it
06:05.39brlcadultimately, you could do both
06:05.56brlcaduse bu_distributed and have it simply invoke a remove bu_parallel
06:06.02brlcads/remove/remote/
06:06.37maheshok
06:09.06maheshso, do you say I don't even have to take care of assigning pixels to machines for ray traversal and collect it?
06:09.07brlcadgotta run out for a little while, but hoepfully that's something to get you started at least looking at the code
06:09.33maheshyeah..sure
06:09.39brlcadthat's what worker() does.. you probably will have to do something there
06:09.47maheshfine
06:09.49brlcadnot sure
06:10.02maheshthats a lot of information for me...thank you very much
06:10.18brlcadno problem, talk more later
06:10.27maheshsure
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050818

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050818

00:30.57*** join/#brlcad hippie23 (n=hippie@207-118-102-163.dyn.centurytel.net)
00:34.48hippie23hello
01:14.10learnerhello
01:20.40hippie23hi
01:20.57hippie23I just downloaded brl-cad
01:20.57learnerhow goes it?
01:21.01hippie23ok
01:21.09learnergreat
01:21.54hippie23I'll brb
01:22.36hippie23I gotta change to root user so I can extract the files to the right directory
01:22.57hippie23unless you know the command line sequence?
01:23.06learneryou have sudo?
01:23.24hippie23im new to linux
01:23.28learnerahh
01:23.36learneryou've already unpacked the tarfile?
01:23.48hippie23no, I havent
01:23.58learnergo ahead and unpack it
01:24.06learnertar zxvf brlcadwhatever.tar.gz
01:24.30hippie23ok
01:24.43learneryou should have a usr directory now?
01:24.50learnerls usr
01:24.51hippie23yes I do
01:25.10learnerlet's see if you have sudo (you should)
01:25.13learnersudo ls
01:25.24learnershould prompt you for your password
01:25.40learner(yours not root's)
01:26.08learnerit'll just run ls as root
01:26.15learnerto make sure it works
01:26.18hippie23oh.. I have a root termanal open
01:26.31learnerthat works too
01:26.36learneryou could have also just run 'su'
01:26.37hippie23its extracting
01:26.55hippie23it just finished
01:27.15learnerwhere did you extract it to?
01:27.49hippie23/usr/brlcad
01:27.56learnergreat :)
01:29.16Twingyhrm
01:29.28TwingyWhatchyou lookin at foo
01:29.30learnerthe next/last step will be to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your PATH
01:36.10learnerhippie23, you got it going yet?
01:38.01hippie23no... it installed to the wrong directory... GRRRRRR!!!!
01:38.25learneryou can just move the directory to where it needs to be
01:38.31learnerunpack it anywhere
01:38.41learnerand as root, mv usr/brlcad /usr/.
01:40.14hippie23ok... now its where it should be
01:40.52learnerfor a quick test: export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
01:40.53learnerrt
01:41.10learnerif it's all good, rt will output a usage message including version information
01:41.33learnerat which point you could fire up the modeler, mged and get started on the tutorials ;)
01:43.13hippie23rt: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by rt)
01:43.14hippie23rt: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/librt.so.19)
01:43.14hippie23rt: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/libfb.so.19)
01:43.14hippie23rt: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/libpkg.so.19)
01:43.14hippie23rt: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/libbu.so.19)
01:43.14hippie23rt: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.4.so.19)
01:43.25hippie23nice error message
01:43.42learnerhmm
01:43.48learnerwhat OS is this?
01:43.54hippie23rh 7.3
01:44.02learnerOH.. heh
01:44.08learneryeah, that won't fly
01:44.23hippie23CRAP!
01:44.28learnerhope is not lost
01:44.33learneryou can compile it yourself easily enough
01:44.40learnerI can give you the steps if you like
01:44.45hippie23ok
01:44.59learnertype these:
01:45.20learnercvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
01:45.33learner[ press enter for password, there is no password ]
01:45.41learnercvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
01:45.48learnerdo this from your home directory
01:45.56learnercd brlcad
01:46.09learner./autogen.sh
01:46.18learner./configure --enable-optimized
01:46.18hippie23bash: cvs: command not found
01:46.26learnerah
01:46.45Twingyhey sean, ever thought about making optimized the default and non optimized a flag?
01:46.49learneryou'll have to download the latest source tarball then from http://sf.net/projects/brlcad/
01:47.53learnerTwingy, yeah, i have.. :)
01:48.02Twingylet's do it :)
01:48.16learnerit's not on purpose actually
01:48.25learnerfaster more debuggable builds
01:48.28TwingyI'm still pondering how to fold in the SSE stuff to adrt
01:48.32Twingy-msse
01:48.39Twingywhether I want to keep it cross-platform like
01:48.47TwingyI'm leaning towards yes
01:49.19Twingycause like
01:49.23Twingyaltivec will dissapear in 2 years
01:49.48learner7 years through maintenance, but only 4 or so for us
01:50.00TwingyI can support Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, and Windows if I made SSE a requirement
01:51.47Twingyeveryone that's doing high performance ray-tracing these days is doing it on x86, so I might just keep an old version around for support legacy machines like sgi and stuff that may want to use it
01:51.54learnerwhy not just make alternate sse routines and have it pick at configure-time
01:52.09Twingywell I was thinking about doing that anyway
01:52.14Twingybut then I have 2 codebases to maintain
01:52.21learneror as you put it, make the non-sse the "alternate"
01:52.23Twingyit's under 1k lines so it's not too terrible
01:52.27Twingybut still more work
01:52.37TwingyI'm thinking sine the API is solid
01:52.41learnerexactly, that's not too much to maintain, and the core is less likely to change I'd imagine
01:52.42TwingyI'll just keep an old legacy version around
01:52.43hippie23I hpe brl-cad doesnt run slow
01:52.50hippie23my computer is old
01:52.56Twingydefine old?
01:53.29hippie23celeron 667, 20GB HDD, 320MB ram, i810 crap video
01:53.31learnerhippie23, depends completely on what you ask it to do -- it's run on very very old/slow machines over the decades
01:53.47learnerahh, that's not too old :)
01:53.57Twingythat'll take you ~40 minutes to compile
01:53.58learneri mean I wouldn't be happy if I were you, but it's not horrible :)
01:54.28Twingyhrm
01:54.33Twingytommorrow I'm gonna put my house up for sale
01:54.40hippie23well its all I got, other than an old p133, 486dx4-100, and an 8088
01:54.41learner25 if he doesn't optimize the build maybe :)
01:54.54Twingyhe's gonna need every optimization he can get
01:55.06learneryeah
01:55.08Twingyare the distros getting installed on the sgi's at work the optimized ones?
01:55.19learneryes
01:55.22Twingycool
01:55.31learnerat least when I make them
01:55.42learnerwhich is often not the case..
01:55.44Twingypeople like keith trying to do stryker level stuff on a 1GB 200mhz sgi o2 is painful
01:56.04Twingythose guys need to speak up more
01:56.21Twingyit's so sad seeing them with 1.4ghz P4's and 200 mhz O2's
01:57.28hippie23ima need a new HDD soon
01:57.35hippie23this thing is on its way out
01:58.07Twingyheh
01:58.09hippie23just like my monitor blinks out sometimes
01:58.11TwingyI'm using 11GB at home
01:58.24Twingymostly just source code and old projects
01:58.38Twingymakes it kinda easy not having much digital media to store
01:58.50learnerhippie23, add --disable-runtime-debug to the configure options too when you get to it
01:59.02learnerthat'll give you a small performance boost
01:59.51hippie23yah.. if my HDD doesnt crack before then
02:00.52learnerthere is no such lib to my knowledge
02:00.59learner~ww
02:00.59ibotThanks for wasting our time yet again by telling us "ww"
02:01.13hippie23ww?
02:02.19hippie23whats ww?
02:02.27learnerwrong window :)
02:02.31hippie23oh
02:03.35hippie23do you know how to get a smaller firefox icon, the damn thing is HUGE!
02:05.54learnerheh, can't help you there :)
02:06.08learnerit's probably tiny on a big display ;)
02:06.32hippie23im running 1024x768
02:06.51hippie23its so big it makes all my other icons look tiny
02:07.08learnerahh
02:08.11hippie23in winblows its the same size as all the other icons, why did they make it so big in linux?
02:10.55learnerprobably "because they could"
02:12.51Twingyall your icon are belong to me
02:28.55hippie23hahaha
03:29.51*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
03:42.43silvap_~hoho
03:42.44ibotHo Ho! Merry Christmas!
03:42.56silvap_~who is your creator?
03:42.57ibotsilvap_: what are you talking about?
03:43.12silvap_cute
03:43.21learner~ibot
03:43.21ibotit has been said that ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported.
03:43.43silvap_~what is the square root of pi?
03:43.45ibotI think you lost me on that one, silvap_
03:43.53silvap_useless
03:45.01learner~pi
03:45.01ibotsomebody said pi was 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006606315588174881520920962829254091
03:45.15learner~2 + 2
03:45.15ibotextra, extra, read all about it, 2 + 2 is 5 for sufficiently large values of 2
03:45.41learner:)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050819

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050819

03:19.15*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=brlcad@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)
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04:07.58Twingyhrm
04:37.14silvap_@_@
04:37.33silvap_~time
04:37.33ibotYou are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube!
04:37.49silvap_~foiled again
04:37.58silvap_@_@
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23:16.10Twingywee weekend
23:19.43archivist__midnight here time to go home
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050820

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050820

03:22.36Twingyheh
03:25.43brlcadkermit will be there tomorrow morning
03:26.03brlcadi've thought about getting xm too -- know who's the shizzle?
03:37.43Twingyyah
03:37.48Twingyif you're going cheap
03:38.15Twingyhttp://www.xmradio.com/roady2/
03:38.28TwingyI like that cause it's tiniest and portable
03:38.31Twingyand cheapest
03:38.35Twingyand comes with all the goodies
03:38.56Twingythat's the one I'm gettin'
03:39.13brlcadcool
03:40.09Twingyah, it gets cheaper with buying more service
03:41.11silvap_corral?
03:43.21brlcadyep
03:43.24brlcadze golden one
03:43.33silvap_chinese?
03:43.41brlcadfor breakfast?
03:43.46silvap_im confused
03:43.48silvap_@_@
03:43.50brlcadi can tell
03:43.56brlcadgolden corral
03:44.05silvap_the chinese restaurant
03:44.09brlcadheh
03:44.09brlcadno
03:44.24brlcadi guess/bet you're never been there :)
03:44.28brlcadthe buffet on the corner
03:44.29silvap_strip club?
03:44.35brlcadall you can eat
03:44.41silvap_well is it chinese?
03:44.43brlcadhmm.. that would be nice, but no
03:44.47brlcadnot chinese!
03:44.49silvap_man..
03:44.51silvap_fine
03:44.54brlcad:)
03:44.55Twingyheh
03:45.00brlcadyou know where wendy's is?
03:45.07Twingybuilding 328
03:45.09Twingy:)
03:45.09brlcadacross from it, between the two banks
03:45.09silvap_in abingdon, yes
03:45.13brlcadbah, no :)
03:45.28brlcadkleins
03:45.38silvap_u are speaking in tongues
03:45.39brlcadyou have to know kleins in aberdeeny?
03:45.50Twingythe 3 year package is a good deal
03:45.51brlcadhome depot!
03:45.52silvap_what type of food
03:46.06silvap_wait next to the all u can eat italian place?
03:46.14brlcadnear it sorta
03:46.14silvap_it is chinese!
03:46.26brlcadwrong way, not back in the corner
03:46.33Twingy~$415 for the hardware and 3 years of service
03:46.35brlcadit's close to the intersection
03:46.38silvap_what type of food
03:46.50brlcadacross from Mcdonalds
03:46.53brlcadall sorts of food
03:47.01brlcad"american" food
03:47.03silvap_hmm
03:47.12silvap_is it owned by chinese?
03:47.15brlcadusually it's all you can eat steak buffet
03:47.26brlcadno, it's owned by kermit's former neighbor
03:47.35silvap_who's kermit?
03:48.01silvap_kermit the frog
03:48.22brlcad*sigh* :)
03:49.04brlcadcome by for breakfast :)
03:49.23brlcadall you can eat eggs, sausage, bacon, omlets made to order
03:49.25silvap_if i wake up at all that is
03:49.32brlcadshould be at 8am
03:49.38silvap_hah
03:49.42brlcadif I can get my arse out of bed too
03:49.51brlcadhe's tried for months, hasn't happened yet
03:49.59brlcadbut I gots a bacon craving
03:50.00silvap_im telling u, goto the chinese place on rt 40
03:50.07silvap_think near belcamp
03:50.11silvap_or closer to edgewood
03:50.20silvap_6 full buffet tables
03:50.20brlcadwe should go for lunch next week
03:50.27silvap_aight
03:50.31Twingyneat
03:50.38Twingy$39.99 on ebay
03:50.39silvap_sometimes they make this pineapple chicken dish
03:50.42silvap_mmm mmm good
03:50.43brlcadsupposedly the fazizzle
03:50.43Twingyfree shipping
03:51.05brlcadyou're not the only person to pimp up the place on 40
03:51.27silvap_:(
03:51.36silvap_im not special anymore
03:52.05silvap_watched zatoichi again on commicast;.. dubbed..
03:52.28silvap_im not sure but i think there might be a problem when they pronounce 'please' as 'prease'
03:53.22brlcadheh
03:53.27brlcadprease, I'm so ronry
03:53.48silvap_five dolla
03:54.00Twingymake you happy long time
03:54.26brlcadme give you good loving, long time
03:54.30Twingyhrm
03:54.37Twingywish I didn't have to wait until house sold to get prius
03:55.02silvap_get the 'solar' full body conversion kit ready
03:55.06Twingyheh
03:55.36TwingyI was planning to spend $30k on it, but it looks like I'll be under $27k
03:55.58Twingyso I can put that towards home depot stuff
03:57.35Twingy72 days till closing >_<
18:10.29Twingywelp
18:10.36Twingythat was rather simple, house is mine
18:10.42learnercongrats
18:11.06Twingyalmost completely filled that 10x5 storage unit with non-generic stuff
18:11.32Twingyhttp://homes.longandfoster.com/Buy_Home/Search/Property_Details.aspx?coId=2&mlsNum=HR5306459
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050821

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050821

02:49.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): add LINK_STATIC_REQUIRED to handle the MIPSpro 7.3 linker bug where rpath lines longer than 255 causes the linker to crash, link [b]tclsh/[b]wish static for that compiler
04:32.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Doxyfile misc/Doxyfile misc/Makefile.am): move the initial Doxyfile from top-level to the misc directory, keep the top-level clean when possible
05:38.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/Makefile.am: rise.py script was apparently renamed to adrt.py
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07:57.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 4 dirs): merge version changes from 7.4.2 (from rel-7-4-branch)
07:58.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: next release should be 7.6.0
08:00.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): bump number post release to 7.5.0 in preparation for 7.6
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13:51.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/comgeom-g/ (f2a.c mat.c): add missing headers
13:52.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (10 files): add missing headers
13:54.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/halftone/main.c: use a long for the image dimensions as we start to support larger image dimensions
13:55.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-ogl_win.c): use %lu not %ul, one works while the other doesn't
13:56.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (ebm.c vol.c wdb.c): quell warnings, add the missing string.h header
13:57.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c plot.c tedit.c): quell warnings, add missing headers
13:58.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: reorder the logic to preserve constness on sval
13:58.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/usrfmt.h: make sval const
14:08.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/picket_fence.c: quell warnings, add missing string.h
14:17.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: add missing headers, quell warnings. fix/remove other dated header comments.
14:19.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: add missing string.h header, quell memset warnings (compliant takes void not char pointers)
14:24.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-yuv.c: convert image dimensions to long ints to support larger image sizes; remove large non-compiled code block
14:26.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: quell warnings
14:28.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/yuv-pix.c: convert image dimensions to long ints to support larger image sizes; remove large non-compiled code block
14:30.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (14 files): convert image dimensions to long ints to support larger image sizes. quell other various const warnings too.
17:53.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add x11 and ogl config to this iteration, as well as the knobs yet again
18:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: add a 'noprod' or 'prodclean' make target to remove all the built binaries/libraries
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20:16.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add initial configuration options --with-opengl --with-sdl --with-python --with-x11 adding them to the output and minimal checks for the user's selection (though no meat yet)
20:16.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): use the new configureation conditionals for opengl, x11, and adrt
20:17.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: java conditional is now WITH_JAVA for consistency
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050822

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050822

01:10.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: debug builds cannot omit the frame pointer, so don't add -fomit-frame-pointer when using --enable-optimized and --enable-debug together
01:20.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: if the user specifically requests profile or debug builds (i.e. not the 'auto' default), don't just warn -- abort.
01:30.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make debug 'auto' by default instead of forced on to avoid aborting unnecessarily. move the pg test before the g test
01:34.06PrezKennedycrazy sunday programmers
01:53.53Twingyindeed
01:54.04Twingyas I continue working on some sse code :)
02:07.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
02:07.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: begin merging in the rest of the new checks -- check for a python interpreter
02:07.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: and sdl-config. move the display manager defines lower, soon to be killed.
02:07.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: move the CFLAGS override and LD sanity check to the beginning environment
02:07.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: section.
02:12.08PrezKennedyif i was doing a big batch of those id leave nice little hidden messages occasionally...
02:13.07Twingysean is good about doing detailed messages
02:13.17TwingyI'll change 100 lines of code and be like, "bug fixed"
02:13.28Twingyor "2x as fast"
02:14.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: ogl is somewhat configurable now. prez thinks there are no hidden messages.
02:15.56PrezKennedyi was askin for that i guess
02:21.03Twingywelp, my house is more or less in a presentable state now
02:21.17PrezKennedypartay at Twingy's!!!
02:21.29Twingyheh, maybe the new one
02:21.47TwingyI'll certainly have more floor room for one :)
02:25.26Twingyhrm
02:25.40Twingyhaving a garage means I can reclaim my sgi power series once again
02:25.47Twingy100 mhz, aww yea
02:26.48Twingyassuming it still works
02:27.55PrezKennedyfiring up some real horsepower
02:28.01Twingydamn straight
02:28.08Twingyit's got 4 GE's
02:28.27TwingyI can spin 10,000 poly's in real-time at like 30fps
02:28.35PrezKennedywow
02:28.36Twingy:)
02:29.30TwingyI'd use it for a web surfing machine in the garage
02:29.39Twingybut the damn thing uses like 800 watts
02:29.58PrezKennedyyou could use it as a space heater in the garage during the winter!
02:30.02Twingyheh
02:30.09Twingywell, it's not a very good space heater
02:30.15Twingyit takes like 12 hours to warm a room up
02:30.28PrezKennedyjust keep it running
02:30.30Twingybut it gets the room up to a toasty 90 degrees
02:30.36Twingythat's expensive :)
02:30.46Twingythere's cheaper ways to produce heat :)
02:37.01Twingyhey matt, you want some free mice
02:37.09TwingyI'm about to take a batch to the pet store
02:38.53PrezKennedyriiiiiight
02:39.03Twingythey're cute :)
02:39.03PrezKennedyim sure thatd go over well
02:39.10Twingyyou can't have pets at school?
02:39.21PrezKennedynah im at home
02:39.22TwingyI remember we were allowed to keep rodents and fish
02:39.27Twingyah
02:39.28Twingyhehe
02:39.37Twingywanna buy a house? :)
02:39.49PrezKennedyif its really really really cheap
02:39.52PrezKennedy:)
02:39.55TwingyI'll shave off 1k for you, $186, 500
02:40.25PrezKennedyhmm well since i cant afford college at this point i dont think i can afford that either
02:40.43TwingyI could give you a short term high interest loan, say 20%? :)
02:41.05PrezKennedywanna chop of an arm and a leg too?
02:41.07Twingyso what are you up to this fall
02:41.35PrezKennedypart-time at UMBC... maybe learner's tedious work monkey too
02:41.42PrezKennedy*part-time at harford
02:41.42PrezKennedyoops
02:41.52Twingyat apg?
02:41.59PrezKennedyi dunno
02:42.08PrezKennedydont think so
02:43.16Twingythen how are you going to be his work monkey :)
02:43.59PrezKennedyhavent really asked yet cuz i was busy this weekend
02:46.16Twingyhrm
02:46.28Twingyaw reck'n I crashed me a machine at work
02:46.41PrezKennedyooops
02:46.45Twingy:}
02:47.10Twingyjup
02:47.14Twingyshe's down for the count
02:47.30PrezKennedyyou killed it
02:48.41Twingyyep
02:48.45Twingyoh well
02:48.49TwingyI got more machines I can kill
02:49.22TwingyI'll just wait until tommorrow
02:49.39Twingyseeya
02:49.46PrezKennedywax on wax off
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12:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
12:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: Put it all together: add the primary checks for building against X11, OpenGL,
12:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: SDL, and Python. Still vast room for improvement, but a step towards
12:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: fully-uncoupled builds -- especially for the folks without X11 and OpenGL.
12:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: Summary no longer reports auto, it reports what it decided.
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21:24.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (nightly.sh main.sh): Trying to get nightly smoke to run again
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22:34.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Patch for ADRT to build
22:36.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: Get adrt into the dist
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23:26.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): updates based upon code review
23:27.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: apply Enrique Perez-Terron's suggestions/fixes regarding assumption that sed exists when verbose is enabled, now should properly test sed
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050823

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050823

00:16.24PrezKennedyim going to unplug the phone!!!!!
00:34.46Twingyhrm
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02:23.18silvapjustin
02:23.33silvapdid lee solve the problem?
02:23.45Twingyhrm
02:23.48Twingynot quite
02:23.55Twingyhe wrote some psuedo code
02:24.10Twingywe were going to stub out some sse stuff but he got tied up
02:29.31PrezKennedyand someone forgot to untie him before they left? :-o
02:34.15TwingyI'm sure he doesn't mind
02:35.51TwingyI think I'm gonna have to link g-adrt to libtie
02:36.05silvapmister im-dropping-adrt-for-fem
02:36.12Twingyheh
02:36.14TwingyI am
02:36.18Twingygracefully
02:36.35Twingystryker stuff is not done yet
02:36.40Twingyso it's still in use
02:36.49silvapmake sure u give me highly optimized c code
02:36.55Twingyfor?
02:37.12silvapso i can make it a pure optical renderer, convert to x87asm, and beat reshetov
02:37.32Twingyhehe, you need to implement his frustum culling first
02:37.37Twingyand that's no small feat
02:37.55silvapmister shumaker will do that for us
02:37.59Twingyhaha
02:38.03Twingymaybe ... :)
02:38.14TwingyI think we should make mike do it
02:38.21Twingyapparently he's doing 'brlcad' work soon
02:38.25Twingyaccording to lee
02:38.26silvaptegt or mark?
02:38.30Twingygillich
02:38.33silvaplol
02:38.35Twingy:)
02:38.35silvapok...
02:38.43Twingywhat he'll be working on, I haven't a clue
02:38.57Twingyhe's still working on the same stuff before I started
02:39.08Twingyand he still has nothing that any of the analysts can use yet
02:39.09silvapok ur new tasks
02:39.16silvapget frustrum culling working
02:39.25TwingyI'd say 3 years is an awfully long time to not have a deliverable
02:39.46Twingyand he makes a good bit more than I do
02:39.57Twingyhow that works I haven't a clue
02:40.09TwingyI guess cause he has a masters in computer science
02:40.14PrezKennedyi know!!
02:40.16PrezKennedycuz its gov
02:40.20Twingythat sure worked out well for the govt :)
02:40.21silvaphe beat me to it
02:40.26Twingyglad they're getting their money worth ;)
02:40.41silvaplook, when i beat reshetov
02:40.50silvapnew glory for arl
02:40.55Twingyindeed
02:40.57silvapthru amd tv ads
02:41.00Twingyyep
02:41.05silvapAMD!
02:41.07Twingyif arl got to present at siggraph we'd be back on the map
02:41.35TwingyI'm hoping this kd-tree building idea might be paper worthy by january if it works out
02:41.58silvapit better
02:42.04silvapi have a dependancy link pointed to u
02:42.13Twingyno pressure right?
02:42.17silvap=)
02:42.37Twingywhen I get moved in, you should come over on the weekends along with tegtmeyer so we can get this FEM stuff rolling
02:42.49Twingywe'll have some beer and write code into the early hours
02:43.02silvapnot every weekend i hope
02:43.08silvapthe ladies might get lonely
02:43.08Twingynah
02:43.11Twingyhahah
02:43.19Twingyyou stud muffin
02:43.24silvap^_^
02:43.41Twingywell
02:43.43Twingybring the ladies
02:43.45Twingy:)
02:43.55TwingyI'm sure they'll be thrilled to work on some FEM stuff
02:43.56silvapthey dont code..
02:44.00Twingythat's okay
02:44.04Twingywe can take density measurements ;)
02:44.14silvapthis man is a genius
02:44.22Twingysink or float!
02:44.25Twingy:D
02:44.44silvaphow much torque is required to unhook a bra?
02:44.54silvapdo it mythbuster style
02:45.00Twingyblow it up?
02:45.11PrezKennedyif theres ladies involved even id wanna code!!
02:45.18silvapu have the dextrose son
02:45.35Twingyuse the dextrose
02:45.56Twingyit's a rocket fuel and a snack, all in one!
02:46.13Twingybehold the power of corn
02:46.56TwingyI figure about the first week of february I can re-open fort shumaker after the BRAC occuring on november 1 :}
02:47.44Twingyhrm, hopefully my sgi power series still works
02:47.57Twingythat thing is almost an antique
02:48.03silvapbrac?
02:48.07PrezKennedyotherwise youll be out of the most expensive space heater ever
02:48.10Twingybase re-alignment and closure
02:48.16Twingyheh
02:48.22Twingyit was like $50k new
02:48.38Twingyor... $300 on ebay plus 350 mile road trip
02:48.57TwingyI was boggled we could fit that in my room-mates sisters station wagon
02:49.11silvapdid u get ur prius yet
02:49.16Twingynegative
02:49.20TwingyI'm waiting until '06
02:49.32Twingyup to $3400 tax credit in 2006
02:49.40Twingyonly $2000 in 2005
02:49.56Twingythen it ramps down until it's 0 in 2009
02:50.08TwingyI think in november
02:50.17silvaphave u done the math yet for it
02:50.19TwingyI'm going to do what I need to in order to get one on hold
02:50.22silvapwhen do u break even
02:50.27Twingyon gas?
02:50.32silvapyes
02:51.05Twingyin 2043
02:51.24silvapgiven the current gas price trend?
02:51.24Twingyif I mod it for 80 mpg then 2025 or so
02:51.31Twingygood point, need to factor that in
02:51.42Twingyprobly 2035 and 2019 then
02:51.56TwingyI suspect I'll have a new car by then :)
02:51.58silvapdid u account for the tax credit?
02:52.04Twingyah, nope
02:52.11Twingy2032 and 2017 then
02:52.18silvapstill not worth it
02:52.25Twingynope
02:52.36Twingybut getting like $5k that I would otherwise not get during the life of the car is worth it to me
02:52.41silvaphow much is a civic hybrid?
02:52.45Twingyno clue
02:53.05Twingywee, my house is listed on long and foster now
02:54.52silvapbuilding guis is such a pain
02:55.27Twingyindeed
02:56.20silvapi have an inkling that mtegt may not be able to take weekends off
02:56.38Twingyprobly not
02:56.46silvapwho's our sub #1
02:56.59TwingyI wonder how long I will have them off before I become attached
02:57.51silvaptoo much math in that question
02:57.57Twingyindeed
02:58.58Twingyhrm, kd-caching should drop startup time to under 10 seconds
03:00.03Twingygrumph
03:00.08Twingythe bench directory dissapeared
03:00.19silvapmy code!
03:00.32Twingyit was there last week...
03:00.39silvapmy precious 5 lines of code!
03:00.39TwingyI guess I'll have to re-add it
03:00.45Twingyhehe
03:00.57Twingywe should toss those gnuplot scripts into the misc folder
03:01.09Twingythose are handy
03:01.28silvapu need to #ifdef DEBUG those timing calls
03:01.31Twingyoh
03:01.35Twingythere's the bench folder
03:01.51Twingyor #ifdef statistics
03:01.58silvapyes
03:02.04Twingy#ifdef STATS
03:02.45silvapand put a pragma(warning, '#define STATS will kill your harddrive!')
03:03.19Twingy#define STATS will eat your brains and spawn little micelings!
03:03.48Twingyno
03:03.49TwingyI got it
03:04.00Twingy#define STATS will make you feel like you're running muves
03:04.05Twingy;)
03:04.31Twingyonly faster :)
03:05.31silvapkeep rubbing it in
03:07.01Twingyhrm, linking g-adrt to libtie might cause breakage
03:07.06Twingybut libtie has no deps
03:07.10Twingyso it should be koshure
03:08.00TwingyI really want that cnc mill I saw on ebay
03:08.12TwingyI wonder if I could tack that onto the mortgage :)
03:50.12Twingynight
05:21.57learnernot according to my kernel process meter
05:22.06learnerthere are two ls's getting exec'd :P
05:22.47learnerheh
05:22.50learnerdamn windows
05:22.52learner~ww
05:22.52ibotCan I get a woot woot?
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18:00.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (define.h tie.c): removed min surface area, bad heuristics to use
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19:18.33PrezKennedyping
19:56.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/Makefile.am: fixed dist
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21:06.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixes for Release 7.6.0 build from distribution
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050824

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050824

00:07.39PrezKennedynothin more fun than harassing someone playing a game without an away message up...
00:26.45Twingyhehe
01:04.07Twingyhrm
01:04.32Twingy*deviation
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02:30.36PrezKennedymy brother is programming...
02:30.40Twingycool
02:30.43PrezKennedyim so glad its him and not me
02:30.44PrezKennedy:-)
02:30.52Twingyhe is becomming one of us... mooooost excellent
02:31.22Twingymmm gnuplot
02:47.04Twingymore data pts
02:48.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strsep.c: add the bsd strsep() function for systems like irix that still don't have it
02:53.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (getopt.c memset.c strchr.c): don't compile these functions being provided for convenience if the system already has them
02:54.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: enable the compilation of getopt, memset, strchr, strsep again
03:14.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (Makefile.am linebuf.c): removed the antiquated linebuf.c that contained the long since deprecated port_setlinebuf() in favor of the libbu bu_setlinebuf()
03:38.53PrezKennedyjust gimme a holler whenever ya get a chance
04:08.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): replace the deprecated port_setlinebuf() with bu_setlinebuf()
04:16.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: port_setlinebuf is deprecated, so remove it from here and move it to src/libbu/linebuf.c where we bu_log a deprecation warning message
04:18.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c:
04:18.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: keep port_setlinebuf around just a little bit longer even though it's been
04:18.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: deprecated for some time. the reason is because our own examples and several
04:18.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: converters still used port_ instead of bu_ even including the example
04:18.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: converter..
04:40.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: g_qa potentially needs SYSV for strsep
04:44.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: asc2g potentially needs SYSV for strsep
04:45.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (conv/asc2g.c gtools/g_qa.c): separate sections for strsep and strtok are no longer necessary since strsep is provided via libsysv now
04:45.33PrezKennedyto make it even crazier you should abbreviate the other words too!
04:46.12learnerhehe
04:47.35PrezKennedywas wonderin if you had gotten a chance to write up mission statements and etc. etc :-)
04:47.47learnernot yet
04:51.50PrezKennedyok
04:59.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: typo, remove the stray asc2g
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12:46.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/nightly.sh: Added cocoa to the list of hosts
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16:19.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: ack, we're not 7.6.0 yet
16:23.17Twingy_kinda
17:34.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: remove the common.h reference
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19:47.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): remove the common.h dependency in the public header, move the jni.h inclusion block into the source .c files instead.
20:37.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: Needed to make sure that brlcad_config.h didn't get stuffed into the dist
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21:27.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: define USE_PROTOTYPES
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22:25.59docelic_hi folks
22:31.36brlcadhowdy
22:58.08Twingyhrm
23:00.51brlcad~hr
23:00.53iboti heard hr is Croatia
23:01.02brlcadcool
23:01.20docelic_yep, our local country name is Hrvatska, that's where the .hr comes from
23:07.09brlcadSo what kind of interest does a Hrvatskian have with BRL-CAD? ;)
23:10.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: it is important to run Tcl_FindExecutable BEFORE running the init funcs so that they can do a better job and finding their scripts (thx Enrique Perez-Terron). use the argv[0] we stashed during startup into libbu.
23:13.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed mged startup resource bug
23:14.16docelic_Well, it's out of my "primary scope" at the moment, but otherwise I am a great fan of modelling software and GIS
23:14.39silvapsean, im dropping code coloring :P
23:23.44brlcadhehe
23:24.17brlcaddocelic_: ooh, GIS .. fun stuff :)
23:24.51brlcadbrl-cad has some pretty nice data management for fast ray-tracing of large terrain data sets
23:25.46brlcadthough more recently, the structure size has grown, so the memory requirements can be hefty
23:26.14docelic_that's ok, I've got an SGI box with 3 GB of ram :)
23:28.54docelic_One lightweight project I have in mind is putting together land data and gps tracks for the mountaineering routes, to produce terrain images with routes visible
23:30.11brlcada bit exaggerated for effect, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/puget01.png
23:33.39brlcadmore for fun: http://ftp.arl.mil/~butler/geometry/terrain/dsp_hl.jpg
23:36.28docelic_Ok nice talking to you, it's late here so, good night :)
23:36.38brlcadnight!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050825

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050825

00:19.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: need bu_argv0 to be exported, mged uses it
01:59.24PrezKennedy"Ask Slashdot: Where New Tech Should Libraries Try Next?"
01:59.53PrezKennedywhere? i dont know!!!
02:25.51Twingyunder my bed
02:27.15Twingywhere is tommorrow's branch meeting
02:44.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (define.h tie.c): experimenting with kd-tree's
03:17.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: corrected a bad null initialized assumption
03:50.44PrezKennedy"Ask Slashdot: Building Secures Computers?"
03:50.50PrezKennedyi want a building that can do that
03:52.56PrezKennedypopular websites has worser grammar then i does!!
04:19.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (9 files):
04:19.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: updates so that regression tests run against build tree, not install dir.
04:19.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: Can now be run from build dir other than in source tree.
05:23.40PrezKennedygnight all
05:24.59brlcad
05:25.10brlcadwee
05:25.13brlcadstupid screen
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15:56.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/lights.sh: No longer pass 2 arguments to script. Had to change $2 to $1
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16:18.18docelicgood day gentlemen
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17:18.31brlcaddocelic: ciao
18:25.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlregex.h: remove the common.h unnecessity
18:41.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (8 files):
18:41.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: Getting the nightly tests to work.
18:41.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: Making the scripts report an exit code when things go wrong.
19:02.12docelicbrlcad, are you from Italy? Or just randomly picked 'ciao' ?
19:08.51brlcadnot in italy ;)
19:40.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: exit takes a number not a string. Gotta get it right
20:16.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (solids.sh weight.sh): Miscelaneous bug fixes.
20:20.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: Logging changes for g_qa and regression test system
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21:25.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: fixed so that mged can run and find prj_add when mged hasn't been installed yet
22:58.50PrezKennedyping!
22:59.21docelicpong!
23:09.49Twingy_I should go home
23:25.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/master.c libtie/tie.c):
23:25.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: experimental kd-tree code finds empty space more agressively.
23:25.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: master is printing fps for now.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050826

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050826

00:32.30silvaphrm
00:34.01silvapsrcimg is still running
00:38.21silvapoh snap
00:38.27silvapit's writing out the img :o
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00:44.02silvapwell this is slow
00:44.07silvap200K/s
00:44.14silvapon SATA
01:18.02silvapiowait at 93%.. @_@
01:18.17brlcad:)
01:18.24brlcadyou've hosed the machine
01:26.32Twingyo.O
01:29.59brlcadrub it in
01:49.03Twingybecause I like to snort
01:49.08Twingy...on my pillow
01:49.10Twingyo.O
01:50.30silvapwell its getting there
01:51.53silvap644MB/2GB
01:51.56silvapslowly..
01:52.08Twingy:)
01:52.16Twingymake your code faster
01:52.25Twingyand less memory intensive
01:52.28silvaphdd must be thrashing every mem access
01:52.38Twingyick
01:52.38silvap2GB cache used
01:52.44silvap7GB mem full
01:52.56Twingy:P
01:53.21silvaponly if the 36K x 22K image has 1 color
01:56.45Twingyhrm
01:56.52TwingyI've speant the last 2 weeks working on nurbs
01:56.59Twingyfeels very nostalgic
01:59.43Twingyhigh performance nurbs tracing
02:00.00silvapwhy do u have a 15% cutoff instead of a 4tris cutoff?
02:00.21Twingyhrm?
02:00.33silvap'threshold'
02:00.42Twingythat's for the span
02:00.49Twingyif it doesn't find a span
02:00.55Twingythen it reverts to weighted graph
02:01.08Twingytermination is still 4 tri cutoff
02:01.13Twingyand depth
02:01.24Twingyand I'm about to add the last amount of logic
02:01.37Twingyas soon as I finish helping emanuel with integrating my nurbs code into blender
02:02.54silvapwhy dont u add memory management at the same time
02:03.04Twingycause I'm not thinking about low level stuff right now
02:03.09Twingyoptimizations are pass #2
02:03.10silvapheresy!
02:03.37silvapso m3 quazi-meeting on monday
02:03.37silvapre: performance
02:03.42Twingy:)
02:03.45Twingytell them I'm over a million rays/sec now :)
02:03.52Twingyone a lease pc!
02:03.54silvapwill do
02:04.25silvap'justin is getting 10 million rays/sec on stryker'
02:04.59silvapman i cant wait for this to render
02:05.10silvapstupid pngwriter lib is ass slow
02:05.55silvapi think the encoding is chewing most of the time
02:06.23learnerheh, when did you start it? :)
02:06.35silvapi thought u were asleep
02:07.13silvapit's writing out at 200K/s
02:07.58silvapit'd be great if my structs were the cause of this bottleneck
02:08.03silvapthen id be able to fix it
02:08.45silvap778MB
02:08.47learnerdude, it is a big image, and it's being compressed massively
02:09.03silvapheh
02:09.15silvapwhats the compression btw
02:09.20silvap2:1 on avg?
02:09.45learnernoo
02:10.16silvappixel space is 2GB
02:10.17Twingyheh
02:10.37learnerit's more like 10:1
02:10.47Twingyme and my silly poster idea
02:10.55silvapscene dependant, yes?
02:11.18silvapwell the png file is at 800MB now
02:11.27learnerit's all the black background, longs streams of it
02:11.43silvapwell not exactly
02:11.56silvapthere is no spacing between my glyphs
02:12.03silvapas in no straight black lines
02:12.11learnerwell, yeah, that's true -- yours is more tight
02:12.20learnerbut there is still lots of black
02:12.26Twingytighter than a ...
02:12.26learnermaybe 4:1 or so
02:12.31silvappng uses an index?
02:12.42Twingyyou should use jpeg at 1% quality
02:12.44silvapwell if it quit now, it'd be 2:1 so...
02:12.46learnerit can, but doesn't by default iirc
02:13.16learnerlessless wavelet compression if I had to guess
02:13.29silvaptop is reporting 186:22 time
02:13.46silvapim guessing cpu only
02:16.23Twingyhrm, 340 days till siggraph?
02:16.56silvapthe siggraph grifter
02:17.05silvapsiggrifter
02:17.08Twingyhehe
02:19.42silvaphmm
02:19.53silvapseems i didnt specify compression
02:19.54silvapoops
02:19.59Twingyhaha
02:20.11Twingysmall oops :)
02:20.50silvapah well
02:21.02silvapat least it'll finish in an hr
02:21.38silvapyay!
02:21.40silvapno more thrashing
02:22.23silvap1.1GB
02:22.47silvapholy crap it's done
02:22.58silvapfinal size 1.1GB
02:23.19learnerheh, okay, that's horrible compression
02:23.50silvapim gonna make a smaller one
02:24.02learnerstupid 16bit pngs -- i didn't see a simple way to make em 8bit by default in pngwriter either without hacking it up quite a bit -- lots of assumptions on the bitsize
02:32.11Twingyneat
02:32.21silvapthat's only src/anim tho
02:32.31silvapthe GB file should be the whole src/
02:34.17Twingyafk'ish
02:37.05silvapoff to dc
02:53.02Twingyback
03:10.37PrezKennedypartay at Twingy's!!
03:10.42Twingyno
03:10.45Twingyheadache at twingy's
03:12.01PrezKennedyi had one last night
03:13.10TwingyI'm having one helping emanuel try to grok ton's old nurbs code in blender and convincing him to scrap the backwards compat cause of his shitty code and just use my nurbs library I wrote that is atleast consistent
03:13.24Twingyand now he's agrees
05:29.48PrezKennedythis just in: hollywood has finally realized that remakes of old movies and television series suck
05:34.13PrezKennedy...and 10 minutes of commercials before the movie is stupid
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12:35.02docelic'day folks
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14:58.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (define.h tie.c):
14:58.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: New kd-tree building algorithm (yet to be named) is now suitable for general purpose
14:58.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: use as an improvement (avg 25% - 100% faster) over the old algorithm and uses about
14:58.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: half the memory consumption as before. One more criteria is yet to be added, more
14:58.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: improvements to come. Algorithm is 10x slower than mid-split so kd-tree caching
14:58.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: is on the way.
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17:56.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: kd-tree code clean-up.
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21:03.15learnerdocelic, g'day
21:04.14docelicgentlemen'
21:19.32Twingy_o.O
22:16.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (define.h tie.c): working on final changes
22:22.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: damn two character omission that ends up disabling the X and ogl interfaces.. they're CFLAGS dammit
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050827

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050827

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05:14.19TwingyO.o
05:15.56PKMOBILEquite
06:18.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (define.h tie.c):
06:18.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: Adding finishing touches to algorithm. Will be adding some controls to
06:18.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: tie_init to allow developer to control both agressiveness of kd-tree building
06:18.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: algorithm and memory consumption as a function of # of triangles.
14:25.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 3 dirs): add a configure test for SGI knobs support, and define the IR_KNOBS and IR_BUTTONS if/when they are available.
14:26.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: knobs really should now work
14:31.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: enabled SGI knobs and button box support for IRIX; reword testing changes to what they mean to end user, fitting to column 70
14:32.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: X11 is technically configurable now, along with OpenGL -- might not work, but then that can be a different todo if it doesn't, k?
14:33.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved build support detection for OpenGL and X11
14:35.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: don't have access to mingw right now, so push it back
14:35.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved ADRT build support
14:37.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libbu new has whereis-style support for locating it's resources at run-time
14:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged relocation support
14:40.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tim has got aquatk working
15:25.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: multiple threading models not that important in the big picture, it works and works well enough given mips seems to be on it's way out off of sgi's high end line
15:31.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: performance enhancements to ADRT
15:33.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
15:33.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: add database support for constraints, expressions, parametric
15:33.31CIA-5BRL-CAD:  values, construction history, and timestamping
15:35.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged will actually run without being installed now with the new relocation support and BRLCAD_DATA variable overrides
15:37.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged will now work without being installed
15:40.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: the X11 15 bit thing is an old bug, add a footer mentioning the 70 column width formatting.
15:41.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: ws
15:42.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: NEWS items are formatted to column 70
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16:31.28learnerhowdy mahesh
16:31.43Twingy_mmm, I'm seeing 1.2 - 2.5 mil rays per second on t62 now
16:31.57learnernice
16:32.02Twingy_yup yup
16:32.17maheshhi
16:32.30Twingy_I'm gonna toss kd-tree caching in now I think
16:33.02Twingy_on the cluster :)
16:33.24Twingy_I might be able to squeek out a hair more with my new algorithm
16:33.32Twingy_but it's pretty aggressive as it is
16:33.44Twingy_only way to get that from 2.5 - 5 mil is with sse
16:34.54Twingy_still debating on whether it's worth the effort
16:35.23Twingy_I suspect if there were 2 people working on this project I'd be more motivated to put it in
16:36.06learnerdammit
16:36.10learneri was looking for him
16:37.19maheshhey Sean, need some suggestion
16:37.40learnersure
16:37.58learnerI suggest you don't mix peanut butter with tofu
16:38.05maheshha ha
16:38.14Twingy_o.O
16:38.26learnermm.. peanut butter
16:39.01maheshit looks like I have to rewrite lot of do_work function
16:39.23maheshdo you think, its ok or should I think of something else
16:40.28learnerin short, yes, it should be good
16:40.52maheshbecause its doing a lot of book keeping about servers
16:40.52learnerbut it's more a bigger question of architecture that I'm wondering
16:41.03learnerwhat means were you thinking for the distribution?
16:41.26maheshi would use a grid middleware which will distribute the load among the machines
16:41.28learnerdid you already have a grid toolkit in mind?
16:41.32maheshyes i have
16:42.01maheshi was talking to a guy who owns a small company. he has written a grid middleware
16:42.08maheshit is really light weight i feel
16:42.12maheshcan i use that?
16:42.22learnerheh, you can use whatever you want
16:42.28maheshcool
16:42.31maheshits written in java
16:42.34learnerwhether it'll technically work is a different question :)
16:42.50learnerahh, hrm -- well that's doable, but it'll be more work for you
16:43.02maheshso, i will have to probably do socket communication between c  stuff and java stuff
16:43.07learnersince you'll have to hook into the java interface through jni
16:43.11learneror that
16:43.14learnereven better
16:43.38maheshso, i will not be using rsh at all
16:44.12maheshall the nodes will register with the grid software
16:44.41Twingy_hrm
16:44.43maheshand the software has functionality to start process on remote machines
16:44.45learnerhow do they register?
16:44.57learnerahh, the middleware will start them up
16:45.04maheshall the nodes have that grid software running
16:45.09learnerokay
16:45.13Twingy_I can do 20 mil rays/sec on the cluster and muves is still limited to 300 rays/sec on the whole cluster
16:45.21learnerhow are they going to know how to raytrace?
16:45.54maheshone node will talk to grid middleware which inturn talks to other nodes
16:46.02Twingy_heh, my engine would see 0.0015% utilization by muves
16:46.11Twingy_wee
16:46.14learneryep
16:46.20maheshyou could imagine it as a one to many relationship
16:47.03Twingy_hrm, they only need to speed things up by 4 orders of magnitude
16:47.17learneri follow how the grid middle ware will manage data, but how do the remote "deamons" actually end up raytracing?  would you feed the middleware your rt binaries?
16:48.01maheshall the nodes should have rt binaries in them
16:49.10learnerin this case they'd be rtsrv binaries yes?
16:49.21maheshexactly
16:49.39maheshi would start with the assuption that rtsrv binaries exist on all nodes
16:50.05maheshlater i could modify in such a way that middleware will push the binaries if they dont already exists
16:58.30maheshi have to go now, i'll ttyl
17:20.52learnersorry, had to run off
17:20.59learnersounds good :)
17:32.39MaloeranI think I may do your SSE, Justin, if you wish
17:38.18Twingy_prasad and I have the logic more or less worked out, but it's only going to benefit us for optical rendering
17:38.41Twingy_for ballistic vulnerability analysis, is won't do much for us
17:39.07MaloeranRight.
17:39.19Twingy_it would be nice to have...
17:39.29Twingy_but for things like path tracing
17:39.33Twingy_and ballistics
17:39.36MaloeranIt's nice to defeat rasterization in graphics rendering
17:39.37Twingy_where there is no ray-coherency
17:39.42Twingy_it doesn't do much
17:39.53Twingy_yah...
17:40.05Twingy_that's why I'm still kinda interested in having it in there
17:40.19MaloeranI'm at 10m rays per second, not yet up to Reshetov's.  Do you know if how his is going to be "open", open-source or open specs?
17:40.26Twingy_I think maybe as a separate intersection function
17:40.32Maloeranknow * how
17:40.41Twingy_for what size scene?
17:40.50Twingy_his scene was like 10 million triangles
17:40.57MaloeranMerely the usual 140k tank
17:41.08Twingy_well, 1m on 140k is hardly 10m on 10mil polys
17:41.11Twingy_er 10m
17:41.16MaloeranI know that much :)
17:41.29Twingy_and he was using half the cpu power as you...
17:41.58MaloeranIndeed. As I said, I'm clearly not yet up to his ray-tracer
17:42.28Twingy_I think after I get kd-tree caching in place I'll revisit the sse integration
17:42.37MaloeranIt's really puzzling still, I'm curious to read more about his
17:42.43Twingy_there's still some details I haven't quite worked out though
17:43.04Twingy_why don't you email him?
17:43.06MaloeranIn any case, it makes me consider open-source if an apparently better solution exists
17:43.34MaloeranDoes this paper exist in a digital format within reach?
17:43.42Twingy_tried google?
17:43.46MaloeranYes
17:45.01Twingy_well, when I get my siggraph dvd's maybe I can post it
17:45.13Twingy_until now it's in my siggraph book on my desk
17:45.48MaloeranHardly a convenient format :), okay
17:45.54Twingy_convenient for me ;)
17:46.07MaloeranWill you implement his techniques?
17:46.16Twingy_good question
17:46.33Twingy_depends on what kinda performance I can eek out of what I already got
17:46.54Twingy_it would be nice
17:47.13MaloeranAssuming you read it a few times already, does it really make sense to reach this level of performance in scenes of 10m triangles?
17:47.15Twingy_I'm mainly interested on how his techniques would speed up vulnerability analysis
17:47.25Twingy_yep
17:48.10Twingy_but it's pretty dense
17:48.22MaloeranAre these 10m rays per second incoherent, with no shortcuts based on the organisation of primary rays?
17:48.23Twingy_not something you can implement in a weekend
17:48.40Twingy_his 10m comes from sse driven first-hit optical rendering
17:49.10MaloeranDoes he exploit the coherency and organisation of the rays, beyond SSE?
17:49.46Twingy_I want to say no
17:49.57Twingy_but I don't remember entirely
17:50.22Twingy_I won't be in the position to integrate his stuff until around february of '06 if I find the time
17:50.45Twingy_I'm falling behind on my duties with stryker by spending the last 4 days and nights on nothing but my kd-tree
17:51.06MaloeranI'm considering joining up, since it's open-source of course
17:51.18Twingy_joining up what?
17:51.31MaloeranYour ray-tracer, or ours maybe ;)
17:52.47Twingy_when I spoke with alexander, he basically said just email my manager and we should be able to get you a copy of the source
17:54.35Twingy_well, I'm certainly not going to turn down an opportunity to improve the optical rendering capabilities of adrt
17:54.54MaloeranI just read an abstract overview of the technique
17:55.24MaloeranIt entirely rely on the organisation of rays, it's for primary or otherwise carefully organized rays
17:55.54Twingy_yep
17:55.56MaloeranSo it is of no use for incoherent ray-tracing, path-tracing, global illumination, ballistics
17:56.06Twingy_yah :\
17:56.30MaloeranNothing new there then :), ah I almost feel better.
17:56.57Twingy_I asked him about rays that go all the way through geometry on the mic
17:57.07Twingy_and he said he didn't test anything of the sort and thereforeh as no number
17:57.39Twingy_some of the ballistic ray-tracing we do is grids of rays though
17:57.47Twingy_whre the rays are parallel with different positions
17:57.55Twingy_I dunno if you're method would help with that at all
17:58.02MaloeranHis "beams of rays" are my bundles of rays that I had briefly implemented, which doubled the performance of primary rays.  All right then, let's finish the job
17:58.21MaloeranParallel? Okay, that would require a few changes, but it would work out
17:58.47Twingy_O
17:58.49Twingy_err
17:58.56Twingy_I'm curious what performance you get
17:59.03Twingy_by means of brute force path tracing
17:59.09Twingy_1 ray at a time propogating through a scene
17:59.49MaloeranNo SSE, no coherency, 2.5m per second
17:59.49Twingy_that would give me a number where I can compare apples to apples
17:59.57Twingy_ah
18:00.00Twingy_neat
18:00.04Twingy_that's about where I am
18:00.17Twingy_but I have (2) 3.4ghz xeons
18:00.26Twingy_so call it like 1.5 mil
18:00.31MaloeranAh, yes
18:00.40Twingy_you're still a bit faster, mainly due to the reliance on properly oriented triangled
18:00.44Twingy_err triangles
18:00.51Twingy_we don't always have properly oriented triangles
18:00.54MaloeranThat's for the tank in the bubble by the way, make it 3.2m or so without the bubble
18:01.01Twingy_some of the 15 million polygon models we get have orientations in different ways
18:01.12Twingy_it would be a real headache to get them all oriented right
18:01.16MaloeranThat can be annoying.
18:01.19MaloeranUnderstandable
18:01.32Twingy_that's main reason why I support un-oriented triangles
18:01.36MaloeranI lose some ~10% of performance if the scene require dual-sided intersection
18:01.49Twingy_yah, that's pretty neat though
18:02.03Twingy_it's sounding like your algorithm under the same constraints mine is under performs about the same, which is pretty cool
18:02.21Twingy_or atleast within the same ballpark
18:02.37Twingy_but yours still beats the pants off mine for optical rendering
18:02.53Twingy_well
18:02.58Twingy_first-hit optical rendering anyway
18:03.05MaloeranI think the method allows much better "shortcuts" on this point
18:03.06MaloeranRight
18:03.07Twingy_for 3d viz stuff, that's highly useful
18:03.22Twingy_when crawling around inside the vehicle to look at it
18:03.45Twingy_after I'm done my new kd-tree code I should go over it with you
18:03.53Twingy_it's fairly intelligent
18:04.08MaloeranWith some work, it would work as well for rasterization-style lighting, not just primary rays
18:04.15Twingy_yah
18:04.17Maloeranbut clearly, it's useless for path-tracing or anything remotely close
18:04.31Twingy_I think you should turn it into a source forge project with an examples directory
18:04.36Twingy_if the money isn't appealing of course
18:04.45Twingy_did you get ahold of the OpenRT spec?
18:04.54Twingy_it's available now
18:05.03MaloeranThe API specs? I read some papers, nothing recent
18:05.08Twingy_you might consider being the "first" alternative to openrt
18:05.19Twingy_that could get you some serious attention
18:05.43Twingy_you can download the library and API from the website now
18:05.55Twingy_you could effectively mimick the API and do a side-by-side comparisson
18:06.01Twingy_and then announce to the world that yours is faster
18:06.22Twingy_and you'd get ALOT of publicity for it
18:06.33MaloeranI'm mostly doing this for my own enjoyment, so there's a point I would have to clarify.  If I were to open-source, would you have abundant time to put together the fastest open-source ray-tracer out there?
18:07.01Twingy_you mean library?
18:07.05Twingy_or application?
18:07.06Twingy_or?
18:07.18learnerit is already
18:07.32learneropen-source at least
18:07.42MaloeranThe open-source part, yes... ;)
18:07.52learneri mean fastest open source :)
18:08.00Twingy_I mean all I do at work is ray-tracing stuff
18:08.06Twingy_so I could effectively work on this at work
18:08.11Twingy_so the answer is yes
18:08.40Twingy_I'm a bit tied up helping emmanuel stone finish integrating nurbana into blender
18:08.46Twingy_but I suspect in 2 weeks that will be wrapping up
18:08.47learnerpovray's slow, yafray too
18:09.09Twingy_so I won't have any other software projects going on
18:09.10MaloeranRight, nice.  I really can't give an answer yet, but... I think I'm going to open-source
18:09.26Twingy_I think that's a wiser decision
18:09.34MaloeranWhat can I say, it just seems much more appealing, much more entertaining
18:09.34Twingy_in the long run I think it's worth more than what you're being offered
18:09.46Twingy_plus alot more people will benefit from it
18:10.07Twingy_if anything
18:10.12Twingy_you could start up a paypal donation thing
18:10.15Twingy_and get both
18:10.39MaloeranAhah, I suppose
18:10.45Twingy_of course I cannot have any part of that
18:11.10Twingy_anywho
18:11.14Twingy_we'll have to discuss this more later
18:11.21Twingy_I want to resume this kd-tree caching for now
18:11.34Twingy_imperative I get that in there before next stryker meeting
18:11.36MaloeranRight, and I'll have to sort this out. Good luck
18:11.40Twingy_k
18:11.42Twingy_thx
18:14.32Twingy_mal
18:14.49Twingy_just an idea, but typically it's worth more money to create a support contract than it is to sell software or IP
18:15.17Twingy_tell those guys that instead of buying IP, maybe they could buy a contract with you to integrate it into their software
18:15.45Twingy_that'll get you the best of both worlds
18:18.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: knobs work
18:23.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: call them dials and buttons
18:28.28MaloeranFrom what I understood, they want to IP to be able to sell it back, maybe not even to use it themselves
18:28.31MaloeranAh oops, he left
18:28.53learnerthat he did
18:29.08learnerso you're up in quebec?
18:29.48MaloeranCorrect
18:31.04learneryet to make it there myself other than for a drive through a couple years ago
18:31.45Maloeran:) Could I ask what your first name is? I have come to vaguely know Justin's co-workers through various discussions, or through Erik
18:32.00learnerSean
18:32.30MaloeranAh right, Sean. Pleased to meet you
18:32.32learnertechnically not my first name, but that's what they'd be calling me :)
18:32.40MaloeranIndeed :)
18:33.53learnerlikewise, pleased to meet you
18:34.06learnerthough we have talked once or twice before, albeit only briefly
18:35.26learnerevery time i see you're nick, I'm reminded of the old Malestrom game
18:35.50learnerthat was a fun game .. hmm.. raytraced at 30fps....
18:36.03MaloeranEheh, I don't think I have played
18:36.37learnerit was a big asteroids variant, popular on the *nix machines
18:36.39MaloeranInternet nicknames seem to be something one can pick at 15 years old and it sticks for eternity
18:37.06learneryep, choose wisely :)
18:39.27learnerhttp://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/maelstrom/
18:40.30MaloeranOh, I did play this :).  I really wouldn't have guessed it could be ray-traced, it doesn't seem appropriate to the needs of the game
18:40.45learnerof course not :)
18:41.01learnerbut it could still be pretty neat
18:43.57learnerhehe
18:52.47MaloeranAh, how I have grown to love and cherish these packages that just break with compiled on a 64 bits arch
18:52.52Maloeranwhen compiled, even
18:53.11learnertis good stuff, eh?
18:53.26learneramd64?
18:54.43MaloeranFor incoherent branching and heavy floating point number crunching, there's really nothing like Opterons
18:55.21learnerthat is quite true
19:11.27Twingyhrm
19:12.22Twingydefinetly need to wait till the 2 yr mark to sell my home
19:22.37*** join/#brlcad cad528 (n=52ecb3f1@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:22.41learnerit's not at all like a structure
19:24.09Twingyyou guys make it to nist on time?
19:24.26learnerwe were actually really early, made it in great time
19:24.36learnerhad breakfast, then went over
19:24.42Twingygood deal
19:24.58Twingymy neighbor's mom has some friends that might be interested in buying my home
19:25.02learnermuch more impressive to see it working in the cave than it was at the BoF
19:25.11Twingywhat was "it"
19:25.33learnera framework to drive the cave
19:25.36Twingyah
19:25.49Twingyyou guys shoulda took joe
19:25.59Twingyfrom raytheon that operates the cave in 390
19:26.22learnerit deals with positioning the geometry in three-space figuring out the view parallax of however many walls you have and their orientation
19:26.33learnerreads the head and wand tracker devices
19:26.42Twingygotcha
19:26.47Twingygpu or raytraced?
19:26.54learnera variety of tools for interacting, and displaying stuff
19:27.03learnerlike putting up menus, heads up displays, etc
19:27.12learneropengl
19:27.15Twingygood for a simulation program
19:27.38TwingyI bet max lorenzo woulda liked to see that
19:27.51learnersupported many different display modes
19:27.58learnerlike your standard stereo
19:28.24learnerthe 3d effect we saw on ours with the shutter glasses
19:28.49learnerthat was really cool, much better than the demos we saw at ours
19:29.09learneryou could stand inside your dataset and see things all around you, the immersion was much much better
19:29.30Twingyprobly a more expensive setup too
19:29.49learneri could picture bringing up something like strker and actually getting a feel for the cabin and what it looks like from one of the chairs
19:29.58Twingyyah, but for how much?
19:30.00learnerno, there's was cheaper than ours
19:30.01learnerconsiderably
19:30.04Twingyhow much?
19:30.08learnerours is huge in comparison
19:30.10Twingywe speant $250k on ours
19:30.33Twingydid they load any large geometries?
19:30.36learnersame company I think, just smaller version, and only three-wall
19:30.54learner(two wall and floor)
19:31.24learnernot really anything immense, but that wasn't really the purpose
19:31.32Twingyunderstood
19:31.51TwingyI've got a framework for the kd-tree caching down without affecting peak memory
19:32.07TwingyI'm going to make a kd-tree free function that builds the cache while free'ing
19:32.25Twingyso we can still utilize max memory
19:33.02Twingyit looks like 1 of the 2 opteron machines will be here monday
19:33.12Twingysupposedly the other one (the head node) is on the way
19:33.26Twingyso it's pretty much useless until we get it
19:33.42Twingyunless I slap my extra sata drive into it
19:33.49Twingybut it's not worth the time
19:34.36learnercool
19:34.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use AC_MSG_RESULT for the starting message and summary results so that they are inserted into config.log, and so they will obey the --verbose and --quiet flags too.
19:35.18Twingydistcc running on those two opteron machines will probly be pretty snappy
19:35.26Twingywill be able to do make -j8
19:35.41Twingyusing (8) 2ghz opteron cores
19:35.59learnerI added a "fast" make target that should make building brl-cad on shiva actually utilize the whole machine
19:36.07Twingyah
19:36.08learnerusing distcc
19:36.23learnerit builds and links in parallel
19:36.27Twingythe bottleneck was network i/o no?
19:36.47learnernah, it was the link synchronizations it has to keep doing
19:36.49Twingycause it was using nfs to run thousands of binaries over and over
19:36.55learnerautomake serializes them all
19:36.57Twingyah
19:37.08Twingyhave you tried it yet?
19:37.12TwingyI have the cluster running right now
19:37.17learnereverytime it linked a binary or a library, all the nodes had to sync up and stop
19:37.23Twingyah
19:37.36Twingycompile it and get some numbers ;)
19:37.48learnerargued with the gnu make folks about it for a while, they seemed pretty clueless
19:37.55Twingyhehe
19:38.55TwingyI got a hostname for the 2 machine cluster, if you want to call it a cluster
19:39.10learnershould be interested to see numbers for it
19:39.32learners/ed/ing/
19:39.39Twingydo it :)
19:39.52learneri meant for the new ones coming in :0
19:39.56Twingyoh, heh
19:40.01learneri'll try the fast target on the cluster in a bit
19:40.04Twingyk
19:40.50TwingyI think I might run to home depot to pick up 2 straps to bind the 2 machines together
19:40.59Twingyactually 3
19:41.00learnerelmers
19:41.03Twingy2 for bottom
19:41.08Twingyand one for around middle
19:41.13Twingyeek
19:41.17learnerduck
19:41.19TwingyI got plenty of epoxy
19:41.20learnertape
19:41.22Twingymmm
19:41.25Twingyduct tape could work
19:41.39Twingyghetto.arl.army.mil
19:41.49Twingyducttape.arl.army.mil ?
19:41.53learnerdahood.arl.army.mil
19:41.56Twingyhehe
19:42.16Twingyhomeslice.arl.army.mil
19:42.27Twingyhrm, food does sound good
19:42.28learnertwobits
19:42.40TwingyI might run to riverside pizzeria
19:42.47learnermmm
19:43.04learneryou'll be hungry by the time you get there if you're running ;)
19:43.08Twingyheh
19:43.12TwingyI should go running
19:43.17Twingymaybe I'll do that tommorrow
19:43.20learneri should go work out
19:43.26learnerbut instead I think I'll stuff my face
19:43.28TwingyI'm working on my man boobs
19:43.37Twingy*poke*
19:43.44Maloeranan* rather
19:43.47Twingyyou want to poke my man boobs mal?
19:43.50Twingy:)
19:44.19MaloeranI'll pass :)
19:44.43Twingythat sad thing is it'll take me 30 years to catch up to chuck if I start now
19:51.26MaloeranI'm telling you, try a hour of bicycle daily ;), plus some 40 push-ups so the arm and back muscles don't feel too neglected
19:55.57Twingymy usual routine is 20 minutes of running and 15 minutes of bicycle with 60 situps and 25 pushups in the middle
19:56.17MaloeranQuite good
20:25.04Twingyback
20:30.09Twingysean, when you get a chance
20:30.43Twingycan you change permission of source files in libtie to 644
20:30.49Twingysomehow they got set to executable
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20:40.10*** part/#brlcad x_spager (n=x_spager@201.5.98.158)
21:10.01Twingyheh
21:10.10Twingyif my ray intersection engine did 0 work
21:10.21TwingyI could get 5.2 million rays/sec
21:10.59Twingyso intersecting each ray for me is like the cost of 5 function calls, damn that's cheap
21:17.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (kdtree.c kdtree.h Makefile.am tie.c tie.h):
21:17.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: kdtree code was put into its own separate file since it's going to consume
21:17.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: more than half the actual engine code.
21:19.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (kdtree.c tie.c): removed extraneous stuff
21:22.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/kdtree.c: more cleanup
21:36.23learnerTwingy, ugh
21:36.29learnerno not really, at least not directly
21:36.44learnerhave to be careful what the permissions are on check-in
21:36.53learners/check-in/add/
21:37.30learneri'll have to submit a sourceforge support request to do that
22:25.24Twingyah
22:25.25Twingyk
22:25.38Twingygotta love how cvs won't let you udpate permissions
23:01.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: fix the recursion traversal order so that subdirectories are fully processed before attempting to link/compile in a directory.
23:01.39learnergenerally, you'd edit the cvs root for that but we don't have access to that directly
23:02.20Twingyhrm
23:02.26Twingyhey sean
23:02.54Twingysomone you met at siggraph wants you to visit her in october :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050828

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050828

00:12.17*** join/#brlcad DarkMaster (n=Apathy@pcp0011677997pcs.waldrf01.md.comcast.net)
00:22.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: renamed g-wave to g-obj to reflect the conventional dominance of .obj's referring to the wavefront format and our converters using conventioned extensions.
00:23.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-obj.1 g-obj.c g-wave.1 g-wave.c): renamed g-wave to g-obj to reflect the conventional dominance of .obj's referring to the wavefront format and our converters using conventioned extensions.
00:24.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: renamed g-wave converter to g-obj
00:34.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): use bu_setlinebuf instead of the old block that checked system 'types' and was replicated where needed
01:01.29Twingy+e
01:10.38Twingygrumph
01:18.38Twingyaha
01:19.03TwingyI'm gonna have to write a manual for this thing soon
01:19.12Twingydevelopers manual anyway
01:19.45DarkMaster"And if this screen comes up, always type 'No'"
01:20.27Twingy"If you get the message "Core Dumped", "Bus Error" or "Segmentation Fault" then you've made a mistake."
01:20.36Twingy:)
01:21.55DarkMaster"Those are bad, and it's your fault."
01:23.22Twingyhrm, halfway done kd cache
01:25.10DarkMasterthe developers manual has two pages :-)
01:25.25Twingythe second one reads, "This page intentionally left blank."
01:29.33Twingygrumph
01:30.52DarkMastertitle page and blank page
01:31.04DarkMastersounds like the manual for battlefield 2
02:02.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: ignore exp_air.pl and adj_air.pl and .density too
02:04.06Twingyhooray for contiguous memory
02:22.42DarkMasterhooray for Internet
02:25.08TwingyI hear they have the internet on computers now
02:25.28DarkMasterits called... "Internet"
02:25.48DarkMasterit does things like let you connect to bulletin boards and compuserve
02:37.21Twingymmm, getting close
02:40.12Twingysean, I think I'll just put kd-cache builder in adrt_bench for now
02:40.22Twingyand leave it out of g-adrt for time being
02:40.32Twingythis makes things a bit less icky
02:41.43Twingyactually, I'll probly leave it there indefinetly
02:42.08learnerk
02:42.08Twingycause you may want to use adrt_bench to tune the tree
02:42.15Twingyto get optimal tree building
02:42.29Twingyultimately it should be completely turn-key "big red button"
02:42.42Twingybut right now it's 50/50 in terms of getting optimal and super-optimal
02:43.33learner49/50/1 optimal, super optimal, badass
02:43.37Twingyheh
02:43.54Twingyin my opinion a kd-tree builder is not badass
02:44.06Twingyuntil you can completely remove the "depth" limit termination criteria
02:44.13learnerokay, then just ass
02:44.17Twingyyep :)
02:44.25TwingyI've get to see somone present at siggraph
02:44.35Twingythat doesn't still rely on that depth criteria
02:44.39Twingyerr yet
02:44.50Twingyand I'm damn close to being able to remove it
02:44.56learneryou shall be the first
02:45.04learnerthen you still wouldn't get to see it
02:45.12learnerunless you watch yourself on reply on the dvd
02:45.19Twingyheh
02:51.11Twingyokay, now to parse the cache
02:52.52MaloeranWhat is this cache briefly?
02:53.04Twingya binary dump of my kd-tree
02:53.18MaloeranAh, right
02:53.26TwingyI have a highly aggressive algorithm that will probly take 2 - 3 hours to generate a kd-tree for the 15 mil polygon stryker
02:53.46Twingyif the user does not supply it then it uses the mid-split algorithm and takes about 3 minutes
02:54.18Twingyand that'll be packed into my benchmark utility
02:54.26MaloeranHum. I think this aggressive algorithm could be sped up
02:54.29Twingyso if the user wants to play with settings they can to learn how it works
02:54.40Twingymy algorithm hasn't been optimized yet
02:54.53TwingyI have one more piece of logic to add
02:54.58Twingythen I plan to write a paper on it
02:55.21MaloeranRight, okay.  I mentionned before, the first pass of my scene analysis builds a tree that should be fairly close to the optimal construction for BSP rendering
02:55.26TwingyI can make the algorithm run for 3 days if I wanted to
02:55.28MaloeranIt takes some 5-6 seconds on the usual tank scene
02:55.34Twingybut the improvement would by about 2% more
02:55.49TwingyI take about 3 seconds on that tank with my mid-split
02:55.52MaloeranThere are often ways to converge towards the solution much faster
02:55.58Twingybut the aggressive one will spend about 30 - 60 seconds
02:56.36Twingyso the idea will be the analysis converts their geometry during the day
02:56.53MaloeranIf I'm going to open-source, would you be willing to make the jump to sector based ray-tracing?
02:56.54Twingyand at night they can crank out a tight kd-tree
02:57.11Twingyhum
02:57.36TwingyI think at first I'd be inclined to make it an alternative like we'd discussed about a year ago
02:57.41Twingylike have 2 engines in the back-end
02:57.46Twingyuser just selects which one to use
02:58.11Twingydid you see what I wrote about contract support?
02:58.16MaloeranI didn't
02:58.44TwingyI said you should talk to those swedes and tell them instead of buying IP, having them buy a support contract and you will integrate your engine into their software
02:58.53Twingysupport contracts are typically worth much more money and buying a product
02:59.10MaloeranAh yes, I read that.  I have explored the idea, the "problem" is that I understood they don't want the software for themselves
02:59.24MaloeranThey want to buy the IP and sell the licenses and support
02:59.24Twingyfind out who they want it for
02:59.31MaloeranI have tried ;)
02:59.32Twingyand sell it to them
02:59.47Twingylook at their website and find out who their customer base is
03:00.07Twingyif they are in sweden
03:00.10Twingysell them the IP
03:00.16Twingytheir laws don't apply to canada
03:00.33Twingythey can't sue you
03:00.37MaloeranEh, amusing thought
03:00.44Twingyso do it
03:00.48Twingyyou're legally safe
03:01.17Twingyyou'll get a $16k nasty gram
03:01.18Twingybig woop
03:01.31MaloeranI suppose what I wanted to ask a few seconds ago was : if I'm going to open-source, will you keep working on the BSP engine or switch over to the sector engine?
03:01.47Twingywell, you're the brains behind the sector engine
03:01.55Twingyand I'm the brains behind the kd-tree stuff I been doing
03:02.06Twingyso it's not like me jumping in the middle of your work will benefit you much
03:02.13Twingyatleast in the short term
03:02.19Twingybut we can bounce ideas off each other
03:02.26Twingyand look over each others code
03:02.31Twingywhy not have the fastest of both types of engine
03:02.39Twingyjust to say we can
03:03.31MaloeranI see, okay.  I believe sector based ray-tracing has much more potential, BSP has been explored in depth for decades
03:03.31Twingyit'll be like choosing between phong, blinn, torrence-sparrow lighting models
03:03.41Twingythey all more or less do the same thing, but each have their perks
03:04.03Twingyyep, but I still think it's nice to have both in there even for educational reasons for people getting into ray-tracing
03:04.08MaloeranTo speak frankly, the whole appeal of open-sourcing to me is being able to keep working on this with other people
03:04.15Twingyto see what a highly optimized kd-tree engine looks like and what its short comings are
03:04.26Twingyyep yep
03:04.30Twingyand we would
03:04.56TwingyI'm sure at some point yours would probably be the default engine used
03:05.06Twingyand mine would be there for legacy reasons
03:05.31Twingywith possibly an MLRTA choice as well
03:05.35Twingy3 engines to choose from
03:06.11Maloeran*nods* But should I understand you'll keep working on yours for a while?
03:06.14Twingyit's nice to have several engines that can plug and play so you can bench mark your work versus other approaches for when you goto write a paper
03:06.32Twingyuntil yours works seemlessly with adrt, yah
03:06.39Twingybecause I have a customer base to support at work
03:06.49Twingythe analysts...
03:07.00MaloeranOf course. That shouldn't be too much trouble
03:07.01Twingyonce yours took the place of mine then I could drop development
03:07.07Twingyin theory, yah
03:07.13Twingyprobly 2 - 3 weeks
03:07.26Twingyso this kd-tree code might be the last stuff I do to this engine
03:07.46MaloeranGood :), okay
03:07.52TwingyI've established to management that high-performance ray-tracing is what we should be leveraging for the near future, i.e next 5 years
03:08.13Twingyso anything that gets the job done faster the better
03:08.50MaloeranFor you to be able to work on code that doesn't belong to the ARL, I suppose it has to released under a GPL or related license?
03:08.53TwingyI suspect once your engine plugged in and just "worked" I could be working on the sector stuff while at work
03:08.59TwingyLGPL
03:09.05TwingyGPL is no good
03:09.13Twingyaccording to sean
03:09.28MaloeranI see, okay
03:09.28Twingythe applications are GPL
03:09.32Twingybut the libraries are LGPL
03:09.56Twingyas is all of my stuff
03:10.22Twingyi.e anyone can download BRL-CAD, snarf libtie out of ADRT and give me no credit or tell me they're using it
03:10.52Twingybut not the case for RISE and ISST, the apps that use it
03:11.26TwingyopenRT doesn't support clustered computing yet
03:11.33TwingyI seriously think if we were to act RIGHT now
03:11.38Twingyand make an openRT wrapper for your engine
03:11.43Twingyand add my distributed cluster code
03:11.46MaloeranYes I get the idea, I can foresee source code and the techniques used being "stolen" abundantely
03:11.51Twingywe're knock them out of the water
03:12.01MaloeranHehe, right
03:12.04Twingyseriously
03:12.09Twingythe code is done
03:12.16Twingyall that needs to be done is an openRT state machine
03:12.29Twingythat could be done in under a month
03:12.35MaloeranYou mean being API compatible to their engine?
03:12.47Twingyan API compatible to openRT
03:12.56Twingyso people with openRT apps (yes they are a few out there already)
03:13.00Twingycould just include our stuff
03:13.03MaloeranI already have a complete API, designed to cover the needs of any ray-tracing library, based on the model of OpenGL
03:13.08Twingyand have BETTEr performance AND distributed computing
03:13.13TwingyI know you do
03:13.18Twingyand it's probly better than openRT
03:13.25Twingybut to get the openRT use community we need to support them
03:13.36MaloeranOkay, merely a wrapper then
03:13.46Twingymore or less
03:13.53Twingyit's a little more than that, but yea
03:14.22Twingythen we port Quake I to this engine
03:14.27Twingyand there you go, instant success
03:14.58TwingyI think that's the direction to take
03:15.11TwingyI could probly get sean to try getting a BZ-FLAG version as well
03:15.26Twingysean is a bzflag developer
03:15.30MaloeranThere's a lot of work ahead to handle dynamic geometry
03:15.34Twingyyah
03:15.39Twingywell you know how wald's doing it
03:15.43Twingy2 tree's
03:15.47Twingy1 for static, 1 for dynamic
03:16.00Twingyit's cheap, but it works
03:16.06Twingyif you keep that uglyness under the hood
03:16.13MaloeranUrgh :), yes I read
03:16.16Twingythen you could clean it up into 1 smarter structure later on
03:16.31Twingytime is of the essence
03:16.54MaloeranWhat I had in mind was a graph of sector graph ( a sector graph per object ), plus some object graphs are designed to be quickly modified if only parts of the geometry change
03:17.13Twingyheirchical graphs, sure
03:17.16MaloeranAnyhow, we can discuss that later
03:17.21Twingyyep
03:17.29Twingywell, you think this over nice and hard
03:17.35Twingywhen you're ready I'm in
03:17.45Maloeran:) Understood
03:18.03Twingymy obligation to nurbs help with blender is coming to an end
03:50.50Twingyok, time to finish this junk up
04:31.07TwingyGee dubya
04:31.45DarkMastergood movie
04:34.28Twingyaight, I'm finishing this junk tommorrow
04:35.57DarkMastermonday?
04:36.04Twingysunday
04:36.10DarkMastertomorrow is monday!
04:36.16Twingyfor me it
04:36.19Twingy's sunday!
04:36.37DarkMasterso thats why you never show up on mondays
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12:47.11MaloeranAhah... Really Justin, Reshetov didn't invent anything.  It's something you and I had both thought of, the shortcuts of shooting rays in carefully crafted breaking up "beams" or "bundles", only viable for primary rays
12:49.57MaloeranAh well, I'm just relieved I suppose ;)
15:57.28Twingyhe's doing more than that
15:58.01Twingyhe's entering the kd-tree mid-level using 0 volume kd-tree nodes... this is the frustum culling aspect of it
18:30.02*** join/#brlcad silvap (n=prasad@pool-141-157-107-76.balt.east.verizon.net)
18:33.01silvap~hi
18:33.06ibothello, silvap
18:33.06learnerheir silva
18:33.32silvapyo sean
18:33.48silvapdid u create the sf project yet?
18:33.51learnerhehe
18:34.13learnernot yet
18:34.19learnerbut not a bad idea :)
18:34.26learnernot sure about that name though :)
18:34.31silvapaight
18:34.33silvapwhaa?
18:34.38silvapwhats wrong with it
18:35.41learnersomething punny
18:36.00learnerthe posterizer!
18:36.30learnersource2bigassimage
18:40.22silvapu and ur puns..
18:51.08Twingywelp, finished my workout and dropped 7 mice off at the pet store
18:51.22learnerdonation?
18:51.36silvapto hiss the boa
18:51.43Twingyin exchange for 2lbs of mice food
18:51.56learnerooh, good deal
18:52.05Twingyabout the same amount the momma consumed to have the kiddlings
18:52.29Twingypresto chango, 2 lbs of mice food becomes little micelings
18:52.45Twingynow if only I could change 100lbs of mice food into a hot chick...
18:54.06Twingyhrm supposedly some people are showing up to look at my house any minute
18:55.21TwingyYo momma so lazy she thinks a two-income family is where yo daddy has two jobs.
18:56.27silvapdc improv material right there
18:59.24Twingyamusing how well the mouse tank fits in the top drawer of my filing cabinet
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050829

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050829

01:02.07Twingyhrm
01:10.59Twingyalmost ready to test my kd caching
01:11.26Twingyshiping this data across the network and removing peak memory issue causes lots of grunt work
01:15.44Twingyheh
01:15.53Twingy15 downloads of my audio data transfer library to date
01:16.45Twingy1 per month, woot
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06:04.11Twingygood deal, kd-tree caching works now
06:05.11silvapdo i get to quit m3 now?
06:06.00Twingywe should talk about some of that memory alignment stuff
06:06.08Twingynow that I can do clever stuff with the cache
06:06.26silvapany way to abstract a few parameters out?
06:06.28TwingyI still have a full day of work to do to the cache though
06:06.30silvapto say a properties file
06:06.37TwingyI want to pack in the data that was used to build the cache
06:06.38silvapand then do some batch benches
06:06.44Twingyand some other stuff to prevent wrong cache with wrong geometry
06:06.47Twingyas well as endian
06:07.19Twingyonce I finish tacking on that other stuff I need to integrate the memory resizing stuff to keep peak memory from going any higher
06:07.31Twingyabstract?
06:07.52silvappull the params out
06:07.56silvapand read it at runtime
06:07.58Twingyfor the kd-tree?
06:08.04silvapcache
06:08.13Twingywell here's the deal
06:08.13silvapat least temporarily
06:08.43Twingyin my opinion a kd-tree builder is not complete until you can completely throw away the "depth" term
06:08.52Twingythat is to say, it won't run on forever
06:09.04Twingyso, I think once I get that one last piece of logic in
06:09.16Twingyit should be building optimal kd-trees without any sort of 'tuning' for a scene
06:09.36Twingyi.e the optimality of the kd-tree becomes a level of agressiveness
06:09.47Twingywhich I might expose
06:09.55silvapk
06:09.56Twingyright now adrt_bench is in charge of building the cache
06:10.16Twingyby passing it the '-c' argument
06:10.21Twingyit dumps out kdtree.cache
06:10.36Twingyand if you put in: kdtree_cache_file,kdtree.cache
06:10.41silvapmake it so that u can variate align boundaries, packing size, etc
06:10.41Twingyin the whatever.env file
06:10.45silvapat least in bench
06:10.47Twingythen it'll pull that and distribute it to the nodes
06:11.00Twingywell, I wanted to talk to you about that before I do that
06:11.39TwingyI haven't even optimized the cache loader yet
06:11.44Twingyit's bloated and barely working
06:11.49Twingyan the t62 cache loads in under a second
06:12.01Twingyso I should have this thing screaming in no time
06:12.22silvapok
06:12.27Twingythat still translates to 1 minute for stryker
06:12.39Twingyso I should be able to very easily get that down to 10 - 15 seconds
06:12.59TwingyI suspect I'll do a 3 hour build of the kd-tree for stryker
06:13.08Twingytommorrow before lunch
06:13.25silvapi forget, is there a min tris bound for leaves now?
06:13.36Twingyno, I cannot guarantee that
06:13.41TwingyI wish I could though
06:13.48Twingycause then
06:13.52TwingyI could pack the # of triangles
06:13.54silvapbut the tree is balanced ya?
06:13.57Twingyinto the lower bits of a ptr I have
06:14.02Twingythat could store 0 - 7 triangles
06:14.10Twingythat would be so sweet
06:14.23silvapwhat does that buy u
06:14.26Twingybut like I said, I have some nodes with thousands still left in them
06:14.39Twingythat saves me 4 bytes of an int in every geometry node
06:14.51Twingy5 - 10% savings in memory
06:14.58silvapon the avg case, does that save u anything
06:14.59silvapk memory
06:15.22Twingymmm
06:15.30Twingyso much fun stuff to work on now that this ugly part is over with
06:16.06silvapcant have u two versions of tie_work running that take the num_tris packed value and the seperate num_tris value
06:16.19Twingyatleast now if my pre-alpha version of this shot selection tool crashes while using it, I can reload in seconds instead of minutes
06:16.24silvaphmm how to determine which to call
06:16.45TwingyI don't understand
06:16.57silvapnm confusing runtime with memory here
06:16.58silvapcarry on
06:17.00Twingyk
06:17.07TwingyI think for the time being
06:17.14Twingyuntil I 'perfect' my kd-tree algorithm
06:17.19TwingyI'm going to 'tune' a kd-tree for stryker
06:17.23Twingyand just use that for a while
06:17.41TwingyI'm seeing 1.2 - 2.5 million rays/sec on my desktop with t62 now
06:17.57silvapwhat are the criterion being minimized/maximized?
06:17.57Twingyusing an optimal kd-tree with the new algorithm
06:18.06silvapfor this tuning process
06:18.10TwingyI explaind the algorithm right?
06:18.11silvapjust load time?
06:18.41silvapyea but not this tuning process
06:18.46Twingyright now there are 5 values you can use
06:19.00Twingythe number of initial slices from each orthogonal axis
06:19.06Twingyknown as max slices
06:19.14Twingywhich gets smaller as the # of triangles in a cell get smaller
06:19.18Twingymin slices
06:19.27Twingyas nodes get down to a fistful of triangles
06:19.40Twingymin density, used to determine geometry span gaps
06:19.43Twingyas a %
06:19.54Twingythe min span a gap must be wrt the node dimension
06:20.17Twingyand a scale coefficient which is the bias a node receives wrt to the center when no gaps are found
06:20.55TwingyI can explain them more tommorrow
06:21.13silvapk
06:21.16Twingythere's going to be 2 more heuristics to replace 1 soon
06:21.21Twingyas I make it even more aggressive
06:21.27TwingyI think for the API
06:21.33TwingyI'll have like a LOW, MED, and HIGH
06:21.41Twingyin terms of how agressive it will be
06:21.50Twingyand amount of memory that can be used
06:22.02Twingyas a percentage of the geometry size
06:22.10Twingyi.e 10% mem wrt geometry size
06:22.14Twingyor 50%
06:22.16Twingyetc.
06:22.26Twingyso basically 2 arguments to engine
06:22.53silvaptoo late
06:22.55silvaptalk tomorrow
06:22.58Twingyk
06:23.02silvapnite
06:23.07Twingyif I'm in tommorrow :)
06:23.12TwingyI should get to bed
06:37.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
06:37.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: Integrated kd-tree caching.
06:37.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: It's generated with adrt_bench by supplying the -c argument.
06:37.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: kdtree_cache_file,kdtree.cache goes into project.env file to make it work.
06:38.58Twingymmm
06:47.10Twingyah
06:47.12Twingyyou stink
06:47.29Twingyallz I got is my wimpy altec lansings
06:47.59Twingybtw, connie called me yesterday and wants to know if you and I would go visit her in reno, heh
06:48.29TwingyI think she was serious :)
06:51.36Twingyyou camping out at the office tonight?
06:55.40brlcadnah, just working through the night
06:55.52brlcadno smores
06:55.55Twingyso should I tell her you'll be visiting reno in the near future? :)
06:56.01brlcadhmm.. smores in the toaster
06:56.07Twingygo fer it
06:56.18Twingyjust don't plug it into the ups
06:56.24Twingyor my ups anyways
06:56.26brlcadhehe
06:57.08Twingyhehe
06:57.15brlcadactually, I'll probably burn up half my vacation this week
06:57.24brlcadgoing down south later this week
06:57.24Twingywe could go gambling and lose lots of money, it could be fun!
06:57.33Twingy:}
06:57.41brlcadif I wanted to do that, atlantic city would be far quicker ;)
06:57.46Twingyindeed
06:57.55Twingynicer too
06:57.59Twingywith the ocean and all
06:58.11brlcadtrump plaza
06:58.15brlcadtrump taco bell
06:58.19TwingyI won $150 from uncle trump
06:58.24brlcadtrump exxon
06:58.31Twingytrump donuts
06:58.36brlcadmm.. donuts
06:58.43brlcadi knew i should have stopped on the way in
06:58.52TwingyI went running today
06:58.56brlcadi didn't
06:58.59Twingyeven though my knee is feeling all fucked up
06:59.05brlcadeek
06:59.22Twingyso if I'm hobbling everytime I stand up tommorrow you'll know why
06:59.33Twingydunno if the knee thing has anything to do with running
06:59.36Twingyit's just off and on
06:59.44brlcadi should go workout before everyone shows up in the morning
06:59.46Twingya few weeks it bothers me, a few weeks it's fine
07:00.02brlcadTwingy's getting old
07:00.09Twingynah
07:00.15brlcadheh
07:00.21Twingyooh
07:00.26TwingyI get lower car insurance next month
07:03.29brlcadlex is nice to use
07:03.33brlcadbison is a pita
07:04.24Twingy*sniffle* I just cannot get this crappy 3ghz p4 to go above 750k rays /sec
07:04.58brlcadmaybe if you kick it hard enough
07:05.43Twingymaybe...
07:05.54Twingymaybe I should overclock it to 80 gigglehurts
07:06.20brlcadsupercool it to 200F
07:06.40brlcadwatch the bits just ooze all over the place
07:08.18Twingyblah
07:08.18Twingygroove salad just died
07:08.33Twingyah, there we go
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07:10.45Twingywelp, I think I'm gonna hit the sack now
07:10.58brlcadcya
07:31.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/define.h: defaults at biggest bang for the buck right now.
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12:04.51brlcadhello d_rossberg!
12:08.36d_rossberghello brlcad!
12:18.15brlcadthe windows release seems to be coming together at last
12:18.43brlcadbetween your changes, Bob's, and mine it looks like it won't be long before binaries are posted
12:19.10brlcadpossibly even next iteration/month
12:20.02d_rossbergNOW libbn, libbu, librt, libsysv and libwdb should work with MS Visual Studio
12:20.19brlcadyeah, I noticed the commits
12:20.22d_rossbergat least my viewer application works with it
12:20.37brlcadCIA bot is offline right now or we'd see here too :/
12:20.42brlcadexcellent
12:21.55d_rossbergwhat's the difference between regex.h and brlregex.h? (the last one isnt't used any more)
12:22.39brlcaddepending on your version of studio the regex.h would conflict with a system header
12:22.53brlcadthere were also a few unix boxes that had the problem apparently
12:23.00brlcadbut I never encountered the problem myself
12:23.06brlcadit "should" go away if it can
12:23.32brlcadthe "real" regex sources are in src/other/libregex
12:23.51d_rossbergmay i remove brlregex.h from the repository?
12:23.58brlcadsysv files will disappear some day soon
12:24.51brlcadi believe it's safe to delete brlregex.h
12:25.00brlcadchecking where it's referenced now
12:26.11brlcadhmm.. interesting, only the old sysv files
12:26.17brlcadsure, go ahead :)
12:27.15d_rossberguntil today brlregex.h was only used within ifdef (_WIN32) and only in files not contained in the MS project files, i'll remove the header
12:27.43brlcadyeah, that goes back several years
12:27.56brlcadvc6 iirc
12:32.00d_rossbergall the adaptation for version 7 are in regex.h, so it looks like nobody has used brlregex.h since then
12:37.50brlcadyeah, it should work fine
12:38.28brlcadi use the same files in another popular project that is cross-platform to windows and works just fine there
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16:25.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/doc/binary_spec.txt: updated.
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18:56.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/vlist.c: Fixed bug in overlay code when EOF encountered
18:58.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: overlay command in mged fixed
19:26.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
19:26.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: kd-tree caching is now tuned to the point where full start-up time takes less than
19:26.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 1/4 the time as it did with the fast mid-split algorithm. This number should approach
19:26.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 1/8 as the various parts of the packing/unpacking and caching algorithms are tuned
19:26.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: even further.
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20:44.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/nightly.sh: Added checks for host not known, and build failure
21:33.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: Cannot return a void explicitly on Irix
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050830

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050830

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01:51.21Twingy_mmm
01:51.28Twingy_clone svideo display works now
01:52.38Twingy_only 2 hours left for optimized kd-tree
01:53.21MaloeranTwo hours? Shouldn't you have the whole night left? :)
01:53.47Twingy_hrm?
01:54.09MaloeranAh, I thought you had some deadline, but I understand that was an estimate
01:54.26Twingy_I need to get a video of my ray-tracer ready by tommorrow
01:54.35Twingy_going to make a quicktime
01:55.06Twingy_just finished configuring my other machine with freebsd, it has a svideo dongle
01:55.14Twingy_and dorking with X for the better part of 2 hours
01:55.18MaloeranHere, I dump raw frames on stdout and have mencoder encode on the fly from stdint
01:55.39Twingy_right, but then I have to encode time intervals
01:55.46Twingy_since all frames are not evenly spaced
01:55.52MaloeranAh, okay.
01:56.23Twingy_this way they can see me starting up the app and driving it
01:56.30Twingy_with the mouse and what not
01:57.16Twingy_the kd-tree caching kicks butt with the distributed setup
01:57.26Twingy_the only downside is I gotta kick more data around to the nodes
01:57.39Twingy_300MB (geom + kdtree) to each node
01:57.52Twingy_so that only requires 24 seconds of data transfer
01:58.07Twingy_for my 15 mil polygon model
01:58.13MaloeranGood deal
01:58.26Twingy_openrt is kinda lame like that
01:58.36Twingy_they require you to have the file(s) on the nodes as well
01:59.04Twingy_being able to just shoot the data to the nodes, which have no disks, is nice
01:59.13MaloeranI think I'll implement distributed processing that isn't even visible to the library user
01:59.29Twingy_it's called MPI
01:59.35Twingy_it was done 30 years ago
01:59.37Twingy_:)
01:59.41MaloeranFine :)
02:00.03Twingy_my network code is larger than the actual engine
02:00.14Twingy_since I'm handling all the little cases of what can go wrong
02:00.36MaloeranAh yes, question : what "kind" of scene was Reschenov rendering to get 10 millions? A single object with abundant void around it?
02:00.40Twingy_allowing nodes to connect whenever, dissapear, etc...
02:00.53Twingy_he was walking around inside an office building
02:01.17MaloeranSo the count of visible polygons was much lower than 10m at any time
02:01.24Twingy_yah
02:01.38Twingy_he didn't show any outdoor scenes
02:01.42MaloeranThat's precisely the kind of scene my ray-tracer was thought for
02:01.56Twingy_cool
02:02.19Twingy_exactly the type of scene we don't do at ARL :)
02:02.56Twingy_(but I try to support that sort of stuff off the clock)
02:03.07MaloeranFine, it doesn't perform too bad in scenes where rays pass near most of the geometry either :)
02:03.20Twingy_yep yep
02:03.30MaloeranI think I'll reach that 15m primary rays per second soon, for the tank model
02:03.42Twingy_you should get some new geometry :)
02:03.49Twingy_I've found some cases were my tracer bottomed out
02:03.56Twingy_and made smarter in the kd-tree algorithm
02:04.21MaloeranThe pipe scene isn't far from the worse cases I could imagine :)
02:05.16Twingy_yep
02:05.40MaloeranAt least for my ray-tracer, BSP doesn't care as much about spatial organisation and distribution
02:07.01Twingy_welp, time to poke at this video some
02:23.55silvap_so sick..
02:24.07Twingy_o.O
02:24.33Twingy_hrm
02:24.38silvap_think i have mono
02:24.39Twingy_erik undid the delacktimes
02:24.40silvap_:(
02:24.44Twingy_bummer dude
02:26.18Twingy_or not
02:54.12Twingy_hrm
02:54.27Twingy_3.85 hours and going
03:03.19Twingy_very tempting to wait for it to finish
03:03.32Twingy_should be done within the hour
03:03.58Twingy_then I could just put the video together in the morning
03:04.03Twingy_hrms
03:04.45Twingy_I think that's what I'll do
03:05.31Twingy_okay, be back in about 7 hours
03:06.51Twingy_ooh!
03:06.54Twingy_it just finished
03:07.05Twingy_happy dance!
03:07.11Twingy_talk about timing
03:23.53MaloeranAh :), that spares you the doubt of waking up to see a Segmentation fault
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11:05.00Twingy_.
11:21.02learner./
11:24.06Maloeran:/
12:16.08Twingy_mmm
12:16.16Twingy_sleeeeee3333eeeep
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12:47.08brlcadyay, time to release soon
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15:17.12AlekosPneed some help on building brlcad with Microsoft Visual C; anyone can help
15:18.37brlcadhello AlekosP
15:18.53brlcadwhat sort of help?
15:22.08AlekosPI tried to build with Vusual C++, but most of .dsp have problems; I think I fixed at least a part, but something strange happens with my TK-windows; is there anyone I can send the result of my efforts?
15:23.06AlekosPby the way, it's my first time on a chat, so my netiquette is poor: hello brlcad!
15:23.33brlcadheh, not a problem
15:23.38brlcadand welcome
15:23.53brlcadsome actually live on irc ;)
15:24.20brlcadas for the build, that's not incredibly surprising -- there's two primary devs working on the windows builds
15:25.03brlcadthere were a handful of fixes that have been made to cvs recently, you would be better off using the latest cvs than using a source tarball from the project site
15:25.25brlcadthere's also build files in the misc/ directory that look like are more up to date
15:26.44AlekosPfor that matter, I just checked on the cvs that the .dsp for the liboptical stuff is still missing the "r"s , so Microsoft becomes Micosoft and Target is spelt as Taget (and the project file isn't recognized!)...
15:27.43AlekosP... I mean the one in the src/liboptical folder...
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15:29.20brlcadheh
15:29.22brlcadhmm
15:31.52brlcadyep, looks like that one in particular had \r's stripped a really long time ago...
15:32.41AlekosPwho is directly in charge of the Windows/Microsoft VC stuff? And is there a place where I can learn how to track/debug the flow of a tcl/tk application? For it seems to me that The problem I'm encountering are mostly of that nature
15:33.59brlcadI wouldn't say anyone's directly in "charge" of the VC projects, there are two devs that work on it from time to time
15:34.18brlcadyou're more than welcome to maintain that build if you're interested ;)
15:34.53Obscene_CNNif your a masochist  ;-)
15:35.06AlekosPwell, I'm for sure interested, but I can't say if I'm able to...
15:35.45brlcadObscene_CNN: hehe
15:36.17brlcadAlekosP: shouldn't be too much work to rewrite the liboptical project file, there's not much tricky about that library
15:36.35AlekosPHi, Obscene_CNN, why shudder, if a project is open source, I think it should be as open as possible (of course working with MS VC isn't always comfortable)
15:36.46brlcador even readd the missing r's .. i'll have to track it back through the history to see where they were stripped accidentally
15:37.11brlcadI should be able to restore it, but even then it may still be out of date - that goes back a couple years
15:37.14Obscene_CNNM$ VC doesn't always work as advertised.
15:37.39Obscene_CNN<PROTECTED>
15:38.09brlcadVC6 is pretty buggy, the newer versions are considerably better
15:38.19AlekosPI already have a working liboptical project file and a working mged.exe. Only it "almost" works; the tk windows behave quite strangely, get updated not when they are expected to...
15:38.39brlcadAlekosP: that's good to hear
15:39.22brlcadAlekosP: if you post up any mods to the sourceforge project patches tracker, I or one of the other guys can commit it
15:39.35AlekosPI agree with brlcad about vc7 beeing better than vc6 --
15:39.38brlcaddo that more than a couple times and it's an easy means to get your own commit access
15:40.31brlcadI'm always interested in getting new devs
15:40.32AlekosPwell, brlcad. I need some help for posting my changes
15:40.35brlcadeven if you do use windows :)
15:40.44AlekosPsorry ...
15:40.48Obscene_CNNM$ anounced they are going to ship the next version of their developer studio after the last beta. Users of it begged for another beta, but were denied. M$ also plans to introduce a major component without a beta test in the release version.
15:40.50brlcadhehe, j/k
15:43.25AlekosPso, brlcad, what if I simply pack only my modified sources (no objs or temporary things) in a tar/bz2 and I ship it to you directly?
15:44.26AlekosPand maybe also the executable + dll's so that you can look at the strange behavior of the gui windows...?
15:46.49brlcadsure
15:47.31brlcador post up that tarbz to the patches tracker (without the exe/dlls)
15:49.15AlekosPI'll try the last one. Thanks. Bye everybody
15:50.37brlcadyou might want to comment on the devs mailing list if you can describe the problems
15:51.06brlcadI'll be glad to take a look at it too, see what strange behavior you mean
15:54.30AlekosPsomething like this; you open a .g file from the db directory from the command windows of mged; then you browse the geometry and say to mged that you want the root of the model to be displayed; nothing happens. But if you go to the help menu of the graphics window, select the item "commands" and simply exit the menu, suddenly you get your model displayed in the graphics window
15:56.57AlekosPquite strange,isn't it? That's why I think it should be easier if you get a copy of the executable, and look directly; this is for sure just one of the problems...
16:00.33brlcadsounds like the display manager isn't updating
16:00.46brlcadI suspect if you resize the window, it'd draw
16:02.40AlekosPbrlcad, I'll try to see if resizing does the work; thanks in advance. By now, bye everybody, I'll try to get in touch tomorrow (morning, for you) ...
16:02.54brlcadcya
16:03.19brlcadby the way, you might be interested in getting a better non-web-browser based irc client
16:03.44brlcadthey're much "better" apps, the web interface is just to get folks in quick ;)
16:04.17AlekosPof course, so I can let you not that I'm say "looking" or something like that. Any suggestion?
16:05.19AlekosP[ ... I can let you know   (not NOT) ...]  cya
16:07.12brlcadhttp://irchelp.org
16:07.21brlcadxchat is one many use
16:08.07brlcadmirc is another
16:08.11brlcadhttp://www.ircreviews.org/clients/platforms-windows.html
16:09.34brlcadhttp://www.psyon.org/projects/xchat-win32/
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20:08.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (define.h kdtree.c tie.c): about to try some stuff.
20:11.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: better configure section output, m4 macro in order
20:19.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add legal headers on the manpages (as comments), update header.sh
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21:22.39brlcadhello cad635
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21:36.40cad293Just looking at BRLCAD for the 1st time today
21:39.22brlcadsounds good
21:40.30brlcadif you have any questions or get stuck somewhere, feel free to ask your questions
21:40.41brlcadsomeone will eventually answer :)
21:42.54cad293are there any thermal analysis capabilities?
21:43.36brlcadthere are limited analysis capabilities in general except those related to geometric structure or signal processing
21:43.41brlcadbut yes
21:43.55brlcadthere's an rttherm raytracer
21:44.22brlcadthat uses a multispectral rendering to simulate thermal energy signatures
21:44.53brlcadhasn't been used in a long time by anyone here, but it's there
21:58.16cad293ok, thanks, i'll probably be back after I get this installed
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23:30.42Twingygrumph
23:31.39brlcadsaid the grinch
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050831

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050831

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02:05.02silvap_the pain..
02:15.55brlcadsilvap_: i'm convinced.. srcviz :)
02:16.07brlcador SrcViz whatever
02:19.51Twingythat was a good nap *smacks his lips together*
02:20.33Twingywelp, got my sleep for the week in
02:23.03Twingyeek
02:23.15TwingyJustin,
02:23.15Twingy<PROTECTED>
02:23.52silvap_woo woo!
02:24.01silvap_i like lower case
02:24.55Twingyyah
02:25.01Twingyit requires less work
02:25.07TwingyUNLESS YOU'RE CELEBRATING HAPPY CAPS DAY
02:25.14TwingyTHEN YOU CAN JUST USE CAPS LOCK LIKE A MOFO
02:25.24silvap_or BeInG LEeT
02:25.32Twingyor being lazy
02:25.47silvap_scratch that
02:25.53silvap_being '14 yr old asian girl'
02:26.06Twingymmm, almost legal
02:26.13silvap_kekekekeke =>^^<=
02:26.18Twingy^_^
02:26.32Twingyhrm
02:26.39TwingyI want my other opteron machine god damnit
02:26.53silvap_did u plug the one in
02:26.53Twingyyah
02:26.55Twingyit posts fine
02:27.01silvap_did it sound like a jet engine
02:27.02Twingy4 cores, 8GB of ram
02:27.05Twingynope
02:27.09Twingyit was rather quiet :)
02:27.13Twingyyour machine is just retarded loud :)
02:27.22silvap_so u are getting two of these
02:27.27silvap_for 'portability' ?
02:27.51silvap_what's wrong with rackmount cases
02:28.04silvap_8 of those should fit in that one case
02:32.25Twingyyah
02:32.50Twingysec, phone
03:07.30Twingyto get 1 mobo with 4 dual core procs woulda cost an extra $3k
03:07.34Twingyor more
03:07.40Twingyactually, about $7k more
03:08.06Twingy$8k for 2 cases, $15k for 1 case, same crunch
03:08.37Twingyto?
03:09.50brlcadbeach house, south carolina
03:09.55brlcadleaving tomorrow
03:09.55Twingyah
03:09.59Twingycool
03:10.08TwingyI'll be in NC the week of sept 25th
03:10.15Twingyfor a few days
03:10.33brlcadthe bus is actually surprisingly about the cost of gas
03:12.05Twingyyah
03:12.09Twingymy plane is $195 both ways
03:12.19Twingymy trooper costs $75 each way in gas
03:12.24Twingyso, no brainer
03:12.35brlcadheh
03:12.40brlcadspensive trooper ;)
03:12.44Twingyyep
03:12.49Twingy2 tanks of gas to get there
03:12.54Twingyeach tank is like $37
03:13.12brlcad2 tanks for me to get to the bottom of sc, and that's just a 12g tank
03:13.47brlcadstill.. even the train is cheaper than 195
03:13.51brlcadconsiderably
03:14.00brlcadand you can do stuff on the way
03:14.09Twingyhow long is it?
03:14.17Twingydriving is 7 hours
03:14.38brlcadticket for train was 105 to sc, 12 hour ride
03:14.44brlcadyahoo says car is 10.5
03:15.24Twingynot bad
03:15.33brlcadbus is going to be 15 hours, but is only 65 and leaves after the crack of noon
03:15.37Twingyif you got the time
03:15.49Twingyick
03:15.52Twingy15 hours@!
03:16.01brlcadit stops so you can eat
03:16.06Twingyah
03:16.11Twingystill
03:16.12brlcad3 1 hour stops
03:16.45brlcadyou've "got the time" if you have something to do
03:17.04brlcadi'll be working on my laptop till the batteries are dead
03:17.25TwingyI mean I got 3 days of time to visit
03:17.28Twingysat - mon
03:17.33Twingyif I spend 24 hours traveling...
03:18.24brlcadmeh, 24 vs 18 aint much different..
03:18.31brlcadcould maket that up sleeping less
03:18.47brlcadand you'd still be able to get more done
03:19.14Twingymeh, 2 hours on the plane :P
03:19.23brlcadah, so you are flying
03:19.40brlcadthought you meant 195 each way
03:20.02Twingyah
03:20.11Twingyyah, 195 round trip, plus parking of course
03:20.22Twingyso like 210 all said and done
03:20.29brlcadyeah, that's not bad
03:30.57Twingyhrm
03:31.02Twingypesky phone
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15:41.29brlcadd_rossberg: there was another windows dev in yesterday after you left, sounded interested in improving support more for vc in the build system
15:42.24brlcadhe noticed that liboptical's vc project file apparently has most all of the r's stripped (probably someone running tr -d on it to get rid of windows newlines a long time ago)
15:42.52brlcadanyhow, just thought that you might find that interesting
15:47.21d_rossbergI red this conversation at rikers
15:47.36brlcadahh
15:49.00d_rossbergit sounds like he has the solution too
15:49.12brlcadpossibly, or that he was close
15:49.35brlcadI should be able to restore that build file, but it'd also be easy enough to recreate too
15:49.42d_rossbergat least, he could build the mged.exe
15:50.21d_rossbergI would prefer to recreate the dsp file, based on the ones in libbn etc.
15:51.51d_rossbergbut my next task is the creation of a dll which could be used in extern programs
15:55.39brlcadnow that should be something that bob's got working already
15:57.28brlcadat leat some or the work for that
15:57.43d_rossbergthere are several solutions to this probem
15:57.49brlcadhe should be rolling changes in real soon now
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15:58.25d_rossbergthe straight forward one is to build dll's not static libraries as i did
15:58.45d_rossbergbut i prefer to have only one brlcad.dll
16:00.39brlcadyeah, you're not alone in that regard :)
16:00.47brlcadnor is the windows platform
16:01.04d_rossbergi wonder what Bobs solution will be
16:01.06brlcadthat's a reasonable approach for mac os x frameworks too, one "BRL-CAD" framework
16:01.43brlcadthough on osx, you can combine frameworks, so the brl-cad framework would simply be a union of libbu, libbn, etc
16:02.04brlcadBob's been working on making dlls
16:02.12brlcadhe added the header hooks already
16:02.22brlcadteh BU_EXTERN dll stuff for example
16:03.48d_rossbergthe problem is: in MS Visual Studio a function from a library will only be exported if an other function from the same source file is used in the main program/dll
16:05.04brlcadheh
16:05.09brlcadthat could get tricky then
16:05.18brlcadyou guys have your work cut out for you then :)
16:06.06brlcadcould cheat and make one global function symbol table that registers every available function
16:06.14brlcadso that they all become exported
16:06.25brlcadtcl does something to this effect actually for their stub lib
16:07.16brlcadwouldn't even have to really use the function table, it should be just enough to make it export the symbols
16:07.35brlcadand if you did have to use it, a simple debug/print function that prints them all would do the trick
16:07.35d_rossbergsomething like this could work, but you have to keep this table up to date
16:11.30d_rossbergi'll think about it next week, when i'm on vacation :)
16:12.14brlcadyeah, that would be an issue keeping it up to date, but not too horrible
16:12.35brlcadit'd also be interesting to see just what exactly doesn't export without it too.. and the reasons why
16:19.15d_rossbergin vc it's possible to list the exported functions in a seperate recource file, maybe i should try this
16:34.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/fence.c: er, close the file please
16:44.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: prevent crashing if someone attempts to call wdb_delete_cmd directly without an interpreter
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18:05.57cad121brlcad:I'm trying to install BRL-cad on WIN2000. I installed Cygwin with GCC and ./configure;  I try to run "make" and it doesn't exist.  Any suggestions?
18:13.00archivistinstall make etc
18:13.21archivisthttp://cygwin.com/packages/
18:16.31cad121ok, thanks
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18:58.14brlcadarchivist: hehe
18:59.47archivistone wonders with some error messages! can they be clearer! hehe
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22:19.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/.cvsignore: g-wave renamed to g-obj
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050901

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050901

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050902

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050902

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17:00.01ManuelFelipequien habla español
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17:14.30dargorwhich tools have brlcad for mechanical design?
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17:31.16IngManhi
17:34.10Twingy_hi
17:35.10IngManhow find the volumen of design
17:35.20IngManusing brlcad
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17:56.44IngManhi
18:01.43Twingy_ah
18:01.50Twingy_there is a tool called g_qa
18:02.00Twingy_type "man g_qa"
18:02.07Twingy_it'll show you how to find volume and density
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050903

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050903

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16:32.33af1nany dev here?
16:33.39af1ni have problems with linking libtclcad on my gnu/linux/gentoo system
16:40.15af1nok, got it, your automake scripts suck :P
17:18.02MaloeranFeel free to share more information, for them to fix the problem whenever they'll take a look on irc
17:23.18af1nthank you, for now i will leave the bugs on sourceforge, i hoped for a quick fix, but the problem seams quite severe on my system (if i still want to build brlcad with external libtk )
17:34.26MaloeranI certainly didn't have problems compiling on Gentoo amd64, but I only played around with a very small chunk of the source
17:37.53af1nversion 7.2.4 did compile quiet ok
17:39.13af1nin 7.4.2 libtclcad references internal libtk structures thru tkInt.h tkCanvas.h and tkPort.h
17:40.01af1nthe problem is that if one is trying to build with external libtk one doesn't have access to these files, they are lost in /dev/null after instalation of tk
17:40.16af1nthese *are not* normal header files
17:41.31af1nand if u have tk version mismatch betwen system and brlcad, u get messed up structures when linking with libtk
17:42.27af1nso the only solution is to stick with tk-8.4.6 and let brlcad use it's internal tk for reference, or build it with it's internal tk and mess up the system :]
17:42.51af1nboth are very bad practices from packager point of view
17:43.17af1nand referencing internal structures of a library is wrong from programer point of view :]
17:44.25af1nbut i guess they didn't have the choice ( or didn't want to mess with tk lib itself )
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050904

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050904

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02:52.21learneraf1n, thanks for the feedback -- actually that tkCanvasBezier is actually a bonefide Tk mod, which is why it looks/acts likes it's part of tk 8.4
02:53.23learneraf1n, the reason is because it is/was a part, the sources were provided via a modified version of libtk -- it's been only recently that I pulled out tkCanvasBezier so that it was even possible to link against a system libtk
02:56.32learnerpulling it out, however, didn't change the fact that we need the bezier canvas support that the tk project has still yet to integrate (their tip submission process is painful and seemingly slow/cumbersome and way way down on our priority list).  if you look into libtk's sources, you'll see that our tkcanvasbezier is actually like all the other tkcanvas* objects, hence the accessing of internal structures, internal header inclusions, etc.  
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04:28.14learnerthere you is
04:28.17learnerpong
04:28.44PrezKennedyarggghh
04:29.13PrezKennedybeen poking frantically for days!! :-P
04:29.59learnerI've been gone since Wed, offline down in south carolina
04:30.17PrezKennedyahhh sounds like very hot
04:31.13learnerit was great
04:31.21learnerlots of sand and sun
04:31.43PrezKennedydoes sound like fun
04:32.03learnerI'll read your message right before I left, everything you said sounded fine
04:33.49PrezKennedyi forgot what i said :-\
04:36.41PrezKennedyill look it up on my laptop later... my friend is over right now
04:36.59learneryou'd said something about moving the old site
05:27.21*** topic/#brlcad by learner -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
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08:40.37af1nlearner are you alive?
08:40.51af1ni have problems with include conflict
08:41.14af1nof course tcl.h and friends :)
08:41.56af1nwould it be a problem to keep the in seperate dir and include the only if --enable-tcl-build=yes
08:43.35af1nps: sorry for pushing the seperate build thing
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14:58.04docelic'day
15:13.59learnerhowdy
15:14.17learneraf1n, what sort of conflicts?
15:20.00af1nhmm, realy strange ones... tcl.h was included from brlcad include directory, and it was not compatibile with the rest of includes in my /usr/include, but the problem disappeared once i stoped mangling with --{include,data,.*}dir= i now use only --prefix and everything seams ok
15:20.42af1ni fixed some of the autoconf scripts, they are in bugs section on sourceforge
15:22.23af1nhow long will it take for 7.6.0 to be released ? :]
15:28.48learnershould happen this week
15:29.34learnerwe release on a monthly iteration, so at the beginning of every month whatever has stabilized
15:30.06learnerhmm.. i didn't get a bug/patch posting notification
15:31.09learnerahh, so I did and there they are
15:33.16learneraf1n, i'm not sure what can exactly be done about the internal headers being used by tkcanvasbezier -- could try extracting just the declarations that are being used by it, but I'd gather that to be significant.  easy enough to try though.
15:35.15learnerthe "real answer" is to get someone to push them back up into Tk proper, maybe in time to make 8.6 but that'd be tough
15:42.11af1nlearner no problem, everything compiles smoothly now, i guess the problems were related to passing to much --{some}dir= to ./configure, now when i use default dirs everything works ok, even thoug there is version mismatch betwen brlcad tk/tcl and the one in my own system
15:42.43learnerk, good to hear
15:42.45af1nthe problem a bit hard for me to pin point exacly, i will update you if i find more info
15:42.57af1nthe past problem of course :)
15:43.05learnerregarding your patch, what was the reason for removing the #ifdef have header checks?
15:43.08af1nbut just for curiosity i will check :)
15:43.15learnerif they don't exist, it suggests it failed to detect them
15:43.34af1nyes, but anyway if they dont exist the test will fail
15:43.42af1nit won't compile
15:43.43learnernot necessarily
15:43.58learnerthere are some systems where those are not the headers you'd include to get Tcl
15:43.59af1nok, my mistake
15:44.15af1nsorry
15:44.28learnerit's more scaffolding that still needs to be improved upon, it'd probably make more sense if it was extended to the Tcl framework on Mac, for example
15:44.36learnerno biggie, just curious
15:46.19af1nanyway, thx for your support, i am posting a working brlcad-7.4.2.ebuild (sort of how to make and install recepe ) to gentoos bugzilla
15:47.09learnerexcellent, thank you
15:47.26learnerthere have been a couple others helping getting the ebuild set up
15:47.38learnergetting tcl/tk decoupled was one of the hurdles
15:47.44learneramong many
15:48.31learnerbrl-cad's such a large package that goes back to a time where installing into your own root was commonplace yet today only a couple still do (think /usr/X11R6, etc)
15:49.18learnerthere are still a couple issues, that I suspect will come up at least eventually in the gentoo build that will have to be worked out yet
15:49.28learnerlike what happens when there is a library name conflict
15:49.36af1noh, good you said that... i was thinking about where to place brlcad
15:49.58af1ni see that the official policy from the binary tarball is to put everything in /usr/brlcad
15:50.15learnertraditionally, brl-cad *wants* to be installed into /usr/brlcad -- fixes have been made relatively recently so that places like /usr and /usr/local work just as well
15:50.29learnerright
15:50.49learnerthat of course doesn't bode too well with the packaging distributions like gentoo and debian in particular
15:51.03learnerwho only exempt x11 these days
15:51.41af1nin gentoo we have large packages like kde or qt in /usr/packagename
15:51.43learnerI've taken care of colliding resources, with everything going to prefix/share/brlcad/version now
15:52.11af1nyes i saw it, its great, we can now have multiple brlcad versions installed the same time
15:52.18learnersort of
15:52.38docelicis there a document describing how the ARL came to idea of gpl-ing ?
15:52.39learnerthe libraries and binaries still go to prefix/bin and prefix/lib without any regard to what's there
15:53.36learnerI've yet to write that document.. :)  but it is on my todo list
15:53.55af1nlearner are you one person BRLCAD team? :]
15:54.13learnerit's pretty interesting actually, took about five years of constant effort
15:54.34learneraf1n, heh, no
15:54.56af1nbut it looks like you are now the main architect :)
15:55.12learnerthat would be a fair assessment
15:56.16learneri've been leading the development for several years now, in particular on the open source side where I've been able to focus more effort
15:57.00learnerthere are others that work on the code, though, and now that it's open source I'm looking to get more and more people involved
15:57.55learnerwe have the potential to escalate the project up to a huge level of visibility with the right kind of involvement, and next year should be pretty exciting with all of the plans in place
16:00.38learnereek, sorry!  spelled it wrong
16:00.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: slolina points out a bug in the iwidgets test, the package name is capitalized (sf patch 1281175)
16:01.19docelicThat's nice
16:05.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Slonina (spell it right this time) provides a fix for the iwidgets test. a null result means failure (sf patch 1281175)
16:06.42learnerprobably not the best time to test enabling Tk with the release right around the corner
16:07.20learnerit's been specifically disabled with that build_brlcad_tk=yes on purpose for a couple reasons (though should all be fixed now, but weren't a month ago)
16:08.02af1nand i was wondering where this artefact came from :), lol
16:09.04learnerit was related to a bunch of relocation issues -- if you built brl-cad to install in /usr/brlcad, yet actually installed it in /usr/local or somewhere else there were a variety of relocation problems
16:09.58learnerthat should all be working now with the exception of maybe one issue that hasn't been tested in a while
16:10.45learneryou found that you needed to include tcl.h before tk.h for tk's test?  it shouldn't have been required (and ideally the test should stay decoupled if possible)
16:11.08af1nlearner if i can help, i will be glad to do so, i can do some testing, but my unix skills are limited ( its the first time i am in someones changelog )
16:11.21af1nok, one moment i will check it
16:11.40learnerof course you can help :)
16:12.36learneras I mentioned, I'm looking for some good folks to become a part of the dev team too, so any level of involvement is appreciated ;)
16:13.30learnerahh you know what.. about the tcl.h header -- it is require, I forgot that the test had changed to actually invoke the tcl interpreter
16:13.43learnerthanks for pointing it out :)
16:14.01af1nglad i could be useful :)
16:14.45af1nand what are the current points on the TODO list?
16:14.56af1nok, will check the CVS :)
16:15.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: and Slonina conveniently also notices that the Tk test is now using the tcl interpreter, and thus needs the tcl header (sf patch 1281175)
16:15.37docelicIs the person who announced brlcad ITP (intention to package) for Debian GNU in coordination with you?
16:16.09docelicsupposedly it's Balbir Thomas <thomas.1037@osu.edu>
16:17.37learnerhe's one of two others that have worked on the ebuild on and off
16:18.10learneri haven't seen him in a while
16:18.28docelicThe ITP is from January 2005, and no packages are in the archive yet
16:19.27learneryeah, I wouldn't hold my breath :)
16:19.32learnerthough he has been involved since
16:20.47af1nlearner if you need someone to package brlcad for debian i can volunteer, i was using debian 4 years ago, before i switched to gentoo, but i don't want to arrange in the official contats with Debian comunity
16:21.09af1narrange = engage, sorry
16:21.21docelicaf1n, that doesn't really make you an official packager :)
16:21.29docelics/official/ideal/
16:21.59af1nnop, i am neither official packager for gentoo :)
16:23.19learnerthat is how one gets started, though :)
16:26.35af1nthat would be an honour for me, but these bugs are so small...
16:27.14learnerdon't belittle the one-line bug fixes
16:27.27learnersometimes those are the hardest to find
16:28.16af1nhope i find some more :], but i didn't look for these ones, they came to me :)
16:28.38learnerI'm sure you'll find more if you look hard enough, and if you don't I have a nice long list of them :)
16:28.52af1n:)
16:28.54af1nok
16:30.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: configuration build fixes for Tk/Iwidgets (sf patch 1281175) provided by Michal Slonina
16:31.24learnerit also takes little effort to give credit where credit is due no matter now small the contribution
16:38.00af1nlearner i read the todo, and there are some little things i could fix, thx for giving me opportunity to learn some coding, excpect very small patches in two weeks ( i have 2 failed exams to pass yet, so not much time now )
16:38.27af1nand thx for your support
16:39.58docelicdont play with the exams, they're a priority :)
16:46.55af1ni got red light from gentoo science team about puting brlcad into /usr/brlcad, it has to comply to FHS ( strange they didn't respect FHS in the past )
16:53.51learneraf1n, not too unexpected
16:58.45learnerthe closest equivalent in the fhs structure would probably be /opt/brlcad but I'm not too fond of that idea myself
17:01.43learnerjust means that more work is needed to have a /usr/lib/brlcad or somesuch to protect the libraries from conflicting
17:22.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: the default is still to build tk even if detected, so no sense in forcing the build on regardless of the configure argument. it's close to working now if it's not already.
19:01.25af1n--prefix=/usr --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --datadir=/usr/share --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var/lib
19:01.42af1nlearner i have a question regarding the placement of files, u see gentoo has a special command called econf in ebuilds which calls ./configure with the options given above
19:02.32af1nit works for most packages, but brlcad behaviour seams strange
19:04.15af1ni put the list of files i get after installing brlcad on:
19:04.19af1nhttp://behemot.ath.cx/brlcad/ls-lr.txt
19:04.35af1nand the config.log:
19:05.05af1nhttp://behemot.ath.cx/brlcad/config.log
19:06.26af1nmost packages understand datadir as the location where they can create their own directory
19:07.00af1n( from what i have observed, but i am total lame and can be wrong )
19:07.27brlcadheh, you're just full of self-confidence :)
19:08.17brlcadhmm
19:08.41brlcadthere are several things I see wrong in that install with those options
19:08.59brlcadlike the usr/include/brlcad symbolic link
19:09.02af1nbut they work for emacs and for wine
19:09.18af1nsorry, the symbolic link is created in the script by me
19:09.26af1none moment
19:10.35brlcaddatadir of /usr/share is normal?
19:10.45brlcadi.e. those are the defaults?
19:11.41af1nyes
19:11.57af1nand for most packages they are ok
19:12.26brlcadmost packages don't have nearly as many components
19:12.38af1nhttp://behemot.ath.cx/brlcad/brlcad-7.4.2.ebuild
19:12.47brlcadstill, point is well taken and there is fixin' needed
19:15.13af1nif test "x$datadir" = "x\${prefix}/share" ; then
19:15.14af1n<PROTECTED>
19:15.14af1nelse
19:15.14af1n<PROTECTED>
19:15.14af1n<PROTECTED>
19:15.14af1nfi
19:15.20af1nfrom configure.ac
19:15.38brlcadyes
19:15.43af1nit looks like there is some logic in configure.ac that should do it
19:15.59af1nbut somehow it works not like expected
19:16.47af1nok, i will try to fix it, you can accept the patch then if u like it :]
19:16.55brlcadspeaking of FHS guidelines, using a datadir of /usr/share by default breaks those guidelines without modifying datadir further
19:17.52af1nbut the packages that use --datadir=/usr/share normaly put their files in /usr/share/packagename/
19:18.20af1nok i will dig autoconf doc and fhs
19:18.45brlcadthe problem I have with that is that's not what "datadir" means
19:18.56brlcadnot that it can't be fixed to do that the same here
19:20.46brlcadsimilar as is done for a default datadir value
19:22.42brlcadhmm.. configure should have reached the first case now that I think of it .. prefix is /usr, datadir is /usr/share == prefix/share
19:22.57af1nyes, that's the point
19:23.26brlcadthat was? :)
19:23.33brlcadoops, then :)
19:24.47brlcadtry removing the \
19:26.31brlcador print the quoted value .. something awry
19:27.56af1nautoconfing... :)
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19:31.36af1nsmoooth :)
19:31.47af1n"another one bites the dust"
19:32.41af1nthose are worst kinds of bugs, they lurk in the depths :)
19:53.15brlcadahh, now I think I see what/why it was that way
19:53.33af1ncan you share your thoughts?
19:53.35brlcadthe default data dir really is '${prefix}' unexpanded
19:54.04brlcad'${prefix}/share'
19:56.07af1nhmm, '${prefix}' unexpanded? what do you mean?
19:56.25af1none moment i have to look in .ac
19:57.00brlcadthat the value of the datadir variable is actually '${prefix}/share', not '/usr/share' for example
19:57.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: support systems that provide a prefix and datadir (e.g. /usr and /usr/share respectively)
20:00.46af1nbut still even when doing ./configure without any --.* options the past behaviour was broken
20:01.00brlcadhow so?
20:01.24brlcadwithout any options, data dir is '${prefix}/share' so it matches the first if case
20:01.40af1nok now i see it :)
20:01.44brlcadand installs into prefix/share/brlcad/version
20:03.33af1nsuch fast thinkig comes mainly from expiriance or IQ? becouse i don't know if i should continue my career in CS :]
20:03.48brlcadheh
20:03.58brlcadcontinue :)
20:04.10af1nmost of u guys are 300% faster in spoting the problems than I
20:04.33af1nsometimes i even dont have time to type vi :)
20:05.58brlcadjust give it time, getting involved in a code that you know and work with intimately and working with others can help a lot
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050905

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050905

01:21.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/.cvsignore: ignore g_qa too
01:24.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/.cvsignore: ignore ltmain.sh and so_locations
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12:13.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strsep.c: need stdlib.h for NULL
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21:50.53cad193Hi all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050906

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050906

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01:03.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (9 files in 6 dirs): Aggressive prep is about 3.3x faster now. Fixed a few Makefile.am's.
01:52.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/doc/binary_spec.txt: updated binary spec.
02:14.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (Makefile.am g-adrt.c): total tri num at byte position 4.
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03:00.23brlcadhowdy K`zan
03:03.33Twingydirka dirka dirka stan
03:05.08K`zanHello brlcad
03:05.34K`zanNeed a cad package for linux and looking at the options :-).
03:08.22K`zanUh, is this a cad package in the conventional sense or a cad programming language ?
03:08.30brlcadlesse, as open-source there's pythoncad, qcad, and of course now brl-cad
03:08.38brlcadit is a full-fledged cad package
03:10.03brlcadbrl-cad's been developed over the past 20 years, with emphasis on solid modeling of military vehicles (e.g. tanks, helicopters, etc)
03:10.11K`zanThanks, docs are a bit confusing so far.  Assuming I knew something about autosketch, would it be in any way familiar to that in terms of use.  So far I have been using xfig but am too rapidly outgrowing it and on a miller lite budget :-(.
03:10.51brlcadwhen you say cad do you mean design/modeling or drafting (cadd)?
03:11.04K`zanMy needs are considerably simpler, some equipment / furniture drawing and just a general "draw-er-up" mostly in 2D most of the time anyway.
03:11.33K`zandrafting is more what I need.  Anything else is gravy that wouldn't be used often at all.
03:11.37brlcadbrl-cad's much (MUCH) more focused on 3D geometry and modeling techniques for various reasons
03:11.48brlcadthough there is a 2D sketch primitive
03:12.05brlcadand a sketcher interface for modeling them in 2d
03:12.28K`zanWhat lead me to this was I am currently designing a rather simple workstation but 3D in this case would be really handy :-).
03:12.31brlcadit's not at all up to par with other drafting tools, though, which might be more in line with what you're more familiar with
03:13.12brlcadsomething like qcad for example
03:13.20K`zan:-) as noted, miller lite budget on a good day here.  Plus I'm doing this mostly for myself in whatever projects I just happen to get inspired to do...
03:13.28brlcadbut if you want to jump to 3d, brl-cad is pretty much the only solid modeler open source
03:13.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: more total tri_num stuff
03:13.44K`zanSo I noticed :-).
03:14.12brlcadif you're a dev, 2d improvements wouldn't be rejected ;)
03:14.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (pack.c unpack.c): total tri num stuff.
03:14.26K`zanWell, I just grabbed the source, so I can at least compile it and see how I fit into it.
03:14.26brlcadhave you read some of the documentation
03:14.48K`zanDOwnloaded what looks to be docs, I am *assuming* that will be in the source package.
03:14.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/pack.c: removed prints
03:15.06brlcadreading the mged tutorials will probably give you a good/better ideo of the modeling techniques
03:15.18brlcadthe docs are on the website, http://brlcad.org
03:15.31brlcadthe docs in the source are okay, but somewhat older
03:16.06K`zanTHis might be very handy, but any cad package is a fill in thing and not a full time job, more support for whatever I am doing.  Would rather not have to spend 2 years learning to use it :-)
03:16.44brlcadit should pretty much only take a couple days to get through all the tutorials
03:16.57brlcadwe've had summer students make it through them in less than a day
03:17.27K`zanOk, sounds like a plan, after all to do some of the stuff I saw there, you got to build the parts and that is mostly CAD, I would think.
03:17.32brlcadthat will give you the foundation for modeling almost anything
03:17.38K`zanI'll go ahead and build it and see how it works out.
03:17.49brlcadsounds good
03:18.03brlcadif you run into any trouble, feel free to hop in here and ask or post it up
03:18.05K`zanPlayed with some of the modeling stuff for flight sim related stuff and just drowned :-/.
03:18.31K`zanTHey say GMAX is supposed to be easy, but I have a fundamental problem with m$ stuff :).
03:18.42brlcadmged's interface is rather expert-driven (unfortunately) meaning that you have to learn a handful of commands before you can run with it
03:19.03brlcadthere's little interface discovery possible, you really have to go through the tutorials
03:19.17K`zanThat shouldn't bve a big problem after autocad/sketch and xfig :-).
03:19.39brlcadthere are new modelers under development that fix this problem, but they won't be in beta for a long time
03:19.41K`zanGood, I like to read, will capture it to the Zire and take it with me.
03:19.52brlcadyou found the pdf?
03:20.03K`zanGot a couple so far.
03:20.28brlcadthe first three are the most important
03:20.53K`zanThese:
03:20.56K`zan# Overview of BRL-CAD
03:20.59K`zan# Introduction to MGED
03:21.01K`zan# Principles of Effective Modeling
03:21.02brlcadanother thing to keep in mind is that mged, while the core modeler, is only 1 of over 400 tools in brl-cad
03:21.06brlcadyes
03:21.23K`zanSounds like enough to keep a learning junkie busy for a while :-).
03:21.37brlcadyep :)
03:22.02K`zanOkdokee, will build it up and go  through the tutorials and see what happens.  Very much appreciate your help and guidance here!
03:22.11K`zanl
03:22.15brlcadyou can do most of the modeling from inside mged until you get to more advanced techniques
03:22.23brlcadno problem
03:22.26brlcadhave fun
03:22.54K`zantar -xjvf ~/zdl/
03:22.59K`zanoops
03:23.00brlcadhehe
03:23.14K`zanI'll probably be back to amaze y'all with my density :-).
03:23.17K`zanTHanks again!
03:24.00K`zanHunm, seems to expect it's own user...
03:24.05K`zanl
03:25.46K`zanI think I got binary rather than source, checking....
03:26.09brlcaddefault configure will prepare to install into /usr/brlcad
03:26.24brlcadif you unpack and only find a usr dir, you've got a binary
03:26.40brlcadyou could copy usr/brlcad to /usr/brlcad and you'd be good to go
03:26.53brlcadhave to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path
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03:42.13K`zanbrlcad: Thanks, did that, LOTS of stuff in the bin directory (/me is a bit intimidated, but onward :-).
03:42.29K`zanOff to read!
03:44.28brlcadwelcome!
03:45.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (struct.h tie.c tie.h): support for unknown triangle number at tie_init()
03:45.58PKMOBILEwassap!
03:46.09TwingyEY DER
03:47.34brlcadTwingy: your intention to get those changes in in time for 7.6 or just commiting?
03:48.22Twingyjust commiting
03:48.57Twingyuntil I get a user community I won't be concerned whether changes make a specific release or not
03:49.04brlcadk
03:49.15Twingyso probly next couple releases will be same deal
03:49.33PKMOBILEhe wants some fans!
03:49.45brlcadif you can capture a screenshot or two of isst, I'll put it in the release notes
03:49.50TwingyI prefer air conditioning
03:50.10PKMOBILEso do i unfortunately we've been "saving electricity"
03:50.11TwingyI dunno if I'm ready for sceenies of it yet
03:50.38brlcadwell, this will be the release that announces it since it's the first to include it
03:51.18Twingyyea, but, I suspect nobody will care...
03:51.54brlcadpeople like pics
03:52.06brlcadand the notes are read, I get feedback on most releases
03:52.07Twingybut if you show them pics, they'll want to use it
03:52.10Twingyand it's not mature software
03:52.14Twingyit's expert friendly
03:52.24brlcadpeople know that or they're told
03:52.46Twingya video would be more telling...
03:52.52brlcadit's a point 0 release anyways, goes with the nature of monthly releases
03:52.55Twingywe could post an mpeg or something
03:53.10brlcada video would be, though you'd have to remake one
03:53.15Twingyalready made
03:53.40brlcadi doubt it's releasable without form 1'ing
03:53.45Twingycept lee wants to make his own version from my footage *shrug*
03:53.54Twingyso I'd poke him
03:54.10brlcadwhich vehicle was that?
03:54.16Twingystryker
03:54.21brlcadheh, yeah
03:54.41TwingyI could model a box
03:54.45Twingyand fly around it :)
03:54.56Twingyit'd compliment blender
03:54.58brlcador your boat thing :)
03:55.02brlcador the truck
03:55.05Twingyhrm, that reminds me
03:55.11TwingyI need to test the boat again..
03:55.32brlcadi need to press the air force again on their models
03:55.40brlcadsome of those are silly to not release
06:12.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/isst_python.c: dump is now save. added a load command. both have verbose output.
06:29.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/master.c libtie/tie.c): investigating tie->free()
06:51.55K`zanNigth all
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07:46.56PKMOBILEtime to do domain registrations again
07:47.12PKMOBILEdont want any darn squatters taking the osgaming one
07:48.15PKMOBILEguess ill do that tomorrow
07:48.19PKMOBILEgnight world!
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16:00.03docelicgood day
16:12.23brlcadday good
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18:45.52lih82hello everyone
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18:49.57prasad_sean
18:50.21lih82whois prasad_
18:50.24lih82oops
18:51.05lih82sorry, I was looking for help in compiling brlcad to mac os x 64-bit
18:53.56prasad_np
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20:34.55brlcadlih: hello
20:35.55brlcadsorry, I was away .. probably writing an e-mail to you if you're who I think you are
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21:00.41lihhi Sean
21:00.49lihI just got your e-mail
21:00.55lihI am reading it right now
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21:16.07brlcadhello docelic, how goes it
21:16.34docelichowdy'
21:16.45docelicquite fine, reading up some bits for tomorrow
21:17.01docelichow about you?
21:17.16brlcadpretty good
21:17.23brlcadtaking the day off is always nice ;)
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23:01.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh:
23:01.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: add support for manual pages. brl-cad's gfdl documentation is actually
23:01.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: dual-licensed so customize the comment block to include that detail. less and
23:01.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: other pagers that recognize and auto-format manpages don't work if comment is
23:01.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: first, so make the comment block come after the .TH
23:07.25Twingyprasad, lisa was asking where you were today
23:09.28docelicwho's prasad ?:)
23:09.45Twingya co-worker
23:10.47doceliclol a funny name.. in Croatian, word "prasad" is a singular for a group of pigs...
23:11.01docelic(no offense anyone, of course ;)
23:17.09brlcadheh
23:17.31brlcadi'm sure he'll be glad to know that tid bit of information
23:17.51docelic;-)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050907

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050907

00:06.34*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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03:25.43Twingyhttp://69.250.254.246/~justin/t62_path5000.jpg
03:26.33Twingyhrmph, a bottom chunk is missing
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04:46.47Twingy"One guy I know plugs his Honda hybrid into a windmill for power," Kroushl says. "It costs him practically nothing to drive."
05:00.59PKMOBILEahhh the annual coughing up of dough so squatters dont take my domains
05:21.27Twingydomain names
06:44.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: ignore manpage .SH COPYRIGHT lines
07:58.49PKMOBILEmy all time favorite is nesgamer.net but im not interested in doing another gaming website :-P
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14:08.04brlcadall hail the ori
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14:27.58*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
14:36.22*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
14:36.22*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
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17:20.53*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
17:37.11*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@ri01-111.dialin.iskon.hr)
18:05.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: fixed.
19:40.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: new and improved blender exporter, 98% fat free.
21:42.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
21:42.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: Needed an extern of strsep for Irix where we're using our own strsep
21:42.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: (hidden in libsysv)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050908

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050908

00:19.36Twingyhrm
00:19.39Twingyopteron build problems
00:19.46TwingyMaking all in db
00:19.47Twingy../src/conv/asc2g axis.asc axis.g
00:19.47Twingy../src/conv/asc2g boolean-ops.asc boolean-ops.g
00:19.47Twingy../src/conv/asc2g castle.asc castle.g
00:19.47Twingy../src/conv/asc2g cornell.asc cornell.g
00:19.47Twingy../src/conv/asc2g cray.asc cray.g
00:19.49TwingyFloating point exception (core dumped)
00:19.50*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@66.15.214.167)
00:19.51Twingy*** Error code 136
00:19.53TwingyFloating point exception (core dumped)
00:19.55Twingy*** Error code 136
00:19.57TwingyFloating point exception (core dumped)
00:20.03Twingy*** Error code 136
00:20.05TwingyFloating point exception (core dumped)
00:20.07Twingy*** Error code 136
00:20.10TwingyFloating point exception (core dumped)
00:20.12Twingy*** Error code 136
00:20.15Twingy5 errors
00:20.17Twingy*** Error code 1
00:20.19Twingy1 error
00:32.35brlcadnice
00:32.50brlcadthis the new box?
01:10.32Twingyyah
01:10.37Twingyany clue what that's about?
01:13.17silvap_i love coughing up blood
01:13.18brlcadi'd need a debugger
01:13.24silvap_so did lisa fire me yet?
01:13.29brlcadsilvap_: taste like chicken?
01:13.45Twingysilva, she only fires employees that cough up blood
01:14.10brlcadsilvap_: no, but there are 15 cuban refugees in your office now
01:14.11Twingyso... it's not mono?
01:14.24silvap_apparently not
01:14.39silvap_i was taken down by unknown bacteria
01:14.41Twingyyou been taste testing anthrax again?
01:14.49Twingyhrm, ed is taking antibiotics
01:15.13brlcadgotta stop putting things in your mouth that aren't food :)
01:15.13Twingywonder if the two are linked
01:15.20silvap_im on antibiotics too
01:15.26silvap_two in fact
01:15.28Twingymaybe it was that cheese I gave you
01:15.35silvap_it was
01:15.45silvap_in fact ull be hearing from my lawyer soon
01:15.46Twingythen my plan worked
01:15.55brlcadprobably 3 year old pieces of toast falling out of the toaster
01:16.01Twingyhehehe
01:16.13Twingyold than the animal crackers
01:16.16Twingy*older
01:16.37Twingywhere is libwdb
01:16.38silvap_i plan on coming to the office tomorrow
01:16.44Twingyyou've got a wall now
01:16.49Twingyso we can quarantine your ass
01:16.54silvap_woot
01:16.59silvap_is there a door?
01:17.09Twingythat's what the trash bags are for
01:17.11brlcadsrc/libwdb
01:18.01Twingyhrm
01:18.09Twingymaybe I'll comment out db stuff
01:18.09silvap_brlcad, create the project yet?
01:18.20silvap_ive got plans for a n level decision tree
01:18.24silvap_an*
01:18.25brlcadTwingy: I've seen that before, a long time ago
01:18.47Twingyhrm
01:18.50brlcadit that fails, rt aint gonna work
01:19.00TwingyI know, I just wanna compile g-adrt
01:19.04brlcadi think it's a machine.h define
01:19.13brlcadso cd src/conv and make g-adrt
01:19.25Twingyah nm, just got it installed
01:20.09brlcadsilvap_: i aint forgotten
01:20.09Twingyah grumble cakes
01:20.11brlcadbut I aint done it yet either
01:20.25brlcadi was offline for like 5 days
01:21.14Twingyis lee still making weird noises?
01:22.08Twingyprasad, $20 and I'll make you an account on this opteron machine
01:22.16Twingy:)
02:32.19Twingy1.5 million rays / sec on 1 core
02:33.59Twingyso effectively 6M/sec on a single box
02:34.27Twingyhrm, upwards of 30fps @ 512x384, not bad
02:34.55Twingyshould be 30-40 fps @ 640x480 on both
14:21.33*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
14:21.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
15:12.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Fixes for overlap-only calculations. Improvements to the man page.
15:27.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: Mods for windows port
15:30.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fb_generic.c fb_log.c if_ogl_win32.c if_remote.c tcl.c): Mods for windows port
15:45.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (clip.c dm-ogl_win.c dm_obj.c): Mods for windows port
15:49.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/mged/utility1.c: bu_opt??? declared in bu.h
15:51.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: Mods to use nirt from librt
15:56.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (facedef.c inside.c edarb.c edsol.c): Mods to use rt_arb_calc_planes from librt
15:58.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/mged/rect.c: fb_refresh declared in fb.h
16:02.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/mged/mater.c: rt_material_head and rt_insert_color are declared in mater.h
16:10.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (11 files): Mods for windows port
16:12.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/ (8 files): Mods for windows port
16:15.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: Documented -N option but not so much that people will start to use it.
16:17.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/generic/itcl_cmds.c itk/generic/itk_cmds.c): Mods to split large strings into smaller ones for compilation, then concat at runtime
16:19.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (QuadDisplay.tcl Display.tcl): Add methods for rtarea and rtweight
16:19.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Drawable.tcl: Minor mods
16:21.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/win/tkWinMenu.c: Add code for double-bar
16:23.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/ (22 files in 8 dirs): Mods for windows port
16:24.51*** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=a8b0a00f@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:25.06IngManHi
16:25.12IngManAlguien que hable español
16:29.12brlcadclaro
16:29.28brlcadque tal?
16:36.39IngManlo que pasa es que tengo unas preguntas
16:36.53brlcadok, dale
16:37.02IngManlisto para dibujar, brlcad es muy bueno, no necesito mas
16:37.31brlcadglad to hear it
16:37.39brlcadgracias
16:37.46brlcadpues que es la pregunta ;)
16:38.05IngManel problema es cuando trato de usarlo para diseño, cosas como volumen, linea media, distancias y esas cosas no se como usarlas, o es que no tiene esas herramientas
16:39.35IngManhay algun comando que me devuelva el volumen del solido que estoy trabajando
16:40.15brlcadsi
16:40.20brlcadrtweight
16:40.20IngMancual
16:40.39IngMany para acotar que usas usted
16:40.46brlcadoo, el volumen
16:41.52IngManlongitudes
16:43.26brlcadah, bueno, depende
16:43.54brlcadhay varias comandos
16:43.55IngMan???
16:44.21brlcadnirt y  rtshot para empezar
16:45.23brlcadtiran un rayo y dan informacion de los objectos
16:46.25brlcadrtweight calcula el peso, el centro de figura, y el volumen
16:47.17brlcadtienes que usar un .density tabla de la densidad
16:47.58IngMany para hacer planos con vistas y dodo eso, como lo acoto
16:50.44brlcadaqui es un .density para comenzar  http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/.density
16:51.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/asc2g/asc2g.dsp: Initial check-in
16:51.37IngMandonde encuentro mas informacion de esto
16:53.15brlcadrtedge produces imagenes con lineas al borde
16:53.30brlcadhay manpages por todo los comandos
16:53.36brlcadman rtweight
16:53.43brlcadman rtedge
16:54.06brlcad(en ingles, por supuesto..)
16:54.30IngManpor lo menos cuando lo leo lo enrtiendo jaja
16:54.38brlcad(traducciones are very welcome!) :)
16:54.52brlcadjeje
16:55.04IngMandeberiamos hacer un proyectico de traducciones
16:55.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/g2asc/g2asc.dsp: Initial check-in
16:55.29IngMany traduccir los documentos o hacer unos basados en esos
16:55.50brlcadsi.. he quierdo hacer un distribucion en español
16:56.12IngManhagamosle,
16:56.20brlcad:)
16:57.05IngManseguro, regalame tu mail y estamos en contacto
16:57.14IngMany la sacamos
16:57.18brlcadsabes programar?
16:57.23IngMansi
16:57.27brlcadque bien :)
16:58.38brlcadlo mande en privado
16:59.07IngManpero no llego
16:59.27brlcaddebes tener un "tab" que dice brlcad
16:59.37brlcaden rojo quiza
16:59.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/tclsh/tclsh.dsp: Initial check-in
17:00.15IngMandale de nuevo
17:01.32brlcadlo tienes?
17:01.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/tkimg/tkimg.dsp: Initial check-in
17:01.55IngManNo yo te envie el mio, No ????
17:02.02brlcadnope :)
17:02.20brlcadoooh...
17:02.21brlcad13:00 -!- Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a
17:02.24brlcad<PROTECTED>
17:02.31brlcadel nuevo limitacion..
17:02.38brlcadperate
17:02.49*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
17:05.18IngManNo me llega nada
17:05.24brlcadheh
17:05.25brlcadta bien
17:05.27brlcadmorrison
17:05.32brlcadat  brlcad
17:05.34brlcaddot org ;)
17:13.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/librt/librt.dsp: Initial check-in
17:14.08IngManlisto
17:14.16IngManque quieres tu con el manual
17:18.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/ (34 files in 34 dirs): Initial check-in
17:21.13brlcadbueno, lo que piensa sera mas util..
17:22.05brlcadme imagino que traduciendo un comando o mged o los documentos (como los que estan en http://brlcad.org)
17:24.54IngMantu eres ingeniero
17:26.27IngMano aque te dedicas
17:27.15brlcad:)
17:27.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/wish/wish.dsp: Initial check-in
17:27.48IngManespara saber en que estamos deacuerdo y en que no
17:28.10brlcaddepende en lo que te interesa mas.. pienso que los documentos serán má util para empezar
17:28.41IngMansi pero me parece que esos ejemplos no son muy de ingerieria
17:28.56IngManmas bien parecen de diseño grafico o algo asi
17:29.25brlcadthat would work too
17:29.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/zlibtcl/zlibtcl.dsp: Initial check-in
17:29.53brlcadsi, ejemplos de uso para casos especificos
17:30.02IngManmas de ingerieria
17:30.09brlcadquieres hacer eso.. haga eso
17:30.29IngManpero se supone que lo vamos hacer entre  los 2 o no
17:31.11brlcadsi, me interesa .. great idea
17:31.51IngManOk
17:32.06IngManque ideas tienes tu
17:32.13brlcadsolo no lo he puesto una tanda de atencion ni pensamiento todavia en la mejor manera de empezar
17:32.46brlcadthere's just so much that could be done, all good
17:33.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/tkstub/tkstub.dsp: Initial check-in
17:34.17IngManY tu que haces
17:34.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/tkimgpng/tkimgpng.dsp: Initial check-in
17:34.51IngManA que te dedics
17:36.15brlcadsoy el lider del open source proyecto
17:36.44IngManQue bien
17:36.54brlcad"el arquitecto de la base" ?
17:37.07IngManpero me refiero a que profesion tienes
17:37.57Twingy_lavar los platinos
17:38.17IngManyo estudio ingenieria mecanica, y por eso es que te preguntaba las otras herramientas
17:38.28brlcadarcquitecto de software, programmacion, desenyo
17:38.56Twingy_lavar los platinos
17:39.47brlcadproject management and planning tambien
17:39.59IngManpor lo que estudio mecanica es que te decia del enfoque que le queremos dar
17:40.01Twingy_natalie imbrugllibaidhgaia
17:40.26silvap_hasbeen
17:40.51Twingy_prasad, aka dances with pigs, shouldn't you be coding muves and not wasting time on chat channels?
17:41.00silvap_john kicked me out
17:41.02silvap_so im home
17:41.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/brlcad/.cvsignore: Initial check-in
17:41.15Twingy_ah, in that case, carry on
17:41.34brlcadIngMan: la programa fue construido para ingenieria mecanica y deseño de vehiculos militares
17:42.22Twingy_hrm, I'm going to benchmark cas2.5@400 vs cas2@333 soon
17:43.06IngMansi eso lo sabia
17:43.11Twingy_I have no soda left :(
17:43.20IngManpero no encontraba las herramientas que te decia
17:43.45brlcadno encontraste rtweight/rtarea/rtedge?
17:43.53Twingy_I think that bulgogi gave me heart burn
17:43.57brlcadno estan en mged, estan fuera de mged
17:44.10Twingy_MJED
17:44.17Twingy_:D
17:44.33brlcadmulti juice extrapolation device
17:45.09Twingy_multiplexing joint eggnog detector
17:46.07IngManno he probado por que no estoy en la casa
17:46.30Twingy_su casa es mi casa
17:47.30brlcadIngMan: ahh, ta bien
17:47.45Twingy_my computer is posessed
17:47.59brlcadignora el mono alli que dice tonterias ;)
17:48.17IngMano leo
17:48.18IngMansi eso veo
17:49.10Twingy_bon jovi is the gayest cowboy ever
17:50.08silvap_that must be one heck of a heartburn
17:51.29Twingy_yah
17:51.38Twingy_the soda helped alot
17:52.02IngManTe envio un mail con las ideas que tengo para el manual
17:52.12brlcadIngMan: he pensado un poco en lo que necesitariamos para producir mged en varias lenguas, lo más facil sera tener un archivo de las palabras/frases para cada lengu. tendriamos que cambiar como mged usa titulos y labels, un poco complicado
17:52.31IngMany hay vemos que hacemos
17:52.46brlcado pudieramos empezar con los herramientas primero que mged usa como comandos
17:53.01IngMany cuantas personas estan trabajando contigo
17:54.03IngManen ese proyecto
17:54.29brlcadhmm..
17:55.49brlcadhay como 8-10 developers en total y como 3-4 participando activamente en cualquier mes
17:56.24brlcadcomo vente involucrada de vez en cuando
17:57.05IngManyo no se si sea tan buen programador como para entrar en el "selecto grupo", pero tengo ganas y muchas ideas
17:57.48brlcadganas y ideas son todo lo que se necesita, lo demas se puede aprender ;)
17:58.06IngManlisto
17:58.14brlcadtampoco tendrias que ser un programador
17:58.32IngMante mando un mail para ponernos de acuerdo como hacemos el manual
17:58.40brlcadsiempre hay mucho que hacer ;)
17:59.06brlcadta bien
17:59.32IngMany que programas PROPIETARIOS sabes usr
18:00.39brlcadpro-engineer y unigraphics principalmente
18:01.13IngMany de elementos finitos que usas
18:02.44brlcadno he usado mucho para elementos finitos aunque tengo acceso a casi todas
18:02.57IngMany libres que usas
18:03.04IngManhas probado Z88 o Impact
18:03.12IngManson bien interesantes
18:03.22IngManCalculix
18:04.13brlcadel año que viene tiene financiamiento asignado al analisis de elementos finitos
18:04.39IngManBRLCAD
18:05.16brlcadsi
18:05.34IngManque bueno eso me anima mas a trabajar con ustedes
18:06.06IngManComo es tu nombtre
18:06.07brlcadno el analisis directamente quiza, pero al conversion y creacion de los meshes
18:06.22brlcadpor lo menos
18:06.30IngMansi para que hacer cosas que ya estan hechas
18:06.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/asc2g/.cvsignore: Initial check-in
18:06.55brlcadexacto
18:07.13IngManComo es tu nombre
18:07.29brlcadMe llamo Sean
18:07.37brlcady el tuyo?
18:07.53IngManMucho gusto Sean, yo me llamo Manuel
18:08.02brlcadtambien
18:08.27IngMante mando un mail con las ideas para el manual
18:10.18IngManListo quedamos asi, ya tengo que irmen
18:10.29IngManChao, Bye
18:10.35brlcadesta bien, ha sido un placer mio
18:10.51IngManigual for me
18:10.56brlcadciao
18:22.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/all/.cvsignore: Initial check-in
18:35.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/ (40 files in 40 dirs): Initial check-in
18:36.53*** join/#brlcad brad2901 (i=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901)
18:37.01*** part/#brlcad brad2901 (i=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901)
19:39.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (374 files in 17 dirs): Initial check-in
20:18.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c): Stop refining grid if overlaps have been found.
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20:51.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (39 files in 5 dirs): Initial check-in
20:54.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Initial check-in
21:00.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/zlibtcl/zlibtcl.dsp: Not needed
21:02.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/zlibtcl/.cvsignore: No needed
21:04.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/pngtcl/ (.cvsignore pngtcl.dsp): Not needed
21:07.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/brlcad/brlcad.dsw: Remove unneeded projects
21:08.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/tkimgpng/tkimgpng.dsp: Mods to use libz and libpng
21:11.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/ (rt/rt.dsp rtcheck/rtcheck.dsp rtedge/rtedge.dsp): Minor mods
21:17.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (204 files in 5 dirs): Initial check-in
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21:59.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
21:59.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: adrt now uses a mesh map, no properties embedded in adrt file. Transformation matrices being applied in unpack
21:59.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: again.
22:23.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (include/config_win.h HACKING NEWS configure.ac): Release 7.6.0 Wahoo!
22:28.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (HACKING NEWS ChangeLog): Release 7.6.0 Wahoo!!!
23:48.18Twingygrumble smacks
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050909

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050909

01:47.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: next release should be 7.6.2
01:48.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: template for 7.6.2, currently 7.6.1
01:49.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): bump to 7.6.1 after tagging/releasing 7.6.0
02:11.47*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
03:30.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (260 files in 34 dirs): add the standard documentation gfdl/gpl license header and copyright/distribution notice
03:31.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libcommon/pack.c libcommon/unpack.c scripts/adrt.py): fixed python exporter.
04:18.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (61 files in 19 dirs): BRL-CAD not BRL/CAD
05:08.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 10 dirs): consistency, BRL-CAD not BRL CAD
05:51.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (29 files in 8 dirs): use BRL-CAD instead of brl-cad if only to be at least internally consistent and serve good example
09:44.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (36 files in 16 dirs): BRL-CAD not BRLCAD, consistency
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19:26.10*** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=a8b0a00d@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:26.18IngManHi
19:26.24IngManHi Sean
20:02.18*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
20:39.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: generates a map file now.
21:46.07*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable084.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca)
21:48.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: tra in console mode outputs a warning about mged_players
22:06.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed 64/32 bit network communications bug in tienet.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050910

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050910

02:09.32Twingyhrm
02:09.42Twingymy precioussss
02:11.44Twingyhrm, 52 days till I move
02:13.21Twingy645,277 rays/sec on a 2.4ghz xeon, and 1,048,576 rays/sec on a 2ghz opteron
02:13.25Twingyhrm, that number looks funny
02:13.34Twingyhah
02:13.37Twingyit's 1024^2
02:13.45Twingythat's highly amusing
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13:04.47MaloeranHehe Twingy, I wasn't kidding about the floating point crunching power of the Opterons, and how they flow through unpredictable branch with no penalty
13:05.45MaloeranI hope this benchmark was ran on 64 bits too, with a -mtune=opteron so that branches are silently changed into conditional move instructions ( unlike on all Intel chips, conditional moves are as fast as regular moves )
17:21.26Twingyhrm, a 1.5% speedup
19:13.28*** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (n=CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)
19:17.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 3 dirs): stuff to fix 32/64 communication
19:22.41Twingyaha
19:25.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/master.c: 32/64 comms fixed, time to fix observer-fu
19:32.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/ (master/master.c observer/observer.c): 32/64 observer comms should work
19:43.00Twingyhrm
19:43.10Twingythat's highly amusing
19:47.56Twingyapparently I've only been running at 50% speed the whole time I've been doing distributed stuff
19:48.15Twingysomething with freebsd's threading I think
19:52.36*** join/#brlcad iSteve (n=isteve@isteve.bofh.cz)
19:55.17Twingyhrm
20:18.58Twingymmm 12.25 mil rays/sec
20:20.11Twingyhrm, might be able to get that up to 14 mil/sec by tonight
21:18.01*** join/#brlcad cad478 (n=43b0389f@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:18.23Twingyback
21:52.11Twingysean, you alive?
22:10.57Twingyhrm
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050911

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050911

03:27.41MaloeranThat's strange, what kind of threading problem was it?
04:11.14Twingyplay yoot's tower?
04:30.33MaloeranNot yet still, some AD&D game consumed most of the day, I soon will
04:30.57Twingyheh
04:31.29Twingyyoot's seems to be a bit more challenging than the previous one, the locality of offices seems to be more sensitive to traffic and noise
04:32.24MaloeranExcellent, Sim Tower was way too easy
04:32.45Twingyyah
04:32.52Twingyeasy and loooong
04:33.01Twingytook forever to finish when I was playing it on my P133
04:33.06Twingyback in '95
04:33.25MaloeranAhah. It didn't take too long on the dual-mp, time was flying way too fast even in non-fast mode
04:33.31MaloeranFaster than I could spend anyway
04:33.45Twingyheh, that certainly makes it quick
05:42.29*** join/#brlcad Erroneous (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
05:44.24*** join/#brlcad Erroneous (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
05:44.28Twingyo.O
14:21.25*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@ri01-150.dialin.iskon.hr)
16:16.08silvap_yoot's tower came b4 sim tower, no?
18:30.25Twingyafter
18:40.14Twingywow, I've got a little test app here that shows how sucky performance is when multiple threads reading from the same buffer
18:40.53MaloeranOf course, the processors keep trashing each other's cache
18:40.59Twingyyah :|
18:41.10Twingybut this is a 64 byte array
18:41.17Twingyit should always live in cache o.O
18:42.30Twingythat explains why my ray-tracer with 4 threads performans at half the speed as 4 separate instances
18:42.49TwingyI'm getting same results on linux,bsd (xeon,opteron)
18:42.51MaloeranIf it was up to the programmer to deal with coherency of the caches, we really could scale motherboards to large amount of processors
18:43.02MaloeranAh I see
18:43.03Twingythat's not the problem
18:43.09Twingyit's the memory
18:43.20Twingymy stryker model sucks up 1.3GB of memory when fully loaded
18:43.40Twingyand unless I have 2GB of ram per cpu on the mobo a bajillion processors doesn't make it any better
18:44.05Twingywhich is why I got this opteron machine with 8GB of ram per box
18:44.12Twingyso I could have (4) 2GB instances going
18:44.34Twingywhich is why I'm seeing performance soar
18:45.00TwingyI mean this one opteron machine with 4 instances is out performing the entire cluster cause each node only has 2GB
18:45.16MaloeranAhah
18:45.40Twingynow if each node has 4GB of ram (prohibitively expensive at the team, each node has 6 ram slots)
18:45.50Twingythen I'd be seing twice the performance out of each one
18:46.11Twingybased on these findings I'm half tempted to rip all of the threading code out
18:46.22MaloeranI don't see the problem with multiple threads|processors sharing the same banks, although Opterons do have per-processor banks with faster access
18:46.26Twingycause my application is omfg fast and cache-coherent
18:46.33Twingyit's not benefiting from threads hardly at all
18:46.49Twingyare you getting linear speed-ups with threading?
18:46.55MaloeranYou have to garantee processors won't be stepping on each other's feet, regarding read and write to their cache
18:47.18MaloeranI... have no idea, I haven't even tested on the dual-mp
18:47.22Twingyah
18:47.36Twingyyou got a demo with dynamic number of threads I can specify with no graphics output handy?
18:47.41Twingyjust the text?
18:47.57MaloeranHum, give me 2 minutes
18:47.59Twingybtw, when you ship another demo
18:48.10Twingymake the fps output a:
18:48.18Twingyprintf("fps: %d\r", fps);
18:48.20Twingyfflush(stdout);
18:48.24MaloeranI'm deep into rewriting large chunks of the scene prep, it might take a bit
18:48.32Twingythat's what cvs is for :)
18:48.40Twingyso you can checkout an older stable version
18:48.40MaloeranSo noted, fbsd doesn't naturally flush on \n
18:49.05Twingyuse cvs damnit :)
18:49.42Twingyugh
18:49.43MaloeranYes, maybe I should :)
18:50.05MaloeranIt's for historical purposes, back to the castle days and our 300k rays per second
18:50.20Twingyyou should shove those into cvs in sequential order
18:51.58TwingyI'm boggled is doesn't shove this 64 byte array in cache
18:52.05TwingyIt's got a friggen 1MB of cache
18:55.18Twingyheh
18:55.30TwingyI'm causing system time to spike and user/wall time just plop along
18:56.39MaloeranI quickly modified the latest backup to use the first argument as number of threads
18:56.45Twingyk
18:56.56TwingyI'll benchmark on my opteron
18:57.06Twingyif I have linux abi going
18:57.12MaloeranRunning on 64 bits of course?
18:57.17Twingylet me see
18:57.28Twingyyah
18:57.35Twingy*should* work
18:57.57MaloeranAll right, that's an ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64
18:59.05TwingyELF binary type "0" not known.
18:59.20Twingy*shrug*
18:59.29Twingyguess it's not bsd friendly
18:59.53Twingyfor me here's how I do on threading
19:00.11Twingycompared to 100% performance on four separate threads
19:00.30Twingy1: 25%, 2: 15%, 3: 10%, 4: 5%
19:00.34Twingyin terms of performance gains
19:00.52Twingyso the 5 threaded version is 50 - 55% of 4 separate threads
19:00.58Twingyand the 4th thread buys you almost nothing
19:01.12Twingyso you really need 4 cpus
19:01.30Twingycause you'll probly see a nearly 2x performance gain with 2 threaded version
19:01.38Twingyso it won't tell you much
19:01.40MaloeranThat's for dual-xeons?
19:01.43Twingyopteron
19:01.49Twingy2core dual cpu
19:01.53MaloeranAh yes, dual core
19:01.58Twingyand xeon is slightly worse
19:02.04Twingybut more or less the same
19:02.26MaloeranDo each of your threads work on fairly distinct chunks of memory?
19:02.43Twingythey get a *chunk* of pixels to work on that are coherent
19:02.44MaloeranEspecially the write operations, they must not trash the other processors cache
19:02.51Twingythe writes are to distinct memory
19:03.04Twingythe reads are probly from common memory most of the time, (the triangle data)
19:03.05MaloeranNo problem there, I suppose the chunks are big enough
19:03.08Twingycause the rays are coherent
19:03.24Twingyso for 128x128 pixels
19:03.33Twingy4 threads will take on 128 pixel scan lines for now
19:03.39Twingy128x128 goes across the network
19:03.48Twingyand 4 threads gobble up a 128 pixel scanline at a time
19:03.54Twingy(all configurable in the environment file for the project)
19:03.59MaloeranCould it be a problem of synchronisation, mutexes and network I/O ?
19:04.02Twingythis is is an example, nothing is hard-wired
19:04.22TwingyI don't think so, cause I got a demo here that doesn't do any network i/o
19:04.36MaloeranI suppose the count of mutexes is very low too
19:04.39Twingyand the only thing a mutex is doing is locking to increment a variable (i++) then unlocking
19:04.52Twingyand after each mutex it does millions of computations
19:05.00Twingyso mutex should be neglidgible
19:05.05Twingyyes
19:05.11Twingymutex locking is in the 10's or 100's
19:05.16Twingycomputations in the loop are in the millions
19:05.18MaloeranIs this variable shared by all threads? How often does it increment?
19:05.26MaloeranAh.
19:05.27Twingy10 to 100 times
19:05.34Twingyit represents work units
19:05.40Twingywork unit index rather
19:05.45TwingyI am working on work unit 'i'
19:06.27Twingyan the 'work' is a float[16] array, where it does a random read from it (as happens in triangle ray-tracing from big triangle array) and does math on the value at float[...]
19:06.29Twingynow
19:06.44Twingyif I put a = array[rand....] in the loop
19:06.55Twingywhere it goes done millions of time, performance is horrible nasty omfg slow
19:07.04Twingyif I put it before the loop so it only gets called a few hundred times
19:07.11Twingythen performance is parallel
19:07.16Twingymore threads = more cpu
19:07.20Twingywhich is why for ray-tracing
19:07.24Twingyit's reall a mix of both
19:07.38Twingywhich is why we get 'some' performance, but it ramps down rather quickly
19:08.10MaloeranYes I get the picture
19:08.26Twingyso I'm curious if it's just me
19:08.36Twingyor if my conclusions are similiar in your case
19:08.51MaloeranWould you be able to run a 32 bits linux binary?
19:08.55TwingyI dunno
19:08.56Twingywe could try
19:09.01TwingyI don't think the 'speed' matters
19:09.06Twingyjust the threaded relationship
19:09.25Twingyin regards to performance
19:09.58MaloeranRight
19:10.27MaloeranI have been glancing over your code, I don't really see a potential problem, yet
19:10.45Twingyah, in the engine?
19:10.51Twingythe camera in libutil/camera.c
19:10.54Twingyis the threading
19:11.02Twingythe engine tie.c is the intersection code
19:11.12MaloeranI know ;)
19:11.14Twingyk :)
19:11.20Twingywhen is the last time you updated?
19:11.25TwingyI have been making changes left and right
19:11.34MaloeranIt might be up to a week old
19:11.37Twingyk
19:12.07MaloeranDid you try the 32 bits binary?
19:13.04Twingyanyway to remove sdl quickly?
19:13.14TwingyI don't think I have sdl installed for linux on freebsd
19:13.17MaloeranOops.
19:13.24MaloeranA moment.
19:13.28Twingyk
19:13.39Twingylooks like it should otherwise run though
19:17.45MaloeranAll right, download from same address
19:19.07Twingyyour printf still pours out pages and pages of numbers
19:19.08Maloeranand I forgot the fflush() :)
19:19.12Twingyheh
19:19.43MaloeranYou can set the number of threads by the first argument
19:19.49Twingyyep
19:20.20Twingycan you do the fflush thing?
19:20.35Twingydon't think my terminal is keeping up to speed
19:21.07MaloeranOkay... Give me a moment to re-do all the SDL removal :}
19:21.16Twingyyou just delete it?
19:21.39Twingythis is the part where you would've tagged a branch in cvs for me ;)
19:24.14MaloeranYou know... There is already a  fflush( stdout );  in there
19:24.31Twingyusing '\r' as the terminator?
19:24.44Twingy'\n' can't be there
19:24.53MaloeranOh?
19:25.05Twingy'\n' means new line
19:25.08Twingywe don't want a new line
19:26.30MaloeranFine, download again
19:26.35Twingyk :)
19:27.10Twingymuch better
19:27.32Twingy1: 14 fps
19:28.00Twingy2: 27 fps
19:28.29Twingy3: 37 fps
19:28.54Twingy4: 43 fps
19:29.26MaloeranFour processors to run 3 times faster than one, the loss is reasonable
19:29.38Twingyyah, it's pretty good I'd say
19:29.46Twingyhow are you threading?
19:29.48Twingyper scanline?
19:29.57MaloeranPer block of 32x32 pixels in what I sent you
19:30.09Twingyeach thread works on a block?
19:30.19MaloeranRight, and fetch the next block pending in queue once it's done
19:30.29Twingyk, that was my next step
19:30.39Twingyfor threading
19:30.47TwingyI think you want as little coherency as possible between threads
19:31.04Twingyotherwise you have threads doing reads from the same memory segment it seems
19:31.08Twingybut that *should* be in cache
19:31.14Twingybut
19:31.21MaloeranReads from the same segments aren't generally a problem, not a big one anyway
19:31.22Twingya thread has no idea if that data is current
19:31.27Twingyso I think in general it has to do a fresh read
19:31.35MaloeranIt doesn't trash the cache, it might just be a bit of a bottleneck on a memory bank
19:31.45Twingyright, but do you agree with my statement?
19:32.02MaloeranI don't see what you mean by "data being current"
19:32.14Twingythread 1 pulls from array[1234] at time interval X
19:32.21Twingythread 2 pulls from array[1234] at time interval Y
19:32.36Twingyhow does thread 2 know that array[1234] at time interval Y read the same data as interval X
19:32.48TwingyI doesn't... so I think it cannot rely on cache
19:33.03MaloeranIf no other processor has modified the data, it will remain in the processor's cache
19:33.26Twingyokie
19:33.45Twingywelp, let me try postage stamping the threaded work units like I'm already doing for the distributed compute nodes
19:34.08Twingy(I've done this before in previous experiments)
19:34.25Twingybut I never tested improvement of linearity of threads
19:34.43MaloeranMmhm, good luck.  Verify your writes especially, I suspect something is trashing the caches somewhere
19:35.04Twingypossibly
19:35.26TwingyI generate a ray, I fire the ray, the ray gets intersected against triangles, the result goes to the render method, render method shades a pixel, pixel gets shoved into a 128x128x3 buffer
19:35.36MaloeranWhere do threads pull their ray vectors from?
19:35.47Twingyeach thread has an instance of a ray object
19:38.13Twingyaccording to your single threaded performance, using your SSE stuff and optical bundle tricks you seem to be 7x faster than mine
19:39.13Twingyfor non-coherent path tracing stuff I think you're 1.5 - 2.0x faster
19:39.26Maloeran:) Not too bad, but the new scene analysis/preparation is still in the workshop
19:39.30Twingybut you don't have rays all the way through or doubled sided normals on
19:39.34Twingyk
19:39.58TwingyI've got a potential 15% performance improvement for optical rendering only I might drop in tonight
19:40.24Twingythat should inch me towards 2 mil/sec
19:40.40Twingyfor certain views, but on average about 1.5 mil/sec I think
19:40.53MaloeranI went to implement rays going through geometry with callbacks a few days ago, but it looked really messy to implement in the SSE path working in bundles
19:41.14Twingyyes
19:41.21Twingynow you see why I haven't done it yet
19:41.30Twingyor anyone has
19:41.38MaloeranI may well just support that for single rays, which is trivial, for now anyway
19:41.42Twingyyah
19:41.47Twingybtw
19:41.52TwingyI'm thinking about removing callbacks
19:42.02Twingyand just putting the intersection stack into the ray itself
19:42.13Twingyso if you fire a ray again with a used stack
19:42.18Twingyit'll just resume using the stack
19:42.30Twingyremoves an extra function call for optical rendering
19:42.34MaloeranWill this ray be able to change direction?
19:42.47Twingyhuh? of course you fire a new ray
19:43.07Twingya changed direction means generating a new ray for me
19:43.27MaloeranSo you could re-use the intersection point of a ray, as a source for new rays, exploiting the locality of rays
19:43.44Twingynot with a tree
19:43.59Twingywith a graph, sure
19:44.22Twingywhen I feel I've completely run out of tricks
19:44.27TwingyI might try the graph approach
19:44.39Twingybrb, gonna make a quick lunch
19:44.44MaloeranI think a shortcut would be possible, but in any case... yes, I believe a graph is much more appropriate :)
19:44.53Twingyfor path tracing, definetly
19:45.17Twingybut *ahem* lee wanted me to implement wald's paper *ahem*
19:45.27Twingyso I have to roll with that for now
19:45.35MaloeranFor any ray-tracing needs really, since a graph can both exploit coherency and locality
19:45.47Twingyjup
19:45.49Maloeran*nods* So I understood... Lee isn't here, is he? :p
19:45.55Twingyhe's polyspin
19:46.08Twingybrb, gonna make some lunch
20:04.26Twingyback
20:05.58MaloeranIf you are going to try a graph based technique, I still think a tetrahedron graph could be promising
20:06.13MaloeranNo sectors, no nodes, no triangle, a single primitive ; tetrahedrons
20:06.30Twingymaybe we can work on this together...
20:07.23Maloeran*nods* I still have a fairly long to-do list on my current design
20:07.45TwingyI'm sure this will be some ongoing research we'll be involved with for years to come
20:08.07Twingywe'll probly be 30 or so before this winds down
20:09.23MaloeranEheh, I wouldn't mind :), I haven't found a field that led to so interesting, mind boggling problems just waiting to be solved
20:09.46Maloerananother field, that is
20:10.46Twingythe only other thing I found nearly this interested was when I was working on my coil gun
20:11.18Twingyit was easy to see how years of research could be speant optimizing the efficiency of the energy transfer
20:12.15MaloeranEh I suppose, how did this project work out?
20:12.42TwingyI was able to get my single stage coil gun up to an efficiency of about 2% using off the shelf power supply capacitors and hand-wound litz wire
20:12.54Twingymax efficiency I've ever seen somone get out of single stage is 10%
20:13.03Twingyin research labs etc
20:13.03MaloeranHum :), I see
20:13.14MaloeranI have been thinking sporadically about AI since my early genetic experiments too, that's something I want to get back into, I have my ideas for a lower level approach to the problem
20:13.32MaloeranMuch closer to the fundamental definition of intelligence, nothing like faking it at high-level with neural networks
20:16.59MaloeranAny more clues on the threading performance issue?
20:17.09TwingyI'm still playing with my demo
20:17.15Twingyrecreating a base-model of what's going on
20:17.28Twingyand I'm seeing resonable performance from it
20:17.30Twingynear-linear
20:17.44Twingy16384 random accesses to a 16MB array distributed among 4 threads
20:17.52Twingydoing a billion iteration computation loop
20:18.13Twingyeach work unit is a random access
20:18.16MaloeranRead operations can't be the source of such a performance bottleneck
20:18.23Twingyindeed
20:23.38Twingyone thing you have to worry about with opterons is the hyper transport too
20:23.59Twingyit's a big bottle neck
20:27.11silvap_i swear i saw a reference to yoot saito's "yoot's tower" in the sim tower splash screen
20:30.59silvap_Maloeran, what sorta AI stuff have u done
20:32.14MaloeranLong ago, genetic algorithms to build up an AI for a primitive strategy game of some sort
20:32.40MaloeranIt played for months against itself on a P3, results were deceiving ( the learning pace was below my expectations )
20:33.29silvap_hehe cool
20:34.13silvap_was it coupled with an ANN or was the state space too large?
20:35.00MaloeranIt wasn't, it really was a straight genetic algorithm
20:35.21silvap_ah
20:35.35Twingyi.e brute force :)
20:35.47MaloeranOn a Pentium 3! :)
20:36.01Twingymeh, that's not that long ago
20:36.09Twingynow if it were a P133 ...
20:37.10MaloeranPentium 3 733mhz, running all nights on my father's computer, it was high end back then
20:52.48Twingygetting closer to the problem
20:53.09Twingyjust replaced my ray intersection with a loop that does 1024 floating multiplies
20:53.26Twingy100% 75% 25% 19% efficiency
20:53.35Twingyso it's definetly not the engine
20:53.46Twingyso I think I know what to fix now
20:56.01MaloeranYour engine's code did seem quite fine on this aspect.  Would it be the callbacks?
21:06.02Twingyno, I think it's the semaphore usage in my camera
21:06.17TwingyI'm going running now, so I'll investigate in an hour
21:07.19Twingyand indeed it was
21:07.50TwingyI must've been pinching  a nerve or something on the soft one
21:10.47MaloeranEh, good
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050912

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050912

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14:54.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (master_fetch.sh master_prep.sh slave_build.sh): Scripts to support new architecture for nightly regression tests
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15:02.47IngManHi
16:12.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_prep.sh: fixed typo in if block
16:58.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_fetch.sh: Now getting the latest and greatest by doing a developer fetch instead of anonymous fetch
18:14.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
18:14.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: camera uses threads more efficiently.
18:14.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: isst master locks the frames down so observer doesn't get mid-render frames.
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22:39.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 4 dirs): screen 2x magnification for low res contexts (F1 F2).
23:10.47silvap_finally sees the light
23:58.03brlcadmole man?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050913

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050913

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02:26.31Twingyhrm
02:31.51brlcadcrashes with O2 or O3, but not O
02:32.17Twingymesh packer isn't happy on amd64
02:32.34brlcadO gives wierd performance results, but correct
02:32.45Twingylibpthread?
02:32.49Twingyoh, n/m
02:33.08brlcadnah, -pthread and -lpthread are behaving identically
02:40.11brlcadahh
02:41.33brlcadIf I follow it correctly, it's apparently a kernel bug, fixed in the latest 6 current
02:41.44Twingygood
02:41.52Twingymaybe libthr will be too
02:42.34brlcadit talks about libthr too
02:42.45Twingyurl?
02:42.49brlcadthe threading libs apparently provoke the problem
02:43.12brlcadstart here, http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-threads/2005-May/003040.html
02:43.18brlcadgoes on for quite a while
02:43.48Twingygimme the part on libthr
02:43.56brlcadhttp://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-threads/2005-May/003061.html
02:44.05Twingythx
02:44.08brlcadthat's about 20 messasges into it after they figured out the bug
02:44.30Twingymeh
02:44.58brlcadthough it seems to think libthr 'should' work
02:47.13brlcadhmm.. that's a very good mailing list
02:48.02brlcad"fork hang in child for (-lc_r & -lthr)" is that the problem you saw?
02:49.29Twingyhang? no, random micro stalls
02:49.36Twingyerik has a nice graph of the problem he generated from shiva
02:49.53Twingylibthr and the problem goes away
02:52.43silvap_who are u gonna call for bail money?
02:54.10Twingythe ghost busters
02:55.33silvap_use openthreads
02:55.43brlcadpatches welcome
02:56.27Twingyopen threads aren't available
02:57.01silvap_use hp-ux
02:57.25Twingyno thanks
02:58.58brlcadaren't available?
02:59.09brlcadit should work on amd64 bsd
02:59.31Twingythey're not in /usr/local/lib
02:59.37brlcadat least it's in ports with changelog entries saying it was tested on amd64
02:59.50brlcadwell ya, you'd have to install
02:59.59brlcadand rewrite code
03:00.11Twingyis it posix compliant?
03:00.17silvap_duh
03:00.22Twingythen I shouldn't have to
03:00.26brlcadyou don't know much about openthreads it sounds :)
03:00.46Twingynever heard of it until yesterday
03:00.52brlcadah
03:01.00brlcadbeen around for a while
03:01.04brlcadnot bad actually
03:01.05Twingywhere would I have seen it?
03:01.11silvap_OSG
03:01.12Twingyslashdot?
03:01.32TwingyI'm not familiar with OSG
03:01.42silvap_im getting windows vista super duper edition
03:01.51silvap_beta 234265753
03:01.54brlcadused by several projects, osg is probably the biggest
03:02.02brlcadat least biggest well known
03:02.03Twingywhere would I have heard about OSG?
03:02.11brlcadjeez, man
03:02.16silvap_n00b
03:02.22brlcadwell, I think they go around knocking on people's doors
03:02.43Twingy*shrug* when you code 24/7 instead of skimming freshmeat and slashdot all day you don't see these things
03:02.47brlcadyou would  have heard about OSG in several places
03:02.56brlcadthey have been on /. a couple times
03:03.04TwingyI probly skipped over it then
03:03.04brlcadas well as at siggraph for the past several years
03:03.09silvap_how about uh.. siggraph
03:03.16TwingyI haven't bounced around in the opengl stuff at siggraph since 2002
03:03.20brlcadthey had several sessions this year
03:03.45Twingyso I probly wouldn't have been exposed to it
03:04.16silvap_u r fired
03:04.20Twingyjust like I stopped writing html when 1.1 was new, I stopped writing opengl when 1.2 came out
03:04.56Twingyand I'll probly move onto something else then watch raytracing take off and get nagged about all the ray-tracing tools out there I don't know about *shrug*
03:06.10Twingyof course I may be at a different job by then, and people will think I'm just clueless
03:06.20silvap_u done packing for tour de riverside?
03:06.20Twingysince they will have only known me for a year or two
03:06.35brlcadthere are lots of packages I don't use or write code for that I know well enough about, just a matter of caring more than nil that there are others around the world doing stuff to :)
03:06.41Twingyum, I'll begin in october
03:07.18Twingybrlcad: yah, that helps, but I don't spend any time *trying* other packages, but instead focus research on my own :|
03:08.00Twingycoding 12-16 hours a day I still find it's inadequate time for a day's worth of coding
03:08.38silvap_thought u were backpacking tomorrow
03:08.38brlcadall about balance
03:08.48TwingyI am
03:08.52Twingyoh, I thought you meant for the house
03:08.56silvap_maybe i mean tour de apg
03:09.23brlcadhave to pay attention some or you end up doing strange things like making *cough*tcl*cough your core scripting language
03:09.26Twingyum, I've got a couple cans of dinner in the pack, 2 nalgen bottles and some cloths
03:09.31brlcador reinventing the wheel unnecessarily
03:09.41brlcadrehashing old problems that others solved long ago
03:09.58silvap_yea like java/swing *cough*exposed*cough*
03:10.11brlcadsee now that's paying too much attention probably :)
03:10.17Twingyyep, I don't think that's been the case, lee seems to push that idea hard, but tends to only focus on research papers instead of doing 'new' research
03:10.43Twingyi.e. if it's not in a paper, don't do it, you're wrong
03:11.16silvap_u realize to create a single dlg box in M3 (which can be done in 1 line of java/swing), i have to go thru exposed and it's ....
03:11.19silvap_its*
03:11.34brlcadsilvap_'s not bitter
03:11.45silvap_of course not
03:12.12Twingywhen that project dies I'll bang something out in a few months to pick up the slack
03:12.13silvap_i need to be emancipated
03:12.50Twingyso emancipate yourself
03:12.58Twingystart writing a tool that the analysts need
03:13.06silvap_the underground railroad leads nowhere
03:13.10Twingywhen they start using it and relying on it you are emancipated
03:13.18Twingythat's cause you're not looking hard enough.
03:13.33Twingyhave you actually gone over to meet the analysts?
03:13.42silvap_cpl of sab
03:13.58Twingymaybe you can come with me over there tommorrow and I'll introduce you to a few people
03:14.21silvap_hmm that works
03:14.34Twingythen you can pick your underground project
03:22.19Twingywow
03:22.29Twingyif(matrixind >= 0) {
03:22.30Twingy...
03:22.34Twingy}else{
03:22.35Twingy...
03:22.36Twingy}
03:22.42Twingymatrixind is -1
03:22.54Twingyand it's not going to the } else {
03:22.57Twingyo.O
03:26.04brlcadI'm seeing the same mess here
03:26.25brlcadvery weird stuff going on
03:26.47Twingymaybe it needs rebooted :|
03:26.56brlcadit's making every call twice
03:27.04Twingyhow about I reboot it
03:27.05brlcadsometimes it just happens to work
03:28.02Twingyk
03:34.20Twingyinteresting, reboot had no effect
03:41.55Twingyoh, heh
03:46.29Twingyaha, problem fixed
03:47.12Twingymmm 1.7 mil rays/sec
03:47.33Twingyhehe, this ray # is so relative
03:47.39Twingy800k 2mil... wee
03:49.15Twingymm, that was some good chicken
03:50.49Twingyprasad, since we did that benchmark on your 2.2ghz opteron and got 300k/sec
03:50.56TwingyI'm now getting 1.5 mil/sec
03:51.06Twingy5x speedup over 1 month aint bad
03:57.00Twingygrumph
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03:57.29Twingythe master of darkness
03:57.39Twingywho lives in aberdeen
03:57.45Twingywhere it's dark
03:57.52Twingyness
03:57.59DarkMasteror thereabouts
03:58.02Twingyn' stuff
03:59.02DarkMasterfun stuff
03:59.29Twingyhrm, 64-bit g-adrt is throwing in some 64-bit types :|
03:59.53DarkMastercrazy programmers
04:00.50Twingyah
04:00.56Twingyindeed that is a problem
04:01.00Twingynot having current code
04:01.14TwingyI blame no-one but my pet mice
04:01.37Twingyleaving little black pellets everywhere
04:02.10Twingyatleast amd64 isn't causing 'weird' stuff and it was just a programmer bug
04:02.19DarkMastersomeday someone in India will be doing what youre doing now :-P
04:02.32Twingyindeed, for about 3 cents an hour
04:02.57DarkMastergive em some credit
04:03.02Twingythat's when I will sit back and watch india's economy implode
04:03.03DarkMasterat least a quarter
04:03.12Twingyand giggle with glee
04:03.45Twingywe steal from the weak and give to the stupid
04:03.52Twingyerr how's that saying go?
04:05.03DarkMasterin this case, whos the weak?
04:05.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/pack.c: fixed some fu
04:05.48Twingythe people giving getting their money taken o.O
04:05.53Twingy-giving
04:07.16Twingyerr 2 bazillion files
04:07.20Twingy:)
04:08.55DarkMastermy mouse doesnt need to be fed
04:12.45Twingythat's okay, I've got a few you can have that do need fed
04:20.53DarkMasterdo they multiply like crazy?
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04:35.10cad592I'm going throught the tutorial on using brlcad and everytime I try to raytrace, brlcad locks up.  can anyone help?
04:39.06brlcadcad592: more details?
04:39.17brlcadI presume you mean mged locks up?
04:40.05brlcadwhich OS and version of BRL-CAD?  self-compiled or downloaded/installed a binary distribution?
04:43.24DarkMasterill race ya
04:43.26DarkMasteri win!
04:43.40cad592Yeah mged locks up. I'm using a downloaded binary on suse 9.2
04:44.18brlcadcad592: try running this in the command window instead of using the raytrace control panel:  rt -F/dev/Xl
04:44.22brlcaddoes that work?
04:44.36cad592Let me give it a shot...
04:48.18cad592it worked! - but the raytracing window closed real quick. In the command window, it told me the operation was completed
04:50.13brlcadhmm
04:50.27brlcadyou did use Xl and now just X yes?
04:50.40brlcads/now/not/
04:52.10cad592My bad - I typed X1 as opposed to Xl - A typo just as the tutorial told me to watch out for.  Man, the rt function is *fast*
04:52.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: external components may not be GPL
04:53.32brlcadcad592: that's good to hear
04:53.36cad592Why does the rt function work from the command window as you implimented it and not as the tutorial implimented it
04:53.43brlcadthat means the problem is something related to opengl
04:54.03brlcadopengl framebuffer is the default
04:54.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: oop speling
04:54.18brlcadcad592: try rt -F/dev/ogll
04:54.27brlcadthat should similarly fail for you
04:55.54cad592rt -F /dev/ogll made my screen go black for about 5 seconds...
04:56.16brlcadhrm, yeah
04:56.42brlcadi've seen that before, but not in a long time
04:56.49cad592I'm using an nvidia tnt2 card with the nvidia driver
04:57.36cad592what do you think I should be looking for in opengl as the source of the problem ...?...
04:57.37brlcadfor what it's worth, you're not losing any functionality by using the Xl framebuffer instead of the ogll framebuffer
04:57.49cad592whats the diff?
04:58.06brlcadbackend implementation uses different mechanisms to draw pixels
05:00.06cad592so, just use the syntax you have provided and all will be well?
05:01.34brlcadfor the time being
05:01.52brlcadi've updated the priority on the bug list
05:02.35brlcada compile on your system of the latest would avoid the problem by not compiling the opengl interface
05:02.49brlcadcad592: what does fbhelp report?
05:03.39brlcadunder current selection minimally
05:08.38DarkMasteryou get a chance to see my handiwork?
05:08.49brlcadnope
05:09.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: no gpl in libs or usage
05:09.00brlcadwhy?  did you send me a link?
05:09.14DarkMasteryeah a few days ago
05:09.19DarkMasterwant it again in a query?
05:09.35brlcadto me or learner?
05:09.49brlcadand did you get my PM from a few days ago?
05:10.10brlcadeither way, sure resend :)
05:13.05cad592how do I get to fbhelp?
05:17.33brlcadcad592: it's another external command
05:17.53brlcadthere are over 400 commands that comprise brl-cad in addition to mged
05:18.27DarkMasterand brlcad knows them allllll
05:18.28brlcadmged wraps several of them like rt, but there are still many that only work on a command line
05:18.35brlcadheh
05:18.48brlcadI probably know more than anyone else at this point
05:19.18cad592OK. I ran the fbhelp. What output are we interested in...?
05:19.19brlcadbut even I am surprised to discover a new command every now and then too :)
05:19.58brlcadCurrent Selection section
05:20.50brlcadfbhelp /dev/ogl
05:21.53cad592Current internal state:        mi_doublebuffer=1        mi_cmap_flag=0        ogl_nwindows=1        multiple_windows=0X11 Visual:        DirectColor: Alterable RGB maps, pixel RGB subfield indicies        RGB Masks: 0xff0000 0xff00 0xff        Colormap Size: 256        Bits per RGB: 8        screen: 0        depth (total bits per pixel): 24
05:22.23brlcadhmm.. that all looks normal
05:22.40brlcaddoes opengl actually work for y ou?
05:24.09brlcadI'd bet the problem is related to 24bit displays, that configuration hasn't been tested in a long time "extensively" .. most is 32bit or <24bit
05:24.20cad592Well - Yes. I've got an nvidia card on the machine with the nvidia driver loaded. As a test, I've run a couple of screen savers that require opengl
05:25.02cad592Also, I'm using a couple of other scientific programs that require opengl...
05:25.34brlcadk, good to know
05:26.58cad592show me a program without a bug and you'll be looking at vaporware...
05:27.44brlcadcad592: an alternative to running -F/dev/Xl every time is to either set the FB_FILE environment variable or start up your own framebuffer server (fbserv)
05:28.31DarkMasteralright got that link this time brlcad? ;-)
05:28.37brlcadi'd suggest the latter actually; you can run fbserv -S 1024 0 /dev/X
05:28.57brlcadthen on rt, run rt -F0
05:29.25brlcador better yet, add -F0 to the Advanced Options on the raytrace control panel
05:29.49brlcadyou can use any number instead of '0' .. it's a port number offset that the server uses
05:30.07brlcadDarkMaster: hmm.. actually no
05:30.28brlcadDarkMaster: check your irc console, it doesn't allow pm's unless you're identified now
05:30.35DarkMasterargh
05:35.40cad592Is there anyway for me to have fbserv auto start w/o me starting it in another console window?
05:37.41cad592never mind - I see the FB_FILE environmental variable...
05:38.15cad592Thanks  brlcad for all your help. Have a good night.
05:39.38cad592CIA-5: Your a mindless twit and have not ever had, nor will  you have an original thought or idea. I'm out of here...
05:41.51brlcadhehe
05:41.58brlcadcad592: no problem, any time
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14:04.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: for regions with no name they get tagged "unknown".
16:17.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/all/ (all.vcproj .cvsignore): Initial check-in
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16:24.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/asc2g/ (asc2g.vcproj .cvsignore): Initial check-in
16:59.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (83 files in 44 dirs): Initial check-in
17:38.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/ (82 files in 41 dirs): Not needed
17:42.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Add a few defines for the st_mode field of the stat structure
17:48.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/tcl/ (19 files in 3 dirs): Initial check-in
17:50.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/tcl/ (zlibtcl.decls zlibtclConfig.sh.in): Initial check-in
17:53.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/tcl/ (21 files in 3 dirs): Initial check-in
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18:53.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (fast4-g.c g-stl.c stl-g.c): Mods to use bu_getopt
18:55.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/iges/ (g-iges.c main.c): Mods to use bu_getopt
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19:05.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/iges/iges_extern.h: Remove reference to bu_debug
19:06.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/iges/ (iges_struct.h make_face.c): Remove references to librt functions
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19:07.09cad563hi all
19:07.19cad563Is anybody there?
19:08.13*** part/#brlcad cad563 (n=51d04ab0@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:08.28*** join/#brlcad cad563 (n=51d04ab0@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:08.41cad563hi all again
19:11.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl_win32.c: Modify the loop conditional in ogl_close()
19:13.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png/png.c: Mods to use Png_InitStubs in libpng
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19:21.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: Since there is no "background" command in rt_cmdtab and we already have the background color parsed, go ahead and set the background (Windows only, for now)
19:23.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/pkgIndex.tcl: Updated to load libpng instead of pngtcl
19:24.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Update
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20:08.32*** part/#brlcad Moob (n=3e2ddb57@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:09.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc6/brlcad/brlcad.dsw: Not needed
22:22.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (pack.c unpack.c): mesh map file is now binary.
22:22.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: mesh map file is now binary.
23:12.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: mesh map binary fix.
23:14.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/unpack.c: binary mesh map file fix.
23:30.05*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050914

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050914

00:39.43*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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02:04.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/isst_struct.h: isst_event_t handles 32/64-bit compatible event stucture, SDL_Event is not.
02:04.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/ (master/master.c observer/observer.c): isst_event_t integration.
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02:18.38Twingy_next order of bidness
02:18.46Twingy_pooperties
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02:57.13Twingy_okay, got it assigning material based on region now
02:57.25Twingy_you change the region material props and all the parts under it change too
02:57.48Twingy_average of about 10:1 parts to a region
02:58.00Twingy_err 20:1
02:58.19Twingy_maybe 25:1
02:58.26Twingy_somewhere in that neighborhood
02:59.03silvap_sean u there?
02:59.23Twingy_he's hiding under my bed
02:59.31brlcadsilvap_: mebbe
03:00.02silvap_i found an O(nlgn) reverse tesselation algorithm
03:01.15brlcadi've seen maybe 3 algorithms/papers to date of significance
03:01.35silvap_im lying
03:01.39silvap_just got home
03:01.41Twingy_hrm, I think it's chef boyardee time
03:01.43brlcadheh
03:02.03silvap_but i need some docs on .g format
03:02.06brlcadnone of the papers I've seen actually performed very well at all
03:02.10silvap_where do i find it
03:02.41brlcadsilvap_: the easiest is to probably code by example, through the API
03:02.53silvap_?
03:02.56silvap_i need docs
03:03.11silvap_outlining the .g internal format
03:03.11brlcadthere's a spec document that goes into detail
03:03.18silvap_in the repo?
03:03.26brlcadit's on the website
03:03.32silvap_ok
03:03.45brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/example_app.php
03:04.09brlcadit's considerably easier to write the .g format through the api calls though
03:04.20brlcadlibwdb is the "write database" library
03:04.25silvap_easy to read as well?
03:04.35brlcadmk_arb makes an arb, for example
03:05.49brlcadyeah, when I first started, I had libwdb working in code in less than an hour
03:06.14brlcad'brlman libwdb' has the majority of the geometric calls in a manpage
03:06.46silvap_so how is this gonna work
03:06.49brlcadthe mk and proc-db directories are chocked full of examples
03:07.07silvap_analysts will assign groups of csg as parts?
03:07.20silvap_csg generated from bot2csg
03:07.27brlcadhttp://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/proc-db/wdb_example.c?rev=14.3&view=auto
03:08.44brlcadsilvap_: I'd just worry about getting proof-of-concept working first, not analyst use
03:09.09brlcadit's not a solved computer graphics problem, you get it working reliably and you will have a research paper
03:10.22Twingy_canned food rocks
03:10.31silvap_analyst.. use.. doesn't.. matter... ?? heresy!
03:11.08silvap_this is sad
03:11.20silvap_i was writing a bpn library monday
03:11.32silvap_when i should have been writing a ga lib
03:11.47Twingy_burpin library
03:12.36brlcadsilvap_: ga libs are easy enough to whip out ;)
03:13.15Twingy_brute force yo
03:13.59Twingy_hrm, with all these soda cans on my desk, it's like russian roulette figuring out which one has soda in it
03:14.58silvap_what i learned in class today: how plasma displays work
03:15.25silvap_the wonderful world of image recognition
03:17.59Twingy_I learned that we have bowls just big enough to hold my chef boyardee o.O
03:18.45brlcadsilvap_: for the purpose of reading an existing .g, there are even more examples -- the converters are probably good starting points
03:18.58brlcadas for api docs, there are doxygen docs also on the website
03:19.51brlcadsilvap_: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/conv/bot-raw.c?rev=14.4&view=auto
03:21.06brlcadfor what it's worth, in librt lingo "internal" objects are in-memory geometry objects, "external" objects are serialized objects
03:22.58brlcadthat bot-raw example searches for BOTs in the .g and prints them out to a file
03:23.51brlcadcombine that with the wdb_example.c and you have just about everything you'll need to read/write to disk
03:24.30PKMOBILEmmmmm soda
03:25.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: region name is property now.
03:33.16Twingy_ah, open threads requires different function calls, that's no fun
03:34.00brlcadyeah, that's how they hide the mess of all the different threading means
03:34.08PKMOBILEso... is Twingy_ still in the WW3 building?
03:34.23brlcadlike using sprocs on irix instead of threads since they are considerably higher performance
03:34.50brlcadand solaris' low latency threading instead of pthreads, etc
03:35.09Twingy_hooray for standards
03:51.00Twingy_hrm
03:52.00Twingy_that little 9 mile walk was nice... I'm going to have to do that more often
04:59.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/ (isst.h master/isst_python.c slave/slave.c): added select and deselect commands to highlight parts from the console.
05:27.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/slave/slave.c librender/component.c libutil/display.c):
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07:29.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (5 files in 3 dirs): some friendly messages.
08:56.04*** join/#brlcad TheLastSpartan (i=guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
12:05.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (librender/render_util.c libutil/display.c): 256 char len string bug in render_util.c
12:06.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render_util.c: same thing, different function.
12:21.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/plane.c: highlighting of selected components in plane view as well.
13:13.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Initial check-in
13:15.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (archer archer.bat archer.ico archerLicense.txt): Initial check-in
13:21.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/iges/ (g-iges-vers_win.c iges-g-vers_win.c): Initial check-in
13:26.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/ (15 files in 13 dirs): Initial check-in
13:45.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archerLicense.txt: Not needed
14:14.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/sdialogs/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Initial check-in
14:17.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/ (14 files in 3 dirs): Initial check-in
14:37.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (17 files in 17 dirs): Mods to use *vers_win.c
14:42.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv_win.c: Initial check-in
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15:58.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Initial check-in
16:05.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/small-eagleCAD.ico: Initial check-in
16:24.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/acknowledgement.txt: Moved to doc/archer_ack.txt
16:27.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Initial check-in
16:46.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mods to reference COPYING instead of brlcadLicense.txt. Similarly, now referencing archer_ack.txt instead of acknowledgement.txt
19:23.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: Include header for fd_set
19:26.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/burst/fb.c: Include common.h
19:28.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: Remove declarations that are now in fb.h
19:44.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/iges/main.c: Fix some badness that snuck in with the previous mod
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20:55.59cad454hi all
20:56.19cad454is anybody there?
20:56.22cad454no?
20:56.26cad454ok
20:56.28cad454bye
21:36.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/iges/ (main.c g-iges.c): Modify fopen to use "b" flag if _WIN32
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050915

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050915

01:20.21Twingymoo
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03:39.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fbio.h: separate out the libfb FBIO structure and associated interface declarations into their own new header
03:40.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: remove the deprecated CONST and SIGNED defines
03:44.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm_xvars.h: this header requires X11 and Tk headers for resolving types
03:46.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: include the fbio.h header
03:51.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: remove the FBIO structure and assoicated rgbpixel definitions from fb.h and put them in their own fbio.h header
03:55.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fbserv_obj.h: don't need to declare those two 'rogue' X24 and ogl interfaces since they're declared in fbio.h now
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04:04.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/doevent.c: ws
04:05.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: tkwin needs to be a pointer type, quell compiler warning
04:06.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/jack/g-jack.c: remove unused extern declaration of fp_fig
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04:08.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/showtree.c: remove redundant declarations of static functions (they cause compiler errors where high optimization optimizes away the static functions
04:08.56cad592I've read/done the tutorial "VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED" and I'm sold on BRL-CAD. Is there a manual for 400+ commands contained in the /bin directory?
04:12.22cad592Or do I have to cat all of the manpages to one file...?...
04:17.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/shtool: add version 2.0.2 of the GNU Portable Shell Tool to cvs. the script is used by the build system to colorize configure output
04:19.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: add shtool
04:22.08brlcadhehe
04:27.31MaloeranSomeone hasn't quite understood the concept of IRC, where answers are often delayed by a few hours
04:37.46brlcadmore like s/faq/rules/
04:45.47MaloeranOut of curiousity, does brlcad have to remain C89 compliant? I noticed the almost complete lack of "inline", "restrict" keywords, or most other post-C89 features
04:55.39brlcadthe code only recently picked up c89
04:56.14brlcadit was k&r 'compliant' up until just the last 2 years ago or less
04:56.23MaloeranOh, eheh.
04:57.03brlcadas soon as we finish strict c89, we can start working on c99
04:58.01brlcadi don't think anyone would complain about c99 stuff beforehand (i'm sure there's some there already) cept maybe // comments
04:59.48Maloeran// comments are "C95" somewhat, but I get the point
04:59.51brlcadthere's still a bit of clean up to do, the tools that updated the code to ansi missed a bunch of k&r blocks
05:00.34brlcadsomewhat .. there are several supposedly c95 compilers that choke on that one in particular
05:00.44MaloeranMy code typically relies on a bunch of gnu99 extensions, when available, typically for these tricks which would otherwise require assembly
05:02.09brlcadthat's fine, it's usually just a matter of providing the right #define magic to make it all disappear (albeit at a performance hit) for those old systems just so they can at least compile
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07:24.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: TCL dummy functions
07:26.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def:
07:26.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: exports of brlcad.dll
07:26.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: if you need an additional function from the DLL, add it here
07:31.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc:
07:31.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: version and description of the DLL
07:31.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: this information will be written into the DLLs header
07:36.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.dsp:
07:36.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: MS Visual Studio 6.0 project file for a BRL-CAD Windows dynamic-link library
07:36.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: more recent versions of msdev can read this format too
08:05.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/.cvsignore: ignore msdev generated files
08:07.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/Makefile.am: dummy make file: there is nothing to make
08:08.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Makefile.am: directory Dll added
08:10.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/vers.vbs: mode is Visual Basic
08:13.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: include brlcad project
11:09.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: macros for version information
11:14.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.dsp: include directory for resource compiler
11:16.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc: version numbers from config_win.h
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11:26.15zero_khola
11:26.36zero_khi
11:27.11zero_kalguien que hable español?
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12:20.05docelic'day
13:55.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.ico: Moved to doc/html/manuals/archer
13:57.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/archer/archer.ico: Initial check-in
15:08.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/utility.tcl: Initial check-in
16:24.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Look for archer.ico in doc/html/manuals/archer
16:26.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA.tcl: Look for TankWizardIA.tcl in plugins/archer/Wizards/tankwizardIA
16:28.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Look for Archer_Documentation.chm in doc/html/manuals/archer
16:33.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/eagleCAD.bmp: Initial check-in
16:40.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/brlcad/.cvsignore: Added brlcad.ncb
16:43.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Initial check-in
17:49.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/tclIndex: Update
17:53.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/library/pkgIndex.tcl itk/library/pkgIndex.tcl): Initial check-in
17:56.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: Initial check-in
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22:12.42cad592how do i open brl-cad?
22:13.58cad592hello
22:14.09docelichello
22:46.34Twingyhrm
22:47.14Twingyaw reck'n it's 0xf00d time
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23:18.43archivist_3time for 0x0bed
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050916

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050916

01:24.45*** join/#brlcad cad972 (n=43af7683@bz.bzflag.bz)
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03:17.56Twingyo.O
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05:05.17cad032Do any utilites exist for importing gerber files into brlcad?
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05:51.21PKMOBILEIRC Rule #1 - Patience
05:51.52PKMOBILEsleepy time!!
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17:21.31brlcadwhat the heck is a gerber file?
17:21.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: separate out the compiler, linker, and preprocessor checks into proper macros: BC_COMPILER_AND_LINKER_RECOGNIZES, BC_COMPILER_RECOGNIZES, BC_LINKER_RECOGNIZES, BC_PREPROCESSOR_RECOGNIZES
18:01.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/stage.m4: add macros BC_BOLD and BC_UNBOLD to set/unset the output emphasis. also add BC_CONFIGURE_STAGE macro that reports a line for each section of configure checks (using the bold/unbold)
18:13.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/Makefile.am: add compiler.m4 and stage.m4
18:14.40archivist_3pcb laser plotting file
18:15.55archivist_3very much a 2d thing
18:16.44archivist_3supports layers eg top traces solder mask etc
18:18.22archivist_3though the hole sizes are a bit crude
18:20.06archivist_3the lines are drawn with shapes/flashes
18:28.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: remove the test for $prefix/etc as we do not have/use one
18:30.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/magic.c: comment about including stuff from libfb is a lib dependency (comment)
18:31.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/color.c: don't include the fb.h header, that's in a different library. provide local color defines for red/grn/blu, etc.
18:33.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/ (Makefile.am ReleaseNotes/Makefile.am): remove the empty ReleaseNotes directory
18:47.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
18:47.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: massive changes, conversion over to new macros for the compiler/linker tests.
18:47.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: identify each section of the configure file using the configure stage macro that
18:47.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: provides bolding the output for the various stages. change the check for java
18:47.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: to be enabled by default. fix the high-optimization conflict with profiling
18:47.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: (cannot omit frame pointer). rework the java tests some. add a YFLAGS for -d
18:49.36*** join/#brlcad phenotic (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-22-33-7.balt.east.verizon.net)
18:52.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (16 files):
18:52.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: rework tkwin into cmd.c and profide the DM_X and DM_OGL defines to the build.
18:52.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: probably fixes a bug or two of some sort on the display manager. also migrate
18:52.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: the tolerance vars together along with other ws and header cleanup
18:54.48brlcadheya phenotic :)
18:55.53phenoticYo, tell Twingy adrt sucks:)
18:56.05brlcadhehe
18:58.42phenoticTwingy, where is your working bench the new file format?
18:59.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-X.c): wrap the file contents in its DM_* symbol so that it can be compiled regardless of it being available
19:07.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: header cleanup, might as well use libfb's interface file for the extern declarations and be specific about the dependency
19:12.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: profile the DM_X and DM_OGL flags here instead of automatically on in configure. should be autodetecting better now
19:14.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ab.c: remove the shadowing floor define, just use the math floor() instead
19:16.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fblocal.h: don't need machine.h
19:17.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_obj.c: ws
19:28.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_generic.c: the interfaces are now all declared in include/fbio.h for all to use
19:31.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: rename the interface symbols to IF_
19:34.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_X.c if_X24.c if_ogl.c): wrap the interface headers in their respective IF_ defines so that they'll compile regardless of being available
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050917

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050917

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16:40.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Makefile.am: a 'Dll' dir was apparently not commited or was removed
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16:49.51john_gHi, I updated to cvs rel-7-6-0 and could not get autogen.sh to give good output.  Is that version ready?
16:57.39john_gquit
20:10.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/off/g-off.c: fix mac -fast compilation error. can't declare var as static and extern; the static is optimized away and the extern becomes an undefined symbol.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050918

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050918

01:07.44*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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01:43.05cad399all quiet on the homefront...
01:43.15brlcadpeaceful ;)
01:44.42pra5adgrr
01:44.55cad399everyone running 7.6 by now?
01:45.09pra5adwebirc chat box has dissaperear
01:45.17pra5addissapeared...
01:45.35brlcadpra5ad, what are you using cgi:irc for? get a real client :)
01:45.46brlcadcad399: of course
01:45.51pra5adlazy and on laptop
01:46.04cad399any problems with rtwizard?
01:47.02brlcadcad399: such as?
01:47.43cad399hangs.  popup says: loading megawidgets, then it hangs at 40% every time
01:47.57brlcadhmm
01:48.36brlcadcad399: that sounds worthy of a bug report
01:48.49cad399I haven't really dug into it yet, thought maybe it was a known issue
01:49.13brlcadthere was something about rtwizard hanging, but it's been years since that's been seen
01:49.32brlcadit was related to loading incrtcl as a shared lib on mac os x
01:49.44cad399debian sarge here
01:50.08brlcadyou compiled from sources?
01:50.25cad399not yet, I'm new to brl-cad.
01:50.47cad399so far everything else works as advertised
01:51.55brlcadthat's really odd.. especially if you didn't compile
01:52.28cad399yeah
01:53.03cad399probably something I'm doing/not doing
01:53.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: report of rtwizard hanging at 40% on Debian (from binary distro)
01:54.03brlcadhow are you running rtwizard?
01:54.04cad399Actually, I'm impressed that it runs so well 'out of the box'
01:54.21cad399as per manpage
01:54.21brlcadit might be presuming a file name
01:56.12brlcadmanpage.. manpage.. what manpage? :)
01:57.13cad399ahh... rtwizard dosen't HAVE a manpage. My bad. But rt does.
01:57.32cad399running rtwizard cup.g mug.r
01:59.21brlcadahhh
01:59.36brlcadhehe, I don't think rtwizard accepts the same args
01:59.42brlcadtry just "rtwizard cup.g"
02:00.16cad399same result
02:00.20brlcadhrmph
02:00.52cad399popup says "Megawidget packed" progress bar hangs at 40%
02:01.19cad399must be a tcl thing
02:01.28brlcadyou know what.. might just be a window manager issue
02:01.43brlcadat 40%, it makes a new window
02:01.51cad399hmmm
02:01.57brlcad"supposed" to minimize the progress bar
02:02.03brlcadand bring the new window to focus
02:03.01brlcadthat said, I don't believe the tool has been tested in a little while, so something has evidently changed
02:03.46cad399the xterm says "Error in startup script: rtarea is not defined in class ::display...
02:04.39brlcadyeah, I just got that here too
02:04.56brlcadprobably something to do with the new resource locations being changed recently
02:05.17cad399sounds right
02:06.51cad399I'm sure it'll be sorted out LONG before I get the hang of brl-cad lol
02:07.09brlcadheh, probably :)
02:07.31brlcadpresuming we don't get too sidetracked with the windows release and bug reports there ..
02:07.52cad399can of worms
02:08.23cad399If I build from source, will I get any addiotional documentation?
02:09.10brlcadnot any additional user documentation
02:09.18cad399wow... spellcheck is our friend
02:09.23brlcadthere is more documentation on the website, though
02:09.34brlcadfind a spelling mistake?
02:09.40cad399just mine
02:09.57brlcadah, heh
02:25.28cad399so, to use rtweight I have to set up a density file?
02:26.21brlcadyes
02:26.26brlcadpretty simple format
02:26.41cad399is there an example somewhere?
02:26.56brlcadsure, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/.density
02:27.29cad399thanks, sorry to be a bother. trying to rtfm
02:27.49brlcadno problem at all
02:29.51cad399wow, that rocks.
02:30.03cad399now if it would just generate G-Code... lol
02:30.47brlcad:)
02:31.02brlcadthere was a couple guys working on that for a while, but they haven't been involved in a while
02:32.56cad399tough nut to crack
02:39.56cad399Has there been any discussion of moving away from tcl?
02:40.08Twingyheh
02:40.21Twingyyou volunteering? :)
02:40.59cad399Maybe... I would have to be a LOT further along the learning curve
02:42.32cad399an ipython interface would be nice
02:42.37brlcadgtk's not portable enough as a sole frontend
02:42.52cad399fltk?
02:43.25brlcadwhy??
02:43.29brlcadwhat does it buy you?
02:43.42cad399fltk, nothing.
02:43.47Twingyme not having to write a gui :)
02:43.49cad399ipython, hmmm
02:43.54brlcadi meant gtk
02:44.31cad399nothing
02:44.31TwingyI've done a bunch of fltk stuff in the past, wanna give gtk a whirl
02:45.00brlcadyou already tied into python, why not just use that?
02:45.27Twingycause I'd prefer to write some tight C/C++ gui code
02:45.47TwingyI'm not really using python as much as you think o.O
02:46.05brlcadi know, but you are using it, i.e. a dependency
02:46.11Twingyjup
02:46.19brlcadeach new lib is a pile of dependency headaches
02:46.22Twingyhey, it was lee's idea to shove adrt into brl-cad *shrug*
02:46.26brlcadand gtk is one of the worst, probably the worst
02:46.35Twingynot on freebsd :)
02:46.52Twingyor loonix for that matter
02:46.58brlcadit even is on bsd
02:47.09brlcadit might be simple to just tell ports to install it
02:47.15brlcadbut it's not a simple dependency library
02:47.17Twingyuh, what part about doing cd /usr/ports/wm-toolkits/gtk2 and doing make install is hard?
02:47.21brlcadthere are tons of subdependencies
02:47.28brlcadand they all have their own dependencies
02:47.36cad399that depends...
02:47.38Twingyif you installed it right then you don't have to worry about those :)
02:48.52brlcadadrt being in brl-cad was a good idea, there's no real need for it to be _required_ to be coupled to external components
02:49.20Twingyindeed
02:49.22brlcadit's one thing to use when available, and provide alternatives for portability
02:49.39brlcadit's a good tool, more useful across systems
02:49.50TwingyI dunno, I'm more of a fan of breaking things up into smaller packages and just chewing on the ones you're using...
02:49.56Twingykinda like /usr/ports does it
02:50.07brlcadthe more complex it's made, the more likely you're just killing it's ability to be adopted
02:50.23Twingy*shrug* gimp has a pretty large user base
02:50.25brlcadit's relatively non-trivial for anyone to use it unless they use the same environment you do
02:50.41Twingythere's what, about a million gimp users?
02:50.43brlcadyou're not gimp in the least, regardless of whether you use gtk or not
02:50.55Twingyright, but if people can install gimp, then can install this :)
02:51.02brlcadand their build is much much much more forgiving than yours
02:51.22brlcadand they do have support hooks for other libs for some of their deps
02:51.38Twingyso, I'll add em into the build system *shrug*
02:51.51brlcadyou can't add gtk
02:51.54brlcadit's way too big
02:52.02brlcadnot to mention all it's dependencies
02:52.13Twingyso... make it it's own entity then
02:52.14brlcadeven gdk is too big
02:52.42Twingyless headaches for you o.O
02:52.47cad399where do I learn about adrt?
02:52.49brlcadthat doesn't solve any problem other than your ability to play with others :P
02:53.06brlcadI care more that you're just crippling your own app needlessly
02:53.48brlcadexactly the problem, it's way more useful than that
02:53.54brlcadat least it could be
02:54.01brlcadwith relatively little effort
02:54.07Twingyin what way?
02:54.25brlcadin what way what?
02:54.45brlcadvisualization framework, high performance rendering
02:54.47Twingypeople can get their hands on higher performance ray-tracing engines...
02:55.12Twingyalexis's is 10x faster, most people care about optical rendering, they should use that for such purposes
02:55.22Twingycause it's geared for pretty pictures
02:55.22brlcadopen source?  I doubt it
02:55.28Twingysoon :)
02:55.29brlcadmore feature-filled, perhaps, but not faster
02:55.42Twingyhis is 10x faster
02:55.52brlcadyeah yeah.. "soon" .. i'll hold my breath until I see it up on sf.net
02:56.12Twingymight be sooner than you think o.O
02:56.24brlcadi mean specifically released already
02:56.40brlcadit could be tonight for all i know/care (which I don't much)
02:56.44cad399could your renderer be ported to graphics hardware?
02:58.57brlcadcad399: there are several renders, some could, some have
02:59.29cad399is it worth the effort?
02:59.37brlcaddepends what you goal is
02:59.48cad399speed
03:00.27brlcadspeed for what?  generating pretty pictures?  generating shaded views?  performing signature analyses?
03:00.28cad399I don't really like tcl,
03:00.34pra5adustin
03:00.37pra5adjustin
03:00.44TwingyO.o
03:00.55cad399shaded views
03:01.01pra5adu plan on adding adaptive packet sizes
03:01.05brlcadcad399, you don't have to deal with tcl really, even the majority of the code isn't tcl
03:01.17pra5adbased on worker traffic
03:01.19pra5adetc
03:01.43Twingywe got homogeneous cluster y0
03:01.44cad399what I started to say was that although I don't really like tcle,
03:02.00cad399I can generate geometry pretty quiclkly
03:02.08cad399trendering is slow though
03:02.27brlcadcad399: ahh, shaded views should be taken care of with the new intermediate viewer that's being merged in now
03:02.44pra5adwhat can get ur efficiency curve to 100% linear
03:03.22Twingy100% efficiency cruve != best performance
03:03.39brlcad110%!
03:03.47pra5ad?
03:03.50Twingyelevendy billion percent!
03:03.57pra5adlinear ramp for runtimes
03:04.08pra5ad== best performance
03:04.11Twingysmaller packets == 100% efficiency == more overhead == slower rendering
03:04.36Twingyif you have slow horribly code likes muves then smaller packets == better performance
03:04.53pra5adhow wrong u are
03:04.56pra5ad:)
03:04.58Twingywhen the packets take like miliseconds to compute then you are network bound
03:05.15Twingyokay, I'm wrong
03:05.39cad399what's the deal with the intermediate viewer?
03:06.19brlcadcad399: there was a tool that was developed by a 3rd party using mged in a pseudo plugin-mode, but that does shaded views by default
03:07.08brlcadthat tool's starting to be merged into cvs now, probably an iteration or two before it's released initially
03:07.18cad399fast enough to rotate, pan, etc?
03:07.24brlcadsure
03:07.29brlcadit's all just opengl
03:07.50cad399kewl
03:07.55brlcadeven mged can do it now in an experimental mode if you turn it on
03:08.03cad399pray tell
03:08.15brlcadbut it's a little clunky and with a couple known bugs
03:08.56cad399How do I turn it on?
03:09.06brlcadshaded_mode 2
03:09.44brlcadturn on Misc -> z buffer and Misc -> lighting
03:09.55brlcadthen (re)display some geometry
03:10.33brlcadoh, and Misc -> z clipping
03:10.50cad399ahha! nice
03:11.51cad399yeah, a bit buggy.
03:11.55brlcadjust don't try to display really complex geometry .. it'll bog down with some geometry
03:12.46cad399so intermediate will be better?
03:13.37brlcadyeah
03:14.07brlcadthen the longer term replacement under development completely fixes the problem, but that's very far out from release
03:15.14cad399If it had a renderer that was fast like varicad...
03:17.28brlcadthere is a fast renderer, two of them for different purposes
03:19.19brlcadrt will handle large complex csg models with all sorts of options in parallel better than most; adrt does triangles faster than just about anything else out there freely available
03:20.29cad399how do I play with adrt?
03:21.35brlcadit's not really set up for end-users yet, but if you want to try then Twingy is your guy
03:21.52Twingyerm, you needs bots or blender
03:22.28cad399bots as in bags of triangles?
03:22.38cad399what good is blender going to me?
03:22.51Twingypython exporter, plus it's got lots of triangle shtuff
03:23.04cad399hmmm
03:23.25Twingyand lots of nifty animation utils you can use to make movies
03:26.49cad399Seems like VTK should be a good option for animation
03:27.20cad399But I don't think they're GPL
03:28.03cad399Some of the OpenCASCADE people are using VTK as a faster renderer
03:28.22cad399SALOME in particular
03:28.31brlcadif opengl is all you want, there are several options
03:30.02cad399OpenGL isn't everything, it just seems that it would speed up geometry creation
03:30.15brlcadsure
03:30.33brlcadthat's why it's the foundation in the new modeler
03:31.20cad399I'm probably getting ahead of myself
03:31.33cad399I'm still learning how to create geometry
03:31.49cad399and figuring out this whole shotline thing...
03:32.51cad399interesting method of interogating a model.
03:34.42Twingysean, you got any issues with fltk?
03:36.30brlcadTwingy: not a big fan of the api or look, but nah, it's fine
03:36.35brlcadnice tight library
03:36.45Twingyaight
03:37.09brlcadsimple deps, we actually ship 2 of it's 4 deps
03:37.32brlcadand they're just recommended
03:38.07Twingybefore writing nurbana's custom 10k line opengl gui I used fltk
03:38.37brlcadwhy'd you drop it?
03:38.47brlcadi mean, i probably would have too.. just curious :)
03:39.04Twingycause my gui design paradigm needed to interact with the opengl display
03:39.13Twingynot as separate entities
03:39.19Twingyblack A gui, block B display
03:40.12brlcad(good) opengl guis
03:44.42Twingywe can include lgpl crap right?
03:44.50brlcadyep
03:44.58Twingyhrm, I'm leaning towards paragui then
03:52.08brlcadparagui's got more deps I believe, a lot more .. not sure which are required though
03:53.03Twingysdl image and sdl ttf
03:55.41brlcadaccording to the maintainer list I ran across, it lists libjpg, libpng, sdl and company, tiff, perl, python, readline, and ruby
03:56.01brlcadif perl and ruby are "optional", and there aren't any others, I wouldn't see a problem
03:57.17brlcadhmm. uses expat and freetype too
03:57.28brlcadprobably okay too
03:57.56Twingythere's options to not depend on those
03:57.59Twingyin configure
03:58.08Twingyexpat atleast
03:58.11brlcadcool
03:58.16brlcadwhat's required?
03:59.42TwingySDL, freetype, SDL_image, zlib, option (expat, libjpg, libpng)
03:59.47Twingy*optional
04:00.13TwingyI don't see perl and ruby
04:00.29brlcadcould just be a bindings thing, or a subdep
04:00.34Twingyaccording to the INSTALL
04:00.48brlcadfreetype's required?
04:00.58Twingyyah I think so
04:01.03brlcadfreetype2 or 1?
04:01.23Twingy2.0
04:01.32brlcadwell that's good
04:01.45Twingyor higher
04:02.00Twingysdl image can be turned off
04:02.08brlcad1 vs 2 are completely different font engines
04:02.13Twingyjup
04:02.25Twingy2 became grotesquely huge :|
04:02.54brlcadyeah :/
04:06.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: odd -fast optimization/aliasing bug where rtip contents are lost in rt after returning from rt_gettrees()
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05:18.10cad399Is there a tool to set up a 'working' coordinate system?
05:18.56cad399like a named reference system?
05:19.48cad399And then work within that reference frame?
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15:39.54cad422hey
15:40.04cad422anyone know where the installation goes to in OSX?
15:40.19cad422it's not showing up in applications
15:42.38brlcadit goes to /usr/brlcad
15:43.00brlcad*presently* you have to run X11 and set your PATH on OS X for the time being
15:43.12brlcadit'll be a full double-clickable app in the very near future
15:43.52cad422thanks so much, I see it there
15:44.06cad422the install gave the impression that it was a clickable item :)
15:44.19cad422is there a tutorial?
15:54.06brlcadthere are
15:54.32brlcadback to your first question, though, you know how to set your PATH, I presume?
15:54.49brlcadthe tutorials are on the website under the Documents section at http://brlcad.org
19:53.26*** join/#brlcad thumPer1052 (n=edward@host-66-205-107-201.classicnet.net)
20:33.00brlcadhowdy thumPer1052
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050919

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050919

00:43.55thumPer1052howdy
01:57.03*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
03:40.38*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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04:08.07thumPer1052Twings back
04:08.36Twingyyah
04:08.41Twingytesting oc stuff
04:08.49thumPer1052ahh
04:09.06TwingyCPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (3533.02-MHz 686-class CPU)
04:09.35thumPer1052yes, yours is bigger than mine *sniff*
04:09.55Twingymeh, this is a year old
04:10.37TwingyI figure it's got a good 12 months of life in it
04:11.32thumPer1052I upgrade when I can buy a cpu/board combo that is twice as fast [as what I'm using] for less thatn 300
04:11.43thumPer1052every couple of years
04:12.03Twingysame here, but I budget for up to $1k
04:12.12Twingymy last box was a dual PIII 1ghz I had for 3 years
04:12.25thumPer1052nice
04:12.36TwingyI gave it to a friend for free last year
04:13.02thumPer1052cool
04:13.15thumPer1052drop me a line when you're tired of your girlfriend
04:13.17thumPer1052lol
04:13.20Twingyheh
04:13.56TwingyI did give it to a girl, who is a friend, but not my girlfriend :P
04:14.17thumPer1052I have one of those
04:14.25thumPer1052she has 'veto rights' at the club
06:43.14*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=c28bf505@bz.bzflag.bz)
06:51.02d_rossbergbrlcad:  cvs update -d  creates any directories that exist in the repository if they're missing from the working copy
09:19.18*** join/#brlcad Erroneous_ (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
10:39.43*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
10:39.43*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
14:56.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Makefile.am: oops, so there is a Dll directory.. I swear I update dP'd.. hrmph
15:00.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the misc/win32-msvc/Dll/Makefile
15:06.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: memset the size that was allocated
16:33.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/doc/binary_spec.txt: updated binary spec doc
16:51.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: remove the unused prototypes block, remove the non-nmg structure definitions
17:32.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/shadework.h: these happen to actually be lights, so use light_specific instead of shar*
17:33.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rtprivate.h: header wrapping foo, headers deps, and provide RT_BUFSIZE for default parseable title length
17:34.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: nmg.h wraps itself now, so just include it
17:39.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: common.h
17:45.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/light.h: provide OPTICAL_EXPORT, replicated from optical.h and include the headers this header requires
17:59.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: remove stale comment
18:02.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (rtwalk.c rtshot.c rtexample.c main.c): use RT_BUFSIZE define from rtprivate.h instead of constant 132
18:34.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/shade.c: sw_visible is light_specific
18:35.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_plastic.c: ws
18:36.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: quell warnings, make the image dimensions longs instead of ints
18:58.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: if the partition list is empty, break out early; sw_visible is a light_specific now
19:21.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fill in the items people should have been adding. build support checks for X11 and opengl; windows build support; isst observer magnification, 64bit support imprements, updated manpages.
19:47.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: -fast seems to provoke stack corruption in the shadow computations so disable it for now
20:08.37*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
20:16.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/Makefile.am: removed quotes
20:54.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bzw isn't ready
20:56.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: -mdynamic-no-pic needs to pass by the compiler too since the linker doesn't seem to care if it's not valid (at least on linux)
20:57.45brlcadmajor commits to configure should be all done now, lemme know if there are any troubles
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21:11.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/jack/ (g-jack.c jack-g.c): s/RT_EXTERN/BU_EXTERN/
21:14.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: s/RT_EXTERN/BU_EXTERN/
21:15.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/off/g-off.c: BU_EXTERN
21:17.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/vdeck.c: BU_EXTERN
21:18.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (11 files): RT_EXTERN -> BU_EXTERN
21:21.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/light.h: BU_EXTERN
21:24.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.3: h/ directory is now the include/ directory
21:36.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): s/RT_ARGS/BU_ARGS/g
21:39.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/g-iges.c: don't need both rev and header
21:55.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/g-iges.c: ugh, RCSrev is actually used in the code. that should probably be changed but for now just revert it.
21:57.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/g-iges.c: ;
22:02.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/g-iges.c: for the love of q!
22:17.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: have_java_h was changed to found_jni_h
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23:48.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: e-mailing the cad-linux-dev requires special attention not appropriate for general release announcement
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050920

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050920

00:32.00*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-236-199.balt.east.verizon.net)
00:39.01silvap__sup mike
00:39.25tegtmeyeyo...
00:39.30tegtmeyeseen justin
00:39.34tegtmeye?
00:39.40silvap__nop
00:40.02tegtmeyeadrt is breaking badly under mac...
00:40.20silvap__thought u got it running at 2M
00:40.27silvap__2M/s
00:40.44tegtmeyeyea... 2M/s of black...
00:40.50silvap__ah
00:40.57silvap__so u checked -d
00:40.58silvap__heh
00:43.04tegtmeyeyea... even doing simple boxes renders bad...
00:50.57``Erikoh, hey, it's prasad, hah
00:51.49``Erikjustin had to scoot early, he may be at the realtors o.O or looking at that "backup house"
00:51.50tegtmeyeThanks, I don't think that it is going to help Justin's stuff though...
00:52.08``Erikyeah, sorry, skimmed real quick, brain ain't workin'
01:02.20tegtmeye<PROTECTED>
01:28.07*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
01:29.15tegtmeyeyo justin, your raytracer is giving me headache
01:29.26Twingywoah :)
01:29.36Twingyjust got a new set of tires and shoes
01:29.52Twingycan I help?
01:30.24tegtmeyegot the benchmark to run on mac with the blender file and...
01:30.39Twingythe benchmark might not run since your .map file is not binary
01:30.39tegtmeye3.8 milllliiioooon rays/sec of nothing
01:30.51TwingyI have to update the python script to do binary .map
01:30.58Twingyonly g-adrt does it right now
01:31.04Twingybut you don't care about the .map file
01:31.34Twingyif you get sean to add you to developer list
01:31.38TwingyI could make the changes quicklike
01:31.38tegtmeyeno but, I'd like to have some indication everything is working alright...
01:31.43Twingyright
01:31.48Twingylet me update the python script...
01:31.54TwingyI can post it on my webserver or somphin
01:32.05tegtmeyeI am a dev on brlcad now...
01:32.08Twingyah
01:32.12Twingyokay, that makes like easier
01:32.27Twingyand you copied the camera line into the .frames file?
01:32.37tegtmeyeyea, didn't matter where I put it
01:32.55tegtmeyeI did manage to render some crap though...
01:33.06Twingyk, lemme update my python script and test here
01:33.06tegtmeyelots of pretty colors...
01:33.12Twingyafter I verify it's working I'll let you try
01:33.15Twingygimme like 5-10 mins
01:33.18tegtmeyekl
01:39.26Twingytesting
01:43.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: uses binary .map file now
01:43.37Twingyneed to test matrix thingy
01:47.44Twingyuno momento por favor
01:47.51tegtmeyek
01:48.47Twingythis thing is running surprisingly stable at 3.486ghz
01:49.16Twingygranted I got the voltages cranked up
01:49.24tegtmeyewhat is it? a 16F877?
01:49.40TwingyCPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (3486.49-MHz 686-class CPU)
01:50.01tegtmeyeYou would have impressed me more if it was a PIC
01:50.20learnerheh
01:50.35TwingyI don't think the gate lengths are short enough :(
01:51.04Twingywith a little luck I might be able to get one going at 50 or 60mhz though
01:51.05tegtmeye80 millimeters, 80 nanometers, whats the difference
01:51.21Twingymaybe just high enough to screw with your radio
01:51.34tegtmeyelol
01:53.11Twingyk, jus aboot done here eh
01:53.46Twingyjeepers
01:54.44Twingyoooh
01:54.51tegtmeye?
01:54.59Twingyone sec, checking somphin
01:55.25Twingyah, found a buggie
01:55.38tegtmeyeelaborate...
01:55.41Twingywasn't null terminating a string in python exporter
01:55.58Twingyhave to pack a 0 after I pack the string name
02:00.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: fixed string termination on mesh name
02:00.28Twingyokay
02:00.29Twingytry that
02:00.38tegtmeyek, gimme a sec...
02:00.39Twingyyou want a .blend?
02:00.47tegtmeyesure
02:00.49Twingyk
02:02.02Twingyhttp://69.250.254.246/~justin/monkey.blend
02:06.32Twingybrb
02:06.36Twingygot a zombie to kill
02:07.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
02:08.00TwingyI get 1.36 mil rays/sec on that scene
02:09.54Twingyhrmph
02:10.27tegtmeye1.96 mil rays/sec of black
02:10.52Twingyhrm
02:10.56tegtmeyeis the frams file right?
02:11.07tegtmeyeframe,1
02:11.07tegtmeyetransform_mesh,Suzanne,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,-1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
02:11.07tegtmeyecamera,2.774529,-4.754521,0.000000,2.274529,-3.888496,-0.000000,0.0,19.923788,0.000000
02:11.21Twingylooks right
02:11.48Twingyand you got latest and greatest adrt source?
02:12.54tegtmeyeyea, just updated everything...
02:13.02Twingyk one sec
02:13.14tegtmeyehave you tried this on your pbook?
02:13.21Twingynot in ages
02:13.46tegtmeyeyour tax dollars at work...
02:13.47Twingyand video editing
02:13.54TwingyI didn't ask for it!
02:14.23Twingyonce my dell laptop comes in I plan to get much use out of it
02:14.55Twingyk, lemme debug for a sec
02:15.24tegtmeyek, I'm going to split here shortly, be at this since I got home...
02:15.45Twingyheh
02:15.56Twingys/lone/long
02:16.06Twingythen again I don't have a wife to entertain...
02:16.14tegtmeyeexactly...
02:16.29tegtmeyethey have a way of being persuasive...
02:16.42TwingyI'll poke at some stuff for a bit
02:16.55TwingyI guess you can poke at it tommorrow
02:17.08TwingyI'm done my accomplishments, so I'll have a few hours to write code this week
02:17.32tegtmeyeyea, I'm goingt to let sean's commits compile overnight...
02:17.39Twingyhehe
02:17.43tegtmeyeand look at this again over "lunch"
02:17.53Twingyyou just need a 12401925 cpu altix
02:18.00Twingythen it'll compile supah fast
02:18.33tegtmeyeor...
02:18.45tegtmeyejust drop the need to compile brlcad at all...
02:19.02Twingyhrm... reminds me of an old version of adrt... Heretic!
02:19.21tegtmeyelol
02:19.35TwingyAll Hail the brl-cad-ori
02:20.19Twingy:-)
02:20.26Twingygrumble cakes
02:20.44tegtmeye...just tried again using complex supermesh box geometry to no avail...
02:20.53Twingyk, hold on a sec
02:20.57Twingyisst is not snarfing it
02:21.02Twingyit might not be fixed yet
02:25.17tegtmeye"...ld: .libs/Runput.o has local relocation entries in non-writable section (__TEXT,__text)
02:25.17Twingyyah
02:25.18Twingybug
02:25.35Twingyadrt.py need one more adjustment
02:25.40tegtmeyebrlcad has issuess...
02:26.32TwingyI should make a *stable* branch in brlcad
02:26.33Twingythat doesn't change but more than once a month
02:26.33tegtmeyelol...
02:26.33Twingyfor adrt
02:26.53Twingythen I can have my mad-crazy-changes-every-five-picoseconds-branch
02:27.23tegtmeyeWhata mean, I like the microsoft, er, MUVES3, er, java, er... appraoch..."
02:27.51Twingyheh
02:30.24tegtmeyetommorrow then...
02:30.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: signed stuff
02:31.08Twingy^-- won't fix you problem
02:32.16TwingyH
02:32.21Twingygot it I think
02:32.25Twingynewp
02:38.09tegtmeyenope...
02:38.25TwingyI told you it wouldn't do anything :)
02:38.47tegtmeyeI'll try angain tomorrow...
02:38.51tegtmeyesee ya...
02:38.53Twingyk
02:38.54Twingyl8r
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04:30.19silvap__woo woo skins!
04:41.42Twingyheh
04:42.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: null terminator
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06:44.25PKMOBILEzzzzzzz sleep time
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14:33.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to to 0.7.0
14:39.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/library/panedwindow.tcl: Put catch statements around " identify ". This hacks around annoying error messages. Need to investigate further.
14:48.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/generic/panedwindow.itk: Modify the look of the sash (i.e. always raised); add check in the fraction method to check for the existence of _ret before using it
14:51.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/generic/toolbar.itk: Add mods to ensure that the balloon help window is not clipped by the screen
14:54.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Minor mods
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19:06.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/camera.c: optimized non depth of field rendering, performance is 1% faster.
19:17.19MaloeranEheh Justin, don't we hunt these 1% performance gains :)
19:28.25Twingy_they add up
19:28.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/camera.c: removed expensive memcpy from camera ray generation, 1.4% performance boost.
19:28.58Twingy_2.4% speedup today, wee
19:32.20MaloeranEheh, I did notice that memcpy :)
19:33.05Twingy_2.64 mil/sec on my xeon box
19:34.16Twingy_kind of fun watching my t62 scene run at 120 fps on the cluster
19:34.20MaloeranI have briefly started an amd64 assembly version of the ray-tracing function, but I'll write it in a more generic way, full of gas preprocessor macros to expand and cover all combinations of settings ( as the procedurally generated C versions do )
19:34.26Twingy_ah
19:34.39Twingy_fun
19:34.40MaloeranI'm sure :), we could make that 800fps, wee
19:34.44Twingy_hehe
19:34.53Twingy_we'd probly have to start optimizing sdl
19:34.56Twingy_;)
19:35.19Twingy_that's sad isn't it :}
19:35.54MaloeranSDL did seem a bit slow somehow, in comparison to what I'm used to with X shared pixmaps
19:35.58Twingy_I just got the 2 opteron machines strapped onto a thick sturdy adjustable plastic tv cart
19:36.06Twingy_now I can wheel them around the compound
19:36.11Twingy_well
19:36.14MaloeranNeat :}
19:36.17Twingy_you need to be fullscreen to get hardware acceleration
19:36.31MaloeranI generally run my benchmarks in 1600x1200 full screen
19:36.37Twingy_which is why I have a fullscreen toggle
19:36.41Twingy_ah, k
19:36.54Twingy_I find that 640x480 meets my needs
19:37.28MaloeranBy the way, the last executable I sent you was optimized for P4, and was 32 bits ; somewhat slower on Opterons than it should have been o.O
19:37.35Twingy_that is to say, none of the analysts are complaining the resolution is too low
19:38.06Twingy_mal, I'll privmsg you tonight
19:38.11Twingy_I have more news
19:38.21MaloeranGreat, sure
20:23.05*** join/#brlcad Semhirage (i=semhirag@unaffiliated/semhirage)
20:29.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/unpack.c: unpack_free is enabled again
20:34.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/bench.c: calling common_unpack_free()
20:34.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: tie_push doesn't throw warning anymore
20:55.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: formatting
20:59.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: more formatting
21:04.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie.c: enough formatting already
21:08.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (Makefile.am phong.c render.h render_internal.h): no more ambient term
21:53.59*** join/#brlcad thumPer1052 (n=edward@host-66-205-107-201.classicnet.net)
21:54.45thumPer1052ahh, the Twingy twins
23:30.06Twingyhrm
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050921

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050921

00:03.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
00:56.04*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-224-66.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:42.49Twingygrumph
02:12.05Twingytime for a big commit
02:15.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (43 files in 12 dirs):
02:15.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: librender is now libvis, render method terminology becomes visualization method or vis
02:15.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: method for short.
02:16.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/configure.ac: changed to reflect libvis
02:17.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (25 files): removed
02:49.01*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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12:40.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/Makefile.in: Not needed
12:48.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Not needed
12:58.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/ (zlib.h zconf.h): Update to zlib 1.2.2
13:00.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png/init.c: Use TKIMG_PNG_PACKAGE_NAME instead of PACKAGE_NAME
13:10.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (22 files in 5 dirs): Initial check-in
13:12.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (aclocal.m4 ANNOUNCE Reorganization.Notes.txt ChangeLog): Not needed
13:16.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/util/ (png-pix.c pix-png.c bw-png.c): Modified to use bu_getopt
13:21.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/bgerror.tcl: Check for the existence of App::gui before using
13:26.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl GeometryEditFrame.tcl pkgIndex.tcl tclIndex): Mods to accommodate the fact that strings like SystemWindow are not recognized on platforms other than Windows
13:31.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/Makefile.am: Add archer, sdialogs and swidgets to SUBDIRS
13:38.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/tcl/ (Makefile.in configure configure.in): Not needed
13:39.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/tcl/ (Makefile.in configure configure.in): Not needed
13:44.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/Makefile.am: Remove -static option from libtk_la_LDFLAGS so shared libs get built
13:46.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/tcl/pngtcl.c: These mods don't matter. This entire directory is going away
13:55.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (acconfig.h aclocal.m4 configure configure.in Makefile.in): Not needed
13:57.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/Makefile.in: Not needed
13:59.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/Makefile.am: Add TKIMGDIR and BLTDIR
14:01.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Mods for running on non-Windows platforms
14:06.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA.tcl: Mods to use bu_brlcad_data
14:09.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: Add archer to kitchensink_dirs
14:10.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Makefile.am: Add archer to SUBDIRS
14:12.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.in: Not needed
14:18.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add support for tkimg, blt, sdialogs, swidgets and archer
14:25.03``Erikset
14:28.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: Add archer_ack.txt to documentation_DATA
14:46.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/ (79 files in 22 dirs): Initial check-in
14:51.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.am: Initial check-in
15:23.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (zconf.h zlib.h): (late) update to zlib 1.2.2
16:03.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (25 files): libvis->librender
16:11.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libvis/ (24 files): libvis->librender
16:13.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libvis/component.c: boogla
16:16.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (19 files in 12 dirs): reverted
16:18.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libvis->librender
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16:57.47mnemochi, sorry for the dumb question but... how is brl-cad started? :( it has hundred binaries :p
17:01.39brlcadmnemoc: depends which binary you want to start :)
17:01.51brlcadthere's not a hundred :)
17:02.08brlcadthere's over four hundred
17:02.44brlcadmnemoc: the main modeler is called 'mged', that's probably where you want to start
17:04.19mnemocthanks :D
17:13.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-png.c: use bu_optarg, bu_optind and bu_getopt
17:17.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (36 files): use bu_optarg, bu_optind and bu_getopt
17:27.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl: quick fix for the windows-specific symbols, just use the default colors
17:33.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: declare rtarea and rtweight (found by Karen Murray)
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18:44.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/bw-fb.c: needs bu.h for bu_getopt
18:49.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.c: needs bu.h for bu_getopt
18:53.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-fb.c: needs bu.h for bu_getopt
18:55.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fb-pix.c pix-fb.c): needs bu.h for bu_getopt
19:00.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (33 files): needs bu.h for bu_getopt
19:06.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (73 files): needs bu.h for bu_getopt
19:28.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: needs libbu
19:46.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: bu stuffage for bu_getopt
22:55.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/archer/Archer_Documentation.chm: Initial check-in
23:35.05``Erikdid sean say "who was that?" when I said "'night, dudes"? o.O
23:35.43brlcad:)
23:36.20``Erikuh huh, that and you were engrossed in bz
23:36.31brlcadwhat else?
23:36.32Twingyhehe
23:57.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/tcl/ (18 files in 3 dirs): Not needed
23:57.42Twingybr0k3n
23:58.18Twingyj/k ;)
23:58.25brlcadagar finally compiledthat's on a branch ;)
23:58.36Twingydoes it run?
23:58.40brlcadnope
23:58.43Twingyhehe
23:58.55Twingywhat's it complaining aboot?
23:58.59brlcadat least the stuff in tests won't compile
23:59.04brlcadmissing symbols of it's own
23:59.06Twingyah
23:59.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/tcl/ (18 files in 3 dirs): Not needed
23:59.09Twingymaybe I can fix
23:59.47*** part/#brlcad mnemoc (n=amery@200.75.27.91)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050922

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050922

00:01.28brlcaddoesn't look like it's anything too horrid to fix, but i'm spent -- time to go home
00:01.34Twingyk
00:08.52``Erikheh
00:09.25Twingygotta keep us coders plump and happy
00:09.36Twingy*grunt*
00:10.01``Erikdude, you're all rich having no family and a short drive to work and shit, quitcher whinin' :D
00:10.11Twingy:P
00:12.28Twingyerr uhh
00:13.01TwingyI love balmers nick name... mini-microsoft
00:13.27Twingy<drevil voice>he shall be called </drevil voice> mini microsoft
00:14.49``Erikheh
00:15.09``ErikI d'no, you think ballmer has the word "leaner" in his vocab?
00:15.12``Erik:)
00:15.51Twingyheh, only word that comes to mind is genocide
00:16.02Twingybut that's just me
00:16.47``Erikseen 'uncyclopedia'? it was pretty funny before it got on /., had lots of "steve ballmer quotes", which were basically f(x) "I'm going to kill that guy, I'm going to fucking kill %x, ..." or whatever the ballmer quote was, heh
00:17.06Twingyheh
00:17.26``Erikhttp://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ballmer
00:21.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: new dep on bu, still need to add a lot more
00:22.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (37 files): add bu.h for bu_getopt stuff
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01:00.35``Erikhttp://people.freebsd.org/~ssouhlal/stuff/ibrator.jpg pheer
01:01.13Twingyheh
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02:41.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Set brlDataPath depending on the platform
03:07.35PKMOBILEcan you try logging into the site? for some reason its not working for me
03:33.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Set brlcadDataPath depending on the platform
03:39.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Change brlDataPath to brlcadDataPath
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11:47.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: reorganize the whole lot of sources/ldadd descriptors so that they are sorted. add libbu as a dep for the bu_getopt mods
12:18.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: (log message trimmed)
12:18.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: Daniel Eischen on the FreeBSD project suggested using SIGINFO instead of calling
12:18.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: the the private _thread_dump_info() function. _thread_dump_info is/was provided
12:18.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: by the bsd c_r library which is not used in certain 5.* versions of bsd (e.g.
12:18.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 5.4 on amd64) when using the -pthread option. since _thread_dump_info is called
12:18.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: when a SIGINFO is raised, it should be equivalent. probably drops support for
12:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: older bsd systems that predate sysinfo, but they'll probably require more work
12:20.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the signal.h header and raise(), used by libbu/parallel.c
12:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Minor cleanup
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18:00.53PKMOBILEbrlcad, learner, when ya get a chance can you try logging into the site? my password just stopped working for no apparent reason and its bothering the heck out of me
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23:52.28Twingyo.O
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050923

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050923

00:25.16Twingybrb
00:31.46*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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03:07.35PKMOBILEsweet
03:07.45PKMOBILEi figured out a way to get in
03:07.52learneri got in no trouble
03:07.55learnerbut I use keys
03:08.51PKMOBILEi had no trouble getting in before and all of a sudden my password stopped working
03:09.35learnerwierd
03:09.50learnerdid you try one of the other login nodes?
03:10.03PKMOBILEyeah it was the password
03:10.09PKMOBILEsomething happened with it
03:10.23PKMOBILEso i used one from a different site
03:10.28PKMOBILEin encrypted form
03:11.41PKMOBILEheck i even saved the password and it just stopped working
03:11.43PKMOBILEweird stuff
03:13.59*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
03:16.46Twingymoo
03:19.54PKMOBILEoink
03:25.51Twingymmm bacon
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14:35.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: includes a benchmark performance analysis suite
20:22.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: FreeBSD renames libtcl8.4 to libtcl84
21:42.45*** join/#brlcad silvap_ (n=prasad@pool-151-196-29-221.balt.east.verizon.net)
22:08.32*** join/#brlcad YetAnotherEric (n=ewilhelm@pool-71-111-77-165.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
22:10.00YetAnotherErichello all
22:10.18YetAnotherEriclearner, good news with the uber-converter
22:11.05YetAnotherErichttp://xara.com/press/
22:11.54brlcadwoo
22:12.35brlcadYetAnotherEric: excellent
22:12.52silvap_batik and this = win ?
22:13.09YetAnotherEricnow if I could just get the same kind of support from the CAD side of things
22:13.44silvap_heh that was the project that got shot down by lee
22:13.51silvap_o well
22:13.58YetAnotherEricbatik?
22:14.23silvap_http://xml.apache.org/batik/
22:14.38YetAnotherEricyes, I see that.  But what = win?
22:15.22silvap_that was in regards to a java project that i'm involved in
22:15.37YetAnotherErico.
22:26.34``Erikvoluntarily?
22:26.36``Erikjava?
23:06.10silvap_no, M3
23:06.17silvap_exporting cell view as svg
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050924

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050924

00:22.58*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-22-70-133.balt.east.verizon.net)
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04:03.49Twingyhrm
04:03.57Twingyheh
04:04.02Twingyyetanothereric
04:23.42Twingysean, you got a pointer on how to setup a CIA bot for a cvs repo on irc?
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16:07.18YetAnotherEricTwingy, yeah?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050925

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050925

00:18.49*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
03:13.05PKMOBILEdrupal requires outgoing mail for passwords
03:13.13PKMOBILEwe aint got outgoing mails
03:13.16PKMOBILE*mail
03:40.42brlcadyep
03:41.02brlcadaccounts can be created through the web interface, though, iirc, yes?
03:41.24brlcadpresuming that's the case, accounts can be created by hand
03:53.42PKMOBILEyeah they can
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18:13.12AchiestDragonhi all
18:17.49AchiestDragondave@linux:~/Documents/usr/brlcad/bin> ./mged
18:17.49AchiestDragon./mged: error while loading shared libraries: libtermio.so.19: cannot open share                                    d object file: No such file or directory
18:18.13AchiestDragonguess i need to put it in the path statement someware ?
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20:55.32AchiestDragonwell , got it installed and working now :)
21:24.06AchiestDragonhmmm think i may have a list of feature requests
23:08.49AchiestDragonok , converted a dxf file to a .g file , loaded it into brlcad , and get nothing displayed , cannot seem to get it to raytrace eather , also get the same if loading any of the example files , but displays if i draw a object
23:10.02AchiestDragonsays 0 objects found when trying to raytrace
23:57.12*** join/#brlcad _AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
23:57.38_AchiestDragonumpf   dam , bang goes my uptime ,,
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050926

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050926

01:38.32brlcadAchiestDragon: mged doesn't display anything by default when you load a file
01:38.56AchiestDragonk, how do you get it to
01:39.05brlcadcontrary to other modelers, brl-cad's .g files may actually contain an arbitrary number of objects/parts/assemblies/etc
01:39.37brlcadthe 'tops' command will give you the starting list of top-level geometry objects in a geometry database
01:39.45brlcador the Misc->Geometry Browser too
01:39.48brlcadon the menu
01:41.26brlcadmost 'real' brl-cad .g files take a relatively long time to load sometimes too if they are highly detailed (models that would grind pro-E to a halt), so it's up to the modeler to decide when they want to view geometry
01:44.17brlcadfeature requests are very much appreciated.. also interested what you did to fix the libtermio.so.19 problem too.
01:45.07AchiestDragonthe fix for the lib was to unpack the zip in /usr  not /home/dave/usr
01:45.54brlcadahh
01:46.25AchiestDragonbiggest feature request at moment would be to reduce the number of open windows , its hard hunting for the right one when there all stacked
01:46.29brlcadyou could have set your LD_LIBRARY_PATH too
01:47.12brlcadwhat about going full-screen by default, would that help?
01:48.47AchiestDragonmaybe , it would have to have a split window system so that it say had 3 or 4 lines for the command and the rest for graphics space
01:49.21AchiestDragonguess its a long job redesigning the whole gui
01:49.32brlcadit is :)
01:49.46brlcadseveral years have gone into the new modeler's design already
01:51.01AchiestDragonyes , the program seems exelent , its the user interface and ease of use ( for those that like point and click ) that seems to be a letdown
01:51.08brlcadmged does have a mode where it will combine the command and graphics window into one, it's just not easily end-user accessible right now
01:51.50brlcadyeah, the interface of mged has always been minimal priority, more focus on validity of results, performance, flexibility, extensibility, etc
01:52.04brlcadit's a shame too, since that's the sole metric for many ;)
01:52.12brlcadbut understandable
01:52.18AchiestDragonyes
01:52.43brlcadthere's no reason (other than money/time) for a difficult interface
01:53.27brlcadcourse what's difficult for one might not be for others, the expert brl-cad modelers are rather efficient at using it as is (mostly sans mouse)
01:55.19AchiestDragon:) its fine once you get used to programs and use them every day , where the big corps offer training , but for open source its a case of download install and go , or not , as the case may be
01:56.28brlcadyeah
01:57.10brlcadfortunately, there are decent training materials available that were developed to teach the basics
01:57.35brlcada rare find for most open source projects (decent documentation) for all but the most mature/active
01:57.49brlcadyou did see the tutorial series on the website I hope?
01:57.56AchiestDragonyes
01:58.55AchiestDragonfound another bug ,, need to check see if its already reported
01:59.25AchiestDragonprogram exits if you try creating and extrude...
01:59.53brlcadahh, that's a very recent bug I just noticed last week myself
02:07.17*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
02:14.36AchiestDragonit locked up on me earlyer , had to hit the big red restart button ,was doing a raytrace and had  cpu usage saying 120% and no responce from mouse or keyboard
02:23.17brlcadwoah
02:28.12brlcadif you can find steps to repeat that one, that'd be rather high priority
02:28.45brlcadregardless, feel free to report that bug and/or any others to the bug tracker
02:30.54AchiestDragonhope not :),  had it set to photon mapping and changed the global photons to someting rather high
02:32.21AchiestDragonbut i think it was a ram limit , theres only 512mb ram on here and 2Gb swap allocated , and it looked like it was hitting the upper limit of the swap space also
02:35.15AchiestDragonthere is another , in the preferences , font settings ,font tools  the list of fonts in each "famaly" is longer than will display on the screen
02:38.00brlcadOOooh.. hehe photon mapping.. :)
02:38.10AchiestDragonif i set the font size to 8 or below i get more in each list but still miss quite a few
02:56.27AchiestDragoni know theres converters from autocad dxf with it but what about  blender and .pov file types
02:57.09brlcadthey do not yet exist, though they are on the wish/todo list
03:13.32EricWilhelmmine too
03:25.44brlcadsoon as I finish up with the .bzw converter, I'll be moving on to one of those two ..
03:27.21AchiestDragonkool
03:29.33AchiestDragonits 4:30 am here , time for bed for me , will play arround with it some more tomorow , try to get used to it some more then
03:35.09brlcadthanks for the feedbacks
03:35.11brlcadand reports
03:59.21*** join/#brlcad Semhirage (i=semhirag@unaffiliated/semhirage)
04:14.54*** join/#brlcad Semhirage (i=semhirag@unaffiliated/semhirage)
11:03.16AchiestDragonhmm , having fun , been trying to import dxf files into brlcad , ok so seem to endup with a mess , ok so it looks to be a problem with blender that i'm exporting them to dxf from , as it shows the same mess in autocad
11:26.38*** join/#brlcad cad462 (n=ca5e43fe@bz.bzflag.bz)
12:16.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/ (png.h pngconf.h): Updates for libpng 1.2.8
12:18.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/ (zlibtcl.c zlibtcl.h zlibtclStubLib.c): Get zlibtcl's package name from ZLIBTCL_PACKAGE_NAME
12:20.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/ (pngtcl.h pngtcl.c pngtclStubLib.c): Get pngtcl's package name from PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME
12:35.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtcl.c: Not exporting Png_Init
12:36.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtcl.c: Not exporting Z_Init
12:39.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png/init.c: Not exporting Tkimgpng_Init
12:42.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png/png.c: Minor mod to appease compiler
12:47.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/tkimgStubLib.c: Use TKIMG_PACKAGE_NAME
12:49.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/tkimg.c: Provide extern declarations for a few embedded packages
12:55.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/png.h: Exporting png_read_destroy and png_write_destroy (tkimg needs them)
13:01.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add haveSdb to Archer namespace; move code that sets haveSdb to LoadArcherLibs
13:07.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: Add code to set haveSdb; No longer need to load libpng and tkimgpng
13:12.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Change INSTALL_DIRECTORY
13:17.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Mods to reflect the move of zlib/tcl and libpng/tcl stuff to tkimg
13:27.25*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
13:28.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fast42g/.cvsignore: Initial check-in
15:18.46*** join/#brlcad cad105 (n=8f3494d3@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:18.55cad105hi ya
15:20.45BRLcad_firstdaythis is my first day using brlcad
16:49.58*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-29-221.balt.east.verizon.net)
17:50.10*** join/#brlcad knightstalker (n=knightst@200.226.146.230)
17:52.29knightstalkerhello;
17:52.29knightstalkerI'm new to brlcad. I'm running linux, but I'm thinking about using it in the university I work, and I have a question google couldn't answer me: are there any compiled package of brlcad for windows, or, is there a way to compile brlcad under windows? I found a precompiled package of a beta release of the 6.x series, but it asks me for a serial. Thanks
17:56.03MaloeranIt can be compiled on windows, there are Makefiles ( or the MSVC equivalent ) for this purpose
17:57.10brlcadknightstalker: the windows release is imminent
17:57.15brlcad~spell imminent
17:57.25knightstalkerso, with a port of GNU make for windows I can do the job of compilation? I've never done something like that :P
17:58.25brlcadknightstalker: you can use cygwin and get a full functioning build using the existing build
17:58.46brlcador.. you can use the msvc files in the BobWinPort branch
17:58.55brlcadand build everything using Studio
17:59.28knightstalkerack. I've heard of cygwin before, but I've never tried it....
17:59.29knightstalkerwell, I'll try that, all I need is something to show up to the boss
17:59.39brlcador.. you can ask for the alpha release zip if you want to alpha test :)
17:59.49knightstalkerI'll take a look at this
17:59.49knightstalkerthank you guys
17:59.57knightstalkerhey, you do have it?
18:00.02brlcadyup
18:00.08knightstalkerwoa, please
18:00.12brlcad:)
18:00.20knightstalker"can I have the alpha zip release?"
18:00.21knightstalker:P
18:00.35brlcadit's not been tested much, but it should work
18:03.42knightstalkerbut I'm afraid I can't download it right now
18:04.20knightstalkerI'm on a dial-up connection now, and if I download it in this computer I won't be able to take it to home
18:04.33brlcadokay
18:04.47brlcadit's about 14M fwiw
18:05.02knightstalkerit would be too much to ask to put it on a server, like sourceforge
18:05.13knightstalkerso, I'll come back later
18:05.37brlcadi'm uploading it to one of our mirrors now
18:05.48brlcadbut it's not going to go up on sf.net until it's been tested some more
18:05.52knightstalkerhey, thanks man
18:06.05knightstalkerplease, tell me what's the address
18:06.25knightstalkerso I'd proud of downloading it and testing it for you
18:06.25brlcadone sec
18:06.28knightstalker:P
18:10.16brlcadit'll be at http://ftp.brlcad.org/private/BRL-CAD_win32_20050916.zip in about a minute, I'll leave it up there until a new build replaces it
18:10.27knightstalkerwoa; ok
18:10.32knightstalkerthank you
18:10.34knightstalkerso much
18:10.52brlcadjust please report back any issues you run into
18:11.08knightstalkerI'll download it, and show to the guys there
18:11.09knightstalkerok, I'll do my best
18:11.17knightstalkerthanks again
18:13.43brlcadno problem
18:14.01knightstalkeroops,
18:14.18knightstalkerit returns a 550 error: no such file or directory
18:14.25brlcad"about a minute"
18:14.31brlcadit's there now
18:14.32knightstalkerok
18:14.43brlcadnot ftp
18:14.53knightstalkerack, http
18:15.05brlcadyou have to type the http:// prefix
18:15.16knightstalkerok
18:15.37brlcadI presume you've found the manuals on the website?
18:15.53knightstalkeryeah
18:16.06knightstalkerI've read some, but not all
18:16.19brlcadthey are pretty much required reading for unfamiliar users ;)
18:16.38knightstalkerI was more intersted in the one about conversion between files
18:16.38brlcadmged is not really 'discoverable' like it should be
18:17.35knightstalkeryeah, but I like it, he is somehow cool, the command-line interface where you type the commands and the visual window where things appear
18:18.22knightstalkerperhaps someday it'll have an full OpenGL interface, such as the one Blender have
18:19.14knightstalkersay, that isn't a bad idea? something more... interactive
18:19.33brlcadit's under development
18:19.46brlcadthere's a soon to be released tool that does the shaded displays
18:20.14brlcadand a full replacement modeler under development that will fully replace mged but that's at least a year out
18:20.21knightstalkerwoa... I really need to read some changelogs and to go down into the source tree lol
18:20.32brlcadthe soon to be released tool will probably be ready in a month or two
18:20.39brlcadplease do ;)
18:20.49brlcadI'm always open to new developers
18:21.21brlcadthe package is broad-scoping enough for pretty much any skill set ;)
18:21.28knightstalkerI'd like to contribute with something, but I'm not with the time to do it
18:21.32knightstalkerI'm trying a degree in one university, and I work in another one
18:22.05knightstalkerperhaps at the end of the year, when I'll be off the two
18:22.07AchiestDragonwell you got a willing beta tester for the new modeler
18:22.42knightstalkersure thing, I'd like to see it and do some stuff too
18:23.46knightstalkerwell, g2g guys
18:23.50knightstalkerc ya later
18:23.55knightstalkerand, thanks again
18:23.59knightstalkerCiao
18:28.39AchiestDragonshame im no good at C or C++
18:32.39archivist_3well download the source, read and learn
18:36.24brlcadAchiestDragon: damn shame
18:36.28AchiestDragonits years since i did any C , i gave up on C++
18:37.03brlcadyou know tcl? sh? perl? html? english?  I'm sure there's a lang that we could find where help is needed :)
18:37.29AchiestDragonpython
18:38.40brlcadthat works ;)
18:39.45AchiestDragonassembler on z80, 68000, amd29000 , pdp11 ,pic microcontrlers , and others but not iX86 if i can help it  
18:41.13AchiestDragoni can read and follow C and C++ (mostly) but know i would have problems writing code
18:43.53brlcadhave you used simh?
18:44.09AchiestDragonive been trying to learn qt3 but since kde is moving to qt4 for kde 4 its all change , got good at designing frontends for gui's but getting the programs to do someting when i press a button is a diferent matter
18:44.57AchiestDragonno to simh
18:45.42brlcadit's a historic computing simulation virtual machine framework
18:45.56brlcadyou can run a vax, pdp11, etc
18:46.21brlcadi compiled it up a few years ago, ran the vax simulator, installed bsd, compiled brl-cad on it .. fun :)
18:46.25AchiestDragonused stuff similar to it
18:47.29AchiestDragongave my pdp11/03 and pdp11/23 to a musem about 8 years ago now
18:47.30brlcadi'd love to get the simulator time-synced so that we can recompute the BRL-CAD Benchmarks again, get a VGR performance metric of '1'
18:47.45brlcadhttp://simh.trailing-edge.com/
18:48.47AchiestDragonbrb
20:58.41AchiestDragonback
21:01.26AchiestDragoni used to run povray on a old xt  an 8086 with 8087 co proc  24hrs for a 640*480 res output was common on complex images , :) would be a few seconds on current machines for the same res
21:02.55MaloeranWith the amount of ram these boxes had, it couldn't have been too complex :)
21:03.44AchiestDragonwell a complex image then was 8 interwoven transperent torus's
21:04.29brlcadheh
21:05.14brlcadthe brl-cad benchmark images used to take about week to render all of them on the vax 11/780
21:05.41brlcad(5 512x512 images back then)
21:06.00MaloeranThe pre-Justin ray-tracer is quite slow though
21:06.14AchiestDragonyes some would , but 24 hrs was the maximum i would run , needed to use the machine for other things
21:07.32AchiestDragonbut you could stop it tracing , and restart it later , so over night was the time it got ,
21:09.48AchiestDragonbtw i have only come across  1 3d editor that i liked , but unfortunatly its not got full ray trace options and is limited to be a addition to a pcb package for doing board visulisation
21:11.23archivist_3which pcb package?
21:11.29brlcadMaloeran: i'd be very interested in seeing a comparison of the two that produces pixel-identical results
21:11.50AchiestDragonblender has alot of good features , but a intreface so bad that it takes you longer to remeber what mode you need to be in for the key to work
21:11.55*** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-221.dialin.iskon.hr)
21:12.17MaloeranI was refering to the brlcad's ray-tracer before Justin's, not mine there, if it wasn't clear
21:12.35brlcadif you simplify the problem, of course it's going to run faster -- having it outperform on equivalent inputs will the be the real interesting test to me
21:12.38AchiestDragonautotrax , its got a package bundled called active3d, its a doddle to use
21:12.40brlcadyeah, I mean that too
21:13.28docelicGood evening gentlemen
21:13.41docelicFolks, do you know the exact name of a project similar to Grass (that's what I remember first associating it with), but it's primary use was for water & depth, and was named something like SeaCad or SeaDac or something like that.. I searched for months and I wasnt able to locate it again..
21:14.33brlcadMaloeran: it should still outperform (both yours or his), but whether it's incredibly faster when it's doing equivalent work is unproven yet
21:15.26MaloeranIt's certain that having a wider range of primitives than triangles complexify the tracing task
21:15.38brlcadtriangles are something the brl-cad does not deal with well at all, and something that has historically not been developed, so comparing an rt-raytraced BoT model to that in adrt is not exactly apples to apples
21:19.06AchiestDragontriangles are on of the reasons that blender dosent do a good job , and that meshes and sphears in it never seem to have have true curves
21:19.53brlcadi'm a bit tempted to take a traditional csg model and incrementally facetize the heck out of it, comparing the raytrace results of rt to your tracer to see just what level of facetization is required to get the same results
21:20.00brlcadMaloeran: you have phong implemented?
21:20.33MaloeranSure
21:20.39brlcadcool
21:20.57brlcadmaybe at some point down the road
21:22.01MaloeranThis should be interesting. Performance isn't really related to the global triangle count, but to the spatial complexity in the vicinity of the rays
21:24.28brlcadyeah, hence just a "traditional csg model" .. i can imagine some pathalogically bad cases where a triangle-only tracer would just crumple to get pixel-accurate results, sphere flake for example or something with higher curvature
21:24.57brlcadand then there's the memory/disk tradeoff
21:37.02AchiestDragongrr im raytracing the demo db   (m35.g) with photon mapping and forgot to note the start time  
21:38.00AchiestDragon10:34 or 10:35 but can't remember witch
21:39.16AchiestDragonto 10:40 so about 5 mins not bad realy
21:55.25brlcadheh, the photon mapping is pretty slow :)
21:56.20brlcadbut 5 min isn't "too" bad for a pseudo gloabal illum render
21:59.41pra5adsean, who at work is a custom PC builder person?
21:59.58pra5adi know most of u are macphiles
22:11.45AchiestDragonno i use pc's
22:16.33AchiestDragontheres a number of ways to optimize rendering , but some can take more effort than thay gain in effectivness , it can depend verry much in the sceen beeing rendered
22:17.30AchiestDragonfor animation though theres a number of diferent ways to optimise that can be verry effective
22:17.52*** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-221.dialin.iskon.hr)
22:20.57AchiestDragonhmmm just debating if its crashed ,, i got the message  Irradience Cache Progress :100% about 10 mins ago , and the cpu usage is still close to 100% and still wating for it to finish
22:37.44*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@66.15.214.167)
22:46.11brlcadpra5ad: just cause I prefer the simplicity of a mac doesn't mean I haven't built my fair share of boxes from scratch over the years
22:46.38brlcadI just value my time way more than the 'savings'
22:47.08brlcadanyways.. half the people in the building are :P
22:48.40brlcadAchiestDragon: I doubt it's stuck .. the only bug I know of right now that causes a crash is using the cache file
22:59.43AchiestDragontoo late stoped it anyway
23:05.13AchiestDragonstarted it again
23:05.30brlcadhow many photons?
23:10.49AchiestDragon32768
23:24.19AchiestDragonok maybe , i closed the app , killed the rt prog then restarted it  its taken 20 mins so far to get 25%
23:30.04AchiestDragontime for a coffee i think
23:38.09*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-22-10-98.balt.east.verizon.net)
23:40.53AchiestDragonhmm and problems with the win32 version ,,,  rt  can't connect to fb server  on host "localhost", port "5561"
23:43.57AchiestDragonwas only doing a basic full render on the windows box
23:51.14AchiestDragon:)   now archer looks kool
23:52.11AchiestDragonbrlcad:  is archer also avalable for the linux version ???
23:55.34brlcadAchiestDragon: what do you mean?
23:55.40brlcadarcher is platform agnostic
23:56.11brlcada release hasn't been made yet that includes archer .. it's only recently starting to get merged in to cvs
23:56.49AchiestDragonthinks i need to update to the cvs version
23:57.04brlcadarcher's not on head yet :)
23:57.33brlcadit's all in a branch, if you want to take a peek -- all very untested and integrated so far :)
23:57.55brlcadbut if you're interested, it's in the BobWinPort branch
23:59.17AchiestDragoni downloaded the win port version from the link you gave earlyer today , thats where i found it
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050927

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050927

00:00.25brlcadyeah, that's not yet released
00:00.47brlcadthat's effectively what's on that branch, though
00:02.38AchiestDragonwill it compile for linux or is it just for win at the moment
00:04.46brlcadi haven't tested building that branch recently, it's being left somewhat alone so the dev can make the windows release more easily
00:05.01AchiestDragonk
00:05.10brlcadarcher itself isn't a porting/compiling issue -- it'll just work
00:05.33brlcadthe bigger untested question is if all the Makefile.am's are updated with the right stuff so that it actually makes it through the build
00:06.01brlcadI believe he recently did a test on linux, so it should be working
00:06.38*** join/#brlcad cad787 (n=18112236@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:06.46cad787hello
00:06.49brlcadhello
00:07.03cad787I can't get BRL-CAD to work on Mac OS X.
00:07.08docelichello
00:07.47brlcadcad787: run /Applications/Utilities/X11 and type /usr/brlcad/bin/mged in the xterm that opens up
00:07.54cad787oh
00:07.57cad787ill try
00:08.29brlcadthat surprisingly seems to be the question of the month.. :)
00:09.10tegtmeyemr. brlcad... I can't get BRLCAD to *compile* on Mac OSX...:)
00:09.18brlcadcad787, the X11 dependency will be going away shortly, but right now it's required
00:09.33brlcadtegtmeye: really?  what's it saying?
00:09.55tegtmeyestill the same old Framework complaints...
00:10.08brlcadooh, you mean adrt
00:10.50tegtmeyewell, actually, I just downgraded to a previous version from Justin and haven't updated in a while... JK
00:11.07tegtmeyeit was BRLCAD though...
00:11.38brlcadthat's a slightly different ball of wax ..
00:12.16brlcadedit src/adrt/isst/master/Makefile.am and change isst_master_LDFLAGS = -static to isst_master_LDFLAGS = -static -framework Python
00:12.23brlcadand
00:12.49brlcadisst_master_CFLAGS = @SDL_CFLAGS@ -D__STRICT_ANSI__ -I.. -I${top_srcdir}/src/adrt/libtie -I${top_srcdir}/src/adrt/libtienet -I${top_srcdir}/src/adrt/libtexture -I${top_srcdir}/src/adrt/libcommon -I${top_srcdir}/src/adrt/librender -I${top_srcdir}/src/adrt/libutil -I${top_srcdir}/src/adrt/isst
00:13.15tegtmeyeis this in cvs?
00:13.28brlcadedit src/adrt/isst/master/isst_python.c and make #include "Python.h" read #include <Python/Python.h>
00:13.39brlcadwhat do you mean?
00:14.03tegtmeyeif it is in cvs, I'll just update...
00:14.10brlcadno, it's not
00:14.14tegtmeyek
00:14.30brlcadrequires configure.ac changes that haven't gotten to
00:14.37tegtmeyegotcha
00:14.37brlcads/changes/checks/
00:15.00brlcadsince -framework Python isn't exactly going to do anything useful on non-mac ;)
00:15.38AchiestDragongrrr cvs problems    cvs [login aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any)
00:15.50brlcadyou should be able to get away with just running make twice without rerunning autogen.sh/configure after making those edits on mac
00:16.07AchiestDragonafter hitting return at password prompt
00:16.08brlcadAchiestDragon: sourceforge is like that sometimes, just keep retrying
00:18.55*** join/#brlcad cad863 (n=18112236@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:19.15cad863i left...i was the one with the problem running brl-cad
00:19.30cad863so, does the app need to be in a certain folder?
00:19.59AchiestDragondave@linux:~/brlcad> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad co -P brlcad
00:19.59AchiestDragoncan't create temporary directory /tmp/cvs-serv817
00:19.59AchiestDragonToo many links
00:20.02brlcadcad863: brl-cad is actually several hundred apps total..
00:20.16brlcadmm youngins with no patience
00:20.54brlcadAchiestDragon: heh, yeah.. looks like cvs.sf.net is a bit overloaded at the moment
00:21.08*** join/#brlcad cad684 (n=18112236@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:21.31cad684sorry, its the guy with the app-running problem again... the internet was messed up for a sec where i am
00:21.40cad684so wat is the command to run it again?
00:21.42brlcadcad684: brl-cad is actually several hundred apps total.. and yes the binary installers do expect to go to a specific location
00:22.27brlcadto run the modeler, it's called 'mged' -- brl-cad installs to /usr/brlcad by default, so running /usr/brlcad/bin/mged from xterm should start it up
00:22.39cad684ok
00:22.42cad684ill try it now
00:22.58tegtmeyebrlcad, rise/observer ld is still complaining but the patch seemed to work on isst, no biggie tho, I don't use it...
00:23.13brlcadwhat's the error?
00:23.13tegtmeye_IOCreatePlugInInterfaceForService
00:23.13tegtmeye_IOIteratorNext
00:23.13tegtmeye_IOMasterPort
00:23.13tegtmeye_IOObjectRelease
00:23.13tegtmeye_IORegistryEntryCreateCFProperties
00:23.14tegtmeye_IORegistryEntryGetParentEntry
00:23.16tegtmeye_IOServiceGetMatchingServices
00:23.18tegtmeye_IOServiceMatching
00:23.18brlcadahh
00:23.20tegtmeye_HideMenuBar
00:23.22tegtmeye_ShowMenuBar
00:23.23cad684it works :D
00:23.24tegtmeye_CDSequenceEnd
00:23.26tegtmeyeand lots others...
00:23.46brlcadcad684: there are manuals/tutorials on the website at http://brlcad.org to get you started
00:23.54brlcadsee the intro to mged
00:24.26cad684hanks
00:25.04brlcadtegtmeye: what's the compile line?  it needs to be sdl-config --static-libs not --libs
00:25.35tegtmeyehold on to your butt...
00:25.42tegtmeyegcc -I/sw/include -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -g -O3 -ffast-math -fstrength-reduce -fexpensive-optimizations -finline-functions -fno-omit-frame-pointer -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -Wl,-search_paths_first -mdynamic-no-pic -g -O3 -ffast-ma
00:25.51tegtmeyeerr...
00:26.09tegtmeyebunch of stuff... what are you looking for?
00:26.15brlcadi know you work on gcc and all, but I dont' think -ffast-ma is valid ;)
00:26.35tegtmeyelol
00:26.44brlcadlooking for `sdl-config ...` in the compile line
00:26.59brlcador python-config
00:27.07tegtmeyenegative...
00:27.23brlcadlook at the libtool line that preceeded it
00:28.10tegtmeyenope. it is ld that is complaining in gcc
00:28.26tegtmeyemaking clean...
00:28.41brlcadit will be ld that ultimately complains, missing -framework lines
00:29.00tegtmeyeinsert wrong answer buzz sound here...
00:29.25tegtmeye-o rise_observer -static -framework Python rise_observer-main.o
00:29.59brlcadahh, sdl-config is already expanded..
00:30.13tegtmeyeise_observer-observer.o -L/sw/lib -lSDLmain -lSDL -framework Cocoa -framework OpenGL
00:30.30tegtmeye... in libtool...
00:30.49brlcadyeah, already expanded, that's nfg
00:31.47brlcadrun this:
00:31.49brlcad/bin/sh ../../../../libtool --mode=link gcc  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -Wl,-search_paths_first -g  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fPIC -Wl,-search_paths_first -g -o rise_observer -static rise_observer-main.o rise_observer-observer.o -L/sw/lib -lSDLmain -lSDL -framework Cocoa -framework OpenGL ../../../../src/adrt/libtienet/libtienet.la ../../../../src/adrt/libtie/libtie.la ../../../
00:32.02brlcadfrom adrt/rise/observer
00:33.33brlcadheh, or the shorthand variant
00:33.35brlcadmake LDFLAGS="`sdl-config --static-libs`"
00:34.08tegtmeyeusing make version...
00:34.15tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::deallocate(void*, unsigned long)
00:34.15tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_force_new
00:34.15tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_free_list
00:34.15tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_node_allocator_lock
00:34.15tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::allocate(unsigned long)
00:34.16tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_refill(unsigned long)
00:34.18tegtmeyecollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
00:34.42tegtmeyeerr...
00:34.43tegtmeyeUndefined symbols:
00:34.44tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::deallocate(void*, unsigned long)
00:34.44tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_force_new
00:34.44tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_free_list
00:34.44tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_node_allocator_lock
00:34.45tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::allocate(unsigned long)
00:34.47tegtmeyeAchiestDragon::__default_alloc_template<true, 0>::_S_refill(unsigned long)
00:34.55tegtmeyecollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
00:35.14AchiestDragonso is me
00:35.16tegtmeyeyea, me too
00:35.36brlcadhappen to have tabs in that output? :)
00:35.50tegtmeyepasted "std::++default..."
00:35.59tegtmeyeshouldn't
00:36.11brlcadwierd
00:36.12tegtmeyewhatever, that was a std::__default... in there
00:36.33tegtmeye:)
00:36.41brlcadhmm.. your'e using gcc 4?
00:36.51tegtmeyeyea, Tiger...
00:37.11brlcadand that /sw/lib sdl was built pre-tiger wasn't it ..
00:37.39tegtmeyeI'm not using this so don't kill yourself to fix it if you have other things going on..
00:37.41tegtmeyeyea
00:37.48brlcadthose are c++ template incompatibilities
00:37.57brlcad3.3 -> 4.0
00:38.12tegtmeyeahhh, your righ....
00:38.13Twingywoo, js.cx is up
00:38.25tegtmeyeactually,
00:38.47brlcadtegtmeye: if you gcc_select 3.3 and rebuild everything, it should work ;)
00:39.04tegtmeyewell, the source ones were build with 4.0, but if fink pulled something in binary then prob. no
00:39.21brlcadthat was what was going on up at nist actually when I had to rebuild everything
00:39.47tegtmeyeahh, I'm not sure it is that important to me though...
00:39.55brlcadprolly not
00:39.57brlcadyou have the libs
00:40.06tegtmeyeexactly...
00:41.37tegtmeyeJustin, what is the last triple in your .frame file?
00:42.04Twingyuh
00:42.37Twingytilt, perspective, depth_of_field
00:42.41Twingyall angles
00:45.03tegtmeyeahh, thought last was up, for an interesting picture try camera,0.0,0.1,10.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,20.0,10.0 using bench
00:45.25tegtmeyelooks like an eye...
00:47.22tegtmeyeat 4k rays per sec...
00:48.25tegtmeyeAlso,
00:48.50tegtmeyecamera,0.0,0.0,10.0,0.0,0.0,-10.0,0.0,20.0,0.0 renders black
00:49.37tegtmeyewhere camera,0.0,0.1,10.0... is fine. Future issues though...
00:57.24AchiestDragonsourceforge cvs still busy by looks
01:03.02AchiestDragon2am here makes it 8pm central us time so guess it wil be busy for another 2 to 4 hrs
01:04.31brlcadit's usually a configuration problem, they don't usually have trouble with capacity
01:04.50AchiestDragondave@linux:~/brlcad> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad co -P brlcad
01:04.50AchiestDragoncan't create temporary directory /tmp/cvs-serv10959
01:04.50AchiestDragonToo many links
01:06.26brlcadyeah, i'm seeing that here too on anonymous
01:08.19AchiestDragonsvn is better
01:09.17brlcadthat it is
01:09.57AchiestDragononce you done a svn checkout its just a case of changing into one of the dirs and doing  >  svn up , no messing arround loging in and trying to remeber the dirs ect
01:09.59brlcadsourceforge has been trying to bring svn on-line for a couple years now, apparently not stable enough yet for the volume of use they need
01:10.35brlcadonce you do a cvs checkout, that's pretty much the case too
01:10.54brlcadthe benefit of svn is the changeset management, handling of dirs and file movements
01:36.57AchiestDragon>From now on cvs users won't be able to access repository. How to solve this
01:36.57AchiestDragonproblem? There is a cvs server option which allow us to use another temporary
01:36.57AchiestDragondirectory. Just create /usr/cvsroot/cvstmp directory and append following
01:36.58AchiestDragonstring to your cvspserver line: "-T /usr/cvsroot/cvstmp"
01:37.47AchiestDragonlooks like is a DOS fix that was done to the cvs , but it only tells you how to fix it from the sever end
01:40.53brlcadyeah, we don't have access to that -- it's still just temporary
01:41.04brlcadanonymous is only updated every 5 hours or so
01:42.44brlcadAchiestDragon: did you want cvs HEAD or BobWinPort ?
01:43.29AchiestDragonone with archer and for linux
01:47.55brlcadAchiestDragon: here's a HEAD checkout http://ftp.brlcad.org/private/brlcad-cvs-HEAD-20050926.tar.gz
01:48.30brlcadbut since you want archer, that's in BobWinPort.. be a few min to update to it
01:48.34AchiestDragonk
01:49.08brlcads/BobWinPort/bobWinPort/g
01:50.13AchiestDragonHEAD downloaded
01:58.52brlcadother one's ready, same url, just replace HEAD with bobWinPort
02:00.29AchiestDragonk
02:20.24AchiestDragonpng.c: In function `SetupPngLibrary':
02:20.24AchiestDragonpng.c:111: error: `PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME' undeclared (first use in this function)
02:20.24AchiestDragonpng.c:111: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
02:20.24AchiestDragonpng.c:111: error: for each function it appears in.)
02:20.24AchiestDragonmake[4]: *** [png.lo] Error 1
02:20.25AchiestDragonmake[4]: Leaving directory `/home/dave/dev/brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png'
02:21.28brlcadnot too surprising, but easy to work around :)
02:21.32AchiestDragonthis is on the bobwinport branch
02:21.48brlcadmake CFLAGS=-DPNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME=pngtcl
02:23.33AchiestDragonwell a bit further but not much  
02:23.35AchiestDragonpng.c: In function `SetupPngLibrary':
02:23.35AchiestDragonpng.c:111: error: `pngtcl' undeclared (first use in this function)
02:31.35brlcadyeah, that's the symbol we just defined, probably needs to have a decl in a header
02:31.46brlcadlooks like the branch needs some work
02:32.18AchiestDragonhmm
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02:34.54brlcadAchiestDragon: i'll be taking a look at it some this week going through some test builds, so it should be all better soon
02:34.57AchiestDragonmaybe not , looks like its a dependancy problem for pngtcl
02:35.33brlcad'pngtcl' was just a name I made up
02:35.52AchiestDragonThe package 'pngtcl' depends on 'zlibtcl' and has to be built after
02:35.52AchiestDragonit. Beyond that the order of building is free. Their TEA build systems
02:35.52AchiestDragoncan be found in the directories listed above.
02:36.26brlcador it conveniently overlaps the real tcl package name ;)
02:40.52AchiestDragonwell make fails doing this make[4]: Entering directory `/home/dave/dev/brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png
02:41.39brlcadyeah, thats very new stuff
02:41.46brlcadstuff archer uses
02:41.49AchiestDragoncan i disable ping support
02:42.02AchiestDragon* png
02:42.04brlcadnope
02:42.32AchiestDragonk
02:42.34brlcadand that's just a submodule to tkimage, but it's the hooks/interface to libpng
02:42.54brlcadit's what makes the graphic buttons, and other icons/images in archer
02:43.20brlcadi'm sure it's just simple build/makefile issues to get it working
02:43.27brlcadbut I can't look at it just this second
03:00.14AchiestDragonnp , am looking here but this one has lost me , found the line  :-
03:00.16AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
03:01.33AchiestDragonbut    (png.c:111: error: `PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME' undeclared (first use in this function) )    ok so wheres the PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME come from , its not in the file
03:05.00brlcadyes?Png_InitStubs is a macro
03:05.19brlcadpngtcl.h
03:05.53brlcad#define Png_InitStubs(interp, version, exact) \
03:05.53brlcad<PROTECTED>
03:05.54brlcad#endif
03:48.10AchiestDragonok ,, seems it may not of been defined right ,, PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME is used but is not defined and has no type allocation should be char and defined somewhere if i recall  
03:53.28brlcadthat was why I had you add the -D to CFLAGS
03:53.52brlcadit's supposed to be a preprocessor symbol provided by the compiler or a header
04:00.59AchiestDragonok , so the    Tcl_PkgRequire(interp, XXXX, version, exact) is found in 7 diferent headers , but in all but 2 the XXXX is >> "diferent text in quotes " , looks like there diferent object orientated stuff
04:04.54PKMOBILEhey brlcad / learner, what content can i be adding while i work on making this thing pretty?
04:14.31AchiestDragonok found a definition for it :(
04:14.34AchiestDragonPreprocessorDefinitions="WIN32;NDEBUG;_WINDOWS;BUILD_tkimg;BUILD_pngtcl;BUILD_zlibtcl;TKIMG_VERSION=\&quot;1.3\&quot;;TKIMG_PACKAGE_NAME=\&quot;Tkimg\&quot;;TKIMG_PNG_PACKAGE_NAME=\&quot;Tkimgpng\&quot;;ZLIBTCL_PACKAGE_NAME=\&quot;Zlibtcl\&quot;;PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME=\&quot;Pngtcl\&quot;"
04:15.51AchiestDragonso replacing    PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME  with  "Pngtcl" should do it
04:16.15learner:)
04:16.41learnerPKMOBILE, start with the existing content
04:17.08PKMOBILEthe stuff on the current site?
04:17.16learneryeah
04:17.25PKMOBILEokie dokie
04:18.06learnerthere's more to add, much more, but starting with just wrapping what we have in a framework is good
04:23.56PKMOBILEok
04:24.23PKMOBILEim learning drupal's style which is quite a bit different from XOOPS...
04:27.01learnercool
05:09.56AchiestDragon:) well not many changes to get it to make ok
05:16.53AchiestDragonso replacing    PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME  with  "Pngtcl"   2 files 3 enteries  and ZLIBTCL_PACKAGE_NAME to "Zlibtcl" in another 2 files 3 enteries total
05:18.22AchiestDragonand commenting out a "error" in another file   that had a coment saying if you encounter an error here read the install notes near the end , but no note there
06:05.08AchiestDragonshame that all i get is a empty window when running archer :(
06:06.19AchiestDragonlooks like errors in the tcl files not the c ,,, never done any tcl so stuck
07:30.42AchiestDragonBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 2412
09:10.10archivist_37960
13:24.32brlcadarchivist_3: that's pretty impressive -- dual amd?
13:28.32archivist_3er what? that no was randome from my server, I wasnt in the building
13:29.28archivist_3actually a barcode reader in series with the kb
13:29.56archivist_3or a ghost
13:30.02brlcadheh
13:31.11brlcadwas going to say.. those numbers you generally don't see on a dual, would need to be a quad or greater
13:33.09archivist_3hehe its a 1 gig amd with windoze and the barcode scanner has been annoying me for nearly 2 yrs but i need a power down to remove
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17:11.45AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot2.png  :(
17:59.03brlcadAchiestDragon: hehe, at least you got the window ;)
17:59.28AchiestDragon:)
18:04.09AchiestDragonbtw i'm hoping that in the long run i will be able to draw something using bricad and export it to dxf for a cnc router http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/
18:04.23Twingy_mmm cnc
18:04.33Twingy_AchiestDragon: which kind you got?
18:04.58AchiestDragonone about half built at moment , see last link for pic
18:05.39brlcadAchiestDragon: pretty neat custom setup there ;)
18:06.02brlcadso how are you planning on driving it?
18:06.08brlcadg-code? :)
18:06.10Twingy_I want to get my hands on a 5-axis
18:06.24AchiestDragonits a prototype , once i get that working i will be welding a propper frame together
18:06.55Twingy_got any pics of the setup?
18:07.32MaloeranAhah, neat
18:07.49Twingy_ah, other link
18:07.52AchiestDragong code , theres emc for linux
18:08.37Twingy_I would need something with a significantly larger domain for Z
18:08.50AchiestDragoni have kcam for windows , autocad , 3ds , and a number of other cad programs that i can use for generating code also
18:10.14brlcadAchiestDragon: you're not the first to suggest using brl-cad for cnc, sounds like a great plan to me -- waiting for someone to make it a reality ;)
18:11.12Twingy_here's a cheap one
18:11.16Twingy_http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-WALTER-CNC-5-AXIS-HELITRONIC-MINI-POWER_W0QQitemZ7548973128QQcategoryZ12580QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
18:11.16AchiestDragonwell been playing with doing that using blender , but blender has big dxf export bugs , and theres no way to get the size right in blender
18:12.59archivistexport to STL, dxf is often borked
18:13.17Twingy_it was written 10 years ago and Ton hasn't touched it since
18:14.15MaloeranMost Blender exporters are broken in my experience, the 3ds one eats triangles upon saving
18:14.34Twingy_*shrug* it's open source, fix it
18:15.46AchiestDragonand it introduces some unwanted lines in exporting that are verry problamatic if you want to cnc the shape
18:16.13Twingy_mal, register your nick
18:16.33Twingy_ooh, one sec
18:17.51AchiestDragonie draw mesh , export it looks fine , send it to cnc , starts by cutting a hole in the middle of the work , milling accoss to the corner , then does a good job of the mesh , and just before finishing machines a big cross accross the work
18:18.24archivistthat may be the machines fault as well
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18:18.58AchiestDragonno its some extra paths that end up in the blender dxf export of the mesh
18:19.21AchiestDragonhave to sift though the g-code and manualy remove them
18:19.41brlcadI don't think the machine should be healing the geometry for you, and without that exporting arbitrary meshes isn't going to fly without ensuring a solid model and export that retains solidity
18:19.46archivisti had a dxf fix script once
18:20.07AchiestDragonwith 1 mesh its not too bad , but when you have to stich a few together its a pain
18:20.15brlcadyeah
18:21.19AchiestDragonbbl , need to call shop
18:21.20brlcadthat distinction is one of the reasons (among many) that solid modelers are not in the same category as animation modelers
18:22.25archivisthehe yes line ends need to meet exactly (buggers a laser cutter if they dont)
21:12.20AchiestDragonbk
21:13.56AchiestDragonre using brlcad for doing cnc , well ok going to give it a go , but might involve a few feature requests
21:16.26brlcadif you happen to have a reference to the g-code format, that could make writing a converter easier
21:18.52AchiestDragoni will have a look for info
21:19.21archivistthere are some free resources available
21:20.49AchiestDragonthers references in linuxcnc , on the wiki and in the handbook
21:21.36AchiestDragonhttp://linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_3TOC.html
21:23.48brlcadhey, I think I know her
21:27.24AchiestDragonwho
21:27.36brlcadelena messina
21:27.53AchiestDragonk , kool
21:31.56AchiestDragonalthough alot of cnc machines and software use a subset of the G-code
21:34.14archivistinteresting article
21:38.07archivistwe have a crude cnc here that could be made a lot better, but would need a lot of work
21:39.19archivistAchiestDragon as your on demon you cant be that far away from me
21:39.41AchiestDragonnorth wales
21:40.06archivisteast midlands burton on trent
21:40.50AchiestDragonkool :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050928

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050928

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02:19.35Twingyhrm
02:50.27PKMOBILEhmm
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09:17.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: deleting vers.c was counterproductive
09:18.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): deleting vers.c was counterproductive
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16:10.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Change archerDebug to Archer::debug; move SetNormalCursor and SetWaitCursor totclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl
16:13.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: Initial check-in
16:20.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add refreshTree, find, get and report methods
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050929

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050929

01:03.46Twingygrumble smacks
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02:50.13pra5adargh osg+sdl kills x
02:52.54pra5adooh nm =)
02:54.13Twingyo.O
02:55.13pra5adtwas eating up all key events
02:55.34TwingyI think we've ironed out enough bugs that it's usable for my app now
02:55.44pra5adgot transparency?
02:55.51Twingydidn't look into it
02:56.32Twingyhrm, uncle sam should be making a deposit soon
02:57.12Twingy*customer
02:57.31Twingymaybe maryland too :)
02:59.47pra5adare these the less than 2% efficient ones?
03:01.27Twingyerm, close to that
03:01.34Twingylike $1 a watt
03:01.41Twingybest I can find right now is $4.30 a watt
03:05.29TwingyAt present the organic versions have an efficiency of 3.4 percent, according to the details of the study in the Nov. 29 issue of the journal of Applied Physics Letters, but Kippelen hopes that figure will approach 5 percent in the near future.
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06:21.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac README include/config_win.h): bump to 7.6.2 for an emergency patch release to coincide with a muves release
06:22.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: add the missing rtarea/rtweight declarations
06:23.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl: get rid of the SystemBuuton and System Window symbols as they are windows-specific and cause breakage in one of the muves tools (this file is not used internally yet, it's used by archer)
06:24.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/NEWS: new section for 7.6.2
06:28.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/NEWS: murray and morrison fixed 'embedded mged' tclscript files so that muves-s2 integrates correctly and simplifies ajem integration later.
06:37.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/NEWS: this release is being made so that muves-s2 works, so that ajem integration is simplified (ajem folks won't need to patch anything, muves-s2 team doesn't need to explain anything).
06:46.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: very simple change set for this emergency release
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11:37.43cad993hello are there any interfaces for integration into a document or content management system ???
11:46.01brlcadcad993: you mean the geometry format interfaces?
11:47.13brlcadcad993: for the geometry, there is not -- the sources to the package are in CVS, though, as can be the geometry files themselves of course
11:47.41brlcadthe next major verion of the geometry format will have revision and history support
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15:50.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Modified the tree widget to not use the canvas' selection mechanism
16:44.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl: Create various SystemXXX variables and set depending on platform
18:32.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Update
19:06.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/README: tagged, bump to 7.6.4
19:07.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/NEWS: new section for 7.6.3
19:07.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): bump to 7.6.3 after tag/release
21:16.37pra5ad\
23:33.41pra5adsean u alive?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050930

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20050930

00:49.09brlcadnever
00:59.26``Erikheh
01:09.52pra5adseems I will be determining the future of java-M3
01:10.15pra5adif SCJ+BAD is too slow, java-M3 will be dropped i think
01:10.22pra5admuahaha
01:13.13brlcadheh
01:13.23brlcad``Erik: how's the vacation?
01:13.41brlcadmovie at 2 tomorrow
01:13.49brlcadregality
01:28.29``Erikpseudo-vacationy
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21:37.23Twingymoo
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051001

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051001

00:09.55pra5adagarrrr
00:17.14Twingyarrr
06:56.10*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
06:56.11*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
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17:52.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: autoconf 2.52 on os x 10.2 does not support the -f option, so try to continue without it if autoconf fails
18:09.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: follow our own ws rules
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19:55.38docelicEvening, gentlemen
20:15.42*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
20:48.16AchiestDragoni have an idea for some objects , that may be a bit easyer than the current method , just want to throw the idea arround a bit see what you think ,,
20:49.28AchiestDragonto have a list of standard object parts like box section , angle section , I or H beem section , to enter the dimentions for it then place it
20:51.01AchiestDragonso for angle section you could have a 20mm* 20mm * 3mm thick piece thats 50mm long , better than having to calculate each point of the ends
20:54.30AchiestDragoncould also be linked to preset values so the standard industrial sizes could be in a database , so you would select the item you want to use (say same angle section as above ) from the database then specify the lenth
20:55.22AchiestDragonit would make drawing objects made from standard materials verry easy
20:57.53AchiestDragonmay take some time to get a full database but if a structure is in place for letting it do this then the database itself could be by user contributions ( if theres a easy way for them to enter new items )
21:00.13AchiestDragonit could even be extended to allow for more complex objects ( like "parts" )  that would be individual .g files in themselves  ( think it may already be able to do this sort of thing )
21:03.54AchiestDragonthen it should be just a case of entering the insert points , and x,y,z rotation for it ( or maybe positioning it by moving it arround with the mouse )
21:11.37AchiestDragonbrb
21:12.02*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
21:14.42AchiestDragonback
23:03.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make note of the fact that ac_gnu_source requires autoconf 2.54+, and ac_header_stdbool requires 2.55+
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051002

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051002

00:29.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed)
00:29.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: don't buy into the philosophy of requiring a minimum version so strictly. add
00:29.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: extra failure support for configure.ac files that are actually using autoconf
00:29.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: macros newer than the stated minimum requirement on the half-presumption that
00:29.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: they are perhaps not strictly necessary for the build. warn verbosely about any
00:29.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: edits iff it helps autoconf succeed. this helps everything 'just work' even for
00:29.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: the maintainers without requiring tools to be updated for potentially
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07:17.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
13:38.41AchiestDragonhi
14:21.44learnerhello
14:22.14AchiestDragonha life :)
14:40.53learner:)
14:43.32AchiestDragongrrr , been generating a gui to show an idea , done it twice now , but qt designer crashed on me both times , another 2 hrs down the drain
14:44.41learnerahh, yes .. gotta save often with that sucker
14:46.14AchiestDragonhad almost finished it as well
14:46.48learneri'm sure it was wonderful ;)
14:50.38AchiestDragontrying to show an idea for an ( auto parts generator ) , so objects such as box, tube , I beems etc can be easaly generated
14:52.36AchiestDragonby selecting from the standard end profiles ( or a custom profile ) specifying the lenth or a bend profile file and it should generate the main part , then you may have to do object add/ subtract to put holes in it
14:53.16learnersort of like basic feature-based editing
14:53.29AchiestDragonyes
14:57.24AchiestDragonso for a paperclip it would be round bar 1mm dia folowing say a dxf of a paperclip bend path
15:01.34AchiestDragoncomponent libs would be usefull so you could have std nuts bolts screws or whatever
15:05.21brlcadyeah, that would be useful
15:07.05AchiestDragonquestion that i find odd it that brlcad was a us gov program , so why are dimementions in mm
15:07.43brlcad:)
15:08.08brlcadactually, you can set to units to whatever you like, it's just the default that's mm ;)
15:08.20AchiestDragonk
15:08.22AchiestDragon:)
15:08.26brlcadunits command
15:09.21AchiestDragonis  fine for me in mm , just seemed odd that it was by default
15:10.27brlcadbrl-cad's always had an international community of users, 'some' default unit of measurement was needed
15:11.16brlcadjust because most of the rest of the country has difficulty adopting metric doesn't mean we can't :)
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15:13.19AchiestDragonive been using metric and imperial units for some time , since the uk went metric in the 70's , its still a case of some odd things like 1"*1" steel bar comes in 6m lenths  now
15:15.51AchiestDragonfinding imperial spanners and tools like drill bits , all seem to be metric here now so its hard to get imperial tools  
15:16.00brlcadyeah, that's what makes the unit command useful.. you can change units on the fly for each object if you wanted
15:17.49AchiestDragonat least you dont need 12 fingers when calculating metric mesurement
15:17.57AchiestDragons
15:20.13AchiestDragoncool, so i can have a 1" cube with a 20mm hole though it for example ,
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15:21.30AchiestDragonwb learner
15:24.44AchiestDragonwhat's the time scaile for archer for linux ( well even for a working alpha version )
15:29.03brlcadhopefully by the end of this month
15:29.25AchiestDragon:)
15:33.19AchiestDragonwill need to sort cvs out so i can test it
15:36.31learnerthat would be cool
15:38.59AchiestDragonnow cvs is working ok this time , not changed anything so must of been sourcefourge's end
15:39.20brlcadusually is
15:39.39brlcadusually just a matter of waiting for sf.net guys to get in to work the next day..
15:47.50AchiestDragonany ./configure options you recomend other than --enable-optimized        debug ones  for example
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16:09.47brlcadAchiestDragon: debug is default, regardless of optimization --enable-optimized is all I'd suggest
16:10.07brlcadthe rest is all auto-detect and will build everything it can
16:10.28AchiestDragonk , is on make at moment , did ./configure --enable-optimized --prefix=$HOME
16:16.25brlcadthat'll work, though it's going to toss a bunch of dirs into $HOME
16:16.40brlcadbin, share, lib, include, man
16:18.21AchiestDragonshould of done $HOME/brlcad but bit late now
16:19.26AchiestDragonwell guess not , have'nt done make install yet
16:19.53brlcadit does matter ;)
16:20.12brlcadthe libraries and resource utilities keep track of where they will install at configure time
16:20.56AchiestDragonstoped it and  started with ./configure --enable-optimized --prefix=$HOME/brlcad this time
17:00.59AchiestDragon:) well cvs version compiles ok and seems to be running ok
17:01.58AchiestDragonsee that wire frame overlay seems to be working in perspective mode now
17:10.31brlcadshouldn't have ever stopped working ..
17:11.09brlcadexcept for shaded_mode where there's a bug
17:12.26AchiestDragonha , well when i have overlay selected and whenever i enabled perspective the wire frame vanished , making it hard to position the image , had to do a quick render and guess when repositioning the image
17:14.09AchiestDragonsince doing this render its now not showing , hopes it comes back , half way though a trace so will wait for it to finish first
17:17.05brlcadyou do know about underlay/overlay, yes?
17:17.32brlcadif you're rendering to the framebuffer in the graphics window, the wireframe can be on top or below the framebuffer
17:19.03AchiestDragonyes underlay draws it underneath and overlay draws it over the top , so overlay should desplay it regardles
17:20.25AchiestDragonbut depends on what bit is beeing layed over  the top layer will be the prominent image ,
17:21.18AchiestDragonits set to underlay , theres no wire frame , so i guess thats a bug ??
17:23.54AchiestDragoni think from what i know of it that the underlay refers to the rendered image , not the wire frame , so the frame is top with the renderd image under it , that right ?
17:24.26AchiestDragonit seems to work that way when its working ok
17:25.09brlcadyes
17:26.03AchiestDragonwill see if i can get it back when its finished this ,, its 50% though a photonmap render
17:26.34brlcadif you turn perspective off, does it return?
17:27.03brlcadthe size projection of perspective often places the wireframe in front of the clipping plane
17:27.52brlcadyou have z-clipping on or off?
17:28.32brlcad(make sure it's off -- Misc menu)
17:30.23AchiestDragonk will try when its done this render ,,btw  z clipping is on
17:30.32AchiestDragonhopes its that
17:30.58brlcadonce the render starts, it will render the state from image start
17:31.44brlcadit doesn't matter what you change after that in the view
17:32.04brlcadso you can turn perspective on/off or even spin the model around, it won't affect the image being rendered
17:32.14AchiestDragonk
17:32.47brlcadthe only thing you can't change is the window dimensions, since it will distort the framebuffer
17:33.06AchiestDragonk :) z clipping on / off , brings the wire frame back
17:36.33brlcadyeah, so it's a matter of how large the thing is that you're rendering
17:37.17AchiestDragonk  ,, m35.g
17:50.33AchiestDragonodd its finished the raytrace but the image is the same , ie still showing the quick render
17:58.14AchiestDragonmaybe me
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18:21.23brlcadAchiestDragon: you said you were doing a photonmap render of the m35?  that would require a _lot_ of photons without putting the m35 into a box
20:20.59AchiestDragonyes ,, but it should still show the image it has just rendered shouldent it ???
20:23.25AchiestDragoni did a render using surface normals first this time , so i get a image that is coloured diferently , then did a photonmap render , it has finished some time ago but the image beeing displayed is still the coloured surface normals one
20:24.24AchiestDragonis this a bug or is there a diferent output option to turn on ??
20:29.05AchiestDragonsee http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot3.png
21:06.11AchiestDragonok closed the program reopened it , set the photons to 4194304 and started , this is going to take a long time , hope it works
21:39.42brlcadheh...
21:40.12brlcadunless you have a massive cluster, I doubt that many photons will complete this month without putting the truck in a box ;)
21:41.02brlcadhmm, that screenshot helps -- it did not terminate correctly
21:42.10brlcadlooks like a bug in the photon map rendering code.. I'd file a report on it, if you dont' mind
21:53.13AchiestDragonk
21:54.18AchiestDragonno big cluster here,  a its dual xeon 2Ghz machine
22:02.39AchiestDragonand it only seems to be using 25% of cpu
22:04.11brlcadprobabbly swapping .. that many photons require a fair bit of memory
22:04.22brlcadunless it's a dual-core dual
22:04.49brlcador hyperthreaded which I gather it is if it's xeons
22:05.09brlcadthe prep stage in photon mapping hasn't been parallelized
22:05.18AchiestDragonk
22:05.21brlcadso it's just using one cpu (one virtual of your four)
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22:10.00AchiestDragonbug report submitted
22:43.48AchiestDragonopps it submitted it twice
22:45.14brlcadno problem, it'll get cleaned up
22:47.58pra5adhey sean
22:48.02pra5adwhere's ur singleton code
22:52.18brlcadpra5ad: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Singleton.h or http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Singleton2.h
22:52.58brlcad2 is more simple, and what I use in bz -- presumes single thread model and only default constructor creation
22:53.17``Erikgrumble grumble hxx grumbl
22:53.18brlcadthe first has (mostly unimplemented) hooks for threading and memory methods
22:54.55brlcadpra5ad: so to use it.. say i have a singleton file manager, you derive off the templatized version:
22:54.58brlcadclass FileManager : public Singleton<FileManager>
22:55.31brlcadand make him a friend with himself in his protected or private:
22:55.33brlcadfriend class Singleton<FileManager>;
22:55.43brlcadwhere you've also placed the constructor/destructor
22:57.04brlcadinitialize your singleton in a compilation unit so that you have a handle:
22:57.13brlcadtemplate <>
22:57.15brlcadFileManager* Singleton<FileManager>::_instance = (FileManager*)0;
22:57.25brlcadand that does it
22:57.41brlcadmight want to create a #define to make accessing the instance simple:
22:57.51brlcad#define FILEMGR (FileManager::instance())
22:58.21brlcadso then I can use FILEMGR.lookUpFile("blah.h"); etc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051003

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051003

00:35.39*** join/#brlcad cad107 (n=0cde1b40@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:18.34pra5adarent u paying a penalty for the instance==0
02:23.49brlcadheh, not really
02:25.27brlcadover-optimizing early, eh?  profile it if you think it's a problem, and you'll see it's not :)
02:25.52pra5adhow bout instantiate it at startup and use a custom smart pointer to guarantee garbage collection
02:26.15pra5adman this is getting complex
02:26.30brlcadi wouldn't
02:26.53brlcadit's very simple as is, and it works very well
02:27.07pra5admemory manager is a singleton, singleton is a managed object,... cycle
02:28.35pra5adheh i tried atexit with a class method parameter; gcc kept whining about it
02:28.43pra5adguess it works after all
02:30.30brlcadfunctions, not methods :P  you'd have to wrap it in a func
02:30.43brlcador make it static
02:40.02Twingywoo, agar is finally in usable state
02:40.25Twingynothing like a weekend long of bug fixes
03:54.59pra5ad:D getting good results from mem manager
04:25.32pra5ad300% improvement over 'new' is trivial
05:07.42Twingydamn C++ weenies
05:50.56Twingyhrm
05:59.20Twingybtw
05:59.34TwingyI think something weird is happening to pthread_create pthread_join as a result of including agar
05:59.45TwingyIn file included from observer/observer.c:20:
05:59.45Twingy/home/justin/local/include/agar/engine/engine.h:122:1: warning: "PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER" redefined
05:59.45TwingyIn file included from observer/observer.c:2:
05:59.45Twingy/usr/include/pthread.h:155:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition
05:59.45Twingyobserver/observer.c: In function `observer':
05:59.46Twingyobserver/observer.c:59: warning: passing arg 1 of `pthread_create' from incompatible pointer type
05:59.48Twingyobserver/observer.c:64: warning: passing arg 1 of `pthread_join' makes pointer from integer without a cast
06:00.17Twingyfor some reason it things my pthread_t's are wrong type
06:00.20Twingy*thinks
06:21.08Twingyhrm
06:21.09Twingyyou there still?
07:01.56Twingywelp, I Tried everything I can think of
07:02.05Twingyif I SDL_LockSurface(agView->v)
07:02.07Twingythen do a blit
07:02.18Twingythen SDL_UnlockSurface(agView->v)
07:02.22TwingyI get nothing
07:02.24Twingyhowever
07:02.32Twingyif I leave the locking off
07:02.44Twingyevery now and then I see the image that's supposed to be there
07:03.01Twingyso I think something is overwriting it, like the window or something
07:03.36MaloeranSurfaces must not be locked for SDL blitting functions
07:04.02Twingyoh my, it's getting late
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17:10.18brlcadhello lll
18:09.37*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@12.22.249.3)
18:41.34PKMOBILEso heres a question brlcad, does this sucker have to be drupal cuz im becoming less fond of it the more im working on it
18:42.15brlcad:)
18:42.24brlcadalternative?
18:42.48brlcaddrupal was appealing due to it's api interface for developing plugins, it's very clean
18:43.17brlcadthat is where I expect to be spending most of my time, once the basic site is up and running
18:43.32brlcadthat said, no i've not got religion on it
18:43.45PKMOBILEah ok... im just not enjoying how it does things
18:44.06brlcadis it just familiarity or are you actually stuck on something?
18:44.39brlcadand still.. what alternatives?
18:44.50brlcadmambo and plone are probably the only two I'd think about
18:45.17PKMOBILEwell i added that first whitepaper about what brl-cad was and now i cant find it anywhere but by using the admin control panel
18:45.26brlcadplone would be a real bear given how it would have to be shoehorned in to work on sourceforge (being based on python/zope)
18:45.40brlcadmambo is possible, but I don't know if they work on sf.net either
18:45.56PKMOBILEyeah and i know you dont like how xoops works
18:47.22brlcadyeah, I'm not fond of xoops or the myriad of nuke sites
18:48.29brlcadjoomla might be better than mambo now that they've forked
18:52.21PKMOBILEthe problem ive been having is that every drupal site looks almost exactly the same
18:53.46PKMOBILEand after trying to make this thing work i can see why
18:56.40Twingy_http://home.hawaii.rr.com/chowfamily/lego/
18:57.28brlcadyes, that will have to be avoided -- i don't want there to be any hint that it's running drupal even via the URL when all is said and done
18:59.48PKMOBILEsourceforge hosting kinda stinks
18:59.59brlcadPKMOBILE: I have seen some sites running drupal that you'd have no idea that was what they are running so I know it's possible
19:00.20brlcadit's a win/lose situation :)
19:01.28brlcadhigh redudancy, automatic backups, unlimited bandwidth, seamless accounts integration .. just no outbound
19:01.59brlcadand no zope :/
19:02.14brlcadthough it's an utter pig when it comes to memory and resources
19:02.41PKMOBILEthe no outbound is a bit frustrating
19:02.54brlcadhey, if you get an idea of other worth testing, lemme know... http://www.cmsmatrix.org/
19:03.25PKMOBILEoh yeah... http://brlcad.org/drupal/node/4
19:03.32PKMOBILEthats the first thing i did
19:03.53docelicSorry may I ask what's the word about? I use this silly irc client where I can't or don't know how to get scrollback
19:04.45brlcadfeature-popularity-wise, I'd still try to get drupal or mambo/joomla
19:07.19brlcaddocelic: talking about the new website
19:08.37brlcadsf.net provides hosting, and given all the features that will ultimately be integrated, a CMS system makes sense instead of rolling something custom .. but then sf.net's limitations make using various CMS a pain sometimes
19:09.02PKMOBILEunless its nuke, which is a pain in itself
19:10.00brlcadnuke is horrible to write extensions for, not to mention the history of 'insecure' programming limitations it seems to encourage
19:10.22docelicAll 'portal' software is lousy programmed
19:10.38PKMOBILEi was reading a site about nuke security
19:11.00PKMOBILEthe guy claimed his hacker friends crack postnuke in 20 seconds and phpnuke in 30 seconds thereby making phpnuke more secure
19:12.33docelicThe only thing that happened for 30 secs is that I was just staring at this message of yours..
19:12.48docelicDon't know which aspect of it to laught at first..
19:13.06Twingy_http://cgi.ebay.com/Water-Storage-Drum-Barrel-Liquid-Tank-55-Gallon_W0QQitemZ7550141387QQcategoryZ57069QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
19:13.22PKMOBILEi wish i could have commented, i really had a good one at the time too
19:15.11docelicthis guy thinks he's in circus or something..
19:15.15docelicthis ebay pal
19:15.38Twingy_I want to grow up to be just like that guy
19:15.52PKMOBILEi want to be his lackey
19:17.22Twingy_and a fine lackey you would make
19:52.14AchiestDragonplastic barrels ar not the best thing for putting beer in
19:57.30AchiestDragonwell not from the taste point of view but in a plastic barrel it will give it a plasticy taste , but shake it and it will split or burst
20:05.24AchiestDragonfeature request , or hopfully small change ,, when rendering (long ones with big photon maps ) is it posible to add more frequent (like some ) percentage compleation indication
20:16.46brlcadAchiestDragon: it's possible, but I'd still suggest filing a feature request for it -- easier to track and be reminded since it's not a 2-sec fix.
20:17.04AchiestDragonk
20:37.35AchiestDragonsubmitted
20:37.44brlcadokay
20:37.46brlcadthanks
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21:05.16AchiestDragonsubmitted the one for libs also
21:07.55brlcadI noticed ;)
21:08.24brlcadi particularly like that idea, the basic feature is something being integrated into the new modeler
21:08.43brlcadability to call up catalogs of geometries
21:10.53AchiestDragonthinking on things like items that you may want to use oftern , if you like say house plans , then you may not want to have to draw the furnature each time , so beeing able to import furnature items that you have drawn would be usefull
21:13.55brlcadindeed
21:14.09brlcadand to be able to classify and group geometries by domains
21:14.43brlcadI don't want to be sorting through furniture when I'm building an engine, but I might want bolts regardless of whether I'm building a house or a teapot
21:15.49AchiestDragonsimple lib dir with sub dirs for each sub clasification would work better , and be more custamizable
21:16.00AchiestDragondblib
21:17.50AchiestDragonthen it can grow as required , and be easy for the user to edit
21:18.54brlcadperhaps, though I wouldn't want to deal with that more than necessary myself .. leave it up to the user to decide what to cache/modify locally, but provide access to an entire database of models and parts 'globally'
21:19.54brlcadjust use it like a card catalog for looking up books, some similar sort of organization for geometry, where I could have access to others' models that have been contributed
21:21.14archivist_solid works has something loke that
21:21.27archivist_loke=like
21:21.34brlcadyeah, for their parts available on-disk
21:23.00archivist_and a patr that you choose the dims/spec of ans a new part gets placed in the drawing eg bearing or standars metal shape
21:25.24AchiestDragonarchivist_:  thats my other feature request not submitted yet , but that needs more scripting to impliment ,
21:27.13archivist_im just thinking how to implement "definable" part where solidworks uses an embeded excell worksheet
21:28.47AchiestDragonstandard metal sizes / sections , but its a diferent method to the libs
21:28.53archivist_eg i draw a gear and set teeth qty thickness bore dia etc (and the interelations) in the worksheet
21:31.49AchiestDragoncan be done , but you need a script for each item ,  so you could have a gear script , that asks you the params and generates the apropriate model for it
21:32.55AchiestDragonwas thinking mor on the lines of simpler things to start with like angle iron , rod and bar , I beem and things like that
21:34.42archivist_are but one can edit the parts in solid works once inserted in the assembly
21:34.58AchiestDragonthen things like nuts , bolts etc
21:36.53archivist_yup i insert a standard screwed pillar and vary the height as i design parts around them
21:37.56archivist_i just right click on a pillar in the drawing and select a new configuration
21:40.28AchiestDragonthat could be implimented if when you select the part in the current workspace that there is a referance to the script that created it
21:41.18archivist_so that instance of part uses named configuration x,y etc where each configuration is a line in the controling worksheet in the part
21:42.45AchiestDragonthink something that may bee needed for the libs function could also be used for this ,, not sure as i have not seen the .g format , but is there space or a way for some information like author , discription , and comments etc in the file format
21:43.24AchiestDragonif so then a script used to generate a object could strore the paramiters it used for it in there also
21:47.02archivist_one needs arbitary calculations between dimensions constants etc
21:48.50brlcadAchiestDragon: yes, the .g format supports assignment of arbitrary attributes to objects as well as the storage of arbitrary non-geometric data (like even things like Word .doc files, text summaries, etc)
21:49.13AchiestDragonk
21:50.59AchiestDragonbut takeing a script to generate box section , the script asks for values for some dimentions , h,w,l , if it stores thease allong with an identifyer to the script that created it , then to edit it
21:52.12AchiestDragonit should be a case of presenting the valuse as the "defaults " allowing the user to change them ( with the original script) , then replacing the old output with the updated one
21:53.55AchiestDragonits when you decide that the tube that you placed needed to be a square box section that its not going to manage
21:53.58archivist_see www.archivist.info/brlcad/geardesign.xls for a worksheet for solidworks
21:55.46archivist_8 configurations in that one
22:01.08archivist_to explain the sequence 1 draw the blank with bore 2 exttrude thickness 3 cut N slots shape of tcut
22:26.25brlcadarchivist_: yeah, I've thought about that to some extent.. it's similar to mged's props and idents editor tables
22:27.05brlcadarchivist_: the direct spreadsheet manipulation is a win there, since if one knows how to 'spreadsheet' properly, you can do some more complex manipulations/updates
22:27.39brlcadnot always, but sometimes .. and even if not, it makes for simple means to update a class of objects all at once
22:33.56AchiestDragonwell maybe , but if done by a script in brlcad rather than an external spread sheet , there is a advantage ...
22:34.08brlcadoh, definitely
22:34.14brlcadi don't want to leave my modeler to model
22:34.41brlcadbeing a spreadsheet doesn't necessarily imply it has to be an excel spreadsheet ;)
22:34.56brlcador the only editing means to update geometry in groups
22:35.59AchiestDragonthe script for a gear would draw a disk , the tooth profile is another object that is rotated and repeated by n arround the disk and subtracted from it , ok ,, but the profile for the tooth could be slightly spireled so you could do spiral cut gears
22:38.36AchiestDragonchange the profile eliment for something diferent  and it could do turbine blades
22:40.47AchiestDragonif the tooth profile is also a .g file or object  then theres lots of things that can be done with the same basic script and some simple mods to it
22:59.00``Erikheh, "sc" was cool
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051004

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051004

01:52.41brlcadAchiestDragon: that it could.. the existing "pattern tool" in mged is like that, albeit with a horrid user interface that could be improved upon
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10:26.43archivist_the gear form varies with the blank dir so cant be too separate from the complete part
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14:30.07``Erik*yawn*
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16:49.07Twingy_mal, you here?
17:30.23Maloeran*nods* Hi Twingy
17:30.32Twingy_hop onto #agar
17:33.46``ErikO.o
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19:26.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: M-x indent-region scripts
19:44.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: manpages have their legal headers added
19:45.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: configure outputs better
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051005

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051005

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11:02.44thumPer1052Wow! There IS a time when all the world's asleep!
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13:06.00archivist_sleep causes programming deprivation
14:58.37brlcadlhehe
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15:43.22MikeChi Twingy_
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15:55.21brlcadhowdy MikeC
15:56.49MikeChello brlcad
15:57.14MikeCThis is Mike Caruso, I visited ARL in mid july
15:57.40brlcadthe name is very familiar
15:58.12brlcadaah, and you spoke with Lee for quite a while, iirc
15:58.20MikeCyes
15:58.29MikeCand Justin
15:58.45brlcadgot it
15:59.03MikeCdo you know anything about Justin's ray tracer? along the lines of shot line analysis?
16:01.10brlcada little bit, he'll be back in a while .. ping Twingy_ for his attention ;)
16:01.40brlcadthe ISST tool in ADRT is toolset he put together
16:01.40MikeCok I messaged him, thanks
16:01.50MikeC<PROTECTED>
16:01.57MikeCI forgot the name of the ray tracer
16:01.58brlcadi'm more familiar with librt's shot-line analysis interface
16:02.00MikeCso its called ADRT?
16:02.24brlcadADRT is a collection of tools based around his triangle-tracer
16:02.33MikeCok
16:02.41brlcadin adrt is isst and rise
16:02.53MikeCwhat is isst and rise?
16:02.59brlcad"interative shotline selection tool" and the "realistic image synthesis engine"
16:03.46MikeCok I'll talk to him later on today
16:03.50brlcadbasically isst is real-time ray-tracing for model visualization, rise is path-tracing for pretty pictures
16:04.51MikeCI'll be back in a few hours
16:50.06``Erikshoulda gone to lunch with us, sean
16:51.17Twingy_hi
16:52.52brlcad``Erik: i had good noodles
16:53.05Twingy_as opposed to BAD noodles
16:53.12brlcadyup
16:53.13Twingy_behind armor debris noodles
16:53.16Twingy_:)
16:53.24brlcadkermit had lots of BAD noodles
16:53.50brlcadi didn't think they could go bad.. but sure enough, give 'em a decade..
16:54.02Twingy_I think the mouse would get to them before then
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17:25.43``Erikheh
17:26.00``Erikdid kermit spall all over?
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18:41.49MikeC-AwayTwingy_ do you have a moment to discuss ADRT?
18:42.11Twingy_yep
18:42.59MikeC1can the code for ADRT be found in the 7.6.0 distribution of brlcad?
18:43.19Twingy_brlcad/src/adrt/
18:44.02MikeC1ok the application that displayed the fault tree, is that a separate thing?
18:44.27Twingy_that's fuzzy attribute viewer, part of brian's project
18:44.50MikeC1that is probably not part of the brlcad source tree right?
18:44.56Twingy_correct
18:45.08MikeC1is it possible to get just the fault tree data itself?
18:45.21Twingy_that's a sysdef file
18:45.27Twingy_those are usually classified/sensitive
18:46.03Twingy_did you mean input data or result data?
18:46.06MikeC1are there any example fault trees we can work with?
18:46.15MikeC1well just the tree itself
18:46.21Twingy_yes, I think 2 are included in the fuzzy attribute project
18:46.42MikeC1ok thats good
18:46.51MikeC1should we talk to Brian on getting the code for that project?
18:46.55Twingy_you'll have to contact brian if you want to see about getting a copy of that
18:46.58MikeC1ok
18:47.07Twingy_he'll be in tommorrow
18:47.12Twingy_you can call him
18:47.18MikeC1ok cool, does he come on here at all?
18:47.33Twingy_nope, he's an irc troglodyte :)
18:47.42MikeC1hahahaha
18:47.46brlcadheh
18:48.11MikeC1its good to know you guys are available here
18:48.22MikeC1just dont die from those noodles
18:48.24MikeC1or something
18:48.36brlcadthe noodles were great ;)
18:48.47Twingy_if the noodles kill him, brl-cad dies :)
18:48.51MikeC1I had some noodles today too
18:49.26Twingy_unfortunately sean is the brl-cad team :)
18:49.56brlcadnot "entirely", but mostly the heavy lifter for anything not in src/adrt ;)
18:50.05MikeC1so does the fault tree need to mirror the articulation of the object in the g file being rendered by the ADRT?
18:50.27Twingy_it requires a regmap file
18:50.36Twingy_that maps a .g file's region ID to a muves component name
18:50.42MikeC1oh ok
18:50.43Twingy_the component name is what is used in the sysdef file
18:50.52Twingy_my g-adrt converter takes an option regmap file
18:51.06Twingy_and converts region names to muves names for you
18:51.30Twingy_it's not a very turn-key process yet
18:51.38MikeC1do you have brian's number handy? if not i'll call the general number
18:51.39Twingy_mostly bubblegum and duct tape
18:51.39MikeC1thats ok
18:51.45MikeC1as long as you are here
18:51.48MikeC1and we can ask questions
18:51.51Twingy_yep
18:51.53Twingy_one sec
18:52.19Twingy_3872
18:52.22MikeC1k
18:52.30Twingy_oops
18:52.32Twingy_3782
18:53.01MikeC1how is the windows port going?
18:53.18brlcadMikeC1: there's an alpha ready for testing if you're interested
18:53.24MikeC1ooooo
18:53.33MikeC1adrt too?
18:53.41Twingy_not so much :)
18:53.48MikeC1ok
18:53.58MikeC1Twingy: will FC4 work?
18:54.04Twingy_windows for distributed computing seems kinda hairy :)
18:54.12Twingy_yes
18:54.14MikeC1oh thats one thing i should point out
18:54.15brlcadnope, mainly mged and all the tools exposed by mged (rt, converters) and archer
18:54.22MikeC1we do not have a distributed environment set up here
18:54.27Twingy_ah
18:54.28MikeC1looking to run everyone on one CPU for now
18:54.37MikeC1everything*
18:54.39Twingy_well, don't expect great performance
18:54.44MikeC1thats ok
18:54.49Twingy_you'll be lucky to top 1mil rays/sec
18:54.54MikeC1we're going to use some simple models
18:54.58MikeC1thats ok for us man
18:55.20MikeC1we are mainly looking at it for the fault tree and shot line stuff
18:55.26MikeC1with the slicing views
18:55.54Twingy_ah
18:56.04Twingy_should buy a couple AMD X2's ;)
18:56.10MikeC1is there any work being done related to giving mass to the projectile?
18:56.53Twingy_erm, that's a vulnerability algorithm, you could toss that in
18:57.02MikeC1ok
18:57.16Twingy_I've got a new program I'm working on that might address that
18:57.39MikeC1and mainly what our goal is to expose the capabilities of these things to the TENA/HLA world
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18:57.53MikeC1so that people who simulate vehicles/projectiles/etc in a scenario can use this as a result
18:58.21Twingy_yep, I've got plans for that too ;)
18:58.30Twingy_check back on me in a few weeks :}
18:58.56MikeC1oh you are working with TENA/HLA?
18:59.02Twingy_erm, not so much
18:59.15``Erikweee, network breakage hehehe
18:59.29Twingy_muhaha
19:00.36Twingy_the great thing about standards is there's so many to choose from :)
19:00.43``Erikprasad, jason, ron, etc have no neworking hehehe
19:00.49``Erikwho said that quote?
19:00.53Twingy_maybe I should plug their calbes in
19:01.01Twingy_watch out
19:01.04Twingy_tammy is on her way upstairs
19:01.12Twingy_gillich is following her
19:01.27``Erikmebbe I shoudln't have played in the cable room with a pair of dikes
19:02.06PrezKennedythat just dont sound right
19:02.58Twingy_``Erik likes his ho's yo
19:03.09``Erikfoshizzy
19:03.14Twingy_manizzle
19:03.42``Erik(define (deps port) (sys-chdir port) (string-split (process-output->string "make -V LIB_DEPENDS -V BUILD_DEPENDS -V RUN_DEPENDS") " "))
19:03.45``Erikawesome
19:04.09Twingy_schemizzle lispskizzle
19:04.58``Erikghah, mike is polluting prasad with more c++ crap
19:05.32Twingy_yes :(
19:05.41``Erikright nw, in the hallway whiteboard
19:05.52PrezKennedyc++ is the shizzle
19:06.33PrezKennedyso when can we expect to see brl-cad ported entirely to java?
19:06.35PrezKennedyX-D
19:06.35Twingy_can't priv msg :(
19:06.49``Erikum, register yourself with nicksuck
19:06.52Twingy_I did
19:06.57Twingy_but Twingy is logged in at home
19:07.01Twingy_and I don't feel like killing it
19:07.04``Erikset up a secondary hostname
19:07.10Twingy_I'm lazy
19:07.20Twingy_I think you should call mike
19:07.24Twingy_he won't leave our office
19:07.26Twingy_call his phone
19:07.30MaloeranAhah
19:07.32``Erikwhat #?
19:07.52``ErikI'll search the directory
19:08.05Twingy_7820
19:08.12brlcadheh
19:08.14PrezKennedythats a creative way to get rid of someone
19:08.38Twingy_hurry
19:08.52brlcadwoo
19:09.04Twingy_woo
19:09.12``Erikdamn, I think he was quicker than I anticipated
19:09.25Twingy_he's like kramer
19:09.46``Erikdamn, these things have caller id
19:09.50Twingy_yes
19:09.55Twingy_uh og
19:09.57``Erikhe may try calling or visiting
19:09.59Twingy_I think he's on his way upstairs
19:10.03Twingy_lock the door!
19:10.07Twingy_oh wait, bathroom
19:10.11Twingy_I hear the squeaky door
19:10.12``Erikoh, wait
19:10.13``Erikhah
19:10.16``ErikI used rons number
19:10.17``ErikSWEET
19:10.20Twingy_nice
19:10.32``Eriknext time, I'll call mike from his own number
19:10.32``Erikmwahaha
19:10.35Twingy_awesome
19:11.03Twingy_so when I say DEY TUK R JBS! you need to call mike
19:11.26Twingy_DEY TUK R JBS!
19:11.31Twingy_DEY TUK R JBS!
19:11.37Twingy_DEY TUK R JBS!
19:11.45Twingy_DEY TUK R JBS!
19:11.59PrezKennedyits antics like this that make me wish i worked there
19:12.05Twingy_hurry!
19:12.10Twingy_ok
19:12.11Twingy_he's gone
19:12.34MaloeranIt sure sounds like a very productive environment :)
19:12.43Twingy_not with mike around :(
19:21.59MaloeranDid you run some benchmarks on Pathscale, Twingy? I never really fixed that "key" problem, it couldn't be much worse than GCC
19:22.27``Erik(tried tendra?)
19:23.35``Erikhttp://www.ten15.org/
19:23.45``Erik(ports/lang/TenDRA on fbsd)
19:27.51MaloeranDoesn't seem to support amd64, nor do any better than gcc in public benchmarks...
19:28.18``Erikhm, some fbsd pundits wanted to change the base compiler from gcc to tendra citing a few percent performance gain *shrug*
19:29.27MaloeranAh, what wouldn't fbsd fanatics say just to move away from GPL'ed code :)
19:30.04``Erikheh, plenty of gpl stuff being added, dude
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051006

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051006

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01:16.08*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
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04:55.23Twingynight
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20:48.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Change the location where archer.ico is found. This affects only the windows version
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051007

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051007

01:06.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/libbn/vectfont.c:
01:06.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: Added new symbols: plus/minus, degree, and centerline.
01:06.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: Corrected tp_setup() method (it was over-writing the symbols)
01:11.33pra5adwhoa
01:14.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c:
01:14.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: Added a new method: nmg_vlist_to_eu( struct bu_list *vlist, struct shell *s )
01:14.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: creates wire edges in the specified shell. The edges correspond to line segments in the
01:14.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: list of "bn_vlist" structures passed in. Used in "dxf-g" to handle tet strings.
01:15.53pra5adhey sean
01:16.13pra5adconfigure isn't setting some vars in config.h correctly
01:16.25brlcadsuch as?
01:16.26pra5addo i need something extra in .ac
01:16.31pra5adPACKAGE and VERSION
01:16.35pra5adeven tho AC_INIT has em
01:17.40brlcadhuh?
01:17.59brlcad#define PACKAGE "brlcad"
01:18.23brlcad#define VERSION "7.6.1"
01:18.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c:
01:18.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: Added rudimentary text handling. Uses vector font in libbn (vectfont.c) and
01:18.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: nmg_vlist_to_eu() to create wire edges to represent the text.
01:18.33pra5adAC_INIT(blah, 1.0) <<-- configure.ac
01:18.49pra5ad#define PACKAGE "Package" <<- config.h
01:18.59pra5adshouldn't configure fill it in correctly?
01:19.07pra5adsince it's creating config.h from config.h.in
01:19.33brlcadAC_INIT doesn't create config.h
01:20.07pra5adsoo i need to AC_SUBST(PACKAGE) ?
01:20.36brlcadno
01:20.38brlcadAM_CONFIG_HEADER
01:21.03pra5adconfig.status: creating src/memory/Makefile
01:21.03pra5adconfig.status: creating include/config/config.h
01:21.03pra5adconfig.status: include/config/config.h is unchanged
01:21.03pra5adconfig.status: executing depfiles commands
01:21.28pra5adi have AC_CONFIG_HEADER
01:21.42pra5addocs said AM_CONFIG_HEADER is obsolete
01:22.54brlcadmeh, those idiots make just about everything obsolete every other version
01:23.19brlcadac_config_header([config.h]), yes?
01:23.31pra5adupper case, yes
01:23.52pra5adi run autoheader and ./configure
01:24.00pra5adconfig.h doesnt have the right subst
01:24.01brlcader, include/config.h
01:24.09pra5ader, yes
01:24.11pra5ad:)
01:24.30pra5adAC_CONFIG_HEADER([include/config/config.h])
01:24.52brlcadkill your autom4te cache and run autoreconf (or snarf autogen.sh)
01:25.54pra5ad#define PACKAGE "package"
01:26.32brlcadtry the long version of ac_init
01:27.01brlcadac_init(long, version, url, shortname)
01:31.11pra5adhehe think i found the prob
01:31.30pra5adwas doing ac_init([var],...)  
01:33.39pra5adhrm nm
01:33.51pra5adthought it was just subst with 'var'
01:35.44pra5adgrr
01:36.19pra5ad./* Name of package */
01:36.19pra5ad#define PACKAGE "PACKAGE_SHORT_NAME"
01:36.39pra5adAC_INIT(PACKAGE_LONG_NAME,VERSION,PACKAGE_URL,PACKAGE_SHORT_NAME)
01:37.56brlcadyep
01:38.12pra5adwhat am i doing wrong
01:38.40brlcadi'm not sure what you think you're doing wrong
01:39.00pra5adi define PACKAGE_SHORT_NAME="blah blah"
01:39.08brlcadpackage is the short name
01:39.11Twingyuse scons :)
01:39.35brlcadpackage_name is the long name
01:39.47pra5adshouldnt that line in config.h be: #define PACKAGE "blah blah"
01:39.48pra5ad???
01:40.03brlcadshort_name shouldn't ahve spaces
01:40.18brlcadi dont' think eitehr is supposed to have spaces
01:41.20pra5adi thought PACKAGE would be #defined to be a string, so code can use it in cout, etc
01:41.38brlcadit is a string
01:41.51pra5adright..
01:41.58pra5adso why isnt configure subst it correctly
01:41.59brlcadthat doesn't mean it can have spaces .. that's up to autoconf
01:42.10pra5adok fine, look at this
01:42.38pra5adPACKAGE_SHORT_NAME="yats"
01:42.42pra5adthat's what is in my code
01:42.56pra5ad"blah blah" was my example..
01:43.18brlcadpra5ad: what's your exact AC_INIT line?
01:43.30pra5adAC_INIT(PACKAGE_LONG_NAME,VERSION,PACKAGE_URL,PACKAGE_SHORT_NAME)
01:43.37brlcadheh, that's no good
01:43.46brlcadput the values
01:43.55pra5adwhy not?
01:44.01brlcadeven if you were trying to use variables, that's wrong
01:44.09pra5adhow would i use a var
01:44.29brlcadwell, for AC_INIT in particular, you can't use shell variables
01:44.37brlcadyou'd have to use an m4 variable
01:44.42brlcads/variable/define/
01:45.17pra5adargh
01:45.17pra5adok
01:45.25brlcadbut if it was allowed, it'd be something like AC_INIT([$PACKAGE_LONG_NAME], ...
01:47.32brlcadbut it's not, so don't bother ;)
01:48.10brlcadac_init must occur before variables, otherwise they're not technically set when AC_INIT is processed
01:48.26pra5adrighto
01:48.28pra5adworks now
01:48.31brlcadm4 macros aren't like c preprocessor macros
01:48.33pra5adtanx
01:48.36brlcadit's not substitution
01:51.10pra5adanyone know of a good SDL replacement?
01:51.33brlcadwhat aspect of sdl?
01:51.46brlcadgraphics/windowing?
01:52.18pra5ad+ kb/mouse at least
01:52.30pra5ad+ opengl support
01:52.41pra5ad*(support for opengl contexts)
01:52.51brlcadclanlib is similarly geared in that regard
01:52.58brlcadprobably the only other full-fledged api
01:55.15brlcadotherwise you start gearing towards a platform
01:55.55brlcadlike gtk, cocoa, and qt
01:56.10brlcadkdelibs
01:56.24pra5adhrm
01:56.25brlcadopenstep
01:56.49pra5adsdl mac port is unsupported
01:56.56pra5adsorted concerned
01:56.59pra5adsorta*
01:57.04brlcadit works fine
01:57.09pra5adyea?
01:57.17pra5adalrighty then
01:58.01brlcadreplaced bz's custom cocoa+carbon platform code with sdl platform code relatively easily
01:58.26pra5adim | | close to getting this project compiled in cygwin, but cygwin's gcc isn't linking to the sdl libs correctly
01:58.54Twingyfozhizzle
01:58.55pra5admsg boards say gcc-mingw will work
01:58.56brlcadvery slight performance hit (< 2% probably) .. but well worth it in the extra features it provided for free (like full-screen/window toggles, resizing, events)
01:58.59pra5adtoo lazy to try yet
01:59.50pra5adtoggle only works on x11 no?
02:00.04pra5adso says sdl header
02:01.40brlcadno, never would use that on x11 unless I had to
02:23.36pra5addammit
02:23.56pra5adwhere's tegtmeyer
02:24.03pra5adneed his vast template expertise
05:04.44MaloeranSDL's fullscreen toggle couldn't work on windows for ogl, it requires destroying and recreating the context due to some limitations
05:05.23MaloeranThere wouldn't be a problem for mere 2d rendering, but that's probably why it's only for x11 in any case
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13:46.21brlcadMaloeran, we use SDL's fullscreen toggle on ogl windows in bz just fine (on all platforms, x11 or otherwise).  it does require an ogl state reinit inside your code, but that's generally not a problem since you have to do that anyways at least once.
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14:28.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: initialize scale structure
14:30.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/TODO:
14:30.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: new section: oddities
14:30.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: why is there a scale in bn_cmd_noise_slice?
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20:44.02*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
20:44.14BigIslandVegani typed ``Erik's command and it came back with the command prompt, I assume that is a good thing
20:44.18brlcadno X11 running and it's not an "app" in to Finder without going through some hoops (like shoving the binary into a .app or making a .script that execs x11 and mged)
20:44.35``ErikBigIslandVegan: yes, you can do "cat ~/.bashrc" to see if it worked, it should give you the export line back
20:44.36brlcadBigIslandVegan: yes, now close the window and open a new xterm
20:45.01brlcadtype "rt" to see if it worked
20:45.13brlcadyou should get a usage block of info about rt
20:45.25BigIslandVegando i need to quit x11 and mged entirely or just close this particular x11 window and open a new one?
20:45.38``Erikjust the xterm window
20:45.39brlcadjust the xterm window
20:45.42brlcaddamn
20:45.43BigIslandVeganok
20:45.49``Erikand you don't really need to close it, you could 'source' the file instead
20:46.03BigIslandVegannew x11 terminal window
20:46.29BigIslandVeganrt gave me brl-cad info and switch options
20:46.42``Eriksweet, it works, now you can run "mged"
20:46.49BigIslandVeganhmm
20:46.54BigIslandVeganwhat is "rt"?
20:46.58``Erikraytracer
20:47.00BigIslandVeganraytrace something?
20:47.02BigIslandVeganok
20:47.06brlcadmakes pretty pictures
20:47.16``Erikmine makes ugly pictures :(
20:47.18BigIslandVeganYAY!
20:47.27brlcadthere are over 400 commands like that in BRL-CAD ..
20:47.29BigIslandVegantoo soon
20:47.32BigIslandVegan:-)
20:47.43BigIslandVeganhmm, brl-cad is heavy on command line?
20:47.49brlcadthough much that you'll initially care about is available through mged
20:48.20brlcadthere's an expectation of minimal command line familiarity if you get into advanced modeling
20:48.28BigIslandVeganok
20:48.29brlcadotherwise, you can model and render using mged
20:48.46BigIslandVeganhopefully
20:48.49Twingyall I know how to make is sphere's
20:48.52brlcadBigIslandVegan: suggest going through the mged tutorial series (available on the website) if you haven't started yet
20:48.55BigIslandVeganI will explore it a big
20:48.59TwingyI think dwayne is the arb8 specialist
20:49.15BigIslandVeganthat is the pdf file on mged that i mentioned earlier, right?
20:49.35brlcadBigIslandVegan: in the mged command window type: opendb /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.6.0/db/havoc.g
20:49.41brlcade havoc
20:49.46brlcadrt -F/dev/Xl
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20:50.00brlcadBigIslandVegan: yes
20:50.33Linux_Userhi
20:51.02Linux_Useri canr intall the brlcad in my linux i cant find the scripit for instalation
20:51.23Linux_User*i cant install the brlcad in my linux i cant find the scripit for instalation- sorry for bad english
20:51.31Linux_Usersomeone can helpe me?
20:52.00BigIslandVeganbrlcad: I typed the firt line ending in havoc.g and got "Error invalid command name..."
20:52.07BigIslandVeganfirt - first
20:52.31``ErikBigIslandVegan: the big grey window that popped up when you ran mged, not  the xterm
20:52.38BigIslandVeganyes, that's what i used
20:53.05BigIslandVeganthe MGED 7.6.0 Command Window (id-0), etc
20:53.24brlcadLinux_User: which download are you trying to install?  binary or source?
20:53.47brlcadBigIslandVegan: that command goes into mged, not into xterm
20:53.52Linux_Usersource of source page
20:53.55Linux_Userops source forge i download from here
20:53.58brlcadLinux_User: and you compiled?
20:54.09BigIslandVeganyes, i typed that command into the MGED command window, grey one
20:54.21brlcad"opendb"
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20:54.47BigIslandVeganopendb by itself
20:54.47MikeC1Hi
20:54.51MikeC1Twingy you there?
20:54.52brlcadhowdy bub
20:54.59brlcadBigIslandVegan: sure
20:55.09brlcadBigIslandVegan: either by itself of with the path after it
20:55.09Twingysorta
20:55.15MikeC1brlcad: Im trying to compile adrt
20:55.34brlcadTwingy: "W" was looking for you but said she'll talk to you Tuesday
20:55.53Twingyokie
20:55.55Linux_Userbrlcad: copiled i extracted and i didint find the script how i copile?
20:55.59MikeC1brlcad: and i am running autocnf to generate the necessary conf files but it says there is a missing required file config.guess and config.sub
20:56.16MikeC1brlcad: actually automake
20:56.30BigIslandVeganREAD ONLY BRL_GSI Paris Air Show Soviet HAVOC Helicopter, etc
20:56.32brlcadLinux_User: run ./autogen.sh for starters then ./configure
20:56.40brlcadBigIslandVegan: that's good
20:56.55BigIslandVeganwhat did that command do?
20:56.55brlcadBigIslandVegan: now 'e havoc'
20:57.10brlcadBigIslandVegan: you just opened a sample geometry database that was part of the install
20:57.16BigIslandVegandone
20:57.38brlcad'e havoc' means edit the havoc object, which happens to be something mildly interesting
20:58.13brlcadMikeC1: run autogen.sh instead of the steps manually
20:58.48MikeC1brlcad: ok so cd src/adrt; ../autogen.sh; ?
20:58.55BigIslandVeganI see a wireframe helicopter
20:59.03BigIslandVegangreem amd greu
20:59.13BigIslandVegangreen
20:59.19brlcadMikeC1: no, at the top-level
20:59.27MikeC1brlcad: I did that already
20:59.29brlcadBigIslandVegan: that's a start
20:59.37brlcadMikeC1:  and it succeeded or failed?
20:59.46MikeC1succeeded and I did a make after that
20:59.54brlcadBigIslandVegan: File->Raytrace 
20:59.55MikeC1and after installation I did not see the adrt binary
21:00.04brlcadMikeC1: after autogen.sh you have to run configure
21:00.12MikeC1brlcad: Yes I did that too
21:00.16Linux_Userbrlcad: where is the floder where i musth do this?
21:00.26MikeC1brlcad: sh autogen.sh; ./configure; make; make install;
21:00.27BigIslandVegani see the raytrace control panel
21:00.31brlcadMikeC1: did the configure summary say adrt was enabled?
21:00.37MikeC1brlcad: yes
21:00.51brlcadMikeC1: then you cd'd to src/adrt
21:00.57brlcad?
21:01.07brlcadBigIslandVegan: hit the raytrace button ;)
21:01.17MikeC1brlcad: well before I ran autogen.sh I cd'd into adrt and I thought I could build adrt by itself
21:01.28MikeC1brlcad: I tried running autoconf, automake etc and faield
21:01.37MikeC1brlcad: then i went to the top level and found autogen.sh
21:01.45MikeC1brlcad: I ran that and it did say adrt was enabled
21:02.02MikeC1brlcad: did a configure and make and make isntall and looked in the installation directory
21:02.07MikeC1brlcad: and did not find the adrt birnary
21:02.09brlcadBigIslandVegan: to hide the wireframe, you can select Framebuffer -> Underlay/Overlay to hide/unhide
21:02.25MikeC1brlcad: the adrt libraries are not in the installation lib directory either
21:02.40brlcadMikeC1: there is no 'adrt' binary.. it's a collection of binaries like 'isst_observer'
21:02.52BigIslandVeganI see, hmm
21:02.58BigIslandVeganneato
21:03.17MikeC1brlcad: i dont see an isst_observer in the bin installation directory
21:03.24brlcadBigIslandVegan: not incredibly purdy, but slightly more interesting than most of the other "freebies" that get installed
21:03.44brlcadMikeC1: cd to src/adrt and make .. what does it say/do?
21:04.18``ErikI d'no, sphereflake is kinda nifty... m35 is ok... moss world is a pretty normal looking 'first raytrace demo'
21:04.50MikeC1brlcad: it is going through configure right now
21:04.52brlcaddunno why
21:05.06brlcadMikeC1: okay, that means you did something out of order ;)
21:05.17MikeC1brlcad: ok Im going to start over
21:05.25brlcadit should be fine to let it finish
21:05.42BigIslandVeganwhat i would like to do is digitally represent a housing project I have in my mind, using ~30' diameter steel reinforced concrete domes arranged in close proximity, surrounded by a retaining wall, the domes would be covered with soil, each dome would have a cupola sticking above the soil. You think brl-cad would be good or should I try to learn blender instead? I'm new to both
21:06.29brlcadBigIslandVegan: it depends on what your intent of the modeling is -- if it's just to make some pictures, blender will probably be better
21:06.57brlcadif it's to perform any sort of analysis, compute values/weights, etc, brl-cad should be better
21:06.59BigIslandVeganraytrace complete
21:07.06brlcadboth are going to have a steep learning curve
21:07.18Linux_Userbrlcad i cant find the autogen please reply me where is it?
21:07.19BigIslandVegani figured that last part to be true
21:07.37brlcadLinux_User: autogen.sh .. it's at the top level  ./autogen.sh
21:08.11MikeC1brlcad: also I got the source from CVS
21:08.15Linux_Userbrl cad in usr ?
21:08.31Linux_Userwhere is the past of it?
21:08.33brlcadLinux_User: you said you downloaded source not binary, right?
21:08.39brlcadLinux_User: hablas español?
21:08.57Linux_Useri downlloaded the file of source forge .net
21:09.02Linux_Usersi
21:09.06brlcadLinux_User: brl-cad installs into /usr/brlcad by default, you'd have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path
21:09.33Linux_Userhow i didi it?
21:09.37Linux_Usercomo eu faco isso?:
21:09.56brlcadLinux_User: si prefieres, escribame en español y te contesto en ingles o español
21:10.34BigIslandVeganoh wow, multilingual even :-o
21:11.07BigIslandVeganThanks``Erik and brlcad, very much!
21:11.21brlcadBigIslandVegan: you're quite welcome, happy modeling
21:11.28BigIslandVegan;_)
21:11.51brlcadLinux_User: ls -lad /usr/brlcad   tienes algo alli?
21:12.11MikeC1brlcad: is there a repository of .g files somwhere other than the ones that come from share/db?
21:13.03Linux_Userbrlcad: oly pastes the bin include man and share
21:13.04brlcadMikeC1: there are many repositories, though most are restricted distribution or only available to certain groups for a fee or not available without a clearance..etc
21:13.20Linux_Userand lib too
21:13.38brlcadLinux_User: so it sounds like it's installed.. which is good
21:13.56brlcadLinux_User: run "export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH" si usas bash/sh
21:14.11brlcadand then "mged"
21:16.32pra5ad``Erik, if i go with DEBUG(asd << asd << asd);   ... can i do multiline << operations?
21:16.34brlcadMikeC1: I've been trying to get the air force to release a couple tank models to me for inclusion, that will be very nice if/when it happens
21:16.50``Erikyes
21:16.52MikeC1brlcad: that would be cool
21:16.52brlcadheh
21:17.08``Erikgcc -E  will show you what it does
21:17.26MikeC1brlcad: it seems isst_observer or any other supporting adrt things are not part of the 7.6.0 linux binary distribution?
21:17.34brlcadvery cool, one in particular is the T72, beautiful and externally detailed model
21:18.01brlcadMikeC1: that is correct, not included by default in the binary distributions
21:18.21MikeC1brlcad: understoof
21:18.24MikeC1brlcad: understood*
21:18.36Linux_Userbrlcad: eu escrvi e dei enter mas nada se passou
21:18.43brlcadadrt makes use of a couple external resources that aren't included/includable, so adrt ends up getting disabled during configure
21:18.54pra5adDEBUG(asd <<
21:18.56pra5adasd);
21:19.00pra5adshould work fine?
21:19.06Linux_Userera apra ter usado o comado onde?
21:19.10``Erikyes, prasad...
21:19.13brlcadLinux_User: cuando escribes el export o mged?
21:19.20pra5adhrm
21:20.34brlcadLinux_User: solo escribe el export una vez.. despuez escribe mged
21:22.29brlcadLinux_User: type "/usr/brlcad/bin/rt" .. what does it say?  command not found? or a usage message about BRL-CAD?
21:24.07AchiestDragonwhat about user submitted .g files for inclusion as examples , shurely there must be someone with some
21:24.35brlcadAchiestDragon: I'd happily include new ones if/when people provide them
21:24.35MikeC1brlcad: I deleted my brlcad build and installation directories, checked out code from CVS, ran sh autogen.sh, ran ./configure and it says adrt is enabled, is there anything I can look for in the src/adrt directory to verify that adrt will be built?
21:24.49``Erikpra5ad: http://smluc.org/~erik/nuts.cc  (for shits and giggles, hit it with g++ -E nuts.cc | tail -n 20)
21:25.36Linux_Userbrlcad: i dont find rt
21:26.08Linux_Userno such a file or directori
21:26.41brlcadMikeC1: just compilation success, no errors -- run make and then ls -la src/adrt/isst/observer/isst_observer
21:26.51MikeC1ok
21:27.20MikeC1im building the debug version of brlcad
21:27.39brlcadLinux_User: hmmm .. that means you didn't install fully or correctly
21:28.03brlcadLinux_User: you downloaded the source or binary distribution?
21:28.28brlcadMikeC1: that should be fine, just to make sure everything works
21:29.58Linux_Useri will downladed the compressed file of souceforge.net version 7.6.0
21:30.16Linux_Useri dont know if this is binary or source
21:30.33brlcadwhat's the name of what you downloaded?
21:30.49brlcadthe file
21:32.42AchiestDragonwell into day 4 or 5 of the render of m35.g here , lost count , still no percentage indication shown
21:33.03MikeC1Achiest are you rendering an animation?
21:33.24Linux_User<PROTECTED>
21:34.44AchiestDragonno single frame , photonmap , with lots of photons  4194304  
21:35.18brlcadLinux_User: that's a binary distribution
21:35.37Linux_Userok and now waht i do?
21:35.59brlcadLinux_User: you unzipped and untarred?
21:39.12AchiestDragonand cpu still trickleing at 25% usage ,
21:39.48Linux_Userunziped yes untarred... waht is untarred?
21:40.28brlcadbunzip2 brlcad-7.6.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2
21:40.34brlcadtar xvf brlcad-7.6.0_linux_ia32.tar
21:40.49brlcadsudo cp -R usr/brlcad /usr/.
21:41.09AchiestDragonquestion does the raytracer have a throttle back function that would allow me to set the max percentage total cou usage, would be usefull on some machines where the cooling is not up to 100% cpu for more than a hr or so
21:41.36brlcadAchiestDragon: with that many photons, I doubt it will finish for weeks .. not worth it
21:42.10brlcadAchiestDragon: by default, rt renices itself so that it doesn't take over the system's performance
21:42.38Linux_Useryes it is in the paste user now
21:42.50AchiestDragonwell ether it finishes before archer for linux is in cvs or it gets stoped while i cvs up
21:42.58brlcadLinux_User: no errors?
21:43.21brlcadAchiestDragon: yeah, archer for linux will be available before that finishes :)
21:44.19Linux_Usernao mas o atrquivo configure e autogen nao constavam aonde deviam estar nem no zip file
21:44.27*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@66.15.214.167)
21:44.28Linux_Useri am redonwloading it
21:45.30brlcadLinux_User: there is no configure/autogen.sh.. that's a binary distribution that is just ready to use
21:45.41AchiestDragonwas reading some grid computer forums , the grid software used any spare cpu capacaty (same way as brlcad does) , but there was concern that some systems (especialy over clocked ones) tended to overheat and run the risk of burning out the cpu
21:45.59Linux_Userhow i execute the progam
21:45.59Linux_User?
21:46.08brlcadLinux_User: try /usr/brlcad/bin/rt again
21:46.58Linux_Userno such a valid file or directori
21:47.02Linux_Useri donwloaded this now brlcad-7.6.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2
21:47.26Linux_Userim extracting
21:47.34AchiestDragonso it was sugested that thay include a max continuous percentage usage , so the cpu could run continuously at 70%  
21:49.13AchiestDragononly realy affects some sytems where the cooling on alot of desktops and laptops is only rated for a constant 70 to 75% cpu ,laptops are worse , alot worse
21:50.06Linux_Userman its very low the extract
21:51.04brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad    what does it show?
21:51.31brlcadAchiestDragon: one might say those are fundamentally flawed systems ;)
21:51.45AchiestDragonyes aggrees
21:52.30AchiestDragonbut lots of people have them , and most dont know about it
21:52.30Linux_Userbin include man lib share
21:52.46brlcadI don't see a reason to not accept a cpu throttling patch to the tracers, but I don't think I'll be writing it until I have a massive cluster that requires it at my disposal ;)
21:52.59brlcadLinux_User: ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/rt*
21:54.32AchiestDragonmay be worth a note about the 100% usage in the documentation and that the system cooling should be up to it
21:55.07Linux_Userno such a valide file or directori
21:55.21Linux_Useri m redonwloading this file brlcad-7.6.0_linux_ia32.tar.g
21:55.50Linux_Usermyu conection its hight speed
21:56.06Linux_Userbut i cant fint this rt
21:56.11Linux_Userin bin
21:56.35AchiestDragonor you may get the following bug reports from some users :-    works fine but when doing a long trace the system crashes after XX hrs  
21:56.45Linux_Userops
21:56.46Linux_Useri find
21:57.30brlcadLinux_User: ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin .. just what is in there?
21:57.51Linux_Uservery much executable files
21:58.02Linux_Useri find rt in grafic mode but i can run it
21:58.14brlcadLinux_User: you mean mged works?
21:58.36Linux_Useri dont know aht is mged?
21:58.39brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/m*
21:58.52brlcadmged is the primary modeler application
22:00.26Linux_Useri cant find mged
22:00.43Linux_Userno its here butt dont start
22:00.49Linux_Userhow i star the program?
22:02.19Linux_Useri find mged and rt but they dont start when i clic in they how i start the program?
22:02.39brlcadLinux_User: you start them on the command line
22:02.46brlcadexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
22:02.47brlcadmged
22:03.49Linux_Usercomand not found
22:04.09Linux_Useri tip export like you mean and tipo mged and the console said comand not found
22:05.01brlcadwhat shell do you use?
22:05.08brlcadbash, tcsh, zsh?
22:05.11Linux_Userkurumin
22:05.25Linux_Userkde
22:06.04brlcadthat's the distribution.. and the gui.. what's the command line?
22:06.18brlcadtype: echo $SHELL
22:07.04Linux_Useris /bin/bash
22:07.34brlcadthen something isn't adding up with what you're telling me
22:08.00brlcadif there are lots of executables in /usr/brlcad/bin, there should be an rt and mged minimally
22:08.27Linux_Useri type shenm and aperare it: /bin/bash
22:08.29brlcadif you can find them through kde yet cannot on the command line, it sounds like you might not be using the command line correctly.. ?
22:09.13Linux_Useri use the grafic mode to execute ant he dont work too
22:09.35brlcadthat won't work
22:09.50brlcadbut the fact that you find them in graphic mode yet cannot on the command line is wrong
22:09.58Linux_Userthere are very much executables in bin i tiped export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH 10 times and PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH 5 time and wont work
22:10.13brlcadecho $PATH
22:10.16Linux_Useryes sorry for english you speak portuguese?
22:10.22brlcadI wish I did :)
22:10.40brlcadI can understand it usually, but cannot write/speak
22:11.23brlcadecho $PATH
22:11.25Linux_Userok look eu escrevi echo $PATH e apareceu muitas coisas
22:11.38brlcadpaste them here
22:11.42Linux_Userusr/brlcad/bin:usr/brlcad/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/games
22:11.46Linux_Useris this
22:12.01brlcadokay, that's good
22:12.31brlcadthe first two are wrong.. missing the "/" in front of usr, but the third is right so you should be fine.. :)
22:12.48brlcadthat's all of it?
22:12.52MikeC1brlcad: I jsut finished a make and I do not see a src/adrt/isst/observer/isst_observer
22:13.25brlcadMikeC1: did you get any error after make?
22:13.25Linux_Userusr/brlcad/bin:usr/brlcad/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/games
22:13.31Linux_Useryes it is all of it
22:13.38brlcadLinux_User: okay, good
22:13.47Linux_Usertherea re not hte / in the frist usr
22:13.47brlcadLinux_User: type: which brlman
22:13.52MikeC1brlcad: make continue all the way through and did not stop if there was an error
22:14.07brlcadMikeC1: what version are you working with?
22:14.18MikeC1BRL-CAD Release 7.6.1, Build 20051007
22:14.20Linux_Useri tiped now?
22:14.21MikeC1downloaded from CVS
22:14.42brlcadLinux_User: yes, type "which brlman" .. what does it say?
22:14.50brlcadMikeC1: ah, okay, should be good
22:14.58brlcadMikeC1: so now cd src/adrt and make
22:15.15brlcadcopy-paste the output to pastebin
22:15.19Linux_Usernothing its like pat olni jump one line
22:15.28brlcadLinux_User: okay.. hrmm
22:15.37MikeC1brlcad: it is compiling now
22:18.45Linux_Userman thanks for help if you find the solution for me send for acheicaleb@gmail.com i must go now tanks
22:19.06brlcadLinux_User: okay, sorry I'm not sure what's going on in your situation
22:19.11brlcadlike it's untarring wrong
22:21.25Linux_Usern this case send me the link where i find a diferent version
22:22.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oh yeah, twingy disabled ADRT permanently, though I forget why. re-enable it.
22:22.19brlcadMikeC1: I forget exactly why, but adrt was disabled even though it says it wasn't
22:22.27MikeC1brlcad: oh ok
22:22.37brlcadcd'ing to the directory is a simple workaround though (or editing configure.ac
22:22.42MikeC1brlcad: I'm having a python issue, im going to fix that
22:22.55MikeC1brlcad: yea thanks at least i can get it to compile to some level now
22:23.39brlcadMikeC1: k, you might have to edit the Makefile.am's to get the build to complete correctly, or pass CFLAGS/LDFLAGS etc (make CFLAGS="...")
22:23.47pra5ad``Erik, whats the easiest way in sh script to traverse a dir tree
22:23.52MikeC1brlcad: understood
22:23.55brlcadpra5ad: find
22:24.20pra5adthe captured output is in array form?
22:25.04brlcadpra5ad: sudo find /tmp -type f -exec rm -rf {} \;
22:25.28brlcadpra5ad: what are you trying to do?
22:25.47brlcadfind is the tool regardless .. it can output file/dir lists or run commands on files/dirs recursively
22:25.55pra5adrun anything with _test in the directory tree + wait for user input between each exec
22:28.28brlcadwait for user input?
22:28.35brlcadwhat sort of waiting?
22:29.15pra5ad<press c to quit; any key to continue>
22:29.20pra5adsomething like that
22:29.52brlcadahh, you'll probably want to script the sucker then
22:30.06pra5adyea
22:30.12brlcadecho "read blah" > wait
22:30.13pra5adtrying to figure out the dir traversal
22:30.20brlcadotherwise something like:  find dir_tree -name \*_test -exec echo "ready to run {}" \; -exec sh wait \; -exec {} \;
22:31.04brlcadfiles="`find dir_tree -name \*_test`"
22:31.16brlcadfor file in $files ; do
22:31.27brlcadecho "<press c to quit; any key to continue>"
22:31.34brlcadread quit
22:32.08brlcad[ "x$quit" = "xc" ] && exit 0
22:32.11brlcad$file
22:32.12brlcaddone
23:21.38*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@66.15.214.167)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051008

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051008

00:38.58*** join/#brlcad MikeC1 (n=joe@ip68-227-215-210.dc.dc.cox.net)
00:59.27*** join/#brlcad `Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
04:51.07*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-29-221.balt.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:52.38*** join/#brlcad cad769 (n=1805bd65@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:38.11*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
07:38.11*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source! || Release 7.6.0 is now being prepared
17:39.50*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
19:29.32*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
20:25.56*** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri02-037.dialin.iskon.hr)
22:45.09pra5adhiyo
22:46.24*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051009

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051009

01:31.58*** join/#brlcad craigbass1976 (n=chatzill@d-216-195-164-117.gwi.net)
01:53.54craigbass1976Is anyone in here?
03:06.21pra5adTwingy, what font lib do u use for adrt?
03:11.55Twingymy own
03:16.27Twingyhrm
03:16.49*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
03:20.50pra5adyea?
03:20.56pra5adusing freetype2?
03:21.27pra5ador just a bmp of 8x8 glyphs?
03:27.38Twingyooh
03:27.57Twingybitmaps
03:28.03Twingy#include font.h
03:28.13Twingymade it in gimp
03:28.47pra5adhowd u make the bmp?
03:28.57pra5adgimp plugin?
03:29.00pra5admanually?
03:29.44Twingyused fixed font, typed 128 characters
03:29.52Twingyused SDL_Rect to map em
03:40.06pra5addo u have font color support?
03:43.41Twingynope
03:43.50Twingytrivial to add though
03:46.03pra5adhow so?
03:46.37Twingywell, for my font it's got 2 colors cause it's shadowed
03:46.54Twingyset the primary color to 1,1,1 and on init() just set the color
03:47.11Twingyor
03:47.32Twingyuse some sdl foo
03:47.32pra5adi meant multi font color at run time
03:47.32Twingysdl's got masking
03:47.32pra5ad<draw text in blue> <draw text in yellow>
03:47.32pra5adoh?
03:47.32Twingyso set the color to white
03:47.32pra5adcool
03:48.14TwingyI've got an idea for nitrous propane pulsed rocket motor
03:49.41Twingyya know, a pair of jet engines mounted to the side of the rocket for initial ascent would be kinda clever
03:49.54Twingythen at 5 miles it dumps em
03:51.52pra5addo u have alpha in ur font bmp? how are u loading it into the sdl surface?
03:52.08Twingyit's alpha 32bit
03:52.51pra5adraw? no header?
03:53.09Twingyhrm?
03:53.18pra5adwindows 'bitmap' has a header
03:53.22Twingyoh
03:53.23Twingyuse gimp
03:53.28Twingysave it as a "c-source" file
03:53.31Twingyrename it to font.h
03:53.35pra5adrofl
03:53.36Twingyand you're set
03:53.48pra5adok then what?
03:53.51pra5adsdl_load_bmp?
03:53.53Twingyno
03:53.57Twingyit's a struct
03:54.08Twingyit's raw rgba data
03:54.13Twingymemcpy it into surface->pixels
03:54.20Twingycheck out my display.c file
03:54.23pra5adk
03:54.43Twingyit's like 15 lines of code
03:55.17Twingyhrm, I think when I get my machine tools I'm gonna build a jet engine and rocket motor
04:00.36TwingyI wonder how many years I'd have to spend in school before I'd actually get to build one, heh
04:48.14pra5adyo
04:48.19pra5adare u using an opengl context?
04:48.22Twingyno
04:48.26pra5adah
04:48.53pra5adcos sdl blit w/ color key transparency doesnt produce 'transparency'
04:48.58pra5adjust replaces it with white
04:49.25pra5adhmm perhaps not
04:50.04pra5adnm same thing :(
04:51.15Twingywhite means you don't have a n^2 texture
04:55.43pra5adhuh?
04:56.00pra5adsdl blit doesnt go through opengl
05:05.22Twingyerm
05:05.36Twingydon't recall
05:05.42Twingybeen too long since I've done opengl
05:16.12MaloeranSDL 2d graphics operations can go through opengl calls if you pass some flag to SDL on context creation, but it's not really recommended
05:18.33pra5adoh
05:19.13MaloeranSDL_OPENGLBLIT on SDL_SetVideoMode() if I recall correctly
05:20.59pra5adi had that
05:21.09pra5adtook it out; nothing shows up now
05:21.19pra5addo i blit after the flip?
05:22.38MaloeranBlitting operations are the equivalent of glDrawPixels() calls, render before flipping buffers
05:26.15pra5adw/o sdl_openglblit, updaterect seg faults
05:26.29pra5adgldrawpixels it is
05:26.50MaloeranYes, just use glDrawPixels directly
05:27.18pra5adwas doing blitsurface + updaterect b4
05:27.22MaloeranIf the image is static, it would be more efficient to upload it as a texture and render a textured quad
05:27.23pra5adlatter was seg faulting
05:28.01pra5adi agree, but at this point in time efficiency isnt an issue =)
05:28.47MaloeranIt's also a matter of flexibility, textured quads can be rendered with bi/trilinear filtering to adapt to any viewport size...
05:29.06MaloeranWhat are you working on, briefly?
05:29.09pra5adso the seg fault screwed up my desktop (gnome on debian)
05:29.26pra5adany way to restore it w/o ctrl-alt-backspace
05:29.49MaloeranScrewed how?
05:30.10pra5addesktop seems to have a bigger resolution that the monitor.. can scroll around with mouse
05:30.39MaloeranAh right.  leftctrl+leftalt+numpadPlus  or +numpadMinus
05:30.55MaloeranBy default, this should cycle through available resolutions
05:31.14pra5adno go
05:31.29pra5adctrl-alt-bspace is gonna log me out (iirc)
05:31.37pra5adrather not do that
05:34.10*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-29-221.balt.east.verizon.net)
05:34.15pra5adah well
05:34.17pra5adhad to kill x
05:35.28MaloeranYou don't have to kill x to change resolution ;), but anyway
05:36.39pra5addidnt work thru gnome :(
05:36.55pra5addont really know any other way to change res
05:39.56brlcadpra5ad: ctrl-alt-plus ctrl-alt-minus don't work?
05:40.17brlcadXconfigurator can change it for you too, iirc
05:40.55pra5addidnt work
05:41.03MaloeranEh.  xrandr -s 0
05:41.07pra5adlol it works now
05:41.19pra5addidnt work after the seg fault :(
05:41.53MaloeranTry xrandr after the next crash :)
05:42.10pra5adheh np
07:02.37pra5ad#_#
07:08.21Twingy80mpg is quite tempting
13:34.35`Eriksean: flex -i
13:40.10brlcad`Erik: and a more portable way?
13:40.46brlcadi think I have something working just using the rules where it converts unknowns and reprocesses caseinsensitive
13:42.49`Erik*shrug* filter rules to force lower (or upper) case?
13:43.16brlcadyeah, that's sort of what I used
13:43.22`Erik(does irix lack flex or something?)
13:43.27brlcadwas hoping for some sort of %rule
13:44.19`Erikd'no of any % rule, I tend to do case sensitive shtuff *shrug* :)
13:44.20brlcadmore worried about solaris, aix, hpux and older systems
13:44.40`Erikcould always distribute the yylex.c file
13:44.53`Erikthen they only need flex if they modify the .l files
13:45.12brlcadcould, but changing the rule works
13:48.57`Erik[::alpha::] for all your characters? :)
13:51.42brlcadheh, nah .. when it finds an unknown symbol, it converts them to lowercase and pushes them back on the stream
14:51.27pra5adhow do u link against .so and not .a?
14:53.03brlcad-l
14:53.23pra5adyea?
16:03.26*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
16:33.41Twingygrumph
17:15.09`Erikprasad: yeah...
17:42.22*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
17:42.24MaloeranEven the credit card(s) are fully loaded? :)
17:51.59pra5adwho does the gnu free documentation licence apply to code snippets
17:52.30pra5ads/who/how
19:00.45Twingygood run *grunt*
19:02.12Twingyhaha, net worth $5.02
20:02.32pra5adyes
20:05.14TwingyI wanna build a hybrid rocket jet engine
20:05.27Twingyusing nitrous and propane with a platinum catalyst
20:06.09Twingywhere the nitrous kicks in at 8 miles altitude
20:06.52TwingyI think something like that would be rather efficient
20:16.52pra5adw/ a type-r sticker
20:30.24`Erikyou fruityassed fruity twink
20:30.24`Erik:D
20:33.48`Erikman, this is fun
20:34.54Twingymm, 3 weeks till I move
21:08.57pra5adi hate tga
21:11.47Twingyand tga hates you
21:29.17pra5adsigh finally
21:29.25pra5adtext in opengl
21:29.46Twingyheh
21:29.56Twingythat'll teach you to make text *grunt*
21:30.05TwingyI actually wrote my own font system for nurbana
21:30.17Twingymade a font editor too, all fonts were made out of bezier curves
21:30.36Twingywas kinda fun
21:30.53Twingytook 2 days, just stripped out a bunch of junk out of the modeler and I had a font editor
21:33.01Twingywee, table works
22:12.10pra5adhrm how do u modulate texture colors
22:12.20pra5adi know how to do it in dx9
22:12.32pra5adnot in opengl :(
22:17.57pra5adohh that was easy
22:17.59pra5adnm :)
22:26.10MaloeranAre you around Twingy? I would have a question on go-through ray needs
22:28.02MaloeranBasically, are these rays typically stopped after a variable amount of steps, or you usually let them go through all the scene, or up to a specific count of steps?  A callback per hit is costly, having to flush the whole working data set in registers to stack for the function call, and restore it back
22:29.56Twingythe rays are stateful
22:30.13Twingyeach successive call to the intersection function continues
22:31.03MaloeranAh, so you don't check a return value from the callback to know if the ray must be stopped, for example
22:31.14TwingyI do
22:31.23Twingybut the architecture will soon to what I just described
22:31.29Twingy*change
22:31.36MaloeranRight, thanks
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051010

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051010

00:26.18*** join/#brlcad DarkMaster (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
04:23.37*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
05:04.51Twingyah, performance is good again
05:06.37MaloeranAhah, that just can't be good
05:07.17Twingyit's quite tastey :)
05:08.57MaloeranI'm sure, maybe if you cover the plate with Parmesan Regiano and Romano :)
05:11.12Twingythat would help
05:11.15Twingybut I was on a budget
05:11.25TwingyI moved $4 from my one account to the other
05:11.36Twingyso I technically have $7 I can spend on wed if I need to
05:12.11PKMOBILEwhoa youre rich
05:12.16PKMOBILEcan i have a $1?
05:12.48TwingyI don't think the ATM spits out $1 bills anymore
05:12.55Twingyor $5 for that matter
05:13.08Twingyonly way I can access that money is buying something
05:13.16Twingythat reminds me
05:13.34Twingyyou wanna make $25 on evening of nov 1?
05:13.45PKMOBILEhow?
05:13.53Twingyhelping me make a couple trips to my new house
05:14.00PKMOBILEok
05:14.16Twingyprobly end up moving like a couch, a book case, and maybe something else
05:14.31Twingyand that's about it
05:14.42PKMOBILEim free nov 1
05:14.58Twingyk, probly like 6:30pm - 8:30pm
05:15.03PKMOBILEok
05:15.14TwingyI'm renting a truck
05:16.32PKMOBILEok... may want to remind me when it gets closer
05:17.12Twingyk
05:17.36pra5adis this offer open to everyone?
05:17.44Twingyeveryone but prasad
05:18.19pra5adman tex fonts look like ass on lcds
05:18.24Twingyyep
05:18.47Twingyprasad, I'm gonna get the honda insight
05:18.53Twingy80mpg
05:18.57pra5adno fidelity shape-wise until about 14px height
05:19.14pra5adhow long till u recoup cost?
05:19.25TwingyI'll save $1k a year in gas
05:19.38pra5addo the math
05:19.44Twingyplus $2600 tax credit in '06
05:19.48Twingycar is $21k
05:20.38Twingysaving about $80 a month it'll pay for the insurance and gas
05:21.20Twingyprobly wait till march 1 to get it
05:21.34TwingyI wanna put down atleast $10k to finance it
05:21.52Twingythen jan1 07 I might just pay it off
05:22.52Twingythen I'll end up getting sucked into some kind of relationship
05:23.06Twingyand money will be gone :(
05:25.11pra5adsucker
05:34.23TwingyI'm so glad we have tommorrow off
05:36.25MaloeranThe performance gain is sweet, but how painful to debug :)
07:24.43*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
07:38.41pra5adwho's the resident vector math guru here
07:41.02pra5adohh redundancy..
07:44.45MaloeranJust ask away, I'm sure someone here can answer
07:46.01pra5adthink i found the answer
07:46.11pra5adimplementing camera strafing
07:46.40pra5adseems i need the vector perpendicular to the up vector and the view vector
07:46.54pra5adas in cross product
07:53.10pra5adhow do most ppl manage objects in the scene that require their own transformations?
07:53.39pra5addo they loadident() -> apply camera transform() -> render object() .. for each object?
07:53.53pra5ader apply object transform() somewhere in there
07:54.11pra5ador is there an easier/better way
07:55.22MaloeranDepends of your needs, it's common to maintain a matrix per object and glPushMatrix,glMultMatrix,Render,glPopMatrix for each
07:56.02MaloeranYou can follow the same patterns if you have objects with an orientation and position relative to others, you may want to store your rotations as quaternions for more flexibility
07:56.14pra5addone and done
07:57.55pra5adjust to clarify, the camera transformation has to be mult'ed per object, yes?
07:58.14pra5adi assume the glmultmat is the camera
07:59.48pra5adgah .. brain is shutting down
07:59.49MaloeranYes, you post-multiply the object's matrices by the current modelview matrix, after setting up the eye
08:00.15MaloeranI'm using the opengl vocabulary, this is what you are working with, right?
08:00.21pra5adyea
08:01.54pra5adwhat's the benefit of pushmat in this case?
08:03.17MaloeranJust to restore the previous matrix, to render the following objects
08:06.29pra5adsample call list: camera.setperspective(does modelview transforms); pushmat(); obj.translate(); obj.render(); popmat();
08:07.02pra5adthat sequence wont position the obj correctly relative to the eye, yes?
08:08.39MaloeranWhy would it not? You have the consider the translation matrix will be multiplied by the current matrix though
08:08.59MaloeranPersonally, I find it less bothersome to just manage matrices myself and glLoadMatrix
08:10.20pra5adahh
08:14.16pra5adthanks much =)
08:15.08Maloeran:) Good luck
08:15.59pra5adfix one more problem and i sleep
08:16.45pra5adview vector X (0,1,0) .. causes strafing to be x-axis aligned
08:19.16MaloeranYour 3 axis vectors are stored in your "eye" matrix, [2,6,10] is forward
14:13.07`Erik*yawn*
15:36.07*** join/#brlcad MikeC1 (n=mcaruso@pool-138-88-91-62.res.east.verizon.net)
15:38.54*** join/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-138-88-91-62.res.east.verizon.net)
15:39.13razhello mikeC1
15:39.17MikeC1hello raz
15:39.31razwhere is everybody?
15:39.48*** part/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-138-88-91-62.res.east.verizon.net)
16:06.40pra5ad[2, 6, 10] cross [0, 1, 0] gives me correct strafing
16:07.12pra5adbut using that to translate camera forward/back isn't working right
17:14.09pra5adgah this camera is pissing me off
17:21.16pra5adrofl
17:21.49pra5admaybe i should start typing something in this channel whenever i have a problem
17:21.58pra5adgets solved cpl of minutes later
17:22.03pra5ad:)
18:03.52pra5adanyone know how to get the orthogonal vector (AxB) when  A.dir == -/+B.dir ?
18:30.57*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
18:43.20`Erikmebbe you should borrow a linear algebra book instead ;)
18:56.03MaloeranHm sorry pra5ad, I think I confused with my ray-tracer's matrix orientation, try [8,9,10] :) and [0,1,2], [4,5,6] for the other axes
19:11.33pra5adthat's funny
19:11.39pra5adsince 2,6,10 works fine
19:13.07MaloeranAh, good
19:14.39MaloeranYou shouldn't have to cross though, use [0,4,8] or [1,5,9] directly for your other axes
19:16.02Twingy?This is new stuff,? said Linda Hernandez, a New Mexico State University engineering student. ?It gets you excited.? This first-of-its-kind air show was all about space travel. It was created to give people ? who might be future customers ? an insight to the new industry of space tourism.
19:16.15Twingyhttp://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=h_starchaser_mishap_02.jpg
19:16.19AchiestDragon:( the g-dxf only seems to convert .g to a 2d dxf format
19:17.00pra5adno need to cross!
19:17.01pra5adexcellent
19:17.19pra5ader which axis is which
19:17.43MaloeranX,Y,Z :), in that order
19:18.34pra5adhrm
19:19.18pra5adif 2,6,10 is forward, 0,4,8 would be up?
19:20.05pra5adnm 1,5,9
19:28.44`Eriko.O
19:31.37pra5addunno how it works, but it does =) thanks again
19:34.35MaloeranIt really would be useful to understand the math behind 3d graphics ; second chapter of the Redbook, http://skal.planet-d.net/demo/matrixfaq.htm
19:37.12AchiestDragonrealy need it to beable to convert it into dxf with 3d position info ,, do any of the converters give a 3d output ??
19:39.01Twingyyou could try g-stl
19:39.15TwingyI don't think I've ever used g-dxf
19:39.22Twingybut I know dxf-g works, most of the time
19:40.07AchiestDragonthinks i remeber getting dxf-g importing a 3d image into brlcad
19:40.41Twingy*shrug*
19:40.55Twingywhat do the man pages say
19:41.01AchiestDragonbut just trying other way at moment
19:41.16AchiestDragontheres a manual :) never looked
19:41.40AchiestDragonif it needs a manual its way to complicated :D
19:41.59Twingythe man page would tell you what the output is
19:42.50AchiestDragonhmmm
19:42.52AchiestDragondave@linux:~/brlcad/bin> man g-dxf
19:42.52AchiestDragonNo manual entry for g-dxf
19:44.59Twingyis it in your path?
19:44.59AchiestDragonand the  g-acad  does not produce a valid dwg file that autocad can read
19:45.15Twingyman -M /location/to/manpages g-dxf
19:46.47brlcadit produces 3d dxfs, not 2d dxf
19:47.42AchiestDragonwell done a simple .g file ( one torus ) eported it to dxf and got a flat view of one
19:50.22*** join/#brlcad MikeC1 (n=MikeC@pool-138-88-91-62.res.east.verizon.net)
19:52.11brlcadAchiestDragon: g-dxf, I'd file a bug report on it -- but it sounds like something that just wasn't implemented fully (torus export) .. do you get the same effect with other objects?
19:53.07AchiestDragonhmm
19:53.37brlcadAchiestDragon: also, g-acad is _not_ autocad .. ACAD is a different CAD package
19:53.56AchiestDragonwell still trying diferent g-dxf export options  things atm
19:54.06AchiestDragonk on acad
19:54.46brlcadhttp://www.asc.hpc.mil/software/info/acad/
19:54.56brlcadlockheed martin cad system
19:56.00AchiestDragondave@linux:~/brlcad/bin> ./g-dxf  -o/home/dave/1.dwg /home/dave/1.g tor.1
19:56.00AchiestDragondb_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/tor.1'
19:56.00AchiestDragon224 triangles written
19:56.36brlcadthat looks like the cause
19:56.43brlcadtry putting the torus in a region
19:59.13MikeC1are there any known issues with compiling brlcad using gcc 4.0.0-8?
20:00.48brlcadMikeC1: not that I know of.  if there are, they'd be very minor issues
20:01.03brlcadi built on 4 just a couple days ago
20:01.39MikeC1im getting a compile error when compiling jove_buf.c
20:02.13MikeC1./jove.h:253: warning: built-in function ‘exp’ declared as non-function
20:02.14MikeC1./jove.h:472: error: conflicting types for ‘getline’
20:02.14MikeC1/usr/include/stdio.h:577: error: previous declaration of ‘getline’ was here
20:02.14MikeC1./jove.h:474: warning: conflicting types for built-in function ‘malloc’
20:03.05brlcadah, jove
20:03.09brlcad--disable-jove ;)
20:03.17MikeC1k
20:03.47`Erikwhen're we gonna completely expunge jove?
20:04.08brlcadnot anytime soon, I expect
20:04.11`Erik:(
20:04.16`Erikwhy not?
20:04.19MikeC1vi should be good enough for everyone
20:05.14brlcad`Erik: there needs to be a backup editor for systems that don't have vi, emacs, or some other editor -- no presumption of any system editor
20:05.23brlcade.g. needed for windows
20:05.39brlcadfor some of the editing interfaces that dump you into an editor
20:06.06`Erikedit.com ?
20:08.03brlcadhmm, not sure what that would do in a brl-cad terminal .. not that I'd want to use it
20:08.17brlcadbut perhaps
20:08.37AchiestDragonmay be better haveing a config option where the user can specify one
20:09.54brlcadthe user can specify one
20:10.04brlcadEDITOR env var prevails
20:10.20brlcadthe issue is supporting configurations where there may not be a suitable system editor
20:10.52brlcador where there is an expectation of jove as the editor (as brl-cad has shipped jove for over a decade)
20:11.13*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
20:11.15brlcadphasing it out is probably in order, though
20:11.36brlcadperhaps simply disabling it's compilation by default, instead of the current "compile jove if not detected" behavior
20:12.50AchiestDragonwas going to sujest including a editor as there are a number of simple small gnu ones arround , but if it already has one then may as well keep it there  
20:13.09brlcadi'm not about to try and force an editor preference on someone, and if they're used to getting jove from brl-cad, so be it
20:13.35AchiestDragonyes there will be some that expect it to be there
20:13.36brlcadAchiestDragon: that is sort of the idea of including jove -- it's a simplified emacs
20:13.42PrezKennedyforce vi down everyone's throats :-)
20:13.46*** join/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-138-88-91-62.res.east.verizon.net)
20:13.51AchiestDragonhates vi
20:13.56MikeC1hey raz!
20:14.04brlcadPrezKennedy: kermit would slap you silly for that :)
20:14.17brlcadthough he'd probably suggest just providing 'ed' ;)
20:14.28PrezKennedyi learned vi first... and never really got into all that ctrl-shift-alting stuff in emacs
20:14.39MikeC1yea vi is nice
20:15.39`Erikvim, actually
20:15.43brlcadthose are butt cheeks right?
20:15.47`Erikand bash -o vi
20:16.04`Erikyes, sean, those are buttcheeks. I ass visual editor. Exactly.
20:16.05AchiestDragonvi is devised for people that like to have sheets of paper with the commands written on bluetacked to the front of the mahine  
20:16.14PrezKennedyi dont think kermit knows that i use vi...
20:16.29PrezKennedyi didnt mind xemacs too much
20:17.11AchiestDragonkate  is a nice editor
20:17.28razbrlcad: I am converting the example db m35.g to BOT but I receive a v4 database format only message. What do I need to do?
20:17.36`Erikjust like I fled to leenewx after my mfc experience, heh
20:17.38PrezKennedyim a noob... i use a java based editor now
20:17.39PrezKennedy:-P
20:18.04brlcadraz: v4 message?  .. where'd you get the m35.g from?
20:18.54razinstalled brlcad 7.6.1
20:19.00`ErikO.O
20:19.55brlcadhmm
20:20.06razbrlcad: m35.g can be found in the example dir
20:20.30brlcadraz: mged -c m35.g dbversion
20:22.09razbrlcad: it says 5
20:22.50brlcadso it's a v5 not a v4
20:23.02brlcadhow are you trying to convert it to bot?
20:23.16brlcadthe one installed will be read-only
20:24.31razbrlcad: poly-bot
20:25.45brlcadthat's for polysolid geometry
20:25.51brlcadyou don't have polysolids :)
20:26.38razwhat do I need to convert the m35.g to BOT
20:26.44brlcadthe 'facetize' command in mged will create BOTS
20:27.11brlcadBOTs for what purpose?
20:27.34razfor usage in ADRT
20:27.42brlcadahh, g-adrt
20:28.07brlcad(which basically does a facetize for you)
20:28.50brlcadit doesn't have a manpage -- blame Twingy ;)
20:28.57brlcador just ask him
20:29.03razcool. I will give it a shot
20:29.40brlcadraz: ah, though g-adrt only works on BOTs maybe.. hrm..
20:29.47brlcadyeah, just run 'facetize' in mged
20:29.50brlcadthen g-adrt
20:30.51Twingyyah
20:30.56Twingythe command outputs argument
20:45.17Twingymeh, I'll get around to one one of these days
20:45.51`Erikwendy should fund me to help you polish shit up
20:46.06Twingyhehe
20:46.19AchiestDragonis trying to tempt another dev here ...  
20:48.43AchiestDragonhe has cnc knolage also and  dont think he's working on any projects at present
20:49.18TwingyI think I'm gonna get a grizzley mill, but not cnc
20:49.23Twingygrizzly
20:50.47AchiestDragonwell mines comming on ok    http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/cnck4.jpg
20:51.06Twingy3-axis?
20:51.20AchiestDragonstill another couple of weeks off beeing ready
20:51.23AchiestDragonyes 3
20:51.38Twingycheapest 3-axis cnc I can find is $6k
20:52.23Twingyand I can get a 5-axis non-cnc for $3k
20:52.53AchiestDragonlost count of cost , but recon its still cost less than £1000 ( even though i scraped the first attempt and rebuilt it )
20:53.03archivistthere is a set of pcbs (PIC based) to cnc
20:53.45AchiestDragonthe controls on this are driven from a pc parallel port
20:54.04AchiestDragonim building a pc into the machine stand atm
20:56.32`Erikcnc is more work than it's worth unless you're doing bunches of pieces, imho
20:56.40AchiestDragonmy long term project is to build a robot to make and bring me coffee so decided i needed a cnc to make the parts
20:56.51`Erikplus it's theraputic driving a mill by hand :)
20:57.22AchiestDragonand yes machineing 240 track segments for the tracks is not fun
20:58.06AchiestDragonalthough have been enjoying beeing outside with the mig all week
20:59.21AchiestDragonhate stick , love gas , mig is like gas welding more than stick
20:59.53`Erikgas annoyed me, I probably used too light of sheet when doing it, but I kept blowing holes in it
21:00.17`Erik1/4 plate and a stick and I was happy
21:01.20archivist_took a while to fine see this lot for cnc bits http://www.jrkerr.com/boards.html
21:01.22`Erikanyways, it's been over a decade since I did any of that stuff *sigh* I'd probably explode or electrocute myself if I tried it again ;)
21:03.46`Erikmmmm, poisenous fumes....
21:03.56AchiestDragonyes know
21:05.05archivistI got a job as a welder 30+ years ago, can be good fun
21:05.31`Erikand chicks dig that welders tan? ;) *duck*
21:06.23AchiestDragoni took engineering at collage before taking microelectronics , so never done engineering as a job but make use of skills for hobby
21:06.39archivistA friend is a terrer for just shutting his eyes with a mig, he gets a tan!
21:07.03`Erikheh, 'cept even closing your eyes, you go blind after a while o.O
21:08.24archivistwell he's 70+ and doesnt take any notice when told (his eyesight is bad!)
21:10.58AchiestDragonhave proper mask and gloves here but know some that try with just sunglasses :( then wonder why thay have headache rest of day )
21:11.29archivistA dose of ark eye should cure them
21:12.09archivistCommon where I worked as we ran about 400 amps ally welding
21:15.14archivistThat machine is going to be lovely and noisy, will the neighbours mind
21:15.29AchiestDragonhopes not
21:17.20AchiestDragonhad no complaints , but woman next door is almost deaf , so doubt she would complain
21:25.54archivist_http://www.archivist.info/cnc/ Boxford cnc that was on my bench (now nextdoor in portacabin)
21:47.57pra5adcept when it autoindents and autocomments on paste
21:48.17`Erik:set paste
21:51.15`Erik(and :set nopaste when you're done...)
21:58.30AchiestDragonarchivist: kool
22:01.33*** join/#brlcad razz (n=raz@pool-138-88-91-62.res.east.verizon.net)
22:02.02MikeC1hey razz!
22:06.23*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Open Source!
22:25.14*** join/#brlcad cad856 (n=51d04ab0@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:25.34cad856Hi all
22:25.38brlcadhowdy
22:25.45cad856Hey!
22:25.50razhey!
22:26.11cad856It's the first time I found anybody
22:27.04cad856Are you there?
22:27.33cad856no
22:27.35cad856ok
22:27.38cad856bye all
22:28.06brlcadkids
22:28.15MikeC1A.D.D.
22:48.54`Erikheh
22:58.26Twingyhrm
23:18.32*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
23:21.48Twingyand remember, your seat also serves as a floatation device
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051011

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051011

02:01.21*** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650403pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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02:08.04`Erikheh, damn, everyone's showing up now o.O
02:08.45`Erik8lb 15oz boy? congrats, dude :)
02:43.16pra5adwoot
02:43.19pra5adcongrats!
05:17.52*** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650403pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
06:29.53pra5adill make love to you
06:29.57pra5adlike you want me to
06:31.16pra5adand i will not let go until you tell me to
06:31.38pra5adshit
06:31.43pra5adwindixie lives in 238 now
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17:24.20*** join/#brlcad Kurumin_BR_user (n=c8140b7a@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:25.28Kurumin_BR_userblrcadi cant  use the source version of blrcad 7.6.0
17:25.44Kurumin_BR_userwhere i can dowload teh binari version ?
17:28.58AchiestDragonhttp://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292
17:29.46Kurumin_BR_userthis version dont worked here
17:29.56Kurumin_BR_userDragon where you downloades the 7.6.1 version?
17:30.32AchiestDragonthe 7.6.1 is source only at the moment afaik
17:30.59AchiestDragonbut done it from cvs
17:31.33AchiestDragonhttp://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=105292
17:31.54AchiestDragondo you have a problem building from source ?
17:32.07Kurumin_BR_userok the version   what i donwloaded dont worked here its was that versinon what comes instaled but wont worked here
17:32.55AchiestDragonok ,, what opperating system  and cpu type
17:33.38Kurumin_BR_userlinux-kurumin 256ram duron 1.0gz
17:34.07Kurumin_BR_useri extracted i dont find the script for instalation
17:34.29Kurumin_BR_useri tri open one of fles on bin directori and dont worked too
17:35.09AchiestDragondid you extract them to the right folder
17:35.29AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
17:35.42Kurumin_BR_userth empeg dont work
17:35.42Kurumin_BR_useryes
17:36.07Kurumin_BR_userops
17:36.45AchiestDragonfrom /usr/brlcad/bin    in console  ./mged  
17:36.49Kurumin_BR_userno not is
17:37.03Kurumin_BR_useris on home/kurumin/usr paste
17:37.09Kurumin_BR_userhave a problen?
17:37.10AchiestDragonno
17:37.27AchiestDragonhas to be "root"/usr/brlcad
17:37.46AchiestDragonshould work them
17:37.58AchiestDragon*them/then
17:39.07Kurumin_BR_useri musth put hte blrcad in usr paste?
17:40.41AchiestDragonwell should be able to move them , or extract it again to the right location
17:41.58Kurumin_BR_userok done
17:42.32AchiestDragoncd to /usr/brlcad/bin    in console  and  ./mged  
17:43.16Kurumin_BR_userworked thanks ^^
17:43.22AchiestDragon:)
17:44.16Kurumin_BR_userwow now how i use this? :(
17:45.43AchiestDragondocumentation at http://brlcad.org/  should be a good place to start
18:07.30*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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20:45.57AchiestDragonhmmm ,, this took some doing to get it imported to a .g , and quite a while to render
20:46.49AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot4.png
20:47.03AchiestDragona 6.4Mb .g file also
20:48.32AchiestDragonbetter than the intermidiate STL file that was 77Mb
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23:43.20AchiestDragonhmmm , meshes ,, when i draw a mesh it looks smooth and flows curved accross its surface , but once i export it i from one package to another it looses its smothness and becomes formed of "flat" triangles
23:43.53AchiestDragonis there a way to get it to be smooth and curved again
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051012

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051012

00:31.43`Erikexport it to what?
00:33.34*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
00:36.44AchiestDragonwell for example , if i draw a sphear , and render it it shows as a sphear , in most packages (brlcad,3ds,blender for example ) but when i export it to another i end up with a sphear built of triangles
00:38.58AchiestDragonsame with meshes , if i draw a mesh with a nice sweeping curve , once i export it i endup with a mesh with a curve built of flat triangles
00:39.39AchiestDragonthay never render the same , not shure how best this problem could be overcome
00:42.56AchiestDragonexamples
00:44.34AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot5.png this is the original mesh  ( blender )
00:45.10AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot4.png  this is what it looks like after beeing converted in this case to brlcad
00:45.52AchiestDragonnow the same happens the other way also , just windering if it would be posible to restore the curve once imported
00:49.11AchiestDragonthink its a case of drawing splines or besiers rather than lines when redrawing the mesh
00:49.50AchiestDragonand the same path for surfaces when rendering
00:51.09AchiestDragonlike it would do if it generated the object its self ? if thats the way it does it
00:54.32AchiestDragonthought thay may of been a way to turn this back on in the object properties
00:54.35`Erikif you export to a format that has no sphere primitive, it has to be tesselated to triangles, and I don't believe any of the brlcad export formats get 'fake' normals attached, a la opengl
00:54.56`Erikso the only way to get a smooth looking sphere in one of those is to tessellate so far that no triangle is more than 1 pixel
00:57.04*** join/#brlcad reisio (n=reisio@gentoo/user/reisio)
01:21.21*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
01:31.53AchiestDragonwas pondeering if theres a way to smooth out the surfave in software once a bot has been loaded basicaly transform the bot (bunch of triangles) into a bob  bunch of besiers, but the maths is beyond me
01:38.06AchiestDragonshold be splines ,as besier curves dont actualy pas though all points on the path but close to  them
01:38.40AchiestDragonwill sleep on it , night
02:15.31pra5adTwingy,
02:15.43pra5adwhats your tsp page url?
02:23.20pra5adwhoa any of u looked into L funds?
02:29.12reisioL funds?
02:51.55PKMOBILEwhoa... i see myself
02:52.23reisioPKMOBILE: nice
02:52.53reisiooh, two cilents? :p
02:53.03pra5adthat's what the pk stands for
02:53.08PrezKennedyno im far more wasteful... two computers!
02:54.25reisioah, makes sense
02:55.23PrezKennedythe power of the remote desktop on windozer
02:55.33reisio:p
02:56.46pra5adwhich one of chuck's sons are u? the one who was porting warzone 2100?
03:00.26Twingywhat
03:00.55Twingywho summons me out of my cave
03:01.07pra5adprometheus
03:01.42pra5adtsp url
03:01.49pra5adpwwweease
03:02.40Twingyit's broke
03:02.49Twingythey changed their friggen page
03:02.55TwingyI'll have to update
03:03.10Twingymaybe I'll do that tonight
03:03.16Twingyyou're the 2nd person that's been bugging me about that
03:04.07pra5ad<shaft>L funds, m****r f****r, DO YOU KNOW IT?</shaft>
03:04.15pra5adi like the idea
03:05.23Twingythe L funds are for people that don't understand the stock market
03:06.19pra5adin 2 years??
03:06.36Twingysince jan '03
03:06.38pra5adwtf have u been doing? i funds?
03:06.53Twingy401k for 18 months, then rolled 401k into tsp
03:07.12Twingynow it's 50/50 S and I
03:07.20Twingyit's climbing fast
03:07.44Twingymy calculations tell me 2.5 million by 2037
03:08.03pra5adi have g:20, c:25, s:25, i:30
03:08.11Twingythen I will form the Twingariun Empire, LLC
03:08.16Twingyget rid of g
03:08.25Twingyyou're just throwing money away
03:08.34pra5adbut then i see the L fund progression
03:08.38pra5adyup looks like
03:08.39pra5adit
03:08.58pra5adi should move to g fund after about 10 yrs
03:08.59Twingybetter long term investment
03:09.06Twingyno
03:09.08Twingyafter about 30
03:09.11pra5adthen bump it up each year
03:09.14Twingyright before you retire
03:09.17pra5adrofl
03:09.21Twingywatch
03:09.25pra5adright after the 3rd crash?
03:09.34TwingyI'll have 2.5 million, and you'll have a 1.2 million, and we'll see who was right
03:09.45Twingymeh, it's only 1.3 million right?
03:09.50Twingy:)
03:09.53pra5adbastard
03:10.00pra5adu are corrupting me
03:10.04Twingygood
03:10.19pra5adi didnt go s and i because of the 100% risk
03:11.04Twingyyour money won't gain anything in g
03:11.13Twingy$10 now will be worth $10 then
03:11.40Twingylook at the history of the S&P 500
03:12.36pra5adi know about g
03:12.53pra5adgonna spread it to c,s,i
03:13.40Twingyfind me a 30 year period where it's lower return than G fixed
03:14.14pra5addude
03:14.16pra5adi get it about g
03:14.23pra5adtell me why it shouldnt goto c
03:16.22Twingyc is ok
03:16.38TwingyI had CSI for a while
03:16.55Twingybut SI are outperforming C
03:16.59pra5adi should go 70% I for the next 5 years
03:17.17pra5aduntil india's IT economy busts
03:17.23TwingyI is just europe
03:17.39pra5adno
03:17.49pra5adsays australasia, europe and far east
03:17.55Twingyso europe
03:17.58Twingy:)
03:18.08pra5adeurope isnt going anywhere
03:18.21pra5adits the other two that's prolly pushing the index
03:18.31Twingysure they are, plate techtonics indicate they'll move 153cm in the next 5 years
03:18.58Twingyno tsp for you!
03:19.22pra5adwelp, 15c, 35s, 60i
03:19.36Twingy50/50 S,I *grunt*
03:19.36pra5adim gonna retired with 50k while u retire with 0
03:19.49Twingyyou're so gonna lose :)
03:20.45Twingyespecially since social security will be non-existant by the time we retire
03:21.04Twingyso many people are gonna be fucked by that
03:30.58Twingyok
03:31.00Twingygimme an hour
03:31.07Twingyand I should have it working again
03:38.36Twingystupid fucking...
03:40.20pra5adtemper temper mon capitan
03:49.42Twingyah, that was clever
03:49.49TwingyI'll have this done quicker than estimated
03:50.53`Eriko.O
03:54.32*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
03:59.40pra5adargh i hate java
03:59.50pra5adwhy the hell cant i get a copy of a bufferedimage
04:00.02pra5adi just want a stupid copy
04:02.13Twingyhah
04:02.30Twingyhere pra5ad
04:02.31Twingyhttp://js.cx/tsp/output.png
04:02.36Twingythere's your tsp graph
04:03.16`Eriksomething seems... wrong...
04:03.30Twingyyes
04:03.36TwingyI forgot they added those fucktarded L funds
04:03.48pra5adsoo what u are saying is
04:03.53pra5adi should cash out on even days?
04:03.57Twingyyes
04:04.04Twingyand on primes
04:04.12pra5adshazbot
04:04.15Twingyrefresh
04:04.17`ErikI think you're only allowed to do that once before retirement
04:04.19Twingythat one is cooler
04:04.41Twingyokay, enough playing, I'll fix now
04:05.12pra5adwow so my g fund CAN beat ur s-i
04:05.25Twingyyeeees
04:05.30Twingyso you should move all your money to g fund
04:05.44pra5adlemme go do that right now
04:05.53Twingy<font 1>Twingy claims no responsibility for those actions</font>
04:06.11PrezKennedypra5ad, im the older one who runs an open source gaming website
04:06.38`Erikgaming is for queers
04:06.44pra5adah
04:06.52pra5adhow goes the wz2100 port?
04:07.00pra5adthat was a cool game
04:07.09PrezKennedyhaha i dont program... but there is a linux port
04:07.21`Eriknot coding is gay
04:07.23pra5adi 'got' it from the neighborhood 'store'
04:07.35pra5adcpl of yrs back
04:07.36PrezKennedycoding is the gayerest!
04:07.48pra5adloved the fact that u could customize units
04:07.55PrezKennedyyeah its a fun game
04:07.58`Erikgay like a FOX!
04:07.58pra5adu could win that game just by building walls
04:08.01pra5adin layers
04:08.03PrezKennedyweve been playing a lot of it lately
04:08.04pra5adright into the enemy
04:08.23PrezKennedynot as bad as the original C&C though
04:08.30pra5adwhoa whoa
04:08.36pra5addo NOT diss original c&c
04:08.44Twingyk
04:08.44PrezKennedyim not saying its bad
04:08.48Twingynow to tie date ranges back in
04:08.48`Erikc&c sucks sc's fat dong
04:08.56Twingybut d&d rocks
04:08.58PrezKennedyim saying that sandbags could hold back the AI
04:08.59pra5adsc is for koreans
04:09.07pra5ad`Erik is korean
04:09.12`Erikkekeke
04:09.25pra5adah yes sandbags
04:09.28Twingy<>_<>
04:09.38pra5adai tanks didnt realize they could run over em
04:09.48pra5adok so there was 1 problem with it
04:09.49pra5ad:)
04:09.55PrezKennedythey couldnt in the first one :-P
04:10.18pra5adgenerals is phat
04:10.25PrezKennedyyeah we play that too
04:10.28pra5ad3d added a lot of depth
04:10.48pra5adcept when the chinese scud-variant rains on u from across the map
04:10.53PrezKennedyyeah... it like added a whole new dimension to the game
04:10.55`Erikwas that a pun?
04:11.12pra5adof course
04:11.57pra5adthe red alert 2 iso views weren't all that great imo
04:12.19pra5adoh btw PrezKennedy , do u have openttd on ur site?
04:13.04PrezKennedytheyre on sourceforge so i dont worry about adding that to the collection
04:13.08PrezKennedyi do have a link to them though
04:13.17`ErikPrezKennedy: is it your broodwars cd I have in my dual boot box?
04:13.39PrezKennedyi dunno... i never missed it
04:14.03pra5adzing
04:14.07PrezKennedyive got the homeworld and warzone source though
04:14.13PrezKennedyhttp://osgaming.net/Downloads/Source/Strategy/
04:14.14pra5adZERG RUSH
04:14.17`Erikheh, kermit loaned me one *shrug*
04:14.25pra5adwhoa homeworld src was out?
04:14.25pra5adwhen
04:14.34pra5adi know freespace 2 came out cpl of years ago
04:14.36PrezKennedywe have so many it doesnt matter if we lost them all...
04:14.40`Erikuhm, like over a year ago?
04:14.41pra5adwish tribes 1 was released
04:14.55pra5adi uh.. have the half life 2 'src'
04:14.56`Erik'torque' gets you tribes related source fairly cheap
04:15.03pra5adNEIN
04:15.03PrezKennedyi have the allegiance source too
04:15.15pra5adnever mutter those words again in the context of tribes
04:15.19pra5adthat's what killed the game
04:15.28PrezKennedypfff tribes 2 was way better
04:15.31`Erikheh, torque?
04:15.40PrezKennedyonce they got to vengeance thats when it died
04:15.49pra5adit died with torque
04:15.52pra5adand that's final
04:15.54pra5ad!!
04:15.55TheLastSpartanpra5ad: Huh?
04:16.06pra5adyes?
04:16.09PrezKennedyi always enjoyed t2 much more
04:16.20PrezKennedyim decent in tribes though
04:16.23pra5adur dad should be ashamed of u
04:16.24`Erikhow did it die with torque?
04:16.41pra5adgame became sluggish with that engine
04:16.46`Eriko.O
04:17.02`ErikI thought "that engine" was what was used all along, it just was breeded like ut's
04:17.06pra5adhell no
04:17.13pra5adthe t1 engine was frikken great
04:17.18PrezKennedysluggish if your PC is old
04:17.23pra5adthe only things used from it was the net code
04:17.29pra5adwait, i could be wrong
04:17.38PrezKennedythe netcode for both tribes's was impeccable
04:17.39pra5adbut there's no correlation between the two engines
04:17.45PrezKennedyif only battlefield 2's was as good
04:17.50pra5adt2 netcode had issues
04:18.13pra5ador maybe it was the servers
04:18.13PrezKennedyby the final patch it was all ironed out
04:18.20PrezKennedyusually it was the server
04:18.22PrezKennedybeing overloaded
04:18.23pra5adyes, one patch too late
04:18.35pra5admark frohenmeyer wrote the netcode
04:18.39pra5adguy is a great coder
04:20.54pra5ad!asdf
04:20.56TheLastSpartanpra5ad: Tai-kong suo-yo duh shing-chiouh doh sai-jin wuh duh pee-go
04:21.14pra5ad!kungpow
04:21.15TheLastSpartanpra5ad: Wuo de ma!
04:21.23pra5ad@_@
04:21.50pra5ad!sprt(PI)
04:21.50TheLastSpartanpra5ad: I'm sorry, I was listening to Fatboy Slim.
04:21.53pra5ad!sqrt(PI)
04:21.55TheLastSpartanpra5ad: WTF mate?
04:22.26pra5ad!sqrt(22/7)
04:22.27TheLastSpartanpra5ad: Tai-kong suo-yo duh shing-chiouh doh sai-jin wuh duh pee-go
04:22.31pra5ad:(
04:23.52pra5adwhatchu doin there
04:23.53`Erikarizona? o.O
04:24.01Twingyhrm, just about done
04:24.08PrezKennedyhes migrating for winter
04:24.10PrezKennedy:-)
04:24.19pra5addid u take the train again?
04:24.24brlcadbeautiful sunny weather
04:24.29brlcadheh, no
04:24.40pra5advacation?
04:24.41`Erikheading to panama again?
04:24.53pra5adoh, he's using the secret trail
04:25.07brlcad`Erik: that'd be fun, but no this is business
04:25.33brlcadlee and I are acquiring a model
04:25.35`Erikwhizmer?
04:25.49brlcadbumblefuck, arizona
04:25.54`Erikheh
04:26.00`Erikwhizmer is nm?
04:26.13pra5adyes
04:26.15brlcadyeah
04:26.22brlcadwhite sands, new mex.
04:26.32pra5adwhere's sandia?
04:27.04pra5ad!where is sandian national lab?
04:27.22brlcadnew mexico
04:27.40pra5addo we win anything for guessing this place?
04:27.51brlcadthat's not where I'm at
04:28.07brlcadpra5ad: you win a twinkie
04:28.16PrezKennedyUnited States!!
04:28.17pra5adno a twingy?
04:28.17brlcadbut you have to share it with the mice
04:28.23pra5adnot*
04:31.33Twingyerik
04:31.36Twingycurl -# -d startdate="20030602" -d enddate="20030615" http://tsp.gov/rates/share-prices.html
04:31.41Twingysee anything wrong with that?
04:32.10Twingyor that
04:32.13Twingycurl -# -d startdate=20030601 -d enddate=20030631 http://tsp.gov/rates/share-prices.html
04:32.36`Erik<-- doesn't use curl o.O
04:34.33Twingygrumph
04:34.39Twingyit aint picking up the args
04:36.07PrezKennedydo you need ''''?
04:36.31Twingythe tsp people are onto me
04:36.50Twingyit's not a quotation issue
04:38.21PrezKennedytoo many -d?
04:39.43Twingynewp
04:40.02Twingytheir page is evil
04:41.34Twingyblasphemy
04:41.42TwingyI should call them up and bitch
04:42.12Twingyif their shit was open sauce I could fix0r
04:42.25pra5adrevenge of html 4
04:42.33Twingyhtml 71
04:42.47Twingy71 times more confusing than v1
04:43.05Twingy<form class="navigation" ACTION="/rates/share-prices.html" method="post">
04:43.05Twingy<table class="navigation" border="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4">
04:43.11Twingywhat the hell is class="navigation"
04:43.25`Erikshould you use -F instead?
04:46.42pra5adclass is for style sheets
04:47.24TwingyI dunno what -F gets me
04:47.37Twingythe first sentence sounds interesting
04:47.43Twingybut the examples don't grok
04:48.26`Eriksmells like a get/post schism
04:48.35`Erikto me
04:48.57`Erikphp has fu to get shit either way, iirc
04:49.37Twingy-G don't work :|
04:52.34*** part/#brlcad reisio (n=reisio@gentoo/user/reisio)
04:55.23Twingywelp
04:55.25Twingyno tsp
04:55.40TwingyI gots no ideas left
04:55.55Twingyworked on the old tsp page *shrug*
04:55.58Twingystill does
04:56.17Twingything is fubar'd with the new one
04:57.49MaloeranHave the POST variables for the form changed?
04:58.50TwingyStart Date:  
04:58.50Twingy<select size="1" name="startdate">
04:58.55TwingyEnd Date:
04:58.55Twingy<select size="1" name="enddate">
04:59.15Twingycurl -# -d startdate=20030601 -d enddate=20030631 http://tsp.gov/rates/share-prices.html
05:00.10MaloeranThe dates you picked aren't in the lists
05:00.16MaloeranMaybe that's the source of the problem
05:00.26Twingynope
05:00.31TwingyI tried dates in the list
05:00.50Twingyor thought I did *shrug*
05:00.53TwingyI'll try again
05:01.37Twingynewp
05:02.00MaloeranMystifying.
05:02.37Maloerantelnet time, if I can remember the http protocol enough
05:03.08Twingyheh
05:03.21TwingyI even tried faking the agent
05:05.07MaloeranHum... Their server stopped sending data half-way to my crafted request :)
05:05.15Twingyheh
05:05.29Twingydoesn't like those damn canadian connections
05:06.24pra5aderm
05:06.30pra5adwhats wrong with that curl command again?
05:06.36pra5adu weren't getting a response?
05:06.50Twingyit's not accepting startdate and enddate
05:06.51MaloeranYeah, Canada is full of hackers, terrorists and beavers
05:07.04pra5adsure it does
05:07.12pra5adi got a full html page back with rates
05:07.14Twingyyes
05:07.17Twingylook at the dates
05:07.25Twingyl
05:07.30pra5adah :)
05:11.43Twingymost confusing
05:11.58Twingymy browser does one thing
05:12.01Twingyand curl does another
05:12.03Twingywee
05:16.22pra5adwoot woot
05:16.23pra5adit works
05:16.30Twingyhrm?
05:16.39pra5adcurl -# -d startdate=20030601 -d enddate=20030631 -d submit=Retrieve\ Share\ Prices http://tsp.gov/rates/share-prices.html
05:16.54Twingyah
05:17.17Twingygj
05:17.53Twingywanna see it?
05:18.10pra5adyes
05:18.26Twingyk
05:18.54MaloeranAh of course, I forgot the submit name of the form... telnet attempts didn't work any better
05:19.10Twingyjs.cx/tsp
05:19.31TwingyI'll make it so more than 1 person can use it at once
05:19.46Twingyif multiple people try and view it, undefined results
05:19.54pra5adholy crap
05:19.57pra5adc is below f
05:19.58pra5adwtf
05:20.13Twingyno
05:20.16Twingythat's not right
05:20.24Twingylet me check labels
05:20.47pra5adu arent doing g either
05:20.57Twingy1 sec
05:22.39Twingyok, refresh
05:22.45Twingythat's right
05:23.07Twingylet me normalize
05:24.00pra5addamn
05:24.15Twingyok, refresh again
05:24.20Twingythat's much better
05:24.47Twingypay pal donations will be accepted
05:25.50pra5adu need to add some general stats
05:25.56Twingylike?
05:26.11pra5adtrends, rate deltas
05:26.42pra5adrisk analysis with neural nets
05:26.44pra5adu know
05:26.46pra5adeasy shit
05:27.13TwingyI think you get enough meaningful data from just looking at the graph
05:27.22Twingyadding deltas and other stats won't influence my decision
05:27.30Twingyas to what my distribution is
05:27.38Twingythat's the purpose of this graph
05:27.44Twingyto influence my decision
05:27.53Twingyand clearly my S&I decision holds
05:28.38pra5ad10c, 30s, 60i should catch up to 50s, 50i
05:28.53Twingymebe
05:29.13TwingyI don't see the utility in C
05:29.17pra5adthen again c seems to have flatlined
05:30.50TwingyI'll add flock()
05:31.12pra5adwhy not just recreate the image once per day?
05:31.19Twingythinking about it
05:31.36TwingyI s'poze that's more efficient
05:32.35pra5adhmm survey for brlcad devs
05:32.43Twingy?
05:32.52pra5adfrom some texas tech phd student
05:32.57pra5adon oss development
05:32.59pra5adcheck email
05:33.52Twingythat looks like work
05:34.00Twingyno free t-shirt!
05:34.18pra5adhtf does anyone get a phd for that
05:34.28Twingymakes you wonder how dixie got hers
05:34.31Twingy*duck*
05:34.44Twingylook at me, I have a phd!
05:34.49TwingyI am your superior!
05:34.51Twingymuhaha
05:35.02TwingyI should've not finished college in spite of what I think of education system
05:35.23Twingylast time I make that mistake
05:35.30Twingythen again
05:35.33TwingyI wouldn't own a house right now
05:35.36Twingyso it was a tradeoff
05:35.55pra5adyea, now u are broke again
05:35.55Twingywaste some brain cells, or get a garage to build rocket engines in
05:35.58pra5adbut broke w/ house
05:36.02Twingyactually
05:36.07Twingynov1 I'll have $10k in my account
05:36.19pra5adok, broke w/ house and milling machine
05:36.24Twingyno no
05:36.27Twingybuying a honda insight
05:36.34Twingy80mpg yo
05:36.34pra5adok, broke w/ house and honda insight
05:36.38Twingyyes
05:36.39Twingy:)
05:36.46Twingyuntil I get a raise in january
05:36.54pra5adso wait
05:36.56Twingythen, less broke
05:37.06pra5adaccomplishments dont get added until dec 31?
05:37.11TwingyI think so
05:37.17pra5adargh
05:37.17Twingythen locality is like jan 16
05:37.23Twingysuxors
05:37.23pra5adi want my M3 cheese
05:37.29Twingyheh
05:37.36Twingywhat if they take money from you? *duck*
05:37.54pra5adi have two great managers who wont
05:37.57Twingylesse "prasaaaa prasaaaa prsaaanagganna work here no more"
05:38.06Twingy:D
05:38.17pra5adhaha
05:38.26TwingyI'm gonna try and throw a life raft to erik tommorrow
05:38.30Twingywith pvt and voxel stuff
05:38.46TwingyI think it has a reasonable chance of success too
05:39.05pra5adwho's next on the pipe
05:39.13Twingyyou
05:39.31Twingytegtmeyer seems to be doin' his own groove
05:39.36pra5adaight
05:39.46pra5adbetter pass that ticket along asap =)
05:39.56Twingydunno what the next one is yet
05:40.01Twingybut I think if you finish that algorithm
05:40.06Twingythat might give me some leverage
05:43.05pra5adhmm
05:43.08pra5adwe'll see
05:46.03Twingyok
05:46.10Twingyit only updates when day changes
05:46.24Twingybut I have to factor in date ranges again
05:46.25Twingymeh
05:46.28TwingyI'll poke at it tommorrow
05:46.30Twingyit's bed time
06:25.00Twingynight
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13:36.56`Erik*yawn*
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15:18.16AchiestDragonok now having a look though the source , hmmm , lots of it ,, need a pointer or two i think
15:18.56AchiestDragonis the section that handles the drawing of BOTs a library function ???
15:21.30AchiestDragonand where can i find  .g file format info
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19:27.32AchiestDragondo i have to use c++ or tcl for code for brlcad , can i use python ?
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22:33.12Obscene_CNNAhhhh!! Main computer moved and online. I can download spam and get on the IRC. I'm 95% operational now.
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23:53.51pra5adargh
23:54.01pra5adj allard of m$/xbox fame looks like chip
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051013

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051013

01:18.39*** join/#brlcad Tegan (n=lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)
02:03.37Tegangoodnight
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13:16.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: getItemTree() implementation now saves los, material name, and use count in the ItemTree leaf nodes.
14:39.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: _SYS_OPEN is an anchestor of FOPEN_MAX too
14:43.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/bigE.c: unused variables deleted
14:48.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_fuse.c:
14:48.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: initialize pl in nmg_snurb_is_planar (look at pl[3]!)
14:48.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: unused variable deleted
14:50.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: machine.h requires stdio.h to be included first
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15:13.05CorandumHow do I remove brlcad from my computer?
15:13.35AchiestDragondelete it
15:13.56CorandumI tried >rmdir /usr/brlcad/  but it denies me everytime
15:14.07AchiestDragonneed to be root
15:14.14Corandumah, ok
15:23.02Corandumwhat does "Directory not empty mean"
15:23.13Corandumerrr, "directory not empty" mean
15:23.28AchiestDragontheres files in the dir that need deleteing
15:24.10Corandumi don't have a lot of knowledge with the terminal, i am trying to delete the directory, and that is the answer it gives when i try to
15:24.45AchiestDragonmaybe better logging in as root in kde , and removing it from the file manager from there , of if you are running kde the superuser file manager will do that
15:24.57Corandumwhat is kde?
15:25.23AchiestDragonwhat you running  linux , or other
15:25.29Corandumi have osx
15:25.43AchiestDragonk
15:25.46AchiestDragonnot shure
15:26.10Corandumok, thanks
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20:23.39`Erikheh
20:40.52Teganoh?
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21:17.13Teganit works!
21:38.44`Erikit does?
22:07.57Teganyes, it does
22:08.31`Erikwhat is "it"?
22:08.53TeganBRL-CAD, specifically mged
22:08.58`Erikah, cool
22:09.17`Erik<-- has a very very vague understanding of how to use mged... o.O
22:09.30`Erikwhich is disturbing, since I am (or was) one of the developers ;) *duck*
22:10.16Tegan<-- has no cad experience, but the tutorial is pretty clear so far
22:11.01AchiestDragonwatig = waiting
22:11.20Teganarcher?
22:12.09AchiestDragondiferent gui interface and command system for brlcad like mged
22:15.27AchiestDragonbut its not in cvs yet
22:15.39AchiestDragonexept for windows version
22:15.44Teganah
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22:37.57brlcadit's in CVS, just sitting on a branch that doesn't compile yet ;)
22:38.13brlcadhowdy Tegan :)
22:38.24Teganhey brlcad :)
22:44.41AchiestDragonhi brlcad
22:45.59brlcadhowdy
22:46.05AchiestDragonwell been working on a BOT surface normalizer , this is a tough one ,
22:47.47brlcadnormalizer?  you mean a simplification tool?
22:48.56AchiestDragonso far working on a bot structure analizer that trys to determing the structure of the object , ie if its a curved mesh , a enclosed object (like a sphear or torus) or a tube , or something more complex like say a face mesh
22:49.24AchiestDragonbasicaly so i can convert a BOT to a BOS (bunch of splines )
22:49.43brlcadahh
22:49.52brlcadthat would be SWEET!
22:50.36AchiestDragonsimple objects should work ok , but its complex objects like say a mesh of a hand that is the pain
22:52.24AchiestDragonthe fingers would have individual spline vectors
22:54.07brlcadfor what it's worth, since you're working on that .. there is bspline primitive support that was added to brl-cad over a decade ago but never made it into mged
22:54.59AchiestDragonnoticed that , maths is not my strong point but logic is
22:55.03brlcadyou can create bsplines through the libwdb interface (write database library, i.e. the library used to create geometry programmaticly)
22:55.43brlcadthere are a couple demo applications that use the libwdb interface and create some bspline objects that can be rendered, like the utah teapot
22:57.42AchiestDragoni canot seem to find chapter 10 of the docs , its mentioned in the contents but dose not appear to exist anyware
22:58.11brlcadhmm?  which document?
22:59.14AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
22:59.52AchiestDragon10 File Formats
23:01.01brlcadahh
23:01.37brlcadthose docs are somewhat out of date once work started on putting the pdf's together in the new documentation
23:01.55AchiestDragonk
23:03.57brlcadhmm.. i'm not sure that section was actually ever written .. looks like it was stubbed out to be written
23:04.09brlcadthere are manpages for most of the file formats
23:04.18AchiestDragonk :)
23:04.57brlcad$ ls /usr/brlcad/man/man5/
23:04.58brlcadbw.5    cmap.5  pix.5   plot3.5 png.5   rle.5
23:07.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_fuse.c: type consistency initialization
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23:16.10pra5adblarg
23:16.30pra5adupgrade to breezy badger borked x :(
23:19.53AchiestDragongrrr try installing 1 small x based man reader and get 48mb of dependancys to update
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23:46.34AchiestDragoncanot get man to read the man pages for brlcad
23:46.39AchiestDragon:(
23:46.50Teganeven I can do that ;)
23:47.04Teganman --path
23:47.15Teganis it in your MANPATH?
23:47.33AchiestDragonman -M /usr/brlcad bw
23:48.34AchiestDragonk managed it
23:48.41Tegancool
23:49.22TwingyTegan == tegtmeyer?
23:49.30Tegannope
23:49.32Twingyk
23:50.09Tegan<-- at least not this Tegan
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051014

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051014

00:06.52AchiestDragonhmm was after the  DB file format  not output graphics formats
00:33.46Twingyhttp://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/13/citizen.wookiee.ap/index.html
00:35.26pra5adchewie's gonna work for arl
00:35.42Twingyyep
00:36.03Twingydoesn't he look like bob ruschley?
00:36.10pra5adwho
00:36.20Twingyhrm, you don't know him
00:36.39pra5addamn this monitor.. misaligned at 75hz, fine at 60
00:36.51Twingyso crank it up to 120hz
00:37.16pra5adive never run anything above 60
00:37.28Twingygah
00:37.35Twingy60 sends me into a seisure
00:37.36pra5adwhat exactly is the benefit of high refresh
00:38.08Twingythe flourescent lights run at 60hz AC
00:38.13Twingyyou get *beats*
00:38.21Twingyit's nauseating
00:38.30TwingyI can't use a monitor at 60hz.
00:40.56pra5adhow do u add new refresh rates
00:41.05Twingyin what?
00:41.07TwingyX?
00:41.08pra5adyea
00:41.20TwingyXF86Config, VertRef
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00:41.51TwingyVertRefresh  72.0 - 85.0
00:41.59TwingySection "Monitor"
00:43.14AchiestDragonif you have it installed ,sax2, gives you configure options for the monitor and allows you to test before commiting
00:43.22pra5adhmm i have xorg
00:43.34pra5admy xorg.conf doesnt have a vertrefresh field under monitor
00:49.01AchiestDragon:)
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00:52.51pra5adwell alignment problem is fixed at 75hz at least
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01:10.04brlcadAchiestDragon: 'groffer' and to a lesser extent 'less' if set up properly will format up manpages
01:10.49brlcadAchiestDragon: I wouldn't suggest reading the .g file format directly, use librt's API -- that said, if you really want to know, it's on the website
01:12.17brlcadTwingy: hmm.. seisures eh?  ... good to know... mauhaha
01:17.07Twingybah
02:07.12pra5adis there any way to find out the fsb speed on linux?
02:07.31brlcadcat /proc/cpuinfo have it?
02:12.53pra5adnop
02:31.06Twingydmesg
02:53.03pra5ad[2]prasad@duriel:/home/prasad :. dmesg | grep fsb
02:53.03pra5ad<PROTECTED>
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13:33.31d_rossbergAchiestDragon: are you looking for smooth bot's?
13:33.43AchiestDragonyes
13:34.10d_rossbergdid you had a look at "mk_bot_w_normals"?
13:35.31AchiestDragonwhat im trying to do is  take a bot that has been imported (that has lost the normals) and find a way to add them again
13:36.58AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
13:37.59d_rossbergyou could take a weighted avarege of the normals of the surrounding surfaces to determin the normals in the vertices
13:38.39d_rossbergmk_bot_w_normals is used by mk_bot with an empty normal array
13:39.05AchiestDragonyes
13:40.07d_rossbergit looks like every face has 3 normals assigned (one for each vertex?)
13:40.07AchiestDragonthe code is ther to create the bot with normals , its the code to convert a bot without normals to one with that seems to be missing
13:42.00AchiestDragonbut fine if brlcad is beeing used to generate the bot in the first place as you can make it with normals , but when you have imported the bot from another package it loses them
13:42.13d_rossbergthats true, but it should be easy to hack g-dxf: use mk_bot_w_normals with a weighted avarege of the normals of the surrounding surfaces for each vertex
13:42.51d_rossbergBTW i've never used mk_bot_w_normals direktly, it's only an idea
13:43.44AchiestDragonwell trying to write a program that takes a db containing the bot and makeing another db containing a bot with normals
13:44.01d_rossbergi'ts also possible brl-cad crashes if the normals array isn't 0
13:45.33AchiestDragonbut the way i am trying to do it , it should be posible to create the output in the form of a db of splines
13:46.09AchiestDragonand maybe allow a hack to use besiers instead of splins
13:51.15d_rossbergi'm sceptical about splines: it looks very difficult
13:51.48AchiestDragonmk_bspline( struct rt_wdb *wdbp, const char *name, struct face_g_snurb **surfs )
13:52.24AchiestDragonin nurb.c
13:54.49AchiestDragonwell for simple objects like sphears torus , and grid based objects , its easy , problem starts when you get a bot of say a hand , finding direction vectors for arround the fingers
13:58.04d_rossbergthats why i recommend a weighted avarege: you could use the distance of the surfaces center from the vertex as weight
13:58.53AchiestDragonim working on the principal that for each line in the triangle the 2 end points connect to 2 other points that are the end points of the triangle next to it  (as a continuation of the line )
13:58.54d_rossberghow much spline surfaces do you get? as many as triangles are in the bot?
14:00.32AchiestDragonabout 1 spline for every triangle ,
14:02.07AchiestDragonwith 2 where one side of the triangle is a open edge
14:07.59d_rossbergit sounds still difficult. it's much more than simly saying whats the normal in a vertex, you need a reasonamle 3D curve
14:08.48AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
14:10.49AchiestDragonon say  bot that was a sphere , find a path ( where a line travels arround the object ) use all  points of that line in the creation of the spline for it , find next path ...
14:11.38AchiestDragonfirst one  relative axis then one at 90deg to it  
14:13.17AchiestDragonbasicaly convert the cordinates that the bot draws into a group of single points then play join the dots with splines
14:16.38AchiestDragontheres a lot of code needed to analize the structrure of the bot so it can determine what paths the splines would need to take take
14:18.44AchiestDragonanyway no garantee that im going to be able to get it working , but going to be worth a try
14:18.53d_rossbergdo you determine these paths onle once fot the bot or for every triangle?
14:24.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_c2.c: probable a typing error: it should be vve, not uve
14:25.35AchiestDragonwhat i intend doing is converting the bot to a array of points , then trying to determin from the bot the paths a spline would be best taking (though the points of intersections )
14:27.23AchiestDragonso take a grid mesh (100*100) try to determing a path from one side to the other , and use the points recovered from the bot to find what next direction allong that path the spline should take
14:30.01AchiestDragonand again for the path next to it ... ,then again for the lot at 90deg to it to form a spline grid ,
14:30.33d_rossberggrid is easy, how about a tetrahedron?
14:30.45AchiestDragonassuming theres no pertusions that would need extra processing
14:32.53AchiestDragona enclosed object ( ie no open side ) would start from one point and find longest path arround , then procide to do the path to one side of it .. then the other ... and again repeate at 90 deg
14:34.41d_rossbergfor a grid it looks good
14:37.07AchiestDragonseems to be ok on spheare and toruses , etc also , , its random shaped bots that have extrusions that give more points on some paths and have sub paths to be found
14:41.41AchiestDragonfor example  http://whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot4.png  
14:42.52AchiestDragonthats one bot  
14:45.11AchiestDragonshould look more like  http://whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot5.png  (given diferent pose)
14:45.32d_rossbergBTW: found a function rt_smooth_bot, usable from mged via "bot_smooth" command (untested)
14:47.57AchiestDragonopps
14:48.04d_rossbergi get a time out for your web site, but i think it's the alien
14:48.09AchiestDragonfor example  http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot4.png  
14:48.19AchiestDragonshould look more like  http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot5.png  (given diferent pose)
14:48.30AchiestDragonmissed the www bit
14:48.38AchiestDragonyes
14:49.17brlcadbeautiful
14:49.46brlcadyeah, bot_smooth will add vertex normals to a bot
14:49.52d_rossbergbot_smooth doesn't work in the actual windows version
14:50.26brlcadthat's odd.. shouldn't be anything platform-specific
14:50.46brlcadd_rossberg: what does it say/do?
14:52.44brlcadsimple test: make sph sph
14:52.46brlcadfacetize sph.bot sph
14:52.50brlcadB sph.bot
14:52.52brlcadrt -F/dev/Xl
14:53.01brlcadshould see a hard edges
14:53.34brlcadbot_smooth sph.smooth.bot sph.bot
14:53.36brlcadB sph.smooth
14:53.39brlcadrt -F/dev/Xl
14:53.45brlcadshould see smooth edges
14:54.33brlcad(er, that last should have been B sph.smooth.bot ..)
14:55.42*** part/#brlcad `Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
14:55.44d_rossbergok, my error, typed smooth_bot
14:55.57AchiestDragonjust trying it  with the alien model
14:56.20brlcadprobably will take a "little" bit longer with that many triangles in the alien model :)
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15:01.47AchiestDragonwell seems to be processing it , well its using a lot fo cpu time anyway
15:01.48d_rossbergthe interrior of sph.smooth.bot looks good, but not the edge (when the ray doesn't hit any triangle)
15:07.59brlcadyeah, it's not going to fake a hit for the sake of smoothing, which leaves discontinuities on the surface near the edges
15:08.39brlcadresolved somewhat by increasing the tesselation tolerance or the curvature tolerance when facetizing
15:12.32d_rossbergi've to go
15:56.11AchiestDragonby little bit longer is that days or hours longer ?
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19:52.45AchiestDragonhmm think its not working
19:59.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: facetize -t
19:59.54brlcadAchiestDragon: can you post the .g somewhere, I'll take a look at it
20:00.10AchiestDragonk
20:00.25brlcadfacetizing an already facetized object will take a very long time (you shouldn't do that)
20:00.37brlcadbut smoothing the bot shouldn't take long at all
20:00.47brlcadI meant a few seconds, maybe minutes
20:01.01brlcadthe sphere is instantaneous
20:02.45AchiestDragonits a 6.9mb file , just uploading it atm
20:05.51AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/aq1.g    
20:06.56AchiestDragonlet me know when you downloaded it ok i can remove it from my web space then
20:08.19``Eriksean, can radmind upgrade x.3 to x.4?
20:11.13brlcad``Erik: yes
20:11.36``Erikthnx
20:12.11brlcadAchiestDragon: getting it now.. 30% .. 40% ..
20:13.07brlcadAchiestDragon: got it
20:13.27``Erik(is tesselating tesselated data slow because it tries to tesselate bots? if so, shouldn't it just consider bots to be tesselated and just hand them over?)
20:13.54AchiestDragonk if anyone elce is downloading it speek now before i remove it
20:14.18brlcadyay, flight was cancelled out of yuma ....
20:14.51``Erikheh, take the train back? :D
20:15.50brlcadbe back in a bit, they're kicking me out
20:15.55``Erikhasta
22:47.55*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
22:47.55*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
23:19.37pra5adyipes
23:19.41pra5adJPL layoffs
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051015

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051015

00:07.17``Erikyut oh
00:07.18``Eriko.O
00:21.19AchiestDragonhooo look noodles  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4335160.stm
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03:16.13Twingyhrm
03:16.37TwingyI found solenoid for $77
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07:10.34pra5adhas anyone used clock() ?
07:10.38pra5addefined in time.h
07:11.10pra5adi seem to be getting 0 everytime
07:11.21pra5adcorrection: i am*
07:23.45pra5addammit
07:24.00pra5adgrrr it's broken
07:31.45MaloeranHas the program been running for long enough to return more than zero?
07:51.36pra5adsleep(5) ?
07:52.20pra5adand i have 10^7 sqrts running in a loop
07:52.48pra5adstart: 209888617136098
07:52.48pra5adstop: 209897595875140
07:52.48pra5adElapsed : 8978739042 ticksRDTSC
07:52.48pra5adstart: 0
07:52.48pra5adstop: 0
07:52.49pra5adElapsed : 0 ticksSDL
07:53.08pra5ad(SDL uses clocks() iirc)
07:53.15pra5ad-s
07:53.41pra5adsystem is ubuntu 5.10 , gcc 4.0.2
08:42.45MaloeranA sleep() won't increase the time spent in the process itself, your square roots should...
11:28.10*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-93-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:28.20clock_hi
11:28.25clock_how is it possible to make a hex?
11:28.37clock_i. e. hex bolt head
13:47.06AchiestDragon2 arb6's and a arb8  
13:51.00clock_or one arbn ;-)
13:51.12clock_actually I am now writing a program you'll call like
13:51.27clock_./bolt M10x50 and it will generate you an ASCII database of M10x50 bolt.
13:51.50clock_Because there aren't even the most basic engineering primitives in BRL-CAD like bolts, nuts, washers etc.
13:52.24AchiestDragonkool
13:53.17clock_Would it be possible to embed it into newer versions of BRL-CAD?
13:53.24clock_I write in standard C
13:53.57clock_like one would call command bolt, nut or washer etc.
13:55.38AchiestDragonyou need to speek to brlcad
13:56.11AchiestDragonbut think it could get included , it needs some more options like that
14:27.00pra5adMaloeran, that's what i dont get. it's still 0.
15:14.04clock_Would it possible to make tab autocompletion into brlcad?
15:14.18clock_like I would type nut<tab> and it would fill in nut1.s?
17:57.59*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-93-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:22.27clock_BRL-CAD is simply incredible.
21:22.34clock_Such a power in the combined GUI-CLI
21:22.47clock_plus scriptable and programmable
21:23.02clock_plus can be called from makefile for automatic data transformations
21:23.11clock_I think it's the best 3D CAD in the world...
21:23.14clock_And free software
21:23.21clock_The best things in life are always for free ;-)
22:18.33*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-93-74.dclient.hispeed.ch)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051016

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051016

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19:56.37pra5adThe physicist and the engineer are in a hot-air balloon. Soon, they find themselves lost in a canyon somewhere. They yell out for help: "Helllloooooo! Where are we?"
19:56.37pra5ad15 minutes later, they hear an echoing voice: "Helllloooooo! You're in a hot-air balloon!!"
19:56.37pra5adThe physicist says, "That must have been a mathematician."
19:56.37pra5adThe engineer asks, "Why do you say that?"
19:56.37pra5adThe physicist replied: "The answer was absolutely correct, and it was utterly useless."
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051017

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051017

00:11.06*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
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03:19.19dorkmeisternarf!
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03:20.39learnerheh
03:21.18fennwas playing with the web=based irc client... not bad for web based chat
03:22.01learneryeah, it's not too shabby and it gets past firewalls since the connection is a live proxy
03:23.15learnerstill prefer folks to get "a real irc client" for various reasons, but it's a good first step for those that no nothing of irc
05:01.26pra5adu back?
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08:59.20*** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@243.3.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch)
09:19.25*** topic/#brlcad by clock__ -> ttp://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
09:19.34*** topic/#brlcad by clock__ -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
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14:49.18brlcadpra5ad: yeah, though I'm staying at home today -- decompression catch-up
15:07.03clock__brlcad: decompression catchup? What's that?
15:07.45clock__brlcad: I have written a program for generation of hex head metric bolts, nuts, washers, and inner hex bolts.
15:07.48clock__http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/hex.c
15:08.19brlcadclock__: I heard/read .. sounds very useful ;)
15:08.24clock__brlcad: like you say ./allenbolt M8x15 and it makes allenbolt_M8x15.asc which then you import into brlcad
15:08.34clock__brlcad: I already used it once and it's very quick to operate with.
15:08.49clock__And nuts and washers are already mirrored so if you combine with bolt they don't overlap :)
15:09.49brlcadexcellent :)
15:09.57brlcadany reason you make a .asc instead of a .g?
15:10.07clock__brlcad: because it's easy to make
15:10.17clock__I don't know how to make g I didn't read anything.
15:10.26clock__I just took example asc and make the program generate the same.
15:10.55brlcadgot it
15:11.07clock__brlcad: If I make plate.c and use hole.s inside with various matrics
15:11.10clock__matrices
15:11.26clock__and then try to select, it always greens up only one instance and never the other three
15:11.33clock__So I can edit only one matrix
15:12.11clock__brlcad: why doesn't mged have --version flag? How can I determine the version?
15:12.38clock__brlcad: should I upgrade?
15:12.50clock__to 7.6.2?
15:13.02brlcadnah, no need to upgrade
15:13.04brlcadyet
15:13.25clock__is it a bug or whatever?
15:14.15brlcadno, it's not if I understand you correctly
15:14.53clock__and how do I green the other instances? Those are instances which cannot be never greened, but I want to edit their matrix.
15:15.34brlcadyou can get the version in various ways -- there are no "dash dash" mged options, hence no --version though there are commands and other tools to get the version
15:15.55brlcadi usually just run 'rt' with no arguments, it will output all the versions of libraries being used
15:16.03clock__even help-> about doesn't exist. No clue
15:16.20brlcadthe version is in the window titlebar
15:16.23brlcadin mged
15:16.33clock__I got 7.2.6
15:17.08clock__http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/hex.c
15:17.08brlcadhmm, that is a bit old, but still what you're doing isn't a bug I believe
15:17.19clock__sorry should be http://ronja.twibright.com/3d
15:17.30brlcadhow are you grouping?
15:17.38clock__The last one is what I did recently and has the bolts and nuts and washers from the program
15:17.53clock__like I want to make a plate with 4 holes
15:18.00clock__then I make plate.s as rpp
15:18.03clock__hole.s as rcc
15:18.10clock__and then red plate.c and type
15:18.14clock__u plate.s
15:18.23clock__- hole.s <matrix>
15:18.28clock__- hole.s <different matrix>
15:18.29clock__...
15:18.30clock__etc.
15:18.38clock__is this incorrect?
15:18.51brlcadhmm
15:19.31clock__sometimes mged stops displaying the 3 remaining hole.s so I have to do "B" again.
15:19.34clock__Sometimes it segfaults
15:19.35brlcadin theory, I believe so :)
15:19.44clock__How should it be correct?
15:19.49brlcadthe problem may be 'red'
15:19.54clock__why?
15:19.59clock__what should I type instead of red?
15:20.24brlcadI think I need try exactly what you're doing to see what's going on
15:20.33clock__But it fucks up only sometimes
15:20.51clock__But the grerening works never, that's replicable :)
15:21.20brlcadyou mean after doing the red, only one is highlighted?
15:21.28clock__grerening -> greening
15:21.59clock__no after doing red none is highlighted
15:22.08clock__but if I want to "select matrix" or how it's called in the edit menu
15:22.22clock__I can select only one hole. The three other never green up in the selection.
15:24.20*** join/#brlcad LaptopDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
15:24.35brlcadthat's probably due to how mged applies matrices seems a bit akward at first -- you select above the combination point you want to apply the matrix at
15:25.19clock__I don't understand
15:25.50clock__what does "you select above the combination point you  want to apply the matrix at" mean?
15:26.15brlcaddoes par_welded_we.g have an example combination?
15:26.26brlcadthat sort of shows what you were trying?
15:26.56clock__yes plate.c
15:27.48clock__but it's not displayed in par_welded_we.g It's displayed in par_welded.g
15:28.09brlcadthere is a plate.c in par_welded_we.g
15:28.31clock__yes the 3 files are just symlink
15:28.40brlcadwith four plate_h1.s objects
15:28.51clock__this is used to rended differen cutaways and completion stage views.
15:28.55clock__yes those are the holes
15:42.40brlcadwhen you red plate.c and type in matrices after hole.s .. what is an example matrix you're using?
15:46.47clock__1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
15:47.47clock__or I insert just one hole, don't type matrix, the edit the hole, shift it around using tra and rot, then accept, then red plate.c, copy the lines in vi and adjust the numbers - that's usually faster
15:47.56clock__the -> then
15:48.21brlcadk
15:49.10clock__Anyway when it segfaulted I posted a bugreport including the .g file and full backtrace from gdb.
15:49.24brlcadyeah, I saw that -- thanks
15:49.29clock__So if there is a bug you should be probably able to spot it
15:49.36clock__is the bug in 7.6.2 anymore?
15:49.45brlcadthere's clearly a bug as it should never segfault ;)
15:50.06brlcadbut I imagine the bug is just related to an invalidated display list
15:50.22brlcadperhaps related to why you have to B after a red
15:53.56brlcadit has to do with using the same primitive name multiple times during matrix selection .. it uses the path to the solid which is identical for all four holes
15:56.16brlcadso, red is actually working correctly since you're editing the values directly -- but the gui is not since it's looking up the path and always editing the first match (which is why it always edits just one hole (the first hole))
16:01.11*** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-68-251-145-76.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
16:06.39clock__so how do I edit the 2.-4. instance's matrix?
16:07.30brlcadclock__: well, I would consider the Edit->Matrix Selection behavior a bug
16:07.35*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
16:07.37brlcadbut there is a simple workaround
16:09.08brlcadthe "usual" manner someone would do what you're trying is to make a combination for each hole that instances your template rcc
16:09.39brlcadthe matrix is applied to the combinations (which are named uniquely), the combinations are used in plate.c instead of prims directly
16:10.09clock__so 4 combinations, each combination holding just a single hole?
16:10.50brlcadright
16:11.02brlcadat least until the bug is squashed :)
16:11.26brlcadalternatively, you could just copy the hole
16:11.48clock__if the gui cannot edit the 3 remaining holes, my vi can edit them :)
16:12.35brlcadclock__: fyi, I'm looking to present a brief overview of your work with brl-cad at next month's users group meeting
16:12.51brlcadif that's alright with you
16:13.41clock__it's OK
16:14.39brlcadgreat
16:15.15brlcadwould have been even better if you could present, but that would be quite a hike to make it to the symposium :)
16:21.31clock__where is it?
16:21.43brlcadit's in Maryland
16:22.13brlcadabout a half-hour northeast of baltimore
16:22.33clock__what symposium is it?
16:22.51brlcadevery couple years we hold a BRL-CAD symposium
16:23.30``Erikshoulda came in, sean, free lunch :)
16:23.43brlcadfolks can present what they're working on, tutorials and overviews are usually given, there's open discussion with the community on what people are intersted in
16:23.48clock__I don't think it's necessary for me to travel there to stutter there myself
16:23.52brlcad``Erik: free? :)
16:24.03brlcadclock__: heeh
16:24.28``Erikyup, bill made taco goop, bought an ice cream cake, etc
16:24.38``Erikwas pretty good
16:25.22``Erikkermit got his promotion
16:25.29brlcadexcellent!
16:25.37brlcadheh, taco "goop"
16:25.40``Erikso it was a celebration thing
16:25.55brlcadcool
16:26.21``Erikthey might have some left in their fridge tomorrow
17:51.55Twingy_sean
17:52.11Twingy_can I steal the office on Nov 8 1300 1700 for a meeting?
18:02.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged's matrix selection does not modify the correct matrix
18:06.31clock__brlcad: is it the bug I reported here?
18:07.35brlcadclock__: yes
18:07.39brlcadTwingy_: possibly
18:07.47Twingy_k
18:08.08Twingy_I'll need to know kinda soonish...
18:08.41Twingy_unless you don't mind being in the office during the meeting
18:08.48clock__brlcad: thanks
18:09.07brlcadTwingy_: 'morrow
18:09.11Twingy_k
18:22.20Twingy_dooooughnuts *drool*
18:22.48Twingy_white sugar powder *slobber*
18:43.20*** join/#brlcad thumPer1052 (n=edward@host-66-205-107-201.classicnet.net)
18:44.57thumPer1052Good afternoon
18:46.31brlcadhowdy
18:51.42Twingy_sean
18:51.51Twingy_chuck can't su on the branch server
18:54.41thumPer1052I need a right parabolic cylinder with a variable height vector.  Any sugestions?
18:55.48Twingy_I can't priv msg
18:56.03Twingy_I suggest you call him
18:57.20brlcadthumPer1052: what do you mean by variable?
18:58.11thumPer1052It needs to change along the length of the rpc.  In a linear fasion
19:00.13thumPer1052The height needs to 'taper' but the width [of the rpc] remains constant.
19:08.07fennthen it is no longer a right parallel cylinder?
19:08.23fenner parabolic
19:08.29thumPer1052no, I suppose not...
19:08.45thumPer1052but that's what I need.
19:09.06fenni forget, can you do lofts in brlcad?
19:09.15thumPer1052I don't think so
19:10.07thumPer1052lofts require brep don't they?
19:10.39fenni really haven't used brlcad that much, sorry
19:10.49fenni dont know
19:10.55thumPer1052yeah, me either. lol
19:10.57thumPer1052thanks
19:11.18fenni'm just hanging out in here to remind myself that i need to learn how to use brlcad some day :)
19:15.02fennwish these manuals were in html instead of pdf
19:20.30``Erikwhat's wrong with pdf?
19:21.02fennit takes forever and the implementation of it is buggy in kde 3.x
19:21.17``Erikuse gnomegv? ;)
19:21.21fennwah
19:21.25fennwhat's wrong with html?
19:21.26Twingy_xpdf works just fine for me
19:21.33thumPer1052me too
19:21.33Twingy_pdf2ps, use ghostscript
19:21.43fenni am using ghostscript
19:21.49Twingy_then use xpdf
19:21.57fennthat would be too easy :)
19:22.00thumPer1052lol
19:22.23thumPer1052At least brlcad HAS docs
19:22.32Twingy_pdf2ps $_ && ps2ascii $_
19:22.35Twingy_*shrug*
19:23.11fennlooks like there actually is a pdf2html
19:23.32``Erikthere you go, quit being a kde use and learn to master your machine ;) *duck*
19:23.58Twingy_or just quit using kde
19:24.03fennoh, right
19:24.07``Eriktwingy, did kermie get it sorted out?
19:24.13Twingy_blackbox, metacity, twm...
19:24.19Twingy_dunno
19:24.22fennactually i am using icewm
19:24.35fennbut i use konqueror quite a lot
19:24.41``Erikice looks too win32 to me
19:24.45thumPer1052fluxbox
19:24.57``Erik<-- sawfish, metacity, quartz
19:25.10Twingy_<-- blackbox, blackbox, and umm blackbox
19:25.24fenni dont really mind how it looks, but rather how it works
19:25.34Twingy_that's why I use blackbox :)
19:25.44fenni'll try that some day
19:25.48Twingy_which blackbox
19:25.51fennyeah
19:26.28``Eriksawfish was neat because absolutely everything could be 'configured' in insane ways using 'rep' (a lisp/scheme descendant language)
19:27.13thumPer1052I used sawfish 'way back'
19:27.29``Erikthat and the nanoscopic footprint
19:27.54thumPer1052small footprint is most of what matters
19:28.13thumPer1052icewm is also good in that respect
19:28.14``Erikonly when you run out of memory
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19:28.39thumPer1052Linux: doing more with less
19:28.49fennfootprint == screen usage?
19:28.51``Erik<-- ran sawfish, gnome, galeon, etc on a box with 48m ram and barely ever touched swap *shrug* :)
19:28.58``Erikfenn: memory used
19:28.58thumPer1052memory
19:29.55*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
19:29.56Twingy_hrm, blackbox uses 4.9MB
19:30.11thumPer1052I forgot all about galeon
19:31.12fenni cant imagine how a window manager would use more than like 50k
19:31.29fennit just has to remember where all the windows are!
19:31.47thumPer1052uh...
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19:53.14``ErikI like that, you should write an mwm compatible window manager, fenn
19:59.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modify importFg4Sections to take a delta for translation purposes. Add the following methods: erotate, escale, etranslate, launchDisplayMenuBegin and launchDisplayMenuEnd.
20:01.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Add erotate, escale and etranslate commands.
20:05.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: Scaling of bot is not necessary here (it's already in base units)
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20:34.05thumPer1052Twingy: is that blackbox number virtual, or resident?
20:36.05thumPer1052blackbox memory footprint
20:36.15Twingy_that's what I'm currently using
20:36.20Twingy_oh
20:36.27Twingy_it's um
20:36.31Twingy_resident
20:36.47Twingy_27035 justin    96    0  6532K  4900K select 1   0:11  0.00%  0.00% blackbox
20:37.03thumPer1052huh... I'm using fluxbox, and it's using over 7MB...
20:37.55Twingy_maybe it's the alpha blended winderz
20:38.08thumPer1052yah, maybe
20:41.14thumPer1052ahhh, misread. fluxbox res is 4.5 :) I feel better lol
20:44.58``Erikguys measuring vsize or res-size?
20:45.18thumPer1052both
20:46.18thumPer1052fluxbox is 4.5MB res 7MB virtual
20:46.24``Erikvsize 182.7m, res 8.6m
20:46.39``Erik(quartz-wm)
20:46.45thumPer1052wow
20:47.01thumPer1052hope it looks good
20:47.05``Erik(it's got 2g of ram to chew through, lots of alpha blending, lots of windows...)
20:47.13``Erikdude, it's a mac, of course it looks good
20:47.17thumPer1052lol
20:47.39thumPer1052I have to use my 256M CAREFULLY
20:48.24``Erikjust turn off the stupid bits and it's all snappy
20:48.50thumPer1052My first computer had a 40MB hard drive
20:49.01``Erikoh fuck I feel old
20:49.04thumPer1052snappy green graphics
20:49.29``Erikmy first had cassette tapes, we bought 120 minute ones so we could store more
20:49.37``Erikthen I upgraded to a commodore 64
20:49.38``Erik:(
20:50.08thumPer1052I'm glad tapes are gone
20:50.26``Erik<-- thinking about getting dat4 for offline storage
20:50.41thumPer1052not really cost effective anymore
20:50.49``Erika couple bucks for 40g?
20:51.12thumPer1052the tapes are that cheap now?
20:52.11``Eriklooks like prices run between 6 and 10 bucks for a 20/40gb
20:52.24``Erik4mm dds4's
20:52.30thumPer1052huh
20:53.10thumPer1052Most of my 'important stuff' fits onto a dvd
20:53.25``Erikyou must have a puny porn collection
20:53.26``ErikI mean, uh
20:53.29``Eriksource code repository
20:53.33``Erik:)
20:53.42thumPer1052love'em and leave'em
20:53.47fennsomeone's giving away a pile of sun ultras and some SGI Indy workstations.. but you have to take the whole pile - makes me feel old even
20:54.06``Erikhock 'em on ebay?
20:54.31fennsurely there's some gold or diamonds inside those things
20:54.42thumPer1052what whould you do with them
20:57.57fennwell the monitors are pretty nice
20:58.20``Erikdude, sell 'em on ebay
20:58.28``Erik"vintage unix computers"
20:58.29``Eriko.O
20:58.47thumPer1052sell'em by the pallet
20:58.58thumPer1052people think they're getting something for nothing
20:59.33brlcad``Erik: you only feel it because you are :)
20:59.42thumPer1052ouch
20:59.44fenngoing rate is like $10 on ebay
20:59.50``Erikheh, you're only what, a year younger than me, sean?
21:01.06thumPer1052once impotence sets in, you'll give anything for "one more year" :)
21:04.07brlcadheh
21:06.24thumPer1052or so I'm told...
21:09.00thumPer1052brlcad: Have you figured out my modeling problem?  Or do I have to break out my crayons?
21:10.32brlcadmmm.. crayons
21:12.32thumPer1052:(
21:13.03thumPer1052What good are crayons without a Big Chief Pad?
21:13.18brlcadthumPer1052: sorry, I missed your question -- got disconnected right after "14:57:19:     brlcad: thumPer1052: what do you mean by variable?"
21:14.17Twingy_s/long/log
21:14.18thumPer1052the rpc needs to taper.
21:14.38thumPer1052a linear taper
21:14.51thumPer1052while the width remains constant
21:15.50thumPer1052does that make sense?
21:17.10brlcadnot sure.. how are you rpc?
21:17.21brlcader, how are you _orienting_ the rpc
21:17.33thumPer1052flat side down
21:17.42brlcadrectangular side down
21:17.51thumPer1052right
21:17.53brlcadok
21:18.09thumPer1052one parabolic end should be smaller than the other
21:18.20brlcadahh
21:18.36thumPer1052but the sides [of the rectangle] are parralell
21:18.39brlcadheh, you mean a "non-right" parabolic cylinder ;)
21:18.46thumPer1052:)
21:19.33brlcadthe best way to do that is to probably use a truncated general cone instead
21:19.42brlcadand subtract half
21:20.01thumPer1052yeah, I saw that.
21:20.17thumPer1052but it looks like that would only be an approximation
21:20.45thumPer1052should have paid more attention in class.
21:21.06brlcadthe outline will still be a parabolic curve
21:21.50brlcadnow had you said a hyperbolic cylinder.. you'd have a more tough time
21:22.40thumPer1052damn... I think you're right...
21:24.47thumPer1052It'll take a bit of math to get the tgc and the cut right, but I think that's how its done.
21:25.36brlcadonly mildly of relevance: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
21:26.56thumPer1052thanks. Great cheat sheet.
21:27.17brlcadit's missing a few of the experimental types, but a good start
21:27.20``ErikCHEATER!
21:27.20``Erik:D
21:27.28brlcadoh, and here's an old one :)  http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/papers/99cgc/sld010.htm
21:27.57brlcadnot sure all of those latter ones are still supported
21:28.13``Erikis 'dsp' like a heightmap variant?
21:28.31brlcadit's a horribly named heightmap
21:28.38brlcad"displacement map"
21:28.42Twingy_it's a heightmap, 16bit with no set domain
21:28.57brlcadit replaced the "hf" height field primitive
21:29.27``Erik<-- opengler, apt to think in triangles o.O
21:29.34thumPer1052Yes, dsp IS a horrible name
21:29.44Twingy_didn't lee pick that name?
21:29.44thumPer1052digital signal processor
21:29.52brlcadyep
21:29.52``Erik*snrk*
21:31.14thumPer1052why not dmap? or hmap? or ???
21:31.26Twingy_you should ask lee
21:32.03Twingy_hrm, almost time for me to quietly escape
21:32.09``Erikvia the window?
21:32.18Twingy_I'm on the first floor :D
21:32.30``Erikso you read the training handbook o.O
21:32.33thumPer1052I usually just flush myself down the toilet
21:32.46``Erikauto-swirly?
21:32.55thumPer1052:)
21:33.29Twingy_``Erik #fubar
21:33.38Twingy_http://js.cx/~justin/images/majesty_low_2.jpg
21:34.22Twingy_sure, whatever
21:35.46thumPer1052Did you settle on a gui toolkit?
21:40.07``Erikacorn primitives
21:40.15Twingy_monkey head primitive
21:40.25``Eriktwingy doesn't remember the acorn :)
21:54.28brlcadthumPer1052: some of the tools are not named via any sort of extensive reasoning :)
21:54.59thumPer1052AS long as they work :)
21:55.28brlcadmuch/most of the original primitivess are at least founded in mathematics
21:58.32thumPer1052Does anyone know if g-dfx is broken?
21:59.25thumPer1052er dxf
21:59.58brlcadit's not broken
22:00.31brlcadbut there may be some unsupported object types -- dxf includes some aspects that don't translate to solid modling (e.g. think stipple lines)
22:01.12thumPer1052ahh.  I tried to use g-dxf to import an object into Varkon... Varkon's importer must be broken.
22:02.26brlcadcould very well be -- seen similar issues in blender and other packages for isolated cases
22:02.45thumPer1052I need to find a method of generating dimensioned drawings from my brlcad objects.
22:02.50brlcadnow that said.. g-dxf tesselates the geometry into triangles -- and _that_ does have some limitations and known bugs
22:03.05brlcadbut those should be reported in the output as warnings/errors during conversion
22:03.27brlcadahh.. yes, dimensions
22:03.41brlcadthat's something that's been desired for a while now
22:04.04brlcadrtedge gives you something close to what most usually want via a render -- but sans the dimensions
22:04.29thumPer1052Yes, but the output is not a vector file
22:04.36brlcadit would seem simple enough a modification for "someone" to add a modification to rtedge to add computed edge dimensions for objects requested
22:05.01brlcador to have it output vector even -- it has everything it needs almost before it goes to pix
22:05.43thumPer1052we (the users) could then use qcad or something to create dimensioned drawings
22:07.40thumPer1052Ideally, one could dimension the models within brlcad
22:08.37thumPer1052then you could just read the dimension off the model as needed.
22:08.47thumPer1052thereby bypassing the need for shop drawings
22:14.40brlcadthat you could
22:15.06thumPer1052I know... easier said than coded.
22:15.16brlcadthe dimensions are there, they're known -- it's just a matter of providing the user interface that lets the modeler actually denote what they want to show up in the drawing
22:17.06thumPer1052I expect that would provide a HUGE boost to the userbase.
22:20.00thumPer1052If you could place dimensions, annotations, etc into the model, and then have these items only show up at certain viewing angles...
22:20.11thumPer1052unprecitented.
22:20.38thumPer1052er unprecidented
22:20.41brlcadit's precedented :)  unigraphics, pro/E, autocad all do that ;)
22:21.14brlcadyou can add annotations now, but they won't show up in the graphics window
22:21.35brlcadshowing them is effectively the same work to show the dimensions
22:21.53PKMOBILEargh exam tonight
22:21.55brlcadyou need a good means to select, place, orient
22:23.03thumPer1052autocad has dimensions that only show at specific angles?
22:23.10thumPer1052within model space?
22:23.49brlcadat specific angles, perhaps not
22:23.54brlcadbut I believe so
22:24.12brlcadunigraphics does, though
22:24.54thumPer1052maybe if you asked rel nice... they'd donate some code.
22:25.08thumPer1052lol
22:27.30brlcadhah
22:28.33brlcadwriting the code is actually not the hard part .. finding the time or extra developers is ;)
22:41.23``Erikheh, indeed
23:48.18Twingyflaming poo balls
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051018

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051018

00:27.12*** join/#brlcad BigIslandVegan (n=greeting@portcullis.uhh.hawaii.edu)
00:44.24Twingyhawaii
00:45.04brlcadmmm.. offsite support visits
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03:45.22polyspinQuiet here tonight
03:45.30Twingyindeed
04:50.14thumPer1052nite nite
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07:11.41*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
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11:01.39dhpetersonhi there ... anyone about to answer a quick qn?
11:02.39dhpetersoni am wondering whether there is any integration between brlcad and a FEM/FEA tool
11:02.42dhpetersonopen source or otherwise
11:03.02dhpetersoni am completely new to brlcad
11:11.57clock__what is FEM/FEA?
11:12.05clock__finite element analysis?
11:12.22clock__like calculate bending etc.?
11:18.50dhpetersonhi
11:18.54dhpetersonyes, finite element
11:19.11dhpetersonstress calculation specifically, but bending or displacement also would be interesting
11:19.16dhpeterson:)
11:23.02clock__what free software tools are for this?
11:24.18dhpetersonthere are a few FEA solvers
11:24.24dhpetersonnone are great
11:24.29dhpetersonz88 looks interesting
11:24.46dhpetersonyou can integrate it with DXF (autocad) from what I understand
11:24.50dhpetersonand brl-cad exports DXF
11:24.54dhpetersonagain, from what I understand
11:25.28dhpetersonFElt is another free FEM solver
11:25.33dhpetersonbut it may only do 2D, not sure
11:25.38dhpetersonz88 is 3D
11:25.58dhpetersonI think it would be interesting to take the z88 code (GPL) and inegrate it into brlcad
11:26.05dhpetersonor at least build a bridge
11:26.22dhpetersonbut i am talking thru my ^#% as I have not got the experience with BRL to know
11:26.45dhpeterson...
11:26.52dhpetersoni must apologise, i have to go now
11:26.57dhpetersoni will try to check back later
11:27.06dhpetersonor i can be reached on dhpeterson@gmail.com if you wish to follow up
11:27.16dhpetersongtg
11:40.25fennyeesh z88 is 22MBG
11:40.28fenner 22 MB
11:42.45fenn"kompakt und schnell" mein ass
12:48.16learnerfea integration is something being worked on, but there currently exists no such direct solving inside of brl-cad
12:48.36learner~x de en kompakt und schnell
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19:03.40``Erik*yawn*
20:38.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (7 files): add stub README files: README.AIX README.BSD README.Linux README.Solaris README.Windows
20:54.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.WIN32: oops, named it README.Windows instead
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23:34.10AchiestDragonhmm , is there a bug in the raytracer or does it not do shadows ?
23:34.14AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot6.png
23:52.01``Eriko.O
23:52.08``Erikwhich lighting model did you use?
23:52.44AchiestDragontryed it with the full and the photonmap renders same with both
23:53.00AchiestDragonthat screenshot is a full render
23:53.26AchiestDragonjust wating for another photonmap one to compleate then will take another screenshot
23:54.50``ErikI know I've seen m35.g throw shadows
23:55.14``Erikbut I'm not really a brlcad user, I just kinda code on it o.O mebbe you need to define an explicit light?
23:55.22AchiestDragonis wondering if its because the object is a single bot
23:56.06``Erikhrmmm
23:56.18``Eriktry putting a box or sphere on a plane ?
23:58.21AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot7.png
23:58.36AchiestDragonphoton maped one , still now shadows
23:59.56AchiestDragonmore concerned with shadows cast from top tracks and sprocket wheels to the lower tracks , as i have not put nay ground plane into the model
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051019

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051019

00:02.01AchiestDragonthink it may be dew to it beeing a bot ,
00:03.10``Erik*shrug* I d'no... a few quick experiments and you'd know A) if bots self-shadow and B) if bots shadow at all
00:03.17``Erikooh, wait, moss world throws loads of shadows
00:03.30``ErikI've a feeling you have to model an explicit light source
00:03.34``Erikand I've a feeling that you have not done so
00:03.41AchiestDragonmaybe
00:03.52AchiestDragonstill learning how to use it
00:05.06``Erikyou're way ahead of me *shrug* :)
00:05.17``Erik<-- chucks "the prisoner" in the dvd player
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00:13.10AchiestDragonwell is lost on how to apply a lighting model to it
00:28.07``Erik?
01:07.40brlcadAchiestDragon: heh, it does shadows :)  
01:08.12AchiestDragonok so how do i get it to do them
01:08.32brlcadphotonmapping is a bit complicated to set up "correctly" .. those parameters have to be set up just correctly as do the lights and the model
01:08.51AchiestDragonk
01:08.51brlcadthe default lighting model is better for general use (and considerably faster)
01:08.59brlcadthe lights will determine the lights
01:09.11brlcadif you don't create lights, default lights are created
01:09.48AchiestDragonso if using the default lights should it show shadows ?
01:10.21brlcadyes, but they will be very much dependant upon your model and the direction you're viewing from
01:10.39brlcadiirc, there is one overhead and two over each shoulder
01:11.06brlcadso in your view, you're not really going to see a shadow from that orientation on that geometry
01:11.31brlcadit's easy enough to create your own lights, I'd suggest you do that if you want a particular lighting
01:12.01brlcadto do that, create some primitive (e.g. a sphere), put it in a region, apply the light shader to it
01:12.13brlcadplace it where you want in the scene
01:14.54AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot8.png last one
01:15.31AchiestDragonseem to have changed view and done all arround it now
01:17.07AchiestDragonbut one over each sholder and one above should give 3 faint shadows , if mapping them correctly
01:18.00brlcadi could be mistaken about the default light orientation
01:18.04brlcadbut they do follow you
01:18.47brlcadhmm.. now that I think about it -- the default lights might not cast shadow rays
01:19.26brlcadvery likely given your renderings and where I believe the lights are
01:19.30AchiestDragonfrom last screenshot i would say the light is to the left of the shot , if the default doesnt cast shadows then that would explain it
01:20.35brlcadthe defaults are oriented and set with an intensity to light up as much as possible without overlighting
01:20.45brlcadstill, probably not casting shadows
01:26.19pra5adhehe doxygen is coooool
01:27.05TwingyI think header files are cooler *shrug*
01:28.22pra5adwhatever you say buuuuuddy
01:28.24pra5ad=)
01:32.20brlcadAchiestDragon: bingo
01:32.24brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:33.06AchiestDragon:)
01:34.27AchiestDragonso ether include a lighting model or edit the code and recompille it with it and i should get shadows yes
01:35.15brlcadeither include your own lights or edit the code, yes ;)
01:37.06brlcadpretty simple to make a light.. "make sph sph", "r light.r u sph", "mater light.r light" .. position and resize sph and/or light.r where you want the light to be
01:42.45AchiestDragonwill have a go later , its almost 3am here , time for bed for me
01:45.23brlcadcya
01:57.23AchiestDragonlaters ,, btw would help if i knew how to move and resize it   :)
01:57.37AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot9.png  lol
02:00.20brlcadheh
02:00.41brlcadso you haven't gotten through the mged tutorials yet :)
02:01.49brlcadon the Edit menu, either primitive edit and select sph or matrix edit and select light.r
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02:02.32brlcadthe Edit menu will change showing you the edit operations you can perform, including scale, translate, etc
02:02.47brlcador once in edit mode, just issue the 'sca' and 'tra' commands
02:04.37brlcadthe combination editor has a shader panel that will let you set the light parameters, like making it invisible, turning on the shadows, etc
02:45.50pra5adTwingy, i need a cpl of screencaps of isst in action
02:45.57pra5adfor a M3 CCB meeting
02:45.59pra5ad:)
02:46.47Twingyheh
02:47.00Twingynot unless you give me more details :)
02:47.49pra5addenis has issues with the 'large' grid sizes in the results viewer
02:48.01Twingymeaning the resolution is too small?
02:48.06pra5adyes
02:48.19pra5adand some grid elems overlap target and empty space
02:48.37pra5adthe solution they've been throwing around is increasing the resolution
02:48.37Twingymade the grid smaller
02:48.45Twingyand show him a 1cm x 1cm picture :)
02:48.49Twingy*make
02:48.55pra5adand hey.. who has the per pixel resolution
02:49.00pra5adso gimme gimme
02:49.09pra5adso i can join a new project
02:49.12Twingywell, I'm not actively working on isst anymore
02:49.19TwingyI can take some captures of the new app
02:49.22pra5adfine, screen caps
02:49.28pra5adhrm
02:49.37pra5adyea sure
02:49.47Twingyk
02:49.47pra5adi need some highlighted components
02:49.49pra5adtho
02:49.57Twingyyah, I can do that
02:50.00pra5adfaux colors
02:50.01pra5adk
02:50.02pra5adcool
02:50.05Twingythis new app has all of the old isst capabilities
02:52.15TwingyI need to tie one or two things back in
02:52.27Twingywhen is this meeting
02:52.46pra5adur window of opportunity is from now until i'm force to reply to that conversation
02:52.56Twingyah
02:53.00pra5adwhich may be tomorrow
02:53.02Twingyyou'll have it tommorrow.
02:53.25pra5adCCB meeting on FUDGE tomorrow at 1300
02:53.33pra5admajor players 'should' be there
02:53.45pra5adhas denis seen isst?
02:53.49pra5ador any variant?
02:53.56pra5adhas jodi or marianne?
02:53.58TwingyI dunno if I'd call dennis a major player
02:54.06Twingyyes, they've all seen it
02:54.13pra5adhrmph
02:54.27pra5adthen this may turn out to be pointless
02:54.30pra5ad:(
02:54.38TwingyI've demoed this to vp at northrop and undersecretary of defence
02:54.44Twingymaybe
02:54.48Twingydefense
02:55.44Twingybug me tommorrow afternoonish
02:56.01TwingyI can spend the morning tieing some stuff back in
02:56.37pra5adheh
02:56.46pra5ad100x100x5 takes nearly 5 minutes to load
02:57.07pra5adme neither
02:57.49pra5adto get a single iteration, RV has to drill down the full heirarchy
02:57.57TwingyI can generate 100x100x5 50 times in a second with my slow tracer :(
02:58.46pra5adit's hibernate
02:59.04pra5adgenerates a zillion sql stmts per object
02:59.10``Erikerm
02:59.11``Erikccb?
02:59.14``ErikI got it as mrb
02:59.28``Erikand a brat at 9
02:59.37brlcad9 should be cool
02:59.42Twingyyou're a brat whore
02:59.43Twingywhat brat?
02:59.47pra5adoops, the meeting is mrb. cell size issue was ccb
02:59.56``Erikummmmm
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03:00.00``Erikd'no if I can say?
03:00.06brlcadI wouldn't
03:00.08TwingyI'll read email
03:00.22pra5ad'shooting pies through brick walls'
03:00.23``Erikit seems semi-interesting
03:00.29brlcadfrozen turkies
03:00.35``Erikfrozen chickens
03:00.38``Erikthrough windshields
03:00.50pra5adbrainiacs > mythbusters
03:00.53Twingyafter 10/6 ?
03:01.01``Erikwhu?
03:01.09Twingythe email was sent after 10/6 ?
03:01.20pra5addont think so
03:01.31``Eriknot sure
03:01.42pra5adhmm dont have it on my calender..
03:01.57Twingy*shrug* I woulda jotted it down if I thought it was interesting enough
03:02.01``Erikshow up before 9, I'll try to do the same and show you what I have down
03:02.06TwingyI probly deleted it soon as I Got it
03:02.23``Erikbah, you probably saw 'brat' and hit delete
03:02.30Twingyprobly
03:02.48``Erikwill you be in before 9?
03:02.58Twingypossibly
03:03.05Twingywon't be very coherent though
03:03.14Twingyso not much point in going to the meeting
03:03.34``Erik'k, my records say that this is an applied subject, not bs like 'how to use project to suck goat nuts' that beth did heh
03:03.54Twingyk
03:04.19``Erik(it's one that starts with that big ugly question right at the beginning, if that helps)
03:05.13``Erikanywho, I'm gonna go to both the brat and the ft meeting :)
03:05.14Twingyearly retirement briefing? :)
03:05.33``Erik25 yrs?
03:05.56TwingyI'm doing the super early retirement
03:06.02Twingyafter I blow myself up :)
03:06.17Twingyho hum
03:06.20TwingyI'm tired
03:06.20``ErikI'd ask if you favor burial or cremation
03:06.27``Erikbut I'm going to guess that you'll effect that yourself.
03:06.33Twingyyah
03:07.04Twingytime to transport my collection of organized neurons upstairs to regenerate
03:08.51``Erikhasta
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12:17.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Mods to prevent the selectcmd from being called recursively. Mods to limit the number of redraws from the "remove" method
12:23.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Mged.tcl Db.tcl): Add the following methods: erotate, escale and etranslate
12:28.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Add dbupgrade
12:29.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/dbupgrade/dbupgrade.vcproj: Initial check-in
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19:13.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: HUGE is not portably available, provide alternatives (fixes sf bug 1328013)
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22:35.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: added special thanks to Sander Pronk of TNO-PML for his work on v4 platform issues
23:21.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: initialize pointers to NULL
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051020

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051020

01:49.25*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@Toronto-ppp221485.sympatico.ca)
01:49.35louipchow's it going?
01:59.34*** join/#brlcad thumPer1052 (n=edward@host-66-205-107-201.classicnet.net)
02:01.06thumPer1052good evening gentlemen
02:03.11thumPer1052When I use 'shaded_mode 2' brl-cad renders invisible objects.
02:03.35thumPer1052That is objects which have been subtracted.
02:03.55thumPer1052Is this the state of the software?
02:04.30louipcneat
02:04.51thumPer1052well...
02:05.00louipcI'm not sure...
02:05.08thumPer1052neat that it does ANY opengl
02:05.31thumPer1052is that what yours is doing?
02:06.05louipcshaded_mode 2 is a rendering option?
02:06.15thumPer1052yes,
02:06.21louipcthat never happened to me when rendering
02:06.53thumPer1052turn on Z clipping Z buffer and lighting
02:07.02thumPer1052then enter 'shaded_mode 2
02:07.07louipcI'm just downloading the new version now - I have the first open source version
02:07.09thumPer1052and redraw something
02:07.14thumPer1052ahh
02:07.51louipcwhat is that mode supposed to do?
02:08.34thumPer1052instead of wireframe, you get solid rendered opengl
02:08.59louipcah ok
02:09.17thumPer1052dosen't seem to work very well though
02:09.31thumPer1052I think they're just starting on the opengl stuff
02:09.54louipcit worked ok for me before - but I have an old version
02:10.42thumPer1052brl-cad itself works great
02:10.49thumPer1052this feature is new
02:11.02thumPer1052or at least hasen't been developed very far
02:12.13louipcooh you mean they added a solid view of the model for editing?
02:12.24thumPer1052yeah
02:12.39louipcnice
02:12.50louipcyeah I never used that
02:13.14thumPer1052it's not very useful yet, but I'm sure they'll sor tit out
02:13.22thumPer1052er sort it out lol
02:13.56louipclol
02:15.50brlcadthumPer1052: it's the state of shaded_mode 2, which is very much just an experimental test
02:16.13thumPer1052ok, thanks.  Thats what I suspected.
02:16.13brlcadthe wireframe is actually opengl too
02:16.53brlcadarcher does it "correctly" as does the new modeler
02:17.14thumPer1052Thought maybe it was a bug that was being corrected.
02:17.22thumPer1052archer?
02:17.23brlcadit is a bug :)
02:17.58brlcadand might get corrected .. not clear whether it's worth the effort or to make sure it's okay in the next generation interface
02:18.22thumPer1052the new modeler is in cvs?
02:18.25brlcadarcher is an intermediate visualizer/modeler based on mged
02:18.34brlcadyes, it's in a branch though
02:18.34louipcnew ui?
02:18.56brlcadit has a different new ui, yes
02:19.10brlcadboth archer and the next generation modeler
02:19.14thumPer1052I'm learning to like mged
02:19.26brlcaddon't worry, your learning isn't going to waste :0
02:19.28louipcsounds exciting
02:19.29brlcader :)
02:20.04brlcadeverything you do in mged should be accessible in the new interface, it'll just have a better user interface
02:20.14thumPer1052kewl
02:21.35thumPer1052what about annotations?
02:21.52thumPer1052er visible ones
02:26.49brlcadthat's already being worked on :)
02:27.34brlcadthe ability to store plot files in the .g file too (sort of related)
02:31.45thumPer1052I was looking at the source, and it is well commented, and pretty clean.
02:31.51thumPer1052but there's a LOT of it!
02:32.19brlcadpatches welcome!
02:33.34thumPer1052How do you come to terms with a project this big?
02:33.56brlcadfocus on some small part of it
02:34.35brlcadit's rather modular and contained, relatively very well organized given it's size
02:35.15brlcadyou learn more and more as you go along
02:35.37thumPer1052I guess start by understanding the database?
02:37.12brlcaddepends really
02:37.15brlcadwhat do you want?
02:37.20brlcadwhat do you want to do?
02:37.30brlcadwhat do you want to have/make/create? :)
02:37.35thumPer1052not sure yet...
02:37.39brlcad:)
02:38.34brlcadstep 1 would be to read the very short "volume I" overview of BRL-CAD
02:38.53thumPer1052k
02:39.12brlcadif you're interested in code, the next step would be to read the HACKING file in the source
02:39.32brlcadfrom there, it really depends on what you want
02:40.51thumPer1052As a user, what I'd like to see is the ability to output a 2d vector file.  Like we discussed the other day.
02:41.02brlcad"Volume I" is simply: http://brlcad.org/overview.html
02:44.22brlcadthe TODO and BUGS files list some good places to start too ;-)
02:44.33thumPer1052thanks
02:45.00brlcad2D vector file.. hmm
02:45.42thumPer1052like a vector option to rtedge
02:45.51brlcadif you know your C, I'd jump right in to rtedge's source code, modify it to output vectors instead of pixels
02:46.47brlcadshould be some extra book keeping, a few extra rays to calculate dimensions of requested objects
02:47.22thumPer1052most of the heavy lifting has probably already been done.
02:47.57thumPer1052May have to do some line/curve fitting
02:48.56brlcadright, mostly it has (setting up the view projection, firing rays to interrogate geometry, storing hit results, computing rays hitting an edge)
02:50.23brlcadyou have a 2D grid and knowledge of exactly what object is at every grid cell -- so computing lines/curves using the edge/pixel values is a direct neighbor search
02:51.30brlcadfind all neighbors that are of the sme current cell edge type and you have points in 2D that could be fit to a polynomial/line/curve/whatever
02:52.08thumPer1052hmmm
02:52.24thumPer1052might be more straight forward than I thought
02:54.42brlcadgetting a vector out of rtedge really shouldn't be hard at all, getting dimensions might be slightly harder since you need to know how/where to orient/display the dimension data onto the vector image
02:56.34pra5adwhoa dejavu
02:56.35pra5ad=)
02:56.51brlcadyeah, and you might get that pra5ad guy to help you out ;)
02:57.07pra5adu know i woulda coded something up, but lee shot it down
02:57.15pra5adsomething about already knowing topology..
02:58.03brlcadthe topology isn't known until you evaluate the boolean
02:58.22brlcadand evaluate the implicits
02:58.35brlcadneither of which is done for free
02:58.46thumPer1052yes, I see that...
02:59.17brlcadyou have to either raytrace, where you evaluate both boolean and implicits at once, or you tesselate, where you evaluate the boolean an an explicit form
02:59.42brlcadhe's probably thinking the latter, which I'd say looks like crap for a vector
02:59.57pra5ad*shrug*
03:00.14thumPer1052innacurate also
03:00.20brlcadplus you have to tesselate.. which .. can be painful
03:00.42brlcaduntil someone fixes/replaces/improves the tesselation
03:00.51pra5adwhoa dejavu again
03:00.57brlcadwerd
03:01.13pra5adaccording to mgmt i can't provide external support
03:01.15pra5ad=)
03:01.20brlcadhehe
03:02.25brlcadtelling you, just have to work on something useful a few hours a week and deliver a report on it or deliver it to someone "important" .. then you'll be stuck working on it :)
03:02.44brlcadwhich means you won't be available to work on other stuff as much, of course
03:03.12pra5admeh
03:03.28*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
03:03.32pra5adhas been since ultimatum
03:03.55pra5adenjoyed the ftd presentation?
03:04.15brlcadyeah, it was fine
03:04.24brlcadthe flower were pretty
03:04.48pra5adthe stems confused me
03:05.16brlcadsee, there's something that's seriously needed
03:05.31brlcadsomething better than boolean and/or trees
03:05.47brlcador probabilistic trees even
03:05.57pra5adi was discussing with ``Erik a way to combine both
03:06.02brlcadit's not at all unlike the requirements of a shader language
03:06.13pra5adoh?
03:06.29brlcadalmost identical in many ways
03:06.48pra5adi dont get the whole flowchart business
03:07.12pra5adi visualize the 'tree' as a TREE
03:07.13brlcadthe next logical progression is to proper flowcharting, which isn't currently used
03:07.31pra5adthe whole system of systems paradigm
03:07.35brlcadit's a simplified flowchart with most of your regular flowchart operators missing
03:07.48pra5adbut it's not supposed to have direction
03:07.55pra5adwhere's the flow
03:07.57pra5adand what is it
03:08.08brlcadbut even once/if there was a full flowchart, you run into the issues that programming languages ran into
03:08.47brlcadsure there is flow .. they treat it as states, but the more advanced it gets, you need logic -- iterative logic for starters
03:09.07brlcadif X then if Y then Z else A else B
03:09.21brlcadmultivariate states
03:09.54pra5adhrm
03:10.01brlcadwhat's totally unrepresentable, though, is parallel dependent evaluation
03:10.14brlcadwhere flowcharting falls apart
03:10.21brlcadand that will eventually be needed
03:11.03pra5adso why not get a bunch of ppl together and discuss this once and for all
03:11.21pra5adlol
03:11.25brlcadi should just write a report or something
03:11.35pra5adi swear noone knows wtf is going on
03:11.38pra5adhow codes work
03:11.41pra5ad... sigh
03:11.48brlcaddiscussions just turn into long drawn out nothings
03:15.23brlcadhowdy mahesh :)
03:15.43maheshhey, had some questions for you
03:16.31brlcadask away
03:17.15maheshinstead of trying to plugin mpi stuff into the existing code, do you think I should just write a completely new one?
03:18.09maheshso that i wont have to worry about those complicated stuff done to handle multiprocessors
03:18.56pra5adhmm where would u need iterative logic?
03:19.02brlcadinitial gut feeling is that you should go with the existing as it takes care of quite a lot of details that you'd otherwise have to handle (like setting up the view grid, collecting results)
03:21.39brlcadpra5ad: strictly speaking, you don't need iterative when asking a single node to evaluate (though you certainly could and one could argue that is the natural way to describe them)
03:22.03brlcadthey could all be recursively evaluated, functionally, etc too
03:22.27brlcadit's a state machine, we're querying state at different conditions
03:22.29pra5adu cant mimic this using probabilities?
03:22.45pra5adkeep maintaining the tree
03:23.08brlcaddepends what "this" is
03:23.15pra5aditerative logic
03:23.30brlcadmuch yes -- that's what's done now
03:23.44pra5adwhats missing
03:23.58brlcadthere are plenty of states that do not fit well like that though
03:24.44brlcadparallel dependent evaluation is an easy one that comes to mind just because it doesn't even fit into a static state machine (which all our ft's are)
03:25.21brlcadI could try to fake it with probabilities, but there are easily cases where the probabilities would be either meaningless or flat out wrong
03:26.20brlcadand regardless, it's still a matter of whether or not that even is a "natural" way to describe the state and state failures
03:26.34pra5adu'll have to explain 'parallel dependent evaluation' tomorrow
03:26.50brlcadseems rather natural to say "if this happens followed by this and this, then that happens some of the time"
03:27.53brlcadthink of some parallel code executing with interdependencies between them, locking whatever
03:28.32brlcadtry to flowchart the logic
03:28.32pra5adah time dependancy
03:29.15brlcadtime/state/events/pcdh's/pkcurves/whatever
03:31.37brlcadmahesh: if it's getting too confusing, please let me know :)  I'm sure something can be done to help by either making a simplified rt with some aspects removed, or by explaining
03:32.28brlcadmahesh: if you really think starting fresh will help, I'll still support you, but I do think you'll end up doing more work in the long run and we'd still want to merge the stuff in with rt eventually
03:40.15brlcadmahesh: perhaps a good starting point would be to "make your own" raytracer by copying rt's existing front-end (cp src/rt/view.c src/rt/viewparallel.c) and adding it to the build (edit src/rt/Makefile.am) as 'rtp' or 'rt2' or something so you can make changes and remove stuff and still compare to the original
03:40.48brlcadi could do that for you in just a few minutes, if you think it'd help
03:50.57maheshthat was one more thing i wanted to ask
03:51.26maheshi am not that good with Makefile
03:51.38maheshI want to compile my program with mpicc
03:51.43maheshhow do i do it?
03:53.00brlcadyou should be able to override when you run make
03:53.03brlcadexample:
03:53.21brlcadmake CC=mpicc
03:56.39maheshok...got it
03:56.40maheshnow,
03:56.54maheshdo you remember the structure named server?
03:58.38brlcadvaguely, can look it up
03:59.10maheshthat actually stores information about each processor
03:59.23brlcadhuh?
03:59.29brlcadnot in rt, afaik
03:59.34brlcadmaybe in remrt
03:59.50maheshoops...wait a sec
04:00.38brlcadrt uses a resource structure .. named "resource"
04:01.17brlcadand one special one named rt_uniresource
04:01.38maheshi am sorry...thats what i meant
04:01.44brlcadthose allow for per-cpu storage of data
04:01.56brlcadthat should be thread/processor safe
04:02.38maheshshould i use that structure?
04:04.05brlcadsure you could, or create your own struct resource array for the nodes
04:04.54brlcadi'd probably allocate your own for starters, just to keep it separate
04:05.05maheshok got it
04:05.43brlcadstruct resource mydata[MAX_NODES_IN_CLUSTER];
04:05.59brlcador allocate dynamically with malloc, etc
04:08.51maheshthats fine....i was more concerned about alll the fields in the resource structure
04:09.58maheshi will go over again and ask you specific questions tomorrow
04:10.18brlcadyou'll need to init each one in the array
04:10.36brlcadfor (i=0; i < MAX_NODE_IN_CLUSTER; i++) {
04:10.50brlcadrt _init_resource( &mydata[i], i, rtip);
04:10.53brlcad}
04:11.01maheshyeah yeah...i get those stuff
04:12.12maheshi wonder when i will start coding some stuff!
04:15.49brlcadmahesh: curious, what do you need the resource structures for?
04:17.05brlcadif you mimic/replace the bu_parallel interface, you can use whatever structure/pointer you like
04:18.15maheshi wanted to follow the same way it is done currently. Now it is done for multiprocessors...i was planning to do for nodes
04:18.27maheshthats why i thought i could use the resource structure
04:20.11maheshyou are spot on... replacing bu_parallel is what i should do
04:24.43brlcadif you can replace bu_parallel dead on by only modifying libbu and librt, you'd actually add distributed capabilities across dozens and dozens of apps :)
04:25.26maheshevery time you say such things, i get so excited
04:26.40maheshbut till date, its all been flop from me
04:55.20pra5adu cant be serious.. migw-g++ doesnt recognize enums..
05:00.59brlcadsure it does
05:01.21brlcadi've compiled brl-cad with it
05:01.35brlcadand there's at least one enum in there somewhere I think
05:03.30pra5adahh there's an identifier that passes thru the linux gcc version
05:03.38pra5adthat the cygwin one has reserved apparently
05:32.32pra5ad=~(
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14:00.08InktvlekHello
14:00.24InktvlekI was wondering if there is any news on windows builds
14:00.44InktvlekI couldn't find it on the sf page
14:02.39brlcadhello
14:02.53brlcadthere's an alpha build available if you're interested in testing it
14:03.13Inktvlekyes that's ok with me
14:03.27Inktvlekwhere can I find it?
14:03.39brlcadif you run into any issues, please report them back here to me
14:03.45brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/private/BRL-CAD_win32_20050916.zip
14:03.47InktvlekI will
14:04.26Inktvlekthank you!
14:04.27brlcadthere will likely be a beta next month that gets posted to the site
14:04.46brlcadhttp://brlcad.org under the Documents section for tutorials/documentation
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16:50.49``Erik*burp*
16:57.50brlcad*burp*
17:17.21Twingy_*meow*
17:33.38``Erikdon't you mean *flip* ?
17:33.51Twingy_*barf*
17:34.23``Erikhttp://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q325038
17:34.38``Erikhttp://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q172653
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051021

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051021

03:06.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: make the compiler, linker, and preprocessor checks look for 'nrecognize' in the test output in case the return value happens to be zero so that options are properly enabled/disabled.
03:13.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
03:13.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: get rid of the -fPIC hack, libtool really should take care of it (figure out the
03:13.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: altix problem later if it's still around); get rid of -mdynamic-no-pic as it
03:13.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: wasn't supposed to actually get added to a flag, it only encouraged the test to
03:13.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: fail on non darwin systems before the tests were refactored to BC_ tests.
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07:56.19*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
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12:34.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/vol.c: machine.h requires stdio.h
12:35.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/submodel.c: machine.h requires stdio.h
12:37.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (dsp.c ebm.c): machine.h requires stdio.h
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12:49.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/engine.c: MS VC 6.0 complained about a control path that does not return a value
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12:56.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: variable s only if HAVE_UNIX_IO
12:57.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot.c: unused variable deleted
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14:09.47brlcad_d_rossberg: I know machine.h says it needs it.. but I don't see why exactly it should need stdio.h
14:10.10clock__brlcad_: will you be able to use my bolt generation code?
14:10.17brlcad_was there a symbol causing trouble?
14:10.23brlcad_clock__: definitely
14:10.50clock__brlcad_: and put it into the brlcad program?
14:11.07brlcad_that would be the idea :)
14:11.57brlcad_probably as a standalone tool for starters, eventually as a procedural geometry generator when the new interface is up
14:12.31brlcad_though I'd also want to convert it to the binary api too instead of ascii
14:13.01brlcad_post it up as a patch, and I should be able to get it in today probably
14:17.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: machine.h apparently requires stdio.h so migrate towards self-describing headers (even though machine.h is going away soon)
14:34.11d_rossbergbrlcad: machine.h asks for FOPEN_MAX which is defined in stdio.h
14:35.04d_rossbergI got a compiler warning when stdio.h was included after machine.h
14:35.05brlcad_as an ifdef though.. so you're seeing redifine warnings/errors?
14:35.15brlcad_got it
14:36.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: needed for FOPEN_MAX
14:36.35brlcad_d_rossberg: on a side note, no headers should appear before common.h in any file
14:40.38d_rossbergbrlcad: ok, i'll have a look at this (but maybe not today)
14:41.09brlcad_order is common then single interface header if it exists then system headers then common interface headers then local headers
14:41.21d_rossbergI try to eliminate all MSVC compiler warnings, because they may lead to crashes
14:41.39brlcad_d_rossberg: no worries, I fixed the headers already
14:42.44d_rossbergit's not about the header, it's about the sources i've changed with stdio.h on the top
14:42.46brlcad_yeah, I've got a similar laundry list of warning squashing to go through -- causes similar issues on some 64bit systems (e.g. when a header is missing and function is presumed to return an "int")
14:43.13brlcad_d_rossberg: i know -- i mean i've fixed those already too -- about to commit them
14:43.44d_rossbergbrlcad: thanks
14:44.07brlcad_i'm just happy I actually get to code today ;)
14:44.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (dsp.c ebm.c submodel.c vol.c): machine.h includes stdio.h, common.h goes first too
14:46.21d_rossbergfyi: a compiler warning in MSVC may be an indication of a "confused" compiler which may produce wrong code, especially in the release build
14:46.43clock__"S" and "V".
14:46.44brlcad_good to know
14:56.47clock__sometimes you even have to delete windows and replace them with linux to get rid of a problem
14:56.53clock__rebooting may not be sufficient
14:57.03clock__or even reinstalling windows may be insufficient ;-)
14:57.12``Erikmeh, linux has it's own issues, freebsd, baybee
14:57.26clock__yes luniks is krap :)
14:57.55archivist_well use djgpp for the windows port
14:58.14``Erikcygwin?
14:58.43``Erik(I thought djgpp ended as a 32b dos compiler, no goop to wire to nt based crap?)
15:01.39brlcad_msys for the purist
15:17.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: aix build fixes, configure option for no flag dorkage, and fixing benchmark path issue before next release
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17:13.23``Erikdone with my disc yet, boy?
17:14.20brlcadyep
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18:57.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: g2asc exports attr lines but will not grok them on asc2g
18:58.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: mged should add bin dir to search path so that subcommands like rt and company work as expected without path problems
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051022

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051022

01:10.50brlcadwoooo
04:08.15pra5ad_^_^#
04:22.26Twingycan't get enough of that sea urchin eh?
04:36.06brlcadnever
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04:58.05pra5ad@_@'
06:59.07archivist_4325
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12:38.10cad438Hello, I have a problem using MGED. I hope this is the right place to get advice?
12:39.56cad438I have version 7.2.4 installed, and it seems I can only select primitive shapes. I can't find anything like "solid selection" that is referred to on page 105 of the Butler et. al. manual
12:40.23cad438Is there anyone actively following this box?
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14:40.13brlcadcad438: sure is
14:43.31brlcadcad438: primitives are solids, some of the interface in mged has been reworded slightly since, but the words solids and primitives are pretty much interchangeable (i.e. there's a primitive select on the menu)
14:56.06brlcador "Prim Select" to be more exact
14:56.14brlcadon the Edit menu
15:04.56cad438Thank you!
15:05.09cad438But that leaves me with another problem.
15:06.39cad438What I am trying to do is to combine primitives into a combination (or region or whatever) and change the position of the assembly by rotating or translating.
15:07.01brlcadokay
15:07.39cad438I am sure there must be an easy way to do that
15:07.56cad438But I haven't found it yet.
15:08.07brlcadah, well of course there is ;-)
15:08.21brlcadyou've not gotten through the tutorial covering combinations yet?
15:08.44cad438I have
15:09.08cad438I even made the nice looking globe :-)
15:09.59brlcadsay you create a couple primitives (e.g. make sph sph and make box arb8)
15:10.16cad438yes?
15:10.35brlcadyou position then where you like (e.g. sed sph and tra 1000 0 0)
15:11.20brlcadthen you combine them into a region (r some_region.r u box - sph)
15:11.52cad438Yes, I know how to do that, but what I was looking for is a way to do it the other way rounr.
15:12.02cad438For instance...
15:12.33brlcadwhen you make regions, it doesn't automatically display them, so you can display it up (B some_region.r)
15:12.38brlcadnot done yet ;)
15:12.54brlcadnow say you want to translate/rotate/scale/whatever that region
15:13.24brlcadthe gui way is to select Edit -> Matrix Selection
15:14.19brlcadyou'd pic either the /some_region.r/sph or /some_region.r/box line and then some_region.r in the subsequent dialog to indicate that you want to edit the matrix over some_region.r
15:15.24brlcadThe edit menu now has all the options you might hope for including scale, move, rotate
15:16.10brlcador you can just issue the command line verisons:  rot 100 0 0  and tra 0 1000 1000 and sca 1.2 etc
15:16.34cad438I tried it this way, but as you explain it I am still acting on primitives, right?
15:16.49cad438Or can I do this with a region within a region?
15:16.50brlcadnope
15:17.15brlcada region within a region is a modeling error, but a combination with a region or region within a combination is okay
15:17.23brlcador a combination within a combination
15:18.11cad438yes, okay, that's what I meant really. But can I move a combination within a combination in the way you described it?
15:18.23brlcadwhen you make a region, that's akin to making a 'part' in other cad packages -- you're denoting the intent that it's something that takes up physical space instead of just being some template shape
15:19.09brlcadcombinations of regions are akin to 'assemblies', combinations of primitives are merely grouped template shapes
15:19.27brlcadto answer your question, yes you can
15:19.44brlcadyou go into matrix select, and select the matrix over the combination you wish you apply the modification to
15:20.59cad438Thanks! I am trying to create a disk with a few boreholes equidistantly distributed over a ring. The boreholes themselves are not simpe cylinders, but are a combination of a few primitives.
15:21.23cad438And I don't want to redraw them every time, you see.
15:21.46cad438I'll try again to do it the way you suggest.
15:22.47brlcadyeah, that should be fine
15:23.29brlcadyou can make a copy of the 'combination of a few primitives' template that you have positioning each one where you want it to be using the matrix selection
15:24.12cad438That is indeed exactly what I want to do.
15:24.43brlcadjust be sure to give each copy a unique name so that you can find it in the matrix selection
15:25.08brlcadit's all simple references, so it's very fast and compact
15:33.32cad438I don't get it to work :-(
15:33.44cad438When I choose for matrix select...
15:33.55cad438I first have to select a primitive
15:34.10cad438The combinations do not appear in the drop-down menu
15:34.26brlcadthen you're not displaying the combination
15:34.37brlcadit only gives you a list of what's been "e"'d up
15:34.48brlcadtype "who" to see what is currently being edited
15:35.14brlcadwhen you create the combination, it doesn't display/e it for you
15:35.27brlcadso you'd still be looking at the primitives only
15:35.39cad438oops
15:35.51brlcadthat was the B some_region.r in the example I gave to redisplay the newly created region or combination
15:36.03cad438you're right, that's what's going on!
15:40.30cad438No....
15:41.17brlcadproblem?
15:41.32cad438In the first drop down that comes up after selecting "matrix select..." I have to select a primitive.
15:42.00brlcadthe first drop down should have a path like /comb1/prim1
15:42.15cad438There are no combinations there, only the primitives belonging to the shown combinations
15:42.30cad438yes
15:43.11brlcad/comb1/prim1 /comb1/prim2 etc yes?
15:43.33cad438but I am trying to rotates /comb1/comb2/* within /comb1
15:44.01brlcadokay, so then it's listing /comb1/comb2/prim1 /comb1/comb2/prim2 etc .. yes?
15:44.22brlcador are you only seeing /comb2/prim1 /comb2/prim2 etc
15:45.34cad438yes, it says /comb1/comb2/prim1
15:45.41brlcadyou want to edit the matrices of the combinations inside the combination, so you need to display that top-level comb1
15:45.46brlcadokay, that's good
15:46.06brlcadyou can select any one of the lines that says comb2
15:46.27brlcadi presume you have a comb2 a comb3 a comb4 etc inside comb1 yes?
15:46.52cad438yes
15:46.59brlcadgood
15:47.25brlcadso yeah, select any one of the comb[2 through whatever] lines -- it doesn't matter that it displays the primitives underneath it
15:48.14brlcadit's effectively asking you what you want to treat as a coordinate system point of reference at the same time in case you need to position things exactly
15:48.47brlcadthe second dialog will list comb2 prim1 prim2 prim3 -- select comb2 and you'll be editing the matrix over comb2 inside comb1
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15:56.56cad438No, it seems I am editing the matrix over comb2 inside comb1 relative to comb1/comb2/prim1 (which I selected in the first menu)
15:57.22cad438Or else, the boreholes are rotating around themselves, rather than around the disk...
15:58.18cad438Whci makes sense, because at no point I have told the software to use comb1 as a reference
15:59.02cad438right?
16:00.03cad438In fact, in the procedure I just followed, comb2 could as well have been the top-level combination, rather than comb1.
16:05.43brlcadright
16:05.54brlcadthat's what I meant about the prim being the point of reference
16:06.28brlcadmged wants to use something inside comb2 as a point of reference for the coordinate system
16:08.28brlcadthere is a way to set up alternative modeling axes too, but that's a rather advanced modeling technique that I wouldn't recommend until you've been using mged for a long time ;)
16:11.15brlcadif it's rotations you are having trouble with, you might be interested in Settings->Rotate About
16:12.08brlcadalso Modes -> Axes to actually see the axes you are working with
16:34.21cad438You have solved my problem!
16:34.49cad438Thank you.
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16:36.42cad438It was not necessary to pack comb2 within comb1, the latter being the body of reference for rotation, as it is not possible to go up in the hierarchy to set the reference system.
16:38.03cad438Instead I proceeded as you told me, picking any primitive in the region-to-be-rotated, and subsequently picking the region itself in the two menus of "matrix selection..."
16:39.42cad438I then make sure that the axes of reference are set conveniently (in my case that was just the model origin, so that was easy) so that the choice made in the first menu is effectively disgarded.
16:40.19cad438And finally the right commands for rotation can be given.
16:40.28cad438Again, thanks a lot!
16:40.47brlcadno problem
16:40.59brlcadglad it all worked out :)
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16:47.28cad438I got to go now, but I'll remeber this place! See you next time ;-)
16:48.46brlcadsee you around
17:10.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: search for libtoolize14, make sure that we can pinpoint the alternate libtoolize's location via which/dirname in order to print instructions correctly. fix typo on glti
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20:52.45maheshSean, are you there?
20:57.02brlcadperhaps ;)
20:57.14maheshha ha
20:57.47maheshanother question for you if you are not yet tired of answering
20:57.54brlcadnever tired
20:58.21maheshi am not able to understand clearly the function do_pixel in worker.c
20:58.38maheshcould you just tell me what it does with each pixel it takes as argument
20:59.47brlcadsure, give me sec
21:01.05brlcaddo_pixel actually handles the processing of exactly one pixel
21:02.25maheshbut after processing that pixel, it should be writing to framebuffer or to a file?
21:03.32brlcadneither
21:03.40brlcadit stores the pixel result in memory
21:04.02brlcadin the application structure, there is a_color
21:04.13brlcadthat is filled in with the rgb result
21:04.38maheshoh ok...got it
21:04.43brlcadview_pixel() is called at the end to
21:05.05brlcadlet the application handle what it wants to do with the pixel
21:05.24brlcad(it's a raytracer-specific function in view.c)
21:07.00maheshhow about making each node in the network call do_pixel on a chunk of pixels allocated to it?
21:08.35brlcadyes definitely
21:08.48brlcadyou're basically going to need to define your own worker()
21:08.59maheshcant be so simple isnt it :) ?
21:09.09brlcad:)
21:09.24brlcadnot sure for certain until it's done ;)
21:09.30maheshtrue
21:14.38brlcadbu_parallel() is called with worker() to run worker() on each processor
21:16.17brlcadall the worker()'s running in parallel on the various cpus available coordinate processing chunks of pixels at a time
21:18.41brlcadso I imagine that there's effectively two functions that you'll have to write
21:19.11maheshbu_distributed and worker?
21:19.13brlcada bu_parallel of your own (call it bu_parallel or bu_distributed or whatever)
21:20.05brlcadand yes, a worker (mpi_worker perhaps) routine that will handle actually shoveling off work to remote hosts (who could in turn call bu_parallel with worker)
21:27.05maheshright...things are more clear now
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051023

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051023

00:54.04pra5ad=)
00:55.20Twingyo.O
00:57.08pra5adi was up $9k.. lost a bunch and ended up at $1k, won 3 all ins in a row and got up to $8k, called other guy's all in waiting for a flush draw which didnt come (guy had pocket kings)
00:57.11pra5adnow im at 60
00:57.31Twingyhrm?
00:57.41pra5adtexas holdem
00:57.44Twingywhere?
00:57.51pra5adpokerstars.com
00:58.00Twingyonline poker? *shudder*
00:58.11Twingyfake money or real?
00:58.23pra5adgame i played was obviously fake
00:58.30pra5adthere are real money tourneys tho
00:58.40pra5adhigh rollers have $1k+ blinds
00:58.50pra5adwell for single tables
00:58.57TwingyBank: 8580000
00:58.58pra5adtourney winnings can be $1million
00:59.01Twingymudding :)
00:59.09pra5ad(real money)
00:59.14TwingyI'm gonna buy a war galeon for 4.25 mil
00:59.28pra5adis there a GM in ur mud?
00:59.46Twingygm?
00:59.52Twingyguild master?
01:01.08pra5adgame master
01:01.27Twingynope
01:01.33pra5adpersistant world?
01:01.38pra5ad(wait.. duh)
01:02.00Twingyhrm
01:02.06TwingyI want my machine tools *pout*
01:02.16TwingyI'm going through withdrawls
01:02.26Twingyfood, brb
01:02.37pra5adwhich mud is this again
01:36.42Twingytirn aill
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02:02.52pra5adthe firmware upgrade for my linksys router has a broken implementation for dyndns
02:03.09pra5adeven dyndns' faq mentions this
02:03.11pra5ad=(
02:08.19pra5adwhats the host/ip for the mud
02:09.07Twingyotherworldmud.com 4000
02:09.12Twingytelnet
02:09.14Twingyor zmud
02:09.40Twingyit'll seem kinda confusing and boring for the first few levels until you get out onto the world map
02:09.53Twingyafter that it's disturbingly addictive
02:10.31pra5adpvp? pve?
02:13.10Twingy?
02:13.19pra5adplayer vs player?
02:13.24Twingyno
02:13.24pra5ador is this carebear
02:13.27pra5adk
02:13.41Twingyjust create a char, play a bit, you'll die alot
02:13.47Twingythen you'll get an idea of how it all works
02:13.53Twingythen you'll probly create a real character
02:17.53pra5adhow long does it take for the reg letter to arrive
02:18.05Twingyimmediately
02:18.39Twingyhehe
02:18.51pra5adstill nothing
02:19.07pra5adbleh
02:19.21Twingyhrm
02:19.28Twingydelete the character and try agian *shrug*
02:19.57pra5adwhats ur char name
02:20.05TwingyTwingy
02:24.22pra5adwow grammar..
02:24.35pra5ador is that supposed to be elvish
02:24.45Twingytype:
02:24.47Twingycolor complete
02:24.48Twingydisplay all
02:24.50Twingyautoloot
02:24.51Twingyautosplit
02:25.00Twingyand keep typing "reroll" until you get good stats
02:25.05Twingythen go all the way down
02:25.07Twingyand kill stuff
02:25.09Twingyby typing
02:25.10pra5adhow do i chat
02:25.11Twingy"hit whatever"
02:25.15Twingytype gossip or chat
02:28.08pra5adhow do i open doors?
02:28.28Twingy"open door"
02:28.52Twingytype who
02:29.10pra5adi dont see u on
02:30.33TwingyI'm invisible
02:30.47TwingyI'm a gnome mage
02:31.02pra5adhow do i go through doors
02:31.07pra5adah nm
02:31.30Twingygo all the way down
02:31.34Twingyand kill some birds and humanoids
02:31.36Twingyto get to level 2
02:35.39pra5adi bought a sword
02:35.41pra5adhow do i equip
02:36.20Twingywield sword
02:36.21Twingysheath
02:36.22Twingyunsheath
02:36.26Twingyhit <object>
02:36.32Twingyconsider <object>
02:38.52Twingytype eq for equipment
02:39.43pra5adhow do i use a key
02:39.48Twingyunlock door
02:39.50Twingyunlock gate
02:39.51Twingyunlock ...
02:40.49Twingykill anything yet?
02:41.32pra5adhow do i pick up soemthing
02:44.26pra5adserver die?
02:46.13Twingypossibly
02:46.16Twingytry again
02:47.10Twingyhrm
02:47.12Twingycan't connect
02:47.54Twingyonce you get to level 3 I'll show you the world map
02:48.19pra5adannoying ui
02:48.24Twingyheh
02:48.30pra5adcant u emulate a chatbox on part of the screen?
02:48.34Twingybetter than a bunch of kludgy buttons
02:48.39Twingyhrm?
02:48.46TwingyI use telnet
02:49.03pra5adwhy does chat have to screw with the text u are reading
02:49.13Twingyhrm?
02:49.16pra5adyea me too
02:49.18Twingydoesn't mess mine up...
02:49.24TwingyI'm using xterm on freebsd
02:49.24pra5admess up as it
02:49.26pra5adit scrolls
02:49.30pra5adeverything
02:49.36pra5adwhenever a chat msg shows up
02:49.37Twingywhat os are you on
02:49.40pra5adlinux
02:49.47Twingy*shrug*
02:49.49pra5adxterm
02:49.51Twingynot quite sure what your problem is
02:49.58Twingyit's back up
02:50.21pra5adtoo much text is my problem =)
02:50.27pra5adtv time
02:51.10Twingyheh
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03:36.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: add a check to see if automake chokes on libtool as well (since sans -f autoconf may complete successfully)
03:36.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (23 files): ws
04:25.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (lgt.sh perf.sh run.sh try.sh viewdiff.sh): trailing ws
04:26.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (8 files): trailing ws
04:27.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (8 files in 4 dirs): trailing ws
04:44.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1413 files in 98 dirs): trailing ws
05:13.37Twingymuhaha
05:35.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: ws
07:04.25pra5adheh im at $10 (real $$) profit at this holdem table
07:04.33pra5adi should cash out now
07:04.36pra5adthen again im dumb
07:11.13archivist_228
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07:51.22pra5adwoo $13 profit
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22:26.08AchiestDragonbrlcad:  re Bug #1311228,photon map rendering not outputting result to screen , since building from cvs i have not had the same problem
22:26.47brlcadAchiestDragon: good to know, though that code hasn't changed ;)
22:30.49AchiestDragoncould be a function call looking in the wrong place for a lib , suse seems to put things in odd locations
23:50.51Twingysean
23:51.05Twingycan you add a brlcad-config in the near future?
23:53.51brlcadyep, it's on the todo list
23:54.55Twingyk, cool
23:55.06TwingyI've got a new convertor I want to include in my proggie
23:55.17Twingyand I don't wanna shove it into brl-cad cause of various dependencies
23:55.39brlcadsounds good
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051024

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051024

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03:16.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: now it becomes clear -- even if they do have python and sdl, that doesn't mean adrt will build until the adrt makefiles are fixed and the hard paths are removed
03:17.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: heh, not C code
03:21.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: libtclcad no longer includes tk, so link against it
03:23.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: libtk not needed
03:24.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: libtk not needed, aix fixes
04:34.14pra5ad=)
04:39.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/ (Makefile.am generic/Makefile.am): altix adjustments to accommodate non-pic object linking bug
05:16.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/Makefile.am: unnecessary to include the .la, sort
05:50.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/.cvsignore: ignore adrt_bench
06:01.32Twingyoff to bedski
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13:57.23Twingy_grumble cakes
13:59.20``Erikerm
13:59.21``Erikuh
13:59.24``Erikno
13:59.28Twingy_too late
13:59.28``Erikorthus shouldn't be using cvsup anymore
13:59.37``Erikit's all striaght cvs
13:59.42``Erikand tied into all the other fbsd machines
13:59.45Twingy_*shrug*
13:59.49Twingy_it's 50% done
13:59.55``Erikkill it before I beat you
14:00.03Twingy_okie
14:00.17Twingy_make sure ports gets updated to latest eand greatest though
14:00.23Twingy_I need a new version of mysql50-server
14:00.27``Erikunless you really want to attempt downgrading all the systems, which will render all fbsd systems unusable
14:00.57``ErikI d'no if the port is updated just yet, grU just noted that the software was released and was working on finding the port maintainer
14:00.59Twingy_I dunno why you would link them all like that...
14:01.00``Eriklike a couple minutes ago
14:01.15``ErikI thought I deinstalled cvsup
14:01.21Twingy_I just installed it
14:02.12Twingy_so what's the deal?
14:02.17``Erikdon't do that, it's all anoncvs now
14:02.27Twingy_well you can inform us when you do these things
14:02.30Twingy_like
14:02.30Twingy_email
14:02.35``Erikmeh
14:02.38Twingy_instead of magically doing shit
14:02.41Twingy_and complaining about it
14:02.44Twingy_I should beat you for that
14:03.02``Erikmeh
14:03.11``Erikit's gonna take a while to recover the damage
14:03.29Twingy_I think installing a fresh copy of fbsd 6
14:03.37Twingy_and have it without all the connection crap
14:03.42Twingy_to the other machines would be optimal
14:03.51Twingy_then I can cvsup
14:03.56Twingy_and get my latest copy of mysql
14:04.03``Erikheh
14:04.07Twingy_:)
14:04.12``Erikso you can spend the time doing it on orthus
14:04.18Twingy_yes
14:04.21``Erikand I can spend the time doing it on nifleim and shiva
14:04.24Twingy_yep
14:04.29``Erikand we can waste a good chunk of time
14:04.32Twingy_yep
14:04.46Twingy_or
14:05.04Twingy_you can fix things, and get me the latest version of mysql, and inform me of any machines you do changes to that I'm on the admin list for
14:05.06``Erikum
14:05.15``Erikwhy don't you hold your horses until the freebsd port is updated
14:05.39``Erikyou'd have installed an old mysql50 if you'd have gone through with it
14:05.52``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/databases/mysql50-server/
14:06.13*** join/#brlcad alex_joni (n=alex_jon@193.226.12.129)
14:06.24alex_jonigreetings..
14:06.34Twingy_5.0.10 or higher will do
14:06.59Twingy_according to this
14:07.00``Erikwhat's in 5.0.10?
14:07.01Twingy_it's 5.0.13
14:07.03alex_jonianyone heard of a data format called .src (is some CAD inside)
14:07.08Twingy_a working compilation
14:07.17Twingy_so this would be fine
14:07.18``Erik5.0.13rc, a 'beta'
14:07.24Twingy_that's fine
14:07.30Twingy_it's for me
14:07.35Twingy_hence installing on orthus
14:07.43Twingy_actually ya know what, you can fix orthus
14:07.47Twingy_I'll install it on my local box
14:07.50Twingy_:)
14:08.49Twingy_problem solved
14:09.22``Erikand it's on orthus
14:09.40Twingy_I installed it last week
14:09.49``Erikthe client was there, the server was not
14:09.53Twingy_yes
14:09.56Twingy_I just did a deinstall
14:09.59``Erikoh
14:10.00``Erikheh
14:10.03Twingy_obviouslly not on the client
14:10.06``Erikthen I guess I reinstalled it
14:10.45``Erikmebbe I'll do a "how to admin our fbsd boxen" email or something today
14:11.09Twingy_or finish your paper
14:11.15Twingy_and stop complaining people are breaking your stuff
14:11.19Twingy_by leaving them in the dark
14:11.26Twingy_and expecting them to have mental telepathy
14:11.58Twingy_cause you find some clever modification to make life easier and not telling anyone about it
14:12.01``Erikheh, cvsup being gone didn't seem odd? :)
14:12.09Twingy_orthus is new'ish
14:12.14Twingy_I figured it wasn't installed
14:12.21*** part/#brlcad alex_joni (n=alex_jon@193.226.12.129)
14:12.37``Erikit went through a system upgrade o.O
14:12.38Twingy_how am I to know you're upstairs spending time configuring the system
14:12.46``Erikanyways *shrug*
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17:59.24Twingy_http://antesdelfin.com/ilustrations/teletuby.jpg
18:00.03Twingy_MySQL 5.0 Now Available for Production Use
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23:06.58``Erikhm, so that's what 3 heart attacks feel like
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051025

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051025

02:11.08*** join/#brlcad joevalleyfield (n=44323434@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:09.28pra5adi dont wanna study *wah*
03:16.58Twingyhah
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15:51.44razbrlcad: I was not able to facetize m35.g model; any thoughts?
16:18.17Twingy_what's the problem?
16:18.31Twingy_the facetizer gives up on complex geometries
16:18.40Twingy_it's not 100% working
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17:01.24brlcadraz: yeah, usually it'll succeed on a component-by-component basis if it does not succeed on a high-level object
17:09.17brlcador by tweaking the tolerances
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17:42.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Mged.tcl Db.tcl Database.tcl): Mods to allow sharing of the database object
17:49.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Drawable.tcl: Minor formatting
17:56.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA/TankWizardIA.tcl: Move XML related methods to src/tclscripts/archer/Wizard.tcl
17:59.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Wizard.tcl: Add XML helper functions (from src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA/TankWizardIA.tcl
18:02.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mods to support sharing of a database object
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20:00.49DarkMasterthat was weird
20:00.51DarkMasterfight to the death!
20:01.27brlcadheh
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20:04.20razbrlcad: I tried facetizing individual components with no success. The only one that worked was the 'light' component in m35.g
20:05.09brlcadraz: okay, gimme a sec and I'll look/fix it
20:22.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_tgc.c: don't abort a tgc tesselation on invalid absolute tolerance
20:23.29brlcadoops, wrong branch
20:26.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_tgc.c: join bobWinPort tolerance fix
20:28.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed tgc absolute tesselation tolerance issue
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20:53.29*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
20:54.07AchiestDragonwhen you change the fonts and save the .mgedrc it does not save the new font configuration , so when you exit and restart it , it reverts to the default ones
20:55.17AchiestDragonthe one i think i filed was when displaying the list of fonts the list is longer than the screen , so you cannot get at half the font types
21:09.27brlcadknown issue, iirc, it doesn't save them
21:09.52AchiestDragonk so no point with a bug report for it
21:10.10AchiestDragonis there one for the font list
21:10.11brlcadnah, I wouldn't bother -- though you could file a RFE
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22:13.27*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
23:55.45``Erikcontinuations are nifty
23:55.55``Erikwoops
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051026

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051026

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02:26.07pra5adwhat a horrible exam
03:11.13brlcadwas the laplacian on it? :)
03:25.24pra5adnope
03:25.40pra5adfourier and hough were there
03:26.03brlcadheh, wierd
03:26.16pra5adfirst page, 2nd question
03:26.24pra5ad'explain what causes invariant moments'
03:26.30pra5adme: uhhh.. wtf is that
03:28.44joevalleyfieldso what does cause invariant moments?
03:28.53pra5adbeats me :)
03:29.15pra5adi went to baltimore and drowned my sorrows with beer
03:29.25joevalleyfield:)
03:29.48joevalleyfieldis it shepards class?
03:30.01pra5adno
03:30.15pra5adhe doesnt teach image processing
03:30.33pra5ad'el tony' is teaching robotics w/ machine vision next semester
03:34.41pra5adi didnt realize capt. morgan's costume was so damn complicated
03:34.44pra5addamned*
03:34.54pra5adill have to pick another one :(
03:39.49joevalleyfieldgoogle knows what an invariant moment is, but not what makes them pop up
03:40.15Twingyit's when the moment becomes invariant
03:40.26Twingythat was an invariant moment
03:40.52Twingyplus alot of funky math symbols
03:41.05joevalleyfieldyou agree with google
03:42.16pra5adi prolly misquoted the problem
03:42.26pra5admy ram has been flushed already
03:42.46Twingygood
03:42.50Twingyyou can help me build a forge
03:42.55pra5ad?
03:43.00Twingyfor melting aluminum
03:43.07pra5adgood night
03:44.41pra5adexcellent
03:44.50pra5adu can clear out our recycling bin
03:44.53pra5adin my office
03:45.02Twingy*nod*
03:45.14Twingyis it the big one?
03:45.17pra5adno
03:45.19Twingyaww
03:45.21Twingythey took it
03:45.32TwingyI'll have to  pillage the recycling guys truck
03:45.45pra5adu need to build the forge next to the fridge
03:46.14Twingyas the fire marshal, I must say, I like your thinking
03:46.20pra5adomg
03:46.25pra5adwendy put u in charge
03:46.27pra5adi forgot
03:46.28pra5adlmao
03:46.30Twingy:)
03:46.44Twingy<insert sinister laugh here>
03:47.02pra5adhmm red playa costume at walmart
03:47.07pra5adthat'll have to do i guess
03:48.43Twingyhrm
03:48.48TwingyI think I'll weld a crucible first
03:49.01pra5admm crucibles
03:49.06pra5adi remember those from chem class
03:55.18``Erikheh
03:55.37``Erikdidn't the romans crucible people? o.O
03:55.53``Erikand sir francis drake circumcised the world with a 60' clipper
03:59.57TwingyIn the latest poll, 55 percent of the respondents said that they would vote for the Democratic candidate if Bush were again running for the presidency this year.
04:00.06TwingyI'm surprised it's not more
04:00.33joevalleyfieldand how is that different than the 2004 exit polls??
04:00.48Twingyso that basically means 45% of americans are beyond the capacity to do trivial thinking
04:03.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: rework the 'tol' tolerance command to not allow any negative tolerances. also auto-handle the case where an absolute tesselation tolerance was requested at a level less than the calculation distance tolerance.
04:04.43``ErikI'm sure that more than 45% of americans (and more than 45% of the world) is incapable of trivial thought o.O
04:05.10pra5ad"Half the world is composed of idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them" - Walter Kerr
04:05.48``Erikaw, DAMNIT
04:05.56Twingy:D
04:06.16Twingyhe's drunk, he won't care
04:06.30TwingyRemote Control for Humans?
04:06.54Twingysounds like that thing at siggraph
04:08.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved mged 'tol' command tolerance value checks
04:08.22pra5ad"An idea that is developed and put into action is more important than an idea that exists only as an idea."
04:08.34pra5adaw snap
04:08.35Twingyindeed
04:08.38pra5admy costume: lil john
04:08.41pra5adOKAAAAY
04:08.47``ErikWHAT?
04:08.51pra5adnow to find some dreads
04:09.01pra5adand a football jersey
04:09.08``Erikand a hugeassed goblet
04:09.11``Erikand diamond grill
04:09.12``Erikyo
04:09.15pra5adand a pimp cup
04:09.33``Erikyou should go as 'drunk'
04:09.37Twingypra5ad: who's the quote by?
04:09.47pra5adbuddha
04:09.51pra5ad=)
04:09.52pra5adhttp://en.thinkexist.com/quotation/an_idea_that_is_developed_and_put_into_action_is/200794.html
04:09.56``Erikbuddha was not a mathematician, obviously
04:09.57joevalleyfielddeveloped and checked into cvs
04:10.45``Erikbuddha obviously didn't do java code o.O :D *duck*
04:11.27pra5ad"You cannot travel the path until you have become the path itself" - justin has become (a) diva
04:11.42TwingyO.o
04:12.04``Erik... justin's a diva? ... I've become enlightened
04:12.21Twingydamnit
04:12.22Twingybricks
04:12.26TwingyI wanna build a forge again
04:12.29Twingy>_<
04:12.45``Erikheh
04:12.49``ErikI can just see it now
04:12.51TwingyI need to contaminate my yard one last time
04:12.58pra5ad"Good ideas are common - what's uncommon are people who'll work hard enough to bring them about"
04:13.01``Erikyour neighbor is wandering around wondering where all their landscaping bricks went
04:13.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: merge from rel-7-6-branch to get the 7.6.2 release notes
04:13.17Twingysounds like me and this buddha guy would get along
04:13.27Twingyhehehe
04:13.32TwingyI'm out of propane though
04:13.38Twingyso I'd have to borrow their propane too
04:14.17pra5adhow exactly are u making the crucible?
04:14.19pra5ador are u buying one
04:14.26Twingygonna make one outta steel
04:14.32Twingyand weld a handle onto it
04:14.41Twingyprobly 1 meter long
04:15.15``Erikman, this greenfield shit is fucked up
04:15.24Twingyso'z it can hold about 64 cm^3 of aluminum
04:15.31pra5adwhat are the melting points of steel and alum?
04:15.37Twingyhigh and low
04:15.42pra5ad?
04:16.03Twingy~1500 to 650
04:16.05ibotinf
04:16.16Twingy~1500 to 1600
04:16.18ibotinf
04:16.22Twingy~inf to NaN
04:16.31Twingyhaha, crashed it
04:16.32Twingyfucker
04:16.43pra5adceramic is too hard?
04:16.52Twingycermic is not very weldable o.O
04:17.02pra5ad:(
04:17.54Twingymore than likely I'll buy a large diameter pipe
04:18.01Twingycut a V into the lip
04:18.23Twingyand weld on a V lip
04:18.42Twingyat 90 degree to the handle
04:18.48Twingythen I can just rotate it into the casting
04:20.34TwingyI'm thinking we might be able to build some of the parts for the bot out of the aluminum
04:20.42Twingylike internals and stuff
04:20.53Twingyto save the pricey steel for armor
04:21.01Twingyplus keeping the bot as light as possible
04:21.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac ChangeLog include/config_win.h): merge rel-7-6-branch to HEAD to update rev. to 7.6.3
04:22.35pra5adwhat? we're not using chobum for armor?
04:22.54Twingyhey
04:22.59Twingyif you make it...
04:23.05TwingyI'll even settle for titanium
04:23.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl: merge rel-7-6-branch to HEAD.
04:24.10pra5adi thought u had access to a scrapped challenger mkII
04:24.32Twingyhrm
04:24.44Twingytoo bad we can't rummage through stuff at the range
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10:46.29AchiestDragonTwingy:   if you want someting like that you should look at http://www.milweb.net/index2.html
10:46.48AchiestDragontheres other places that do the same sort of thing also
10:53.10AchiestDragonas to recycleing cans , the problem you will have with a furnice is that the aluminum cans tend to evaporate as the aluminium is too thin , you will need to get lots and compress them into blocks
10:53.22AchiestDragonlike a car crusher does
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14:01.55``Erik(and I'm grinning because I went through that after the network outage)
14:02.26Twingy_*shrug* I got all me proggie source, I I think all I had in that directory was and old checkout of brlcad
14:03.23``Erikthen why bother?
14:03.43Twingy_dunno if there was something else there I'm nothinking of
14:04.03Twingy_I'll be awake in about 4 hours
14:04.07Twingy_ask me then :)
14:06.19``Erikmmm, donuts
14:07.12Twingy_mmm, torus
14:07.27archivist_hmm dunkin donuts, a good excuse to come to america
14:10.17``Erikew
14:11.56``Erikuh oh, mike g is talking to someone about adrt
14:14.53Twingy_I guess it's time to rename it again
14:14.58``Erikmeh, some software got deinstalled, that was the issue :(
14:26.02Twingy_cool 1% done
14:26.21``Erikwoohoo
14:26.31``Erikby crunching the numbers? or are you using bar?
14:49.57Twingy_12 of 833 GB
14:50.25Twingy_this will take about a week?
14:51.54``Erikuhmmmmm
14:52.05``Erik883 gb compressed, and you have 12 uncompressed gigs out of it?
14:52.14Twingy_yah
14:52.16``Erik(the final file should be more like 1.6tb I think)
14:52.22Twingy_ah
14:52.26Twingy_so 2 weeks
14:52.34``Erikyeah
14:52.40``Eriktook about a month to compress I think
14:52.45Twingy_k
14:52.54Twingy_that's non-optimal back up
14:53.03``Erik(you're not using bunzip2 in a way that'll unlink the compressed file, are you?)
14:53.04``ErikI know
14:53.13Twingy_I typed bunzip2 file
14:53.20``ErikI'm not sure what'd be better... I'm tempted to use gzip instead, it's quicker
14:53.27``Erikuhmmmm, that's destructive
14:53.42Twingy_you wanna do it then?
14:53.55``Erikthe decompression? sure *shurg*
14:53.58Twingy_you setup the backup doohicky
14:54.04Twingy_okay, I'll cancel
14:54.22Twingy_canceled
14:57.53Twingy_I'm thinking that if bill lost a file
14:58.00Twingy_he'd not be so flexible with 2 weeks to get it
15:00.00``Erikwell, if he 'lost a file', it'd take a day or two, because we could do a partial recovery on just the .2 or .3 file
15:00.10Twingy_ah
15:00.22Twingy_even the .2's are kind ahefty
15:00.33``Eriklosting a whole directory, however, is... rough
15:01.02Twingy_I'm definetly gonna have a tarball of my stuff made on the weekends
15:01.07``Erikokie
15:01.19Twingy_probly over nfs on my local box
15:01.33``Erikbecause of how big the file system is, there is no such thing as a "fast" recovery :(
15:01.45Twingy_for a file system, sure
15:02.10Twingy_I think the whole level N backuping is overkill *shrug*
15:02.33Twingy_99% of the time the person lost something and they want it back
15:03.32``Erikthe N level is to make things fast and use less space
15:04.02Twingy_all the n's combined uses alot more space than just making a tarball of everyone's junk on the weekends *shrug*
15:04.12``Erikum
15:04.28Twingy_plus we wouldn't have to use compression, which is the big killer
15:04.28``Erikour total consumption is like 2.5tb? weekend #2 would blow by that
15:04.43Twingy_I'm talking about 1 file per person
15:04.52``Erikweekend number 2 without compression would put us over 3tb
15:04.57Twingy_no weekend #2
15:05.00``Erikyeah, but we'd have a bunch of big files
15:05.07Twingy_huh?
15:05.12Twingy_no bigger than what we got now
15:05.18Twingy_my directory is like 70GB
15:05.25``Erikheh, mines not
15:05.29Twingy_I'd have a 70GB tarball of my directory as old as "last weekend"
15:05.43Twingy_take 10 minutes to uncompress
15:05.48Twingy_err
15:05.49Twingy_untar
15:05.59Twingy_instead of 2 weeks
15:06.08``Erikmebbe, but if you wrote a file on monday, and whacked it this morning?
15:06.09``Erik:)
15:06.15Twingy_I'd have something
15:06.32Twingy_losing 1 day of work is moot
15:06.39joevalleyfieldhow about no compression and no tarballs
15:06.41Twingy_losing 2 years of work is not
15:06.46``Eriko.O
15:06.53joevalleyfieldgoogle rsync backup
15:06.58``Erikuhhhh
15:07.05Twingy_heh
15:07.10Twingy_that's terribly amusing
15:07.37``ErikI'm not about to go through security to have every single file I ever touch or modify marked for public release, sorry
15:07.48joevalleyfieldno no
15:07.53joevalleyfielddon't rsync to google
15:08.05joevalleyfieldlookup "rsync backup" on google
15:08.15Twingy_we know what rsync is
15:08.19joevalleyfieldright
15:08.26Twingy_I implemented an rsync backup years ago
15:08.38Twingy_'sides
15:08.40joevalleyfieldso why the need for tarballs?
15:08.45Twingy_lee is the one that wants this incremental junk
15:08.50Twingy_because "it's the way we've done things"
15:09.01Twingy_and clearly the "wahy we've done things" is the best way
15:09.05``Erikdump/restore has some advantages
15:09.11Twingy_otherwise we wouldn't have 80's state of the art software
15:09.13Twingy_:)
15:09.21Twingy_yes it does
15:09.21``Erikheh
15:09.23Twingy_but I'm just ranting
15:09.56``Erikbecause the architects and requirements people only have experience with bad 70's style
15:09.56``Erik:(
15:09.56Twingy_I got you beat
15:10.01Twingy_I'm working on 90's state of the art
15:10.18Twingy_:P
15:10.52``Erikwe should probably go to get there by 11:30
15:10.57``Erikwe have to be back by 1 or so
15:11.02Twingy_for wwhat?
15:11.06``Erikjasons thing
15:11.10``Erikand the class thing
15:11.12Twingy_<PROTECTED>
15:11.17Twingy_oh, I'm not gonna go
15:11.23Twingy_I got too much stuff to get done
15:11.35``Erikwell, lets grab a couple people and go anyways
15:11.47Twingy_okie
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17:28.36brlcadjoevalleyfield: you're added now -- should be able to cvs up read/write now
17:28.46joevalleyfieldthanks
17:28.53joevalleyfieldthanks
17:29.53joevalleyfieldit blows up spectacularly when linked to the aqua tk and trying to play with x
17:29.57brlcadchatty, ain't he :)
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18:35.27Twingy_http://www.presidentialpetmuseum.com/Movies/Barney2.gif
18:51.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add an enable-automatic-flags option to enable/disable automatically messing with the CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS/LDFLAGS. Useful on systems with different compilers were flags might seem to work when they don't (like aix)
18:52.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: added configure option to leave flags alone
20:35.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the unRegisterWizardXmlCallback method
20:36.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: g_qa's -g option doesn't seem to work for anything except -g #
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21:16.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/IDEAS: some ideas for new BRL-CAD contributed by yours truely. could use lots of work, but it lets me throw away a piece of scrap paper.
21:31.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/IDEAS: formatting, spelling, reference the tasker too
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22:30.58pra5adHAH
22:31.03pra5adgot last copy of civ 4
22:31.07pra5adgoodbye life
22:42.57Twingyheh
22:48.46TwingyIT: Does Visual Studio Rot the Brain?
22:54.10``ErikO.o
22:54.22archivist_any visual button pressing does
23:02.46``ErikI saw a button once, but we were able to chase it from our village
23:22.12pra5adwow the load times are worse than an m3 analysis run
23:25.24pra5adso this is a python based game
23:32.26``ErikI doubt slow load times would be because it's a python based game
23:32.37``Erikslow load times tend to be developer stupidity.
23:40.31pra5adswapping the whole game out to load the military screen lol
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051027

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051027

00:05.43Twingymmm, yummy in my tummy
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00:10.04pra5adso fuckin choppy
00:10.11pra5adand im just above recommended specs
00:10.13pra5adwtf =(
00:12.21Twingywtfo
00:14.50``ErikO.o
00:20.19pra5adhahah lowest res, lowest gfx quality
00:20.34pra5adand it's still slow
00:20.53Twingy:)
00:21.04Twingysomone should give him a 486
00:21.09Twingyand tell him to make it fast
00:34.21pra5ad'never fight a land war in asia'
00:34.24pra5adso says civ 4
00:34.27pra5ado.o
00:37.00pra5adwhat the f
00:37.07pra5adat highest setting the games runs fine
00:37.13pra5ad#_#
00:37.26Twingyheh
01:09.08``Erikweee, broodwars
01:09.36``Erikcyrix
01:09.46``Erikwill it run on that? :D (civ4, I mean... I know broodwars does)
01:10.08Twingywith liquid nitrogen and quantum tunneling, yes
03:36.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (167 files in 14 dirs): moved all the geometry converter directories from src/. to src/conv/.
03:39.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: iges converter moved
03:42.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/iges.c: a single iges file didn't make it for some bizzare reason, manually move from src/iges to src/conv/iges
03:45.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (89 files): moved all the geometry converter directories from src/. to src/conv/.
03:46.14MaloeranSid Meier games only seem to be getting worse every year
03:52.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/strchr.c: strchr is provided via libsysv if it's not available
04:01.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (strdup.c Makefile.am): add strdup.c (moved from src/util)
04:02.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am strdup.c): moved strdup.c to src/libsysv/.
04:03.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (strchr.c strsep.c): header cleanup
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06:24.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: squash a ton of compiler warnings, fix a bug related to printing "" as the invalid units on -g, still doesn't parse the units/values correctly though
06:33.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: delimit on comma like the docs state, not on dash -- looks like a negative
06:34.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: delimit -g option with a comma, not a dash -- dash is indistinguishable from a negative sign
06:35.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS NEWS): fixed the g_qa tolerance option bug
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13:58.43brlcadheh
13:58.47Twingy_o.O
13:59.00Twingy_circlemud license sucks
13:59.21``Erikjust to test some of my software against... got a better mud in mind?
13:59.33``Erik(all your mud talk makes me wanna work on bmud again)
13:59.54Twingy_circle is the best I know of, but I'd write something from scratch before I built on it
14:00.05Twingy_you could reconstruct what circle has in a month
14:00.14``Erikagain, I'm just doing it to test my client software :)
14:00.30Twingy_brian is interseting :)
14:01.53``Erikheh, what's he doing now?
14:01.59``Erikshould I grab some popcorn and head down?
14:06.44``Eriksean, I abducted control of forge and created a sysadmin project... I'm going to imagine that you should create a 'mortal' account, so people don't start calling you 'admin' on the street :)
14:10.11brlcadi already have/had a mortal account
14:10.34``Erikah, hm, I tried adding your unix name to the project, said no such account
14:10.56``Erikand now I see why, you used your first name :)
14:12.04``Erik(or, uh, middle name, rather... :D )
14:12.21brlcad3.x (and maybe 4) won't let you create usernames that match existing system user names
14:12.35``Erikhrmmmmm
14:12.46brlcadso you have to either create the gforge account first, then the forge account or hack the db
14:12.54brlcador just pick another name, which I did
14:13.14``Erikthe 4 box just needs some mail stuff set up, right?
14:13.26brlcadyep, and the data import/migration
14:13.34brlcadyou have an account there, iirc
14:13.47``Erikmebbe I'll try to work on that today or tomorrow
14:14.32``Erik151 is freakin' evil
14:14.53``Erikand so is java *sigh* *loads idea*
14:15.32brlcad151?
14:15.38``Erikbacardi
14:15.43brlcadmmm
14:15.54Twingy_rocket fuel
14:15.55brlcadgot a bottle on you?
14:16.05``Erikplus stoli, plus saphire, plus beer, ...
14:16.12``Erik<-- rubs his head
14:16.17``Eriknope
14:16.20brlcadbah
14:16.23brlcad~lart ``Erik
14:16.24``Erikleft the explosive shit at home
14:16.43``Erikbut it is pretty cool pouring a shot, setting it on fire in the dark, then drinking it :D
14:17.06brlcadvery cultish
14:17.19brlcadcult of the bacardi
14:17.23``Erikjust need somethin' to chase with
14:17.38brlcadmore bacardi
14:17.45``Erikgold, maybe, not 151
14:50.23brlcadjoevalleyfield: if you want an account on a machine so you don't have to cgi:irc, let me know
14:56.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: have to link static due to librttherm.a, the aix linker, and duplicate symbols in optical/multispectral
14:58.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: cleanup new bot_faces target using COMMON, and utilize COMMON in ALLSRCS
14:59.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: 1 per line consistency for easier diff'ing as they change
15:17.45joevalleyfieldbrlcad: i would be thankful
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15:29.36brlcadjoevalleyfield: okie dokie
15:34.17brlcadafter lunch sometime
15:36.12joevalleyfieldi removed the -static flag from the builtin tk's makefile.am
15:36.18joevalleyfieldany idea which platform needed it?
15:36.44brlcadi'd have to read the cvs log
15:37.19joevalleyfieldit got there with a reorg
15:37.20joevalleyfieldhttp://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/other/libtk/Makefile.am?annotate=1.15
15:38.28joevalleyfieldbtclsh wasn't happy with it on here; linux didn't seem to mind though
16:51.12``Erikthat's alcohol abuse
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20:46.32Twingy_find any aluminum?
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21:28.22AchiestDragongrrrrr
21:39.21AchiestDragonhate it when that happens , updated to kde3.5beta2 a couple of days ago , then after 2 days of bug free use
21:40.08AchiestDragonand for no reason the sound system stopped working , and no way to recover it
21:41.28AchiestDragonso tryed downgradeing back to 3.4 , to find that the reinstall of that failed on a download , and then refused to start kde at all
21:41.55AchiestDragoncurrently reinstalling the compleate o/s  :(
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051028

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051028

00:06.48*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=brlcad@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
00:13.28brlcadAchiestDragon: ah, that sucks
00:14.30LostThePloto/s reinstalled , just installing the updates
00:50.01pra5adyeaaaah! found dreads
00:50.51``Erikswank
00:51.23brlcadyay pizza
00:51.50pra5adi need to raid goodwill tomorrow
00:52.31pra5adi couldnt find normal gold teef; got the buck tooth one with a diamond in it
00:58.21pra5adTwingy, howd ur meeting go
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01:01.49Twingyfine, got about halfway through in 10 minutes and decided to postpone till tommorrow
01:02.11pra5adi stole ur time slot
01:02.19Twingy...and the one after that
01:02.23pra5ad=)
01:02.34pra5adcell cpu research is a go
01:02.41pra5adtime to go find a cell dev kit
01:02.54Twingygood luck :)
01:03.25Twingymaybe in 5 years you'll have something the analysts can use
01:05.16pra5adexcellent point =)
01:06.58pra5adapparently dixie has an fem background
01:07.08pra5adfrom wmrd
01:08.40Twingytoo bad she doesn't have time/motivation to do something with it
01:09.05pra5adwe'll see
01:26.12``Erik"fem background" as in, she has ran the 70's cfd fortran code before?
01:26.20Twingyheh
01:26.28pra5adwendy was lacking detail
01:26.32Twingy:)
01:26.55Twingydetails shmetails
01:27.44``Erikarl isn't 180 degrees out of phase with the real world, but it's probably in the neighborhood of 90...
01:29.37Twingysomething like that
01:31.35TwingyI think by tommorrow I more or less will have things in order with my new program
01:31.43``Erikgas 2.28, booyeah
01:32.10``Erikchurchville 'xtra fuels', wawa there was 2.29
01:32.27*** join/#brlcad _AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
01:32.38Twingynot bad
01:33.12``Eriksee, if you were flying again, you'd be driving by these dirt cheap gas stations
01:33.14``Erik:D
01:33.44Twingyheh
01:33.48TwingyI will
01:33.52TwingyI think this spring
01:33.58TwingyI'm ready to get back into it for a third time
01:34.07Twingymeh, cars are boring
01:34.11``ErikI bought gloves, I may be ready by spring
01:34.20Twingyelectric or gas?
01:34.22``Erikyeah, but they frown on flying shit around the office
01:34.24``Erikgas
01:34.26``Erikof course
01:34.27``Erikwell
01:34.28``Erikhrm
01:34.32``Erikmebbe high performance electric
01:34.35TwingyI want that twin
01:34.36``Erikcharge 'em at work :D
01:34.38Twingywith tiny gas motors
01:34.44``Erikoh, planes? gas
01:34.50Twingyyah
01:34.51``ErikI got a .46 that needs to be broken in
01:34.56``Erikthe blue os
01:35.05``Erikbearings, even
01:35.07TwingyI that a .46 that's... broken... in :)
01:35.13Twingyseveral times in :)
01:35.20``Eriklike twice the hp of the .40 sleeved I was using
01:35.26Twingyyea
01:35.37``Erikwhich is why I bought leather gloves
01:35.49``Erikwith leather backings, none of those lame cotton backings
01:37.42``Erikhey, prasad, did I show you my finger pics?
01:38.00pra5adyes
01:38.34``Erik:D
02:01.10Twingyserver is up
02:01.31Twingyseems to be snappy agian
02:01.43Twingygood to go
02:01.45Twingyso anyway
02:01.51TwingyI'm thinking we should just leave it as is
02:01.56Twingythat wasn't so bad, an hour?
02:02.02Twingybetter than things getting fucked up with snap
02:02.11Twingy'sides this is the first time in how many months?
02:02.15Twingylike 7?
02:04.17``Eriktwingy, yesterdays new sotuhpark is on
02:05.39Twingyah
02:05.43Twingywhat time is it?
02:05.47``Eriknow
02:05.52Twingy10:06
02:05.53TwingyI'm mudding
02:05.58``Erikok, 6 minutes ago
02:05.59``Eriklog out
02:06.04``Eriksouthprak u up
02:06.05TwingyI'm close to level 100
02:06.12``Erik!!!~!#!~@!~@!~#!~
02:06.12Guu``Erik: But I am le-tired.
02:06.26Twingyheh
02:06.33Twingy!!!~!#!~@!~@!~#!~
02:06.34GuuTwingy: WTF?
02:06.41Twingy!!!~!#!~@!~@!~#!~
02:06.42GuuTwingy: Poke me there again, and you'll pull back a stump.
02:06.43``Erikanother shot of 151 says oh fuck yeah
02:06.53Twingyheh
02:06.58Twingyfinish the bottle yet? :)
02:07.05``Erikno, heh
02:07.05brlcadheh
02:07.09``Erikthat shit is brutal
02:07.17Twingymy bottle lasted 4 months?
02:07.21``ErikI'm not even 1/2 yet
02:07.27``Erikshit, I don't think I'm 1/4 yet
02:07.42``Erikyeah, twingy, but you're a puss
02:07.44``Erik:D
02:07.46Twingythe bottle has enough to get me piss drunk 10 times over
02:07.47``ErikO:)
02:07.59Twingythen again I don't drink like a fish
02:08.14``Erikgiven that it's 17 shots, at twice the normal content, so equivelantly
02:08.15``Erikuh
02:08.17``Erik34?
02:08.20``Erikshots?
02:08.26Twingyyah
02:08.32``Erikmeans you're a 3.4 shot drunk
02:08.40Twingythat's about 10 sakes?
02:08.54``Eriksake varies a lot
02:08.59Twingywell, the stuff we had
02:09.03``Erikheh
02:09.05``Erikmebbe
02:09.15``Erikmebbe more sakes...
02:09.18TwingyI think 3.4 shots and I'd be comfortably num
02:09.20Twingynumb
02:09.23``Erikthe shit we had wasn't all that great
02:09.31Twingyfar better than previous years
02:09.47``ErikI think I got more of a buzz from the social significance than the alcohol
02:09.48Twingycombined
02:10.04``Erikcheapassed american sake *shakes fist*
02:10.18Twingythat was jap no?
02:10.38``ErikDUDE, sp, butters is "margarine", who likes getting "her" snootch pouted on friday night
02:10.43``Erikno, it was cali, dude
02:10.54``Erikyou musta been swimmin' that night :)
02:11.13Twingyaha, level 100
02:11.16``Erikcalifornian sake *shudder*
02:11.29*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
02:11.46``Erikah, look, a dorque :D
02:13.25Twingyk, I'll go watch
02:34.54pra5adrofl civ4 just bsod and restart the box
02:42.48brlcadquality
02:55.33Twingythat was amusing
02:55.50Twingysounds like ole' Sid is slacking off
04:11.47pra5adohhh i just found baghdad
04:11.58pra5adtime for operation iraqi freedom
04:12.38Twingyget get'em tiger
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06:31.41peterson_hui
06:31.44peterson_i mean, hi :)
06:32.15dhpetersonjust starting with brlcad
06:32.25dhpetersondoes anyone know of a good reference to CSG
06:32.35dhpeterson(constructive solid geometry)
06:33.05dhpetersonspecifically I am trying to understand the relative effectiveness of building models using CSG vs building models in other (CAD) ways
06:33.29dhpetersonfor example, from what i know of pro/e, it supports more of a "parametrized" solid geomery model, rather than CSG
06:33.40dhpetersoni would like some pointers to references if possible
06:35.22*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable084.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca)
12:29.05*** join/#brlcad joevalleyfield (n=803f3e3d@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:20.54*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
13:25.20*** join/#brlcad Twingy_ (n=justin@pcp0011647505pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
13:30.40``Erikyarhg.
13:30.53Twingy_Arrrr
13:31.35brlcadyou guys missed talk like a pirate day
13:31.49brlcad``Erik: how's the stomach lining holding out?
13:31.54``Erikstill there
13:31.56``Erikwhy? :)
13:32.16Twingy_cause you've got a big wet spot on your shirt
13:33.29Twingy_hrm
13:33.35Twingy_I recnk'n that logo meeting will end soon
13:33.51``Erikheh, fucking retarded waste of time and money.
13:33.58Twingy_*nod*
13:35.27Twingy_haha
13:35.33Twingy_George Takei, 'Trek's' Sulu: I'm gay
13:35.46Twingy_George Takei and his partner have been together for 18 years.
13:35.57``Erikmr... sulu........ set course.... for..... the closet..... sector....
13:36.25Twingy_beam me up scotty, up scotty, UP SCOTTY, err uhh
13:36.59Twingy_woo
13:37.02Twingy_Huricane Beta
13:37.11Twingy_That one should hid redmond
13:37.17Twingy_making the world a better place
13:39.49``Erikhttp://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=592933&size=o heh
13:52.13brlcadheh
14:20.13Twingy_hey mal
15:32.53Twingy_logos, wee
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16:49.54*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
17:06.41brlcadjoevalleyfield: ping
17:17.36``Erikthey all suck o.O
17:18.51``Erikhehehehe (define (ccor a b) (call/cc (lambda (x) (if a (x #t)) (if b (x #t)) #f)))
17:21.14brlcad#f ?
17:23.25brlcadjust compiles a or b, no?
17:24.45``Eriksorta, but with some stack manipulation, controlled intrepretted short circuit
17:25.54``Erikso if you do (or (some wonk) (someother crap)), it evalutates (some wonk) and (someother crap), then does an or, this ccor does (some wonk), tests the result, then continues execution if decidable, or computes the someother if not
17:26.23``Erik#f is the 'default' clause
17:26.35brlcadso like a no-op
17:27.11*** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=a8b0a00d@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:27.14``ErikI coulda done (x #f) to follow form, but it falls through ok
17:27.43brlcadthat's effectively providing C-style or's which is a little twisted, but funny ;)
17:27.50``Erikayup
17:33.15``Eriktwingy, two drivers reporting degraded now
17:35.32Twingy_same controller?
19:08.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: since autogen.sh is a succint step, presume that we simply want to end up with the same COPYING and INSTALL that we started with, so restore from backup if they change regardless of the current revision
19:25.03*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
21:48.09``Erik*yawn*
22:14.58pra5adYEEEAAAAAAAH
22:36.06``Erikheh
22:36.25``Erikwe expect pictures on monday.
23:41.23*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051029

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051029

02:28.07*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (i=0@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
03:11.06DTRemenakthe in-tree copy of jove fails to compile for me.  seems to be because _GNU_SOURCE gets defined by configure.  adding an appropriate #undef to jove.h fixes it, but I dunno what you folks would prefer.
03:12.31brlcadhmm
03:12.49brlcadjove is not really a huge concern, whatever makes it work ;)
03:12.54DTRemenakheh
03:13.09brlcadit's one of the few where not even the warnings are quelled
03:13.21DTRemenakI'm somewhat curious why it's required, actually
03:13.47brlcadthat's history that goes back a LONG ways
03:13.55DTRemenakheh :)
03:14.20brlcadpreinternet days, pre networked machines often
03:15.12brlcadit was so when brl-cad was installed on a system that had no editor or at least no decent editor, there would be at least jove (some brl-cad functions require editing files, so ..)
03:15.29brlcadjove is basically a very stripped down version of emacs
03:15.38brlcad"jonathans own version of emacs"
03:16.07DTRemenakah.  and it's kept around why? :)
03:16.25brlcadthese days, it's included mainly because there are a slew of old brl-cad users that grew up with it, rely on it, and expect it
03:16.34brlcadand try to take an editor away from a zealot..
03:17.04brlcadi pulled it once, instantly heard complaints :)
03:17.14DTRemenakheh :)
03:17.35brlcadso now it builds only if it doesn't detect a jove installed (you can disable it of course too)
03:17.53brlcadodd that _GNU_SOURCE would be an issue
03:18.36DTRemenakgetline is defined by stdio.h if _GNU_SOURCE is defined
03:18.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03dtremenak * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove.h: jove.h conflicts with stdio.h if _GNU_SOURCE is defined. make sure it's not.
03:18.44DTRemenaka different getline is defined by jove.h
03:18.57brlcadah
03:24.11*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (i=0@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
04:07.27*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
04:09.21DTRemenakdo_subfigs.c:38:28: ../librt/debug.h: No such file or directory
04:10.58DTRemenakseems to be ../../librt/debug.h
04:12.04brlcadeh?
04:12.19brlcadwhat system is this?
04:12.58DTRemenakSlackware Linux 10.2.  Linux dtremenak 2.4.31 #6 Sun Jun 5 19:04:47 PDT 2005 i686 unknown unknown GNU/Linux
04:13.33brlcadahh, slack -- haven't had hands on that in ages
04:13.52DTRemenakdo_subfigs is in src/conv/iges.  have to go up two levels to get to librt.
04:13.57brlcadand that iges directory was _just_ moved yesterday
04:14.01DTRemenakahh
04:14.03brlcadhaven't tested extensively
04:14.17DTRemenak"haven't tested extensively" -> "haven't built"? :)
04:14.22brlcadit used to be in src/iges, now in src/conv/iges with the other converters
04:14.32brlcadwell, you know how that goes with me sometimes :)
04:14.44brlcadI thought I did :)
04:15.53DTRemenakgetting the same thing from jack
04:16.50brlcadmaybe it's cause I did a make test after the build targets were already created.. :)
04:16.57brlcadjack is another converter
04:17.04DTRemenakyup
04:17.08DTRemenakmoved at the same time?
04:17.10brlcadas are all the subdirs in conv/
04:17.15brlcadyep -- all of them
04:17.38DTRemenakthose are the only two that complained.  perhaps the others don't include librt/debug.h
04:18.24DTRemenakor maybe it's not done
04:21.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (8 files in 3 dirs): fix relative include paths after the move to src/conv (thanks dtr)
04:21.52DTRemenakheh.  I knew that would happen.  cvs commit: Up-to-date check failed for `iges/do_subfigs.c'
04:22.00brlcadhehe, sorry
04:22.05brlcadshoulda said something
04:22.59DTRemenakg-iges.c:71:29: ../../iges/iges.h: No such file or directory
04:23.11DTRemenaknot all the relative paths are wrong :)
04:23.28brlcadtypo :)
04:24.05brlcadyeah, only made that mistake once
04:24.11brlcadshould be just ./iges.h
04:24.18DTRemenakah, ok
04:24.20brlcadme or you got it? :)
04:25.00DTRemenaklooks like you also missed the ones in jack
04:25.21brlcadi did?!
04:25.31DTRemenakone of them
04:25.44DTRemenakin g-jack.c
04:25.46DTRemenakI got them
04:25.59brlcadah, yeah i see it
04:26.04brlcadmissed the line in emacs output
04:26.13brlcadeyes are cross-eyeing
04:26.31brlcadprobably shouldn't commit after all this wine
04:26.52DTRemenakheh :)
04:27.16brlcadbut i gather if I can still type, can't be that bad ;)
04:27.47DTRemenakhaven't noticed any bad typing mistakes yet :)
04:28.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03dtremenak * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (iges/g-iges.c jack/g-jack.c): librt is two levels away. iges is one level away.
04:28.08brlcadsaving a major commit of new code for tomorrow
04:28.52DTRemenakwhat fun
04:28.59DTRemenakanything interesting?
04:29.42brlcadsomewhat
04:30.07brlcaddepends on what you want, for you perhaps not :)
04:30.38brlcadwe have access to some equipment, actually it's surveying equipment
04:30.48brlcadvery high precision stuff, 40k pricetags and whatnot
04:30.51DTRemenakcool
04:31.12brlcadyou set the system up, calibrate and have this variable length staff/pole with sensors on it
04:31.44brlcadthe system knows where a tip of the pole is in 3-space and you can acquire highly precise 3d points with it
04:32.19brlcadthis code lets you take sets of that point data acquired in a predetermined manner and automatically create geometry from it
04:32.59brlcadlike for a sheet of metal, you'd collect points on the contour of the object, and then a depth point -- that is automatically converted into geometry in the cad system on import
04:33.06DTRemenakah, nifty
04:33.15brlcadvery cool, huge timesaver for reverse-modeling
04:33.57brlcadwhich is a pretty darn common need surprisingly enough
04:34.51DTRemenakwhy is it so common?  do people just not keep their original design files around?
04:35.40brlcadhuge disconnects between modelers, vendors, contractors, manufacturers, etc
04:36.04DTRemenakah
04:36.06brlcadeveryone wants major $$ to provide for whatever the other guy needs
04:36.17brlcadso rarely is stuff just shared
04:36.37brlcadespecially if the terms aren't built into the contracts, which are very often the case
04:36.41DTRemenakso instead, they spend $$ on equipment to figure it out? :)
04:37.04brlcaddifferent scale of "major" $$
04:37.27brlcada 5 digit piece of equipment is "cheap" in that context
04:37.33DTRemenakyeah, I know.  just muttering about waste.  you know me and efficiency.
04:37.40brlcadyeah
04:58.17*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-178.client.mchsi.com)
04:59.32*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-178.client.mchsi.com)
05:24.46maheshSean, had a question
05:45.54brlcadmahesh: fire away
05:46.00maheshoh there you are
05:46.02brlcadmahesh: great to hear about the progress!
05:46.10brlcadsounded excellent!
05:46.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: just reference current dir instead of up and down to iges dir
05:48.36maheshin worker.c, there is cur_pixel and last_pixel
05:49.04maheshbasically, do_pixel is called for each pixel from cur_pixel to last_pixel
05:49.29maheshbut even if i set both of them to 0, the program seems to be running fine
05:49.43maheshthat is, the image is being created
05:49.56maheshwhy is that? it should not have created the image right?
05:51.48brlcadhmm
05:53.51brlcadi can see setting both to zero could be troublesome
05:53.58brlcadit's not meant to be called with "no work" to do
05:54.16brlcadso probably the per_processor_chunk lets it skip the check
05:54.36maheshoh
05:55.33maheshanother thing i tried was
05:55.42brlcadtest out real bounds like setting cur_pixel to half the image, and last to last pixel
05:56.03maheshok
05:56.32brlcadyou also realize, I hope, that brl-cad uses first-quadrant image coordinates
05:56.44brlcadi.e. 0,0 is left bottom corner of the image
05:57.44maheshwhere is this x and y coordinates here....cur_pixel is 0 and last_pixel is 262143 for the model i am working on
05:58.28maheshper_processor_chunk number of them is being assigned to each processor
05:59.06brlcadcur_pixel would be bottom-left pixel at 0, 262143 would be the last pixel in the default image size in the top-right corner
06:00.04maheshok..got it
06:00.35maheshdo you know how exactly this code runs on smp machine
06:00.48maheshsay, i am running on dual processor machine
06:00.59brlcadpretty much, though I still read code for reference ;)
06:01.37maheshis main() which is the starting point of execution run by both processors?
06:01.48brlcadno
06:02.03brlcadinside bu_parallel is where the multi-execution begins
06:02.04maheshok...because in mpi that is how it works
06:02.25brlcadright
06:02.34maheshi have to use some conditions to make only one processor start it
06:03.08maheshnone of the other processors come into picture till the worker function is called right?
06:03.32brlcadyou could let them all run with exactly the same task specification, but recognize a designated host as the controller
06:04.24brlcadsay, for example, if you have them all check if current node == node that initiated the job (or node specified on the command line, whatever) then talk to that node for getting tasks of work
06:04.56brlcadthe alternative, like you mention, is to have just one exec that invokes all of the mpi nodes into action
06:05.15brlcadi initially was thinking the latter too (and it would make for a more maintainable application)
06:05.47brlcadbut if it's too difficult, then I'd just as quickly ditch it ;)  more important to get functioning first than it is to get functioning beautifully ;)
06:06.39maheshtrue...i really want to get some stuff working
06:06.39brlcadand to answer your question, yes -- none of the other processors come into the picture until worker is called (except that prepr can be performend in parallel too, but that's a minor detail)
06:07.14brlcadsounds like you're making progress from what you wrote
06:07.48maheshlittle bit, i think
06:08.37maheshok, one last question for the day
06:09.54maheshassume that controller gave chunks of pixels to each node. They all called do_pixel on each pixel they received
06:10.21brlcadokay
06:11.03maheshto perform do_pixel, dont they have to have populated application structure or tree structure whatever
06:11.24brlcadby the way, this is sort of what I envisioned in a simplistic tutorial view of how it'd communicate to a single node for requesting work:  http://www.lam-mpi.org/tutorials/one-step/ezstart.php
06:12.26maheshoh wow....thanks for the link
06:13.24brlcadalternatively, something like http://www.lam-mpi.org/tutorials/one-step/collectives.php for distributing the full job to everyone and negotiating who works on what via the scatter/reduction
06:13.48brlcadone of those two should be considerably easier than the other ;)
06:14.09brlcadnot sure which.. the first has setup issues, the other has communication issues
06:14.58maheshit should be fun, i will be look into it
06:14.59brlcadto perform do_pixel, it will need to have performed an rt_dirbuild and a prep
06:15.28maheshgood. i was right..just wanted to confirm
06:15.31brlcadso you'll need to communicate the .g data to the remote hosts
06:15.41brlcadand prep each one independently
06:16.19brlcadthat cost is pretty much fixed per model per node
06:16.40maheshand once they are done with do_pixel, there will be RGB values right which they have to give it back to controller?
06:16.50brlcadthough you can amortize that cost over multiple simultaneous frames (e.g. animations)
06:17.02brlcadyes, exactly
06:17.26brlcadthe rgb values will be the result that has to get passed back to the controler so it can piece it all together
06:17.47maheshand that is in a_color or something like that
06:17.53brlcadyep
06:19.39maheshweekend will be fun with this!
06:19.42brlcadafter every single pixel it calls view_pixel() inside do_pixel() and for each line, it calls view_eol()
06:20.09brlcaddo_pixel is of course called by worker()
06:20.30maheshdo i have to take care of those things (that is view_pixel and view_eol)?
06:21.02brlcadno, you shouldn't have to I wouldn't think though you could
06:21.13brlcadi'd suggest you don't just to minimize impact ;)
06:22.03brlcadbut what you ultimately need to get the mpi going might make that a more complicated task, dunno.. ;)
06:22.47maheshwell, actually speaking, i should right? because do_pixel running on remote machine means view_pixel also is on remote machine but view_pixel should be called on local machine
06:23.15maheshor may be i got it wrong
06:23.33brlcadno you got it right
06:24.01brlcadbut you don't necessarily need to replace view_pixel()
06:24.25maheshok
06:24.32brlcadmaybe just do_pixel.. and do_pixel sends results back .. or buffers then and worker() sends them back
06:25.30maheshyeah
06:25.55maheshwhen do you sleep?
06:26.06brlcadwhat's that? :)
06:26.11maheshha ha
06:26.19maheshits 1:25
06:26.35brlcadit's 2:30am here now
06:26.52maheshoh EST
06:28.34brlcadi'll be lively and sober again in a few hours
06:28.59brlcadprobably 6 or 7 your time
06:29.48maheshmy day will be ruined if i get up at 6 or 7
06:31.23brlcadwell, feel free to just sit and idle -- I read the log
06:31.42brlcadi'll answer you directly, or to memoserv or via e-mail eventually
06:31.50maheshok
06:32.03maheshthanks for clarifying all my doubts
06:32.08brlcadno problem
06:32.13brlcadgreat work on the progress
06:32.30maheshthanks
06:32.48brlcadprobably a good first step is to distribute the .g file from a single master to all the others via mpi
06:33.08brlcadand prep all of the remote using this .g
06:33.45brlcador just presume they all have disk access (is it common in a cluster to have distributed filesystem access?)
06:34.07maheshnot necessarily
06:34.36brlcadso yeah, some mpi-means to transfer the .g for prep
06:35.19maheshi shall do it that way
06:37.26brlcadprobably can work out some sort of mpi tricks in that case since any peer that has the portion you need will serve just as well as the master node
06:37.52brlcada broadcast scatter/gather of some sort
06:38.21maheshi have ideas about that, but i want to use them only after i get this initial stuff done
06:38.34brlcadwell, hope to hear how it goes :)
06:38.36brlcadgood luck
06:40.27maheshthanks
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17:45.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: revert tk back in, the lib uses tk extensively so it needs to be on the list
17:48.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: try making the libs consistent between bwish and btclsh to get around symbol and run-time issues
18:58.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/Makefile.am: don't link libtk static, causes trouble in libtclcad on altix where non-PIC get included which causes an ld failure.
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21:29.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/ (main.c points_parse.y points_scan.l process.c process.h):
21:29.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: initial files for a points file parser that reads them all in and processes
21:29.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: groups of them at a time based on recognized line labels. data collected in a
21:29.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: requisite order may then be automatically turned into geometry using a tclscript
21:29.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: helper code.
21:30.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/ (count.c count.h): generic counting routines for reporting parse/scan statistics
21:30.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/Makefile.am: initial Makefile.am for building a utility library to be used by mged for reading point files
21:31.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the makefile for src/mged/points
21:31.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: traverse into the points subdir too
21:32.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.h cmd.c): export the cmd_parse_points routine for parsing point files
21:33.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgview.c: comment cleanup, several functions have disappeared or been renamed
21:34.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: there is no f_edit()
21:36.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/Makefile.am: wrong fast objects list, no sense just making it static -- libtool will figure it out
21:39.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: initial points tclscript for generating geometry based on sets of points being processed in certain styles, written by lee -- works in conjunction with the src/mged/points library that parses the points from a given file
21:39.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: include the points.tcl file
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23:04.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/ (main.c process.h): header file is named points_parse.h now
23:04.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/Makefile.am: designate the BUILT_SOURCES so that they are generated first
23:09.31brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:28.21PrezKennedyhey its goin well
23:28.28PrezKennedybit tired
23:31.15brlcadhow's the site work been going?
23:31.29brlcador have you been doing other stuff
23:32.47PrezKennedyits going ok other than all the annoying limitations at sourceforge
23:33.05brlcadif you've got some time, there's something else I'd like you to work on if you're interested that's not website-related
23:33.14PrezKennedyok what is it
23:33.51brlcadremember the docs I mentioned earlier
23:33.57PrezKennedyyeah
23:34.03brlcadthere are several that I'd like to make
23:34.10PrezKennedyok
23:34.44brlcadone being a history of the package, the other a current overview of what's in the package now
23:35.11brlcadthe latter is something that would really be useful
23:35.26brlcadand wouldn't be too difficult to put together
23:35.36PrezKennedycan i put it together using the info already up?
23:36.29brlcadsure
23:36.41brlcadit can all go onto a web page, or into a spreadsheet
23:36.48brlcador even into a simple text file for that matter
23:37.22PrezKennedyjok ill get on that tonight
23:37.27brlcadit'd be a mini database of all the tools and libraries, with a short description of each one
23:38.09brlcadthere's over 400 tools and about 2 dozen libraries to describe
23:38.36PrezKennedyyeah i knew there were a lot
23:38.50PrezKennedywhere can i find out what each does?
23:39.18brlcadkeep in mind any information that might be useful to an outsider, try to come up with a set of categories too like "image converter", "geometry converter", "geometry tool", "data processing tool", "framebuffer I/O tool", etc
23:39.31PrezKennedyok
23:40.05brlcadyou'll need a source download of the package, and perhaps a binary one too just to get a list of what's installed
23:40.33brlcadabout 1/4th have man pages
23:40.54brlcadso those should be pretty easy, just copy the description line out of there, maybe clean up the engrish ;)
23:41.16PrezKennedyengrish is the best
23:41.57brlcadfor the others, there's usually a line or two description at the top of their source files, or they have a usage statement
23:42.09PrezKennedyok
23:42.27brlcada spreadsheet or database probably will work best for being able to go back and see what's known and what's not
23:48.03AchiestDragonis cvs buildable at the moment   , or would i be better waiting before doing a cvs up ?
23:49.01brlcadAchiestDragon: I'd suggest waiting just a little bit to make sure you don't get an update in the middle of a commit with the 5 hour anonymous cvs window and all
23:49.12brlcadbut yes, it should be buildable
23:49.17AchiestDragonk
23:49.26brlcadeasy enough to try ;)
23:50.11AchiestDragon:) just better to ask with all the commits going in , dont want to get some that need another thats ont yet entered
23:51.57brlcadin general, when there's a slight lull, it's safe and working ;)
23:52.11brlcadbut not a bad idea
23:53.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
23:53.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: itcl doesn't need to include the include directory, in fact it causes problems
23:53.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: since it can pick up our itcl.h which picks up our tcl.h which requires common.h
23:53.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: which requires HAVE_CONFIG_H to be defined which causes problems. (thanks Stefan
23:53.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: Fiedler) in face, don't add include to our overall cppflags either since
23:53.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: autoheader is supposed to take care of this in the makefiles
23:55.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed itcl configuration issue
23:56.23*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (i=agent007@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051030

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051030

01:15.56``Erik*yawn*
02:08.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/trimsurf.c: Convtrimsurfs() was calling nmg_km() when it shouldn't
02:11.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nmg.c: rt_nmg_export5() broke out of loop too early. Changed "break" into an if block
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05:43.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed bug in dxf-g and nmg export
06:23.14pra5adwell then
06:23.18pra5adlil john was a hit
06:23.26pra5adneed to bug ppl for pix
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15:09.45``Erik*yawn*
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18:22.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added los and material name support to librtserver
18:35.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: point parsing/import interface to mged
18:37.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/Makefile.am: jove must come after termlib (fixes sf bug 1342352 from nohn)
20:36.07AchiestDragon:(
20:36.10AchiestDragonconfig.status: error: cannot find input file: src/conv/comgeom/Makefile.in
20:38.33AchiestDragonafter cvs up
20:39.08AchiestDragonthe dir src/conv/comgeom is present in the tree but empty
20:42.49brlcadAchiestDragon: update -dP ?
20:44.46brlcadif you did update -dP, then anonymous is just lagging, but it should have those updates by now
20:45.51AchiestDragondid >cvs up     first ,, just tryed  > cvs up -dP   ,, and still get same error on ./configure
20:46.26brlcaddid cvs update -dP update files?
20:46.47AchiestDragonyes
20:47.05AchiestDragonthe up is to update isnt it
20:47.09brlcadgood, then you'll need to ./autogen.sh again since there are new/modified Makefile.ams
20:47.28brlcadyes up == update
20:52.07AchiestDragon:)  
20:54.18brlcadyou have to run autogen.sh or autoreconf anytime a Makefile.am is added or changes
20:54.56AchiestDragonis used to kde where its >  make -f Makefile.cvs
20:55.31``Eriko.O
20:56.04brlcadheh
20:56.28brlcadi suppose we could add such a makefile, but it's generally more common to just reautogen in projects
20:57.02``Erikheh, or gmake and let it autoregen for you
20:58.55brlcadgmake doesn't run it for you.. the makefile has rules to update them if configure/autoconf detected a gnu make
20:59.23brlcadand detected the tools necessary
20:59.42``Erikmeh, functionally equivelant
21:00.02``Erikupdate Makefile.am, run gmake, automake is run *shrug*
21:00.17AchiestDragonnp as long as theres a way ,
21:00.46``Erikautomake-1.9, for example, does nto exist on fbsd, it's automake19 ...
21:01.29``Erikand i'm not quite sure who to shake my fist at... gnu for sucking, or fbsd for cockblocking
21:01.50``Erikheh
21:01.59brlcadeither/both should be a little more accommodating
21:02.02``Erikindeed
21:02.42``Erikthe gnu guys imagine that everyone is using gnu/linux, and the fbsd guys consider autoconf an unnecessary burden, since everyone should be using fbsd
21:02.44AchiestDragonprefer the ./configure ,, make ,, make install, way its what im used to , if its ./autogen.sh first then fine
21:03.12brlcadAchiestDragon: it's only autogen.sh first because you are working out of CVS
21:03.16``Erik"configure && make && make install" is a post-developer type setup... if you grab the tarball of brlcad, it's that way
21:03.24brlcadif you download a source tarball, it's just ./configure make make install
21:03.39AchiestDragonyes understand that
21:03.52``Erikand it's a whole hell of a lot better than "cake" imho
21:03.54brlcadall configure-based projects are that way
21:04.10brlcadyep
21:04.41``Erik*sigh* I used to do valuable things before this damn m3 project. :(
21:05.10``Erikand I can't convince justin to step out and say "I need erik's help for blah
21:13.22``Eriko.O
21:15.44AchiestDragongetting alot of :-
21:15.56AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
21:17.57brlcadnot important
21:35.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: see if they have sched.h (aix fix)
21:35.26``Erikheh
21:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: include sched.h if it's available instead of sys/sched.h (aix fix)
21:53.24AchiestDragonwell compiled and now running ok
21:53.39AchiestDragonstill no archer for linux
21:57.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed jove compilation issues
21:59.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 9 dirs): remove C++-style // comments as there's no assumption of c99 compiler compliance yet, only c89 (mostly aix compiler though other old compilers too)
21:59.45brlcadAchiestDragon: when you see commit messages about merging bobWinPort to HEAD will be when archer starts to appear ;)
21:59.57AchiestDragonk :)
22:14.53AchiestDragonanother bug ?
22:15.39AchiestDragonhttp://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/snapshot11.png   < graphics window does not update while error message is beeing displayed
22:17.15brlcadnot exactly a bug, but certainly bad/undesirable behavior
22:40.20``ErikI'm under the impression that nmg stuff is ass buggy
22:41.04brlcadsome bugs
22:41.07brlcadlots of complexity
22:41.24``Erikit's the part that handles facetization, right?
22:41.33brlcadthe complexity gets it more than anything, lots of cases not accounted for (as they were never encountered during development)
22:42.03brlcadso they are encountered finally, and then bad things happen "sometimes" (sometimes not too)
22:42.15brlcadyeah, that's what handles facetization
22:42.26``Erikwhich is ass slow and buggy... :D *duck*
22:43.40``ErikO.o
22:44.01``Erikand losing half your geometry during teh 2nmg pass is uncool
22:44.19``Erikif only someone had the time to fix it...
22:46.05brlcadwell, the alternative in those cases is abort or crash
22:46.23brlcadsince it was something unknown
22:46.40brlcadit is ass slow and buggy
22:47.06``Erikpersonally, I'd favor noise abort, with a flag to force 'bad data' to be allowed
22:47.10``Eriknoisey, even
22:47.23``Erikloss of data is a cardinal sin o.O
22:47.49brlcadit's not bad data though - just don't know how to handle it (yet)
22:48.10brlcadand not converting anything is generally even less useful than converting something :)
22:48.14``Erikwell, it's a loss of data
22:48.46``Erikif I convert object X to object Y, and Y is missing big honkin' chunks, what use was the conversion?
22:48.49brlcaddata's already being "lost" because we're going from an implicit model to an explicit one
22:49.20``Eriktrue, it's coarser by necessity, but when entire regions simply vanish...?
22:49.39brlcadthe use is that you can always convert subportions when a higher level might fail
22:50.06brlcadso even if a portion is missing, I could figure out which that was, and export that one individually
22:50.40brlcad(which was the process in the past when there wasn't time to debug)
22:50.50``Erik*shrug* i'm still brlcad illiterate, so'z all I can see is "lots of shit is missing"
22:54.04brlcadmaybe i'll beat mike to reimplementing a new tesselator  *cough*
22:54.16``Erik<-- looks at the clock
22:54.17brlcadhe's somewhat tasked with that indirectly via meshing
22:54.24``Erikbetter step to that, you only have, um
22:54.26``Erik20 or so years
22:54.53``ErikI thought he was tasked with a voxel generator?
22:55.24``Erikextracting voxel info from brlcad geometry might take a whole 2 hours? the hard part is writing to the "common" format
22:55.47brlcaddepends who you ask and for what
22:56.05brlcadfem analysis is the base need
22:56.08``Erikwhat's the voxel format lee decided is necessary? starts with n?
22:56.26brlcadvoxels is stuff lee's thinking is sufficient
22:56.49brlcadthough hardly _any_ fem codes prefer regularly gridded meshes
22:57.15``Erikheh
22:57.19brlcadyou just don't get good energy simulation/propagation with regularlized voxel grids
22:57.34brlcadmost use adaptive tetrahedral meshes
22:57.42``Erikcutting edge is mixed tetrahedron and hexahedron mesh with an active wall
22:57.50brlcadyeah
22:58.18``ErikI tried to tell wendy that I'd be perfect for the fem shit
22:58.20``Eriko.O
22:59.02brlcadi don't think the direction he's suggesting is a good one at all, rather nieve direction really but who knows, it might be sufficient
22:59.08brlcadeven if it's inherintly wrong
22:59.14brlcador utterly inefficient
22:59.27``Erikwho, lee?
22:59.44brlcadwho else
22:59.52``Erik<-- swigs more flammable shit
22:59.53``Eriko.O
23:00.11``Erikhm, "chronicles of riddick" is on tv
23:00.30``Eriksometimes lee has a good idea, but I think they may be diamonds in a turd pile
23:00.44brlcadthere were several excellent meshing papers at solid modeling, he's totally ignoring current research
23:00.55``Erikbut at least when proven wrong, he's willing to admit he was wrong, no?
23:01.01``Erikunlike... many....
23:01.02``Erik:)
23:01.10brlcad:)
23:01.30brlcadalso not that the person tasked will be able to implement any of the latest ideas
23:01.53brlcador even what's currently being suggested
23:01.59``Erikhe also provides an effective and astonishing level of protection for those under him, I didn't realize to what extent until after the 'team split'
23:01.59brlcadwithout lots of help
23:02.29``Erikif by "help" you mean someone doing for him... :D
23:03.20``Erikhe might actually have some ability, I've just never seen him actually produce
23:03.47brlcadhe's good at fast solutions to a specific problem
23:03.54``Erik(he who? I mean mg)
23:04.01brlcadmight not be maintainable, or readable, or extensible
23:04.13brlcadbut it usually works, and works well enough for what was needed at the time ;)
23:04.26brlcadand didn't take too long to implement
23:04.37brlcadat least if we're talking code
23:05.16brlcadahh, i didnt mean him of course if it wasn't obvious.. ;)
23:06.41``Erikfigured, heh
23:07.12``Erik<-- watches chronicles of riddick and waits for his tamales and margarita
23:51.29AchiestDragongiven current situation here  , going to have to spend some time securing the firewall , and getting up to date on net securaty
23:52.08AchiestDragonand find out what legal action i can take against yahoo :(
23:52.57AchiestDragondam spammers
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051031

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051031

00:11.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs): consistent casting of the nmg_visit state pointers, don't need a double pointer (genptr_t IS a pointer already!)
00:20.15AchiestDragonwas getting spam advertizing yahoo geocitys sites , so emails yahoo , it stoped  but
00:21.51AchiestDragonthen startes getting lots of email returned notices from diferent places , so thay stoped sending me email but are spoofing my email addresses for sending there spam
00:21.59AchiestDragonso emailed them over this
00:22.08``Erikheh... "shit! I hate not being the bad guys"
00:22.11AchiestDragonnow getting viruses in my emais
00:22.21AchiestDragonso its time for legal action
00:23.11AchiestDragonglad there win32 viruses , so thay dont work in linux but thats not the point
00:23.26AchiestDragonwhat next ? :(
01:36.27PrezKennedyAchiestDragon, are you positive its actually yahoo? its not hard to spoof an email address
01:38.31AchiestDragonas far as i know , the emails recived today that came with the virus are titled   re:yahoo!
01:39.52PrezKennedyuhh... that means nothing
01:41.59AchiestDragonwhat gets me is normaly if a machine of someone i know gets a virus it sends 1 copy out to everyone on the mailing list
01:42.36AchiestDragonim getting multiple emails with viruses from the same spoofed email
01:43.00PrezKennedywelcome to my life
01:43.07PrezKennedyexcept i get them everyday
01:43.15PrezKennedyon the order of 20+
01:44.37AchiestDragonmy g/f managed to get 50 viruses infecting her system in one day a while ago , with virus protection installed and running
01:47.52AchiestDragonwhat makes me think is i emaild yahoo over the spam , and it stopped , then again over the use of spoofing my email address , that seems to have stoped also , now this
01:48.29AchiestDragonso it appears to point to them beeing able to contact those responcable in some way
01:52.18AchiestDragonviruses where part of the reason i swiched to linux , the other beeing microsoft
01:55.52PrezKennedyits highly unlikely yahoo would do that
01:56.41AchiestDragonwell its those responcable for advertizing the geocity sites that are now owned by them
01:57.04PrezKennedyare you sure it isnt spoofing the links too?
01:58.13AchiestDragon? , anyway the events have been reported, so will hear from them about it  
02:00.09PrezKennedywould you mind forwarding one to me?
02:00.15PrezKennedyof the virus emails?
02:00.31PrezKennedyor one of the geocities ones?
02:00.59AchiestDragonwill do , wont include the actual virus though
02:01.15PrezKennedyeh just forward the whole thing
02:01.21PrezKennedyprezkennedy@gmail.com
02:16.04AchiestDragonk sent , dont think it sent the virus
02:18.25AchiestDragontheres the asci version of it in the email but it did not send it as an attachment ( because the attachment is still in the original email and not saved as a file on disk )
02:20.41AchiestDragonbut the virus is  Win32.Bagle.BT@mm
02:38.05PrezKennedyguess gmail filtered it cuz i didnt get it
02:38.46AchiestDragonha thats the other problem i got since thay started using my email address for spoofing there emails
02:39.40AchiestDragongmail , you have to go to gmail.com in the webmail view it will be in the spam box there
02:39.52PrezKennedynope not there
02:41.29AchiestDragonsent it again from my gmail address
02:41.45PrezKennedyok
02:42.07AchiestDragonmay have filtered it because of the virus
02:44.07AchiestDragonthat one arrive ?
02:45.22PrezKennedynope
02:47.19AchiestDragonok removed virus and resent
02:48.02PrezKennedygmail isnt cooperating... someone else sent me something and i havent gotten it yet
03:02.42AchiestDragongmail seems to be fine here
03:03.06AchiestDragonand normaly prity fast
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05:14.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: prototype and declaration consistency with the non-ansi sections
05:19.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: non-ansi aix build fixes regarding initialing arrays in a struct (can't use curlies)
05:25.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (memset.c strchr.c strdup.c strsep.c): quell potential compiler warnings/errors about empty compilation units, toss in a static
05:28.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/bot-bldxf.c: aix build fix, remove old embedded decl of strrchr. include common.h while we're at it.
05:28.49PKMOBILEAchiestDragon, finally got your email
05:29.43PKMOBILEthose are all spoofed and have nothing to do with yahoo
05:29.51PKMOBILEtheyre spammers using geocities
05:53.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: quell image size warnings
06:08.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-Null.c dm-X.c dm-plot.c dm-ps.c): quell aix compiler warnings, cast bu_free pointer to genptr_t
06:13.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libcursor/cursor.c: no sense casting to a void*, puts takes an int(*)(int) function pointer so make PutChr match (quells aix warnings too)
06:16.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/Mm.h: header cleanup, get rid of the non-ansi cruft
06:28.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/Tc.c: removed the empty compilation unit that's been deprecated/replaced for years
06:29.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/Makefile.am: remove the obsolete Tc.h and Tc.c interface files
06:29.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (Hm.c Sc.h error.c prnt.c Tc.h): remove the deprecated Tc terminal capabilities routines/defines that were converted to use libtermio -- just use libtermio directly now making the Tc routines officially obsoleted
06:30.10pra5adworking hard i see
06:31.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/error.c: what the hell is fb_log doing defined in here? my eyes are burning, please make it stop.
06:33.33PKMOBILEoh the humanity
06:34.00brlcadtis a good evening, and with my clock reset, I can hit my active hours again
06:34.10brlcadfg
06:35.24PKMOBILEmost productive between the hours of 1 and 4?
06:35.32brlcadpretty much
06:36.05brlcadmore like 11 to 3, but it takes a couple hours to "get up to speed" when coding
06:47.44*** join/#brlcad pra5ad_ (n=prasad@pool-141-157-87-77.balt.east.verizon.net)
06:53.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/loadfont.c: set return type to int, quell warning
06:54.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/extern.h:
06:54.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: declare the Va_Decl functions the same when Va_Decl decides how to prototype
06:54.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: them, otherwise there can be a mismatch (and there was on aix). add prnt_Debug
06:54.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: while we're at it since one of the routines uses it as an extern func.
06:55.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/ (execshell.c fbed.c pos_pad.c): quell compiler warnings by including the requisite headers
06:57.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/prnt.c: remove the unnecessary prnt_Event declaration, can conflict anyways
07:02.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-Null.h: missing end comment. fortunately it's an empty header, but say so to be open about it
07:04.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: remove unused chan1 var
07:05.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dodraw.c: aix compiler fix for non-ansi support -- curlies are a no go, so __STDC__ them away
07:11.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c cmd.c): quell warnings
07:31.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (16 files): header cleanup, reorg, and general bug squashing including adding missing headers
07:38.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: call setpgrp correctly (no args, always valid return) and use a configure check result for setpgid
07:38.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for setpgid function
07:41.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: comment on oddity of bu_log being here
10:15.23*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable084.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca)
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14:19.52``Erik*yawn*
20:04.46*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable084.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca)
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23:34.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: add support for creating spheres from point sets
23:35.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: header cleanup
23:42.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/shade.c:
23:42.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: if the intersection normal that's returned is knowingly reversed, flip it (while
23:42.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: still complaining). this usually indicates a bug in the underlying primitive or
23:42.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: a problem with the geometry itself, but rendering nothing/black is pretty
23:42.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: worthless. also, limit the number of shade_input messages about flipped normals
23:42.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: to just 100 so as not to spew unnecessarily to the console and slowing down the
23:42.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: raytrace.
23:44.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: raytrace of -s64 and remote -F/dev/Xl crashes inside an empty memcpy
23:45.08PKMOBILEph the humanity!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051101

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051101

02:09.20*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
02:24.08*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@Toronto-ppp221522.sympatico.ca)
02:24.13louipcgreetings
02:26.12brlcadhowdy
02:27.30pra5ad_meep meep
02:47.32louipcis there an html version of the docs?
02:52.20brlcadlouipc: there is but it's not as up to date or well written as the pdf docs are
02:52.47brlcadstill relevant and useful, though -- you get more detail from the html
02:53.31brlcadthe html docs are installed with the binary distributions, look in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/doc/html
02:53.33louipcah that's cool - I was wondering because it'd be easier to search through the docs for me
02:53.52brlcadyou can get to the html docs from within mged on the help menu
02:55.23louipcare you still using tcl in the new interface?
02:56.40louipcah I found some stuff in /usr/brlcad/html/manuals
03:50.36brlcadwhich new interface?
03:50.47brlcad/usr/brlcad/html .. what version are you using?
03:51.07brlcadthat sounds slightly dated, though the docs haven't changed
04:58.00louipcoh yeah it is old hah
06:00.46louipcwell thanks, take it easy
08:48.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: accept a modified version of Stefan Fiedler's tail/head patch for -n # instead of -# as the line option. this conforms to _POSIX2_VERSION 200112 and tools compiled against said posix version too.
08:53.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): presume posix behavior in the tools, accepting a modified version of stefan fiedler's e-mailed patch. solaris is known to have issues but that should be extremely minor
08:54.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: presume posix behavior in the tools, accepting a modified version of stefan fiedler's e-mailed patch. solaris is known to have issues but that should not be relevant to this script at all
08:58.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: -n comes before
09:05.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/vers.sh:
09:05.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: accept a modified version of Stefan Fiedler's tail/head patch for -n # instead
09:05.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: of -# as the line option. this conforms to _POSIX2_VERSION 200112 and tools
09:05.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: compiled against said posix version that allow run-time complaince forcing.
09:08.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: head/tail -n usage posix compliance, accepting a modified version of Stefan Fiedler's tail/head patch for -n # instead of -# as the line option. this conforms to _POSIX2_VERSION 200112 for head/tail.
09:43.12*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable084.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca)
15:49.27``Erikgrar
16:12.07brlcadso where's ``Erik
18:19.07``Erik?
18:21.10brlcadnever mind
18:21.16brlcadcrapped out again
18:23.29``Erikthis is pissin' me off
18:23.57``Eriksmb still workin'
18:24.01brlcaddon't shoot the messenger
18:24.07brlcadshoot the architect
18:25.15``Erikheh
18:38.48``Erikwhuddre you doin' to mah machine, bo'?
19:47.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/Makefile.am: the header file depends on a libtool object
20:12.45*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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20:34.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
20:35.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/mged/points/process.c): check for stdint.h and inttypes.h (irix doesn't have stdint.h)
20:45.05*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:45.05*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051102

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051102

00:05.44*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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01:34.44hbramlethello
01:35.21hbramletI had a question regarding ray-tracing on the Windows Build if anyone has a sec to discuss it?
01:39.28hbramletI seem to have a problem when I attempt to ray trace (such as when performing the very first shape2.r tutorial in the brlcad documentation).
01:40.25hbramletit says "Could not connect to "Local User"" and the operation fails. Is there a configuration I need to set in the application, or do I need to open up a port so that this works?
02:12.03brlcadhbramlet: hello
02:12.40brlcadhbramlet: raytracing into the display manager directly is a known issue in the windows build -- you can render to a window, though.
02:12.57brlcadin the mged command window, run: rt -F/dev/ogl -s1024
02:13.17brlcadthat'll raytrace into a 1024x1024 window (default is 512x512)
16:16.15*** join/#brlcad Erroneous (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
16:46.49hbramletawesome...thanks for the help. I'll try tonight
17:32.42*** join/#brlcad Erroneous (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
20:19.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: strchr.c went to libsysv so remove it from the dist list
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051103

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051103

02:15.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO NEWS): improved AIX compiler support
02:29.54*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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17:22.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: accomodate irix's lack of c99 compliance
17:44.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-sgi.c sgi-pix.c): missing bu.h header for bu_getopt()
19:33.15*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@12.22.249.3)
21:16.12*** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (n=CIA@flapjack.navi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
21:35.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
21:35.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: readd the searching of top_srcdir/include as it is required in order to support
21:35.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: distcheck and building in non-srcdir builds. since it causes trouble for the
21:35.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: system facility/header checks (e.g. tcl.h -- which probably shouldn't be in
21:35.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 'our' main header dir anyways), set the cppflag after the system checks are
21:35.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: done.
22:03.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/Makefile.am: the headers are missing, help make distcheck work
22:22.44*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
22:36.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/Makefile.am: cylic dependency apparently -- try the .y
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051104

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051104

00:21.06pra5ad_hrmph
00:21.29pra5ad_flashed new bios, and my 'ddr400' ram is reported as ddr333
00:22.00pra5ad_sorta makes sense since i could never run the ram at >150
00:22.23learnerlooked up the memory's model number to verify which it's supposed to be?  maybe sent you the wrong ones
00:22.34pra5ad_package says ddr400
00:22.43pra5ad_can i sue someone? lol
00:23.13pra5ad_hmm i dunno
00:23.25pra5ad_cos i ran memtest86+ for 9 hrsa
00:23.29pra5ad_0 errors
00:23.32pra5ad_at 200mhz
00:23.32learnerheh
00:23.42learnerso crank it up
00:23.59pra5ad_crank what up? 200 is ddr400
00:24.26learnerah true dat
00:25.05pra5ad_let's see if it's stable with the bios settings
00:25.09pra5ad_157mhz
00:25.23pra5ad_default settings dont have auto cas #s
00:26.17pra5ad_im a little concerned that the vid card and onboard lan share the same irq
00:26.23pra5ad_? what outsourcing
00:26.28pra5ad_and to where
00:26.52learnersome other group's announcement that they need someone for a while
00:26.56learnerdon't remember details
00:27.01learnercheck your mail ;)
00:27.07``Eriko.O
00:27.16pra5ad_is this the adelphi job?
00:27.25learner*shrug*
00:28.22pra5ad_so i finally plugged in 2 of the 4 power connectors on the mobo ...
00:28.23``Erikwhy aren't you at work? o.O
00:28.31pra5ad_wonder if that fixed it
00:28.45learnerheh, i had alcohol cravings to cater to
00:28.45``Erikdoes your mb support 200mhz memory?
00:28.49``Erikoh, uh
00:28.51pra5ad_yes
00:28.54``Erik<-- tucks the bottle back in hsi desk
00:29.16learnerand some of that new shot stuff to test out
00:29.23``ErikI finished my babba vakka last night, but I'll wait a couple weeks to get another
00:29.25``Erik'shot stuff'?
00:29.29learnertuaca or somesuch
00:29.37``Erikare you pussifying your vodka?
00:29.42learnerwa wa wait a couple weeks??
00:29.47``Erikwell, yeah
00:29.51``ErikI have a full bottle of tequila
00:29.54``Erika full bottle of whiskey
00:29.56``Erika full bottle of gin
00:29.57``Erik...
00:30.03pra5ad_damn u drunks
00:30.04``Erika shelf full of beer
00:30.18learnerahh, so you're getting low
00:30.31``Erikyou have two choices if you stay on this project, prasad... either drink heavily, or all your hair will fall out.
00:30.39``Erikwho's cooler, man, me or ron? ;) *Duck*
00:30.48learnerrum!
00:30.57pra5ad_hah!
00:30.58``ErikOOH, I still got half a bottle of 151
00:31.12``Erikthe problem is that I need a chaser
00:31.16``Erikand I was using vodka, but I'm out
00:31.18``Erik*pout*
00:31.28pra5ad_how bout c) stop caring, get masters and bail
00:31.30pra5ad_=)
00:32.17learnerwhat does drinking have to do with c)?
00:32.28``Erikmy c gets better with drinking
00:32.30learner``Erik: heh
00:33.06pra5ad_staying on this project has something to do with c)
00:33.07learnerhow far away is cmu from here? i haven't looked it up
00:33.07pra5ad_i think
00:33.09pra5ad_..
00:33.25``Erikum, pittsburg, I think?
00:33.39learnerah, so about the same distance really
00:33.40``Eriktoo far to do without extended training
00:33.59learnerheh, maybe on paper
00:34.17learneroh, wait, i'm confusing cities, never mind
00:34.37``Erikheh, pennsylvania would be doable
00:34.39``Eriker
00:34.40``Erikphilly
00:34.41``Erikheh
00:34.52``Erikpittsburg is a wee bit up the road, tho
00:34.57learneryeah
00:35.05learnerthough if you got paid for the commute, who cares ;)
00:35.18``Erikheh, but mah po' truck!
00:36.36``Erikthe ones I'm on just celebrated their 10th bday
00:37.04pra5ad_learner needs a new gearbox
00:38.05``Erikdude, 327, shaved heads, quarter cams, fat supercharger, run it on 94, big fat tranny with a short ratio diff and a clutch with massive pads
00:38.21pra5ad_big fat tranny eh
00:38.22``Erikoh, mill down the flywheel so you don't torch the clutch to get the acceleration
00:38.37pra5ad_what street in baltimore have u been frequenting
00:38.44``Erikaxle weights, slicks, big honkin' sway bars
00:40.19``Erikdrop a transfer case to get the front wheels spinnin' too
00:41.07learnerheh, it would either explode or implode I'm sure
00:41.22``Erikheh
00:41.32learnersome quantum mechanics at work that prevent a souped up prizm :)
00:41.53``Eriknah, plain old newtonian physics can explain
00:42.24``Erikstart it and when it catches and revs up to speed, the block will launch out of the engine well, taking the hood with it and roll off into the distance
00:42.47``Erik"you know what'd be awesome?"
00:42.55learnerheh
00:43.14learnerand next year I win a darwin award
00:43.22``Erik<-- ponders putting "grom" on one of our fbsd boxen
00:43.48learneri'm really interested in testing out some software on openbsd's new malloc scheme
00:44.04``Erikhm, with the buffer gaurding?
00:44.08learneryeah
00:44.12pra5ad_buffer guarding?
00:44.22learnerdo an nmg comversion and take bets on it segfaulting ;)
00:44.30``Erika no-write page between heap and stack
00:44.38pra5ad_ohh
00:44.40``Erikso buffer overflows that hit that point throw an interrupt
00:44.41pra5ad_interesting
00:44.58``Erikdo they use 11? or another signal?
00:45.24``Erikmebbe reuse one of those 2460's
00:45.28learnerpra5ad_ single byte accesses to unallocated memory zones are pretty much guaranteed to cause a segfault for allocations > pagesize, and somewhat possible for < pagesize
00:46.07learnerit's a segfault -- the memory is owned by the kernel
00:46.33``Erikhrm, may've been more useful to cerate a new interrupt for those pages *shrug* but perhaps prohibitively expensive...
00:46.51``Erikactually, no, it shouldn't be expensive, if a segfault happens, look in a map to see if it's a gaurd page or not
00:46.54``Erik*shrug*
00:46.55learnerpra5ad_, basically the traditional memory overwrites that "might" cause bad things to happen are guaranteed to halt the program now under their new system
00:47.17``Erikelectric fence and dmalloc are supposed to provide similar behaviors
00:47.30learnerright, just that this is considerably higher performance
00:47.36``Erikthe big deal with obsd is that it's "on by default", I thought
00:47.49learnerimplying they did some magic in the kernel memory page management that make the padded zones more efficient
00:47.59pra5ad_how do they enforce this?
00:48.08pra5ad_check allocation header for every page?
00:48.14pra5ad_on each mem access?
00:48.15``Erikuh, by placing a page in the virtual memory?
00:48.33``Erikand let the mmu catch the fault
00:48.46learnerpra5ad_, by rewriting malloc and kernel memory management -- the memory is now owned by the kernel instead of your app potentially -- so you _can't_ write past a buffer without causing a segfault
00:49.21``Erik(is it actually a kernel owned page? not a "bad entry" in the mmu or something? I'd be surprised if they burnt a page to get a segfault, seems nonoptimal to me)
00:49.30pra5ad_can u potentially write above SP-page_size ?
00:49.33learnerwhereas before it only happens if you happen to write past enough bytes that spans into another apps memory space or the kernels .. now a single byte will be another zone
00:50.04learnerit's not a full page, but it is owned by kernel
00:50.05``Eriktlb hax0ring, heh
00:50.17pra5ad_hm
00:50.26learnerfrom what I gathered, that was part of the trick making it efficient -- getting those small kernel-owned paddings
00:50.45learnervery cool shizzle
00:51.02``Erikmake ww give me time and a machine to set up an obsd box for us :D
00:51.04learneri can't imagine the system being "functional" for some time though .. with all the apps crashing
00:51.12``Erikand a slowaris-x86 10 box, too
00:51.33learnersounds like a gem for debugging ease
00:51.35``Erikif the core os functions, it's a usable machine... bsd ain't like leenewx
00:51.47``Erikfor buffers overflowing into the stack, sure
00:52.05learnerwell yeah, if emacs, sh, gcc, and the kernel work, I'm set
00:52.10learnerbut I mean general user ;)
00:52.19``Erikheh, emacs is not part of the base system. Use vi.
00:53.05pra5ad_all hail visual studio
00:53.45learnertaking the leap off of pico back in the day was the big hurdle
00:53.52``Eriknothin' like unifying *nix holywarriors by mentioning ms
00:53.52learnerbut that's like a baby taking his first steps
00:54.05``Erikmy leap off of pico was easy, I used 'joe'
00:54.10learnerheh
00:54.10``Erikthen used emacs for a short bit
00:54.11``Erikthen vi
00:54.14pra5ad_i like vi visual mode :P
00:54.15``ErikI upgraded
00:54.20``Erikthat's vim, prasad
00:54.23``Eriknot vi
00:54.25pra5ad_that's what i meant
00:54.31``Erikvim is not part of the base system. Use vi.
00:54.32``Erik:D
00:54.35learnernever learned "the true power of the dark console"
00:54.54pra5ad_i am part of the 'say no to vi' army
00:55.15``Eriks/d/ds machine/
00:55.38learnerheh
00:55.41learnerthat's just mean
00:55.50pra5ad_i feel so violated
00:55.59learnerbut pra5ad_ probably deserves it
00:56.14learneryeah, me to .. "q"
00:56.21``Erikheh
00:56.35``Erikrepair work on a system that ate and crapped out all its termcap information
00:56.47pra5ad_so is ``Erik going to port freebsd to cell?
00:57.05``Erikwhy bother? no one uses cell procs, so netbsd has been ported to it
00:57.19``Eriksum yung gai?
00:57.27pra5ad_and i thought u wanted to get off m3
00:57.30learneryup
00:57.43learnerand some of that new fangled vodka
00:57.53``Erikmmmm, babba vakka
00:58.28``Erikas in, 'not jim beam'?
00:58.37pra5ad_heh new jprofiler runs show what seems to be deadlocks on large analysis runs
00:58.40``Erikwhich one did you go to? the one by mogrorian?
00:58.42learnerniet!
00:58.47learneryeah
00:58.48pra5ad_wonder who's going to fix those
00:58.56``Erikthat's a hillbilly booze store
00:59.07learnerhole-in-the-wall mostly just stocked with the basics try not to get shot place
00:59.16``Erikthey consider regular jack to be top shelf
00:59.37``Erik"makers whu?" heh
00:59.54learnermy options are sorta limited without driving into bel air or towards the city
01:00.12``Erikheh, yeah
01:00.16learnernothing on the way at least
01:00.26``Erikthe barn thing down the road looks worse than the one in that strip mall
01:00.30learnerthere is that place between abby and havre
01:00.41``Erikif you make it down to belcamp, anchor isn't too bad
01:01.04learnerok, now I'm parched, cheers!
01:01.07``ErikI've gotten spoiled with my forest hill snob stores
01:01.10``Erikhasta, duder
01:20.07pra5ad_cell rd kit in april 2006
01:20.23pra5ad_enough time to sell it to mgmt
01:56.25``Erik*yawn*
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05:15.55pra5ad_sean
05:16.00pra5ad_what tool create config.guess
05:18.01pra5ad_ah nm
05:52.04MaloeranMmm, Twingy isn't back online yet.  Is he all settled, ``Erik?
10:36.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
10:36.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: define compile-time debug/non-debug symbols DEBUG and NDEBUG so they are
10:36.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: consistently available across the package (and so assert() can pick up NDEBUG
10:36.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: correctly). DEBUG is used by rt to make a note in the log that this is a debug
10:36.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: build
10:39.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: output a warning iff compile-time debugging is enabled so the benchmark tests can look for it
10:43.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (Hm.c burst.c grid.c idents.c paint.c prnt.c trie.c ui.c): DEBUG/NDEBUG cleanup, pull the value from and include common.h before system headers
10:56.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: (log message trimmed)
10:56.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: refactor the resource searching into a look_for function so that it's clear
10:56.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: exactly what directories are being searched for which resources. remove the
10:56.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: compiling and automatic conversion of encountered ascii files for now too.
10:56.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: resources are searched for presuming first that we're a binary install and
10:56.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: failing that, we're being run from a source distribution after a make or make
10:56.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: benchmark. identify the major sections with comment labels, and rename the
12:15.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh:
12:15.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: add support to look for specific types of files, executables, dirs, scripts as
12:15.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: well as cleaning up detection and output of whether this is a 'valid' benchmark
12:15.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: run. if it does seem to be valid, inform about the documentation and encourage
12:15.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: submission of results.
12:34.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: it's not _really_ necessary that there be no debug symbols, just make a note of it in the output. inform about the benchmark.tr document regardless.
14:51.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (14 files):
14:51.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: burst the non-ansi-yet-willing-to-pretend-we-are-c99 bubble that the burst code
14:51.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: likes to use. that is, use static instead of STATIC and don't clobber the
14:51.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: bool/true/false reserved words of the c++ compilers. clean up the headers to
14:51.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: support this.
15:11.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: The default behavior of the "find" command has been changed. It now ignores hidden objects. A -a option has been added to give the original behavior (find all, even hidden).
15:14.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Wizard.tcl: Add the following methods: buildGridZonesXML, vectorAdd and vectorScale
15:18.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add code to guard against an old .archerrc that uses the "Crystal (Large)" theme. Add code to toggle whether to use the draw command -n option (normals).
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18:18.57``Erikmeh
18:20.13``Erikhe says 35% moved into his new house, it's actually his now, but it sounds like a fairly rough transaction... I know I was helping him move stuff monday night and some shit fell through on him with that, so his schedule got collapsed into a smaller chunk of time
18:20.26``Erikheh, he beat the shit out of a table and yelled all through lunch telling the story today
18:20.40``Erikpoor prasad was having trouble pouring sake ;)
19:01.04*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
19:26.12brlcadmmm.. sake!
19:32.00``Erikwas good
19:32.04``Erikyou shoulda went with us
19:58.03brlcadi'll go their for dinner instead me thinks
20:20.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: strerror section is in the wrong section
20:26.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: sys_nerr is _sys_nerr under windows too
20:28.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/prnt.c other/URToolkit/tools/into.c): sys_errlist is defined as _sys_errlist in include/config_win.h so no need for the duplicated WIN32 sections
20:33.15*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable084.164-81-70.mc.videotron.ca)
20:36.45CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: include common.h so that HAVE_ symbols may be used to work around compilation support issues. e.g. sys_errlist on solaris
20:46.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Solaris: comment on the solaris/gcc -mimpure-text option to get a static system library to link against a shared library being built
20:54.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/execshell.c: the win32 section for _sys_errlist isn't needed as the config_win.h header takes care of it
20:55.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletoabA62/rletoabA62.c: quell warning about main not returning an int
21:05.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Linux: comment on the inability to run binaries from an uninstalled ppc64 debian system
22:16.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
22:16.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: make_bb didn't have the ubiquitous -u option that all the other raytracing
22:16.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: apps have. Now it does. This allows users to make bounding boxes of
22:16.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: geometry that includes/is air.
22:32.20*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051105

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051105

01:21.17*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
04:36.58pra5ad``Erik,
04:37.50pra5adam i appending opengl.m4 to acinclude.m4?
04:38.03pra5adi don't want external dependancies
04:38.20pra5ador is there a way to #include files in acinclude
04:40.50pra5adopengl.m4 doesn't add -lGLU || -lglu32
12:23.33*** join/#brlcad hosk (n=ank@ns1.yellowestpages.com)
14:14.05``Erikput opengl.m4 in your own m4/ directory and aclocal -I m4, and no, it doesn't do glu, glu isn't opengl o.O
16:52.34pra5adu should make m4s for glu + glut then
16:53.06brlcadwhere'd the opengl.m4 come from?
16:53.24pra5aderik's site
16:53.43brlcaderik has a site.. hmm
16:54.26pra5adhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik
16:56.52pra5adhmm if i do aclocal -I m4, will autoreconf run that same command later?
16:58.02brlcadnope
16:58.12brlcadautoreconf has it's own option
16:58.23brlcadbrl-cad's autogen.sh will autodetect the m4 directory and do the right thing
16:58.34brlcadtake a look in there, or just use it
16:59.25pra5adautogen.sh is explicitly called?
16:59.42brlcadhmm?
17:00.01brlcadyou run it instead of aclocal/autoreconf/whatever .. it does all the steps for you
17:00.12brlcad./autogen.sh then on to ./configure
17:00.20pra5adarr
17:00.26pra5adok
17:01.40brlcador just run it once with -v and it'll tell you the autoreconf steps
17:01.51brlcad(-v is verbose)
17:04.02brlcadso which project uses the opengl.m4?
17:04.07brlcadglpong?
17:04.15brlcadvp?
17:08.50pra5adgamem4
17:10.09brlcadthx
17:13.47brlcadheh
17:13.48brlcadGLXEXTRALIBSHIT
17:14.42brlcadthose sources are like pg-13 :)
17:17.23pra5adheh
17:18.33brlcad"windows is fucking retarded. ..."
17:18.50AchiestDragon:) whats new
17:19.35pra5adi guess i change all the gl references to glu or glut equivalent to create their own m4s
17:20.22brlcadnot really, though that would be a start
17:20.36brlcadglu requires gl itself, but not necessarily -lGL
17:20.47pra5adargh
17:21.04pra5adi should just modify opengl.m4 to my own reqs
17:21.35brlcadmight be in -lglu32 or -lGLU or maybe even in -lGL
17:21.45brlcador -framework OpenGL, etc
17:23.11brlcadpull up the configure.ac's from several cross-platform opengl games, you'll get the picture
17:23.39brlcadbz has a fair bit of .ac/.m4 code dedicated to gl detection for example
17:23.52pra5adit's lgpl right?
17:24.33pra5adis there a store nearby that sells atx cases?
17:25.26brlcadbz's isn't neatly put into an m4 for ogl, it's mixed between sdl checks and lots of ogl checks in .ac
17:26.40pra5adi already have sdl.m4.. hmm
17:28.43pra5adlibsdl faq  - "If you are using autoconf and automake for your project, you can copy the contents of 'sdl.m4' into your acinclude.m4 file, and then add the following to your configure.in file:"
17:30.12brlcadyes, and?
17:30.33pra5adjust saying =)
17:32.18brlcadit's more easy to just use the sdl.m4 as is, but "how" is a bit much to put into a faq
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21:42.11``Erikaslo
21:57.40*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
22:46.31*** join/#brlcad ircleuser (n=gypigmt@24-231-207-89.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com)
22:47.16ircleuserhello everybody
22:49.19brlcadhowdy!
22:49.30ircleuseri am fine
22:49.39ircleuserhow abt you?
22:49.40brlcadglad to hear it
22:49.45brlcadpeachy
22:49.52ircleusergood!
22:50.59ircleuserAre you a senior developer ?
22:52.54ircleuseru there?
22:52.55brlcadyou could say that
22:54.13ircleuserI just found this program on sourceforge.net. I think its a very interesting project and i d really like to contribute to it
22:54.13brlcadnot sure there's another dev that understands as much of the code at this point
22:54.37ircleuserOh I see.
22:54.43brlcadircleuser: glad to hear it, we're always interested in folks joining in
22:55.03brlcadwe're not short on ideas or work
22:55.09brlcadwe're short on devs and time ;)
22:55.28ircleuserOh I see.
22:55.55brlcadnot short in a bad way, but there's lots of work and ideas and only so many people ;)
22:56.01ircleuserI have software development experience of ~2 yrs
22:56.14ircleusermay be i could help
22:56.16brlcadexcellent
22:56.18brlcadsure
22:56.38brlcadhave anything in particular in mind?  ahve you used the package at all?
22:56.42ircleuserBut i need some help initially
22:56.47brlcadunderstandably
22:57.12ircleuserI just could install it
22:57.18brlcadthe best place to start is the HACKING file in the source distribution, I'd start with a CVS checkout and go from there
22:57.20ircleuserafter a lot of trouble
22:57.42ircleuseri did CVS checkout and compiled it.
22:58.21ircleuserI come from windows platform background..and I currently own a ibook
22:59.16brlcadknow of anything you're interested in working on in particular?
22:59.24ircleuserI want to set up development environment on my ibook. but not exactly sure how to do that
22:59.42ircleuseryou mean a particular module
22:59.55brlcadbuild system support, bug squishing, modeler improvements
23:00.09brlcadsetting up on your ibook for development shouldn't be too hard at all
23:00.28brlcados x is one of the primary supported platforms
23:01.37ircleuserAs long as it is coding, it does not matter if if its build system support or bug squishing
23:02.26ircleuserOk. CanI use Xcode Ide to debug the source code?
23:03.10ircleuserthis might look like stupid questions to you but I have no dev experience on non-windows platform.
23:03.21brlcadnot a problem
23:03.27ircleuserI am assuming it wouldn't be drastically different
23:03.34brlcadyou can use xcode if you like, but there's not an xcode project any longer
23:04.02brlcadi could probably make one pretty easily if that's what you want to work with
23:04.13brlcadone that invokes the unix build environment, though
23:04.20ircleuserOh that would be great.
23:04.48brlcadthat's the biggest difference -- the build system is the 'gnu build system' using autoconf/automake/libtool
23:05.15brlcadthere is a main configure.ac file and Makefile.am's spread out throughout the project
23:05.33brlcadthat describe how to build, what to build, etc
23:06.04ircleuserOh I see.
23:06.36ircleuserso do you use a gui based compiler?
23:06.49brlcadso you could use xcode to see and edit the sources, but the build system would still be the gnu build system
23:07.04ircleuserok.
23:07.14brlcadi have from time to time, but I prefer Emacs for just about everything these days
23:07.28brlcadsome other's prefer their own editors
23:07.28ircleuserOh ok.
23:08.47ircleuseron a higher level, can you say how I can do a build? I have vim editor
23:10.36brlcadsure
23:10.45brlcadfrom a checkout, or source distribution?
23:11.26brlcadvim won't do the compiling, that's all done through commands on the command-line (though you can issue the commands from inside vim)
23:11.30ircleusercheckout..(does it mean the source code check out on to my system?)
23:11.46ircleuserok
23:11.52brlcadit means whether you pulled the sources from cvs or whether you downloaded a source tarball
23:12.05ircleusersources from cvs
23:12.41ircleuserplease
23:12.42brlcadokay, so then to build
23:12.47brlcad./autogen.sh
23:12.48brlcad./configure
23:12.51brlcadmake
23:13.22brlcadabout 30-40 minutes later on an ibook, you should have a full compile
23:14.17ircleuserok. How about debugging? say if I want to edit code , set breakpoints etc..
23:18.21brlcadgdb is the gnu debugger
23:18.44brlcadyou edit with an editor (vim for example), debug with a debugger (gdb)
23:19.06brlcadxcode integrates that seeing how it's an IDE, but even it just invokes gdb
23:19.37ircleuserok. cool
23:20.47ircleuserI will try to familiarise with the package
23:21.10ircleuserfirst and then try to see how the code works
23:22.06ircleuserI did work with Unigraphics.
23:22.09brlcadthe thing to keep in mind, if it's not obvious, is that it's a big package ;)
23:22.22ircleuser:-)
23:22.28brlcadthere are lots of applications included
23:22.50ircleuserok.
23:22.50brlcadwith various programming styles, and various goals
23:23.02ircleuseroic
23:23.12ircleuserand is there documentation
23:23.15ircleuser?
23:23.40brlcadtry not to let it overwhelm, best to focus on something you want/need and work on improving that area and expanding your familiarity bit by bit
23:23.54brlcadotherwise, it will become very daunting very quickly
23:23.56ircleuserOk.
23:24.02brlcadyes, there are quite a bit of docs
23:24.23brlcadHACKING file is really a good place to start, as is the first few docs on the website
23:24.43ircleuserok. cool
23:25.16ircleuserso this packages primary purpose was to do ballistics analysis?
23:26.05brlcadmodeling for ballistic analysis
23:26.26brlcadbrl-cad doesn't actually perform the ballistic analysis itself, but it's used to make the models of tanks, buildings, etc
23:26.47ircleuserOh ok.
23:26.49brlcadit's also got tools for raytracing, signal analysis (thermal signatures, etc)
23:27.00ircleusercool.
23:27.14brlcadthere's also a lot of geometry converters
23:27.22brlcadincluding a unigraphics converter
23:27.38ircleusergood
23:27.44brlcadalso iges, pro/e, dxf, etc
23:28.00brlcadall with their plus's and minus's that could be improved upon
23:28.07ircleuseroh i see.
23:28.21brlcadthere's always room for improvement ;)
23:28.47ircleuseryes sure. Which companies / research labs use this package?
23:29.03brlcadheh
23:29.48brlcadquite a few, varies over the years -- but all three main military labs use it as it's the primary DoD modeler for ballistic analysis which army, air force, and navy all do
23:30.18ircleuserwow. thats interesting !
23:30.43brlcadsince it's gone open source, it's a little harder to keep track of exactly who other than paying attention to the names and e-mails of people asking questions on the mailing lists and bulletin boards
23:30.58ircleusertrue.
23:31.57brlcadthere's over 2k downloads sustained at this point, and we haven't even put up the windows binary yet
23:32.08brlcad(per month)
23:32.22ircleusergreat!
23:32.39ircleuserwhen did this go open source?
23:32.58brlcadif you wanted, there are windows build files for studio -- though they will ultimately be moving towards the gnu build system under msys or mingw as well probably too
23:33.37brlcadit went open source on Dec 23, announced mid January or so
23:34.02ircleuserless than a year
23:34.35brlcadwe're just about to make the 11th iteration release next week
23:34.55ircleuserany major additions?
23:35.03brlcadfrom the open source side?
23:35.13ircleuseryes
23:35.44brlcaddepends what you consider major, but I'd probably say "no" if you count out everyone that wasn't already a dev
23:36.02brlcadso there's definitely room to shine ;)
23:36.12ircleuser:-)
23:36.16brlcadthere are a couple guys working on what I'd consider major features
23:36.33brlcadbut they're not done yet
23:37.48ircleuserok. do you provide direction for the building effort? or is it individual's idea?
23:38.00ircleuseri
23:38.01brlcadone guy made great progress on a step converter, which would have been major major, but has been dealing with personal issues at home
23:38.27ircleuseroh thats sad
23:38.35brlcadyou can go either way -- I'd rather leave it up to what interests you to be honest
23:38.58ircleuseroh ok
23:39.19brlcadthere are a few parts of the code that necessarily are more tightly watched than others, like changing the format of the .g database files or changing the behavior of the ray-tracer
23:39.34brlcadbut even those can be changed if it's done carefully
23:40.02brlcadif you're looking for "something to do" I can certainly help push you in directions too or try to seed you with some ideas
23:40.05ircleuseroh i see.
23:40.11brlcadhelp you familiarize yourself with the code, etc
23:40.39brlcadI communicate with a couple devs via e-mail and irc in that manner, explaining code and pointing them in directions
23:40.44ircleuserYeah that would be great
23:41.40ircleuserwell initially i might benefit from some direction because i have never worked on such application
23:41.59brlcadwhat interests you?
23:42.28brlcadmodeling?  converters?  raytracing?  creating models?
23:42.57ircleusermodeling/ray tracing..
23:43.08ircleuservisual aspects basically..
23:43.28brlcadyou'll probably like the new modeler and can probably help out with that once code is commited
23:43.50ircleuserok.
23:43.51brlcadit basically provides an integrated IDE over all the brl-cad system tools and libraries
23:44.17ircleuseryes. i just need to brush up my CSG knowledge
23:44.19brlcadwhich was sort of mged's intent, albeit not a great effort gui-wise
23:44.43ircleuseroh i see
23:45.54brlcadhave you used mged yet?
23:45.57brlcadheh
23:46.01ircleuserno
23:46.10ircleuseri just could install it
23:46.20brlcadwell, it isn't unigraphics ;-) but it very much does get the job done
23:46.38brlcadand there are even power users that can use it just as efficiently most of the time
23:46.55ircleuserhmm. interesting
23:47.04brlcadi'd compile and install from cvs if you're interested in dev'ing
23:47.33brlcadyou'll have a little more learning on just how a unix command line works at the start, but I think you'll eventually appreciate it's flexibility
23:47.43brlcadcould be wrong, but most do that learn it
23:48.10ircleuseryes, i am not much familiar with command line
23:48.27brlcadthe INSTALL file in the cvs checkout includes instructions that should walk you through/repeat those steps that I mentioned
23:48.49brlcad'less INSTALL' to read the contents on the command-line
23:49.00ircleuserok.
23:49.52ircleuserso can you build/debug indivdual module without having to do it all over again?
23:50.08brlcadright
23:50.26ircleusercool.
23:50.39brlcadif you want to read the install file, it'll open up in textedit too of course
23:50.53ircleuseryes i read that already.
23:51.22ircleuserone last question
23:52.02ircleuseron my ibook, to start mged i have to open X11 window and then issue 'mged'command
23:52.35ircleuserso does it start happen automatically if I debug it?
23:53.02ircleuser(this sounds dumb to me too..but i had to ask :-))
23:53.18brlcaddoes what start to happen automatically?
23:53.48brlcadgdb debugging is an exercise/simple tutorial in itself
23:54.38ircleuserok..i mean does the application start if there are no breakpoints ?
23:54.48ircleuseror errors?
23:54.55brlcadit starts when you tell it to start only
23:55.14brlcadgdb mged
23:55.26brlcad.. some output, gdb initializes ..
23:55.33brlcadyou are given a gdb prompt
23:55.54brlcadat which point you can type "help" or "start" or "breakpoint file.c:123" etc
23:56.01ircleuseroh ok.
23:56.23brlcadi'll see if I can whip up the xcode project for you, since that wraps it all in the xcode ide ;)
23:56.49ircleuserok i will read the gdb tutorial.
23:57.35ircleuserYes, it would be lot useful if I have a Xcode project
23:57.40brlcadit's the defacto debugger next to studio's on windows, useful to learn regardless
23:58.38ircleusersure. well i am guessing it won't take much effort to learn gdb
23:59.02brlcadnah, it's pretty intuitive even for a command-line interface
23:59.18brlcad"next" (or "n" for short) for single-stepping
23:59.43brlcad"backtrace" or "bt" to see the backtrace call stack
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051106

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051106

00:00.07ircleuserwell I will google for a tutorial
00:00.16brlcad"break function_name" to break on a particular function or file:line for a particular line number
00:00.45ircleuseroh i see
00:01.55ircleuserI need to go now. but you have been a lot of help
00:02.01ircleuserThanks a lot !
00:02.07brlcadno problem
00:02.21ircleuseri will keep in touch.
00:02.27brlcadif there's nobody here, feel free to drop questions on the dev mailing list too
00:02.53ircleuserCan I have your email address? mine is narench@gmail.com
00:02.56brlcadthough i'm usually here myself or read the log if i'm not
00:03.14ircleuseroh thats good.
00:03.41ircleuserperfect
00:03.48ircleuser!
00:03.54ircleuserbye now
00:03.58brlcadcya
01:00.25``ErikO.o
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01:31.07cad402I followed the installation instructions for the latest version of BRL CAD for MAC OSX and I cannot figure out how to start the application.
01:33.33*** join/#brlcad cad402 (n=45add595@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:58.52pra5adgah
01:59.40pra5adi should read the 'do not unscrew the canister until it is empty' warning on this dust cleaner
01:59.51pra5adi think my ear drums popped
03:16.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged's solid illuminate doesn't work when Lighting is turned on
03:51.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (77 files in 5 dirs): include stdlib.h to quell ansi c warnings about exit being implicitly defined
03:57.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/clock/rleClock.c: stack_t is a standard type, rename to clock_stack_t
04:27.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: the benchmark suite searching was rewritten, fixed, and improved. ready to release
04:32.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed 'benchmark' tool resource searching
05:28.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/tclscripts/mged/bindings.tcl): set default mged Escape key binding to reject
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17:06.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c:
17:06.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: if tk fails to load, try a simple local port initialization. replace the exit
17:06.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: calls with mged_finish calls like we're supposed to. if the database doesn't
17:06.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: exist, notify the parent we're done before exiting so parent exits cleanly.
17:12.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged utilizes a local display if unspecified/unset
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17:35.19``Erikheh
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17:56.52``Eriko.O
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19:38.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: instead of a helpful display message, try just using a local port -- if that fails, leave it up to X11's "useful" error message
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20:10.56skel_homehi =] is there an ebuild for brlcad?
20:14.36``Erik"ebuild"/
20:14.37``Erik?
20:14.47skel_homethe package system for gentoo =]
20:15.12``Erikah, the 'portage' stuff? I wouldn't know, I do real ports, a la freebsd
20:15.47skel_home=]
20:17.33skel_homewill try in #gentoo
20:18.42skel_homeI would like to design a type of turbine =] would brl-cad be good for something like that?
20:20.40skel_homelike, are there templates for various things? like parts I can import?
20:20.47brlcadthere was a test ebuild
20:20.52brlcadbut not an official one to date
20:21.18skel_homebrlcad: would you happen to know where I could find it?
20:21.22brlcadthere aren't really any templates, but building such an assembly wouldn't be too hard
20:21.58skel_homeI've installed brl-cad once before and started going through the tutorial =]
20:22.07skel_homeI liked it, just didn't have a purpose back then
20:22.18brlcadand now you do, excellent ;)
20:22.22skel_home=D
20:23.06brlcadthe previous ebuild is probably already a bit out of date, I'd suggest either just using a binary or compiling/installing again
20:23.24brlcadbrl-cad is fully contained into /usr/brlcad by default so uninstall is a simple matter of rm -rf /usr/brlcad
20:23.46skel_homecool. and I imagine there's a --prefix option that I can modify
20:23.52brlcadyep
20:23.57skel_homeokie =]
20:24.00brlcadyou could specify /usr/local if you like
20:24.16skel_homeI stick all my non-packaged stuff in opt =]
20:24.41brlcadit'll make a prefix/bin prefix/include prefix/share/brlcad/VERSION prefix/man and prefix/lib
20:24.55skel_homesince its self-contained, I shouldn't have to modify LD_LIBRARY_PATH right?
20:25.17brlcaddon't have to modify ld_library_path
20:25.28skel_homeyay =]
20:25.34skel_homeok grabbing the tarball
20:25.36brlcadyou'll just need to set PATH if it's not in  your PATH
20:25.52brlcadthe binary tarballs install to /usr/brlcad --  you'll need source to install into /opt
20:26.26skel_homeokie =]
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051107

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051107

00:28.59*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
01:08.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: sanity check for null rt_cmd_vec
01:11.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: need to init the vls before first use, potential for crash.
01:19.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: remove stale notification that files are v5 format, everything is v5
01:21.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: argv[0], not 'rt' -- used by all the rt-style binaries
04:40.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: simplify the ifdef logic and always use argv for rtcheck
04:43.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: don't presume that nirt is in the path, invoke it from the brlcad bin search order like the other commands
05:01.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: auto-locate mged external apps regardless of PATH
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16:08.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: make it easier to toggle between printing and doing
16:14.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: do instead of say what we're doing
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20:54.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.h: ws
20:55.14brlcadjoevalleyfield: ping
20:55.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/points_parse.y: compatibility with bsd parser, wants semicolon terminated blocks
20:56.08``Erik*yawn*
21:00.37joevalleyfieldpng
21:14.35joevalleyfieldi guess joevalleyfield then
21:14.45joevalleyfieldor that old standby phantom
21:14.51brlcadyour pick
21:15.04joevalleyfieldlet me have joevalleyfield
21:15.04joevalleyfieldits a new day
21:15.04brlcadssh access
21:17.36joevalleyfieldany idea about xoff?
21:17.44joevalleyfieldis it getting physically shuffled?
21:19.32brlcadit is getting physically shuffled afaik
21:23.08``Erikxoff is on the floor downstairs
21:23.25``Eriktomorrow the racks should get forklifted down and we can start re-racking the machines
21:31.19MaloeranHey ``Erik, what news of Justin? Seems he doesn't have internet at home, still
22:14.23*** join/#brlcad joevalleyfield (n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:17.03brlcadif anyone wants a network cloak to hide their ip, lemme know and I can set it up
22:17.19brlcador you can do it yourself too by contacting one of the staffers in #freenode
22:23.06AchiestDragon? is mine cloaked
22:24.45AchiestDragoncannot seem to get any more info on it other than  > AchiestDragon is n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk (david powell)
22:31.48brlcadit is not cloaked
22:32.10AchiestDragonbut no ip
22:32.12brlcadthe domain would be the cloak instead of whipy.demon.co.uk
22:32.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl: Add code to limit calls to lostFocusCallback
22:33.01brlcadfreenode will resolve the ips to a name if they resolve -- the cloak will hide that if/when you identify
22:33.12brlcade.g.
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22:33.30brlcadthat's a supporter cloak
22:33.34AchiestDragonwww.whipy.demon.co.uk is my website , so better in some ways , no ip link to the machine  
22:33.46brlcad~nslookup whipy.demon.co.uk
22:34.03brlcadyep, no ip link ;)
22:34.13AchiestDragonlol
22:35.21AchiestDragonguess i will need one , will make the bigger donation this year and do i then
22:42.10brlcadyou don't have to donate to get a cloak, you just have to ask
22:42.22brlcads/ask/register and ask/
22:42.52AchiestDragoni donate the $8 a year at the moment
22:47.57AchiestDragonok asks
22:48.35AchiestDragonnick is registered
22:49.02AchiestDragonsuppose i better link the alternate nick
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22:52.56*** part/#brlcad LostThePlot (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051108

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051108

01:24.00pra5adhave any of u used anjuta?
01:29.44brlcadcrazy talk
01:31.51pra5ad?
01:35.31AchiestDragonarrrggg gtk
01:36.20AchiestDragonno , but been learning kdevelop instead
01:37.43AchiestDragonor should i say started to but since there chaning to qt4 wating for the qt4 version of it to be stable ,, hmm so 12 month delay or so atm
02:16.53pra5ad``Erik, u there?
02:22.47pra5adfyi - http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal
02:23.03pra5adunderquoted defun
02:32.28pra5adbah.. autoreconf -I m4    doesn't pass the include dir to autoconf
02:34.58joevalleyfieldACLOCAL_AMFLAGS = -I m4
02:35.02joevalleyfieldin Makefile.am
02:35.31joevalleyfield?
02:35.46joevalleyfieldyou probaby knew that
02:36.20pra5adno i didn't
02:36.29joevalleyfieldi just came across it today
02:36.43pra5adhmm Makefile.am u say
02:36.46pra5adnot configure.ac ?
02:36.50joevalleyfieldyep
02:36.53joevalleyfieldnot configure.ac
02:37.01pra5adthat's counter intuitive..
02:37.18joevalleyfieldand as far as i can tell, AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR doesn't do squat
02:37.44pra5adah
02:37.59pra5ad``Erik, spelling error
02:38.02pra5adchecking for library containing glFrustum... no
02:38.02pra5adconfigure: error: Need OpenGL
02:44.31pra5adheh, 'forward compatibility' they say (re: AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR)
02:45.15pra5adjoevalleyfield, but don't u still need to call aclocal -I m4 ?
02:45.20pra5adexplicitly
02:46.06joevalleyfieldat first
02:46.20joevalleyfieldbut when it does the maintainer mode thing
02:46.24joevalleyfieldit doesn't screw it up
02:47.05pra5adah
02:47.18pra5adim reading here about setting up autogen.sh
02:51.39pra5ad``Erik, scratch that. not a spelling error
03:04.29pra5adseems AC_SEARCH_LIBS is broken..
03:04.36pra5adchecking for library containing glFrustum... no
03:04.36pra5adconfigure: error: Need OpenGL
03:21.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
03:21.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: bogus autom4te.cache protection. handle corrupted/invalid cache dirs that will
03:21.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: cause aclocal to fail. handle out-of-date cache dirs that autoconf 'should'
03:21.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: recognize but obviously doesn't for at least most current versions of autoconf
03:21.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: as well resulting in an unnecessary failure. cache files shouldn't halt tools,
03:21.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: stupid lame gnu build system tools.
03:22.39pra5adman wtf.. it can find gluPerspective in GLU but not glFrustum in GL
03:23.13joevalleyfieldi guess it doesn't put its failed programs in config.log for that
03:27.46pra5adtim saves the day once again
03:27.49pra5adconfigure:4984: gcc -o conftest -g -O2  -I./src   conftest.c -lGL   -lSM -lICE  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXext -lXmu -lXt -lXi     >&5
03:27.49pra5ad/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXmu
03:27.55pra5adwhile testing -lGL
03:28.15pra5ad``Erik, i have xorg
03:30.36brlcadpra5ad: brl-cad's autogen.sh should be a drop-in and run -- accommodates more stupidities of the gnu build system than I care to enumerate
03:30.58brlcadultimately runs autoreconf with the right flags if it'll work, otherwise it'll run the steps manually for you too
03:31.15pra5adwell this is an issue with ``Erik's script
03:31.18pra5adno?
03:32.08brlcadyes it is, i'm just saying from earlier comment about setting up an autogen.sh script
03:32.13pra5adah
03:32.22pra5adwell, here's my autogen.sh
03:32.36pra5ad#!/bin/sh
03:32.36pra5adautoreconf --force --install -I config -I m4
03:32.40pra5ad:P
03:33.04brlcadyeah, well that will fail in plenty of situations when it shouldn't
03:33.48pra5adtrue, but i only care for ubuntu 5.10 and cygwin (for now)
03:34.17brlcad*shrug*, your time down the road, not mine ;)
03:35.15pra5adheh
03:35.25pra5adhow much work would it be to update one script
03:38.01brlcadthere's probably a solid two or three weeks worth of time in the current script between hunting down why autoreconf or the other various tools fail under certain situations, debugging some GBS stupidity/bug
03:38.15brlcadstarting out about where you are now in the beginning
03:38.43brlcaddepends just how accommodating you want to ultimately be -- if it's just for you it probably doesn't matter as much
03:40.16brlcadhaving any autogen.sh script at all is rather against the gnu folk's retarded "methodology"
03:41.46brlcadthey say basically that you should force all devs onto a specific revision of the gbs tools for all your platforms, with no support for different versions, no accountability for their own bugs and various issues you can run into
03:43.07brlcadone of the worst aspects of gnu, imo -- those guys and their ideas can be incredibly counterproductive and impractical
03:43.46pra5adi expect nothing less from anything connected to 'methodology'
03:43.48brlcadone of the biggest reasons that make me wish there was a practical popular alternate
03:45.10``Eriko.O
03:45.13brlcadbut alas there is not
03:45.34``Erikwher'es my 7.6.4 ?
03:46.26brlcad``Erik: there's a meeting to uhm discuss it wednesday morning
03:46.38``Erik....
03:46.46``Eriknov01, bitch
03:47.05brlcadpreaching to the preacher
03:47.16``ErikI'm of the user community, right? tell mgmt that the user community is complaining about the delayed release.
03:47.23``Erikcontributing user community.
03:47.27``Erikdamnit.
03:47.41brlcadi'll be bringing up something to that effect
03:47.47``Erikheh
03:48.11``Erik:(
03:48.23pra5adbrlcad, what module do i checkout from the rep
03:48.24pra5ado
03:48.33brlcadpra5ad: for what?
03:48.38pra5adbrlcad
03:48.46brlcadheh
03:48.48brlcad"brlcad"
03:48.54brlcadyou didn't even try did you
03:49.05pra5adu know i didnt
03:49.06pra5ad=)
03:49.17brlcadheh
03:49.54``Erikdamn student (crazy daisy, w00)
03:50.02pra5ad``Erik, soo
03:50.07pra5adwhats with the X libs
03:50.14``Erikthey're libs
03:50.15``Erikfor X
03:50.17pra5admy system doesnt have Xmu defined
03:50.26``Erikreally?
03:50.30``Erikthat's... interstying
03:50.33``Erikinteresting
03:50.35pra5adhave the library*
03:51.06pra5ad(as in has no libXmu.so/a symlinks by default)
03:51.26pra5adbut why are the x libs required for the gl test
04:07.40pra5adsean
04:08.01pra5adthe .cvsignore files in the src subdirs dont include Makefile.in
04:08.44pra5adthe top level .cvsignore adds it. does it propogate down to the subdirs?
04:09.07pra5adiirc the man page said it wouldn't
04:57.25pra5adhaha once of my classmates from umd just got into redmond (win ce team)
04:58.12brlcadthey are not recursive, no
04:58.25brlcadif you want global, you can add it to the CVSROOT ignores file
04:59.06pra5adbad external dependancies
04:59.15pra5ad``Erik, u didnt answer my question
04:59.45``Erikwhat question?
05:00.08pra5adpra5ad but why are the x libs required for the gl test
05:00.20pra5adi can build w/o em
05:00.55``Erikhistorically, gl libs quired X libs available on leenewx and fbsd
05:01.33``Erikbear in mind the age of the m4's... i cracnked the fuckers up during the 'glide' days, yo
05:01.54pra5adwell besides the xlibs, the ac_defun function names need [] to kill some warning
05:02.01pra5adother than that
05:02.11pra5adi have it working on ubuntu 5.10 & cygwin
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05:22.55pra5adhttp://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/deptpage.asp?web_dept=Xbox+360&web_sub_dept=Hardware
05:23.12pra5adxbox 360 will be $600 (base), $700 (fully loaded)
05:23.15pra5adgood god
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05:28.15lachyghi....does does brlcad include the ballistics and radar simulation tools? because the website doesn't make it too clear
05:33.41brlcadlachyg: yes and no
05:34.18brlcadthere are various analysis codes that are non-geometric specific that utilize brl-cad
05:34.34brlcadbut that brl-cad does not ship ourselves
05:34.47lachygah ok, that's what i wanted to know
05:34.56brlcadthe base tools, however, are -- that is the tools for geometric interrogation and rendering
05:35.13lachygany Free (with a capital) ones out there?
05:35.15lachygokay
05:35.17brlcadincluding non-optical rendering, multispectral imaging
05:36.08lachygok
05:36.08brlcadthere are some free, but not necessarily readily available or available to just anyone
05:36.45lachygi'd meant GNU-style Free...but yeah, i'm outside the US, so i doubt i'd be able to get them too easily
05:37.52brlcadsome of them are in a gnu-style free, just not gnu ;)
05:38.31brlcadballistics and radar are very domain specific, you're not going to find much
05:39.13brlcadbrl-cad is probably the defacto base code for the ballistics analysis codes
05:40.02lachygokay....any names i should google for?  'cos i'm just learning it at the moment, looking for some of the "hey, this is cool" type stuff
05:41.39lachygyes, it's childish i admit :)
05:42.21brlcadnothing I could really suggest :)
05:42.52brlcadsearch long enough and you'll undoubtedly find some of them though
05:43.05brlcadat least references to them
05:43.44lachygbrlcad, ok, thanks a lot then
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13:04.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: give the tests something to compile, a simple int should do.
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14:16.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c:
14:16.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: The MGED mvall command was not catching when the user renames a sketch that
14:16.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: is used by an extrude primitive. The change mimics the treatment for
14:16.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: combination records. If the primitive being renamed is a sketch, we search
14:16.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: to see if any "extrude" uses the sketch and updates the name in the "extrude".
14:37.07CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/ (g_qa.1 g_qa.c):
14:37.07CIA-12BRL-CAD: The -g command line option can now have its arguments separated by either
14:37.07CIA-12BRL-CAD: a comma or a hyphen now, based upon user request.
14:51.42CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c:
14:51.42CIA-12BRL-CAD: Exposed two additional routines in the Tcl interface:
14:51.42CIA-12BRL-CAD:  bn_isect_line2_line2
14:51.42CIA-12BRL-CAD:  bn_isect_line3_line3
14:51.43CIA-12BRL-CAD: This allows us to process data from the Arcsecond Vulcan(tm) in Tcl scripts
14:51.43CIA-12BRL-CAD: instead of C code.
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21:12.44CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/ (process.c process.h):
21:12.44CIA-12BRL-CAD: rename the create functions to have a create_ prefix (e.g. create_plate), add
21:12.44CIA-12BRL-CAD: condense_points and delete_points for removing null points from a set and
21:12.44CIA-12BRL-CAD: deleting detected 5-point replicates in the input (implying a need to delete the
21:12.44CIA-12BRL-CAD: previous point).
22:54.49``Erik*yawn*
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23:46.31``Eriksean
23:54.08brlcaderik
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051109

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051109

00:32.08``Erika lot in churchville has a carmen gia for like 9k
00:33.32``Erikkarmann ghia, meh
01:04.55brlcadheh
01:22.12``Erikhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4579633665
01:23.49brlcadpurdy
01:24.02brlcadfreaking pristine
01:24.57``Erik*nod*
01:27.01``Erikhah, a sticker that says "important! this vehicle is wired negative earth!"
01:28.05``Erikanyways, saw the ghia on the drive home, *shrug* it's the lot right after grimmils furniture
02:43.21``Erikhehehe "swine before perl"
03:29.31pra5adbrlcad,
03:29.47pra5adu guys goto the gym next to the theatre?
03:45.12``Erikthere's oen right outside the gate
03:53.05pra5adsame size?
03:59.37brlcadi go to both
03:59.47brlcadbut for lunch we've been going to the one right outside
04:00.23brlcadit's much smaller, but mostly fully equiped
04:00.27``Erikwhat're the differences?
04:00.32``Erikheh
04:01.25``Eriki imagine the only two things I'd want in a gym are a uni and a pool... those, plus decent outdoor walks, and I think I'd be set...
04:01.31brlcadno nautilus, sauna, steamroom, or courts -- otherwise just one piece of each of the usual
04:01.35``Eriktreadmills and shit don't make sense to me
04:01.52``Erikwhu? the near one has nautilus gear?
04:01.55``Erik*perk*
04:03.10brlcadthere are the usual machines, but not nautilus (tm) -- the far one has the nautilus room
04:03.47brlcadthough i'm not sure far one is technically fully nautilus either, don't recall
04:03.49``ErikI'm not sure if I favor nautilus or freeweight
04:04.15``Erik*nod*
04:04.26``Erikfreeweight is more "real", nautilus has ufll range motion
04:04.36``Erikboth are better than wire&weight uni's, tho, heh
04:04.57brlcadusually do one for a while, then switch to the other from time to time just to keep the muscles guessing
04:05.07``Erikheh
04:05.14``Erikall my muscles went away :(
04:06.07``Erikwhat's the near gym have?
04:08.22``Erikuni's, free's, bikes, treadmills, and steppers?
04:08.35``Erikshowers and lockers?
04:09.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
04:09.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: re-add a benign flag along with the -search_paths_first option so that it's not
04:09.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: accidentally picked up by other linkers as a -s and -e linker path resulting in
04:09.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: warnings regarding an 'arch_paths_first' symbol entry point. used
04:09.23CIA-12BRL-CAD: -fconstant-cfstrings (which we have none of).
04:09.26pra5adtowels?
04:09.27pra5adheh
04:09.42brlcadbikes, ellipticals, treadmills, freeweights, cables, aerobic room, various machines
04:09.49brlcadshowers, lockers, towels
04:10.02brlcadboth supply towels
04:10.04pra5ado.o
04:10.06``Erikcool
04:10.31``Erikof course, most of my gym time was in mat rooms for sparring, heh
04:10.47pra5adfencing?
04:10.53``Erikno
04:11.01pra5adkarate?
04:11.05brlcadlots of folk you'd recognize go to the close one, not so frequent on the far one
04:11.09``Erikke, etc
04:11.14``Erikcloser to karate
04:11.21pra5adah
04:11.30brlcadmore "fit" folk in the main gym
04:11.40pra5adahso
04:11.47``Erikso pussies like me should hit the near one
04:11.51brlcadheh
04:11.57pra5adsean goes to the main one for the ladies
04:12.06``Erikand that's horribly wrong if you're going for nihongo, prasad
04:12.26brlcadpra5ad: no, that's why I still have my bally's membership
04:12.28pra5adand the right way is?
04:12.36pra5adhah nice =)
04:12.36``Erikaso
04:12.44``Erikaso desu
04:12.45pra5adsee, noone would get that
04:12.58pra5adwell but noone i mean no american
04:13.06``Erikhey, bitch
04:13.08``ErikI'm american
04:13.10``Erikand I get it
04:13.13pra5adme too! wtf
04:13.13``Erikano baka kuso ttaro
04:13.15``Erikttare
04:13.24``Eriksumimasen, 'ttare'
04:13.39pra5adsorry, <what?> ?
04:13.44pra5ader excuse me
04:13.47``Erikheh
04:13.56pra5adwhat's the 2nd word
04:13.58brlcadthis whole half/third of the planet is "american"
04:14.01``Eriktarre, not tarro
04:14.08``Erikeh?
04:14.18pra5adoh lol
04:14.24pra5adi didnt see the quotes
04:14.26``Erikyou mean a third of the planet is chinese... like, less than a tenth is american, no?
04:14.59pra5adbokuwa namaewa ...
04:15.17``Erikboku wa namae wa?
04:15.37``Erikwhich is a degredate form of "anata no o'namae wa nani desu ka"
04:15.38pra5adis that 'my name is (masculine)' ?
04:15.49``Erikyeah, masculine/rude
04:16.01brlcadi mean like there's like north, central, and south american folk -- with large portions not nearly as ignorant as half the northerner ones ;)
04:16.31``Eriker, wait
04:16.32``Eriksorry
04:16.34``Eriknot anata
04:16.41pra5adsean's south american?
04:16.43brlcad~tr en jp hello moto
04:16.45``Erik'wakashi', or formally, 'wakuzashi'
04:16.59``Erikiirc
04:17.16``Erikmeh
04:17.26pra5adanata is 'dear/darling' no?
04:17.26``ErikI don't rememeber... time for yet another shot of 151.
04:17.28brlcad~x en jp hello moto
04:17.31``Erikit doesn't even burn anymore
04:17.36``Erik"anata" is "you"
04:17.46``Eriksecond person indicator
04:17.56pra5advery familiar 'you'
04:18.13``Erikno, medium ground "you"
04:18.24pra5adi swear ive only heard women say that
04:18.40pra5adusually in a romantic context
04:18.44pra5ad*shrug*
04:18.47``Erikwomen's degredate is "an'ta", regular formal is anata
04:19.12``ErikI don't recall males degredate, perhaps ana
04:19.24pra5adorewa ?
04:19.35``Erik(indicating that the recipient is more a thing htan a person)
04:19.38``Erik"are-wa"?
04:19.45pra5admebe
04:19.58``Erik'are wa' means "that thing"
04:20.20pra5addamn i shouldn't have stopped work on the manga translator
04:20.29``Erik(third person, inanimate or highly offensive)
04:20.42``Eriklike, today, I said "are wa baka kuso ttare"
04:20.46``Erikthat's highly offensive
04:20.48``Erik:D
04:21.22``ErikI think the literal translation is "that thing has shit around its asshole"
04:24.29``Eriker, wait, sorry
04:24.44``Erikano is thing, are, is third person
04:24.50``Erikkore, sore, are, ...
04:25.07``Erik(kore being myself, sore being you, are, being third person)
04:25.30``Erik<-- drinks more 151 and notes that only 1 shot remains in the bottle *pout*
04:26.02``Erik(and shut up, it's been a decade)
04:29.37``Erikmal, efnet
04:29.59pra5admm coke zero
04:42.23CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use -Wnewline-eof instead of -fconstant-cfstrings as the 'benign' search_paths_first flag to be less confusing and perhaps even slightly useful -- the flag warns about files missing the trailing newline
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05:39.03pra5adhmm left + right mouse buttons down == middle button
05:39.54pra5adcould this be an OS setting that sdl picked up?
05:42.00MaloeranSounds like X's setting for emulation of middle-click, yes
05:43.36pra5adi also cant poll the mouse wheel outside an sdl_pollevents loop (apparently this works; havent tried it)
05:43.55pra5adhave you played around with mouse wheel + sdl?
05:45.53MaloeranOnly middle clicks, not wheel events
05:46.11pra5ad=(
05:46.45pra5adthe button state vector isnt being updated after a sdl_getmousestate
05:47.34MaloeranThe "button state vector" ?
05:49.58pra5adsdl_getmousestate returns a uint8
05:50.41pra5ad5 lower bits are for the 5 'buttons' (3 buttons + wheel has an up and down state)
05:51.26MaloeranSure I know that, but what is the "button state vector"?
05:52.16pra5adthe uint8 returned by sdl_getmousestate... ?
05:53.14MaloeranHum okay, I don't think "vector" was the appropriate term :)
05:53.36pra5adsorry, didn't know i was butchering the english language
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07:50.50lachygdoes brlcad compile under cygwin?  are there any problems under windows?
12:28.11brlcadlachyg: it should and has been fully compiled under cygwin before, though it has been a couple months since I've done it myself
12:29.03brlcadthe only significant problem that comes to mind is that you can't render into the graphics window, but you can render into a regular framebuffer
12:55.10brlcadcompilation-wise, any problems you run into should be rather trivial and easy to get working regardless
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051110

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051110

00:06.10*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:06.10*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
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00:11.01*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software!
01:27.16``Erikfuck, cooked out another power supply
01:28.20``Erik(and 'button state vector' is legitimate english... vector is a highly overloaded term)
01:28.59``Erikprasad, don't listen to mals assertations about english, the damn frog barely speaks it ;) *duck*
01:29.30``Erikand mal, sorry, didn't get a chance to ask today, will try to remember tomorrow...
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05:02.24MaloeranReally, ``Erik? My mistake then, I don't see any definition of "vector" known to me that applies in the context... Better grab a dictionary on that one, thanks
09:59.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: (log message trimmed)
09:59.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: simplify the summary printing at the end, where a separation line comprised of
09:59.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: asterisks is output with a length based on the dynamic length of the 'brl-cad is
09:59.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: installed here' line. the motivation for the change is due to the peculiar
09:59.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: difference in the behavior of bsd make vs gnu make. performing a mathematical
09:59.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: expr that evaluates to zero (e.g. expr 3 - 3) causes expr to return a non-zero
09:59.33CIA-12BRL-CAD: return value causing bsdmake to think something failed, even though we are in
10:02.06brlcadthat's been in need of a squishing for some time now I suppose
10:02.32brlcadall for the sake of pretty printing
10:08.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.BSD: (log message trimmed)
10:08.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: comment on the 'libtool: install: warning: ... .la ... has not been installed
10:08.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: in' warnings being spewed by libtool due to some libtool bug that fails to
10:08.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: install the .la files. this bug is not bsd specific, but considerably more
10:08.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: frequently observed on bsd since ports has had a never version of libtool for
10:08.16CIA-12BRL-CAD: some time now. seems to be a bug in the newest versions and may be related to
10:08.18CIA-12BRL-CAD: not using LT_INIT or using the slightly older libtool.m4 with the newest.
10:41.44CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
10:41.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: no longer install tclsh/wish, use btclsh/bwish. this simplifies our scripting
10:41.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: consistency and gives better knowledge over whose tools are being invoked, aside
10:41.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: from also being able to customize the command processing, providing brl-cad tcl
10:41.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: commands, and auto-loading our required packages. this was done in 7.4.0
10:48.52*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
10:48.52*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
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21:05.35AchiestDragonback in a bit , as in sometime between 4 hrs and 5 days depending how long this reinstall takes , when its finished thease burning these iso's
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051111

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051111

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03:54.05pra5ad_``Erik, u around?
03:54.17pra5ad_brlcad, learner
03:57.53learnersup g
04:10.35pra5ad_undecipherable g++ output
04:11.02pra5ad_changed one file and it's spewing errors from files not related to that source
04:11.35learner~pastebin
04:11.37ibotit has been said that pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca/
04:11.37pra5ad_sec, stepping through the diff
04:28.57``Erikprobably didn't put a semicolon at the end of a class header file o.O that always stings me
04:34.34pra5adtwas my unsafe used of s///
04:34.52pra5ads/used/use/g
04:34.57pra5adaw crap
04:36.13pra5adwait.. spoke too soon
04:37.46pra5addammit
04:37.52pra5adcurlie bracket it is
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04:46.12tex9745list
04:47.55Maloerangcc produce warnings about unbalanced counts of brackets in a file, I thought, assuming -Wall
05:02.20*** topic/#brlcad by learner -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.4 to be released this weekend (Nov 11th)
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21:30.29CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (15 files): convert STATIC to static and obliterate the NDEBUG hacks now that it's consistent provided throughout the package via configure
21:34.59CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (autogen.sh bench/run.sh sh/vers.sh): more consistency between the tail/head checking for the functionality of -n. check for head and tail separately
21:42.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fbstretch.c gif-fb.c): get rid of the NDEBUG hacking, configure provides for it now. clean up the include/header ws
21:44.48CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: hide a malformed Tk erorr that ends up missing a newline between statements. since this is inherintly a Tk application, just remove that part of the interpreter result (loosing those few bytes of memory, but only once)
21:52.07CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for strtok
21:53.58CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strtok.c: initial strtok.c file pulled/moved from src/lgt, with proper libsysv inclusion testing and some cleanup.
21:54.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: add strtok.c
21:59.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c:
21:59.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: append the brl-cad bin directory to the end of the user's PATH during run-time
21:59.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: to allow binaries to be automatically located without the user needing to append
21:59.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: our location to their environment. this will let the user invoke any brl-cad
21:59.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: binary on the mged command-line even through an exec.
22:00.25CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/strtok.c: strtok.c was moved to libsysv
22:01.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: mged now adds our bin dir to the user search path so that subcommands like rt and company work as expected without path problems
22:57.32brlcad_cvs hasn't been working all day until just then
22:57.44brlcad_compile-testing now
23:05.28*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051112

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051112

00:07.04pra5adis adding a null char in a static string bad form? (gcc warning)
00:07.34Twingywhy are you doing that?
00:08.06pra5addoes it append a sentinel to the end automagically?
00:08.43Twingystrcpy(string, "blah");  sprintf(string, "%s", "blah"); both append null to the end
00:08.59pra5adthose arent static strings
00:09.08Twingy"blah" is
00:09.33pra5adit's not sprintf that's appending it?
00:09.44Twingyhuh?
00:09.51Twingysprintf add's a null char to the end
00:12.57pra5adalrighty then
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01:56.20Maloerangcc shouldn't give a warning for appending a 0 at the end of a string, unless you used NULL which is meant for pointers
01:56.36MaloeranThough of course, by definition of the C standard, you can use 0 for pointers just as much
02:51.05CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: move the bu_param for irix 64 outside the block so it gets defined, also fix a typo in a ppc section where sysctl return value wasn't getting checked correctly
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04:12.10``Erikheh, prasad is a dork
04:31.10pra5adsprintf(str, "something %d\0", intvar); gives a warning w/ Wall
04:32.18pra5adgcc version 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu9)
04:39.53MaloeranAh yes, a string litteral is defined as already being null terminated, this extra \0 is very pointless...
04:40.29pra5adat compiler time, yes?
04:41.21pra5adguess i didn't parse correctly what justin was saying
04:42.17pra5ads/compiler/compile/
04:43.00pra5ad``Erik, did u make the opengl.m4 updates yet?
04:43.07MaloeranHe meant that sprintf() appends a \0 too
04:46.31pra5adinteresting
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13:53.52CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: missing the damn trailing slash on an extra_dist entry
14:01.23CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: remove the inadvertent m-x 4 f .. extraneous 4 removed
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15:02.46IngManhi
15:03.51brlcadhowdy
15:04.24CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/misc/Makefile.am: another trailing slash missing
15:07.58IngManwhat comands for  measure
15:09.48brlcadmeasuring what?
15:10.40brlcadrtarea will provide presented area measurements, rtweight will give weight/volume/moments measurements, g_qa as well
15:11.35brlcadthe nirt/shoot_ray tool will provide length, thickness, obliquity measurements
15:13.09IngManfor planes,
15:13.54IngMannirt/shoot_ray
15:14.10IngManno work
15:15.58IngManfor "acotar"  planes
15:20.25IngManhi
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15:24.29IngManhi
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15:28.29brlcad~x es en acotar
15:28.48IngManyes
15:29.15IngManwhat command
15:29.35brlcadstill not clear what you are measuring
15:30.52brlcadsi quieres la distancia entre un punto y un objecto, usas nirt
15:31.38IngMana model, i wish see de planes with to limit
15:31.53IngManyo quiero ver los planos de una pieza  acotados
15:33.57brlcadcual planos?
15:34.02brlcadqual
15:34.35brlcadthe bounding box planes?
15:34.37IngManlos de una  pieza
15:35.01brlcadthat doesn't make any sense .. which planes?
15:35.13brlcadi can make a plane anywhere
15:35.30brlcadyou're working in arbitrary 3-space
15:37.14IngManpor ejemplo: yo dibujo una cubo,  quiero que me muestre el plano con las cotas de ese cubo
15:37.15brlcadquiza si dibujas lo que estas pensando..
15:37.47IngManeso pense
15:38.01IngMante mando una imagen por mail
15:38.57IngMantu eres morrison
15:38.59brlcadcon una cubo, tendrias que modelar las cotas con algo.. un halfspace object
15:39.00IngMancierto
15:39.04brlcadsi
15:39.33IngMante mando la imagen al mail que un dia me distte
15:39.39brlcadok
15:43.58IngManlisto
15:44.06IngManrevisa a ver si llego
15:45.14brlcadsi, ya llego
15:45.56brlcadaja.. quieres 'annotations'
15:46.24brlcadacotado .. not to the limit but annotated
15:47.54brlcadbrl-cad does not provide that information graphically right now, but it is being worked on
15:49.32brlcadeso es algo que usalmente encuentras con un 'drafting tool' algo que brl-cad no es pero algo useful regardless
15:52.19brlcadit wouldn't be hard to add annotations to mged, but having them dynamically recompute when you change an object is the somewhat harder aspect as it requires parametrics
15:52.45brlcador some viable means to make the annotations associated with the object that they reference
15:52.46IngMan<PROTECTED>
15:53.31brlcadsi, no ayuda directamente
15:53.44brlcadtodavia
15:54.20IngMany digamos, si tu tubieras que hacerlo que harias
15:54.25brlcades algo que tradicionalmente no hemos necesitado
15:55.12IngManpero cualquier otro programa cad lo hace
15:55.32IngMansolid edge solid work
15:56.13brlcadsi, porque incluyen "cadd" computer-assisted design and drafting ..
15:57.14IngManah, y tu que harias en mi caso
15:57.29brlcadno me entiende mal, yo lo quiero tambien ;-)  solo que nadie lo he necesitado antes que convertio al open source
15:57.58IngMana mi me gusta  mas que otros programas
15:58.09IngManpero tengo la necesidad de hacer eso
15:58.31brlcadyo computaria las distancias a mano usando nirt o el bounding box distances
15:59.31brlcadbrl-cad will import annotations from dxf now
15:59.50brlcadso if you happened to compute them in another package, they should show up I think
16:00.39IngMan<PROTECTED>
16:01.52brlcadpersonalment, si yo lo necesitaba, i'd probably modify the sketch primitive to allow an easy means to write text/numbers ;)
16:02.09brlcadyou can get the bounding box of any object/assembly
16:02.28brlcadthat's often what you are annotating, not the individual solids
16:03.19IngManvoy a probar y te cuento como me fue
16:03.39IngManya enpece con lo de las traducciones de los manuales
16:03.57brlcadexcelente
16:04.36IngManaunque la verdad es que no he tenido mucho tiempo libre, pero espero poder ahora que se acabe el semestre
16:05.01brlcadtambien aqui
16:06.09IngMany en que estan trabajando ahora
16:06.32IngMantu trabajas en brlcad de tiempo compreto
16:06.35brlcadestaba trabajando con annotations hace unas semanas -- usando el 'sketch' primitive por un basis
16:06.36IngMancompleto
16:06.49brlcadsi completo
16:07.30IngManque bien
16:07.33brlcadpero eso incluye _mucho_ tiempo gastado en administracion
16:07.56IngMany cuanto pagan, para ver si cuando termine me voy para brlcad
16:08.17brlcadpolitica y reuniones
16:08.38brlcadjeje
16:08.48IngManno es chiste es mi futuro
16:08.52IngManjajaj
16:08.54brlcadpagan bien ;)
16:09.03IngManno necesitan ing Mecanicos
16:09.40IngManincluir  FEA
16:10.22brlcadsiempre necesitan ingenieros
16:12.33IngMany tu por que hablas español, de donde eres
16:13.40brlcadde Panamá
16:13.51brlcadvivi alli por muchos años
16:14.29brlcadaunque se me va mi español poco a poco cuando no regreso por un tiempo
16:14.59brlcadlo hablo mucho mejor de que lo escribo ;)
16:16.25IngManyo soy de colombia
16:16.42IngMancreo que por ahora me tengo que ir.
16:16.55IngManestamos hablando
16:17.02IngManbye
16:17.03brlcadel mayoría de mi juventud..  que divertido
16:17.10brlcadaja
16:17.26brlcadhasta luego
16:18.06IngMante escribo cuando tenga el manual o cuando tenga mas dudas de brlcad
16:18.14brlcadta bien
17:01.27``Erikuh, burrito taco spaghetti
17:01.48``Erikhas it hit the wire?
17:08.12brlcadwaiting on the damn irix build to confirm testing
17:08.51brlcadtake a few hours, it's been going for a couple
17:09.24brlcadyou should pimp brl-cad to the .jp sites ;)
17:09.52brlcad~x en jp that would be interesting
17:22.15brlcadi really need to get this whole process fully automated
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19:12.56CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: begin release preparations for 7.6.4. add verbose release notes on the new geometry creation interface to mged that reads in point data sets.
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19:13.46xvoomhi 2 all
19:13.52xvoomanyone alive
19:14.01brlcadhowdy
19:15.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): update version to 7.6.4, release preparations under way
19:15.42xvoombrlcad hi
19:15.45xvoomhow r u
19:15.53brlcad~ma
19:15.55ibotrumour has it, ma is milliampere(s).  Morocco
19:16.10brlcadi'm doing great, how about yourself?
19:16.45xvoomibot is a bot
19:17.13xvoomwhy he have to tell my location
19:17.15brlcad~ibot
19:17.16ibotextra, extra, read all about it, ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported.
19:17.29xvoomhehe
19:17.35xvoomk
19:17.42brlcadhe didn't tell your location, your IP address did ;)
19:17.57brlcadi was just wondering where .ma was .. neat ;)
19:18.08xvoomlook im looking for information about a cad software named somthing like anthek
19:18.47brlcaddoesn't ring a bell
19:19.13brlcadthis is the channel for a different cad package ..
19:19.34xvoomyes i know
19:20.04xvoomim just wandering about this package
19:20.33xvoomdo u know any site specialized in cad package
19:20.36brlcadthere is the ANTEC plastics conference, somewhat CAD related
19:21.02xvoomu tried to search on google
19:21.41brlcadnot exactly, I'm not the one looking for it ;)
19:22.08brlcada site specialized in cad packages.. hmm
19:22.09brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAD
19:22.21brlcadthere's a list there somwhere
19:23.12xvoomby the way u coded this package
19:23.15xvoombrlcad
19:23.55brlcadare you asking if I coded brl-cad?
19:24.11brlcadi am one of the core devs
19:24.28brlcadbrl-cad has been under development for over 20 years though too, many people have been involved
19:24.38brlcadmike muuss started the project
19:24.52brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Muuss
19:25.33xvoomhow is the mathematic underlying it ?
19:26.18brlcadit's foundations are based on mathematical principals, very solid
19:27.11brlcadif you're familiar with ray-tracing, brl-cad's primary ray-tracer is the first distributed raytracer that was ever written
19:27.42xvoomcoool
19:27.43brlcadthe preferred modeling technique of CSG is founded in mathematical principals too
19:28.27xvoomi think i will try it in the future r8 now i must learn some cad
19:29.04brlcadbrl-cad's supported primitves: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
19:29.40xvooman that mean
19:29.42brlcadbrl-cad is a solid modeler, not a drafting tool like autocad
19:30.00xvoomsorry
19:30.00xvoomwow
19:30.10xvoomi like it
19:30.18xvooma lot man
19:30.55xvoomdo u know of any training for drafting
19:31.06brlcadmore details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD and here http://brlcad.org under the Documents section
19:31.36brlcadif you're interested in open source drafting, qcad might be a place to look
19:31.36xvoomthank man u r really a good 1
19:32.02xvoomkok
19:32.20xvoomwhere r u from
19:34.32brlcadfrom all over ;)
19:34.48brlcadin the US now
19:35.38xvoomu mean u own coputer all over the world
19:37.12brlcadno, i mean i've lived in several places
19:37.41xvoomand u r origin
19:40.07xvoomsee ya man
19:40.11xvoomlater
19:40.13brlcadcheers
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20:38.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: changelog entries since 7.4.0 (7.4.2 only included the patched files)
20:59.38CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bah, the version is in two places .. should maybe change that sometime
23:14.09``Erikghah, ibot is in perl? and permitted in chan???
23:28.49Twingymmm perl goodness
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051113

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051113

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01:31.35brlcad``Erik: heh
01:32.24brlcadfor better or worse, ibot is filled with tons of factoids from over the years, hard to compete with that
01:33.24brlcadon the other hand Guu is in python, which while improved is mainly lacking in user interface (i.e. she's a pain in the ass to talk to unless you know/speak her command set)
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02:37.11Twingyon the other hand I have 4 fingers and an opposable thumb
03:29.21``ErikSammy says hiiiii
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13:46.40CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/ (1801 files in 120 dirs): merge changes from HEAD aka rel-7-6-4 to the rel-7-6-branch just in case someone peeks a gander or tries to continue/build the branch
13:48.55brlcadheh, boom
14:05.36AchiestDragon:) 130 emails for that commit  
14:09.26AchiestDragon117 rather
14:11.25brlcadjust a couple.. ;)
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17:45.33CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/ (193 files in 26 dirs): more merging changes from HEAD aka rel-7-6-4 to the rel-7-6-branch, adding the items that were moved and resolving rcs keyword conflicts
17:59.56CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Makefile.am: bad cvs merge, no donut for you
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18:22.59CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (31 files in 12 dirs): merge the rel-7-6-branch merging removals of some of the rcs vars that don't seem so useful right now
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051114

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051114

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08:46.48lachyghow do I translate an object using the command line?
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19:52.49PKMOBILEargh whenever i have the time to seriously work on the site something on sourceforge HAS to be down
20:10.44learnerlachyg, tra command
20:10.58learnertra, rot, and sca for translate, rotate, and scale respectively
20:11.35learneryou'll need to be in edit mode so either sed or oed if it's a solid or combination
20:28.04PKMOBILEhttp://brlcad.org/drupal/
20:28.10PKMOBILEargh!!!!!
20:32.14brlcadyeah, that happened last week when sourceforge performed the mysql server migrations
20:32.45brlcadwe have to use a different host/user iirc, forget the details
20:34.43PKMOBILEdo you have em somewhere?
20:34.54brlcadwoah
20:34.57brlcadnew sourceforge site just went live
20:35.13PKMOBILEyeah ive got mixed feelings about it
21:03.31PKMOBILEfarewell ye IRC goers
21:03.37PKMOBILEi shall return
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21:12.12brlcadhello josel
21:24.18CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: dammit! remove the mged_finish() debug line so mged does not terminate early
21:28.30CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: merge bogus abort removal from HEAD
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051115

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051115

02:10.09CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: should probably learn how to spell my name right
03:08.43CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/NEWS: merge spelling fix from HEAD
03:11.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/ReadMe.rtfd/TXT.rtf: update to 7.6.4, fix whitespace formatting of the urls
03:12.05CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/Welcome.rtfd/TXT.rtf: update to 7.6.4
03:22.58CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/iges.sh: fix path to iges, now in conv subdir
03:28.06CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: disable the path modification as the putenv seems to confuse tcl
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07:34.57lachyghow do I get out of edit mode?
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10:20.34brlcadlachyg: 'reject' or 'accept' commands, or 'press reject' and 'press accept'
10:21.02brlcadif you're in the graphics window, the 'q' key is bound to 'press reject'
11:29.14lachygbrlcad, okay, thanks
13:11.46brlcadthere's also 'apply' like on the menus
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051116

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051116

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02:32.17``Eriko.O
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03:57.24brlcadjoevalleyfield: ping
05:21.12pra5adpong?
05:21.45``Erikare you joevalleyfield, prasad? no? then stfu.
05:21.45``Erik:D
05:30.40pra5addrunk again?
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17:11.38``Erikping -f -c 9999 -s 65490 joevalleyfield
17:12.02``Erik:-D
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18:26.12``ErikAIEEEE!
18:26.55brlcadwoot
18:27.10``Erikget all the lappies you need, sean?
18:42.01brlcadyeah, got 5
18:42.06brlcadshould be plenty
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051117

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051117

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00:27.04setuidping
00:28.02AchiestDragonpong
00:29.49AchiestDragon:( hate server splits , got to wait for my text to speech to finish speaking about 200 nick join and part events  
00:35.20setuidI'm putting BRL-CAD up as a case study for the Open Power project... wanted to ask some questions
00:35.28setuidSean submitted it
00:44.15AchiestDragonneed to speek to him about that , or one of the other devs here , thay sould be arround but sometimes its a while before thay check for new messages in irc
00:48.16setuidOk, I'll just sort of reword his submission a little bit and submit it
00:59.25``Erik?
01:01.24setuida'ight
01:01.28AchiestDragonwell me just beeing a lowly beta tester for a part that isnt in cvs yet then i dont know too much about it
01:01.42setuidI'll throw something together, I can be eloquent..
01:02.18setuidHrm, I don't see mention of what the license is
01:06.34AchiestDragonit included in the source
01:06.44setuidSo what is the license?
01:06.56AchiestDragonhttp://www.rafb.net/paste/results/wQ3Ph311.html  
01:07.47AchiestDragoni pasted it ther for you , but that is what is included in the source distribution
01:10.07setuidGreat, thanks...
01:10.12setuidWould be nice if that was clearly stated on the website
01:10.30AchiestDragonshould pont out that link will only be valid for a few days , if you need a more perminent copy of the licence it is in the source or sean can send you one  
01:10.42setuidNope, just need to know so I can include that in the case study
01:27.45setuidOk, how does this sound:
01:28.56setuidhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/RxEZ9L91.html
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01:45.02AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
01:49.16AchiestDragonnot shure if sean would want to high light some other developemts that are in the pipeline , like the new frontend "archer" and other work that is going on (that is not in cvs or the distribution as yet)
05:52.52brlcadsetuid: howdy
05:55.00brlcadexcellent, glad to hear it about going up as a case study and feel free to rewordsmith it -- could go into more detail as well, but I wasn't sure how much or little information was desired
05:57.06brlcadsetuid: brl-cad is a rather large codebase with separate portions under separate licenses -- the COPYING file from the source distribution that AchiestDragon pasted starts out by saying "it's gpl" but in reality "portions are gpl, lgpl, gfdl/gpl, bsd, and public domain"
05:57.57brlcadthe website doesn't mention this simply because that was a quick website that was posted when the package was first open sources less than a year ago, a more comprehensive and informative website is under development
06:00.29brlcadthe legalities to fall fairly neatly into categories for the most part forunately -- the intent is to be as flexible as possible while encouraging contributions too only -- so the binaries are gpl, the libraries are lgpl, the documentation is selectably gfdl or gpl if it's not already public domain, the build system and support scripts are bsd or public domain depending on the script
06:03.10brlcadthe fact that the libraries are not gpl, but lgpl is very important to most of our primary users (so I wouldn't just say it's gpl in the write-up)
06:03.46brlcadit's "over 20 years" in development (21 or 26 depending on when you start counting)
06:07.52brlcadsetuid, I'd prefer not publishing that particular e-mail if you do submit it, there are others that would be better suited like morrison at brlcad dot org -- not a big issue either way, though.
06:12.56brlcadlast thing I'd suggest changing is to say that BRL-CAD is Open Source software with portions covered by the GPL, LGPL, and BSD licenses.
06:28.09setuidI'm here
06:28.24setuidWas just putting a coat of paint on the livingroom
06:29.11setuidbrlcad, What would be nice, is to have a 'What problem we had', 'What solutions we tried', 'Why we settled on POWER' or something like that... but I can forge up something like that.
06:30.22brlcadhmm
06:31.10brlcadthat could be somewhat tricky -- the problem is more one of exposure and os/hardware combinations (which I think I went into somewhat in the original submission)
06:32.00setuidok
06:32.11brlcadi actually have access to power4 and 5 machines, huge ones, but not any running debian -- the particular combination of debian on a 64 bit ppc showed some compilation issues that we were able to fix once exposed to the machine
06:33.03setuid*nod*
06:33.08setuidDid you try the Gentoo and SuSE ones?
06:33.53brlcadcan't exactly say we "settled on power", although it is one of my personal favorite architectures if only by the beauty of the interprocess communication architecture and shared levels of cache memory
06:34.14brlcadbleh, inter-processor
06:34.46setuidOh, don't let me twist your arm, I have no allegence per-se, but 'case studies' generally have the flow of 'problem, ideas, solution'. No need to box you into that model if it doesn't fit.
06:37.17brlcadyeah, i'm not so sure it fits in this case -- brl-cad has historically had a philosophy of compiling successfully on everything we can get our hands on, making for incredibly portable code that runs on some really old and isoteric hardware (think pre-tcp/ip, machines that aren't little or big endian, etc)
06:38.19brlcadand all the while, scaling up from single processor to vast multiprocessor architectures -- providing a good means to evaluate an smp architecture's scaling efficiency using real-world application metrics
06:44.37setuidYep
06:45.28brlcadin this case, we were given the opportunity and access to build our code on a platform that we didn't presently have on hand -- this allowed us to resolve compilation issues on a conveniently fast machine and afforded the opportunity to test that platform's scalability performance (which is excellent and boils down to core business decisions for the military often)
06:47.17setuidI'll bubble this up into something coherent tomorrow... need sleep now =)
06:47.20setuidThanks again
06:47.38brlcadnow I can't make any official statements about ARL or the military, or their infrastructure business practices and how they relate to BRL-CAD with any great detail, but I can say that the BRL-CAD benchmark does give an excellent metric
06:47.49brlcadnot a problem, thanks to you and your group
06:47.59brlcadthe resource is great to have
06:48.34brlcadif I could install into system space, I'd be making our binary ppc linux releases off of it ;)
06:49.13brlcadcheers and g'night!
06:50.38setuidWe might actually talk again about that... a BRL-CAD ppc64 build (rpm for SuSE 9/10 or RHEL 3/4) satisfies a request from another group internally
07:03.02brlcadI'd be more than happy to and of course interested as well, not to mention interested in what the internal group's BRL-CAD usage is as well
07:05.24setuidIts more of a way to promote it to other clients, partners, stuff like that.
07:05.39setuidKind of a "See? BRL-CAD even ships with a ppc64-specific build..."
07:15.55brlcadi'm not sure i'm fully aware of the other machines (suse, rhel, gentoo that you've mentioned) being available too as part of the openpower project
07:16.47brlcadi'm only familiar with tick and the peking server
07:17.12setuidPortland is online, probably not advertised yet
07:20.08brlcadI'll have to keep an eye out for it then, thanks
07:21.11brlcadbeen nice chatting with you, nice to meet you -- feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions, or hang around or stop by here again too
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10:14.44AchiestDragonbrlcad:   was only going on the information in the included file re copying , if it is not the case then i think that file needs to be updated
10:17.04AchiestDragonbefore someone starts distributing the code in a distribution under a global gpl and failing to be aware of the multiple licensing of the individual parts
10:18.30AchiestDragonlike sony for example :P (re DRM root kit including unlicensed use of gpl and lgpl code )
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11:55.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.4 to be released this weekend (Nov 11th)
12:18.55brlcadAchiestDragon: no worries, you didn't do anything wrong -- if you keep reading that long file it states (hopefully very clearly) exactly what is meant
12:20.31AchiestDragonk, just that it needs a better explanation at the top , so it doesnt just get a quick scan of the first few paragraphs and a concusion drawn that its gpl from that
12:21.23AchiestDragonso that the point is made near the begining not at the end
12:21.24brlcadit just starts out saying gpl intentionally both as a catch-all to safeguard cases not carefully worded below where someone tries to take more liberty than was intended
12:23.44brlcadIt probably does need a sentence more early on, but it can't go into too much detail without giving someone undue leeway about what applies to what
12:23.46AchiestDragonout of interest how much of the code is not gpl (lgpl) and has retrictions that could casues big problems if it was not able to be included in a gpl distribution , in that the program would not function
12:24.55brlcadif I understand your question correctly, none of brl-cad
12:25.10AchiestDragonwith kttsd , and festival its a simalar case , in that
12:25.34brlcadgpl is the most restrictive getting more and more flexible with other parts that are lgpl, bsd, and public domain
12:26.03brlcadnow there are several packages that use brl-cad's libraries
12:26.11AchiestDragonfestival has to be downloaded seperatly , and if you need mobrola voices you need a seperate download for that , and nether can be distributed as part of kde
12:26.16brlcadthat amounts to a LOT of code, but is not brl-cad
12:27.00AchiestDragonk
12:29.23brlcadthe spirit of the licenses chosen was to encourage the community to contribute back to brl-cad when possible, but not limit use -- whatever that use may be even if commercial or private so long as we don't end up in a situation where someone forks, makes improvements, and doesn't return those changes to the community
12:30.04AchiestDragonjust that i think maybe when some of the packagers get round to including it in distributions that thay may need the code to be grouped into gpl, lgpl .. etc  so thay may include or not parts that there distribution licenseing will allow  
12:30.06brlcad(public improvements, of course)
12:30.19AchiestDragonmaybe why it is not already
12:31.06brlcadi don't think that is the case -- at worst the entire package can be treated as gpl
12:31.08AchiestDragontend to aggree , and if writing code for a program i prefer to use the existing licence for that program
12:31.47brlcadexactly, gpl/lgpl were chosen for familiarity and usefulness, not to push the gnu/fsf agenda
12:32.16brlcadif we need to hand out tailored licenses, that is possible as well
12:33.56brlcadby the way, with regard to the packaging distributions, I've been in touch with most of them -- the only licensing issue that came up was with debian and their prohibition of the gfdl on documentation
12:34.32brlcadin which we accommodated, hence why the user gets to choose whether they want gfdl or gpl on documentation if it's not public domain already
12:34.48AchiestDragonk
12:35.05brlcadthe delay has otherwise been rather technical related to entirely different installation methodologies/practices
12:35.36brlcadbrl-cad has always used a private installation root given it's size and several conflicts that can occur
12:36.38brlcadseveral of our core libraries conflict with other common libraries so a lot of effort has been going into the build system to work around a centralized installation hierarchy to a distributed one
12:37.14AchiestDragonk
12:38.27brlcadan example, one of the core freebsd devs is a brl-cad dev as well but getting brl-cad into the frebsd ports packaging system has taken many months and still isn't fully integrated even now
12:38.54AchiestDragonthink its one of the failing points of the difernt distros using diferent locations for some main components
12:40.08brlcadthe biggest problem you run into is usually conflict resolution, especially if the conflict cannot practically be resolved
12:40.27brlcadbrl-cad's core libraries for example, libbu, libbn, and librt
12:41.00brlcadthose are libraries that have been around for over 20 years, there is a community of developers and users that have come to know them and expect their interfaces
12:41.41brlcadyet if I install any one of those three into /usr/lib on a given OS, there is a chance I will clobber someone else who has a library of the same name
12:43.33brlcadanyhow, the short skimmy of it all is that it means a lot more work has to go into configurable installation schemes for the packaging systmes that limits possibilities for naming collisions (which most package systems don't prevent in the least, but often provide means to try to limit them from happening if you go through hoops)
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16:31.42``Erikmyorp
17:00.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/TableView.tcl: Tweek updateVscroll method: put a catch around "after idle" command
17:07.33CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add exportVrml method
17:12.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: Fixed typo (i.e. errantly dereferenced a variable)
17:14.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to 0.7.1
17:25.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug: Mods for multiple selection
17:29.41CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Mods to silence the debug runtime checker
17:32.36CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (base/tkimg.c pngtcl/pngtcl.c zlibtcl/zlibtcl.c): Added seperate init routine for debug mode
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17:36.01CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl_win.c: Fixed a line of code that was trashing the stack. Other minor mods.
17:46.19CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA/TankWizardIA.tcl: vectorAdd and vectorScale moved to tclscripts/archer/Wizard.tcl
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17:53.25CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (16 files in 16 dirs): Update debug version
17:56.46CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/dbupgrade/.cvsignore: Initial check-in
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051118

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051118

00:00.51``Erikpra5ad: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20051117/gabb_01.shtml
00:10.54CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/ (points_parse.y points_scan.l process.c): add support for CYL and SPHERE lines, hook in to the callbacks
00:13.37CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: update of point parsing to include support for pipes cyls and sphere
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01:11.08*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.4 is released || Developer meeting on Friday Nov 17!
01:11.21brlcadhmm
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01:15.49brlcadis this thing on?
01:16.04brlcadwoot, silly logging junk
01:39.13``ErikO.o
01:49.10``Erikgrar.
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01:52.24ageis anyone in the channel using the BRL on windows?
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02:39.05brlcadage: yes
02:39.41brlcadthough it's only intended for developers still.. "soon" one will be posted
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03:06.11``Erikheh, it's justin! http://www.scarygoround.com/?date=20050608  :D
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05:50.13polyspinHey there!
05:51.24polyspinIs the code for the vulcan working?
09:41.27CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: aclocal will fail with an autom4te error if cache is way out of date .. probably should just obliterate the cache dir on autogen regardless, but try this for now
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10:17.41CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.h: condense points doesn't need tolerance
10:18.47CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: fix an off-by-one in the 5+-point removal where the last point wasn't getting removed. condense points doesn't need tolerance. add some debug printing to verify condense_points.
11:32.39CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: remove cache dir
11:35.15MaloeranEven performing updates at 5-6h in the morning, brlcad? :) That's admirable dedication
11:39.16brlcadgood stuff
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12:15.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: prevent a crash if someone attempts to export an empty pipe
12:18.51CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: yuck, delete points was returning the count deleted not the total remaining .. we need to know how many remain. separate out the debug printing from the printing of the objects from the creation of the objects
12:21.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: don't free null pointers (empty segment lists on pipes)
13:54.37CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: add functionality to create simple points (with a fixed size for now)
14:13.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: off by one error in the group processing, include the last point\!
14:14.17CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: off by one error, missing the last point when making point sets. make points with a 1mm diameter.
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14:14.59docelicHello
14:55.12CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: off by one on the end marker
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20:15.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/main.c: close the dang file and make sure it opened before hopping into feof so we don't crash
21:29.16CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: rewrite of the multigroup process handler where jason found lots of nastiness and fixed it for me :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051119

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051119

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17:47.47CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: Changes to add debugging plot file generation
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051120

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04:50.09cad200i just installed brlcad on my mac osx but i can't figure out how to open the program???
04:58.55cad200ok i just relized that i don't have x11
04:59.15cad200i don't want xll or brl cad
04:59.33cad200how can i uninstall brlcad
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06:15.48CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: simplify the autom4te.cache management by deleting the directory if it exists. this should prevent aclocal and automake from failing when there is an out of date or corrupted cache.
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14:21.43CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: autogen.sh blows away the cache directory, need to fix the mged path problem
14:30.46CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: don't forget to update the version number in include/config_win.h after release
14:35.58CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac include/config_win.h): bad me, no donut for me -- should have updated the version numbers to the next version (7.6.5) after the cvs was tagged
18:01.37pra5adsean
18:01.39pra5adbrlcad,
18:01.45pra5adare u in tomorrow?
18:03.26pra5adk
18:03.42pra5adneed to setup my mac w/ radmine (sp?)
18:03.48``Erik_radmind
18:03.53pra5ad:)
18:04.15pra5adalso i think the new linux box needs a dual-link vid card
18:04.18``ErikI have my mac up now, I can give you the bundle and any server info
18:04.42pra5adcos the kvm isn't working w/ single-link afaik
18:10.17pra5adis there a trick to it?
18:10.26``Eriksean, your coloc is beefy, right?
18:11.12``Erikprasad: if there is, I've not discovered it... like if I kvm switch my fbsd box, it won't light up the display, but if I reboot the fbsd box while lit ont he kvm, it brings the screen up... I just enabled sshd on the fbsd box and use ssh/remoteX now :(
18:11.33pra5adah
18:12.13``Erik(and my g5 is set up to start X11 on boot)
18:12.25pra5adive got an uncomfortable setup right now; the mouse/kb are through the kvm, but the display is connected to the dell lcd (shared w/ windows)
18:12.44``Erikwhy not just run second kbd/mouse?
18:13.32pra5adthey're only connected to the win box; i want the mac/linux boxen on the same kvm :(
18:13.55pra5adi guess i can use ssh
18:15.29``Erikabout all the interface stuff I use on my fbsd boxen now would be xmms... the mac does everything else I need, *shrug* spoze I could use itunes, if I wanted
18:18.31brlcad``Erik: it's not a coloc, it's dedicated
18:18.44brlcadbut yes, it's fairly beefy net-wise
18:22.51``Erikah, I have an, uh, idea for an app :) probably start out very crud, d'no if i wanna abuse my alma mater with it
18:24.33``Erikshould be light on the net side, and the memory side, but may do some cpu crunch for graph traversal (shortest path type stuff)
18:25.11brlcadone-time sort of crunching on per-web-access or something?
18:25.20brlcadcan always toss it up and see
18:25.55``Erikhm, I forgot my nickserv password, otherwise I'd msg ya what it is :)
18:26.40brlcadgood time to figure out how I can disable that filtering anyways.. hold on
18:28.01brlcadthere, try pm'ing
19:50.42*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
19:50.42*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051121

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051121

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01:24.51``Erik*yawn*
01:28.24``Erikyes, sean, I realized that :)
01:28.27``Erikwork is retarding me.
01:28.54``Eriksysutils/uptimed and lang/gauche
01:30.07``Erikuptimed give you uptime records with some neat stuff like milestone notifications, etc... so your awesome uptimes aren't lost forever when the janitor kicks the cord
01:30.13``Erikand lang/gauche, well, I want my scheme ;)
01:30.38brlcadsounds good to me
01:31.18brlcadprobaby a good time to portupgrade -Ra too ..
01:31.24``Erik-Raus
01:31.27``Erikwell
01:31.27brlcadmaybe later tonight
01:31.30``Eriksudo -Rau
01:31.33``Erik:)
01:31.50``Erikooh, that reminds me, I'm gonna do sysutils/pkg_cutleaves, too
01:32.05brlcadnever heard of it
01:32.17``Erikpkg_cutleaves -l  <-- will display all ports installed that are not dependancies for other ports
01:32.26``Erikand it has an interactive mode that lets you cull down your pkg list
01:33.07brlcadwhy would one cull down your pkg list?
01:33.38``ErikI've installed shit to try something, then forgot it *shrug*
01:34.18brlcadah
01:34.40``Erikalso; similiar uses as "deborphan"
01:34.54``Erikif you've done much serious debian admin
01:35.38``Erikit's my favorite leenewx, but I haven't tried gentoo or ubuntoo yet
01:36.17``Erikwoops, ruby is getting upgraded here
01:36.53brlcadupgrades are fine, so long as it doesn't clobber or break existing stuff
01:37.23``Erikhopefully not :)
01:37.31``Erikthat reminds me
01:38.15``Erikpurdue hosts anoncvs for fbsd, their machine ate part of itself, so anoncvs is gone right now... I talked to the admins, "greg" says that parts are on order and the parts will be in next week...
01:38.31``Erikonce that's back, I'll send-pr brlcad 7.6.4 for fbsd
01:38.49``Erikand submit a pkg to the sf site
01:38.59brlcadcool deal
01:39.18brlcadthere's one patch to make to the source tarball potentially
01:39.29``Erikhrmmmmm
01:39.41``ErikI know there's be considerable changes, since I'll be using the system tcl now...
01:39.56brlcada quick test of an mged build will tell you if it works or not
01:40.05brlcadif it runs, it works ;)
01:40.15``Erikwell, that's the trivial part... the hard part is the pkg-plist
01:40.24brlcadif it doesn't, have to add a 0 && to a line in src/mged/ged.c
01:40.47``Erikif it doesn't work, I'll talk to ya
01:41.16brlcadhopefully this cvsup doesn't bork your portupgrade..
01:41.29``Erikummmmm
01:41.29``Erikhrm
01:41.51``Erikthere wasn't much in the update list... I think I'm on the last package, so probly not
01:42.22brlcadit's only up to ports/lang so far
01:42.34brlcadports/mail
01:43.03brlcadmisc
01:43.15brlcadmultimedia
01:43.24brlcadnet
01:43.26``ErikI'll tell ya when mine is done, then you can do the portupgrade...
01:43.33brlcadlike ticking timebomb :)
01:43.53``ErikI intend to bring most if not all our work machines to 60, btw
01:44.35``Erikthe clusters already run it, it's the fs's that need updating...
01:44.53``Erikand those highly deviant zen labs boxen
01:45.40brlcadpast sysutils
01:46.40brlcadall done
01:46.58brlcadeh, ruby just coredumped
01:47.34``Erikdoing what?
01:48.12``Eriktry removing INDEX.db ?
01:48.13brlcadno idea, ruby18
01:48.22``Erik(did you try running portupgrade?)
01:48.38brlcadit didn't crash on ME.. just a process on the system crashed
01:48.45``Erikhrm
01:48.53brlcadi just see the core dump notifications
01:49.55brlcadportupgrade is written in ruby?  never noticed
01:50.15``Erikyup
01:50.29``Erikseems to be chunkin' along for me
01:51.28``Erikguess i'm doing the portupgrade for ya
01:51.51brlcadahh, you did add -a, yeah
01:52.46MaloeranInteresting, Gentoo's portage written in Python sure is pathetically slow
01:53.36``ErikI don't think python is inherently slow, but it may be poorly coded... :)
01:54.13brlcadcompiled bootstrap, python, and shell tools optimized?
01:54.24brlcaddefault isn't exactly the best set of optimization options
01:56.46``Erikhttp://funroll-loops.org/ makes me nervous to try gento
01:56.48``Eriko
01:57.03MaloeranSure, all optimized and on amd64, I'm just amazed how slow it can be
01:57.39``Erikhrmmmmm, I've seen "more" optimization produce significantly slower executables o.O
02:03.24``Erikheh, I got some for the wench, and she decided she didn't like it anymore *sigh*
02:05.25brlcadthat's succulent ;)
02:06.01``Erikhold the olives???
02:06.04``Erikyou FREAK
02:06.19brlcadmore optimization producing slower execs sounds like a gcc4ism or otherwise buggy compiler ;)
02:06.46MaloeranI'm not sure, we would have to benchmark against this royal couscous with merguez and sublime lamb :)
02:06.48``Erik3 did it, too... probably related to cache misses or something
02:07.39MaloeranCompilers don't really know what's the fastest solution, sometimes -Os prove fastest as it makes the whole algorithm fit in L1 cache
02:08.11``Erikmaybe
02:09.14brlcadthat's the problem, they SHOULD know .. call it a bug or compiler inadequacy -- they know the hardware they are compiling on, it shouldn't get slower
02:09.59MaloeranThere's so much that compilers can't know regarding the code execution, I don't think it would be possible without collecting abundant statistics and recompiling from previous runs
02:10.25brlcadand several compilers do that now ;)
02:11.14brlcadmultipass compilation is almost a forgone necessity now for effective branch prediction and cache coherency
02:11.16MaloeranWhen I tried GCC's branching collection and prediction switches, the result was slower :)
02:12.02MaloeranIn any case... I just ended up writing an amd64 assembly path of my ray-tracer's pipeline, I welcome any compiler to try to defeat that :}
02:12.12brlcadgcc, as prevalent as it is, has never shaken a decent stick at optimization compared to the compilers from the vendors
02:12.39brlcadexcept for maybe solaris, which has a compiler that actually generates slower code for their own platform
02:12.43brlcadbut then they suck
02:13.50MaloeranGCC's register allocation scheme is fairly poor, to me it seems to be the most important problem
02:14.15``Erikx86 registers are extremely poor
02:14.18MaloeranPlus various chip-specific stupidities it tend to generate once in a while, stalling execution
02:14.29MaloeranSure, I'm mostly referring to amd64
02:16.29``Erikbah, who uses those lame amd chips anyways ;)
02:17.04``Erikstare all you want, but lemme go hide, um, all my x86 breed machines...
02:17.06``Erikfirst
02:17.07``Erik:)
02:17.25brlcadmm.. chips, I could go for a bag of salt and vinegar right about now
02:17.51brlcaddeep fried hopefully
02:18.50MaloeranMost chips aren't too far from being the worst thing one can eat and still bears the label "food"
02:19.41brlcadyou've apparently never tried sea urchin
02:20.25MaloeranIndeed, I haven't :)
02:20.28brlcadthat defined a whole new level of "bad food" to me
02:20.42brlcadbut an interesting experience nonetheless
02:21.10``Erikhttp://www.anti-rice.com/images/Patrick%20-%203.jpg *ghah*
02:21.22``Erikhttp://www.anti-rice.com/images/Patrick%20-%202.jpg
02:21.30``Erikhttp://www.anti-rice.com/images/Patrick%20-%201.jpg
02:22.31``Erikhttp://www.anti-rice.com/images/Dalens69%20-%201.jpg
02:22.32``Erikhttp://www.anti-rice.com/images/Dalens69%20-%202.jpg
02:22.52brlcadthat sucker is huge
02:23.13brlcadoooh, now that one is purdy
02:23.14``Erikwhich, the beast in the nova?
02:23.21``Erikthe 69 camaro is sweet
02:23.31brlcadthe greenie
02:23.33``Eriksupposedly that nova pushes more than 750bhp
02:23.36brlcadshweet
02:27.57``Erikdo you know how many kw you can put out?
02:28.27``Erikthat nova is, um, 560kw
02:28.36MaloeranDefinitely not, any idea how to mesure that? :)
02:29.09``Erikum, here's a webpage that says the average human can put out about 125 watts from pedalling
02:29.13``Erikhttp://www.windstreampower.com/humanpower/hpgtech.html
02:29.29``Erikhand cranking is about 50 watts
02:29.55``Erikso that car has as much muscle as probably about 4500 of you.
02:29.56``Erik:)
02:30.16Maloeran0.17 horse power, neat
02:31.15``Erikmy pickup has about 90kw, so, um, 720 of you :D
02:32.17MaloeranAmusing thought that it might be possible to keep a 200-300W box on by pedalling for a little while
02:36.21``Erikget a more efficient machine? :)
02:49.56pra5adanyone know if jason is online?
02:50.18pra5adand when is the partay tomorrow
02:51.11brlcadall day no?
02:51.20pra5adeven morning?
02:51.27pra5adim supposed to bring drinks (and keg)
02:51.44pra5adw/ jason
02:52.03brlcadjoked that both of you should just bring 1 bottle
02:52.14brlcadjust to see the panic
02:52.40pra5adand piss off wendy9000
02:52.42pra5adno thanks =)
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19:27.19blossaHi! I run Gentoo and having problems with framebuffer... anyone that can point me into the right direction?
19:28.57blossaAlso, i don't know if it matters but, I use udev...
19:44.19blossabrb
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20:05.00joevalleyfieldudev makes no difference
20:05.05joevalleyfieldit works for me on gentoo
20:05.18joevalleyfieldthe "/dev/fb" is just an identier
20:05.37joevalleyfieldnot a device or pipe or file or anything at all
20:06.05joevalleyfielddid you try fbserv standalone?
20:32.17blossaI got it working now. I found an old log from irc: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20050312.html.gz
20:33.31blossathat lead me into the right direction. :-)
20:41.37blossaI thought... hehe I used /dev/X, and got a 'framebuffer-window'. When i use /dev/ogl the hole screen goes black. /dev/fb gives me 'no such device'.
20:41.54blossaSo /dev/X is the right for me?
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21:07.27joevalleyfieldyou're right
21:13.41blossaI have been testing some rendering now... At the beginning I thought I made something wrong, but then I realized that it is fast!!! :-)
21:22.16blossaAs far as I can see, rendering uses both processors. But are there any settings I can do to make sure it uses both processors?
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23:01.44fennany estimate for when archer will be released?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051122

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051122

00:18.23brlcadfenn: you mean released to linux I presume?
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00:25.08fennwell i'm totally in the dark about it.. is it functional already?
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00:29.43``Erikahhhh
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02:45.47pra5advector< list< mystruct* > > compound_structure;  compound_structure.reserve(50); compound_structure[ idx ].push_back( new mystruct );      <----- seg faults on the list insert
02:46.08pra5ad(not the vector index)
02:46.29pra5adi dont believe lists need mem allocation
02:46.33pra5ad:\
02:55.03pra5adah reserve not resize
02:55.12pra5ader resize not reserve =)
03:43.41brlcadfenn, archer is already functional and works under linux and other platforms well enough -- the biggest issue is that it's sitting on a branch with most of the windows port mods which has to be merged to head at some point
03:48.32fennok i understand that
03:49.12brlcadthat said, archer itself could use all sorts of enhancements
03:50.08brlcadit's got lots of improvements over mged, but in doing so it's also missing a lot of functionality too that will just come with time
03:54.15fenncould i have a hint which directory to look in?
03:55.08fennah n/m.. duh
05:07.08brlcad:)
05:07.43brlcadmost of the logic is in src/tclscripts
05:08.03brlcadseeing how it's primarily a incr tcl based application
05:08.07``Erikphrackin' A you let this puppy get out of date
13:10.02brlcadif it ain't broke, I don't go fixin it
13:10.28brlcadplus it isn't the fastest compiling dohickey either
13:22.13``Erikah haaaaaaa
13:25.56brlcadmysql failed?
13:27.28``Erikyeah, well, help2man was failing, got that fixe3d
13:27.49``Erikmysql is failing because of the fixes to how badly that versions threading stuff was fucked up :D
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17:24.08razbrlcad: Does release 7.6.4 address the facetize problem I mentioned weeks ago when attempting to facetize m35.g file?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051123

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051123

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04:41.39pra5ad``Erik, have u messed with env.sh lately?
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17:13.21``Erikprasad: no.
17:13.27CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nmg.c:
17:13.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: remove the gratuitous debug printing. if the debug statements were intended to
17:13.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: be permanent, they should be tied to the RT_G_DEBUG symbol and regular debug
17:13.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: masking levels. DEBUG is intended to indicate -g debug symbols now. add the
17:13.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: missing license header while we're at it
17:16.23CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added a section for 7.6.6; removed gratuitous nmg debug printing from mged (in response to new DEBUG meaning and sf message board id 3434475 from cobbaut)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051124

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051124

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04:19.40pra5adchirp
04:24.10brlcadprihc
04:24.35brlcadoh dang, it's snowing
04:53.36pra5adwtf
04:53.38pra5adu are kidding me
05:09.00CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h:
05:09.00CIA-12BRL-CAD: include math.h and float.h since they are required by this header; remove the
05:09.01CIA-12BRL-CAD: archaic sqrt() prototyping (should be detected/provided by configure); add
05:09.01CIA-12BRL-CAD: comments on NEAR_ZERO and CLAMP; implement INTCLAMP for determining whether a
05:09.01CIA-12BRL-CAD: value is within computation tolerance of an integer -- if it is, return the
05:09.01CIA-12BRL-CAD: value clamped to the integer.
05:09.01pra5adgah u are right
05:13.30pra5adbrlcad,
05:13.34pra5adabout radmind
05:13.57pra5adtegtmeyer says it hasn't configed my system properly
05:14.06pra5adeven though radmind completes w/o probs
05:14.12pra5ad(and yes i rebooted)
07:11.56CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: add V2INTCLAMPARGS, V3INTCLAMPARGS, V4INTCLAMPARGS, V2INTCLAMPPRINT, VINTCLAMPPRINT, HINTCLAMPPRINT macros that utilize INTCLAMP for clean printing.
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14:26.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_arb.c:
14:26.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: clamp the number being printed by the describe function to their closest integer
14:26.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: if it's within hardware tolerance of an integer. this is done only in the
14:26.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: describe function for now so it's only cosmetic, though it could conceivably
14:26.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: happen on store/load too. (addresses sf 'bug'/request 1359253)
14:28.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (26 files):
14:28.54CIA-12BRL-CAD: clamp the number being printed by the describe function to their closest integer
14:28.54CIA-12BRL-CAD: if it's within hardware tolerance of an integer. this is done only in the
14:28.54CIA-12BRL-CAD: describe function for now so it's only cosmetic, though it could conceivably
14:28.54CIA-12BRL-CAD: happen on store/load too. (addresses sf 'bug'/request 1359253)
15:07.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
15:07.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: clamped integer value printing of primitives in mged (addresses sf 'bug'/request
15:07.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: 1359253). this is a cosmetic change that identifies primitive values being
15:07.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: displayed that are within hardware floating point tolerance of an integer and
15:07.13CIA-12BRL-CAD: clamps the value to the integer instead of printing the floating point fuzz that
15:07.14CIA-12BRL-CAD: got injected (most likely due to units or a double->float->double conversion).
15:07.16CIA-12BRL-CAD: this could be extended to all load/store operations to correct floating point
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21:02.10blossaHi! My brlcad is uggly. hehe It seems that I don't have trutype fonts in it. Will a recompile solve this? Are there any special flags I should use when compiling? I'm using Gentoo linux.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051125

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051125

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051126

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051126

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04:42.11pra5adchirp
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05:43.35solonhello all
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23:29.39CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Added another text alignment handler
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051127

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051127

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04:02.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john added another text alignment handler to dxf-g
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04:57.11PKMOBILEhey did you ever do that support request for the database brlcad?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051128

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17:35.10*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
17:35.10*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.4 is released || Developer meeting on Friday Nov 17!
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19:40.59CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed grouping bug, mged point importer; improved mged point import support; fixed bug in plate orientation of mged point importer
19:42.41CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed benchmark tool default resource location bug
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19:45.32CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed modified env(PATH) startup issue in mged
19:46.00CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oops, don't commit the partial paragraph yet
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20:46.45razbrlcad: any changes made to the facetize tool in latest version of brlcad?
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21:44.31brlcadraz, there have been some changes made, though I haven't been able to test them on your geometry case just yet
21:45.03brlcadthere's another release that will go out in about a week -- I'd suggest waiting for it before testing regardless
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22:55.25jricherI am thinking about attempting to build BRLcad under windows XP. I know that it is currently not working. My question is _where_ it's not working
22:55.47jricheris there anyone out there who can point me toward that information
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23:25.44brlcadahh, 6 whole minutes of waiting
23:41.24``Erikheh
23:45.24brlcadactually only half that from the time he actually asked the question
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051129

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051129

00:39.13pra5adsean
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05:43.46autoeaglehi,is any body here?
05:44.27*** join/#brlcad autoeagle (n=9fe23f82@bz.bzflag.bz)
05:44.45brlcadhello
05:45.09brlcadsomeone's always here, we're just not always quick to respond ;)
05:47.33autoeagleBut I can't find any one or any information in the channel.
05:49.20autoeagleI have a question about the usage of the Brlcad.
05:52.55autoeagleIf there are an existent function or software in the brlcad that could determine a point in or out of the model which build by brlcad?
05:54.19autoeagleIf not, i want try to develop one for my project.
05:55.36autoeagleBeside, how to use the irc?
05:57.49learnerdetermine a point in or out of the model?
05:58.03learnerlike shooting a ray and determining the entry and exit hit point?
05:58.11learnerthat's exactly what brl-cad is designed around ;)
05:59.33brlcadthere are various net ettiquite rules for irc, the most important is probably to just be patient and ask well thought out questions if you have questions
06:00.13brlcadthe conversation comes and goes so you pretty much stay in the channel while you do other things and check it from time to time
06:01.23brlcadas for your question about determining the in and out points of an intersection, it also matters whether you mean in the modeler or in code (both of which are possible
06:02.06brlcadin mged, you can run nirt or shoot_ray to fire a single ray (default is from the view center) and it will report some default hit information
06:02.38brlcadin code, rt_shootray() is where it all happens, and you register callbacks that get called on a hit/miss at which point you can report in/out points, etc
06:03.04brlcade.g. look at src/rt/rtexample.c in the source distribution for a simple example that reports in and out hit points
06:03.14autoeagleIn fact,it is not a very effective way to determine by shooting a ray and determining the entry and exit hit point.
06:03.50brlcadnot effective for what purpose?
06:04.23brlcadand again, are you talking about code or user tools in brl-cad or just theoretically?
06:05.35learnermost who use irc don't use that web interface, there are binary apps available for most all platforms (http://irchelp.org is a decent starting point)
06:06.14autoeagleIn my project , the in or out test must be done more than billions times for a model.
06:07.51autoeagleIn some case , such as the solid base on mesh, the ray test is effective for in and out test.
06:07.57brlcadbillions isn't too bad, that's on par with the analysis simulations that are written to use brl-cad
06:08.48brlcadbrl-cad csg ray-tracer can handle several million rays per second on a decent machine
06:09.31brlcadand if that's not fast enough, there is a triangle/mesh-based ray-tracer that can handle considerably more in brl-cad
06:09.38autoeagleAnd my model base on about 140 solid.
06:09.50brlcadthat's a tiny model :)
06:10.45brlcadmost of the models we're used to dealing with have thousands
06:10.55brlcador tens of thousands
06:11.03autoeagleI think so.
06:13.29brlcadso it sounds then that you're interested in the programmatic interfaces in brl-cad?
06:14.55autoeaglebut my project include 1M particles. each one need the in or out test per turn.And the whole process includes more than 100,000 turn,
06:16.32brlcadthat should be pretty straight-forward to implement
06:16.51brlcadthough if it's a particle system you're implementing, you probably don't need full-blown ray-tracing
06:17.19brlcadyou just need simple locale-specific collision detection and velocity updates
06:17.35brlcadthat would be a cool feature to add to brl-cad
06:17.53autoeagleYes
06:17.55brlcadthere's minimal particle system and time-based update support
06:19.03brlcadthat said, you certainly 'could' implement the particle system using the ray-tracer pretty darn easily
06:20.15autoeagletheoretically, a simple locale-specific collision could save 50-90% calculate time vs ray test.
06:20.28MaloeranAdding code to break out of adrt's tracing loop after travelling a certain distance wouldn't be much trouble, for local collision tests
06:20.36brlcadyou'd shoot a ray for every particle, every timestep to determine if/where they intersect -- it would take about 1s per timestep on a desktop
06:21.08brlcadthat'd be about a 26 hour computation on a desktop
06:21.16brlcadfor 100k timesteps
06:21.38autoeaglereally?
06:21.39brlcadyou can undoubtedly improve upon that given the simple nature of the sim
06:23.32brlcadthe main killer time sink by ray-tracing is probably going to be prep time since the model changes every time step, i'd bet that'd account for most of the time without some customization
06:25.28autoeagleYes,In my project , the rebuild of the list will cost about 90% calculations.
06:26.26brlcadwhat are your time constraints?  what's the goal?  an animation of the simulation?  a (real-time?) simulation framework?
06:27.45autoeaglenot real time.
06:28.09brlcadno sense worrying about whether it's going to take 26 hours or 40 hours if real-time is a requirement; vice-versa if real-time isn't a requirement and you're just rendering off-line, no bid deal if it simulates and renders for a day
06:30.36autoeaglebut the now effection is too bad.So  i want to optimize it with brlcad.
06:31.25autoeaglethe first step the change the modeling system to mged
06:31.45brlcadif you represent your particles with spheres or triangles, you should get optimal raytrace performance using rt or adrt respectively
06:31.50autoeaglethe first step is to change the modeling system to mged
06:32.06brlcadplease do :)
06:36.59brlcadin the meanwhile, presuming you're going to hang around (which I hope you do) -- I'd suggest http://www.irssi.org/ or http://www.xchat.org/ for an irc client
06:37.28autoeaglethank you:)
06:40.22autoeaglewhich Networks should I choice in Xchat.
06:42.06CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: it's 7.6.5, not 7.6.6 quite yet..
06:42.08brlcadirc.freenode.net
06:42.23brlcad#brlcad
06:43.28brlcad(port 6667)
06:43.34CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix perf.sh pathing issue
06:43.40brlcadfg
06:45.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test pic/nonpic build problems with librtms/libmultispectral
06:48.42brlcadwelp, time for me to sleep a lil bit I think
06:48.55brlcadnice talking to you autoeagle, see you around more hopefully
06:50.36autoeaglethank you.
06:51.21autoeaglebye
06:52.32autoeagleblushing for my poor english.
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21:01.47raztwingy: we are running the isst apps but not seeing anything rendered. we followed the usage steps in the readme. Any input?
21:12.06``Erikis it printing the framerate in the console?
21:27.49razthe splash screen shows up and the caption reads: ADRT_ISST_Observer Loading...
21:37.43``Erikhrm, lemme go kick justin and make him look at irc o.O
21:39.47razthanks
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051130

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051130

03:15.36pra5addamn good 1lb burger for $5 @ inner harbor
03:15.41pra5admmm so full =)
03:18.21brlcadmm.. them rats is good eatn
03:18.50pra5adhttp://www.koopers.com/
03:19.00pra5adjackpot :)
03:19.43pra5adbrlcad, did u fix the mounts yet?
03:21.37pra5adgutter, mind, bad
03:21.55brlcadbad gutter, no donut for you
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14:28.32``Erikgrar, the wench keeps trying to make me go to fells point o.O I'll have to check that place out next time I'm weak
14:28.56``Erikusually I eat at duclaws or that, uh, 'admirals club' or whatever restraunt on the water by the stagey area
15:41.54``Erik2/det
15:42.11``Erikmeh
15:50.05brlcaddrinking earlier I see
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16:42.57*** join/#brlcad MikeC (n=Mike@pool-138-88-142-43.esr.east.verizon.net)
16:43.06MikeCHi everyone
16:43.25MikeCI just downloaded the source for brlcad 7.6.4 and compiled it
16:43.39MikeCI went into adrt to compile it as well and it seems a header file is missing: isst.h
16:44.11MikeCisst.h is in a previous version we have compiled successfully 7.6.1
16:51.11MikeCI'd like to try to get the code from CVS but how do I specify that I would like version 7.6.4?
17:29.54MikeCI'll be back later
19:41.18*** join/#brlcad MikeC2 (n=Mike@pool-138-88-142-43.esr.east.verizon.net)
19:42.14MikeC2hi anyone here, I have some questions about ADRT related things and a CVS question
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19:46.40``ErikO.o
19:55.21MikeC2hi Erik
20:00.33MikeC2Erik you know if Sean or Justin are around?
20:12.03brlcadhowdy
20:12.16MikeC2hey man!
20:12.41MikeC2We found in downloading the source code that there is a missing header file named isst.h in the adrt src directory
20:12.55MikeC2however it seems when we obtain the code through CVS the isst.h file is there
20:13.10MikeC2also how do we checkout a specific version of brlcad using CVS?
20:15.54MikeC2I can checkout brlcad with CVS but it always gives the latest version
20:16.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/Makefile.am: isst.h and isst_struct.h were missing from the dist, thanks MikeC
20:16.35MikeC2ok thanks CIA-12
20:16.37brlcadthanks
20:17.00brlcadyou checkout a specific version using the -r flag to checkout
20:17.28MikeC2is there a way to get a list of existing revisions available for checkout?
20:17.34brlcadcvs -d blahblah checkout -P -r rel-7-6-2 brlcad
20:17.40MikeC2oh ok
20:17.52brlcadyeah, do a cvs status some_file
20:17.54MikeC2and I assume you recommend not using the latest HEAD from CVS right?
20:18.39brlcadcvs head is generally pretty stable, and it's easier for me to fix problems on the fly if you run into any but it all depends on you
20:18.47MikeC2ok
20:18.57brlcadhead should be working fine right now
20:19.14brlcadhead 'usually' is working fine
20:19.36MikeC2we found a problem in the isst slave code that causes a seg fault in normal usage of it
20:20.47MikeC2you cannot run the isst package successfully as it is
20:20.55MikeC2we found a solution but would like to bounce it off you guys
20:24.01brlcadexcellent, bounce away
20:24.29brlcaddoes the fix change behavior really or just fix the segfault?
20:24.38MikeC2fix the segfault
20:24.45MikeC2ok first lets describe the problem
20:25.09MikeC2if you look in src/adrt/libcommon/unpack.h
20:25.43MikeC2notice the prototype for the function: extern  void    common_unpack_free();
20:25.43brlcadeww, fixed array sizes
20:25.44brlcadokay
20:25.57MikeC2now look in src/adrt/libcommon/unpack.c
20:26.10MikeC2look for the common_unpack_free function
20:26.30MikeC2notice that the prototype in the c file does not match the prototype in the header file
20:26.50MikeC2now look in src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c
20:27.24MikeC2look at the function: isst_slave_Free
20:27.29MikeC2oops isst_slave_free
20:27.35MikeC2notice it calls common_unpack_free
20:27.38MikeC2with no parameters
20:27.51CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/unpack.h: prototype should match, common_unpack_free -- thanks to MikeC
20:28.00brlcadheh
20:28.02MikeC2somehow this compiles
20:28.13brlcadthe prototype let that compile
20:28.17brlcadwhich is bogus ;)
20:28.27MikeC2we are using gcc (GCC) 4.0.0 20050519
20:28.38brlcadresults in an anonymous argument (which C allows)
20:28.44MikeC2and also gcc 3.4.4 on another computer
20:29.04MikeC2ok that causes a major problem
20:29.13MikeC2now the question is, how has it been running in the past?
20:29.17brlcadit's like how I can call malloc(); without a size and it'll compile
20:29.38brlcadpresuming I declare a matching prototype
20:29.46MikeC2ok well I guess I been in the C++ world too much
20:29.52brlcadit's just undefined as to what it'd do (and in malloc's case it'd crash probably)
20:30.22MikeC2since the slave crashes how has it been running before?
20:30.25brlcadC++ carrys that same baggage, but you don't see it much since you also have polymorphic function args
20:30.52MikeC2I understand that part now
20:30.53brlcadit's a free routine.. so it's like passing a bogus pointer to free()
20:30.56brlcadit may or may not crash
20:31.08brlcadin your case it does
20:31.17brlcadhe's apparently gotten lucky ;)
20:31.37MikeC2ok
20:31.48MikeC2we'll fix it for now in our stuff
20:31.54MikeC2we got it running after fixing it
20:32.04MikeC2but we still have to actually do aa shotline
20:32.09MikeC2aa = a
20:34.24CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/unpack.c: make sure db is a valid pointer so common_unpack_free doesn't crash
20:34.25brlcaddid you do anything to isst_slave_free?
20:34.45MikeC2yes
20:35.06MikeC2there is a global variable called db
20:35.20MikeC2we pass in &db to common_unpack_free
20:35.44brlcadahh, there it is
20:37.03CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c: free the global db node
20:37.18brlcadwho may I credit for the fix in the release notes?
20:37.33MikeC2Mike Caruso and Razak Arunaogun - Qryon LLC
20:39.17brlcadpeople get the credit when the announcements go out, not organizations -- though I'll note them in the cvs commit log and authors file
20:39.33brlcadthanks for finding that
20:39.47MikeC2no problem, we'll let you know if we find more as we go
21:51.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed adrt/isst client crash bug
21:54.11CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to Mike Caruso and Razak Arunaogun - Qryon LLC for fixes and feedback
22:05.04CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: Qryon not Qryan
22:15.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: dtremmy to special thanks for his build fixes
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051201

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051201

00:10.30``Erik<-- scratches his chin
00:11.24brlcadthat's where I store crumbs for later too
00:11.46``Erikheh
00:11.53``Eriklookin' at those kids website
00:12.04brlcadthose kids?
00:12.06``Erikthey do hla shit
00:12.09``Erikyeah, mike and raz
00:12.12brlcadahh
00:12.12``Erikqryon
00:12.22``Erikdis and hla stuff in their military sim page
00:12.53brlcadmm, maybe they'll add an hla interface to librt
00:12.54brlcadheh
00:13.57brlcadoh, polygon reduction tools
00:14.19``Erikthey're even local, heh
00:14.51brlcadthey've been over to talk
00:15.11brlcadworking sort of related with max's group
00:15.19``Erikcentreville, va
00:15.33``Eriklooks like a tiny and fairly new company
00:15.48brlcadno better kind ;)
00:16.03``Erikgis stuff
00:16.23``Erikwonder why they're spending that much time on adrt
00:17.56brlcadif anything large model visualization where it can't be easily stuffed into opengl
00:18.14brlcadthey could probably use their mesh simplification stuff to improve performance too
00:18.30``Erikperhaps
00:18.55brlcadeven if they just repackage adrt/isst to their gov folks there ..
00:19.04brlcador embed it in something
00:19.27``Erikbut good scene subdivision gives very sublinear scalability, almost constant if done well enough *shrug* so mesh optimization only buys you a tiny bit, if anything
00:19.44``Erikjustin has been working out of repo for a long time now
00:20.12``Erikif he's off in his own world, it'll just be parallel effort duplication :(
00:20.37brlcadhe forked his own project, his choice ;)
00:22.40brlcador probably better put, he lost interest in his own project so he turned it into something else
00:23.21``Erikheh
00:31.17pra5adurl?
00:31.29brlcadgoogle is your friend
00:31.36pra5adgoogle for?
00:31.41brlcadgood grief man!
00:31.50pra5adahh qryon
00:31.52pra5ad=)
00:31.55brlcadgoogle for porn
00:32.06pra5adwww.whitehouse.com
00:32.08brlcad~google porn
00:32.26brlcadibot: wake up!
00:32.31ibotup!: GOOD MORNING!!!
00:36.57``Erikgoogle for "miserable failure" and click "I'm feeling lucky"
00:37.06``Erik:D
01:33.11``Erikstupid fucking jewelry is too fucking expensive... stupid wimminz
05:39.31MaloeranMmhm, so the Bush family includes two dogs, named Barney and Miss Beazly, plus a cat named Willie.  They sure put all the essential in this biography
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14:40.51``ErikO.o
15:35.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am: fix sandbox errors on installing jove's extra resources, missing DESTDIR
15:39.48CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed Jove sandbox installation issue
16:03.15``Erikwhen do we get to fix jove entirely out of the repo? :D
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051202

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051202

00:38.58pra5addamn
00:39.26pra5adsean, massive shoulder bruising
00:39.31pra5ad:(
00:59.49``Erikshoulda had korean instead
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13:23.15learnerespecially when the muscles are weak and get hit up the for the first time in a long time
13:23.31learnerit's all good
14:51.50``Erikheh
15:22.07CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS AUTHORS): add a local variable line to indicate these files are utf-8 encoded so names may be correctly represented and correctly displayed in emacs/vi at least
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21:08.51CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_lint.c: use RT_APPLICATION_INIT instead of zero'ing
21:11.17CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/solshoot.c: use RT_APPLICATION_INIT
21:12.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: ws
21:14.23CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/all_sf.c: use RT_APPLICATION_INIT and deglobal the unnecessarily global ap structure
21:16.02CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/firpass.c: use RT_APPLICATION_INIT and deglobal the unnecessarily global ap structure
21:17.36CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/secpass.c: use RT_APPLICATION_INIT and deglobal the unnecessarily global ap structure
21:19.48CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (shapefact.c showtherm.c): use RT_APPLICATION_INIT and deglobal the unnecessarily global ap structure
21:27.35CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: static const application structure isn't very useful, static was perhaps the intent. clean up the m-q format a smidgen.
21:32.39CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/refract.c: initialize the sub_ap application structure
21:47.43CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/refract.c: initialize the appl application struct
21:49.06CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_air.c: init my_ap structure just in case
21:53.43CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: k&r to ansi functification
22:11.11CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (whereis.c which.c): openbsd requires sys/param.h for all the preprocessor symbols...
22:38.14``Erikwoohoo, just got rt to run on obsd, no crashes
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051203

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051203

02:37.43learnersweet!
03:12.43pra5adping
03:27.53``Erikmged pukes on, uh, point/
03:27.58``Erikthat's the only issue left
03:28.19``Erikmged/point/point_parser ... the yacc makes ugliness that makes the c compiler cry
03:28.23``Erikiirc
03:29.32brlcadhmm, it could be an ordering issue
03:29.49brlcadtook a while to get the rules right.. make sure it lexes before it yaccs
03:30.13brlcadmake point_scan.lo or something
03:30.45``Erikwhen bison crunches on your .y file, it spews out some tokens
03:30.50``Erikon leenewx, the tokens are sane
03:31.11``Erikon obsd, the tokens have square brackets around 'em
03:31.19``Erik#define [COMMA] 42
03:31.22``Eriklike that
03:31.31``Erikobviously, C compilers are unhappy
03:31.35``ErikI'll dig on it more on monday
03:32.06brlcadthat's wierd
03:32.48brlcadif you want to just avoid the whole points thing to get a compile going, comment out the last command in src/mged/cmd.c and edit the Makefile.am to skip points
03:41.10``Erikwell, I'd like to get it working, heh
03:45.36``Erik<-- wonders if we should do stable and devel branches or something
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03:49.01brlcadwe've talked about doing both before
03:49.24brlcadbut at the current rate and type of commits, it's not really an issue
03:49.33brlcadi'm not going to branch just for my health
03:50.26brlcadhead is treated as devel with an inclination towards being stable 25 days of the month and stable the other few
03:52.40pra5ado.0?
03:53.03pra5adit's never unstable eh
03:55.52pra5adbloops parsed it wrong =)
03:56.00pra5adthe pain is getting to me
04:49.25PKMOBILEthe thing is like 25 years old... its probably older than some of the people working on it
05:31.16pra5adgood thing im not working on it
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051204

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051204

02:31.40CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: ws and comment formatting
02:33.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: M-x indent-region
03:14.45CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: comment what the flags are for the directory functions
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04:10.14CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: comment on what the arguments to db_diradd mean
04:15.56pra5adthe paaain!
04:16.02learnerheh
04:16.25pra5adwhat's for monday
04:16.26learnernewbie
04:16.44learnerwe were just talking about that
04:16.50pra5addude i think i killed a calfstring or something
04:16.58learnerprobably triceps and maybe shoulders
04:17.02pra5adgonna have a limp on monday
04:17.03learnerhehe, no you didn't :)
04:17.20learnercalfs are just particularly weak if you don't use them
04:18.14learnerthen maybe quads on tues, cleans or squats
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04:18.33learnerwed for aerobic, thurs for bench
04:18.43``Erikweirdos
04:18.54pra5ader u pushed the schedule back a day?
04:19.04learnerhmm? no
04:19.21pra5adwasnt aerobic thurs and bench fri this week
04:19.26learnerwe're just rotating around certain muscle groups
04:19.31pra5adk
04:19.34learnerit's not tied to days of the week
04:19.43learnerit's tied to how long ago the muscle was used
04:20.35learnerif we do tris on monday, won't be able to bench until at least thurs
04:21.14pra5adanything besides legs will do for me mon/tues
04:21.56learnerbiceps are okay?
04:22.11learnerthey should start hurting if they're not yet
04:22.16pra5adnot as bad as the calf
04:22.48pra5adleft bicep is hurtin little
04:22.52learnerand pecs
04:23.09pra5adyea pecs
04:23.15learnermy pecs are nice and sore a little bit
04:23.16pra5adill live :)
04:25.09brlcadhttp://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/archive/2005/Nov/20051130-0361_RPH_large.jpg
04:25.12brlcadpretty
04:27.18pra5adbrown rice ramen
04:27.30pra5adstraight from the 3rd world
04:27.31pra5admmmm
05:16.28CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: sort commands alphabetically
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05:48.58CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.h: sort the externs, add the ged.h header dependency for MGED_EXTERN, add f_tracker and f_clone
06:05.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: (log message trimmed)
06:05.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: initial file. adds initial support for the clone and tracker commands with
06:05.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: updates to the code applied for changes that have occurred over the
06:05.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: years.
06:05.15CIA-12BRL-CAD: these are the first of many contributions provided by the former GSI
06:05.16CIA-12BRL-CAD: with permission for inclusion in the open source release at last. the
06:05.17CIA-12BRL-CAD: sources were found from an almost dead O2 external hard drive
06:07.25CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: add clone.c
06:08.37CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: add clone and tracker commands from the newly added clone.c for unannounced internal testing
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15:54.47CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: protect from crashing by aborting if a db_diradd caller passes a null minor type
17:32.42CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/db5.h: reserve a minor type of 0 .. invalid/unset
18:59.42CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: abort earlier instead of later and make it a runtime failure instead of a hard application abort
20:12.21pra5adhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-123322263707848424
20:12.22pra5adlol
20:14.00pra5adoh god so funny
20:14.01pra5adlol
21:09.21brlcadheh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051205

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051205

00:58.27*** join/#brlcad _AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
02:03.43pra5adhey justin
02:03.44pra5adhttp://media.putfile.com/WizardsofWinter-SM
02:03.49pra5adu gotta top this guy
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02:44.57brlcadomg that's freaking awesome!
02:45.00brlcadhehe
02:45.13brlcadoh man that had me crackin up
02:55.08Twingyif it aint lynx compatible don't bother
02:57.23brlcadit's not flash
02:59.05Twingywelp, it's some sort of pluggin
04:10.28``Erikhrmmmm, won't play in the browser, but downloaded for me
04:26.32``Erikand, uh, whoa
04:27.04``Erikhttp://x702.putfile.com/videos/b4-32009062867.wmv for the straight wmv link
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15:41.39CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: comment on the minimum version of autoconf required, add an initial --enable-everything option without implementing it yet
15:43.00CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/args.m4: create bc_VARIABLE_default variables that are set to the original default variable value
18:32.16CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c:
18:32.16CIA-12BRL-CAD: OpenBSD lacks INT32_MAX, but provides INT_MAX which is (hopefully)
18:32.16CIA-12BRL-CAD: equivelant. So we kluge^Wtest and set in the cpp.
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20:17.19pierhi everyone in the chat
20:21.07pierI wondered if anyone could give me some hint on the fbserv device problem with Linux OS
20:34.21learnersure
20:34.23learnerwhat's what?
20:34.30learnerer, what's the question?
20:35.11pierI was following the mug tutorial
20:35.15learnerk
20:35.48pierand the rendering session with the command exec fbserv 1 /dev/sgip &
20:35.48pier4574
20:35.48piermged> fb_open: no such device "/dev/sgip".
20:35.54learnerahh
20:36.41learner<PROTECTED>
20:36.45pierI've found some explanation on the net but I haven't been able to work it out
20:37.05piergo on please
20:37.20learnerthere are various framebuffer device types
20:37.31pieryep
20:37.33learnerthe /dev part is not at all related to the filesystem /dev
20:37.42learnerbut rather, framebuffer devices
20:37.58learnerhorrible naming convention, yes, but it made sense to someone 20 years ago ;)
20:38.09learnerthat said, the part after the /dev/ is what matters
20:38.20learnerthe form is /dev/DEVICEoptions
20:38.33learnerwhere DEVICE is one of the known device types for your system
20:38.51learnerand options are a set of available options that DEVICE allows
20:39.04learnerlingering and shared memory are common options
20:39.10learnertype fbhelp
20:39.16pierI tried with /dev/fb0  fb1
20:39.19learnerit should list the framebuffers that were compiled for you
20:39.20pierok
20:39.38learner<PROTECTED>
20:39.42learnerfor displaying to a window
20:39.47pierno dice... command not found
20:40.12learneryour path isn't set up
20:40.21learnerexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
20:40.29learneror just type /usr/brlcad/bin/fbhelp
20:40.37pierok
20:41.02pierfeel laike a jackass
20:41.07pierlike
20:41.13learnerrt and fbserv recognize all of the device types as well as the 100+ fb-* and *-fb commands
20:41.31learnernah, you wouldn't have known without reading the older manual pages
20:41.54piergot plenty of infos
20:42.15pierDevice: /dev/ogl
20:42.16pierMax width height: 1280 1024
20:42.16pierDefault width height: 512 512
20:42.18learnerusually /dev/Xl is sufficient
20:42.37learnerthat's your "current"/default setting
20:42.54learnerrt -F/dev/Xl some_file.g object
20:43.12pierso I ought to try fbserv 1 /dev/ogl?
20:43.25learnersure, that should work
20:43.45learneror just fbserv 0 since /dev/ogl is your default
20:44.04pierscreen went black
20:44.06learner-S to specify the square size
20:44.12piermmmh
20:44.28learnerah, then you have a system with the X11 opengl bug
20:44.33learneruse /dev/Xl instead
20:44.40pierok
20:45.14learnerfbserv -S 1024 0 /dev/Xl
20:45.21learnerfor a 1024x1024 X11 window
20:45.35learnerthere's a manpage for fbserv
20:45.36piernow it is better.... the blank window is now a framed one
20:45.53learnerif you don't set up your manpath, you can run /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman fbserv
20:46.04pierok
20:46.17learneror brlman whatever .. there are a lot of manpages
20:47.21pierLord I have to save all the infos you are providing
20:48.30pierthe mug is still missing
20:48.54pierbut yet I've made some step forward
20:48.59pierthanks
20:50.04pierI can see the mug in the dm_oglo window though
20:50.31learnerfbserv just opens a framebuffer window
20:50.40learneryou'll have to raytrace into that framebuffer
20:51.03learnerrt -F0  or -F1 depending on what number you provided to fbserv
20:51.37learneryou can also raytrace directly to a window just by specifying the framebuffer to rt also
20:53.03``Eriksean, it's definitely a bug with bison on obsd, I replicated it on other software, and have sent in a bug report... I believe that's the last hitch for obsd, and I've already gotten rt to draw some crap for me...
20:53.39pieroh man... so sorry for such question... I stopped following the instructions in thje tutorial
20:54.01``Erikyour points_parse.l file seems to expect yylval to be handy without an extern define, which the default yacc on obsd lacks, tho :-/
20:57.23learnerthat's easily added
20:57.45learnerbut I guess more problematic is bison
20:57.52``Erikit's your baby, I'll let you fix it
20:58.04``Erikbison isn't our issue, it's theirs, and it's reported
20:58.12learneroh wait, yylval?
20:58.16``Erikja
20:58.32piermay I...?
20:58.41``Erikbathroom is down the hall
20:58.48pier:)
20:59.05pierI get an error while raytracing
20:59.06learnerthat's defined in the .h from bison
20:59.51pierpkg_open: client connect: errno=111
20:59.51pierrem_open: can't connect to fb server on host "localhost                       ", port "5560".
20:59.51pierfb_open: can not open device ":1", ret=-3.
20:59.51pierrt:  can't open frame buffer
20:59.51pierRaytrace complete.
21:00.12learnerso, wrong -F
21:00.32learnerare you going the fbserv route or the rt -F/dev route?
21:01.26pierI beg your pardon..
21:01.56learnerthere are two ways to raytrace into a window
21:02.21learneryou either start up a frame buffer server (fbserv) and tell rt to raytrace into it via -F and some number
21:02.31pierok
21:02.43pieror..
21:02.44learneror you tell rt to raytrace directly to a framebuffer window via -F/dev/something
21:02.48``Erikrt -F/dev/Xl /path/to/ktank.g tank g17
21:02.49``Erikyo
21:04.07``Erikall that's in oldschool yacc's generated header is the token name and numbers
21:05.03``Erikbut there is a yylval used in the .c, so I guess we need to test if yylval is defined, and extern it if it's not
21:05.14learnermy .h has #ifndef YYSTYPE
21:05.14learnertypedef int yystype;
21:05.14learner# define YYSTYPE yystype
21:05.14learner#endif
21:05.14learnerextern YYSTYPE yylval;
21:05.29learnerYYSTYPE is defined
21:05.35learnerin the .y
21:05.54``Erik../../../../../src/mged/points/points_scan.l:128: error: `yylval' undeclared (first use in this function)
21:06.07``Erikmmmmebbe your .h isn't being included by the old yacc?
21:06.10``Erik*looks*
21:06.52learnerthe .c from the .l includes process.h which includes points_parse.h
21:07.12learnerwhich is what's expected to provide the extern
21:07.22``Erikoohhhh, not it doesn't, it includes ./process.h
21:07.25``Erikand I build out of dir
21:07.27learneri.e. you have to successfully run bison/yacc before you can lex
21:07.29``Erikthat's probably the issue
21:08.27``Eriknope, still getting the issue
21:08.31learnerout of dir shouldn't be a problem, ./ is used throughout to mean a local header -- configure adds a builddir and a srcdir
21:08.51``Erikyou in tomorrow?
21:08.55learnerya
21:08.59learnerunfortunately
21:09.02pierThanks a lot.... have a nice day!
21:09.03``ErikI'l give you an account and you can shell into it
21:09.07learneri should just take the day off
21:09.11learners/day/week/
21:09.13learnerbut I won't
21:09.14``Erikit's snowing o.O
21:09.21learneryeah, maybe I'll get lucky
21:09.28learnerpier, no problem
21:09.36learnerfeel free to hang out and ask questions whenever
21:09.41learnersomeone will eventually answer if they can
21:10.25pierThanks again! (good night... I can call it a day)
21:10.36learner``Erik: the real kicker will be to run g-nmg or one of the variety that tesselate .. :)
21:10.45``Erikok, I can do that right now
21:10.48``Erikgimme a command line
21:11.32learnermm. g-stl path/to/stryker.g stryker
21:11.42learneror maybe something less pigish
21:11.50``Erikgggghhhhaaaahhhh, that means getting the model to that machine, heh
21:12.01learnerg-stl /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/db/havoc.g havoc
21:12.14learnerer
21:12.24learnerg-stl -o havoc.stl /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/db/havoc.g havoc
21:13.19``Erikbe a few minutes, heh, wdb isn't installed and I'd cleaned the build dir...
21:14.09``Erikshouldn't you be working on bz? :D
21:14.50learneractually, i've been working on one of the old GSI mged extensions
21:15.18learnertry to get it working before posting so I can get some testing on it
21:15.26learnerbut it's been a cascade of issues
21:15.56learnerthe mods are against a version over 10 years old so there's been several api changes
21:16.28``Erikew, probably needs an almost total rewrite, heh
21:21.56``Erikchunking...
21:27.37learnernah, it
21:27.50learnerit's actually surprisingly well written, pretty easy to follow
21:28.39learnermore just, api was modified to take new params, so I add what I think it wants, only to watch it crash, then I debug why the hell did the api call crash for an hour applying fixes
21:29.14learnerjust cascading issues, some started by the script, but most in the api -- documentation needing updating, checks for crashables etc
21:30.36``Erikwoot, k0r3
21:31.02``Erikrerunning in gdb
21:45.12``Erikooh, not entirely trivial
22:19.03CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: Add mrotPoint, v2mPoint and m2vPoint methods to the view object.
22:45.20CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c:
22:45.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: Update wdb_do_trace() to consider WDB_EVAL_ONLY. Change erotate, etranslate and
22:45.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: escale to orotate, otranslate and oscale, respectively. Also updated these
22:45.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: renamed commands to consider any matrices along the path. Added the ocenter
22:45.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: method. Added wdb_get_obj_bounds(), wdb_get_obj_bounds2() and
22:45.22CIA-12BRL-CAD: wdb_get_objpath_mat().
22:48.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Added m2vPoint, v2mPoint and mrotPoint methods
22:52.17CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Db.tcl Mged.tcl): Changed erotate, etranslate and escale method names to orotate, otranslate and oscale, respectively. Added the ocenter method
22:56.09CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Added the following methods: orotate_mode, oscale_mode, otranslate_mode, screen2model, screen2view, handle_orotation, handle_oscale and handle_otranslation. Other minor stuff.
23:00.07CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Added the following methods: m2vPoint, v2mPoint, orotate_mode, oscale_mode, otranslate_mode, screen2model and screen2view.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051206

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051206

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08:37.05PrezKennedysometimes i really miss the black console with no frills
09:53.24d_rossbergi expect rint to be equivalent to floor(x + 0.5)
10:03.18CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: has math.h, rint for Windows
13:02.15learnerd_rossberg, i would too, or at least close enough
13:07.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/retry.m4: allow a second option to the restart macro for configure args so that they may be preserved.
13:12.55CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
13:12.55CIA-12BRL-CAD: add support for --enable-everything and --disable everything options to simplify
13:12.55CIA-12BRL-CAD: configuration when making distributions. this requires consolidating all the
13:12.55CIA-12BRL-CAD: 'checking' print messages for whether args were select together after checking
13:12.55CIA-12BRL-CAD: for the everything setting. also, add the args to BC_RETRY_CONFIGURE so that
13:12.55CIA-12BRL-CAD: they are preserved on reinvocation.
14:51.06CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Changed erotate, etranslate and escale to orotate, otranslate and oscale, respectively. Miscellaneous minor mods
15:20.52CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
15:20.52CIA-12BRL-CAD: Adam Ross of GSI has provided extensive constributions including what appears to
15:20.52CIA-12BRL-CAD: be most of the actual GSI source mods for mged-unified (clone, tracker, etc).
15:20.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: borderline being considered a full developer, could have even be considered one
15:20.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: give his level of contributions had that all been after open sourcing
15:27.08CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtwizard doesn't work with perspective
15:35.58CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtwizard/rtedge creates incorrect "fuzzy" edge overlay when creating a "Ghost Image with Insert and Lines"
16:20.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (regress/gqa.sh src/gtools/g_qa.1 src/gtools/g_qa.c): (log message trimmed)
16:20.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: Updated termination check so that "vol/weight" tests cannot cause early
16:20.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: termination when "error checks" are being done. The -n required_hits flag
16:20.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: now only applies to vol/weight calculations. This fixes a behavioral bug
16:20.53CIA-12BRL-CAD: where analysis could run past the "lower" limit on the grid spacing.
16:20.55CIA-12BRL-CAD: Since interface checking is not implemented, it was removed it from the manpage.
16:20.56CIA-12BRL-CAD: Updated manpage with new syntax for -g option. This is not implemented, but it
17:13.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (regress/gqa.sh src/gtools/g_qa.c):
17:13.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: Changed handling of -g option. If user specifies only 1 value, it is now the
17:13.31CIA-12BRL-CAD: LIMIT on how small to let the gridspacing get, not the initial spacing.
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20:30.50brlcadhowdy pier
21:12.07pierfine thanks
21:12.34piermessing around a bit with brl-cad
21:13.54piergoing to switch to it if I get enough good at using it
22:29.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: support for fillets and chamfers as object/combination operations
22:44.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: early termination grid spacing limit bug in g_qa fixed, updated g_qa manual page documentation
22:51.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: remark about it being a known issue that the display manager is not fully functional yet under windows
23:26.50``Erik*yawn*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051207

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051207

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03:29.42pra5adchoo choo
03:37.38``ErikO.o
03:38.09``ErikI think you're supposed to say something or like "ding ding ding goes the trolley" or something, prasad
03:38.11``ErikO:-)
03:38.34pra5adi dont get it
03:38.43pra5ad@_@'
03:54.36``Erik...
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22:28.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (run.sh perf.sh):
22:28.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: the perf.sh script is completely absorbed into run.sh as the function perf()
22:28.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: allowing utilization of run.sh's existing search techniques for locating
22:28.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: resources. This fixes a problem/bug where perf.sh was incorrectly searching the
22:28.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: right directory for reference logs. by bringing the functionality internal,
22:28.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: run.sh now gets to control righting to summary and there is no need to blindly
22:28.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: tail the summary file for results.
22:31.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: perf.sh is gone, absorbed into 'benchmark'
22:43.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fixed perf.sh pathing issue, sucked file into run.sh as a function -- can consider an option later that allows only computation of perf stats instead of running the benchmark there later
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23:32.55brlcadhello robin_sz
23:33.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: need to release soon, relegate testing of pic/nonpic build problems with librtms/libmultispectral to later
23:45.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/refract.c: k&r -> ansi
23:51.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_prj.c: k&r -> ansi
23:54.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/wray.c: k&r -> ansi
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051208

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051208

00:01.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bigE.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT
00:03.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bigE.c: no sense zero'ing twice explicitly now that we're init'ing
00:05.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/fortray.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT instead of bzero
00:07.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT instead of bzero
00:36.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot_include.c: k&r -> ansi
00:43.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_ebm.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT
01:19.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_xxx.c: k&r -> ansi
01:21.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_rt_isect.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT instead of memset
01:26.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/vshoot.c: k&r -> ansi
01:28.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT instead of BU_GETSTRUCT
01:30.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT instead of memset
01:32.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/hideline.c: k&r -> ansi
01:34.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/solids_on_ray.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT and k&r -> ansi
01:35.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT
01:35.47brlcadwee
01:38.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt_simple.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT
01:41.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtexample.c: make the application structure non-global, use RT_APPLICATION_INIT; ws
01:43.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c: make the application structure non-global, use RT_APPLICATION_INIT; ws
01:47.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtwalk.c: make the application structure non-global, use RT_APPLICATION_INIT; ws
01:51.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: k&r -> C
01:55.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: RT_APPLICATION_INIT; ws
01:59.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewscat.c: k&r -> ansi; ws
02:02.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: application structures are now all initialized (or at least they should be) so that the magic number gets set correctly and so the application is properly zero'd.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051209

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051209

03:10.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
03:10.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: concave arbs give correct wireframe but do not raytrace correctly -- this is
03:10.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: documented as unsupported, but mged shouldn't allow it if it's not going to
03:10.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: work. regardless the wireframe shouldn't imply that it should work or it should
03:10.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: be made to work
03:18.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/bodyio.c: remove dead #if 0'd code -- regardless, importing an object from disk shouldn't imply creating the object if it doesn't exist..
03:34.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: already did an RT_INIT_DB_INTERNAL
03:45.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: no sense in bombing if we're asked to free an internal with an unset meth function pointer. if it's set, make sure it's valid, then call the callback.
04:35.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: lseek() function allows the file offset to be set beyond the end of file so make sure we check that the offset provided to db_read is not larger than the size of the file
05:01.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
05:01.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: ran across george toth's name on src/librt/memalloc.c which cvs shows dating
05:01.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: back to at least 1988. that makes him almost certainly a BRL contributor,
05:01.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: though uncertain where he falls in the timeline in relation to the others and
05:01.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: whether or not he was a core developer (indications point towards isolated
05:01.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: contributions)
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05:13.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
05:13.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: traced down george hartwig jr. contributions down to src/libbn/tplot.c which
05:13.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: dates back to 1979(!), seeming from a fortran code that was converted to C
05:13.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: before or as part of the process of getting brought into brl-cad circa 87. gotta
05:13.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: be a contendor for oldest written code in brl-cad still in use. move hartwig up
05:13.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: to code contributions
05:36.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
05:36.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: Tom DiGiacinto's contribution dates back to 1988 at least with Mike attributing
05:36.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: the sh_stxt.c solid texture map shader to him as the author. there are
05:36.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: references to his name also in conjunction with the marble shader (which also
05:36.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: implies the camo shader) in the cvs logs.
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15:30.04pierHi everyone
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19:43.31learnerhowdy pier_
19:43.47learnerjust on my way out the door
19:43.49learnerback sun
20:39.27pier_hi leaner, have a nice w-end!
20:39.37pier_learner
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051210

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051210

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051211

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051211

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051212

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051212

00:25.11*** join/#brlcad cad707 (n=d863dadf@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:26.53cad707Hello, anyone there?
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17:18.35pierHi everybody
17:25.32pierI am reading and carefully following the tutorials in the 2nd volume manual
17:27.30pieryet I am eager to know whether it is possible or not to produce dimensions in the brl-cad enviroment
17:28.00pieronce you have produced your piece of work
17:29.24pierThanks for any piece of information.
23:05.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for setenv
23:11.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: instead of not even trying autoreconf on a configuration where it's well known to not work (e.g. mac os x), give it a try anyways but with a little more explanation. perhaps raise awareness of broken configurations.
23:15.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: report the LOG setting
23:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_comb.c: allow rt_comb_ifree to continue even if the comb pointer, i.e. the object's internal resource pointer is not (yet) set.
23:42.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: avoid crashing, only call the internal free routine if the internal pointer is valid/set
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051213

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051213

02:54.47*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-70-17-195-44.balt.east.verizon.net)
03:45.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c:
03:45.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: separate mged_setup() into it's own file, adding/fixing the block for modifying
03:45.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: the PATH for finding brl-cad resources that match the running mged -- it must
03:45.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: come before the tcl init routines for it to match tcl's internal env tracking
03:46.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: add setup.c, containing mged_setup() from cmd.c
03:47.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: move mged_setup() to it's own file setup.h.; make the tcl_output_hook static since it's not needed anywhere else; move the Tcl_Interp interp global to ged.c
03:48.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: declare the mged_view_obj_callback() and the Tcl_Interp *interp global so that they are available elsewhere
03:52.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: the Tcl_Interp *interp global is moved to ged.c since it's prevalent to all of mged; remove the PATH modification, moving it into mged_setup() (now in setup.c)
03:59.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
03:59.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: increment in steps of 100 instead of the previous 500 -- not likely to have 100
03:59.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: objects being cloned together; replace the dist function with the vmath.h
03:59.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: DIST_PT_PT macro; add comments out the wazoo for what's going on; provide the
03:59.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: correct minor_type for db_diradd(); add some sanity checks and debug printing;
03:59.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: convert all the string manipulations to be strncmp, strncpy, etc (though they
03:59.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: should be just bu_vls strings)
04:47.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/fast.sh librt/fast.sh mged/fast.sh): remove the ancient fast.sh 'fast' build scripts, the make fast rule trumps
05:04.31pra5adping
05:10.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mater.c: color_putrec only works on v4 databases as it ends up calling db_diradd, so say so
05:40.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added an --enable/disable-everything option to configure
05:42.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add a section for both the current and next release iteration items. mged path foo should be fixed, relegate clone/tracker, windows branch, and new geometry to the next release iteration
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13:18.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: irix fix, can only declare variables at the start of a scope block in c89
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16:07.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
16:07.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: adam ross was really a full developer, even through GSI, given the quantity and
16:07.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: level of his changes and contributions so credit him appropriately. time-wise,
16:07.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: that slots him around chris johnson and mike markowski. markowski confirmed
16:07.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: that he started during BRL and that he doesn't mind his e-mail being added. jra
16:07.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: is still active.
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21:35.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: if bu_vls_init is called on a vls that already has space allocated, be sure to free that space before wiping out the pointer to prevent memory leaks and safely allow multiple init calls
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22:21.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: revert back to a non-pointer bu_vls so we're not calling bu_vls_init() on a NULL pointer. bu_vls_init() was updated to allow multiple init statements
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051214

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051214

00:24.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/tplot.c: ansify PL_FORTRAN, ws, style consistency, commentification.
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02:27.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: make sure the supposedly valid vls string pointer is actually allocated some space before trying to free it on the offchance that the magic was set and no space was allocated yet.
02:29.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: the rewrite to allow output to both a file and a framebuffer simultaneously overlooked the else that attempted to test neither file nor framebuffer. fix output blather of 'strange, no end of line actions taken'
02:32.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: cleaned up erroneous rtedge end of line output
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02:49.07*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.4 is released || Developer meeting on Friday Nov 17!
03:47.21*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
05:12.51*** topic/#brlcad by learner -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
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19:12.12blah001I need a new computer specially for CAD, any recommendations?
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21:37.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: simple check to prevent infinite recursion on complex bezier paths
21:57.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed sketch primitive bezier path computation bug
22:19.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: (log message trimmed)
22:19.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: As reported directly from George Hartwig, Jr.:
22:19.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: "In the late 70's Dr Bruce Henriksen and Dr Stephen Wolff were trying to bring
22:19.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: BRL into the world of multi-user computing and as a part of this process bought
22:19.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: a PDP 11/70 computer, a variety of terminals and Mike Muuss to install a version
22:19.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: of JHU Unix. Early in this experiment Mike wrote a plotting package called
22:19.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: Terminal Independent Graphics so that things could be plotted to terminals,
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051215

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051215

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11:33.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: make sure the number of objects being displayed is not more than the number that were copied
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20:24.02``Erik*yarn*
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23:30.49cad187Hello anyone out there (first time using irc, also want to talk about brl-cad)
23:32.58cad187I guess not, see you.
23:36.22*** join/#brlcad bcherian (n=bcherian@adsl-69-107-69-182.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
23:37.08bcherianI've just downloaded a BRL-CAD binary for use on Ubuntu 5.10. What exactly do I do with it?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051216

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051216

00:21.43pra5adpunchline city
00:58.22pra5adTwingy,
01:03.12brlcadI suppose I should have been paying attention..
01:07.31pra5ad<PROTECTED>
01:07.31pra5ad<PROTECTED>
01:07.35pra5adthat seem right to u?
01:08.09brlcadnot really
01:08.17brlcadthat's basically 0 0 0 and inf inf inf
01:08.21pra5adstraight from DIVA's db
01:08.32pra5adand there isnt any stride issues
01:08.48brlcaddiva's db?
01:08.51pra5adcos i get the mesh list with fully formed name elemts
01:09.17pra5adjustin put everything on the opterons
01:09.20pra5admysqld
01:16.14brlcadah, yes he's using mysqld for his storage
01:16.24``Erikcuz he's el loco
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01:21.48pra5adso ive got an infinitely long triangle
01:21.56pra5adyo mike
01:22.01tegtmeyehey!
01:22.14tegtmeyeSean on?
01:22.18brlcadof course not
01:22.28pra5adi should make that a trigger
01:22.30pra5ad=)
01:22.47brlcadwhile I make /kick pra5ad a trigger
01:22.55pra5adgattaca!!
01:23.07brlcadgood movie
01:23.13``Erikhehehe
01:23.16brlcaduma hotman
01:23.30tegtmeyeyo, more autoconf ?s
01:24.24pra5adahh i meant 'attica! attica!'
01:24.24tegtmeyehow to set your PREFIX as a macro inside, ie
01:24.26pra5adbloops =)
01:24.50tegtmeye#define MIKE_FOO PREFIX
01:25.03tegtmeyewhere do I get the PREFIX
01:25.11tegtmeyethat I used in configure?
01:25.45pra5admike: u have two meshes before and one after my mesh list, other than that the mesh/face counts are the same
01:25.50brlcadprefix is just the var "prefix"
01:26.28pra5admy mesh stride is correct (since im getting the correct mesh names)
01:26.29brlcadwhen configure is running, if the user hasn't specified prefix, it's set to "NONE"
01:27.17tegtmeyeso, I just set my macro as AC_DEFINE(prefix,...)?
01:27.26brlcadnot quite
01:28.10brlcadyou'll need to check for "NONE" otherwise you'll have a value of NONE in your config.h
01:28.14tegtmeyeprasad, did justin change the file?
01:28.27pra5adu mean db
01:28.28brlcadso make up your own var and check it.. something like:
01:28.30pra5adi dunno
01:28.44brlcadif test "x$prefix" = "xNONE" ; then
01:29.17brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:29.19brlcadelse
01:29.24brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:29.31brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:29.33brlcadfi
01:30.04brlcadAC_DEFINE_UNQUOTED([MIKE_FOO], "$tegt_prefix", "Location where we are installing to")
01:31.01tegtmeyeah...
01:31.19brlcadthat'll put a #define MIKE_FOO /path/to/whatever in your config.h
01:31.39tegtmeyethx!
01:32.08brlcadwhich can then be used in string concat or snprintf's or whatever
01:32.19tegtmeyeis that the std way of getting the prefix dir into your src or
01:32.47tegtmeyedo folks usually do something else?
01:33.45tegtmeyeprasad, u want me to generate and send you the component names?
01:34.28pra5adsure
01:34.33pra5adxon/tmp
01:34.57brlcadthat's the only way i've seen used to date
01:35.08brlcadnot many put the path in their project
01:35.22brlcadsince you usually want to allow the package to be relocateable
01:35.53brlcadbrl-cad only embeds it and uses it as part of a search-order for finding mged resource files
01:36.17brlcadcheck run-time path, compile-time path, current dir, etc
01:37.27tegtmeyeI'm asking for the config files, so the app knows to look in its PREFIX/etc dir unless told otherwise...
01:37.49tegtmeyeso basically the same reason...
01:40.07brlcadpretty much, though it should probably check the run-time path too ;)
01:40.27brlcadyou could snarf the code from libbu for that
01:41.21brlcadsrc/libbu/which.c for 'which' search semantics or src/libbu/whereis.c for 'whereis' style search semantics
01:41.27brlcad(probably would want 'which')
01:43.00pra5adwhat does the bu stand for
01:44.04brlcadlibbu, the brl-cad utility library
01:44.39brlcadlibbn, the brl-cad numerics library
01:44.48tegtmeyeprasad, tmp/out
01:44.54brlcadyou can s/brl-cad/basic/ too if you really wanted to
01:48.20pra5adnames match
01:48.32tegtmeyeackkk!!!! gotos in which.c! you bad modern programmer you;)
01:50.25brlcadcompile-time messy preprocessor convenience
01:51.17brlcadyou can rewrite it without the gotos but one of the few cases where the logic was more simplified with than without
01:52.40tegtmeyejust giving you trouble..., I have no trouble with the occasional goto
01:52.44brlcadthe files work well with bu_argv0() in src/libbu/brlcad_path.c if there's going to be a long time between starting up the app and searching for the runtime path
01:55.22pra5adman wtf :\
01:56.55brlcadtegtmeye: mind you those are for finding where the current running binary are located, you'd then use a relative path to find ../etc for example
01:57.06brlcadif it wasn't obvious
01:57.36tegtmeyegotcha
01:57.51tegtmeyewhats up prasad?
01:59.39pra5adheadache
01:59.39pra5adthis doesnt make sense
01:59.39``Erikdamn you whine a lot
01:59.42``Erik:D
01:59.45pra5adyes i do
01:59.48pra5addeal with it
01:59.59``Erik<-- unsheathes "tar arn"
02:00.26``Erikdon't step up, boy, I'm tequila drunk right now :D
02:00.33pra5adtegtmeye, look at this
02:00.34pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:00.34pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:00.50``Erik0,0,0, sane,inf,inf ?
02:01.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: run-time path identification of mged resources was never completed
02:01.36``Erikare you assuming something like float[3] when it's double[3] or visa versa?
02:03.34tegtmeyeactually, depends on what your doing. in adrt, those last #'s are considered 0 in 19 and wtf in 20
02:04.27pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:04.27pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:04.30pra5adthat's with doubles
02:04.33tegtmeyeare you actually doing somthing or still just reading in?
02:04.47brlcadwhat's your printf?
02:04.55brlcador whatever you're using
02:05.02tegtmeyeeverything he gave me was in floats with the indes as shorts
02:05.11pra5adcout << "\t Vertex " << vidx << ") [ " << pt_list[ pt_idx ] << " , " <<
02:05.11pra5adpt_list[ pt_idx + 1 ] << " , " << pt_list[ pt_idx + 2 ] << " ]" << endl;
02:05.15pra5adyea ive been using floats
02:05.38pra5adpt_list is a float*
02:05.56brlcadwhat's 19/20 for double?
02:06.35pra5ader?
02:06.42pra5adoh sec
02:07.15pra5adhrm would help if i remember what mesh it was
02:07.24pra5adlemme get a new pair of vals
02:08.19pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:08.19pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:08.22pra5adfor float
02:09.34pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:09.35pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:09.37pra5addbl
02:10.01brlcadeh, you have something screwy going on elsewhere
02:10.14brlcadthey shouldn't be different if the db has a float
02:11.13brlcaddouble looks more correct
02:11.24pra5adno its not
02:11.27pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:11.27pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:11.30pra5adfor dbl
02:11.45brlcadwell, for 19/20 it "looks more correct"
02:11.53brlcadwhich it shouldn't regardless
02:12.02brlcadhence "you have something screwy going on elsewhere"
02:13.36tegtmeyeI agree, the values should not have an 'e' in them anywhere if memory serves
02:13.45tegtmeyefor any of the meshes
02:14.17pra5adthe mesh strides are correct for float and dbl
02:14.26pra5adid assume both are dbl word
02:14.55pra5ad.. *shrug*
02:15.43Twingywhat
02:16.14pra5addid u change the geometry data in the db recently?
02:16.36Twingyin mysql?
02:16.40pra5adyes
02:16.57Twingynope, haven't changed the format since tegtmeyer suggested a change in september
02:17.21pra5adur tfloat is a normal float, yes?
02:17.28Twingycurrently, yes
02:17.45pra5adgetting bogus values for vertex data
02:17.47Twingyparsing difficulties?
02:17.53pra5adyes
02:17.58Twingydid you read in the endian and revision?
02:18.05Twingy2 byte endian, 2 byte revision
02:18.24pra5adhmm
02:18.41Twingythen mesh name length 1 byte, mesh name string N bytes, vertex num, vertex data
02:18.52Twingyit's all in the 200 or so lines of load.c
02:19.05pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:19.05pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:19.09pra5adthat's all u do
02:19.19pra5adi dont see any revision extraction
02:19.19Twingyok, then do that
02:19.26pra5adand that's what i did
02:19.28TwingyI probly removed it
02:19.39Twingyin september
02:19.40pra5adso is there a 2B revision ?
02:19.50Twingydon't worry about revision for now
02:20.01Twingywhat's the next 4 bytes
02:20.09pra5adi can traverse ur byte array fine
02:20.16pra5adsince i can extract mesh names correctly
02:20.21TwingyI see
02:20.46pra5addunno why vertex data is giving inf values
02:20.52Twingyand vertex num is okay?
02:21.04Twingyare you getting sane vertex num values?
02:21.11pra5adnot all the time
02:21.25Twingyare you handling the face indices correctly?
02:21.32pra5adand vnum has to be correct for the mesh strides to work right
02:21.34pra5adand ive checked with tegtmeyer's output
02:21.35Twingy1 byte to denate short or int
02:21.42pra5adyes
02:21.51pra5adit's a direct translation from ur code
02:22.03Twingymaybe your mysql loader is borked?
02:22.28Twingyyou did a use result, and then got the first row
02:22.33Twingyand are running through row[0] I guess
02:22.38tegtmeyetegtmeye doesn't see any tile work going on...
02:22.46Twingytile work for what?
02:22.50Twingyoh
02:22.53Twingyjust laid down 22
02:22.53tegtmeyeu finished?
02:22.57tegtmeyeah
02:23.09TwingyI need a break or else I can't lay down another batch tonight
02:23.14TwingyI'm at 160 now
02:23.22Twingyspeant the last 3 hours on that
02:23.22pra5addude.. i just told u i can extract ur mesh names from the byte array. to do that i need to have the correct data sizes and limits (which apparenty i do)
02:23.26pra5adwhatever
02:23.46Twingydoes the first mesh come through ok?
02:24.01TwingyI think it's like 22 faces
02:24.12TwingyI remember that from tegtmeyer's test program
02:24.31pra5adname: /scene/light1.r/light1.bot^@
02:24.31pra5advertices: 8
02:24.31pra5adfaces: 12
02:24.48Twingywhat's the ^@ ?
02:25.10pra5adask mike
02:25.27pra5adthis is his output
02:25.34Twingywhat geometry is this?
02:25.40Twingyis this the humvee?
02:25.55pra5adt62
02:25.56``Erikheh
02:26.09``Erikisn't ^@ a \0 ?
02:26.19Twingyanyway
02:26.26Twingythat looks okay
02:26.33pra5adhas to be the t62, since my #1 mesh is his #3 mesh
02:26.34Twingywhat do you get for first vertice?
02:26.39pra5adand it follows that pattern
02:26.48pra5admy mesh id = tegt mesh + 2
02:27.00pra5adand mesh properties are equal
02:28.21tegtmeyeyea, t62. the ^@ is mac newline stupidity
02:28.53Twingysooo you gonna answer my question?
02:29.23pra5ad[Mesh16 0] '/compartment/hull/hull_ext/hull_armor/rt_side/r160/r160.bot'
02:29.23pra5ad- ( 66 | 140 )
02:29.50pra5adthat's (verts, faces)
02:30.00Twingyk
02:30.27Twingyand the first vert?
02:30.55``Erikyowza, i'm behind on rvb
02:31.14pra5adsec
02:32.05Twingymeh, I need to shave
02:32.10Twingyand get some sleep again
02:32.20pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:32.20pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:32.20pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:32.20pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:32.28Twingythose look sane
02:32.33pra5adyea well..
02:32.49Twingyit almost seems like a memory leak or buffer overlow or something
02:32.53pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:32.53pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:32.58Twingyah
02:33.07Twingyat 55 it starts screwing up?
02:33.19pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:33.19pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:33.19pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:33.19pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:33.34brlcadprobably walking the array in some bogus manner
02:33.38Twingyand you're 100% positive for that mesh you're reading the face indexes in as shorts
02:34.01Twingy*indices
02:34.08pra5adif it printed out as mesh16 then yes
02:34.15Twingyah, k
02:34.30pra5adits weird
02:34.33pra5adat 17 it goes haywire
02:34.38pra5adthen at 36 it's sane again
02:34.40Twingylet me think
02:34.47pra5adat 46 it goes nuts again
02:34.54Twingyis there a pattern?
02:34.54pra5adat 57 its sane
02:35.26brlcadi bet you're reading garbage or filling your array wrong
02:35.33brlcadinit your array to all zero
02:35.40pra5adwhat array? lol
02:35.43Twingyhe's not filling an array
02:35.49Twingyhe's parsing a blob of binary data
02:35.53pra5adyes there looks like a pattern
02:36.07pra5adthere's N sane and N garbage
02:36.13brlcadthe blob the array then
02:36.18Twingyso there's a 2*X issue
02:36.36brlcadand your index is probably wrong then
02:36.40pra5adbut the num_verts and num_faces are good
02:37.06Twingyprint the face indices out
02:37.10Twingynot the vertice values
02:37.15pra5addoing that too
02:37.19pra5adand there's the same pattern
02:37.25Twingywhat're they?
02:37.29pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:37.29pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:37.29pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:37.29pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:37.29pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:37.30pra5ad<PROTECTED>
02:37.37pra5adthat 2x issue
02:37.57brlcadhow big is the blob?
02:38.07brlcadbyte-wise
02:38.14Twingyselect gsize from geometry
02:38.30*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
02:38.33Twingyof course not
02:39.14pra5adGeom data size: 1549673
02:39.20brlcadi wouldn't know otherwise, i don't know what the geometry is :P
02:39.24Twingy1.5 meg
02:39.41Twingyhe's parsing a little itty bitty mesh < 100 triangles
02:39.42pra5adthe face idx should be 0 < fidx < 66
02:39.50Twingyyea
02:40.17Twingywait
02:40.25Twingywhy are you printing face 67 - 72
02:40.29Twingyoh, nm
02:44.09Twingyyour indexing is wrong
02:44.09Twingy<PROTECTED>
02:44.09Twingypra5ad           mesh.AddVertex( pt_list[ pt_idx ] ,
02:44.09Twingypra5ad                           pt_list[ pt_idx + 1 ],
02:44.09Twingypra5ad                           pt_list[ pt_idx + 2 ] );
02:44.09pra5addamn
02:44.09Twingypt_idx is not bytes
02:44.09pra5adthat's not it
02:44.09Twingyit's an integer into the array
02:44.19Twingyyou're calculating bytes
02:44.20pra5adyea agreed
02:44.44pra5adthanks :D
02:44.52Twingyyou bet
02:45.48pra5admuch better
02:47.15Twingyget rid of mesh.AddVertex when you're done too
02:47.25Twingycalling a function will cause you great performance grief
02:47.45Twingyit'll add an extra minute to loading stryker
02:50.23pra5adO3 will inline it
03:00.51tegtmeyecya...
04:28.51Twingyand that makes another 10
05:56.43*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
07:46.08*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
11:37.29*** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-68-251-147-85.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
11:37.52fennahoy mateys!
11:38.52fenni'm looking for a relatively simple solid modeling language to simulate collisions in machine tools
11:39.21fennstuff like cylinder, cube, sphere, cone, prism
11:57.46fennalso testing for collisions with a nurbs toolpath would be nice
11:58.16fennwhat parts of the brlcad tree would i need for this? or is brlcad the wrong tool for the job?
13:27.31brlcadfenn, brl-cad wouldn't be the wrong tool for the job, but depending on exactly what you want changes what you might want to look at
13:27.41brlcadand coding will probably be required
13:27.46fennyeah definitely
13:28.02brlcadlibrt is where all the primitive and geometry introspect (via ray shooting) lives
13:28.20fennwhat handles geometry intersections?
13:28.52fennoh the other tricky thing is i have to transform some things into n dimensional space
13:28.52brlcadit's implicit geometry representations
13:29.04brlcadso geometry intersections are known when a ray is fired
13:29.19brlcadand the implicit equations and segment/partition lists are computed
13:30.00brlcadyou can register callback handles via the raytrace programming api for hit/miss/overlap
13:30.24fennso a ray is like a vector? it has magnitude?
13:30.47brlcada ray has a starting position and a direction
13:30.57fennhmmm
13:31.12brlcadyou can get geometry information along that ray
13:31.18fenni need to know if a vector is inside a volume
13:32.48fennbrlcad is probably the wrong tool for this
13:33.59brlcadif your talking about what I think you're talking about
13:34.24brlcadthen you have some "tool", a shaped carving/cutting bit with some 3d shape
13:34.38fenneh, no that's a different project
13:35.12brlcadoh?  then what the "testing for collsions with a nurbs toolpath" mean?
13:35.53fennok these projects are all related you can see
13:36.11fenni have a CAM project that takes a solid and plans out the toolpaths
13:36.22brlcadk
13:36.34fennnow we are working on a new CNC motion controller to replace emc
13:37.07fennthey have some similar functions and some redundant functions
13:37.20fennlike the cnc controller has to be able to compensate for cutters of different sizes
13:38.07fennso if you have are cutting a sharp inside corner for instance, you dont want to blindly offset the path by some amount
13:38.21fennthis kinda hard without pictures
13:38.28brlcadi think i follow though
13:38.51fennso, cutter comp and toolpath planning in the CAM are pretty similar
13:38.58brlcadyou want a sharp corner, and if you were using a large circular cut, you'd have a big corner curve
13:39.08fennyeah
13:39.48fennif you follow the path that was made for a smaller cutter it might go too far into the corner and gouge the part
13:40.12fennso i wanted to do collision detection between the toolpath and the cutter
13:40.17fennmake sense?
13:40.24brlcadnow do you restrict the toolpath to "mostly" 2D (like a thin slab of metal being cut), or entirely 2D (sheet-metal style cutting), or entirely 3d?
13:40.47fennit's restricted to mostly 2d
13:40.52fenni think it's kinda dumb myself
13:41.02fennwhy not just run it thru cam again?
13:41.10fennbut anyway..
13:41.47brlcadso basically it's a 2D cutting path and toolbit exercise where you just have to take the vertical shape of the toolbit into consideration
13:43.16fennthe main problem i've been thinking about is how to transform arbitrary geometries from "cartesian space" to "joint space"
13:43.39fennwhere "joint space" is the space with a set of basis vectors defined by the actual motions of the machine tool
13:44.09fennlike a milling machine will have a quill, a knee, an X axis and a Y axis
13:44.40fennso in this instance you are taking a 3d toolpath and transforming it into 4 dimensional space
13:45.36fennnow you want to make sure that you are within a specified tolerance, but the information in realtime is coming from the joints
13:46.12brlcadhave you run rtedge in brl-cad yet?
13:46.17fennso i think it's easier to transform the tolerance into joint space before the machine moves than to try to transform all the joints back into normal cartesian coordinates
13:46.28fennno.. *hangs his head*
13:46.56fenni get lost every time i try to use brlcad
13:46.59brlcadthat effectively solves the path contour, detecting/reporting the edge of a specified slice of geometry
13:47.28brlcadyou could even use the results as basis vectors for a 2D bezier path directly
13:47.54fennlike slicing a part along the z axis?
13:48.00brlcadyou'd have to account for the direction changes to detect inside/outside corners that would need a different toolbit
13:48.17brlcadagain, as you noted, pictures would help :)
13:51.11fenni figured this is the sort of stuff you did in simulations
13:52.06brlcadit is in many ways
13:52.56brlcadthose are almost always custom algorithms but the basic need is for geometric introspection, which is what librt provides
13:53.05*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable065.3-83-70.mc.videotron.ca)
13:53.25brlcadfull blown simulations of a munition hitting a target can be simulated that way
13:53.32fennis there a way to get librt without all the rest of brlcad?
13:53.40brlcador energy/blast effects, etc
13:53.51brlcadheh
13:53.58fennif not it's not a big deal
13:53.59brlcadyou could, sure .. but "why"? :)
13:54.22fennfor instance if you're running a cnc controller off a usb stick and dont have space for all of brlcad
13:54.32brlcadah, for that purpose, sure
13:55.05fenncool.. i'll have to look into it more then
13:55.53brlcadlibrt relies upon brl-cad's basic numerics and utility libraries (libbn and libbu), libregex, and libz
13:56.20brlcadso you pull those four directories out, and you'd have just what you needed, a fairly contained library
13:56.45fennthey're just shared library files right? (.so)
13:56.46brlcadI could make a configure target for that as well for convenience
13:57.11brlcadshared or static
13:57.11fennwell, .a, close enough
13:58.34fenni can just link to that at compile time
14:14.18fennthanks for talking to me.. i'll be back
14:14.32*** part/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-68-251-147-85.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
14:33.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: rtedge-style tracer that outputs tool paths for CNC/CAM tool path decriptions (g-code output)
14:34.54archivistdefinable g-code as not all machines use all g-codes
14:35.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am:
14:35.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: the regression tests should run regardless of the output files. in fact, start
14:35.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: by cleaning out the directory first so we're always at a known starting state.
14:35.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: have each test output when it's complete and a message at the end to indicate
14:35.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: that testing was completed successfully
14:35.55brlcaddefinable, hmm
14:36.12brlcadfrom what i've seen, g-code is a mostly 'standardized' format
14:36.42brlcadnot sure if it was a proper ieee/acm spec of any sort, but the doc I remember reading from many moons ago seemed relatively clear
14:37.13archivistsome machines(older) have a very small subset
14:37.26brlcadah, subsets would probably be fine
14:38.03brlcadcould be some sort of compliance/version level option on the output
14:38.14brlcadlike outputting vrml 2 vs 1 etc
14:38.39archivistI have seen tick box method to choose avalable before processing
14:39.13brlcadeasy enough
14:39.34brlcadthe task really is mostly written already via rtedge
14:39.56brlcadall that's missing is tying the segments together into continuous contours solving for a bezier path
14:40.47brlcadsince associativity is lost/not needed for creating an image
14:40.52archivistmachine here would not understand a bezier
14:41.05brlcadwouldn't need to
14:41.12brlcadit's just solving "the path"
14:41.29brlcadthe actual output could be segments, points, arcs, whatever
14:41.55brlcadsince they're just a descretization of the mathematical tooling path
15:34.33archivisthad a visitor
15:35.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
15:35.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: david becker provided vectorized implementations of the shot routines for
15:35.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: several of the primitives. the qualifies as a significant coding contribution.
15:35.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: his placement in the time ordering might not be right, but CVS log shows he
15:35.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: contributed circa 1988/1989
15:37.20archivistorder matters as machining one dir will give a different size due to tool and machine spring (older machines have no compensation or tool path direction sorting/correction)
15:55.19*** join/#brlcad paul_c (n=paul@cpc1-norw1-6-0-cust99.pete.cable.ntl.com)
16:03.48learnerhowdy paul_c
16:04.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: (log message trimmed)
16:04.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: Spencer, Thomas W.; McKie, Jim; Davies, Steve; Turkowski, Ken; Woods, James A.;
16:04.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: Orost, Joseph; all added with special thanks for the (indirect) contributions to
16:04.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: the package. in particular, they all worked on the code 'compress.c' that
16:04.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: serves as the basis for out libfb compression, added by chris johnson in 1991.
16:04.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: the code was derived from software contributed to Berkeley by James A. Woods,
16:04.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: derived from original work by Spencer Thomas and Joseph Orost. Spencer Thomas
16:04.35paul_cHi learner
16:04.58paul_cJust wondering if there was a Debian package for brlcad
16:05.04learnerheh
16:05.11learnersort of
16:05.15learnerit's not in apt yet afaik
16:05.34learnernobody has taken the time to submit it or be a sponsor or request a sponsor, etc
16:05.46learnerbut there was at least one fellow that made a .deb for it
16:06.58learnerto be honest, though, it should be considerably more easy to compile from source
16:07.13learnerthe .deb was for an older version
16:07.35learneri'd be glad to walk you through the steps if you're interested
16:07.54paul_csource compiles are OK up to a point..
16:08.47paul_cgoogle is my fiend... http://scientificcomputing.net/debian/packages/brlcad/
16:09.35learnerlooks good enough
16:09.57learner7.6.6 is the latest going out today so that's not too far back (3 months or so)
16:10.14learnerthough the gfdl comment is no longer valid
16:10.41learnerthe docs are user-selectably gfdl or gpl
16:10.51paul_cWith the source package available, it wouldn't be too difficult to rebuild with 7.6.6 sources.
16:13.31paul_cthe next Q. which I 'spose gets asked quite often....
16:13.45paul_cAre there any CAM export options ?
16:16.19learneryep, very often :)
16:16.35learneralmost as often as questions regarding cadd (drafting/dimensioning)
16:16.47learnerthere are not cam export options
16:17.20paul_cany in the pipeline that you know of ?
16:17.29learnerthough moding one of the existing tools, or writing a new tool to do this would not be very hard at all .. just need to find someone interested enough to take the initiative
16:17.38learners/though/through/
16:18.30learnerit's in the pipeline for sure, but it's very far down the list of priorities for this year with the current devs .. need more people to get involved that have cam interest
16:18.55learnerso far, more people are stepping up to the plate in support of cadd and fem
16:20.55paul_cthat doesn't suprise me TBH
16:21.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: recognize special thanks to balbir thomas for putting together the first debian package for brl-cad
16:21.35learnerthere was one guy heavily interested at first
16:22.04learnerbut he started working on a step converter first
16:22.27learnerand that is one big complicated/expensive and time consuming task to approach
16:22.29paul_ceeeuuw... ;)
16:23.23learnerwe have most of the pieces now
16:23.43learnerpurchased most of the relevant portions of the spec from ieee
16:24.00learnerhave a c parser for at least the 2001 revision, iirc
16:24.17paul_ca parser for step ?
16:24.32learneryes, ap21 or whatever it's called
16:24.43learnerthe file format for step
16:25.03learnerfor the purpose of creating step-g and g-step converters
16:25.16learnerat least step-g
16:25.21paul_cears prick up big time.
16:25.51paul_cstep is mostly XML data format ?
16:26.15learnerhe started updating the parser for the 2003 revision of step and that's where he started hitting brick walls, incompatible inconsistencies in the spec
16:26.22learnerno, it's not
16:26.43learnerthey use EXPRESS
16:27.05learnerwhich is a markup language in itself, similar to XML
16:27.37learnerso you have to write an express parser (which is what we have, through support of nist)
16:28.01learnerand then a translation from express for conformancy against one of the step AP interfaces
16:28.11learnerlike AP201 for "solid modeling"
16:28.30learneror 203 for CSG operations, etc
16:29.01learnerTHEN .. you can worry about translating objects to/from brl-cad and step format
16:29.09paul_cgot it.. Some test data from NIST. It includes some *.stp files.
16:29.32paul_cwhich I assume are the STEP files ?
16:29.47learnerthere express parser had several bugs and cross-platform support issues that we updated too
16:29.55learneryes, stp are step files
16:30.09learnerthose are the 2001 variant/compliant that I referred to
16:31.04learnernist only developed the parser as a one-shot deal and are no longer interested in maintaining the project, so we were given pretty leniant leeway to take over development
16:31.14paul_c*slap.. I know where the XML idea came from now.
16:31.50learnerthere is a proposal for an xml-based step format, but it's still not finalized or even in final draft form iirc
16:31.56paul_cWill & Fred over at NIST were working on XML data exchange with rcslib
16:35.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: consistent usage of periods on middle name initials
16:38.12paul_chrmm.. Was there a reason for patching tcl/tk ?
16:40.16learneryes
16:40.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
16:40.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: daniel dender was involed in the 3.0->4.x days minimally and has code credited
16:40.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: to his name in mged (facedef.c) as well as the patch-g converter, so attribute
16:40.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: him appropriately into the coding contributions section. he was also actively
16:40.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: involved on the old mailing list.
16:40.48learnerwe've made several tcl/tk mods over the years, some that have made their way into the distribution, some that haven't still
16:41.21learnerone of the two main differences we have now are a bezier canvas widget to Tk
16:41.33learnerthough I recently moved that out of libtk into a different library
16:41.59learnerarchivist, where?
16:42.23archivistdaniel dender was involed in the 3.0->4.x
16:42.28learnerah
16:42.51learnerno biggie then :)  i at least got it right later on
16:44.04learnerwoo hoo.. only 8 more names unaccounted for in the authors file
16:46.43learnerpaul_c, the other reason is that the tcl/tk build was broken for several platforms that we support so we actually don't use their build system for the version we ship
16:47.11learnertheoretically, though, you should be able to --disable-tcl-build and --disable-tk-build and have brl-cad use a system-installed tcl/tk with no problem
16:47.56paul_cOK.. I'll have to look in to that over the weekend.
16:48.36learnerthe decoupling of modifications to tcl/tk was specifically done to appease the apt/ports/portage crowds
16:49.36learnerthere's still a few more things that I'd like to change in support of the packaging systems, but it should at least 'work' now without requiring installation into /usr/brlcad
16:50.39paul_cI have to head off to the wastelands of Norfolk in a few mins...
16:51.00paul_cI'll try and catch you guys early next week.
16:52.06archivisttis a bit barren in Norfolk
16:52.09learnersounds like fun
16:52.25learneryet Norfolk & Western play good music ;)
16:52.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
16:52.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: joe johnson worked with steve satterfield on the Lyon-Lamb VAS IV video
16:52.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: animation controller (vas4) code .. should probably be in code contributions,
16:52.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: need to revisi more carefully later. maybe have a talk with steve first.
16:53.23archivistoo revisi another new word
16:53.44learnerhmm yes
16:53.59learneri should type less when I've not eaten or drank anything today yet
16:54.31archivistmy typing on irc can be bad sometimes
17:01.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
17:01.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: Martin, Glenn E. and Willson, Stephen Hunter of the Northrup Research and
17:01.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: Technology Center worked with Mike on the Tektronix 4109 device driver display
17:01.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: manager interface circa 1986 according to cvs logs. credit them with special
17:01.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: thanks.
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17:35.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to f. kenton musgrave and robert skinner for algorithm support in the perlin-style noise function and height field primitive (Grid Tracing: Fast Ray Tracing for Height Fields paper)
17:36.52learnerwoot, only 3 names left!
18:33.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: brant ross wrote the FrameBuffer library interface for Raster Technology One/80 (libfb's if_rat.c), fairly significant coding contribution
18:34.40brlcad2!
18:41.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to william sebok for his fast Princeton memory allocater routines that john added to libbu as pmalloc.c in 1997 with some modifications.
18:52.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
18:52.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: special thanks goes out to charles stanley for his support of the package in the
18:52.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: development of mged. charles/chuck is listed in the historic documentation, but
18:52.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: is not authored on any of the files -- managerial support in a similar vein as
18:52.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: deitz perhaps, though his participation does seem to go far back to near the
18:52.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: start of the project
18:54.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
18:54.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: WOO HOO, no more names to be filed.. there may be a few names that still need to
18:54.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: get credited, but the list is considerably more comprehensive now. could use
18:54.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: more work on the chronological ordering and perhaps some indication of years in
18:54.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: the file itself, but it's a good start.
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21:01.26*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
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22:54.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS configure.ac): prepare for release, 7.6.6
23:52.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add an alias for --enable-everything of --enable-build-everything
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051217

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051217

00:14.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add a summary paragraph that mentions the continued point modeling support enhancements and completion of the AUTHORS file history research.
00:23.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: updates since 7.6.4
02:02.17pra5adblargh
02:02.24pra5advbo had no improvement
02:02.30pra5ad2fps for stryker
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19:10.13brlcadahh
19:14.08pra5adyes
19:18.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: add debug printing for all files that are checked for existence
19:28.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: add a bu_vls_sprintf() that differs from bu_vls_printf() in that it truncates the vls before printing into it, whereas the printf variant appends. doxygenify the existing comments while we're in here.
20:30.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c:
20:30.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: rewrite tclcad_auto_path() to search somewhat more intelligently and
20:30.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: consistently when brl-cad hasn't been installed yet. search up to SEARCH_DEPTH
20:30.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: levels (currently 7) so deep tclscript paths will ami.tcl correctly (presently 4
20:30.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: or 5 levels required)
21:07.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved mged resource searching when not installed
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21:43.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: s/not apparently/apparently not/
22:12.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_dsp.c: make sure the dbip pointer is valid before dereferencing it
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23:28.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: asc2g needs to be built static if this in the buggy 7.3 irix compiler that crashes on long rpaths
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051218

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051218

00:29.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (5 files): negative numbers are not valid exit codes. they're 8 bit unsigned values, so just exit 1 instead to indicate the error.
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06:31.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: our awf doesn't understand ./" manpage comments
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16:25.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: revert the free'ing of memory on bu_vls_init -- instead report on the issue so that those callers may be fixed.
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20:12.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_prj.c: don't rely on the content length of the bu_vls when printing for now. doxygenify the comments
20:24.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: there are apparently a lot of these, so disable the check for now until it's determined why this happens
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051219

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051219

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20:54.38pier_Hi everyone! Is anyone out there?
21:01.43joevalleyfieldout there... ou-air... ou-air
21:07.20``ErikO.o
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23:00.46cad193is anybody here
23:01.53cad193i was looking for the latest brlcad version in .exe or .rpm (I can't get it to work with .bz2 or .gz)
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23:05.40maccam912hi i was just here as cad193 but now i'm on my windows box. I am wondering about the .exe or .rpm brlcad software, current version please. If I am not here when I have a reply, send me links or more info at maccam912@gmail.com     Thanks
23:05.56cad193Thanks
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051220

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051220

00:35.46*** join/#brlcad maccam912 (n=maccam91@71-10-127-82.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com)
00:36.13maccam912hello?
00:37.01maccam912stilll waiting for links to .exe or .rpm compiled versions of BRLCAD. email links to   maccam912@gmail.com    please.
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00:44.19polyspinanyone remember how to duplicate a boot disk on a Mac?
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01:24.16brlcadDiskCopy?
01:26.37brlcadif you mean duplicate the contents of your bootable drive contents, something like Carbon Copy Cloner does the trick
01:26.51brlcadif you mean duplicate a bootable CD, should just be a matter of copying the CD
01:27.05brlcadhttp://www.bombich.com/mactips/image.html
01:28.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: sourceforge finally removed the stale cvs lock, update version to 7.6.6
01:30.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/macosx/Resources/ (ReadMe.rtfd/TXT.rtf Welcome.rtfd/TXT.rtf): update to 7.6.6
01:32.30pra5adTwingy,
01:32.48pra5adis the endian flag set for all models in the db?
01:33.15pra5adif so, which value for big endian
01:36.07polyspinI've got a second drive with a partition I'd like to make 1) bootable and 2) an exact duplicate of my main drive.
01:36.31brlcadahh, then that link is more in line with what you need
01:36.55polyspinthx
01:48.58pra5adbrlcad,
01:49.06brlcadpra5ad,
01:49.12pra5addoes bzflag have endian swap/check code ?
01:49.25brlcadof course
01:49.42pra5adgot a url?
01:50.47brlcadwell, what do you mean first
01:51.03brlcadthe protocol code does what bz does, calls htons htonl, etc
01:51.13brlcadnetwork representation is the "standard"
01:51.31pra5adhttp://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292902
01:51.38brlcadyou could/should just use those routines
01:51.39pra5adthis guy is clueless then?
01:51.51pra5adQ: Why didn't you just use 'ntohl()' and 'htonl()'?
01:51.51pra5adA: These functions
01:51.51pra5ad<PROTECTED>
01:51.51pra5ad<PROTECTED>
01:52.14brlcadheh
01:52.38brlcadneither does that code necessarily
01:52.50brlcadyou see, you have objects that are maybe 4 bytes long
01:52.58brlcadthey can be 4321 or 1234
01:53.08brlcador 4312 4123 etc
01:53.22brlcaddepends if you want to support that
01:54.09brlcadhtonl and family take care of that and are about as portable as fork()
01:54.11pra5adand what endian are those?
01:54.20brlcad"middle endian"
01:54.30brlcadpretty rare these days
01:54.49brlcadbut about as lame as his reason for not using htonl
01:55.51brlcadthey aren't part of C but so is a ton of other stuff everyone uses, they are however a part of POSIX
01:56.10brlcadand posix is the best golden ruler to follow if your gonna follow any of them
01:56.25pra5adwhat additional dependancy does htonl need
01:56.34brlcaddependency?
01:56.52pra5adyes
01:57.29brlcadyour question makes no sense
01:57.40pra5adarpa/inet.h
01:57.51pra5adwhat lib is that part of?
01:59.00brlcadit's not an external library
01:59.08brlcadyou're still dealing with the C library
01:59.25brlcadit's just not part of the early C standards, heck might have even been added to the latter C standard
01:59.43brlcaddoesn't matter, it's been a part of systems for about two decades
01:59.54brlcadwas part of the bsd standard
02:00.01brlcadbecame part of posix
02:00.07pra5adnetinet/in.h
02:00.43brlcadare you asking what headers do you need to include to use htonl?
02:00.57brlcadthat's not an "additional dependency" :P
02:01.14brlcadthat's just how you use functions, man byteorder
02:01.23pra5adno, lib
02:01.38pra5adthought it was a seperate net lib
02:01.56brlcadshould just need to include arpa/inet.h and maybe add -lc
02:04.28brlcadby the way, you will need to check whether you are the same or different as the network format
02:04.48brlcadif you are the same, ntoh is going to be a pass-through
02:06.40brlcadso given you know it's already one way or the other, you might just want to write a simple swap define
02:08.15brlcade.g. #define swap16(x) ((((uint16)(x) & 0xff00) >> 8) | (((uint16)(x) & 0x00ff) << 8))
02:08.47brlcadthen you can detect his big/little endian flag, and compare to you and if they are different, swap bytes
02:08.56brlcaddefine something similar for swap32 and so on
02:11.40pra5adhmm
02:12.08pra5adhow bout a generic swap( byte* , sizeof )
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04:13.56brlcadmacro version is considerably faster
04:40.37pra5adforce inline
04:46.18learnereven inlined
04:46.56learnernot that it matters a whole lot, you only need to swap once on read
04:51.43pra5adyes
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14:12.26learner/away i'm not really here
14:12.40brlcadthat's not very useful now is it
15:23.53*** join/#brlcad cad969 (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:53.43brlcadhttp://beta.bzflag.bz/side_small.png
18:54.21brlcadcool tankie :)
18:55.33joevalleyfieldlooks a little like the batmobile from last summer's movie
20:46.30*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
20:56.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the following methods: decimate, decimate2, decimateAttr and decimateAttr2. Mods to import a single STL file or a directory of STL files.
21:04.55*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@70.83.3.65)
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21:17.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/shoot.c: these comparisons are order invariant so change from a >= b to !(a < b) for better performance on G5 processors
21:57.48*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
22:01.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac README include/config_win.h): bump the revision number to 7.6.7 post release, next version is trepidly going to be 7.6.8, maybe 7.8.0 if windows work begins merging in time (which isn't likely given there's only two weeks).
22:05.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add a section for 7.6.7, make initial note that this is our one year anniversary
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051221

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051221

00:05.29``Erikyo ho ho
00:06.17pra5adbah humbug
00:10.14brlcadmmmm.. tastes like burning
00:12.32pra5adsmells like blood
00:13.05archivistis toast on the menu
00:47.50pra5adwhats the last line in canadian addresses?
00:51.39pra5adhmm guess its not the last line
00:54.45pra5adahh postal code
01:12.43*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:29.00pra5admike
01:29.34pra5adis it possible to 'templatize' the inheritance system we discussed
01:30.09tegtmeyehow so?
01:30.29pra5adu r the expert
01:30.30pra5adheh
01:31.03tegtmeyeshort answer yes, they are called policy traits
01:31.12pra5adoh
01:31.36tegtmeyethey syntax is ugly, but you don't pay for it at runtime
01:32.01tegtmeyewhat did you have in mind?
01:32.19pra5adgood question
01:32.24pra5adwanted to simplify it
01:32.53pra5adjust wondering if it's at all possible
01:33.59tegtmeyewithout being a cliche', almost anythign is possible with templates, it is just a matter of how ugly and unmaintainable do you want your code to be
01:34.34pra5adhas someone invented the 'write-once-reuse-forever' code yet?
01:34.56tegtmeyeyea, they tried and failed (Java) :)
01:35.07pra5adhah
01:35.25pra5adso u r telling me that templates will be obfuscated by something else
01:35.59pra5adeep wrong word
01:36.04pra5adobsolete*
01:36.16pra5admade*
01:36.17pra5ad..
01:37.34tegtmeyeI'm sure eventually, just like any other language.
01:37.59pra5adheretic words
01:38.14pra5adi thought u were a template zealot
01:38.14pra5ad=)
01:38.20tegtmeyeSome are just harder than others, look at FORTRAN, its still trieng to be put down...
01:38.29pra5ads/were/are/
01:38.48tegtmeyeI am:)
01:38.58tegtmeyeand with luck, I'll make you one too ;)
01:39.53pra5adhehe
01:40.07pra5adso far ive avoided it
01:44.39brlcadtemplates are/can be good stuff
01:46.37tegtmeyeI generally agree,
01:47.38tegtmeyeIt comes down to cost/benifit, most will overlook overly templatized code if it result is a significant performance gain
01:48.47brlcadsure, but then my take on that is that computers get faster than we can write code .. i'll take maintainable over bleeding fast any day
01:48.53brlcadit is a tradeoff though for sure
01:49.01brlcadsome is great
01:49.35brlcaddoing it blindly "'cause it's faster" is like "never" using goto or "never" using assembly etc
01:49.53brlcadabsolutes are always evil ;)
01:50.32tegtmeyeSince your on...
01:50.58brlcadheh
01:51.02brlcadi'm always on
01:51.10tegtmeyeHow to you set up your convenience library in autoconf again? Is it prog_name_LDFLAGS=somelib.la ???
01:51.19tegtmeyeheh
01:51.22brlcadjust not always listening or willing to answer ;)
01:51.26tegtmeyelol
01:51.43brlcadconvenience libs are noinst_LTLIBRARIES
01:51.53tegtmeyesorry,
01:52.08brlcadflags for them go to LDFLAGS
01:52.16brlcadlibs they depend on go to LIBS
01:52.25brlcadsame as for binaries
01:52.25tegtmeyeok,
01:52.42tegtmeyebinary foo needs to link agains convenience lib bar...
01:52.46brlcadsomelib_la_LIBS = $(top_srcdir)/path/to/foo.la
01:52.56tegtmeyeah, right,
01:52.58tegtmeyethanks
01:53.13brlcader, sorry
01:53.46brlcadthat'd be a LIBADD to add a lib to a lib
01:54.03brlcadsomelib_la_LIBADD = $(top_srcdir)/path/to/foo.la
01:54.23tegtmeyewhat about binary?
01:54.27brlcadsomebinary_la_LDADD = ...
01:54.34tegtmeyeroger...
01:54.38tegtmeyethanks
01:54.42brlcadde nada
01:58.54tegtmeyeadrttest_la_LDADD= $(top_srcdir)/adrt/libadrt.la
01:59.03tegtmeyeadrt_test/Makefile.am:5: variable `adrttest_la_LDADD' is defined but no program or
01:59.03tegtmeyeadrt_test/Makefile.am:5: library has `adrttest_la' as canonic name (possible typo)
01:59.13tegtmeye...lost of ld errors....
01:59.22tegtmeyes/lost/lots
01:59.34brlcad:)
01:59.38brlcadyou got em reversed
01:59.56brlcadif it's a library libadd, binary, ldadd
02:00.04tegtmeyedrat!
02:00.36brlcadhence you used ldadd, so it presumes a binary program and gives an error about no adrttest_la program
02:01.00tegtmeyeor drate four thos wo caan reed
02:01.37brlcadhuukt awn fonicks
02:02.21pra5admike, does stringstream.str() create a copy?
02:02.36tegtmeyeyes it does
02:02.46tegtmeyelol...
02:02.47pra5adhow bout c_str()
02:02.50tegtmeyeno
02:02.53pra5adk
02:03.55brlcadhence the constness of the type it returns :P
02:04.34brlcadthe old sgi references are great for stl info
02:06.59pra5adid rather ask mike "i breath stl" tegtmeyer
02:07.00pra5ad=)
02:07.04pra5adbreathe*
02:08.56tegtmeye;)
02:12.38``ErikO.o
02:14.06``Erikwhen I looked at stl, sgi was the only implementation worth noting o.O
02:15.01brlcadalthough these days their implementation is crippled with a few critical bugs that they have no intention of ever fixing (at least for mips)
02:16.28tegtmeyenah... gcc's is pretty good these days
02:17.04brlcadactually probably the best now that comes to mind
02:18.57tegtmeyemetrowerks and stlport also have complete ones, as far as I know, but
02:19.25tegtmeyeyoud have to really look hard to find the advantages of one over the other...
02:19.48tegtmeyeharder than I feel like looking anyway
02:35.17tegtmeyeanyone remember off the top of their head what the *name" of the stdin fd is? (I know it is 0)...
02:35.43tegtmeyeI thought that there was a stdin_fd macro assigned to it in posix...
02:35.54tegtmeyeor somethng like that...
02:36.01brlcadeh, isn't it just 'stdin'
02:36.12tegtmeyeI thought that was a FILE*
02:36.26brlcadhmm
02:37.02brlcadso it is
02:38.42brlcadSTDIN_FILENO
02:38.50brlcadis in unistd.h
02:39.03brlcadseems reasonable
02:39.15tegtmeyeah... thanks, I couldn;t find it...
02:39.35tegtmeyeyour googling is faster than mine...
02:41.46tegtmeyewell your grey matter is denser than mine then ;)
02:47.52tegtmeyesweet! now if you can just point me in the right direction with that whole IN_MEM thing, I could test it out...
02:47.56tegtmeyejk
02:48.12brlcadi've been mentally preparing
02:52.16brlcadonly half joking, would like a tool slightly useful.. current idea is to implement a tool similar to ttcp for the geometry utilizing libpkg (net transfer) and librt (.g management)
02:52.39brlcadunless you can think of something better
02:52.58brlcadyou'd then be able to rip out libpkg for mpi or just follow example
02:55.53tegtmeyewhatever is easiest for you, networking stuff is pretty easy, it would be nice to not have to have a dependency on libpkg though...
02:58.44tegtmeyeName: ttcp
02:58.45tegtmeyeVersion: 1.10
02:58.45tegtmeyeCategory:net
02:58.45tegtmeyeMaintainers:fenner  research.att.com
02:58.45tegtmeyeDescription:Benchmarking tool for analysing TCP and UDP performance
02:58.48tegtmeyeLong Description: TTCP is a benchmarking tool for determining TCP and UDP performance between 2 systems. The program was created at the US Army Ballistics Research Lab (BRL) and is in the public domain. Feel free to distribute this program but please do leave the credit notices in the source and man page intact.
02:59.10tegtmeyeHad to look that one up.
02:59.25tegtmeyeKinda cool it was made by us.
02:59.42brlcadmuuss wrote it around the time of ping
03:00.00tegtmeyecool
03:01.02brlcadit's even standardized into one of the networking specs, rfc something
03:01.14brlcadalways been included in brl-cad too
03:01.18tegtmeyeyea, jsut saw that
03:02.02brlcadworks great for raw network testing or even for transferring files
03:02.02pra5adyo someone pls tell wendy/john that i will be 'officially' late tomorrow
03:02.07pra5adty =)
03:04.07pra5adi need to buy a pair of crutches
03:04.18tegtmeyeeh?
03:04.47tegtmeyetyping with your toes again?
03:07.55pra5adask my fitness instructor
03:08.46brlcaddidn't do legs yesterday
03:09.16brlcadunless you hammies are all sore from the back extensions :)
03:11.25tegtmeyelater guys
03:32.44``Erikheh
04:11.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: protect against division by negative numbers and returning a negative variance, fixes benchmark output complaining about trying to take a square root of a negative number
04:15.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
04:15.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: the variance computations in the benchmark suite weren't correctly
04:15.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: checking for a negative average error causing a negative variance
04:15.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: causing a computation of a sqrt against that negative causing the
04:15.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: suite to catch and output the error as:
04:15.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: ERROR: square root of negative numbers is only in your imagination
04:15.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: awk: division by zero
05:33.38*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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14:56.00*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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18:13.03cad082brlcad
18:13.13clock_hi
18:13.15brlcadmoo
18:13.25cad082where are u
18:13.59cad082u bailed on gym :\
18:14.09brlcadah, you
18:14.10clock_brlcad: do you ride surfboard?
18:14.24brlcadclock_: yes, though only a few times
18:14.33clock_brlcad: and skateboard?
18:14.38clock_brlcad: wow, that's cool and l33t :)
18:14.41brlcadcad082: you're un-named if you don't provide a callsign :P
18:14.44clock_and wicked ;-)
18:15.06clock_brlcad: where are you actually from?
18:15.14sean_morrisonso
18:15.17brlcadcad082: and I'm not guaranteed to be in the rest of the week (though I'll undoubtedly arrive at some point to submit some papers)
18:15.26*** kick/#brlcad [sean_morrison!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (brlcad)
18:15.26clock_sean_morrison: and you? are you a surfer?
18:15.41brlcadhe's just someone trying to cause trouble
18:16.01*** join/#brlcad pra5ad2 (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:16.06pra5ad2wtf
18:16.09pra5ad2no <3
18:16.18pra5ad2so yea
18:16.23brlcadyou felt the love :)
18:16.35brlcadhow are the wings?
18:16.35pra5ad2u at home or what
18:16.40brlcadyep
18:16.46pra5ad2wuss
18:16.46clock_what love? is anyone gay here?
18:16.53brlcadheh clock_
18:17.08clock_<PROTECTED>
18:17.13brlcadclock_: i tried skateboarding in my younger years, wasn't too successful
18:17.24brlcadclock_: no, but I've visited several times
18:17.26clock_brlcad: cool! leet! wicked!
18:17.37clock_brlcad: and have you seen dogtown and z-boys?
18:18.23brlcadthat doesn't ring a bell
18:18.23pra5ad2i'd be surprised
18:18.23clock_brlcad: yes I am posessed by the evil daemon of Jay Adams HA HA HA HA HAAA!
18:18.23pra5ad2har har
18:19.01brlcadthe skateboarder?
18:19.07clock_brlcad: yes
18:19.17pra5ad2R j00 4 l33t h4X0R 700 ?
18:19.24clock_brlcad: and have you been to the dogtown?
18:19.39brlcaddoesn't ring a bell
18:20.02pra5ad2u in tomorrow?
18:20.08brlcadso pra5ad2, how are the wings holding up?
18:20.13clock_brlcad: free software developer and is a skater *and* surfer!
18:20.18pra5ad2wings? what wings
18:20.28brlcadlats
18:20.31pra5ad2oh
18:20.41clock_brlcad: are you going to gym?
18:20.46pra5ad2its not bad
18:20.52pra5ad2im limping tho
18:20.56brlcadpra5ad2: not yet at least :)
18:20.58pra5ad2calves are shot
18:21.28brlcadi somehow bet you will be sore bad, you seem to be 24-48 hour pain
18:21.33brlcadclock_: yes
18:22.15pra5ad2so says the guy who stayed home today
18:22.35pra5ad2.g to ?
18:23.46brlcadtransferring the .g over the net keeping it in-memory only
18:23.48pra5ad2interesting
18:23.48brlcadheh, split
18:24.10pra5ad2who's mr. clock_ ?
18:24.11brlcadsomeone else apparently
18:24.31archivistperhaps he's at the xmas spirit
18:24.51brlcador drunk and lost 10 years age
18:25.42pra5ad2so u in tomorrow or what
18:26.03brlcadpra5ad2: example use that both tegt and I have in mind.. send the .g file to some remote processing unit for distributed work
18:26.34brlcade.g. an mpi raytracer or .. an mpi lethality server, etc
18:26.42pra5ad2ya
18:26.52brlcadpretty simple
18:27.09brlcadbut the only example code that does this right now is the remote raytracer remrt
18:27.16brlcadwhich includes a ton of other logic
18:27.42brlcadload balancing, throttling, failure recovery, etc
18:27.56*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@81.221.122.143) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
18:28.14brlcadthe prodigal clock_ winds his way back
18:28.33clock_brlcad: how old are you actually?
18:28.33clock_brlcad: prodigal?
18:28.54brlcadold enough
18:29.15brlcadyoung at heart fortunately ;)
18:29.21clock_brlcad: 46?
18:29.31pra5ad242
18:29.36archivist97
18:29.46brlcadthe answer to everything
18:29.51pra5ad21337
18:30.03brlcadwe actually have a bz dev in his late 80s
18:30.10clock_what's bz dev?
18:30.12brlcadone of the best
18:30.16brlcadbzflag
18:30.19pra5ad2bobs?
18:30.21brlcadanother project I dev on
18:30.22pra5ad2oh
18:30.22clock_bzflag?
18:30.33pra5ad2im out, lata
18:30.34clock_late 80's = early -10's ;-)
18:31.05brlcadclock_: it's a game
18:31.22clock_brlcad: but how old are you, seriously?
18:31.25brlcadfairly popular for open source
18:31.34brlcadseriously, i'm not going to tell you ;)
18:31.38clock_rings a bell a bit
18:31.54brlcadunless we meet in person
18:32.00clock_brlcad: OK
18:32.06brlcadcome to siggraph, i'm usually there ;)
18:33.42clock_brlcad: why not? security measure?
18:34.08brlcadwell several reasons
18:34.20brlcadit's not relevant to getting any work done here
18:34.50brlcadsecurity is always an issue
18:35.05brlcadeverything is logged and publicly archived
18:35.26clock_what server is this?
18:35.35brlcadserver?
18:35.38clock_yes
18:35.44brlcadthis is the freenode network
18:35.50clock_aha
18:36.02brlcadwho are you and what have you done with clock_
18:36.22clock_and what if someone knew how old you are and where you live?
18:37.14brlcadi'm not going to say why that is or isn't something undesireable here
18:38.03brlcadagain, regardless it's not in the least bit relevant here
18:38.33clock_brlcad: where do you stand on the surfboard?
18:38.40brlcadheh
18:38.42clock_in the middle? in the back?
18:38.57brlcadwhatever keeps me upright :)
18:39.25brlcadusually in the middle or towards the front
18:39.26clock_brlcad: why does the board turn when you lean to the side? Because the leaned to side gets more drag?
18:40.09brlcadnot really, you're cutting into the water with that edge
18:40.39clock_brlcad: but why cutting into the water makes the board turn?
18:40.55clock_I understand it with my skateboard - there are trucks that turn - but not with surfboard
18:41.03brlcadthe board isn't perfectly flat
18:41.20clock_are you talking about the bottom or the top?
18:41.28brlcadthe whole thing
18:41.35clock_is it bent?
18:41.49brlcadlay it on the ground, you'll see it curves
18:41.53clock_like the middle lower and the ends higher?
18:42.02brlcadright
18:42.03clock_how much?
18:42.08brlcadheh
18:42.10clock_do you have a .g model of a surfboard? *G*
18:42.13brlcaddepends on the board
18:42.29brlcadno, but you could make one pretty quickly
18:42.43clock_brlcad: more bent -> you can cut sharper curves?
18:43.24brlcadit's like the turning radius of a car, big boards have a slow curve, harder to turn generally
18:43.37brlcadsmaller boards curve small, so they're more agile
18:44.08brlcadcan't curve too much or it'd mess with riding the wave I'd imagine
18:44.57clock_have you surfed in santa monica?
18:45.07clock_have you been there between 1970 and 1975?
18:45.44brlcadclose to santa monica, further south -- i only started surfing a couple years ago
18:46.43clock_and have you been to santa monica between 1970 and 1975?
18:47.20brlcadwhy?
18:47.44clock_if you saw the pacific ocean park debris
18:47.48``ErikO.o
18:47.57clock_and the rundown neighbourhood around
18:48.08clock_``Erik: what do you mean with this?
18:48.18``ErikI mean O.o
18:48.20``Erikopposed to o.O
18:48.21``Erik:)
18:48.22brlcad:)
18:48.26clock_what does this smilie mean?
18:48.37brlcadwhat do all your questions mean?
18:48.39``Erikit's either a cocked eyebrow, or a 'bill the cat' look
18:48.58clock_brlcad: nothing. what do you expect they would mean?
18:49.09brlcador that his jewels are hanging out of balance today
18:49.29clock_That I want to stalk you with a sniper gun and the only thing that I miss to find out where you are is to know if you have been to SM between 1970 and 1975?
18:49.49brlcadahh, well if that's all
18:50.19clock_brlcad: I'm just curious
18:51.21``Erikuh oh, I lost my spoon
18:51.34brlcadsporks!
18:52.03brlcad~sporks
18:52.15brlcadhmm
18:52.16brlcad~spork
18:52.18ibot[spork] an amazing utensil, because it's totally useless as a fork, and totally useless as a spoon, yet everyone has used one before
18:52.23clock_brlcad: answer, answer, worse questions will follow ;-)
18:52.55``Erik"mah spoon is too big!" bitter films - rejected
18:54.28clock_brlcad: OK ask me anything from Ronja design
18:54.35brlcadheh
18:54.55clock_how should I prove my identity?
18:55.03clock_send you an e-mail from faked clock@twibright.com address?
18:55.04brlcadbtw I presented a brief overview of ronja to some other cad folk
18:55.08brlcadthey liked
18:55.18clock_because a lot of nuts and bolts? :D
18:56.15brlcadjust the entire concept of the project, and the detail provided
18:56.30brlcadnot to mention the usage of brl-cad too
18:56.50brlcadstil going though the reported issues
18:57.18clock_brlcad: I *am* riding a skateboard: http://images.twibright.com/tns/1c0e.html
18:57.35clock_http://images.twibright.com/images/ronja/promotion/wsfii_london/dscn1582.jpg
18:57.58brlcadnice shot
18:58.02clock_and look at the bottom news image on the left side: http://ronja.twibright.com/
18:58.29clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/ronja_offspring.php
18:58.57brlcadahh, you changed the site..
18:59.09brlcadi like the new layout
19:00.01clock_brlcad: YES I AM THE EVIL DAEMON OF JAY ADDAMS AND I HACKED THIS KOOK'S SITE AND NOW I AM GONNA BEAT THE SHIT OF INFORMATION OUT OF YOU AND THEN STALK YOU AND TRACE YOU AND KILL YOU THE SAME WAY I KILLED THE FUCKING FAGGOT WHICH THEN GOT ME INTO JAIL *MUHAHAHAHAHA*
19:01.24brlcadi don't mind the killing and stalking, but do you have to trace?
19:04.19clock_brlcad: thanks for liking the new layout
19:05.11clock_brlcad: no I'm just joking. I'm not really pozessed, nor anyhow Jay Adams figures here.
19:05.55clock_brlcad: actually was you 1970-1975 in Santa Monica>?
19:06.57brlcadheh
19:07.28brlcadi don't think i was
19:07.34clock_brlcad: actually can someone get into legal trouble when he uses "kill you" and "stalk you" in an obvious joke in IRC?
19:07.35brlcadbut my memory is foggy
19:07.47brlcadheh, sure can :)
19:07.51clock_omg!
19:08.09clock_brlcad: how?
19:08.13brlcadespecially since irony and intent don't come across
19:08.26clock_what does the last sentence mean?
19:09.06brlcadwhether you are joking or not doesn't exactly always get conveyed when just writing text
19:09.18clock_brlcad: I was definitely joking
19:09.20brlcadno matter how much you're laughing in your chair or how many smilies you use
19:09.25brlcad;)
19:09.32clock_brlcad: hereby I assure you that I was only joking :)
19:12.12brlcadheh
19:12.17brlcadgood to know
19:12.31brlcadclock_ has a sense of humor, albeit somewhat twisted :)
19:12.48clock_brlcad: albeit a bit black ;-)
19:12.58brlcadthat too
19:13.18clock_Let's call it "black humour in the style of Goedel Escher Bach: The golden Brain"
19:13.21clock_Brain -> Braid
19:13.22brlcadi'm sure there's probably another joke in there about twisted black bits, but I'm not going to touch it
19:13.42clock_twister black bits?
19:13.47clock_twisted
19:13.55brlcadnever mind :)
19:13.56clock_I didn't joke about Pacific Ocean Park
19:14.11brlcadi didn't either, don't know what you're talking about :)
19:14.20clock_brlcad: and I also assure you that I wasn't, am not, and don't plan to be posessed by any daemon.
19:14.26clock_brlcad: that was just a joke, too.
19:14.59clock_brlcad: or do you mean the fact that Jay Addams killed a gay man?
19:15.19clock_brlcad: are you gay?
19:15.29brlcadi didn't know that he did that
19:15.35clock_brlcad: he did.
19:15.50brlcadalas i'm a happy fellow, but not gay nor homophobic
19:16.19clock_brlcad: I am asking because I am gay, not because I want to pry out sensitive information from you ;-)
19:16.41clock_Nor in the connection with the fact that Jay Adams killed a gay man.
19:16.46brlcadi figured
19:17.00clock_from what?
19:17.03clock_e-mail headers?
19:17.13clock_brlcad: are you goofy or regular?
19:17.27brlcadi have no idea what that means
19:17.59clock_brlcad: do you ride with your right foot in front or with left?
19:18.06brlcadheh
19:18.23brlcadi'm a starboard when rowing crew
19:18.40clock_what does it mean?
19:18.49brlcadexactly what i'm wondering :)
19:19.19clock_this is really horrible conversation ;-)
19:19.25brlcad:)
19:24.37clock_brlcad: with a bayesian classifier someone could probably find out how old you are from the text you write
19:24.55clock_but since you are not gay, it doesn't make sense for me to be interested ;-)
19:25.16clock_brlcad: how old do you guess I am?
19:26.26brlcadif those pictures are of you, early/mid 20s
19:27.06brlcadage is a state of mind
19:27.37clock_brlcad: hehe thanks, I'm 26
19:27.41brlcadclock_: you can be interested, I just won't exactly reciprocate in the same manner :)
19:28.00clock_brlcad: no I am not interested in anyone who's not gay
19:28.51brlcadmine's a logarithm i think
19:30.42``Erikmine stays at 2 :(
19:32.36clock_brlcad: so are you like 64?
19:32.55brlcadheh, not even close
19:32.56``Erik*snort*
19:33.02clock_32
19:33.09``Erikmore like 14 o.O *duck*
19:33.21brlcadwe're back to this whole age guessing personal info topic ;)
19:33.44brlcad``Erik: I wish, with what i know now..
19:33.49``Erikdon't we all?
19:34.06clock_brlcad: to be how much? 6? 12? 15? 18? 20?
19:34.20brlcadany of those will do quite nicely
19:34.31``ErikI'd even be happy being 26 again, heh
19:34.56``Erikheh
19:35.00``Erikyou should work on the other project
19:35.11``Erikwe get to spend our entire day waiting for compile and test cycles
19:35.14``Erikno coding involved
19:35.38brlcadheh
19:35.44clock_Decline in sexual activity can be observed in men starting with 90
19:35.45``Erikproductivity ain't our style, yo
19:36.00``Eriks/90/marraige/ ?
19:36.01brlcadthere's a good slogan
19:36.45brlcadwith the yo of course
19:36.51``Erikheh
19:37.26clock_ok I'm leaving for now
19:37.30clock_have a nice time here
19:37.45``ErikI spent friday evening arguing with john infront of wendy about the future of the project, mondy morning arguing to the team, then standing there with john to explain it to dixie... I've pissed enough people off for a few days :)
19:38.25``Erikthat boy is fucked up in the head o.O
19:41.15brlcadheh, and like you're not
19:46.11``Eriktrue
20:30.22*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
20:33.54pierHi everyone in the list
20:34.51brlcadhowdy pier
20:35.21pierhi brlcad
20:36.08pierI have been messing around with brlcad for about a month now
20:36.23brlcadexcellent
20:36.31pierand I think that it is really nice
20:36.42pierthough I am not an expert
20:36.44brlcadglad you think so
20:36.54brlcadthe experts I know think so too
20:37.08brlcadthough there's always/definitely lots of places it can be improved
20:37.11brlcadand will be
20:37.21brlcadall just a matter of time and priorities ;)
20:37.30piernow I am trying to export a printout of my masterpieces :)
20:37.48brlcadahh, yes
20:38.07brlcadyou have several means to capture printouts
20:38.17pierand I am getting mad with the ps output
20:38.18brlcadconversion of the wireframe to postscript/lot
20:38.21brlcads/lot/plot/
20:38.26brlcadheh, okay
20:38.37brlcadyou also tried rtedge and/or rtwizard?
20:38.43*** join/#brlcad pra5ad2 (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:38.46pra5ad2brlcad
20:38.49pierno, not yet
20:39.06pierbut now I am fighting with fonts in ps files
20:39.13pra5ad2how do you override the compiler in configure.ac?
20:39.15brlcadif you have something open in mged already, you can type: rtedge -F/dev/Xl
20:39.29pierok
20:39.30brlcadpra5ad2: ./configure CC=whatever
20:39.42pra5ad2can't u add an entry in configure.ac?
20:39.54brlcadyou can, you're not supposed to
20:40.08pra5ad2ok
20:40.24brlcadyou can test if it's not set and if it's not, change the default
20:40.36brlcadby just setting CC
20:41.09pierwow
20:41.46piergot the hidden lines removed!!
20:41.57pierfeel pretty dumb
20:41.59brlcadheh
20:42.12brlcadno need for that, how would you have known ;)
20:42.39pierperhaps readin again the TOMES :)
20:42.56brlcadthere are probably a lot more things like that you don't know about
20:42.59brlcad:)
20:43.10pierYou bet
20:43.41pierI'll perform a test
20:44.29pierI forgot the command (damn..)
20:44.37brlcadtest of what?
20:45.02pierI am courious to see if I still have problems with fonts
20:45.46pierI am never able to view (gv) the output ps file on account of references to fonts
20:46.14pierunless I manually remove any reference to fnt in the ps file
20:46.21brlcadhow are you generating the ps file?
20:46.36brlcadthere shouldn't be font references
20:47.20pierwith the menu command  File -> renderview -> postscript
20:47.46brlcadhrmm
20:47.58piernow I don't know how to generate the ps file of the n.1 fb window
20:48.20pierthe one I generated with the command you suggested
20:48.35brlcadrtedge doesn't generate postscript, it generates images
20:48.43pieryes
20:49.01brlcadyou can extract that image as a postscript image, but usually better to just keep it as an image (e.g. a png or somesuch)
20:49.22pierbut how one can export the image as ps
20:49.41brlcadthat window is just a lingering framebuffer window when you use -F/dev/Xl  (a lingering 24bit X11 interface)
20:49.59pierI need it to print the views and put dimensions on them
20:50.24brlcadyou can render directly to file with the -o option to rtedge  rtedge -o somefile.pix
20:50.40brlcaduse -s for the image size (e.g. -s 1024 for 1024x1024)
20:51.13pierok but I need a format that I can put my hands on
20:51.23brlcadyou can convert a pix file with the pix-ps command
20:51.31brlcadpng with the pix-png command
20:51.46pierah
20:51.49brlcadpix-[tab][tab] to get a list of the various formats you can export to
20:51.53brlcad(in bash)
20:52.19brlcador pix[tab][tab] for all the pix tools
20:52.21pierbut is the ps file got from a pix accurate enough?
20:52.40brlcadonly as accurate as the pix
20:53.00pierthis is the problem
20:53.08brlcadif you want to actually print something at 600dpi, that's going to be a pretty big image
20:53.33pierMay I explain the way I proceed now?
20:53.38brlcadsure
20:54.18pierImagine I have produced a ps file from the menu command
20:54.56pierI open it and remove all the damned references to fonts
20:55.20brlcadk
20:55.35pierthen I convert it to dxf 2d view which I can scale and put the correct dimension on
20:56.00pierpstoedit -f dxf fresa_t.ps fresa_t.dxf
20:56.10pierfor example
20:56.33brlcadinteresting, okay
20:56.50pierIs that a hawkward way to proceed?
20:57.15brlcadpstoedit is complaining about the font?
20:57.21pieryes
20:57.38piernot only pstoedit but any viewer I use
20:57.40brlcadyou tried different font settings on the postscript panel?
20:58.03brlcadfourth line lets you select the font, default is Courier iirc
20:58.12pierghostview and internal kde kpsview
20:58.19pieryes
20:58.22brlcadi mean in mged
20:58.29pierI did that too :(
20:58.48pierI don't understand
21:00.09brlcadhmm and they all give you font warnings/errors?
21:00.09pierSean, is it possible to produce the view in F 1 as a ps file?
21:00.14pieryes
21:01.47pierI mean what command the menu file call when the ps file of the graphic mged window is produced?
21:07.30brlcadthe menu item ends up calling init_psTool
21:09.43pierok
21:10.14brlcadbut not meant to be called directly
21:10.26brlcadthat ends up calling do_ps
21:10.32pierok
21:11.03pieris that a shell command in /brlcad/bin?
21:11.35brlcadno, it's an mged command, it's talking directly to mged's display manager
21:12.51brlcadonly mged talks to the display manager
21:12.58pierit'a a build in compiled function
21:12.59brlcadthe other tools talk to framebuffers
21:13.08brlcadit's not compiled, it's tclscripting
21:13.15pierok
21:13.27brlcadlives in share/brlcad/version/tclscripts directory
21:13.59pierweird that fb created with rtedge becomes [defunct] after a while
21:14.09pieryet it is visible
21:15.09pieris it possible to get rtedge plot on the mged graphic display?
21:15.15brlcadit's set to be unresponsive, just waiting for closure
21:15.32brlcadyeah, you can render to the framebuffer in mged
21:15.33pierI see
21:15.33*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
21:16.13pierhow? [if I am pestering you just tell...]
21:17.15brlcadfirst make sure the framebuffer is turned on
21:17.23pierok
21:17.25brlcadSettings->Framebuffer, make sure the last two options are on
21:17.47pierthey are
21:17.55brlcadthen you should be able to run: rtedge -F0
21:18.07pierso 0 is the number
21:18.24brlcadit's technically a port number
21:18.38brlcad0 being the first, if 0 was in use, it'd use 1
21:18.41brlcadetc
21:19.11pieryep. Thanks
21:20.30brlcadyou can start your own framebuffer server with the fbserv command
21:20.56pierof course the menu command  File -> renderview -> postscript will output the wireframe with visible hidden lines all the same
21:21.14pieryes  I learnt how to do that
21:21.38pierIt was learner a week ago to tell me
21:24.42piermay I send the error message I get about font?
21:25.14brlcadyep, the postscript does a dump of what you're seeing in the mged display
21:25.20brlcadsure please do
21:25.24pierok
21:25.26pierError: /invalidfont in findfont
21:25.31pierOperand stack:
21:25.37pierFntH   Courier   Font   Courier   183935   Courier   --nostringval--   Courier   NimbusMonL-Regu
21:25.37pierExecution stack:
21:25.46piercution stack:
21:25.47pier<PROTECTED>
21:25.47pier--nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   false   1   %stopped_push   6   4   %oparray_pop   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   1   -1   1   --nostringval--   %for_neg_int_continue
21:25.47pierDictionary stack:
21:25.49pier<PROTECTED>
21:25.52pierCurrent allocation mode is local
21:25.55pierLast OS error: 2
21:25.56pierCurrent file position is 249
21:25.58pierESP Ghostscript 815.01: Unrecoverable error, exit code 1
21:26.00piertaht's greek to me
21:26.22piernow I revone the following lines
21:26.26pierremove
21:26.45brlcadhmm
21:27.13piert
21:27.22pra5ad2exit
21:27.22pra5ad2xit
21:27.26pra5ad2er
21:27.27brlcadit's not understanding the FntH findfont directive
21:27.35pier"/FntH /Courier findfont 80 scalefont def"
21:27.39pieretc
21:27.50brlcadyeah
21:27.55pier"/DFntL { /FntL /Courier findfont 73.4 scalefont def } def"
21:28.09brlcadmaybe a complaince issue with 1.0
21:28.17pier?
21:28.24piersorry
21:30.18piernow the image is visible but not printable......
21:30.40pierI ps2pdf it and finally it is printable
21:30.51pierspooky
21:31.38brlcadps2pdf gives the font error too?
21:33.17pierno unless I remove the obovementioned lines
21:35.29pierI get errors with dxf  files got with g-dxf too [Autocad doesn't open the files and complain]
21:37.18pierI had a look at the g-dxf source to have an idea on how it works and write a g-dxf-modified command apt to produce 2d views
21:38.26brlcadthe dxf converter isn't trivial but it should be fully compliant with their spec
21:39.13pierof the object but I must admit it's beyond me
21:39.41pierI'll have a look at it to pinpoint the error message
21:40.16brlcadplease report it http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640802
21:40.58pierok, I'll do it.
21:41.17brlcadif you can provide the .g, that would be even better
21:41.54pierwho am I supposed to provide the file to?
21:42.20pierto the address above?
21:42.27brlcadyeah
21:42.33brlcadas part of the bug report
21:42.33pierOK
21:42.36brlcadyou can attach files
21:42.57pierexplaining all the ps and dxf stuff?
21:42.57brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640802
21:43.09brlcadone report per problem :)
21:43.17pierok :)
21:43.24brlcadi'm looking into the ps one now
21:44.48piertried to google for ps lexicon but no luck
21:45.53pierIn any case I did a bit of a progress today too
21:46.28pierI got my first dxf view I can work on with dimentions and that makes me happy
21:47.00pierI can call it a day now
21:47.12piertime to go to bed
21:47.18brlcaddo you have the Courier font?
21:47.27brlcadsize 80
21:47.36pierwait....
21:47.58brlcadwondering if the error is real and we're just outputting a size yours wont make for some reason
21:48.43piercourier 4.5
21:48.55pieris set in the window
21:49.02piertext box
21:49.12brlcadi mean if you have courier installed as a system font
21:49.30pier... how could I work it out?
21:49.58piernow I don't remember
21:50.02brlcadlocate cour | grep font
21:50.20brlcador maybe "locate Courier"
21:50.35pierflooded  ... wait...
21:50.43brlcadthen you do have it
21:50.55brlcadokay, i'll keep looking into it
21:50.57pierqiute a few
21:51.01brlcadthanks for the report
21:51.08brlcadi'm guessing it's size related right now
21:51.17brlcadi'll see if I can reproduce it here
21:51.21brlcadwhat OS are you on?
21:51.57pierLinux Slack 10.2 Ker 2.4.31
21:52.14brlcadah, k
21:52.21piercourier size available 75 and 100 dpi
21:52.32brlcaddon't have a slackware to test on, but i should be able to pin down another linux close enough
21:53.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: /FntH /Courier findfont 80 scalefont def is giving errors in ghostview tools: Error: /invalidfont in findfont
21:54.09piertried with courier 75 but no dice
21:57.16pierThanks a lot for the support and patience. Bye
21:57.34brlcadthank you!
21:57.41brlcadfor the same
21:57.49brlcadhopefully we can get those bugs fixed
21:58.15pierno doubt! :) nite!
21:58.58*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051222

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051222

01:40.53pra5adyay! text renderer works
01:41.09*** join/#brlcad maccam912 (n=470a7f52@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:41.19maccam912is anybody here? I have a question
01:41.44maccam912I will ask anyway
01:42.05maccam912I am running Windows XP and have finally figured out how to compile it and install with CYGWIN
01:42.15maccam912I am trying to start mged
01:42.43maccam912and when I click on it it said that it was looking for some .dll's so I copy pasted them from cygwin install folder
01:43.12maccam912they were all of the ones I was looking for, so I copy pasted them all from cygwin to the mged directory
01:44.11maccam912then when I click on it it says 'Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...' so I wait, then it  closes without me doing anyting after a couple of seconds
01:44.34maccam912I installed it on linux, but It doesn't even open up on there
01:44.56maccam912it is 7.6.6 if that matters
01:45.04maccam912waiting for a reply...
01:53.33*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:55.03maccam912hey
01:55.10maccam912tegtmeye
01:55.34maccam912are you there tegtmeye
01:57.16maccam912ok, i have mged open, but when I try to do something
01:57.46maccam912it says "no database has been opened
01:57.49maccam912"
02:05.06``Erikheh
02:08.51pra5adwhat was the issue with a close-to-0 zNear plane?
02:11.39``ErikZ buffer is logarithmically scaled against the znear, so as you make the znear smaller, you lose z precision further out
02:11.45``Erikthen you get overlap artifacts
02:12.24``Erikhttp://sjbaker.org/steve/omniv/love_your_z_buffer.html  <-- steve baker wrote a bit on it
02:18.16pra5adso whats the work around
02:18.41``Erikyou should probably read everything at http://sjbaker.org/steve/omniv/index.html , just think some and don't blindly believe everything he says... he knows his shit, but I disagree with him on a couple minor points :)
02:18.49``Erikthe workaround is to put the z as far away as possible
02:19.19``Erikanother workaround is to do multipass... draw everything with a znear of 1, then draw everything close (again) with a znear of .1 and a zfar of 1, or something
02:31.22pra5adthese articles seem .. old
02:33.18``Eriksome of 'em are a bit old, but little has changed, I think
02:41.17pra5adxenogears time
02:42.52``Erikhttp://sjbaker.org/humor/mkI_telephone.html *giggle*
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06:17.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
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06:24.56CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
06:24.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: updates for the next two release iterations. for next release: start of windows
06:24.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: merging, mingw build, clone, tracker, geometry examples. for release after,
06:24.57CIA-6BRL-CAD: run-time path identification completion, autogen.sh, sf.net tracker scripts.
06:26.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: write .g in-memory transfer example (tegt needs)
06:32.37CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (main.c opt.c): use 0.0 as the 'default' aspect ratio to represent unset. catch a negative aspect ratio as an error. a 'default'/unset aspect ratio will get adjusted to be the image dimensions ratio.
06:36.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
06:36.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: raytracers use image size for default aspect ratio now instead of just 1.0 so
06:36.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: that model space aspect is maintained and preferred over the image space aspect.
06:36.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: stops making the dang squished pics when you specify -n/-w options to any of the
06:36.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: raytracers
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06:48.44CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: use environ for run-time path tracing lookups
06:53.14CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: investigate performance impact of using sched_setaffinity and/or pthread_attr_setaffinity_np for linux threading affinity in librt
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16:35.57clock_hi
16:43.18brlcadhey :)
16:47.38clock_I found out that free software project structure is identical to a structure of a gang
16:47.47clock_With the only exception, and that is evil polarity
16:48.14clock_fits really excellent
16:48.50clock_Actually not only free sw, but also User Controlled Technology
16:53.35brlcadsounds about right
16:54.04brlcadalso known as and managed as a meritocracy in most cases
16:54.31brlcadwhere merit is the driving force of who's in charge, who gets overthrown (stabbed, forked, whatever)
16:54.44brlcadand the hierarchy of developers and contributors
16:59.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/shoot.c: only test the debug flags extensively if something in run-time debug is enabled
17:00.27clock_merit driving force? Can you explain?
17:02.22brlcad~dict merit
17:02.55brlcadyou have a value as determined by your peers, others involved with the project
17:03.07clock_OK now I almost understand
17:03.08brlcadthe more and better work you do, the more merit you have
17:03.23brlcadthose with high merit are in charge
17:03.57brlcadhaving history with a package or starting a package gets you high merit, which usually explains why original devs tend to stay in charge
17:04.21brlcadbut they can be overthrown or replaced if others do more and work harder/better
17:05.14brlcadsimple example, you already have more merit than an average person who enters the channel and asks for help
17:05.46brlcadsimply because you're already an existing user who has used the package, has expressed an interest, has contributed to the project, etc
17:07.30brlcadit's not an artificially imposed structure like you working for a boss at work who might be an idiot.  you are valued by your partipation, insight, contributions, etc
17:09.09brlcadin most open source projects, you become a developer not by applying for the job/role of developer -- you become a developer by earning the respect of the other existing developers through useful contributions
17:09.26clock_that's what fascinates
17:09.27clock_me
17:10.19clock_skater also doesn't apply for a skater job, but has to skate and the better he skates, the bigger respect the others have.
17:10.41brlcadyep
17:11.08clock_do you have gangs in the US?
17:11.21brlcadand if/when he becomes good enough or better than others, people start listening, paying attention, respecting his wants and options
17:11.24clock_or where you live?
17:11.24brlcadheh, of course
17:11.38clock_are they persistent and difficult to eradicate?
17:11.39brlcadthere are gangs everywhere
17:12.01brlcadmostly inner-city in the big cities
17:12.27brlcadyoung kids usually
17:12.38clock_almost invariably doing crime, right?
17:12.40clock_how young?
17:12.57brlcadmostly teenagers
17:13.07brlcadsome are crime gangs, some aren't
17:13.23clock_who do those noncrime gangs do?
17:13.33clock_teenager=13 to 19 right?
17:13.43brlcadyeah, pretty much
17:13.44clock_were z-boys gang as well?
17:13.56brlcadi'm sure there are others outside that age range
17:14.14clock_toddlers with machine guns ;-)
17:15.00clock_have you ever been in any gang?
17:15.01brlcadz-boys was a team
17:15.04brlcadthey competed
17:15.20clock_against other teams right?
17:15.21brlcadbut probably a fine line as to whether they behaved as a gang too
17:15.25brlcad~dict gang
17:16.17brlcadlots of definitions (2 of 8)
17:16.25brlcadmerriam-webster's is better:
17:16.27brlcad(1) : a group of persons working together (2) : a group of persons working to unlawful or antisocial ends; especially : a band of antisocial adolescents
17:16.57brlcad2: a group of persons having informal and usually close social relations
17:17.07clock_how can be adolescents antisocial?
17:17.27brlcadso doesn't have to be illegal, just have to have be a close group of people
17:18.04brlcadjust frequently do engage in illegal activity sometimes
17:18.04brlcaddepends on the people
17:18.25clock_and otherwise drink and smoke weed
17:18.33clock_or what can "classical" gang do?
17:18.43brlcadi would hope the don't drink week
17:18.45clock_chase girls
17:18.46brlcad*weed
17:19.22brlcadmost adolescents chase mates :)
18:40.49CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: make sure pixmap is null before wiping it out. instead of setting all the elements to zero, save cpu cycles and just request a bu_calloc...
18:56.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: (log message trimmed)
18:56.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: rewrite do_pixel() for a 30% performance enhancement on an model-less scene.
18:56.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: this results in a savings of 5-30% time depending on model complexity/size. the
18:56.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: performance is gained by removing some rediculous memory copying into
18:56.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: temporaries and optimizing away several divisions and modulos. the main loop is
18:56.36CIA-6BRL-CAD: also unrolled one iteration since the default case does not involve
18:56.38CIA-6BRL-CAD: hypersampling. also rework the logic on testing whether a pixmap (previous
19:04.44MaloeranHave we met last friday, Sean? I didn't catch the name of everybody ( Alexis at Survice's place )
19:05.16brlcadNo, I couldn't make it over to SURVICE
19:05.48MaloeranAh, right
19:06.02brlcadheard that you were there though
19:06.57*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
19:07.17brlcadciao pier
19:09.35piersalve
19:09.52pierhow are you?
19:16.25brlcadgoing good
19:24.27pierI post a request this moning
19:24.30pierhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1387937&group_id=105292&atid=640805
19:25.08pierof course I am trying to get some result before asking for help
19:25.24pierreading the source code
19:26.02brlcadpier: yes, I read that
19:28.25pierbut I think I'll have to dig first in the header files to get an idea on how the various functions called in g-dxf code work
19:29.03piernot easy but I'll have a go before giving up
19:32.15brlcadit's not going to be trivial using g-dxf since it specifically generates 3D dxf files
19:34.29brlcadif it's just a hidden line drawing you're looking for, it would probably be easier to modify rtedge to output splines
19:35.26brlcadif it's a hidden line _image_ you're looking for, that's specifically what rtedge generates
19:35.49piernot really
19:35.51brlcadjust without the ability to annotate as it's a raster image, not vector line drawing
19:36.48brlcadhave recently discussed that it'd be fairly easy to implement an rtannotate of sorts that could add annotations to an image and render as an overlay (or be an option to rtedge even)
19:38.01brlcadthe main problem is that the .g files are generally modeled using implicit geometric primitives
19:38.16brlcaddxf only supports explicit geometric primitives
19:38.23piermmh I am going to have a look at the file format got from rtedge -o
19:40.01brlcadso you have to either 1) convert to splines, 2) convert to triangles (which is what g-dxf does), or 3) write a research paper ;)
19:41.04pierlooks like rtedge -o produces a binary...
19:41.38brlcadoutput is .pix file format (an image)
19:41.49brlcadpix-png <image.pix > image.png
19:42.15brlcador rtedge -F/dev/Xl to display directly to a window
19:42.38pierok but it would be incredibly difficult to get lines and oder stuf from a pix file
19:42.48brlcadat that point it would
19:42.56brlcadbut inside rtedge, not so difficult
19:43.26piergo on
19:45.04brlcadinside rtedge, it has the model that it's firing rays at
19:45.12pieryou mean I could workout a new routine studying rtedge source and make it to output a vector image file?
19:45.32brlcadyes
19:45.47brlcadit could be spline curves
19:45.51brlcador even something like svg
19:45.55pierlike in the old days commodor assembler games
19:46.32pierprojecting an image on a plane with a given normal vector
19:46.46brlcadfor a 2D dxf, it needs the outline curve of a primitive
19:47.15brlcadyou could also get this by performing 2D projections of the basic primitive shapes, but with CSG operations, this becomes very very non-trivial
19:47.46pieryep
19:48.13piersorry for being slow in understanding
19:48.32brlcadno problem, it's a common issue mainly stemming from implicit vs. explicit
19:50.04brlcadiff the purpose is to get annotations/dimensions by using qcad
19:50.17brlcadthe main issue is "getting the object outlines"
19:51.02pierfor outlime you mean the lines that define the profile of the object?
19:51.07pieroutline
19:51.09brlcadyou could do this by performing a 3D projection of the triangles in g-dxf and computing inside/outside points, stitching together a spline
19:51.37pieryes that was what I wanted to do
19:51.38brlcadyou could also do this in rtedge which has already formed the projection to 2D, requiring you to just stitch together a spline
19:52.03brlcadright, the outlines define the profile
19:52.25brlcadboth/either approach could be made to work
19:53.20brlcadgut feeling is that it'd be a fair bit easier in rtedge, though g-dxf might make more sense in the long run
19:54.12piersay rtedge has a part in wich it makes all the "calculus" so what it is to modify is the piece of code that prepare the output
19:54.48pierin order to make it write a dxf file rather than a pix file
19:55.02brlcadright
19:55.26pierthen I'll switch to rtedge
19:55.40pierand have a look at it
19:55.55brlcadhey, might just give g-dxf a try first
19:56.15brlcadthat does "make more sense" as it is the exporter
19:56.47brlcadit's just not clear to me even exactly how to proceed
19:56.48piernow I am puzzled
19:57.51brlcadyou would not be able to reimport the 2D dxf back into brl-cad when you're done without adding 2D support to dxf-g
19:59.15brlcadi'd say keep going the g-dxf route unless you hit a brick wall and get stuck -- if/when that happens, maybe switch to rtedge instead
19:59.15pierbut that issue doesn't iterest me now (and what's more would reeeeallyyyy beyond me)
19:59.54brlcadmore than happy to support you and help you understand what's going on in g-dxf and/or rtedge
20:00.12brlcadboth are pretty much contained to a single file for their entire main implementation
20:00.40pierLord! I am not a professional programmers and in that case I might turn in a thorn in your side
20:00.46pierprogrammer
20:01.16brlcadwhat we're working on is a means to add the annotations directly in brl-cad
20:01.37brlcadfirst as a raster-only means via something that would be named like rtannotate
20:01.55brlcadlater as a fundamental capability where you can specify annotations and dimensions in the modeler
20:02.22archivistswap later and first please
20:03.08piersounds scary
20:03.18brlcadthe first can be done in just a couple days
20:03.24pier:)
20:03.50brlcadthe latter is a deep change and requires adding a new primitive type, modifying the .g format, and adding modeler interface improvements
20:04.39pierI can't see how to make such thing (the first ex later)
20:05.04pierperhaps
20:05.58brlcadi.e. the latter is brl-cad 8.x material, it breaks compatibility to support it fully
20:05.59pieradding a new method to the shape
20:06.34brlcadthat's a possibility
20:06.39brlcadhmm
20:07.00brlcadthat's not a bad idea
20:07.37brlcadcould add explicit outline projection routines where you query a primitive from a particular direction and it performs the 2D projection to a given plane
20:07.39piera new primitive that could inherit all the legacy from the old ones
20:07.52brlcadthat could be done without breaking anything
20:08.18pierand dimensions to
20:08.21piertoo
20:08.48pierwith hidden and visibility flag
20:08.54brlcadthe actual dimensions and annotations themselves are still not so trivial
20:09.03brlcadthey do require a new primitive
20:09.40brlcadwhat I was talking about is something better than performing projections in g-dxf or trying to extract non-raster connectivity in rtedge
20:10.03brlcadhave to think about it some more
20:10.33brlcadcsg operations might make it impossible still
20:10.41piera primitive has its dimensions
20:10.58pierradious for sph, vertex etc
20:11.32brlcadsure, a sphere is fairly trivial
20:11.59brlcadharder ones would be something like extracting an outline of a dsp (terrain) or even a torus rotated on an angle
20:12.39pieronce they are known one need a method to draw the dimension on the chosen plane
20:13.17brlcadthat was part of the idea of rtannotate
20:17.33pierin the case of a torus you would need a plan view of it in any case if one want to put dimensions on it
20:20.23pierfunny... I can't see the pix image got with the rtedge fresa.g -o fresa.pix
20:22.14brlcadpix is a first quadrant raw image format (old sgi standard)
20:22.27brlcadyou can read them with photoshop, or just use the brl-cad image tools
20:22.40brlcadpix-fb -F/dev/Xl fresa.pix
20:23.09brlcadplus your rtedge doesn't look right: rtedge -o fresa.pix fresa.g some_object
20:24.06pierIt is visible with pix-fb -F/dev/Xl fresa.pix
20:24.15piernot with gimp
20:50.57brlcadyou have to rename it for gimp
20:51.09brlcadrename it to .raw and gimp should be happy
20:51.16brlcadit thinks .pix are something else
20:51.22pierI'll try
20:52.01brlcadit will be flipped, if you open in gimp/photoshop as it is stored as a 1st quadrant image, they assume 4th quadrant
20:52.31pierget an error
20:53.07brlcadwhat error?
20:53.18pierunknown file type
20:53.19brlcadthere's no magic to it .. it's just a plain raw image :)
20:53.40brlcadah, I think you have to tell gimp that it's raw
20:53.58brlcadthere's a drop-down iirc
20:54.03pieras a matter of fact I fancied that renaming would have been useless
20:54.21brlcadphotoshop insists it be named .raw
20:55.18pierxv doesn't recognise it as well
20:55.31pierneither image magic
20:55.38brlcadheh, they will/can
20:55.44pierweird
20:55.52brlcadbut you really have to go throught their means to specify it as raw
20:55.55pieris my pc haunted?
20:55.56brlcadwhich is not a common format
20:56.06brlcadso it's usually a special option/selection
20:56.18brlcadregardless.. if you want to see it, convert it to a different format
20:56.19pierI'll open the gimp again
20:56.23brlcadpix-[tab][tab]
20:56.48brlcadpix-png being the most generally useful
20:57.23brlcadpix-ppm useful for coding, latter versions of xv and gimp read it
21:08.49pier....... have to kill mged
21:09.04pierit gets stuck after giving
21:09.27pierrtedge -o fresa.pix fresa.g telaio.r
21:10.45pierbut not after
21:10.48pierrtedge -o fresa.pix fresa.g
21:11.27pierand
21:11.32pierpix-png fresa.pix  
21:11.59piergives a ot of rubbish on the screen and no png file
21:17.25``Erikpix-png fresa.pix > fresa.png
21:18.03``Erikrtfm o.O :)
21:19.28pierok
21:20.58piernice one!
21:21.31piereven though the fresa (router) came with a foot cut into two parts
21:27.12brlcadoh, rtedge inside of mged is different than outside, I gave syntax for outside mged
21:27.24brlcadinside mged, you don't need to specify the geometry or the .g
21:27.30brlcadit uses what's currently displayed
21:29.53brlcadthat "rubbish" is the png file data ;)  so you have to redirect it
21:30.23brlcadthe command should have a check added to make sure output isn't a terminal like the other converters do, someone must have missed it
21:31.23pierok it works
21:31.44CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: pix-png should make sure output is not to a terminal
21:32.39pierbut does not accept -w -n parameter
21:32.48brlcadwhat doesn't?
21:33.24pier~/brlcad/bin$ pix-png -w 1024 -n 768 fresa.pix > fresa.png
21:33.25pierpix-png: Short read
21:33.41brlcadshort read, fresa.pix isn't 1024x768 apparently
21:33.53brlcaddefault is 512x512
21:34.00pierok
21:34.03brlcadyou have to specify 1024x768 when you render
21:34.18pierok ok
21:35.00brlcadrtedge -w 1024 -n 768 -V1024,768 -o ...
21:36.47piergas
21:36.52pierok
21:37.47brlcad?
21:38.02pieras I am going to bed would you kindly address me to the source of rtedge to ease my sleep :)
21:38.13pierI got lost in
21:38.46pierbrlcad-7.6.6.src.tar.gz/brlcad-7.6.6/src/rt
21:39.43pierrtedge -w 1024 -n 768 -V1024,768 -o ... Was perfect
21:42.00brlcadif you were still here, I would have said viewedge.c
21:42.03*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
21:42.06brlcadheh
21:42.13brlcadviewedge.c
21:43.03brlcadall the raytracers basically just provide implementation for a set of callbacks
21:43.30brlcadview.c is rt's, viewedge.c is rtedge's, vieweight.c is rtweights's etc etc
21:43.56pierok .. found
21:44.11brlcadmain.c and opt.c and most of the rest of files are common to all of them
21:44.35brlcadrtsimple.c and rtexample.c give a tutorial on how they all work
21:44.47brlcadwith a relatively simple raytracer that just fires one ray
21:59.58piergoing to have a printout of rtexample.c and study it. May I be back with questions? Hope not though!
22:02.53brlcadsure sure
22:03.05brlcadit should compile outright, it's part of the build actually
22:03.23brlcadviewedge.c is just the callbacks that are in rtexample.c
22:03.42brlcadrtexample is a full program example
22:04.01pieryes I see
22:04.47pierWould gcc compile it?
22:04.50brlcadsure
22:05.16pier....... an example perhaps...
22:05.54brlcad[morrison@hole (Thu Dec 22 17:05:29) ~/brlcad/src/rt]$ gcc -L/usr/brlcad/lib -I/usr/brlcad/include -I/usr/brlcad/include/brlcad rtexample.c -o rtexample -lbu -lrt
22:05.56brlcad[morrison@hole (Thu Dec 22 17:05:42) ~/brlcad/src/rt]$ ./rtexample
22:05.59brlcadUsage:  rtexample model.g objects...
22:07.44pierThanks a lot to you all. A merry Christmas. Good night!
22:08.15brlcadsame to you
22:09.53*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
22:12.35*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051223

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051223

00:22.13*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable065.3-83-70.mc.videotron.ca)
01:01.17``ErikO.o
01:25.56``Erikhrm
04:11.05TwingyMySQL Beats Commercial Databases in Labs Test
04:20.10``Erikyet psql still whups mysql
04:20.12``Erik:-D
04:28.22*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable065.3-83-70.mc.videotron.ca)
04:36.38*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-70-17-195-44.balt.east.verizon.net)
04:36.51pra5adProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
04:36.51pra5ad[Switching to Thread -1223330080 (LWP 7699)]
04:36.51pra5ad0xb7b87e09 in __gnu_cxx::__exchange_and_add () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
04:36.54pra5ad... =(
04:39.28learnereh, that's not very informative
04:39.49pra5ad(gdb) where
04:39.49pra5ad#0  0xb7ba4e09 in __gnu_cxx::__exchange_and_add () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
04:39.49pra5ad#1  0xb7b83d39 in std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >::~basic_string () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
04:39.59pra5ad=((
04:40.02learnerkeep going
04:40.20pra5ad#2  0x0804f733 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbff89424) at GLAMR_mesh.h:55
04:40.22pra5ad<end>
04:40.26learnerthere ya go
04:40.37pra5adthere what
04:40.52learneryou're apparently in some template code in GLAMR_mesh that isn't right
04:41.09pra5adno templates
04:41.27learnerthen what's line 55?
04:41.38learnermaybe inlined code
04:41.44learneror class code in the header
04:42.04pra5adit's an empty decotr
04:42.06pra5adheh
04:43.10learneris there a std::string in that class's data?
04:43.18pra5adyes
04:43.22learneror a pointer to one
04:43.27pra5adnot pointer
04:43.45learnerclass have a virtual base?
04:44.10pra5adno
04:45.12pra5adtime to trace the prog line by line
04:45.15learnerif there's no #3, smells like stack corruption
04:46.23learnerprogram should be in main() somewhere ultimately unless you're just starting up or quitting and have a problem with some static data initializer
04:47.53pra5adthat was after an exception
04:48.02pra5adobjects were being cleaned up
04:48.15pra5adseems i have issues with my data structs
04:48.15learnerahh
05:03.32pra5adoh wow
05:03.54pra5adfunction has ret val of (model*)
05:03.59pra5adbut body wasn't returning at all
05:04.02pra5adand g++ didnt complain
05:04.05pra5adyikes
05:06.15pra5adoops, twas a warning that was lost in the compiler output
05:06.15pra5ad=)
05:15.05learnereasy to avoid those in the future, add -pedantic -ansi -Werror
05:16.39pra5adrighto
05:17.26pra5addoes -Wall include -Werror ?
05:17.44brlcadno
05:17.49brlcadbut use Wall too
05:18.22pra5adah 'make all warnings into errors'
05:18.43brlcadyyyep
05:19.06brlcadshouldn't have warnings accumulate for new code
05:19.24pra5ad/usr/include/mysql/mysql.h:114: error: ISO C++ does not support ‘long long’
05:19.24pra5admake[1]: *** [glamr.o] Error 1
05:19.25pra5adlol
05:20.16brlcadadd a -std=c99
05:20.49brlcadstill errors?
05:21.14pra5adcc1plus: warning: command line option "-std=c99" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++
05:21.41brlcadah
05:21.56brlcadthen perhaps -DNO_CLIENT_LONG_LONG
05:25.45pra5adworks
05:25.47pra5adtnx
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05:30.12brlcadif you run into it on a different system header, just add -Wno-long-long
05:33.36pra5adk
05:34.43pra5adeffectively doubled my fps with these new changes
05:34.49pra5adstyker at 2fps!
05:34.52pra5adwoo woo =)
14:08.38*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.59)
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18:29.31pra5ad2brlcad
18:39.02brlcad~ask
18:39.03ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. Remember, we're all volunteers. Please don't /msg people without permission. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
18:53.42pra5ad2my singleton has a cpl of std::string members. i know the ctor is called, but when i try read/write to said strings, i get a seg fault
18:54.22pra5ad2do i need some special syntax to init the strings?
19:02.03brlcadheh
19:05.36pra5ad2gdb is of no help
19:05.47pra5ad2although i have a hunch that the string ctors arent called
19:05.51pra5ad2dunno why
19:05.53brlcadso, you're not using my relatively simple singleton interface that has all those issues worked out and you want me to help you with your singleton
19:06.04brlcadlet me think about that one somme
19:06.39pra5ad2it doesnt break on singletongs w/ non stl member :\
19:06.45pra5ad2singletons*
19:07.17pra5ad2hell, it worked yesterday
19:07.32pra5ad2ill rip out the code changes
19:07.40pra5ad2sigh..
19:24.25pra5ad2its certainly not the singleton
19:25.08pra5ad2hrm
19:25.11pra5ad2create a new object and its the same error
19:35.26pra5ad2#0  0x00568641 in __gnu_cxx::__exchange_and_add () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6#1  0x0805108a in ~GLAMR_DatabaseDIVA (this=0xbfe46d40) at /usr/lib/gcc/i386-redhat-linux/3.4.4/../../../../include/c++/3.4.4/bits/basic_string.h:217#2  0x0804e7fe in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfe47214) at /usr/lib/gcc/i386-redhat-linux/3.4.4/../../../../include/c++/3.4.4/ext/new_allocator.h:69
20:13.52pra5ad2damn where's tegtmeyer when u need him
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21:26.59CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/ (954 files in 130 dirs): Merge of bobWinPort
21:31.17brlcadwoah
21:36.04archivist_3just a few
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22:03.12brlcadjust a few
23:34.12``Erik*yawn*
23:34.39``Erikbob merged to.. head? or did he mfc our stuff?
23:35.08pra5adcvs get tail
23:37.05pra5addragon warrior xiii, radiata stories, xenosaga ii and ffxii demo
23:37.13pra5adthat should last me 4 days
23:37.58pra5ads/warrior/quest/
23:40.35pra5admarch is gonna be painful :(
23:40.51pra5adgrandia iii, suikoden v, elder scrolls iv, ffxii full
23:48.57``Erikheh
23:59.03*** join/#brlcad hapoteh (n=hapoteh@yossman.net)
23:59.38hapotehgood evening folks.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051224

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051224

00:01.00hapotehI was expecting to see a lot more people on here to be honest.
00:01.05hapotehthis software looks absolutely amazing.
00:15.18learnerheh
00:15.22``Erikmost of the developers and users don't irc, as it's been in development for over 25 yrs
00:15.53learnerthe irc channel is a relatively new phenomenon for burly cad
00:16.08``Erikheh
00:16.54``Erikyou heard that at a conf?
00:17.53learneri've heard that several times in various places :)
00:18.04learnerbrill cad
00:18.29learnerbrall
00:18.33learnerburl
00:25.45``Erikheh
00:25.51``Erikxmas shopping?
00:25.56``Erik<-- looks at the calendar
00:26.17learneryeah, just about time to get started
00:26.31``Erikwell, I guess we're all allowed to be fucking retarded once in a while :D
00:26.42learnerheh
01:29.40Twingyhrm
01:30.34TwingyI modified the freebsd driver to get my card to show up in ifconfig now
01:30.51Twingyexcept I need to modify the control register values to pick up the MAC address now
01:31.59Twingyworking on freebsd drivers is alot like laying tile, time consuming
01:58.23``Erikheh, indeed
01:58.39``Erikany driver writing tends to burn time like mad
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02:44.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (g-iges-vers_win.c iges-g-vers_win.c): This was missed during the merge because the iges directory was moved.
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05:06.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (17 files in 17 dirs): Update the project settings (release only)
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14:53.51pra5adbrrrrlcad
15:53.27``Erik*yawn*
19:29.18``ErikI thought you were working off of 6 already
19:33.33Twingy6 stable
19:34.01Twingyhere, read up
19:34.17Twingyhttp://damien.bergamini.free.fr/ral/forum/read.php?f=1&i=193&t=193#reply_193
20:06.49``Erikhrmmmmmmmm
20:07.01``Erikloan me two cards next week, I'll make it work... 3 if you want
20:32.53Twingywhat do you need two for?
20:43.35``Erikif the mac address doesn't map easily, there's gotta be some mapping function...
20:43.50``Erikunlike our coworkers, i'm uncomfortable generating a function from a single data point
21:12.51Twingyheh
21:12.55TwingyI considered popping another card in
21:13.50Twingybut all the control registers are pushing back 0's except there's no data in the control registers which looks like it could generate a valid mac address since it has to begin with 00:06:F4
21:14.28Twingyand there is no way to permute the data I "did" get from the control registers to generate atleast that much
21:21.12MaloeranShouldn't you two take a break on christmas? :)
21:21.32TwingyI am, by not tiling
21:21.45Twingythis way my body can heal
21:21.48MaloeranEheh, good good
21:22.00Twingyall I've got left is half the laundry room
21:22.11Twingyput 14 down last night
21:22.49TwingyI found a $2k kitchen table and corner unit I really like yesterday
21:23.07MaloeranI suppose most of the mess has been... displaced for your family's arrival
21:23.18Twingyoh, it's in like perfect order now
21:23.24Twingymom and I speant last 3 days cleaning
21:23.44Twingywent on a shopping spree for cleaning products and other things to spiff the place up
21:23.54Twingythink I speant about $1k on ikea, and other random stuff
21:24.02Twingyspeant $700 on the car yesterday
21:24.37Twingyhuge difference since you were last here
21:25.30Maloeran:) I can only hope so for your family
21:27.35Twingyin two weekends I'll finish up the kitchen when I'm back in town, and finish the unfinished closet in the finish
21:27.41Twingyin the basement
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051225

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051225

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18:49.53TwingyHiiiidy Hooo, merry x-mas from mr. hanky poo
20:06.57``ErikO.o
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051226

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051226

00:23.01*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
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12:23.37mikelohi
12:23.44mikelois this sw 3d?
12:41.07pierHi, yes it is
12:48.08mikelook
12:48.12mikelothanx
12:48.21pieryou are wellcome
12:48.30mikelois it easy to install in ubuntu?
12:49.01pieryou get bynaries so it wouldn't be all that hard
12:49.19pierregardless your distro
12:50.35mikelook
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14:14.26mikelohi i downloaded brlcad how do i install it?
14:29.19*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable065.3-83-70.mc.videotron.ca)
15:37.27``Erikwhich distribution did you download? an rpm? the source tarball? something else?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051227

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051227

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04:54.30pra5adhah
04:54.40pra5adfinished radiata stories
04:54.57pra5adjust in time
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10:11.18clock_hello
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14:51.26brlcadhowdy
14:54.35docelichowdy !
15:01.49clock_hi
15:03.32joevalle1fieldgood afternoon
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15:40.10``Erikgrar
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18:13.52*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
18:14.47*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:14.48*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
18:17.28*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:17.29*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
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19:23.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/unix/dltest/Makefile.in: got rid of the other tcl Makefile.in files, might as well get rid of this one too
19:27.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/Makefile.in: don't need Makefile.in files in CVS when there are Makefile.am files
19:30.59clock_hmm brlcad is active :)
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20:22.49``Erik<-- suspects he has spurts of activity, then sets up 'at' or something to slowly commit his stuff so he looks like he's always hard at work o.O
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21:46.50*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
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23:07.12A_Meteoriteyou there, brlcad?
23:44.38brlcadA_Meteorite: yep
23:44.49A_Meteoriteyay
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051228

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051228

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15:10.39tegtmeyeprasad, you awake?
15:44.22``Erikheh
15:45.43brlcadhelps to use folk's nick so the client can highlight
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15:48.21``Erikdepends on the client
15:48.37``Eriksome don't highlight, others let you define a set of highlightable items
15:49.04brlcadsure, there are sucky ones :)
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17:08.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.bat: Added code to set the BRLCAD_DATA environment variable.
17:09.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Added code to set the BRLCAD_DATA environment variable.
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21:15.50brlcadthere were two name servers (2 of 4) listed that shouldn't have been, now all fixed
21:16.34brlcadI added a third name server for reliability/speed and changed the first server to be one in jersey so it should respond faster in maryland
21:17.32brlcadthe three name servers are in jersey, florida, and germany for ns1, ns2, and ns6 respectively
21:25.17``Erikdamn I hate java.
21:54.30MaloeranWho doesn't :)
22:02.26hapotehOddly enough, some people like it ;-]
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22:36.48cad791hello. i'm new to brlcad. has anyone installed it on freebsd?
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22:37.29``Erikes, there's a port, ports/cad/brlcad
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22:37.40``Erikheh
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22:40.33``Eriksomeone seems to be having issues o.O
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22:48.07cad753lost my connection. i run fbsd4.11-stabel, but the brlcad port is broken. downloaded it via CVS, but i'm getting an error when i do make, i wonder if it has something to do with the fact that i;m using libtool15 instead od libtool14
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22:54.39brlcadhmm
22:55.50brlcadissues indeed
22:55.58brlcadseems to have given up
22:58.38``Erikheh, mebbe he should upgrade, 'stable' is 6.0 now
22:59.01``Erik4 is 'legacy' and should've had support dropped many moons ago
22:59.05brlcadthat's your excuse for anything that breaks? :)
22:59.44brlcadcurious what his actual error is, if it's anything valid
23:01.06brlcadwould it be unheard of to have a ports package that actually pulled sources from cvs?
23:02.43``Eriknot unheard of, but greatly frowned upon
23:03.05brlcadi was thinking a separate ports package
23:03.10brlcadbrlcad-cvs or something
23:03.26brlcador make cvs, etc
23:03.32``Eriksince it throws the pr system out of whack, when the port maintainers can't make their system identical to reproduce problems
23:03.45``Erikwhy? I thought monthly releases was good and brisk
23:03.56brlcadthey is
23:04.13brlcadjust for working out issues in the meantime
23:04.39``Erikthe minute a new file is added, or installed files name changes (like a lib version bump), or anything, the port is immediately damaged and starts leaving crap around or failing on uninstall, which gets it marked broken
23:04.40brlcadplus bsd port build issues could be sorted out before a release is made
23:05.39``Erikgimme a candidate tarball a couple days before release, and maybe a diff of installed files from the last release, I'll make it work :D
23:05.43brlcadmm, so then not as a separate port package
23:05.55brlcad7.6.6 is posted
23:06.09``Erikif it's just to smooth out 4, a good chunk of ports are already broken for it...
23:06.18``Erikoh? hrm, you need to do the freshmeat release thingy, dude
23:06.19``Erik:D
23:06.34``Erikso I can get my 'new software' reminder email
23:06.36brlcadyeah, freshmeat, mailing list, sf news, linux cad, ...
23:06.50brlcadplanned on doing that tonight
23:07.21``Erikfuck, their anoncvs is still busted
23:07.35brlcadsf.net?
23:07.38``Erikfbsd
23:07.41brlcadahh
23:07.56brlcadgonna say
23:07.57``ErikI like to do a cvs diff for the send-pr patch
23:08.04brlcadbrl-cad's head is busted anyways
23:08.13``Erikheh, I don't need anoncvs for that
23:08.17brlcadthat too
23:08.20``Erikquit breaking it
23:08.30brlcadnot me
23:08.32brlcadthis time
23:08.35``Eriko.O
23:08.43``Erikbob?
23:08.44brlcadmassive merge of the windows port
23:08.50``Erikahhh
23:08.54``Erikheh
23:08.59brlcadmainly petty build issues
23:09.02brlcadbut still broken
23:09.10``Eriklets go kick bob in the shins
23:09.13brlcadlinux should be good
23:09.19``Erikand threaten to revoke his bit
23:09.20brlcadhe tested windows and linux
23:09.30brlcadall he has access to
23:09.50``Erikat least he did linux
23:10.05``Erikhe doesn't have accounts on our non-lame machines?
23:11.51brlcadnope
23:12.20``Erikhm, pedro sent me an email with some stuff, um, about trying to get patches to itcl/itk so we don't have to build our own, or something
23:13.13``Erikhe also wanted sdl added to the dependency list, heh
23:14.28brlcadsdl? heck no
23:14.45brlcadthat shizzle is optional
23:15.32brlcadpedro probably meant the tk mods
23:15.35``Erikheh, and only justins stuff uses it
23:15.43brlcadthat's why it's optional
23:15.51brlcadif more used it, it'd get snarfed in
23:16.14brlcadI did add a --diable-everything option that you should be able to put to good use on fbsd
23:16.41brlcadthat disables compilation of everything in src/other that may or may not be installed
23:17.32``Eriktk has modifications for the bezier patch still?
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23:20.34``Erikthat thing is fast. damn.
23:20.59``Erikhm, fPIC breakage
23:27.39``Erikwhy is librtms -static?
23:28.50rricardo23hello everyone! newbie to irc and to brlcad..:-)...been trying to install it on freebsd 4.11 stable, but no luck so far. the port is broken so I downloaded it with anonymousCVS. after I do the 'make' and error pops up. don't know excatly what it means but was wondering if having libtool15 could be the cause. according to the README file, is recommended to have libtool14 instead...could this be the reason of the error?
23:29.23``Erikprobably not, I use libtool15
23:30.06``Erikfbsd4 is antiquated legacy... I don't have one around to test on :) 5 and later should work, 6.0 is 'stable'
23:32.47rricardo23Thanks Erik. Do you know if the port is working in 5.x or 6.0? I would gladly upgrade my system.
23:33.07``Erik5, 6, and 7
23:33.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am:
23:33.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: libtool on fbsd/amd64 seems to not use fPIC on this, causing breakage due
23:33.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: to non-relocatable code in libmultispectral. This seems to fix it, and
23:33.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: shouldn't damage other platforms.
23:33.25``ErikI'm working on an update to the port right now
23:33.51``Erikif you decide to upgrade, perhaps they'll commit the update before your finish your world and port grind :)
23:34.15``Erikor you can tell me the exact errors and we can see about making it work on 4
23:35.47rricardo23i would have to run it again, and save the output to be able to send it. but if Id be more than happy to upgrade to 6.0..:-)
23:37.20``Erik*shrug* it's up to you, mebbe some day I'll set up an emulator with 4 on a disk image, heh
23:48.29``Eriksean, Elapsed compilation time: 4 minutes, 26 seconds
23:49.37``Eriknot quite as fast as the altix, but fairly close
23:54.46brlcadnot bad
23:55.24brlcadsee if a make fast is any faster
23:55.48brlcadthat should link in parallel too
23:55.59brlcadmake fast -jwhatever
23:57.15*** join/#brlcad rricardo23 (n=ricardo@adsl-11-158-24.mia.bellsouth.net)
23:58.00brlcadrricardo23: what's the 4.x error?
23:58.14rricardo23i'll type it in a minute..:-)
23:58.36brlcadoh, and anonymous cvs isn't the greatest.. we just had a major merge of our windows port a couple days ago
23:58.42brlcadshould cvs update -r rel-7-6-6
23:58.51brlcadshould cvs update -r rel-7-6-6 -dP
23:59.22brlcads/anonymous cvs/anonymous cvs HEAD/
23:59.52rricardo23what's the entire command for that??
23:59.55brlcadand where exactly did you read that libtool14 was preferred?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051229

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051229

00:00.05brlcadcvs update -r rel-7-6-6 -dP
00:00.07rricardo23in the README file
00:01.00rricardo23basically the error is
00:01.18brlcaddanka
00:02.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: remove the outdated warning about libtool 1.5 since autogen.sh works around the problem now
00:04.01rricardo23how do i remove it?
00:04.13brlcadremove what?
00:04.25brlcadyou didn't paste the error
00:04.57brlcad~pastebin
00:04.59ibotmethinks pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca
00:06.39rricardo23the error says...'../usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so: undefined refrence to pthread_mutex_unlock...also mutex_lock, and mutex_init...'
00:06.55brlcadhmm
00:07.05brlcadgood ol' bsd threading libs
00:07.05``Erikmeh, that means -pthread isn't being used
00:07.27brlcadrricardo23: what did configure say about -pthread?
00:08.15rricardo23the configure just went fine...
00:08.23brlcadi mean what were the test lines
00:08.25brlcadsomething like:
00:08.26brlcadchecking for pthread_create in -lc_r... no
00:08.26brlcadchecking for thr_create in -lthread... no
00:08.26brlcadchecking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes
00:08.44brlcadrun it again, watch for section 3
00:08.44rricardo23i'll do it again...:-(
00:08.46brlcadchecking ... l i b r a r i e s ... (3 of 9)
00:08.51``Erik(bsd4 needs -pthread, not -lpthread)
00:09.03``Erikit's not a library per se, it's an ad hoc compiler option :(
00:09.06brlcadyeah, should be one more
00:09.16brlcad-pthread is tested after -lpthread fails
00:11.49rricardo23it says '...checking for pthread_create in -lc_r...(cached) yes
00:12.08brlcadhmm
00:12.33brlcadwell, that sucks
00:12.45``Erikhurrr, libc_r exists on 4, but it still needs -pthread
00:12.48brlcadhack it in as an ldflag
00:12.51rricardo23it does for me...:-(
00:13.03brlcad./configure LDFLAGS=-pthread
00:13.13rricardo23i'll do that...wait
00:13.19brlcadthen make again
00:13.50``Erikit might be a CFLAG
00:15.07rricardo23got a bunch of syntax errors...:-(
00:15.44brlcadexample?
00:16.20rricardo23syntax error before 'uintptr_t'...before 'u_short'...'pid_t'...'*'
00:16.37brlcadusing it as an ldflag is usually sufficient
00:16.50rricardo23...'warning: data definition has no type or storage class...Error code 1
00:16.59brlcadhm.. what test was that?
00:17.12brlcadchecking.. what?
00:17.28``Erikdo CFLAGS=-pthread instead
00:17.38rricardo23i did it
00:17.56rricardo23sorry....:-D
00:18.03rricardo23i'll do that now
00:19.25rricardo23same errors Erik...
00:21.35brlcadwhat test do you first see the errors on?
00:23.52brlcadoh right, c_r means -pthread gets added
00:24.37rricardo23could the install_dir has something to do with it?
00:24.58brlcadnot likely
00:25.14brlcadrerun  your original configure
00:25.27brlcadwhat was your original ./configure ?
00:25.41Twingya light!
00:25.44brlcaddid you use any options?
00:25.50Twingy*happy dance*
00:26.11rricardo23didn't use any options....
00:26.24rricardo23just ./configure...
00:26.29brlcadrricardo23: okay, that's fine
00:26.32brlcadso rerun it
00:26.40brlcadand get back to the libbu error
00:26.46rricardo23without options?
00:26.50brlcadsure
00:26.56rricardo23ok...
00:27.51rricardo23done...no problema!.
00:28.33rricardo23do you want me to run 'make' now?
00:28.34brlcadque bien, ahora: make LDFLAGS=-pthread
00:28.42rricardo23ok...
00:29.24rricardo23same olde errors...:-(
00:29.57rricardo23syntax errors i mean
00:30.23brlcadcan you paste your build log to pastebin.com?
00:30.55brlcadyou paste there, they give you a url -- you provide us the URL
00:31.40rricardo23i'll try that...
00:32.28``Erikpr away, wee.
00:32.35brlcadif you care to provide a system account, I wouldn't mind logging in to fix the build
00:32.41brlcad``Erik: did you try make fast?
00:32.56``Erikno
00:33.03``Erikjust wanted to get the pr out the door
00:33.40``Erikconfiguring a fresh extract
00:35.24rricardo23how the heck I paste it?!....I'm working from CLI
00:35.25``Erikbuilding (tk, itcl/itk, iwidgets, x11, ogl, 64b, -O2)
00:36.13brlcadrricardo23: depends how you've set up  your console :)
00:36.20Twingywoo
00:36.23Twingywireless on freebsd
00:36.32``Erikheh, finally fixed the driver? :D
00:36.45Twingywell, I was scared when I got these cards, cause they had the same vendor string
00:36.49``Erik<-- still thinks you shoulda loaned him a couple cards
00:36.50Twingyso my modified driver is working
00:36.58brlcadrricardo23: just paste it here then if you can (but just the last few lines of the build)
00:37.12TwingyI'll just copy my driver source over to the other boxen as I put the cards in
00:37.28``Eriksend-pr it, dude
00:37.35Twingynever! :)
00:37.48``Erikthen loan me two cards so I can replicate the fix and send it myself
00:38.15Twingyral0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
00:38.15Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.15Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.15Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.15Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.15Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.17Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.19Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.21Twingy<PROTECTED>
00:38.35Twingycool eh?
00:38.51brlcadthe "T-Wing Net"
00:38.52Twingydude, you complain about driving to the booze stoor
00:39.03Twingyhow in the world are you going to drive here
00:39.17``Erikheh, you're supposed to drive here
00:39.19``Erik:D
00:39.21brlcadthat's a valid complaint
00:39.26brlcadyou have to be sober to get more
00:39.56TwingyFreeBSD nitrous.js.cx 7.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT #3: Sat Dec 24 16:40:44 EST 2005     justin@nitrous.js.cx:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/NITROUS  i386
00:40.08Twingygood shit
00:40.15``Erikerm , it finished, but didn't say the time
00:40.22brlcadrricardo23: que haces? :)
00:40.34``Erikmy 7.0 box still has a borked up bootloader
00:40.40brlcaddidn't say the time?? hrm
00:40.50TwingyI think I might drop back to 6 stable
00:40.55``Erikmake clean ; time make -j8 fast
00:41.02rricardo23f...trying to paste it...:-)
00:41.12brlcadahh, jeje
00:41.22``Erikrricardo23: moused running? :)
00:41.22TwingyI got one of them magnetic mount antennas with each of these 3 cards too
00:41.29Twingyjust plops onto the top of the box, love it
00:41.36rricardo23yup
00:41.43``Erikheh, and when you turn on your power series, you lose wifi? :D
00:42.08TwingyI'm thinking about getting a lynksys wireless bridge to have the only wireless powerseries in existence :)
00:42.28``Erikyou might already have the only home power series
00:42.29TwingyAUI -> RJ45 -> Wireless
00:42.52TwingyI need to get that thing bootable again
00:43.11Twingyit's got enough crunch for surfing the web
00:43.27Twingyand spinning shiney 3d things around
00:43.34``ErikBooting... IRIX 5.6
00:43.39Twingy5.3
00:43.44``Erik> AM KRUSHINK WEB, DA
00:43.46``Eriklogin:
00:44.20Twingyok, lemme think
00:44.29Twingyrc.conf
00:44.40TwingyI need to pass a bunch of parameters to ral0
00:45.16``Erikreal    4m28.200s
00:45.23rricardo23...'checking if pthreading works... no' <-- i got this in the output of the ./configure
00:45.30Twingyo.O
00:45.30``Erik2 seconds slower, sean, close enough to say 'no difference'
00:47.16brlcadgood to know
00:47.36rricardo23good you know..:-)
00:56.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
00:56.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: add a check to test whether we ended up with POSIX threading if only primarily
00:56.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: to have the hint in the config.log output. the pthread test was found in gd's
00:56.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: configure.ac and seems a reasonable fairely comprehensive test.
00:56.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: pthread_cleanup_push is reportedly non-functional stub function on solaris;
00:56.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: pthread_create and pthread_join are not necessarily in the same lib on irix
00:56.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: (even though we prefer sproc on irix for performance); pthread_attr_init is
00:57.31brlcadrricardo23: are you running gpm?
00:57.57brlcadif it's running and /dev/mouse is set, you can middle-click to paste a selection
00:58.34brlcador moused
00:58.55rricardo23don't know...i'll check
00:59.15rricardo23no
00:59.29brlcadrun moused
00:59.44rricardo23i'm running moused
01:00.29brlcadhmm
01:00.57brlcadyou have a three-button mouse?
01:00.59brlcador two?
01:01.08rricardo233
01:01.26brlcadhmm, does the mouse cursor move if you move the mouse?
01:01.35brlcadi.e. can you make selections?
01:01.42rricardo23no..:-(
01:02.05rricardo23ource='fb_generic.c' object='libfb_la-fb_generic.lo' libtool=yes  DEPDIR=.deps
01:02.05rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:02.05rricardo23libtool --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include   -
01:02.05rricardo23I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -
01:02.05rricardo23DIF_REMOTE -DIF_AB -DIF_X -DIF_OGL -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c
01:02.06rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:02.08rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:02.10rricardo23include -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -DIF_REMOTE -DIF_AB -DIF_X -DIF_OG
01:02.12rricardo23L -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c fb_generic.c -Wp,-MD,.deps/libfb
01:02.14rricardo23_la-fb_generic.TPlo  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/libfb_la-fb_generic.o
01:02.16rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:02.18rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:02.20rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:02.23rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:02.26rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:02.26rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src.
01:02.28rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:02.30rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad.
01:02.32rricardo23top in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad.
01:02.34rricardo23top in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad.
01:02.36rricardo23:-D
01:02.38rricardo23is that what you meant?...
01:02.41brlcadyeah
01:02.46rricardo23:-D
01:03.01brlcadthough it doesn't say the error :)
01:03.16rricardo23wait
01:03.57brlcadlooks like it was ctrl-c'd or something
01:04.18rricardo23you want thew whole output of the make?
01:04.29rricardo23or the ./configure?
01:04.37brlcadnot the whole output of configure
01:05.01rricardo23make or conf?
01:05.22brlcadoutput of make from right before the errors
01:05.29rricardo23k...
01:05.59rricardo23source='fb_generic.c' object='libfb_la-fb_generic.lo' libtool=yes  DEPDIR=.deps depmode=gcc /usr/local/bin/bash ../../misc/depcomp  /usr/local/bin/bash ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -DIF_REMOTE -DIF_AB -DIF_X -DIF_OGL -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c -o libfb_la-fb_generic.lo `test -f 'fb_gen
01:05.59rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:05.59rricardo23In file included from /usr/include/sys/select.h:40,
01:06.01rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:06.03rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:06.05rricardo23In file included from ../../include/fb.h:40,
01:06.07rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:06.09rricardo23In file included from fb_generic.c:56:
01:06.11rricardo23../../include/fb.h:233: syntax error before `*'
01:06.13rricardo23../../include/fb.h:233: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
01:06.15rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:06.17rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:06.19rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:06.21rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:06.23rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:06.25rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src.
01:06.27rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:06.29rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad.
01:07.03brlcadthat's good
01:07.10rricardo23:-)
01:07.12brlcadcomplaining about fd_set
01:08.08rricardo23workaround?...if there's any...
01:08.38brlcadyeah, hold on a sec
01:08.45rricardo23:-)
01:08.59brlcadgrep -r fd_set /usr/include/*| grep struct
01:09.03brlcadwhat does that output?
01:09.09rricardo23wait..
01:11.58brlcadusually that's in /usr/include/sys/select.h
01:12.12brlcadprobably wants sys/types.h or somesuch
01:12.56brlcadalternatively, if you do a "man select", what are the #include line(s)?
01:13.53rricardo23d... it!...lol
01:14.08brlcad?
01:15.15rricardo23'...#include <sys/types.h>, #include <sys/time.h>, #include <unistd.h>
01:15.50brlcaddoesn't list sys/select.h ?
01:16.31rricardo23no
01:16.36brlcadinteresting
01:16.51brlcadgrep HAVE_SYS_SELECT_H include/brlcad_config.h
01:16.54rricardo23could it be the C-compiler version?
01:17.14brlcadnah, but it is related to the OS version
01:17.27brlcadand C library version
01:18.07rricardo23'...no such file or directory...'
01:18.33brlcader
01:18.55brlcadthe include dir in your brlcad checkout
01:20.26brlcadit's there somewhere
01:22.13rricardo23'...define HAVE_SYS_SELECT_H 1...'
01:22.25brlcadk, that's why
01:22.25rricardo23...#define...
01:22.55rricardo23??
01:23.05brlcadtry: make CPPFLAGS="-UHAVE_SYS_SELECT_H"
01:23.14rricardo23k, wait..:-)
01:23.41brlcadif that doesn't work, will have to comment out a few lines in fb.h
01:24.28rricardo23In file included from /usr/include/sys/select.h:40,
01:24.29rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:24.29rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:24.29rricardo23In file included from ../../include/fb.h:40,
01:24.29rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:24.29rricardo23In file included from fb_generic.c:56:
01:24.31rricardo23../../include/fb.h:233: syntax error before `*'
01:24.34rricardo23../../include/fb.h:233: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
01:24.35rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:24.37rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:24.39rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:24.41rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:24.43rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:24.45rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src.
01:24.45brlcadokay, so it didn't work
01:24.47rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:24.49rricardo23:-(
01:24.55brlcadit's still that problem
01:25.06rricardo23same 'ol...
01:25.11brlcadit's including sys/select.h, which doesn't have fd_set like it's supposed to on fbsd 4
01:25.18brlcadedit include/fb.h
01:25.37brlcadat the top, it says "/* Needed for fd_set */
01:25.48rricardo23where do i find that file? is it under /brlcad??
01:25.57brlcadbefore that line add:
01:26.05brlcadyeah, that's in brlcad/include
01:26.09brlcadin your checkout
01:26.16brlcadadd:
01:26.26brlcad#include <sys/types.h>
01:26.30brlcad#include <sys/time.h>
01:26.36brlcad#include <unistd.h>
01:26.46brlcadthat should do it
01:28.23rricardo23sorry....i have no sys/select under include...:-(
01:28.33brlcadeh?
01:28.40brlcadno no
01:28.49brlcadedit brlcad/include/fb.h
01:28.59brlcadedit that file with a text editor
01:29.09brlcadadd the three #include lines
01:29.14rricardo23ok,ok
01:29.19brlcadbefore the line that says /* Needed for fd_set */
01:31.17rricardo23done
01:31.29brlcadnow 'make
01:31.34rricardo23k...
01:31.54rricardo23source='fb_generic.c' object='libfb_la-fb_generic.lo' libtool=yes  DEPDIR=.deps depmode=gcc /usr/local/bin/bash ../../misc/depcomp  /usr/local/bin/bash ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -DIF_REMOTE -DIF_AB -DIF_X -DIF_OGL -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c -o libfb_la-fb_generic.lo `test -f 'fb_gen
01:31.55rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:31.55rricardo23In file included from /usr/include/sys/types.h:126,
01:31.56rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:31.58rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:32.00rricardo23../../include/machine.h:704: warning: this is the location of the previous definition
01:32.02rricardo23In file included from fb_generic.c:56:
01:32.04rricardo23../../include/fb.h:38: sys.time.h: No such file or directory
01:32.06rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:32.08rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:32.10rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:32.12rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:32.14rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:32.16rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src.
01:32.18rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:32.20rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad.
01:32.23brlcadyou wrote sys.time.h
01:32.29brlcadshould be sys/time.h
01:33.02rricardo23sorry.....syntax error...:-D
01:33.16``Erikahhh
01:34.08rricardo23bunch of syntax errors now...:-(
01:34.16rricardo23In file included from fbserv_obj.c:52:
01:34.17rricardo23In file included from /usr/include/netinet/in.h:493,
01:34.17rricardo23<PROTECTED>
01:34.17rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:34.17rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:34.17rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:34.19rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src/libfb.
01:34.21rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:34.23rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad/src.
01:34.25rricardo23*** Error code 1
01:34.27rricardo23Stop in /usr/home/ricardo/brlcad.
01:34.46``Erikno error listed... all that *** Error code and Stop in stuff is just noise, rricardo, please don't paste it
01:35.13``Erikif we were to tell you a list of commands that would generate a file, do you have anywhere you can put that file, like a website?
01:35.28rricardo23i could mail it
01:35.40brlcadwhat's the line before the "In file included from fbserv_obj.c:52" line?
01:36.15``Eriksean, should we have him send you a `script` output?
01:37.06brlcadcould, though we're making progress
01:37.20``Erikokie, just lookin' for a cleaner quicker way :)
01:37.33brlcadit's past at least three problems so far, not the same ones
01:37.46brlcadquicker would be for me to log on and just fix it :)
01:37.59rricardo23i'm doing a '....make > outout file..' but i don't see that line...sorry, kinda newbie to UNIX too...:-D
01:38.00brlcadundoubtedly a bunch of header/define junk
01:38.12brlcadrricardo23: you'd have to redirect stderr too
01:38.13``Erikyeah, bsd5 shifted a lot of stuff around
01:38.21brlcadmake > output 2>&1
01:38.24``Erikum
01:38.30``Erikdepends on the shell he's running, dude
01:38.35rricardo23bash
01:38.39``Erikokie, then it'll work
01:38.40brlcadnyah nyah
01:38.59brlcadonly crazy people use that tcstuff
01:39.01``Erikno nyahing when a blind assumption isn't wrong, beeyotch :D
01:39.25brlcadit wasn't blind
01:39.26brlcadit was quite educated
01:39.26``Erikfbsd defaults to a reduced ksh variant
01:39.26brlcadeven if a guess
01:39.42``Erikwhich is why I wanna PUNCH RON IN THE HEAD when he writes bash scripts with #!/bin/sh instead of #!/usr/bin/env bash
01:40.28brlcadit's still supposed to be a posix compliant if it's /bin/sh (ksh, bash, sh, lots support)
01:40.34``Erikit is
01:40.37``Erikrons scripts are not
01:40.41brlcadjust fix any bashisms them
01:40.47rricardo23'...make > m1 2>&1...'  ....ambigoues redirect...:-(
01:40.52brlcadhehe
01:40.56brlcadtcsh it is
01:41.00``Erikare you sure you're running bash, rricardo?
01:41.08rricardo23i AM!
01:41.13brlcadit's not bash
01:41.20rricardo23:-(
01:41.26``Erikecho $0
01:41.48``Erikerik@fenris ~$ echo $0
01:41.52``Erik/usr/local/bin/bash
01:43.26rricardo23'...~$ echo $0...' <-- command not found
01:43.36brlcadhehe, beautiful
01:43.50``Erik:o
01:44.28brlcadwhereis echo
01:44.35rricardo23'... :o ...' command not found.....hehe
01:45.09``Erikif /bin isn't in the path... o.O
01:45.36rricardo23'.../bin/echo /usr/share/man/man1/echo.1.gz /usr/src/bin/echo...'
01:45.57brlcad/bin/echo $SHELL
01:46.28``Erik(or just type "bash" and hit enter, then you'll be in bash forizzy)
01:46.46brlcad(unless bash isn't even installed)
01:47.00``Erikthen it'll bitch and whine and be obvious
01:47.08rricardo23'.../bin/echo/ $SHELL...' <--- /usr/local/bin/bash
01:47.27brlcadhmmm
01:47.33``Erikwhat happened to bin/perf.sh ?
01:47.43brlcadi'm quite dubious of that bash
01:47.52brlcadperf.sh went poof
01:47.53rricardo23f.y.i    i'm running it as root (su)
01:48.06``Erikhrmmm, how did you su?
01:48.06brlcadabsorbed into the benchmark proper
01:48.07rricardo23perf.sh went poof
01:48.20``Erikdid you do "su -"?
01:48.25rricardo23just did su and enetred the psswrd
01:48.43``Erikyou're running reduced set posix sh, but your environment variables from your user were carried
01:48.43rricardo23been doing it all as su...:-D
01:48.58``Erikyou might be better off getting it to compile as your mortal user
01:49.15brlcad> file 2>&1 is valid posix, unambiguous
01:49.28rricardo23tryied it, but could CVS from my 'mortal' account
01:49.37``Eriknever worked in the reduced set posix complient mode of /bin/sh for me
01:49.47rricardo23'tried'
01:50.05brlcadrricardo23: how about make >& build.log
01:50.20rricardo23i would try that as well..
01:51.07``Erikthat should work
01:51.22rricardo23brb..
01:54.03rricardo23...rricardo is drinking Guiness...:-)...
01:54.35rricardo23notin' happened with 'make >& buil.log'...:-(
01:54.40brlcadthe only thing I can think regarding that redirection is that it's bash1 or something and being a bastage about where stdout is supposed to go
01:54.40``Erikmeh, left my last bottle at the gf's parents house
01:54.53brlcadlike make 1> build.log 2>&1
01:55.03``Erikrricardo: it'll sit for a long time, then give you a prompt, then you'll have a file caleld buil.log with the output in it
01:55.25``Eriksean, it's bsd's reduced ksh to fit strict posix, he su'd
01:55.36rricardo23sorry brlcad....:-)...i'll tru that too.
01:55.42``Erikand he didn't so something silly like ln -s /usr/local/bin/bash /bin/sh
01:55.43``Erik...
01:55.44brlcadi know, I'm saying that it is part of posix
01:55.52``Erikizzit?
01:56.06brlcadfairly sure
01:56.15``ErikI don't remember ksh and old bsh being able to do it, just bash
01:56.17rricardo23nothing again....
01:56.34brlcadrricardo23: it's not going to output anything, it all goes to the file
01:56.36brlcadcat build.log
01:56.44rricardo23k...
01:56.45brlcadso if you got "nothing", it probably worked
01:57.00brlcadand it was just being a bastage
01:57.44rricardo23syntax errors in that file...again...:-(
01:58.10brlcad[morrison@hole (Wed Dec 28 20:57:33) ~]$ bash --posix
01:58.10brlcad[morrison@hole (Wed Dec 28 20:57:35) ~]$ echo hello > file 2>&1
01:58.10brlcad[morrison@hole (Wed Dec 28 20:57:46) ~]$ echo hello 1> file 2>&1
01:58.10brlcad[morrison@hole (Wed Dec 28 20:57:50) ~]$ cat file
01:58.10brlcadhello
01:58.41brlcadrricardo23: send me the file
01:58.47``Erikcheck it out, I got a sixpack of dogfish head last night
01:58.58rricardo23k....
01:59.01``Erikbrlcad@brlcad.org ?
01:59.14``Erik(or dcc... heh)
01:59.47``ErikI mean, uh, package at package dot org
01:59.58``Erik(you don't have filters?)
02:00.13``ErikI think I automagically throw away 400 a day
02:00.35rricardo23sent...
02:00.40brlcadno sense encouraging it needlessly
02:01.13``Eriktrue
02:01.19rricardo23got it?
02:01.27``ErikI'm tempted to write a revenge script
02:02.11``Erikbut the worm spammers would be innocent victems
02:02.37brlcadrricardo23: not yet
02:04.22rricardo23sent it again...
02:04.23``Erikhow late ya staying tonight, sean?
02:04.48brlcadhopefully all night
02:05.29``Erikdoing a burn to get your hours up?
02:05.46``Erikwhile you're in the office, why don't you... *duck* :)
02:06.08``Erikooh, and we're going to need you work sunday, toooo....
02:06.20brlcadwoo hoo!
02:06.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: finish the sentence
02:06.54``Erikheh, this lumbard moment has been brought to you buy the letters ...
02:07.27``Erikvanna, kick the shit outta this boy
02:07.36rricardo23should have it by now...
02:11.00rricardo23?
02:11.19``Erikhttp://www.comet7.com/archive_page.php?id=4
02:13.42brlcadrricardo23: got it
02:14.22brlcadrricardo23: remove the entire block below /*Needed for fd_set*/ in include/fb.h
02:16.49rricardo23thanks for all you help guys
02:18.46``Eriko.O
02:19.38*** join/#brlcad ricardo (n=ricardo@adsl-11-158-24.mia.bellsouth.net)
02:20.11brlcadmost folks just hang out in irc indefinitely ;)
02:20.43``ErikI've heard rumor of secret horrible commands like "/part" and "/quit", but I've never been brave enough to quest for them
02:20.56brlcadlike leaving an encylopedia next to your desk open
02:21.25brlcadan encylopedia that bickers, is inconsistent, and periodically whaps you over the head with itself
02:21.30``Erikheh
02:21.48``Erikopen http://en.wikipedia.com/wiki, it's almost as horribly addictive as irc :)
02:22.11brlcadnever been too addicted there
02:22.26``ErikI've had fits that last days
02:22.31brlcadedited several pages, but only ones of specific interest
02:22.44ricardoit's as addictive as beer itself...
02:22.46``Eriklike the brlcad page? :)
02:22.50brlcad:)
02:23.03brlcadyou should see how many permutations on the case I registered :)
02:23.14brlcadalmost got them all before I got sidetracked onto something else
02:23.18``Eriksurprised you haven't crunched on arl an apg :)
02:23.20``Erikcase?
02:23.32``ErikI looked at the h istory of the brlcad page and snickered
02:23.39brlcadBrlCAD, BrlCad, BRL-cad etc
02:23.41``Erikyou also did something on the muuss page, iirc?
02:23.46brlcadyeah
02:26.42``Erikwho's the copyright holder for that diagram?
02:27.51``Erikalso; a discrepency
02:28.06``Erikthe first m1 rolled off the assembly line in '78
02:28.13``Erikmike started brlcad on a dare in '79
02:28.29``Erikand it was the first time anyone had seen anything other than a drawing of the new design
02:28.36``Erik...
02:29.48Twingyah, turns out the stock driver works with these cards
02:29.57``Erikso you did something silly?
02:30.03Twingyhuh?
02:30.10Twingythe new cards
02:30.14``Erikoh
02:30.18``Erikloan me the old ones
02:30.22Twingyokie
02:32.41``Erikif I get my fbsd7 box working again, I'll try to get 'em working
02:32.50``Erikyou'll be in on the 3rd?
02:33.29TwingyI'm running on 6 out of the box
02:33.35Twingyafk, doing a fresh 6 install
02:33.37``Erikcool
02:33.55``Erikif I get the fix in 7, it'll probably be "mfc"d
02:33.59``Erikinto 6 and maybe 5
02:43.11brlcad``Erik: what's being called "brl-cad" and what was called the m1 varies
02:44.34``Erik<-- just noted that the text seems to have a discrepency... knows very little of brlcad's history and pretty much nothing of the abrams history
02:44.50brlcadthe first prototype rolled off late 70's
02:44.58brlcadit's not really a discrepancy, just lacking detail
02:45.04``Erikokie
02:45.05``Erikthere ya go
02:45.11``Erikif you know the detail
02:45.17``Erikyou have a DUTY TO SOCIETY
02:45.18``Erik:D *duck*
02:45.23brlcadit's not wrong
02:45.33brlcadeven if you're confused by it :)
02:45.45``Erik<-- easily confused
02:46.03``Erik"my mom says there's a lot of black people in china"
02:46.10brlcadsome other guy added the bulk of that paragraph about the xm1
02:47.18brlcadif you notice.. "first M1 rolled off the assembly line in 1978" .. "the first of these vehicles was delivered .. 1980" .. "XM1 was accepted for full production in February 1981"
02:47.32``Erikheh
02:47.42brlcadso calling that first one the M1 is what could be confusing
02:47.52brlcadit was the M1, albeit really an early early XM1 prototype
02:48.11brlcadwhich is what Mike worked on visualizing
02:48.41brlcadlil ol' jove don't hurt nobody
02:49.07brlcadbleh, I wouldn't
02:49.18brlcadi hate external dependency hell
02:49.35``Erikand, optimally, I'd like libtcl/libtk/itcl/itk/iwidgets to really disappear, giving way to ruby, python, or scheme
02:49.39brlcadi've come to appreciate the brl-cad way over the years
02:49.43brlcadespecially when porting
02:49.57brlcadi don't need to get anything, and everything that thing needs, and everything it needs
02:49.59``Erikbrlcad has been pulled in and kept sane
02:50.11``Erikwhen the approach is left to it's natural form
02:50.16``Erikwe get things like ajem and matrex
02:50.19brlcadit's fine for ports, apt, fink, portage, etc, but not outside that
02:50.48``Erikany reasonably managed package system will cope
02:50.55``Erikand reasonable os has a reasonable package system
02:51.21``Erikeven solaris and aix and redhat variants have some facility to cope
02:51.23brlcadthat's a cop out for just pushing the work onto someone else
02:51.27``Erik:)
02:51.30brlcadthe package is meant to compile anywhere
02:51.38brlcadregardless of the warts of the system it
02:51.39``Erikgiven certain constraints
02:51.42brlcad's going on
02:51.52``Eriklike, say, posix support.
02:51.54brlcadbare minimum constraints
02:52.01brlcadeven that is a real new one
02:52.05``Erikit's not like I can put any of it on my palm
02:52.09brlcadused to just be a shell and a compiler
02:52.18brlcaddidn't need net, didn't need sockets, ..
02:52.35``Erikheh, it's still drawing a line somewhere
02:52.40brlcadactually, you could put it on your palm, why not?
02:52.50brlcadnot the tcl bloat, but that's only a small part
02:52.57``Erikum, no posix support?
02:53.00``Erikno standard C support?
02:53.14``Erikno concept of std{in|out|err} ?
02:53.21brlcadyou can get a C compiler
02:53.27``ErikI have a C compiler for palm
02:53.31``Erikit doesn't have libc
02:53.35``Erik...
02:53.50brlcadthen you're about where the vax was
02:53.54``Erikit's actually a variant of gcc
02:53.59``Erikit doesn't have vax funtions
02:54.05``Erikit doesn't have the concept of a command line
02:54.24``Erikit's more limited than DOS
02:54.49brlcadit could still be made to work, at least the old dm interface
02:54.51``Erikit has a proprietary sdk and only works with that :)
02:55.19``Erikthe only programming I've really done on my palm has been using LispMe
02:55.20``Erikheh
02:55.27``Erikcuz the C is so... alien
02:55.35brlcadmged and rt have certainly run on hardware with less memory and cpu power
02:55.49``Erikin past incarnations, sure
02:55.56``Erikbrb, more vodka...
02:56.00brlcadit's not that far frm past incarnations
02:56.35brlcadit wouldn't compile outright today, I"m sure -- it barely compiles on supposedly posix systems
02:58.30brlcadthere are still plenty of systems that don't have reliable packaging systems or any packaging system at all, or they might have one that can't be used
02:58.57brlcadfor whatever reason (and there are lots of possible reasons)
02:59.06``Erikanyways, i'm an advocate for strong package systems and leveraging their capabilities, if an os doesn't provide solid package management, it's a bad os and should be scrubbed from existance or brough up to par
02:59.26``Erikthat's osX's big weakness
02:59.35``Erikand one of the many suck points of winderz
02:59.36``Erik:)
02:59.36brlcadit's not really difficult to suck in sources and only compile when needed, if there's a decent packaging system, great.  all that's been wasted is a few bits of space.
02:59.40``Erik<-- hops off his soapbox
02:59.52``Erikdude, I've got religion on the issue
02:59.56``Erik...
03:00.12brlcadi can see that
03:00.49brlcadstill not going to alienate 95+% of users just because their packaging system sucks
03:00.51``Erikwe all gotta have some aspect we're an idealist for, right?
03:00.54``Erikhehehe
03:01.02brlcadthere's better reasons than that to alienate them
03:01.04``Erikhow often do you run across a machine without zlib?
03:01.13``Erikor libpng?
03:01.16brlcadheh
03:01.23brlcadmac os doesn't provide a libpng :)
03:01.27``Erikhow many people actually use jove?
03:01.49brlcadthey have their own png part of the system quicktime libs
03:02.17``Erikmy contacts at apples os chunk have fled the company, otherwise, I'd be btiching them up and down right now
03:02.53``Erika couple of 'em seem to have disappeared o.O
03:04.11``Erikso, yeah, vodka, heh
03:04.31``Erikas long as we have disable knobs on stuff that isn't ours, I'll survive
03:04.53brlcadthose knobs aren't going away
03:05.11``Erikthe libtk issue is my current primary concern
03:06.05``Erikbezier can't be implemented in tcl ontop of tk?
03:06.06brlcadthe one bit of code (the sketcher) that uses the tk bezier canvas is being rewritten
03:06.12``Erikokie
03:06.25brlcadheh "in tcl ontop of tk"?
03:06.43brlcadit's a proper canvas
03:06.46brlcadit was done right
03:06.59brlcadjust nobody willing to shovel it through acceptance
03:07.13brlcadTIP process is a pain
03:07.16``Erikuhm, vodka talkin... :D there isn't a generic canvas in tk that you can write bezier curve functionality on top of, instead of implementing a new canvas?
03:07.46brlcadnot really, without actually drawing to the canvas as well
03:07.49brlcadthat'd be nasty
03:08.08brlcadworse than what we have now, slow as balls too
03:08.09``Eriknasty code wise, or user experience (like performance) wise?
03:08.20brlcadcode and performance
03:08.30brlcadyou could make user experience "close" maybe
03:08.45brlcadregardless, don't matter too much if/when the replacement is finished
03:08.57brlcadjason's working on it as a prototype/test
03:09.04``Erikhrm, since it has code fugliness, it might not be worth it no matter the
03:09.05``Erikuh
03:09.08``Erikvodka blank...
03:09.18``Erikheh, use base
03:09.48``Erikgiven jasons 'object broker' and 'expose' efforts in m3, I'm a bit scared of his stuff :(
03:09.52brlcadall your base are belong to vodka?
03:09.58``Erikindeed
03:10.39``Eriktalking shop with him is great, the stuff he puts in the repo ...
03:10.58``Erik(mebbe he was under pressure to over-abstract, I d'no...)
03:11.40``Erikdo ya play any blackjack?
03:12.23brlcadi've lost 4 figs playing, so i don't know if that could be considered playing or not
03:13.01``Erikyesterday, I looked at some "programming exercises", one of them mentioned implementing blackjack... so I did a quick and dirty implementaton of a deck generation func, cutting func, semi-realistic shuffling func, and vegas rules 'hard 17' dealer func
03:13.11``Eriktempted to make a full on blackjack video game
03:13.34``Erik(all that shit I implemented... 44 lines of scheme)
03:13.41brlcadi did that several years ago myself
03:13.50brlcad(after loosing 4 figures)
03:13.53``Erikall of it yesterday, cuz I didn't wanna look at my given task
03:13.56``Erikheh
03:14.12``Erikover how much time?
03:14.13brlcadhad it learn how to play the game and a genetic algorithm to optimize game strategy
03:14.17``Eriknot all in one night, I hope
03:14.26brlcadcouple nights
03:14.37``Erikdamn
03:14.40brlcadit played, and learned
03:14.42``Erik<-- very not a gambler
03:14.49brlcadnot as good as a brute force solution though
03:15.05``Erikjustin claims to have a method for roulette that puts him ahead
03:15.20``Eriksays he's succeeded in atlantic city
03:15.40``ErikI'm just not down with the concept of gambling
03:16.26brlcadi'm down with it if i'm winning
03:16.40``Erikheh, I'm a bit, um, risk adverse
03:16.47``Erikhell, that's why I moved up here
03:17.00``Erik"stable gov't job"
03:17.04brlcadof what? not stopping?
03:17.08brlcadahh
03:17.13brlcadadverse to taking risk, heh
03:18.07``Eriktho I took a mind-numbing risk a bit ago... heh
03:20.40``Erikwee, more vodka
03:40.31``Erik"and getting my snooch pounded every friday night" hehhehehee
03:41.28``Eriksouthpark rocks
03:50.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: avoid including sys/select.h outright since it conflicts on some systems (e.g. fbsd4). would be good to decouple fb's interface from the fd_set struct since it's only used in one place
03:53.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: add support to archer for running without necesssarily being installed yet
05:07.03pra5adhrm
05:12.04pra5ad=(
05:13.32brlcadfoiled
05:15.38pra5adthat's $80 dammit
05:15.55pra5adwait i cant
05:16.00pra5adcos im in pain
05:17.06brlcadmmm.. triceps today
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08:03.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: missing utility.tcl, add maintainercleanfiles and the Makefile.defs include
08:04.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (4 files in 4 dirs): add the maintainercleanfiles sections, an rcs id, and the venerable Makefile.defs for consistency
08:04.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: ws
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08:07.16mobilonehello
08:07.59brlcadhowdy
08:13.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: copy some of the event/alive checking that was added to if_ogl_win32.c for the if_ogl.c interface too.
08:16.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: use the HAVE_NETINET_IN_H header define instead of !_WIN32
08:21.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/Makefile.am: add an automake makefile for the new win32_msvc7 directory so that it will get included in source distributions, traverse through it even
08:22.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add an automake makefile for the new win32_msvc7 directory so that it will get included in source distributions, traverse through it even
08:31.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (47 files in 47 dirs): add the automake templates for all of the studio projects so that they are included in source distributions.
08:35.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: traverse into the win32-msvc7 dir
08:35.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the Makefiles for all of the new win32_msvc7 project dirs
08:45.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:45.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: these need a LOT more detail, but it's something. new Archer modeling and
08:45.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: visualization tool - Bob Parker, Doug Howard; extensive Windows build support
08:45.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: enhancements - Bob Parker. this isn't close to a patch update, 7.7.0 it becomes
08:47.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac include/config_win.h): next release is going to be 7.8.0 given all the major enhancements, so bump revision up to 7.7.0
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09:02.45brlcadhmm
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15:13.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (13 files in 13 dirs): missing the vers_win.c files for making source distributions that will compile on windows
15:16.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (swidgets/.cvsignore sdialogs/.cvsignore): ignore generated tclIndex and pkgIndex.tcl scripts
15:16.58clock_brlcad: hi
15:17.06brlcadhowdy
15:17.18clock_brlcad: yesterday I have first time on snowboard :D
15:17.22clock_"" -> been
15:17.27brlcadexcellent
15:41.53brlcadheh
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20:08.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl: Utilize a slave interpreter for better command/script parsing.
20:20.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the "Compact" file menu item.
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22:16.50pierHi everyone. I just compiled and tested ver 7.6.6. What are the most significant differences with respect to the 7.6.4? Thanks
22:18.46brlcadpier: did you see the NEWS file?
22:19.03piersorry.. not yet
22:19.17pierOK I'll go have a look at it
22:19.18brlcadit should be installed
22:19.38brlcadin /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.6.6/NEWS iirc
22:20.02brlcador here: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/NEWS?rev=14.154&view=auto
22:20.41*** join/#brlcad cad731 (n=c896d0d2@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:21.16brlcadhowdy cad731
22:21.41Twingythere's a bug in the wlan_wep kernel module
22:23.02cad731hey
22:23.10cad731small group
22:23.19cad731what u using brl for?
22:23.47Twingyseaquest is the lamest show ever
22:25.43pierok thanks
22:26.56brlcadcad731: lots of different interests, mostly geared for analysis, solid modeling, and raytracing
22:28.55cad731tried Hammer / Source?  I haven't used them or BRL-CAD.  How are they different?
22:29.05brlcadthere are folks here with other interest too, though -- drafting, machining, CAE, finite element analysis, ..
22:29.19brlcadnever heard of hammer/source
22:30.08cad731its for building geometry in games
22:30.17cad731have a look at "applications of CSG"
22:30.20cad731http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_solid_geometry
22:30.46cad731I'm working in advertising using 3D graphics
22:32.07brlcadahh, heh, there's that interest in BRL-CAD too -- using it to make brl-cad the geometry modeler for bzflag :)
22:32.34cad731bzflag uses it!!!  haha, I played a bit
22:32.45brlcadit's under development
22:32.54brlcadthere's some polish and more bridging needed still
22:33.04brlcadmost bzflag models are still done by hand so far
22:33.49brlcadhehe
22:34.23Twingyhaving a file server that requires nothing more than a power cable rocks
22:34.31cad731need to install linux, try out BRL
22:34.41cad731anyone using cygwin and brl?
22:34.58brlcadi've compiled it before under cygwin a couple times
22:35.02brlcada few users have too
22:36.04cad731am I better off getting linux going
22:36.14brlcadprobably
22:36.30brlcadat least that's what I'd recommend for reasons completely unrelated to brl-cad :)
22:37.29cad731maybe I can wait until I get a laptop
22:37.38cad731anyone messing with the source code?
22:38.01cad731I'm interested in the CSG core
22:38.01pierI just got it compiled
22:38.30pierwent smooth
22:39.28cad731it's all C
22:40.08cad731hehe
22:41.10cad731I want to see the geometry editor, how primitives are arranged and grouped
22:41.41cad731the screenshots aren't very informative
22:41.54brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg
22:41.59cad73119 developers.. are you one?
22:42.37brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
22:42.54cad731ahhhhh good stuff!
22:42.55brlcadyes, i'm the lead architect
22:45.01cad731nice work!
22:48.40cad731the primitives don't blend together like metaballs?
22:53.17pierbrlcad, is it possible to get a tapered wing kind of solid? I didn't get it from man
22:54.50brlcadcad731: no, but it wouldn't be too hard to implement that if someone tried
22:56.56brlcadfeature operations are generally implemented by hand via CSG explicitly right now, blending, fillets, chamfers, etc
22:57.42cad731hmm, want to see it in action
22:58.34brlcadtheres a rather extensive tutorial series on the website, including a comprehensive one on mged, the solid modeler
22:59.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: windows branch is merged
23:03.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: before next release: test intel compiler performance on Altix, add performance options
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23:09.10cad731familiar with Bill Wyvill's work on soft objects?
23:12.29cad731can I see how primitives are implemented?  there's a lot of source!
23:19.45brlcadyep
23:19.48brlcadand yep
23:20.36brlcadlook at src/librt/g_*.c
23:20.48brlcadeach one is a different primitive
23:21.39brlcadg_ell.c is a relatively simple one to start with, ellipsoids
23:21.51cad731far out
23:23.01cad731blending is always an add-on feature
23:23.10brlcadmaking a new primitive is basically implementing the new g_whatever.c file, adding the primitive to a few tables, and providing a type-in interface for creating them
23:23.36brlcadblending itself could be implemented as a "primitive" in brl-cad methodology
23:23.55brlcador as an operation akin to CSG operations
23:24.18cad731my spheres/ellipsoids start using field functions.. soft object/metaball/blobby/inverse radius
23:24.29brlcadexample, the "extrude" primitive takes a sketch and sweeps it linearly along a vector
23:25.21brlcadg_metaball.c where you define a set of points/radius, or maybe even any arbitrary primitive
23:25.22cad731ahhhh.. u know the movie "Dark City" ???
23:25.39cad731think someone here wants that kind of effect, the stretching buildings
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23:45.45brlcadheh, igotbsd :)
23:45.58igotbsdhi everyone. hi brlcad, did you ever got the chance to look into my build.log file...<-- used to be rricardo on fbsd4.11
23:46.00brlcadcad731: I think I saw it several years ago, don't really remember it
23:46.32igotbsd:-)...yes i got it
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051230

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051230

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00:18.30``Erikgrar, vodka yummy
00:18.39``Erikpedro needs to settle the mcfuck down
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00:21.56brlcad``Erik: ?
00:24.28brlcadthe bug report or something else?
00:25.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/reid.tcl:
00:25.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: add a new reid and get_regions command to mged. reid assigns region IDs to all
00:25.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: regions under some assembly starting at some given region ID number.
00:25.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: get_regions is used by reid to obtain the names of regions under a given
00:25.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: combination.
00:26.34``ErikI got like 4 emails today from his bug comments
00:26.51brlcadheh
00:27.08``Erika couple of them after I'd been working on the issue, and I don't recall seeing a direct mail from him, mebbe it got eaten by a faulty spam blocker or I skimmed over it assuming it wasn't for me :)
00:30.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/remat.tcl: add a remat command to mged. remat assigns material IDs to all regions under some assembly to some given material ID number
00:33.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: add help data for reid, get_regions, and remat
00:36.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: add reid.tcl and remat.tcl, re-add the mysteriously commented pkgIndex.tcl
00:36.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (raypick.tcl solclick.tcl): add the script name to the error message when searching for the commands the script uses
00:37.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (e_id.tcl openw.tcl): ws
00:45.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: reid mged command, recursively assign region IDs; remat mged command, recursively assign a material ID; get_regions mged command, list assembly regions
00:50.20``Erikbeefaroni
00:50.26``Erikwoops
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04:16.57*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
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08:49.55*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
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13:58.20``Erik_blargh
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21:11.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: added standard legalese file header, converted to bu_getopt for portability, increased max title length stored
21:12.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: quantitative analysis instead of quality assurance
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21:35.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: misc/win32-msvc7/Makefile listed twice
22:52.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtarea.1: credit/blame me since rtarea was almost entirely rewritten when adding presented/exposed areas
23:35.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make tcl, itcl, iwidgets and the new blt and tkimg packages all default to 'auto' for determining whether to use/install them; fix the aliases for the two new packages and put their result output in the right place.
23:46.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: consistent case on BLT and tkImg when printing the name of the package, order them after iwidgets for each section.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051231

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20051231

00:17.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
00:17.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: rename --enable-everything to --enable-almost-everything just to keep things
00:17.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: more truthful, yet keep the original as an alias. make jove and the proe-plugin
00:17.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: have a -build by default to be consistent with the other provided packages,
00:17.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: exand on the proe plugin aliases.
00:50.41pra5adyo unix h4x0rs
00:59.18pra5adi need a one-liner to make dirs for a bunch of zip files based on their filenames (sans extension) and unzip em to said folders
00:59.25pra5ad(w/o using gawk)
01:01.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: don't have access to intel compiler so reprioritize the benchmark testing to a later release.
01:03.34brlcadfor i in *.zip ; do base=`echo $i | sed 's/.zip//'` ; mkdir $base ; unzip $i -d $base ; done
01:05.33pra5adsh?
01:06.21brlcadposix
01:07.32pra5adno work on tcsh
01:07.40brlcadof course not
01:07.46brlcadtcsh isn't posix :P
01:08.10brlcadand no i ain't converting that to tcsh syntax
01:10.01pra5adexcellent =)
01:11.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add the missing g-iges-vers_win.c iges-g-vers_win.c windows vers.c files to the dist
01:11.38brlcadit's the way of the future
01:14.43pra5adhow about mkdir+unzip in another directory?
01:14.51pra5adgiven the files are in the current dir
01:15.03pra5addo i cd out?
01:15.22brlcadhuh?
01:15.31brlcad-d option to unzip
01:15.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/iges/ (g-iges-vers_win.c iges-g-vers_win.c): bogus merge to dead directory. iges moved to src/conv/iges/.
01:16.06pra5ad... helps if i read
01:16.21brlcadif it didn't put them into base, you'll need to shove that into a file and sh it
01:16.50brlcadsince the ` ticks might get eval'd on the interactive
01:18.09pra5adunrar doesnt have a -d option
01:18.15pra5adonly has 'unrar to current dir'
01:18.19brlcadheh
01:18.31brlcadthen those are zip files now are they :)
01:18.41brlcadand you're probably not doing something legal :)
01:18.52pra5adunzip doesnt do rar3
01:18.57pra5adi have unrar (non-free)
01:19.08pra5adhelp me oh unix master
01:19.10brlcadjust add a cd and cd .. before/after an unrar
01:22.53pra5adfilenames have spaces
01:22.55pra5admkdir is borking
01:22.57pra5ad=P
01:23.49brlcad20:16 <@brlcad> if it didn't put them into base, you'll need to shove that into a file and sh it
01:24.52brlcadquote the filenames
01:27.01brlcadecho 'for i in *.zip ; do base="`echo $i | sed \'s/.zip//\'`" ; mkdir "$base" ; cd "$base" ; unrar "$i" ; cd .. ; done" | sh -
01:27.25brlcadoop, small 1-char typo there, but i'll let you figure it out
01:32.56pra5adyay
01:33.50brlcad20:11  * brlcad thinks pra5ad should learn him some posix shell
01:34.38pra5adthe force is not strong in this one
01:35.55``Erik*sneeze*
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01:37.16pra5adtegtmeye, get my email?
01:37.27tegtmeyeno, I'll look now...
01:37.52tegtmeyewait... whats the URL to our webmail?
01:40.12tegtmeyethx, reading now...
01:47.47tegtmeyehmmm....
01:48.06tegtmeyewhat did you think about it?
01:48.21pra5adseemed elegant enough
01:48.54tegtmeye*very* expensive tho
01:49.19tegtmeye+ a reinterpret_cast???
01:49.41pra5adi meant the optional var system
01:49.44pra5adnot the implementation
01:49.51tegtmeyeah...
01:50.29tegtmeyeyou could have done...
01:51.00tegtmeyepair<valid_flag_type,data_type> foo()...
01:51.22tegtmeyeIt basically gives you the same.
01:51.24pra5ad*eyes bleeding*
01:51.25pra5ad=)
01:51.34tegtmeyeexactly...
01:52.05pra5adoptional<optical_interaction>
01:52.32tegtmeyeboth are syntatic sugar for the same thing
01:52.49pra5adpair isnt intuitive
01:52.50pra5adimo
01:52.52pra5ad*shrug*
01:53.31tegtmeyeyea, but there is some precedence though...
01:54.27tegtmeyepair<iterator, bool> std::map::insert(const value_type& x);
01:54.57tegtmeyethe bool is to indicate whether the insert succeeded
01:55.05pra5adoh
01:55.20pra5adbut that's not the behavior u want
01:55.25brlcadif it's the syntax, just typecast the pair
01:55.37brlcadpairs are very useful
01:55.54brlcadpairs of pairs can be fun too
01:56.03brlcadnot that I'd ever do that
01:56.13brlcad*ahem*
01:56.19tegtmeyehave you ever seen the compile-time n-tuple?
01:56.29tegtmeye*that* will make your eyes bleed...
01:56.33brlcad:)
01:56.37brlcadn-tuple? heh no
01:56.43brlcadbut i've seen various tuples
01:57.01brlcadhmm, easily implemented with pairs even
01:57.25tegtmeyeall syntax hell imo
01:58.15tegtmeyeif you replaced the <>'s with ()'s, you'd have LISP:)
01:58.33brlcadcept lisp is more forgiving
01:58.50brlcadwith respect to whitespace at least
01:59.10tegtmeyewill it forgive mefor shooting myself in the head for using it?
01:59.28brlcadi'll forgive you
02:00.33brlcadof course everyone knows it's supposed to be in ML if you want pure functional
02:01.35tegtmeyeI had to use ML for my Logic and Autonoma class...
02:01.41tegtmeyeI hated that class...
02:01.58pra5adautomata?
02:02.37tegtmeyeuh, yea...
02:02.45tegtmeyeI hated English too
02:02.47tegtmeye:)
02:02.58brlcadused ML for a course on writing compilers and programming languages
02:03.30tegtmeyeI had to write compilers the good old fashoned way...
02:03.41tegtmeyelex, yacc, and c
02:03.55pra5adi wrote abel..
02:03.55brlcadgood stuff
02:04.28brlcadthis year actually
02:05.22tegtmeyefor a class or brlcad?
02:05.49brlcadjust on my own initially, was writing a parser for bzflag's world file format
02:06.06brlcadfigured I'd give it a stab, very enlightening/useful
02:06.54brlcadmakes the simple "oh, we'll just add this here" crap that creeps into formats pretty blatently obvious in the grammar
02:07.20brlcadlater used it for writing a point parser for the vulcan scan data in brl-cad
02:08.55tegtmeyeyea, for nothing else, it does force your grammar to be well structured, ie
02:09.33tegtmeyeif your language can't be done in lex/yacc, it is probably screwed up
02:14.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add support to restore the backups when an autogen.sh step aborts
02:16.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: add the rtcheck_vers_win.c rtedge_vers_win.c that were added from the windows port branch so they are included in the dist
02:17.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtexample.c: add more comments on what the file is and its purpose, fix the compile example so that it works on an installed brl-cad too
02:19.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/common.h:
02:19.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: do not include our config.h header in common.h if common has been installed (our
02:19.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: public header files shouldn't be using config defines anyways). this will
02:19.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: undoubtedly require more testing, but it makes it such that 3rd party developers
02:19.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: don't necessarily need to include /usr/brlcad/include or use -DHAVE_CONFIG_H to
02:19.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: get the header to simply work
02:25.35pra5addood
02:25.46pra5adtris feel like calves from three weeks ago
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04:00.57Twingyyou want calves? do some grout
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20:30.58clock_happy new year
21:04.14``ErikO.o
22:09.16pierhappy 2006 to everyone!
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.